Logs on 2020-09-18 (freenode/#haskell)
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| 00:50:13 | <josh> | anyone know if there is a Stack equivalent of "cabal install --lib"? I need to build a shared library, but building with Stack gets me out of dependency hell |
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| 00:56:12 | <sclv> | josh: not really. the dependencies are precisely what you need to worry about with shared stuff |
| 00:56:30 | <sclv> | if you're in trouble with them, you can always clean your env file and start fresh with a new one that you simultaneously install all the libs into you want |
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| 00:56:34 | <sclv> | or use one of the env management tools |
| 00:56:49 | <sclv> | why does it need to be shared anyway? |
| 00:57:08 | <josh> | so I can call it via JNI |
| 00:57:32 | <sclv> | oh, yeah fair dos! |
| 00:57:46 | <josh> | yes, for now I have had success just deleting ~/.cabal between builds, but was thinking there must be a better way |
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| 00:58:00 | <sclv> | you don't need to delete the whole ~/.cabal thing |
| 00:58:06 | <sclv> | just locate and clean out the ghc environment file |
| 00:58:23 | <sclv> | also you can specify any old env file you want, instead of the main one |
| 00:59:58 | <josh> | ~/.cabal/store/ghc-xxx? |
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| 01:00:49 | <sclv> | josh: https://ghc.gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/doc/users_guide/packages.html#the-ghc-package-path-environment-variable |
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| 01:01:32 | <sclv> | usually $HOME/.ghc/arch-os-version/environments/[name] |
| 01:01:35 | <josh> | reading/learning; thanks |
| 01:01:37 | <sclv> | where [name] by default is `default` |
| 01:01:55 | <sclv> | installing the with --lib puts the package into the store and _also_ modifies that env file |
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| 01:02:05 | <sclv> | you can tell cabal to use a different env file and tell ghc to use that |
| 01:02:11 | <sclv> | or just clean that env file regularly |
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| 01:03:25 | <josh> | ah, great. That seems like a good way to keep my JNI build and "ordinary" build separate |
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| 03:10:29 | <beka> | is there a way to parse haskell-style types with expression parsers? |
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| 03:11:24 | <perdent> | Anyone here wanting to code a perl CGI vulnerability for a 'hacking' CTF, I will pay money, Query me with more info if interested |
| 03:13:59 | <perdent> | code a haskell vulnerability* |
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| 04:07:52 | <jchia> | aeson/lens question: How can I make sure a Value that is an Object contains an empty Object "a.b.c", a la "mkdir -p"? E.g. if the input is {"x": 1}, the output should be {"a": {"b": {"c": {}}}, "x": 1}. |
| 04:08:14 | <jchia> | I'm working entire with Value and not with any of my own types. |
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| 04:09:03 | <jchia> | if an Object a.b.c already exists then output is the same as input. |
| 04:10:14 | <jchia> | If an Object a.b already exists but it has no c, then c gets added to a.b. If it has a c that is not an Object, then it's an error (I can make the function produce a Maybe Value to allow for errors). |
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| 07:01:19 | <dminuoso> | jchia: This requires a prism afaik |
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| 07:01:26 | <dminuoso> | % review _Left 10 |
| 07:01:27 | <yahb> | dminuoso: Left 10 |
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| 07:04:31 | <dminuoso> | Ultimately, with lens I think you cant get around saying: input & key "a" .~ object ["b" .= object [c .= object []]] |
| 07:04:41 | <dminuoso> | Ah, missing some quotes around c in there |
| 07:05:07 | <dminuoso> | You could, make a fold out of this presumably |
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| 07:08:44 | <dminuoso> | let emptyChain xs = fold (\l r -> object [l .= r]) xs [] |
| 07:09:10 | <dminuoso> | in emptyChain ["a", "b", "c"] |
| 07:09:24 | <dminuoso> | oh with foldr as well. |
| 07:09:47 | <dansho> | does stack work on MSYS2? can't install cabal https://hastebin.com/muzaxovove |
| 07:09:51 | <dminuoso> | So let emptyChain xs = foldr (\l r -> object [l .= r]) [] xs in emptyChain ["a", "b", "c] |
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| 07:17:18 | <[exa]> | dansho: that doesn't really look like msys2-specific error |
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| 07:32:49 | <dansho> | [exa], it's a fresh install of stack with 'curl -sSL https://get.haskellstack.org/ | sh' |
| 07:33:49 | <dansho> | i don't use stack normally so i may be missing something, the installation instructions dont mention any more steps: https://docs.haskellstack.org/en/stable/install_and_upgrade/ |
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| 07:34:31 | <[exa]> | my immediately-unhelpful opinion would be to avoid stack, but I guess that doesn't help you immediately |
| 07:35:07 | <[exa]> | can you do with say just ghcup? |
| 07:35:39 | <maerwald> | installing cabal-install from hackage has always been a bit shaky... better just get the binary |
| 07:35:54 | <[exa]> | +1 |
| 07:36:37 | <dansho> | [exa], tried that: Unknown platform: MSYS_NT-10.0-19041 |
| 07:37:08 | <dansho> | or in a mingw64 shell: Unknown platform: MINGW64_NT-10.0-19041 |
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| 07:40:05 | <dansho> | i guess i have access to ghc through 'stack ghc' |
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| 08:34:27 | <Unhammer> | Do I need more than 16G RAM to run haskell-language-server ? |
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| 08:35:19 | <Unhammer> | free -m says 5588, but I keep getting "libpthread.so.0: failed to map segment from shared object" or "mmap: failed. errno = 12" or (if I do ulimit -Sv unlimited) "allocatestack.c:384: advise_stack_range: Assertion `freesize < size' failed" |
| 08:36:14 | <maerwald> | Unhammer: you need more than 16G ram to run GHC |
| 08:37:10 | <Unhammer> | uh no? |
| 08:37:18 | <maerwald> | yes |
| 08:37:27 | <Unhammer> | I compile things all the time |
| 08:37:31 | <maerwald> | depends on the project you're working on ofc :) |
| 08:38:04 | <maerwald> | I've hit ram limit very frequently on some projects with ghc and 16g |
| 08:38:28 | <maerwald> | so 32 is more reasonable and there's a chance the language server fits into it |
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| 08:38:48 | <Unhammer> | well, my project compiles fine in ghc with <4G free, but haskell-language-server keeps failing. Guess I'll try dante. |
| 08:39:27 | hackage | pgf2 1.2.1 - Bindings to the C version of the PGF runtime https://hackage.haskell.org/package/pgf2-1.2.1 (JohnCamilleri) |
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| 08:45:41 | <phadej> | I wonder if I'm net-negative or net-positive in saved time, as I didn't ever bothered to look on anything more complicated than ghcid |
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| 08:48:18 | <Unhammer> | probably positive |
| 08:48:19 | <Lycurgus> | 0.0 |
| 08:48:20 | <Unhammer> | but I like "go to definition" |
| 08:48:36 | <phadej> | hasktags works reasonably well too |
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| 08:49:21 | <phadej> | (given you don't reuse names too much, which OTOH ide supporters promote too ;) |
| 08:49:43 | <maerwald> | I used to use codex, which uses hasktags, but it seems it's broken now |
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| 08:53:02 | <dminuoso> | Dependency cycle between the following components: library |
| 08:53:02 | <dminuoso> | A cycle between `library`. Uh. |
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| 08:53:52 | <phadej> | it probably depends on itself. |
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| 08:54:50 | <dminuoso> | phadej: It says `In the inplace package 'freyja-api-0.2.0.0'`, but that package builds just fine. |
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| 08:57:27 | <phadej> | some private package? (i.e. not on Hackage?) |
