Home freenode/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2020-10-20 (freenode/#haskell)

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00:53:02 <koz_> @hoogle ($>)
00:53:03 <lambdabot> Data.Functor ($>) :: Functor f => f a -> b -> f b
00:53:03 <lambdabot> Data.Functor.Compat ($>) :: Functor f => f a -> b -> f b
00:53:03 <lambdabot> Data.Functor.Apply ($>) :: Functor f => f a -> b -> f b
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01:28:34 <remexre> how does one write a (Free f a -> Free f a) effect? having a (a -> a) field on the functor would make it a non-functor...
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03:09:35 <koz_> remexre: What do you mean by a (Free f a -> Free f a) effect?
03:10:10 <remexre> how would I write an effect like local (from Reader), for example
03:10:35 <koz_> :t local
03:10:37 <lambdabot> MonadReader r m => (r -> r) -> m a -> m a
03:11:10 <koz_> You don't need Free in your functor definition - that's what defines the effect.
03:11:15 <koz_> let me just sketch it for you quickly.
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03:18:29 <koz_> remexre: Something like this I think. https://gist.github.com/kozross/a90e4554562d2f056d3c4c3c20da0545
03:20:05 koz_ actually had to refresh his memory even though he worked on free monads like, a week ago.
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03:22:15 <koz_> I think that's incorrect though. I figured out computation nesting once, and then promptly forgot about it.
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03:33:13 <remexre> koz_: I think we might be using different definitions of Free or something; I don't think that definition of Ask works for me either
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03:33:59 <remexre> mine would be Ask :: (r -> a) -> Reader r a
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03:39:52 <ghoulguy> The question is: How do I define Reader in terms of Free, and then write ask and local on top of that?
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03:42:03 <siraben> Ah, I think I've had that problem before when working with free monads, heh.
03:42:10 <siraben> Didn't get local to work
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04:10:00 <koz_> remexre: That doesn't make a lot of sense though, since the point of ask is 'retrieve the environment'. That looks like Asks.
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04:13:45 <koz_> But yeah, I guess I have no idea what I'm doing.
04:14:22 <koz_> Essentially, this is me: https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/234/765/b7e.jpg
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04:21:03 <ghoulguy> remexre: How about this? https://gist.github.com/glguy/a8be2d28c212c116a76035401710c4ad
04:21:45 <koz_> ghoulguy: Wait, are you going with a spooky season nick or something?
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04:22:17 <ghoulguy> Yeah, it's the thing to do in #freenode
04:22:22 <koz_> TIL.
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04:22:44 <koz_> I didn't realize who you were until just now.
04:22:56 <ghoulguy> In particular the freenode staff collectively think it's the thing to do :3
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05:41:32 <hololeap> is there a library that simplifies outputting some strings into columns/rows?
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05:52:07 <hololeap> for instance outputting something like [(String,String)] as a table in stdout
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05:55:01 <hololeap> i just found 'boxes' which looks promising
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06:01:58 hackage ptr-poker 0.1.1.2 - Pointer poking action construction and composition toolkit https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ptr-poker-0.1.1.2 (NikitaVolkov)
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06:18:56 <koz_> hololeap: I think most prettyprinter libraries offer something like this?
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06:59:33 <asheshambasta> Hi everyone, reflex-platform (?) related question. How does one override packages when using reflex-platform.project? I so far have: https://gist.github.com/asheshambasta/b18f21bc0bdf78b33b02cb846f4b83fe (based off https://github.com/srid/reflex-stone) where I'm trying to add the bulmex package.
06:59:39 <asheshambasta> (I'm also using niv here)
07:00:37 <asheshambasta> I can enter a nix-shell; but I get a "called without default argument "bulmex-custom"" error.
07:01:48 <asheshambasta> (when firing up cabal; which has bulmex-custom as one of its dependencies.)
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07:04:50 <Echosolace> Hey, newb here looking at sum . replicate 5 . max 6.7 $ 8.9
07:05:00 <Echosolace> Can someone tell me if my understanding is correct?
07:05:05 <Echosolace> It goes like this -
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07:07:33 <Echosolace> max calls two parameters, so we are left with max 6.7 and a variable, let's call it a. It's a partial function, which is then called by replicate, which leaves us with a list that looks like this: [max 6.7 a, max 6.7 a, max 6.7 a, max 6.7 a, max 6.7 a]. Sum is called on that list, but now since a is undefined, it finally reaches out and replaces a with 8.9 and sums 5 x 8.9.
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07:10:05 <merijn> Echosolace: Not really
07:10:12 <Echosolace> Sigh*
07:10:13 <suzu_> you have it backwards
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07:10:22 <merijn> Echosolace: You are overthinking the partial application thing
07:10:49 <merijn> Echosolace: Let's work backwards rewriting things
07:10:54 <Echosolace> Ok
07:11:00 <merijn> $ has the lowest precedence, so we start there
07:11:08 <merijn> f $ x = f x
07:11:09 <Echosolace> Yep. Everything to the left first.
07:11:10 <merijn> So
07:11:26 <merijn> (sum . replicate 5 . max 6.7) 8.9
07:11:39 <Echosolace> Yes.
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07:11:51 <merijn> f . g = \x -> f (g x)
07:12:15 <suzu_> the stuff in the braces is a function that gets called with 8.9
07:12:19 <Echosolace> f of g
07:12:23 <merijn> SO you get ((\x -> sum (replicate 5 x)) . max 6.7) 8.9
07:13:07 <merijn> (\y -> (\x -> sum (replicate 5 x)) (max 6.7 y)) 8.9
07:13:21 <merijn> Then we can simplify
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07:13:43 <merijn> (\y -> sum (replicate 5 (max 6.7 y))) 8.9
07:13:46 <merijn> And finally
07:13:59 <merijn> sum (replicate 5 (max 6.7 8.9))
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07:15:18 <Echosolace> Ok ok I think that helped... The stuff in the braces is a function that gets called with the outside parameter... got it.
