Logs on 2020-10-10 (freenode/#haskell)
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| 00:03:15 | <Guest18> | the edges of the screen are starting to get blurry |
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| 00:05:42 | <dsal> | Sleep solves a lot of programming problems. |
| 00:07:01 | <Guest18> | Schlafen is fur die Schwachen |
| 00:07:52 | <Guest18> | ist |
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| 00:16:11 | <ski> | Guest18 : why do you need it ? |
| 00:16:49 | ski | . o O ( "Ich will mit mein Kopf arbeiten. Am liebsten möchtest ich schlafen." ) |
| 00:18:20 | <MarcelineVQ> | ichkabibble |
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| 00:19:33 | <Guest18> | I need it to delete the duplicate from the right subtree. If the element i need to delete has two subtrees, i take the minimum from the right subtree, as discussed, and set it as the new root. If i stop there, that minimum element from the right subtree is still there, resulting in a duplicate in my tree |
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| 00:20:26 | <ski> | yes. that's why i thought using a `splitMin' would be nicer there |
| 00:21:02 | <Guest18> | So splitMin would return the minimum and the tree without that minimum, you say |
| 00:21:39 | <Guest18> | i a tuple |
| 00:21:42 | <Guest18> | in* |
| 00:22:31 | <Guest18> | right, ski? |
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| 00:23:42 | <ski> | yes |
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| 00:26:53 | <Guest18> | ok, will do it tomorrow |
| 00:27:00 | <Guest18> | i seriously need to sleep now |
| 00:27:16 | <Guest18> | goodbye, for now |
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| 00:29:43 | <mcmoor> | I think I might re ask my question I have data CT (c :: Color) (a :: *) where E :: CT Black a T :: Valid c c1 c2 => SColor c -> (CT c1 a) -> a -> (CT c2 a) -> CT c aclass Valid (c :: Color) (c1 :: Color) (c2 :: Color) whereinstance Valid Red Black Black instance Valid Black c1 c2 |
| 00:30:44 | <mcmoor> | https://repl.it/repls/DisastrousClientsideDataset#main.hs |
| 00:31:30 | <mcmoor> | I thought that because of Valid the tree only allows Red Black Black or Black (any color) (any color) |
| 00:31:38 | <mcmoor> | But then there's this code |
| 00:31:40 | <mcmoor> | redden :: CT c a -> DT aredden (T B a x y) = DT R a x yredden (T BB a x y) = DT B a x yredden (T R a x y) = DT NB a x yredden (T NB a x y) = error "Nope" |
| 00:31:57 | <mcmoor> | and somehow it's compiled eventhough the tree contatins NB and BB |
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| 00:36:30 | <dolio> | I don't understand the problem. |
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| 00:39:33 | <mcmoor> | the Valid Instance only allows Valid Red Black Black and Valid Black c1 c2 |
| 00:39:59 | <dolio> | Those are the only ones you wrote so far. |
| 00:40:41 | <dolio> | Matching on a GADT doesn't go look for which typeclass instances have been written currently to filter out cases. |
| 00:41:23 | <dolio> | If you want that, then Valid should probably be a GADT. |
| 00:41:41 | <dolio> | E.G. instead of the singleton colors, make it a relation GADT. |
| 00:42:52 | <mcmoor> | Oh really? Interesting |
| 00:43:08 | <mcmoor> | This is not my code and I'm trying to understand how it works |
| 00:43:51 | <ski> | (or a type family ?) |
| 00:43:55 | <mcmoor> | But like in GHCI I can't make something like (T BB a x y) or (T NB a x y) without being scolded by the compiler so I'm confused why it allows this one |
| 00:44:03 | <dolio> | Yeah, there are probably multiple ways to do it. |
| 00:44:13 | <ski> | (a closed one, i mean) |
| 00:48:20 | <dolio> | I think the issue with that would be that GADTs (inductive families) are kind of genuinely different than type families (recursively defined types) in Haskell, because of bottom. |
| 00:49:09 | <dolio> | Or maybe the coverage checker is smart enough for that, I'm not sure. |
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| 00:53:13 | <dolio> | mcmoor: Yeah, you can't build them, because there's no instance in scope to build them. |
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| 00:53:26 | <dolio> | But you can't assume that a function won't receive one. |
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| 00:54:47 | <dolio> | Type classes aren't closed, so in principle, someone could write an instance, build one, and give it to your function. |
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| 00:56:09 | <mcmoor> | Oh yeah I just remember than you can add instances in other program |
| 00:56:36 | <mcmoor> | So now I'm questioning the intent of the code author... Thank you very much! |
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| 00:57:22 | <dolio> | Even if you could reason from all the instances in scope that no others could be declared under GHC's rules, you still can't really assume that. |
| 00:57:36 | <dolio> | Because it's not that sophisticated. |
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| 01:31:58 | hackage | hasql-dynamic-statements 0.3 - Toolkit for constructing Hasql statements dynamically https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hasql-dynamic-statements-0.3 (NikitaVolkov) |
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| 01:50:28 | hackage | Z-IO 0.1.4.0 - Simple and high performance IO toolkit for Haskell https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Z-IO-0.1.4.0 (winterland) |
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| 02:45:24 | <sepi> | Might be a dumb question but if I wanted to pair two numbers, can I just do list comprehension for that |
| 02:45:48 | <ghoulguy> | What would lists have to do with it? |
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| 02:47:39 | <sepi> | Finite state machine doing the union function, for the start state. I believe they just start simontaenously so they are just paired like (s1, s2) |
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| 02:50:34 | <dsal> | pair sounds a lot like a tuple. |
| 02:50:40 | <dsal> | Yeah, that's a tuple. |
| 02:50:51 | <dsal> | Perhaps you could expand your problem statement a bit. |
| 02:51:15 | <c_wraith> | or at least explain why you think lists are involved. that question is still standing. |
| 02:51:31 | <ski> | sepi's doing finite state machines, iirc ? |
| 02:52:21 | <ski> | sepi : if you want to pair corresponding elements, then a plain list comprehension will not do that |
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| 02:52:44 | <ski> | > [(s,t) | s <- [0,1,2],t <- [3,4,5]] |
