Logs on 2020-10-31 (freenode/#haskell)
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| 00:15:39 | hackage | recursion 2.2.4.3 - A recursion schemes library for Haskell. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/recursion-2.2.4.3 (vmchale) |
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| 00:19:50 | <jbox> | I managed to fix the missing library |
| 00:20:05 | <jbox> | now I just need to fix where it can't find the XMonad lib |
| 00:20:11 | <jbox> | it errors on `import XMonad` |
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| 00:22:28 | <jbox> | sike, the library is still missing |
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| 00:26:12 | <infinisil> | Again, would be pretty easy to have that work with Nix, just sayin! |
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| 00:27:57 | <sm[m]> | jbox: often it's something like: need to prefix your command with "cabal exec --". Xmonad project should be explaining this stuff |
| 00:28:29 | <yushyin> | I'm pretty sure, cabal install xmonad works just as good, but _using_ the library with cabal v2-* is another matter |
| 00:28:59 | <jbox> | I'm running into different kinds of issues, so I'm not sure where I am in the "stack" persay. I don't know if it's an xmonad issue or a haskell issue |
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| 00:31:52 | <sm[m]> | jbox: understandable. It sounds like a typical 2020 Haskell tooling/packaging gotcha, and it's something the xmonad project should be explaining/supporting since it's really common. Just saying, nothing wrong with your question |
| 00:32:06 | <jbox> | sm[m]: thank you :) |
| 00:32:42 | <jbox> | I'm very thankful to be getting help in here and I hope I'm not being too annoying with my noob questions. I'd have given up if I didn't have all this help haha |
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| 00:32:53 | <yushyin> | https://github.com/xmonad/xmonad/issues/199#issuecomment-609433196 maybe relevant? |
| 00:34:23 | <yushyin> | I think so |
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| 00:35:29 | <sm[m]> | lord.. I knew about cabal v1 and v2, what's v3 ? |
| 00:35:40 | crucify_me | is now known as crestfallen |
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| 00:36:33 | <crestfallen> | hi another attempt: please critique the evaluation of the 'bb' program here. thanks: https://termbin.com/2b34 |
| 00:36:33 | <yushyin> | sm[m]: I think they meant cabal-install v3.x |
| 00:36:38 | <yushyin> | ^^ |
| 00:36:55 | <sm[m]> | I guess so |
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| 00:40:07 | <yushyin> | and yes, the xmonad project really should explain how to use xmonad with cabal v2-* oO |
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| 00:48:54 | <crestfallen> | man I think I was barred from the chatroom. sorry folks for any over-reliance on you. |
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| 00:53:38 | <DigitalKiWicked> | wat |
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| 02:48:47 | <emb> | Any suggestions on the fastest way to become fluent in Haskell? |
| 02:50:19 | <emb> | 📖📚📖📚 |
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| 02:50:57 | <ghoulguy> | emb, finding a project your interested in working on |
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| 02:51:03 | <ghoulguy> | you're* |
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| 02:51:34 | <emb> | How do yoi define "project"? |
| 02:51:41 | <emb> | *you |
| 02:51:52 | <emb> | Opensource? |
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| 02:52:14 | <ghoulguy> | Either a new program that does something you're interested in or modifying one that does something you're interested in |
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| 03:11:17 | lagothrix | is now known as Guest81375 |
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| 03:26:02 | <Just> | Hi there. I'm trying to get ghcide working with stack. Output for "stack ghc -- --version" says ghc is 8.8.4. It looks like hie only has up to 8.8.3. Should I downgrade stack's ghc version? |
| 03:26:57 | <ghoulguy> | Just, stack's GHC version is selected by the resolver you pick |
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| 07:34:00 | <int-e> | that's a quick release cycle. |
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| 08:27:09 | hackage | protocol-buffers 2.4.14 - Parse Google Protocol Buffer specifications https://hackage.haskell.org/package/protocol-buffers-2.4.14 (k_bx) |
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| 08:39:05 | <dminuoso> | Mmm, Im starting to think Im reinventing the wheel here. |
| 08:39:40 | <dminuoso> | Im writing a sort of TH clone for larger scale code generation, and currently Im engineering a sort of knowledge base to keep track and discover where some identifier was defined in. |
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| 08:40:08 | <dminuoso> | So I have `localReify :: String -> G ThingInfo` and `globalReify :: String -> G ThingInfo`, things like that |
| 08:40:26 | <dminuoso> | Does this already exist? Libraries to facilitate generating multiple connected modules from? |
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| 09:12:40 | hackage | polysemy-video 0.1.2.0 - https://hackage.haskell.org/package/polysemy-video-0.1.2.0 (locallycompact) |
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| 09:18:39 | hackage | semver 0.4.0 - Representation, manipulation, and de/serialisation of Semantic Versions. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/semver-0.4.0 (BrendanHay) |
