Logs on 2020-10-30 (freenode/#haskell)
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| 00:21:59 | <ghoulguy> | maerwald: Is ghcup 0.1.12 waiting on more testing? |
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| 00:54:52 | <hyiltiz> | no reason we cannot implement the graphics grammer in a haskell DSL tho |
| 00:55:20 | <hyiltiz> | haskell is much better suited for the task than R; in fact, ggplot only overloads (+) |
| 00:55:44 | <hyiltiz> | and what ggplot calls + is kinda like the monad bind |
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| 00:56:48 | <hyiltiz> | hadley whichman probably is also well aware of the monadic nature of his DSL; he focuses more heavily on functional these days |
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| 00:57:10 | hackage | crdt-event-fold 1.0.0.2 - Garbage collected event folding CRDT. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/crdt-event-fold-1.0.0.2 (rickowens) |
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| 01:32:10 | hackage | digit 0.10 - A data-type representing digits 0-9 and other combinations https://hackage.haskell.org/package/digit-0.10 (TonyMorris) |
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| 02:02:10 | hackage | musicw 0.3.6 - Sound synthesis library, to be used with GHCJS and Web Audio API https://hackage.haskell.org/package/musicw-0.3.6 (dktr0) |
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| 03:23:51 | <unihernandez22> | Hi |
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| 03:24:36 | <hyiltiz-M> | Hello |
| 03:24:43 | <yushyin> | hello |
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| 03:25:12 | <hyiltiz-M> | Do people not using Matrix see this Avatar icon? |
| 03:25:21 | <unihernandez22> | https://pastebin.com/JttfKa2t |
| 03:25:32 | <unihernandez22> | Is there another way to do that? |
| 03:25:41 | <unihernandez22> | Because it is too slow |
| 03:25:46 | <jamestmartin> | hyiltiz-M: I don't know what you're talking about, so I'd say probably not |
| 03:26:19 | <unihernandez22> | It is for these benchmarks https://github.com/jabbalaci/SpeedTests |
| 03:26:22 | <sm[m]> | hyiltiz-M: not even matrix users see it :) just a place holder H avatar here |
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| 03:31:10 | <hyiltiz-M> | Awesome! I'd hate to clutter everyone's IRC cache with a stupic avatar |
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| 03:34:59 | <unihernandez22> | Can anyone help me? :) |
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| 03:36:45 | <koz_> | unihernandez22: Make your cache a Vector. |
| 03:36:50 | <koz_> | !! on lists is not very good. |
| 03:37:30 | <hyiltiz> | unihernandez22: u don't seem to be using memoisation either (tho the cache variable seems to be trying to do so?) |
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| 03:40:50 | <dibblego> | > :t (!!) -- ftw |
| 03:40:50 | <dibblego> | (!!) -- ftw :: Ixed s => s -> Index s -> Maybe (IxValue s) |
| 03:40:52 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:1: error: <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘:’ |
| 03:41:39 | <unihernandez22> | hyiltiz: The cache are the squares of the digits |
| 03:42:40 | <hyiltiz> | yeah i see that; but the rec. func. isM isn't re-uisng any of its computations, no? |
| 03:42:59 | <unihernandez22> | No |
| 03:43:24 | <unihernandez22> | Because the algorithm must be the same as the other languages, for the benchmark |
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| 03:54:14 | <dolio> | It's not a cache of the squares of digits, though. |
| 03:54:26 | <unihernandez22> | dolio ?? |
| 03:54:42 | <dolio> | It's a cache of digits raised to themselves as a power. |
| 03:54:53 | <unihernandez22> | Oh, yes |
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| 03:56:33 | <dolio> | If it is supposed to be squares, using a list is almost certain to be slower. |
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| 03:57:28 | <unihernandez22> | No, I got confused |
| 03:57:46 | <unihernandez22> | It's suposed to be the digits raised to themselves |
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| 03:58:45 | <dolio> | Well, I'm unsure what would be faster in some of those scenarios. I'd probably bet on the list still being slower, I guess. |
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| 03:59:22 | <unihernandez22> | https://pastebin.com/si3PT0Wr |
| 03:59:27 | <unihernandez22> | That's a bit faster |
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| 04:05:07 | <Axman6> | unihernandez22: btw, filter (\i -> isMunchausen i) [0 .. 440_000_000] is the same as filter isMunchausen [0 .. 440_000_000] |
| 04:06:12 | <unihernandez22> | Oh yes, that's because the function was different before |
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| 04:07:57 | <Axman6> | this feels like one of those problems that spending sometime thinking about it would let you drasticly reduce the number of numbers you needed to check |
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| 04:08:37 | <Axman6> | I assume there's some relatively simple relationship between calc n and calc (n+1) |
| 04:09:03 | <Axman6> | I find this code quite hard to follow though |
| 04:09:23 | <Axman6> | it feels like it's just a fold over the digits |
| 04:10:21 | <unihernandez22> | calc is the sum of digits raised to themselves |
| 04:10:28 | <unihernandez22> | as a power |
| 04:11:12 | <Axman6> | I would try and make things a little simpler to follow by doing something like calc = sum . map recourse . digits or something |
| 04:11:24 | <Axman6> | rather than passing in f to recourse |
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| 04:12:45 | <Axman6> | breaking the problem down into smaller, composible parts will make it clearer what the relationship between n and n+1 is, at least |
| 04:12:53 | <dsal> | That `return 0` is super weird. If you got rid of that, you could also get rid of the do. And you could get rid of the lambda in the filter. |
| 04:13:12 | <dsal> | `main = mapM_ print $ filter isMunchausen [0 .. 440_000_000]` |
| 04:13:33 | <Axman6> | surprised that return 0 even type checks, but then remembered that main can have type IO a |
| 04:13:45 | <Axman6> | even though we always use main :: IO () |
| 04:13:54 | <dsal> | Ah. I didn't realize that. I've never seen that. Yeah, I always () |
| 04:14:44 | <dolio> | I don't think it actually does what is expected, though. |
| 04:15:18 | <dolio> | It should be `exitSuccess` if you want to do that explicitly. |
| 04:15:28 | <Axman6> | yeah I'm not convinced it does either... thouggh IU just realised I was parsing cache ! r + f q ad cache ! (r + f q) and not (cache ! r) + (f q) |
| 04:16:05 | Axman6 | has had about three hours sleep and struggles to type at the best of times. Good luck everybody |
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| 04:18:26 | <unihernandez22> | dsal, I changed that, but the problem here is the speed |
| 04:19:10 | <dsal> | Sure, understood. I'm just looking at all the things. My brain can translate code without understanding it. I'm on that level right now. |
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| 04:20:21 | <Axman6> | > let digits 0 = []; digits n = case quotRem n 10 of (n',d) -> d : digits n' in digits 12345 |
| 04:20:23 | <lambdabot> | [5,4,3,2,1] |
| 04:20:44 | <dsal> | I don't understand what you're trying to do. |
| 04:21:01 | <Axman6> | > let digits 0 = []; digits n = case quotRem n 10 of (n',d) -> d : digits n'; square n = n^n in map square $ digits 12345 |
| 04:21:04 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:77: error: |
| 04:21:04 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:77: error: Parse error in pattern: square |
| 04:21:21 | <unihernandez22> | dsal https://github.com/jabbalaci/SpeedTests |
| 04:22:19 | <dsal> | Ah, that's helpful. |
| 04:23:07 | <Axman6> | > let digits 0 = []; digits n = case quotRem n 10 of (n',d) -> d : digits n'; ; square n = n^n in map square $ digits 12345 |
| 04:23:09 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:79: error: |
| 04:23:09 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:79: error: Parse error in pattern: square |
| 04:23:21 | <Axman6> | > let digits 0 = []; digits n = (case quotRem n 10 of (n',d) -> d : digits n') ; square n = n^n in map square $ digits 12345 |
| 04:23:24 | <lambdabot> | [3125,256,27,4,1] |
| 04:23:33 | <Axman6> | > let digits 0 = []; digits n = (case quotRem n 10 of (n',d) -> d : digits n') ; square n = n^n in sum $ map square $ digits 12345 |
| 04:23:35 | <lambdabot> | 3413 |
| 04:24:01 | <Axman6> | > let digits 0 = []; digits n = (case quotRem n 10 of (n',d) -> d : digits n') ; square n = n^n in map (sum . map square . digits) [1000..] |
| 04:24:04 | <lambdabot> | [4,4,7,30,259,3128,46659,823546,16777219,387420492,4,4,7,30,259,3128,46659,8... |
| 04:24:34 | <Axman6> | > let digits 0 = []; digits n = (case quotRem n 10 of (n',d) -> d : digits n') ; square n = n^n in filter (\n -> n == sum . map square . digits $ n) [1..] |
| 04:24:36 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 04:24:36 | <lambdabot> | • Couldn't match expected type ‘(c -> c) -> Bool’ |
| 04:24:36 | <lambdabot> | with actual type ‘Bool’ |
| 04:24:47 | <Axman6> | > let digits 0 = []; digits n = (case quotRem n 10 of (n',d) -> d : digits n') ; square n = n^n in filter (\n -> n == (sum . map square . digits $ n) [1..] |
| 04:24:50 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:155: error: |
| 04:24:50 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:155: error: |
| 04:24:50 | <lambdabot> | parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets) |
| 04:24:51 | <Axman6> | > let digits 0 = []; digits n = (case quotRem n 10 of (n',d) -> d : digits n') ; square n = n^n in filter (\n -> n == (sum . map square . digits $ n)) [1..] |