| 02:52:46 | <lambdabot> | [(0,3),(0,4),(0,5),(1,3),(1,4),(1,5),(2,3),(2,4),(2,5)] |
| 02:52:52 | <ski> | > zip [0,1,2] [3,4,5] |
| 02:52:55 | <lambdabot> | [(0,3),(1,4),(2,5)] |
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| 02:53:32 | <ski> | > [(s,t) | s <- [0,1,2] | t <- [3,4,5]] -- using the `ParallelListComp' language extension |
| 02:53:34 | <lambdabot> | [(0,3),(1,4),(2,5)] |
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| 02:54:21 | <MarcelineVQ> | you've gone mad with power |
| 02:55:15 | <sepi> | https://dpaste.org/d6WS |
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| 02:56:27 | <sepi> | >zip 1 2 |
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| 02:56:36 | <ghoulguy> | > (1, 2) |
| 02:56:38 | <lambdabot> | (1,2) |
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| 03:01:12 | <ski> | how's `(><)' |
| 03:01:17 | <ski> | defined ? |
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| 03:04:27 | <sepi> | From my understanding its a Cartesian product function |
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| 03:04:55 | <sepi> | xs >< ys = [(x,y) | x <- xs, y <- ys]. or is that exactly the same thing of what I was trying to do |
| 03:05:05 | <ski> | yes, that's cartesian product |
| 03:05:13 | <sepi> | 👍 |
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| 03:08:28 | hackage | micro-gateway 1.1.0.1 - A Micro service gateway. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/micro-gateway-1.1.0.1 (Lupino) |
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| 03:19:20 | <sepi> | https://dpaste.org/ajxX |
| 03:20:13 | <sepi> | for trans function am I just literally translating it like that |
| 03:20:23 | <sepi> | The comment has what I'm going off of |
| 03:20:30 | <koz_> | The wince operator? |
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| 03:55:37 | <slack1256> | If I want to do native UI and FRP, which libraries will give me the least friction? |
| 03:56:18 | <slack1256> | I've only done gi-gtk and I liked it. But I haven't seen the FRP light apart from some SwiftUI usage (which is just reactive). |
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| 07:38:53 | <z0> | i just found out you can have infix arguments: f (><) x = x >< x ; f (+) 3 => 6 ; f (*) 3 => 9 |
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| 07:44:09 | <dminuoso> | z0: How is that infix arguments? |
| 07:44:21 | <dminuoso> | And, what is an "infix argument" even? |
| 07:45:28 | hackage | metro 0.1.0.4 - A simple tcp and udp socket server framework https://hackage.haskell.org/package/metro-0.1.0.4 (Lupino) |
| 07:45:55 | <dminuoso> | Oh. |
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| 07:46:14 | <dminuoso> | It felt so intuitive, I didn't even notice what you did there. |
| 07:46:28 | <dminuoso> | z0: What's also cool, is that you can have infix data constructors :) |
| 07:48:17 | <z0> | dminuoso: yup :) i didnt know how to call it besides infix arguments |
| 07:48:47 | <dminuoso> | operator arguments maybe? |
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| 07:50:37 | <z0> | that makes more sense |
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| 07:52:11 | <dminuoso> | z0: Somewhat relatedly, one can define fixity declarations for non-operator variables/data construtors as well. :) |
| 07:55:13 | <z0> | dminuoso: ha, i never thought of that! but how could you not |
| 07:56:25 | <ski> | > let f (><) x = x + x >< x ^ x where infixl 7 >< in f (*) 2 -- :( |
| 07:56:28 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 07:56:28 | <lambdabot> | The fixity signature for ‘><’ lacks an accompanying binding |
| 07:56:28 | <lambdabot> | (The fixity signature must be given where ‘><’ is declared) |
| 07:57:19 | <dminuoso> | % infix 6 `f`; f = (+) -- z0 |
| 07:57:19 | <yahb> | dminuoso: |
| 07:58:35 | <ski> | % :i div |
| 07:58:36 | <yahb> | ski: type Integral :: * -> Constraint; class (Real a, Enum a) => Integral a where; ...; div :: a -> a -> a; ...; -- Defined in `GHC.Real'; infixl 7 `div` |
| 07:58:56 | <dminuoso> | % infixr 5 `Cons`; data List a = Nil | Cons a (List a) deriving Show |
| 07:58:56 | <yahb> | dminuoso: |
| 07:59:03 | <dminuoso> | % 1 `Cons` 2 `Cons` 3 `Cons` Nil -- z0 |
| 07:59:03 | <yahb> | dminuoso: Cons 1 (Cons 2 (Cons 3 Nil)) |
| 07:59:36 | <z0> | is it impossible to define fixity for operator arguments? |
| 07:59:45 | <dminuoso> | Mmm, I think not |
| 08:00:15 | <dminuoso> | I'd have to study the grammar to be sure though |
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| 08:00:25 | <ski> | > let f g x = x + x >< x ^ x where infixl 7 ><; (><) = g in f (*) 2 -- is possible |
| 08:00:29 | <lambdabot> | 10 |
| 08:00:35 | <dminuoso> | Oh. |
| 08:00:44 | <dminuoso> | Right, because it's a declaration then |
| 08:01:17 | <ski> | i'm not sure whether you could associate a fixity declaration to a variable bound by a pattern in a function definition definiendum, though |
| 08:02:09 | <z0> | ski: yeah, that's what i got from your first example |
| 08:02:10 | <ski> | > let f (let infixl 7 >< in (><)) x = x + x >< x ^ x in f (*) 2 -- no workee |
| 08:02:13 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:8: error: |
| 08:02:13 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:8: error: (let ... in ...)-syntax in pattern |
| 08:04:58 | <ski> | mm. for some reason the derived `Show' (and `Read') instances doesn't really seem to take fixity (as opposed to precedence) into account. and not using the infix form, either, of a non-operator constructor identifier, despite having a fixity&precedence declaration in scope at the point of the deriving request |
| 08:05:17 | <ski> | % deriving instance Read a => Read (List a) |
| 08:05:17 | <yahb> | ski: |
| 08:05:40 | <ski> | % (reads :: ReadS (List Int)) "1 `Cons` 2 `Cons` 3 `Cons` Nil" |
| 08:05:41 | <yahb> | ski: [] |
| 08:06:28 | <ski> | (i thought that maybe the `Read' instance would at least accept it, as an alternative syntax. but i guess it doesn't. probably doesn't feel the need to, since the derived `Show' instance can't generate output of that form) |
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| 08:06:54 | <ski> | % (reads :: ReadS (List Int)) "1 `Cons` (2 `Cons` (3 `Cons` Nil))" |
| 08:06:54 | <yahb> | ski: [] |
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| 08:53:43 | <dminuoso> | ski: They do |
| 08:53:51 | <dminuoso> | Consider: |
| 08:53:57 | hackage | uniqueness-periods-vector-examples 0.12.0.0 - Usage examples for the uniqueness-periods-vector series of packages https://hackage.haskell.org/package/uniqueness-periods-vector-examples-0.12.0.0 (OleksandrZhabenko) |
