Logs on 2020-10-02 (freenode/#haskell)
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| 00:42:17 | <catern> | pretty basic question, but is there any Haskell library where I can say some approximation of "f = F(); dothing(f); g = G(); h = H(); dothing2(g, h)" and have the requests made inside F, G, and H automatically get sent out together at the start? |
| 00:44:55 | <dsal> | I don't understand `F()` |
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| 00:45:25 | <dsal> | Also: What does "request" mean? |
| 00:46:47 | <dsal> | If F, G, and H are meant to be monadic actions that depend on the results of each other, it's not clear what you mean by wanting to send the requests before you have their input. |
| 00:46:52 | <catern> | any kind of request, RPCs over the network, say? |
| 00:47:10 | <catern> | no, they're meant to be actions which don't depend on each others' results |
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| 00:47:35 | <dsal> | Oh. The syntax is confusing. Capitals generally refer to types. |
| 00:47:53 | <dsal> | The async packages has a lot of stuff for implicitly running multiple IO actions concurrently. It'd pretty easily do what you're asking for. |
| 00:48:06 | <dsal> | @package async |
| 00:48:07 | <lambdabot> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/async |
| 00:48:46 | <dsal> | The example at the bottom of the Control.Concurrent.Async docs sound a bit like what you're asking for. |
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| 00:49:28 | <catern> | i'd have to explicitly run things with async though right? i'm more curious about something automatic |
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| 00:51:33 | <infinisil> | catern: The usual way to define variables with do notation won't work for your example |
| 00:51:56 | <infinisil> | Because do notation makes later values able to depend on earlier ones |
| 00:52:20 | <infinisil> | So e.g. you could say `f <- ffun(); g <- gfun(f)` |
| 00:52:50 | <infinisil> | Well actually, that's not entirely true, there's ApplicativeDo |
| 00:53:03 | <infinisil> | Anyways, I think maybe you're looking for Applicative's in general |
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| 00:53:54 | <infinisil> | So you could do `(f, g, h) <- (,,) <$> ffun <*> gfun <*> hfun` |
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| 00:54:25 | <infinisil> | And run that in a context where those are run in parallel |
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| 00:54:39 | <infinisil> | E.g. as dsal suggested with async |
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| 00:55:27 | <infinisil> | catern: And in fact, async has an example for exactly that: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/async-2.2.2/docs/Control-Concurrent-Async.html#t:Concurrently |
| 00:57:08 | <dsal> | Automatically transforming a block into a collection of actions and then running those actions concurrently sounds like a neat idea, and is likely possible, but I'd think it'd be fairly special for your operations. |
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| 00:58:23 | <catern> | infinisil: interesting, thanks! |
| 00:58:35 | <dsal> | Your syntax is confusing me a bit, but it sounds like you want `dothing` and `dothing2` to be actions as well. In which case, why wouldn't they also happen concurrently at the beginning? You'd need a way to build a dependency of actions and run them as concurrently as you could as they are evaluated. Doing that explicitly isn't *super* hard, but doing it magically raises a lot of questions. |
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| 02:18:57 | hackage | Z-Data 0.1.4.2 - Array, vector and text https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Z-Data-0.1.4.2 (winterland) |
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| 03:39:28 | hackage | winery 1.3.1 - A compact, well-typed seralisation format for Haskell values https://hackage.haskell.org/package/winery-1.3.1 (FumiakiKinoshita) |
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| 03:56:28 | hackage | ham 0.1.0.0 - https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ham-0.1.0.0 (ChristianGosch) |
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| 04:18:11 | <hololeap> | class IsFoo f n e where runFoo :: RunFoo n e f |
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| 04:19:52 | <hololeap> | what is the "correct" ordering of type variables for IsFoo _ _ _? `f` is the main type, while `n` and `e` are really just there because RunFoo requires them |
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| 04:21:36 | <hololeap> | does the ordering of type variables for a multi param type class have any significance? |
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| 04:35:02 | <shachaf> | Is there some sort of functionaldependency? |
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| 05:42:58 | hackage | hasql-pipes 0.1.0.1 - A pipe to stream a postgres database cursor in the hasql ecosystem https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hasql-pipes-0.1.0.1 (PaoloVeronelli) |
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| 06:47:50 | <dminuoso> | hololeap: The ordering is not stable/defined as part of an API. |
| 06:48:22 | <dminuoso> | I'd expect it to be `n e f`, but if you need this to be part of the API, use the Proxy pattern |
| 06:48:36 | <dminuoso> | In fact, the ordering already changed once for some situation. |
| 06:49:31 | <dminuoso> | Oh wait, hold on. I misread, for runFoo the ordering is n e f. |
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| 07:56:43 | <Xnuk> | Why do Haskellers prefer naming type variables with just a single character like: `type Over p f s t a b = p a (f b) -> s -> f t`? |
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| 07:58:07 | <opqdonut> | heh that one could definitely use some better names |
| 07:58:36 | <opqdonut> | most type signatures only have 1 or 2 type variables, and the meanings of the variables are so abstract that it's hard to find good names |
| 07:58:45 | <opqdonut> | :t const -- for example here |
| 07:58:47 | <lambdabot> | a -> b -> a |
| 07:59:12 | <opqdonut> | there are also some conventions like f for functor and m for monad |
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| 07:59:37 | <opqdonut> | it's also a cultural thing, people see one-letter type variables so they use them, not necessarily weighing the benefits |
| 08:00:58 | <opqdonut> | wanting to fit a type signature on one line might be an additional reason for short type variable names |
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| 08:01:54 | <lortabac> | I have the impression that the same convention exists in other languages too, ex. List<T>, except that in Haskell we use type variables more often so it's probably more confusing |
| 08:02:07 | <opqdonut> | :t traverse |
| 08:02:09 | <lambdabot> | (Traversable t, Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f (t b) |
| 08:02:29 | <opqdonut> | "traverse :: (Traversable t, Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f (t b)" is almost 80 chars already |
| 08:02:31 | <dminuoso> | Xnuk: Imagine reading that particular type synonym if these were words 3-5 characters long |
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| 08:05:10 | <Xnuk> | dminuoso: It would be more clear reading than pfstab, isn't it? |
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| 08:14:46 | <dminuoso> | Xnuk: Doubtfully |
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| 08:15:17 | <dminuoso> | It would require actively reading, with this you can just build up a mental mind model |
| 08:15:26 | <dminuoso> | And pretty much grok it with a first look |
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| 08:15:54 | <dminuoso> | The one thing I sometimes miss, is operator variables |