| 04:24:57 | <lambdabot> | mueval-core: Time limit exceeded |
| 04:24:58 | <dsal> | Doing things on one line is hard. heh |
| 04:25:23 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 04:26:11 | <Axman6> | so an interesting thing about this is that the tail of the result of digits is the same for n and n+1 unless the last digit is 10, which shows there's some caching to be had |
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| 04:26:36 | <int-e> | square n = n^n?! |
| 04:26:45 | <Axman6> | fight me |
| 04:26:55 | <dsal> | dimensionate |
| 04:27:06 | <Axman6> | tetrate? |
| 04:27:28 | <unihernandez22> | int-e hahaha |
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| 04:30:32 | <unihernandez22> | Ok... I'm going to sleep |
| 04:30:59 | <int-e> | smurf, frobnicate, foo, bar, baz, xyzzy, barney, fred. |
| 04:32:24 | <Axman6> | I thought n ^ n was tetration |
| 04:32:42 | <Axman6> | no |
| 04:32:58 | <Axman6> | it's smaller than that |
| 04:33:10 | <Axman6> | (me calls it pentration) |
| 04:33:26 | <int-e> | nah, tetration is something silly like n ^^ m = iterate (n^) n !! m |
| 04:33:32 | <Axman6> | yeah |
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| 04:34:47 | <unihernandez22> | selfpow n = n ^ n |
| 04:35:14 | <MarcelineVQ> | dupsquare |
| 04:35:21 | <Axman6> | > 9 ^ 9 |
| 04:35:24 | <lambdabot> | 387420489 |
| 04:35:34 | <Axman6> | join (^) |
| 04:35:57 | <int-e> | How about `nendo n` because it counts endomorphisms from an n-element set to itself... |
| 04:36:30 | <Axman6> | sounds like a Star Wars character |
| 04:38:58 | <Axman6> | unihernandez22: btw, using Vector would make the indexing more efficient, since Arrays allow you to have arbitrary indexes, so there's alwats a conversion between your index and the underlying index into the array. Vector plus uunsafeIndex would be the best once you know it can never index out of bounds |
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| 04:40:48 | <unihernandez22> | Axman6, but I need it without external packages |
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| 04:45:42 | <unihernandez22> | Axman6, I tried directly with a function defined for each digit statically, and the speed doesn't change |
| 04:46:10 | <unihernandez22> | So that's not the problem |
| 04:46:46 | <dsal> | Yeah, it's unlikely your problem is that exponentiation is slow, but more that you're doing it more than you need to. |
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| 04:48:51 | <unihernandez22> | dsal, but with other languages it take ~5 seconds |
| 04:48:59 | <unihernandez22> | And with Haskell 1 minute |
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| 04:49:17 | <unihernandez22> | So I think I'm doing something wrong |
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| 04:55:35 | <dsal> | Let me try it... |
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| 05:07:34 | <unihernandez22> | Ok... Bye |
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| 05:08:10 | <Axman6> | well I got it to 23s using LLVM, but it is still surprising it's unable to optimise it as well as the quite similar C code |
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| 05:12:13 | <monsterchrom> | int-e, Axman6: As in, Lando counts left Kan ("Lan") extensions? :) |
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| 05:17:35 | <dsal> | Yeah, this is strangely slow. Why can't my computer math faster? |
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| 05:46:09 | hackage | which 0.2 - Determine the full path to an executable. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/which-0.2 (abrar) |
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| 07:56:30 | <dminuoso> | Mmm, I've been pondering about whether a SelectiveDo notation makes sense. |
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| 07:56:58 | <dminuoso> | One of my annoyances with selective functors has been the ergonomics since you can't use do expressively |
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| 07:58:16 | <dminuoso> | Though things are bearable if you use `branch` a lot, such that code looks a bit if/then/else-y |
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| 09:59:26 | <maerwald> | ApplicativDo was a mistake imo, SelectiveDo won't be any better |
| 10:01:40 | hackage | in-other-words 0.1.1.0 - A higher-order effect system where the sky's the limit https://hackage.haskell.org/package/in-other-words-0.1.1.0 (KingoftheHomeless) |
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| 10:03:53 | <merijn> | ApplicativeDo is to complicated |
| 10:04:39 | <Rembane> | What's the syntax for ApplicativeDo? Left arrows? |
| 10:06:32 | <Kolkrabe> | It's the usual do-notation, IIRC |
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| 10:08:16 | <merijn> | Rembane: Do syntax, but with voodoo black magic deciding if it works or you get a type error |
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| 10:09:46 | <Rembane> | merijn: That sounds like something I don't want in a programming language. |
| 10:10:08 | <[exa]> | Rembane: some people hate the applicative .. <$> .. <*> .. <*> .. noodles |
| 10:10:23 | <dminuoso> | Rembane: Well, think of it as a freebie. |
| 10:10:31 | <dminuoso> | Consider the use case of haxl |
| 10:10:48 | <dminuoso> | You get the expressivity of monadic code, but with automatic parallelization whenever possible |
| 10:11:00 | <dminuoso> | If you dont want it, you get no automatic parallelization |
| 10:11:41 | <lortabac> | maybe they should have added an explicit keyword for ApplicativeDo |
| 10:11:42 | <Rembane> | [exa]: I love them! :) |
| 10:11:52 | <Rembane> | dminuoso: That is a very good point though. |
| 10:13:14 | <[exa]> | they overloaded `do` instead of using `doA` or something? |
| 10:13:27 | <lortabac> | [exa]: yes |
| 10:13:30 | <[exa]> | I hoped that people have learned from `mdo` |
| 10:14:39 | → | cleveraware joins (~kali@45.133.7.43) |
| 10:14:51 | <dminuoso> | Introducing new keywords is very unpopular in GHC. |
| 10:15:01 | <dminuoso> | It causes friction every time |
| 10:15:34 | <[exa]> | lucky we have pretty nice isolated extensions! |
| 10:15:45 | <[exa]> | ( :] ) |
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| 10:15:58 | <Uniaika> | hmm, I think there will be an extension for having Selective do without RebindableSyntax |
| 10:16:05 | <Uniaika> | damnit, I can't recall its name |
| 10:16:16 | <dminuoso> | If there is, Id be very curious what the ergonomics is |
| 10:16:37 | <dminuoso> | Is it a sort of modified case-of? |
| 10:16:42 | <dminuoso> | a kind of `applicative-case-of`? |
| 10:17:14 | <dminuoso> | (That seems to be the only way that can make sense) |
| 10:18:02 | × | cabpa quits (~cabpa@110.54.186.150) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 10:20:23 | <dminuoso> | Such that you could do `let s :: Parser (Either L R); s = ...; in caseS s of Left x -> ...; Right x -> ...; |
| 10:20:40 | <Uniaika> | dminuoso: https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/blob/master/proposals/0216-qualified-do.rst |
| 10:20:46 | <Uniaika> | it's QualifiedDo! |
| 10:21:06 | <Uniaika> | and here is the MR https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/merge_requests/3436 |
| 10:21:07 | <dminuoso> | Uniaika: I recall that, but Im not sure whether it could help at all |
| 10:21:19 | <dminuoso> | Selective requires a case-of version, rather than a do version |
| 10:21:40 | <dminuoso> | But case-of has no RebindableSyntax to speak of |
| 10:21:58 | <dminuoso> | Or rather a weird cross between `case of` and `(>>=)` |
| 10:22:09 | <[exa]> | +1 ^ |
| 10:22:09 | <dminuoso> | Without guards? |
| 10:23:05 | <[exa]> | they kindof "made sure this works" with having the Either type in the paper (so that a->b branch "must" be executed) but it would clearly help if the whole patternmatching mechanism was supported |
| 10:23:23 | <dminuoso> | [exa]: Except you can rig the same type signature with just Applicative |
| 10:23:30 | <dminuoso> | So the type signature alone is not strong enough |
| 10:23:41 | ← | thblt parts (~thblt@unaffiliated/thblt) ("ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.1)") |
| 10:24:19 | <[exa]> | still kindof thinking how's the select useful in the common case when the decision trees don't really terminate |
| 10:24:46 | ← | cleveraware parts (~kali@45.133.7.43) () |
| 10:25:41 | <merijn> | [exa]: The Selective Functor paper is pretty goood :) |
| 10:25:48 | <[exa]> | yeah reading it now |
| 10:25:57 | <Uniaika> | yes it's a good read |
| 10:26:30 | <dminuoso> | Im still hoping parsley will become a thing some day |
| 10:26:31 | <Uniaika> | as a follow-up and concrete implementation, there is also : https://github.com/kowainik/validation-selective |
| 10:26:45 | <dminuoso> | https://github.com/J-mie6/ParsleyHaskell |
| 10:26:52 | <dminuoso> | It's still being developed on |
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| 10:27:22 | <Uniaika> | hi kuribas :) |
| 10:27:46 | <[exa]> | dminuoso: is there any read on parsley? |
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| 10:28:04 | <dminuoso> | [exa]: There was a presenstation on Haskell eXchange 2018 |
| 10:28:17 | <dminuoso> | But I think the skillcasts are not publically available unless you bought a ticket |
| 10:28:31 | <dminuoso> | (Or was it 2019?) |
| 10:28:46 | <[exa]> | dminuoso: can you sum it up in like 1 sentence? I can read through the code but you know... :D |
| 10:29:14 | <dminuoso> | [exa]: So selective is a cross between monad and applicative. You get dynamic choise based on previous results, but static analyzability. |
| 10:29:25 | <dminuoso> | The idea is to build a parser optimizer in template haskell using that knowledge. |
| 10:29:43 | <kuribas> | Uniaika: hey :) |
| 10:29:44 | <dminuoso> | Where TH would probe and dissect your parser, and transform it |