| 08:55:08 | <dminuoso> | % infixr 5 :*:; data l :*: r = l :*: r deriving Show; |
| 08:55:09 | <yahb> | dminuoso: |
| 08:55:13 | <dminuoso> | 1 :*: 2 :*: 3 |
| 08:55:19 | <dminuoso> | % 1 :*: 2 :*: 3 |
| 08:55:19 | <yahb> | dminuoso: 1 :*: (2 :*: 3) |
| 08:55:21 | <dminuoso> | % infixl 5 :*:; data l :*: r = l :*: r deriving Show; |
| 08:55:21 | <yahb> | dminuoso: |
| 08:55:23 | <dminuoso> | % 1 :*: 2 :*: 3 |
| 08:55:23 | <yahb> | dminuoso: (1 :*: 2) :*: 3 |
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| 08:57:28 | <dminuoso> | "The result of show is a syntactically correct Haskell expression containing only constants, given the fixity declarations in force at the point where the type is declared. It contains only the constructor names defined in the data type, parentheses, and spaces." |
| 08:57:30 | <dminuoso> | Mmm |
| 08:57:47 | <dminuoso> | "If the constructor is defined to be an infix operator, then the derived Read instance will parse only infix applications of the constructor (not the prefix form)." |
| 08:57:52 | <dminuoso> | (The latter one also applies to Show) |
| 08:58:03 | <dminuoso> | I guess the Haskell report leaves this a bit open to interpretation |
| 08:58:39 | <dminuoso> | But at the end show doesnt print your ast, which is why something like |
| 08:59:24 | <dminuoso> | show (1 :*: 2 :*: 3) = 1:*: (2 :*: 3) |
| 08:59:39 | <dminuoso> | (or not ast, rather cst) |
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| 09:20:54 | <ski> | dminuoso : hm, doesn't seem to me like they do, from those examples |
| 09:23:59 | <dminuoso> | ski: regarding that latter fact the haskell report is quite clear though |
| 09:24:20 | <dminuoso> | "Associativity is not used to reduce the occurrence of parentheses, although precedence may be" |
| 09:26:39 | <ski> | right, as i thought |
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| 09:27:59 | <ski> | (if/when i do manual `Show' instances, i guess i do tend to take fixity/associativity into account, as well) |
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| 09:30:06 | <dminuoso> | Sure, the haskell report has all these rules about Show/Read for deriving generated only. |
| 09:30:19 | <dminuoso> | So even the `read . show = id` law doesnt matter for handwritten instances |
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| 09:31:33 | <ski> | yea, i do try to ensure that :) |
| 09:31:39 | <ski> | (for finite inputs) |
| 09:32:43 | <dminuoso> | Ultimately I think Show is a misguided typeclass. |
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| 09:33:23 | <dminuoso> | Precisely because it has no proper laws, and with the open-world assumptions and singular instances you generally don't have a sensible obvious canonical instance for most things |
| 09:33:56 | <ski> | elaborate on "open-world assumptions and singular instances" ? |
| 09:34:14 | <dminuoso> | Well, so lets say you have some library with some fancy data type and you provide a Show instance. |
| 09:34:38 | <dminuoso> | Why provide that Show instance at all? You can't possibly know how I need to turn that thing into a string, what formatting I want, what sort of visualizatoin |
| 09:35:02 | <ski> | yea. that's for pretty-printing |
| 09:35:59 | <dminuoso> | For debugging, sure. Though from experience you quickly hit concrete walls anyway, since you quickly have parametrized types with tyfams (solvable, but it adds more annoyance), or you have functions inside them |
| 09:35:59 | <ski> | (i guess it might be nice with some kind of pretty-printing (within the bounds of the syntax of Haskell), could still be nice, when testing, debugging) |
| 09:36:21 | <dminuoso> | Or you have some IO action inside.. things that are just not Showable |
| 09:36:22 | <ski> | yea, that's a problem |
| 09:36:42 | <ski> | it's not really a good candidate for serializatoin |
| 09:37:47 | <dminuoso> | And for pretty printing, a typeclass is a bad fit because any instance you provide resides in the open world, so you either have a very clear canonical way of pretty printing, or you end up with a bunch of `pprFooWithColors, pprFooWithoutDetails` functions |
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| 09:38:56 | <ski> | mm. for something that's supposed to bring different pieces of code, possibly done by different people, together, i think only the former of those two could possibly be reasonable |
| 09:40:18 | <ski> | there's also the option that perhaps we shouldn't really be constructing strings, but some kind of code representation. say `Exp' or `TExp T' |
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| 09:41:06 | <ski> | (this could perhaps also solve, or at least help ameliorate, the issue of having different bindings in scope, possibly qualified imports, maybe with renaming, &c.) |
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| 09:41:42 | <dminuoso> | Do you mean in the sense of TH quotation? |
| 09:41:51 | <ski> | yes. or something akin to that |
| 09:42:08 | <ski> | a representation where identifiers know where they're bound |
| 09:42:16 | <dminuoso> | At the very least with TH you have proper `id ~ antiquotation . quotation` laws. |
| 09:43:06 | <ski> | the MLs don't really have `Show', from what i recall. but using a standard generic printer |
| 09:43:48 | <ski> | (hm, possibly one can register a printer, for a particular type, in the interactor. seem to have a vague memory of something like that) |
| 09:44:30 | <ski> | but then, how'd one handle abstract data types ? one'd like to present values, in terms of exported API |
| 09:44:46 | <dminuoso> | I mean the GHC deriving generated Show instance is a standard generic printer. |
| 09:44:50 | <dcabrejas> | Hi, quick question about testing with stack & quickcheck. I can run tests for my local project by "stack test", however I only have a single test file, is it possible to create multiple test files and then have them all run when running "stack test"? My single file is getting large and I would like to group related tests in different files. Thank |
| 09:44:50 | <dcabrejas> | you. |
| 09:45:04 | <dminuoso> | With the option of manual control, since you can just write an instance by hand if you wanted to. |
| 09:45:12 | <ski> | i guess one alternative, depending, could be to define an alternative type, where the API operations are the data constructors, and then translate a value to that representation, prior to showing |
| 09:45:27 | <ski> | (the showing being provided automatically by the system) |
| 09:45:29 | <dminuoso> | But functions/IO/existentials/etc do bind GHCs hands |
| 09:45:32 | <dminuoso> | *tie |
| 09:46:02 | <dminuoso> | ski: Sure, so something like free monads rather? |