| 08:16:02 | <dminuoso> | That is, that'd read much nicer if we could write: |
| 08:16:43 | <dminuoso> | type Over (~>) f s t a b = a ~> (f b) -> s -> f t |
| 08:16:50 | <dminuoso> | (Or something equivalent) |
| 08:17:28 | <dminuoso> | You used to be able to do that for certain situations |
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| 08:17:56 | <dminuoso> | (Maybe that needs some extra parens as well, not quite sure) |
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| 08:45:04 | <jgt> | Xnuk: can you think of better names for those variables? |
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| 09:13:46 | <maralorn> | I am writing a program that is supposed to quickly read the input, do some transformation on it (probably line by line) and then forward it to output. So that I can put nicely into a linux pipeline like grep or sed. |
| 09:14:10 | <maralorn> | Right now I have a very stupid forever loop that reads a line to Text and then prints a line to Text. |
| 09:14:33 | <maralorn> | Any tricks how I can do that more nicely? |
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| 09:17:31 | <dminuoso> | Do what more nicely exactly? |
| 09:17:37 | <dminuoso> | % :t interact |
| 09:17:37 | <yahb> | dminuoso: (String -> String) -> IO () |
| 09:17:41 | <dminuoso> | That? :) |
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| 09:29:57 | hackage | libmpd 0.9.2.0 - An MPD client library. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/libmpd-0.9.2.0 (psibi) |
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| 10:05:23 | <ski> | dminuoso : yes. it was `(a ~> f b) -> s -> f t' |
| 10:06:47 | <ski> | hololeap : order parameters so that partial application makes more sense |
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| 10:13:35 | <tomjaguarpaw> | What is standard practice for getting small PRs to Cabal reviewed? |
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| 10:15:12 | <ski> | (with `IsFoo f n e', you could do `newtype Blah = MkBlah Bork deriving (IsFoo MyF myN)', assuming you have `instance IsFoo MyF MyN Bork'. but perhaps you'd prefer another partial application here, from another ordering, in case such would be useful at all for you) |
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| 10:18:12 | <dminuoso> | tomjaguarpaw: Bribing phadej could work. |
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| 10:20:27 | <dminuoso> | tomjaguarpaw: I find your style harder to read. |
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| 10:28:15 | <tomjaguarpaw> | If you could go to the PR and explain why that would be a good start :) |
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| 10:33:27 | hackage | th-lego 0.1.0.3 - Template Haskell construction utilities https://hackage.haskell.org/package/th-lego-0.1.0.3 (NikitaVolkov) |
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| 10:36:44 | <maralorn> | dminuoso: Does interact split line by line or does it rely on lazyness? |
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| 10:36:51 | <phadej> | dminuoso, tomjaguarpaw for whole of september I was concentrating on polishing 3.4 release, there are still some (but I hope only one in Cabal-the-lib), and GHC-9.0-alpha1 is already out |
| 10:36:59 | <phadej> | so sorry for not context switching |
| 10:37:28 | <hc> | context switching is bad anyway. (I do it everytime I am waiting for the compiler to finish, though ;p ) |
| 10:37:34 | <maralorn> | Also, I would like a solution that preserves terminal controlcode formating. |
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| 10:38:29 | <hc> | maralorn: interact relies on lazyness |
| 10:39:43 | <maralorn> | Other question how can I build a state machine based parser? |
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| 10:41:14 | <maralorn> | Right now I parse a line that could be one of many things with megaparsec and I do it very terribly by having one parser for every possible variant and "try" them one after the otherr. |
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| 10:42:04 | <ski> | perhaps you could try Happy |
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| 10:45:08 | <maralorn> | Is the documentation for happy rendered somewhere? The webpage linked on hackage apparently hasn‘t been updated since 2010 (!) https://www.haskell.org/happy/ |
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| 10:49:43 | <tomjaguarpaw> | phadej: No problem at all. |
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| 10:50:48 | <phadej> | s/some/some bugs |
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| 10:51:54 | <ski> | @hackage happy |
| 10:51:55 | <lambdabot> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/happy |
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| 10:52:20 | <ski> | perhaps |
| 10:52:22 | <ski> | @where bnfc |
| 10:52:22 | <lambdabot> | BNF Converter, http://bnfc.digitalgrammars.com/ |
| 10:52:34 | <ski> | could also be useful, depending on what you want to do |
| 10:52:44 | <ski> | (it uses Happy) |
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| 10:55:55 | <maralorn> | ski: happy seems a bit of an overkill for my purpose. Especially because I want to look at an input stream, see if something in there parses and if not take that line as "raw" and proceed to the next line. |
| 10:56:04 | <perdent> | For all the the integers in the interval [100, 1400] which are a multiple of 20, find the numbers that have a digit sum of 14. The solution to the challenge is the average of all the resulting numbers, rounded up to an integral value. The digit sum of a number is the sum of all decimal digits. For example, the digit sum of 324 is 3+2+4=9. |
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| 10:59:41 | <maralorn> | Or phrased differently: ski, how do I deal with a grammar where a certain input can have multiple generators? |
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| 11:00:13 | <ski> | dunno what you mean by "multiple generators" ? |
| 11:00:16 | <tomsmeding> | maralorn: how hard is it to determine what case the line falls in from looking at the line? |
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| 11:00:29 | <ski> | you mean the grammar is ambiguous ? |
| 11:00:31 | <tomsmeding> | like, would case-switching on head (words line) work? :p |
| 11:00:39 | <ski> | perdent : is it Haskell-related ? |
| 11:01:04 | <perdent> | No ignore it |
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| 11:01:42 | <maralorn> | tomsmeding: It's not that easy. |
| 11:01:44 | <ski> | (you mean you sent it in here, by mistake ?) |
| 11:02:14 | <tomsmeding> | maralorn: okay, what algorithm did you have in mind then, ignoring complexity of implementation? |
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| 11:03:05 | <perdent> | Yeah |
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| 11:03:52 | <maralorn> | tomsmeding: Right now I do this: Look at the line, does it match a) if yes process if no does it match b) if yes ... until if it does not match anything at all process as "raw" |
| 11:04:14 | <maralorn> | The problem is that some of the cases have long common prefixes. |
| 11:04:22 | <tomsmeding> | ah |
| 11:04:31 | <tomsmeding> | long as in? |
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| 11:04:52 | <ski> | maralorn : could you reasonably left-factor those cases ? |
| 11:05:10 | <maralorn> | long as in I don‘t have a performance problem at all, my program works I just want it to be pretty.^^ |
| 11:05:18 | <tomsmeding> | :D |
| 11:05:25 | <maralorn> | ski: I am not sure I know what that means. |
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| 11:06:01 | <tomsmeding> | what ski said, or perhaps use an applicative parser library that includes a decent optimiser (I don't know if that exists)? |
