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| 00:47:52 | <angerman> | Well we’ve had fat binaries before. But ghc (and some other compilers) are not naitive multitarget compilers. As such they can’t produce fat binaries by default. As such you’ll end up with only x86_64 or arm64 libraries. Which will become annoying when linking. |
| 00:48:20 | <angerman> | Unless of course you are very careful to always have the right architecture slices. |
| 00:51:33 | <jchia1> | Among things like (but not limited to) polysemy, freer, freer-simple, fused-effects, which ones are better in terms of ease-of-use and expressiveness? (I don't really care about performance.) |
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| 00:56:33 | <jchia1> | I just see that among free, freer-effects, fused-effects & polysemy, free has the most dependent packages on hackage. |
| 00:56:45 | <jchia1> | way more than the others |
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| 01:12:31 | <arahael> | Ah, I see, thanks angerman - it sounds like for x86_64, it'll be relatiely smooth, and if I play with the ARM-native builds, there's still some interim pains to overcome but it sounds pretty surmountable and there's progress. |
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| 03:14:51 | <jle`> | jchia1: so far i've been happy with tranformers and mtl |
| 03:15:23 | <jle`> | but it depends on the details of your usage |
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| 03:16:04 | <jchia1> | I just want to start trying out things like free & freer without wading too deep in theory. |
| 03:16:15 | <jchia1> | and without having to write a lot of code |
| 03:16:26 | <jchia1> | compared to doing the same thing with mtl |
| 03:17:13 | <jchia1> | jle`: Compared to writing mtl code that does the same thing |
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| 03:58:31 | hackage | rank2classes 1.4.1 - standard type constructor class hierarchy, only with methods of rank 2 types https://hackage.haskell.org/package/rank2classes-1.4.1 (MarioBlazevic) |
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| 04:09:00 | hackage | grammatical-parsers 0.5 - parsers that combine into grammars https://hackage.haskell.org/package/grammatical-parsers-0.5 (MarioBlazevic) |
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| 06:01:01 | hackage | tesla 0.3.0.1 - Tesla API client. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/tesla-0.3.0.1 (dustin) |
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| 06:03:17 | <GreeboSnabble> | Is there a functor like "flip" Const ? |
| 06:04:03 | <GreeboSnabble> | Basically newtype Const2 a b = Const2 {getConst2 :: b} |
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| 06:04:40 | <Axman6> | Tagged? |
| 06:05:57 | <Axman6> | @hoogle Tagged |
| 06:05:57 | <lambdabot> | module Data.Tagged |
| 06:05:57 | <lambdabot> | Data.Tagged newtype Tagged s b |
| 06:05:57 | <lambdabot> | Data.Tagged Tagged :: b -> Tagged s b |
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| 06:06:47 | <GreeboSnabble> | Thanks |
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| 06:24:00 | <Axman6> | :t _1 Tagged |
| 06:24:01 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 06:24:01 | <lambdabot> | Data constructor not in scope: Tagged :: a0 -> f b0 |
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| 06:24:12 | <Axman6> | % :t _1 Tagged |
| 06:24:13 | <yahb> | Axman6: ; <interactive>:1:4: error: Data constructor not in scope: Tagged :: a0 -> f b0 |
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| 06:24:56 | <Axman6> | % import Data.Tagged |
| 06:24:57 | <yahb> | Axman6: |
| 06:24:59 | <Axman6> | % :t _1 Tagged |
| 06:24:59 | <yahb> | Axman6: forall {k} {s1} {t} {b} {s2 :: k}. Field1 s1 t b b => s1 -> Tagged s2 t |
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| 06:27:43 | <bqv> | how do i construct a half-simple prism |
| 06:27:54 | <Axman6> | "half-simple"? |
| 06:28:26 | <bqv> | looking for an optic that's a prismatic getter but identity setter |
| 06:28:51 | <bqv> | i'd suggest the type but i'm not sure on it |
| 06:28:56 | <Axman6> | sounds like you're out to break some laws bucko |
| 06:28:58 | <jle`> | what operations would it support? |
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| 06:29:20 | <bqv> | well, the intention is to compose it with a lens i have already |
| 06:29:52 | <jle`> | what operations would you want the result of that composition to support? |
| 06:29:57 | <bqv> | that lens is a Lens (Maybe a) (Maybe b) (f (Maybe a)) (f (Maybe b)) |
| 06:30:27 | <bqv> | get -> failable retrieval |
| 06:30:38 | <bqv> | set <- Maybe value |
| 06:30:58 | <jle`> | get :: Thing' s a -> s -> Maybe a ? |
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| 06:31:07 | <jle`> | set :: ? |
| 06:31:56 | <bqv> | get :: Thing' s a -> s -> Maybe a, set :: Thing' s a -> Maybe a -> Thing' s a |
| 06:32:00 | <bqv> | (?) |
| 06:32:14 | <bqv> | wait |
| 06:32:36 | <jle`> | remember set for normal lenses is set :: Optic' s a -> a -> s -> s |
| 06:32:45 | <bqv> | yeah no, that's right. just, my current lens fits that, but the problem i'm trying to solve it getting it to behave sensibly with the ^? family of operations |
| 06:33:02 | <jle`> | do you have an example of a specific thing you want to do? |
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| 06:35:37 | <bqv> | so with my current lens, i'll call it "focus": if i do ``inhabited ^.. focus._Just`` i get a list of one value, if i do ``uninhabited ^.. focus._Just`` i get an empty list. That's the get behaviour i'm after. if i do ``inhabited & focus .~ Just v`` the value is set to v, and if i do ``inhabited & focus .~ Nothing`` the value is cleared. That's the set behaviour i'm after |
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| 06:36:16 | <bqv> | focus :: IndexedLens' k (w (Maybe (k, a))) (Maybe a) |
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| 06:39:19 | <bqv> | my current mental summary of what i want to acheive is lens composition of _Just, but only over the getter |
| 06:39:40 | <bqv> | that's an asymmetrical lens, but i think it's still a valid one |
| 06:39:49 | <bqv> | well, valid optic, at least |
| 06:40:03 | <c_wraith> | aren't you just describing exactly the behavior of at? |
| 06:40:18 | <bqv> | quite possibly, how would i use that here? |
| 06:40:34 | <c_wraith> | No idea, it was more that you can use it as a model for your type |
| 06:40:42 | <c_wraith> | > M.fromList [(1, "a"), (2, "q")] ^.. at 1 . _Just |
| 06:40:44 | <lambdabot> | ["a"] |
| 06:40:47 | <c_wraith> | > M.fromList [(1, "a"), (2, "q")] ^.. at 3 . _Just |
| 06:40:49 | <lambdabot> | [] |
| 06:41:05 | <c_wraith> | > M.fromList [(1, "a"), (2, "q")] & at 1 .~ Just "hi" |
| 06:41:07 | <lambdabot> | fromList [(1,"hi"),(2,"q")] |
| 06:41:11 | <c_wraith> | > M.fromList [(1, "a"), (2, "q")] & at 1 .~ Nothing |
| 06:41:12 | <lambdabot> | fromList [(2,"q")] |
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| 06:41:22 | <c_wraith> | I mean... that's the properties you want, right? |
| 06:41:39 | <bqv> | yes... |
| 06:41:45 | <c_wraith> | :t at |
| 06:41:46 | <lambdabot> | (At m, Functor f) => Index m -> (Maybe (IxValue m) -> f (Maybe (IxValue m))) -> m -> f m |
| 06:42:17 | <bqv> | :t at undefined |
| 06:42:18 | <lambdabot> | (At m, Functor f) => (Maybe (IxValue m) -> f (Maybe (IxValue m))) -> m -> f m |
| 06:42:44 | <c_wraith> | I mean, the class stuff is making that complicated for no reason |
| 06:43:02 | <c_wraith> | Strip that away, and you've got a type like Lens s t (Maybe a) (Maybe b) |
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| 06:44:05 | <c_wraith> | or Lens' s (Maybe a) if you can't change types |
| 06:45:14 | <bqv> | see the frustrating part is that my current lens has that type |
| 06:45:34 | <bqv> | but then if i try ``inhabited ^.. focus`` i get [Just val] instead of [val] |
| 06:45:50 | <bqv> | so i feel like there's some constraint applied one functor too high or something |
| 06:45:52 | <c_wraith> | Oh, you want to skip the _Just part? |
| 06:45:58 | <c_wraith> | That's not going to work |
| 06:46:06 | <bqv> | oh |
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| 06:47:53 | <c_wraith> | the problem there is that you can't have traversal-like behavior (skipping Nothing values with toListOf) at the same time as you have lens-like behavior (setting to Nothing to delete) |
| 06:48:27 | <c_wraith> | Nothing is either a target or it isn't. You can't have it both ways |
| 06:48:32 | <bqv> | ack, so this is logically impossible |
| 06:48:41 | <bqv> | half a day wasted.. |
| 06:48:52 | <bqv> | so I suppose my best plan would be to separate the getter and setter, then |
| 06:49:38 | <c_wraith> | Or just use _Just when needed. But yes, separating them is certainly attested. lens has both the Ix and At classes to handle the traversal and lens cases |
| 06:50:13 | <bqv> | well, the problem is that the indexedlens's index cell is a partial function |
| 06:50:24 | <bqv> | so in the situation that the value is Nothing, the index is undefined |
| 06:50:28 | <bqv> | i was trying to avoid that |
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| 06:56:31 | <bqv> | ok nevermind, got this to with with some other form of type abuse |
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| 06:58:01 | hackage | uniqueness-periods-vector-examples 0.14.4.0 - Usage examples for the uniqueness-periods-vector series of packages https://hackage.haskell.org/package/uniqueness-periods-vector-examples-0.14.4.0 (OleksandrZhabenko) |
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| 07:21:15 | <dsal> | That thing where you make a beautiful generic function for a bunch of things you're doing, then realize you only really need this generic form in ~one case. |
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| 07:29:27 | <MarcelineVQ> | dsal: every single time |
| 07:29:39 | <bqv> | that's the fun part |
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| 07:30:29 | <MarcelineVQ> | Functional programming lets me do all these amazing things [that I don't need to do]. |
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| 07:32:56 | <dsal> | Then you try to show your friends and they're like. eh. "No, but it's typesafe!" |
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| 07:35:04 | <dsal> | I'm a little sad about how much of my Haskell makes me feel good about how it works in a way that my friends can't appreciate. Not *clever* code, but just like, code that looks understandable, but works for a really satisfying reason. |
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| 07:38:49 | <MarcelineVQ> | I show my friends and they go "why is there a function in that type?" and I'm like.. "because I want to look more clever than I am" |
| 07:40:19 | <bqv> | lmao |
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| 07:55:32 | <bqv> | I find Haskell and rust are both refreshingly different, but with rust, while the borrow checker provides security, it feels ultimately restrictive, whereas haskell's type expressibility, while somewhat strict, feels ultimately freeing |
| 07:56:59 | <bqv> | Now I'm off to enable functionaldependencies and at least 5 other extensions |
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| 08:01:30 | hackage | ghc-check 0.5.0.3 - detect mismatches between compile-time and run-time versions of the ghc api https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ghc-check-0.5.0.3 (PepeIborra) |
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| 08:10:16 | <maerwald> | bqv: restrictive is good |
| 08:10:38 | <maerwald> | it gives you clear rules to reason about |
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| 08:11:08 | <maerwald> | after enabling a few advanced haskell extensions, I doubt most ppl are able to reason about what's going on anymore |
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| 08:11:27 | <bqv> | Heh |
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| 08:13:44 | <nshepperd> | well, restrictiveness is necessary for clear rules for reasoning but not sufficient imo |
| 08:15:04 | <maerwald> | Rust rejects a lot of perfectly well-formed memory-safe programs. It doesn't attemtp to be a memory safety checker. I think that's why it's so successful |
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| 08:16:09 | <maerwald> | It's a smart balance between ergonomics and complexity |
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| 08:48:40 | <dminuoso> | @quote monochrom dialectic |
| 08:48:40 | <lambdabot> | monochrom says: Programming is a dialectic class struggle between the author and the user. My freedom is your slavery. Your ignorance is my strength. |
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| 08:50:07 | <dminuoso> | Even Haskells type system is balanced between ergonomics and expressiveness. Once you start encoding logic into the type system, you very quickly get into dependent typing, and then you spend a lot more time convincing your compiler of seemingly obvious truths. |
| 08:50:49 | <maerwald> | IME haskellers tend to pick complex solutions a little more eagerly |
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| 08:51:04 | <dminuoso> | Not just them, that's a programmers disease. |
| 08:51:20 | <maerwald> | Go devs? :D |
| 08:51:49 | <dminuoso> | lispers will macro their way through trivial problems, rubyists will use reflection left and right, C++ folks will stack their logic into thick layers of template instantiation rules |
| 08:51:58 | <dminuoso> | All of them resorting to these tools rather quickly |
| 08:52:21 | <maerwald> | and that's all fun as long as it's a hobby |
| 08:52:34 | <dminuoso> | or until you depend on their hobby :p |
| 08:53:02 | <dminuoso> | Perhaps its in that sense go is actually a good language, because it just doesn't have any tools to go crazy. |
| 08:53:27 | <dminuoso> | It just forces a lot of boilerplate/manual labor on you, but it doesn't actually let you come up with meaningful abstractions |
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| 08:53:40 | <maerwald> | I could do go maybe 3 months a year. But any more, I'd get so bored that I'd just quit. |
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| 08:54:22 | <maerwald> | but fast compilation times is great |
| 08:54:23 | <dminuoso> | Well yeah, it's difficult to find the good balance, bringing us back to monochrom's quote above. |
| 08:54:29 | <maerwald> | something we'll probably never see |
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| 08:54:37 | <merijn> | maerwald: I think that depends where you look too |
| 08:54:45 | <dminuoso> | To be fair, if you write go-style code, Haskell compiles similarly fast |
| 08:54:56 | <merijn> | A lot of the people who write blogposts are writing them about the overcomplicated type level stuff |
| 08:55:04 | <merijn> | No one writes about "boring" Haskell |
| 08:55:06 | <dminuoso> | iow go is just fast to compile precisely because the language has barely any interesting semantics to speak of |
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| 08:55:23 | <maerwald> | merijn: and the basics are already quite expressive |
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| 08:55:52 | <maerwald> | dminuoso: but it enables rapid development |
| 08:55:57 | <merijn> | Extensions and type level stuff are like spices |
| 08:56:06 | <merijn> | A little can go a *long* way |
| 08:56:15 | <dminuoso> | maerwald: I think the "rapid development" is in a different sense. The main goal of go seems to be to hire people and train them for a language as fast as humanly possible. |
| 08:56:15 | <maerwald> | in haskell, I have one checkout per branch, because switching branches wastes about 30 minutes time at worst |
| 08:56:26 | <dminuoso> | Not to be highly productive in it |
| 08:57:00 | <dminuoso> | The lack of abstractions puts an upper limit to how far you can write software, it requires tremendous amounts of discipline. |
| 08:57:16 | <dminuoso> | Like, only very few C projects ever become large *and* maintainable |
| 08:57:26 | <dminuoso> | postgres is the only one that comes to mind, in fact |
| 08:57:38 | <merijn> | dminuoso: SQLite? |
| 08:57:44 | <dminuoso> | merijn: I have not seen their source code. |
| 08:58:15 | <merijn> | dminuoso: I've skimmed through it (not the amalgamation, of course) and it seems reasonable enough |
| 08:58:27 | <dminuoso> | merijn: Fair enough, did you also skim through postgres code? |
| 08:58:31 | <dminuoso> | Just for comparison? |
| 08:58:34 | <merijn> | No |
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| 09:00:04 | <dminuoso> | maerwald: But yeah, if you stray away from non-Haskell2010, hit a lot of inline pragmas, keep large modules, the GHC compilation times are bad. |
| 09:00:17 | <dminuoso> | How well does LSP work for these projects? |
| 09:00:28 | <dminuoso> | From my experience, it's blazing fast even for our largest project |
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| 09:01:24 | <merijn> | dminuoso: LSP worked well on my phd stuff before I broke the ghcide setup again >.> |
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| 09:02:05 | <merijn> | then again, I think that code is a stress test for editor tooling :p |
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| 09:02:29 | <merijn> | multiple components, internal libraries, C FFI, CAPI FFI, Template Haskell :p |
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| 09:04:12 | <maerwald> | And go has ccache style build cache |
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| 09:04:21 | <maerwald> | even caches tests |
| 09:04:34 | <maerwald> | dream on, haskellers :p |
| 09:06:58 | <asheshambasta> | https://gist.github.com/asheshambasta/3597d25f179fc2729286c4b02387f282#file-cabal-err-L9-L10 -- is cabal complaining about the http-types version mismatch? And if so, ther _is_ no mismatch? |
| 09:07:08 | <asheshambasta> | there* |
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| 09:08:40 | <merijn> | asheshambasta: There is a mismatch |
| 09:08:52 | <merijn> | Look at the letters after the version number |
| 09:09:17 | <asheshambasta> | I don't understand :-( |
| 09:09:24 | <merijn> | asheshambasta: The hash is different, which means it has two different plans for http-types |
| 09:09:26 | <dminuoso> | There's possibly a mismatch in build flags |
| 09:09:39 | <merijn> | asheshambasta: i.e. mismatch in either compilation flags or transitive dependencies |
| 09:09:48 | <dminuoso> | increase verbosity of cabal |
| 09:09:54 | <dminuoso> | 2 should be enough I think? |
| 09:10:36 | <asheshambasta> | So, the cabal file of prelude-polysemy (a package I'm trying to use as dependency), doesn't have any version bounds on http-types, nor does it have any flags. So I'd assume they're the same? |
| 09:10:48 | <dminuoso> | Increase verbosity of cabal |
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| 09:16:28 | <asheshambasta> | dminuoso: what should I be looking for in the output? I've tried `-v3` and `--minimize-conflict-set` |
| 09:17:20 | <dminuoso> | are you by any chance still using cabal v1-? |
| 09:17:26 | <asheshambasta> | it seems to start with a bunch of `trying` & `rejecting` outputs for packages that look unrelated to this issue (at the start of the output, and eventually outputting almost the same thing at the end) |
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| 09:17:45 | <asheshambasta> | dminuoso: no, I'm trying with `cabal new-repl ...` |
| 09:17:47 | <dminuoso> | well, gist the output |
| 09:18:04 | <dminuoso> | Just want to know whether cabal perhaps can tell why exactly its rejecting the packages |
| 09:18:52 | <dminuoso> | Also, what is prelude-polysemy? |
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| 09:19:37 | <asheshambasta> | https://gist.github.com/asheshambasta/3597d25f179fc2729286c4b02387f282#file-cabal-detailed-err (I've taken the last few lines which seemed relevant to me) |
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| 09:24:58 | <merijn> | Where is the prelude-polysemy cabal file? Because I don't see such a package anywhere |
| 09:25:21 | <dminuoso> | Arguably this is still a cabal diagnostics bug |
| 09:25:47 | <dminuoso> | It's frequently very hard to decipher why cabal cant find a build plan. In principle I understand that cabal can't tell you the exact reason because it's just a sat solver.. |
| 09:25:48 | <merijn> | dminuoso: Add it to milestone _|_ :p |
| 09:25:56 | <dminuoso> | But in this case.. |
| 09:26:01 | <dminuoso> | [__3] trying: servant-reflex-0.3.6/installed-9BB... (dependency of fht-api) |
| 09:26:07 | <dminuoso> | What does "servant-reflex-0.3.6/installed-9BB..." mean exactly? |
| 09:26:23 | <dminuoso> | Is that a vendored package? |
| 09:26:44 | <dminuoso> | that is, what does installed-XYZ mean here |
| 09:26:56 | <asheshambasta> | merijn: its a local dependency, I'll push it to GHub. |
| 09:27:08 | <merijn> | the XYZ (I'm guessing) is just the v2 hash |
| 09:27:26 | <merijn> | Not sure what installed means |
| 09:27:37 | <dminuoso> | [__4] rejecting: jsaddle-0.9.7.0/installed-ITO... (conflict: prelude-polysemy => http-types==0.12.3/installed-F2x..., jsaddle => http-types==0.12.3/installed-8Tx...) |
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| 09:27:46 | <dminuoso> | This should at least contain the information to see where the conflict arises from |
| 09:28:02 | <dminuoso> | mmm |
| 09:28:06 | <merijn> | dminuoso: Patches welcome ;) |
| 09:28:23 | <asheshambasta> | https://github.com/asheshambasta/prelude-polysemy/blob/master/prelude-polysemy.cabal |
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| 09:29:41 | <dminuoso> | asheshambasta: do you have any cabal.project / cabal.project.local file in use? |
| 09:29:47 | <dminuoso> | that would set additional constraints |
| 09:30:02 | <dminuoso> | Also, can you edit the previous gist to contain the *entire* output of cabal -v2 ...? |
| 09:30:46 | <asheshambasta> | in the package that depends on prelude-polysemy, yes, however, the .local files are empty (I need to add them to make a dante-method work), and the cabal.project only contains the paths to each subprojects. |
| 09:31:26 | <asheshambasta> | here's the project in its entirety: https://github.com/asheshambasta/flowerpower/tree/showcase/servant-reflex-dependency |
| 09:31:57 | <merijn> | Fascinatingly, http-types has a super small dependency list |
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| 09:35:54 | <dminuoso> | asheshambasta: can you supply the entire output of `cabal -v2 new-repl`? |
| 09:36:00 | → | tromp joins (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) |
| 09:36:03 | <dminuoso> | And perhaps crank up the verbosity to 3 |
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| 09:36:21 | <dminuoso> | (Dunno if that helps, but Im hopeful cabal will at *some* point talk about the constraints/build flags) |
| 09:36:54 | <dminuoso> | Also, you could move your cabal new store away, hopefully cabal wont talk about weird hashes but versions/build flags instead |
| 09:38:10 | <asheshambasta> | https://gist.github.com/asheshambasta/3597d25f179fc2729286c4b02387f282#file-cabal-full0-err |
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| 09:39:26 | <merijn> | oh...this is inside Nix |
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| 09:39:31 | <merijn> | Well, good luck, then :p |
| 09:39:40 | <dminuoso> | The nix part shouldnt matter |
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| 09:39:50 | <dminuoso> | asheshambasta: can you hide the cabal store for this? |
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| 09:40:09 | <dminuoso> | (just rename `.cabal/store/{ghc-version}` or just `.cabal/store`) |
| 09:40:16 | × | turion quits (~turion@2a02:810d:8abf:c4a8:e079:d816:8ca5:6a3c) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 09:41:02 | <merijn> | dminuoso: Is the store actually there in a nix-shell, though? |
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| 09:41:13 | <dminuoso> | merijn: the nix-shell doesn't sandbox you |
| 09:41:22 | <dminuoso> | It, roughly, just manipulates the PATH |
| 09:41:41 | <dminuoso> | But the cabal stuff, unless managed otherwise, is located by default at ~/.cabal |
| 09:41:52 | <dminuoso> | this is not a nix-build |
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| 09:42:29 | <asheshambasta> | https://gist.github.com/asheshambasta/3597d25f179fc2729286c4b02387f282#file-cabal-full1-err |
| 09:42:38 | <merijn> | Which version of cabal-install is this, btw? |
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| 09:43:01 | <dminuoso> | asheshambasta: did you rename the cabal store in your home directory? |
| 09:43:08 | <asheshambasta> | dminuoso: yeah |
| 09:43:18 | <dminuoso> | Ah |
| 09:43:34 | <dminuoso> | strange, it still seems to see them |
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| 09:43:49 | <asheshambasta> | merijn: 3.0.0.0 |
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| 09:45:03 | <dminuoso> | asheshambasta: can you also nuke/rename your dist-newstyle directory? |
| 09:46:44 | <dminuoso> | Warning: The package list for 'hackage.haskell.org' does not exist. Run 'cabal |
| 09:46:46 | <dminuoso> | update' to download it. |
| 09:46:52 | <dminuoso> | Ah, you should run `cabal v2-update` btw |
| 09:46:56 | <merijn> | oh, lol |
| 09:46:59 | <merijn> | dammit |
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| 09:47:18 | <merijn> | if that's it I'm gonna be mad for missing it |
| 09:47:28 | <dminuoso> | Well, on the initial problem it was not there |
| 09:47:37 | <dminuoso> | they renamed the store, so they have to redownload the index |