| 09:46:11 | <dminuoso> | (in spirit) |
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| 09:46:32 | <ski> | all the derived `Show' instances together would correspond to the standard printer, in the MLs, was rather the comparision i had in mind |
| 09:47:19 | <ski> | well, this "free" representation would only be used, when you wanted to have an abstract data type |
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| 09:48:46 | <ski> | (e.g. in Mercury, you explicitly declare when a data-type is to have any other than the structural equality (so that the data constructors no longer need to be injective, meaning that matching can, conceptually, give multiple alternative sets of bindings)) |
| 09:50:28 | <dminuoso> | Mmm, how can matching give multiple alternative sets of bindings? |
| 09:50:37 | <dminuoso> | Not sure I understand that |
| 09:54:33 | <ski> | well, let's say `data Ratio a = a :% a'. you define `n0 :% d0 == n1 :% d1 = n0 * d1 == n1 * d0'. if you really mean this, then `(:%)' is not injective, since `1 :% 2 == 2 :% 4' is `True' |
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| 09:55:17 | <ski> | so, conceptually, if you do `let f (n :% d) = ..n..d.. in f (1 :% 2)', you could bind `n = 1; d = 2', but you could just as well bind `n = 2; d = 4', or other choices |
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| 09:56:58 | <dminuoso> | Ah I see |
| 09:56:59 | <ski> | with this comes the proof obligation that if matching the input could produce both `n = n0; d = d0' and `n = n1; d = d1', then, you should prove that the body `..n0..d0..' is equal to the body `..n1..d1..', provided that you only know that `n0 * d1 == n1 * d0' is `True' |
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| 09:58:19 | <ski> | in Haskell, you have to think about this matters, on your own (or fail to do so), with no help from the implementation (since it doesn't know that you're defining a quotient type (having a user-defined equality), or perhaps a subtype, or a combination of the two) |
| 09:58:47 | <ski> | while, in Mercury, the implementation is aware that your data constructors are not injective, and will flag your code as non-deterministic |
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| 09:59:48 | <ski> | you can't really prove to it that, at some point, the non-determinism doesn't matter, is "cancelled out". but you can promise to it, at that point, that that is the case (and that discharges the non-determinism that otherwise would taint every operation that calls the present one) |
| 10:01:08 | <ski> | the reason why Mercury has to do this (if it wants to support quotient types (as represented via abstract data types), sanely), is because in Mercury, equality checking is more closely integrated with semantic equality. conceptually it's the same predicate there, unlike in Haskell, which distinguishes `==' from `=' |
| 10:03:18 | <ski> | (from the POV of Haskell, `(==)' is just another type class method. the implementation doesn't really assume that it respects some laws that one'd expect equality to satisfy. while in Mercury, the implementation does rely on such laws) |
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| 10:12:28 | hackage | servant-docs-simple 0.3.0.0 - Generate endpoints overview for Servant API https://hackage.haskell.org/package/servant-docs-simple-0.3.0.0 (HolmuskTechTeam) |
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| 10:15:58 | <dminuoso> | ski: I guess its two fold since Haskell implementations to assume reflexivity and transitivity of (=) at least. |
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| 10:25:21 | <kuribas> | ski: I was wondering, in dependently typed languages you could require class instances to come with proofs, and then have rewrite rules based on those proofs. |
| 10:25:44 | <kuribas> | ski: it would allow for more optimizations. |
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| 10:29:01 | <ski> | dminuoso : library operations, yea. but not the language implementations themselves, afaik |
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| 10:29:15 | <ski> | kuribas : yea .. possibly |
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| 10:30:35 | <ski> | (then, in HoTT, one could express quotient types with extra "equality constructors" of a data-type. and then, when defining a function, matching on inputs of that type, one'd also need to (forced by the type system, and exhaustiveness checker) prove the well-definedness condition exemplified above) |
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| 10:54:48 | <burritoprogramme> | exercises to do while learning haskell in uni? |
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| 10:55:22 | <no-n> | lift |
| 10:55:38 | <no-n> | lift as much as possible |
| 10:55:56 | <burritoprogramme> | :( |
| 10:55:59 | <Rembane> | There are some good ones but I've forgotten the link. ski, do you know the command to the Stanford course? |
| 10:56:07 | <burritoprogramme> | or eat borritos? |
| 10:56:15 | <no-n> | yes |
| 10:56:18 | <davve> | project euler |
| 10:56:42 | <no-n> | lift burritos if you can |
| 10:57:21 | <Rembane> | burritoprogramme: Lets start with this one: https://wiki.haskell.org/H-99:_Ninety-Nine_Haskell_Problems |
| 10:57:39 | <davve> | ^ all the best students from my CS class did P.E excercies :P |
| 10:58:09 | <davve> | good challenges |
| 10:59:08 | <davve> | not haskell-specific in any way, but haskell is a good place to solve them and there are haskell solutions to everything |
| 10:59:18 | <Squarism> | ghoulguy, hey. You dont happen to be around? I have a question about the addressing solution you proposed. |
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| 11:19:17 | <Zetagon> | burritoprogramme: I found this to be very good: https://www.seas.upenn.edu/~cis194/spring13/lectures.html |
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| 11:19:59 | <Zetagon> | aw they left |
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| 11:26:28 | hackage | uniqueness-periods-vector-properties 0.5.4.0 - Metrices for the maximum element for the uniqueness-periods-vector packages family. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/uniqueness-periods-vector-properties-0.5.4.0 (OleksandrZhabenko) |
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| 11:28:52 | <dminuoso> | ski: GHCs capability to both inline or let-float, is that not using the symmetric proprety of equality? |
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| 11:32:55 | <dminuoso> | mmm.. no I guess not |