| 11:06:10 | <maralorn> | I have actually solved the trickiest one by having a Parser (Either MatchA MatchB) … |
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| 11:07:03 | <tomsmeding> | I take it that ski meant going from try (string "prefixA" >> return 1) <|> try (string "prefixB" >> return 2) to the following: try (string "prefix" >> ((char 'A' >> return 1) <|> (char 'B' >> return 2)) |
| 11:07:28 | <maralorn> | Ah, nice. |
| 11:07:36 | <ski> | yes |
| 11:08:01 | <tomsmeding> | modulo syntactic details :p |
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| 11:08:46 | <tomsmeding> | but I think that if you can express your parsers in applicative form, a good optimiser would be able to perform that left-factoring automatically |
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| 11:09:06 | <tomsmeding> | but I don't know whether that's actually true, and also I don't know whether such a good library exists |
| 11:09:15 | <maralorn> | Does megaparsec do something like that? |
| 11:09:25 | <tomsmeding> | megaparsec is monadic parsing, right? |
| 11:09:43 | <tomsmeding> | applicative parsing is strictly weaker than monadic parsing, so unless it has two completely distinct parsing engines under the hood, I think it doesn't |
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| 11:10:15 | <tomsmeding> | https://stackoverflow.com/questions/7861903/what-are-the-benefits-of-applicative-parsing-over-monadic-parsing |
| 11:10:15 | <ski> | i suppose you could also try something like <https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.14.0.0/docs/Text-ParserCombinators-ReadP.html> or <https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.14.0.0/docs/Text-ParserCombinators-ReadP.html> |
| 11:10:26 | <tomsmeding> | same link? |
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| 11:12:07 | <tomsmeding> | ski: looks cool, TIL |
| 11:12:58 | hackage | nri-prelude 0.1.0.1 - A Prelude inspired by the Elm programming language https://hackage.haskell.org/package/nri-prelude-0.1.0.1 (JasperWoudenberg) |
| 11:14:36 | <tomsmeding> | ski: is that able to optimise (string "prefixA" >> return 1) +++ (string "prefixB" >> return 2) to something like string "prefix" >> ((char 'A' >> return 1) +++ (char 'B' >> return 2)) ? |
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| 11:15:20 | <tomsmeding> | ah the ReadP representation is CPS'ed, so I guess not |
| 11:16:57 | hackage | fused-effects-readline 0.1.0.1 - A readline-like effect and carrier for fused-effects https://hackage.haskell.org/package/fused-effects-readline-0.1.0.1 (robrix) |
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| 11:17:42 | <tomsmeding> | or perhaps it does, there's some magic going on with the P type |
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| 11:21:04 | <maralorn> | I think I need interact where the function can be IO … |
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| 11:21:28 | <tomsmeding> | okay so it kind of does: the implementation of +++ via <|> does combine Look, and later Get values, but I think there's still some kind of double work performed but not sure |
| 11:22:05 | <tomsmeding> | :t \f -> getContents >>= f >>= putStr |
| 11:22:07 | <lambdabot> | (String -> IO String) -> IO () |
| 11:22:10 | <tomsmeding> | maralorn: ^ |
| 11:22:12 | <tomsmeding> | :p |
| 11:22:35 | <maralorn> | Also: Looks right.^^ |
| 11:23:18 | <ski> | what `IO' do you want/need ? |
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| 11:23:51 | <maralorn> | ski: I want to e.g. put a current timestamp into my output. |
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| 11:24:31 | <maralorn> | Or query the system for additional info about the input I am getting. |
| 11:24:50 | <maralorn> | I wonder if I should look into a Streaming lib. |
| 11:25:46 | <tomsmeding> | maralorn: caution: that expression doesn't work, it blocks until the entire input is read apparently |
| 11:27:00 | <ski> | if timestamps are always put in the same place in the generated lines, perhaps you could (incrementally) generate a list of `String's, and then insert the timestamps as you output the lines |
| 11:28:06 | <maralorn> | I think my Plan would be right now to do something like having a "Parser [ParseResult]", a function "ParseResult -> IO Text", map that to something like [ParseResult] -> IO [Text] and then return the concatenation of that … |
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| 11:28:27 | hackage | nri-prelude 0.1.0.2 - A Prelude inspired by the Elm programming language https://hackage.haskell.org/package/nri-prelude-0.1.0.2 (JasperWoudenberg) |
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| 11:28:43 | <maralorn> | Where I would write the Parser in a way that could never fail. |
| 11:29:02 | <ski> | tomsmeding : you could sprinkle `unsafeInterleaveIO' :) |
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| 11:30:27 | hackage | nri-env-parser 0.1.0.1 - Read environment variables as settings to build 12-factor apps. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/nri-env-parser-0.1.0.1 (JasperWoudenberg) |
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| 11:30:53 | <tomsmeding> | or use |
| 11:30:59 | <tomsmeding> | :t \f -> getContents >>= mapM_ (f >=> putStrLn) . lines |
| 11:31:00 | <lambdabot> | (String -> IO String) -> IO () |
| 11:31:10 | <tomsmeding> | which runs f for every line :) |
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| 11:32:12 | <maralorn> | tomsmeding: Yeah, but sometimes the Parser needs to consume multiple lines |
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| 11:36:58 | <orzo> | I'm trying to do scalar multiplication with hmatrix's type-safe "static" vectors http://dis.um.es/~alberto/hmatrix/static.html |
| 11:37:05 | <orzo> | i can't figure it out |
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| 11:41:15 | <orzo> | do i have to convert it to a dynamic vector just to multiply it by a scalar? |
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| 11:45:26 | <opqdonut> | orzo: is * perhaps element-wise multiplication? so you could create a constant matrix of the same size and then use * |
| 11:46:07 | <opqdonut> | so something like 'fromInteger 3 * mat' should work as far as I can see |
| 11:46:24 | <opqdonut> | but I'm just curious and reading the docs, I haven't used hmatrix |
| 11:46:27 | <tomsmeding> | orzo: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hmatrix-0.20.0.0/docs/Numeric-LinearAlgebra.html#g:3 seems to suggest '3 * mat' should work |
| 11:46:40 | <tomsmeding> | though that does create a dynamic vector behind the scenes |
| 11:46:58 | <tomsmeding> | (if you follow the Num and >< definitions in the source) |
| 11:47:25 | <tomsmeding> | perhaps Vector fusion does magic and eliminates that intermediate vector? /shrug/ |
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| 11:50:02 | <phadej> | probably no |
| 11:50:35 | <tomsmeding> | ah there is 'scale :: t -> Matrix t -> Matrix t' |
| 11:50:43 | <tomsmeding> | orzo: ^ |
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| 11:52:33 | <tomsmeding> | and that seems to call out to a foreign C function via some detours |
| 11:53:43 | <tomsmeding> | (scale comes from the Linear typeclass) |
| 11:55:28 | hackage | stylish-haskell 0.12.0.0 - Haskell code prettifier https://hackage.haskell.org/package/stylish-haskell-0.12.0.0 (JasperVanDerJeugt) |
| 11:56:46 | <maralorn> | Wait, I can‘t have a lazy Parser, can I? At least parse :: s -> Either (ParseErrorBundle s e) a will be strict in the Either, so it needs to consume all input until it knows, it it succeeded, right? |
| 11:58:08 | <ski> | i guess if you assume your input is well-formed, don't care about potential errors, then you could be more lazy |