07:15:31 <merijn> Although in practice you normally read "f . g . h" sorta like a pipeline where a values goes into 'h', it's result goes into 'g', and that result goes into 'f' (which, as you can see is exactly what happens in the elaborate version I wrote out
07:16:08 <merijn> Without constructing all the lambda's in your head, because that's a load of bookkeeping
07:16:15 <ghoulguy> I think it might help to rewrite (f.g.h) to (f.(g.h)) as an explicit step
07:17:03 <merijn> Possibly, but I had was too lazy to figure out the brace and (fortunately) "f.(g.h)" and "(f.g).h" are the same ;)
07:18:09 <ghoulguy> They end up being the same. I suppose it's convenient to collapse that all at once to \x->f(g(h x))
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07:18:58 <dminuoso> Mmm, can a generic function to provide isomorphisms between arbitrary tuples (that is `f :: (S,T,U) -> ((S,T),U)`, `f :: (S,T,U) -> (S,(T,U))`, `f :: ((S,T),U) -> (S,T,U)` exist at all?
07:18:59 <merijn> Yeah, that's what my brain does, but that feels too much like "voodoo" for beginners, I think :)
07:19:19 <merijn> I like dumb, mechanical rewrite rules, because anyone get understand them and they work really well in Haskell :)
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07:25:27 <Echosolace> Ok this one has been doing my head in for a couple of days. It seems so similiar to the previous one - replicate 100 . product . map (*3) . zipWith max [1,2,3,4,5] $ [4,5,6,7,8]
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07:25:54 <Echosolace> So a lengthy function is being called on 4,5..8
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07:26:10 <Echosolace> max determines that 4,5..8 is bigger.
07:26:20 <Echosolace> it's the zipWith that has me confused.
07:26:27 <Echosolace> There's nothing to zipWith...
07:26:42 <merijn> :t zipWith
07:26:43 <lambdabot> (a -> b -> c) -> [a] -> [b] -> [c]
07:26:53 <Echosolace> What...
07:26:57 <Echosolace> :t zipWith
07:26:57 <opqdonut> Echosolace: zipWith max [1,2,3,4] [4,5,6,7] ==> [max 1 4, max 2 5, max 3 6, max 4 7]
07:26:59 <lambdabot> (a -> b -> c) -> [a] -> [b] -> [c]
07:27:04 <Echosolace> Holy shit you can do that here?
07:27:11 <merijn> Yes? :p
07:27:17 <merijn> :t zipWith max
07:27:18 <lambdabot> Ord c => [c] -> [c] -> [c]
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07:27:26 <Echosolace> wtf you can type multiples?
07:27:36 <Echosolace> Yo.
07:27:39 <merijn> Echosolace: The flaw in your reasoning is that max isn't being applied to those lists
07:27:47 <merijn> zipWith is being applied to max
07:28:14 <merijn> And then "zipWith max" is applied first to one list and then "zipWith max [1,2,3,4]" is applied to the final list
07:29:02 <merijn> Echosolace: In general "foo bar baz quux" is parenthesised as "(((foo bar) baz) quux)"
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07:29:26 <merijn> The exception is operator which are binary and *always* have lower precedence then function application
07:30:12 <merijn> So "replicate 100 . product . map (*3) . zipWith max [1,2,3,4,5]" is "(replicate 100) . product . (map (*3)) . (zipWith max [1,2,3,4,5])"
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07:31:16 <merijn> > zipWith f [1,2,3,4] [5,6,7,8]
07:31:18 <lambdabot> error:
07:31:19 <lambdabot> • Ambiguous type variable ‘c0’ arising from a use of ‘show_M201622632345...
07:31:19 <lambdabot> prevents the constraint ‘(Show c0)’ from being solved.
07:31:28 <merijn> > zipWith f [1,2,3,4] [5,6,7,8] :: [Expr]
07:31:30 <lambdabot> [f 1 5,f 2 6,f 3 7,f 4 8]
07:31:48 <merijn> opqdonut: ^^ lazily not writing things out like a pro ;)
07:31:49 <Echosolace> Thanks, it's all still processing...
07:32:09 <opqdonut> merijn: heh, I can never trust myself to get the expr stuff to work "live"
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07:34:08 <Echosolace> > max 4 5
07:34:10 <lambdabot> 5
07:34:14 <Echosolace> So cool.
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07:34:40 <Echosolace> > max [1,2,3,4] [4,5,6,7]
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07:34:42 <lambdabot> [4,5,6,7]
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07:42:57 <Echosolace> This stuff is beautiful...
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07:43:16 <Echosolace> So, maybe someone can hear out my understanding.
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07:43:58 <Echosolace> zipWith uses the function max to tie the two lists together... a la [max 1 4, max 2 5, max 3 6, max 4 7]
07:44:22 <Echosolace> map then ties *3 to each list element.
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07:45:10 <Echosolace> so now we have [ (max 1 4) * 3, (max 2 5) * 3, (max 3 6) * 3, (max 4 7) *3]
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07:45:50 <Echosolace> replicate 100 . product . map (*3) . zipWith max [1,2,3,4,5]" is "(replicate 100) . product . (map (*3)) . (zipWith max [1,2,3,4,5])"
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07:46:09 <Echosolace> Then that gets evaluated, then each element is multiplied together...
07:46:24 <Echosolace> and then repeated into a list 100 times?
07:47:12 <Echosolace> Original reference - replicate 100 . product . map (*3) . zipWith max [1,2,3,4,5] $ [4,5,6,7,8]
07:47:25 <Echosolace> > replicate 100 . product . map (*3) . zipWith max [1,2,3,4,5] $ [4,5,6,7,8]
07:47:27 <lambdabot> [1632960,1632960,1632960,1632960,1632960,1632960,1632960,1632960,1632960,163...
07:47:37 <Echosolace> Sure looks like it...