| 11:33:28 | <dminuoso> | Well, but transitivity is assumed by the fact that the simplifier could repeatedly inline, and it's valid because equivalence is transitive. |
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| 11:52:57 | hackage | uniqueness-periods-vector-examples 0.12.1.0 - Usage examples for the uniqueness-periods-vector series of packages https://hackage.haskell.org/package/uniqueness-periods-vector-examples-0.12.1.0 (OleksandrZhabenko) |
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| 12:37:28 | hackage | aeson-deriving 0.1.1.2 - data types for compositional, type-directed serialization https://hackage.haskell.org/package/aeson-deriving-0.1.1.2 (Cliff_Harvey) |
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| 12:39:28 | <siraben> | Is there a way to read a value from a Text other than `(read . T.unpack)`? |
| 12:40:59 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Hoogle doesn't give any obvious suggestion: https://www.stackage.org/lts-16.17/hoogle?q=Read+a+%3D%3E+Text+-%3E+a |
| 12:43:08 | <__monty__> | There's Megaparsec (or other parser combinators). |
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| 12:45:57 | <maralorn> | Are there any parsing libraries, where the parser type has a Lift instance? |
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| 12:47:31 | <__monty__> | Isn't being a monad transformer enough? (I'm not familiar.) |
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| 13:00:27 | hackage | vulkan 3.6.9 - Bindings to the Vulkan graphics API. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/vulkan-3.6.9 (jophish) |
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| 13:13:27 | hackage | in-other-words 0.1.0.0 - A higher-order effect system where the sky's the limit https://hackage.haskell.org/package/in-other-words-0.1.0.0 (KingoftheHomeless) |
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| 13:34:51 | sureyeaah | sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/alUKhbzZLSPgQjulLNSJZcLb/message.txt > |
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| 13:37:16 | <sureyeaah> | What am I doing wrong? Also is there a better way of doing what I'm trying to do? |
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| 13:38:04 | <Entroacceptor> | sureyeaah: at first, you probably want to use /usr/bin/cat |
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| 13:38:44 | <Entroacceptor> | echo just outputs its parameters and quits, totally ignoring its stdin. |
| 13:38:59 | <merijn> | sureyeaah: Your message got replaced with some matrix link due to being too long and generally many people ignore those links |
| 13:40:06 | <sureyeaah> | Entroacceptor: Okay, I changed that. Also I realised I should be swapping those handles since `hin` is where I should be writing and not reading from. |
| 13:40:24 | <sureyeaah> | Here's the new code: |
| 13:40:31 | sureyeaah | sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/cWDzSDVdMkOOvCyagGIaEEVF/message.txt > |
| 13:40:54 | sureyeaah | sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/nkbpKzmuWjLpJJbTNMOAbSeS/message.txt > |
| 13:41:07 | sureyeaah | sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/xvdMrDoUPSOkuEEkMcxYCbJO/message.txt > |
| 13:41:16 | <sureyeaah> | This doesn't show any output |
| 13:41:31 | <sureyeaah> | merjin: thanks, better now? |
| 13:41:42 | <sureyeaah> | merijn: |
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| 13:44:57 | hackage | reanimate 1.1.1.0 - Animation library based on SVGs. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/reanimate-1.1.1.0 (DavidHimmelstrup) |
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| 14:06:58 | <Guest_59> | I can't install Haskell on my mac |
| 14:07:27 | hackage | cmaes 0.2.3 - CMA-ES wrapper in Haskell https://hackage.haskell.org/package/cmaes-0.2.3 (DominicSteinitz) |
| 14:09:40 | <Guest_59> | nothing worked |
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| 14:13:56 | <Uniaika> | welp |
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| 14:15:07 | <maerwald> | :D |
| 14:15:57 | <maerwald> | I think these are instances of: oh f**k, I need to hand in the assignment on monday and I don't even have a develompent env -> panic |
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| 14:16:38 | Uniaika | is glad not to have had that kind of relationship to the language |
| 14:17:00 | <maerwald> | that's how you fail the course :D |
| 14:17:07 | <maerwald> | at least in haskell |
| 14:17:29 | <yushyin> | oO |
| 14:17:32 | <yushyin> | again?! |
| 14:18:36 | <maerwald> | Maybe someone should give a lecture about how to adjust your PATH variable before the haskell course :p |
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| 14:19:41 | <yushyin> | yes, that would be absolutely necessary and appropriate |
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| 14:20:03 | <maerwald> | I remember we had a unix/linux course, in fact |
| 14:20:12 | <maerwald> | first year |
| 14:20:21 | <yushyin> | it is getting ridiculous, tbh |
| 14:20:45 | <Uniaika> | IMO, this unofficial course is fairly good https://missing.csail.mit.edu/ |
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| 14:34:45 | <maralorn> | __monty__: I wasn‘t looking for a monad transformer. I was talking about the Lift instance from TH. There it would mean that you could compute your parser at compile time, apparently they call it staging. I was wondering if there already is a lib that does that. |
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| 15:05:13 | <dwts> | dsal: I heard your advice and just got the haskellbook. I just started reading it |
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| 15:15:45 | <merijn> | maralorn: Yes! |
| 15:15:48 | <merijn> | maralorn: Sorta |
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| 15:15:56 | <merijn> | @hackage validated-literals |
| 15:15:56 | <lambdabot> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/validated-literals |
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| 15:20:32 | <maralorn> | merijn: Cool! But I didn‘t mean parsing at compile time. I meant constructing the Parser at compile time but applying it at runtime. |
| 15:21:12 | <merijn> | maralorn: I mean, nothing restricts that library to parsing |
| 15:21:28 | <merijn> | maralorn: You can basically use it to reify any value computed by a pure function :p |
| 15:21:47 | <maralorn> | What? |
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| 15:22:16 | <maralorn> | How does the parser get represented in the generated TH? |
| 15:22:29 | <maralorn> | *generated Code |