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| 12:03:39 | <maralorn> | Yeah, it makes sense in my head. But I don‘t finde a lib which can do it. |
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| 12:03:47 | <maralorn> | Or I don‘t see how to use them to do it. |
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| 12:04:47 | <maralorn> | I think the problem is that I need a Parser type that can say "Success this a is my Result, but oh btw. I haven‘t consumed this string s, so you might wanna look into that" |
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| 12:05:34 | <maralorn> | Huh, I could try that With Parser (a,s).^^ |
| 12:06:05 | <tomjaguarpaw> | What is the canonical location for Cabal documentation? |
| 12:06:22 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Is it cabal.readthedocs.io? |
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| 12:09:06 | <yushyin> | tomjaguarpaw: at least https://www.haskell.org/cabal/ links to https://cabal.readthedocs.io/ so I guess, yes! |
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| 12:10:36 | <ski> | maralorn : `s' would be the remaining input ? |
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| 12:10:56 | <maralorn> | ski: Yeas |
| 12:11:20 | <Axman6> | I thought most parser libraries gave you a way to parse something and also get the remaining input |
| 12:11:32 | <Axman6> | I'm sure Attoparsec does |
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| 12:12:52 | <ski> | yea, they usually do |
| 12:13:05 | <tomjaguarpaw> | yushyin: Thanks |
| 12:13:08 | <maralorn> | Do they? |
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| 12:13:44 | <maralorn> | I see that you can provide more input to a partial parse in attoparsec. And that you can have a "Fail" that gives you the remaining input. |
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| 12:14:06 | <maralorn> | But I don‘t see a function, that gives you a Success with the remaining input. |
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| 12:17:29 | <maralorn> | I am a bit confused, because I know I have seen something like that, but I can‘t find it … |
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| 12:22:27 | <ski> | maralorn : <https://hackage.haskell.org/package/attoparsec-0.13.2.4/docs/Data-Attoparsec-ByteString.html#v:parse> ? |
| 12:23:24 | <maralorn> | Oh, the Done Constructor is different.^^ |
| 12:23:24 | <maralorn> | Sorry for that.^^ |
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| 12:30:28 | hackage | record-dot-preprocessor 0.2.7 - Preprocessor to allow record.field syntax https://hackage.haskell.org/package/record-dot-preprocessor-0.2.7 (NeilMitchell) |
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| 13:02:33 | <maralorn> | Is there a way to flush stdout while writing a lazy Text? |
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| 13:03:49 | <phadej> | you mean, between chunks? |
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| 13:06:37 | <hc> | You could write your own lazy putStr function and do it there, I think |
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| 13:07:43 | <hc> | i.e., get Chunk, write it, flush stdout, unsafeInterleaveIO, repeat |
| 13:09:16 | <ski> | `unsafeInterleaveIO' ? |
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| 13:14:01 | <phadej> | why |
| 13:14:08 | <phadej> | indeed why |
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| 13:26:28 | <maralorn> | yeah, I mean between chunks … |
| 13:26:53 | <maralorn> | but since I am concating them anyways before I can just putStr and flush them one after the other. |
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| 14:28:45 | <Guest18> | Hey guys, common question here: can anyone make an ELI5 for what a monad is? I can't seem to grasp the concept on my own. Yes, I've heard the joke with the endofunctors :) |
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| 14:29:49 | <dolio> | Monads are a way of presenting abstract algebra. |
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| 14:30:44 | <Guest18> | I understand monads are a way of introducing side-effects in a purely functional context. Don't know more than that |
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| 14:31:46 | <Taneb> | Guest18: forget everything you know about them. "IO" is a way of talking about (but not really introducing) side-effects in a purely functional context, and it happens that IO is an example of a monad |
| 14:31:55 | <tbreslein> | well, that is not true though. there are monads that introduce "side-effects", but side-effects aren't an inherent feature to monads |
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| 14:32:06 | <Taneb> | @where typeclassopedia |
| 14:32:06 | <lambdabot> | http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Typeclassopedia |
| 14:32:07 | <tbreslein> | that was @Guest18 |
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| 14:32:24 | <Taneb> | Guest18: Typeclassopedia (see the link that I got lambdabot to write) is what I recommend |
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| 14:32:41 | <Uniaika> | Guest18: I'll try and ELI5 it |
| 14:32:43 | <Taneb> | But it's more "explain it like I'm a maths student" (which I was when I learnt) |
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| 14:33:18 | <Uniaika> | you can have some data in a datatype, and this datatype can implement something akin to the pipe operator in other languages (Elixir, OCaml, F#, maybe PHP one day…) |
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| 14:33:38 | <ski> | Guest18 : monads are used to express "effects" without the "side-" |
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| 14:34:09 | <Uniaika> | this something is the Monad typeclass |
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| 14:34:22 | <Uniaika> | which provides a pipe-like operator called bind, or (>>=) |
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| 14:34:48 | <Uniaika> | now, if you want an ELI10, or ELI15, we can talk about composing effects and stuff |
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| 14:35:05 | <Uniaika> | but at its core, a Monad is a datatype that implements/provides a pipe-like operator |
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| 14:36:06 | <Guest18> | so if i do 'data SomeType = ... deriving (Monad)' I get >>=, which is a pipe operator. By pipe operator, i understand i can redirect the output (the return value?) somewhere else |
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| 14:36:51 | <Guest18> | Uniaika: ok then, do an ELI22, please :)) |
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| 14:36:55 | <hc> | Guest18: you have heard the endofunctor 'joke'... have you also heard the monad tutorial joke? ;) |
| 14:37:15 | <dolio> | Monad cannot be derived. |
| 14:37:28 | <Guest18> | hc: probably, but doesn't ring a bell right now |
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| 14:38:10 | <hc> | Guest18: https://mvanier.livejournal.com/3917.html |
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| 14:38:13 | <Guest18> | dolio: but Uniaika said Monad is a typeclass, aren't all typeclasses derivable? |
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| 14:38:22 | <dolio> | Nope. |
| 14:38:22 | <xsperry> | Guest18 there are many useful monads that have nothing to do with side-effects (or effects). the benefit of monad abstraction is that we can reuse all the generic functions that accept monads (as well as do-syntax) with all of them, without having to rewrite them for each one |
| 14:38:45 | <dolio> | In the report there's only like 8 that are derivable. |
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| 14:39:07 | <hc> | Guest18: oh, see also https://blog.plover.com/prog/burritos.html for the monad tutorial joke ;p |
