Logs on 2020-09-27 (freenode/#haskell)
| 00:00:01 | × | kaimi1 quits (~kaimi@178.239.168.171) () |
| 00:00:12 | <javran> | I actually haven't been in this channel for a while so my lambdabot knowledge is rotten. |
| 00:00:28 | <xsperry> | I can't imagine someone not knowing how to use IO monad but knowing the purpose of monad transformers |
| 00:00:36 | <todaysTomorrow> | xsperry like many people I have been using the IO monad without knowing |
| 00:00:51 | <todaysTomorrow> | xsperry for two reasons that doesn't apply to me |
| 00:01:32 | → | cr3 joins (~cr3@192-222-143-195.qc.cable.ebox.net) |
| 00:01:32 | <todaysTomorrow> | I suffer from brain damage I may suddenly remember the IO monad and monad transformers and be able to teach you a thing or two ;-) |
| 00:03:33 | <javran> | well it's hard to come up with examples that can fit into a single line, let's see.. do you know Either? |
| 00:04:27 | <todaysTomorrow> | I remember from a few years ago using it. Let's all pretend I don't know anything about it |
| 00:05:13 | <todaysTomorrow> | how do I use hoogle? |
| 00:05:32 | × | ChaiTRex quits (~ChaiTRex@gateway/tor-sasl/chaitrex) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 00:05:58 | <javran> | @let notPositive x = if x <= 0 then Right x else Left "not positive" |
| 00:06:00 | <lambdabot> | Defined. |
| 00:06:28 | <javran> | @let notNegative x = if x >= 0 then Right x else Left "not negative" |
| 00:06:29 | <lambdabot> | Defined. |
| 00:06:38 | <javran> | > notPositive 1 |
| 00:06:41 | <lambdabot> | Left "not positive" |
| 00:06:47 | <javran> | > notPositive (-2) |
| 00:06:49 | <lambdabot> | Right (-2) |
| 00:06:56 | → | ChaiTRex joins (~ChaiTRex@gateway/tor-sasl/chaitrex) |
| 00:07:03 | <todaysTomorrow> | Oh yes! I remember using this. I made a tree with either a long time ago |
| 00:07:20 | <javran> | just like that, it's Maybe but you can give a bit more information about what was wrong as Left |
| 00:07:24 | → | remexre joins (~nathan@207-153-38-50.fttp.usinternet.com) |
| 00:08:35 | <todaysTomorrow> | seems very useful for defining you're own data type |
| 00:08:42 | <javran> | now say you want to put those two computations together to stop at first error and report what was wrong, that's Except |
| 00:08:52 | <todaysTomorrow> | ! |
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| 00:09:15 | <javran> | :t liftEither |
| 00:09:16 | <lambdabot> | MonadError e m => Either e a -> m a |
| 00:10:20 | <javran> | @let onlyZero x = liftEither (notPositive x) >>= (liftEither . notNegative) |
| 00:10:22 | <lambdabot> | Defined. |
| 00:10:29 | <javran> | > onlyZero (-1) |
| 00:10:31 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 00:10:31 | <lambdabot> | • Ambiguous type variable ‘m0’ arising from a use of ‘show_M877596031243... |
| 00:10:31 | <lambdabot> | prevents the constraint ‘(Show (m0 Integer))’ from being solved. |
| 00:10:45 | <javran> | > onlyZero (-1) :: Except String Int |
| 00:10:48 | <lambdabot> | ExceptT (Identity (Left "not negative")) |
| 00:10:56 | <javran> | > onlyZero 3 :: Except String Int |
| 00:10:58 | <lambdabot> | ExceptT (Identity (Left "not positive")) |
| 00:11:04 | <todaysTomorrow> | "is there a function directly from Maybe to Except? I know I can do it with maybeToEither and liftEither, it's too verbose to my liking." |
| 00:11:05 | <javran> | > onlyZero 0 :: Except String Int |
| 00:11:07 | <lambdabot> | ExceptT (Identity (Right 0)) |
| 00:12:08 | <javran> | if you totally ignore ExceptT and Identity, it's simple. |
| 00:12:58 | <javran> | those are monad transformer machinery |
| 00:13:39 | <todaysTomorrow> | http://book.realworldhaskell.org/read/monad-transformers.html |
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| 00:17:09 | <todaysTomorrow> | Excuse me, it seems like we're abdononing a problem that needs to be solved |
| 00:17:49 | <javran> | like what |
| 00:19:24 | <javran> | if you meant my original question, I ended up just defining my own m2e function, it just bothers me a bit that there isn't an utility function for doing exactly that with fewer typing. |
| 00:20:19 | <todaysTomorrow> | Yes javran is your problem resolved? |
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| 00:21:20 | <javran> | technically it's already solved, I'm only wondering if there is a better way |
| 00:21:52 | <todaysTomorrow> | How are you trying to influence the world? |
| 00:22:10 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 00:23:40 | <javran> | oh actually, I'm wondering if I can just coerce that |
| 00:24:38 | <todaysTomorrow> | I don't understand what you mean |
| 00:25:37 | <javran> | well.. coercion is kinda advanced topic i guess |
| 00:26:18 | <todaysTomorrow> | Want to know what I've been working on? javran? |
| 00:26:33 | <int-e> | . o O ( unsafeBlackmail ) |
| 00:27:38 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 00:28:11 | javran | was just wondering, if ExceptT is just newtype Either, that should allow me to do some safe coercion as they are representationally identical |
| 00:30:34 | <todaysTomorrow> | I've been working on making a very specific form of programming using haskell elm seL4 emacs and coq to produce formally verified code |
| 00:31:45 | <MarcelineVQ> | ExceptT e m a is a newtype but not a newtype of Either, it's a newtype of m (Either e a) |
| 00:31:46 | <todaysTomorrow> | I'm more interested in writing a system for a team of programmers to use rather than actually creating an open source application |
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| 00:37:13 | <javran> | I did it, albeit it looks silly - at this point I'm just curious: e where |
| 00:37:13 | <javran> | 3 |
| 00:37:19 | <javran> | https://gist.github.com/Javran/aef0895f58048e1234b883afc8623f32 |
| 00:37:53 | <javran> | MarcelineVQ: yes. But if the base is Identity, I think that's still doable |
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| 01:00:27 | hackage | map-reduce-folds 0.1.0.5 - foldl wrappers for map-reduce https://hackage.haskell.org/package/map-reduce-folds-0.1.0.5 (adamCS) |
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| 01:16:27 | hackage | Frames-map-reduce 0.4.0.0 - Frames wrapper for map-reduce-folds and some extra folds helpers. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Frames-map-reduce-0.4.0.0 (adamCS) |
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| 01:50:58 | hackage | tasty-mgolden 0.0.2 - Golden testing provider for tasty with muti-line diff output https://hackage.haskell.org/package/tasty-mgolden-0.0.2 (mbj) |
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| 02:03:44 | <p0a> | hello in [(i,j) | i<-[1..3], j<-[1..3], i < j], am I guaranteed the order in which the tuples are ordered in the resulting list? |
| 02:05:41 | <ski> | yes |
| 02:06:23 | <ski> | > [(i,j) | i <- [1 .. 3],j <- [1 .. 3],i < j] |
| 02:06:26 | <lambdabot> | [(1,2),(1,3),(2,3)] |
| 02:06:33 | <ski> | > [(i,j) | i <- [1 .. 3],j <- [1 .. j-1]] |
| 02:06:35 | <lambdabot> | *Exception: not an integer: j - 1 |
| 02:06:45 | <ski> | ah, right |
| 02:06:55 | <p0a> | that's a typo |
| 02:06:57 | <ski> | > [(i,j) | i <- [1 .. 3],j <- [i+1 .. 3]] |
| 02:06:59 | <lambdabot> | [(1,2),(1,3),(2,3)] |
| 02:07:13 | <p0a> | I see your point |
| 02:07:15 | <ski> | > [(i,j) | i <- [1 .. j-1],j <- [1 .. 3]] |
| 02:07:17 | <lambdabot> | *Exception: not an integer: j - 1 |
| 02:07:38 | <ski> | hmpf, that error comes from another `j' that is in scope |
| 02:07:45 | <ski> | > let j = () in [(i,j) | i <- [1 .. j-1],j <- [1 .. 3]] |
| 02:07:47 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 02:07:47 | <lambdabot> | • Could not deduce (Num ()) arising from the literal ‘1’ |
| 02:07:47 | <lambdabot> | from the context: (Num b, Enum b) |
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| 02:08:20 | <ski> | anyway, the `j' from `j <- [1 .. 3]' is not in scope in `i <- [1 .. j-1]', so you can't use `j' there |
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| 02:08:49 | <p0a> | yeah |
| 02:09:01 | <ski> | but the `i' from `i <- [1 .. 3]' is in scope in the `j <- [1 .. 3],i < j' part (and the initial `(i,j)') part, so you could replace that generator part by `j <- [i+1 .. 3]' |
| 02:09:52 | <ski> | and the order you get for `[(i,j) | i <- [1 .. 3],j <- [1 .. 3]]' is still the same order. `i' is the "outer loop", `j' is the "inner loop" (whose bounds are allowed to depend on the index `i' of the outer loop) |
| 02:10:45 | <ski> | or, if you think of this in terms of enumerating cells in a matrix, then `i' is row index, `j' is column index. and different rows are allowed to have different lengths |
| 02:11:00 | <p0a> | yeah, right |
| 02:11:25 | <ski> | > [[(i,j) | j <- [i+1 .. 3]] | i <- [1 .. 3]] |
| 02:11:27 | <lambdabot> | [[(1,2),(1,3)],[(2,3)],[]] |
| 02:11:33 | <ski> | > concat [[(i,j) | j <- [i+1 .. 3]] | i <- [1 .. 3]] |
| 02:11:35 | <lambdabot> | [(1,2),(1,3),(2,3)] |
| 02:11:54 | <ski> | @undo [(i,j) | i <- [1 .. 3],j <- [i+1 .. 3]] |
| 02:11:55 | <lambdabot> | concatMap (\ i -> concatMap (\ j -> [(i, j)]) [i + 1 .. 3]) [1 .. 3] |
| 02:11:59 | <p0a> | So that's an implementation I guess, eh |
| 02:12:03 | <ski> | @undo [(i,j) | i <- [1 .. 3],j <- [i .. 3],i < j] |
| 02:12:04 | <lambdabot> | concatMap (\ i -> concatMap (\ j -> if i < j then [(i, j)] else []) [i .. 3]) [1 .. 3] |
| 02:12:23 | <p0a> | okay makes sense |
| 02:13:25 | <ski> | the `[[(i,j) | j <- [i+1 .. 3]] | i <- [1 .. 3]]' shows what to do, if you wanted a list of lists (each being a row, in the above image), rather than a single list with all pairs in it (the result of `concat' on the list of lists) |
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| 02:14:42 | <p0a> | sure |
| 02:15:02 | <p0a> | well that's not what I want, but I see how that is superior in the sense that concatMap gives you the other one |
| 02:15:22 | <p0a> | it's a forgetful functor! |
| 02:15:25 | p0a | runs |
| 02:15:30 | <ski> | hm |
| 02:16:00 | <ski> | anyway, earlier generators in a list comprehension vary more slowly than later generators |
| 02:16:25 | <p0a> | right |
| 02:17:42 | <p0a> | thank you! |
| 02:18:01 | <p0a> | One more question, it seems that variable name clashes can happen often in Haskell right? |
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| 02:18:13 | <p0a> | Unless everything is qualified, if an import changes in the future, it may clash |
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| 02:19:19 | <monochrom> | You can use explicit imports "import M(a, b, c)" to limit it. |
| 02:20:13 | <p0a> | That's a good point, thank you |
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| 02:21:59 | <ski> | p0a : if there's an ambiguity, it'll tell you, so you can qualify the name by the module name (or alias) that you imported the identifier from |
| 02:24:31 | <ski> | (if the ambiguity is between an imported identifier, and an identifier defined at top-level in the current module, then if you import the identifier qualified, then the plain (unqualified) identifier will refer to the one defined in the current module. and i suppose you don't even need to import qualified, if the identifier is locally bound) |
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| 02:49:08 | <p0a> | For example I am trying to use `sum' |
| 02:49:24 | <p0a> | but it is defined in Numeric.Matrix. But that is a hidden module? |
| 02:49:57 | hackage | mtsl 0.1.0.0 - Reified monad transformer stacks https://hackage.haskell.org/package/mtsl-0.1.0.0 (sgschlesinger) |
| 02:50:24 | <p0a> | How do I see where sum is also defined? I don't think I want either of the suggestions (one is Data.Complex and the other is GHC.Num) |
| 02:50:34 | <p0a> | and of course the one I mentioned |
| 02:51:07 | <p0a> | The line I have is `trace = sum . toList . takeDiag', which is supposed to give me the trace of a matrix |
| 02:52:21 | <p0a> | Huh, I guess the pointfree style was confusing GHC, (or rather, confusing me). I changed it and now it works fine |
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| 02:52:46 | <p0a> | Not sure why `f x = g x' and `f = g' would be so different |
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| 03:32:27 | hackage | metro 0.1.0.3 - A simple tcp and udp socket server framework https://hackage.haskell.org/package/metro-0.1.0.3 (Lupino) |
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| 03:34:51 | <orzo> | I'm debuging a space leak and -hy shows me BLACKHOLE is a big cost. I have no threads in this application. What does this mean? |
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| 03:44:22 | <hololeap> | does it sound like p0a ran into the monomorphism restriction? |
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| 04:07:03 | <BalterNotz> | hi |
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| 04:09:34 | <justsomeguy> | I have a stupid theoretical question: Are data types (such as sum types and their related functions) finite state machines? (I got the idea from here... http://raganwald.com/2018/02/23/forde.html) |
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| 04:10:41 | <justsomeguy> | (For context, I'm new to strongly typed programming; Currently reading haskellbook; and entertaining myself tonight by pondering what a type is exactly and drinking beer.) |
| 04:12:30 | <justsomeguy> | What would you say a type is? |
| 04:13:12 | <fraktor> | What is a type? A miserable little pile of data. |
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| 04:13:58 | hackage | errata 0.2.0.0 - Source code error pretty printing https://hackage.haskell.org/package/errata-0.2.0.0 (comp) |
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| 04:14:28 | <fraktor> | I don't quite understand how a type is a finite state machine. It certainly has "finite states" (although the types associated with those states can be infinite, as in a String), but there aren't really transitions. |
| 04:15:22 | <fraktor> | I see now that you included "related functions" in your definition, and I would say in FP-land, those aren't really "part" of the type. The particular pairing of data and behavior like that is more OO IMO. |