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| 15:23:09 | <merijn> | maralorn: By default I use the Lift instance, which is easy since GHC has -XDeriveLift since (I think?) 8.0 |
| 15:23:47 | <maralorn> | But can you derive Lift for a Monadic Parser? |
| 15:24:01 | <merijn> | I mean, I don't see why not? |
| 15:24:36 | <maralorn> | Because you need to be able to reify arbitrary functions? |
| 15:25:00 | <maralorn> | Hm, okay. That means you just write arbitrary functions into the code. |
| 15:25:11 | <merijn> | Well, you don't need to reify arbitrary ones, you need to reify calls to the very specific ones used in the parser |
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| 15:26:42 | <maralorn> | Yeah, I realize, that they are more a problem for the hope of optimizing a parser at compile time. |
| 15:27:28 | hackage | BNFC 2.8.4 - A compiler front-end generator. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/BNFC-2.8.4 (AndreasAbel) |
| 15:27:46 | <maralorn> | But I mean if can reify "Parser Text" I also have to be able to reify "f <$> Parser Text" for all f : Text -> Text, right? |
| 15:27:56 | <maralorn> | But that has nothing to do with being monadic … |
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| 15:40:58 | hackage | type-of-html 1.5.2.0 - High performance type driven html generation. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/type-of-html-1.5.2.0 (knupfer) |
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| 16:26:27 | hackage | lucid-cdn 0.2.1.0 - Curated list of CDN imports for lucid. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/lucid-cdn-0.2.1.0 (locallycompact) |
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| 16:46:27 | hackage | bugsnag-hs 0.2.0.2 - A Bugsnag client for Haskell. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/bugsnag-hs-0.2.0.2 (JasperWoudenberg) |
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| 17:13:07 | <gattytto> | hello |
| 17:13:28 | <gattytto> | I managed to make use of haskell extensions in che web ide, thanks to some help from here and other sources :D |
| 17:14:37 | <gattytto> | now while testing this project https://github.com/gattytto/example-servant-minimal/tree/ghci-dap I am running with an error when trying "stack test" that says: "Not in scope: type constructor or class `ServantError'" |
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| 17:37:19 | <frdg> | what is a known algorithm to determine if a relation, ie `[ (a,a) ]` is reflexive? I can hack it but I am looking for a nicer solution. |
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| 17:45:22 | <bifunc2> | With cereal (serialization library) I'm finding deserializing Word64s is much faster than deserializing Doubles. Is this something you'd expect? |
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| 17:58:49 | <c_wraith> | Depends on the serialization format. I don't know what cereal uses. |
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| 18:01:26 | <koz_> | frdg: For totally arbitrary relations, the only way to 'determine' this is if the relation is finitary. |
| 18:01:38 | <bifunc2> | c_wraith sorry, i forgot to mention i'm doing big-endian for both |
| 18:02:30 | <bifunc2> | (btw i got disconnected there for a while and may not have seen some messages) |
| 18:02:35 | <c_wraith> | bifunc2: ok... the short answer is "yes", especially if you're doing millions of them. |
| 18:02:55 | <c_wraith> | bifunc2: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/cereal-0.5.8.1/docs/src/Data.Serialize.IEEE754.html#wordToDouble |
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| 18:04:10 | <c_wraith> | bifunc2: that call to alloca is a problem for performance, because it's part of the FFI |
| 18:04:41 | <c_wraith> | bifunc2: it has to put it in a separate memory space (outside the nursery) because it needs a stable address in case it's passed to C code |
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| 18:05:24 | <c_wraith> | bifunc2: that means both allocating and collecting it are going to be slower than they would be for something managed entirely in GHC's nursery |
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| 18:05:52 | <bifunc2> | c_wraith has nobody (other than cereal) made anything faster yet? |
| 18:07:45 | <dolio> | The new binary might be faster, but it uses a particular format, not just 'whatever bits you want to spit out'. |
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| 18:08:58 | <dolio> | I guess it's called cborg now? |
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| 18:09:17 | <dolio> | Or serialise? |
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| 18:09:57 | <bifunc2> | hmm, no idea.. |
| 18:10:40 | <ghoulguy> | I think one is the format: cborg and the other is a serialization library using that: serialise |
| 18:10:56 | <ghoulguy> | I like that better as other languages have libraries to read cbor |
| 18:11:07 | <dolio> | Yeah. |
| 18:11:29 | <dolio> | Anyhow, my understanding is that their technique for implementation is more reliable, too. |
| 18:11:48 | <bifunc2> | hmm cereal is not just standard? big-endian for word64 is standard. it uses IEEE754 for doubles |
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| 18:12:25 | <ghoulguy> | cereal is legacy, I would advise people not to use it, it's unmaintained and there's really no reason not to use binary if you don't care much about how you serialize things |
| 18:13:16 | <dolio> | The only reason I ever hear for using cereal is, "it's required for this other library," and usually by people who are telling me because they'd rather not use cereal. |
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| 18:13:28 | <dolio> | Lately, that is. |
| 18:13:29 | <bifunc2> | ah, i did not know that, thanks! |
| 18:13:41 | <bifunc2> | Now the question is, "binary" vs. "store"? |
| 18:13:56 | <bifunc2> | (for machine representation, where explicit endianess is not important) |
| 18:15:26 | <dolio> | Anyhow, one of the other advantages of serialise/cborg, in my understanding, is that they wrote it so that only a fixed loop (which is part of the package) needs to be well optimized by GHC. |
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| 18:16:17 | <dolio> | And that is relatively reliable, whereas the old binary/cereal relied on whatever instances anyone wrote to be optimized in each end-program, which is less reliable. |
| 18:16:54 | <dolio> | So in principle, binary might be slightly faster if everything goes according to plan, but often it doesn't. |
| 18:17:14 | <dolio> | And you have to put in more effort to make sure it does. |
