Logs on 2020-10-15 (freenode/#haskell)
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| 00:32:32 | <larou> | im not sure, maybe there is some way of using the parameters to provide the lower parts |
| 00:33:07 | <larou> | like, the constructor would be self referential, but that one of the parameters gave a variable that then you could also pass down the other branch |
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| 01:00:27 | hackage | co-log-polysemy-formatting 0.1.0.0 - A Polysemy logging effect for high quality (unstructured) logs. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/co-log-polysemy-formatting-0.1.0.0 (AlexChapman) |
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| 04:29:48 | <plast1k_> | /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER plast1k_ rdynhuxvqnec |
| 04:29:58 | <plast1k_> | oop |
| 04:30:22 | <Stanley00> | oops :3 |
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| 04:43:13 | <proofofme> | https://pastebin.com/E97L9507 How do I make sense of these error files? Everything was working until I tried to add imap to my cabal file. I messed around with versions of base ... but no success |
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| 04:44:50 | <lemmih> | proofofme: Looks like the 'imap' package is broken. |
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| 04:45:18 | <proofofme> | which part do you look at to know this? |
| 04:45:40 | <lemmih> | rejecting: base-4.12.0.0/installed-4.12.0.0 (conflict: imap => base>=4.8 |
| 04:45:40 | <lemmih> | && <4.9) |
| 04:46:15 | <lemmih> | This means it can't use base-4.12 (which is the base library for 8.6.5) because 'imap' depends on base-4.8. |
| 04:46:44 | <proofofme> | should I change base versions, and if so, how? |
| 04:46:54 | <proofofme> | I tried, without any success earlier |
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| 04:47:24 | <koz_> | proofofme: base is tied closely to compiler version. |
| 04:47:30 | <koz_> | So you can't really change it. |
| 04:47:36 | <koz_> | What're you after from imap? |
| 04:47:40 | <lemmih> | proofofme: No, the problem is with the version of 'imap' that you're using. There are more recent versions, though. |
| 04:47:52 | <proofofme> | getting and index inside a map function |
| 04:47:57 | <proofofme> | getting an index* |
| 04:48:10 | <lemmih> | proofofme: I don't see the dependency for 'imap' in your cabal file. |
| 04:48:41 | <koz_> | Wait, this imap? http://hackage.haskell.org/package/imap |
| 04:48:53 | <koz_> | That doesn't gel with what you've just said, proofofme . |
| 04:50:07 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 04:50:50 | <proofofme> | I tried several versions of imap in the cabal before I removed it ... forgot that I did actually |
| 04:50:57 | <proofofme> | koz_ in which way? |
| 04:51:10 | <koz_> | You said you wanted 'getting an index inside a map function'. |
| 04:51:20 | <koz_> | If you meant http://hackage.haskell.org/package/imap, then I don't see how that helps. |
| 04:51:47 | <proofofme> | hmm ... wow, good point ... |
| 04:51:49 | <proofofme> | one sec |
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| 04:53:36 | <proofofme> | how would y'all do it? |
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| 04:53:45 | <lemmih> | I think you forgot to save the cabal file after removing the 'imap' dependency. The pasted error message doesn't match the pasted cabal file. |
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| 04:54:12 | <proofofme> | yeah, the cabal file was after I removed imap dependency |
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| 04:55:28 | <lemmih> | Well, then run your executable again and see if it works. |
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| 04:56:12 | <proofofme> | well that works ... but how would y'all get an index inside a map function? |
| 04:56:42 | <lemmih> | I'm not sure what that means. What are you trying to do? |
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| 04:58:13 | <proofofme> | find the numeric index of an element inside a map of elements |
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| 04:59:19 | <lemmih> | > zip [0..] "Hello world" -- Like this? |
| 04:59:21 | <lambdabot> | [(0,'H'),(1,'e'),(2,'l'),(3,'l'),(4,'o'),(5,' '),(6,'w'),(7,'o'),(8,'r'),(9,... |
| 05:00:00 | <lemmih> | > elemIndex 'o' "Hello world" -- Or maybe like this? |
| 05:00:04 | <lambdabot> | Just 4 |
| 05:00:57 | <proofofme> | https://pastebin.com/RPLNgZ03 |
| 05:01:18 | <proofofme> | get which index the needle is in actualDivs |
| 05:02:57 | <lemmih> | I still don't understand what you want but I can assure you that you won't get it from the 'imap' package. :) |
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| 05:03:42 | <proofofme> | return '2', because that's the first index that contains one element of the needle ... for this example, at least |
| 05:05:02 | <zq> | how to go about proving that reverse . concat == concat . reverse . map reverse ? |
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| 05:34:47 | <c_wraith> | zq: start by proving reverse (xs ++ ys) == reverse ys ++ reverse xs |
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| 05:37:11 | <zq> | c_wraith: how would i do that? would dependent lists need to get involved? |
| 05:37:19 | <koz_> | proofofme: So you want to find the poisition at which a certain predicate holds? |
| 05:37:22 | <c_wraith> | just work definitionally |
| 05:37:36 | <c_wraith> | use the definitions of reverse and (++) |
| 05:38:06 | <koz_> | proofofme: So like http://hackage.haskell.org/package/vector-0.12.1.2/docs/Data-Vector.html#v:findIndex ? |
| 05:39:29 | <proofofme> | just like findIndex! so I can pass a vector into it for the predicates, yeah? |
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| 05:40:01 | <zq> | oh right, equational reasoning works in haskell |
| 05:40:05 | <koz_> | proofofme: I don't understand what the statement 'pass a vector into it for the predicates' means in this context. |
| 05:40:31 | <koz_> | You are correct in that findIndex takes a Vector as an argument. |
| 05:40:37 | <koz_> | It has nothing to do with the predicate aspect of this. |
| 05:41:06 | <proofofme> | ah ok |
| 05:42:02 | <koz_> | So, once again, what exactly do you want to do? |
| 05:42:05 | <koz_> | Be as specific as possible. |
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| 05:44:13 | <proofofme> | So if the needle is [a,b,c], and the array to search is [z,y,x,a], it should return 3 because the first instance of the needle found in the "haystack" is the 3rd element (counting 0) |
| 05:44:29 | <koz_> | proofofme: [z, y, x, a] is not an array. |
| 05:44:31 | <koz_> | It's a list. |
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| 05:45:00 | <proofofme> | ok, list, I mean |
| 05:45:05 | <koz_> | OK, so you have osmething like |
| 05:45:25 | <koz_> | whatProofofmeWants :: (Eq a) => [a] -> [a] -> Maybe Int |
| 05:45:26 | <koz_> | Right? |
| 05:45:58 | <proofofme> | yup! |
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| 05:46:14 | <koz_> | OK, so, this is best written by starting with the more restricted version of it, which is |
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| 05:46:28 | <koz_> | whatKozSuggestsYouWriteFirst :: (Eq a) => a -> [a] -> Maybe Int |
| 05:46:37 | <koz_> | One thing that may help you: |
| 05:46:41 | <koz_> | :t zip [0 ..] |
| 05:46:42 | <lambdabot> | (Num a, Enum a) => [b] -> [(a, b)] |
| 05:46:54 | <koz_> | Try and write that first. |
| 05:48:07 | <proofofme> | hmm |
| 05:48:25 | <koz_> | There is a function that'll do this, but I think it'd be very instructional for you to try and write this yourself first. |
| 05:49:12 | <proofofme> | ok give me a little bit of time to think about this one. how long do you think it should take me? |
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| 05:49:29 | <koz_> | I don't think setting a time limit on a learning task is productive. |
| 05:49:31 | <koz_> | Or useful. |
| 05:49:42 | <koz_> | Take whatever time your understanding, and your learning pace, needs. |
| 05:49:44 | <proofofme> | yeah ... what's the function btw? |
| 05:49:45 | <koz_> | If you need help, ask for it. |
| 05:49:56 | <koz_> | proofofme: Telling you this would defeat the purpose of this exercise. |
| 05:50:01 | <proofofme> | haha ok |
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| 05:51:42 | <dminuoso> | hekkaidekapus: Heh, turns out this is an unfortunate consequence https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/18836 |
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| 05:52:35 | <koz_> | dminuoso: Yay, bugs! |
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| 05:54:41 | <dminuoso> | Putting us back to "Overlapping instances are just bad" |