| 08:57:51 | <phadej> | sorry, cannot help with those. |
| 08:57:52 | <dminuoso> | Oh haha. This is a subtle one, which I somewhat regularly read others do as well. |
| 08:58:02 | <dminuoso> | I copy pasted a cabal file, so I had two packages with the same name |
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| 08:58:13 | <dminuoso> | (by name I mean the actual name field in the cabal file) |
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| 09:00:04 | <dminuoso> | Think edward mentioned this a few times as well |
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| 09:01:35 | <Rembane> | I wonder if that has been reported as a bug. I would love to have cabal scream and shout when that happens. |
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| 09:02:42 | <int-e> | dminuoso: how should cabal-install know that it's not two different versions of the same package? |
| 09:03:50 | <int-e> | (hmm, there was no need for that highlight) |
| 09:04:18 | <dminuoso> | Is that even supported? |
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| 09:05:26 | <int-e> | I don't know. I thought all the "new" nix-style stuff was meant to support this as well. |
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| 09:06:59 | <dminuoso> | Well coexistence in the store. If this was in the same build plan, either there'd be no interop possible or you could have incoherent code |
| 09:07:14 | <dminuoso> | So Im not quite sure what benefit you'd have if there was two different packages of the same version |
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| 09:07:26 | <dminuoso> | err, two different versions of the same package >:) |
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| 09:07:41 | <int-e> | But there is the diamond problem, so doing this on a project level needs a distinction between internal and externally visible dependencies and I'm not up-to-date on whether this exists or not. |
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| 09:08:11 | <int-e> | dminuoso: Well in a world where all your projects share a single store... |
| 09:08:22 | <int-e> | ...some of which may be stable and others may be living on the edge... |
| 09:08:40 | <int-e> | I think there's a benefit of having multiple versions of the same package in the store. |
| 09:08:50 | <dminuoso> | well, if you have incompatible version bounds on some shared dependency, then no build plan can be generated |
| 09:08:58 | <dminuoso> | this happens all the time when people forget to bump base bounds |
| 09:09:01 | <int-e> | I don't like this world. I like (soon: liked) sandboxes. |
| 09:09:09 | <dminuoso> | Sure, in the store! |
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| 09:09:18 | <dminuoso> | But not inside a package |
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| 09:10:07 | <dminuoso> | So Im thinking, cabal ought to just complain "there's two packages with the same name `foo`, so your dependency on `foo` is ambiguous. please fix" |
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| 09:10:23 | <int-e> | hmm is this some subpackage stuff? |
| 09:10:26 | <dminuoso> | yeah |
| 09:10:49 | <int-e> | Okay, yeah then I see no reason to support this. |
| 09:11:00 | <dminuoso> | I have foo-server/ foo-api/ and foo-api-swagger/ with the obvious dependencies. |
| 09:11:25 | <dminuoso> | Now, foo-api-swagger/_.cabal was copied from foo-api/_.cabal, but I forgot to change its name |
| 09:11:30 | <dminuoso> | (and cabal project files tie them together) |
| 09:11:52 | <dminuoso> | so actually |
| 09:11:56 | <dminuoso> | this is not subpackages |
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| 09:14:07 | <int-e> | right. |
| 09:14:15 | <int-e> | this is me lagging behind the times. |
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| 09:14:32 | <int-e> | (I'm still using v1 commands... will need to switch soon though.) |
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| 09:15:31 | <int-e> | (and my substitute for cabal projects has been sandboxes and canned add-source commands in a shell script) |
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| 09:21:53 | <chreekat[m]> | I use fast-tags + ghcid , and I think any improvements for me would entirely be improvements to Cabal, not to the other tools. I.e. it would be really nice to be able to repl *both* the library *and* the tests at the same time. As it is, I often have two separate windows, repl'ing the two separate components, and the test repl is further buried under `entr`... |
| 09:22:28 | <chreekat[m]> | I'm not saying that fast-tags + ghcid is nirvana or anything, +1 to people making better tools all around, everywhere |
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| 10:04:00 | <siraben> | Should I use haskell.packages.ghc8102.ghcWithPackages in my nix-shell or install things with cabal instead? |
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| 11:13:54 | <maerwald> | int-e: you can emulate sandboxes with cabal --store-dir=$(pwd) build |
| 11:13:58 | <kuribas> | is jhc still developped? Why would you use it over ghc? |
| 11:14:55 | <galagora> | Why isn't base 4.14.1.0 on Hackage? |
| 11:15:06 | <maerwald> | aplainzetakind: I fixed the thing were ghcup cannot compile the same version as the bootstrap version |
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| 11:26:58 | hackage | rpmbuild-order 0.4.3 - Order RPM packages by dependencies https://hackage.haskell.org/package/rpmbuild-order-0.4.3 (JensPetersen) |
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| 11:37:44 | <c_wraith> | galagora: because you can't download it and just use it. versions of base are tightly tied to versions of GHC. |
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| 11:39:37 | <c_wraith> | Hmm. it's usually there for documentation though. Maybe there are no doc difference between 4.14.0.0 and 4.4.14.1.0 |
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| 12:05:01 | <Flaapt> | Silence! |
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| 12:09:26 | <tomsmeding> | Flaapt: https://ircbrowse.tomsmeding.com the channel is not silent, though that particular 30 seconds might have been ;) |
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| 12:10:36 | <Flaapt> | And here I felt all mighty and powerful |
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| 12:11:45 | ski | glances nervously at Flaapt |
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| 12:13:46 | <Flaapt> | No worries. Im just exploring irc and voices told me this was an interesting channel |
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| 12:15:26 | <ski> | it can often be |
| 12:15:27 | hackage | graphql-w-persistent 0.9.1.0 - GraphQL interface middleware for SQL databases. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/graphql-w-persistent-0.9.1.0 (jasonsychau) |
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| 12:39:27 | <Flaapt> | Hi |
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| 12:42:03 | <ophania> | HI |
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| 12:43:19 | <ski> | hello |
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| 13:11:57 | hackage | streamly-lmdb 0.1.0 - Stream data to or from LMDB databases using the streamly library. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/streamly-lmdb-0.1.0 (shlok) |
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| 13:31:04 | <exarkun> | dminuoso: What about https://github.com/dminuoso/servant-prometheus ? :) |
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| 14:20:28 | hackage | polysemy-http 0.2.0.3 - Polysemy effect for http-client https://hackage.haskell.org/package/polysemy-http-0.2.0.3 (tek) |
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| 14:24:15 | <exarkun> | I guess there are some build issues. |
| 14:24:16 | <galagora> | Hey, any Hackage trustees willing to fix https://github.com/haskell/base16-bytestring/issues/14? |
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| 14:25:51 | <Uniaika> | topos: ^ |
| 14:25:58 | <Uniaika> | ah no, sorry |
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| 14:26:41 | <Uniaika> | I think hvr_ is one, though |
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| 14:27:59 | <merijn> | This is what you get when people say they shouldn't add upperbounds on dependencies because "updating them is too much work" >.> then they end up breaking everyone else when their dependencies update >.> |