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| 18:19:04 | <dolio> | It's like the usual, "I could write faster assembly code than a compiler," but then you don't. |
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| 18:19:46 | <c_wraith> | I'm really surprised GHC.Exts doesn't export primops for Double# <-> Word64# and Float# <-> Word32# that just ship bytes back and forth instead of doing numeric conversions |
| 18:21:13 | <dolio> | I've got `Word# -> Double#` in GHC.Prim (but not the reverse). |
| 18:21:40 | <dolio> | Not sure how that actually makes reliable sense. |
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| 18:22:21 | <c_wraith> | I'm pretty sure that is a numeric conversion, not byte-shipping |
| 18:22:37 | <dolio> | Oh, that makes sense. |
| 18:23:28 | <dolio> | I guess you need to make byte arrays to convert. |
| 18:23:31 | <phadej> | Does even C make it easy, or is the way is to use `union { .. }` / |
| 18:23:43 | <c_wraith> | union is the only correct way in C |
| 18:23:55 | <c_wraith> | But at least that can be done on the stack |
| 18:23:58 | hackage | hwk 0.2.0 - A modern Haskell based AWK replacement https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hwk-0.2.0 (JensPetersen) |
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| 18:24:21 | <dolio> | I don't think that's actually guaranteed to work in C> |
| 18:24:30 | <dolio> | It would be implementation dependent. |
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| 18:27:36 | <c_wraith> | Prelude GHC.Exts> D# (word2Double# 3##) -> 3.0 |
| 18:27:51 | <dolio> | Okay, yeah. |
| 18:27:59 | <dolio> | That explains why the reverse doesn't exist. |
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| 18:28:04 | <c_wraith> | Today I learned the syntax for Word# and Double# literals |
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| 18:29:54 | <c_wraith> | Amusingly, the name Double# tells you what the syntax is. |
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| 18:30:48 | <bifunc2> | I'm finding deserializing Word64s 10x slower on binary than cereal |
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| 18:30:59 | <bifunc2> | Double deserialization is 2x slower on binary |
| 18:31:04 | <bifunc2> | sad... |
| 18:31:09 | <bifunc2> | hmm |
| 18:31:17 | <bifunc2> | even when cereal is "legacy" |
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| 18:34:22 | <koz_> | dolio: Like basically everything. |
| 18:34:28 | <dolio> | Yes. |
| 18:34:28 | <koz_> | (which isn't straight-up UB) |
| 18:35:15 | <dolio> | But I think whether it works is even independent of whether 'double' is "compatible" with the integer type. |
| 18:35:41 | <dolio> | Which is a second implementation-specific behavior. |
| 18:35:55 | <koz_> | C: Putting the 'lowest' in 'lowest common denominator' since 1976. |
| 18:35:56 | <dolio> | If they are compatible, then pointer casting might work, but I'm unsure. |
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| 18:44:27 | hackage | uncaught-exception 0.1.0 - Customize uncaught exception handling. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/uncaught-exception-0.1.0 (gromak) |
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| 18:46:04 | <dolio> | I think the only thing that's guaranteed to work with a union (aside from reading back exactly what you put in) is structure subtyping. |
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| 19:00:31 | <koz_> | Galaxy brain take: use inline-asm for this. :P |
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| 19:05:58 | <dolio> | I wonder if you can use the 'prim' (or whatever) foreign import to implement it in Haskell. |
| 19:06:16 | <dolio> | Or GHC. |
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| 19:08:33 | <dolio> | Nah, that's probably still too heavy. |
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| 19:42:32 | <frdg> | Would you say this a decent way to express forAll and thereExists? https://dpaste.org/dAXQ |
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| 19:47:54 | <dsal> | frdg: your arguments look backwards to me. |
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| 19:49:48 | <frdg> | dsal. ok. But there is no way to drop an instance for `t` correct? At least I cant think of a way. |
| 19:50:00 | <dsal> | :t or |
| 19:50:03 | <lambdabot> | Foldable t => t Bool -> Bool |
| 19:50:04 | <dsal> | :t all |
| 19:50:06 | <lambdabot> | Foldable t => (a -> Bool) -> t a -> Bool |
| 19:50:37 | <davean> | frdg: you can push the part you're fmapping into the foldr's function along with the (&&) |
| 19:51:02 | <dsal> | Yeah, I realized or isn't quite the same, but I'd do that. |
| 19:51:39 | <frdg> | hmm so there is a way |
| 19:51:58 | <davean> | frdg: and from the Functor laws you know there is a way really |
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| 19:52:43 | <frdg> | alright thank you ill try to figure this out. |
| 19:52:47 | <dsal> | :t \p -> getAny . foldMap (Any . p) |
| 19:52:48 | <lambdabot> | Foldable t => (a -> Bool) -> t a -> Bool |
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| 20:02:20 | <frdg> | davean: I was able to get rid of the functor instance by composing p with (&&) and (||) like you said thanks |
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| 20:03:15 | <davean> | frdg: that composition is basicly what the functor laws say a functor is BTW |
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| 20:03:51 | <frdg> | right. fmap f . fmap g == fmap (f . g) |
| 20:04:16 | <frdg> | this is exactly what I did |
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| 20:15:23 | <dsal> | Oh, I finally looked at the docs. It's `any` not `or`. I get `all` and `and` confused and `or` and `any` confused. |
| 20:15:26 | <dsal> | :t any |
| 20:15:28 | <lambdabot> | Foldable t => (a -> Bool) -> t a -> Bool |
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| 20:16:12 | <dsal> | Oh wow, my guess was right, though. heh `any p = getAny #. foldMap (Any #. p)` |
| 20:16:17 | <dsal> | Except I don't know what `#.` is. |
| 20:16:56 | <dsal> | `(#.) :: Coercible b c => (b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> (a -> c)` -- oh wow. That seems... redundant |
| 20:16:59 | <MarcelineVQ> | infix coerce iirc |
| 20:18:36 | <dolio> | The first argument is a dummy, right? |
| 20:18:48 | <dolio> | Just telling it which b and c to use. |
| 20:19:45 | <dolio> | The presumption is that you will use the half of the isomorphism you want. |
| 20:21:49 | <dsal> | I don't understand why there's coercion at all. You could use it if you didn't want to specify `Any` on the right. or maybe the left. |