| 04:15:52 | <justsomeguy> | I guess that in my view functions that act on a data type are part of the type. In that case, the functions describe permissible state transitions. |
| 04:16:17 | <justsomeguy> | ...but only conceptually. |
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| 04:18:36 | <justsomeguy> | Which is pretty much what you just said, but I'd pressed enter just as your comment appeared. Otherwise I'd have left that unsaid. |
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| 04:19:13 | justsomeguy | is a kind of a slow typist |
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| 04:21:32 | <fraktor> | Nah you're good :) |
| 04:22:05 | <fraktor> | I would say that using types and associated functions to build state machines is perfectly correct, but those functions are not part of the type. |
| 04:22:25 | <justsomeguy> | That sounds reasonable. |
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| 04:22:32 | <dsal> | A type is more like a set of possible values. A sum type adds to of those sets together. A product type multiplies them together. Probably something about burritos as well. |
| 04:22:36 | <dolio> | How is `data Peano = Zero | Suc Peano` a finite state machine? |
| 04:23:17 | <dsal> | s/to of// -- not sure what happened there. |
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| 04:25:45 | <justsomeguy> | I suppose that would be an infinite type! |
| 04:25:57 | <dolio> | It has infinite things in it, yeah. |
| 04:26:20 | <justsomeguy> | I haven't yet figured out how to calculate the carnality of types, yet. |
| 04:26:46 | <justsomeguy> | :g/ yet /d |
| 04:26:55 | <dolio> | Infinitely many, even. Even in languages where the values themselves aren't infinite. |
| 04:27:55 | <solonarv> | it is actually fairly simple |
| 04:28:25 | <solonarv> | '|' becomes '+', constructors with multiple fields become products |
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| 04:29:05 | <solonarv> | e.g. 'data Foo = X Int Bool | Y Word8' becomes 'Foo = Int * Bool + Word8' |
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| 04:29:40 | <solonarv> | substituting in the numbers for those: 'Foo = 2^64 * 2 + 2^8', and the rest is arithmetic |
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| 04:30:00 | <dsal> | justsomeguy: Well, you can calculate cardinality of types at some point, but a product type of two lists is ∞*∞ whereas a sum type of two lists is just ∞+∞ |
| 04:30:15 | <justsomeguy> | If you have a type like “Peano = Zero | Suc Peano”, is the carnality (1 * infinity) + 1? |
| 04:30:36 | <dolio> | Infinite cardinalities get kind of ill behaved in constructive settings, though. |
| 04:31:37 | <dsal> | Yeah. A more practical way to think of it is, e.g. what `Maybe t` does to `t`. It increases the cardinality by 1. Whereas you had all of the values of `t` before, now you have the same values + `Nothing` |
| 04:33:28 | <dsal> | `Either a b` can contain any value of type `b` or any value of type `a`, so the total number of values it can contain is the sum of the cardinality of those two. |
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| 04:34:06 | <dsal> | A product type `t` like `t a b` can contain a value of `b` for every value of `a` |
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| 04:37:13 | <justsomeguy> | Oh man, this beer is so good. Blueberry maple stout -- it's like I'm drinking a blueberry pancake. |
| 04:37:39 | <justsomeguy> | Agh, that sounds awful, lol. |
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| 05:11:45 | <koz_> | Something something I wrote a whole library for calculating the cardinality of finitary types. |
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| 05:13:41 | <solonarv> | justsomeguy: for a recursive type, you end up with an equation like Peano = 1 + Peano; solve it and the solution is indeed Peano = ∞ |
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| 05:14:24 | <justsomeguy> | Interesting! |
| 05:14:29 | <koz_> | solonarv: Yay for the weird and wonderful world of infinity, where ordinars and cardinals no longer line up. |
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| 05:16:18 | <justsomeguy> | (One question I've had is: If you have a set of 0..-Inf and a set of 1..+inf, is the superset of both of them larger than either of the member sets?) |
| 05:16:29 | <koz_> | justsomeguy: What do you mean by 'larger'? |
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| 05:16:48 | <justsomeguy> | ...huh, I don't know. I guess the cardinality of the set. |
| 05:17:01 | <solonarv> | in that case they are the same size, because there is a bijection between them |
| 05:17:12 | <koz_> | Yep, that's exactly right. |
| 05:17:30 | <koz_> | The only notion of 'size' sets admit is bijection. |
| 05:17:55 | <justsomeguy> | Is a bijection a one-to-one correspondence? |
| 05:17:56 | <koz_> | So therefore, a set which can be bijected with N (i.e. the natural numbers) has the same cardinality as any other such set. |
| 05:17:59 | <koz_> | justsomeguy: Yep. |
| 05:17:59 | <solonarv> | yes |
| 05:18:08 | <koz_> | More precisely, a function that is both one-to-one and onto. |
| 05:18:18 | <koz_> | (or 'injective and surjective' if you prefer) |
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| 05:18:20 | <solonarv> | if the sets have additional structure (such as an ordering) then you can talk about more fine-grained size distinctions |
| 05:18:30 | <solonarv> | this is the difference between cardinals and ordinals, sort of |
| 05:18:36 | <koz_> | solonarv: Technically _all_ sets have an ordering. |
| 05:18:42 | <koz_> | (thanks, well-ordering theorem!) |
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| 05:19:03 | <solonarv> | right but you have to pick one and that affects which other ordered sets they're the same size as |
| 05:19:21 | <koz_> | Yeah, then sure. That's where ordinals come in. |
| 05:19:40 | <koz_> | Because while omega + 1 and omega + 2 have the same cardinality, they're different ordinals. |
| 05:19:44 | <koz_> | Because infinity is weird. |
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| 05:21:31 | <koz_> | (I also love that technically, due to AC, all sets are well-ordered, but the ordering is not specified) |
| 05:21:40 | <koz_> | (since we can only assert that it exists, not what it is) |
| 05:21:47 | <koz_> | (thanks, non-constructive axioms...) |
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| 05:26:11 | <dolio> | Ordering isn't size, though. |
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| 05:27:37 | <dolio> | Like, when you consider the additional structure, it isn't affecting the size. |
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| 05:30:19 | <petersen> | dminuoso: right but somehow it is giving me a CPP error |
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| 05:36:14 | <nshepperd> | solonarv: what's an example of a notion of size that depends on ordering? |
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| 05:36:59 | <solonarv> | "which ordinal is this this order-isomorphic to?" |
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| 05:37:39 | <solonarv> | the ordinals are ordered (obviously), so this gives you a notion of size that is more fine-grained than cardinality |
| 05:37:40 | <nshepperd> | is that like defining 'same size' = 'there exists a order preserving bijection'? |
| 05:37:48 | <solonarv> | hm, yes, I think so |
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| 05:39:17 | <nshepperd> | interesting |
| 05:39:43 | <solonarv> | this is "finer-grained" in that if two ordered sets are the same size by this definition, then they are also the same size if you forget the ordering and look for any bijection |
| 05:41:17 | <nshepperd> | so like the rational numbers are bigger than the natural numbers in that sense, because any two rational numbers has one between them |
| 05:41:37 | <nshepperd> | the rational numebrs with the standard ordering that is |
| 05:41:46 | <dolio> | The usual ordering on the rationals isn't a well-order. |
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| 05:42:30 | <nshepperd> | does it have to be a well order |
| 05:42:42 | <dolio> | If you want it to be an ordinal. |
| 05:44:03 | <dolio> | I mean, I don't think the ordinal ordering is usually considered to be "size" either. That is reserved for cardinality. |
| 05:46:58 | hackage | unboxing-vector 0.2.0.0 - A newtype-friendly variant of unboxed vectors https://hackage.haskell.org/package/unboxing-vector-0.2.0.0 (aratamizuki) |
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| 05:49:18 | <dolio> | Anyhow, using the naturals or the rationals doesn't really change the ordinals you can can define, which is the point of cardinality, I guess. |
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| 05:49:47 | <dolio> | You can put the same well-orders on either one. |
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| 06:00:44 | <nshepperd> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_type seems to be the thing |
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| 09:16:39 | <Enrico63> | Hello |
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| 09:18:40 | <Enrico63> | I'm installing [haskell-ide-engine](https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/haskell-ide-engine), but too late I read the comment "If you are suffering from long build times: Consider adjusting the _enabled_ghc_versions variable in the PKGBUILD to only the ghc versions you need", so the build process has been running for more than 1 hour now, and I do |
| 09:18:40 | <Enrico63> | have seen outputs like [this](https://gist.github.com/Aster89/70b2e5570eb8447c15db04e2dd62dff9) several times |
| 09:20:17 | <Enrico63> | I could kill it or leave it go, but how do I unistall whatever has been uninstalled in excess? |
| 09:20:30 | <Enrico63> | Or you think I should ask on the archlinux channel? |
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| 09:30:01 | <aldum> | did you finish the build? |
| 09:30:37 | <aldum> | if not, just clear the cache/remove the build directory |
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| 09:34:06 | <Enrico63> | aldum, since it's isntalling now the last most recent version, I'm letting it finish |
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| 09:35:03 | <Enrico63> | carlomagno1, are you a Gas Dynamic prof? |
| 09:37:01 | <yushyin> | and then you find out that hardly anybody uses haskell-ide-engine anymore but haskell-language-server. and also that ghcup can install the prebuild binaries for you |
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| 09:40:06 | <aldum> | the haskell situation on Arch is not optimal, to say the least |
| 09:40:43 | <Enrico63> | yushyin, I plan to use it with Vim and YouCompleteMe. Is it haskeell-language-server a better choice, in this case? |
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| 09:47:14 | <yushyin> | Enrico63: YouCompleteMe implements a language server protocol client, so you can use haskell-language-server with it. If it's better I don't know. You'll have to try it. |
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| 09:57:08 | <fendor> | Enrico63, HIE is not actively developed anymore. Haskell Language Server is the successor. I would recommend Haskell Language Server |
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| 10:01:58 | <Enrico63> | fendor, the "not-actively-developed anymore" seems a good reason to use the other one, but I wanted to ask the question on stackoverflow, with the hope that it gets more visibility: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/64087188/what-is-the-current-situation-for-using-vim-as-ide-for-haskell-on-archlinux |
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| 10:11:02 | <fendor> | Enrico63, I answered |
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| 10:14:46 | <yushyin> | Enrico63: 'the haskell situation on Arch is not optimal, to say the least' because arch linux uses dynamic linking for haskell packages. It results in odd compile time errors, because ghc/cabal still want to build static by default and cannot find any static libs. also ghc does not provide a stable abi which results in a rebuild of every reverse dependency each time package is updated. |
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| 10:15:33 | <yushyin> | Enrico63: it's an odd decision |
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| 10:15:54 | <Enrico63> | what decision? |
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| 10:16:14 | <Uniaika> | dynamically linking haskell packages |
| 10:16:19 | <yushyin> | this ^ |
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| 10:17:15 | <Enrico63> | Oh, ok, for a moment I though that asking also on SO was considered an odd decision of mine XD |
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| 10:18:12 | <yushyin> | ghc's support for this is not great and probably will never be. So it's an odd decision from the arch linux haskell package maintainer. |
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| 10:19:57 | <yushyin> | Enrico63: I recommend to use ghcup for the purpose of developing haskell stuff. Just don't bother with the packages from your linux distribution. |
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| 10:21:49 | <yushyin> | Enrico63: https://gitlab.haskell.org/haskell/ghcup-hs#installation |
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| 10:23:04 | <Enrico63> | Well, if that's my distribution it's clear I have to deal with it, no? And I was asking here too, because the intersection of the sets of haskell programmers and archlinux users could be other than empty. I'm sorry if telling my distribution made too much noise. |
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| 10:28:54 | <Enrico63> | yushyin, the above message was meant to be directed to you. Just to make it clear that I don't want to bother anybody and that I'm sorry if you perceived it this way. |