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| 09:28:40 | hackage | semver 0.4.0.1 - Representation, manipulation, and de/serialisation of Semantic Versions. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/semver-0.4.0.1 (BrendanHay) |
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| 09:59:41 | <PerseusPlease> | very basic question, if I have a function type declaration like "convertOrError :: String -> String -> a" how can I get the type "a" as a string e.g. "Int" |
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| 10:01:14 | <Rembane> | PerseusPlease: I think that's a bit tricky, what's the thing you really want to solve? |
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| 10:02:48 | <PerseusPlease> | I'm reading a config using ConfigFile and have a string which I want to convert into appropriate types such as Int |
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| 10:03:59 | <PerseusPlease> | I could use "read" and have the default exception message, but it's rubbish, so I'd rather write a function that outputs a sensible exception including the type conversion that failed. |
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| 10:04:33 | <Rembane> | PerseusPlease: Got it, there's a better version here: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.14.0.0/docs/Text-Read.html#v:readMaybe |
| 10:04:45 | <Rembane> | PerseusPlease: It has another variant here: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.14.0.0/docs/Text-Read.html#v:readEither |
| 10:04:49 | <PerseusPlease> | Rembane, that's what I'm using. |
| 10:05:16 | <PerseusPlease> | I also saw that, but I actually want to throw an exception. |
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| 10:05:49 | <Rembane> | PerseusPlease: Why do you want to throw an exception? |
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| 10:06:26 | <PerseusPlease> | Why does anyone ever want to throw an exception, the program can't continue |
| 10:09:22 | <Rembane> | PerseusPlease: You can instead have a function that returns a Left with an error message if the parsing fails and if it succeeds you return a Right with the configuration record. |
| 10:09:43 | <PerseusPlease> | Rembane, sure. |
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| 10:10:32 | <PerseusPlease> | I think we're concentrating on the wrong bit. I would still have the problem of getting a message that included the type I was trying to convert |
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| 10:11:21 | <joel135> | You want to say something like (convertOrError "(20, 5, True)" "Unable to interpret the missile parameters")? |
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| 10:12:57 | <joel135> | And then the error message should say something like "E: Unable to interpret the missile parameters (expected (Integer, Integer, Bool))"? |
| 10:13:00 | <PerseusPlease> | joel135, well... convertOrError "port" "foo123" gives error "port is not Int" |
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| 10:15:51 | <PerseusPlease> | ^^ that probably needs an ":: Int" |
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| 10:17:55 | <joel135> | Did you see this? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/model-0.4.2/docs/Data-Model-Util.html#v:convertOrError |
| 10:25:23 | <PerseusPlease> | joel135, thanks. that is close to what I am looking for but a bit on the noisy side. |
| 10:27:04 | <PerseusPlease> | this isn't pretty but works "drop 6 $ show $ typeOf (Nothing :: Maybe Int)" |
| 10:27:59 | <joel135> | What do you import for that? |
| 10:28:10 | <PerseusPlease> | import Data.Typeable |
| 10:28:33 | <joel135> | nice |
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| 10:45:55 | <jil`> | hello |
| 10:46:32 | <simon> | hi |
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| 10:57:34 | <jil`> | I'm trying a code example from a book and I don't understand why I get an error in ghci when I try it. https://paste.debian.net/1169336/ |
| 10:57:59 | <jil`> | It has to do with the notation of the operator |
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| 10:58:36 | <jil`> | but do you see something wrong with fsum = foldr (+) 0 ? |
| 10:59:28 | <byorgey> | jil`: there's nothing wrong with the definition of fsum, the problem is 'fsum 1 2' |
| 10:59:36 | <byorgey> | fsum must be applied to a list |
| 10:59:57 | <byorgey> | so you could say 'fsum [1,2]' for example. |
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| 11:05:41 | <jil`> | I see . Thak you. |
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| 11:52:24 | <simon> | I'm trying to test a Servant API. I'm getting a type mismatch between 'Handler a' and 'ClientM a' following this tutorial: https://docs.servant.dev/en/stable/cookbook/testing/Testing.html#strategy-1-spin-up-a-server-create-a-client-make-some-requests -- my code and type error can be found here: https://gist.github.com/sshine/12ba219e94ea043aabf171b2918a1c07 |
| 11:54:51 | <simon> | so, when reasoning about this error myself, I'd have to agree with GHC that a Server is not a Client. so I'm not sure why the tutorial so freely uses 'runClientM (createUser 50001)' when 'createUser :: Integer -> Handler User'. I don't know if 'Handler' is server-specific, but at least it aliases to 'Server' and does not alias to 'ClientM'. |
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| 11:59:17 | <__monty__> | I'm not familiar with servant but I don't see a problem with your reasoning. |