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| 14:28:43 | <maerwald> | That's why distros test reverse dependencies before pushing new versions |
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| 14:30:29 | <maerwald> | Or just don't change your API all the time :) |
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| 14:30:46 | <maerwald> | Deprecation warnings are a thing too |
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| 14:32:17 | <merijn> | Or you follow the PVP |
| 14:32:50 | <maerwald> | That's what got us into cabal hell in the first place |
| 14:33:06 | <maerwald> | but I think that's a philosophical discussion |
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| 14:35:01 | <maerwald> | the semantic difference of ^>= isn't really used in practice, is it? |
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| 14:35:51 | <merijn> | maerwald: You can only relax only ^>= when building, iirc |
| 14:37:18 | <merijn> | maerwald: I advertise that my packages follow the PVP, I refuse to take on additional testing responsibilities because other people write shitty bounds when they depend on my code and I think that sorta "extra unpaid labour" is toxic to open source as a whole |
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| 14:37:37 | <maerwald> | merijn: that's what CI is for |
| 14:37:48 | <maerwald> | distros have been doing this for 20+ years |
| 14:38:03 | <merijn> | maerwald: I do CI, to see if *my* stuff builds |
| 14:38:11 | <maerwald> | we already have hackage CI |
| 14:38:41 | <merijn> | That doesn't build candidates, afaik |
| 14:38:46 | <merijn> | So that doesn't help |
| 14:39:05 | <maerwald> | Yes, it needs to be extended |
| 14:39:08 | <merijn> | Because it only notices breakage when you release a new version, at which point it's already the problem of "stuff depending on you" |
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| 14:39:44 | <maerwald> | these aren't hard problems... it's just work and infrastructure someone has to pay |
| 14:39:49 | <merijn> | maerwald: And then what? Something that depends on my stuff breaks, now I have to someone annoy a maintainer of some obscure package to fix it before releasing my stuff? |
| 14:40:04 | <maerwald> | yes, that's called communication :p |
| 14:40:18 | <maerwald> | you publish a release candidate so to speak |
| 14:40:33 | <merijn> | maerwald: Right, so we "just" need to solve the "funding open source development" problem...I'm sure that's an easy problem we'll fix in no time! |
| 14:40:53 | <maerwald> | then CI picks up your release candidate, builds reverse deps with it and sends emails to maintainers |
| 14:40:57 | <maerwald> | can all be automated |
| 14:41:06 | <maerwald> | none of this is difficult |
| 14:41:20 | <merijn> | maerwald: I await your patches enthusiastically, then ;) |
| 14:41:53 | <maerwald> | I don't believe tooling makes a healthy ecosystem. CI and communication does. |
| 14:43:14 | <merijn> | I believe communicating is another dose of "extra unpaid responsibility" which is not something that can be expected from unpaid volunteers :) |
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| 14:43:34 | <maerwald> | well, if you don't care about anything or anyone, keep your package on github |
| 14:43:36 | <yushyin> | so why can't there be upperbounds and also emails to inform maintainer to update the bounds? So I can release my stuff without breaking other stuff. |
| 14:43:39 | <yushyin> | :/ |
| 14:44:08 | <merijn> | yushyin: Well, that's what I advocated |
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| 14:44:17 | <yushyin> | ok! |
| 14:44:39 | <merijn> | yushyin: But there's a group of "aggressively anti-upperbounds" people |
| 14:45:13 | <maerwald> | don't turn this into politics :) |
| 14:45:24 | <merijn> | Who argue that you should never have those, because bumping them on release is too much work, but magically breaking build-plans when your dependencies update is not more work |
| 14:45:32 | <merijn> | maerwald: *everything* is politics |
| 14:45:43 | <phadej> | it is politics. There are rational arguments, but they are dismissed |
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| 14:46:28 | <merijn> | And "multi-billion tech corporations offloading all their maintenance work on unpaid open source volunteers" is *especially* politics |
| 14:47:07 | <maerwald> | merijn: weird, when I worked on linux distros for half a decade, no one paid me and we still pulled it off |
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| 14:47:52 | <maerwald> | so yes, you can decide different routes and they have different problems |
| 14:48:03 | <merijn> | maerwald: I'm not saying it can't be done |
| 14:48:16 | <merijn> | I'm saying that building a world where that's normal is morally wrong |
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| 14:49:08 | <merijn> | maerwald: I'd like a world where you *wouldn't* have to do that unpaid work just to keep digital infrastructure from collapsing |
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| 14:49:43 | <maerwald> | merijn: I don't think it makes anything collapse, that's why you pin hackage state |
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| 14:50:36 | <maerwald> | But I would like a release candidate workflow that's powered by testing reverse dependencies |
| 14:50:49 | <maerwald> | at least for a set of core packages, maybe |
| 14:51:24 | <maerwald> | Anything outside hackage can go f...find someone else to fix :) |
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| 14:56:12 | <sm[m]> | chreekat: It's easy to repl multiple components at once, there's a recent reddit thread on it |
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| 14:58:36 | <maerwald> | merijn: an alternative approach is https://dependabot.com/rust/ |
| 14:59:18 | <maerwald> | the lack of such tools might be due to the complexity of Cabal |
| 14:59:22 | <maerwald> | I am not sure |
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| 15:00:38 | <yushyin> | looks cool. |
| 15:01:43 | <sm[m]> | chreekat: .... https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/it7ohv/developing_multiple_local_packages_at_once_in_repl/ |
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| 15:02:06 | <exarkun> | Anyone want to help with this type error, it's rather beyond me. It comes while trying to upgrade the servant-prometheus Servant dependency to 0.16 - https://gist.github.com/exarkun/ed204d9286cf11c807f14d7b1e2252f1 I assume it has something to do with (at least) https://github.com/PrivateStorageio/servant-prometheus/blob/update-lts/lib/Servant/Prometheus.hs#L129-L150 |
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| 15:02:49 | <merijn> | sm[m]: Eh, it's not, unless you run a HEAD version of GHC >.> |
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| 15:07:02 | <siraben> | > zipWith ($) (cycle [toLower, toUpper]) "hello everyone i love haskell" |
| 15:07:04 | <lambdabot> | "hElLo eVeRyOnE I LoVe hAsKeLl" |
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| 15:08:14 | <chreekat[m]> | sm: I'm curious which of those options was "easy": the one that uses brand new unmerged gsoc contributions, or the one that requires adding on build tools and using them to create custom scripts that probably still don't do what I want, anyway :) But it does look like people are working on it, yay! |
| 15:08:40 | <merijn> | chreekat[m]: Yeah, lack of multi-components support was what held back a lot of IDE like stuff too |
| 15:09:07 | <merijn> | chreekat[m]: So this will improve multi-component support in ghcide and hls too \o/ |
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| 15:10:15 | <sm[m]> | chreekat: what I posted is relatively easy, if you need it I think it's a valuable tip |
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| 15:10:58 | hackage | persistent-qq 2.9.2 - Provides a quasi-quoter for raw SQL for persistent https://hackage.haskell.org/package/persistent-qq-2.9.2 (parsonsmatt) |
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| 15:13:08 | <sm[m]> | "to ghci/ghcid your whole multicomponent project at once, add -iDIR options to the repl command" |