07:48:14 <Echosolace> > 12 x 15 x 18 x 21
07:48:16 <lambdabot> error:
07:48:16 <lambdabot> • Could not deduce (Num t0)
07:48:16 <lambdabot> from the context: (Num t, Num t3, Num t4,
07:48:30 <Echosolace> > 12 * 15 * 18 * 21
07:48:32 <lambdabot> 68040
07:48:57 <Echosolace> > 12 * 15 * 18 * 21 * 24
07:48:59 <lambdabot> 1632960
07:49:17 <Echosolace> Thanks for the help!
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07:56:06 <Echosolace> Just finished the higher order functions chapter on learn you a haskell. It was daunting but ya'll helped a bunch, thanks! Woot!
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07:59:28 hackage jsonifier 0.1.0.4 - Fast and simple JSON encoding toolkit https://hackage.haskell.org/package/jsonifier-0.1.0.4 (NikitaVolkov)
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08:07:54 <merijn> Echosolace: One side note about your use of "and then" is that the evaluation order of Haskell isn't defined (well, that's a bit of an oversimplification, but it will do for now) so there's no real notion of "and then", they key is that in a pure setting the order becomes irrelevant
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08:52:49 <dminuoso> ito :: (s -> (i, a)) -> IndexedGetter i s a
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08:53:04 <dminuoso> Im looking for a variant of `to` that gets access to the current index. Is there such a thing?
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08:53:54 <dminuoso> That is, some `((i, s) -> a) -> IndexedGetter i s a` maybe?
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08:58:27 <edwardk> :t withIndex
08:58:28 <lambdabot> (Indexable i p, Functor f) => p (i, s) (f (j, t)) -> Indexed i s (f t)
08:59:33 <edwardk> :t withIndex.to _foo
08:59:39 <lambdabot> error:
08:59:39 <lambdabot> • Found hole: _foo :: (j, t) -> a
08:59:39 <lambdabot> Where: ‘j’, ‘t’, ‘a’ are rigid type variables bound by
08:59:45 <edwardk> like that?
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09:00:37 <edwardk> you need to use it inside of some context where you have an index, of course
09:00:55 <edwardk> :t itraversed.withIndex
09:00:57 <lambdabot> (TraversableWithIndex i t, Indexable i p, Applicative f) => p (i, a) (f (j, b)) -> t a -> f (t b)
09:01:07 <edwardk> :t itraversed.withIndex.to id
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09:01:09 <lambdabot> (TraversableWithIndex j t, Indexable j p, Contravariant f, Applicative f) => p (j, b) (f (j, b)) -> t b -> f (t b)
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09:02:46 <dminuoso> % toListOf (itraversed . withIndex) ([1,2,3] :: [Int])
09:02:47 <yahb> dminuoso: [(0,1),(1,2),(2,3)]
09:02:50 <dminuoso> edwardk: Looks about right, cheers!
09:03:18 <edwardk> :t asIndex
09:03:19 <lambdabot> (Indexable i p, Contravariant f, Functor f) => p i (f i) -> Indexed i s (f s)
09:03:32 <edwardk> also exists and might be useful in some situations
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09:05:28 <dminuoso> edwardk: I guess `asIndex = withIndex . to fst` roughly?
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09:05:37 <edwardk> yeah
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09:52:13 <siraben> Anyone know what I should do if I want to install the latest haskell-language-server from https://github.com/haskell/haskell-language-server ? Here's what the derivation looks like, http://ix.io/2BlI
09:52:14 <siraben> But it's missing an argument hls-tactics-plugin, which is not in haskellPackages yet
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09:52:31 <siraben> edwardk: saw that your recursive PR got merged to master
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10:00:57 hackage attoparsec-data 1.0.5.1 - Parsers for the standard Haskell data types https://hackage.haskell.org/package/attoparsec-data-1.0.5.1 (NikitaVolkov)
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11:36:28 hackage phonetic-languages-rhythmicity 0.1.2.0 - Allows to estimate the rhythmicity metrices for the text (usually, the Ukrainian poetic one) https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-rhythmicity-0.1.2.0 (OleksandrZhabenko)
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12:12:27 hackage sweet-egison 0.1.1.3 - Shallow embedding implementation of non-linear pattern matching https://hackage.haskell.org/package/sweet-egison-0.1.1.3 (SatoshiEgi)
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12:17:25 <dminuoso> Mmm, Im generating a lot of boiler plate code using haskell-src-exts, suddenly I realized I might want to generate a few bits of haddock as well, but haskell-src-exts seems to not know about comments at all.
12:17:27 <dminuoso> What are my options here?
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12:19:28 <dminuoso> Oh.. turns out I wasn't reading the haddock clearly.
12:19:30 <dminuoso> http://hackage.haskell.org/package/haskell-src-exts-1.18.2/docs/Language-Haskell-Exts-Comments.html
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12:33:23 <tomjaguarpaw> What's the standard idiom for zipping more than three lists together?
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12:33:39 <merijn> tomjaguarpaw: Applicative
12:33:48 <merijn> tomjaguarpaw: Lemme introduce you to your saviour
12:34:05 <merijn> > (+) <$> ZipList [1..5] <*> ZipList [6..10]
12:34:08 <lambdabot> ZipList {getZipList = [7,9,11,13,15]}
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12:34:37 <merijn> tomjaguarpaw: Turns out n-wise zipping is a lawful Applicative ;)
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12:39:19 <ski> > [x + y | x <- [1 .. 5] | y <- [6 .. 10]]
12:39:22 <lambdabot> [7,9,11,13,15]
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12:40:45 <merijn> ski: That one requires an extension, though :p
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12:43:17 <tomjaguarpaw> Thanks, I think I will use zipWith ($)
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12:45:22 <merijn> That doesn't work for more than 3, though :p
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12:57:38 <dminuoso> ski: ParallelListComp is an extension I've never seen in use anywhere.