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| 06:53:11 | <kenran> | How can I create haddock documentation for a multi-package cabal-new project such that it's "all in one page"? Is that even possible? |
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| 06:55:09 | <kenran> | It might have to do with the --doc-index-file option, but I don't see how I'd use it yet. |
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| 06:56:31 | <kenran> | I'd probably need something like https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/latest/docs/html/libraries/ |
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| 07:18:27 | hackage | mmsyn2 0.2.0.0 - The library that can be used for multiple (Ord a) => a -> b transformations https://hackage.haskell.org/package/mmsyn2-0.2.0.0 (OleksandrZhabenko) |
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| 07:26:27 | hackage | bugsnag-hs 0.2.0.3 - A Bugsnag client for Haskell. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/bugsnag-hs-0.2.0.3 (JasperWoudenberg) |
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| 08:20:28 | hackage | cobot-io 0.1.3.7 - Biological data file formats and IO https://hackage.haskell.org/package/cobot-io-0.1.3.7 (ozzzzz) |
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| 08:44:42 | <merijn> | @remember RobRix I’m a theoretical computer scientist, in that my programs run best on theoretical computers |
| 08:44:42 | <lambdabot> | It is stored. |
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| 08:49:52 | <maerwald> | merijn: how convenient for you :p |
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| 08:55:19 | <dminuoso> | Does lens come with some Fold for a maps keys? |
| 08:55:46 | <dminuoso> | Or is `to keys . each` the way to go? |
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| 08:55:53 | <phadej> | ifolded |
| 08:56:12 | <dminuoso> | Ah, cheers phadej. |
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| 09:05:32 | <dminuoso> | phadej: Is there an equivalent of asIndex in optics? |
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| 09:08:07 | <phadej> | i don't remember |
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| 09:09:26 | <phadej> | looks like https://github.com/well-typed/optics/issues/321 no |
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| 09:53:57 | <fendor> | I want multiple modules per file :( |
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| 09:56:44 | <ulidtko> | hi all |
| 09:56:47 | <ulidtko> | cabal question :/ |
| 09:57:04 | <Zetagon> | hello there! |
| 09:57:15 | <ulidtko> | I'm setting executable-stripping: True -- but the built binaries are still with debuginfo |
| 09:57:22 | <ulidtko> | Cabal 2.4.0.1 |
| 09:57:34 | <ulidtko> | > foobar/dist-newstyle/build/x86_64-linux/ghc-8.6.5/foobar-0.1.0.0/x/foobar/build/foobar/foobar: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib/ld-musl-x86_64.so.1, with debug_info, not stripped |
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| 09:57:37 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:121: error: <hint>:1:121: error: parse error on input ‘,’ |
| 09:58:18 | <ulidtko> | I've checked that the strip program is there (it's a docker container) |
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| 10:00:13 | <ulidtko> | even with explicit cmdline flag, i.e. cabal new-build --executable-stripping -- the built executable is non-stripped |
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| 10:02:53 | <ulidtko> | here, quick demo https://asciinema.org/a/365563?speed=2 |
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| 10:09:27 | <ulidtko> | ahhhhh I'm dumb, sorry never mind |
| 10:09:48 | <ulidtko> | should've read the docs more carefully |
| 10:10:05 | <ulidtko> | - When installing binary executable programs, run the strip program on the binary. |
| 10:11:25 | <[exa]> | stripping is usually done by the system install, see `man 1 install` |
| 10:11:47 | <[exa]> | (for various fun reasons) |
| 10:11:53 | <ulidtko> | yeah, the doc says *when installing* which I missed |
| 10:12:33 | <ulidtko> | now I wonder how that will work with Stack's concept of "installing" |
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| 10:13:40 | <[exa]> | not sure, but brace for surprises :] |
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| 10:14:18 | <ulidtko> | hah, it's a boring day when computers don't surprise me :} |
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| 10:15:57 | hackage | hlint 3.2.1 - Source code suggestions https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hlint-3.2.1 (NeilMitchell) |
| 10:16:29 | <[exa]> | you know there are nice surprises with lots of added education value, and then the other kind... :D |
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| 11:12:33 | <tinga> | f :: Complex Int -> Complex Int ;; f x = x + (1 :+ 0) |
| 11:12:39 | <tinga> | Why does this give No instance for (RealFloat Int) arising from a use of ‘+’ ? |
| 11:13:42 | <phadej> | % :t (+) @(Complex _) |
| 11:13:42 | <yahb> | phadej: RealFloat _ => Complex _ -> Complex _ -> Complex _ |
| 11:13:54 | <phadej> | RealFloat a => Num (Complex a) |
| 11:14:08 | <phadej> | check the source, probably because of abs |
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| 11:22:51 | <tinga> | Class Num does not have any type restrictions (I'm still a newbie, maybe class declarations never can have type restrictions anyway?) https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.14.0.0/docs/src/GHC.Num.html#Num |
| 11:23:08 | <tinga> | Whereas the instance declarations all have the type restriction https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.14.0.0/docs/src/Data.Complex.html |
| 11:23:52 | <phadej> | yes, to use an instance, you have to satisfy its constraints |
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| 11:24:20 | <phadej> | "Complex a is an instance of class Num when a is an instance of RealFloat" |
| 11:24:43 | <tinga> | yep, but I don't see why |
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| 11:25:42 | <tinga> | "I just want to add a real 1 to a complex number", and it appears that I can only do that if I instantiate Complex with Float, or write my own real number type? |
| 11:25:50 | <phadej> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.14.0.0/docs/Data-Complex.html#t:Complex, whe nyou click Source next to Num (Complex a) |
| 11:25:53 | <phadej> | you are taken to https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.14.0.0/docs/src/Data.Complex.html#line-132 |
| 11:26:01 | <phadej> | and as I expected |
| 11:26:02 | <phadej> | abs z = magnitude z :+ 0 |
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| 11:26:29 | <Guest_39> | Hi, im having trouple installing haskell on my mac |
| 11:26:30 | <phadej> | and magnitude has type |
| 11:26:30 | <phadej> | magnitude :: (RealFloat a) => Complex a -> a |
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| 11:26:46 | <phadej> | tinga: yes, Num is suboptimal type-class |
| 11:26:56 | <Guest_39> | is someone able to help? |
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| 11:27:46 | <Guest_39> | im getting a digest error when installing ghcup |
| 11:28:07 | <maerwald> | Guest_39: which one |
| 11:28:17 | <phadej> | using Complex to play with gaussian integers would need you to write own "Complex" |
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| 11:28:23 | <tinga> | OK, thanks phadej |
| 11:28:33 | <Guest_39> | [ Info ] verifying digest of: ghc-8.8.4-x86_64-apple-darwin.tar.xz[ Error ] DigestError "24a6bdab3fc845b2605b951d8160d8d02d34dbb81600f3d0aabbbb8d8e8fd4fd" "e80a789e9d8cfb41dd87f3284b75432427c4461c1731d220d04ead8733ccdb5e" |
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| 11:28:55 | <phadej> | maerwald, bgamari ^ do you now what happened? |
| 11:30:23 | <maerwald> | e80a789e9d8cfb41dd87f3284b75432427c4461c1731d220d04ead8733ccdb5e is the hash from https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/8.8.4/SHA256SUMS |
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| 11:31:15 | <maerwald> | so the thing you downloaded is indeed not valid |
| 11:32:19 | <Guest_39> | is also says: |
| 11:32:27 | hackage | th-lego 0.1.0.4 - Template Haskell construction utilities https://hackage.haskell.org/package/th-lego-0.1.0.4 (NikitaVolkov) |
| 11:32:33 | <Guest_39> | [ Error ] Also check the logs in "/Users/Guest_39/.ghcup/logs" |
| 11:33:08 | <phadej> | I downloaded the tarball and i got the same e80... hash so it's not changed on the server :) |
| 11:33:40 | <phadej> | and what the logs say? :) |
| 11:34:45 | <Guest_39> | im not sure how to check the logs -_- |
| 11:34:47 | <maerwald> | Guest_39: you can try to use wget instead: ~/.ghcup/bin/ghcup --downloader wget install ghc 8.8.4 |