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| 14:40:26 | <dolio> | Also keep in mind that constantly referencing burritos isn't actually funny. |
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| 14:40:49 | <hc> | dolio: glad that you're here then to lighten up the mood :) |
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| 14:41:23 | <dolio> | :) |
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| 14:41:29 | <Taneb> | (I made the mistake of learning Haskell in 2011-ish, and only learning what a burrito is a while later) |
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| 14:41:35 | <Taneb> | (it's not all that much like a monad) |
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| 14:42:03 | <Guest18> | I'm now gonna look over the link hc sent with the tutorial. Fingers crossed that i understand it |
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| 14:42:07 | <ski> | xsperry : heh, my notion of "effect" includes every monad we can express computationally |
| 14:42:21 | <ski> | Guest18 : how much of basic Haskell do you understand ? |
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| 14:43:12 | <dolio> | ski: Is completion of the rationals to the reals an effect? |
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| 14:44:22 | <Guest18> | Well, I know about types, type classes, creating new types and their constructors, currying, pattern-matching, modules, Maybe. Most recently I've read about maps and sets |
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| 14:45:46 | <Guest18> | ski: Is that enough to understand monads? |
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| 14:47:23 | <tbreslein> | personally, I've only learned about monads after learning about Semigroup, Monoid, Functor, and Applicative, which sounds like a lot, but they all flow into each other, and Monad is basically 5th element of that list |
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| 14:47:26 | <jollygood2> | Guest18_, do you know how to deconstruct do to >>=? |
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| 14:47:52 | <jollygood2> | can you write your own Maybe-like or list-like type and write monad instance for it? |
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| 14:49:13 | <Guest18> | jollygood2: I haven't learned about do, >>=. I know how to write the Maybe type, but nothing about the monad instance for it |
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| 14:49:48 | <jollygood2> | Guest18, you do'nt know about do-syntax yet? |
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| 14:50:47 | <ski> | dolio : probably |
| 14:50:50 | <Guest18> | jollygood2: no |
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| 14:51:23 | <Guest18> | I know about 'let ... in ...'. Is it something like that? |
| 14:51:25 | <ski> | knowing `do' is not a prerequisite |
| 14:52:02 | <ski> | Guest18 : well, you certainly know more (things that a relevant) than some people who're asking about monads, then |
| 14:52:05 | <jollygood2> | no, but it shows where he's at in his journey to learn haskell |
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| 14:53:46 | <ski> | Guest18 : i'd say learn `Functor' first, at least. probably also `Applicative' is a good idea, now that it's a superclass of `Monad'. and having seen `Monoid' (and `Semigroup') shouldn't hurt (although is probably not as essential) |
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| 14:54:31 | <Guest18> | jollygood2: well, i consider myself very much a beginner. As soon as i look over someone else's code, my lack of language knowledge becomes apparent immediately |
| 14:55:11 | <ski> | Guest18 : anyway, a good way to learn about monads is to first learn about particular monads, like `Maybe', list, `Either e', `Writer w', `Reader r', `State s', `Cont o', .. |
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| 14:57:59 | <ski> | Guest18 : you could say monads are a kind of design pattern; or a way to avoid certain kinds of boiler-plate (/ repetitive) code; or akin to an abstract data type interface, which could be implemented in different ways (compare with "queue", you could have different implementations of queues). but that doesn't really tell you what a monad is, in particular |
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| 14:58:05 | <Guest18> | ski: I can't help but notice some of those sound like group theory from algebra. Like you know, a monoid has certain composition operators, that must be commutative, associative and so on. Can't remember the exact conditions, it has been some time since 12th, but then you had groups, rings. I wonder how do those relate to the things you mentioned |
| 14:58:28 | hackage | machines 0.7.1 - Networked stream transducers https://hackage.haskell.org/package/machines-0.7.1 (ryanglscott) |
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| 14:58:39 | <dolio> | Well, if you know about group theory... |
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| 14:58:45 | <ski> | yes, a monoid is "a group that doesn't have to have inverses" |
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| 14:59:37 | <ski> | e.g. keeping a running counter, or a running sum, or appending messages to a log, would have to do with monoids |
| 14:59:53 | <Guest18> | My math professor in highschool used to say that the real numbers wanted to insult the naturals, and told them, "You are not a group, you are a monoid". Sounds funnier in Romanian.. |
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| 15:00:17 | <ski> | a semigroup is "a monoid that doesn't need to have a neutral element". e.g. computing minimum or maximum |
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| 15:00:40 | <ski> | (every group is also a monoid, and every monoid is also a semigroup) |
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| 15:01:21 | <Guest18> | Then it was "You are just a monoid" :) |
| 15:01:22 | <ski> | (btw, neither semigroups, monoids, nor groups, need to have a commutative combination/composition operator) |
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| 15:01:46 | <Guest18> | I see |
| 15:02:08 | <Guest18> | Interesting, I wish I remembered more group theory then.. |
| 15:02:20 | <Guest18> | I need to relearn it |
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| 15:02:38 | <ski> | well, natural numbers form a rig ("a ring that doen't need to have an additive i n verse, n egation") |
| 15:03:25 | <ski> | (sometimes aka "semiring") |
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| 15:06:52 | <ski> | Guest18 : if you want a quick and short tutorial on monads, i'd suggest "What the hell are Monads?" by Noel Winstanley in 1999 (one of the first monad tutorials) at <http://www-users.mat.uni.torun.pl/~fly/materialy/fp/haskell-doc/Monads.html> |
| 15:07:14 | <ski> | Guest18 : it's by no means complete, but could give you an idea of what they're about |
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| 15:13:41 | <dolio> | Monads are one of the ways mathematicians talk about algebra, too. And it's actually similar to what Haskell programmers use them for. |
| 15:14:14 | <dolio> | There is a monad that characterises the 'extra operations' on top of sets that an algebra (group, ring, etc.) has. |
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| 15:15:50 | <dolio> | And Haskell programmers often find it convenient to work in an 'extended language' that has operations (throw/catch, get/put, etc.) that don't exist in the 'pure' language (because it would be confusing for them to exist there). |
| 15:16:10 | ski | . o O ( Let's use `do'-notation to talk about algebra. ) |
| 15:18:38 | <dolio> | You could. There's at least one exact correspondence with monoids. |
| 15:19:41 | <ski> | mhm ? |