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| 09:47:47 | <dminuoso> | It was my mistake for not mentioning this |
| 09:47:53 | <dminuoso> | (In th emiddle of -v3 its easily missed) |
| 09:48:07 | <dminuoso> | But also rename/nuke your dist-newstyle |
| 09:48:17 | <dminuoso> | I found the dist-newstyle caches to be surprisingly brittle |
| 09:48:28 | × | mananamenos quits (~mananamen@84.122.202.215.dyn.user.ono.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 09:48:30 | <dminuoso> | I've had half a dozen "delete dist-newstyle and rebuild, and then it compiles" bugs already |
| 09:48:30 | hackage | casa-types 0.0.2 - Types for Casa https://hackage.haskell.org/package/casa-types-0.0.2 (MichaelSnoyman) |
| 09:48:32 | <dminuoso> | this week |
| 09:48:35 | <asheshambasta> | this is with dist* nuked: https://gist.github.com/asheshambasta/3597d25f179fc2729286c4b02387f282#file-cabal-full2-err |
| 09:48:51 | <merijn> | dminuoso: Really? I've not had that in...months, possibly years |
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| 09:49:25 | <dminuoso> | merijn: Yeah |
| 09:49:46 | <dminuoso> | merijn: Yesterday I had a much much worse bug |
| 09:50:07 | <maerwald> | just never switch branches, ever, then you have less cache bugs |
| 09:50:32 | <maerwald> | IME, stack was wores when switching branches though |
| 09:50:44 | <dminuoso> | merijn: bunch of servant endpoints. in the tests using servant-client I called endpoint A, then B, then A again. On the second A call it *hung* inside of servant mysteriously. |
| 09:50:47 | <dminuoso> | Here comes the real beauty now: |
| 09:51:10 | <dminuoso> | recompiling my library with -threaded, it worked again |
| 09:51:14 | <dminuoso> | removing -threaded, it still worked. |
| 09:51:43 | <dminuoso> | So I have a piece of software with a real quantum mechanical weirdness bug that I dont know whether its fixed |
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| 09:52:05 | <maerwald> | have you tried turning it on and off again? :D |
| 09:52:35 | <bqv> | Dipping my nose into arrows (again). I have a decent understanding, this time, but the static/dynamic example intrigues me. What precisely is different between such a static arrow and e.g. the state monad |
| 09:52:41 | <dminuoso> | Perhaps cabal 3.2 is just buggy and brittle? |
| 09:52:52 | <maerwald> | I'm running 3.4 rc since a while |
| 09:52:55 | <maerwald> | it's better |
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| 09:53:19 | <bqv> | dminuoso: test using nix, for hermeticity? |
| 09:53:31 | <dminuoso> | bqv: We have a large dependency footprint |
| 09:53:39 | <bqv> | Ah |
| 09:53:51 | <dminuoso> | After the nth conflict and fixing numerous haskell packages, I was just sick of it. |
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| 09:54:17 | <dminuoso> | Updating dependencies in such a scenario is just really painful |
| 09:54:31 | <dminuoso> | So we build with cabal v2-* instead |
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| 09:55:19 | <dminuoso> | asheshambasta: out of curiosity, can you share your cabal config? |
| 09:56:04 | <merijn> | dminuoso: eh |
| 09:56:12 | <merijn> | dminuoso: -threaded is a no-op for libraries |
| 09:57:07 | <dminuoso> | merijn: Isn't it great? |
| 09:57:09 | <merijn> | bqv: tbh, I'd consider Arrows pretty much obsolete and not really worth investing too much time in :) |
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| 09:57:26 | <dminuoso> | Yesterday was not good for my trust in cabal/ghc. |
| 09:57:29 | <bqv> | merijn: oh? Obsoleted by what? |
| 09:57:34 | <dminuoso> | bqv: profunctors |
| 09:57:37 | <dminuoso> | largely |
| 09:57:40 | <dminuoso> | and applicative |
| 09:57:40 | <merijn> | bqv: A mix of Applicative/Profunctor/Category |
| 09:57:46 | <bqv> | Huh, cool |
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| 09:58:11 | <dminuoso> | judging from the past 12 months, the only use case for arrow seems to be using some older frp libraries |
| 09:58:12 | <merijn> | bqv: basically, unlike Applicative/Monad which were useful in tons of places, Arrow just never turned out to be very useful |
| 09:58:34 | <bqv> | fair enough |
| 09:58:54 | <dminuoso> | asheshambasta: can you share the output of `ghc-pkg list` inside the nix-shell? |
| 09:59:02 | <merijn> | bqv: Consider this: Arrow predates Applicative by a few years, yet Applicative is *everywhere* and Arrow is not ;) |
| 09:59:13 | <dminuoso> | asheshambasta: Im a bit clueless, so this is just poking for information. |
| 09:59:25 | <bqv> | Wait it does? |
| 09:59:28 | <bqv> | Woe |
| 09:59:34 | <dminuoso> | Applicative is relatively new |
| 09:59:47 | <merijn> | bqv: The first Arrow paper is from 2000, the first Applicative paper is from 2004, iirc |
| 09:59:55 | <dminuoso> | (Though to be absolutely fair, there isnt a lot of purely applicative code) |
| 10:00:04 | <dminuoso> | most applicative code is just monadic in disguise |
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| 10:00:15 | <bqv> | Mm |
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| 10:00:42 | <dminuoso> | like, from a consumer perspective you might opt to use the applicative interface of some type, that happens to also be a monad |
| 10:00:50 | <dminuoso> | And coherence laws ensures they are the same for that |
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| 10:00:58 | <merijn> | bqv: Similarly, monadic IO didn't make it into Haskell until (I think?) the 5th revision of the report, something like 6 years into the language's existence |
| 10:01:06 | <dminuoso> | e.g. writing `Foo <$> parserA <*> parserB` is often just monadic |
| 10:01:13 | <asheshambasta> | dminuoso: https://gist.github.com/asheshambasta/3597d25f179fc2729286c4b02387f282#file-ghc-pkg_list-txt |
| 10:01:40 | <bqv> | merijn: ha, that's astonishing |
| 10:01:48 | <dminuoso> | asheshambasta: that looks very wrong. |
| 10:02:04 | <merijn> | bqv: but monadic IO and Applicative spread like wildfire, because they're objectively great at solving very common problems. Arrow was envisioned as doing the same, but it never really caught on practically |
| 10:02:14 | <dminuoso> | asheshambasta: ghc-pkg should be largely empty |
| 10:02:23 | <dminuoso> | No idea why cabal new-* even picks those up |
| 10:02:25 | <dminuoso> | (is that by design) |
| 10:02:36 | <dminuoso> | asheshambasta: if you empty that, your package will compile again |
| 10:02:56 | <merijn> | bqv: In the first versions of Haskell you had "main :: [IOResponse] -> [IORequest]", where you got a lazy list of IOResponse as input while you generated a lazy list of IORequests as output |
| 10:03:04 | <asheshambasta> | I ran this inside the nix-shell, did you mean that I run this outside? |
| 10:03:06 | <bqv> | I mean the part of arrows that was interesting was the static/dynamic thing that apparently saves on space complexity - but I think you can basically do that with a tuple anyway, its just syntax sugar |
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| 10:03:25 | <bqv> | merijn: sheesh |
| 10:04:08 | <merijn> | bqv: So you'd insert something like 'ReadFile "foo"' as result and that'd result in (eventually) appending 'FileRead "foo" {- data here -}' to the input, which is a massive pain to work with, obviously :p |
| 10:04:35 | <bqv> | Yeah :| |
| 10:04:43 | <merijn> | bqv: Well, the idea with Arrow was that you can "inspect" stuff without running any code, but Applicative gives you the same |
| 10:04:53 | <merijn> | :t (<*>) |
| 10:04:54 | <lambdabot> | Applicative f => f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b |
| 10:05:18 | <merijn> | bqv: Note that both arguments of <*> are 'f ?', so you can inspect the 'f' part of both sides |
| 10:05:22 | <merijn> | :t (>>=) |
| 10:05:23 | <lambdabot> | Monad m => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b |
| 10:05:55 | <merijn> | As opposed to >>= where the 'm' is on only the left side (you need to call a function and do stuff first, before you get an 'm' back) |
| 10:07:17 | <bqv> | Huh... that doesn't seem all that innovative |
| 10:08:12 | × | Maxdamantus quits (~Maxdamant@unaffiliated/maxdamantus) (Quit: brb) |
| 10:08:31 | <dminuoso> | asheshambasta: no |
| 10:08:59 | <merijn> | bqv: http://www.staff.city.ac.uk/~ross/papers/Applicative.pdf :) |
| 10:09:28 | <bqv> | Nah I get applicative, I just thought there was more to Arrow |
| 10:09:53 | <merijn> | bqv: I mean there is, but the typeclass definition ruins it by having 'arr' |
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| 10:09:55 | <merijn> | :t arr |
| 10:09:56 | <lambdabot> | Arrow a => (b -> c) -> a b c |
| 10:10:21 | <merijn> | bqv: Requiring the ability to lift arbitrary functions into the arrow ruins like half the interesting usecases |
| 10:10:29 | <bqv> | Heh |
| 10:11:03 | <merijn> | Because now anything that functions can't be turned into is ruled out |
| 10:11:25 | <merijn> | bqv: Category is in that sense more interesting |
| 10:11:33 | <merijn> | :t (Control.Category..) |
| 10:11:34 | <lambdabot> | forall k (cat :: k -> k -> *) (b :: k) (c :: k) (a :: k). Category cat => cat b c -> cat a b -> cat a c |
| 10:11:38 | <merijn> | oof |
| 10:11:46 | <merijn> | I forgot about the kind polymorphism |
| 10:11:54 | <bqv> | Ha |
| 10:11:58 | <merijn> | Pretend everything before the . is missing ;) |
| 10:12:03 | <bqv> | Very generic |
| 10:12:04 | <merijn> | :t Control.Category.id |
| 10:12:05 | <lambdabot> | forall k (cat :: k -> k -> *) (a :: k). Category cat => cat a a |
| 10:12:15 | <dminuoso> | asheshambasta: So ghc-pkg is the database for "available packages" |
| 10:12:23 | <dminuoso> | you can register packages there, etc |
| 10:12:37 | <dminuoso> | it's how manual ghc and cabal v1- worked |
| 10:12:39 | × | alp quits (~alp@2a01:e0a:58b:4920:7dab:bd6a:30b1:7abd) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 10:12:45 | <merijn> | so you have (simplified): 'id :: Category cat => cat a a' and '(.) :: Category cat => cat b c -> cat a b -> cat a c' |
| 10:13:10 | <dminuoso> | cabal v2- still uses this interface, but instead of maintaining this "global package database", cabal v2- generates a sort of transient package database based on its build plan, and tells ghc to use that instead. |
| 10:13:10 | <merijn> | bqv: That's like half the composition stuff of Arrow, without needing to support functions |
| 10:13:23 | <bqv> | Yeah, that makes sense |
| 10:13:37 | <dminuoso> | asheshambasta: it seems as if the build planning consults ghc-pkg, which I think is strange because you're using new-style |
| 10:13:40 | <merijn> | bqv: Do you know about contravariant functors? |
| 10:13:52 | <bqv> | Yeah, via profunctors |
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| 10:14:34 | <merijn> | bqv: Right, so profunctors are basically contravariant on one side and functors on the other side (which also mirrors a bunch of Arrow stuff, but again, without 'arr') |
| 10:15:06 | <merijn> | bqv: So you can get most (all?) of the functionality of Arrow by mixing Category + Profunctor, but now you don't have to deal with that PITA 'arr' |
| 10:15:14 | × | raichoo quits (~raichoo@213.240.178.58) (Quit: Lost terminal) |
| 10:15:32 | <bqv> | Neat. So it's totally deprecated |
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| 10:16:03 | <merijn> | Aside from some niche FRP libraries I don't think any modern/widely used library uses it |
| 10:16:23 | <dminuoso> | asheshambasta: out of curiosity, if you use v2-repl instead of new-repl, does it still give the same errors? |
| 10:16:47 | <bqv> | Heh |
| 10:17:54 | <asheshambasta> | dminuoso: seems like it, yeah |
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| 10:19:03 | <dminuoso> | asheshambasta: Seems like that's the regular behavior then |
| 10:19:09 | <dminuoso> | asheshambasta: do you use cabal v1- anywhere? |
| 10:21:32 | <dminuoso> | asheshambasta: Anyhow. As an immediate hotfix, nuke/rename your ~/.ghc/{version}/environments/ |
| 10:21:40 | <dminuoso> | And stop using cabal v1- I guess |
| 10:21:58 | <dminuoso> | It's possible there is a more eloquent hotfix, possibly via cabal.project.local where you specify a custom package.db |
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| 10:23:22 | <dminuoso> | Im not actually sure what the right thing is, whether this is a bug, etc. At the very least I'd perhaps file an issue on cabal for documentation. |
| 10:23:53 | <dminuoso> | (Naively it seems unreasonable for cabal v2-* to consider the ghc-pkg database for its build plan) |
| 10:24:06 | <dminuoso> | It does so in 3.2.0.0 as well, I checked. |
| 10:24:39 | <dminuoso> | Because by doing so, it's not really nix-style. cabal should *dictate* the package.db, not amend it. |
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| 10:25:27 | <merijn> | dminuoso: Actually, v2 *intentionally* disregards the package database |
| 10:25:35 | <dminuoso> | merijn: evidently not? |
| 10:25:39 | <merijn> | v1 used to consider it |
| 10:26:02 | <dminuoso> | `cabal v2-build` specifically interrogates ghc-pkg before build planning |
| 10:26:07 | <dminuoso> | Just run with -v3 in your projects and see |
| 10:26:32 | <merijn> | The fact that it consults it doesn't mean it's used for buildplan resolution |
| 10:27:32 | <asheshambasta> | dminuoso: should running `cabal v2-update` have an adverse effect on the system as a whole within `nix-shell`? |
| 10:27:40 | <dminuoso> | asheshambasta: yeah |
| 10:27:43 | <asheshambasta> | It seems like the packages that used to build earlier no longer build for me |
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| 10:27:55 | <dminuoso> | asheshambasta: two things: |
| 10:28:04 | <dminuoso> | a) that means you were lazy on your constraints |
| 10:28:11 | <dminuoso> | b) cabal told you how to restore to the old index state |
| 10:28:35 | <dminuoso> | (when you ran `cabal v2-update`) |
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| 10:29:03 | <asheshambasta> | dminuoso: what can be done to fix it? |
| 10:29:10 | <tomsmeding> | b) |
| 10:30:05 | <dminuoso> | merijn: you're right though, Im making an educated guess that this is the cause |
| 10:30:12 | <asheshambasta> | dminuoso: well, I ran `nix-shell --run 'cabal v2-update'` and then upon realising that this could cause issues, I killed it before it finished. It seems it had enough time to do some damage. |
| 10:30:32 | <dminuoso> | merijn: but the fact that ghc-pkgs happens to list two entries for http-types, and the fact that the solver keeps talking about "installed-" packages.. |
| 10:30:37 | <dminuoso> | It's an educated guess. |
| 10:30:55 | <asheshambasta> | dminuoso, tomsmeding: for `b`, what can be done? Cabal doesnt' seem to be telling me how to restore the old state. |
| 10:31:04 | <dminuoso> | asheshambasta: you should have let it run its course. |
| 10:31:18 | <dminuoso> | asheshambasta: try running it again, and see if cabal state is healthy enough to report how to revert it |
| 10:31:31 | <dminuoso> | if not, you have to bite the bullet and update your constraints |
| 10:31:37 | <dminuoso> | but, you should be doing this anyway :) |
| 10:31:49 | <asheshambasta> | or maybe this is unrelated though, I can run `nix-shell --run 'cabal new-repl' ` in other packages, just not in ~/.xmonad anymore (cannot find xmonad-contrib for some reason) |
| 10:32:41 | <asheshambasta> | What does cabal v2-update do exactly? It seems to be calling hackage to update some index, but within a nix environment, do you want it to talk to hackage directly? |
| 10:33:08 | <dminuoso> | asheshambasta: the nix-shell merely provides cabal-install the binary |
| 10:33:13 | <dminuoso> | beyond that, there's nothing nixy about it |
| 10:34:08 | <tomsmeding> | where does cabal even store the previous index states |
| 10:34:30 | <merijn> | tomsmeding: It doesn't, the index is append only |
| 10:34:37 | <merijn> | tomsmeding: So storing the previous index makes no sense |
| 10:34:55 | <merijn> | tomsmeding: You can just "ignore the last part of the index" and achieve the same effect |
| 10:35:03 | <tomsmeding> | makes sense |
| 10:35:09 | <dminuoso> | asheshambasta: so there's two thoughts here: |
| 10:35:21 | <merijn> | tomsmeding: In fact, that's literally what the index-state entry in cabal.project does :p |
| 10:35:33 | <merijn> | It simply skips all entries after a certain timestamp |
| 10:35:45 | <tomsmeding> | can't you then run the cabal update command with a random timestamp just before the concerned update command |
| 10:35:54 | <dminuoso> | asheshambasta: either you want nix, but then you have to use `nix` instead of `cabal-install`. Then you could use callCabal2nix with shellFor (giving you interactive shells) |
| 10:36:24 | <dminuoso> | asheshambasta: Or you want to do this with cabal. In order to get semi-deterministic builds, you have to either pin all versions - or if you're fine with automatic PVP conform updates, keep PVP conform package version constraints. |
| 10:36:42 | <dminuoso> | If you maintain clean version constraints, `cabal v2-update` is fine |
| 10:36:57 | <dminuoso> | (A good mind model could be to regularly run `cabal v2-update`, forcing yourself to adhere to proper constraints. |
| 10:37:06 | <dminuoso> | And if your dependencies suck in that regard, dont use brittle dependencies. |
| 10:37:52 | <bqv> | The nix shell might be a haskell shell, in which case all remote stores will be disabled in cabal |
| 10:38:02 | <dminuoso> | bqv: no |
| 10:38:14 | <dminuoso> | nix-shell merely sets up an environment with packages present. |
| 10:38:39 | <bqv> | dminuoso: and environment variables |
| 10:38:46 | <dminuoso> | Say `nix-shell -p ghc` ensures that you have a shell with a ghc in path. Roughly, nix-shell will synthesize a bin/ directory, containing symlinks to /nix/store |
| 10:38:56 | <dminuoso> | And put that bin/ directory onto your PATH |
| 10:39:05 | <dminuoso> | (There's a few more involved things, but roughly that's the extend of it) |
| 10:39:18 | <bqv> | Don't forget the environment variables. Enter a ghc shell, it sets NIX_GHC etc. |
| 10:39:28 | <dminuoso> | If you want *pinning*, you have to go the nix + callCabal2nix + shellFor route |
| 10:39:40 | <bqv> | Thats what I meant |
| 10:40:01 | <bqv> | Thats the only viable route for a haskell shell at this point |
| 10:40:20 | <bqv> | And since he has a shell.nix I assume its that |
| 10:40:21 | <dminuoso> | Dunno, Im quite happy with `nix-shell -p cabal-install haskell-language-server` |
| 10:40:31 | <dminuoso> | No, they are using this ^- |
| 10:40:34 | <dminuoso> | As am I |
| 10:40:36 | <bqv> | Oh, ok |
| 10:40:49 | <dminuoso> | (well I have a slightly more elaborate shell.nix) |
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| 10:42:00 | <bqv> | I only keep using nix because it's way easier to maintain modified dependency packages via nix, than via cabal, tbh |
| 10:42:25 | <bqv> | But that means installing in a v1-sandbox |
| 10:42:32 | <dminuoso> | v1? |
| 10:42:38 | <bqv> | Need sandbox |
| 10:42:38 | <dminuoso> | nix does not use cabal-install |
| 10:43:12 | <dminuoso> | in fact, sandboxes are long gone I think? |
| 10:43:24 | <bqv> | shellFor, install in v1-sandbox to pin deps to nix version, then v1-build outside nix continues to use them |
| 10:43:29 | <dminuoso> | ah |
| 10:43:30 | hackage | update-nix-fetchgit 0.2.4 - A program to update fetchgit values in Nix expressions https://hackage.haskell.org/package/update-nix-fetchgit-0.2.4 (jophish) |
| 10:43:34 | <dminuoso> | I see |
| 10:44:37 | <bqv> | Might be able to achieve the same with a freezefile or something, idk |
| 10:44:47 | <bqv> | Sandbox was just easier |
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| 10:46:13 | <dminuoso> | well, why sandbox at all? |
| 10:46:28 | <dminuoso> | I mean shellFor *does* effectively give you a sandbox |
| 10:46:47 | <dminuoso> | Id have to look at the implementation, but Id assume it just registers the nix versions with ghc-pkg |
| 10:46:53 | <dminuoso> | Such that you can just say `ghci` |
| 10:47:08 | <bqv> | oh, there was a reason… |
| 10:47:08 | <dminuoso> | Potentially even `cabal v2-repl` or `cabal v2-build |
| 10:47:39 | <bqv> | I can't remember now, but there was something that didn't work with that |
| 10:47:45 | <bqv> | Oh! |
| 10:47:51 | <bqv> | It was the libraries |
| 10:47:56 | <bqv> | Native libs |
| 10:48:01 | <bqv> | Something was funky |
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| 10:48:53 | <bqv> | Or was it cpphs |
| 10:49:03 | <bqv> | Cpphs wasn't finding anything |
| 10:49:32 | <bqv> | I dunno. In the end, taking nix at least partially out the picture made it all simpler |
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| 10:52:27 | <asheshambasta> | dminuoso: yeah, this kind of makes sense, and I've been lazy with version constraints. |
| 10:57:00 | <dminuoso> | Perhaps, cabal should receive commands to manage dependencies. That way, you could say `cabal add-depends-on=foo some-component`, and if no constraints are supplied, cabal could just pin it on whatever fits in the build plan. |
| 10:57:44 | <dminuoso> | this style of "add dependencies now and constraints later" always backfires |
| 10:57:46 | <dminuoso> | :p |
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| 11:11:17 | <asheshambasta> | dminuoso: yeah, and its something I still struggle with. A large part of it is also just being lazy. |
| 11:11:34 | <asheshambasta> | I have to get around to doing it more. |
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| 11:28:28 | <maerwald> | PVP and semver only work with good tooling and CI |
| 11:28:58 | <maerwald> | e.g. https://dependabot.com/rust/ |
| 11:29:46 | <merijn> | I just set the bound to ^>= the latest release whenever I add a dependency |
| 11:30:38 | <merijn> | maerwald: https://github.com/haskell-CI/hackage-matrix-builder/issues/72 https://github.com/haskell-CI/hackage-matrix-builder/issues/77 |
| 11:31:04 | <merijn> | The matrix builder is already pretty good, but it needs better notification tooling |
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| 11:31:19 | <maerwald> | dependabot does a bit more |
| 11:31:57 | <maerwald> | generally, dependency bounds are unmaintained, except for popular packages like aeson |
| 11:32:16 | <merijn> | dependabot probably also has more engineering manpower :p |
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| 11:41:27 | <maerwald> | merijn: do you know if the cabal file format has a formal grammar? |
| 11:41:55 | <merijn> | maerwald: https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/latest/buildinfo-fields-reference.html ? |
| 11:42:17 | <merijn> | So, "mostly" |
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| 11:45:18 | <maerwald> | https://github.com/dependabot/dependabot-core/issues/2745 |
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| 12:21:48 | <tomsmeding> | why does the readme at https://github.com/dependabot/dependabot-core list the languages that they support >=3 times, each time with a different order, and forgetting one in one of the places? |
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| 12:22:40 | <tomsmeding> | ah no they don't forget one, but the order point still stands |
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| 12:31:28 | <dminuoso> | Do you mean in the Setup? |
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| 12:33:30 | hackage | phonetic-languages-constaints 0.1.0.0 - Constraints to filter the needed permutations https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-constaints-0.1.0.0 (OleksandrZhabenko) |
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| 12:39:30 | hackage | deep-transformations 0.1 - Deep natural and unnatural tree transformations, including attribute grammars https://hackage.haskell.org/package/deep-transformations-0.1 (MarioBlazevic) |
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| 12:46:07 | <tomsmeding> | dminuoso: I do |
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| 12:46:25 | <tomsmeding> | and the "What's in this repo" section |
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| 12:53:22 | <xenon-> | hi. is there a built-in function that will do this? [[1,2,3],[10,20,30],[100,200,300]] => [1,10,100,2,20,200,3,30,300] |
| 12:53:33 | <merijn> | :t concat |
| 12:53:35 | <lambdabot> | Foldable t => t [a] -> [a] |
| 12:53:39 | <merijn> | :t mconcat |
| 12:53:41 | <lambdabot> | Monoid a => [a] -> a |
| 12:53:49 | <merijn> | oh, wait, interleaving |
| 12:53:50 | <merijn> | hmm |
| 12:53:54 | <xenon-> | yes |
| 12:54:05 | <merijn> | I think sequence does that, in obscure ways? |
| 12:54:14 | <merijn> | > sequence [[1,2,3],[10,20,30],[100,200,300]] |
| 12:54:16 | <lambdabot> | [[1,10,100],[1,10,200],[1,10,300],[1,20,100],[1,20,200],[1,20,300],[1,30,100... |
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| 12:54:34 | <merijn> | ah, hmm, what am I thinking off, then |
| 12:54:50 | <merijn> | :t transpose |
| 12:54:51 | <lambdabot> | [[a]] -> [[a]] |
| 12:54:58 | <merijn> | That one should work |
| 12:55:04 | <merijn> | > transpose [[1,2,3],[10,20,30],[100,200,300]] |
| 12:55:06 | <lambdabot> | [[1,10,100],[2,20,200],[3,30,300]] |
| 12:55:16 | <merijn> | Then you just gotta mconcat the result |
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| 12:57:38 | <xenon-> | > mconcat $ transpose [[1,2,3],[10,20,30],[100,200,300]] |
| 12:57:40 | <lambdabot> | [1,10,100,2,20,200,3,30,300] |
| 12:57:49 | <xenon-> | > concat $ transpose [[1,2,3],[10,20,30],[100,200,300]] |
| 12:57:51 | <lambdabot> | [1,10,100,2,20,200,3,30,300] |
| 12:58:30 | hackage | miv 0.4.6 - Vim plugin manager written in Haskell https://hackage.haskell.org/package/miv-0.4.6 (itchyny) |