| 20:22:13 | <dsal> | % let f p = foldMap (coerce . p); v = f even [1,2,3] in (getAll v, getAny v) -- I mean, you can have the same implementation for both but you do need to mention the semigroup at some point. |
| 20:22:13 | <yahb> | dsal: (False,True) |
| 20:22:37 | <MarcelineVQ> | There's a note about it below the defintion of #. |
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| 20:24:05 | <dsal> | Ha. I don't expect useful information in comments. |
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| 21:02:34 | <foo6> | @lambdabot let (Foo a) = a in abc a |
| 21:02:35 | <lambdabot> | Unknown command, try @list |
| 21:03:02 | <foo6> | @list |
| 21:03:02 | <lambdabot> | What module? Try @listmodules for some ideas. |
| 21:03:20 | <foo6> | @pl let (Foo a) = a in abc a |
| 21:03:20 | <lambdabot> | (line 1, column 5): |
| 21:03:20 | <lambdabot> | unexpected "(" |
| 21:03:20 | <lambdabot> | expecting "()", natural, identifier or "in" |
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| 21:03:46 | <foo6> | @pl let (Foo a) = 123 in abc a |
| 21:03:47 | <lambdabot> | (line 1, column 5): |
| 21:03:47 | <lambdabot> | unexpected "(" |
| 21:03:47 | <lambdabot> | expecting "()", natural, identifier or "in" |
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| 21:09:52 | <crestfallen> | hi what would be the quickest way to put (!>) to use? http://ix.io/2AkS |
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| 21:10:27 | <crestfallen> | it's the same as >=> I believe. I forget if I ever got it to work.. |
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| 21:16:19 | <crestfallen> | a poor place to start reviewing haskell again? |
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| 21:17:46 | <Squarism> | Warning, maybe flawed question. Say I have a class instance : instance MyClass a b. If I want to express that there is an instance for all parameterized types instead of b, how would one do that? |
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| 21:18:49 | <Squarism> | incomprehensible question? |
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| 21:22:22 | <clmg> | I'm running archlinux. I have a lot of `haskell-` packages installed via pacman already. But when I run, e.g., `stack install hakyll`, it starts downloading a lot of packages. I want to use stack to get multiple versions of haskell, but I don't want packages installed both via pacman and via stack. |
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| 21:26:17 | <maerwald> | clmg: what's the question? |
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| 21:26:40 | <dsal> | Squarism: A little. What do you mean "for all parameterized types"? |
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| 21:28:06 | <phadej> | probably something like MyClass a (f b) |
| 21:28:24 | <clmg> | maerwald: how do I figure out why I have `haskell-` packages installed via pacman, when I'm already using stack? |
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| 21:29:48 | <maerwald> | clmg: because you installed them |
| 21:29:48 | <clmg> | Pacman says they are installed because they're required by stack. But shouldn't stack download them itself? Why does stack rely on pacman sometimes and other times not? |
| 21:30:17 | <dsal> | stack shouldn't require much of anything. |
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| 21:31:11 | <maerwald> | clmg: don't install stack via pacman |
| 21:31:13 | <yushyin> | download the static build binary from the stack website and you won't need the haskell- packages ... |
| 21:31:16 | <clmg> | dsal: exactly. so why when I run `pacman -Qi haskell-mustache` does it say: `required by: stack` |
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| 21:31:42 | <yushyin> | of course the pacman stack will depend on some haskell- packages on arch linux |
| 21:32:15 | <clmg> | So I should `-R stack` and curl `get.haskellstack.org` |
| 21:32:17 | <clmg> | right? |
| 21:32:29 | <maerwald> | just download the binary |
| 21:32:41 | <maerwald> | the install script is terrible, it invokes sudo I believe |
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| 21:33:06 | <maerwald> | https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stack/releases/tag/v2.3.3 |
| 21:33:37 | <clmg> | Ah I see (from arch wiki Haskell page): "Alternatively, Stack can be installed through stack-staticAUR package. It provides statically linked binaries, thereby avoiding dozens of haskell-* dependencies." |
| 21:33:52 | <maerwald> | don't do that either |
| 21:34:21 | <maerwald> | then you'll have stack in two places when I tries to auto-upgrade itself I think |
| 21:34:32 | <clmg> | hmmm what's wrong with stack-static? that way I can keep it up to date via AUR |
| 21:34:39 | <MarcelineVQ> | If I was gonna install stack via pacman I'd be by getting stack-bin from the AUR, but just getting the bin and putting in in ~/.local/bin is the most direct method by far |
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| 21:35:13 | <maerwald> | clmg: stack handles updating itself |
| 21:35:26 | <clmg> | ah ok |
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| 21:35:42 | <maerwald> | then you'll come back and ask why it didn't work and then we have to solve PATH issues again |
| 21:35:52 | <Squarism> | dsal, The "GDeliver" instance works well if I instruct the result to be a fully applied paramterized type. But If I I try to say it produces "Step b" as in the recursiveDeliver function i get the compile error at the bottom: https://paste.ofcode.org/6hQCnXKNmVNGkWE32D7Dhx |
| 21:35:59 | <yushyin> | maerwald is a fan of those |
| 21:36:03 | <maerwald> | lol |
| 21:36:11 | maerwald | shoots himself |
| 21:36:35 | <yushyin> | nooo we need you, or rather the mac users need you! |
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| 21:37:36 | <MarcelineVQ> | clmg: with that in mind don't forget to add ~/.local/bin to your PATH if that's where you put stack. By default that's where it places its upgraded self so that's the best spot |
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| 21:39:42 | <clmg> | Will stack install ghc into my home directory by default? I don't want it in root. |
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| 21:40:20 | <maerwald> | sure, it will download as many GHCs at it wants |
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| 21:40:47 | <MarcelineVQ> | it places what it needs in ~/.stack/ |
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| 23:35:27 | hackage | oplang 0.1.0.0 - Compiler for OpLang, an esoteric programming language https://hackage.haskell.org/package/oplang-0.1.0.0 (aionescu) |
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