Logs on 2020-10-25 (freenode/#haskell)
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| 00:02:06 | <c_wraith> | I've been told I should return to life for the holiday, but that'd just be too confusing. |
| 00:02:11 | <c_wraith> | :t confusing |
| 00:02:13 | <lambdabot> | Applicative f => LensLike (Data.Functor.Day.Curried.Curried (Data.Functor.Yoneda.Yoneda f) (Data.Functor.Yoneda.Yoneda f)) s t a b -> LensLike f s t a b |
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| 00:09:02 | <monsterchrom> | Another direction you could consider is elevating from a wraith to an abstract factory that makes more wraiths. |
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| 01:13:06 | <c_wraith> | monsterchrom: that's way too terrifying |
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| 03:19:47 | <guy> | hey guys |
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| 03:20:52 | <guy> | is this the place to ask haskell related questions |
| 03:21:25 | <xacktm> | check the /topic |
| 03:21:30 | <xacktm> | tl;dr yes :) |
| 03:22:43 | <guy> | okay thanks :) I don't really know how to check that |
| 03:23:03 | <guy> | I'm having a problem installing a Win32 package with cabal |
| 03:25:10 | <guy> | Apparently it couldn't execute one of the files in the package Win32-2.8.3.0, ".../ghc/inplace/mingw/bin/ld.exe" |
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| 03:26:13 | <guy> | I'm a bit lost on what to do here because this seems to be a problem with the package uploaded |
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| 03:30:55 | <davean> | Thats not in the package, thats in your GHC install I think |
| 03:32:54 | <davean> | ld is the linker |
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| 03:33:37 | <guy> | oh okay thank you |
| 03:34:11 | <guy> | I was trying to install a later version of Win32 than the one that is included with the Haskell Platform |
| 03:34:17 | <davean> | I'd help you more but I haven't seen a windows system in decades |
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| 03:34:39 | <guy> | that's fine, thank you |
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| 03:36:24 | <guy> | I think I'm in a bit over my head with this stuff anyways. I'll just stick to what I have and see what I can do |
| 03:36:41 | <jle`> | i wanted to maybe write a haskell clone for Among Us, but i'm stuck because I can't think of a good pun |
| 03:36:50 | <jle`> | i guess this is most projects die huh |
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| 03:37:05 | <guy> | Lamdang Us |
| 03:37:28 | <guy> | Lambdang us |
| 03:37:29 | <jle`> | hmm |
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| 03:38:14 | <jle`> | :( |
| 03:38:26 | <MarcelineVQ> | Existential Crisis :> but by the time you're done the fad will be over |
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| 03:38:43 | <jle`> | mostly a learning exercise :) |
| 03:38:55 | <jle`> | Forall Us |
| 03:39:01 | <jle`> | :O |
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| 03:41:45 | <koz_> | jle`: Exists a. |
| 03:41:50 | <jle`> | Amonadung Us |
| 03:42:12 | <jle`> | koz_: :o |
| 03:42:24 | <jle`> | Exists a. Imposter a |
| 03:42:38 | <jle`> | exists a. Imposter a => a |
| 03:43:38 | <koz_> | 'Exists a' gets across the point much better at least. |
| 03:43:43 | <c_wraith> | jle`: I already stole a perfect option. |
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| 03:45:45 | <jle`> | c_wraith: oh? |
| 03:45:58 | <jle`> | koz_: nicely succinct |
| 03:45:58 | <c_wraith> | (look at my hostmask) |
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| 03:47:01 | <jle`> | heh heh |
| 03:47:06 | <MarcelineVQ> | neat hostmask but what's a jaldabaoth? |
| 03:47:38 | <koz_> | MarcelineVQ: Some DnD monster I think? |
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| 03:58:08 | <emmanuel_erc> | Is there some truth to the claim that the Haskell compiler is slow? (This was a statement a coworker said to me) |
| 03:59:12 | <monsterchrom> | Depends on how much you're prepared to bend "some" "truth". |
| 03:59:55 | <monsterchrom> | Type inference is worst-case expoential time, there will be a few carefully designed terms and types that force that. |
| 04:00:22 | <monsterchrom> | The fact remains that this worst-case doesn't happen to useful programs. |
| 04:00:57 | <c_wraith> | There are definitely things you can do to make your program slow |
| 04:01:15 | <c_wraith> | GHC isn't great with huge string literals or types with thousands of constructors |
| 04:03:02 | <monsterchrom> | I actually know an actual worst-case example from Okasaki. And yet, I don't just go around citing it as though it's the only thing you should care. In fact, I avoid citing it because clearly it is such a bizarre example you shouldn't care. |
| 04:03:34 | <monsterchrom> | I bet your coworker is the opposite. Never saw any actual example, and still go around spreading hearsay like it's the only important thing. |
| 04:03:40 | <c_wraith> | GHC definitely stresses linx's default linker, too |
| 04:03:58 | <c_wraith> | *linux |
| 04:04:05 | <monsterchrom> | You should put such people on your ignore list. |
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| 04:08:05 | <monsterchrom> | For life is too short to investigate every hearsay where the speaker doesn't bother to cite evidence or give examples. |
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| 04:08:42 | <gattytto> | hello, I'm trying to build the haskell-servant minimum example using ghc-8.10.1 and I have added all the recommended extra-deps to stack.yaml. But while building aeson it says "out of memory". I have tried adding --ghc-options=" -j1 +RST -MXXXXM" with no avail |
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| 04:08:56 | <gattytto> | is there anything else I can do to avoid memory exhaustion? both in cabal build and stack build |
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| 04:09:44 | <monsterchrom> | I'm afraid --ghc-options="-j1" is barking up the wrong tree. |
| 04:10:11 | <monsterchrom> | It would be stack itself and cabal itself that decides to spawn 4 instance of GHC at the same time. |
| 04:10:31 | <monsterchrom> | as opposed to one instance of GHC deciding to spawn 4 jobs |
| 04:10:53 | <monsterchrom> | Your -j1 should be given to stack or cabal |
| 04:10:53 | <gattytto> | ah yes cabal has -j arg |
| 04:11:02 | <gattytto> | thanks I'll try that |
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| 04:36:28 | <MarcelineVQ> | aeson is pretty heavy by itself still so fingers crossed |
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| 05:56:09 | <emb> | Does anyone have any tips on finding remote part time Haskell dev gig? |
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| 08:49:32 | <tomsmeding> | Is there a way to tell ghc, in the context of 'stack build'/'cabal build' to compile a particular module _first_? |