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| 12:01:09 | <dminuoso> | simon: You're probably just confused about scoping here |
| 12:01:23 | <dminuoso> | simon: In the documentation example, there's two different createUser |
| 12:01:47 | <dminuoso> | Inside the code block you're looking at, there is: |
| 12:01:56 | <__monty__> | Ah, you're right, didn't see the local binding. |
| 12:02:04 | <dminuoso> | `let createUser = client (Proxy :: Proxy UserApi) ... runClientM (createUser 50001) (clientEnv port)` |
| 12:02:19 | <__monty__> | Not exactly stellar pedagogy of the docs maybe. |
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| 12:02:49 | <dminuoso> | Dunno, but if you copy and paste the examples as they are, they work just fine. |
| 12:02:55 | <dminuoso> | And the code comments make it clear too |
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| 12:03:13 | <dminuoso> | But if you think there's improvements to be made, make a PR? |
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| 12:06:46 | <__monty__> | Haven't looked into servant enough to have a well founded opinion. Imo, "the examples work when copied verbatim," shouldn't be the goal for tutorial-style docs. There could be great reasons for the apparent shadowing though, if server and client code are clearly separated it might be a good way to make it easy to find related code "on the other side." |
| 12:07:20 | <dminuoso> | Well, I think it's reasonable to expect a user to *read* the examples? |
| 12:07:26 | <dminuoso> | Rather than just skim |
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| 12:08:31 | <dminuoso> | Plus |
| 12:08:37 | <dminuoso> | This is deep inside the *testing* documentation |
| 12:08:55 | <__monty__> | Sure, but relying on careful reading and understanding of each line is wholly unnecessary. It's not like it's important the name is shadowed. |
| 12:10:10 | hackage | HUnit 1.6.1.0 - A unit testing framework for Haskell https://hackage.haskell.org/package/HUnit-1.6.1.0 (SimonHengel) |
| 12:10:21 | <dminuoso> | __monty__: At the beginning the documentation starts off with |
| 12:10:23 | <dminuoso> | "We’ll use servant-client to derive client functions and then send valid requests to our API, running in another thread. This is great for testing that our business logic is correctly implemented with only valid HTTP requests." |
| 12:10:37 | <dminuoso> | But anyway |
| 12:10:56 | <Uniaika> | servant-client is awesome |
| 12:11:07 | <simon> | dminuoso, d'oh. thanks. :) |
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| 12:12:08 | <dminuoso> | Overall, when writing servant code, you either end up shadowing names a lot, of you find yourself with very verbose naming |
| 12:12:14 | <dminuoso> | Since you might have: |
| 12:12:29 | <dminuoso> | createUser :: Proxy UserEndpoint |
| 12:12:30 | <__monty__> | Nothing wrong with verbosity in a 20 line example. |
| 12:12:34 | <dminuoso> | createUser :: ClientM ... |
| 12:12:37 | <dminuoso> | createUser :: Handler ... |
| 12:12:45 | <dminuoso> | createUser :: User -> IO ... |
| 12:13:17 | <__monty__> | You can even add a note "In a real app just shadow the names for sanity's sake." |
| 12:13:18 | <dminuoso> | __monty__: Sure, but the code style will reflect the authors opinion. |
| 12:13:43 | <dminuoso> | Dunno, I think when you're that far in, you shouldn't get confused by this |
| 12:13:45 | <dminuoso> | It's not the beginning |
| 12:13:58 | <dminuoso> | It's almost at the end of the documentation when its about testing |
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| 12:14:37 | <__monty__> | It's a cookbook it's not intended to be read front to back. So it's not at the end. It's exactly at the start if what you're looking for is how to test your business logic... |
| 12:14:49 | <dminuoso> | make a PR if you think its worthwhile changing |
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| 12:17:58 | <__monty__> | I've already said I don't know enough about servant to go changing their docs, there's plenty of docs to improve that I do feel like I have enough experience with to make good contributions. Like the GHC user guide and the cabal docs. |
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| 12:23:43 | <Athas> | Which exception does Haskell for SIGPIPE (the one that manifests as a "Broken pipe" error message)? |
| 12:24:35 | <dminuoso> | Athas: ResourceVanished |
| 12:25:11 | <Athas> | From GHC.IO.Exception? Makes sense. |
| 12:25:12 | <Athas> | Thanks. |
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| 13:24:40 | hackage | redis-io 1.1.0 - Yet another redis client. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/redis-io-1.1.0 (ToralfWittner) |
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| 13:30:10 | hackage | wai-predicates 1.0.0 - WAI request predicates https://hackage.haskell.org/package/wai-predicates-1.0.0 (ToralfWittner) |
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| 13:58:40 | hackage | polysemy-methodology 0.1.4.0 - Domain modelling algebra for polysemy https://hackage.haskell.org/package/polysemy-methodology-0.1.4.0 (locallycompact) |
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| 14:05:53 | <merijn> | CS writing question time: What's the right way to refer to "the property of being memory bound"? Memory boundedness? Any better suggestions? |
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| 14:09:43 | <jkaye[m]> | I think it's just "memory bound" |
| 14:09:46 | <jkaye[m]> | What's an example of how you'd want to use it? |