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| 11:38:57 | hackage | aeson-commit 1.0 - Parse Aeson data with commitment https://hackage.haskell.org/package/aeson-commit-1.0 (jonascarpay) |
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| 12:16:27 | hackage | aeson-commit 1.1 - Parse Aeson data with commitment https://hackage.haskell.org/package/aeson-commit-1.1 (jonascarpay) |
| 12:19:27 | hackage | ptr-poker 0.1 - Pointer poking action construction and composition toolkit https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ptr-poker-0.1 (NikitaVolkov) |
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| 12:21:40 | <dminuoso> | What am I to make of this diagnostic? https://gist.github.com/dminuoso/a1767ce83e8ff645dfdae7d29aed51e4 |
| 12:22:03 | <dminuoso> | That seems like a buggy GHC heuristic. |
| 12:22:41 | <dminuoso> | % data Foo = Foo1 Foo1 |
| 12:22:41 | <yahb> | dminuoso: ; <interactive>:14:17: error:; * Data constructor `Foo1' cannot be used here (it is defined and used in the same recursive group); * In the type `Foo1'; In the definition of data constructor `Foo1'; In the data declaration for `Foo' |
| 12:23:13 | <dminuoso> | This should emit: Not in scope: type constructor or class `Foo1'; Perhaps you meant `Foo' (line 15) |
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| 12:23:27 | <dminuoso> | Or is there some weird Haskell semantics that justify the above diagnostic? |
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| 12:26:27 | <Ariakenom> | tinga, maybe im misunderstanding but. "I just want to add a real 1 to a complex number" your code does that if u change the type to "f :: RealFloat a => Complex a -> Complex a" |
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| 12:28:21 | <merijn> | dminuoso: heh, which GHC is that? |
| 12:28:35 | <merijn> | dminuoso: eh, wait |
| 12:28:47 | <merijn> | dminuoso: Is there an actual V_3GPP type anywhere? |
| 12:28:58 | <dminuoso> | merijn: No, I forgot to import it. |
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| 12:29:10 | <Ariakenom> | but that doesnt work if u want Int in particular |
| 12:29:15 | <merijn> | Do you have DataKinds enabled? |
| 12:29:38 | <dminuoso> | % :set -XNoDataKinds |
| 12:29:38 | <yahb> | dminuoso: |
| 12:29:41 | <dminuoso> | % data Foo = Foo1 Foo1 |
| 12:29:41 | <yahb> | dminuoso: ; <interactive>:17:17: error:; Not in scope: type constructor or class `Foo1'; A data constructor of that name is in scope; did you mean DataKinds?; Perhaps you meant `Foo' (line 17) |
| 12:29:47 | <dminuoso> | merijn: That's it! Thanks! |
| 12:29:48 | <merijn> | oom |
| 12:29:51 | <merijn> | *boom |
| 12:29:53 | <dminuoso> | Good catch. :) |
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| 12:30:08 | <merijn> | I'm a genius at debugging intuition ;) |
| 12:30:15 | <dminuoso> | heh |
| 12:30:22 | <dminuoso> | I mean it was obvious the moment you mentioned it |
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| 12:31:49 | <dminuoso> | I have a pretty cool usecase of data kinds now. :) |
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| 12:35:23 | <merijn> | Inscrutable errors? :p |
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| 12:39:40 | <dminuoso> | merijn: Nah. So I have lots of nullary sum types. To avoid name clashing, they are prefixed by the attribute name |
| 12:39:57 | <dminuoso> | So I have `ASA_WebVPN_SSL_VPN_Client_Keep_Installation_Enabled` `ASA_WebVPN_Port_Forwarding_Exchange_Proxy_Enable_Enabled` etc |
| 12:40:07 | <dminuoso> | It's much easier to just say #Enabled instead. :) |
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| 12:41:02 | <dminuoso> | And use generated IsLabel instances |
| 12:41:24 | <AWizzArd> | In Snap I can encode variable parts of a route via colon: `:id`. Are query parameters also encoded in the route? Or are they exclusively captured via rqQueryParams? |
| 12:41:27 | <dminuoso> | Or `fromLabel @"Foo-Bar"` if you dont want to use OverloadedLabels, or can it |
| 12:41:31 | <dminuoso> | *or cant |
| 12:42:01 | <dminuoso> | So that gives rise to some cool combinators together with the optics library |
| 12:42:03 | <dminuoso> | like |
| 12:42:30 | <dminuoso> | whenM (Acct_Authentic ./= #RADIUS) (...) |
| 12:43:10 | <dminuoso> | Err, that should start with an understore. :) |
| 12:43:23 | <merijn> | dminuoso: I'm a luddite who is still not using optics :p |
| 12:44:03 | <phadej> | Kowainik :) |
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| 12:45:08 | <phadej> | merijn: are you using lens? |
| 12:45:21 | <merijn> | phadej: I meant no optics at all |
| 12:45:39 | <merijn> | regardless of package |
| 12:45:48 | <phadej> | then it's fine. |
| 12:46:07 | <merijn> | I mean, I think I have 5 lines of microlens to interact with persistent, but that's it :p |
| 12:46:43 | <phadej> | interacting with swagger2 using OverloadedLabels and optics is very nice |
| 12:47:01 | <phadej> | specifically after I fixed the VIM highlighting for overloadedlabels :) |
| 12:47:01 | <dminuoso> | Indeed, we use that as well. :) |
| 12:47:34 | <merijn> | phadej: Out of curiosity, are you secretly a bunch of androids who don't need sleep? |
| 12:47:37 | <dminuoso> | But I didn't start optics/lens them until we started working on this SDN compiler. That project had very deeply nested data, and there were very repeating pattern themes. |
| 12:48:00 | <dminuoso> | Though, I must admit, ever since I started, optics has appeared popping up in some projects here |
| 12:48:05 | <phadej> | merijn: I in fact sleep 9+ hours a day |
| 12:48:22 | <merijn> | phadej: At this rate you're outputting more code than edwardk >.> |
| 12:48:48 | <dminuoso> | merijn: edwardk's capacitity to put out code is limited by the influx of articles on ncatlab. |
| 12:49:06 | <merijn> | :p |
| 12:49:52 | <merijn> | my capacity is limited by "cat petting" having priority over coding >.> |
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| 12:50:02 | <dminuoso> | since when do you have a cat? |
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| 12:50:17 | <merijn> | mid-2016? |
| 12:50:41 | <merijn> | Ironically, most of my Haskell is after mid-2016 |
| 12:51:01 | <merijn> | OTOH, before this year I spent most of my day at work, where there's no cat... :p |
| 12:51:11 | <phadej> | is your cat named Haskell |
| 12:51:34 | <phadej> | or Hask |
| 12:52:16 | <merijn> | Usually she just gets called panther princess :p |
| 12:53:27 | <absence> | what's the right way to deal with duplicate record fields across modules? https://repl.it/repls/GruesomeTrustyLocation |
| 12:54:03 | <merijn> | 1) don't have those, 2) only import them qualified, 3) some complicated mess of extensions and voodoo |
| 12:54:37 | <merijn> | oh, 4) don't have record field accessors at all (not implemented yet, afaik) |
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| 12:55:22 | <absence> | merijn: the thing is that if i put everything in the same module, it just works, so i thought maybe i was missing something "obvious" |
| 12:55:33 | <phadej> | enable DuplicateRecordFields in a module you use them too? |
| 12:55:51 | <absence> | phadej: i tried that, but it doesn't make a difference unfortunately |
| 12:56:20 | <merijn> | having accesors was a mistake, -XNoFieldSelectors + -XNamedFieldPuns is the way forward! |
| 12:56:40 | <merijn> | (you know, once NoFieldSelectors finally ships...) |
| 12:56:56 | <phadej> | also naming types.hs Types.hs will help GHC find it |
| 12:57:04 | <hpc> | -XBasicallyJustRustADTs |
| 12:57:44 | <merijn> | hpc: I dunno how those work? how do they differ from ADTs in haskell? |
| 13:00:01 | <hpc> | mechanically they're practically the same as strict haskell would be, but that combination of extensions makes pattern matching syntax on them very similar as well |
| 13:00:29 | <tinga> | Ariakenom, yes, I was imprecise, I just meant a non-complex number (add 1 to the real part) and I wanted to write a function that would work for any `a` in `Complex a` |
| 13:01:33 | <tinga> | Why is it that with type classes the type restriction holds for the whole class instead of just the methods where the restriction is relevant? |
| 13:01:51 | <merijn> | tinga: What do you mean? |
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| 13:02:42 | <tinga> | Num covers (+), (-), abs, etc., but the RealFloat restriction only exists because of `abs`. |
| 13:02:43 | <phadej> | because if you would want different restrictons, you'd rather have separate classes :) |
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| 13:03:15 | <phadej> | better question is "wnhy Num has abs", which has a very boring question: Because in '90s that sounded like a good idea |
| 13:03:22 | <tinga> | merijn, So if I wanted to only ever use + and - from Num, the RealFloat restriction doesn't matter for me. |