| 10:30:00 | <[exa]> | dminuoso: ooh okay |
| 10:30:29 | <[exa]> | I don't like the TH part but it makes sense for sure |
| 10:31:15 | <dminuoso> | Im not sure whether it still uses TH, but I think the demo used it |
| 10:32:03 | <dminuoso> | TH at least would avoid some external tooling that you need to glue into the build process |
| 10:32:47 | <dminuoso> | In a perfect world this would probably be a compiler plugin |
| 10:33:39 | <[exa]> | like the point with TH is that it's getting back to bison-ish parser processors agaon |
| 10:34:06 | <[exa]> | *again |
| 10:34:06 | <dminuoso> | except you get to describe your parser with your beloved parser combinators |
| 10:34:12 | ← | vilpan parts (~0@212.117.1.172) () |
| 10:34:24 | <dminuoso> | *and* get the benefits of the parser generator generating a better performing parser |
| 10:34:34 | <dminuoso> | (or perhaps even detect parser bugs) |
| 10:35:21 | <[exa]> | shift-reduce conflicts yay! |
| 10:35:25 | <dminuoso> | external tool I think is very unlikely, because of multiple modules, language extensions, etc.. |
| 10:35:39 | hackage | modern-uri 0.3.3.0 - Modern library for working with URIs https://hackage.haskell.org/package/modern-uri-0.3.3.0 (mrkkrp) |
| 10:35:42 | <dminuoso> | so I think TH and compiler plugin are your only options |
| 10:35:52 | <dminuoso> | Unless you offload the parser combinator into a haskell-like DSL |
| 10:36:10 | <[exa]> | anyway you still cannot use the old-fashioned patternmatch or if in the parser b/c it wouldn't get caught by Selective, right? |
| 10:36:21 | <dminuoso> | Sure you can |
| 10:36:42 | <dminuoso> | selective just wouldnt know about it, and assume both effects can happen |
| 10:37:05 | [exa] | puzzled now |
| 10:37:06 | <dminuoso> | superficially it'd just see: |
| 10:37:17 | <dminuoso> | branch :: Selective f => f (Either a b) -> f (a -> c) -> f (b -> c) -> f c |
| 10:37:25 | <dminuoso> | branch f g h |
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| 10:37:33 | <[exa]> | oh the ifs are rewritten by TH? |
| 10:37:34 | <dminuoso> | and know that these three effects can all happen |
| 10:37:43 | <dminuoso> | no, the structure on selective itself |
| 10:37:45 | <dminuoso> | think |
| 10:37:58 | <[exa]> | sorry I'm probably missing something important |
| 10:37:58 | <dminuoso> | imagine this was written in a Free fashion |
| 10:38:10 | <dminuoso> | with Monad you couldnt realistically go in and manipulate much |
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| 10:38:15 | <dminuoso> | (even if its a free monad) |
| 10:38:22 | <dminuoso> | thta is, manipulate without changing the meaning |
| 10:38:42 | <dminuoso> | the core issue is |
| 10:38:45 | <dminuoso> | % :t (>>=) |
| 10:38:45 | <yahb> | dminuoso: Monad m => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b |
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| 10:38:59 | <[exa]> | yeah, you can get new effects from "environment" |
| 10:39:06 | <[exa]> | (with monads) |
| 10:39:18 | <dminuoso> | Is an optimization barrier. To optimize into >>= it would require GHC to analyze the function itself, leading very quickly to halting problems |
| 10:39:38 | <dminuoso> | or not just optimization, but introspection |
| 10:39:49 | <dminuoso> | consider optparse-applicative otoh, which can statically give you informatoin about the parser structure |
| 10:39:53 | <dminuoso> | it can tell you exactly what flags are possible |
| 10:40:21 | <[exa]> | yeah that's understood, that is impossible with (Appl|Select)ives |
| 10:40:25 | <dminuoso> | but optparse applicative does not have the power to say "if you first specify -f, then we accept another flag -g, otherwise we accept -h in additoin" |
| 10:40:57 | <dminuoso> | selective gives you that power, while allowing the tooling to analyze and tell you `-f/-g/-h` are possible |
| 10:41:20 | <dminuoso> | so some optparse-selective could give you dynamic choices, while maintaining the analyzability to generate help pages from |
| 10:41:27 | <dminuoso> | the reason is |
| 10:41:34 | <[exa]> | oh I get it now sorry |
| 10:41:39 | <dminuoso> | if it sees `branch f g h`, then it knows all `f, g and h` are possible |
| 10:42:15 | <dminuoso> | equivalent to how `(,,) <$> f <*> g <*> h` lets you know that all `f, g and h` are possible |
| 10:42:18 | <[exa]> | the confusion was that I somehow expected that you could have 2 branches of code that are switched by a simple 'if' (outside of selective) but that's impossible b/c you don't have >>= to extract the boolean |
| 10:42:50 | <dminuoso> | Right, the branching in selective functors is constrained to `select/branch` |
| 10:43:08 | <dminuoso> | Which is why I said that the equivalent to do-notation would be some version of `case-of` |
| 10:43:15 | <dminuoso> | So instead of saying |
| 10:43:26 | <dminuoso> | `branch f (branch g h i) j k` |
| 10:43:29 | <dminuoso> | you might be able to say |
| 10:43:44 | <typetetris> | Whats a small server side rendering web framework to look at? |
| 10:43:57 | <dminuoso> | caseS f of G -> ...; H -> ...; I -> ...; J -> ... |
| 10:44:03 | <typetetris> | Especially for creating easy links between pages. |
| 10:44:21 | <dminuoso> | Where caseS is a "sort-of" constrained version of bind |
| 10:45:02 | <dminuoso> | But such a thing would require some first-class way of specifying generic pattern matching |
| 10:45:42 | <dminuoso> | typetetris: you can just use servant or scotty? |
| 10:46:11 | <[exa]> | hm, lenses? `caseS :: [ (Prism ... , sel) ] -> sel -> sel` |
| 10:46:54 | <typetetris> | dminuoso: now you mention it, there is a link creating function in servant? |
| 10:47:23 | <dminuoso> | typetetris: Mmm, perhaps you could concoct such a thing yourself? |
| 10:47:41 | <dminuoso> | Add some type combinator to tag endpoints |
| 10:47:43 | <[exa]> | typetetris: I used scotty and just made a small function that gave the correct link to given routes |
| 10:48:02 | <dminuoso> | Such that you can say `Tag "foo" :> "foo" :> Get '[] NoContent` |
| 10:48:13 | <[exa]> | typetetris: if I got it correctly you basically want to make sure that rendered html anchors match what's in routing? |
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| 10:48:42 | <[exa]> | dminuoso: anyway thanks for explanation :] |
| 10:48:54 | <dminuoso> | And then pull out the route through some `getUrl :: (KnownSymbol k, MonadFail m) => Proxy k -> m Url` |
| 10:49:02 | <dminuoso> | With some magic machinery that needs to be written |
| 10:49:17 | <typetetris> | [exa]: yes |
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| 10:49:26 | <dminuoso> | That would be some real type tetris right there. |
| 10:49:37 | <merijn> | dminuoso: Please make optparse-selective so I won't have to ;) |
| 10:49:47 | <typetetris> | dminuoso: I knew, I need to change my nickname some time ... :( |
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| 10:50:04 | <dminuoso> | typetetris: I think it should be quite possible, in fact. |
| 10:50:11 | <dminuoso> | ANd useful |
| 10:50:20 | <typetetris> | dminuoso: I think it is already there :) |
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| 10:51:35 | <[exa]> | merijn: hopefully that could finally allow the global options leaking to subparsers :] |
| 10:51:46 | <dminuoso> | typetetris: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/servant-0.16.2/docs/Servant-Links.html |
| 10:51:50 | <merijn> | [exa]: That's already fixed, I think? |
| 10:51:56 | <[exa]> | merijn: O_O |
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| 10:52:06 | <dminuoso> | typetetris: Would that work for you? |
| 10:52:11 | [exa] | opens docs |
| 10:52:31 | <merijn> | [exa]: https://github.com/pcapriotti/optparse-applicative/issues/294 |
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| 10:52:52 | <typetetris> | dminuoso: I will take a look at it. |
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| 10:53:11 | <[exa]> | merijn: w o n d e r f u l |
| 10:53:23 | <dminuoso> | Personally, I'd try very hard to avoid yesod. I'd take any pain to get links with servant instead :p |
| 10:53:25 | <merijn> | [exa]: It's even on hackage already :) |
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| 10:54:23 | <typetetris> | What is that selective thing you are talking about? |
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| 10:54:40 | hackage | mu-schema 0.3.1.1 - Format-independent schemas for serialization https://hackage.haskell.org/package/mu-schema-0.3.1.1 (AlejandroSerrano) |
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| 10:55:57 | <[exa]> | merijn: are there any code changes required? (I'm on optparse 0.16) |
| 10:56:01 | <merijn> | typetetris: Selective functors |
| 10:56:16 | <merijn> | [exa]: The changelog has some stuff on how to enable it |
| 10:56:24 | <dminuoso> | Ah what I wouldnt give for "disabling the type system" for just a moment, so I could build [1,[2,3,4],5,6,[7,8]] and flatten it... |
| 10:56:26 | <[exa]> | great, thanks |
| 10:56:26 | <merijn> | or disable? I don't remember |
| 10:56:30 | <dminuoso> | Is there any cool tricks to build lists like that? |
| 10:57:04 | <merijn> | typetetris: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/selective |
| 10:57:17 | <merijn> | typetetris: See the paper linked in the docs for an explanation of the niche it fills |
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| 11:00:11 | <[exa]> | back to selectives...this sounds like a great way to describe DFAs (and regexes) |
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| 11:03:24 | [exa] | takes a huge melting pot and combines alternative+selective |
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| 11:09:35 | <[exa]> | merijn: anyway it's off by default, enabled by `prefs $ subparserInline <> helpShowGlobals`, thanks a lot! |
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| 11:11:49 | <Uniaika> | dminuoso: not that I know of :/ |