| 10:29:01 | <aldum> | irssi shat itself, did I miss anything after the apology? |
| 10:29:28 | hackage | Z-IO 0.1.2.0 - Simple and high performance IO toolkit for Haskell https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Z-IO-0.1.2.0 (winterland) |
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| 10:32:14 | <aldum> | also, if anyone has a good idea on how arch should handle haskell, talk to me |
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| 10:33:15 | <yushyin> | Enrico63: you are not bothering me at least. I think ghcup is a great tool to help to set up a haskell developing evironment and I would recommend it regardless the linux distribution in use. |
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| 10:36:57 | <yushyin> | aldum: I do have an opinion on that matter. don't bother with libraries packages, just build typical haskell tools static (pandoc, shellcheck, etc). Let people know to use either ghcup or stack for developing haskell stuff. (perhaps not a popular opinion ;)) |
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| 10:38:16 | <aldum> | there are -bin packages in the AUR for pandoc and shellcheck |
| 10:38:24 | <aldum> | maybe already doable depending what etc entails |
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| 13:31:30 | <p0a> | if I want to calculate n*(n+1)/2, which is an integer |
| 13:31:52 | <p0a> | do I have to do all the conversions in between? fromIntegral and then with floor? |
| 13:32:01 | <int-e> | odd:t div |
| 13:32:03 | <int-e> | oops |
| 13:32:05 | <int-e> | :t div |
| 13:32:06 | <lambdabot> | Integral a => a -> a -> a |
| 13:32:18 | <int-e> | so, no, just don't use / |
| 13:32:24 | <p0a> | aha, thank you |
| 13:32:32 | <p0a> | that makes sense |
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| 13:38:22 | <p0a> | how can I `let' a function? a named lambda? |
| 13:38:40 | <p0a> | oh nevermind, let f = (\x -> ..) |
| 13:39:04 | <xsperry> | which is the same as let f x = .. |
| 13:39:39 | <xsperry> | > let f x = x * x in f 10 |
| 13:39:42 | <lambdabot> | 100 |
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| 13:41:54 | <p0a> | oh thank you xsperry |
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| 13:42:26 | <xsperry> | np |
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| 14:03:44 | <p0a> | Is there a function f :: Maybe a -> a with f (Just x) = x? Partially defined |
| 14:03:51 | <p0a> | or must I pattern match every time I want to do that? |
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| 14:03:57 | <[exa]> | something like fromJust ? |
| 14:04:02 | <p0a> | nice, thank you |
| 14:04:27 | <[exa]> | there's a whole heap of such easy matchers in Data.Maybe |
| 14:05:13 | <[exa]> | you might like fromMaybe which has "default a" |
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| 14:06:06 | <p0a> | sure. I like mapMaybe the best I think |
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| 14:09:26 | <[exa]> | dodging manual conditions is great |
| 14:09:45 | <[exa]> | also, Maybe monoids are monoids |
| 14:10:03 | <p0a> | right now I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out how to dodge this |
| 14:10:13 | <p0a> | but it's not hte end of the world I can just write some bad looking code |
| 14:10:36 | <[exa]> | well after having something that works you can ask hlint for a hint |
| 14:10:44 | <p0a> | that's a good idea |
| 14:11:18 | <[exa]> | (...or just paste it here and have it torn to pieces and reduced to half-line combination of arrows and lens magic, as usual.) |
| 14:11:45 | <[exa]> | (I forgot to add "incomprehensible" to the above description) |
| 14:12:11 | <p0a> | Sure I can tell you |
| 14:12:23 | <p0a> | I am searching a list for x and -x. Only one can be found (but one will certainly be present) |
| 14:12:33 | <p0a> | and I want the result to be f x or (- f x) accordingly |
| 14:12:44 | <p0a> | Sorry, I mean, either f x or (- f (- x)) |
| 14:12:52 | <p0a> | Let's say f is only defined for x > 0 |
| 14:13:48 | <p0a> | Maybe 2 'case of' will work out |
| 14:14:03 | <[exa]> | so you have a list of whatever that contains at least one of (x) and (-x) for some specified x? |
| 14:14:23 | <[exa]> | s/at least/exactly |
| 14:14:26 | <p0a> | yeah |
| 14:14:37 | <p0a> | well the list only contains positive x's. The x I have may be positive or negative |
| 14:14:42 | <[exa]> | you might want to use list comprehensions |
| 14:15:29 | × | BalterNotz quits (ca420871@202.66.8.113) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 14:15:37 | <[exa]> | or just filter with abs, that might be even neater |
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| 14:16:30 | <[exa]> | then extract head of the list (or patternmatch it to a singleton list if you wanna be triple-sure), apply `f`, done. |
| 14:16:46 | <p0a> | I think I have a workable function I can paste now |
| 14:16:50 | <[exa]> | ok |
| 14:17:57 | <[exa]> | we've got a shiny new pastebing at https://paste.tomsmeding.com/ btw |
| 14:18:02 | <[exa]> | *pastebin |
| 14:18:08 | <p0a> | okay le tme use htat |
| 14:18:35 | <p0a> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com/3PTXPmjI |
| 14:19:03 | <[exa]> | oh noes this is with floats. :] |
| 14:19:22 | <p0a> | floats? :) |
| 14:19:38 | <p0a> | oh you mean it's not integers, right |
| 14:19:43 | <p0a> | it's matrices in fact |
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| 14:20:45 | <p0a> | are you saying that == fails because they're Double's? maybe that's true, although the calculations are binary (either 0 or 1) |
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| 14:22:28 | <[exa]> | if the calculation is binary you might really want to say it's Int |
| 14:22:55 | <p0a> | yeah you are right |
| 14:23:07 | <[exa]> | (==) tends to fail in completely non-algebraic ways with floats&doubles, more precisely you can forget that it holds through associative&distributive laws |
| 14:24:20 | <p0a> | I remember my professor chewing me with questions from ieee754 before |
| 14:24:37 | <[exa]> | general advice is to avoid ieee754 questions. :] |
| 14:24:56 | <int-e> | "general" |
| 14:25:52 | <p0a> | I held ground for a bit, but eventually resolved to saying something like "we need more bytes?" |
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| 14:34:44 | <Guest_67> | . |
| 14:35:51 | <Guest_67> | Permission was denied when I wanted to add the required PATH variable to /Users/b/.bashrc |
| 14:36:59 | ← | Guest_67 parts (5284e9b3@82-132-233-179.dab.02.net) () |
| 14:37:32 | <[exa]> | p0a: I didn't try to compile this but it might show how to really exploit the list machinery https://paste.tomsmeding.com/crh9oaVX |
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| 14:38:28 | <[exa]> | (oh and you might need to place `head $` before `do` to get a single possibility there) |
| 14:38:41 | <p0a> | [exa]: that' svery nice |
| 14:38:50 | <p0a> | I see you're using guard and also some tricks with *> |
| 14:38:54 | <p0a> | I'll have to think about it |
| 14:39:39 | <[exa]> | p0a: the monad binding (<-) for lists works like list comprehension, it tries the rest of the code for all values in the list you bound |
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| 14:40:15 | <[exa]> | and `guard` kindof terminates the attempt to reach a result if the condition is false |
| 14:41:24 | <[exa]> | intuition for the rest: <|> is an "or" for this kind of wrapped computations (if the first branch fails, you still get some results for the second) |
| 14:41:38 | <p0a> | right |
| 14:41:48 | <p0a> | I'm going to learn from that example |
| 14:41:55 | <[exa]> | and *> is a fancy version of "if nothing broke yet, return the thing on the right" |
| 14:42:03 | <p0a> | guard seems handy, it's just foreign to me |
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| 14:42:17 | <p0a> | I don't use it because I think I've never seen it before |
| 14:42:32 | <[exa]> | I might have simplified that with $> 1 and $> -1 from Data.Functor |
| 14:42:34 | <p0a> | (Except for the tutorials/books on haskell that I've read) |
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| 14:42:54 | <[exa]> | uh, and list functor/applicative primer: |
| 14:43:09 | <[exa]> | > [(+1),(*10)] <*> [1,2,3] |
| 14:43:11 | <lambdabot> | [2,3,4,10,20,30] |
| 14:43:25 | <p0a> | that reminds me |
| 14:43:31 | <p0a> | Why does it work in that fashion? |
| 14:43:45 | <p0a> | I saw an example `liftA2 (,) list1 list2' for cartesian product |
| 14:43:54 | <[exa]> | > [1,2] $> 10 |
| 14:43:56 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 14:43:56 | <lambdabot> | • Variable not in scope: ($>) :: [a0] -> t0 -> t |
| 14:43:56 | <lambdabot> | • Perhaps you meant one of these: |
| 14:44:04 | <[exa]> | oh noes, $> is from Data.Functor |
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| 14:44:37 | <[exa]> | p0a: list Applicative instance is derived exactly like that. The semantics is something like "Listing of all possibilities" (with some rough corners about infinities) |
| 14:45:39 | <p0a> | why couldn't it be zip-like instead? |
| 14:45:59 | <[exa]> | p0a: btw the liftA2 rewrites to the "operator" form like this, I find it kindof more illustrative: |
| 14:46:00 | <p0a> | i.e. [(+1),(*10)] <*> [1,2,3] would give [2, 20] |
| 14:46:16 | <[exa]> | > (,) <$> [1,2,3] <*> [1,2,3] |
| 14:46:19 | <lambdabot> | [(1,1),(1,2),(1,3),(2,1),(2,2),(2,3),(3,1),(3,2),(3,3)] |
| 14:46:36 | <p0a> | yeah I see what that means |
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| 14:47:11 | <p0a> | the magic is in <*> then; that's why I'm asking my question above about an alternative definition |
| 14:47:14 | <p0a> | would it violate some 'axiom' ? |
| 14:47:21 | <[exa]> | p0a: good question; the simple answer is that list comprehension wouldn't work, but I believe there's some slightly more rigorous reason |
| 14:47:23 | <kosmikus> | it could be zip-like. in fact, there's a newtype called ZipList that implements exactly that applicative instance. the "default" instance is chosen to be compatible with the monad instance for lists. |
| 14:48:06 | <p0a> | oh nice. I see, thank you |
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| 14:49:57 | <[exa]> | oh yes there's no (reasonable) way to "flatten" lists by zipping, so their monad instance would have to be kinda fishy (thanks kosmikus!) |
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| 14:54:19 | <antaoiseach> | Hello folks, I'm just learning about the various GHC extensions, and I was trying this example - https://limperg.de/ghc-extensions/#bangpatterns, but the code does not seem to be working as expected for me. |
| 14:54:29 | <antaoiseach> | The code snippet is here https://paste.ofcode.org/AFpzbG8CCY3fftWuYKHuWs |
| 14:54:48 | <[exa]> | p0a: btw in case of lists, the `a <- b ; c ....` is basically a fun syntax for `concatMap (\a -> c ...) b` |
| 14:55:21 | <antaoiseach> | The linked guide says that with the bang pattern, `main` should execute almost instantly, but that does not seem to be the case when I try it (both in GHCi and GHC).. can anyone help me understand this? |
| 14:56:20 | <[exa]> | antaoiseach: are you sure that this amount of recursion should finish almost instantly? |
| 14:56:49 | × | heatsink quits (~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 14:56:54 | <antaoiseach> | exarkun: No, I'm not sure... the guide says that it should - hence my confusion! |
| 14:57:07 | <[exa]> | uh, if you _remove_ the ! it can finish instantly because it doesn't have to compute the fibs |
| 14:57:28 | <yushyin> | 'Without the bang pattern, the programme terminates almost instantly ...' -- from your source |
| 14:57:36 | <antaoiseach> | Oh |
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| 14:57:44 | <antaoiseach> | Okay ... sorry ... my mistake then! :( |
| 14:57:52 | <[exa]> | no problem :] |
| 14:57:59 | <antaoiseach> | Hahaha ... sorry guys! :D |
| 14:58:17 | <[exa]> | I was myself expecting a completely different kind of twist :D |
| 14:58:23 | <antaoiseach> | hahaha! :D |
| 14:58:58 | hackage | vulkan 3.6.7 - Bindings to the Vulkan graphics API. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/vulkan-3.6.7 (jophish) |
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| 14:59:23 | <antaoiseach> | Okay, so maybe I could make better use of this chance and ask a better question then! So I'm done with "Programming in Haskell" (2nd Edition), and loved the book. Now I'm trying to get more into the practical side of things - monad transformers, stack, various extensions etc. |
| 14:59:31 | kelsey | is now known as Guest18832 |
| 14:59:33 | <antaoiseach> | What would you recommend in addition/instead of this path? |
| 14:59:48 | Guest18832 | is now known as keteskyl |
| 14:59:55 | <antaoiseach> | To move from a basic but relatively strong theoretical foundation onto more advanced and practical stuff? |
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| 15:01:58 | <maralorn> | Can I newtype derive an instance for "MyClass MyType B" when there is an instance "MyClass A B" and a "newtype MyType = MyType A"? |
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| 15:02:31 | <maralorn> | antaoiseach: I like http://dev.stephendiehl.com/hask/ |
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| 15:03:37 | <antaoiseach> | maralorn: Thank you.. that looks very nicely organised indeed! |
| 15:04:38 | <antaoiseach> | maralorn: yes, that looks almost exactly like what I am looking for right now. Thanks again! :-) |
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| 15:28:57 | hackage | irc-core 2.9 - IRC core library for glirc https://hackage.haskell.org/package/irc-core-2.9 (EricMertens) |
| 15:30:27 | hackage | glirc 2.37 - Console IRC client https://hackage.haskell.org/package/glirc-2.37 (EricMertens) |
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| 16:18:26 | <Guest_7> | hello i get this error: [ Info ] verifying digest of: ghc-8.8.4-x86_64-apple-darwin.tar.xz[ Error ] DigestError "596c0f9ce80b579ed4888ed9d574ff947d0a2c9481a3b1a4affa5af110124338" "e80a789e9d8cfb41dd87f3284b75432427c4461c1731d220d04ead8733ccdb5e"[ Error ] Also check the logs in "/Users/saabriin/.ghcup/logs""_eghcup --cache install ghc recommended" |