| 15:19:53 | <Guest18> | ski: so.. many.. things.. to bookmark |
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| 15:20:13 | <dolio> | Although I guess monoids are too plain for traditional algebra. Only category theorists care about those. |
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| 15:22:04 | <dolio> | Monoids are what you get by having `zero :: Void` and `bit :: Bool` effects. |
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| 15:22:30 | <TMA> | I remember from my algebra course that monoids were glossed over in one of the lectures. They are merely a stepping stone to groups from that vantage point |
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| 15:23:49 | <ski> | dolio : <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associative_algebra> ? |
| 15:24:29 | <dolio> | Oh yeah, they need to satisfy some equations, of course. |
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| 15:25:48 | <ski> | these are just monoid objects in the monoidal category of vector spaces (with tensor), aiui |
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| 15:26:38 | <dolio> | Well, there's probably a lot of examples like that. |
| 15:26:50 | <dolio> | I meant specifically monoids in Set. |
| 15:27:32 | <ski> | TMA : endomorphisms over a structure naturally form a monoid, i suppose. for an abelian group, you even get a ring |
| 15:27:37 | <ski> | ok |
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| 15:29:22 | <dolio> | I think traditional algebraists thought that monoids in set were too boring to be studied, but there are actually interesting things to say about them. |
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| 15:29:59 | <ski> | what about more restricted classes, that might not be as wild ? |
| 15:30:21 | <ski> | like cancellative monoids, idempotent monoids, .. |
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| 15:30:40 | <dolio> | But, like, rings are monoid objects in Ab. And I think abelian groups are monoid objects in Grp. |
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| 15:33:03 | <dolio> | Oh, maybe it needs to be a group object for the latter. |
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| 15:33:27 | <ski> | hm, perhaps it had something to do with the Erlangen program focusing on automorphisms and isomorphisms, rather than on more general endomorphisms and homomorphisms ? |
| 15:34:15 | <dolio> | I'm not clear on the details. I just know there's someone on the category zulip whose work is about monoids. |
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| 15:35:18 | <dolio> | I think at least some of that is that monoids are a special case of categories, so a lot of things you can do with categories have special properties when you look at just doing them with monoids. |
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| 15:36:02 | <dolio> | Like, "what special properties do presheaves on monoids have"? |
| 15:36:25 | <ski> | hm, `mempty = case zero of' and `x <> y = if bit then y else x' ? |
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| 15:36:42 | <dolio> | Right. |
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| 15:38:32 | <ski> | and then `x = if bit then case zero of else x',`if bit then x else case zero of = x',`if bit then if bit then x else y else z = if bit then x else if bit then y else z' |
| 15:38:33 | <dolio> | MonadPlus is basically the theory of monoids. |
| 15:38:55 | <ski> | "theory", in a Lawvere sense ? |
| 15:39:45 | <dolio> | Yeah. Probably only if you pick the right choice of the laws people have for it. |
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| 15:40:32 | <dolio> | Like left/right cancellation. |
| 15:40:42 | <Guest18> | Say I want to make a safeDiv function that returns a string if the divider is 0, the result otherwise. Is this the way to do it? safeDiv :: (Num a, Fractional a, Eq a) => a -> a -> Either a String |
| 15:40:42 | <Guest18> | safeDiv _ 0 = Right "Ooops!" |
| 15:40:43 | <Guest18> | safeDiv x y = Left $ x/y |
| 15:40:50 | <Guest18> | Like, is there a better way here? |
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| 15:41:17 | <Guest18> | I don't want to use Maybe, but I want to learn how Either functions |
| 15:41:28 | <ski> | i'd flip the order of the alternatives (and not use `$') |
| 15:42:03 | <ski> | also .. `"Ooops!"' is not a that informative failure condition |
| 15:42:09 | <Guest18> | Why flip the order? |
| 15:42:28 | <ski> | because then one can use `fmap' (from `Functor') on the `a' in the result (if present) |
| 15:42:41 | <Guest18> | I know it isn't, just wrote it as an exercise, and wanted it to be a string |
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| 15:42:51 | <cpressey> | Guest18: by convention, Left contains an error value and Right contains the "right answer". |
| 15:42:54 | <ski> | @quote stark |
| 15:42:54 | <lambdabot> | AlanPerlis says: The string is a stark data structure and everywhere it is passed there is much duplication of process. It is a perfect vehicle for hiding information. |
| 15:43:19 | <cpressey> | (when Either is used this way) |
| 15:43:46 | <ski> | (i'd generally try to avoid using `String's to represent failure conditions) |
| 15:44:42 | <Guest18> | safeDiv :: (Num a, Fractional a, Eq a) => a -> a -> Either String a |
| 15:44:43 | <Guest18> | safeDiv _ 0 = Left "The divider is zero, computation failed" |
| 15:44:43 | <Guest18> | safeDiv x y = Right $ x/y |
| 15:44:56 | <Guest18> | Ah, forgot to get rid of $ |
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| 15:45:03 | <Guest18> | Anyway, you mean like this? |
| 15:45:08 | <ski> | Guest18 : "Is this the way to do it?" -- anyway, it also depends on how you intend to use it, e.g. what other possibly-failing operation could you want to use, together with this ? or in what ways (if any) would you want to handle/catch the failure ? |
| 15:45:13 | <ski> | yes |
| 15:45:48 | <ski> | although `Num a' is redundant, since `Num' is a superclass of `Fractional' |
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| 15:46:32 | <Guest18> | Well, I know this is a bad example, because it can only fail in one way. But say for some reason, I hate dividing by 3, so i add a pattern for that and return another string or something to signify that |
| 15:46:48 | <Guest18> | So i can see what actually happened |
| 15:46:59 | <Guest18> | Is this how Either is supposed to be used? |
| 15:47:32 | <ski> | (i've occasionally used e.g. `Either Integer' as a monad, or idiom. aborting some operation involving "attempts", reporting the first `Integer' that failed an attempt) |
| 15:48:22 | <ski> | Guest18 : it's really hard to say, without seeing the context in which you intend to use this |
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| 15:49:37 | <cpressey> | Guest18: Yes, Either can be used this way. |
| 15:49:49 | <ski> | if you just want to represent possible failure, and don't care about a situation where you may want to distinguish between the possible failures of multiple operations, i'd just use `Maybe' |
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| 15:50:27 | <ski> | if you do want to be able to distinguish between failures from different operations, then it could make more sense to use `Either' |
| 15:50:41 | <Guest18> | Ok, then, once i get the result, how do i extract the value? Through pattern-matching? |
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| 15:51:57 | <Uniaika> | Guest18: you may, but helper functions such as `either` exist as well, to inline the case analysis |
| 15:52:03 | <ski> | Guest18 : again, "it depends" |
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| 15:53:44 | <ski> | if this is a "one off" case, sure, you can do that. or things like `maybe',`fromMaybe',`either'. or sometimes things like `catMaybe',`mapMaybe',`partitionEithers' could be what you're looking for |