| 13:03:36 | <phadej> | sorry, boring answer |
| 13:03:37 | <merijn> | Which RealFloat restriction? |
| 13:03:48 | <phadej> | merijn: RealFloat a => Num (Complex a) |
| 13:04:09 | <merijn> | ah |
| 13:04:12 | <phadej> | see discussion ~100 messages prior |
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| 13:04:46 | <merijn> | tinga: Simple answer: because arbitrarily fine-grained splitting requires tons of manual work with very little to no pay off |
| 13:04:56 | <tinga> | My question is towards: would type reasoning become impossible or computationally more complex if type classes would be "splittable" according to use, |
| 13:04:56 | <merijn> | tinga: In short, nobody cares enough |
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| 13:05:23 | <tinga> | I mean, automatic splitting. |
| 13:05:40 | <tinga> | Maybe I'm being stupid, not sure. |
| 13:05:44 | <merijn> | tinga: Well, you'd first have to invent a semantics for what "splittable" even means, then you'd have to implement it, then you'd have to update all existing code |
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| 13:05:53 | <merijn> | tinga: Many people hate the Num hierarchy for many reasons |
| 13:05:59 | <merijn> | A lot of them even valid reasons |
| 13:06:19 | <tinga> | Since it would only allow more code to be valid, not restrict existing code, no code would have to be changed. |
| 13:06:30 | <phadej> | bold clam |
| 13:06:32 | <phadej> | claim |
| 13:06:34 | <merijn> | tinga: But every proposed alternative has either required: 1) tons of extensions, 2) made code dramatically harder to understand, 3) not much practical use |
| 13:06:55 | <tinga> | :) Ok, that sounds like a reasonable answer. |
| 13:07:43 | <merijn> | tinga: Like, sure, Num is broken in all sorts of mathematical ways, but most of the proposed fixes are "more correct", but also 10 times more annoying to use to write, you know, actual code :) |
| 13:08:14 | <tinga> | Is there a somewhat widely accepted alternative for Num ? |
| 13:08:22 | <merijn> | No |
| 13:08:34 | <merijn> | There's about 20 *not* widely accepted alternatives, though! |
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| 13:09:00 | <merijn> | All they cost you is "all interoperability with the rest of Hackage" ;) |
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| 13:13:15 | <kuribas> | merijn: there is the purescript type class hierarchy |
| 13:13:21 | <phadej> | I don't think anyone tried hard enough to satisfy "algebraists" and "float-pointers" at the same time |
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| 13:13:37 | <phadej> | kuribas: purescript hierarchy lies about floats :) |
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| 13:14:21 | <kuribas> | https://pursuit.purescript.org/packages/purescript-numerics/0.1.2/docs/Data.Num |
| 13:15:40 | <phadej> | as concrete example, IMO having CommutativeRing like no-members but extra laws class is antipattern in Haskell (and fwiw in PS as well) |
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| 13:16:06 | <phadej> | if you want to have such, you would need to have a member which has extra laws attached to it |
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| 13:16:12 | <phadej> | e.g. + is commutative and .+ isn't |
| 13:16:36 | <phadej> | ... and we can debate whether that or single + is better to the end of the universe :) |
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| 13:20:26 | <dminuoso> | kuribas: You asked why no newtype around Int, because not all integers are permissable. |
| 13:20:47 | <dminuoso> | But to be perfectly blunt, the vendor who was responsible for this is an idiot, as integer would have been the right thing here. |
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| 13:22:21 | <kuribas> | dminuoso: newtype with smart constructor? |
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| 13:28:42 | <Ariakenom> | > [0.5, 1.5 .. 2] -- we hating on numbers? |
| 13:28:46 | <lambdabot> | [0.5,1.5,2.5] |
| 13:28:59 | <merijn> | the Enum instance for Float and Double can go die in a fire |
| 13:29:01 | <merijn> | Stupid ass idea |
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| 14:01:15 | <zwarag> | I'm looking for a `[Int] -> String` which would: `[1,2,3] -> '[1,2,3]'`. According to the following Link `intsToDigits` should do that but I might confuse something :https://hackage.haskell.org/package/percent-format-0.0.1/docs/Text-PercentFormat-Utils.html#v:intsToDigits |
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| 14:02:00 | <Taneb> | > show [1, 2, 3] |
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| 14:02:03 | <[exa]> | zwarag: why not just combine show and reverse? |
| 14:02:03 | <lambdabot> | "[1,2,3]" |
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| 14:03:21 | <[exa]> | zwarag: or perhaps `intercalate`, if you want to do it extra manually |
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| 14:04:38 | <zwarag> | My function actually is: `testFactorize x l = it (printf "factors of %d should be %s", x l ) $ l == factorize x` where x is 10 and l is [1,2,5,10] printf is from `import Text.Printf (printf)` |
| 14:05:25 | <merijn> | zwarag: Presumably that should be "show l"? |
| 14:06:01 | <dminuoso> | kuribas: 2000 smart constructors? What's the benefit here? And how are you gonna pattern match against smart constructors? |
| 14:06:18 | <kuribas> | dminuoso: a single one of course :) |
| 14:06:27 | <dminuoso> | well at any case |
| 14:06:42 | <dminuoso> | The ADT is gonna stay! :P |
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| 14:08:29 | <zwarag> | mhmm, I cannot figure out how to do `show l` right. I get this syntax error: https://imgur.com/a/fqpkkeS |
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| 14:09:11 | <[exa]> | can you please use pastebin for text? |
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| 14:10:28 | <zwarag> | sure. https://pastebin.com/gBzTdsH1 |
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| 14:11:05 | <dminuoso> | zwarag: You probably want to invoke that as `it (printf "..." x (show l)) $ ... |
| 14:11:26 | <zwarag> | here is also Factorize.hs if it is needed: https://pastebin.com/StUee5Da |
| 14:12:27 | hackage | flashblast 0.0.1.0 - Generate lanuage learning flashcards from video. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/flashblast-0.0.1.0 (locallycompact) |
| 14:12:36 | <zwarag> | dminuoso: I did try that, but I still get an error: https://imgur.com/a/pkUXthG |
| 14:12:50 | <dminuoso> | Can you please not use imgur to share textual information? |
| 14:13:00 | <dminuoso> | Also, that looks unchanged. |
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| 14:13:18 | <dminuoso> | zwarag: essentially, the comma is out of place. |
| 14:13:30 | <dminuoso> | It doesnt do what you think it does. |
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| 14:14:13 | <zwarag> | ahh now I see. Thank you dminuoso. Is it better/preferred to post errors in pastebin too? |
| 14:14:54 | <dminuoso> | Yes. |
| 14:15:15 | <dminuoso> | You can use tools such as https://paste.tomsmeding.com/ that allow you to submit multiple files. |
| 14:15:36 | <dminuoso> | that way you can split code and GHC output, or other data, into separate blocks that can be syntax highlighted appropriately |
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| 14:17:06 | <AWizzArd> | io-streams. When I have an `InputStream ByteString` and want to read JSON objects out of it, how should I do it? Will I have to read byte-wise from this stream and check when a closing `}` is found? |
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| 14:31:28 | hackage | haskellish 0.2.3.1 - For parsing Haskell-ish languages https://hackage.haskell.org/package/haskellish-0.2.3.1 (dktr0) |
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| 15:04:31 | <dminuoso> | lens/optics question: I have some [(10,Just "abc"), (20, Just "cde"), (30, Nothing)] -- is there a way to take some `each . _Just . each` and combine it with the Int in the tuple as its "Ix"? |
| 15:05:17 | <phadej> | what you mean by combine |
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| 15:05:51 | <dminuoso> | So I want to fold over each character, while having access to the number. |
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| 15:05:53 | <dminuoso> | Sort of like |
| 15:06:05 | <dminuoso> | Fold [(Int, Maybe String)] (Int, Char) |
| 15:06:07 | <phadej> | :t <. |
| 15:06:09 | <lambdabot> | error: parse error on input ‘<.’ |
| 15:06:13 | <phadej> | :t (<.) |
| 15:06:16 | <lambdabot> | Indexable i p => (Indexed i s t -> r) -> ((a -> b) -> s -> t) -> p a b -> r |
| 15:06:22 | <phadej> | lookup it on lens docs |
| 15:06:43 | <dminuoso> | phadej: That's spot on! Thanks. :) |