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| 08:49:51 | <tomsmeding> | there are multiple modules still to be compiled, but I want it to give me the errors for a particular module A first |
| 08:50:18 | <tomsmeding> | (assume of course that A has no predecessors in the graph of modules still to be compiled :) ) |
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| 10:35:14 | <maerwald> | I don't know how cabal orders things when multiple modules are on the same depgraph level, but it can either be module name or order in the .cabal file? |
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| 10:38:59 | <tomsmeding> | I don't know either, but I do know it's unstable :) |
| 10:39:14 | <tomsmeding> | as in, I compile and get errors for A, fix some (but not all), recompile, and then it does B first |
| 10:39:22 | <tomsmeding> | which is annoying and my reason for asking :p |
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| 10:42:09 | <tomsmeding> | I have the same problems when e.g. compiling C code with a Makefile, but then I know how to tell it to make one particular object file only |
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| 10:43:04 | <accusa7i0ns> | hello! |
| 10:44:49 | ← | accusa7i0ns parts (~marcog@2001:1c01:3d07:3500:24f0:c846:ec9a:46f0) () |
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| 10:45:07 | <tomsmeding> | bye! |
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| 10:46:01 | <tomsmeding> | welcome back accusa7i0ns :p |
| 10:46:26 | <accusa7i0ns> | thank you tomsmeding! :) |
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| 10:49:06 | <accusa7i0ns> | Hi all :) I am new to this chat and to IRCs in general, is there a regulation that I should read? |
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| 10:50:28 | <maerwald> | https://wiki.haskell.org/IRC_channel#Principles |
| 10:50:31 | <maerwald> | maybe that? |
| 10:50:35 | <maerwald> | not sure how up2date |
| 10:51:57 | <maerwald> | I feel IRC here was more diverse couple of years ago. Maybe slack and discord took away the user base |
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| 10:52:21 | <accusa7i0ns> | thanks maerwald, I'll give it a look! |
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| 11:12:47 | <juri_> | wow. so, i've now written a barely passable slicer in haskell. |
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| 11:33:06 | <merijn> | maerwald, tomsmeding: afaik cabal *doesn't* order modules, it call "ghc" (aka as "ghc --make", historically) which does its own internal dependency scheduling of modules |
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| 11:36:50 | <tomsmeding> | merijn: perhaps the order of the modules Cabal places on ghc's command line matters? (I haven't checked whether this correlates with the behaviour) |
| 11:37:31 | <merijn> | tomsmeding: If you wanna typecheck just single files you quickly get to things like ghcide :p |
| 11:37:43 | <merijn> | and/or hls |
| 11:38:05 | <__monty__> | Or ghcid |
| 11:38:11 | <merijn> | ghcid can't do single files |
| 11:38:23 | <merijn> | It can only recompile the entire project using cabal |
| 11:38:32 | <tomsmeding> | re:ghcide: ... which I have to restart after ~every file I edit because either its file tracking is completely borked, or the interaction between ghcide and languageclient-neovim is crap |
| 11:38:39 | <merijn> | Or rather, the only way you can get it to compile single files is if you already know how to do so |
| 11:38:44 | <tomsmeding> | quite possibly the latter though |
| 11:38:48 | <merijn> | In which case tomsmeding wouldn't be having this issue :p |
| 11:39:07 | <merijn> | tomsmeding: I suspect languageclient-neovim |
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| 11:39:10 | <tomsmeding> | yeah |
| 11:39:18 | <merijn> | It's working pretty great for me with vim + ale |
| 11:39:32 | <tomsmeding> | it did file watching in a completely broken way before, which I fixed with a PR, but there's probably more off |
| 11:39:45 | <merijn> | ale supports neovim, I think? |
| 11:40:01 | <merijn> | Yeah, it does |
| 11:40:50 | <merijn> | I quickly hacked together this a year ago (apparently) https://github.com/merijn/dotfiles/blob/master/dotfiles/vim/autoload/ale_linters/haskell/ghcide.vim |
| 11:40:56 | <merijn> | 0 warranty, though :p |
| 11:41:22 | <merijn> | https://github.com/merijn/dotfiles/blob/master/dotfiles/vim/ftplugin/haskell.vim#L1-L9 |
| 11:42:11 | tomsmeding | looks |
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| 11:45:03 | <tomsmeding> | "0 warranty" <- it looks fairly safe though |
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| 11:48:58 | <merijn> | Should be, but everything I write is "free as in puppies" |
| 11:49:02 | <merijn> | :p |
| 11:49:11 | <tomsmeding> | merijn: I'll try setting up ALE soon, if it works nicely for you then it probably will for me |
| 11:49:18 | <merijn> | (aka "you'll have to pay if you want if fixed" ;)) |
| 11:49:22 | <tomsmeding> | lol sure |
| 11:49:39 | <tomsmeding> | isn't that with ~all open source |
| 11:49:57 | <tomsmeding> | also thanks :) |
| 11:50:19 | <merijn> | For simple stuff ghcide has been working well for ages, for my phd project it's a bit hit and miss, since that's a Haskell tooling stress test of v2-build, CApiFFI, foreign code and TH :p |
| 11:51:05 | <tomsmeding> | I have some TH and foreign code but mostly in modules I'm not touching, so we'll see :) |
| 11:51:12 | tomsmeding | is off to eat some lunch |
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| 14:29:57 | <nschoe> | Hi everyone, just a quick question: I've been cross-compiling aarch64-unknown-linux-gnu-ghc-8.6.5 for the past ... 4-5 hours on my laptop (this is a GHC that I'm compiling for my Raspberry Pi 3). |
| 14:29:57 | <nschoe> | It's not the first time I've done this (because I keep forgetting to add it as gc-root), but I'm curious: how come it doesn't fetch it from a binary cache? |
| 14:30:11 | <nschoe> | Is it because there is not binary cache for aarch64 binaries? |
| 14:30:37 | <nschoe> | Oh sh*t wrong IRC channel, sorry :/ |
| 14:31:17 | <merijn> | nschoe: There's no official aarch64 binary, afaik, that's probably why? |
| 14:31:52 | <uhrenmacher> | ahh, hey ma haskell ppl, nice to c ya'! Ok, I know Python, Java, Javscript, Bash and C, but since I really wanted to learn a proper lang, I would like to learn something like Lisp or Haskell. What are the main differnces between Lisp and Haskell? I run Void Linux atm, so compaitibility in terms of compilers shouldn't be a problem. |
| 14:32:01 | <nschoe> | merijn: I'm running NixOS and I was asking about that :) |
| 14:32:02 | <uhrenmacher> | Like why do you use Haskell and not Lisp? |