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12:58:43 <Taneb> > (,,,,) <$> ZipList "hello" <*> ZipList [1..5] <*> ZipList "world" <*> ZipList [6..10]
12:58:45 <lambdabot> error:
12:58:45 <lambdabot> • No instance for (Typeable e0)
12:58:45 <lambdabot> arising from a use of ‘show_M2158027891849958446363’
12:58:52 <Taneb> > (,,,) <$> ZipList "hello" <*> ZipList [1..5] <*> ZipList "world" <*> ZipList [6..10]
12:58:54 <lambdabot> ZipList {getZipList = [('h',1,'w',6),('e',2,'o',7),('l',3,'r',8),('l',4,'l',...
12:59:02 <Taneb> I can definitely count commas no problem
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13:11:12 <ski> > zipWith ($) (zipWith ($) (zipWith (,,,) "hello" [0 .. 4]) "world") [5 .. 9]
13:11:15 <lambdabot> [('h',0,'w',5),('e',1,'o',6),('l',2,'r',7),('l',3,'l',8),('o',4,'d',9)]
13:11:48 <ski> > let with = zipWith ($) in repeat (,,,) `with` "hello" `with` [0 .. 4] `with` "world" `with` [5 .. 9]
13:11:51 <lambdabot> [('h',0,'w',5),('e',1,'o',6),('l',2,'r',7),('l',3,'l',8),('o',4,'d',9)]
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13:14:03 <dminuoso> Pattern match checker exceeded (2000000) iterations in a case alternative. (Use -fmax-pmcheck-iterations=n to set the maximun number of iterations to n)
13:14:06 <dminuoso> I should feel bad
13:14:16 <dminuoso> Also, that typo in maximun :>
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13:15:04 <dminuoso> Perhaps I should stop doing case-of here, and just use non-inlined top level maps..
13:15:33 <ski> is it checking exhaustiveness and non-overlap ?
13:15:49 <dminuoso> Probably, yes.
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13:16:30 <dminuoso> I mean this is a 2,000 constructor coproduct type.
13:16:40 <dminuoso> It's reasonable that GHC has some limits.
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13:18:55 <ski> yea
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13:20:15 <phadej> if the code is generated, you can (and maybe even should) disable pattern-match checks
13:20:41 <phadej> you should rathere test that codegenerator makes sensible code on smaller examples :)
13:20:58 <phadej> i.e. "if you generate code, generate code which is fast to compile"
13:21:23 <dminuoso> phadej: Honestly, had I done that, I wouldn't have discovered a nasty bug that only occured in one of those large data types. :)
13:21:32 <dminuoso> So Im keeping this on.
13:21:40 <merijn> dminuoso: pfft, amateur
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13:21:45 <merijn> dminuoso: Just don't write bugs
13:21:54 <dminuoso> I didn't write a bug. My code generator did!
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13:22:05 <phadej> what kind of bug, why only in larger datatypes?
13:22:28 <dminuoso> Oh, it wasn't even the size. The problem only manifested with a particular data type that also happened to be very large.
13:22:51 <phadej> then you didn't test your codegen properly
13:22:55 <dminuoso> heh
13:23:05 <dminuoso> Yeah this is all very adhoc
13:23:12 <dminuoso> And Im being punished badly for it
13:23:48 <dminuoso> to be fair, ghc diagnostics *are* tests for my codegen
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13:25:24 <phadej> yes, but they run faster on the smaller datatypes :)
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13:26:56 <dminuoso> phadej: Very roughly, I was building up a `Map String Int` where strings correspond to constructors, and the Map represents an Enum instance. I failed to check whether this was injective or not.
13:27:14 <dminuoso> And in some particular degenerate case, the source data had duplicate data.
13:27:55 <phadej> heh. something similar happend with tzdata just recently
13:28:02 <phadej> they mangle timezonenames into constructor names
13:28:23 <phadej> and that mangling failed to be injective with recent additions of timezones in IANA db
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13:41:36 <remexre> ghoulguy: yeah, looks like that works; I'll try and see if hoistFree will work for my case too
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14:06:51 <DigitalKiwi> what's injective mean
14:07:06 <Uniaika> like for sets
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14:09:39 <Cheery> DigitalKiwi: it means that you can figure from the output what the input was.
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14:12:41 <Cheery> Eg. (/2) is not injective, because 1/2 and 2/2 produce same result.
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14:13:02 <Cheery> > (1/2, 2/2) :: (Int, Int)
14:13:05 <lambdabot> error:
14:13:05 <lambdabot> • No instance for (Fractional Int) arising from a use of ‘/’
14:13:05 <lambdabot> • In the expression: 1 / 2
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14:13:47 <Cheery> haskell has no floordiv?
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14:14:35 <Cheery> ah it has better.
14:14:54 <Cheery> > (quot 2 2, quot 3 2)
14:14:58 <lambdabot> (1,1)
14:15:22 <Cheery> Ug good at math.
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14:15:43 <opqdonut> see also: div
14:16:03 <opqdonut> > (div 3 2, quot 3 2, div (-3) 2, quot (-3) 2)
14:16:05 <lambdabot> (1,1,-2,-1)
14:16:44 <opqdonut> and divMod and quotRem
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14:18:13 <JetNoBrains> Why `r` parameter in `ContT` transformer isn't universally quantified inside constructor?
14:18:41 <Taneb> JetNoBrains: because that would be a different, less powerful
14:18:43 <Taneb> type
14:18:46 <DigitalKiwi> thanks
14:19:48 <Taneb> JetNoBrains: having it outside lets us reset :: Cont r r -> Cont r' r
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14:22:09 <JetNoBrains> Taneb interesting, but I can't find such function in mtl - where it is located?
14:22:44 <Taneb> It's in Control.Monad.Trans.Cont in transformers
14:23:17 <Taneb> I'm a little surprised that mtl doesn't reexport it
14:23:24 <JetNoBrains> Thanks, will take a look!