| 15:13:38 | <siraben> | Is ekmett online? |
| 15:13:51 | <dolio> | His handle is edwardk. |
| 15:14:40 | <dolio> | Logged in here doesn't necessarily mean paying attention, though. |
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| 15:21:06 | <maerwald> | cabal test seems to hide test steps, even when I say --jobs=1 |
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| 15:28:09 | <hekkaidekapus> | maerwald: Experiment: `cabal -vnormal+nowrap test` |
| 15:29:12 | <maerwald> | nope, it's still just showing "Running 1 test suites" and then doesn't show anything until it errors or finishes and I can open the logs |
| 15:30:20 | <hekkaidekapus> | Steps are better served with `cabal run` |
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| 15:33:21 | <merijn> | maerwald: Which test-suite? |
| 15:33:29 | <merijn> | maerwald: tasty? |
| 15:33:45 | <maerwald> | hspec |
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| 15:34:18 | <merijn> | So, tasty checks if it's talking to a terminal at least, so that doesn't always work with cabal's piping |
| 15:34:31 | <merijn> | maerwald: Does it work if you use "cabal run" to run the test? |
| 15:34:36 | <maerwald> | kinda |
| 15:35:04 | <merijn> | then probably hspec is detecting a pipe and messing with buffering/output when it does? |
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| 15:54:28 | <tomsmeding> | any hints for how to build aeson on a machine with 1 GB of RAM? :p |
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| 15:56:07 | <davean> | tomsmeding: uh, passing a -M option to GHC? |
| 15:56:18 | <davean> | tomsmeding: where did you find a machine like that? |
| 15:56:48 | <tomsmeding> | That machine is a tiny VPS :p |
| 15:57:15 | <tomsmeding> | Will try -M when I get back |
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| 15:57:37 | <davean> | tomsmeding: good luck? |
| 15:57:56 | tomsmeding | o/ |
| 15:58:42 | <davean> | could try the non-copying collectors? |
| 15:58:59 | <davean> | -c |
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| 16:05:10 | <monochrom> | Yeah, "copying GC" means double buffering. |
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| 16:08:13 | <davean> | failing all that, enable swap of course |
| 16:08:19 | <davean> | but the less you need that the better |
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| 16:29:10 | <tomsmeding> | passing +RTS -c to ghc makes it run longer, but it still doesn't get past Data.Aeson.Parser.Internal |
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| 16:35:20 | <davean> | tomsmeding: well, a little swap? |
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| 16:35:30 | <tomsmeding> | yes :p |
| 16:35:37 | <tomsmeding> | ghc doesn't seem to do anything with -M |
| 16:36:09 | <davean> | you have to say what the -M is |
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| 16:38:36 | <sm[m]> | @where lowmem |
| 16:38:37 | <lambdabot> | I know nothing about lowmem. |
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| 16:40:11 | <tomsmeding> | I know, I first passed -M750M, then lower, finally -M200M |
| 16:40:17 | <tomsmeding> | didn't help, still filled up memory :) |
| 16:40:25 | ← | davama parts (~davama@c-73-248-238-158.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) () |
| 16:40:33 | <davean> | Can you show me how you passed it? |
| 16:40:41 | <tomsmeding> | ooh Data.Aeson.Types.FromJSON is also a large one, |
| 16:40:56 | <geekosaur> | isn't that an RTS option? |
| 16:40:57 | <tomsmeding> | davean: stack build --RTS --ghc-options +RTS --ghc-options -M100M --ghc-options -c --ghc-options -RTS |
| 16:41:04 | <tomsmeding> | aeson is a dependency of the project I'm building |
| 16:41:51 | <tomsmeding> | without RTS flags it managed to fill up 1G of swap and then still crash :p |
| 16:42:23 | <davean> | I don't know stack, but you sure thats not passing the RTS options to stack instead of GHC? |
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| 16:42:47 | <davean> | I note theres no quotes there. |
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| 16:43:19 | <tomsmeding> | note the --RTS in the beginning |
| 16:43:28 | <davean> | I do note that. |
| 16:43:39 | <tomsmeding> | '--ghc-options' is not an RTS option, so if stack was interpreting them, it would've thrown an error |
| 16:43:57 | <tomsmeding> | and indeed, I forgot --RTS at first, and stack threw the expected error |
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| 16:49:22 | <tomsmeding> | aeson successfully built! peak usage: 1.3G of swap, in addition to most of the 1G of actual RAM |
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| 16:57:54 | <tomsmeding> | okay https://ircbrowse.tomsmeding.com/ is successfully running on ghc 8.8.4 sm[m] |
| 16:59:24 | <sm[m]> | nice tomsmeding! |
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| 17:00:51 | <merijn> | Wouldn't it be easier to build in a VM then ship the result to the VPS? :p |
| 17:01:00 | <merijn> | Or is that big brain thinking? |
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| 17:03:35 | <tomsmeding> | perhaps :p |
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| 17:03:47 | <tomsmeding> | though hopefully I won't need to be building aeson in a while again |
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| 17:07:22 | <sm[m]> | for the record, that stack build |
| 17:07:22 | <sm[m]> | command looks weird to me too |
| 17:07:38 | <[exa]> | hm, reading Regex.TDFA... is there any reason why ⌜p_escaped = char '\\' >> anyChar >>= \c -> char_index >>= return . (`PEscape` c)⌝ would be better than the (imho) more readable applicative version? |
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| 17:09:19 | <geekosaur> | Regex.TDFA predates nice Applicative-supporting versions of Parsec? |
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| 17:10:52 | <dolio> | Shouldn't a Thompson DFA algorithm be doing something better than parsec? |
| 17:10:52 | <geekosaur> | although that looks a little unfortunate even as monadic code, at least use fmap/liftM! |
| 17:11:15 | <[exa]> | dolio: it's for parsing the input regexes |
| 17:11:28 | <dolio> | Oh, I see. |
| 17:11:40 | <wgytfr78> | My privats videos skype webcam 400gb links open in Tor Browser gg.gg/m7dgu |
| 17:11:42 | ← | wgytfr78 parts (4d6ff75b@77.111.247.91) () |
| 17:11:52 | <[exa]> | (anyway the T is for "tagged" in this case, there's some theory behind that) |
| 17:12:08 | <[exa]> | geekosaur: ok looking at the docs date that seems quite likely, 2009 in fact |
| 17:12:58 | <dolio> | Yeah, I would guess it's just old. |
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| 17:13:26 | <tomsmeding> | sm[m]: what would you expect it to look like instead? |
| 17:13:43 | <[exa]> | technically, I expect there's no bad surprise (performance?) in rewriting it to something like ⌜flip PEscape <$> char '\\' *> anyChar <*> char_index⌝ ? |
| 17:14:38 | <sm[m]> | can't check it just now, but I will |
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| 17:28:16 | <dolio> | [exa]: I would be surprised if that were significantly worse. |
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| 17:30:27 | hackage | patat 0.8.6.1 - Terminal-based presentations using Pandoc https://hackage.haskell.org/package/patat-0.8.6.1 (JasperVanDerJeugt) |
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| 17:31:12 | <[exa]> | dolio: ok thanks |
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| 17:33:58 | hackage | clckwrks 0.26.1 - A secure, reliable content management system (CMS) and blogging platform https://hackage.haskell.org/package/clckwrks-0.26.1 (JeremyShaw) |
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| 18:49:10 | <hyiltiz> | Is it possible to compute embed a hashstring inside its input, aha does a hash function that can satisfy the following property exist (if not, can we prove): X = hash(X++Y) where ++ is string concatanation, Y is arbitrary string, X is computed and embedded hash string. |
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| 18:50:29 | <hyiltiz> | s/compute//, s/aha/aka/ |
| 18:51:05 | <hyiltiz> | I.e. is it ever possible to embed the checksum/hash of a file inside the same file being hashed? |
| 18:53:08 | <geekosaur> | it could conceivably occur there randomly, but if it's a secure hash function then one of the things it's trying to do is prevent that scenario |