| 14:32:07 | <geekosaur> | "binary cache" tells me that was a nix question |
| 14:32:23 | <nschoe> | geekosaur: it was indeed :) |
| 14:32:56 | <nschoe> | geekosaur: I thought I was in the #nixos-aarch64 IRC channel, but it switched back to #haskell for some reason (prob. an unwanted mouse wheel scroll ^^) |
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| 14:40:42 | <Zetagon> | uhrenmacher: Common Lisp and Haskell doesn't have that much in common with each other. Haskell has a nice static type system, is purely functional and uses non-strict evaluation. Common Lisp is homoiconic (code and data is basically the same thing and have the same syntax which means it has a simple syntax and powerful macros. |
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| 14:41:57 | hackage | tasty 1.4 - Modern and extensible testing framework https://hackage.haskell.org/package/tasty-1.4 (RomanCheplyaka) |
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| 14:45:25 | <merijn> | uhrenmacher: eh, I would sooner ask what the similarities between lisp and haskell are, tbh |
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| 14:46:21 | <merijn> | And beyond "you can define functions and variables" I can't think of a whole lotta similarities... |
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| 14:49:13 | <Zetagon> | Except both being programming languages |
| 14:50:08 | <Zetagon> | dammit I forgot to close my parenthesis ) |
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| 14:55:06 | <asheshambasta> | for cabal errors like these https://gist.github.com/asheshambasta/657363a06647b4e56170be2824c05360, what's the best way to go about debugging them? From what I can see, cabal says that packages servant-reflex & bulmex disagree on the reflex version to use. However, I've gone through the source of servant-reflex (its being depended on locally) and removed all bounds on the reflex versions I could find. |
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| 14:55:36 | moy | is now known as Guest63439 |
| 14:55:37 | <Guest63439> | hey, im struggling with a really simple task... i would like to print a map in console for debugging purpose |
| 14:56:12 | <Guest63439> | im trying to use trace from Debug.trace but it prints nothing for now |
| 14:56:27 | <voso534> | and what is the problem? If keys and values have Show instances, just print it. Also you can you some pretty-print library |
| 14:57:05 | <Guest63439> | im trying to figure how to actually print |
| 14:57:16 | <voso534> | maybe your mp is empty? Is it possible? Try to convert it to a list and print it with the trace |
| 14:57:37 | <Guest63439> | i dont even print the string that i pass as first argument |
| 14:57:52 | <voso534> | maybe the value is not evaluating at all |
| 14:58:11 | <Guest63439> | https://pastebin.com/f03b2g3s i would like to print newState |
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| 14:58:42 | <Guest63439> | by for example adding : trace "hello" newState after the let declarations |
| 14:58:55 | <fendor_> | asheshambasta, this looks weird to me: `reflex==0.7.1.0/installed-1Wm` are you using ghcjs? |
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| 14:59:17 | <asheshambasta> | fendor_: yes, I'm using reflex-platform to fire up nix-shells with the dependencies. |
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| 14:59:40 | <voso534> | Guest63439 I usually add print on the first line, if it works, then in the next line and so on and... then I find where no more printing :) |
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| 15:00:14 | <fendor> | asheshambasta, then I guess that servant-reflex depends on a pre-installed version of reflex... similar to how ghc only works with a pre-installed version of base. Would be my uneducated guess here |
| 15:00:26 | <asheshambasta> | And in this case, servant-reflex is an overriden package, which I'm including via callCabal2nix on some path. When I drop to this path and fire up a nix-shell with a cabal repl, I can confirm that the package compiles at the same reflex-platform verison. |
| 15:00:33 | <voso534> | Guest63439 `If the MVar is currently empty, takeMVar will wait until it is full. ` - maybe takeMVar is waiting? |
| 15:00:48 | <asheshambasta> | fendor: pre-installed? |
| 15:01:15 | <Guest63439> | voso534 i dont think so since the function keep being called recursively |
| 15:01:24 | <Guest63439> | i was wondering if syntaxically, the way is use trace is correct |
| 15:01:34 | <Guest63439> | i* |
| 15:01:39 | <voso534> | Guest63439 even hGetLine may wait.... Try to add print as the first line of your function |
| 15:01:44 | <merijn> | Guest63439: What are you calling it with, though? |
| 15:02:00 | <merijn> | Guest63439: Because if the first call to "talk" gets an empty MVar it will block and stay empty forever |
| 15:02:42 | <fendor> | asheshambasta, like, for a single ghc version, you can't switch the version of base that it uses, right? You will get a similar error message with cabal. Maybe it is the same for ghcjs, you can't change the reflex version for your ghcjs, but some dependency needs another reflex version. |
| 15:03:17 | <fendor> | in that sense, every ghc version comes with a base version pre-installed in its packagedb that can not be changed. |
| 15:03:33 | <voso534> | Guest63439 I mean something like |
| 15:03:36 | <voso534> | ``` |
| 15:03:52 | <Guest63439> | yep if i add a print at the top of the function i can see it every time i should |
| 15:03:58 | <voso534> | heck... how to write multiline here? ) |
| 15:04:00 | <Guest63439> | the MVar should never be empty |
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| 15:04:40 | <asheshambasta> | fendor: correct, although I'd expect there to be a way to verify that? There's nothing in the servant-reflex.cabal file that I consider suspect. |
| 15:04:45 | <merijn> | Guest63439: You're not calling talk (well, except recursively) in that code |
| 15:04:48 | <voso534> | OK, what happens with the print after hGetLine? Is it shown? |
| 15:05:03 | <Guest63439> | i didnt past the whole script |
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| 15:05:05 | <merijn> | Guest63439: Without seeing how you initially call "talk" it's impossible to say |
| 15:05:38 | <Guest63439> | how woud you trace the let called "newState" in this function ? |
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| 15:06:03 | <asheshambasta> | fendor: not to forget, going to the locally checked out servant-reflex dir., I'm able to update its reflex-platform branch/rev to the same as my project (that depends on servant-reflex), and I can successfully run `nix-shell --run 'cabal new-repl'`; which, I assume, would use the same GHC/GHCJS version? |
| 15:06:06 | <merijn> | @quote refreshing.desert |