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14:24:05 <Taneb> JetNoBrains: the type you described, with the r parameter quantified on the inside of the constructor, is Control.Monad.Codensity in the kan-extensions package
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14:31:33 <JetNoBrains> I'm reading an article https://ro-che.info/articles/2019-06-07-why-use-contt where author uses ContT to manage resources, here "universality" of `r` is moved to function level
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14:32:03 <JetNoBrains> But it seems that building intuition for ContT as "lifetime management" is not complete
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14:42:09 <maerwald> with 3 words, do you do `foo $ bar baz` or `foo . bar $ baz`? :D
14:43:10 <ski> either the latter, or `(foo . bar) baz' or `foo (bar baz)'
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14:43:55 <JetNoBrains> `foo (bar baz)` anyone? :)
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14:44:25 <ski> DigitalKiwi : two different timezones had the same name, apparently
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14:45:37 <ski> `f :: T -> U' being injective means that given different `T' inputs, it produces different `U' outputs. in a formula, one can say it like `forall (x0 :: T) (x1 :: T). f x0 = f x1 => x0 = x1' (if the outputs are the same, then the inputs must also have been the same)
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14:47:14 <ski> data constructors are injective in Haskell. this means that you can pattern-match uniquely. if a value matches `Just x0' and also matches `Just x1', then `x0' is the same as `x1'. so in the pattern `Just x', there's no ambiguity about what `x' would be. the only question is whether there exists such an `x' at all (if the input is `Nothing', then there is no `x' such that the input is equal to `Just x')
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14:49:13 <ski> however, if you're doing an abstract data type, often you want to simulate a "quotient type", and then, conceptually, the data constructor (which should not be exported) is not injective. e.g. the same `Set' (or `Map') can potentially be represented internally as different (balanced) trees
14:49:39 <fresheyeball> I got a hardish one
14:49:47 <fresheyeball> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/servant-server-0.14.1/docs/Servant-Server-StaticFiles.html#v:serveDirectoryWith
14:50:00 <fresheyeball> I need to replicate the behavior of this function but for a new Servant combinator
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14:50:29 <fresheyeball> and I just cannot get the types to unify
14:50:54 <fresheyeball> I don't totally understand what is going on in Servant but I can get my custom version to compile
14:50:59 <fresheyeball> with the correct implimentation
14:51:02 <fresheyeball> but with the following type
14:51:07 <ski> another example would be doing rational numbers. we could have `data Ratio a = a :% a', where `1 :% 2' is supposed to represent the same rational number as `2 :% 4'. so, conceptually, if you match on `n :% d', uniqueness of `n' and `d' isn't given. meaning, you have to make sure that the result is the same (or behaves the same), if the input had instead been another representation of the same rational number
14:51:22 <fresheyeball> StaticSettings -> Tagged (Get '[HTML] (Html m a)) Application
14:51:32 <fresheyeball> that type works for the implimentation
14:51:38 <fresheyeball> but I need it to be this
14:51:46 <fresheyeball> StaticSettings -> ServerT (Get '
14:51:57 raichoo_ is now known as raichoo
14:52:08 <fresheyeball> StaticSettings -> ServerT (Get '[HTML] (Html m a)) Handler
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14:52:27 <fresheyeball> the same exact implimentation is what is used for the library version, I don't get what is wrong
14:52:35 <fresheyeball> and the library version has this type
14:52:45 <fresheyeball> StaticSettings -> ServerT Raw Handler
14:53:09 <fresheyeball> Tagged is kind polymorphic in a way I don't understand, and I could use help
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15:04:19 <hyperisco> renamePath on my system (Windows) seems to truncate the file
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15:06:29 <hyperisco> as does copyFile oO
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15:09:57 <phadej> hyperisco: is the file over 2GB in size?
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15:10:44 <hyperisco> actually seemed to be a bug or something in vscode and it wasn't reading the current version of the file
15:11:33 <phadej> it would much nicer if random int32 bug still happened in 2020
15:11:40 <phadej> s/nicer/more interesting/
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17:13:15 <yushyin> hackage returns 503 for a lot of urls :/ https://hackage.haskell.org/package/system-filepath-0.4.14/docs/Filesystem-Path-CurrentOS.html
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17:17:58 <statusbot> Status update: The host is fixing the switch, hopefully resolved shortly. -- http://status.haskell.org/pages/incident/537c07b0cf1fad5830000093/5f8f1bc50f323c04c157dbeb
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17:18:32 <yushyin> oh
17:19:55 <geekosaur> #haskell-infrastructure is where to ask about these things, by the way
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17:20:07 <yushyin> that explains it
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17:48:39 <Athas> I'm mystified that haskell-mode's built-in "autocompletion" is about showing me the grammar for syntactic constructs.
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17:49:11 <Athas> Showing me the type of the term would be more useful. Especially since Haskell's syntax is so flexible that just listing the grammar is hardly useful.
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17:55:30 <tomsmeding> Athas: does haskell-mode use a ghc under the hood? I think showing syntactic grammar is all you can do without getting into the weeds of all that haskell-ide-engine, ghcide, etc are doing
17:56:07 <tomsmeding> which involves building IDE-like functionality against the API of the ghc your project is using, etc
17:56:15 <Athas> It does not. And I guess what I'm really sad about is that such a significant technical infrastructure is needed to do things that ought not be very difficult.
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17:56:38 <tomsmeding> perhaps it ought not to be very difficult in a language that is not as complicated as Haskell :p
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17:57:30 <tomsmeding> or do you mean that harnessing ghc should not be as difficult?
17:57:46 <Athas> I do wonder what motivated this grammar hinting, though. I cannot think of what would have motivated its inclusion.
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17:58:16 tomsmeding neither
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18:21:54 <frdg> is `monotonicity` a relevant concept in Haskell?
18:22:25 <monochrom> Depends on context. But probably yes.
18:23:05 <monochrom> Depends on context, but monotonicity could be relevant to all computing. All computable functions are monotonic.