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| 15:54:31 | <ski> | but often you e.g. want to "short-circuit" a combination of multiple possibly failing operations, so that if one operation fails, the "next one" won't be tried, instead failing the whole combination |
| 15:54:51 | <ski> | Guest18 : this is one thing that `Monad' (and `Applicative') is useful for |
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| 15:59:51 | <ski> | @let safeDiv :: (Integral a,Eq a) => a -> a -> Maybe a; safeDiv _ 0 = Nothing; safeDiv n d = Just (div n d) |
| 15:59:53 | <lambdabot> | Defined. |
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| 16:00:02 | <monochrom> | It always comes down to pattern matching. The only question is do you handwrite every time or do you refactor and reuse. |
| 16:00:04 | <ski> | > maybe "Oops !" show (for [1,2,3,4,5,6] (\d -> safeDiv 12 d)) |
| 16:00:08 | <lambdabot> | "[12,6,4,3,2,2]" |
| 16:00:11 | <ski> | > maybe "Oops !" show (for [1,2,3,0,5,6] (\d -> safeDiv 12 d)) |
| 16:00:14 | <lambdabot> | "Oops !" |
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| 16:01:00 | <ski> | Guest18 : that's an example of performing a sequence of possibly-failing operations, short-circuiting so that it fails (doesn't continue) as soon as an individual operation fails |
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| 16:06:52 | <Guest18> | ski: I see, thank you for the thorough explanation. You too, Uniaika |
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| 16:11:07 | <ski> | > (either id absurd . (`evalStateT` 1) . forever) (do n <- get; when (n >= 1000) (throwError n); put (2 * n)) -- Guest18, another example, doubling (starting from `1'), aborting when we reach at least a thousand |
| 16:11:11 | <lambdabot> | 1024 |
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| 16:12:39 | <ski> | (if we didn't abort with `throwError' (which corresponds to `Nothing' or `Left' above, expressing (short-circuiting) failure), this would go on `forever') |
| 16:15:10 | <ski> | sometimes, one might also have an alternative branch (or a bunch of them), to try, in case the "main computation branch" failed. then one could reach for library operations having to do with `MonadPlus' (or `Alternative') |
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| 16:16:46 | <Guest18> | Thank you, I'm gonna go over your examples later, i need to go now |
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| 16:20:13 | <fresheyeball> | anyone know how to get haddock themes to work? |
| 16:24:58 | hackage | blank-canvas 0.7.3 - HTML5 Canvas Graphics Library https://hackage.haskell.org/package/blank-canvas-0.7.3 (ryanglscott) |
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| 17:16:28 | hackage | vivid 0.4.2.4 - Sound synthesis with SuperCollider https://hackage.haskell.org/package/vivid-0.4.2.4 (TomMurphy) |
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| 17:27:27 | <maralorn> | Is there something nicer than "fold <$> sequence [pure "a", pure "b"]"? |
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| 17:31:00 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Nicer in what way? "ab" is pretty nice. |
| 17:31:02 | <ski> | do you have those `pure's in your code ? |
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| 17:32:38 | <ski> | note that `sequence (fmap pure as) = pure as' (at least when `as' is finite) |
| 17:33:37 | <Carl20> | Hello good evening, I tried to install chocolatey but only 4/5 packages succeeded, ghc failed to install, hoping for some help, thanks! |
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| 17:38:13 | <lordcirth_> | Carl20, was there an error message? |
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| 17:44:38 | <Carl20> | It only showed this one: ghc (exited -1) - Error while running 'C:\ProgramData\chocolatey\lib\ghc\tools\chocolateyInstall.ps1' |
| 17:44:47 | <Carl20> | lordcirth_ |
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| 17:46:58 | <C20> | Within the chocolatey.log, it only showed this one: The install of ghc was NOT successful. |
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| 17:49:59 | <lordcirth_> | C20, maybe you should ask on chocolatey help how to get better logs |
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| 17:54:58 | hackage | structs 0.1.4 - Strict GC'd imperative object-oriented programming with cheap pointers. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/structs-0.1.4 (ryanglscott) |
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| 17:56:55 | <frdg> | I am trying to use lenses and I am not understanding what I need to do. `:t (^.) :: s -> Getting a s a -> a`. To me I should get back a string with this function (which is what I want) but I am not really sure what I am getting. https://dpaste.org/xYe9 |
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| 17:58:07 | <[exa]> | frdg: the lens is usually not called _time |
| 17:58:27 | <[exa]> | (as a first guess, can you try just `time` ?) |
| 17:58:48 | <[exa]> | _time is the accessor function which is certainly not going to work in that place |
| 17:58:52 | <frdg> | [exa]: yup |
| 17:58:58 | <frdg> | thanks |
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| 18:27:58 | hackage | acc 0.1.2 - Sequence optimized for monoidal construction and folding https://hackage.haskell.org/package/acc-0.1.2 (NikitaVolkov) |
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| 19:11:11 | <frdg> | with lenses what is the nicest way to `get, apply a function, set`? |
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| 19:12:24 | <ghoulguy> | frdg: over |
| 19:12:49 | <frdg> | okay thank you |
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| 19:15:43 | <solonarv> | frdg: or %~ as an operator |
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| 19:21:46 | <frdg> | solonarv: I have never seen a non-binary operator. |
| 19:22:11 | <koz_> | frdg: GHC allows you to define unary postfix operators I think? |
| 19:22:18 | <solonarv> | fear not, %~ still isn't a ternary operator |
| 19:22:22 | <koz_> | Not many folks do it, but I think it's technically possible. |
| 19:23:01 | <ghoulguy> | > let (!) = "wow" in (+) ++ (+) |
| 19:23:03 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 19:23:03 | <lambdabot> | • Couldn't match expected type ‘[a]’ |
| 19:23:03 | <lambdabot> | with actual type ‘a0 -> a0 -> a0’ |
| 19:23:07 | <ghoulguy> | :( |
| 19:23:17 | <solonarv> | 'lens %~ func' is a function again; commonly it's applied using & which is a flipped version of $ |
| 19:23:25 | <lordcirth_> | ghoulguy, ... what did you expect that to do? |
| 19:23:35 | <ghoulguy> | > let (!) = "wow" in (!) ++ (!) |
| 19:23:35 | <frdg> | ohh I see what is going on there |
| 19:23:37 | <lambdabot> | "wowwow" |
| 19:23:58 | <geekosaur> | PostfixOperators extension is a thing, yes |
| 19:23:58 | <solonarv> | e.g.: bigRecord & lenses.here %~ func |
| 19:24:49 | <geekosaur> | of curse it plays oddly with operator section syntax, like unary negation does |
| 19:25:03 | <geekosaur> | *of course |
| 19:25:20 | <geekosaur> | although "curse" might also describe it :) |
| 19:28:26 | <cohn> | any Wreq gurus around? |
| 19:28:34 | <ghoulguy> | lordcirth_: to show that there are non-function operator symbols |
| 19:28:38 | <Uniaika> | (~) of irrefutable pattern is technique a non-binary operator |
| 19:28:42 | <Uniaika> | (I love that term) |
| 19:28:48 | <Uniaika> | (but I'll call it "unary") |
| 19:29:26 | <geekosaur> | "technically"? ("technique" seems wrong there) |
| 19:29:26 | <lordcirth_> | ghoulguy, is it really an operator if it's just a value? |
| 19:29:45 | <ghoulguy> | lordcirth_: being a value is more general than being a function |