| 18:53:20 | <exarkun> | It's called a fixed point |
| 18:53:25 | <exarkun> | most hash functions have them |
| 18:53:28 | <exarkun> | many of them are known |
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| 18:53:52 | <exarkun> | wait no, where Y is arbitrary? sorry didn't read very carefully |
| 18:54:11 | <geekosaur> | (but at best it can only make it very unlikely) |
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| 18:56:37 | <merijn> | It depends on the kind of hash |
| 18:56:50 | <merijn> | There's way to many implicit unstated assumption here to give any answer |
| 18:57:34 | <merijn> | There are certainly hashes where "hash a <> hash b == hash (a <> b)" |
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| 18:57:49 | <merijn> | Probably not cryptographically secure hashes, but then, that was never stated |
| 18:58:20 | <merijn> | I mean, "checksum is embedded in the file" is trivially answered via: "yes" |
| 18:58:26 | <merijn> | Exhibit #1: CRC32 |
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| 18:58:52 | <merijn> | Like, that's literally what IP packets do :) |
| 18:59:23 | <hyiltiz> | merijn: what assumptions du think needs to be specified/relevant for a meaningful discussion? |
| 18:59:36 | <hyiltiz> | thx for mentioning crc32 i'll look into it |
| 19:00:32 | <geekosaur> | what kind of hash, for one. merijn and I both mentioned cryptographically secure hashes, which try to make a number of guarantees or near-guarantees compared to other kinds of hashes |
| 19:00:33 | <merijn> | hyiltiz: Well, hash is often implicitly interpreted as "cryptographically secure" and most of the well known hashes are (or rather, were intended to be) cryptographically secure in which case what you're asking is actively designed against |
| 19:00:55 | <merijn> | hyiltiz: CRC32 otoh is designed as a checksum against non-malicious tampering |
| 19:01:39 | <merijn> | i.e. it detects "natural" errors and thus properties like "embedding the checksum" are kinda nice, since for example IP packets want the checksum included in the packet for things to make any sense |
| 19:01:50 | <hyiltiz> | if by cryptographically secure means can only unhash with gazillion computers in gazillion years, then no, I didn't specify that and is not needed. |
| 19:02:18 | <merijn> | hyiltiz: Cryptographically secure means "we don't want attackers to be able to forge unintended messages" |
| 19:02:24 | <merijn> | Suppose you have an email |
| 19:02:26 | <monochrom> | But CRC doesn't satisfy X = hash(X++Y). CRC satisfies X=hash(Y) iff 0=hash(Y++X) |
| 19:02:38 | <merijn> | monochrom: Nobody said it did |
| 19:02:56 | <merijn> | monochrom: The follow up question was about "embedding the checksum in the file being checked" |
| 19:03:02 | <merijn> | monochrom: Which is what CRC32 answered |
| 19:03:06 | <monochrom> | But hyiltiz was stating X = hash(X++Y |
| 19:03:10 | <sm[m]> | tomsmeding: re your "stack build --RTS --ghc-options +RTS --ghc-options -M100M --ghc-options -c --ghc-options -RTS" command - I can easily get confused here but the --RTS flag looks weird/unknown |
| 19:03:50 | <tomsmeding> | I barely ever use RTS flags, but in this case I read the documentation :) |
| 19:03:52 | <merijn> | hyiltiz: Now, suppose you checksum the aforementioned email, but the checksum allows someone else to append text to your email and compute a new (valid) checksum |
| 19:04:13 | <merijn> | hyiltiz: That's clearly undesirable if you plan to use checksum to guarantee data integrity in the presence of attackers |
| 19:04:15 | <tomsmeding> | +RTS starts RTS flags, -RTS stops RTS flags; --RTS permanently stops RTS flags so that you can pass stuff that _looks_ like an RTS flag as normal options |
| 19:04:45 | <merijn> | But if you only plan to guard against, e.g. data corruption by magnetic waves or cosmic radiation, then it's probably fine |
| 19:04:48 | <tomsmeding> | if I didn't use --RTS there, stack itself would've interpreted the +RTS, tried to parse --ghc-options as an RTS flag, and failed |
| 19:05:14 | <hyiltiz> | merijn: I get what u mean but that other one is gonna have a different Y and as a result (most likely) a different X |
| 19:05:32 | <merijn> | hyiltiz: So "cryptographically secure" hashes are the class of hashes that are expected to be robust in the presence of malicious/active manipulation of the data (which means the properties you asked about are actively undesirable) |
| 19:05:56 | <hyiltiz> | so if I know the hash, I can look up that hash by text search and find exactly the file I am looking for |
| 19:06:37 | <monochrom> | tomsmeding: Does it help to use the syntax --ghc-options=+RTS ? |
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| 19:06:50 | <exarkun> | hyiltiz: Why don't you just not include the hash value if you ever need to rehash the content? |
| 19:06:54 | <hyiltiz> | so I guess i am not interested in cryptographically secure type of hash |
| 19:06:58 | <exarkun> | hyiltiz: Why do you want to embed a hash in a document? |
| 19:07:36 | <monochrom> | Yeah, usually embedded hash is of interest to hardware desginers only. Their life is easier that way. |
| 19:07:40 | <hyiltiz> | exarkun: huh? u mean, hash the file, emded the hash in it and store; if file is edited, repeat? |
| 19:07:45 | <monochrom> | A programmable couldn't care less either way. |
| 19:07:52 | geekosaur | would typically put the hash as metadata, possibly by (sym)linking the file by its hash as well as its name |
| 19:07:54 | <tomsmeding> | monochrom: help for what, exactly? |
| 19:07:58 | <exarkun> | hyiltiz: No |
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| 19:08:15 | <exarkun> | hyiltiz: Or, sure, do it like that if you want I suppose |
| 19:08:16 | <geekosaur> | tomsmeding, presumably hiding RTS options from stack so it doesn't eat them |
| 19:08:25 | <hyiltiz> | oh a table of file names and hashes alongside the actual files? |
| 19:08:29 | <exarkun> | hyiltiz: Why do you need to embed the hash in the file? |
| 19:08:40 | <geekosaur> | since stack's own RTS won't spot it that way |
| 19:08:42 | <monochrom> | The syntax --ghc-options=+RTS does not require you to escape +RTS, i.e., stack does not swallow/interpret "+RTS" for itself. |
| 19:09:00 | <merijn> | tomsmeding, geekosaur: Or, here's a crazy idea, just use -- |
| 19:09:08 | <hyiltiz> | then, I can look for the hash to find the file of interest (among say 10^6 files, each hashed with an embeddable hash) |
| 19:09:11 | <merijn> | The RTS will ignore all +RTS options after -- |
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| 19:09:23 | <merijn> | In the great unix tradition of not consuming flags after -- |
| 19:09:41 | <hyiltiz> | but application aside, I am more interested in the feasibility/solutions of the X=hash(X++Y) equation above |
| 19:09:56 | <geekosaur> | but then there are possibly stack options to be passed |
| 19:09:59 | <monochrom> | I have doubt about the semantics of -- in this case though. |
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| 19:10:29 | <geekosaur> | which is why the RTS has its own "--RTS" so it doesn't also turn off arbitrary option parsing |
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| 19:10:31 | <monochrom> | For simple programs the semantics of -- is accordingly simple. |
| 19:10:35 | <merijn> | monochrom: I don't, because I know it works |
| 19:10:41 | <monochrom> | OK! |
| 19:10:49 | <exarkun> | hyiltiz: It has differing degrees of feasibility depending on the hash function you pick. But in general I don't see the value. |
| 19:10:54 | <merijn> | monochrom: I use it to pass +RTS flags when using "cabal run" |
| 19:11:09 | <monochrom> | but this is "stack build", not even "stack run" |
| 19:11:12 | <tomsmeding> | merijn: I want to pass options to GHC through stack |
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| 19:11:34 | <tomsmeding> | I am thoroughly confused now what --ghc-options expects |
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| 19:12:18 | <hyiltiz> | exarkun: I can't think of any function to pick from that could satisfy that equation (some kinda fixed point to bootstrapping; not sure how to describe that equation with words) |
| 19:12:20 | <geekosaur> | as is typical for long options, they can take parameters which are either combined (--foo=bar) or separate (--foo bar) |