18:23:28 hackage versions 4.0.0 - Types and parsers for software version numbers. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/versions-4.0.0 (fosskers)
18:23:31 <frdg> The context I am thinking of is if I can benefit by ensuring all of my functions are monotonic.
18:23:56 <frdg> or does Haskell ensure that implicitly?
18:23:58 <koz_> frdg: mapMonotonic et al in Data.Map maybe?
18:24:06 <monochrom> The context determines which "monotonic" we're talking about.
18:24:11 <koz_> I don't think Haskell can ensure something like monotonicity.
18:24:19 <koz_> (of any stripe)
18:24:41 <monochrom> In other words, which partial order you have in mind.
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18:25:05 <frdg> I know of monotonicity through learning Prolog
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18:25:26 <frdg> so whatever the context is in Prolog I guess.
18:25:26 <koz_> Wait, are we talking about monotonicity of entailment?
18:25:49 <frdg> koz_: yes just found that
18:25:50 <monochrom> https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell/Denotational_semantics
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18:26:14 <frdg> Ill read this
18:26:36 <monochrom> I don't know Prolog's monotonicity of entailment.
18:27:00 <monochrom> TLDR ctrl-f for "semantic approximation order"
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18:27:00 <koz_> monochrom: It's a property of some logics.
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18:27:24 <dolio> Naturally computable functions are monotone with respect to a specific partial order, not every possible partial order.
18:27:28 hackage lp-diagrams 2.1.3 - An EDSL for diagrams based based on linear constraints https://hackage.haskell.org/package/lp-diagrams-2.1.3 (JeanPhilippeBernardy)
18:27:30 <frdg> This post has a nice answer: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/43314658/what-are-the-requirements-a-computer-function-must-meet-to-be-considered-monoto
18:27:37 <dolio> Some of which may disagree with each other. :)
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18:30:27 <tomsmeding> frdg: the monotonicity of entailment as described in that SO answer is specific to logical derivation; what would you then mean with "ensuring all of my functions are monotonic" in haskell?
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18:31:36 <frdg> tomsmeding: that question doesn't make sense does it?
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18:31:54 <monochrom> It makes sense iff you can give examples and counterexamples.
18:32:32 <tomsmeding> in other words: strictly that definition of monotonicity doesn't really apply, but that doesn't mean there is not another definition that you have in mind that _is_ relevant :)
18:34:47 <frdg> say you had a pipeline of composed functions. A function could be "monotonic" if it's addition to the pipeline restricts the size of the codomain. If it enlarges the size then it is not monotonic.
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18:36:37 <frdg> though I cannot think of any pure function that would be "non-monotonic" in this definition.
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18:38:28 <ski> what about `(>= 0) . abs' vs. `(>= 0) . subtract 1 . abs' ?
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18:38:45 <frdg> restricts the size of the range not codomain.
18:39:00 <ski> what does "restricts the size of the codomain" mean ?
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18:42:41 <frdg> ski: I believe that both these function would fit this definition of monotonic if we added a rule that the function could at most preserve the size of the functions range.
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18:45:36 <ski> "monotonic" usually refers to some partial order. what is the partial order, in your case ?
18:46:27 hackage lp-diagrams 2.1.4 - An EDSL for diagrams based based on linear constraints https://hackage.haskell.org/package/lp-diagrams-2.1.4 (JeanPhilippeBernardy)
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18:47:40 <frdg> skit: the size of the range.
18:47:57 <frdg> ski
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18:49:35 <ski> so you define `f =< g' to mean `forall y. (exists x. f x = y) => (exists x. g x = y)' ?
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18:55:16 <frdg> ski: You mean `=<` as less or equal right?
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18:58:34 <frdg> ski: to me this definition would be for equality of functions.
18:59:50 <merijn> hmm
18:59:59 <merijn> Why is there no foldMapM? :\
19:01:30 <kuribas> foldTraverse?
19:01:41 <monochrom> Since M is involved, order matters now. Should foldMapM mean left to right? right to left? top down? bottom up?
19:01:56 <merijn> monochrom: eh
19:02:07 <merijn> monochrom: That matters for monoids too
19:02:17 <merijn> monochrom: So that's a bit of a non argument
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19:02:40 <kuribas> left to right
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19:03:03 <merijn> monochrom: Exhibit A: Alt
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19:04:00 <phadej> :t Control.MOnad.foldM
19:04:02 <lambdabot> error:
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19:04:03 <lambdabot> Not in scope: ‘Control.MOnad.foldM’
19:04:03 <lambdabot> Perhaps you meant one of these:
19:04:05 <phadej> :t Control.Monad.foldM
19:04:07 <lambdabot> (Foldable t, Monad m) => (b -> a -> m b) -> b -> t a -> m b
19:04:19 <merijn> monochrom: Perhaps you were thinking of commutative monoids? :p
19:04:27 <monochrom> No.
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19:04:38 <merijn> phadej: Yeah, but then I need to write an awkward wrapper :\
19:04:45 <phadej> (a <> b) <> c = a <> (b <> c)
19:04:59 <phadej> if <> would "print" something, these will sequence effects in different order
19:05:27 hackage parsek 1.0.4.0 - Parallel Parsing Processes https://hackage.haskell.org/package/parsek-1.0.4.0 (JeanPhilippeBernardy)
19:05:29 <phadej> but if you don't care, then foldMapM would just work
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19:06:12 <phadej> looks like rio and relude define foldMapM
19:06:16 <merijn> phadej: But that doesn't hold for "(Monad m, Monoid r) => (a -> m r) -> [a] -> m r"
19:06:26 <merijn> phadej: <> can't have an effect there
19:06:40 <merijn> phadej: That's just Alt/liftA2 (<>)
19:06:41 <monochrom> Data.Foldable.foldlM and foldrM
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19:06:53 <phadej> merijn: there you can still can traverse in arbitrary order
19:06:55 <merijn> both of which have perfectly well defined semantics
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19:06:59 <phadej> but I guess you'd expect `traverse` order
19:07:05 <merijn> phadej: Yes, but the traversal order also impacts the monoid
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19:07:31 <merijn> The order of traversal matters for foldMap *anyway*
19:07:41 <phadej> :t \f -> fmap fold . traverse f
19:07:43 <lambdabot> (Monoid b, Traversable t, Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f b
19:07:44 <merijn> So the fact that it matters for foldMapM is trivial
19:07:50 <merijn> Of course it does
19:07:50 <monochrom> Not that order. The other order.