| 11:12:03 | <Uniaika> | except maybe building your own AST of values and operating on it |
| 11:15:11 | hackage | mu-protobuf 0.4.0.1 - Protocol Buffers serialization and gRPC schema import for Mu microservices https://hackage.haskell.org/package/mu-protobuf-0.4.0.1 (AlejandroSerrano) |
| 11:15:45 | <dminuoso> | Well, Im just using a slightly modifivation of Writer |
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| 11:16:08 | <dminuoso> | newtype ListW e a = ListW { unListW (Writer [e] a) } |
| 11:16:22 | <dminuoso> | with some putE :: e -> ListW e (); putEs :: [e] -> ListW e (); |
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| 11:17:04 | <dminuoso> | So I can do `execList $ do { putE a; putEs bs; putE c; putE; d; putEs es }` |
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| 11:19:13 | <Uniaika> | that's uh… that's a way to do it indeed :D |
| 11:21:35 | <dminuoso> | an alternative is just `[a] <> bs <> [c] <> [d] <> es` and align it nicely vertically |
| 11:21:43 | <dminuoso> | Perhaps Ill just do that and not care |
| 11:22:39 | hackage | megaparsec 9.0.1 - Monadic parser combinators https://hackage.haskell.org/package/megaparsec-9.0.1 (mrkkrp) |
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| 11:43:21 | <dexterfoo> | i am using: cabal v2-build how can i see which versions of dependencies are being used? |
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| 11:44:21 | <dminuoso> | dexterfoo: you can use cabal-plan |
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| 11:52:59 | <kuribas> | dminuoso: I think you want DList? |
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| 11:54:10 | <kuribas> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/dlist |
| 11:54:33 | <kuribas> | which is basically Endo |
| 11:54:35 | <kuribas> | :t Endo |
| 11:54:37 | <lambdabot> | (a -> a) -> Endo a |
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| 11:57:10 | <kuribas> | DList creates a tree internally, then you flatten it to a list |
| 11:57:20 | <kuribas> | in linear time |
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| 12:15:03 | <merijn> | dexterfoo: That depends why you wanna know :p |
| 12:16:29 | <merijn> | If the reason is, say, "because I wanna get a reproducible configuration" then the answer is "you probably want (v2-)freeze" |
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| 12:27:57 | <dminuoso> | Mmm. Im starting to approach 150k lines of Haskell code for this library.. |
| 12:28:15 | <dminuoso> | Compilation times are getting worse every day... |
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| 12:29:30 | <dminuoso> | All for the sake of type safety. I should have build this codec library with runtime dictionaries, and some Dynamic sprinkling. |
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| 12:39:42 | <__monty__> | Is this a single-person codebase? |
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| 12:43:37 | <dminuoso> | Yes. |
| 12:43:40 | <dminuoso> | code generated |
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| 12:44:02 | <dminuoso> | If I went the Dynamic route, this would probably be a 500-1000 lines thing |
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| 12:50:01 | <tomsmeding> | I'm waiting for the day when ghc can meaningfully compile modules of a single package in parallel with speedup factor actually reasonably close the number of threads |
| 12:50:16 | <tomsmeding> | that day I shall be happy |
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| 12:57:23 | <merijn> | tomsmeding: The parallelism there is limited by the dependency graph of your modules |
| 12:57:43 | <tomsmeding> | I know, I have extensive experience with building makefiles ;) |
| 12:57:57 | <tomsmeding> | currently ghc doesn't even try though |
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| 12:58:27 | <tomsmeding> | the -j option only compiles a single module using multiple threads, I think, and I find that to give marginal to no speedup in practice |
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| 12:59:00 | <tomsmeding> | running multiple ghc's in parallel with 'make' suffers from lots of ghc overhead I'm told, though I actually haven't tried that recently... |
| 12:59:17 | <tomsmeding> | (and also doesn't play nice with cabal and friends) |
| 12:59:41 | <merijn> | Well, there's Shake ;) |
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| 13:12:57 | <tomsmeding> | that replaces the 'make' in my messages above, doesn't it? |
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| 13:30:49 | <bahamas> | can you handle multiple patterns differently in a lambda? |
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| 13:31:18 | <geekosaur> | not without an explicit case |
| 13:31:33 | <geekosaur> | (or lambdacase, I guess) |
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| 13:35:21 | <bahamas> | I see |
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| 14:09:42 | <maerwald> | I'm also not too pleased with our syntactic options there |
| 14:10:21 | <maerwald> | but if you use multiwayif... |
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| 14:19:10 | hackage | mmsyn2 0.3.1.0 - The library that can be used for multiple (Ord a) => a -> b transformations https://hackage.haskell.org/package/mmsyn2-0.3.1.0 (OleksandrZhabenko) |
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| 14:30:16 | <texasmynsted> | I was reading about haskell deployments and the article talked about upx to compress the executable. It looks like a win. Does anybody here use it for their haskell deployments? |
| 14:30:19 | <texasmynsted> | https://upx.github.io |
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| 14:33:33 | <merijn> | texasmynsted: I think upx is a terrible and dumb idea |
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| 14:33:40 | <texasmynsted> | lol why? |
| 14:33:43 | <merijn> | texasmynsted: What, exactly, do you expect to win by it? |
| 14:34:09 | <maerwald> | upx sometime breaks binaries, depending on the algorithm |
| 14:34:17 | <texasmynsted> | faster deployments because the executable is smaller. Take up less space on the server. |
| 14:34:23 | <texasmynsted> | Hmm. |
| 14:34:27 | <merijn> | texasmynsted: Is that really a problem, though? |
| 14:34:40 | <maerwald> | I wouldn't trust anything that comes out of it. Is there any proof that it's the same binary? |
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| 14:34:46 | <merijn> | texasmynsted: How big are your binaries that this is a significant bottleneck? |
| 14:34:47 | <texasmynsted> | not one worth breaking binaries over |
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| 14:35:07 | <merijn> | texasmynsted: If you want smaller binaries trying using --enable-split-sections and stripping the binary first |
| 14:35:39 | texasmynsted | reads about --enable-split-sections |
| 14:35:42 | <merijn> | Especially split sections, which can have an order of magnitude shrink if you have tons of dependencies |
| 14:35:54 | <merijn> | (it does mean you'll have to rebuild everything first :)) |
| 14:36:02 | <texasmynsted> | If I had to choose, I would rather have a faster binary than a smaller one |
| 14:37:01 | <merijn> | texasmynsted: Basically, split sections lets you only like relevant portions of your dependencies. So if you only use 1 or 2 functions from, say, lens and lens was compiled with split-sections you pull only a fraction of lens' compiled code into your executable |
| 14:37:25 | <merijn> | In terms of "impact per effort" it's probably the lowest fruit for Haskell binaries (together with stripping) |
| 14:37:54 | <texasmynsted> | wow, why is this not the default? |
| 14:38:24 | <merijn> | texasmynsted: Because older linkers don't support it and only made it into GHC fairly recently (a few years ago I recent to me!) |
| 14:38:33 | <texasmynsted> | ah okay |
| 14:38:36 | <texasmynsted> | Thank you. |
| 14:38:46 | <merijn> | Safer to make it "opt in" then risk breaking toolchains |
| 14:39:14 | <texasmynsted> | I need to find a ghc news site or something so I can learn these tricks |
| 14:39:19 | <merijn> | texasmynsted: I would say if binaries are smaller than, say 20 MB it's not worth any effort to go smaller (and even for biggers ones it might not be worth it) |
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| 14:39:41 | <maerwald> | well, GHC is already hard to get working on systems that don't have ld.gold |
| 14:39:44 | <merijn> | texasmynsted: I recommend skimming the very good and often overlooked GHC user guide every so often and reading the release notes for new GHCs |
| 14:39:52 | <merijn> | @where userguide |
| 14:39:53 | <lambdabot> | https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/ |
| 14:39:56 | <maerwald> | so not sure backwards compat is hat important |
| 14:40:54 | <merijn> | texasmynsted: haskell-cafe, haskell-libraries and ghc-devs mailing lists are also a good way to keep an eye on things, they're not that high traffic |
| 14:41:16 | <merijn> | And lurking in #ghc of course :p |
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| 14:45:00 | <texasmynsted> | :-) |
| 14:45:02 | <texasmynsted> | Thank you |
| 14:45:10 | hackage | snap-server 1.1.2.0 - A web server for the Snap Framework https://hackage.haskell.org/package/snap-server-1.1.2.0 (GregoryCollins) |
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| 14:45:30 | <merijn> | But yeah, release notes for new features and the user guide are the most instructive usually |
| 14:45:53 | <merijn> | texasmynsted: Like, there's an entire section on runtime tweaking and speeding up stuff that I think 80% of people aren't aware off |
| 14:46:01 | <merijn> | (and getting smaller binaries!) |
| 14:46:09 | <texasmynsted> | I am reading that now actually |