| 15:06:06 | <lambdabot> | chromatic says: My productivity increased when Autrijus told me about Haskell's trace function. He called it a refreshing desert in the oasis of referential transparency. |
| 15:06:10 | <merijn> | Guest63439: ^^ |
| 15:06:30 | <merijn> | See the Debug.Trace module |
| 15:06:45 | <voso534> | you can wrap newState everywhere where do you like - right hand of let for example. If it's evaluating then it will be shown on the console |
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| 15:07:04 | <fendor> | asheshambasta, hm, if my theory holds, then it is only coincidentally a dependency problem with servant-reflex. You can try to remove that dependency and see if it finds a build-plan. |
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| 15:07:34 | <asheshambasta> | If I remove servant-reflex as a dependency, things build. |
| 15:07:46 | <voso534> | but I think if you will add all those `print`s (after each line), then you will see that the code is blocked somewhere - it's my hypotheses |
| 15:08:07 | <asheshambasta> | I didn't even know what cabal meant with .../installed-... |
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| 15:08:50 | <fendor> | oh well, if that works, I don't know then :( |
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| 15:09:32 | <Guest63439> | voso534 i tried and i can see that the code is executing from the start to the end, i think i dont understand how trace is supposed to be used inside a "do" statement |
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| 15:10:19 | <asheshambasta> | to me it seems like bulmex and servant-reflex cannot agree on the reflex version; and the message with .../installed is a complete mystery to me; and I find no signs of version bounds on reflex in either bulmex nor in servant-reflex. |
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| 15:10:41 | <asheshambasta> | (both are overriden packages in my reflex `project`) |
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| 15:13:19 | <fendor> | asheshambasta, what reflex version does your project have when you do not depend on servant-reflex? |
| 15:13:45 | <voso534> | Guest63439 hm... another idea is to declare strict variable with `let`, something like `let !newState = traceShow result (fst result)` |
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| 15:15:03 | <asheshambasta> | fendor: I believe that's decided by the pinned reflex-platform version no? If so, I'm using https://gist.github.com/asheshambasta/423fd27b04c37e2a8f14bf84068f139a#file-sources-json-L50-L61 |
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| 15:15:32 | <fendor> | I have no idea about the reflex-platform, unfortunately |
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| 15:15:47 | <Guest63439> | voso534 here : https://pastebin.com/he2cch9e still printing nothing :/ |
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| 15:16:40 | <asheshambasta> | fendor: AFAICS, it is a curated set of packages within nix (further curation, yay!)) |
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| 15:18:27 | <voso534> | Guest63439 1) do you see "test2" in the console? 2) more correct is IMHO to use trace/traceShow with the value which is used actually, `x` is not used, so maybe it's not evaluated at all. Better use trace/traceShow directly in the declaration of the newState |
| 15:19:28 | <Guest63439> | voso534 do see test2, i will try to use it in newState declaration |
| 15:21:11 | <asheshambasta> | fendor: anyway, thanks for helping. I think I understand cabal less and less as time goes on. :-) |
| 15:21:41 | <fendor> | not sure this is cabal's fault, though :/ |
| 15:21:56 | <fendor> | the concept of pre-installed libraries is a bit hard to grasp, imo |
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| 15:23:39 | <asheshambasta> | yeah agreed, I think nix also makes this harder to understand. |
| 15:25:41 | <Guest63439> | ok i got something, thanks voso534... i guess newState is never executed, by calling trace inside the answer declaration it works |
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| 15:28:24 | <voso534> | Guest63439 (y) if something is not used in Haskell, it's not evaluated ("executed") |
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| 16:02:08 | <emmanuel_erc> | monsterchrom: Unfortunately, I couldn't put this coworker on the ignore list before. But I probably won't be working with them for much longer (and they're a PM to boot) |
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| 16:06:35 | <asheshambasta> | fendor: I think what would also help a lot is if cabal could specify where-from/why it required these bounds. |
| 16:07:25 | <fendor> | asheshambasta, totally agree, but explaining a build-plan is a ton of work. It already tries, but its output is mainly readable by experts |
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| 16:19:30 | <asheshambasta> | fendor: yeah, I think I'd just be happy with some indication of the cabal file it read those bounds from. It seems to say that bulmex needs a range of reflex versions, but I find no mention of these bounds in the locally checked out bulmex directoryl. |
| 16:20:09 | <asheshambasta> | I suspect these reflex version bounds come from a rejected version of bulmex, it does say that it rejects a set of bulmex versions. |
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| 16:34:38 | <asheshambasta> | fendor: there's this discussion too: https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/9rmh9s/how_to_read_cabal_solver_failure_output/ |
| 16:35:25 | <fendor> | yeah, I guess one issue is that dependency solving is NP hard and the certificate for a negative instance can explode so incredibly... |
| 16:35:50 | <cebola> | is there a ghc extension that allows turning an arbitrary expression into an infix op: [1] `(liftA2 (:))` [[]] |
| 16:36:46 | <monsterchrom> | No. |
| 16:38:02 | <asheshambasta> | fendor: but I still think that this error message is misleading. Given that I'm 100% sure that there's no mention of version bounds on reflex inside of servant-reflex (I've even grepped the entire tree), cabal should be telling me why it wants reflex == 0.7.1.0 for servant-reflex. |
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| 16:40:28 | <asheshambasta> | I even verified that I'm not being an idiot and importing the source from a directory on my local machine with `callCabal2nix`. There's also no `package.yaml` etc in the servant-reflex tree (callCabal2nix secretly using hpack when it sees a package.yaml has also been a huge source of grief for me) |
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| 16:41:20 | <asheshambasta> | (in all honesty, callCabal2nix when using hpack does output some hpack output, but that quickly gets lost since nix outputs are quite verbose.) |