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| 13:30:30 | hackage | minizinc-process 0.1.3.0 - A set of helpers to call minizinc models. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/minizinc-process-0.1.3.0 (LucasDiCioccio) |
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| 13:48:06 | <Iceland_jack> | hi |
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| 13:49:04 | <Uniaika> | heya Iceland_jack |
| 13:49:31 | <Iceland_jack> | Hope everone is fine |
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| 13:49:47 | <BatRumbata> | so far so good |
| 13:49:48 | <BatRumbata> | :D |
| 13:49:53 | <Iceland_jack> | > (drop <> take) 3 "hello" |
| 13:49:55 | <lambdabot> | "lohel" |
| 13:50:31 | <Iceland_jack> | I loved 'drop <> take' ever since I saw it here https://stackoverflow.com/questions/16378773/rotate-a-list-in-haskell |
| 13:50:42 | <hc> | heh, that's cool :) |
| 13:50:56 | <Iceland_jack> | I remember the first thing that got me really excited with Haskell was an instance of Semigroup (.. -> Ordering) |
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| 13:51:11 | <Uniaika> | yeah "drop <> take" is dope |
| 13:52:09 | <Iceland_jack> | A similar elaboration happens in http://www.cse.chalmers.se/~josefs/publications/svenningsson2015combining.pdf which is one of my all time favs |
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| 13:54:11 | <Iceland_jack> | |
| 13:54:11 | <Iceland_jack> | while |
| 13:54:11 | <Iceland_jack> | = from While |
| 13:54:11 | <Iceland_jack> | = \c -> from (While :$ to c) |
| 13:54:14 | <Iceland_jack> | = \c s -> from (While :$ to c :$ to s) |
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| 13:54:22 | <Iceland_jack> | = \c s i -> from (While :$ to c :$ to s :$ to i) |
| 13:54:22 | <Iceland_jack> | = \c s i -> from (While :$ Lam (to . c . from) :$ Lam (to . s . from) :$ to i) |
| 13:55:15 | <bqv> | How on earth |
| 13:55:50 | <Iceland_jack> | Those function instances (Syntactic (a->b)) |
| 13:55:57 | <Iceland_jack> | Are magic |
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| 13:56:00 | hackage | language-Modula2 0.1 - Parser, pretty-printer, and more for the Modula-2 programming language https://hackage.haskell.org/package/language-Modula2-0.1 (MarioBlazevic) |
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| 13:56:22 | <bqv> | Iceland_jack: my god that sly monoid instance |
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| 13:56:48 | <Uniaika> | sweet hell |
| 13:56:48 | <bqv> | :t drop <> take |
| 13:56:49 | <lambdabot> | Int -> [a] -> [a] |
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| 13:57:10 | <Uniaika> | monoid instances can lead to surprisingly interesting code |
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| 13:57:47 | <bqv> | Most of the time, bugs where things work that shouldn't, I track down to monoids |
| 13:57:58 | <Iceland_jack> | drop <> take |
| 13:57:58 | <Iceland_jack> | = \n -> drop n <> take n |
| 13:57:58 | <Iceland_jack> | = \n as -> drop n as <> take n as |
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| 14:00:08 | <Iceland_jack> | It's worth noting |
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| 14:00:46 | <Iceland_jack> | deriving via (->) a `Ap` b instance Semigroup b => Semigroup (a->b) |
| 14:00:46 | <Iceland_jack> | deriving via (->) a `Ap` b instance Monoid b => Monoid (a->b) |
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| 14:02:01 | <bqv> | Haskell doesn't like infinite types |
| 14:02:17 | <bqv> | But does that include all infinite forms? |
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| 14:02:37 | <merijn> | bqv: You can trivially bypass that restriction via newtypes |
| 14:03:04 | <bqv> | Ok, but without newtypes? |
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| 14:03:30 | <nshepperd> | what's an infinite form |
| 14:03:33 | <Iceland_jack> | what do you mean by infinite form? |
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| 14:04:35 | <bqv> | I'm noting that (->) is an indexed type, so I'm wondering if you could make an infinite tree out of it |
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| 14:04:44 | <bqv> | And what that would even do |
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| 14:04:59 | <bqv> | With newtypes it wouldn't be callable |
| 14:05:51 | <merijn> | bqv: I mean like "newtype Infinite a = Infinite (a -> Infinite)" works just fine |
| 14:06:38 | <merijn> | nshepperd: Well, imagine [[[[a]]]], except nested, well, infinitely many times :) |
| 14:06:54 | <merijn> | "newtype Infinite = Infinite [Infinite]" |
| 14:07:49 | <bqv> | Ok how about another way, is there a way to create a function that takes an infinite number of args? |
| 14:08:03 | <bqv> | :t fix const |
| 14:08:05 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 14:08:05 | <lambdabot> | • Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a ~ b -> a |
| 14:08:05 | <lambdabot> | Expected type: (b -> a) -> b -> a |
| 14:08:14 | <bqv> | Heh |
| 14:08:28 | <dminuoso> | bqv: yes. |
| 14:08:32 | <dminuoso> | with typeclasses |
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| 14:08:44 | <bqv> | Now we're cooking |
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| 14:09:24 | <merijn> | bqv: The first one takes an infinite number of arguments modulo unwrapping :p |
| 14:09:58 | <bqv> | I know, its just less cool if you have to unwrap :D |
| 14:10:25 | <nshepperd2> | well, with type classes you can make a polymorphic value which can become a function taking any given finite number of arguments |
| 14:10:40 | <dminuoso> | % lift (,) (Just 1) (Just 2) |
| 14:10:41 | <yahb> | dminuoso: Just (1,2) |
| 14:10:46 | <nshepperd2> | which you may or may not consider to count as taking infinite arguments |
| 14:10:46 | <dminuoso> | % lift (,,) (Just 1) (Just 2) (Just 3) |
| 14:10:46 | <yahb> | dminuoso: Just (1,2,3) |
| 14:10:49 | <dminuoso> | % lift (,,,) (Just 1) (Just 2) (Just 3) (Just 4) |
| 14:10:49 | <yahb> | dminuoso: Just (1,2,3,4) |
| 14:10:52 | <dminuoso> | It's magic. :) |
| 14:12:08 | <hekkaidekapus> | xenon- meets Iceland_jack: |
| 14:12:17 | <hekkaidekapus> | > let xs = [[1,2,3],[10,20,30],[100,200,300]]; rotate = drop <> take; go = ZipList . head in (,,) <$> go xs <*> go (rotate 1 xs) <*> go (rotate 2 xs) |
| 14:12:19 | <lambdabot> | ZipList {getZipList = [(1,10,100),(2,20,200),(3,30,300)]} |
| 14:12:57 | <dminuoso> | hekkaidekapus: Okay you're golfing in an odd direction |
| 14:13:04 | <hekkaidekapus> | heh |
| 14:13:25 | <nshepperd2> | deliberately golfing off the course |
| 14:13:28 | <dminuoso> | That's not quite the output asked for. |
| 14:13:53 | <hekkaidekapus> | The morning was rough this side :) |
| 14:14:22 | <dminuoso> | hekkaidekapus: We might have to revoke your golf greencard. |
| 14:15:26 | <hekkaidekapus> | dminuoso: I already won <https://twitter.com/TheMasters/status/1326232433373704194> |
| 14:15:52 | <dminuoso> | hekkaidekapus: But, you're onto something |
| 14:15:54 | <dminuoso> | % traverse ZipList [[1,2,3],[10,20,30],[100,200,300]] |
| 14:15:54 | <yahb> | dminuoso: ZipList {getZipList = [[1,10,100],[2,20,200],[3,30,300]]} |
| 14:15:58 | <dminuoso> | % sequence $ traverse ZipList [[1,2,3],[10,20,30],[100,200,300]] |
| 14:15:58 | <yahb> | dminuoso: [ZipList {getZipList = [1,2,3]},ZipList {getZipList = [1,2,30]},ZipList {getZipList = [1,2,300]},ZipList {getZipList = [1,20,3]},ZipList {getZipList = [1,20,30]},ZipList {getZipList = [1,20,300]},ZipList {getZipList = [1,200,3]},ZipList {getZipList = [1,200,30]},ZipList {getZipList = [1,200,300]},ZipList {getZipList = [10,2,3]},ZipList {getZipList = [10,2,30]},ZipList {getZipList = [10,2,300]},Zip |
| 14:16:03 | <dminuoso> | Uhh, wait |
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| 14:16:09 | <dminuoso> | maybe this is easier with ala |
| 14:16:41 | <Iceland_jack> | unf |
| 14:16:44 | <dminuoso> | % sequence $ ZipList (ZipList <$> [[1,2,3],[10,20,30],[100,200,300]]) |
| 14:16:44 | <yahb> | dminuoso: ; <interactive>:70:1: error:; * Could not deduce (Monad ZipList) arising from a use of `sequence'; from the context: Num a bound by the inferred type of it :: Num a => ZipList (ZipList a) at <interactive>:70:1-67; * In the expression: sequence $ ZipList (ZipList <$> [[1, 2, 3], [10, 20, 30], [100, 200, 300]]); In an equation for `it': it = sequence $ ZipList (ZipList <$> [[1, 2, ... |
| 14:16:45 | <Iceland_jack> | I'm spooked |
| 14:16:56 | <Iceland_jack> | >Monad ZipList |
| 14:16:57 | <Iceland_jack> | state of sin |
| 14:17:01 | <dminuoso> | oh |
| 14:17:06 | <dminuoso> | % sequenceA $ ZipList (ZipList <$> [[1,2,3],[10,20,30],[100,200,300]]) |
| 14:17:06 | <yahb> | dminuoso: ZipList {getZipList = [ZipList {getZipList = [1,10,100]},ZipList {getZipList = [2,20,200]},ZipList {getZipList = [3,30,300]}]} |
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| 14:17:20 | <dminuoso> | That looks good, now we just need to run sequenceA with ala. I dont know how to do that |
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| 14:17:48 | <hekkaidekapus> | Now, who’s golfing :P |
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| 14:18:36 | <dminuoso> | % ala ZipList traverse [[1,2], [10,20]] |
| 14:18:36 | <yahb> | dminuoso: [[1,10],[2,20]] |
| 14:18:43 | <dminuoso> | Getting close there |
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| 14:19:33 | <dminuoso> | hekkaidekapus: But thanks, I had never considered to traverse with ZipList |
| 14:19:36 | <dminuoso> | That's quite a thought. |
| 14:20:13 | <dminuoso> | Mmm, I guess `transpose = ala ZipList traverse` ? |
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| 14:29:22 | <Iceland_jack> | yeah |
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| 14:29:44 | <Iceland_jack> | tranpose = transposeOf traverse <-- doesn't lens have |
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| 14:33:21 | <dminuoso> | transposeOf l = getZipList #. l ZipList |
| 14:33:24 | <dminuoso> | Yeah makes sense |
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| 14:36:00 | hackage | cobot-io 0.1.3.12 - Biological data file formats and IO https://hackage.haskell.org/package/cobot-io-0.1.3.12 (ozzzzz) |
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| 14:38:35 | <bqv> | :t (#.) |
| 14:38:37 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 14:38:37 | <lambdabot> | • Variable not in scope: #. |
| 14:38:37 | <lambdabot> | • Perhaps you meant one of these: |
| 14:38:59 | <dminuoso> | bqv: its just coerce |
| 14:39:02 | <nshepperd> | > transposeOf each ([1,2,3],[456]) |
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| 14:39:04 | <lambdabot> | [(1,456)] |
| 14:39:08 | <bqv> | oh k |
| 14:39:13 | <nshepperd> | oooh |
| 14:39:58 | <dminuoso> | % transposeOf _2 ("foo", "bar") |
| 14:39:58 | <yahb> | dminuoso: [("foo",'b'),("foo",'a'),("foo",'r')] |
| 14:40:04 | <dminuoso> | Crazy |
| 14:40:40 | <hekkaidekapus> | @hackage coercible-utils -- bqv |
| 14:40:40 | <lambdabot> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/coercible-utils -- bqv |
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| 14:51:31 | hackage | pantry 0.5.1.4 - Content addressable Haskell package management https://hackage.haskell.org/package/pantry-0.5.1.4 (MichaelSnoyman) |
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| 14:55:49 | <nshepperd> | spooky |
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| 15:17:00 | hackage | ki 0.1.0 - A lightweight, structured concurrency library https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ki-0.1.0 (mitchellwrosen) |
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| 15:36:32 | <bqv> | polysemy plugin giving me GHC panics |
| 15:36:45 | <bqv> | i don't lose much by turning it off, i guess |
| 15:37:12 | <merijn> | polysemy seems way too complicated and brittle to use, tbh |
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| 15:37:29 | <bqv> | really? i rather like it |
| 15:37:56 | <bqv> | i mean, it does basically make TypeApplications a requirement |
| 15:38:05 | <bqv> | as well as like 5 other extensions, iirc |
| 15:38:22 | <bqv> | but it does beat juggling monad stacks, and i never really liked MTL |
| 15:38:24 | <merijn> | I don't like TypeApplications and think it's too brittle too :p |
| 15:38:29 | <bqv> | ha |
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| 15:40:19 | <bqv> | although, i seem to have actually ended up with an impossible to solve type error though |
| 15:40:26 | <bqv> | no wonder the plugin panicked |
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| 16:00:39 | <maerwald> | merijn: it isn't complicated, the API is nice... but if you get errors, then pray to god |
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| 16:01:13 | <merijn> | maerwald: By complicated I didn't necessarily mean "to use" |
| 16:01:19 | <maerwald> | I found it surprisingly intuitive, compared to other stuff I tried (like freer) |
| 16:01:20 | <merijn> | maerwald: But it's implementation |
| 16:01:23 | <maerwald> | yeah |
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| 16:01:39 | <merijn> | I'm not convinced it justifies it's "weight" |
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| 16:02:03 | <maerwald> | freer took 4 months effort for ppl to figure out how to do some basic IO |
| 16:02:06 | <maerwald> | xD |
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| 16:02:33 | <maerwald> | or was it longer: https://gitlab.com/queertypes/freer/-/issues/7 |
| 16:02:34 | <merijn> | I'm in the "just use IO" camp anyway |
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| 16:03:45 | <maerwald> | I tried mtl style, but when I look at the type signatures, I know as much as IO, which says "well, there might be some effects" |
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| 16:04:04 | <dminuoso> | "queertypes" :) |
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| 16:05:16 | <dminuoso> | Im curious, it has been my observation that the LGTB scene is very prominent in functional programming. |
| 16:05:18 | <dminuoso> | Why is that? |
| 16:05:27 | <merijn> | maerwald: https://twitter.com/k0001/status/1295846402648682496 |
| 16:05:44 | <pjb> | dminuoso: we're too successful, so they try to distract us. |
| 16:05:52 | <Taneb> | dminuoso: I think it's "people who feel like outsiders but can't explain why growing up tend to gravitate towards niche interests" |
| 16:06:00 | <dminuoso> | Are people in functional programming just more honest about themselves, as they are about their programs? |
| 16:06:17 | <dminuoso> | Taneb: Mmm |
| 16:06:21 | <bqv> | dminuoso: i imagine it's also partially just that tech is very lgbt |
| 16:06:25 | <pjb> | nope it's a minority of psyops. |
| 16:06:45 | <pjb> | Look the time we lose on those questions instead of on haskell!!! |
| 16:07:09 | <Taneb> | pjb: clearly all the questions about Haskell have already been answered ;) |
| 16:07:14 | <dolio> | The premise didn't really make sense to me when I read something about it. It was like, "someone said free monads are slow, but if you do a ton of work optimizing them they won't be." Which doesn't sound like an argument for designing everything around that. :) |
| 16:08:01 | <dminuoso> | Taneb: So I'd find more LGTB folks generally in niche interests/fields/hobbies? |
| 16:08:37 | <pjb> | It's just a psyop to eliminate the best from the gene pool. |
| 16:08:37 | <Taneb> | dminuoso: I believe, with admittedly only anecodtal evidence, that's the case |
| 16:08:51 | <dolio> | Like, that seems predicated on already being in the 'free monads are the best thing ever and should be used for everything' camp. |
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| 16:10:00 | <dminuoso> | Taneb: The question though, why would they gravitate towards niche interests? |
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| 16:10:30 | hackage | clckwrks 0.26.3 - A secure, reliable content management system (CMS) and blogging platform https://hackage.haskell.org/package/clckwrks-0.26.3 (JeremyShaw) |
| 16:10:32 | <Taneb> | dminuoso: because we don't tend to feel we fit in with mainstream stuff |
| 16:11:04 | <bqv> | if you allow for transitivity, people with more autistic traits will always gravitate to niche interests, and people with autism are clinically significantly more likely to have an unusual relationship with sexuality/gender |
| 16:11:21 | <dminuoso> | bqv: Can you cite any publications on that? |
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| 16:11:40 | <bqv> | not off the top of my head, but i can guarantee it won't be hard to find one |
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| 16:11:47 | <bqv> | it's well known |
| 16:11:53 | <dminuoso> | How scientific |
| 16:11:55 | <dminuoso> | "It's well known" |
| 16:12:11 | <bqv> | by "it's well known" i mean i see people throwing new papers around about it all the time |
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| 16:12:20 | <bqv> | not that "it's something i saw on facebook" |
| 16:12:21 | <dminuoso> | Fair enough, I just dont read those review papers |
| 16:12:27 | <p0a> | Hello when I read tutorials/books there's typically many versions of a function presented (improvements) |
| 16:12:51 | <p0a> | How can I have multiple versions in my project? I typically set up a project where I test/learn the code I'm reading |
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| 16:13:09 | <p0a> | Should I just have multiple files under src/ (stack projects) |
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| 16:13:21 | <p0a> | That works right? |
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| 16:13:25 | nshepperd27 | is now known as nshepperd2 |
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| 16:14:30 | hackage | phonetic-languages-constaints 0.2.0.0 - Constraints to filter the needed permutations https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-constaints-0.2.0.0 (OleksandrZhabenko) |
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| 16:14:54 | <merijn> | p0a: Well, you can also just have them in the same file, just named differently |
| 16:15:09 | <bqv> | dminuoso: here's two from the UK national autism society site: |
| 16:15:21 | <bqv> | https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30392630/ |
| 16:15:22 | <dminuoso> | Taneb: One additional thing that I kept thinking of, was whether it's also that functional programming generally attracts an audience of more educated, intelligent and open minded people. |
| 16:15:24 | <bqv> | https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26753812/ |
| 16:15:36 | <dminuoso> | Such that they're more friendly and accepting |
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| 16:16:00 | <dminuoso> | This seems to hold true especially of Haskell, based on my observations in this and other communities, as well as various meetups |
| 16:16:01 | <merijn> | dminuoso: Or, maybe it's selection bias from who shapr badgered into joining when he started #haskell :p |
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| 16:16:33 | <bqv> | yeah i do think you have a sampling problem |
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| 16:17:55 | <Uniaika> | I've seen a lot of LGBT and neuroatypical people in the areas of FP and nice hardware hacking |
| 16:17:58 | <Uniaika> | *niche |
| 16:17:59 | <Uniaika> | bleh |
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| 16:18:27 | <maerwald> | neuroatypical... :D |
| 16:18:33 | maerwald | pretends to be normal |
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| 16:19:04 | <Uniaika> | maerwald: what, you're not wearing a blue tie doing Java at IBM! How quaint! |
| 16:19:21 | <maerwald> | well, my random observation was that ppl at the rust meetup in berlin were pretty... shy? |
| 16:19:33 | <maerwald> | In haskell meetups I felt that less so |
| 16:19:39 | p0a | hates meetups |
| 16:20:01 | <maerwald> | but then again... there were actual rustc devs at the meetup |
| 16:20:16 | <maerwald> | *panic attack* |
| 16:20:20 | <p0a> | lol |
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| 16:21:33 | <Uniaika> | Rust as well has attracted quite a diverse community |
| 16:21:39 | <Uniaika> | it's pretty nice |
| 16:22:00 | <maerwald> | I'd guess edward would give even seasoned haskellers at a meetup a little bit of imposter syndrome feeling :p |
| 16:22:21 | <Uniaika> | I met edward at ZuriHac 2019 |
| 16:22:28 | <Uniaika> | very impressive dude |
| 16:22:43 | <merijn> | Uniaika: I think you mean very impressive robot |
| 16:23:00 | <maerwald> | yeah, basically: take my job, because you can do it better :p |
| 16:23:03 | <bqv> | sounds like he passes the turing test |
| 16:23:08 | <merijn> | We all know edwardk is an android. That's how he manages to be so productive, he doesn't require sleep |
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| 16:23:51 | <dminuoso> | merijn: edwardk once wore a "fully functional and programmed in multiple techniques" t-shirt |
| 16:23:58 | <dminuoso> | Think that's a hint? |
| 16:24:02 | <arianvp> | is there no function in haskell to get the domain or fqdn of a host? |
| 16:24:07 | <arianvp> | e.g. the output from hostname -f ? |
| 16:24:10 | <arianvp> | or hostname -d ? |
| 16:24:18 | <maerwald> | did you check network-bsd? |
| 16:24:52 | <bqv> | @hoogle gethostbyname |
| 16:24:52 | <Uniaika> | p. sure I used hostname resolution in Haskell some years ago |
| 16:24:52 | <lambdabot> | Network.BSD getHostByName :: HostName -> IO HostEntry |
| 16:25:24 | <merijn> | Is there even a sensible API for getting fqdn? |
| 16:25:31 | <merijn> | bqv: That seems like the opposite |
| 16:25:46 | <merijn> | C has gethostname(), but I'm not sure if that's FQDN |
| 16:26:00 | bqv | shrug |
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| 16:26:13 | <maerwald> | close enough |
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| 16:26:31 | <merijn> | Uniaika: hostname resolution is not the same as "what's the FQDN of this host?" |
| 16:26:57 | <merijn> | arianvp: I recommend modifying your desire so that getHostName is sufficient :p |
| 16:27:10 | <arianvp> | I think it's the uname syscall |
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| 16:27:46 | <Uniaika> | erf, my bad |
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| 16:27:55 | <merijn> | arianvp: uname should be in the unix package |
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| 16:28:18 | <p0a> | https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/functions/getnameinfo.html |
| 16:28:53 | <arianvp> | ah no I think it parses /etc/hosts to get the domain part |
| 16:29:05 | <arianvp> | looking at the strace of "hostname --fqdn" |
| 16:29:10 | <bqv> | @hoogle getnameinfo |
| 16:29:10 | <lambdabot> | Network.Socket getNameInfo :: [NameInfoFlag] -> Bool -> Bool -> SockAddr -> IO (Maybe HostName, Maybe ServiceName) |
| 16:29:12 | <bqv> | is a thing |
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| 16:29:16 | <arianvp> | it first calls uname to get the hostname; and then parses /etc/hosts |
| 16:30:02 | <maerwald> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/network-bsd-2.8.1.0/docs/Network-BSD.html#v:getHostEntries |
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| 16:45:55 | <p0a> | does anyone else use haskell-mode on emacs? How do you make the indentation behave? |
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| 16:47:03 | <maerwald> | you don't |
| 16:47:07 | <maerwald> | never works correctly |
| 16:47:10 | <p0a> | This is how it looks: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/gP3DZmu2 I wanted to align <$> with <*> |
| 16:47:21 | <p0a> | lol alright. What's the solution? Don't use emacs? :P |
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| 16:49:28 | <tomsmeding> | automatic indentation for haskell is a complex topic anyhow |
| 16:49:54 | <tomsmeding> | writing a parser being difficult and all, but also people not agreeing on how stuff is to be formatted |
| 16:49:58 | <maerwald> | yeah, on vim it's probably worse and would sometimes keep re-indenting, even if you revert it |
| 16:50:01 | <maerwald> | weird stuf |
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| 16:51:52 | <dsal> | p0a: It'll do that if you put the (,,) on the line above. |
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| 16:52:04 | <dsal> | One of the problems is that everyone else's code is uglier than mine would be if the tools just did what I wanted. |
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| 16:52:53 | <p0a> | dsal: okay, thank you. I wanted to make sure, I guess ad-hoc solutions is what I have to employ |
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| 16:53:17 | <dsal> | My haskell-mode and stylish-haskell setups don't disagree too much. |
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| 16:57:56 | <boxscape> | would you say there's a relationship between purely functional programming and not using null references? |
| 16:58:10 | <hc> | I think so |
| 16:58:30 | <boxscape> | I guess trying to do something with a null reference that you can't do usually results in side effects? |
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| 16:59:04 | <hc> | you don't have/use regularily references in purely functional programming languages ;) |
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| 16:59:17 | <hc> | at least not directly; it's all hidden away by smart compilers |
| 16:59:19 | <maerwald> | hc: why not? |
| 16:59:26 | <hc> | maerwald: less need |
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| 16:59:54 | <hc> | maerwald: due to referential transparency mostly, i think |