| 16:18:27 | <Guest_7> | failed! |
| 16:18:34 | <Guest_7> | i have no clue that this means |
| 16:18:52 | <maerwald> | oh, that's odd |
| 16:19:12 | <Guest_7> | when i try to download ghc |
| 16:19:23 | <maerwald> | it means either your download is corrupted or the bindist was updated in-place |
| 16:19:27 | <maerwald> | can you just try again? |
| 16:19:57 | <Guest_7> | i get the same error when i try |
| 16:21:26 | <p0a> | Manually download the file and compare it with the one you have |
| 16:21:39 | <Guest_7> | curl --proto '=https' --tlsv1.2 -sSf https://get-ghcup.haskell.org | shthis is what i put into the teminal |
| 16:21:44 | <maerwald> | the hashes are correct, so either your download is corrupted or the bindist is corrupted |
| 16:21:55 | <p0a> | https://www.haskell.org/ghc/download_ghc_8_8_4.html |
| 16:22:14 | <maerwald> | don't download it manually if it's corrupted :) |
| 16:22:39 | <Guest_7> | what do i do? |
| 16:22:46 | × | mozzarella quits (~sam@unaffiliated/sam113101) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 16:22:48 | <maerwald> | I'm checking the bindist |
| 16:23:01 | × | Amras quits (~Amras@unaffiliated/amras0000) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
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| 16:24:08 | <maerwald> | the bindist is fine, so your download is corrupt |
| 16:24:30 | <Guest_7> | what should i do? |
| 16:24:54 | <maerwald> | Guest_7: can you run: ~/.ghcup/bin/ghcup --downloader=wget install ghc |
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| 16:25:32 | <Enrico63> | Hello again :) |
| 16:25:36 | <Guest_7> | [ Warn ] Could not get download info, trying cached version (this may not be recent!)[ Info ] downloading: https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/8.8.4/ghc-8.8.4-x86_64-apple-darwin.tar.xzghcup: wget: executeFile: does not exist (No such file or directory)[ Error ] DownloadFailed (NonZeroExit 1 "wget" |
| 16:25:37 | <Guest_7> | ["-O","/var/folders/dv/ng7l4rc57s33bjxr0h8xtg6h0000gn/T/ghcup-Afe21n/ghc-8.8.4-x86_64-apple-darwin.tar.xz","https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/8.8.4/ghc-8.8.4-x86_64-apple-darwin.tar.xz"])[ Error ] Also check the logs in "/Users/saabriin/.ghcup/logs |
| 16:25:44 | <Guest_7> | this is the error im getting now |
| 16:26:00 | <maerwald> | you don't have wget I guess |
| 16:26:10 | <geekosaur> | this is os x, it doesn't come with wget which is why it's using curl |
| 16:26:23 | <maerwald> | yes, but curl doesn't download the bindist correctly |
| 16:26:33 | <p0a> | wgot'em |
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| 16:26:45 | <geekosaur> | that cached message worries me a bit |
| 16:26:51 | <maerwald> | geekosaur: nope |
| 16:27:56 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 16:27:58 | <maerwald> | well, we need a working downloader :) |
| 16:28:16 | <maerwald> | otherwise cabal will fail too later |
| 16:28:28 | <Guest_7> | can i use brew? |
| 16:28:37 | <maerwald> | for installing wget? |
| 16:28:51 | <Guest_7> | yea |
| 16:28:54 | <maerwald> | I think so |
| 16:29:17 | <sm[m]> | you can install ghc with brew :) |
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| 16:29:27 | <maerwald> | that's not gonna be fun |
| 16:29:38 | <Enrico63> | Anybody using Vim-YCM to write Haskell? |
| 16:29:40 | <sm[m]> | it's super simple |
| 16:29:42 | <maerwald> | and as said: cabal will break too |
| 16:29:53 | <sm[m]> | stack doesn't.. |
| 16:29:55 | <sm[m]> | shrug |
| 16:30:08 | <maerwald> | bc stack uses haskell-tls, which is worse |
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| 16:31:11 | <maerwald> | sm[m]: https://github.com/hasufell/stack2cabal/runs/1173082195?check_suite_focus=true#step:8:321 have you seen this on windows? |
| 16:31:26 | <Guest_7> | im a mac user |
| 16:31:26 | <sm[m]> | just a drive-by comment, I don't know what y'all are talking about |
| 16:32:12 | <Enrico63> | sm[m], but you can know what I am talking about :D |
| 16:33:01 | <maerwald> | sm[m]: because I remember you claimed windows support is excellent and I'm seeing xxx build failures whatever I try to build :) |
| 16:33:36 | <maerwald> | "could not execute ld" sounds good |
| 16:34:05 | <p0a> | Excellence is relative |
| 16:34:23 | <Squarism> | Anyone know if people started doing production stuff in Asterius? |
| 16:34:38 | <sm[m]> | maerwald: it doesn't ring a bell (and I don't see the "details above" it refers to) |
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| 16:35:20 | <sm[m]> | maerwald: are you sure you're quoting me in context :) |
| 16:35:39 | <maerwald> | ofc not, I want to nudge you into helping me :p |
| 16:36:10 | <sm[m]> | better to just ask me then, I'll probably try |
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| 16:36:54 | <sm[m]> | any luck googling for the error ? |
| 16:37:48 | <sm[m]> | (& are you using a gitlab worker with github CI ? seemed so) |
| 16:38:10 | <maerwald> | yeah |
| 16:38:39 | <sm[m]> | that sounds cunning |
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| 16:44:25 | <maerwald> | what? no |
| 16:44:49 | <sm[m]> | maerwald: btw I did have a look earlier since you cc'd me.. I wasn't logged in and couldn't see everything, but now I am.. and still having trouble finding the workflow that generated this - got a link ? |
| 16:45:30 | <maerwald> | sm[m]: https://github.com/hasufell/stack2cabal/blob/9dd4fc1a538dd2aa0a1d91c19f590b959f9a0b40/.github/workflows/haskell.yml |
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| 16:45:45 | <sm[m]> | thanks |
| 16:45:46 | <maerwald> | I'm messing around with flags and constraints randomly |
| 16:46:00 | <sm[m]> | that'll surely work! :) |
| 16:47:49 | <maerwald> | overall, haskell + windows is an awful experience |
| 16:48:12 | <maerwald> | https://github.com/haskell-hvr/regex-posix/issues/4 |
| 16:48:31 | <sm[m]> | oh I see.. when it says see the build log above, it's actually appearing a few lines below |
| 16:48:38 | <[exa]> | so if I run mmap from the mmap package on a pipe, it silently mmaps it as an empty file and doesn't report any kind of error. Is there any best way to detect that this has happened? |
| 16:49:40 | <[exa]> | ad pipe I mean something that comes out of `mkfifo` |
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| 16:50:22 | <sm[m]> | maerwald: one thing that comes to mind that's easy to try, specify shell: bash (or whatever the syntax is) so that bash is used on windows too. Otherwise it's in powershell or something |
| 16:50:40 | <sm[m]> | it can remove some variability |
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| 16:51:16 | <sm[m]> | I guess it runs in WSL if you do that |
| 16:51:34 | <maerwald> | imo... there's not a single CI solution that has made it easy to *develop* a CI config |
| 16:51:44 | <maerwald> | it's all commit-push-wait non-interactive |
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| 16:53:06 | <sm[m]> | there is a way of getting an interactive shell. I wish I had set it up from the start, it would have been worthwhile |
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| 16:53:20 | <sm[m]> | it's in the actions marketplace |
| 16:54:14 | <maerwald> | so... it seems zlib fails to build straight on windows |
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| 16:55:09 | <p0a> | [exa]: you probably can't do that from mmap because mmap is not careful enough |
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| 16:56:22 | <p0a> | [exa]: I'm not entirely sure how the FFI works but the source code seems to use system_io_mmap_file_size, which would report 0 for the pipe I suppose |
| 16:56:26 | <sm[m]> | maerwald: you could also compare with mine and see what's different ? https://github.com/simonmichael/hledger/actions?query=workflow%3A%22windows+CI%22 |
| 16:57:01 | <p0a> | [exa]: in C if you try to mmap a pipe file descriptor you would get EACCES |
| 16:57:15 | <maerwald> | sm[m]: you're not using cabal |
| 16:57:26 | <maerwald> | so that doesn't help me |
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| 16:58:00 | <sm[m]> | ah. Well it maybe something stack took care of for the windows users. As I've mentioned before, this is one of the things stack is good at |
| 16:58:22 | <sm[m]> | it's probably discussed in their issue tracker |
| 16:58:25 | <[exa]> | p0a: yeah that's likely... more like, what's the easiest test that the file cannot be mmapped AND doesn't involve rewriting the mmap library to actually force mmap to fail; which is in fact weird that it does not now. |
| 16:59:51 | <maerwald> | sm[m]: stack fails in other ways |
| 17:00:02 | <maerwald> | but I'm tackling one after another |
| 17:00:18 | <sm[m]> | did you google the message yet ? what about https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/18550 |
| 17:00:41 | <sm[m]> | sorry to be annoying |
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| 17:03:43 | <p0a> | [exa]: what is mmapable now may not be later :) Why are you using mmap? |
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| 17:04:39 | <[exa]> | to avoid loading tons of bytestrings to RAM, tbh |
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| 17:06:06 | <p0a> | how come you're sometimes doing it on pipes? |
| 17:06:28 | <[exa]> | it's a shell tool; sometimes you just want to pipe stuff in dynamically |
| 17:06:53 | <[exa]> | it's diff, consider `diff <(zcat foo) bar` |
| 17:06:58 | <p0a> | the shell tool should know when it's a pipe and when it is not |
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| 17:07:09 | <p0a> | well, in that case you show above at least |
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| 17:07:15 | <[exa]> | that expands to `diff /tmp/somepipe bar` |
| 17:07:32 | <p0a> | Oh oh, not in /that/ case :) |
| 17:07:41 | <p0a> | I thought you did `foo | cat bar' |
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| 17:10:06 | <p0a> | instead of the <(zcat foo) trick, just have your shell tool uncompress the file, `tool foo bar' |
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| 17:13:11 | <p0a> | I don't know what the solution is, but if mmap doesn't error on a pipe, I'm not sure what to do |
| 17:14:02 | <[exa]> | p0a: I'm kinda aiming to simulate the normal diff that survives this without problems, also user experience. :] |
| 17:14:13 | <p0a> | [exa]: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/unix-2.7.2.2/docs/System-Posix-Files.html |
| 17:14:27 | <p0a> | [exa]: You can use this to determine what kind of file you're dealing with I believe |
| 17:15:16 | <p0a> | with isRegularFile, for instance |
| 17:15:36 | <geekosaur> | witha race condition |
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| 17:16:12 | <p0a> | I don't know how the regular `diff' works, but it probably doesn't read the whole file into memory. If you avoid doing that, you should be fine? I don't know if mmap is the solution. |
| 17:16:25 | <geekosaur> | well, you can determine it for a file descriptor with its wrapper for fstat() |
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| 17:19:47 | <sm[m]> | maerwald, I wonder was it relevant ? Have you been hit by a ghc-8.10.2-on-windows bug ? If so maybe use ghc-8.8.2 ? |
| 17:20:40 | <[exa]> | sounds like patching mmap. :] |
| 17:21:23 | <sm[m]> | or ghc-8.8.4, not sure |
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| 17:56:32 | <maerwald> | sm[m]: yes, I think it's a 8.10.2 bug |
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| 18:13:24 | <maerwald> | I'm wondering if it's actually GHC or chocolatey being broken |
| 18:13:29 | <maerwald> | I'm thinkin the latter |
| 18:13:41 | <maerwald> | (otherwise... why would stack work) |
| 18:14:17 | <phadej> | 8.10.2 is broken |
| 18:14:23 | <phadej> | it has hardcoded paths |
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| 18:14:57 | <phadej> | (not sure if that's the reason to the reason it doesn't work for you) |
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| 18:19:02 | <maerwald> | I'm not sure github actions is much of an improvement over travis. I've definitely wasted more time on it. |
| 18:19:19 | <dead10cc> | is a monad a type class? |
| 18:19:36 | <ski> | no, `Monad' is a type class |
| 18:20:06 | <phadej> | maerwald: It's not an improvement. as in, it's not /strictly/ better. It's better at some stuff, worse at other |
| 18:20:07 | <ski> | a monad is a type that is a (lawful) instance of the `Monad' type class |
| 18:20:45 | <maerwald> | phadej: I'm just glad I don't have github->travis redirection problems... that's all I noticed |
| 18:20:51 | <dead10cc> | well then that simplifies things, thanks |
| 18:21:13 | <phadej> | maerwald: redirection problems? |
| 18:21:26 | <maerwald> | yeah, constantly needing to re-login at travis |
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| 18:21:59 | <phadej> | hmm, I haven't noticed that. (as in, I don't remember when I logged into travis last time explicitly) |
| 18:22:10 | <phadej> | maybe your browser is more strict about privacy (not a bad thing) |
| 18:22:26 | <maerwald> | it's full of half-working extensions, yeah |
| 18:22:28 | <sm[m]> | I find GitHub way better, if only because it covers all three platforms, and is more integrated with my repo. Maybe Travis got better |
| 18:22:29 | <koz_> | I've used Github Actions. It's annoying, but I finally found how to make a config that works in all the ways I care about. |
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| 18:22:43 | <maerwald> | sm[m]: does travis not cover windows? |
| 18:22:49 | <phadej> | it does |
| 18:23:00 | <phadej> | https://docs.travis-ci.com/user/reference/windows/ |
| 18:23:04 | <sm[m]> | mac ? |
| 18:23:10 | <maerwald> | mac is supported |
| 18:23:17 | <maerwald> | I build ghcup binaries on mac |
| 18:23:17 | <phadej> | and also arm target, fwiw |
| 18:23:28 | <maerwald> | *mac travis |
| 18:23:40 | <maerwald> | (and the linking is good) |