| 14:12:07 | <merijn> | jkaye[m]: "something is memory bound" and I need something more along the lines of "because of X being memory bound..." but that's very long and wordy in context. I'm not sure how I want to use it yet, I'm trying to figure out a non-awkward wording :p |
| 14:13:07 | <pjb> | merijn: X being memory bound is X being bloated. |
| 14:13:46 | <jkaye[m]> | Really? You believe there are no memory-bound tasks in the world? Stop trolling. |
| 14:14:12 | <pjb> | You can always trade time for space. |
| 14:14:16 | <jkaye[m]> | I do think that "memory bound" is probably the most succinct you're going to get, at least that I've heard that would be easily recognizable |
| 14:14:27 | <pjb> | Agreed. |
| 14:14:52 | <jkaye[m]> | Trading time for space is how you solve a memory-bound problem :) |
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| 14:23:32 | <merijn> | Eh, hard disagree |
| 14:23:38 | <merijn> | memory bound is about space |
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| 14:23:50 | <merijn> | It's whether you are bottle-necked by memory transfer speeds |
| 14:23:50 | <nshepperd2> | PSPACE is not equal to EXPSPACE, so i don't think you can always trade time for space |
| 14:24:30 | <merijn> | If you are bottle-necked by memory transfer speed you can't necessarily trade that for time, definitely not without making things worse in terms of performance |
| 14:25:03 | <merijn> | nshepperd2: That's talking about complexity anyway, and while complexity analysis is interesting, it's also mostly intellectual masturbation in terms of practical HPC :) |
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| 14:26:07 | <nshepperd2> | true, but i think it does suggest that there are problems that objectively take more space to solve than others |
| 14:26:33 | <merijn> | nshepperd2: I don't know PSPACE and EXPSPACE enough agree or disagree ;) |
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| 14:29:37 | <pjb> | merijn: performace is a relative term. if memory bound is a problem it means your space performace is bad. You need to take less space! And a way to do that, is to lose time to compress, or to recompute what is stored, etc. |
| 14:30:54 | <merijn> | eh, no |
| 14:31:10 | <merijn> | compute vs memory bound is about bottlenecks in roofline models |
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| 14:31:31 | <pjb> | I take memory bound here as meaning using too much memory. But it may be doing many memory exchanges. CPU bound vs memory-bus bound vs. I/O bound. |
| 14:31:36 | <merijn> | You can't solve being memory bound by "being slower and using less space", because then performance goes even lower |
| 14:32:07 | <merijn> | pjb: That's fine, but then you're taking memory bound to mean something different from literally everyone in HPC/performance oriented fields |
| 14:32:18 | <pjb> | In that case, you can up to a certain measure do some computation in the CPU (with registers) to avoid accessing the memory, but there's not much you can do in general. |
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| 14:33:12 | <merijn> | Anyway, this discussion is woefully unhelpful to my original question >.> |
| 14:33:31 | <pjb> | It's a good thing to be memory bound in a way… Look at the alternatives! If you put the data in secondary memory, then you can become I/O bound. Not necessarily better. |
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| 14:34:28 | <pjb> | perhaps you could shorten it as "unbalanced". As in "unbalanced architecture" where the processor is too powerfull compared to the memory bus? |
| 14:35:06 | <pjb> | or unbalanced as in lacking cache memory vs. main memory? |
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| 14:39:30 | nshepperd2 | . o O ("memory bound" is when your ROI of performance per $ of additional memory is > performance per $ of processors) |
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| 14:41:42 | <merijn> | nshepperd2: In HPC roofline modelling the machine is usually a given, so you try and identify where you're bottlenecked so you can deal with that. If your implementation's memory bandwidth usage is equal to the max bandwith of your hardware, you are memory bound and any optimisation of compute is pointless, since it can't speed anything up |
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| 14:42:06 | <nshepperd2> | makes sense |
| 14:42:21 | <merijn> | nshepperd2: If you're compute bound that means your implementation's FLOPS (traditionally, but that's a shitty metric for no floating point stuff) approaches theoretical peak FLOPS |
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| 14:43:56 | <merijn> | Although in parallel systems you also get stuff like occupancy and efficiency messing things up :p |
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| 14:44:14 | <pjb> | square[i]=f(i); loop(g(square[i])) can be optimized and lighten the memory load with loop(g(f(i))) if f(i) can be computed in the CPU. |
| 14:44:30 | <pjb> | Ie. remove temp variables, and let the compiler do its job. |
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| 15:26:40 | hackage | hinotify 0.4.1 - Haskell binding to inotify https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hinotify-0.4.1 (LennartKolmodin) |
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| 15:39:46 | <carter> | Howdy |
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| 15:40:13 | <carter> | @tell Merijn sup! |
| 15:40:13 | <lambdabot> | Consider it noted. |