| 19:29:55 | <ghoulguy> | being composed of symbols like that is what makes something an operator symbol |
| 19:30:14 | <ghoulguy> | The "binary" aspect comes from being used in an infix position |
| 19:30:38 | <lordcirth_> | Just a concrete value, then |
| 19:30:39 | <ghoulguy> | but that's about the syntax at the use-site, not the thing itself |
| 19:30:51 | <ghoulguy> | "concrete value" doesn't really mean anything |
| 19:30:59 | <lordcirth_> | value of concrete kind? |
| 19:31:09 | <lordcirth_> | To me an operator has to operate on something, that is, take at least one argument |
| 19:31:15 | <ghoulguy> | concrete doesn't really mean anything, what are you hoping to get to? |
| 19:31:30 | <lordcirth_> | "concrete" is usually how people pronouce the kind "*", AFAIK |
| 19:31:44 | <lordcirth_> | As opposed to kind "* -> *" |
| 19:31:48 | <ghoulguy> | maybe some do, but that's not an official thing |
| 19:31:50 | <Uniaika> | geekosaur: yeah, I just switched to french and forgot to end the adverb |
| 19:32:15 | <ghoulguy> | lordcirth_: Maybe the term you mean is just "non-function"? |
| 19:32:33 | <lordcirth_> | A non-function value, yes |
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| 19:33:12 | <lordcirth_> | I don't see how something can be considered an operator if it doesn't take an argument. |
| 19:33:32 | <ghoulguy> | lordcirth_: it's just a syntactic construct |
| 19:35:48 | <koz_> | \me o O O (A concrete value: 'x :: Concrete') |
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| 19:36:54 | <ghoulguy> | I suppose you could take the position that nothing "is an operator" but things can be "used as operators" |
| 19:37:27 | <ghoulguy> | (!) would be a variable symbol, f could be a variable identifier, and then if you use either as: x!y or x`f`y you're using them *as an operator* |
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| 19:44:03 | <ski> | "operator" is a syntactic thing, yea |
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| 19:55:19 | <maralorn> | I have a _very_ silly problem. |
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| 19:55:44 | <maralorn> | I have a hunit test. I run it with "runTestTT" |
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| 19:55:58 | <maralorn> | But that returns "()" so I do |
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| 19:56:11 | <maralorn> | main = print <=< runTestTT $ myTest |
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| 19:56:53 | <maralorn> | But now if I run "cabal test" it will say all tests passed. |
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| 19:56:59 | <maralorn> | There has to be a simple solution to this. |
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| 19:57:11 | <maralorn> | But all hunit examples I find use ghci. |
| 19:57:24 | <maralorn> | I mean this is _the_ use case for hunit.^^ |
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| 19:59:04 | <frdg> | what is the way to do multiple lens operations in one expression? This should kind of show what I mean: https://dpaste.org/rs1B |
| 19:59:08 | <maralorn> | https://github.com/hspec/HUnit/blob/master/tests/HUnitTests.hs |
| 19:59:20 | <maralorn> | I can just copy that from there … |
| 19:59:36 | <dolio> | `cabal test` only shows test output if tests fail, I think. |
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| 20:01:01 | <dsal> | frdg: tr & temp %~ (fmap MYP.celsiusToFahr) & feels %~ (fmap MYP.celsiusToFahr) |
| 20:01:41 | <dsal> | I guess you don't need all those parens. |
| 20:02:03 | <frdg> | ok nice |
| 20:02:28 | hackage | uniqueness-periods-vector-examples 0.7.2.0 - Usage examples for the uniqueness-periods-vector series of packages https://hackage.haskell.org/package/uniqueness-periods-vector-examples-0.7.2.0 (OleksandrZhabenko) |
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| 20:09:13 | <solonarv> | note that 'temp %~ fmap func' can also be written as 'temp.mapped %~ func' |
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| 20:18:29 | <ezzieyguywuf> | can anyone recommend a package that will allow me to 'stream' csv data, i.e. like pipes or conduits or w/e? |
| 20:18:37 | <ezzieyguywuf> | i'm interested in reading the data in one row at a time |
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| 20:20:20 | <cohn> | hi, what's the difference between "import qualified Foo.Bar as B" and "import Foo.Bar as B"? |
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| 20:20:45 | <cohn> | I know what a qualified import means but it seems like you don't really need to use the "qualified" keyword |
| 20:21:22 | <dolio> | Without the `qualified`, it imports everything unqualified as well. |
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| 20:21:23 | <ezzieyguywuf> | cohn: when you don't use the 'qualified' keyword, thet `B.SomeFooFunc` and `SomeFooFunc` are both valid. |
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| 20:21:44 | <ezzieyguywuf> | yea what dolio said. |
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| 20:22:00 | <[exa]> | cohn: 'qualified' is mainly for preventing name ambiguity in the "unprefixed" globally available names |
| 20:23:27 | <[exa]> | .....btw why is it called 'qualified'? |
| 20:25:00 | <ezzieyguywuf> | b/c it forces you to 'qualify' any functions from the imported module that you wish to use with a prefix, I imagine |
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| 20:25:44 | <ezzieyguywuf> | `import Foo; import Bar; someFuncInBothFooAndBar` ghc won't know which to use, so it'll ask you to "qualify" the function name with a prefix (in this case the module name) |
| 20:26:10 | <cohn> | ok, thanks everybody. |
| 20:26:54 | <cohn> | coming from python, where qualifying an import is just "import foo as bar", the difference was confusing |
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| 20:28:15 | <ezzieyguywuf> | cohn: it's similar, just adds an extra layer of tunability in haskell |
| 20:28:46 | <ezzieyguywuf> | i.e. to accomplish `import Foo as Bar` in python you'd need two lines, `import Foo; import Foo as Bar` |
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| 20:32:52 | <ezzieyguywuf> | hrm, maybe pipes-csv |
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| 20:35:14 | <cohn> | ezzieyguywuf: true, but I was only curious about qualifying an import. So, seems like I need to use the "qualified" keyword so I don't potentially step on similar-named functions |
| 20:36:09 | <cohn> | so for Python's "import foo.bar as b" I need to do "import qualified Foo.Bar as B" in Haskell |
| 20:36:36 | <ezzieyguywuf> | cohn: yea, I use qualified pretty much every time |
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| 20:36:58 | <ezzieyguywuf> | correction: I use qualified every time I import a whole module. |
| 20:37:14 | <ezzieyguywuf> | cohn: usually I just import exactly what I need, i.e. `import Foo(Bar, Baz)` |
| 20:37:31 | <cohn> | exactly |
| 20:37:57 | <ezzieyguywuf> | cohn: but this is unqualified, so I use Bar and Baz "bare". I prefer this, though, as it keeps my namespace uncluttered |
| 20:39:19 | <cohn> | yea. The hlint utility definitely helps in that regard! |
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| 22:26:27 | hackage | fourmolu 0.2.0.0 - A formatter for Haskell source code https://hackage.haskell.org/package/fourmolu-0.2.0.0 (GeorgeThomas) |
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| 22:57:53 | <monochrom> | http://www.vex.net/~trebla/tmp/hasdoc :) |
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| 23:52:58 | hackage | pandoc-plot 0.9.4.0 - A Pandoc filter to include figures generated from code blocks using your plotting toolkit of choice. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/pandoc-plot-0.9.4.0 (LaurentRDC) |
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All times are in UTC on 2020-10-02.