19:08:16 <phadej> fmapTraverse should be a member of `Traversable`
19:08:25 <phadej> \f g -> fmap f . traverse g
19:08:26 <phadej> :t \f g -> fmap f . traverse g
19:08:27 hackage flashblast 0.0.4.0 - Generate language learning flashcards from video. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/flashblast-0.0.4.0 (locallycompact)
19:08:28 <lambdabot> (Traversable t, Applicative f) => (t b1 -> b2) -> (a -> f b1) -> t a -> f b2
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19:09:18 <merijn> monochrom: Please show me how the traversal order "doesn't matter" for "Just . First" :)
19:10:04 <phadej> it doesn't matter, Maybe is commutative effect
19:10:22 <merijn> phadej: eh, it does...
19:10:28 <merijn> phadej: You get a different value
19:10:42 <phadej> you don't
19:11:10 <monochrom> evaluation order and confluence, vs execution order and effects?
19:11:13 <phadej> yes
19:11:19 <monochrom> Must I spell it out?
19:11:29 <phadej> no, let's just stop
19:11:41 <phadej> \f -> fmap fold . traverse f -- is what merijn wants
19:11:56 <merijn> Given a datatype "Foo a" the result of both foldMap and hypothetical foldMapM is dependent on the traversal order of Foo, yes or no?
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19:12:25 <phadej> https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/13153 looks like I'm not the only one who wants mapTraverse
19:13:06 <phadej> merijn: ...
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19:14:17 <phadej> monochrom meant that if "Foo" is a tree, foldMap can reassosiate the <>, and that shouldn't matter for the end result
19:14:40 <phadej> as in, foldMap implementation may use associativity of <> to its advantage
19:14:44 <merijn> phadej: Well my type only admits the Alt monoid in which case it *doesn't* matter
19:15:00 <phadej> but that's different "order" then traverse-ing
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19:15:39 <merijn> phadej: I'm trying to determine where the asssumptions diverge that leads to monochrom disagreeing.
19:15:55 <merijn> afaict the type I want only admits the Alt implementation in which case reassociating <> is irrelevant
19:15:59 <phadej> internet, where people disagree just because
19:16:19 <merijn> (well, that's a lie I guess it also admits the dual of Alt)
19:16:40 <merijn> Either way, reassociating of <> doesn't affect the result, effects or no
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19:17:38 <monochrom> So you don't need a general polymorphic function that covers all Foldable instances.
19:17:40 <merijn> So only the traversal order has an impact on the behaviour of effects, but that has effect on <> anyway
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19:19:16 <merijn> monochrom: Ok, so the disagreement (seems?) to be whether "foldMapM :: (Foldable t, Applicative f, Monoid r) => (a -> f r) -> t a -> f r" admits an implementation other than "\f -> getAlt . foldMap (Alt . f)"
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19:19:40 <phadej> :t \f -> fmap fold . traverse f . toList
19:19:41 <monochrom> s/implementation/expectation/
19:19:42 <lambdabot> error:
19:19:42 <lambdabot> Ambiguous occurrence ‘toList’
19:19:42 <lambdabot> It could refer to
19:19:46 <phadej> :t \f -> fmap fold . traverse f . Data.Foldable.toList
19:19:48 <lambdabot> (Monoid b, Applicative f, Foldable t) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f b
19:20:33 <phadej> I guess that's the same
19:20:41 <merijn> monochrom: Do you agree that "\f -> getAlt . foldMap (Alt . f)" always has the same result, regardless of any reassociating that foldMap happens to do?
19:21:55 <phadej> no that's different. Alt would have Alternative somewhere
19:22:03 <phadej> :t \f -> getAlt . foldMap (Alt . f)
19:22:05 <lambdabot> forall k (t :: * -> *) (f :: k -> *) (a1 :: k) a2. (Foldable t, Monoid (Alt f a1)) => (a2 -> f a1) -> t a2 -> f a1
19:22:06 <merijn> oh, wait
19:22:08 <merijn> I mean Ap
19:22:16 <merijn> my bad
19:22:23 <merijn> That's what I get for writing form memory
19:22:23 <phadej> :t \f -> getAp . foldMap (Ap . f)
19:22:24 <lambdabot> forall k (t :: * -> *) (f :: k -> *) (a1 :: k) a2. (Foldable t, Monoid (Ap f a1)) => (a2 -> f a1) -> t a2 -> f a1
19:22:49 <phadej> :t \f xs -> getAp (foldMap (Ap . f) xs)
19:22:50 <lambdabot> forall k (t :: * -> *) (f :: k -> *) (a1 :: k) a2. (Foldable t, Monoid (Ap f a1)) => (a2 -> f a1) -> t a2 -> f a1
19:23:04 <phadej> silly lambdabot, can you disable PolyKinds
19:23:20 <merijn> % :t \f -> getAp . foldMap (Ap . f)
19:23:20 <yahb> merijn: ; <interactive>:1:2: warning: [-Wname-shadowing] This binding for `f' shadows the existing binding defined at <interactive>:91:1; forall k (t :: * -> *) (f :: k -> *) (a1 :: k) a2. (Foldable t, Monoid (Ap f a1)) => (a2 -> f a1) -> t a2 -> f a1
19:23:25 <merijn> bah
19:23:37 <merijn> % :seti -XNoPolyKinds
19:23:37 <yahb> merijn:
19:23:39 <merijn> % :t \f -> getAp . foldMap (Ap . f)
19:23:40 <yahb> merijn: ; <interactive>:1:2: warning: [-Wname-shadowing] This binding for `f' shadows the existing binding defined at <interactive>:91:1; (Foldable t, Applicative f, Monoid a1) => (a2 -> f a1) -> t a2 -> f a1
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19:41:13 <Guest_85> can't install it on my ubuntu subsystem on my windows 10 machine
19:41:17 <Guest_85> bruh
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19:46:02 <dsal> Oh man. I hope whoever that is manages to get it installed.