| 17:00:01 | <maerwald> | boxscape: only practically. I don't think it matters theoretically? |
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| 17:00:37 | <boxscape> | Just thinking about whether I can find a good segway to talk about avoiding null pointers in a talk about purely functional programming :) |
| 17:00:49 | <boxscape> | er |
| 17:00:51 | <boxscape> | segue |
| 17:01:15 | <maerwald> | that is, it isn't obvious to me why you can't have a purely functional programming language with null pointers |
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| 17:01:59 | <p0a> | scheme right? |
| 17:02:08 | <hc> | maerwald: because what's the use of a null pointer when you don't have pointers/references in the first place? |
| 17:02:09 | <boxscape> | I guess having "null pointers" doesn't necessarily mean regular variables/constant can have a value of null, which is how I was thinking about it |
| 17:02:26 | <maerwald> | hc: I'm not talking about the use, but the definition |
| 17:02:31 | <maerwald> | I don't think there's a hard correlation |
| 17:02:40 | <hc> | agree, it's a soft correlation ;) |
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| 17:03:39 | <hc> | maerwald: do pointers/references make sense in a purely functional language? |
| 17:03:42 | <Chousuke> | null pointers aren't really the problem, it's when any pointer type can have null values that you run into trouble |
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| 17:03:56 | <timCF> | Hello guys! I know it sounds stupid, but I'll ask anyway. For whatever reason my linker is extremely slow, when stack do linking phase - I literally can have time for a cup of tea or two. Maybe I'm missing something. How to make it fast? |
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| 17:04:25 | <boxscape> | Chousuke so you're saying the type of the pointer should indicate whether it can point to null? |
| 17:04:55 | <bqv> | p0a: i think you can do it by modifying the c-indent family of variables |
| 17:05:09 | <bqv> | but i just avoid asking emacs to indent for me |
| 17:05:17 | <bqv> | because it always does it 'wrong' |
| 17:05:19 | <Chousuke> | boxscape: essentially, yes. Or in other words, just support Optional/Maybe |
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| 17:05:26 | <boxscape> | yeah, that makes sense |
| 17:05:29 | <hc> | maerwald: i'm not saying by any means i'm right about this... i merely want to understand it :) |
| 17:05:36 | <p0a> | bqv: what do you do instead? |
| 17:05:43 | <bqv> | use my spacebar? :p |
| 17:05:53 | <p0a> | hc: yes they do |
| 17:05:59 | <p0a> | hc: You can have tape and ... pointers on it |
| 17:06:05 | <hc> | timCF: i'm regularily waiting for 5 minutes for the rust linker to finish in release/optimizing mode |
| 17:06:19 | <maerwald> | hc: purely function is defined as: call-by-name, call-by-need and call-by-value are weakly equivalent in that language (modulo bottom) |
| 17:06:32 | <maerwald> | I don't see why you can't meet that criteria with null pointers |
| 17:06:52 | <hc> | maerwald: what use would a null pointer be if you can never assign another value to the variable that holds it? |
| 17:06:59 | <maerwald> | because it's bottom if you deref it |
| 17:07:09 | <hc> | hmm, so an error case? |
| 17:07:43 | <bqv> | hc: i mean i'm currently using a pointerlike thing using the Store comonad, and as it happens my keys are 'Ptr a' so i'm abusing nullptr to be a zero value rather than Maybe-ing it |
| 17:07:45 | <p0a> | hc: what use are pointers if you can't manipulate the pointees? |
| 17:07:54 | <maerwald> | what matters is that the expressions are equivalent under different eval strategies if there is NO bottom |
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| 17:08:06 | <int-e> | p0a: they allow sharing |
| 17:08:24 | <hc> | p0a: precisely. they aren't of any use as far as i can see it |
| 17:08:28 | <p0a> | int-e: Not sure what you mean :) but I was trying to say that hc's point is not a good point |
| 17:08:51 | <int-e> | pah, context |
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| 17:09:04 | <bqv> | i prefer lualatex |
| 17:09:07 | <hc> | okay, different question: *how* do i make a pointer of something in haskell? |
| 17:09:10 | <p0a> | hc: Haskell is not "without side effects" |
| 17:09:20 | <timCF> | hc, do you think it's normal for dev environment, without O2 flag, which is supposed to be fast I guess.. |
| 17:09:22 | <hc> | p0a: i know about iorefs |
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| 17:09:42 | <maerwald> | p0a: IO has no side effects =) |
| 17:10:03 | <maerwald> | the only side effect in haskell is unsafePerformIO (yes, that breaks the language) |
| 17:10:04 | <p0a> | maerwald: yeah it's fair to say that. C has no side effects either |
| 17:10:16 | <maerwald> | p0a: it does |
| 17:10:20 | <p0a> | Ah I see, alright. I misunderstood you |
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| 17:10:34 | <int-e> | Oh, I think I see... Well, most haskell implementations pass values by reference which are pointers. There's hardly a point in exposing this implementation detail to the user. |
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| 17:10:59 | <maerwald> | but they could |
| 17:11:07 | <int-e> | Unless you bring actual mutation to the table, for which you'll need IO or ST. |
| 17:11:47 | <boxscape> | maerwald non-terminating programs don't count as side-effecting either? |
| 17:12:13 | <maerwald> | boxscape: dunno, that term is a bit more fuzzy |
| 17:12:31 | <int-e> | boxscape: the usual formal semantics will treat that case as bottom. |
| 17:12:39 | <bqv> | IO at least has the side effect of p***ing me off a lot |
| 17:12:45 | <int-e> | the structure of bottoms... is rarely captured formally. |
| 17:12:45 | <boxscape> | oh, right, I guess that makes sense |
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| 17:13:57 | <hekkaidekapus> | boxscape: If your talk is not geared to any particular language, you can mention ATS about sound pointer manipulation. |
| 17:13:58 | <hc> | bqv: oh i thought that was io's main purpose? ;p |
| 17:14:12 | <hc> | timCF: nah, that should be much faster |
| 17:14:33 | <bqv> | hdh |
| 17:14:35 | <bqv> | heh* |
| 17:14:59 | <int-e> | hope dat helps? |
| 17:15:00 | <int-e> | :) |
| 17:15:16 | <boxscape> | hekkaidekapus it is geared towards, of all things, Java :) |
| 17:15:22 | <hekkaidekapus> | For NULL, you handle it as a Maybe like Chousuke said, specifically using a dataview . |
| 17:15:25 | <maerwald> | boxscape: https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.106.364&rep=rep1&type=pdf |
| 17:15:29 | <p0a> | If I do import Data.Text (Text) followed by import qualified Data.Text as T, does it make sense? |
| 17:15:40 | <maerwald> | it doesn't properly define side effect either |
| 17:15:45 | <bqv> | p0a: yes |
| 17:15:50 | <p0a> | thank you bq |
| 17:16:00 | <boxscape> | maerwald huh, interesting |
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| 17:16:47 | <maerwald> | functional is clear (based on lambda calculus), purely functional as well (eval strategy equivalence), but side effect is somewhere off |
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| 17:18:19 | <maerwald> | If you take a radical stance you could maybe say haskell is purely functional with side effects |
| 17:18:48 | <hekkaidekapus> | boxscape: Ok, forget ATS then! The dataview stuff is neat, a Maybe at the pointer level; it might be for a follow-up talk ;) |
| 17:19:02 | <boxscape> | it certainly sounds interesting |
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| 17:38:01 | hackage | wai-rate-limit 0.1.0.0 - Rate limiting as WAI middleware https://hackage.haskell.org/package/wai-rate-limit-0.1.0.0 (mbg) |
| 17:38:05 | <dminuoso> | int-e: heh. "most haskell implementations". how many are still alive and in actual use? |
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| 17:38:37 | <int-e> | dminuoso: but those are two different questions |
| 17:38:47 | int-e | wonders whether ndm still uses winhugs, for example |
| 17:38:56 | <maerwald> | do eta and frege count? |
| 17:39:00 | hackage | wai-rate-limit-redis 0.1.0.0 - Redis backend for rate limiting as WAI middleware https://hackage.haskell.org/package/wai-rate-limit-redis-0.1.0.0 (mbg) |
| 17:39:08 | <dminuoso> | int-e: wait, ndm used winhugs? |
| 17:39:33 | <dminuoso> | maerwald: Id say yes. |
| 17:40:07 | <int-e> | dminuoso: The ones I'm aware of are ghc and ghcjs, but I'm not really keeping track anymore. hugs, nhc are not maintained, jhc is probably unmaintained as well... |
| 17:40:33 | <int-e> | dminuoso: ndm liked it because it reloaded code much faster than ghci |
| 17:40:43 | <bqv> | yhc never even got off the ground, huh... |
| 17:40:49 | <maerwald> | also, pH counts as well |
| 17:40:52 | <dminuoso> | I mean frege itself seems like a pure haskell implementation |
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| 17:40:55 | <dminuoso> | eta is a dialect tho |
| 17:41:05 | <dminuoso> | Or are there relevant differences between frege and haskell? |
| 17:41:43 | <maerwald> | https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.106.364&rep=rep1&type=pdf |
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| 17:41:58 | <maerwald> | it's lenient haskell |
| 17:42:15 | <int-e> | dminuoso: I guess I was allowing for crazy possibilities like somebody writing a Haskell implementation targeting pure lambda calculus or things like sed. |
| 17:42:54 | <int-e> | dminuoso: actually ghcjs is an interesting case here as well |
| 17:43:35 | <dminuoso> | int-e: I dont even understand how ghcjs does memory management. |
| 17:43:47 | <dminuoso> | afaik js does not provide you with raw memory access |
| 17:44:01 | <dminuoso> | Do you have two "nested" garbage collectors? |
| 17:44:06 | <int-e> | Right, I just realized I don't know that either... does it use arrays for a simulated heap or does it use javscript objects? |
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| 17:46:07 | <int-e> | Well, let me see if I can build that thing and find out... |
| 17:46:31 | <bqv> | nested garbage collectors |
| 17:46:34 | <dminuoso> | int-e: https://www.haskell.org/haskell-symposium/2013/ghcjs.pdf |
| 17:46:39 | <bqv> | that sounds like a special kind of hell |
| 17:46:54 | <dminuoso> | According to that (possibly dated) paper, plain JS objects |
| 17:47:19 | <int-e> | Right, "representing every Haskell heap object as a plain JavaScript object" |
| 17:47:25 | <dminuoso> | So that would suggest, there's only the JS garbage collector |
| 17:47:29 | <bqv> | makes the most sense |
| 17:47:37 | <bqv> | besides, purescript manages fine |
| 17:47:45 | <dminuoso> | PureScript is strict. |
| 17:47:52 | <bqv> | entirely? |
| 17:47:52 | <dminuoso> | That changes things |
| 17:47:54 | <dminuoso> | Yes |
| 17:48:12 | <bqv> | i thought there was some laziness somewhere... meh |
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| 18:01:45 | <bqv> | good lord it compiled |
| 18:01:49 | <bqv> | for the first time in a week |
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| 18:07:34 | <p0a> | what does {..} mean? |
| 18:07:43 | <p0a> | I see stuff like `return Authority {..}' |
| 18:07:51 | <dminuoso> | p0a: RecordWildCards |
| 18:08:02 | <dminuoso> | It's the sane and useful part of that extension. |
| 18:08:09 | <p0a> | alright |
| 18:08:31 | <dminuoso> | (The not-so-useful part is when you use {..} for pattern matching, as in `f (Foo{..}) = ...` |
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| 18:08:59 | <p0a> | I am not sure about that, I understand what {..} does now though |
| 18:09:17 | <monochrom> | Why is that not so useful? |
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| 18:10:03 | <dminuoso> | It can create subtle to find bugs |
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| 18:10:20 | <dminuoso> | It invisibly introduced identifiers that can shadow other things. |
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| 18:10:46 | <dminuoso> | NamedFieldPuns is a safer, albeit slightly more verbose, alternative |
| 18:11:16 | <koz_> | I agree on the 'subtle to find bugs' definitely. I've been bitten by this a lot. |
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| 18:13:11 | <dminuoso> | RecordWildCards on expression otoh is quite handy, especially for larger records. In the setting of parsers, `Foo <$> parseA <*> parseB <*> parseC` can easily lead to mistakes, especially if there's a lot of fields |
| 18:13:28 | <dminuoso> | (You could accidentally switch parseB and parseC for example, without noticing if the types line up) |
| 18:13:45 | <dminuoso> | It also gets increasingly difficult identifying which fragment corresponds to what field |
| 18:14:12 | <monochrom> | That one I know and agree. |
| 18:14:28 | <dminuoso> | if you hoever used (possibly Applicative-) do expressions `do { fA <- parseA; fB <- parseB; fC <- fieldC; pure Foo{..} }` it makes it more explicit without sacrificing too much extra typing |
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| 18:15:49 | <dminuoso> | Amusingly, I sometimes accidentally write `Foo{..}` in a pattern instead of `Foo{}`. Since I often have RecordWildCards enabled for the above mentioned use case, that has hidden a nasty bug before. |
| 18:16:13 | <dminuoso> | muscle memory can be an annoying thing :) |
| 18:16:54 | <monochrom> | I have been writing a fair amount of Scheme lately. |
| 18:17:14 | <dminuoso> | Curious, what's the reason? |
| 18:17:14 | <monochrom> | Then I went to write some for loops in C. I started "(for i=0;" |
| 18:17:25 | <monochrom> | "wait, that doesn't look right" |
| 18:17:40 | <dminuoso> | heh |
| 18:18:00 | <p0a> | why do you write Scheme if you know Haskell? |
| 18:18:25 | <monochrom> | I am a substitute teacher for a course that uses Scheme. |
| 18:18:27 | dminuoso | bets is a Scheme course |
| 18:18:32 | dminuoso | was right |
| 18:18:34 | <p0a> | Alright lol |
| 18:18:53 | <monochrom> | Don't worry, there will be Haskell. |
| 18:18:57 | <p0a> | hehe |
| 18:19:01 | <monochrom> | THERE WILL BE BLOOD |
| 18:19:10 | <dminuoso> | monochrom: So out of curiosity. Do you have previous Scheme experience? |
| 18:19:12 | <p0a> | make a u-turn on the last week before finals |
| 18:19:17 | <monochrom> | yes |
| 18:19:48 | <dminuoso> | From substituting Scheme courses? ;p |
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| 18:20:21 | <monochrom> | Not just that. A few years ago, my course had both Scheme and Haskell too. |
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| 18:20:42 | <dminuoso> | Do you get to decide what's in your course, or how does that even work? |
| 18:20:56 | <dminuoso> | Is there a board that decides on what's on course? |
| 18:20:57 | <monochrom> | But I'm too annoyed at eager evaluation and uncurrying, so I dropped it. |
| 18:21:32 | <p0a> | When I substitute taught |
| 18:21:42 | <monochrom> | For better or worse, there is no board for this, I have liberty to add or drop topics at a whim. |
| 18:21:43 | <p0a> | I realized that nobody is checking on me, so yeah, you can teach whatever you want |
| 18:22:06 | <dminuoso> | So the students are truly at your merci |
| 18:22:12 | <dminuoso> | Or.. mercy. |
| 18:22:31 | <dminuoso> | Guess that |
| 18:22:38 | <dminuoso> | Guess that's how Darth Vader must feel. |
| 18:22:52 | <monochrom> | Although, if I am the intended instructor right on the first day, I have no guilt choosing my favourite topics; but if I'm a substitute teacher stepping in in the middle, I've got to honour the original intention of the original teacher. |
| 18:22:59 | <dminuoso> | Except, and that's as far as I can tell, he doesn't do functional programming. |
| 18:23:14 | <dminuoso> | That makes sense |
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| 18:23:35 | <p0a> | I ironically had more freedom instructing as a TA |
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| 18:24:03 | <dminuoso> | monochrom: So that begs the question, if you have complete autonomy, what exactly is in your job description? |
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| 18:24:22 | <dminuoso> | "Teaching what you like, when you like it to whomever you like"? |
| 18:24:26 | <p0a> | when you're a teacher you have to follow the syllabus (especially if the course is split among many teachers) |
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| 18:24:42 | <dminuoso> | Or are you at least expected to deliver something compsci related? |
| 18:24:42 | <p0a> | Also student expectation is that you _will_ go on board and copy notes from the book |
| 18:24:48 | <p0a> | It can't be otherwise |
| 18:25:05 | <monochrom> | It goes like "develop course material, deliver lectures, admin duties" |
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| 18:25:48 | <dminuoso> | So you could teach about the various ways of cooking fish and get away with it? |
| 18:25:56 | <p0a> | Not without tenure dminuoso |
| 18:25:57 | <dminuoso> | As long as you produce course material for it? |
| 18:26:17 | <p0a> | The trick is that there's nobody that can really evaluate you dminuoso you're literally the top head |
| 18:26:49 | <p0a> | Those above you have a very vague idea on the subject |
| 18:27:19 | <tomsmeding> | on... normal schools, I believe, there's this thing variously called "learning outcomes" that are stipulated beforehand and are to be followed by the teacher |
| 18:27:38 | <p0a> | yeah but those metrics are largely irrelevant |
| 18:27:41 | <tomsmeding> | though maybe that's a fancy coming from places where there are actually multiple people teaching the same course |
| 18:27:49 | <dminuoso> | You mean the curriculum? |
| 18:28:05 | <p0a> | I think he means the tests that students take |
| 18:28:07 | <tomsmeding> | I guess, though people also use that word for something on a higher level |
| 18:28:10 | <tomsmeding> | no! |
| 18:28:13 | <tomsmeding> | I do not mean the tests |
| 18:28:30 | <tomsmeding> | the test is derived from the learning outcomes |
| 18:28:31 | <koz_> | tomsmeding: In my entire experience as a TA in a place with 'learning outcomes', over damn near a decade, I met literally _one_ person who actually followed them. |
| 18:28:35 | <p0a> | The curicculum is just cargo cult nonsense |
| 18:28:36 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: Well, my girlfriend at least has to follow the federal curriculum |
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| 18:28:41 | <monochrom> | Strangely enough I think they don't have very strong and clear language about course content, maybe only weak language; instead, it's the hiring qualification that clearly insists "must have experience in this course". |
| 18:28:42 | <dminuoso> | So her syllabus has to fit inside that |
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| 18:29:02 | <dminuoso> | monochrom: I see, you should become a hobby cook then. |
| 18:29:06 | <dminuoso> | :) |
| 18:29:06 | <koz_> | (or more precisely, designed anything in their classes around them) |
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| 18:29:20 | <tomsmeding> | (in particular, I know two teachers well on two very different schools, and there the situation is, at least ostensibly, as I just described) |
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| 18:29:37 | <dminuoso> | But this likely varies from state to state across countries even |
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| 18:30:01 | <p0a> | My experience teaching is that we placed large emphasis on testing and teaching for the test |
| 18:30:05 | <dminuoso> | At least here, education is a federal responsibility, so they decide on the core topics of the curriculum |
| 18:30:12 | <dminuoso> | the school then outlines the exact curriculum |
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| 18:30:26 | <dminuoso> | and the teacher then has, essentially, unchecked and unlimited freedom to plan his or her syllabus |
| 18:30:33 | <dminuoso> | with the assumption they follow the schools curriculum |
| 18:30:49 | <p0a> | with the contraint of time, the teacher has very little freedom |
| 18:30:55 | <Rembane> | So the trick is to not follow the curriculum and hope that noone notices? :) |
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| 18:31:06 | <tomsmeding> | seems so |
| 18:31:08 | <p0a> | Rembane: the students will notice and complain :P |
| 18:31:09 | <tomsmeding> | :) |
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| 18:32:10 | <Rembane> | p0a: Ach! Those pesky students! :D |
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| 18:32:22 | <p0a> | It's all off-topic I guess but I have very strong opinions on this and could talk about it forever |
| 18:32:56 | <tomsmeding> | perhaps indeed off-topic :p |
| 18:32:59 | <p0a> | I might be making the mistake of judging the entire situation from my own experience... |
| 18:33:15 | <p0a> | right, I'll go back to the megaparsec tutorial :P |
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| 18:36:43 | <dminuoso> | Rembane: she could, probably |
| 18:36:54 | <cohn> | p0a: do you have a link to that tutorial? |
| 18:37:16 | <p0a> | cohn: sure |
| 18:37:20 | <dminuoso> | As long as she doesn't do this in a class that graduates, it will largely go unnoticed. |
| 18:37:42 | <p0a> | cohn: https://markkarpov.com/tutorial/megaparsec.html |
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| 18:38:11 | <Rembane> | :D |
| 18:39:16 | <p0a> | cohn: I'm afraid it might be too simple for you :) I am learning the very basics |
| 18:39:44 | <cohn> | i've never used it so I'd imagine it'll be just right. ; ) |
| 18:39:47 | <cohn> | p0a: thanks! |
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| 18:44:49 | <p0a> | cohn: you're welcome |
| 18:45:00 | hackage | polysemy-vinyl 0.1.0.0 - Functions for mapping vinyl records in polysemy. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/polysemy-vinyl-0.1.0.0 (locallycompact) |
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| 18:53:24 | <gecko_> | clear |
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| 19:04:30 | hackage | phonetic-languages-constaints 0.2.1.0 - Constraints to filter the needed permutations https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-constaints-0.2.1.0 (OleksandrZhabenko) |
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| 19:14:01 | hackage | approx 0.1.0.0 - Easy-to-use reasonable way of emulating approx in Haskell. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/approx-0.1.0.0 (kishaloy) |
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| 19:34:31 | hackage | strict-tuple 0.1.4 - Strict tuples https://hackage.haskell.org/package/strict-tuple-0.1.4 (mitchellwrosen) |
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| 20:01:42 | <Uniaika> | maerwald: new hls release! |
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| 20:03:24 | <maerwald> | I have RSI, provide a PR |
| 20:04:08 | <maerwald> | also trying to fix kinesis firmware |
| 20:05:20 | <koz_> | maerwald: Why the Kinesis firmware fix? |
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| 20:06:54 | <maerwald> | just trying to make tap and hold work lol, probably need to order that usb to usb converter from that dude in japan |
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| 20:08:24 | <maerwald> | https://www.1upkeyboards.com/shop/controllers/usb-to-usb-converter/ |
| 20:08:53 | <maerwald> | coding makes it worse, because of modifier keys youre pressing all the time |
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| 20:27:37 | <frdg> | in the expression `\x y -> foo` are `x` and `y` the free variables? |
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| 20:30:06 | <koz_> | frdg: x and y are bound in the body of that lambda. |
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| 20:32:24 | <frdg> | oh so `foo` is the free variable? |
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| 20:32:53 | <dminuoso> | Yes. |
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| 20:33:18 | <dminuoso> | frdg: The term `free` is used as opposed to `bound` |
| 20:33:23 | <monochrom> | Is foo a variable? Or is foo just there to stand for an arbitrary expression? |
| 20:33:24 | <frdg> | because the free variable in a lambda expression is one that comes from outside the lambdas scope |
| 20:33:36 | <dminuoso> | frdg: no. |
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| 20:33:43 | <dminuoso> | it just means "not bound" |
| 20:33:50 | <dminuoso> | The reason is not important |
| 20:34:25 | <frdg> | ok I see. When this lambda is applied to two variable those variables become bound to x and y. |
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| 20:36:02 | <dminuoso> | frdg: no, it's rather.. when you take the expression `\x y -> x y z` then x and y are bound (by the binders to the left of the arrow), but z is not |
| 20:37:09 | <dminuoso> | So in lambda calculus its *abstraction* that binds, not application. |
| 20:37:21 | <dminuoso> | i.e. (λx.M) binds x in M |
| 20:37:38 | <frdg> | ok. I am having trouble coming up with a lambda that has a free variable and makes sense. |
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| 20:38:19 | <dminuoso> | frdg: It's common to call `λx` or `λx.` as a/the binder |
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| 20:38:59 | <dminuoso> | (so abstraction binds, application substitutes bound variables) |
| 20:40:06 | <frdg> | I think I understand bound variables now but still not free. in `\x y -> add x y` is `add` a free variable? |
| 20:40:38 | <frdg> | add isn't much of a variable though |
| 20:40:40 | <dminuoso> | frdg: see monochrom's question |