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| 17:09:07 | <newbi> | hello, i have to instal WinGHCi for my course but everytime i download it on the internet i cant install it |
| 17:09:10 | <newbi> | can someone help |
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| 17:10:34 | <hc> | newbi: I'm not familiar with webghci, but if all you want is a running haskell compiler/interpreter on windows, you might try out stack |
| 17:10:52 | <hc> | https://docs.haskellstack.org/en/stable/README/ |
| 17:11:04 | <hc> | there is a direct link to a windows installer executable |
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| 17:12:59 | <newbi> | hc: thank you i will try it. is it new user friendly? i have to submit my homework in *.hs format |
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| 17:14:16 | <__monty__> | newbi: ghcup might be another option |
| 17:16:02 | <maerwald> | on windows it doesn't work natively, only in WSL |
| 17:17:37 | <newbi> | i installed Haskell GHCI already from their site. is stack IDE for Haskell? |
| 17:19:31 | <geekosaur> | I don't know of any IDEs as such, although various editors have extensions with Haskell support |
| 17:19:48 | <geekosaur> | in any case stack is a command line interface, not an IDE |
| 17:21:19 | <__monty__> | Ah, WinGHCi looks like a GUI for GHCi. newbi: None of the previous advice will help any. |
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| 17:21:43 | <__monty__> | newbi: When you say "their site" do you mean the google code archive? |
| 17:21:44 | <monsterchrom> | Finally, someone actually read the question. |
| 17:22:56 | <__monty__> | Oof, looks like pretty old software though. "Tested with GHC 6.10.1" |
| 17:23:04 | <hc> | newbi: no idea; it depends on your definition of 'user friendly' |
| 17:23:04 | <newbi> | thank you guys. I mean the haskell.org site. i downloaded everything using PowerShell |
| 17:23:05 | <merijn> | oof |
| 17:23:17 | <geekosaur> | I not only read the question, I went and asked google about it and got its github. but couldn't verify it's actually still maintained, notwithstanding what it claims |
| 17:23:30 | <geekosaur> | in any case it's not an IDE either |
| 17:23:37 | <geekosaur> | (which was also asked) |
| 17:23:46 | <newbi> | so, finally i did it. opened notepad and made a hello world .hs file, compiled it using ghc and ran in powershell |
| 17:23:54 | <geekosaur> | it's just a simplistic GUI over ghci |
| 17:23:55 | <__monty__> | newbi: I think I'd recommend just using `ghci` from a shell and skipping the GUI. |
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| 17:26:27 | <monsterchrom> | WinGHCI used to come with the Windows version of GHC. I haven't checked recently. Especially with how the GHC people no longer officially post a Windows version. |
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| 17:27:47 | <monsterchrom> | I like __monty__'s advice. |
| 17:27:50 | <newbi> | yea, teacher told us it should come installed with GHC but didnt. im just gonna stick with notepad++ and compile it in powershell. is this fine? |
| 17:27:55 | <davean> | monsterchrom: what do you mean? Theres windows versions of GHC released |
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| 17:29:08 | <monsterchrom> | Oops, they still do. Nevermind. |
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| 17:29:49 | <monsterchrom> | Ah, they quitted the installer part. |
| 17:30:01 | <merijn> | monsterchrom: And 32bit support on windows |
| 17:30:15 | <geekosaur> | i386 windows is gone, x86_64 is still there |
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| 17:30:35 | <merijn> | Not that anyone cares about 32bit anyway :p |
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| 17:31:10 | <merijn> | newbi: just running ghci in powershell will work fine, that's basically what WinGHCI did anyway :p |
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| 17:31:52 | <monsterchrom> | Still, you can't tell the average Windows-using student to simply take the tar.xz file and figure out what to do with it. |
| 17:32:12 | <geekosaur> | but apparently some course or other assumes winghci is still included? |
| 17:32:17 | <davean> | Are there still 32bit versions of windows available? |
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| 17:32:24 | <merijn> | monsterchrom: The recommended way is via chocolatey, which I personally wouldn't recommend anyway |
| 17:32:31 | <merijn> | davean: Not any supported ones |
| 17:32:45 | <merijn> | davean: The only Windows versions that are not EOL are 64bit only |
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| 17:33:08 | <monsterchrom> | And the chocolatey way may or may not give you WinGHCi. (I bet not.) |
| 17:33:11 | <merijn> | davean: Which is why I strongly advocated for dropping it when that the discussion was in #ghc |
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| 17:33:36 | <__monty__> | I suspect it's just a prof that's used to the GHC installed on lab and other uni computers. |
| 17:33:37 | <davean> | merijn: I thought there were still supported ones, but not for new installs. But none of those places *would* install GHC |
| 17:33:59 | <merijn> | Anyone whose big and legacy enough to still run 32bit machines clearly has plenty of money to pay for getting things working |
| 17:34:03 | <__monty__> | newbi: Compiling your code is fine. GHCi is an interpreter though, can be useful to try things out in. |