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| 15:12:30 | <ixlun> | Ugh, got disconnected... did my previous question get through? |
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| 15:14:05 | <monochrom> | I think no. |
| 15:14:07 | <tomsmeding> | ixlun: https://ircbrowse.tomsmeding.com/browse/haskell?events_page=656 |
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| 15:15:51 | <ixlun> | Ah, I shall ask again in that case: I was just wondering if anyone knew if there was a way to kill a haskell thread off that was in the middle of a long pure computation? |
| 15:16:03 | <merijn> | ixlun: Did you create the thread? |
| 15:16:09 | <ixlun> | Yes |
| 15:16:14 | <ixlun> | I've tried killThread |
| 15:16:23 | <merijn> | That doesn't work? |
| 15:16:43 | <ixlun> | It does but after a significant delay |
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| 15:17:13 | <ixlun> | (although what is strange is that the whole program terminates with SIGKILL) |
| 15:17:18 | <merijn> | I dunno when async exceptions are checked/handled. Naively I'd guess like pre-emption at GC time |
| 15:17:43 | <ixlun> | I was wondering if they could only |
| 15:17:59 | <ixlun> | only be handled in between IO actions |
| 15:18:12 | <merijn> | So if you have a tight pure loop that doesn't allocate much, that could take some time |
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| 15:18:21 | <ixlun> | My only other thought was to pepper my pure computation with `yield' but I don't really like that solution |
| 15:18:31 | <monochrom> | No other way. Short story: Think of cooperative multitasking but automatic insertion of yield points at heap allocation points. |
| 15:18:36 | <merijn> | ixlun: Oh, wait |
| 15:18:42 | <merijn> | ixlun: Is this the single-threaded runtime? |
| 15:18:45 | <ixlun> | Yes |
| 15:18:52 | <merijn> | Try the multithreaded one |
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| 15:19:06 | <Ariakenom> | async exceptions are checked when allocating |
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| 15:19:15 | <ixlun> | How do I do that, use forkOS rather than forkIO? |
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| 15:19:17 | <merijn> | Sounds like the 1 thread is taking a long time to yield, so the killThread just doesn't get thrown until way later :p |
| 15:19:24 | <merijn> | ixlun: No, it's a compiletime flag |
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| 15:19:30 | <monochrom> | No, use "ghc ... -threaded ..." |
| 15:19:32 | <merijn> | ixlun: Use "ghc -threaded" |
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| 15:19:45 | <merijn> | (and run with "+RTS -N2") |
| 15:19:51 | <monochrom> | forkOS is an orthogonal concern. |
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| 15:20:19 | <merijn> | ixlun: The default runtime only runs one OS thread of Haskell code, regardless of how many forkIO threads you have |
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| 15:20:40 | <merijn> | ixlun: -threaded lets you use multiple OS threads in parallel to run forkIO threads simultaneously |
| 15:20:59 | <merijn> | (if you use "+RTS -N2" to actually run it with 2 OS threads, that is) |
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| 15:21:00 | <Ariakenom> | with -fno-omit-yields the checks are more often. every function call perhaps |
| 15:21:03 | <Ariakenom> | https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/using-optimisation.html#ghc-flag--fomit-yields |
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| 15:24:20 | <hyperisco> | I need to take template files, instantiate variables, and evaluate… any template language with conditionals will do. Suggestions? |
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| 15:25:15 | <ixlun> | Hmm, both of those solutions didn't seem to work unfortunetly :-( |
| 15:25:51 | <hyperisco> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/doctemplates looks promising |
| 15:26:01 | <tomsmeding> | hyperisco: mustache has is-not-null conditionals |
| 15:26:30 | <hyperisco> | am looking for equality at least on integers |
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| 15:26:51 | <hyperisco> | well I guess I can do is-not-null and just set variables carefully :P |
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| 15:27:57 | <ixlun> | Here is the code in question: https://pastebin.com/wfnsY3pC |
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| 15:29:24 | <ixlun> | `search' is the long operation |
| 15:30:06 | <ixlun> | thing is. it's not a particularly tight loop either... it's expanding a game tree to depth n... there will be plenty of allocs happening |
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| 15:48:27 | hackage | byteslice 0.2.4.0 - Slicing managed and unmanaged memory https://hackage.haskell.org/package/byteslice-0.2.4.0 (andrewthad) |
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| 15:57:17 | <monochrom> | Interesting, https://github.com/folidota/GSoC2020 (they only did multiple polynomial quadratic sieve) |
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| 16:12:28 | hackage | launchdarkly-server-sdk 2.0.2 - Server-side SDK for integrating with LaunchDarkly https://hackage.haskell.org/package/launchdarkly-server-sdk-2.0.2 (launchdarkly) |
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| 16:13:28 | hackage | ptr-poker 0.1.1 - Pointer poking action construction and composition toolkit https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ptr-poker-0.1.1 (NikitaVolkov) |
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| 16:36:33 | <monochrom> | \∩/ tomsmeding's pastebin is in Haskell Weekly News's Show & Tell |
| 16:36:50 | <tomsmeding> | \o/ |
| 16:36:50 | <monochrom> | and the new ircbrowse too |
| 16:40:51 | <Uniaika> | \o/ |
| 16:41:02 | <Uniaika> | Taylor is amongst us! |
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| 16:45:37 | <AWizzArd> | I have a ByteString with possibly incorrect JSON, but I want to read as much out of it as possible. ["{'a':1}", ",{'b':1}", ",{'c':1}", ",{'d' this should give me a, b and c, and let me know at which position no correct parsing was possible anymore. Any suggestion? |
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| 16:46:37 | <phadej> | if using unreleased libraries is fine, then https://github.com/phadej/saison can give you the prefix |
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| 16:47:04 | <phadej> | (you'll get a structured stream of tokens with error lingering at the end) |
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| 16:47:42 | <phadej> | but IIRC I don't count bytes, so you don't get absolute position of error |
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| 16:48:50 | <AWizzArd> | phadej: I might be able to re-construct this. |
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| 16:49:38 | <AWizzArd> | phadej: the highlevel goal here is to have a route in Snap that may receive some gigabytes of json objects {} inside a list. I want to insert them into my DB without needing 256 GB of RAM. |
| 16:49:54 | <phadej> | that's the use case for saison, yes. |
| 16:49:58 | <phadej> | it's a streaming parser |
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| 16:50:23 | <AWizzArd> | phadej: so currently I read chunks from the InputStream and with those resulting (smallish) ByteStrings I wanna see what I’ve got so far. |
| 16:50:26 | <phadej> | but I hadn't time (or need) to polish it beyond basic PoC |
| 16:50:32 | <AWizzArd> | phadej: good, so I can have a look. |
| 16:50:47 | <phadej> | hmm, and in fact, I don't have "feed me more input" system either |
| 16:50:53 | <phadej> | so there's a lot to do :) |
| 16:51:20 | <phadej> | I have an employer though :) |
| 16:51:30 | <phadej> | (who likes when people need unwritten Haskell code!) |
| 16:51:39 | <phadej> | yet* |
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| 16:52:13 | <AWizzArd> | (: |
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| 16:58:27 | hackage | clckwrks 0.26.2.2 - A secure, reliable content management system (CMS) and blogging platform https://hackage.haskell.org/package/clckwrks-0.26.2.2 (JeremyShaw) |
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| 17:38:04 | <yushyin> | https://twitter.com/_julesh_/status/1316756695440293888 :) |
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| 17:38:32 | <monochrom> | haha |
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| 17:39:34 | <monochrom> | titForTatState |
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| 17:45:31 | <int-e> | wild arrows |
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| 18:16:59 | <larou> | ok, i think the thing with cycles can be possible |
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| 18:17:19 | <larou> | i think basically the problem is encoding at type level "where a datatype originates" |