| 19:12:22 | <merijn> | tomsmeding: The real answer is "--ghc-options" isn't generally used to pass RTS options to ghc and I doubt stack really supports that well |
| 19:12:24 | <sm[m]> | I've always done --ghc-options='-some -ghc -options' to be safe |
| 19:12:36 | <tomsmeding> | sm[m]: it splits on spaces? |
| 19:12:39 | <geekosaur> | the = version can be useful in cases where the parameter looks like an option |
| 19:12:40 | <hyiltiz> | monochrom pointed out that CRC isnt actually the solution to that eq. |
| 19:12:44 | <tomsmeding> | what if you want to pass an option to GHC that contains spaces? |
| 19:12:55 | <merijn> | tomsmeding: With cabal I'd just define a shell script that does 'ghc +RTS my options -RTS "$@"' |
| 19:13:04 | <merijn> | And then point cabal at the shell script |
| 19:13:05 | <exarkun> | hyiltiz: hash x = 0 |
| 19:13:14 | <merijn> | But that probably doesn't work with stack |
| 19:13:14 | <sm[m]> | tomsmeding: dunno the details but I have the impression it works. I believe you about --RTS.. was it in the stack user guide ? I didn't find it in stack --help |
| 19:13:28 | <tomsmeding> | sm[m]: ghc +RTS --help |
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| 19:13:47 | <tomsmeding> | it's to prevent the RTS of the 'stack' executable from interpreting them |
| 19:14:16 | <tomsmeding> | I sincerely hope that to stack, '--ghc-options ABC' is the same as '--ghc-options -v' is the same as '--ghc-options +RTS', mutatis mutandis |
| 19:14:23 | <sm[m]> | ah, tricksy.. so --RTS is another of those hidden flags supported by all GHC-built executables |
| 19:14:23 | <sm[m]> | thanks |
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| 19:14:52 | <sm[m]> | stack build --ghc-options='+RTS -M500m -RTS' <- is the kind of syntax I usually use |
| 19:14:54 | <hyiltiz> | exarkun: Ok, so the hash function doesn't have to be cryptographically secure, but it should at least map slightly different Ys into vastly different Xs; so a trivial hash x = 0 isn't really an interesting solution |
| 19:15:19 | <exarkun> | hyiltiz: interesting is in the eye of the beholder :) |
| 19:15:36 | <sm[m]> | tomsmeding: and if in doubt I would definitely add -v to verify |
| 19:15:47 | <tomsmeding> | okay the plot thickens |
| 19:15:59 | <tomsmeding> | the options you give to --ghc-options are _actually_ first passed to a Setup executable somewhere |
| 19:16:07 | <tomsmeding> | which then interprets those +RTS options |
| 19:16:14 | <tomsmeding> | they don't even reach ghc |
| 19:16:21 | <tomsmeding> | and no, --ghc-options=--RTS before it doesn't help :p |
| 19:16:28 | <hyiltiz> | I just defined what "interesting" means: as a hash function, it has to a) at least map slightly different Ys into vastly different Xs most of the time; b) unhashing (Y->X) is hard. |
| 19:16:42 | <hyiltiz> | but I agree; beauty beholds |
| 19:16:46 | <monochrom> | This is what's wrong with 5 layers of abstractions. Every layer wants to have a say. |
| 19:16:49 | <geekosaur> | so you need to embed another… wat. wonder if it's actually an executable then |
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| 19:17:09 | <geekosaur> | or if it's runghc-d which means still another level needed |
| 19:17:19 | <geekosaur> | fuuuuuun |
| 19:17:34 | <geekosaur> | (possibly 2 but I think 1) |
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| 19:18:14 | <tomsmeding> | $ stack build --RTS --ghc-options=--RTS --ghc-options=+RTS --ghc-options=-s --ghc-options=-RTS |
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| 19:18:20 | <tomsmeding> | Cabal-simple_mPHDZzAJ_3.0.1.0_ghc-8.8.4: Unrecognised build target '+RTS'. |
| 19:18:21 | <monochrom> | Reminds me that in emacs regex I have to say like \\\\( for parenthesis. |
| 19:18:22 | <tomsmeding> | I don't even know |
| 19:18:43 | <merijn> | Here's a crazy idea |
| 19:18:45 | <tomsmeding> | (-s is my test flag since it should give visible output) |
| 19:18:56 | <tomsmeding> | replace $(which ghc) with a shell script? |
| 19:18:57 | <tomsmeding> | yes |
| 19:18:57 | <merijn> | Why do you not write this stuff inside the ghc-options field of your cabal file |
| 19:19:22 | <tomsmeding> | because I want to use those flags to build a dependency of my project |
| 19:19:26 | <tomsmeding> | aeson, to be specific |
| 19:19:32 | <tomsmeding> | so I don't control its cabal file :) |
| 19:20:01 | <geekosaur> | were this a cabal project, you could use cabal.project to do it I think |
| 19:20:02 | <monochrom> | Some kind of cabal.project.local file can help you. You can add a clause for "how to build aeson". |
| 19:20:08 | <merijn> | I was gonna write "so add them to cabal.project.local", but that's probably not helpful with stack |
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| 19:20:18 | <merijn> | geekosaur, monochrom: Hah, same mistake |
| 19:20:19 | <monochrom> | For stack I don't know but I think there is a counterpart. |
| 19:20:22 | <geekosaur> | yeh, sorry, cabal.project.local |
| 19:20:40 | <merijn> | tomsmeding: Stack hates you :) |
| 19:20:57 | <koz_> | merijn: This. |
| 19:21:10 | <tomsmeding> | I figured :p |
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| 19:23:33 | <tomsmeding> | ah I see, with that command the Setup executable gets the following flags: |
| 19:23:34 | <tomsmeding> | --ghc-options --RTS --ghc-options +RTS --ghc-options -s --ghc-options -RTS |
| 19:24:02 | <tomsmeding> | the --RTS gets eaten by Setup's RTS, then the 2nd --ghc-options is a ghc option, and +RTS is taken as a build target |
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| 19:24:09 | <tomsmeding> | I'm not even sure whether it's possible to do this |
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| 19:24:42 | <tomsmeding> | oh! |
| 19:24:50 | <tomsmeding> | sm[m]: you were correct of course |
| 19:24:56 | <tomsmeding> | it does option splitting! |
| 19:25:04 | <tomsmeding> | $ stack build --RTS --ghc-options='+RTS -s -RTS' |
| 19:25:05 | <tomsmeding> | et voila |
| 19:25:28 | hackage | snap-loader-dynamic 1.0.0.2 - Snap dynamic loader https://hackage.haskell.org/package/snap-loader-dynamic-1.0.0.2 (GregoryCollins) |
| 19:25:29 | <tomsmeding> | so it's impossible to pass an option containing a space to GHC via --ghc-options |
| 19:25:46 | geekosaur | wonders if backslash would work. or the other quote |
| 19:26:08 | <sm[m]> | I never use --RTS.. why's it needed again ? |
| 19:26:11 | <geekosaur> | that said, an option containing a space is to say the least user-hostile |
| 19:26:22 | <tomsmeding> | sm[m]: because it isn't |
| 19:26:28 | <tomsmeding> | and I accidentally left it in |
| 19:26:28 | hackage | snap 1.1.3.1, snap-loader-static 1.0.0.1 (GregoryCollins): https://qbin.io/ambien-world-4ruv |
| 19:26:33 | <tomsmeding> | good catch |
| 19:26:34 | <geekosaur> | to keep stack's own RTS from eating the RTS flags. but in this case that shouldn't be possible any more |
| 19:26:39 | <tomsmeding> | indeed |
| 19:27:11 | <tomsmeding> | oh well, next time |
| 19:27:35 | <tomsmeding> | I guess I was assuming too much regularity in stack's option parsing |
| 19:28:17 | <geekosaur> | or overthinking things |
| 19:28:25 | <tomsmeding> | that it would correctly remember the type of whatever string it was handling, whether it is shell syntax (thus spaces separating options) or a single option (thus spaces going into the command-line argument) |
| 19:28:25 | <tomsmeding> | :p |
| 19:28:43 | <tomsmeding> | geekosaur: that's my forté |
| 19:29:08 | <sm[m]> | overthinking is kind of unavoidable when trying to pass tricky flags down through several layers of not necessarily cooperating tools :) |
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| 19:30:39 | <sm[m]> | I've been trying to decipher the stack build -v output. I see it runs Cabal-simple_mPHDZzAJ_3.2.0.0_ghc-8.10.2 configure, then Cabal-simple_mPHDZzAJ_3.2.0.0_ghc-8.10.2 build, and it's the configure command that gets the --ghc-options we specified, right tomsmeding |
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| 19:31:43 | <sm[m]> | so eg just now I got essentially: Cabal configure --ghc-options\ |
| 19:31:43 | <sm[m]> | "-fforce-recomp +RTS -M500m -RTS"; Cabal build --ghc-options "" |
| 19:32:23 | <sm[m]> | I haven't used cabal configure for so long, but hopefully that does the right thing |