| 18:23:49 | <maerwald> | (on ghc gitlab, it isn't) |
| 18:24:00 | <sm[m]> | alrighty.. are they as uniform as on GitHub ? |
| 18:24:11 | ← | macrover parts (~macrover@ip70-189-231-35.lv.lv.cox.net) () |
| 18:24:17 | <phadej> | as uniform as travis.yml allows, I guess :) |
| 18:24:58 | <phadej> | GitHub CI has a benefit that you can have multiple jobs, which are completely unrelated |
| 18:25:09 | <phadej> | if travis had that, it would be strictly better, IMO. |
| 18:25:21 | <maerwald> | the actions have this vibe of badly written nmp modules though |
| 18:25:27 | <phadej> | (and also gave more cpu time to OSS for free, but I cannot blame anyone for not doing that) |
| 18:25:27 | <maerwald> | *npm |
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| 18:25:54 | <phadej> | maerwald: I don't use premade actions, they take out control where I most need it |
| 18:25:55 | <maerwald> | like, import some action, figure out it works 60% of the time |
| 18:26:02 | <maerwald> | a little like ansible maybe |
| 18:27:24 | <maerwald> | and when I want to look at what an action does... it's 5k LOC js code |
| 18:27:37 | <phadej> | yes, the API is horrible. |
| 18:27:41 | <phadej> | JS code glued with YAML |
| 18:28:22 | <maerwald> | they should have picked haskell (and if it's just to keep most programmers out :p |
| 18:28:46 | <koz_> | phadej: That was the worst part. |
| 18:28:50 | <koz_> | Configuration gore is worst gore. |
| 18:29:07 | <phadej> | then they would needed to seriously think about API against which actions are programmed with |
| 18:29:11 | <phadej> | it's not trivial problem |
| 18:29:42 | <phadej> | with JS, kind easier (you don't need to think upfront, even though it might be a good idea) |
| 18:30:08 | <maerwald> | "you don't need to think upfront" is a good description of js programming, yes |
| 18:30:22 | <koz_> | maerwald: Lol. |
| 18:30:28 | <sm[m]> | I think CI often gets blamed because it exposes us to the issues on unfamiliar platforms, and obscure issues that locally we would just work around. But the non interactivity for learning/troubleshooting is definitely a common problem |
| 18:31:03 | <maerwald> | yes... there's a market for fixing this, imo |
| 18:31:20 | <sm[m]> | I guess using your own worker is a solution for this (and caching too) |
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| 18:33:10 | <maerwald> | doesn't seem too hard... you cache builds after each step, provide an online editor for your config and allow to rever restart from steps, as well as dropp into an interactive shell after a given step |
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| 18:34:00 | <maerwald> | but competing in the CI market isn't really about your tech solutions |
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| 18:53:30 | <Guest_43> | I download in terminal and the result is all done.But I input ghci it gave me command not found |
| 18:53:55 | <adam_wespiser> | Haskell CI can sometimes take a long time, I'd really like If I could send a certificate from my computer that all the tests pass, and the CI would accept it and run less |
| 18:55:11 | <Guest_43> | how |
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| 18:56:16 | <adam_wespiser> | I'm not sure how it would work, yet |
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| 18:56:50 | <Guest_43> | No I mean how can I fix tha |
| 18:56:52 | <Guest_43> | t |
| 18:57:01 | <koz_> | :t comparing |
| 18:57:03 | <lambdabot> | Ord a => (b -> a) -> b -> b -> Ordering |
| 18:57:22 | <adam_wespiser> | Nix helps a little bit with caching builds |
| 18:57:23 | <c_wraith> | Guest_43: what did you install? what os? |
| 18:57:41 | <c_wraith> | Guest_43: (ghcup on os x, maybe?) |
| 18:57:55 | <koz_> | @where comparing |
| 18:57:56 | <lambdabot> | I know nothing about comparing. |
| 18:57:58 | <koz_> | :( |
| 18:58:05 | <MarcelineVQ> | Data.Ord |
| 18:58:10 | <koz_> | MarcelineVQ: Thanks! |
| 18:58:19 | <c_wraith> | The @where command is just for pre-canned stuff anyway. |
| 18:58:19 | <MarcelineVQ> | @index comparing |
| 18:58:20 | <lambdabot> | Data.Ord, Distribution.Simple.Utils |
| 18:58:27 | <c_wraith> | Yeah, you wanted @index |
| 18:58:31 | <koz_> | Ah. |
| 18:58:41 | <MarcelineVQ> | or hoogle or grep :> |
| 18:58:43 | <koz_> | But is it an int index? :P |
| 18:58:53 | <MarcelineVQ> | It's Maybe Nat |
| 18:58:59 | <c_wraith> | or https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.14.0.0/docs/doc-index-C.html |
| 18:59:11 | <Guest_43> | I download a file and I input : load lec |
| 18:59:15 | <c_wraith> | it seems like no one knows about haddock's index pages |
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| 18:59:26 | <maerwald> | what |
| 18:59:35 | <koz_> | c_wraith: Truthfully, I didn't either, until today. Thanks. |
| 18:59:37 | <adam_wespiser> | you can also do "Cntrl - s" to search on hackage |
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| 19:00:03 | <maerwald> | adam_wespiser: isn't it *just* s? |
| 19:00:07 | <MarcelineVQ> | adam_wespiser: in fact you can just press s on many hackage pages for a site-specific search |
| 19:00:09 | <maerwald> | at least for me |
| 19:00:30 | <c_wraith> | maerwald: a *lot* of people say things like "I wish there was a place I could just see everything defined in a package" |
| 19:00:32 | <adam_wespiser> | yea, you're right |
| 19:00:44 | <adam_wespiser> | for some reason i've been using cntrl-s |
| 19:00:50 | <adam_wespiser> | anyway, great feature |
| 19:01:03 | <maerwald> | it is, just gets a little slow in big packages |
| 19:01:12 | <maerwald> | because it doesn't debounce searching |
| 19:01:18 | <Guest_8> | I download ghc on windows and a file my professor gave me. But after I input :load lec3.hs , it gave me Failed, no modules loaded. How can I fix that |
| 19:01:24 | <adam_wespiser> | Agreed, and sometimes it resolves to the typeclass, when I'm search by a typeclass method |
| 19:01:40 | <c_wraith> | Guest_8: sounds like the file isn't in the location you're running ghc from |
| 19:01:47 | <c_wraith> | err, ghci |
| 19:02:07 | <Guest_8> | I think so, what should I do? |
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| 19:04:49 | <adam_wespiser> | try running ghci from the same directory as your file |
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| 19:08:36 | <Guest_8> | I run ghci in the command prompt and its like C:\Users\123>ghci, my file is in a folder on desktop. How can I run them in the same directory? |
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| 19:12:44 | <ski> | use `cd' to get into the folder in question |
| 19:13:39 | <Guest_8> | Could you be more specific? |
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| 19:14:12 | <maerwald> | sm[m]: also, the add-path directive (contrary to the official github actions docs) doesn't work on windows |
| 19:14:28 | <ski> | i don't know the path to your folder |
| 19:14:38 | <maerwald> | that's why I like half-assed cross-platfrom approaches |
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| 19:15:09 | <Guest_8> | C;\Users\123\Desktop |
| 19:15:24 | <Guest_8> | folername CISC |
| 19:15:29 | <ski> | so the file `lec3.hs' is on your desktop ? |
| 19:15:35 | <Guest_8> | yes |
| 19:15:53 | <Guest_8> | in the CISC |
| 19:16:10 | <ski> | is `CISC' another folder ? |
| 19:16:41 | <Guest_8> | lec3 is a file in folder CISC and CISC is on desktop |
| 19:16:48 | <ski> | C:\Users\123>cd Desktop\CISC |
| 19:17:06 | <ski> | C:\Users\123\Desktop\CISC>ghci lec3.hs |
| 19:17:28 | <Guest_8> | cd Desktop\cisc360 |
| 19:17:51 | <ski> | if it's actually called `cisc360', then yes |
| 19:18:28 | <Guest_8> | omg |
| 19:18:32 | <Guest_8> | it worked |
| 19:18:42 | <Guest_8> | thanks for helping me out ski |
| 19:18:46 | <ski> | np |
| 19:18:48 | <Guest_8> | I love you man |
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| 19:48:20 | <koz_> | What's the easiest way to get a NominalDiffTime as a _whole_ number of milliseconds? |
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| 19:50:56 | <[exa]> | I like how time-difference question often tend not to have a reasonable solution |
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| 19:51:48 | <koz_> | [exa]: Well, 'reasonable' is relative the situation. |
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| 19:53:05 | <[exa]> | anyway you can convert the N.D.T. to Pico which is Fixed E12 (iirc), from which you should be able to get a workable Integer |
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| 19:53:29 | <koz_> | [exa]: Yeah, just realized nominalDiffTimeToSeconds returns picoseconds, not seconds... |
| 19:53:40 | <koz_> | :t realToFrac |
| 19:53:42 | <lambdabot> | (Real a, Fractional b) => a -> b |
| 19:53:52 | <[exa]> | they have their own div' and mod' btw |
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| 20:09:58 | hackage | mtl-uplift 0.1.0.0 - Lift substacks of monad transformer stacks https://hackage.haskell.org/package/mtl-uplift-0.1.0.0 (sgschlesinger) |
| 20:10:35 | <koz_> | "... but just to know which monad tops it" |
| 20:10:38 | koz_ | giggles |
| 20:11:14 | <[exa]> | monad stacks now have substacks?! |
| 20:11:17 | <glguy> | koz_: multiply by 1000 and round |
| 20:11:18 | <[exa]> | man |
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| 20:13:56 | <glguy> | % :t \x -> round (x * 1000 :: NominalDiffTime) :: Integer |
| 20:13:56 | <yahb> | glguy: NominalDiffTime -> Integer |
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| 20:29:45 | <fluturel> | dsal: you were the one that made that GoPro thing-a-magic in Haskell, right? |
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| 20:30:14 | <dsal> | fluturel: Yeah. Got some good use out of it today, because I filmed myself making a couple bullets and the camera split up my video. |
| 20:30:48 | <koz_> | dsal: ... wait, like, _actual bullets_? |
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| 20:30:57 | <fluturel> | that was my question as well |
| 20:31:07 | <fluturel> | how does one make bullets |
| 20:31:11 | <dsal> | I have too many hobbies. https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/mEAok2zq/loading.jpg |
| 20:31:18 | <koz_> | fluturel: Uhh, it's not impossible. |
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| 20:31:26 | <koz_> | Hand loads were a thing for quite a while, and still are. |
| 20:31:28 | <dsal> | I didn't cast the bullets in this case, though. |
| 20:31:30 | <koz_> | It's just fiddly. |
| 20:31:42 | <koz_> | (and obviously, machine-made ones will be much more uniform) |
| 20:32:03 | <maralorn> | fragnix seems to fulfill the Haskell stereotype. Last commit immediately before the icfp talk but since then no activity what so ever. I really don‘t want to complain about it, but I am so exited about the project. |
| 20:32:04 | <dsal> | But I did have to like, use a stupid piece of paper to get powder into the cases I harvested. |
| 20:32:20 | <koz_> | dsal: Is this for like, a historical firearm or something? |
| 20:32:27 | <koz_> | Or for something in a super-weird caliber? |
| 20:32:38 | <fluturel> | I'm not that into guns and stuff, they are pretty illegal and regulated where I'm from, didn't know it was a thing |
| 20:32:41 | <dsal> | Nah, .300 blackout is just kind of expensive and I like learning stuff. |
| 20:32:46 | <koz_> | Ah. |
| 20:33:06 | <koz_> | fluturel: I'm not into guns either, and I'm also from a pretty regulated place, but I'm interested in almost everything. |
| 20:33:23 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 20:33:33 | <dsal> | I like learning in general. The science here is kind of nuts. |
| 20:33:46 | <Rembane> | dsal: How calm do you need to be to pack gun powder into cases? How big is the risk for unintended explosions? |
| 20:34:10 | <sigmaTau> | Not that big if hes telling us about it. |
| 20:34:12 | <dsal> | Most of this stuff is meant to be fairly stable until the right thing happens. |
| 20:34:43 | <fluturel> | dsal: Anyway, my question was: do you want to share the source for the webapp? I don't know if it was in the link you gave me, i kind of lost it |
| 20:34:44 | <dsal> | Yeah, the explosion was controlled and only occurred when and how it was desired. So my little haskell project is archiving my video now. :) |
| 20:34:49 | × | ahri quits (~ahri@178.209.40.84) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)) |
| 20:34:57 | <dsal> | fluturel: Yeah, it's ui in github.com/dustin/gopro |
| 20:35:01 | <Rembane> | dsal: That sounds reassuring. :) |
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| 20:35:07 | <fluturel> | thank youuu |
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| 20:35:11 | <sigmaTau> | Smart people plus explosives has never gone down well in history. |
| 20:35:12 | <sigmaTau> | just saying. |
| 20:35:14 | <dsal> | I kind of want to do a few more things there, but I feel like I might not know how to structure it well. |
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| 20:35:32 | <sigmaTau> | It always ends in a netfilx documentary |
| 20:35:34 | <sigmaTau> | HEH |
| 20:35:35 | <dsal> | heh |
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| 20:35:46 | <dsal> | I'm trying to keep my explosions as small as necessary. |
| 20:36:08 | <dsal> | fluturel: So, I have MonadLogger logging to a broadcast channel that's forked for every inbound websocket connection. |
| 20:36:25 | ← | dead10cc parts (63f22acf@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.99.242.42.207) () |
| 20:36:27 | <fluturel> | koz_: I am also very interested in learning stuff, but guns in particular.. kind of always avoided them |
| 20:36:50 | <dsal> | The web app attaches to that and processes incoming messages into either toasts or a data reload instruction. |
| 20:36:59 | <koz_> | fluturel: I wouldn't wanna actually do anything with that stuff. I just have a weird mind that has to be fed information. |
| 20:37:17 | <koz_> | I literally set yesterday (mostly) on fire to read up on Lamping's optimal reduction algorithm and linear logic and stuff. |