| 14:46:25 | <texasmynsted> | (I did not look for, or know it existed before) |
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| 14:57:55 | <tomsmeding> | (reading section 9 in the ghc user's guide...) |
| 14:57:58 | <tomsmeding> | "One time when Float might be a good idea is if you have a lot of them, say a giant array of Floats. They take up half the space in the heap compared to Doubles. However, this isn’t true on a 64-bit machine." |
| 14:58:38 | <tomsmeding> | this reminds me of the discussion here yesterday(?) aobut Word types in ghc all being 8 bytes long due to their definition being e.g. 'data Word8 = Word8 #Word' |
| 14:58:44 | <tomsmeding> | s/#Word/Word#/ |
| 14:59:04 | <tomsmeding> | is this the same kind of thing with Float/Double? That sounds stupid |
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| 14:59:20 | <dolio> | Even on 32-bit, they're more than half if boxed. |
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| 15:00:55 | <tomsmeding> | okay true, boxing reduces space saving, but then with boxing all space bets are off anyway |
| 15:01:25 | <__monty__> | Hmm, angerman just said something about Word sizing in #ghc, so *maybe* there's work towards changing that? |
| 15:01:55 | <dolio> | Apparently there is a Word8#, but Word8 doesn't use it. |
| 15:02:16 | <angerman> | Yes. Word8 = W8# Word8#, Int8 = I8# Int8# is coming. |
| 15:02:30 | <tomsmeding> | ah! neat stuff |
| 15:02:50 | <dolio> | I'm not sure how big Word8# actually is, though. There's also Float# that Float actually uses, so it might actually be smaller than Double, unless alignment makes that not happen. |
| 15:03:25 | <tomsmeding> | Float# adjacent to Float# should theoretically not induce any padding for alignment |
| 15:03:38 | <angerman> | it's just really annoying to get it in. It's necessary for apple silicon support, as arm64 (that's aarch64 in fruity speak) has a rather funky procedure calling convention for C, where it packs function arguments by their size on the stack. |
| 15:03:42 | <tomsmeding> | (at least, extrapolating from C :p) |
| 15:03:49 | <dolio> | I think that'd be the idea. |
| 15:03:59 | <angerman> | So if you FFI into something it needs to be 4byte int32 on the stack, not just 8bytes for every arg. |
| 15:04:28 | <tomsmeding> | ah of course this is one of the many things pushed by the ARM work you are doing angerman :) |
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| 15:18:57 | <tomsmeding> | in a simple test, an unboxed array from Data.Array.UArray with Floats indeed takes ~4*num_elements bytes of memory, whereas the same with Doubles takes ~8*num_bytes of memory |
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| 15:20:59 | <tomjaguarpaw> | I'm trying to build stm from source https://github.com/haskell/stm. The testsuite has a bound base < 4.14 so I can't configure it. What's going on? |
| 15:22:34 | <merijn> | tomjaguarpaw: the main package only had its dependency bumped a month ago, so maybe they forgot to bump the testsuite? |
| 15:22:45 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Ah, I'll try just doing that. |
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| 15:22:53 | <merijn> | CI isn't testing 8.10 yet either |
| 15:22:56 | <tomjaguarpaw> | How would I build /without/ the test suit, in any case? |
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| 15:23:04 | <tomjaguarpaw> | I tried --disable-tests |
| 15:25:19 | <dolio> | The cabal file doesn't actually have a test suite. |
| 15:25:41 | <tomjaguarpaw> | I think it's pulled in by cabal.project |
| 15:25:43 | <merijn> | dolio: There's a testsuite + cabal file in the testsuite directory and cabal.project pulls it in |
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| 15:26:35 | <dolio> | Right, so you should build only the stm package, probably. |
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| 15:28:31 | <tomjaguarpaw> | How would I do that? cabal v2-build stm doesn't seem to work. |
| 15:28:37 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Nor does cabal v2-build . |
| 15:28:42 | <tomjaguarpaw> | I'm not sure what the incantation is |
| 15:29:02 | <merijn> | Just comment out the two lines in cabal.project? :p |
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| 15:32:44 | <dolio> | Possibly `.:stm` would work. I'm not super familiar with the syntax for specifying things. |
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| 15:34:33 | <angerman> | tomsmeding: I think it's also going to possibly provide some foundation for SIMD optimisations; let's see. |
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| 15:41:37 | <tomsmeding> | that would be very nice, more optimisations is always a good thing |
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| 15:44:09 | hackage | polysemy-fskvstore 0.1.0.0 - Run a KVStore as a filesystem in polysemy. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/polysemy-fskvstore-0.1.0.0 (locallycompact) |
| 15:47:21 | <mananamenos> | hi, `f a b $ f c d $ f w z` is there a way rewrite this this call in some way so that `f` appears once only/ |
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| 15:48:02 | <mananamenos> | `f a b $ f c d $ f w z []`, sorry, meant to write this |
| 15:48:12 | <__monty__> | (\g -> g a b $ g c d $ g w z []) f |
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| 15:48:56 | <dminuoso> | mananamenos: Can you share a bit more context perhaps? |
| 15:50:16 | <dminuoso> | `f a b (f c b (f w z))` looks like a list, so a recursion scheme could fit. |
| 15:51:54 | <mananamenos> | dminuoso, just playing with concepts..yes you're probably right, it is recursion scheme that would fit best |
| 15:52:05 | <merijn> | Or just uncurry + map |
| 15:52:15 | <merijn> | ah, no, not quite |
| 15:52:23 | <dminuoso> | uncurry + foldr |
| 15:52:30 | <dminuoso> | or, rather curry + foldr |
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| 15:52:35 | <dminuoso> | uh |
| 15:52:39 | <merijn> | :t uncurry |
| 15:52:41 | <lambdabot> | (a -> b -> c) -> (a, b) -> c |
| 15:52:44 | <dminuoso> | I always mix them up |
| 15:52:49 | <merijn> | same |
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| 16:01:36 | <mananamenos> | thanks |
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| 16:12:40 | <giorgoskos> | any hacker here? |
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| 16:16:08 | <ghoulguy> | giorgoskos, yes, how can I help you? |
| 16:16:27 | <giorgoskos> | i need someone to help me to hack someone facebook |
| 16:17:02 | <Uniaika> | wtf |
| 16:18:02 | <giorgoskos> | any help? |
| 16:18:14 | <ghoulguy> | giorgoskos, ah OK. You're on the wrong network. |
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| 16:18:35 | <giorgoskos> | were i go? |
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| 16:18:48 | <ghoulguy> | giorgoskos, try Google |
| 16:19:02 | <giorgoskos> | and? |
| 16:19:06 | <ghoulguy> | and search |
| 16:19:23 | <giorgoskos> | i found this site for hacks |
| 16:19:27 | <giorgoskos> | on google |
| 16:19:31 | ChanServ | sets mode +q *!*@79.130.40.161 |
| 16:19:32 | <monsterchrom> | "We are not a directory service either." |
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| 16:21:06 | <monsterchrom> | I inflicted shift/reset on my students today. They are now thoroughly turned inside-out. |
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| 16:21:33 | <monsterchrom> | I also caught a chance to say "now we shift gear to..." |
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| 16:24:35 | <koz_> | Not gonna lie - I didn't get shift/reset until I saw their Cont-based type sigs. |
| 16:24:47 | <koz_> | Then I was like 'oh, so _that's_ what they do, huh'. |
| 16:25:04 | <dolio> | Which ones? |
| 16:25:39 | ← | thblt parts (~thblt@unaffiliated/thblt) ("ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.1)") |
| 16:25:52 | <texasmynsted> | sigh Haskell cafe keeps telling my my email address is invalid. Oh well. |
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| 16:26:54 | <Uniaika> | texasmynsted: oh? |
| 16:27:02 | texasmynsted | shrug |
| 16:27:04 | <texasmynsted> | yes |
| 16:27:18 | <monsterchrom> | Today I showed Racket's shift/reset. But I think I will have a chance to show Haskell's Cont and runCont next month. |
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| 16:27:26 | <texasmynsted> | May try another day. |
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| 16:30:35 | <koz_> | dolio: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/transformers-0.5.6.2/docs/Control-Monad-Trans-Cont.html#v:reset and https://hackage.haskell.org/package/transformers-0.5.6.2/docs/Control-Monad-Trans-Cont.html#v:shift |
| 16:32:08 | <dolio> | koz_: Oh, those aren't the good ones. :Þ |
| 16:32:43 | <dolio> | The good ones are `reset :: Cont r r -> r` and `shift :: ((a -> r) -> r) -> Cont r a` |
| 16:32:43 | <monsterchrom> | "shift = ContT" is the good one :) |
| 16:32:55 | <monsterchrom> | err, shift = Cont |
| 16:32:58 | <dolio> | Yeah. |
| 16:33:29 | <monsterchrom> | http://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/cont.xhtml#shift-reset |
| 16:33:40 | <monsterchrom> | but it may be better to start from the beginning. |
| 16:33:44 | <dolio> | They show you how the effect scoping works in the types. |
| 16:34:25 | <monsterchrom> | http://blog.sigfpe.com/2011/10/quick-and-dirty-reinversion-of-control.html for more confusion :) |
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| 16:36:41 | <dolio> | ContT is fine, too. It's incorporating other effects. |
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| 16:39:49 | <dolio> | I haven't really thought about it, but you might be able to make sense of multi-prompt continuations that way, with multiple ContTs. |
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| 16:40:44 | <monsterchrom> | I think sigfpe or you or someone else wrote a blog on that. |