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| 17:27:27 | hackage | j 0.1.2.0 - J in Haskell https://hackage.haskell.org/package/j-0.1.2.0 (vmchale) |
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| 17:56:57 | hackage | cut-the-crap 2.1.2 - Cuts out uninteresting parts of videos by detecting silences. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/cut-the-crap-2.1.2 (Jappie) |
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| 18:56:45 | <ddellacosta> | anyone know how I can pass an argument to floskell as my formatter when using lsp in emacs? |
| 18:59:43 | <fendor> | ddellacosta, configuration file in the top-level of your project? |
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| 19:01:06 | <ddellacosta> | fendor: I'm looking for something a bit more specific, like which file and what directives I need to use and etc. I've figured out that I can set the formatter in my emacs config, so wondering if there's a similar directive to set the formatter args, but not seeing one in the various emacs lsp packages |
| 19:01:49 | <ddellacosta> | figured there may be someone else in #haskell who has a similar setup but understand this may be niche |
| 19:01:57 | hackage | junit-xml 0.1.0.2 - Producing JUnit-style XML test reports. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/junit-xml-0.1.0.2 (JasperWoudenberg) |
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| 19:05:57 | hackage | tasty-test-reporter 0.1.1.3 - Producing JUnit-style XML test reports. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/tasty-test-reporter-0.1.1.3 (JasperWoudenberg) |
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| 19:18:28 | hackage | nri-env-parser 0.1.0.2 - Read environment variables as settings to build 12-factor apps. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/nri-env-parser-0.1.0.2 (JasperWoudenberg) |
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| 19:56:58 | hackage | tasty-test-reporter 0.1.1.4 - Producing JUnit-style XML test reports. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/tasty-test-reporter-0.1.1.4 (JasperWoudenberg) |
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| 20:10:54 | <ixlun> | Is it possible to pattern match on a partially applied Value constructor? |
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| 20:19:53 | <opqdonut> | ixlun: no |
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| 20:20:38 | <geekosaur> | that sounds confused. a partially applied constructor is a function, not a value, so no pattern matching |
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| 20:20:55 | <ixlun> | I thought as much |
| 20:21:08 | <ixlun> | It probably smacks of bad design if I'm running into that problem |
| 20:21:14 | <geekosaur> | you do not have a thing of type Value to pattern match on, you have a (something -> Value) |
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| 20:34:28 | hackage | telegram-bot-simple 0.3.2 - Easy to use library for building Telegram bots. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/telegram-bot-simple-0.3.2 (swamp_agr) |
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| 20:36:20 | <ixlun> | Can anyone think of a nicer way to write this function? https://termbin.com/i0im |
| 20:36:33 | <ixlun> | It feels like there should be a nicer way than what I'm doing. |
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| 20:48:31 | <koz_> | If I want to catch two different types of exceptions, how would I spell that normally? |
| 20:48:38 | <koz_> | Do I have to do nested catches or something? |
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| 20:53:47 | <monsterchrom> | koz_: Control.Exception.catches is preferred. It also explains why nesting has an issue. |
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| 20:55:27 | <koz_> | monsterchrom: Thanks, that's actually very helpful! |
| 20:55:40 | <koz_> | ... also, I _just_ realized who you (likely) are and I feel super daft. |
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| 20:56:27 | <Rembane> | monsterchrom: Are you having a Halloween nick? |
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| 21:02:28 | <monsterchrom> | I was inspired by ghoulguy. Also watch out for dimwitch. |
| 21:02:48 | <monsterchrom> | ghoulguy in turn was inspired by people in #freenode or something. |
| 21:02:58 | jtmar | is now known as jamestmartin |
| 21:03:19 | <MarcelineVQ> | he said deadk did it to him |
| 21:03:35 | <monsterchrom> | Yes this name game is stress-testing your unification algorithms! >:) |
| 21:04:39 | <MarcelineVQ> | I should think up a christmas name instead I guess |
| 21:05:20 | <MarcelineVQ> | MerrycelineCM is just nonsense tho |
| 21:05:32 | <jbox> | I'm having trouble getting a dev environment set up. Vim (coc.nvim) keeps yelling at me that it can't find `import XMonad`, but I can reload xmonad just fine and it doesn't complain |
| 21:06:53 | <jbox> | I should be using ghcup instead of my distribution package manager, right? |
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| 21:07:54 | <koz_> | monsterchrom: Less unification, more fuzzy matching. |
| 21:07:58 | hackage | reform-happstack 0.2.5.4 - Happstack support for reform. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/reform-happstack-0.2.5.4 (JeremyShaw) |
| 21:08:14 | <koz_> | jbox: For _development_, 100% use ghcup, |
| 21:09:40 | <Rembane> | monsterchrom: Good stuff! :D |
| 21:13:14 | <Uniaika> | fantastic nick change, ghoulguy and monsterchrom |
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| 21:17:45 | <jbox> | vim (coc.vim) complains that: [coc.nvim] No [cradle](https://github.com/mpickering/hie-bios#hie-bios) found for .xmonad/xmonad.hs. Proceeding with [implicit cradle](https://hackage.haskell.org/package/implicit-hie) |
| 21:17:54 | <jbox> | What should I do about this? I have cradle installed |
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| 21:18:13 | <jbox> | wait, no I don't |
| 21:18:21 | <jbox> | I can't execute `cradle`, but ghcup says it's installed |
| 21:18:42 | <maerwald> | cradle? |
| 21:19:28 | <koz_> | ghcup doesn't install anything other than GHC, hie and cabal I don't think. |
| 21:19:46 | <monsterchrom> | Not hie, rather hls. |
| 21:19:52 | <maerwald> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/implicit-hie |
| 21:19:56 | <monsterchrom> | Definitely doesn't know wth is "cradle". |
| 21:20:01 | <maerwald> | install that and run `gen-hie` |
| 21:20:07 | <maerwald> | that's probably what they meant |
| 21:20:20 | <koz_> | I should just start calling it 'that thing that does IDE stuff Koz doesn't care about starting with h'. |
| 21:20:30 | <monsterchrom> | :) |
| 21:20:33 | <Uniaika> | koz_: himplicit-hie? :D |
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| 21:20:42 | <koz_> | (possibly with the appendage 'because it never works for him') |