| 19:32:50 | <sm[m]> | well actually I don't see how it would |
| 19:34:04 | <tomsmeding> | :D |
| 19:34:15 | <sm[m]> | no, I do see. cabal configure has --PROG-options=OPTS. If I add a deeper level of verbosity I guess I'd see the ghc command |
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| 19:36:24 | <sm[m]> | yes this is more useful than -v: stack build --ghc-options='+RTS -M500m -RTS' --cabal-verbose |
| 19:36:58 | <tomsmeding> | the actual ghc invocation also gets the flags |
| 19:37:24 | <tomsmeding> | it invokes ghc about a bazillion times, by the way |
| 19:38:18 | <sm[m]> | my ghc invocation is like: .../ghc --make -no-link ... '+RTS' -M500m -RTS -fhide-source-paths |
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| 19:38:39 | <tomsmeding> | same here |
| 19:38:45 | <tomsmeding> | does indeed look it's working |
| 19:39:09 | <sm[m]> | now, I've found that -M is more of a suggestion than a hard limit, but I think it can help |
| 19:39:51 | <tomsmeding> | I think I'm going to delay testing that until I have to build aeson again |
| 19:40:04 | <tomsmeding> | at least now I know how to actually properly get arguments to ghc :) |
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| 19:41:34 | <geekosaur> | write it down so you don't forget by then :) |
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| 19:43:12 | <tomsmeding> | good idea |
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| 19:46:31 | <beka> | anyone have experience using the indent parser tools of megaparsec? |
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| 20:02:58 | <dsal> | I have used it. It wasn't my favorite experience, but I made it work. |
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| 20:43:40 | <eflister> | i want to IO in the WhenMatched of Map.mergeA. is this impossible because it's only applicative? why no mergeM? |
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| 20:45:51 | <merijn> | eflister: IO is an Applicative, though? |
| 20:46:05 | <merijn> | eflister: All Monads are also applicatives |
| 20:46:34 | <eflister> | merijn: yeah i was hoping it would work for that reason but it seems not to be. i'll make a paste |
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| 20:49:01 | <LambdaDuck> | > foldr1 (+) [a,b,c,d] |
| 20:49:05 | <lambdabot> | a + (b + (c + d)) |
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| 21:02:13 | <tomsmeding> | wait is that a special case in lambdabot? |
| 21:02:34 | <dolio> | No. |
| 21:02:46 | <dolio> | @type a |
| 21:02:48 | <lambdabot> | Expr |
| 21:02:51 | <tomsmeding> | ah |
| 21:03:00 | <tomsmeding> | neat |
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| 21:03:56 | <merijn> | @hackage simple-reflect |
| 21:03:56 | <lambdabot> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/simple-reflect |
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| 21:37:26 | <MagBo> | Do we have an example of Network.WebSockets working with new Servant.Streaming? |
| 21:38:09 | <MagBo> | I'd like to take the streaming cookbook from [here](https://docs.servant.dev/en/stable/cookbook/basic-streaming/Streaming.html) and make the countdown work over wss |
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| 21:44:55 | <kicov> | Hi, I just wanted to ask wheter it is possible to use liquid haskell to check for array# size - how are primops treated ? sizeofArray# is unbound - is there some other way to check for array size ? |
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| 21:48:32 | <dolio> | I think you'll probably need to introduce some higher level concept, because the arrays you want to prove things about don't exist statically. |
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| 21:49:55 | <dolio> | For instance, I was told once that vector-algorithms had been verified with liquid haskell, but without verifying vector. There were just assumptions defined about how the vector operations worked. |
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| 21:53:42 | <beka> | dsal: do you have any recommendations for making a haskell-style parser? im running into a whole slew of confusing issues that i don't understand :( |
| 21:54:08 | <kicov> | dolio: Oh, okay, so we have an API, and based on the API we assume what happens on the inside. Okay... I'd need to read more - about the measures and how they are stored, and how to modify these based on API calls. |
| 21:54:40 | <[exa]> | beka: the indents are a bit confusing because of the relatively high number of possibilities there |
| 21:54:51 | <[exa]> | beka: by "haskell style" you mean "blocks as in python" right? |
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| 21:55:14 | <dsal> | beka: I normally don't do indent-based parsing because it's kind of hard. Normal parsing with clear begin and end is a lot easier to do unambiguously. |
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| 21:58:28 | <dolio> | kicov: Yeah. I don't know the details myself. It's possible you can even specify how you want it to treat those primops. But I wouldn't necessarily expect it to already know how they behave. |
| 21:59:18 | <dolio> | And specifying the primops might not even be the best place to start. |
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| 22:04:58 | hackage | composite-tuple 0.1.2.0 - Tuple functions for composite records. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/composite-tuple-0.1.2.0 (locallycompact) |
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| 22:09:15 | <kicov> | Does liquid haskell support annotations with context ? As in: |
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| 22:09:48 | <kicov> | there's f, and inside f there's g which uses f's variables - can we check on these too ? |
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| 22:10:06 | <kicov> | (i mean g annotation making a check based on f's annotation) |
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| 22:15:57 | hackage | fused-effects-th 0.1.0.2 - Template Haskell helpers for fused-effects. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/fused-effects-th-0.1.0.2 (patrick_thomson) |
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| 22:54:23 | <lyxia> | kicov: I think so, but you can also try it out for yourself on their site. |
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| 22:59:57 | hackage | polysemy-http 0.2.0.4 - Polysemy effect for http-client https://hackage.haskell.org/package/polysemy-http-0.2.0.4 (tek) |
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| 23:01:06 | <DekuDekuplex> | Hello. |
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| 23:01:55 | <ski> | hello DekuDekuplex |
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| 23:02:25 | <DekuDekuplex> | I seem to have a problem in adding my community to the list of Haskell communities. Let me dig up which list now.... |
| 23:05:13 | <DekuDekuplex> | Ah, this page: https://www.haskell.org/community/ |
| 23:06:28 | <DekuDekuplex> | Last year, I tried to add my TheTundra Haskell-Beginners community (back when "TheTundra" was known as "pashPost") to this list by adding a request on GitHub to update it, but nothing happened. |
| 23:06:46 | <DekuDekuplex> | It's been over a year since last April, when I first submitted that request. |
| 23:07:02 | <DekuDekuplex> | What's going on? |
| 23:08:36 | <DekuDekuplex> | Ah, just looked up the term on GitHub: pull request. Yes, I submitted a pull request back then, but nobody responded. I can't update that list myself. |
| 23:08:53 | <ski> | hm, i dunno who to get in touch with |
| 23:09:23 | <ski> | perhaps you could also try asking in #haskell-infrastructure, though i'm not sure whether that channel is relevant |
| 23:09:39 | <DekuDekuplex> | If you take a look at https://github.com/haskell-infra/www.haskell.org/pulls, you can see one at the bottom by |
| 23:09:45 | <DekuDekuplex> | "DekuDekuplex." |
| 23:09:49 | <DekuDekuplex> | That's mine. |
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| 23:10:13 | <frdg`> | what exactly is an Entity in Database.Persist? To this point I have always just thrown away the Entity but now I am instead updating data. |
| 23:10:16 | <DekuDekuplex> | Ah, it's dated May 31, 2019, not last April. Sorry. It was last May, not last April. |