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| 16:41:02 | <monsterchrom> | but the limitation is it is statically scoped prompts, not dynamic prompts. |
| 16:41:22 | <monsterchrom> | Then again dynamic prompts can be error-prone like all dynamic things. |
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| 16:42:07 | <texasmynsted> | monsterchrom: I would like to see your presentation on Haskell's Cont. Will it be available online? |
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| 16:48:57 | <dexterfoo> | hSeek gives error "invalid argument" when trying to seek more than approx 16 TB. (15TB or less works). is this a known bug? |
| 16:49:18 | <texasmynsted> | Okay, I do not know why this is bothering me but . . . I have a String. It may contain a '/' as its last character. I am testing for this by reversing the string and pattern matching '/': _ -> |
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| 16:50:12 | <texasmynsted> | This seems bad because while the strings will never be infinite, reverse feels like an unnecessary expense. Is there a better way? |
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| 16:51:05 | <kuribas> | texasmynsted: nope |
| 16:51:10 | <geekosaur> | last str == '/' ? |
| 16:51:11 | <kuribas> | or don't use String, use Text |
| 16:51:31 | <monsterchrom> | texasmynsted: http://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/cont.xhtml |
| 16:51:34 | <koala_man> | is it a directory? if so, don't bother and just concatenate to form foo//bar |
| 16:51:35 | <kuribas> | there is no way to avoid traversing the String |
| 16:52:04 | <monsterchrom> | "Extra credit for getting it to run on an Apple II or a Commodore 64" >:) |
| 16:52:26 | <texasmynsted> | koala_man: It is a URL, but I only need to add index.html if the last character is / |
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| 16:53:45 | <koala_man> | if it's a URL you should probably use a proper URL parser. Consider e.g. https://example.com/?id=42#bar |
| 16:54:12 | <texasmynsted> | `last` requires that the string be non-empty. Pattern matching would avoid that restriction. |
| 16:55:24 | <texasmynsted> | I will look for a URL parser. |
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| 16:56:23 | <dexterfoo> | never mind, it seems that hSeek detects the filesystem of the handle and gives "invalid argument" error when trying to seek past the maximum supported file size |
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| 16:57:02 | <texasmynsted> | The final output has to be String, so using Text to preform the test seems like I may pay more |
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| 16:59:46 | <monsterchrom> | Use both null and last if the string may be empty. Or write your own recursion. |
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| 17:02:13 | <tomjaguarpaw> | [__1] skipping: base-4.14.0.0 (has the same characteristics that caused the |
| 17:02:14 | <tomjaguarpaw> | previous version to fail: excluded by constraint '^>=4.13.0' from |
| 17:02:14 | <tomjaguarpaw> | 'haddock-api') |
| 17:02:34 | <tomjaguarpaw> | ^^ does that make sense to anyone? ^>=4.13.0 surely matches 4.14.0 doesn't it? |
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| 17:04:53 | <texasmynsted> | thank you monsterchrom |
| 17:04:59 | <geekosaur> | I thought the leading ^ meant it didn't (makes it follow PVP, so 4.14 is out of scope for 4.13) |
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| 17:05:54 | <texasmynsted> | if the string is empty it does not require manipulation, so the _anythingElse part of the pattern match is fine |
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| 17:09:37 | <tomjaguarpaw> | geekosaur: Oh, is that what it means |
| 17:09:39 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Thanks |
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| 17:17:10 | hackage | phonetic-languages-plus 0.1.0.0 - Some common shared between different packages functions. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-plus-0.1.0.0 (OleksandrZhabenko) |
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| 17:24:45 | <Kingpatzer> | hey folks, quick (i hope) and likely dumb question: I just |
| 17:24:45 | <Kingpatzer> | started worknig through cis194 and I would like to print |
| 17:24:45 | <Kingpatzer> | out the results from the "testWhatWentWrong" function as |
| 17:24:45 | <Kingpatzer> | one string per line. Some google fu got me to "mapM_ |
| 17:24:45 | <Kingpatzer> | putStrLn [String]" but that fails with an error because |
| 17:24:45 | <Kingpatzer> | testWhatWentWrong returns IO [String] and not plain |
| 17:24:45 | <Kingpatzer> | [String]. Anyway I can accomplish just printnig each |
| 17:24:46 | <Kingpatzer> | string on it's own line? |
| 17:24:56 | <Kingpatzer> | oops, sorry about that, pasting didn't work as intended |
| 17:24:58 | <ghoulguy> | Kingpatzer: please do not paste into your IRC client |
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| 17:26:36 | <tomsmeding> | Kingpatzer: 'testWhatWentWrong >>= mapM_ putStrLn' perhaps? or using do-notation, 'do result <- testWhatWentWrong ; mapM_ putStrLn result' |
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| 17:27:53 | <Kingpatzer> | that worked tomsmeding. thanks! |
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| 17:32:44 | <tomsmeding> | Kingpatzer: both mean exactly the same thing; >>= is what do-notation "desugars" (converts) to intermally |
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| 17:33:14 | <tomsmeding> | you use >>= to "continue" your program having access to the value within the monad, here IO |
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| 17:33:50 | <tomsmeding> | (hooks in nicely in the discussion of continuations just now...) |
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| 17:34:57 | <monsterchrom> | For IO we write in callback style. Do you "extract the answer". Supply a callback that receives the answer. |
| 17:35:14 | <monsterchrom> | or even s/that receives/to receive/ |
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| 17:35:35 | <monsterchrom> | http://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/IO.xhtml |
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| 17:35:55 | <monsterchrom> | OTOH CIS194 would not have you dabble in IO without first teaching you this. |
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| 17:36:52 | <monsterchrom> | It's pure effectless functional programming for the first 70% at least. |
| 17:37:17 | <tomsmeding> | as it should be |
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| 17:41:09 | hackage | uniqueness-periods-vector-general 0.5.2.0 - Some kind of the optimization approach to data inner structure. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/uniqueness-periods-vector-general-0.5.2.0 (OleksandrZhabenko) |
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| 17:50:00 | <mantovani> | exit |
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| 18:03:10 | hackage | uniqueness-periods-vector-examples 0.14.0.0 - Usage examples for the uniqueness-periods-vector series of packages https://hackage.haskell.org/package/uniqueness-periods-vector-examples-0.14.0.0 (OleksandrZhabenko) |
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| 18:19:40 | hackage | uniqueness-periods-vector-examples 0.14.1.0 - Usage examples for the uniqueness-periods-vector series of packages https://hackage.haskell.org/package/uniqueness-periods-vector-examples-0.14.1.0 (OleksandrZhabenko) |
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| 19:10:29 | <joel135> | What are the most important haskell libraries to know? |
| 19:11:25 | <maerwald> | unix |
| 19:11:43 | <yushyin> | base? |
| 19:13:03 | <geekosaur> | mtl? |
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| 19:14:59 | <monsterchrom> | What kind of question is that? |
| 19:15:30 | <monsterchrom> | If it's for a job interview tomorrow, it's already too late. |
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| 19:15:43 | <joel135> | I don't know if it was a good question. |
| 19:16:11 | <monsterchrom> | It is a poor question. Only exam crammers would need to know. |
| 19:16:15 | <maerwald> | It's something you'd say on a dating app if you matched with a haskeller... so to get their attention |
| 19:16:43 | <dsal> | joel135: The most important haskell libraries to know are the ones that you use the most when building code to do the thing you care about the most. |
| 19:16:57 | <monsterchrom> | Yeah, that. |
| 19:17:00 | <joel135> | I get that tautology. |
| 19:17:26 | <maerwald> | the standad lib base isn't that great, but you'll have to use it anyway |
| 19:17:39 | <monsterchrom> | The people I know are the people known to everyone who knows everyone I know. |
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| 19:19:15 | <dsal> | I like sqlite-simple. I use it a bunch. And optparse-applicative, though I'm open to trying some new ones. |
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| 19:20:09 | hackage | phonetic-languages-vector 0.1.0.0 - A generalization of the functionality of the uniqueness-periods-vector package. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-vector-0.1.0.0 (OleksandrZhabenko) |
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| 19:21:09 | hackage | polysemy-kvstore-jsonfile 0.1.0.0 - Run a KVStore as a single json file in polysemy. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/polysemy-kvstore-jsonfile-0.1.0.0 (locallycompact) |
| 19:21:39 | × | Franciman quits (~francesco@host-79-36-167-172.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 19:21:39 | <dsal> | I'm seeing more polysemy stuff. Still not used it, and the last news I read about it made it seem like a hoax. |
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| 19:21:58 | <maerwald> | it's slow |