| 20:37:33 | <dsal> | The things I do with guns are a lot safer than the things I do to get my mail. heh |
| 20:37:34 | <koz_> | Apparently, there's an affine version of the lambda calculus that describes computations in P. |
| 20:37:36 | <fluturel> | koz_ : Sameee. Where are you from? |
| 20:37:43 | <koz_> | fluturel: New Zealand. |
| 20:37:47 | <fluturel> | Same in regards to information feeding |
| 20:38:13 | <fluturel> | koz_ : P systems? |
| 20:38:24 | <koz_> | fluturel: No, P as in the complexity class. |
| 20:38:46 | <fluturel> | I just got excited, I know the guy who invented P systems |
| 20:39:56 | <dsal> | fluturel: The app requires authenticating with the upstream service once before you can use it. It'd be nice to be able to have a UI thing allow that, possibly even requiring it on the first use. It's easy to understand how to do this on the haskell side, but it's not obvious to me how to structure Elm programs in something other than a couple of monoliths. |
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| 20:41:25 | <fluturel> | dsal: I wish I knew enough of Elm to help you |
| 20:42:08 | <fluturel> | dsal: Why not write plain javascript? |
| 20:42:25 | <sigmaTau> | Autistic people can code in javascript |
| 20:42:29 | sigmaTau | ducks |
| 20:42:32 | <dsal> | I mostly just use the CLI tools. That directory is as much Elm as I've worked with. The language is fine, but the UI paradigm isn't something I quite get. And their canonical style is rather hideous. |
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| 20:43:26 | <fluturel> | sigmaTau: well, savants in programming can code in quite anything |
| 20:43:37 | koz_ | is on the spectrum. |
| 20:43:39 | <sigmaTau> | This is true. |
| 20:43:41 | <koz_> | (and cannot code JS) |
| 20:43:42 | <dsal> | I did an initial prototype in javascript with crossfilter for the search thing. I really don't like working in javascript and wanted an excuse to learn Elm. I had to write my own crossfilter-like-thing in Elm which was easy enough for what I was doing. The language is certainly nicer, but I'm not sure about their UI model. |
| 20:43:45 | <sigmaTau> | koz lol |
| 20:44:14 | <sigmaTau> | javascript is chaotic. |
| 20:44:17 | <dsal> | I like D3.js, but only the D3 parts. Everything JS is kind of gross to me. |
| 20:44:21 | <sigmaTau> | its like coding with a crayon. |
| 20:44:34 | <koz_> | sigmaTau: If that crayon was on fire. And sentient. And malicious. |
| 20:44:35 | <fluturel> | i fear that once we all die, js is all that will be left from the millions of indian devs |
| 20:44:41 | <sigmaTau> | if anxiety was a programming language it would be js |
| 20:44:48 | <sigmaTau> | koz_ lol yeah |
| 20:45:13 | <dsal> | Lots of metrics show JS as a hugely popular language because every web app has a copy of every other web app + enough of a change to blow out all the LOC metrics. |
| 20:45:29 | <sigmaTau> | >:D |
| 20:45:52 | <fluturel> | LOC metrics are flawed |
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| 20:47:25 | <dsal> | My GoPro project: JavaScript: 79.7%, Haskell: 11.0%, Elm: 7.9%, CSS: 0.9%, HTML: 0.4% |
| 20:47:25 | <dsal> | |
| 20:47:47 | <MarcelineVQ> | you monster |
| 20:47:50 | <dsal> | I probably wrote like, 5 lines of javascript. |
| 20:48:04 | <dsal> | Most of that is generated from Elm, but checked in so you can just clone the repo and have it work. |
| 20:48:17 | <fluturel> | i just learned about let in haskell, and can't help but see similarities to CL everywhere |
| 20:48:20 | <dsal> | So I'm contributing to JS being popular. |
| 20:48:46 | <fluturel> | Can't you compile Elm to webassembly or something? |
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| 20:49:39 | <dsal> | I don't even quite know what that is. I just run their compiler and it spits out javascript. Then they have you run some other command that makes that javascript not huge. |
| 20:49:48 | <[exa]> | Elm compiles to something like javascript-ish |
| 20:51:23 | <dsal> | I deleted the intermediate file and now it's Haskell: 49.7%, Elm: 35.7%, JavaScript: 8.5%, CSS: 3.9%, HTML: 1.7%, Makefile: 0.3%, Nix: 0.2% |
| 20:52:10 | <dsal> | It spits out gopro.js which I run through whatever tool they recommend to get gopro.min.js. I don't use gopro.js anywhere, but it makes my project look like a JS project. I wonder if there's a way to have github ignore files when counting these things.. |
| 20:52:11 | <fluturel> | Apparently there isn't an option to compile to wasm directly, but i see some people are working on it |
| 20:54:05 | × | rockethead quits (~rockethea@2001:41d0:302:2100::6dae) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 20:54:29 | <fluturel> | I'm going back to some more haskell before going to bed |
| 20:54:36 | <dsal> | Oh, they do have a tool to have it ignore stuff. This is good. |
| 20:54:37 | fluturel | realizes no onecares |
| 20:54:58 | <fluturel> | dsal: i thought you were joking. are you? |
| 20:55:09 | <dsal> | fluturel: GoPro Hero 9 is $350 with a year of cloud service. You could record yourself sleeping and upload it to the cloud every morning. |
| 20:55:10 | <dsal> | I never joke. |
| 20:55:38 | <dsal> | But no, they actually have useful ways to tell their junk not to pay attention to files that aren't part of your source. Or to recognize some things differnetly. |
| 20:56:11 | <fluturel> | dsal: i see no reason why i would ever do that |
| 20:56:54 | <fluturel> | dsal: that being said, i would stream myself sleeping if i knew somebody would watch |
| 20:57:12 | <koz_> | fluturel: Lol. |
| 20:57:36 | <ski> | fluturel : `let' is recursive in Haskell, though |
| 20:58:00 | <dsal> | You just have to collect more hobbies. :) I've used mine for diving, recording RC aircraft crashes, 3D prints, teaching yoga, recording music stuff, shooting stuff... whatever else comes up. |
| 20:58:20 | <dsal> | One problem people have when they want to learn Haskell is "what can I do with it?" I just mix all my interests together. |
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| 20:58:52 | <fluturel> | dsal: damn, i wish i had the time to have that many hobbies |
| 20:58:57 | <fluturel> | maybe after uni |
| 20:59:08 | <fluturel> | cause a collosal time is spent for uni |
| 20:59:59 | <fluturel> | colossal* damn you double 's' |
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| 21:00:02 | × | larsivi quits (~larsivi@s91904426.blix.com) () |
| 21:00:24 | <monochrom> | dsal, I am now imagining this meme describing you: "recording RC aircrafts soaring" -> the "nah, no thanks" picture; "recording RC aircrafts crashing" -> the "thumb up, approval" picture. :) |
| 21:01:01 | <dsal> | haha. Crashing RC planes is great because you don't die. |
| 21:02:11 | <fluturel> | ski: i have yet to learn that one detail. I need to know more, please |
| 21:02:54 | <dsal> | let == letrec |
| 21:02:56 | <ski> | > let xs = 0 : ys; ys = 1 : xs in take 5 xs -- fluturel |
| 21:02:59 | <lambdabot> | [0,1,0,1,0] |
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| 21:03:30 | <fluturel> | that's... wow |
| 21:03:54 | <ski> | > let xs = [x | y <- ys,x <- [0,y]]; ys = [1+x | x <- xs] in take 8 xs |
| 21:03:58 | <lambdabot> | *Exception: <<loop>> |
| 21:04:02 | <ski> | ah |
| 21:04:14 | <ski> | > let xs = 0 : tail [x | y <- ys,x <- [0,y]]; ys = [1+x | x <- xs] in take 8 xs |
| 21:04:17 | <lambdabot> | [0,1,0,2,0,1,0,3] |
| 21:05:44 | <dsal> | Hey, this worked. My project now says Haskell: 53.9% and 1% JavaScript. |
| 21:05:45 | <monochrom> | "let" mutually recursive unless you add intermediate "let"s to break up your group. |
| 21:06:09 | <dsal> | Oh, which is correct, because I actually wrote some real JavaScript for AWS Lambda after spending a while trying to figure out how to do something simple in Haskell. |
| 21:06:32 | <dsal> | Huge uphill battle for no real gain other than keeping my hands slightly cleaner. |
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| 21:09:50 | → | Guest_94 joins (5c101100@92.16.17.0) |
| 21:10:39 | <Guest_94> | Hello, I am trying to install Haskell on my Mac however am having some issues |
| 21:10:50 | <Guest_94> | Downloading the latest package list from hackage.haskell.org Installation done!In order to run ghc and cabal, you need to adjust your PATH variable.You may want to source '/Users/School/.ghcup/env' in your shellconfiguration to do so (e.g. ~/.bashrc).Detected bash shell on your system...If you want ghcup to automatically add the required PATH |
| 21:10:50 | <Guest_94> | variable to "/Users/School/.bashrc"answer with YES, otherwise with NO and press ENTER.YESgrep: /Users/School/.bashrc: No such file or directory |
| 21:11:22 | <koz_> | Guest_94: The automagic only works if it can find your .bashrc. |
| 21:11:27 | <koz_> | Which it says doesn't exist. |
| 21:11:33 | <koz_> | I presume you've never had to adjust your PATH? |
| 21:11:41 | <Guest_94> | No sorry I am very new to this |
| 21:11:49 | <Guest_94> | Trying to set it up for a university course |
| 21:13:14 | <koz_> | Guest_94: Create an empty .bashrc in the directory it indicated (/Users/School/), then dump the contexts of /Users/School/.ghcup/env into that file. |
| 21:13:20 | <koz_> | Then open a fresh shell. |
| 21:13:36 | <Guest_94> | Thank you so much |
| 21:13:46 | <Guest_94> | How to create an empty .bashrc ? |
| 21:13:57 | <ski> | koz_ : or source that file, maybe ? |
| 21:13:58 | <koz_> | Guest_94: It's just a text file. |
| 21:13:59 | <fluturel> | create a new file with that name exactly |
| 21:14:08 | <koz_> | ski: sourcing that file would only affect the current shell. |
| 21:14:25 | <fluturel> | 'touch .bashrc' in the shell |
| 21:14:26 | <koz_> | And why bother putting a source command in your .bashrc when you can just... have those exact commands in your .bashrc. |
| 21:14:29 | <ski> | koz_ : not if you put `source /Users/School/.ghcup/env' into `.bashrc' ? |
| 21:14:57 | <koz_> | ski: Yeah, you could do that, but to me it adds a layer of indirection for no good reason. Also, it's not like that file is long or anything. |
| 21:15:13 | <ski> | could `/Users/School/.ghcup/env' change in the future, adding more stuff perhaps ? |
| 21:15:25 | <sclv> | well when you switch versions with ghcup it changes thar env file |
| 21:15:35 | <sclv> | so its to manage multiversion installs |
| 21:15:45 | <koz_> | sclv: OK, yeah, in that case, ski's suggestion is the right one. |
| 21:15:50 | <koz_> | I manually manage GHC versions. |
| 21:15:55 | → | normie joins (~normie@S0106ac202e2069c3.vw.shawcable.net) |
| 21:15:57 | <koz_> | (i.e. using -w) |
| 21:16:12 | <sclv> | it may change symlinks and not that file actually I don’t remember |
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| 21:17:12 | <Guest_94> | Can anyone walk me through in baby steps what I need to do I'm really sorry but pretty confused |
| 21:17:28 | <normie> | sorry, what are you trying to do? |
| 21:17:31 | <koz_> | Guest_94: Do you know how to use a shell as such? |
| 21:17:32 | × | kritzefitz quits (~kritzefit@212.86.56.80) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 21:17:39 | <koz_> | Like, do you know commands like 'cd', 'touch', etc? |
| 21:17:46 | <Guest_94> | Literally no idea |
| 21:17:53 | <maerwald> | sclv: it actually doesn't change that file. That is created by the bootstrap script |
| 21:18:01 | <ski> | Guest_94 : do you know how to edit a file, in a text editor ? |
| 21:18:05 | × | vqrs quits (~vqrs@learnprogramming/regular/vqrs) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 21:18:08 | <Guest_94> | I do |
| 21:18:52 | <ski> | Guest_94 : open your favorite text editor, and save a file `.bashrc' (in `/Users/School') containing the line `source /Users/School/.ghcup/env' |
| 21:18:54 | × | Jesin quits (~Jesin@pool-72-66-101-18.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 21:19:02 | <fluturel> | use your file manager to go to the home folder, right-click and open terminal, write 'touch .bashrc' and write the thing these guys told you to |
| 21:19:10 | <fluturel> | in that file |
| 21:19:25 | <ski> | if you want to, you could first use `touch .bashrc' to create that file (as an empty file), and then change it with your editor |
| 21:19:39 | <fluturel> | yes |
| 21:19:59 | <ski> | (but i think most editors would support creating the file if it wasn't there before, as well ..) |
| 21:20:03 | <normie> | you can just enter "cd" or "cd ~" to go to your home directory |
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| 21:20:56 | <Guest_94> | do you know where to find the file after doing 'touch .bashrc'? |
| 21:21:38 | <ski> | it should be in `/Users/School', assuming that was the current directory in the shell (in the terminal), when you ran the `touch .bashrc' command |
| 21:22:03 | <koz_> | This is why I would follow ski's advice to just use your text editor and put the file in /Users/School that way. |
| 21:22:18 | × | elliott_ quits (~elliott_@pool-100-36-54-163.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 21:22:24 | <koz_> | If you dunno _anything_ about the shell, ignore _any_ suggestions vis a vis touch or cd or whatever, since it'll only make it worse. |
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| 21:22:51 | <Guest_94> | ok I have a file in /users/school which is called '.bashrc' and contains the text 'source /Users/School/.ghcup/env' |
| 21:23:01 | <ski> | after saving the file in your editor, if you type `cat .bashrc' in the shell, it should display (just) : |
| 21:23:04 | <ski> | source /Users/School/.ghcup/env |
| 21:23:44 | <Guest_94> | if i type cat.bashrc I get this |
| 21:23:45 | <Guest_94> | [ -f "/Users/School/.ghcup/env" ] && source "/Users/School/.ghcup/env" # ghcup-env |
| 21:24:24 | <fluturel> | that's fine then |
| 21:24:25 | <ski> | if you enter `pwd', what does it say ? |
| 21:25:23 | <Guest_94> | just '/Users/School' |
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| 21:25:50 | <ski> | ok. possibly you managed to save your `.bashrc' in the editor, in a different place (or forgot to save ?) |