| 17:34:29 | <monsterchrom> | I want to point out the irony that no one knows what has really happened, and we are all talking wind. |
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| 17:34:42 | <merijn> | monsterchrom: hmm? |
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| 17:34:56 | <monsterchrom> | No one knows whether the asker is using the GHC HQ tar.xz file or chocolatey or what. |
| 17:35:37 | <monsterchrom> | No one knows which version, is it 8.10.x or 7.4.x or 6.10.x or what. |
| 17:35:53 | <monsterchrom> | No one knows what the asker has really tried or not tried. |
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| 17:36:06 | <merijn> | monsterchrom: I think that's separate from the GHC 32bit windows discussion, though :p |
| 17:36:29 | <monsterchrom> | No one knows whether the course instructor has shown using WinGHCi during class, or it's just the asker XY-problem it to "I think I need WinGHCi". |
| 17:36:50 | <newbi> | okay, sorry for not being clear. i installed chocolatey, yes. but it didnt come with WinGHCi, but our teacher uses it |
| 17:37:02 | <monsterchrom> | See? |
| 17:37:07 | <newbi> | she says we should get it with chocolatey |
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| 17:37:39 | <monsterchrom> | I haven't checked, but it is very likely newer GHC versions don't come with WinGHCi. Old versions did. |
| 17:37:43 | <newbi> | the course is discontinued probably in the new programme, so im probably the last gen learning Haskell |
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| 17:38:11 | <newbi> | im getting the hang of it now, thanks guys. |
| 17:39:00 | <__monty__> | That's too bad. |
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| 17:39:10 | <__monty__> | Consider yourself lucky ; ) |
| 17:39:31 | <monsterchrom> | But what __monty__ said. Don't worry about WinGHCi, it doesn't have important extra features. Use ghci directly. This won't affect the *.hs files you will have to hand in. |
| 17:40:01 | <newbi> | yea, it just looks easier the way she is using it |
| 17:40:11 | <newbi> | i bet logic programming will come in handy |
| 17:40:30 | <monsterchrom> | You will have to go through Window's "command prompt" though. |
| 17:40:48 | <__monty__> | I love prolog+haskell courses. Some of the most mind boggling : ) |
| 17:41:16 | <monsterchrom> | Oh, I just inflicted shfit/reset on my students yesterday in a similar course. |
| 17:41:18 | <__monty__> | GHCi doesn't run in powershell? (That's the newer windows terminal is it not?) |
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| 17:41:37 | <monsterchrom> | I haven't tried. I guess it works the same. |
| 17:42:56 | <monsterchrom> | The only thing I care on my Windows box right now is I want the downloading of AoE3DE to finish but I don't want to be a bandwidth hog (wrt my family) so how many more hours do I have to wait. :) |
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| 17:44:16 | <monsterchrom> | Especially in the context of: last night I already got like 80% of it, then suddenly they pushed out the Oct30 hotfix, so it reset to 0% and started from scratch. |
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| 17:44:59 | <merijn> | monsterchrom: Invest in better internet :p |
| 17:45:11 | <monsterchrom> | :) |
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| 17:46:25 | <davean> | monsterchrom: just how slow is your internet? |
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| 17:46:42 | <newbi> | okay i hope i wont be bothering you guys, i will have about dozen questions in a few hours. |
| 17:46:59 | <newbi> | i need to write negative numbers in braces? |
| 17:47:08 | <monsterchrom> | full speed is 25Mbps. I could use full speed and get it down in < 2 hours. But I'm nice, I'm using 10% of that. |
| 17:47:11 | <davean> | yes, to distinguish it from subtraction |
| 17:47:40 | <davean> | monsterchrom: no QoS? |
| 17:47:53 | <__monty__> | newbi: Not always per se but it's a good habit. |
| 17:47:54 | <monsterchrom> | No. |
| 17:48:07 | <newbi> | okay, and is there a function for absolute value? because when i name my function "abs" i get an error that it could be referred to other functions that i dont know how to even use |
| 17:48:23 | <monsterchrom> | > abs (-4) |
| 17:48:26 | <lambdabot> | 4 |
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| 17:49:18 | <newbi> | oh okay thanks, is there a way to override default functions |
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| 17:49:36 | <monsterchrom> | Yes, but do you have to? |
| 17:50:11 | <newbi> | no :) |
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| 17:52:20 | <__monty__> | monsterchrom: I wish LEDBAT was easy to use for scenarios like that. |
| 17:54:06 | <monsterchrom> | If the wikiepdia entry for that is to be believed, more like "actually available". |
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| 17:55:53 | <__monty__> | I mean, it's used by bittorrent clients, so there must be a foss implementation out there, right? |
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| 17:57:15 | <monsterchrom> | How do I convince the Steam client to use it? |
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| 17:58:45 | <__monty__> | Well now we get to my lamentation. |
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| 18:00:53 | <[exa]> | monsterchrom: you can switch the tcp congestion algorithm in kernel, I guess it can be done even for process groups |
| 18:01:17 | <[exa]> | (that is, if steam uses TCP) |
| 18:01:46 | <monsterchrom> | How do I switch the TCP congestion algorithm in the Windows kernel? Do I have to recompile the kernel? |