| 19:22:45 | <maerwald> | just use IO |
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| 19:23:02 | <dsal> | Yeah, there was initially magic about how it erased all the overhead at compile time and made extremely efficient code and then later... that didn't happen. |
| 19:23:42 | <maerwald> | even if it did trigger the right optimistions, it's a fragile gamble, hence the eff approach from alexi |
| 19:24:22 | <maerwald> | but I don't even know if we will see that any time soon either |
| 19:25:05 | <monsterchrom> | That triggered the GHC proposal to add first-class continuations. |
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| 19:29:08 | <dsal> | joel135: Can you expand on the nature of your question a bit? |
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| 19:30:01 | <dsal> | My favorite "this library makes things way easier in Haskell than other languages" are STM, async, lens, megaparsec, etc... |
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| 19:31:00 | <dsal> | The amazonka stuff is pretty good. And conduit. |
| 19:31:48 | <joel135> | I have known about haskell for a long time, and have during this time learned a lot about the lambda calculus, but the haskell libraries are still as foreign to me as they were at the beginning. |
| 19:31:52 | <maerwald> | conduit is an example of an over-engineered API imo |
| 19:33:10 | <maerwald> | streamly seems much more idiomatic haskell, but it's a bit less polished |
| 19:33:34 | <maerwald> | and a lot faster |
| 19:34:06 | <dsal> | I wasn't sure about conduit... It's served me pretty well, but yeah, I've not looked hard for something else. |
| 19:34:09 | <merijn> | I'd argue that streamly is both much more complex and much more over-engineered than conduit >.> |
| 19:34:18 | <sm[m]> | joel135: a good start is to get familiar with what's in base |
| 19:34:26 | <dsal> | I don't have experience with alternatives to conduit. |
| 19:34:39 | <merijn> | streamly's API is super complex and the use of MonadBase/MonadBaseControl is terrible, because those typeclasses are terrible |
| 19:35:24 | <joel135> | I am tring out some posix functions right now; maybe it can be good to read through base at some level of detail later unless that's too big of a task. |
| 19:36:05 | <dsal> | joel135: It takes me some effort to study things for the sake of studying them. I have to put a need between myself and my learning goals most of the time. I've got a lot of pragmatic Haskell code for things I do. |
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| 19:37:29 | <dsal> | I was kind of annoyed that I couldn't find a pread implementation that worked when I was doing a thing that needed it. Then I found one, and the change required to use it was going to be too large to be worth it. |
| 19:37:29 | <joel135> | What does that mean? "put a need between myself and my learning goals" |
| 19:37:50 | <dsal> | I learn stuff by intending to use it to solve a real problem I have. |
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| 19:38:11 | <sm[m]> | joel135: to be clear, and echoing dsal: learning all of base is way overkill for starter projects. But you can at least skim the modules and you'll know where to look later |
| 19:38:23 | <dsal> | Or, at the very least, something like Advent of Code. |
| 19:38:35 | <Franciman> | Hi, I would like to implement the matrix protocol in haskell |
| 19:38:53 | <Franciman> | anybody likes the idea? |
| 19:38:57 | <dsal> | Yeah. There are *tons* of things I've "learned" in the sense of having seen before, but "Why would I ever need this?" Then one day realizing, "Holy crap, I need a way to do that thing!" |
| 19:40:33 | <sm[m]> | Franciman: great idea, please do. But first problem is a name - hmatrix is taken |
| 19:40:56 | <joel135> | Yes, maybe that is what I should rather do - find a good motivating project first. |
| 19:41:03 | <Franciman> | sm[m], I thought about this name: linearfunction |
| 19:41:07 | <Franciman> | but it's cringe |
| 19:41:12 | <monsterchrom> | hahaha |
| 19:41:14 | <sm[m]> | facepalm :) |
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| 19:42:14 | <dsal> | Franciman: I've never used Matrix, but I like implementing protocols. |
| 19:42:31 | <dsal> | Franciman: I've created a lot of projects just because I thought of a stupid name and had to build a project around it. |
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| 19:42:53 | <Franciman> | this is cool |
| 19:43:10 | hackage | polysemy-extra 0.1.0.0 - Run a KVStore as a filesystem in polysemy. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/polysemy-extra-0.1.0.0 (locallycompact) |
| 19:44:39 | hackage | phonetic-languages-common 0.1.0.0 - A generalization of the uniqueness-periods-vector-common package. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-common-0.1.0.0 (OleksandrZhabenko) |
| 19:44:41 | <dsal> | joel135: I do a lot of stuff on the commandline. Learning something like optparse-applicative is a prerequisite for doing anything kind of complicated. |
| 19:44:45 | <Franciman> | if we can lower the power of google by the means of matrix and haskell, it would be great |
| 19:45:21 | <dsal> | Is matrix an anti-google thing? |
| 19:45:42 | <Franciman> | it's a tool I guess, if we can use it as anti-google |
| 19:45:44 | <Franciman> | then yes |
| 19:45:48 | <Franciman> | otherwise no |
| 19:46:22 | <sm[m]> | it's a decentralising thing |
| 19:46:47 | <Franciman> | maybe it could be used for classrooms |
| 19:46:52 | <dsal> | joel135: One example of stuffing a bunch of junk into a small very useful (to me) project is https://github.com/dustin/waitforsocket -- I use it to tell when a machine is done rebooting or when a web server is working, or whether I have connectivity, etc... It has a few different parsers for stuff and some fun use of async. |
| 19:47:03 | <Franciman> | instead of damn mircosoft, zoom, google et al |
| 19:47:06 | <dsal> | I don't quite understand matrix vs. xmpp. I used to do a lot of stuff with xmpp |
| 19:47:28 | <Franciman> | eheh neither do I dsal, they are similar, but have different philosophies I guess |
| 19:47:39 | <dsal> | Oh, says it right there: "Matrix is really a decentralised conversation store rather than a messaging protocol." |
| 19:48:04 | <sm[m]> | some more discussion here dsal: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17064616 |
| 19:48:09 | <dsal> | The downside is I already use irc and discord and dumb work chat and Signal. |
| 19:48:36 | <dsal> | "The core Matrix team maintains bridges to Slack, IRC, XMPP and Gitter, and meanwhile the wider Matrix community provides bridges for Telegram, Discord, WhatsApp, Facebook, Hangouts, Signal and many more." -- maybe that's an upside? |
| 19:49:09 | <Franciman> | the problem is that I can't even implement irc protocol |
| 19:49:15 | <Franciman> | and matrix is harder ahah |
| 19:49:24 | <sm[m]> | yes, matrix is really good at bridging to other networks. I've used it as my IRC client for a good while now |
| 19:49:26 | <dsal> | Can't, or haven't? |
| 19:50:21 | <Franciman> | I tried, I failed |
| 19:50:23 | <joel135> | dsal: I'll take your waitforsocket as a small case study :) |
| 19:50:25 | <sm[m]> | I also participate in some gitter channels (IHP) |
| 19:50:35 | <Franciman> | man the world is full of chats |
| 19:50:51 | <dsal> | joel135: It's meant for inspiration. How to have a small goal and fill it with learnings. I've implemented that in like, four languages now. Haskell's worked the best. heh |
| 19:50:55 | <sm[m]> | slack of course doesn't want to be bridged |
| 19:51:52 | <dsal> | farn__: Failing is important. I've failed at just about everything I've tried. |
| 19:51:57 | <dsal> | er, Franciman damnit |
| 19:52:42 | <dsal> | I've eventually got a few things stable enough that they work pretty well and I don't want to change them. Someone filed a quite reasonable bug against my mqtt client I've not figured out how to deal with. (I'm guessing matrix can't be harder than mqtt). |
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| 19:53:52 | <Franciman> | true |
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| 20:03:37 | <texasmynsted> | I often am unable to reach this channel from Matrix by their bridge |
| 20:03:53 | <texasmynsted> | I gave up trying so using limechat now. |
| 20:03:56 | texasmynsted | shrug |
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| 20:10:10 | hackage | phonetic-languages-common 0.1.1.0 - A generalization of the uniqueness-periods-vector-common package. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-common-0.1.1.0 (OleksandrZhabenko) |
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| 20:15:39 | hackage | polysemy-path 0.0.1.0 - Polysemy versions of Path functions. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/polysemy-path-0.0.1.0 (locallycompact) |
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| 20:18:25 | <maerwald> | sm[m]: I used slack in weechat, but slack API seems to be unreliable, often diconnecting the client. And then the feature creep doesn't translate well to terminal |
| 20:18:58 | <maerwald> | like ppl post 200 LOC of some code and it messes up your entire terminal |
| 20:19:47 | <dminuoso> | indeed, slack in weechat is a horrid experience |
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| 20:21:28 | <jjhoo> | slack... that thing that doesn't seem to handle formatting ```if this block is too long``` for an outgoing webhook (legacy thing, maybe things are better with slack apps) |
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| 20:27:10 | hackage | phonetic-languages-general 0.1.0.0 - A generalization of the uniqueness-periods-vector-general functionality. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-general-0.1.0.0 (OleksandrZhabenko) |