| 21:26:00 | <ski> | anyway, it shouldn't matter, if you have that contents there |
| 21:26:35 | <Guest_94> | I think maybe .bashrc files are hidden? |
| 21:26:46 | <Guest_94> | Because I definitely saved it in /users/school but it doesn't appear in my finder |
| 21:26:47 | <fluturel> | it is in the file manager |
| 21:27:36 | × | takuan quits (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 21:27:57 | <fluturel> | if you want, write in the terminal 'ls -a' and see if it's there. That command shows all files, hidden included |
| 21:27:57 | <ski> | if you type `ls -al' into your shell, you should see it |
| 21:28:32 | <Guest_94> | Oh yeah that worked |
| 21:28:38 | <ski> | (the `l' part shows some more info for each file, like date of last modification, size, &c. without it, you just get a list of file names) |
| 21:28:48 | <Guest_94> | when I now open a new instance of terminal, I get this, is this normal |
| 21:28:56 | <Guest_94> | The default interactive shell is now zsh.To update your account to use zsh, please run `chsh -s /bin/zsh`. |
| 21:29:16 | <fluturel> | what |
| 21:29:27 | <fluturel> | did you install zsh? |
| 21:29:38 | <Guest_94> | I dont even know what that is I don't think so |
| 21:29:49 | <Guest_94> | I was trying to install Haskell |
| 21:29:53 | <ski> | (hm, i think i heard someone say Mac wants to move to zsh as default shell ?) |
| 21:30:04 | <fluturel> | then just to be sure |
| 21:30:13 | × | snakemasterflex quits (~snakemast@213.100.206.23) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 21:30:14 | <fluturel> | find a file named .zshrc |
| 21:30:19 | <fluturel> | in the same directory |
| 21:30:37 | <fluturel> | if it is, paste the 'source' thing there as well |
| 21:30:48 | <yushyin> | ski: I heard the same |
| 21:30:55 | <fluturel> | same steps as before, only the file is named .zshrc now |
| 21:31:08 | <Guest_94> | there doesn't seem to be a file called .zshrc |
| 21:31:56 | <Guest_94> | I have .bashrc and .ghcup |
| 21:31:57 | <normie> | macos has been on zsh for a while now iirc |
| 21:32:18 | × | rcdilorenzo quits (~rcdiloren@cpe-76-182-87-188.nc.res.rr.com) (Quit: rcdilorenzo) |
| 21:32:32 | → | rcdilorenzo joins (~rcdiloren@cpe-76-182-87-188.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 21:32:41 | <ski> | type `printenv SHELL', what does it say ? |
| 21:33:07 | <ski> | or if that doesn't work, try `echo $SHELL' ? |
| 21:33:19 | <Guest_94> | it says '/bin/bash' |
| 21:33:30 | <ski> | hm, so i guess you're still in bash, then |
| 21:33:57 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 21:33:57 | × | mananamenos quits (~mananamen@84.122.202.215.dyn.user.ono.com) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 21:33:57 | <ski> | probably "The default interactive shell is now zsh.To update your account to use zsh, please run `chsh -s /bin/zsh`." is just a nag that they want you to switch to zsh, then |
| 21:34:03 | <justsomeguy> | You probably need to start a new bash shell so it can read the ~/.bashrc configuration file you just edited. |
| 21:34:14 | × | danvet_ quits (~Daniel@2a02:168:57f4:0:efd0:b9e5:5ae6:c2fa) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 21:34:21 | <justsomeguy> | (Or run “source ~/.bashrc”) |
| 21:34:25 | <maerwald> | Guest_94: what does your ~/.bash_profile say? |
| 21:34:44 | <maerwald> | make sure it contains this line: [[ -f ~/.bashrc ]] && source ~/.bashrc |
| 21:34:52 | <Guest_94> | -bash: /Users/School/.bash_profile: Permission denied |
| 21:34:53 | <ski> | maerwald meant, what is the output if you type in `cat ~/.bash_profile' ? |
| 21:35:14 | <Guest_94> | # Setting PATH for Python 3.4# The orginal version is saved in .bash_profile.pysavePATH="/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.4/bin:${PATH}"export PATH# Setting PATH for Python 3.5# The original version is saved in .bash_profile.pysavePATH="/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.5/bin:${PATH}"export PATH |
| 21:35:36 | <Guest_94> | Thanks for your help btw really appreciate it |
| 21:36:33 | <ski> | Guest_94 : did you already start a new terminal with shell, btw ? |
| 21:36:50 | <fluturel> | ski: if the default shell is now zsh, then it kinda says that the shell you are in should already be zsh. Weird wording |
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| 21:37:17 | × | rcdilorenzo quits (~rcdiloren@cpe-76-182-87-188.nc.res.rr.com) (Client Quit) |
| 21:37:21 | <Guest_94> | Sorry what do you mean by 'Did I already start a new terminal with shell'? |
| 21:37:32 | → | rcdilorenzo joins (~rcdiloren@cpe-76-182-87-188.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 21:38:12 | <yushyin> | fluturel: default for new users, not for existing users, hence the `chsh' |
| 21:38:32 | <Guest_94> | Is the problem something to do with it setting PATH for python when I'm trying to install Haskell? |
| 21:39:24 | <fluturel> | Guest_94: no, the PATH holds several paths actually, python doesn't interfere here |
| 21:41:07 | × | falafel quits (~falafel@2605:e000:1527:d491:f090:20fe:cddf:2a1a) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 21:42:33 | × | __monty__ quits (~toonn@unaffiliated/toonn) (Quit: leaving) |
| 21:42:45 | <davve> | 17 |
| 21:43:45 | <Guest_94> | when I type in cat ~/.bashrc |
| 21:43:48 | <Guest_94> | I get this |
| 21:43:53 | <Guest_94> | [ -f "/Users/School/.ghcup/env" ] && source "/Users/School/.ghcup/env" # ghcup-env |
| 21:43:59 | <Guest_94> | Do you know what that means |
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| 21:46:01 | → | falafel joins (~falafel@2605:e000:1527:d491:f090:20fe:cddf:2a1a) |
| 21:46:22 | <ski> | fluturel : well, it seemed that the shell they were in, after starting a new shell, was not zsh, but still bash. so presumably some start-up file that bash runs prints the nag about changing shell to zsh |
| 21:47:30 | → | oisdk joins (~oisdk@2001:bb6:3329:d100:bd22:91d7:f791:22b6) |
| 21:47:31 | <fluturel> | Guest_94: the 'cat' command just prints the contents of the file you give it |
| 21:47:31 | <ski> | Guest_94 : it means that it first checks if the file `/Users/School/.ghcup/env' exists, and if it does, then it executes the shell commands found in that file |
| 21:47:43 | <ski> | Guest_94 : which is more or less what you wanted to happen, anyway |
| 21:48:04 | <ski> | ("it" being the bash shell, sorry) |
| 21:48:13 | <Guest_94> | So i got this message |
| 21:48:14 | <Guest_94> | In order to run ghc and cabal, you need to adjust your PATH variable.You may want to source '/Users/School/.ghcup/env' in your shellconfiguration to do so (e.g. ~/.bashrc). |
| 21:48:30 | <fluturel> | you did that |
| 21:48:35 | <Guest_94> | I thought I had done that |
| 21:48:42 | <ski> | yes, that's done and finished, i thought |
| 21:48:46 | → | ephemeron joins (~ephemeron@unaffiliated/ephemeron) |
| 21:48:57 | <ski> | have you closed the old terminal and shell ? |
| 21:49:00 | <fluturel> | did you restart the shell? |
| 21:49:04 | <Guest_94> | how do you restart the shell |
| 21:49:14 | <fluturel> | close the window, open a new one |
| 21:49:28 | <Guest_94> | yeh i've done that |
| 21:49:30 | <fluturel> | a new terminal window, that is |
| 21:49:34 | <fluturel> | ok |
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| 21:49:49 | × | Orbstheorem quits (~roosember@hellendaal.orbstheorem.ch) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 21:50:50 | <Guest_94> | i was told i should be able to check if it had worked by typing in 'ghci --version' but I just get "Command not found" |
| 21:51:38 | <fluturel> | what does your PATH look like now? 'echo $PATH' |
| 21:51:55 | <maerwald> | Guest_94: did you do what I said wrt ~/.bash_profile? |
| 21:51:58 | ← | ephemeron parts (~ephemeron@unaffiliated/ephemeron) () |
| 21:52:00 | ← | kelvin parts (uid466767@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ymoihyiqzvmzmxqc) () |
| 21:52:05 | <Guest_94> | /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.5/bin:/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.4/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin |
| 21:52:47 | <Guest_94> | when I try to do '~/.bash_profile' it says "Permission Denied" - I am an admin on my MacBook though? |
| 21:53:26 | <fluturel> | it thinks you are trying to execute it |
| 21:53:41 | <maerwald> | Guest_94: no, I said you need to add a line to that file |
| 21:53:55 | <normie> | did you try to open it in a text editor? |
| 21:53:57 | <maerwald> | scroll up and read it |
| 21:54:21 | <normie> | just typing in the name of a file will make your shell try and execute it |
| 21:54:31 | → | mounty joins (~mounty@mail.nextgenerationvoice.com.au) |
| 21:55:28 | <Guest_94> | so what should be in my file called '.bashrc' |
| 21:55:42 | <Guest_94> | at the moment it contains '[ -f "/Users/School/.ghcup/env" ] && source "/Users/School/.ghcup/env" # ghcup-env' |
| 21:55:42 | → | flukiluke1 joins (~flukiluke@84.39.116.180) |
| 21:55:48 | <ski> | `.bash_profile' is a different file from `.bashrc' |
| 21:55:54 | <ski> | i think your `.bashrc' is fine |
| 21:56:00 | <maerwald> | Guest_94: you didn't read what I said |
| 21:56:20 | <Guest_94> | I'm sorry I did its just pretty confusing for me |
| 21:56:23 | → | o1lo01ol1o joins (~o1lo01ol1@bl8-213-81.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 21:56:38 | <ski> | <maerwald> Guest_94: what does your ~/.bash_profile say? |
| 21:56:38 | <fluturel> | no, write '[[ -f ~/.bashrc ]] && source ~/.bashrc' in your .bash_profile |
| 21:56:39 | <ski> | <maerwald> make sure it contains this line: [[ -f ~/.bashrc ]] && source ~/.bashrc |
| 21:56:53 | <ski> | open `.bash_profile' in your text editor |
| 21:57:20 | <ski> | if there isn't already a line like `[[ -f ~/.bashrc ]] && source ~/.bashrc' in it, add such a line |
| 21:57:46 | <yushyin> | all the work just for they to switch to zsh in the near future and zsh sources ~/.zshrc as a login shell and as a non-login shell anyways |
| 21:57:53 | <ski> | (make sure you open `.bash_profile', in your home directory, which presumably is `/Users/School') |
| 21:58:16 | <Guest_94> | what's the best way to open that sorry? |
| 21:58:29 | <Guest_94> | ok here we go |
| 21:58:29 | <fluturel> | Guest_94: any text editor, doesn't matter |
| 21:58:42 | <Guest_94> | it contains this "# Setting PATH for Python 3.4# The orginal version is saved in .bash_profile.pysavePATH="/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.4/bin:${PATH}"export PATH# Setting PATH for Python 3.5# The original version is saved in .bash_profile.pysavePATH="/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.5/bin:${PATH}"export PATH" |
| 21:58:55 | <fluturel> | ok, add that line then |
| 21:58:57 | <fluturel> | [[ -f ~/.bashrc ]] && source ~/.bashrc |
| 21:59:09 | <Guest_94> | Should I delete that stuff above or leave it? |
| 21:59:12 | <ski> | leave it |
| 21:59:13 | <fluturel> | leave it |
| 21:59:27 | <Guest_94> | ok I've added '[[ -f ~/.bashrc ]] && source ~/.bashrc' |
| 21:59:37 | <ski> | then save the file |
| 21:59:38 | <fluturel> | save the file, restart shell |
| 21:59:50 | <Guest_94> | Oh nice that's worked |
| 21:59:54 | <Guest_94> | Haskell seems to be working now |
| 21:59:59 | <normie> | yaaaaaay |
| 22:00:02 | <ski> | `ghci --version' works, now ? |
| 22:00:25 | <koz_> | :t asum |
| 22:00:27 | <lambdabot> | (Foldable t, Alternative f) => t (f a) -> f a |
| 22:00:31 | <Guest_94> | oh shit ahah |
| 22:00:38 | → | cosimone_ joins (~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:b248:7aff:feea:34b6) |
| 22:00:42 | <Guest_94> | 'ghci --version' returns '<interactive>:1:1: error: Variable not in scope: ghci' |
| 22:00:48 | <ski> | hah |
| 22:00:55 | <ski> | yea, you're in GHCi, now |
| 22:00:56 | <fluturel> | you are already in the ghci :) |
| 22:01:11 | <fluturel> | press CMD + D to get out |
| 22:01:14 | <ski> | or `:q' |
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| 22:01:42 | ski | hopes that doesn't get turned into some horrible emoji, in Guest_94's IRC client |
| 22:01:52 | <Guest_94> | ok ':q: worked |
| 22:02:07 | <Guest_94> | perfect it all seems to work now |
| 22:02:07 | × | o1lo01ol1o quits (~o1lo01ol1@bl8-213-81.dsl.telepac.pt) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 22:02:07 | <Guest_94> | The Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation System, version 8.8.4 |
| 22:02:15 | <Guest_94> | I am going to have fun working out what all of this means ahaha |
| 22:02:26 | <Guest_94> | Thank you so much though I really appreciate it thanks for your time |
| 22:02:38 | × | sigmaTau quits (~eat@66.115.146.13) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 22:02:54 | <fluturel> | you are welcome, go have fun with haskell! |
| 22:02:55 | → | kelvin joins (uid466767@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ymoihyiqzvmzmxqc) |
| 22:02:58 | <ski> | Guest_94 : if you have a file with some Haskell code, like e.g. `test.hs', you can start the interactor like `ghci test.hs' to get it to (try to) load the file directly |
| 22:03:13 | <ski> | or you can use `:l test.hs', if you're already inside the interactor |
| 22:03:53 | <ski> | if you've loaded the file, but then you've made some changes to it (in your editor), and saved the file, you can then reload the file in the interactor, just by doing `:r' |
| 22:04:14 | → | Rudd0 joins (~Rudd0@185.189.115.98) |
| 22:04:18 | <ski> | (btw, `:q' is short for `:quit', `:l' for `:load', and `:r' for `:reload') |
| 22:04:35 | → | jedws joins (~jedws@121.209.139.222) |
| 22:04:45 | <Guest_94> | Perfect mate thank you |
| 22:04:59 | × | urdh quits (~urdh@unaffiliated/urdh) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 22:05:05 | <Guest_94> | The guy teaching me Haskell was actually part of the team that invented it |
| 22:05:26 | <ski> | Hughes ? |
| 22:06:09 | <normie> | Jones? |
| 22:06:30 | <normie> | Hudak? |
| 22:06:31 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 22:06:33 | <Guest_94> | He's called Phillip Wadler |
| 22:06:46 | <normie> | mr monad himself |
| 22:06:58 | <ski> | ah :) |
| 22:07:13 | <fluturel> | very nice |