| 18:17:37 | <larou> | so that you can constrain it to be "the one above" in a recursive datatype |
| 18:17:45 | <larou> | to establish a backwards link |
| 18:17:57 | <larou> | i think this can be done with "a let binding class" |
| 18:18:14 | <larou> | that, by class instance uniqueness, is guarantied to be only one |
| 18:18:42 | <larou> | then you impose the "where it originates" as a constraint, which is parametric over this position in code |
| 18:18:52 | <larou> | right? |
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| 18:20:15 | <johnw> | how do you specify "position in the code"? |
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| 18:26:17 | <jsynacek> | Hi! I'm having a problem understanding State and >>= together. |
| 18:26:22 | <jsynacek> | I have this: foo :: State Int [Int] |
| 18:26:27 | <jsynacek> | foo = get >>= \s -> pure [s+10] >>= \s' -> pure $ s' ++ [7,8,9] |
| 18:26:54 | <jsynacek> | Can anyone please explain to me how the s' suddenly changes from Int to [Int]? I can't figure it out. |
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| 18:27:13 | <jsynacek> | I mean it's still supposed to be of the same type as the state, right? |
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| 18:28:13 | <jsynacek> | So I would suppose that s and s' should both be Int. But s is Int and s' is [Int]. |
| 18:28:14 | <verement> | :t \s -> pure [s+10] |
| 18:28:15 | <lambdabot> | (Applicative f, Num a) => a -> f [a] |
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| 18:29:23 | <monochrom> | I don't understand the "change" mental model. There is no change. |
| 18:29:59 | <monochrom> | "pure x >>= \y -> ..." necessarily satisfies y=x therefore y has the same type as x. |
| 18:30:18 | <larou> | johnw: it would be some arbitrary label, probably a Symbol, to accompany the instance - that way allowing many such instances, that otherwise would clash |
| 18:30:20 | <monochrom> | Oh, x is a list this time? Then it is a list this time. |
| 18:30:20 | <dolio> | You named the variables to confuse yourself. :) |
| 18:31:05 | <johnw> | larou: I suppose if you used a Nat and yourself ensured monotonicity, you could impose a type-level ordering constraint |
| 18:31:11 | <larou> | then you would have the downstream reference constrained to reference the corresponding label |
| 18:31:27 | <larou> | johnw: hmm, good idea |
| 18:31:57 | <larou> | maybe that aswell as a label |
| 18:32:22 | <larou> | otherwise you would only be able to make one value of the datatype |
| 18:32:43 | <larou> | or, have to use arbitrarily large first Nat for all the subsequent values |
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| 18:33:09 | <geekosaur> | jsynacek, note that the only thing that does anything with the state is the `get`; you then produce a list, and then consume a list, and produce another list, carrying the state along without touching it |
| 18:33:23 | <larou> | or maybe not a Nat |
| 18:33:28 | <larou> | but like f () |
| 18:33:33 | <larou> | for the linked container f |
| 18:33:50 | <larou> | like, if it were a doubly linked list, a Nat would be ok - but not if it were a tree |
| 18:34:03 | <larou> | erm, a pointer on (f ()) |
| 18:34:22 | <jsynacek> | geekosaur: Yes, that's it. I totally confused myself. |
| 18:34:28 | <jsynacek> | geekosaur++ |
| 18:34:40 | <larou> | so the "name" label, has to be the same for every constructor used sequentially to construct the container |
| 18:34:55 | <larou> | they are all just different bits of the "same container" |
| 18:35:20 | <larou> | and the pointer to the position of the part being referenced would be like the Nat |
| 18:35:32 | <larou> | not sure how your monotonicity constraint works then.. |
| 18:36:05 | <larou> | i think the doubly linked list example has "the immediately preceding value" expressed via the constraint |
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| 18:36:21 | <larou> | not anything less than the current index |
| 18:36:39 | <larou> | or did you mean monotinic position, like successive "forwards" positions of a zipper? |
| 18:37:04 | <larou> | indexing at type level *each* of the positions, not just the cyclic references |
| 18:37:06 | <hyperisco> | so with the Haskell VSCode extension... 1) any way to insert a suitable import given an identifier? 2) any way to have ctrl+shift+b build the project? |
| 18:37:45 | <hyperisco> | so far the error underlining hasn't exploded so that is progress |
| 18:37:58 | <larou> | i guess then you would have something like a tree zipper, and the constraint would be that you would only be able to navigate down and forwards, not upwards and backwards... thats kind of like the ordering of a Nat... |
| 18:39:01 | <hyperisco> | I hate knowing a name like getArgs but not knowing what module it is in |
| 18:39:07 | <hyperisco> | if the IDE could help me with that it would be a godsend |
| 18:41:05 | <monochrom> | Tranditionally, people install hoogle locally for that. They probably also get their IDEs to call hoogle. |
| 18:41:27 | <jsynacek> | hyperisco: vscode has a feature called Tasks. You can use it to run 'cabal build' on ctrl+shift+b. |
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| 18:41:36 | <monochrom> | Me, I just crack open a web browser tab and use the haddock index. |
| 18:42:14 | <jsynacek> | hyperisco: Check out https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/editor/tasks#vscode |
| 18:42:37 | <hyperisco> | monochrom, when you have to import hundreds of things a day that adds up hugely |
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| 18:43:21 | <hyperisco> | jsynacek, okay thanks |
| 18:43:40 | <hyperisco> | how about tabs… I have VSCode set to width 2 but for whatever reason in .hs files it is back to 4 |
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| 18:47:04 | <hyperisco> | just need a file-extension-specific override... okay |
| 18:47:28 | hackage | implicit-hie 0.1.2.0 - Auto generate hie-bios cradles & hie.yaml https://hackage.haskell.org/package/implicit-hie-0.1.2.0 (Avi_Dessauer) |
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| 18:51:09 | <hyperisco> | would be nice if you could get the type of a term |
| 18:51:24 | <hyperisco> | seems you can only get types for imported names |
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| 18:51:55 | <hyperisco> | oh nvm it is working now... now I just wish there was a hotkey instead of hovering |
| 18:52:02 | <hyperisco> | because going to the mouse is no good |
| 18:53:27 | <hyperisco> | apparently is a vscode thing if you do ctrl+k+i ... hope this helps someone |
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| 18:54:52 | <hyperisco> | oh damnnnnnn it will auto import names |
| 18:56:14 | <hyperisco> | ctrl+. while cursored on the name... gives several import options |
| 18:56:41 | <hyperisco> | Haskell officially has good IDE support in my eyes… well done. where do I insert my money? |
| 18:57:09 | <larou> | i guess the problem would then be that every version of the container would still have this label |
| 18:57:29 | <larou> | maybe a synonym with a quantification would allow it to be polymorphic in this label |
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| 18:58:11 | <larou> | well, this is why it was called a "Let" class anyway, so that it binds the "name of the value" as a type parameter |
| 18:58:36 | <larou> | then you can at least constrain the cyclic references to be to the same container |
| 18:58:45 | <larou> | but im not sure what would happen when modifying it |
| 18:59:01 | <larou> | like, i guess you would have to give it a new type label and Let instance |
| 18:59:07 | <larou> | this seems impossible |
| 18:59:29 | <larou> | its these kind of considerations that makes it seem like it would be better as a language feature than as a library |
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| 19:00:00 | <larou> | you would have all the knot tying stuff being done under the hood then too |
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| 19:08:57 | hackage | git-brunch 1.4.2.0 - git checkout command-line tool https://hackage.haskell.org/package/git-brunch-1.4.2.0 (andys8) |
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| 19:10:26 | <larou> | anyway, having all the tails as different Let instances seems basically impossible to write! |
| 19:10:46 | <larou> | i guess there is some reflection/local instances magic that could take care of that |
| 19:11:06 | <larou> | but i dont think you can use implicit params in the same way as actual classes |
| 19:11:17 | <larou> | seems like a total madness tbh |
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| 19:56:28 | <monochrom> | I solved the keyboard-mouse dilemma by Logitech K400 Plus: keyboard - numpad + touchpad |