| 21:20:43 | <monsterchrom> | You can always use "ghcup list" to see what ghcup knows. |
| 21:20:46 | <koz_> | Uniaika: Maybe that. |
| 21:21:01 | <jbox> | sorry, I meant cabal instead of cradle |
| 21:21:02 | <maerwald> | I also decided to use stack for hls, so that it doesn't interfere with the running cabal (hls invalidates cabal cache or something) |
| 21:21:03 | <jbox> | I can't execuet cabal |
| 21:21:25 | <monsterchrom> | OK, read up on "the PATH environment variable" |
| 21:22:15 | <jbox> | sorry, noob mistake LMAO |
| 21:22:37 | <jbox> | I'm so used to installing stuff with my distribution package managers hehe |
| 21:22:40 | <monsterchrom> | Everyone was a noob once. Not an excuse. |
| 21:22:59 | <maerwald> | jbox: source ~/.ghcup/env |
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| 21:26:46 | <jbox> | maerwald: thank you! I would have just added stuff to $path in my .zshrc manually if you hadn't pointed that out :) |
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| 21:29:35 | <jbox> | vim (coc.nvim) still yells at me though. First it tells me that: No [cradle](https://github.com/mpickering/hie-bios#hie-bios) found for .xmonad/xmonad.hs. Proceeding with [implicit cradle](https://hackage.haskell.org/package/implicit-hie). Then it tells me that it can't find the 'XMonad' (and more) module, yet it exists, since xmonad runs fine and doesn't complain when I reload |
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| 21:31:57 | <maerwald> | there's a #haskell-ide-engine channel btw |
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| 21:32:19 | <jbox> | oh, thank you. This would probably be better there. Have a good one :) |
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| 21:59:22 | <ddellacosta> | are there any standard ways of using persistent-generated records with lens, or rather, generating lenses? |
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| 22:02:15 | <koz_> | ddellacosta: What's persistent-generated? |
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| 22:02:40 | <Uniaika> | koz_: generated by the 'persistent' library I'd say? |
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| 22:02:57 | <ddellacosta> | oh yeah, I mean the stuff that the quasi-quoter boilerplate spits out |
| 22:03:00 | <koz_> | Uniaika: Ah, well, I assumed the all-lower-case-and-hyphen referred to a package. |
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| 22:03:15 | <ddellacosta> | yeah I can understand, sorry for the confusing way I wrote that |
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| 22:04:08 | <koz_> | If you want 'generated lenses' in general, you might look at generic-lens. |
| 22:04:16 | <koz_> | However I cannot in good conscience recommend the use of that package. |
| 22:04:32 | <koz_> | (but then again, you're already using persistent so what's one more...) |
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| 22:05:18 | <koz_> | s/might look/might wanna look/ |
| 22:05:27 | <ddellacosta> | koz_: why would you not recommend generic-lens? (I actually just ended up there myself) |
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| 22:05:38 | <koz_> | ddellacosta: Because it's type errors are unreadable gore. |
| 22:05:43 | <koz_> | s/it's/its/ |
| 22:05:44 | <ddellacosta> | ah, fair enough |
| 22:05:49 | <ddellacosta> | I can imagine actually |
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| 22:06:08 | <koz_> | And the entire premise of the library is _extremely_ flawed IMHO, since once you derive Generic for something, you can wave goodbye to _any_ internal invariants. |
| 22:06:38 | <koz_> | And honestly, most of the 'automagic via Generic' designs are at best confusing. |
| 22:06:41 | <ddellacosta> | koz_: what do you mean by "internal invariants?" Or I guess "internal" in particular |
| 22:06:54 | <koz_> | (and quite questionable anyway, since there isn't typically a One True Way to be a type class instance) |
| 22:07:14 | <koz_> | ddellacosta: Consider something like 'I have an Int in this data structure and it's always positive'. |
| 22:07:37 | <koz_> | You can do that with smart constructors easily, but once you have a Generic instance, it's basically broken (or breakable) and there's nothing you can do about it. |
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| 22:07:50 | <koz_> | For a less trivial example, consider the internal representation of Data.Map. |
| 22:08:08 | <koz_> | It's a self-balancing binary tree, but the type system can't guarantee that its invariants hold. |
| 22:08:23 | <koz_> | Derive Generic for something like that, and those invariants are now breakable by _anyone_. |
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| 22:08:55 | <koz_> | Because when you derive Generic, you gain the ability to both _read_ the generic structure, but also create new ones and magic it into the type, provided it type checks. |
| 22:09:05 | <koz_> | And you can't opt out of the latter in _any way whatsoever_. |
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| 22:10:20 | <ddellacosta> | koz_: okay, I think I'm starting to understand what you mean, but in the end isn't it a reasonable tradeoff to make if you're using it in an application context? Presumably you're able to understand if it would break any invariants you wish to avoid breaking |
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| 22:10:43 | <koz_> | Uhh, I don't get how that even makes sense. |
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| 22:11:02 | <ddellacosta> | well, maybe I don't understand your point yet then |
| 22:11:16 | <koz_> | You have a self-balancing binary tree. Its invariants can only be preserved by hiding its representation and not allowing people to construct one arbitrarily. Generic _exposes_ that representation and allows _anyone_ to construct one arbitrarily. |
| 22:11:21 | <koz_> | And there is _nothing_ you can do about it. |
| 22:11:56 | <koz_> | Once you derive Generic, any invariant over your data structure that is _not_ imposed by the type system is gone, and _anyone_ can violate said invariants. |
| 22:12:08 | <koz_> | It doesn't matter if it's 'an application context' or not. |
| 22:12:29 | <koz_> | If I can import your type, I can get its Generic instance and your invariants are screwed if I want them to be, end of story. |
| 22:13:17 | <koz_> | Not 'if I can import your type's data constructors'. Not 'if I can import your type's smart constructors'. If I can import your type _as such_. |
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| 22:13:58 | <jbox> | is stack or cabal the recommended tool? |
| 22:14:10 | <koz_> | jbox: Do you _want_ to start a religious argument LOL? |
| 22:14:17 | <koz_> | More seriously, it depends on who you ask. |
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| 22:14:24 | <jbox> | oh, sorry, I didn't know that was a sensitive topic haha |