| 20:40:47 | <dminuoso> | If `add` is a variable, then yes. |
| 20:40:48 | <monochrom> | If you understand "bound", then simply use "free = not bound". |
| 20:41:21 | <monochrom> | Buy one get one free. Or rather, buy one bound, get one free. |
| 20:42:05 | Guest_73 | is now known as fxr |
| 20:42:30 | <frdg> | ok. Just for final clarification, say add is another lambda. Add would be a free variable correct? |
| 20:42:34 | <dminuoso> | frdg: Just take this phrasing at face value: "In a lambda abstraction (λx.E), x is _said_ to be bound inside E. Phrased differently, inside E all occurences of x are said to be bound" |
| 20:42:47 | <dminuoso> | The binding has no intrinsic meaning than that statement |
| 20:42:54 | <dminuoso> | Its use comes from how we define substition |
| 20:43:11 | <dminuoso> | or rather, in both alpha and eta conversion |
| 20:43:33 | <dminuoso> | alpha conversion is the act of renaming *bound* variables |
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| 20:43:47 | <dminuoso> | eta reduction is the act of substituting *bound* variables with another expression |
| 20:44:25 | <dminuoso> | concretely |
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| 20:45:25 | <dminuoso> | (λx.E[x]) -α-> (λy.E[y]) is the process of replacing the (bound) variables x in E to y, such that in the resulting expression y is bound in E (by the surrounding abstraction) |
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| 20:47:00 | <frdg> | ok I understand well enough. This is helpful. |
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| 20:47:19 | <dminuoso> | Oh, and above that should have read `beta reduction` not `eta` reduction. my keyboard is a bit flakey |
| 20:48:03 | <dminuoso> | (well to be fair, there's further uses of these terms. like we call a lambda expression without free variables a combinator |
| 20:48:20 | <dminuoso> | so `\x y -> add x y` is not a combinator because it has a free variable inside |
| 20:48:30 | <bqv> | though eta reduction is a thing |
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| 20:50:17 | <frdg> | I cant think of why a combinator could be useful. To me a combinator would be either identity or function application. |
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| 20:51:19 | <tomsmeding> | frdg: consider: \f -> (\x -> f x) 1 |
| 20:51:35 | <tomsmeding> | in that inner lambda, \x -> f x, 'f' is free and 'x' is bound |
| 20:51:58 | <dminuoso> | frdg: it's just a name for it. |
| 20:52:09 | <tomsmeding> | if you leave out the surrounding stuff and just look at the following in isolation: \n -> add n |
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| 20:52:13 | <dminuoso> | frdg: when studying systems, sometimes certain things have properties. |
| 20:52:16 | <tomsmeding> | then 'add' is free and 'n' is bound ;) |
| 20:52:21 | <dminuoso> | and we tend to name these certain things |
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| 20:53:15 | <frdg> | tomsmeding: these were nice examples. It is clear to me now. |
| 20:54:22 | <dminuoso> | frdg: As a teaser, GHC has the notion of supercombinators which is related: |
| 20:54:25 | <dminuoso> | https://wiki.haskell.org/Super_combinator |
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| 20:54:48 | <frdg> | ill read this |
| 20:55:02 | <dminuoso> | (The impact of this is largely related to performance/optimization topics in GHC) |
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| 20:56:23 | <dminuoso> | frdg: If we ignore bits and pieces, we could actually make one first realization: we can always float a combinator out right until the top level in haskell. |
| 20:56:34 | <dminuoso> | But how would we even express what expression we can float out? |
| 20:56:48 | <dminuoso> | Well, it's easy. If the expression is a combinator, then we can float it out as it |
| 20:56:50 | <dminuoso> | *as is |
| 20:57:03 | <dminuoso> | (This you probably do manually regularly in Haskell) |
| 20:57:42 | <frdg> | by float it out you mean un-nest it? |
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| 20:58:18 | <dminuoso> | I mean it in the sense of let-floating |
| 20:58:30 | <dminuoso> | https://wiki.haskell.org/Lifting_pattern |
| 20:59:05 | <frdg> | ohh the opposite of lift |
| 20:59:19 | <dminuoso> | no, this is also called "lifting" |
| 20:59:22 | <frdg> | no. lift |
| 20:59:24 | <dminuoso> | (a terribly overused word) |
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| 21:00:17 | <riddle00> | . |
| 21:00:21 | <koz_> | Haskell is the strongest proglang. |
| 21:00:22 | <dminuoso> | So the term "combinator" just lets us have a clear terminology. if you were to write in GHC, and wondering "when can I float an expression to the top and give it a name", I'd say "you can do this if it is a combinator" |
| 21:00:23 | <koz_> | All we do is lift. |
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| 21:00:47 | <dminuoso> | Or equivalently, if you identify a particular expression to be a combinator, you know you can float it out all the way to the top (or half the way) and give it a name. |
| 21:00:49 | <dminuoso> | And it's fine |
| 21:01:09 | <frdg> | now I really understand why we could float a combinator. Like tomsmeding's example `consider: \f -> (\x -> f x) 1`. we could not float the inner lambda because it relies on f. |
| 21:01:50 | <frdg> | but we could float f itself |
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| 21:02:06 | tomsmeding | . o O ( "f itself"? ) |
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| 21:04:43 | <dminuoso> | We tend to do this sort of reasoning in our heads when we refactor code, but compilers dont have heads, they have to be implemented with algorithms. So they need to know what mechanical transformations they are allowed to do and what not |
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| 21:12:00 | hackage | tasty-hspec 1.1.6 - Hspec support for the Tasty test framework. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/tasty-hspec-1.1.6 (mitchellwrosen) |
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| 21:40:33 | × | Cir0X quits (sid221743@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ouxxoxkrtirtgzgf) (*.net *.split) |
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| 21:40:33 | × | thi quits (sid97277@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iakzqiyfoextftan) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:40:33 | × | ProofTechnique quits (sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eksujsicoqugirny) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:40:33 | × | aristid quits (sid1599@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ckvrkhwfnpsjpxkc) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:40:33 | × | Nascha quits (sid212230@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mfmiwrmytvzpxdpd) (*.net *.split) |
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| 21:41:34 | × | quinn quits (~quinn@c-73-223-224-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.1 - https://znc.in) |
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| 21:41:47 | × | sud0 quits (~Death@hackspaceuy/member/sud0) (*.net *.split) |
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| 21:41:47 | × | Jello_Raptor quits (~Jello_Rap@li641-12.members.linode.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:47 | × | xintron quits (~xintron@unaffiliated/xintron) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:47 | × | Lowl3v3l quits (~Lowl3v3l@dslb-002-203-195-108.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:47 | × | AWizzArd quits (~code@unaffiliated/awizzard) (*.net *.split) |
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| 21:41:47 | × | cheater quits (~user@unaffiliated/cheater) (*.net *.split) |
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| 21:41:47 | × | infinity0 quits (~infinity0@freenet/developer/infinity0) (*.net *.split) |
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| 21:41:47 | × | jhuizy quits (~jhuizy@static.241.188.216.95.clients.your-server.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:47 | × | SupaYoshi quits (~supayoshi@213-10-140-13.fixed.kpn.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:47 | × | jneira quits (5127ac76@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.81.39.172.118) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:47 | × | codedmart quits (~codedmart@149.28.9.205) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:47 | × | Majiir quits (~Majiir@pool-96-237-149-35.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:47 | × | Tene quits (~tene@poipu/supporter/slacker/tene) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:47 | × | werneta quits (~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:47 | × | mapperr quits (~mapperr@vmi389916.contaboserver.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:47 | × | rotaerk quits (~rotaerk@ender.afternet.org) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:47 | × | Qudit314159 quits (~user@unaffiliated/qudit314159) (*.net *.split) |
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| 21:41:47 | × | aoei quits (~aoei@240.223.246.35.bc.googleusercontent.com) (*.net *.split) |
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| 21:41:47 | × | zfnmxt quits (~zfnmxt@unaffiliated/zfnmxt) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:47 | × | acowley quits (~acowley@c-68-83-22-43.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:47 | × | dustypacer quits (~pi@137-025-112-171.res.spectrum.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:47 | × | dysfigured quits (~dysfigure@li490-89.members.linode.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:47 | × | Nikotiini quits (~ubuntu@ec2-52-213-118-142.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:47 | × | ephemera_ quits (~E@122.34.1.187) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:47 | × | tomsmeding quits (~tomsmedin@tomsmeding.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:47 | × | avn quits (~avn@78-56-108-78.static.zebra.lt) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:47 | × | Patternmaster quits (~georg@li1192-118.members.linode.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:47 | × | hwabyong quits (~hwabyong@ec2-3-221-194-167.compute-1.amazonaws.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:47 | × | cp- quits (~cp-@b157153.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:47 | × | dibblego quits (~dibblego@haskell/developer/dibblego) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:47 | × | tanuki quits (~quassel@173.168.154.189) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:48 | × | hodapp quits (~hodapp@react-ams-119225.antiddos.solutions) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:48 | × | bcoppens quits (~bartcopp@kde/coppens) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:48 | × | jamestmartin quits (~james@jtmar.me) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:48 | × | klardotsh quits (~klardotsh@c-71-231-242-112.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:48 | × | arw quits (~arw@impulse.informatik.uni-erlangen.de) (*.net *.split) |
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| 21:41:51 | × | TekShifter[m] quits (tekshifter@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-vmtswkcoigkpltha) (*.net *.split) |
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| 21:41:52 | × | madnight quits (~madnight@static.59.103.201.195.clients.your-server.de) (*.net *.split) |
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| 21:41:52 | × | heatsink quits (~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | xlei quits (znc@unaffiliated/xlei) (*.net *.split) |
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| 21:41:53 | × | m0rphism quits (~m0rphism@HSI-KBW-095-208-098-207.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | lazyshrk quits (~lazyshrk@128.199.58.13) (*.net *.split) |
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| 21:41:53 | × | alanz quits (sid110616@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hvvxxgjtvnddfyee) (*.net *.split) |
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| 21:41:53 | × | lightandlight quits (sid135476@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-giniijlnwbauwoqq) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | Firedancer quits (sid336191@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uafmnbgxlsfyadoa) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | runeks quits (sid21167@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tsqpbadbudnfxfmt) (*.net *.split) |
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| 21:41:53 | × | iphy quits (sid67735@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yrvorexjtguqopbo) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | Cir0X quits (sid221743@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ouxxoxkrtirtgzgf) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | benwr____ quits (sid372383@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ygzdfppyyhwzwtmh) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | darthThorik quits (sid39589@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cfzakqeypjuxmguy) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | nick_h quits (sid319833@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-putfzyymjdapnmta) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | thi quits (sid97277@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iakzqiyfoextftan) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | ProofTechnique quits (sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eksujsicoqugirny) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | aristid quits (sid1599@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ckvrkhwfnpsjpxkc) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | Nascha quits (sid212230@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mfmiwrmytvzpxdpd) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | drupol quits (sid117588@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zbnyabdlstrnoeuc) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | Hijiri quits (~Hijiri@104.236.61.10) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | lxsameer quits (~lxsameer@unaffiliated/lxsameer) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | revprez_anzio quits (~revprez_a@pool-108-49-213-40.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | hongminhee quits (~dahlia@207.148.91.209) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | lockshaw quits (~lockshaw@165.22.163.71) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | gienah quits (~mwright@gentoo/developer/gienah) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | Jonno_FTW quits (~come@api.carswap.me) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | keltono quits (~keltono@x-160-94-179-178.acm.umn.edu) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | juri_ quits (~juri@178.63.35.222) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | nerdypepper quits (nerdypeppe@152.67.160.69) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | [df] quits (~ben@51.15.198.140) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | eagleflo quits (~aku@eagleflow.fi) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | spoonm quits (spoonm@gunma.spoonm.org) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | Graypup_ quits (Graypup@lfcode.ca) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | t36s quits (~t36s@138.68.90.188) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | acro quits (~acro@unaffiliated/acro) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | cyphase quits (~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | bind quits (~bind@unaffiliated/bind) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | jmsx quits (~jordan@li1158-85.members.linode.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | matthew- quits (~matthew@smtp.wellquite.org) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:53 | × | iteratee quits (~kyle@162.211.154.4) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | jvsg quits (~root@165.227.89.139) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | xts quits (~ts@46.101.20.9) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | cow-orker quits (~foobar@pogostick.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | Logio quits (em@kapsi.fi) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | puffnfresh_ quits (~puffnfres@45.76.124.5) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | robogoat quits (~robogoat@209.195.0.146) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | Putonlalla quits (~sapekiis@it-cyan.it.jyu.fi) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | DustyDingo quits (~nonamen@v2202001112302107134.ultrasrv.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | suppi quits (~suppi@172.246.241.246) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | arianvp quits (~weechat@arianvp.me) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | tylerjl quits (~leothrix@elastic/staff/leothrix) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | towel quits (~towel@unaffiliated/towel) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | recon_- quits (~quassel@2602:febc:0:b6::6ca2) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | dhouthoo quits (~dhouthoo@ptr-eiv6509pb4ifhdr9lsd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | st8less quits (~st8less@2603:a060:11fd:0:e425:75f4:6a4e:b8f8) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | nbloomf_ quits (~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:e4ec:2d0a:6536:c606) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | shutdown_-h_now quits (~arjan@2001:1c06:2d0b:2312:c3b:76:7192:2636) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | kadoban quits (kadobanmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xrrstobtgwfnvduc) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | iinuwa quits (iinuwamatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xxskiprlcirzxiga) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | sureyeaah quits (shauryab98@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jedasmaebvvahvcj) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | fgaz quits (fgazmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-slmeyzgqwdnmdyrc) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | jokester quits (~mono@unaffiliated/jokester) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | jelleke quits (~jelle@2a01:7c8:aac1:50d:5054:ff:fe3b:9b7d) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | whataday quits (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | glguy quits (x@freenode/staff/haskell.developer.glguy) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | HiRE quits (~HiRE@2602:ffc5:20::1:512e) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | pong quits (chiya@2406:3003:2077:2341::babe) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | debugloop quits (~danieln@unaffiliated/debugloop) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | grol quits (~quassel@2620:11e:1000:2:250:56ff:fea4:7) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | komasa quits (~komasa@2a03:b0c0:3:d0::2097:6001) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | dixie quits (~dixie@real.wilbury.sk) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | relrod quits (~relrod@redhat/ansible.staff.relrod) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | dale quits (dale@unaffiliated/dale) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | machinedgod quits (~machinedg@207.253.244.210) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | cole-h quits (~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | dbmikus__ quits (~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | byorgey quits (~byorgey@155.138.238.211) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | texasmynsted quits (~texasmyns@185.229.59.103) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | crdrost quits (~crdrost@c-98-207-102-156.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | leungbk quits (~user@cpe-104-33-52-83.socal.res.rr.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | Tuplanolla quits (~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-239.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | urodna quits (~urodna@unaffiliated/urodna) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | acarrico quits (~acarrico@dhcp-68-142-39-249.greenmountainaccess.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | Rudd0 quits (~Rudd0@185.189.115.98) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | tromp quits (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | vk3wtf quits (~doc@203.221.224.44) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | tessier quits (~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | theDon quits (~td@muedsl-82-207-238-248.citykom.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | lagothrix quits (~lagothrix@unaffiliated/lagothrix) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | grumble quits (~Thunderbi@freenode/staff/grumble) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:54 | × | kipras quits (~Kipras@78-56-235-39.static.zebra.lt) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | apoc quits (~apoc@bridge.mattzq.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | monochrom quits (trebla@216.138.220.146) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | ambiso9 quits (~ambiso@209.182.239.205) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | mozzarella quits (~sam@unaffiliated/sam113101) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | bergsans quits (~bergsans@c80-217-8-29.bredband.comhem.se) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | sulu quits (~sulu@unaffiliated/sulu) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | L29Ah quits (~L29Ah@unaffiliated/l29ah) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | jrqc quits (~rofl@96.78.87.197) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | dcoutts_ quits (~duncan@33.14.75.194.dyn.plus.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | TommyC quits (~TommyC@unaffiliated/sepulchralbloom) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | bgamari quits (~bgamari@72.65.102.116) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | Jon quits (~jon@redmars.org) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | _deepfire quits (~user@80.92.100.69) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | NieDzejkob quits (~quassel@188.123.215.55) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | davl quits (~davl@207.154.228.18) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | johnstein quits (~johnstein@192.73.239.18) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | pacak quits (~pacak@bb116-14-220-91.singnet.com.sg) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | rzmt quits (~rzmt@87-92-180-112.rev.dnainternet.fi) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | twk- quits (~thewormki@unaffiliated/twk-) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | sajith quits (~sajith@fsf/member/nonzen) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | cods quits (~fred@tuxee.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | dopplergange quits (~dop@195.158.249.53) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | nek0 quits (~nek0@mail.nek0.eu) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | caubert quits (~mrbentari@207.246.80.112) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | jchia__ quits (~jchia@58.32.37.146) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | stiell quits (~stian@fsf/member/stiell) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | c-rog quits (~c-rog@traffic.simst.im) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | Cathy quits (~Cathy@unaffiliated/cathy) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | simplegauss quits (~simplegau@45.77.0.246) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | outerpassage quits (~outerpass@li1196-30.members.linode.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | dave_uy quits (~david@108.61.193.26) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:55 | × | joeytwiddle quits (~joeytwidd@162.243.115.31) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:56 | × | clog quits (~nef@bespin.org) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:56 | × | bcmiller quits (~bm3719@66.42.95.185) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:56 | × | gambpang_ quits (~gambpang@unaffiliated/gambpang) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:56 | × | clever quits (~clever@NixOS/user/clever) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:56 | × | luigy quits (~luigy@104.236.106.229) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:56 | × | Rudd0^ quits (~Rudd0@185.189.115.98) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:56 | × | centril quits (~centril@213-66-146-92-no250.tbcn.telia.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:56 | × | sh9 quits (~sh9@softbank060116136158.bbtec.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:56 | × | dddddd quits (~dddddd@unaffiliated/dddddd) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:56 | × | elfets quits (~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:56 | × | Sgeo quits (~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:56 | × | DavidEichmann quits (~david@43.240.198.146.dyn.plus.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:56 | × | coot quits (~coot@37.30.49.253.