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| 18:08:26 | <[exa]> | monsterchrom: no idea. :] |
| 18:10:10 | <newbi> | whats with GHCi and tabs? what should i do? the functions still load but the errors are annoying |
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| 18:10:32 | <newbi> | i dont want all code to be in one line |
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| 18:10:47 | <monsterchrom> | use spaces. |
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| 18:16:28 | <tomsmeding> | perhaps the ghc error message for tabs should include a note that spaces are the alternative |
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| 18:16:49 | <tomsmeding> | this is not the first person I've seen who responds to the warning in question with "but I don't want my functions to be one-liners" |
| 18:17:03 | <tomsmeding> | s/error/warning/ |
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| 18:18:32 | <DigitalKiWicked> | i make all of my functions one line so i can run sort on the source files |
| 18:18:36 | <newbi> | it did print that i use spaces instead, i just wasnt used to it |
| 18:19:08 | <davean> | tabs are widly considered a problem in programming, though its really the mixingthat causes issues |
| 18:19:11 | <tomsmeding> | DigitalKiWicked: how do you handle the invesion of 'module' and 'import' lines ;) |
| 18:19:24 | <DigitalKiWicked> | copy paste |
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| 18:19:45 | <davean> | why not just use an inteligent sort? |
| 18:19:50 | <davean> | also, why do you want it sorted? |
| 18:19:55 | <DigitalKiWicked> | mono repo? pfft! mono file! |
| 18:21:11 | <tomsmeding> | makes me think of that APL co-defns compiler |
| 18:21:40 | <tomsmeding> | that compiles APL code for the GPU while running the compiler itself on the GPU, and its source has one function per line and is like ~200 lines long or something |
| 18:22:40 | <DigitalKiWicked> | davean: if i can sort it i don't have to think about what the order should be the program decides and also it's uniform and things are easier to find because it's ordered |
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| 18:23:52 | <DigitalKiWicked> | i do actually sort data types and lists and also the way i format lists is such that they're easier to sort... |
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| 18:24:17 | <tomsmeding> | also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13590065 |
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| 18:28:04 | <DigitalKiWicked> | https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/blob/5a05601013407fc755d1d0d4f6385a9c14b3125a/pkgs/tools/text/ocrmypdf/default.nix |
| 18:28:59 | <DigitalKiWicked> | ...most of that is how i want it i see some of it is not "right" |
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| 18:30:07 | <DigitalKiWicked> | where "easier to sort" implies everything is on a separate line |
| 18:30:28 | <DigitalKiWicked> | plz don't look at the first line of the file |
| 18:31:29 | tomsmeding | re-opens the just-closed tab to look at the first line |
| 18:31:48 | tomsmeding | smiles mischievously |
| 18:31:58 | <DigitalKiWicked> | i've tried but the reviewers get mad |
| 18:32:30 | <DigitalKiWicked> | BONUS! makes for cleaner git diffs |
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| 18:32:41 | <tomsmeding> | that _is_ a good advantage |
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| 19:00:46 | <texasmynsted> | Trying out fourmolu. What does this mean? "diff-friendly-import-export: false # 'false' uses Ormolu-style lists" I looked on the ormolu site and can't find what an ormolu style list is. |
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| 19:02:09 | <yushyin> | 'import Foo ( \n func1,' vs import 'import Foo \n ( func1,' |
| 19:02:20 | <yushyin> | -import |
| 19:03:07 | <yushyin> | as far as I could tell |
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| 19:06:38 | <texasmynsted> | oh. thank you |
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| 19:16:06 | <newbi> | is it better to use if else statements or just define a few function states |
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| 19:17:12 | <newbi> | e.g. if x == then smth or foo 0 = smth |
| 19:17:28 | <newbi> | if x == 0 * |
| 19:18:12 | <byorgey> | newbi: depends. Personally I try to avoid if-then-else whenever possible because the syntax/indentation is annoying |
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| 19:18:42 | <monsterchrom> | For a simple case like this, it's fine either way. |
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| 19:19:06 | <newbi> | do you know which case uses less resources |
| 19:19:16 | <maerwald> | multiwayif is slightly nicer |
| 19:19:17 | <monsterchrom> | Same resources. |
| 19:19:26 | <newbi> | thanks |
| 19:19:42 | <monsterchrom> | It is way too premature to worry about that. |
| 19:20:26 | <newbi> | yea, just curios. completed my assignment for this week, will hang out here for the next semester :) |
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| 19:52:40 | hackage | hOpenPGP 2.9.5 - native Haskell implementation of OpenPGP (RFC4880) https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hOpenPGP-2.9.5 (ClintAdams) |
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| 20:18:40 | hackage | pandoc-dhall-decoder 0.1.0.0 - Decodes pandoc to dhall. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/pandoc-dhall-decoder-0.1.0.0 (locallycompact) |