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| 23:11:16 | <ski> | (maybe it's related to "entity", as in Entity-Relationship (E-R) diagrams) |
| 23:11:47 | <frdg`> | I have not heard of those |
| 23:12:16 | <ski> | it's a modelling tool, for database schema design |
| 23:12:19 | <DekuDekuplex> | However, for some reason, two other pull requests since then have responses, but not mine. What's going on? |
| 23:12:52 | <ski> | perhaps there's also some mailing list that you could try |
| 23:13:38 | <frdg`> | nice thank you. |
| 23:13:49 | <DekuDekuplex> | Isn't there someone here, or someone I could write to in e-mail, who can update that list? |
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| 23:14:36 | <DekuDekuplex> | There used to be a HaskellWiki page that I could update, but for some reason, somehow that page was moved to GitHub, which I can't update. |
| 23:14:47 | <ski> | there might be, but i have no clue who that would be |
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| 23:16:14 | <ski> | you could also try asking at another time, when there's more people around .. |
| 23:16:53 | <DekuDekuplex> | That sounds like a good idea. What time is it over there now? I'm writing from Japan; it's 8:16 AM here now. |
| 23:17:25 | <frdg`> | its a different time everywhere |
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| 23:18:15 | <DekuDekuplex> | When is a good time to ask about adding a community to https://www.haskell.org/community/ here? |
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| 23:22:31 | <ski> | in Europe and Africa, it's after midnight. in the Americas, it's afternoon, or possibly evening |
| 23:22:35 | <DekuDekuplex> | What's really strange about the list of pull requests for https://www.haskell.org/community/ is that there are only 3 open requests, and there have been responses to the 2 other pull requests, but not mine. |
| 23:22:39 | <sm[m]> | DekuDekuplex: I guess activity is highest around 1700 UTC or so |
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| 23:23:01 | <DekuDekuplex> | 1700 UTC. Okay. |
| 23:23:40 | <sm[m]> | you could send a Ping to your PR, possibly tagging the names of repo owner / PR mergers |
| 23:23:48 | <DekuDekuplex> | Okay. That would be 2 AM local time here in Japan. |
| 23:24:05 | <DekuDekuplex> | Since I'm a night owl, that would fit my schedule. |
| 23:24:43 | <DekuDekuplex> | All right, I'll try to ask again here at 2 AM or so sometime in the next few days. |
| 23:25:15 | <DekuDekuplex> | I just hope that my request isn't being deliberately ignored. |
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| 23:26:10 | <DekuDekuplex> | Back when I tried to create my original community back on Google+, some folks asked me to delete it to merge the users into the other Google+ Haskell community, but I wanted to create one specifically for beginners. |
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| 23:26:54 | <DekuDekuplex> | However, Google scuttled Google+ last April, and that causes both communities to disappear. |
| 23:27:00 | <sm[m]> | eg @TikhonJelvis |
| 23:27:01 | <DekuDekuplex> | causes -> caused |
| 23:27:43 | <DekuDekuplex> | Therefore, I re-created mine on TheTundra (then "pashPost"), and submitted a pull request to have it listed at https://www.haskell.org/community/. |
| 23:28:07 | <DekuDekuplex> | However, nobody seemed to pay any attention to that pull request, and that list still has not been updated. |
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| 23:28:43 | <DekuDekuplex> | That makes it more difficult to attract Haskellites to my beginners-oriented Haskell community. |
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| 23:30:18 | <DekuDekuplex> | I did advertise it on Haskell-Cafe, Haskell-Beginners, and reddit. |
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| 23:31:23 | <DekuDekuplex> | There isn't anything wrong with adding a new community to https://www.haskell.org/community/, is there? |
| 23:31:23 | <sm[m]> | DekuDekuplex: it's not deliberate, people are just busy and not actively checking all repos. Send an inquiry to the pr, so they'll get a new email notification |
| 23:31:36 | <DekuDekuplex> | That's good to hear. |
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| 23:32:30 | <DekuDekuplex> | I was afraid that someone from the old Haskell community back on Google+ who had wanted me to delete my Haskell-Beginners Google+ community might have some resentment for my not deleting my community, and not want me to advertise it. |
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| 23:34:02 | <sm[m]> | too early to assume malice, incompetence is more likely :) |
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| 23:34:42 | <DekuDekuplex> | I used to be an undergraduate in one of Paul Hudak's formal semantics courses back in circa 1993, and used to audit one of his classes back in college in Haskell. |
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| 23:34:56 | <sm[m]> | generally the next step with an ignored pr is to follow up with a few more comments, perhaps tagging specific maintainer names |
| 23:35:07 | <DekuDekuplex> | He used to give great lectures on Haskell and functional programming. |
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| 23:35:29 | <sm[m]> | Nice! I bet |
| 23:35:38 | <DekuDekuplex> | Unfortunately, Hudak passed away a few years ago. |
| 23:35:48 | <DekuDekuplex> | That was most unfortunate. |
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| 23:36:15 | <sm[m]> | I have his book |
| 23:36:45 | <DekuDekuplex> | Actually, so do it. It's the one on multimedia programming in Haskell. |
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| 23:36:50 | <DekuDekuplex> | it -> I |
| 23:37:01 | <DekuDekuplex> | School of Expression. |
| 23:37:12 | <DekuDekuplex> | Yes, the Haskell School of Expression. |
| 23:37:57 | <DekuDekuplex> | He used to play in a jazz band back in New Haven. I actually once attended one of his performances. |
| 23:39:15 | <DekuDekuplex> | Hudak was especially enthusiastic about functional programming, and about using the original functional style of writing programs, as opposed to the monadic style. |
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| 23:40:08 | → | falafel joins (~falafel@2605:e000:1527:d491:f090:20fe:cddf:2a1a) |
| 23:40:12 | <sm[m]> | Interesting |
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| 23:41:34 | <DekuDekuplex> | One of Hudak's interesting posts on Haskell-Cafe was "a regressive view of support for imperative programming in Haskell" (see https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2007-August/030178.html). |
| 23:41:55 | <DekuDekuplex> | He didn't like the do-notation. |
| 23:42:31 | <DekuDekuplex> | Instead, he wanted to use the |
| 23:42:32 | <DekuDekuplex> | cmd1 >>= \x-> |
| 23:42:32 | <DekuDekuplex> | cmd2 >>= \y-> |
| 23:42:32 | <DekuDekuplex> | ... |
| 23:42:32 | <DekuDekuplex> | return e |
| 23:42:43 | <DekuDekuplex> | return e |
| 23:42:48 | <DekuDekuplex> | notation. |
| 23:43:06 | <DekuDekuplex> | (Please ignore the last "return e" expression.) |
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| 23:44:44 | <DekuDekuplex> | Somebody responded to my pull request! Apparently, it has some broken link problem or other. Let me check now.... |
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| 23:46:47 | <DekuDekuplex> | Ah, I see. The original URL for my community was changed by TheTundra. Here is the new one: https://thetundra.com/interests/tech/groups/haskell-the-haskell-beginners-community |
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| 23:47:10 | <DekuDekuplex> | Let me add a comment about that to my pull request.... |
| 23:48:25 | <DekuDekuplex> | Comment added. |
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| 23:52:00 | <DekuDekuplex> | Okay; I have just additionally submitted an updated pull request with the updated URL. |
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| 23:55:23 | <DekuDekuplex> | At this point, I guess I'll just see what happens and try logging back in here at approximately 1700 UTC or so. |
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| 23:56:18 | <DekuDekuplex> | Thanks! I'll see what happens now. I need to log off. See you later! |
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All times are in UTC on 2020-09-18.