| 22:14:26 | <koz_> | I certainly have an opinion, everyone else does too. |
| 22:14:30 | <jbox> | Is it like npm vs yarn? |
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| 22:14:40 | <koz_> | jbox: I wouldn't know because I'm wilfully ignorant of anything JS. |
| 22:14:47 | <jbox> | me too tbh haha |
| 22:14:50 | <ddellacosta> | koz_: I suppose what I meant was, one could decide not to derive generic on a Map, for example |
| 22:14:58 | <koz_> | ddellacosta: OK, sure, I agree. |
| 22:15:10 | <koz_> | But if you want to use generic-lens for your type, you have to derive Generic. |
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| 22:15:23 | <ddellacosta> | I guess I'm not sure if you're suggesting that Generics are generally bad, or just in certain contexts? |
| 22:15:23 | <koz_> | Ditto for automagic Hashable, ditto automagic FromJSON/ToJSON, etc etc etc. |
| 22:15:53 | <koz_> | I'm suggesting that once you derive Generic you can't have any invariants on that type that the type system itself does not enforce. |
| 22:16:10 | <koz_> | Therefore, for any such type, anythign autoderivable via Generic basically becomes 'you give up your internal invariants lol'. |
| 22:16:24 | <ddellacosta> | koz_: okay, I guess I have to think harder about the implications of that. I'm mostly considering my experience of using generics in various contexts and finding it pretty nice |
| 22:16:41 | <koz_> | ddellacosta: YMMV. If the type already exposes its data constructors it makes no difference. |
| 22:16:49 | <koz_> | If it _doesn't_, then it could be an issue. |
| 22:17:29 | <ddellacosta> | in any case, I think I'm bailing on generic-lens for now lol |
| 22:17:49 | <koz_> | The issues behind generic-lens are mostly 'its type errors are an ungodly slurry'. |
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| 22:18:16 | <jbox> | I was told that vim (coc.nvim) wasn't detecting the XMonad library because it wasn't in my global environment. Should I have installed xmonad with ghcup or something? I installed it with pacman (the arch linux package manager) |
| 22:18:21 | <koz_> | Speaking from having to understand them on numerous occasions, for a codebase I didn't write, when it was causing issues due to a _minor_ version lift of generic-lens. |
| 22:18:25 | <ddellacosta> | yeah I can't really justify adding it to this project at this point, I'm just being lazy because I know I can do what I want trivially with a traversal |
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| 22:20:10 | <koz_> | (I ended up just pinning to the lower version because otherwise it was impossible) |
| 22:20:22 | <gattytto> | good evening :waves: |
| 22:20:30 | <koz_> | gattytto: Sup? |
| 22:20:34 | <ddellacosta> | seems reasonable |
| 22:21:50 | <gattytto> | I came yesterday with questions about limiting memory to haskell builds. It seems like the following: cabal build -j1 --ghc-options=" +RTS -M3000M -RTS" ... works but the same using stack doesn't and triggers a "out of memory" error |
| 22:21:54 | <gattytto> | is this expectable? |
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| 22:22:37 | <gattytto> | this is the project I'm testing with: github/gattytto/example-servant-minimal |
| 22:23:13 | <gattytto> | my usecase is a web ide with a pre-packed dockerfile (based in official haskell's) that contains ghc 8.10.1 so I forked and touched the stack.yaml to add the extra-deps to it |
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| 22:23:26 | <gattytto> | which are a lot and specifically aeson produces the out of memory |
| 22:23:47 | <koz_> | aeson would, honestly. |
| 22:24:21 | <koz_> | gattytto: You might be able to avoid most of the extra-deps if you use a nightly. |
| 22:24:28 | <koz_> | I assume you're on an LTS snapshot? |
| 22:24:56 | <gattytto> | I'm using ghc-8.10.1 as resolver and system-ghc is the same, using 8.10.1-buster as the base image for my env |
| 22:25:13 | <koz_> | gattytto: ghc-8.10.1 is not a 'resolver' in the stack sense. |
| 22:25:20 | <koz_> | What's the 'resolver' field in your stack.yaml say? |
| 22:25:31 | <gattytto> | resolver: ghc-8.10.1 |
| 22:25:39 | <koz_> | ... huh |
| 22:25:45 | <koz_> | That's a thing? |
| 22:25:58 | <gattytto> | yes it prevents it from re-downloading some other version of ghc to build |
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| 22:26:06 | <gattytto> | and uses system's one instead |
| 22:26:23 | <koz_> | OK, well, then you might wanna wait for a stack expert. |
| 22:26:32 | <gattytto> | first time I try to build the forked project (probably made with 8.6.x) it starts recommending extra-deps |
| 22:26:51 | <gattytto> | so I add them all to extra-deps in stack.yaml, which ends up being around 98 of them xD |
| 22:27:15 | <koz_> | Ah, so it's just 'FPComplete never update any of their templates', lol. |
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| 22:27:46 | <gattytto> | after a while using the mentioned cabal build line, I get: "Linking /projects/src/github.com/gattytto/example-servant-minimal/dist-newstyle/build/x86_64-linux/ghc-8.10.1/example-servant-minimal-0.0.0/x/example-servant-minimal/build/example-servant-minimal/example-servant-minimal ..." |
| 22:27:57 | <gattytto> | I'm guessing cabal made it |
| 22:28:34 | <gattytto> | but issuing: stack build -j1 --ghc-options=" +RTS -M3000M -RTS" ... triggers the oom |
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| 22:29:13 | <gattytto> | so my question is if either stack isn't passing the ghc options or ghc is doing stuff differently when called from cabal than when called from stack |
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| 22:42:28 | hackage | persistent-test 2.0.3.3 - Tests for Persistent https://hackage.haskell.org/package/persistent-test-2.0.3.3 (MaxGabriel) |
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| 22:53:17 | <_deepfire> | What's the catch about mixing unlifted types with regular types -- like f.e. using unboxed tuples as values in Data.Map.Map's? |
| 22:53:43 | <_deepfire> | Is it even possible? |
| 22:53:52 | <monsterchrom> | \∩/ Larry Paulson's book "ML for the working programmer" contains this sentence "This sort of things is easier in Haskell" |
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| 22:55:00 | <dolio> | Hahaha. |
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| 22:55:29 | <dolio> | _deepfire: No, it's not possible. |
| 22:56:06 | <dolio> | Unboxed tuples aren't just unlifted, they don't have a uniform calling convention, so it doesn't really make any sense. |
| 22:56:19 | <monsterchrom> | It is in a section that uses "L a = a x (unit -> L)" to implement lazy lists. |
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| 22:57:16 | <motte> | hi, could anyone explain how to exception handling with the req http library? |