| 19:57:29 | <monochrom> | Actually to a large extent, even a real mouse is much closer to the keyboard if you just get rid of the numpad. |
| 19:58:32 | <monochrom> | I also have a friend who put the mouse on the left and trained himself to use his left hand for the mouse. Because again it is then close to the keyboard. |
| 19:58:43 | <dminuoso> | monochrom: I know some people like to use it for their apple tv |
| 19:59:02 | <larou> | monochrom: was he in a really cramped cubicle or something? |
| 19:59:08 | <monochrom> | Numpad standing in the way is the #1 cause of programmer hand injuries. |
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| 19:59:21 | <monochrom> | No. |
| 19:59:28 | hackage | mattermost-api 50200.9.0 - Client API for Mattermost chat system https://hackage.haskell.org/package/mattermost-api-50200.9.0 (JonathanDaugherty) |
| 20:00:27 | hackage | mattermost-api-qc 50200.9.0 - QuickCheck instances for the Mattermost client API library https://hackage.haskell.org/package/mattermost-api-qc-50200.9.0 (JonathanDaugherty) |
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| 20:00:57 | <larou> | anyone want to try to see if this idea of Let bound reification for cycles? |
| 20:01:06 | <monochrom> | No. |
| 20:01:20 | <larou> | literally, nobody |
| 20:01:28 | hackage | matterhorn 50200.11.0 - Terminal client for the Mattermost chat system https://hackage.haskell.org/package/matterhorn-50200.11.0 (JonathanDaugherty) |
| 20:01:28 | hackage | citeproc 0.1.0.2 - Generates citations and bibliography from CSL styles. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/citeproc-0.1.0.2 (JohnMacFarlane) |
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| 20:02:27 | <larou> | *and all the programmers did become woefull, and the sky did fall* |
| 20:02:53 | <monochrom> | Yeah dminuoso, K400 really had smart TV browsing in mind, the design and the marketting shows. |
| 20:03:56 | <larou> | voice activated? |
| 20:04:31 | <monochrom> | I decided that I am not picky with key tactile or how big the backspace is etc, so I took it for PC and laptop-when-at-home. And I also caught it at a discounted price. This was like 10-15 years ago. |
| 20:04:41 | <larou> | "hey TV - motivate finance" |
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| 20:05:51 | <larou> | monochrom: this is the problem... at least when people are commuting, they have such a distressing morning that they are happy to be in their offices |
| 20:05:58 | <monochrom> | Anyway, obHaskell, I have been reading "practical type inference for arbitrary-rank types" recently. It's pretty neat. (in preparation for reading "a quick look at impredicativity".) |
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| 20:06:55 | <geekosaur> | "motivate finance"? that sounds more like an hledger-motivate package than a keyboard feature to me |
| 20:07:01 | <larou> | do any other languages even have arbitrary rank types? |
| 20:07:10 | <monochrom> | Also, today's HWN lists https://generics.jasperwoudenberg.com/ which helps learning GHC.Generics. |
| 20:08:00 | <monochrom> | Dynamically typed languages have dependent rank-n types. Change my mind. |
| 20:08:20 | <larou> | dynamically or dependently? |
| 20:08:31 | <monochrom> | yes. |
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| 20:09:43 | <monochrom> | Clearly, C has rank-n types too, just not very polymorphic; and without local functions, not a lot of use cases. |
| 20:09:53 | <larou> | anyway, i think if i managed to show the idea working it would be easier to convince the GHC people to make a language extension |
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| 20:10:11 | <larou> | or another language that compiles to haskell or something |
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| 20:10:30 | <larou> | because whatever it ends up as, its not going to be legible |
| 20:10:52 | <larou> | all constraint continuations everywhere |
| 20:10:59 | <larou> | the worst... |
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| 20:12:00 | <larou> | like, with this "Let" uniqueness, i think i can use params in the GADT definition to explicate the cycles |
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| 20:12:58 | hackage | Z-Data 0.1.7.0 - Array, vector and text https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Z-Data-0.1.7.0 (winterland) |
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| 20:13:57 | hackage | numhask-free 0.0.1 - See readme.md https://hackage.haskell.org/package/numhask-free-0.0.1 (tonyday567) |
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| 20:15:35 | <dolio> | monochrom: It's a waste of time to try to change the mind of anyone who would say something like that. :) |
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| 20:24:45 | <maerwald> | he was right about commuting though |
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| 20:36:44 | <maerwald> | it's quite stressful, especially for an introvert haskeller |
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| 20:48:27 | <dolio> | maerwald: I mean saying, "... dependent rank-n types, change my mind." |
| 20:49:37 | <dolio> | You can probably shorted it to just the last part. |
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| 20:54:02 | <monochrom> | dolio: Haha yeah. No worries, I was joking. |
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| 20:54:36 | <monochrom> | wait, what commuting? |
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| 21:27:16 | <koz_> | I have a data type Foo, and wanna write a ... whatever you call it that allows a user to create values of Foo with a TH splice. |
| 21:27:26 | <koz_> | What do I need to read to understand how that works? |
| 21:27:34 | <koz_> | (quasi-quotation?) |
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| 21:30:13 | <monochrom> | Do you mean the [e| ... ] one? The $(...) one? |
| 21:31:04 | <koz_> | monochrom: Yeah, the [e|...] one. Like the one inline-c uses? |
| 21:31:17 | <monochrom> | Or neither, instead a function f :: X -> Q Exp so your users can write $(f ...) ? |
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| 21:31:48 | <koz_> | The [e| ... ] one is what I was after. |
| 21:31:56 | <koz_> | Dunno proper way to name it, or how to define my own... well, e. |
| 21:32:44 | <monochrom> | You cannot define your own e. Even though quasi quotation uses a similar syntax [ your_function_name | ... ] |
| 21:33:03 | <koz_> | OK, I'm clearly missing something here. |
| 21:33:11 | <monochrom> | However, if you write [e|...], the type is Q Exp |
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| 21:33:16 | <koz_> | Ah. |
| 21:33:39 | <koz_> | I want the [ your_function_name | ... ] syntax, but dunno how to write the your_function_name in question. |
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| 21:36:39 | <koz_> | Do I just need to write something like foo :: QuasiQuoter (plus definition) or something? |
| 21:36:51 | <koz_> | And then folks can use [ foo | ... ]? |
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| 21:39:37 | <koz_> | Sorry, [foo| ... |]. |
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| 21:41:14 | <monochrom> | So I think I ended up learning from just the user guide and the Language.Haskell.TH.* doc. Although the user guide used to refer to a haskellwiki page, which in turn also refer to a paper, I found the haskellwiki example too steep, and the paper, well, the user guide already points out that the paper is outdated. |
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| 21:41:33 | <koz_> | monochrom: OK, I think I have enough to go on. |
| 21:42:13 | <koz_> | What would I use to signal a (compile-time, I assume?) error in TH? I need to fill in the fields of QuasiQuoter corresponding to inappropriate contexts with errors, as per the docs. |
| 21:42:31 | <monochrom> | And of course, the user guide is too brief, and the Language.Haskell.TH.* doc too reference material. So I learned by trial and error. |
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| 21:43:26 | <monochrom> | For [foo|...] you write foo :: QuasiQuoter, yeah. |
| 21:43:57 | hackage | katip-datadog 0.2.0.0 - Datadog scribe for the Katip logging framework https://hackage.haskell.org/package/katip-datadog-0.2.0.0 (MichaelXavier) |
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| 21:46:05 | <monochrom> | Maybe Q being an instance of MonadFail helps the static error message. |
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| 21:46:28 | <koz_> | So just use fail "Error message goes here"? |
| 21:46:37 | <monochrom> | Oh, there are also reportError etc right at the beginning of the Language.Haskell.TH |
| 21:46:59 | <monochrom> | (well, after the long TOC) |