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| 20:52:47 | <sm[m]> | texasmynsted: strange, I access it 24/7 |
| 20:53:10 | hackage | phonetic-languages-properties 0.1.0.0 - A generalization of the uniqueness-periods-vector-properties package. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-properties-0.1.0.0 (OleksandrZhabenko) |
| 20:53:12 | texasmynsted | shrug |
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| 20:54:17 | <texasmynsted> | I put a few days/weeks as a limit for troubleshooting. After that I figured it would be faster to use something else. |
| 20:54:30 | <texasmynsted> | I am fine with limechat for now |
| 20:55:13 | <texasmynsted> | It worked okay for me for some channels, but not others. I think the more traffic the channel, the less likely it worked for me over the bridge. |
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| 21:09:39 | hackage | predicate-typed 0.7.4.1 - Predicates, Refinement types and Dsl https://hackage.haskell.org/package/predicate-typed-0.7.4.1 (gbwey) |
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| 21:29:43 | <taio> | A question about Haskell's terms: Type constructors are functions at the type level that return a type when fully applied. But how are such structures called ?: Num :: * -> Constraint |
| 21:29:56 | <taio> | A type class constructor or a constraint constructor? |
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| 21:30:48 | <icebreaker> | join ##trading |
| 21:31:15 | <icebreaker> | sorry guys 😅 |
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| 21:43:12 | <monsterchrom> | Num is a type class. |
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| 21:43:34 | <monsterchrom> | This shows that generally if you see Foo :: * -> Constraint, Foo is a type class. |
| 21:44:16 | <monsterchrom> | Well OK maybe I forgot equality constraints, which you wouldn't call that. |
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| 21:52:44 | <monsterchrom> | Amazing, my program that uses HXT written in 2015 still builds today. |
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| 21:53:02 | <jbox> | I've been trying to get a haskell dev environment set up |
| 21:53:12 | <jbox> | should I use ghcup or stack to install everything? |
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| 21:53:58 | <maerwald> | are you a beginner? What platform? |
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| 21:54:40 | <taio> | Thanks for the answer. I know Num is a type class. my question was about what to call this function, e.g. a constraint constructor? |
| 21:55:32 | <dolio> | You should only call it a constructor if it makes sense to match on it with e.g. a type class. |
| 21:56:42 | <jbox> | maerwald: I'm a beginner. I'm trying to get a dev environment set up so I can use xmonad. I'm on Arch Linux |
| 21:56:43 | <monsterchrom> | :) |
| 21:56:56 | <monsterchrom> | I like dolio's criterion. |
| 21:57:44 | <maerwald> | jbox: it seems xmonad README suggest to use cabal, so I'd go with ghcup + cabal. But it also supports stack |
| 21:57:46 | <byorgey> | jbox: if you just want to use xmonad, probably easiest to use ghcup, then install xmonad with cabal |
| 21:58:33 | <byorgey> | jbox: also, you should feel free to hang out and ask questions in #xmonad too |
| 21:58:39 | <jbox> | I tried installing xmonad with my distro package managers first, and it worked out of the box, but it gave me problems when I tried to configure anything, so I'm doing it the "right" way now haha |
| 21:58:51 | <jbox> | byorgey: gotcha, thank you :) |
| 21:58:54 | <jbox> | maerwald: thank you :) |
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| 22:06:09 | hackage | phonetic-languages-examples 0.1.0.0 - A generalization of the uniqueness-periods-vector-examples functionality. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-examples-0.1.0.0 (OleksandrZhabenko) |
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| 22:11:17 | <flux41> | does anyone have a good beginner reference for kinds |
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| 22:11:27 | <flux41> | been reading through 5-6 tutorials with no success |
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| 22:14:52 | <DigitalKiWicked> | does https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Xmonad not work? |
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| 22:19:57 | <jbox> | whenever I try to launch stack or xmonad, I get an error like "error while loading shared libraries: libHSbase-4.14.1.0-ghc8.10.2.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory" |
| 22:20:05 | <jbox> | and the .so file is different each time |
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| 22:25:06 | <maerwald> | jbox: do you have a GHC installed via pacman? |
| 22:26:40 | <jbox> | maerwald: I have ghc 8.8.4 isntalled via ghcup |
| 22:27:03 | <maerwald> | why is something picking ghc-8.10.2 then |
| 22:27:14 | <jbox> | oh, I also have it installed through pacman LOL |
| 22:27:16 | <jbox> | thank you |
| 22:27:22 | <maerwald> | uninstall that |
| 22:27:45 | <maerwald> | also, you can tell cabal which ghc to use: cabal build -w ghc-8.8.4 |
| 22:28:14 | <jbox> | ghc is required by xmonad. Should I not install xmonad via pacman either? |
| 22:28:24 | <jbox> | I haven't even built anything yet hahaha |
| 22:28:34 | <jbox> | I've screwed this up so bad |
| 22:28:37 | <maerwald> | I'd not install anything haskell-ish via pacman |
| 22:28:46 | <sm[m]> | flux41: kinds aren't a beginner topic I think |
| 22:30:06 | <jbox> | maerwald: gotcha, thank you |
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| 22:36:30 | <crestfallen> | hi a member was helping me with this program and wrote the evaluation to resolve to Nothing. So I'm a bit confused, because (with one or two possible mistakes) I thought the evaluation would look something like this: https://termbin.com/2b34 |
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| 22:38:50 | <crestfallen> | I believe I have errors on lines 2 and/or 3: too many or too few Add 's .. |
| 22:39:17 | <crestfallen> | please critique |
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| 22:42:20 | <crestfallen> | yeah I guess the 2 Just constructors in the left branch on line 4 are also wrong |
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| 22:49:05 | <crestfallen> | ok I think the member wrote two different evaluations; one with map for Maybe and one for Traversable |
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| 22:51:20 | <crestfallen> | no, actually thoroughly baffled still.. |
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| 22:52:07 | <crestfallen> | this is probably the correct evaluation: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/7TIQdWo7 |
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| 23:03:32 | <crucify_me> | correction on line 4 of evaluation https://termbin.com/5r6r (guessing at this point) |
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| 23:18:39 | hackage | lentil 1.4.0.0 - frugal issue tracker https://hackage.haskell.org/package/lentil-1.4.0.0 (fffaaa) |
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| 23:38:40 | <jbox> | what should I do if I keep getting errors like "error while loading shared libraries: libHSxmonad-0.15-2PS2yVgZEOJ5LumuexxAMV-ghc8.10.2.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory" |
| 23:39:00 | <jbox> | I've installed xmonad and xmonad-contrib with cabal |
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| 23:40:25 | <jbox> | also, for some reason, I don't have ghc-pkg installed |
| 23:42:36 | <jbox> | oops, disregard my last |
| 23:43:46 | <jbox> | /usr/bin/ghc-pkg: line 11: /usr/lib/ghc-8.10.2/bin/ghc-pkg: No such file or directory |
| 23:43:49 | <jbox> | I'm so stumped |
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| 23:46:02 | <infinisil> | Well personally I'd try installing xmonad with Nix |
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| 23:46:28 | <infinisil> | Works on any distro, and pretty much guarantees no dynamic linker errors ever |
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| 23:47:41 | <hoppfull> | I'm starting an SDL2 window and I want to be able to interact with my program in ghci while it's running. Since SDL2 is a foreign C library with state, I suspect I need to start the application with forkOS and use an MVar to communicate with it. If anyone has experience with this and any bells are ringing like "oh don |
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| 23:48:00 | <hoppfull> | I'm starting an SDL2 window and I want to be able to interact with my program in ghci while it's running. Since SDL2 is a foreign C library with state, I suspect I need to start the application with forkOS and use an MVar to communicate with it. If anyone has experience with this and any bells are ringing like "oh don't forget to say your name |
| 23:48:00 | <hoppfull> | backwards" or something, please tell me |
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| 23:49:48 | <hoppfull> | sorry, that was formulated kind of rude, I didn't mean that you have to tell me, I'm just curious if anyone knows anything about this since it seems quite subtle |
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| 23:51:39 | <hoppfull> | Does a thread disappear after it has run its course? Or do I have to manually clean it up? |
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| 23:54:41 | <ghoulguy> | A GHC thread from forkIO doesn't need to be cleaned up. Once the ThreadId gets GC'd and the thread as completed it's done |
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| 23:55:41 | <hoppfull> | ghoulguy: thanks, I'm using forkOS though, I'm guessing it's the same |
| 23:55:48 | <ghoulguy> | yeah, same deal |
| 23:55:52 | <hoppfull> | cool |
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All times are in UTC on 2020-10-30.