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:56 | × | hololeap quits (~hololeap@unaffiliated/hololeap) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:56 | × | dan64 quits (~dan64@dannyadam.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:56 | × | ystael quits (~ystael@209.6.50.55) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:56 | × | perrier-jouet quits (~perrier-j@modemcable012.251-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:56 | × | Benzi-Junior quits (~BenziJuni@dsl-149-67-198.hive.is) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:56 | × | samebchase- quits (~samebchas@51.15.68.182) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:56 | × | dcoutts__ quits (~duncan@33.14.75.194.dyn.plus.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:56 | × | mud quits (~mud@unaffiliated/kadoban) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:56 | × | Benett quits (~Benett@unaffiliated/benett) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:56 | × | Neuromancer quits (~Neuromanc@unaffiliated/neuromancer) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:56 | × | dxld quits (~dxld@80-109-136-248.cable.dynamic.surfer.at) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:56 | × | nurupo quits (~nurupo.ga@unaffiliated/nurupo) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:56 | × | Bergle_2 quits (~Bergle_4@101.165.90.119) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:56 | × | drewolson quits (~drewolson@64.227.24.16) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:56 | × | glamas quits (~glamas@107.182.17.237) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:56 | × | blackdog quits (~blackdog@198.211.112.85) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:56 | × | polux20013 quits (~polux@51.15.169.172) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | sdx32 quits (~sdx23@unaffiliated/sdx23) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | hexagoxel quits (~hexagoxel@hexagoxel.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | c_wraith quits (~c_wraith@adjoint.us) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | gremax quits (znc@torba.club) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | veverak quits (~squirrel@ip-89-102-98-161.net.upcbroadband.cz) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | Philonous quits (~Philonous@unaffiliated/philonous) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | thebnq quits (~bnq@herrokitty.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | Firedancer_ quits (~Firedance@178.62.203.79) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | atomi quits (~atomi@35.71.197.35.bc.googleusercontent.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | cjh` quits (chris@segfault.net.nz) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | Entroacceptor quits (~mad@mad.unserver.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | mantovani quits (~mantovani@104.131.207.121) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | swater quits (bouhier200@perso.iiens.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | shapr quits (~shapr@haskell/developer/shapr) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | Guest60204 quits (~michael@142.93.75.170) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | greymalkin quits (~greymalki@199.180.249.79) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | obiwahn quits (~obiwahn@pdpc/supporter/student/obiwahn) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | haveo quits (~haveo@sl35.iuwt.fr) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | xe4 quits (~xe4@unaffiliated/xe4) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | uberj quits (~uberj@unaffiliated/uberj) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | Sparadox quits (~etienne@ns3123347.ip-51-68-152.eu) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | mikolaj quits (~mikon@duch.mimuw.edu.pl) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | exferenceBot quits (~exference@hexagoxel.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | jkarni quits (~jkarni@116.203.146.226) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | fiddlerwoaroof quits (~fiddlerwo@unaffiliated/fiddlerwoaroof) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | jvanbure quits (~jvanbure@159.65.233.183) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | reda quits (~reda@unaffiliated/reda) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | heath quits (~heath@unaffiliated/ybit) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | gargawel quits (~gael@212.83.144.58) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | supki quits (~mt@188.166.74.67) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | lieven quits (~mal@unaffiliated/lieven) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | esotericalgo quits (~matt@fsf/member/esotericalgo) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | ChanServ quits (ChanServ@services.) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | miseenplace[m] quits (miseenplac@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-lvdnpqvjqjthlamh) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | jlv quits (jlvjustinl@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ocncxbunlvivmawj) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:57 | × | srid quits (sridmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qqeoewwaowpiqrub) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:58 | × | berberman[T] quits (berberma4@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-rqubmqczcsddvvhp) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:58 | × | kaychaks_riot quits (kaychaksma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-iwzuktiocfdsoxtf) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:58 | × | tersetears[m] quits (tersetears@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-klvqbdrwhsqyopcd) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:58 | × | sm quits (~user@li229-222.members.linode.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:58 | × | acidjnk_new quits (~acidjnk@p200300d0c718f6600567fd11fa2fcde0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:58 | × | rslima_____ quits (sid26145@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-txddsksmhveehsrq) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:58 | × | m-renaud quits (sid333785@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-juxddenpfgpoeigc) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:58 | × | kristjansson quits (sid126207@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rtjbrjzhlcogpoxy) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:58 | × | glowcoil quits (sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ywtzdmwgkfgphlzr) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:58 | × | whez quits (sid470288@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-izvwsjinqbiccect) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:58 | × | amatecha__ quits (sid10006@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kzvefycrrmalzbls) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:58 | × | mcfilib_ quits (sid302703@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-riwkfcukospcncdx) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:58 | × | bitonic quits (sid61915@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nurphsregtkooaez) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:58 | × | JSharp quits (sid4580@wikia/JSharp) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:58 | × | angerman quits (sid209936@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vpzhonusupvskvmg) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:58 | × | mankyKitty quits (sid31287@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hipdokcciegrtmbw) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:58 | × | jesser[m] quits (jessermatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xmfuuihwzdmwsxri) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:58 | × | Noughtmare[m] quits (naughtmare@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qgtfxiblcqwqvpjv) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:58 | × | alexfmpe quits (alexfmpema@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pkjrfqmejbphovey) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:58 | × | ComaGrayce[m] quits (commagrays@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kdchjrsktdbjqvop) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | ttc quits (tomtauma1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-uquqcxspyycbvjvf) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | themsay[m] quits (themsaymat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ujpukaorocjskeoi) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | PotatoHatsue quits (berbermanp@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-hixqfsukphxkizxv) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | dilinger quits (~dilinger@spindle.queued.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | tms_ quits (thomaav@cassarossa.samfundet.no) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | krjst quits (~krjst@2604:a880:800:c1::16b:8001) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | APic quits (apic@apic.name) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | tinwood quits (~tinwood@general.default.akavanagh.uk0.bigv.io) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | Reiser quits (~0a2a0001@unaffiliated/reisen) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | Athas quits (athas@sigkill.dk) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | fredcy quits (~fredcy@mail.yankowski.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | noan quits (~noan@2604:a880:400:d0::12fc:5001) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | gnumonic_ quits (~gnumonic@c-73-170-91-210.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | wagle quits (~wagle@quassel.wagle.io) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | aplainzetakind quits (~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | p3n_ quits (~p3n@2a00:19a0:3:7c:0:d9c6:7cf6:1) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | zopsi_ quits (zopsi@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe14:551f) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | berberman_ quits (~berberman@unaffiliated/berberman) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | nshepperd2 quits (~nshepperd@li364-218.members.linode.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | polyphem quits (~p0lyph3m@2a02:810d:640:776c:76d7:55f6:f85b:c889) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | natechan quits (~natechan@108-233-125-227.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | PlasmaStar quits (plasma@unaffiliated/plasmastar) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | koz_ quits (~koz@2404:4408:4309:2700:da5c:eaf0:b1a:194b) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | srhb quits (sid400352@NixOS/user/srhb) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | lemmih quits (~lemmih@2406:3003:2072:44:45cb:65e7:796d:adde) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | BIG_JIMMY_D quits (~jim@108.61.185.76) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | benjamingr__ quits (uid23465@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jujlikfcmwauxivg) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | sveit quits (~sveit@2001:19f0:ac01:247:5400:ff:fe5c:689f) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | ixian quits (~mgold@terra.bitplane.org) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | dusty_pacer quits (~pi@2600:6c50:80:2f4a:e9d0:6569:1cea:d1d4) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | Kamuela quits (sid111576@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bphhyywmrokmqdlb) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | joel135 quits (sid136450@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dkytwygqyubmegrp) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | SrPx quits (sid108780@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-htoyitviijeanpkh) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | PotatoGim quits (sid99505@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xcqktytbackydsev) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | ocharles quits (sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | pepeiborra quits (sid443799@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qimnexanhdwpswoz) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | edwinb quits (sid69486@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-elzwlqpwvreqnrml) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | ReinH__ quits (sid179972@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sdlypohklafvyaji) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:41:59 | × | johs quits (sid246410@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kzxpikhjkxlgpcaf) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | alunduil quits (alunduil@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uvppjsitsccsdxlk) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | drbrule quits (sid395654@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vjqqnrysmaxqrzkw) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | natim87 quits (sid286962@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uifctbbgftadercs) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | d0liver quits (sid363046@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kkcazzfyjgmdigdk) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | elvishjerricco quits (sid237756@NixOS/user/ElvishJerricco) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | aizen_s quits (sid462968@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qmulgqtgjenqdcha) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | carter quits (sid14827@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ibvrelberchglxhy) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | tchar quits (sid301738@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xddtoyyurmxjtavh) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | koankeeper quits (sid216950@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hjizfwywoqrskybo) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | wildsebastian quits (sid324688@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ectvsfeiiygtpxsd) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | eruditass quits (uid248673@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-onjuwmppppmuaqzi) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | edmundnoble quits (sid229620@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ehmqsocqyidpgjbk) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | nlofaro quits (sid258233@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-euteclalytxdvjpl) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | ebutleriv quits (sid217783@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ckocvqheirpnpehl) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | ^[ quits (sid43445@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/sixth/zgrep) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | FMJz____ quits (sid279245@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-obdwznzoluazipat) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | sclv quits (sid39734@haskell/developer/sclv) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | NemesisD quits (sid24071@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-djyvkklsuqfzcevy) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | rizary quits (sid220347@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kpnwyrewkhnqnyhk) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | jetpack_joe quits (sid146137@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vmgmkyseyzxdizaw) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | pasukon quits (sid49097@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-naqadmmjejtzyxsk) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | nh2 quits (sid309956@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-newgxrpdrbwqztzy) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | banjiewen_ quits (sid115913@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pwjllhheogrzlube) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | alinab quits (uid468903@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xcymeicsljvzypjb) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | gluegadget quits (sid22336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dtblqsqvfgxmasgf) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | andi- quits (~andi-@NixOS/user/andi-) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | ByronJohnson quits (~bairyn@unaffiliated/bob0) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | kav quits (~kari@dsl-hkibng42-56733f-225.dhcp.inet.fi) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | ezzieyguywuf quits (~Unknown@unaffiliated/ezzieyguywuf) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | immae quits (~immae@2a01:4f8:141:53e7::) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | sphalerite quits (~sphalerit@NixOS/user/lheckemann) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | raid_ quits (macbookpro@irc-1.coding4.coffee) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | haasn quits (~nand@mpv/developer/haasn) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | Klumben quits (Nsaiswatch@gateway/shell/panicbnc/x-mkcnlvblwjhyiwoj) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | PyroLagus quits (PyroLagus@i.have.ipv6.on.coding4coffee.org) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | yumh quits (~yumh@mail.xglobe.in) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | bendo quits (~bendo@130.61.122.121) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | ManiacTwister quits (~Twister@2a01:4f8:171:4de::40:2) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | xsarnik0 quits (xsarnik@gateway/shell/fi.muni.cz/x-yblszgqjzlcrgkag) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | strangeglyph quits (~strangegl@boreeas.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | hc quits (~hc@bsd.pm) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | seveg quits (~gabriel@2a02-ab04-0249-8d00-7d49-c4e2-4790-91c2.dynamic.v6.chello.sk) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | dexterfoo quits (dexter@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fe86:59ec) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | unlink_ quits (~unlink2@p57b85d53.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | tstat quits (~tstat@165.227.66.131) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | ft quits (~ft@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | remexre quits (~nathan@207-153-38-50.fttp.usinternet.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | gecko_ quits (~gecko@2001:19f0:5:10f4:5400:3ff:fe0f:15cb) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | chaosmasttter quits (~chaosmast@p200300c4a708720194f08e63d4a8ce76.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | Amras quits (~Amras@unaffiliated/amras0000) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:00 | × | tdhttt quits (~tdhttt@2600:8802:2203:2500:24c4:3660:b516:981e) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:01 | × | otulp quits (~otulp@ti0187q162-6038.bb.online.no) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:01 | × | DeadComaGrayce[m quits (commagra1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-noidmvosphatipsa) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:01 | × | jkaye[m] quits (jkayematri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xtwtcthsyrpjxlgx) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:01 | × | zerstroyer[m] quits (zerstroyer@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fjjxkkdhwczwidmj) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:01 | × | domenkozar[m] quits (domenkozar@NixOS/user/domenkozar) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:01 | × | yushyin quits (bSs9syBAug@karif.server-speed.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:01 | × | enikar quits (~enikar@2001:41d0:2:8673::42) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:01 | × | bscarlet quits (~benjamin@forest.greynode.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:01 | × | Madars quits (~null@unaffiliated/madars) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:01 | × | fl0_id quits (~fl0_id@2a01:4f8:171:4de::40:2) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:01 | × | jackhill quits (~jackhill@marsh.hcoop.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:01 | × | rdivacky quits (~rdivacky@212.96.173.4) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:01 | × | orcus quits (~orcus@unaffiliated/orcus) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:01 | × | bsima quits (~bsima@simatime.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:01 | × | Flonk quits (~Flonk@ec2-52-40-29-25.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:01 | × | bobbytables quits (~bobbytabl@ec2-44-224-191-138.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:01 | × | digia quits (~digia@unaffiliated/digia) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:01 | × | Orbstheorem quits (~roosember@hellendaal.orbstheorem.ch) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:01 | × | lolmac quits (sid171216@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-plzbdzhieclxlfgh) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:01 | × | taktoa[c] quits (sid282096@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-itxakgqwhnqkbebe) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:01 | × | milessabin quits (sid86799@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ascncjvecpuyiyrz) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:01 | × | hazard-pointer quits (sid331723@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wwsxwkmcbnytyqgp) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:01 | × | dani- quits (sid341953@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-etuikjdqhtlxnikg) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:01 | × | kyagrd__ quits (sid102627@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fmxliclmtnkycstb) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:01 | × | ghuntley quits (sid16877@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qztbkgafmugcryxi) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | wanaks[m] quits (wanaksmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-tghlzmezifnrojup) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | dyniec[m] quits (dyniecmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-upsuponuotpjoctt) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | pqwy[m] quits (pqwymatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jqnrqlrbhxhwmhbz) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | michaelpj quits (michaelpjm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-uoyfjnxjprdtbaxo) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | lambdaclan quits (lambdaclan@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wbdwuytzeyqyapvd) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | sm[m] quits (simonmicma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wzcoftslnufebjph) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | maralorn quits (maralornma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-esbyrtfclugulpku) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | Fernando-Basso[m quits (fernando-b@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xirzymulqroruhsm) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | hsiktas[m] quits (hsiktasmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zwvdtyuxfxztfmkc) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | psydruid quits (psydruidma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-etfvogphrizepbip) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | heredoc quits (heredoc@2a01:7e01::f03c:91ff:fec1:de1d) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | martin02 quits (silas@hund.fs.lmu.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | hyiltiz-M quits (hyiltizkde@gateway/shell/kde/matrix/x-zvgetfbstubrdqzf) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | rawles quits (~r@unaffiliated/rawles) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | _flow_ quits (~none@salem.informatik.uni-erlangen.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | noCheese quits (~nocheese@unaffiliated/nocheese) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | joeyh_ quits (joeyh@kitenet.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | thonkpod quits (~thonkpod@2001:19f0:ac01:b46:5400:1ff:fec7:d73d) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | opqdonut quits (opqdonut@pseudo.fixme.fi) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | alp quits (~alp@2a01:e0a:58b:4920:1845:95d6:9c3f:6683) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | cosimone quits (~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:d849:743b:370b:b3cd) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | hnOsmium0001 quits (uid453710@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zzpyrrbxxyzgpyxs) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | bitmapper quits (uid464869@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fojftpzadtahwsbd) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | bitmagie quits (~Thunderbi@200116b8060ca30071501286c6dd94a1.