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| 21:47:20 | <monochrom> | Haha "Report an error to the user, but allow the current splice's computation to carry on. To abort the computation, use fail." |
| 21:47:27 | hackage | katip-elasticsearch 0.7.0.0 - ElasticSearch scribe for the Katip logging framework. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/katip-elasticsearch-0.7.0.0 (MichaelXavier) |
| 21:47:30 | <koz_> | So, fail's the way, got it. |
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| 21:48:58 | hackage | jsonifier 0.1 - Fast and simple JSON encoding toolkit https://hackage.haskell.org/package/jsonifier-0.1 (NikitaVolkov) |
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| 21:51:28 | hackage | jsonifier 0.1.0.1 - Fast and simple JSON encoding toolkit https://hackage.haskell.org/package/jsonifier-0.1.0.1 (NikitaVolkov) |
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| 21:54:20 | <monochrom> | I think TH ends up being one of those things that look like intimidating to learn because there are a lot of things, e.g., Language.Haskell.TH.Syntax is very long and detailed and comprehensive, but it turns out for 90% of use cases you only need to learn 10% of it. |
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| 21:55:37 | <monochrom> | For example, you can ignore all of Language.Haskell.TH.Syntax because you will just need to write [e| $(x) + 1|] instead of meticulously building the AST. |
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| 21:58:02 | <monochrom> | So the only things you really need to know are: There are Q Exp, Q [Dec], etc; Q is MonadIO, so you can always go liftIO (putStrLn "We thank our sponsor NordVPN. Do you need a VPN? ..."); how to prevent variable capture; how to deliberately cause variable capture. |
| 21:59:44 | <monochrom> | And TH's notion of declaration groups --- this affects visibility. |
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| 22:07:22 | <int-e> | monochrom: that's so triggering |
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| 22:08:01 | <int-e> | (the string literal, I mean) |
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| 22:13:28 | hackage | jsonifier 0.1.0.2 - Fast and simple JSON encoding toolkit https://hackage.haskell.org/package/jsonifier-0.1.0.2 (NikitaVolkov) |
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| 22:19:19 | <koz_> | monochrom: ROFL |
| 22:19:27 | <koz_> | NordVPN - now in your compile-time. |
| 22:20:11 | <monochrom> | Generally the proliferation of ad blurbs in all things free of charge. |
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| 22:26:03 | <koz_> | If I need to construct an application of a data constructor in an Exp, what do I put in the first argument of AppE? |
| 22:26:22 | <koz_> | (I assume I need AppE [data constructor goes here] [arguments to it go here]?) |
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| 22:28:07 | <koz_> | Would that be a VarE? |
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| 22:29:59 | <int-e> | koz_: `AppE` is function application on an expression level. |
| 22:30:46 | <koz_> | I need to construct the equivalent of 'Foo x y z', where 'data Foo = Foo Int String Float'. So how would I build that? |
| 22:30:48 | <monochrom> | ConE may help |
| 22:31:02 | <int-e> | if you have `A x y`, that'll be something like AppE (AppE (ConE nameA) (VarE nameX)) (VarE nameY). Which looks better if you use `AppE` as an infix operator, and probably least confusing if you use `appsE`, which takes a list. |
| 22:31:21 | <koz_> | Ah, I see. Con == constructor? |
| 22:31:34 | <monochrom> | Yeah, like that, be aware of (((Foo x) y) ... ad infinitum) |
| 22:31:35 | <int-e> | the latter would be appsE [ConE nameA, VarE nameX, VarE nameY] |
| 22:31:53 | <monochrom> | This is why usually [e| Foo ... |] is better. |
| 22:32:05 | <monochrom> | as in, better for your sanity and hair. :) |
| 22:32:09 | <koz_> | monochrom: Oh wait, I can do that? Nice. |
| 22:33:05 | <int-e> | monochrom: please tell us more about those sanity and hair things |
| 22:33:25 | <monochrom> | Oh, appsE make it easier, that's nice. |
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| 22:34:08 | <monochrom> | But still, handcoding the structure of the AST is very tedious. Too many nitpicking details to watch out for. You have to think like the compiler. |
| 22:34:40 | <int-e> | But absolutely, use a TH quotation when possible. |
| 22:34:52 | <koz_> | Noted. |
| 22:34:54 | <monochrom> | well, "compiler" is broad. You have to think like a Haskell parser. |
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| 22:39:20 | <monochrom> | The downside of [e|Foo x y z|] is of course, as usual, does that "Foo" really refer to the Foo you intend? Similarly for x, y, z. And variable capture issues, etc. |
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| 22:39:39 | <koz_> | monochrom: Whoo, such fun. |
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| 22:46:28 | hackage | churros 0.1.2.0 - Channel/Arrow based streaming computation library. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/churros-0.1.2.0 (LyndonMaydwell) |
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| 23:28:23 | <koz_> | Is (:::) a valid name for an infix operator? |
| 23:28:41 | <hpc> | :t (:::) |
| 23:28:43 | <lambdabot> | error: Data constructor not in scope: ::: |
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| 23:28:53 | <hpc> | it's a valid name for an infix data constructor |
| 23:29:00 | <koz_> | hpc: What about an infix function? |
| 23:29:03 | <hpc> | nope |
| 23:29:07 | <hpc> | ':' is uppercase |
| 23:29:08 | <hpc> | :D |
| 23:29:15 | <ghoulguy> | constructors can be functions |
| 23:29:19 | <Axman6> | because ; is lowercase =) |
| 23:29:20 | <monochrom> | Since it starts with : it has to stay as a data constructor. |
| 23:29:27 | <koz_> | Aww. |
| 23:29:28 | <hpc> | ghoulguy: shush :P |
| 23:29:44 | <Axman6> | ; is already a function though, it's (>>=) :P |
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| 23:29:51 | <koz_> | Axman6: Rofl. |
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| 23:36:25 | <monochrom> | May I talk you into ∷: |
| 23:36:33 | <koz_> | monochrom: |
| 23:36:38 | <koz_> | LOL |
| 23:37:11 | <monochrom> | U+2237 then colon |
| 23:37:27 | <justsomeguy> | seems to be the proportion symbol |
| 23:37:35 | <monochrom> | yeah |
| 23:37:57 | <Cale> | ⣶ |
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| 23:38:12 | <justsomeguy> | Dominoes or braille? |
| 23:38:21 | <Cale> | braille |
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| 23:40:18 | justsomeguy | has always thought it would be cool to have a colorscheme + font that de-emphasizes punctuation, makes ::: a ligature, and emboldens names. |
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| 23:40:26 | <justsomeguy> | ::, even |
| 23:41:20 | <koz_> | I can write 'foo . bar . baz $ quux'. Suppose I wanted to do the same with (>>>): '_ quux >>> baz >>> bar >>> foo'. What goes in _? |
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| 23:42:57 | <justsomeguy> | Maybe “Data.Function.&”? |
| 23:43:11 | <koz_> | :t (&) |
| 23:43:12 | <lambdabot> | a -> (a -> b) -> b |
| 23:43:26 | <justsomeguy> | It's like the reverse of “($)”. |
| 23:43:41 | <justsomeguy> | It's... also just my wild guess. |
| 23:44:20 | <koz_> | Can confirm it is not that, justsomeguy. |
| 23:44:30 | <koz_> | Someone told me this here a while ago, but I have since forgotten. |
| 23:44:41 | <justsomeguy> | Sorry ^_^; I tried. |
| 23:45:50 | <monochrom> | x & f >>> g >>> h |
| 23:46:04 | <monochrom> | I haven't checked precedence though. |
| 23:46:15 | <nshepperd2> | % :i & |
| 23:46:15 | <yahb> | nshepperd2: (&) :: a -> (a -> b) -> b -- Defined in `Data.Function'; infixl 1 & |
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| 23:46:20 | <nshepperd2> | % :i >>> |
| 23:46:20 | <yahb> | nshepperd2: (>>>) :: forall k (cat :: k -> k -> *) (a :: k) (b :: k) (c :: k). Category cat => cat a b -> cat b c -> cat a c -- Defined in `Control.Category'; infixr 1 >>> |
| 23:46:29 | <nshepperd2> | unfortunate |
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| 23:46:41 | <koz_> | monochrom: Yep, they're both infix 1, though with different associativity. |
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| 23:56:22 | <OmegaDoug> | With megaparsec, how can I parse just three digits? I want to parse "123.123" and believe I should be able to capture the first three digits using "fstThree <- count 3 L.decimal" but that produces the error "unexpected end of input" |
| 23:57:09 | <{abby}> | decimal is a number, for a digit you want digitChar |
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| 23:58:23 | <OmegaDoug> | {abby} That was exactly it. Thanks. |
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All times are in UTC on 2020-10-15.