| 22:07:15 | <Guest_94> | What does that mean ahah |
| 22:07:19 | <fluturel> | wish i had your luck |
| 22:07:31 | <ski> | Wadler often has funny research paper titles :) |
| 22:07:54 | <normie> | we have him to thank for the IO monad |
| 22:08:00 | <normie> | absolute chad |
| 22:08:05 | × | mounty quits (~mounty@mail.nextgenerationvoice.com.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 22:09:00 | <ski> | e.g. "How to add laziness to a strict language, without even being odd" by Philip Wadler,Walid Taha,David MacQueen in 1998-09 at <https://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/wadler/topics/language-design.html#lazyinstrict> |
| 22:09:40 | <normie> | I love "Theorems for Free!" |
| 22:09:54 | <koz_> | I think we also have him (at least partially) to thank for type classes? |
| 22:10:14 | <ski> | ("Linear types can change the world!" and "Once upon a type", at <https://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/wadler/topics/linear-logic.html>, are two others) |
| 22:10:33 | <ski> | hm, i think Jones was involved in that ? possibly also Wadler ? |
| 22:10:56 | → | urdh joins (~urdh@unaffiliated/urdh) |
| 22:11:00 | ski | . o O ( <https://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/wadler/topics/type-classes.html> ) |
| 22:11:36 | × | chaosmasttter quits (~chaosmast@p200300c4a7105f01cc6851adcbf57dac.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9) |
| 22:12:10 | <normie> | is Lennart Augustsson on this server by any chance |
| 22:12:50 | <dolio> | Haven't seen him in a while. |
| 22:12:52 | <ski> | he has been, in the past |
| 22:13:23 | <ski> | (also Marlow) |
| 22:13:37 | <Guest_94> | Anyway thanks for your help guys |
| 22:13:44 | <ski> | np, Guest_94 |
| 22:13:47 | <Guest_94> | Maybe ill be back with more questions one day hahah |
| 22:13:54 | × | kelvin quits (uid466767@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ymoihyiqzvmzmxqc) () |
| 22:13:54 | <ski> | you're welcome |
| 22:14:00 | <normie> | djinn just has some small namespace clashes that keep lambdabot from working by default |
| 22:14:14 | <normie> | tell wadler we said thanks :) |
| 22:14:46 | <Guest_94> | for sure :) |
| 22:14:51 | × | Guest_94 quits (5c101100@92.16.17.0) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 22:16:58 | <normie> | so npm has a package called "is-even" that gets something like 2.4 million downloads a month |
| 22:17:17 | <normie> | because apparently it's easier to pull in a dependency instead of just using the modulus operator |
| 22:17:31 | × | Tuplanolla quits (~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-239.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 22:17:41 | <normie> | so I spent a few hours last night coming up with something even more convoluted and disgusting in haskell |
| 22:17:44 | <normie> | https://github.com/dreamsmasher/is-even |
| 22:17:58 | <ski> | i heard there was also a package called `left-pad' |
| 22:18:06 | <normie> | if anyone has any more ideas of how to implement is-even, please let me know |
| 22:18:14 | <normie> | HAHAHAHA the left-pad debacle was so funny |
| 22:18:32 | <pjb> | is-even = not is-odd |
| 22:19:10 | <normie> | I wrote 9 different versions, ranging from state transformers to profunctors to using church numerals |
| 22:19:33 | × | wroathe quits (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 22:19:53 | <ski> | @where evolution -- normie |
| 22:19:54 | <lambdabot> | http://www.willamette.edu/~fruehr/haskell/evolution.html |
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| 22:20:25 | <normie> | hell yeah I forgot about this article |
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| 22:26:14 | <dolio> | Isn't it more expensive to depend on is-even than just writing it? |
| 22:28:09 | <ski> | normie : you have various redundant pairs of brackets, in there |
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| 22:31:13 | × | fluturel quits (~fluturel@86.120.237.180) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 22:33:13 | <normie> | that's the joke, I honestly don't know why the npm ecosystem is so ridiculous |
| 22:33:41 | <hpc> | most of those silly micropackages are written by one guy |
| 22:33:59 | <normie> | but people *use* them |
| 22:34:26 | <hpc> | yeah, that i can't explain |
| 22:34:45 | <normie> | also @ski whereabours are these brackets |
| 22:34:50 | <normie> | in evenProf? |
| 22:34:57 | hackage | achille 0.0.0 - A library for building static site generators https://hackage.haskell.org/package/achille-0.0.0 (flupe) |
| 22:39:30 | <ski> | normie : `_evenState',`<=',`isEven' .. also all the `(Integral a) =>'s which could be just `Integral a =>' |
| 22:39:41 | <ski> | normie : also, you have lots of `$'s i don't like :) |
| 22:40:14 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 22:41:13 | <ski> | e.g. |
| 22:41:21 | <ski> | evenState n = not . head $ evalState (sequence $ replicate (fromIntegral n) _evenState) n |
| 22:41:26 | <ski> | would imho be better as |
| 22:41:35 | <ski> | evenState n = not . head $ evalState (sequence (replicate (fromIntegral n) _evenState)) n |
| 22:41:38 | <ski> | or even |
| 22:41:47 | <ski> | evenState n = (not . head) (evalState (sequence (replicate (fromIntegral n) _evenState)) n) |
| 22:41:59 | <ski> | one could do |
| 22:42:21 | <ski> | evenState n = (not . head . (`evalState` n)) (sequence (replicate (fromIntegral n) _evenState)) |
| 22:42:48 | <ski> | but of course `sequence (replicate n acts)' can be simplified to `replicateM n acts' |
| 22:43:16 | <normie> | I forgot about replicateM, thank you |
| 22:43:58 | <ski> | similarly |
| 22:44:00 | <ski> | (runBool . contr $ (head . dropWhile ((< n) . covar) . iterate dmp) m) False |
| 22:44:03 | <ski> | looks hideous |
| 22:44:09 | <ski> | how about |
| 22:44:40 | <ski> | (runBool . contr . head . dropWhile ((< n) . covar) . iterate dmp) m False |
| 22:44:41 | <ski> | ? |
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| 22:47:45 | <ski> | evenState n = (not . head . (`evalState` n) . replicateM (fromIntegral n)) _evenState -- i guess i might write the previous one like this (possibly inlining `_evenState') |
| 22:48:29 | <normie> | @ski changed evenProf, big thank you |
| 22:48:30 | <lambdabot> | Maybe you meant: wiki src ask |
| 22:48:43 | <normie> | how are you refactoring these so quick |
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| 22:49:49 | <normie> | I like that infix version, saves a "$" |
| 22:50:02 | <ski> | normie : also, it's not a convention/tradition on IRC to adorn people's nicknames with sigils (like `@'). simply mention the nickname, if you want to address someone, or refer to them. e.g. starting the message with the nickname, then a comma or a colon, and the bulk of the message, in the former case |
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| 22:50:33 | <normie> | ah, got it |
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| 22:50:52 | <ski> | (many IRC clients will hilight/alert the user, if their nickname is mentioned at the very start of a message. i think not as many will do it, if the nickname is mentioned elsewhere in a message (e.g. if there's a `@' in front of it)) |
| 22:51:10 | <normie> | I keep forgetting that '@' calls lambdabot |
| 22:51:23 | <ski> | normie : hm, i thought i was actually rather slow at refactoring them (i was looking a bit at another channel, as well) |
| 22:51:47 | <normie> | I think 'evenState n = not . head . evalState (replicateM (fromIntegral n) _evenState) $ n' is the most readable tbh |
| 22:51:57 | <normie> | keeps some semblance of a linear control flow |
| 22:52:49 | <ski> | on IRC, `@' is used to indicate that someone is an operator, in a channel. if you see a list of nicknames joined to a channel, then commonly IRC clients will display operators in the channel, by having `@' in front of their nickname (also often displayed in their messages). (but you should probably not refer to operators in a channel, by prefixing their nickname with `@', just because of that ..) |
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| 22:53:46 | <ski> | evenState n = not (head (evalState (replicateM (fromIntegral n) _evenState) n)) -- isn't too bad, either |
| 22:54:08 | <ski> | (a few nested brackets are nothing to be afraid of) |
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| 22:55:32 | <normie> | nested parentheses aren't a (common) (scheme) for readability ;) |
| 22:55:32 | <ski> | (.. redundant brackets, otoh, tend to annoy me .. unless there's some particular reason to insert them, like emphasizing something, or perhaps not bothering with keeping track of relative precedence of more uncommon operators) |
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| 22:56:23 | <ski> | (and i seldom write any `$'s at all. `BlockArguments' removes most of my uses of `$') |
| 22:56:37 | <normie> | I tend to prefer brackets for typeclass constraints regardless of quantity though |
| 22:57:02 | <ski> | that's okay. at least you're aware that you don't need them, for one constraint |
| 22:57:15 | <normie> | i'll need to add brackets if any subsequent constraints are added anyways |
| 22:57:30 | <ski> | but e.g. it seems that people often don't know that they could write |
| 22:57:34 | <ski> | (S a) <= (S b) = a <= b |
| 22:57:34 | <ski> | as |
| 22:57:38 | <ski> | S a <= S b = a <= b |
| 22:58:12 | <normie> | because the precedence of infix operators is greater than those of constructors? |
| 22:58:27 | <ski> | (similarly, `let (x:xs) = ...' or `case ... of [] -> ...; (x:xs) -> ...' annoy me) |
| 22:58:36 | <solonarv> | s/constructors/function application/, in fact |
| 22:58:57 | <normie> | oh wow |
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| 22:59:26 | <ski> | the "invisible function application operator", "juxtaposition", binds tighter than, has higher precedence than, all (user-defined) infix operators |
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| 23:01:55 | <ski> | (but note that the "syntactic operators" `@' and `~' (and `!', and also record construction syntax) binds tigher than application, in patterns. (also record construction and update syntax, in expressions)) |
| 23:02:55 | <normie> | interesting |
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| 23:03:32 | <ski> | > rootLabel Node {rootLabel = ()} |
| 23:03:35 | <lambdabot> | () |
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| 23:04:52 | <ski> | % let f Node {rootLabel = r,..} = r in f Node {rootLabel = (),subForest = []} |
| 23:04:52 | <yahb> | ski: () |
| 23:05:19 | <normie> | removed the redundant parens in the Peano Ord instance |
| 23:05:29 | <normie> | this channel is awesome |
| 23:05:47 | <ski> | oh, sorry. i missed that `data Peano = S (Peano) | Z' could be just `data Peano = S Peano | Z' |
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| 23:06:32 | <ski> | (and i hope you know that if you have just one type class after `deriving' .. you guessed it, you don't need brackets) |
| 23:07:19 | <normie> | yee I'm aware of that one at least, but I usually find myself coming back to add more derivations anyway |
| 23:07:48 | <normie> | I think it looks cleaner and more consistent if I'm defining multiple data types with different derivations too |
| 23:08:41 | <ski> | mm, it's more common to want to add more `deriving' parts, than to go back later and add more constraints on a signature, i think |
| 23:08:52 | <normie> | looking at the BlockArguments docs right now and damn, how have I not heard of this before |
| 23:08:54 | <normie> | definitely! |
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| 23:09:30 | <ski> | someone mentioned, not too long ago, using `BlockArguments' like : |
| 23:09:40 | <ski> | foo x y do |
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| 23:09:55 | <ski> | long parameter expression .. |
| 23:10:02 | <ski> | .. spanning multiple lines |
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| 23:10:10 | <ski> | more parameters here |
| 23:10:38 | <ski> | > do "look ma, no monads !" |
| 23:10:40 | <lambdabot> | "look ma, no monads !" |
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| 23:12:00 | <normie> | so block arguments lets you use do notation with non-monads? |
| 23:12:07 | <ski> | no |
| 23:12:25 | <ski> | that's a separate generalization that GHC does |
| 23:12:40 | <ski> | (not requiring `do ...' to have a type of the form `m a') |
| 23:12:43 | <normie> | it is cool that you can stage multiple do-blocks on the same column though |
| 23:12:56 | <solonarv> | ski: in fact because record update/construction binds so tightly I like to write it like this: rootLabel Node{ rootLabel = () } |
| 23:13:21 | <ski> | (i guess probably `.. spanning multiple lines' should actually be indented at least one more space, otherwise it'll think it's multiple commands, inside that `do'-expression) |
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| 23:13:52 | <normie> | hs does significant whitespace so much better than python |
| 23:14:02 | <ski> | solonarv : heh, yea. i don't like that placement of spaces, really :) |
| 23:14:27 | <ski> | normie : you can opt out, with explicit `{',`;',`}' |
| 23:15:02 | <ski> | (sometimes i wonder whether some uses of `,' in Haskell would have been better as `;' (which could be implicit, when using layout)) |
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| 23:17:07 | <ski> | (also, sometimes i want to say `MkFoo { blah x = ..x.. }', but have to say `MkFoo { blah = \x -> ..x.. }'. this can be more annoying, if i want to match on the input) |
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| 23:21:48 | <solonarv> | ski: at least you can match on it with \case |
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| 23:24:14 | <ski> | yea |
| 23:24:31 | <ski> | but if there's multiple parameters, then i need to use `curry' or something |
| 23:25:30 | <ski> | (or else nest the `\case's .. but that's not as readable. also enforces strict left-to-right matching) |
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All times are in UTC on 2020-09-27.