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | camlriot42 quits (camlriotma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ewwnkepahqtrgtjd) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | Taneb quits (~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | ericsagn1 quits (~ericsagne@2405:6580:0:5100:c30c:e109:135c:6061) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | Raito_Bezarius quits (~Raito@unaffiliated/raito-bezarius/x-8764578) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | adamse quits (sid72084@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gugbiavtvejuwlop) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | billstclair quits (sid77830@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gmocwseudwezmlvo) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | enemeth79 quits (sid309041@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-caupormkuhtvjyua) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | verlet64_ quits (sid261276@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eieynnxuwbvgyafz) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | teehemkay quits (sid14792@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oyaopddsariqskvr) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | chessai quits (sid225296@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kavvwgqdexvffjul) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | tiru quits (tiru@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nnjznofsaufhsulw) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | fiadliel quits (sid399568@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xbmjzphrjjyfrdoz) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:02 | × | pent quits (sid313808@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xqrqvlzrksrgsiqc) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:03 | × | coeus quits (~coeus@p200300d0273fc6004bc0c1d283592f2f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:03 | × | Cale quits (~cale@cpef48e38ee8583-cm0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:03 | × | gawen quits (~gawen@movzbl.root.sx) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:03 | × | bqv quits (~bqv@2a02:8010:674f:0:d65d:64ff:fe52:5efe) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:03 | × | hyiltiz quits (~quassel@unaffiliated/hyiltiz) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:03 | × | liff quits (liff@kapsi.fi) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:03 | × | drozdziak1 quits (drozdziak1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-bgqlrpniadgtdery) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:03 | × | rednaZ[m] quits (r3dnazmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-uibvjwmgioaohlzd) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:03 | × | ThaEwat quits (thaewraptm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-edykdyerrvrnrhhy) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:03 | × | thunderrd quits (~thunderrd@183.182.112.251) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:03 | × | gabiruh quits (~gabiruh@vps19177.publiccloud.com.br) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:03 | × | elliott_ quits (~elliott_@pool-108-51-141-12.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:03 | × | LKoen quits (~LKoen@77.174.9.109.rev.sfr.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:03 | × | mnrmnaughmnrgle quits (~mnrmnaugh@unaffiliated/mnrmnaugh) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:03 | × | Varis quits (~Tadas@unaffiliated/varis) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:03 | × | Feuermagier_ quits (~Feuermagi@213.178.26.41) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:03 | × | star_cloud quits (~star_clou@ec2-34-217-37-165.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:03 | × | daGrevis quits (~daGrevis@unaffiliated/dagrevis) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:03 | × | Foritus quits (~buggery@cpc91316-watf11-2-0-cust68.15-2.cable.virginm.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:03 | × | thecoffemaker quits (~thecoffem@unaffiliated/thecoffemaker) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:03 | × | ridcully quits (~ridcully@p57b5259e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:03 | × | pfurla quits (~pfurla@ool-182ed2e2.dyn.optonline.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:03 | × | rdivyanshu quits (sid322626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yyvemamxcxrcinrm) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:03 | × | stylewarning quits (stylewarni@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mqhdosxrfptcncnx) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:03 | × | ryjm quits (sid383513@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aavthkgvqaggakcc) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:03 | × | averell quits (~averell@unaffiliated/averell) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:03 | × | Inoperable quits (~PLAYER_1@fancydata.science) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:03 | × | brisbin quits (~patrick@pool-173-49-158-4.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:03 | × | totte quits (~totte@chakra/totte) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:03 | × | jassob quits (~jassob@korrob.vth.sgsnet.se) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | johnw quits (~johnw@haskell/developer/johnw) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | xsperry quits (~as@unaffiliated/xsperry) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | hvr quits (~hvr@haskell/developer/hvr) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | ps-auxw quits (~arneb@p548d571d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | munsel quits (~munsel@v22018094214772867.hotsrv.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | eedgit quits (~eedgit@95.179.237.21) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | atraii quits (~atraii@c-98-32-64-84.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | hackage quits (mniip@haskell/bot/hackage) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | dolio quits (~dolio@haskell/developer/dolio) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | Uniaika quits (~uniaika@163.172.211.189) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | a3Dman quits (~3Dman@unaffiliated/a3dman) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | kini quits (~kini@unaffiliated/kini) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | Xnuk quits (~xnuk@45.76.202.58) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | nh quits (~NextHendr@unaffiliated/nexthendrix) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | amosbird quits (~amosbird@13.75.119.182) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | quintasan quits (~quassel@ubuntu/member/quintasan) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | gareth__ quits (~gareth__@104.236.161.134) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | questionmarkking quits (~questionm@165.227.7.85) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | dminuoso quits (~dminuoso@unaffiliated/dminuoso) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | xarian_ quits (~xarian@104.236.81.162) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | rkrishnan quits (~rkrishnan@rkrishnan.org) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | MasseR quits (~MasseR@51.15.143.128) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | niklasb_ quits (~niklasb@unaffiliated/codeslay0r) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | adaj quits (~azureuser@51.103.155.240) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | zgrep quits (~zgrep@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/sixth/zgrep) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | duckonomy quits (~duckonomy@177.ip-144-217-84.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | zzz quits (~zzz@46.101.134.251) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | Tourist quits (~tourist@unaffiliated/tourist) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | geal quits (~geal@195-154-200-217.rev.poneytelecom.eu) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | NGravity quits (csp@gateway/shell/xshellz/x-zzfgzhhirbsduhrr) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | shachaf quits (~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | raoul quits (~raoulhida@nomnomnomnom.co.uk) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | jakalx quits (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | Dykam quits (Dykam@dykam.nl) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | dh quits (dh@bsd.ee) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | add^_ quits (~add@tutu.vovoid.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | Squarism quits (~someone@unaffiliated/squarism) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | statusbot quits (~statusbot@ec2-34-198-122-184.compute-1.amazonaws.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | haskell_enthusia quits (~twain@168.61.46.105) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | malthe quits (~mborch@46.101.103.63) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | Zemyla quits (~zemyla@ec2-54-196-11-2.compute-1.amazonaws.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | piele quits (~piele@tbonesteak.creativeserver.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | w1gz quits (~do@159.89.11.133) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | electrocat quits (~michiel@revan.derhaeg.be) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | anderson quits (~ande@159.65.95.130) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | msgctl quits (~msgctl@ometochtli.centzontotochtin.org) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | deni quits (~deni@unaffiliated/deni) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | djanatyn quits (~djanatyn@ec2-18-209-155-56.compute-1.amazonaws.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | reyu quits (~reyu@znc.reyuzenfold.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | Eliel quits (~jojkaart@163.172.153.251) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | vimto1 quits (~vimto@unaffiliated/vimto) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | TMA quits (tma@twin.jikos.cz) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | Kaivo quits (~Kaivo@104-200-86-99.mc.derytele.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:04 | × | jlamothe quits (~jlamothe@198.251.55.207) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:05 | × | dmiles quits (dmiles@c-73-67-179-188.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:05 | × | alx741 quits (~alx741@186.178.110.202) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:05 | × | noecho quits (~noecho@static.143.42.203.116.clients.your-server.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:05 | × | brettgilio quits (~brettgili@brettgilio.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:05 | × | xerox_ quits (~xerox@unaffiliated/xerox) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:05 | × | Kaiepi quits (~Kaiepi@nwcsnbsc03w-47-55-225-82.dhcp-dynamic.fibreop.nb.bellaliant.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:05 | × | kjak quits (~kjak@pool-173-73-38-16.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:05 | × | hpc quits (~juzz@ip98-169-35-13.dc.dc.cox.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:05 | × | edwtjo quits (~edwtjo@fsf/member/edwtjo) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:05 | × | tv quits (~tv@unaffiliated/tv) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:05 | × | jdt quits (~jdt@208.85.233.130) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:05 | × | fre quits (~freusque@104.238.190.229) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:05 | × | adamCS quits (~adamCS@ec2-34-207-160-255.compute-1.amazonaws.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:05 | × | dwt quits (~dwt@c-98-200-58-177.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:05 | × | rotty quits (rotty@ghost.xx.vu) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:05 | × | jrm quits (~jrm@freebsd/developer/jrm) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:05 | × | dragestil quits (~quassel@185.137.175.104) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:05 | × | nyaomi quits (~naomi@cpe-74-75-6-125.maine.res.rr.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:05 | × | Ranhir quits (~Ranhir@157.97.53.139) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:05 | × | sajith_ quits (~sajith@fsf/member/nonzen) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:05 | × | Jajik quits (xchlup2@gateway/shell/fi.muni.cz/x-hwurnratxvflmvcz) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:05 | × | qz quits (~quetzal@li272-85.members.linode.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:05 | × | pie_ quits (~pie_bnc]@unaffiliated/pie-/x-0787662) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:05 | × | vancz quits (~vancz@unaffiliated/vancz) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:05 | × | [exa] quits (exa@unaffiliated/exa/x-5381537) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:05 | × | sqrt2 quits (~ben@unaffiliated/sqrt2) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:05 | × | oldsk00l quits (~znc@ec2-18-130-254-135.eu-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:05 | × | maerwald quits (~maerwald@5.45.98.221) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:05 | × | connrs_ quits (~connrs@runciter.connrs.uk) (*.net *.split) |
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| 21:42:05 | × | Papa quits (~papa@unaffiliated/papa) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:05 | × | le_jonge quits (jonge@kofferbomber.org) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:05 | × | mmaruseacph2 quits (~mihai@198.199.100.72) (*.net *.split) |
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| 21:42:06 | × | hiredman quits (~hiredman@volyova.ec2.thelastcitadel.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | ViCi quits (daniel@10PLM.ro) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | {abby} quits (~{abby}@unaffiliated/demhydraz) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | SquidDev quits (~SquidDev@autoclave.squiddev.cc) (*.net *.split) |
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| 21:42:06 | × | pharaun quits (~pharaun@static.88-198-62-245.clients.your-server.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | Deewiant quits (~deewiant@de1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | ring0` quits (~ringo@unaffiliated/ring0/x-8667941) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | e2 quits (e2@sponsored.by.bnc4you.xyz) (*.net *.split) |
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| 21:42:06 | × | absence quits (tZ0t25MWsB@hildring.pvv.ntnu.no) (*.net *.split) |
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| 21:42:06 | × | chirpsalot quits (~Chirps@pool-98-115-239-235.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | kqr quits (~kqr@vps.xkqr.org) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | rookie101 quits (~rookie@207.154.204.166) (*.net *.split) |
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| 21:42:06 | × | hyperfekt quits (end@bnc.hyperfekt.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | borne quits (~fritjof@200116b864a609004fbf5cd6c83663b1.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | howdoi quits (uid224@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dhscxibpvyjxdjig) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | Sheilong quits (uid293653@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-httqaqxfpjaazrtn) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | Vq quits (~vq@90-227-195-41-no77.tbcn.telia.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | kozowu quits (uid44796@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dylrnyglhpjycwlc) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | typetetris quits (sid275937@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hwvkvbbozbkfoprj) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | graingert quits (sid128301@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vdjsitqmvxctmmid) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | chrpape` quits (~user@2a01:4f9:c010:632d::1) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | Katarushisu quits (~Katarushi@cpc149712-finc20-2-0-cust535.4-2.cable.virginm.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | cocreature quits (~cocreatur@eirene.uberspace.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | dftxbs3e quits (~dftxbs3e@unaffiliated/dftxbs3e) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | newhoggy quits (sid198874@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-terspefkrxdigoxr) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | davetapley quits (sid666@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vyeiyfxfsraauowv) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | scav quits (sid309693@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oovxzuxjybuelhjk) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | benl23 quits (sid284234@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nkfumgpyqgaploty) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | gaze__ quits (sid387101@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dzzzzpxfnvpkwdhs) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | simony quits (sid226116@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wzcrwnktljnyyivi) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | eacameron quits (sid256985@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kkrohjugegafrkxc) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | gregberns_ quits (sid315709@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ytsmrswniuqtuqcd) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | alexknvl quits (sid259568@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hdmczryidxkpwdtp) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | chpatrick quits (sid239395@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qcgsvtfujmzclzre) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | buggymcbugfix quits (sid432603@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rqdusgvomktjpfec) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | acertain quits (sid470584@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lxulhxxapsiocsfs) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | edwardk quits (sid47016@haskell/developer/edwardk) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | bradparker quits (sid262931@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hcrjjmdklhbtocmc) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | ajmcmiddlin quits (sid284402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-czsnahqqucihfqdx) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | liszt_ quits (sid336875@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sjbstzgazctrjiml) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | cstrahan quits (sid36118@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-twkbvtvjppokxmel) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | dgpratt quits (sid193493@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ckplobyhmsyazopr) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | kip quits (sid71464@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-idrkkvdsplxgbbpn) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | Adeon quits (sid418992@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zshgawryroibgclt) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | tnks quits (sid412124@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-foyfefzalmzctfnv) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | idnar quits (sid12240@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wvmmnuuotscagfyx) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | wpcarro quits (sid397589@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yrrbrsudnjmjbakp) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | yogani quits (sid42623@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xmbuoxasmdpiyyri) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | dsal quits (sid13060@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lwnzsoovbcvhdctt) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | lally quits (sid388228@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zbzgkwpcudviljpk) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | grfn quits (sid449115@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-srwltizlxwnoqbuo) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | moobar quits (sid171730@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ctnyphywvjgsbjzl) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | PoliticsII______ quits (sid193551@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-axomckqlurkcrgnc) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | adius quits (sid321344@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uuhxlducjizxfavl) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:06 | × | Tritlo quits (sid58727@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dlcmyhezzzrcdorg) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:07 | × | bjobjo quits (~bjobjo@2a01:79c:cebf:d688::9e6) (*.net *.split) |
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| 21:42:07 | × | mflux quits (flux@coffee.modeemi.fi) (*.net *.split) |
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| 21:42:07 | × | sis7_ quits (~user@2001:15e8:110:473e::1) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:07 | × | Takumo quits (takumo@unaffiliated/takumokatekari) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:07 | × | vqrs quits (~vqrs@learnprogramming/regular/vqrs) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:07 | × | mursu quits (~ngWalrus@2a03:b0c0:3:d0::5ebd:2001) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:07 | × | noexcept_ quits (~noexcept@2a03:b0c0:3:d0::33:9001) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:07 | × | nikola3 quits (~nikola@2a03:b0c0:2:d0::dc2:c001) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:07 | × | jiribenes quits (~jiribenes@rosa.jiribenes.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:07 | × | xacktm quits (xacktm@gateway/shell/panicbnc/x-wtuwnbsvfqpgvaqk) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:07 | × | incognito9999 quits (~incognito@hwsrv-648981.hostwindsdns.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:07 | × | Randy quits (randy@freebsd/user/randy) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:07 | × | Iroha quits (~Dykomii@2607:5300:60:336a::1) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:07 | × | balbirs quits (~balbirs__@bilbo.ozlabs.org) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:07 | × | cheers quits (user@unaffiliated/cheers) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:07 | × | a3f quits (~a3f@chimeria.ext.pengutronix.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:07 | × | operand quits (~operand@is.altijd.moe) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:07 | × | lucas8 quits (~luc@2001:41d0:8:109c::1) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:07 | × | magog quits (~wee@unaffiliated/magog) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:07 | × | kkd quits (~memxor@unaffiliated/kartikeya) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:07 | × | rom1504 quits (rom1504@rom1504.fr) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:07 | × | beaky quits (~beaky@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::17cf:7003) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:07 | × | lisq quits (~quassel@lis.moe) (*.net *.split) |
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| 21:42:07 | × | eldritch quits (~eldritch@unaffiliated/eldritch) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:07 | × | hexic quits (hexo@base48.cz) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:07 | × | Adluc quits (Adluc@base48.cz) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:07 | × | saidinwot1 quits (~saidinwot@2604:a880:2:d0::50:8001) (*.net *.split) |
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| 21:42:07 | × | taurux quits (~taurux@net-188-152-78-21.cust.vodafonedsl.it) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:07 | × | fendor quits (~fendor@77.119.130.20.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:07 | × | ishutin_ quits (~Ishutin@91-83-11-228.pool.digikabel.hu) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:07 | × | evanjs quits (~evanjs@075-129-098-007.res.spectrum.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:07 | × | __monty__ quits (~toonn@unaffiliated/toonn) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:07 | × | FreeBirdLjj quits (~freebirdl@101.228.42.108) (*.net *.split) |
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| 21:42:08 | × | asnyx quits (~asnyx@brettgilio.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | eyenx quits (~eyenxeyen@unaffiliated/eye/x-1653358) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | noctux quits (~noctux@unaffiliated/noctux) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | keep_learning quits (~keep_lear@43.231.26.152) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | Codaraxis_ quits (~Codaraxis@ip68-5-90-227.oc.oc.cox.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | joehillen quits (~joehillen@unaffiliated/joehillen) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | Solarion quits (~solarion@fsf/member/solarion) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | poljar quits (~poljar@93-139-70-179.adsl.net.t-com.hr) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | laxask quits (~lax@unaffiliated/laxask) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | uwap_ quits (~uwap@genja.uwap.name) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | tristanC quits (~tristanC@unaffiliated/tristanc) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | lep-delete quits (~lep@94.31.83.149) (*.net *.split) |