19:46:27 <koz_> Whatever 'it' was.
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19:47:19 <monochrom> People who only understand the simpleton boolean "it works / it doesn't work" shouldn't be in programming in the first place.
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19:57:53 <dminuoso> monochrom: That sounds rather simpletony boolean.
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19:58:14 <monochrom> haha
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20:15:17 <tomsmeding> I have a function that, when I run it and measure its execution time using Criterion.Measurement.measure, alternatingly takes ~0.53 and ~0.62 seconds
20:15:31 <tomsmeding> seeing those timings made me do a double take
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20:16:18 <tomsmeding> fortunately I know the cause, and the cause is unsurprisingly GC; passing +RTS -c reduces the difference to ~0.60 vs ~0.61 (though it still oscillates!)
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20:17:53 <koz_> Is there a pre-rolled instance of Arbitrary for Scientific out there?
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20:20:58 hackage dsv 1.0.0.0 - DSV (delimiter-separated values) https://hackage.haskell.org/package/dsv-1.0.0.0 (chris_martin)
20:23:45 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: That difference seems well within margin of errors, induced by things like TLB flushes on preemption, cache evictions from other threads.
20:24:14 <tomsmeding> dminuoso: also if it's fully reproducible on an intel i7 laptop as well as an amd threadripper server?
20:24:25 <dminuoso> The difference between 0.60 and 0.61?
20:24:27 <dminuoso> Id say yes.
20:24:32 <dminuoso> Or is it still alternatingly?
20:24:33 <tomsmeding> oh that one, sure
20:24:37 <tomsmeding> still alternating
20:24:39 <tomsmeding> :p
20:24:43 <tomsmeding> that's what makes it interesting
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20:25:36 <dminuoso> Curious though, in the degenerate case, the GC takes that much time?
20:25:42 <tomsmeding> oh correction: the +RTS -c doesn't help om the AMD, only on the intel
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20:26:44 <tomsmeding> on intel, Criterion.Measurement.measure reports an 'measGcCpuSeconds' of alternatingly about 3.6e-2 and about 7.2e-2
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20:28:07 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: I wonder, could the alternating behavior happen because of some oscillating swapping?
20:28:22 <dminuoso> (swapping in the sense of swap memory)
20:28:42 <dminuoso> I admit, this is rather handwaving
20:28:57 <dminuoso> But this must clearly be something stateful
20:29:07 <dminuoso> Or..
20:29:10 <dminuoso> Hold on. When you say alternatin
20:29:19 <dminuoso> Is that within the same program execution?
20:29:20 <tomsmeding> if you mean swapping as in memory full so swap to disk, no, because memory is far from full
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20:30:31 <tomsmeding> yes one process that runs the same function a number of times, and the even cases (say) are 0.62 +- 0.3 seconds, and the odd cases (say) are 0.53 += 0.3 seconds
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20:46:13 <hololeap> i don't understand constraints that don't take any type variables, like HasCallStack. what are these kinds of constraints acting on?
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20:48:36 <tomsmeding> you can see constraints as kind of "inferred implicit parameters"
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20:48:59 <tomsmeding> where the value being passed as that parameter is a record of the functions defined in the relevant class instance
20:50:03 <tomsmeding> e.g. for a function like nub :: Eq a => [a] -> [a], under the hood it really takes two arguments: a dictionary Eq { (==) :: a -> a -> Bool }, and a list [a]
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20:51:09 <tomsmeding> hololeap: and the inference algorithm for those inferred parameters is the instance resolution algorithm :)
20:51:44 <tomsmeding> from that perspective, it makes sense to also allow classes that take zero parameters; their dictionary types just happen to have no type parameters
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20:52:37 <tomsmeding> now HasCallStack is a magical thing that uses the weird dynamic scoping functionality that GHC offers, so it's really a separate case :p
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20:58:21 <tomsmeding> hololeap: this "dictionary" idea is actually also how type classes are implemented in GHC; see e.g. the original paper (http://ropas.snu.ac.kr/lib/dock/HaHaJoWa1996.pdf (which I haven't actually read, sorry :D)) or other resources online
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21:31:43 nshepperd . o 0 (hmm, what if defining all functions in a module in a zero parameter typeclass to resolve circular dependencies instead of using hs-boot)
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22:09:28 <monochrom> HasCallStack is implemented by being an alias of an implicit parameter constraint.
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22:11:50 <monochrom> Because of ContraintKinds, it can be coded as a type alias, "type HasCallStack = ?callstack :: CallStack" and then you just write "f :: HasCallStack => Int" it simply expands to "f :: (?callStack :: CallStack) => Int"
22:13:57 hackage antiope-sqs 7.5.2 - Please see the README on Github at <https://github.com/arbor/antiope#readme> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/antiope-sqs-7.5.2 (arbornetworks)
22:14:58 hackage antiope-es 7.5.2, antiope-dynamodb 7.5.2, antiope-core 7.5.2, antiope-s3 7.5.2, antiope-shell 7.5.2, antiope-messages 7.5.2, antiope-athena 7.5.2, antiope-sns 7.5.2, antiope-contract 7.5.2, antiope-optparse-applicative 7.5.2 (arbornetworks)
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22:15:41 <hpc> if that was anything but HasCallStack, that trick would make code unreadable with terrifying ease
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