| 22:57:27 | <motte> | to do* |
| 22:57:51 | <dolio> | Are they actually lazy, though? |
| 22:57:56 | <_deepfire> | dolio: I see, thank you! |
| 22:58:03 | <koz_> | motte: I guess you want this? http://hackage.haskell.org/package/req-3.7.0/docs/Network-HTTP-Req.html#v:handleHttpException |
| 22:58:12 | <motte> | the documentation suggests to create my own monad and then define the handleHttpException method, but i'm not sure what that really means |
| 22:58:23 | <dolio> | Or just call-by-name? |
| 22:58:23 | <motte> | koz_: yes! |
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| 22:58:56 | <koz_> | motte: If you don't need anything 'extra', you can just work in 'Req'. |
| 22:59:10 | <koz_> | If you don't understand what 'anything extra' means, basically use 'Req'. |
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| 22:59:28 | <koz_> | So everywhere you see 'MonadHttp m', mentally sub 'm' for 'Req' in the signatures. |
| 23:00:22 | <motte> | oh.. so can i "override" the handleHttpException somehow? |
| 23:00:50 | <koz_> | motte: I guess the term 'monad transformer' is new to you? |
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| 23:01:03 | <motte> | it indeed is |
| 23:01:13 | <koz_> | Then basically don't worry about it. |
| 23:01:16 | <koz_> | Just work in Req. |
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| 23:02:19 | <crestfallen> | hi I'm having trouble in ghci. I upgraded cabal to 3.2.0.0 and ghci is at 8.4.4. when I attempt to move the cursor from right to left to edit, the cursor jumps up into the scrollback, for lack of a better explanation. this is a debian 10 machine. anyone have that issue? |
| 23:02:30 | <motte> | i basically want to return an Either String String from a function that does a GET request, where Left would contain a status code |
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| 23:03:00 | <koz_> | motte: So what's the closest thing you found to what you think you need? |
| 23:03:10 | <motte> | using catch |
| 23:03:12 | <koz_> | I guess there's some 'make a GET request' function? |
| 23:03:41 | <motte> | yes, i can make the get request, the only problem is the error handling |
| 23:03:50 | <koz_> | motte: OK, so you need to basically do this. |
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| 23:05:56 | <koz_> | catch thingThatMakesYourRequest handler |
| 23:06:07 | <crestfallen> | yeah also I'm having the exact problem on another debian 10 machine at work. |
| 23:06:15 | <koz_> | Where handler will be typed as 'HttpException -> Req a'. |
| 23:06:25 | <koz_> | Then you can take the exception apart and figure out what went wrong. |
| 23:06:29 | <koz_> | And then proceed accordingly. |
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| 23:07:09 | <motte> | koz_: right. but the nicer way would be using a monad transformer? |
| 23:07:16 | <koz_> | motte: Orthogonal. |
| 23:07:19 | <gattytto> | I think I found why my build is failing, seems like "stack" doesn't have a "--ghc-options" arg |
| 23:07:23 | <koz_> | Literally don't even concern yourself with this./ |
| 23:07:39 | <crestfallen> | almost unusable... any ideas? |
| 23:07:54 | <motte> | koz_: alright, thanks a lot! |
| 23:08:38 | <gattytto> | crestfallen: what IDE are you using? |
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| 23:09:51 | <crestfallen> | gattytto, it's just the ghci that comes with cabal, in terminal. I use vim but its unrelated |
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| 23:11:34 | <crestfallen> | the cursor jumps up and travel to the left above the prompt line. |
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| 23:11:40 | <crestfallen> | travels* |
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| 23:13:57 | hackage | clckwrks 0.26.2.3 - A secure, reliable content management system (CMS) and blogging platform https://hackage.haskell.org/package/clckwrks-0.26.2.3 (JeremyShaw) |
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| 23:21:36 | <crestfallen> | anyone have this issue? ^ frustrated.. |
| 23:21:57 | <gattytto> | from what terminal are you running ghci ? |
| 23:22:04 | <gattytto> | bash/zsh? |
| 23:23:03 | <crestfallen> | bash on xTerm |
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| 23:25:31 | <gattytto> | can you try without the desktop? like, CTRL+ALT+F1 and go to ghci from that shell? |
| 23:25:57 | <crestfallen> | gattytto, thanks, yeah I can barely use it. It loads programs fine, but you cannot travel right to left, or delete |
| 23:26:05 | <crestfallen> | ok one moment thanks |
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| 23:28:06 | <gattytto> | ouch |
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| 23:31:20 | <monsterchrom> | dolio: Right, it is not the Haskell sense of lazy. It has the aspect of on-demand, but it also gets re-computed every time. |
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| 23:33:08 | <dolio> | Right, because it's even worse to do proper laziness. :) |
| 23:33:11 | <gattytto> | crestfallen: sorry I forgot to tell you, ctrl+alt+f7 will get you back to your window manager |
| 23:33:33 | <dolio> | Or, even harder, rather. |
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| 23:38:07 | <crestfallen> | gattytto, thanks, I'm in another desktop, default x10 or something? it's not gnome, my normal desktop. but the problem remains. ctrl alt f1 didn't give me a skeletal terminal or anything. |
| 23:38:24 | <gattytto> | try the other f's before 7 |
| 23:38:28 | <gattytto> | like 2, 3 and 4 |
| 23:39:01 | <crestfallen> | thanks let me start a macbook for the chat |
| 23:39:33 | <jbox> | I've been trying to get my dev environment to work (get hie to recognize that xmonad is, in fact, installed), and somehow I borked everything |
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| 23:39:40 | <jbox> | stack won't even run now |
| 23:39:43 | <jbox> | stack: error while loading shared libraries: libHShpc-0.6.1.0-ghc8.10.2.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory |
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| 23:52:14 | <dolio> | monsterchrom: That's kind of the irony behind rants about Haskell having the 'wrong' data types relative to ML. They both have all the same data types, but you have to do a lot of work to actually do laziness in ML, while to get the ML sort of type in Haskell you just need to put ! on things. |
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| 23:56:09 | <monsterchrom> | Yeah |
| 23:57:07 | <gattytto> | how can I put "+RTS -M3000M" in stack.yaml ghc-options: ? it seems to split them separately |
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| 23:59:39 | <crestfal1en> | gattytto: hi I'm in x11 and the problem is not occuring. it's like a minimal terminal not sure! |
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