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| 21:01:09 | hackage | pandoc-dhall-decoder 0.1.0.1 - Decodes pandoc to dhall. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/pandoc-dhall-decoder-0.1.0.1 (locallycompact) |
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| 21:14:44 | <matthew-> | If a function has type of forall A. x -> A where x is some mono-type, it seems to me to be an indication of infinite recursion in the function - is this true, and is there a proof or a generalisation of such a thing? |
| 21:15:09 | <comerijn> | matthew-: As in "Int -> a"? |
| 21:15:16 | <matthew-> | yeah |
| 21:15:26 | <dolio> | Yeah, it indicates some sort of exception or non-termination. |
| 21:15:28 | <matthew-> | where "has a type" is really "is inferred to have type" |
| 21:15:42 | <comerijn> | matthew-: Sounds like you might be interested in "Theorems for Free!"/ |
| 21:16:11 | <matthew-> | ahh, that's a phrase I've passed over in the last few days, yes. |
| 21:16:13 | <comerijn> | matthew-: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.38.9875&rep=rep1&type=pdf |
| 21:16:18 | <matthew-> | thank you, I'll have a read |
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| 21:17:07 | <matthew-> | having just implemented HM(X), I was astonished to see unbounded use of fix result of Int -> A |
| 21:17:20 | <matthew-> | and then it corrected itself when I added the base case... |
| 21:17:29 | <matthew-> | (and implemented "If"...) |
| 21:17:49 | <comerijn> | matthew-: Similarly sometimes people use Void to signal similar infinite recursion |
| 21:18:06 | <comerijn> | :t forever -- note the completely free 'b' here |
| 21:18:07 | <lambdabot> | Applicative f => f a -> f b |
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| 21:18:41 | <comerijn> | Void being "data Void" (or in older Haskell versions "data Void = Void Void" |
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| 21:18:44 | <comerijn> | ) |
| 21:18:58 | <hpc> | newtype |
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| 21:19:12 | <comerijn> | I just realised that's wrong, yeah >.> |
| 21:19:30 | <matthew-> | such a shame this implication is an if, and not an iff ;) |
| 21:19:33 | <comerijn> | Someone else can figure out what I meant to type :p |
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| 21:34:18 | <jackdk> | Is anyone aware of lenses that can fail noisily? I've been mucking around with profunctorish/arrowish decoders, and just noticed that `fromKey` might want to be `fromKey' :: (Failing f, Show k, Ixed m, Index m ~ k, IxValue m ~ v) => k -> LensLike f m a v a` https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/mWf23ECx/Failing.hs |
| 21:34:57 | <jackdk> | `Failing` is a hacky typeclass to abstract over `Maybe`, `Either` and `These`, depending on how noisy you want your error reporting; perhaps there is a better way |
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| 21:45:01 | hackage | compdoc-dhall-decoder 0.1.0.0 - Allows you to write FromDhall instances for Compdoc https://hackage.haskell.org/package/compdoc-dhall-decoder-0.1.0.0 (locallycompact) |
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| 22:00:30 | hackage | polysemy-methodology 0.1.5.0 - Domain modelling algebra for polysemy https://hackage.haskell.org/package/polysemy-methodology-0.1.5.0 (locallycompact) |
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| 23:03:22 | <sim590> | Why is using `is` with prisms prone to erreor as suggested by this answer here: https://stackoverflow.com/a/35253041 ? |
| 23:04:34 | <ghoulguy> | sim590, you'd have to ask that user why they thought that. |
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| 23:06:10 | <sim590> | ghoulguy: so you don't either see any reason why he'd think that. Because I can't think of a reason. |
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| 23:06:51 | <ghoulguy> | My guess is that some people read a blog post about "boolean blindness" and then just tried to apply it at every opportunity. That's just a guess though; I don't know what this author had in mind |
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| 23:07:15 | <dolio> | It's not error prone if you just want a yes/no answer, and never the underlying data. It is error prone to structure code that way (predicate + cast later) instead of pattern matching. |
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| 23:12:18 | <sim590> | Alright. Maybe that's it. In any case, I'm interested in havnig the free constructor checkers, so I don't have to worry about that too much. Thanks for you point of view! |
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| 23:20:05 | <dolio> | Also, I would not assume that ddarius is answering just because he read a blog post somewhere. |
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| 23:28:23 | <sim590> | dolio: Who's ddarius? |
| 23:29:03 | <dolio> | The person who answered the question. |
| 23:29:16 | <sim590> | Isn't he called Derek? |
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| 23:29:27 | <dolio> | ddarius is his irc handle. |
| 23:29:39 | <sim590> | oh. Didn't know you knew him ^^ |
| 23:29:40 | <dolio> | Although he hasn't been around in a while. |
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| 23:57:30 | hackage | agda2lagda 0.2020.11.1 - Translate .agda files into .lagda.tex files. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/agda2lagda-0.2020.11.1 (AndreasAbel) |
All times are in UTC on 2020-10-31.