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| 21:42:08 | × | verement quits (~anonymous@cpe-76-167-229-223.san.res.rr.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | obfusk quits (~quassel@a82-161-150-56.adsl.xs4all.nl) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | tureba quits (~tureba@tureba.org) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | Cheery quits (~cheery@7-239-179-185.static.tentacle.fi) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | magicman quits (~tchakkazu@static-47-180-28-65.lsan.ca.frontiernet.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | blissful quits (~azuline@unaffiliated/azuline) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | texasmynsted_ quits (~texasmyns@99.96.221.112) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | mrchampion quits (~mrchampio@216-211-57-41.dynamic.tbaytel.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | tolt quits (~weechat-h@li219-154.members.linode.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | wowi42_ quits (~wowi42@51.15.249.183) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | morbeus quits (vhamalai@gateway/shell/tkk.fi/x-ufpngpdloddgzoih) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | RecursiveG quits (~recursive@li810-210.members.linode.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | nopf quits (~frosch@static.179.17.76.144.clients.your-server.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | davve quits (davve@bsd.douchedata.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | dqd quits (id@wikipedia/dqd) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | saurik quits (saurik@carrier.saurik.com) (*.net *.split) |
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| 21:42:08 | × | devalot quits (~ident@mail.pmade.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | m1dnight_ quits (~m1dnight@188.ip-51-91-158.eu) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | karolus quits (~karolus@static.32.230.217.95.clients.your-server.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | thaumavorio quits (~thaumavor@thaumavor.io) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | filwisher quits (~filwisher@78.141.201.45) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | dagnabbit quits (~thelounge@140.82.8.179) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | mort quits (~mort96@snow/mort96) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:08 | × | s4msung quits (XqcfcDRHGx@karif.server-speed.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | epta quits (~m@nuda.space) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | EvanR quits (~evan@unaffiliated/evanr) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | janne quits (~janne@punainen.org) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | energizer quits (~energizer@unaffiliated/energizer) (*.net *.split) |
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| 21:42:09 | × | Drezil quits (~sdressel@pwning.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | ahf quits (ahf@irssi/staff/ahf) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | lnx quits (~irssi@167.71.7.27) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | kloeri quits (~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | renzhi quits (~renzhi@2607:fa49:655f:e600::28da) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | `slikts quits (~nelabs@wikipedia/reinis) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | pjb quits (~t@2a01cb04063ec50054866239aff0100c.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | integral quits (sid296274@p3m/member/integral) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | Boarders quits (sid425905@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dubpmndbjgfmwzls) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | lexi-lambda quits (sid92601@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fanmypdregedhpxu) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | cvlad- quits (sid203065@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kgwwtdcwktijsmay) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | hamishmack quits (sid389057@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qcqdptgzivzgrpwu) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | parseval quits (sid239098@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sburcdiemgwzsqhs) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | zincy_ quits (~tom@2a00:23c8:970a:3501:d0cd:312d:55de:c707) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | Wojciech_K quits (~wojciechk@2001:41d0:a:5be4::449) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | loprakoa[m] quits (loprakoama@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-efkcigrtbzrnbnzq) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | betrion[m] quits (betrionmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kjxsujwoqdjukewx) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | texasmynsted[m]1 quits (mmynstedko@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-sbtmbpamgfechbux) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | jeffcasavant[m] quits (jeffcasava@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ydnhcjbfaimoibji) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | PotatoHatsue|T quits (berbermanm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fuqecmssbwcwxfrb) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | bonvoyage[m] quits (bonvoyageu@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wmphllysplyhuojb) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | micahsovereign[m quits (micahsover@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zqfuexwrnelqnfbx) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | jtojnar quits (jtojnarmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-grllgvjiiizziklg) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | unclechu quits (unclechuma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-rgjtexmubckaxtft) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | johnnyboy[m] quits (gifumatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-lixmcfpcxrvpqkwa) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | jjhoo quits (jahakala@dsl-trebng21-b048b5-171.dhcp.inet.fi) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | megaTherion quits (~therion@unix.io) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | suzu_ quits (~scaleuser@2001:bc8:1824:43f::1) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | darjeeling_ quits (~darjeelin@122.245.210.116) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | son0p quits (~son0p@181.136.122.143) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | Iceland_jack quits (~user@95.149.219.123) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | zebrag quits (~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-88-189.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | _linker_ quits (~linker@185.12.21.77) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | wz1000 quits (~wz1000@static.11.113.47.78.clients.your-server.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | Chi1thangoo quits (~Chi1thang@87.112.60.168) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | carlomagno quits (~cararell@148.87.23.10) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | Jesin quits (~Jesin@pool-72-66-101-18.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | nitrix quits (~nitrix@haskell/developer/nitrix) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | yahb quits (xsbot@haskell/bot/yahb) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:09 | × | CitizenSnips quits (~CitizenSn@irc.refl.club) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | Geekingfrog quits (~geekingfr@li2156-64.members.linode.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | aldum quits (~vishera@aldum.pw) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | DTZUZU quits (~DTZUZU@205.ip-149-56-132.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | jchia1 quits (~jchia@58.32.71.83) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | StoneToad_ quits (~StoneToad@199-167-119-135.ppp.storm.ca) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | marble_visions quits (~user@68.183.79.8) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | cynick quits (~worm@ec2-52-206-86-1.compute-1.amazonaws.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | bob_twinkles quits (~quassel@ec2-52-37-66-13.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | agrif quits (~agrif@overviewer/dev/agrif) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | icebreaker quits (michalc@unaffiliated/icebreaker) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | jonatan quits (~nate@h77-53-70-163.cust.a3fiber.se) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | sdrodge quits (~sdrodge@unaffiliated/sdrodge) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | cohn quits (~noone@unaffiliated/cohn) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | leah2 quits (~leah@vuxu.org) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | nckx quits (~nckx@tobias.gr) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | tv- quits (~tv@unaffiliated/tv-) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | sim590 quits (~sim590@modemcable090.207-203-24.mc.videotron.ca) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | quaestor quits (~quaestor@griffith.christophrauch.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | jtobin quits (~jtobin@li1555-212.members.linode.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | wraithm quits (~wraithm@unaffiliated/wraithm) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | cpape quits (~user@static.180.18.203.116.clients.your-server.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | Khisanth quits (~Khisanth@166.sub-174-197-147.myvzw.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | Moyst quits (~moyst@212-149-213-144.bb.dnainternet.fi) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | stefan-_ quits (~cri@42dots.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | oats quits (~hurr@durr/im/a/sheep) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | int-e quits (~noone@int-e.eu) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | carldd quits (~carldd@90-224-49-113-no56.tbcn.telia.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | patrick1 quits (~tarpk@ool-182dc9b3.dyn.optonline.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | urdh quits (~urdh@unaffiliated/urdh) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | esg quits (~emil@esg.xen.prgmr.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | CindyLinz quits (~cindy_utf@112.121.78.20) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | quicksilver quits (~jules@roobarb.crazydogs.org) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | Clint quits (~Clint@libre.fm/hacker/clint) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | bollu quits (~bollu@139.59.46.74) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | dwts quits (pid@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-hdcyxbuhngzudhpp) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | orzo quits (joe@lasker.childrenofmay.org) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | comboy quits (~quassel@tesuji.pl) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | myme quits (~myme@li1406-121.members.linode.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | ornxka quits (~ornxka@unaffiliated/ornx) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | landonf quits (landonf@mac68k.info) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | rednaZ2 quits (rednaZ2@freebnc.bnc4you.xyz) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | noctuks quits (LXxZtpfPfM@unaffiliated/noctux) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | Guest2620 quits (~Christoph@chezlefab.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:10 | × | reactormonk quits (~reactormo@mehl.schokokeks.org) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | canta quits (~canta@cvm0.d5k.one) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | ben_m quits (~ben_m@unaffiliated/ben-m/x-8385872) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | bandali quits (~bandali@fsf/interns/bandali) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | so quits (~so@unaffiliated/so) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | koala_man quits (~vidar@unaffiliated/koala-man/x-2491903) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | kaol quits (~kaol@178.62.241.234) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | peutri quits (~peutri@ns317027.ip-94-23-46.eu) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | Ariakenom quits (~Ariakenom@h-82-196-111-82.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | pavonia quits (~user@unaffiliated/siracusa) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | mmohammadi9812 quits (~mmohammad@80.210.53.226) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | Tops2 quits (~Tobias@dyndsl-091-249-083-161.ewe-ip-backbone.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | Rembane quits (~Rembane@li346-36.members.linode.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | plakband quits (~plakband@softbank126126238105.bbtec.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | Cthalupa quits (~cthulhu@47.186.47.75) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | amiri quits (~amiri@cpe-76-91-154-9.socal.res.rr.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | jathan quits (~jathan@69.61.93.38) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | Collateral quits (~Collatera@4e69b241.skybroadband.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | Techcable quits (znc@irc.techcable.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | RoguePointer quits (~jigen@unaffiliated/roguepointer) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | mr_yogurt quits (~mr_yogurt@5.61.211.35.bc.googleusercontent.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | freeside quits (~ubuntu@ec2-52-58-69-57.eu-central-1.compute.amazonaws.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | mceier quits (~mceier@89-68-132-187.dynamic.chello.pl) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | MarcelineVQ quits (~anja@198.254.202.72) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | concept2 quits (~concept2@unaffiliated/tubo) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | jluttine quits (~jluttine@87-95-204-180.bb.dnainternet.fi) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | Tspoon quits (tlarjoma@hilla.kapsi.fi) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | stvc quits (~stvc@192.241.166.39) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | clynamen quits (~clynamen@109.116.4.71) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | seliopou quits (seliopou@entropy.tmok.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | madog quits (~madog@163.ip-51-254-203.eu) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | jle` quits (~mstksg@unaffiliated/mstksg) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | cgfbee quits (~bot@oc1.itim-cj.ro) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | ptrcmd quits (~ptrcmd@unaffiliated/petercommand) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:11 | × | dustinm quits (~dustinm@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | mac10688 quits (~mac10688@c-76-115-116-76.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | mawk quits (mawk@serveur.io) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | ent quits (entgod@kapsi.fi) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | lassulus quits (~lassulus@NixOS/user/lassulus) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | auri_ quits (~auri_@fsf/memeber/auri-) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | ArsenArsen quits (~Arsen@kshare/developer/ArsenArsen) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | aurieeeh quits (~aurieh@static.91.102.243.136.clients.your-server.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | haritz quits (~hrtz@unaffiliated/haritz) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | Unode quits (~Unode@unaffiliated/unode) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | interruptinuse quits (~interrupt@girl.mrtheplague.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | mp___313 quits (~mp@hell.cx) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | sshine quits (~simon@hubris.eta.solutions) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | dpl quits (~dpl@ec2-18-133-105-122.eu-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | Arguggi quits (~Arguggi__@arguggi-do.arguggi.co.uk) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | avp quits (~avp@unaffiliated/avp) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | LambdaDuck quits (~anka@ksit.fixme.fi) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | zymurgy quits (~zymurgy@li607-220.members.linode.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | catern quits (~catern@catern.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | kosmikus quits (~kosmikus@nullzig.kosmikus.org) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | Chousuke quits (oranenj@coffee.modeemi.fi) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | Ankhers quits (~Ankhers@unaffiliated/ankhers) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | statusfailed quits (~statusfai@statusfailed.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | rodgzilla quits (~rodgzilla@46.212.195.35.bc.googleusercontent.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | neobit quits (~neobit@159.65.243.9) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | divVerent quits (~divVerent@xonotic/core-team/divVerent) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | turq quits (~electro@unaffiliated/turq) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | gothos quits (~gothos@antsy.jhz.name) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | ammar2 quits (admin@i.diddled.with.the.opers.so.they.klined.me) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | jemurray quits (~jemurray@shell.jasonmurray.org) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | newsham quits (~ubuntu@ec2-18-218-216-88.us-east-2.compute.amazonaws.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | carbolymer quits (~carbolyme@dropacid.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | nf quits (~n@2001:19f0:6801:413:5400:2ff:feff:23e0) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | xff0x quits (~fox@2001:1a81:5388:cb00:8fe4:ec20:878e:f666) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | Alleria_ quits (~AllahuAkb@2604:2000:1484:26:e8c3:181c:d933:4dbd) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | mudri quits (sid317655@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vxrejnyxzsryfgtw) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | higherorder quits (sid185221@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rmcizhodywhiwgzv) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | agander_m quits (sid407952@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zrjfgckotmtugqdf) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | J_Arcane quits (sid119274@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-efprusjudjcoflyt) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | feepo quits (sid28508@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lshjzkdfazhhdzdf) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | jbetz quits (sid283648@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lgtmgjydvhzpefgi) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | trevorriles quits (sid469656@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vcwwrvniknzblcpg) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | caasih quits (sid13241@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-terlgyaghsopjzfx) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:12 | × | affinespaces quits (sid327561@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zagwlzzlhrvzkgni) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | kaychaks quits (sid236345@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hrbziqwuzupufaru) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | parisienne quits (sid383587@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ebmbgbvaxawadpqa) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | cbarrett quits (sid192934@adium/cbarrett) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | jlpeters quits (sid25606@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vzagypdzbnyflvyr) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | systemfault quits (sid267009@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-whnxtdotobbumjjn) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | cemerick quits (sid54985@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sezszkubzwzwoedv) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | rodlogic__ quits (sid214676@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-egfcshsulxcglqnw) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | dsturnbull quits (sid347899@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xmzhvaiswgjcomqa) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | betawaffle quits (sid2730@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bazizvdksepkkljr) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | AndreasK quits (sid320732@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jisuwtkhbrktjxky) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | jared-w quits (uid405292@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pnfyamprydnozdqy) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | topos quits (sid467876@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mqpmkdyaexkjdklr) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | entel quits (uid256215@botters/entel) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | rann quits (sid175221@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vvuogpmcvjdddtaw) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | heyj quits (sid171370@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sjxjehfsqkhmjbvz) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | PatrickRobotham_ quits (sid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fmgigponghvlpyhp) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | bjs quits (sid190364@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wbdkgrfmfwsfnyyt) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | conjunctive quits (sid433686@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fmugvkbhizxugkfc) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | dmj` quits (sid72307@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mdlqgyhdnysmoonb) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | joshmeredith quits (sid387798@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uqsodavpxzxpcuwv) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | totbwf quits (sid402332@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-txjandoufixsoprd) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | jackdk quits (sid373013@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-arnfpemfesqxinsb) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | albethere quits (sid457088@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pfxmkbjobzsrdheg) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | metadave quits (sid28102@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wybfodxjmjkizymy) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | ibloom quits (sid350277@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hlioyajxeywwuxmx) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | liquorice quits (sid267884@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tddcmkucbvdtyubo) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | jess quits (jess@freenode/staff/jess) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | yorick quits (~yorick@oftn/oswg-member/yorick) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | i7c quits (8Tki2L7DF5@unaffiliated/i7c) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | Blkt quits (~Blkt@2a01:4f8:200:2425::adda) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | miklcct quits (quasselcor@2001:19f0:7001:5ad:5400:2ff:feb6:50d7) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | vnz quits (~vnz@unaffiliated/vnz) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | DigitalKiwi quits (~kiwi@unaffiliated/digitalkiwi) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | zyeri quits (zyeri@tilde.team/users/zyeri) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | dequbed quits (~dequbed@2001:bc8:3f24:100::1) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | entropygain quits (levitate@unaffiliated/entropygain) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | infinisil quits (~infinisil@NixOS/user/infinisil) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | nshepperd quits (nshepperd@2600:3c03::f03c:92ff:fe28:92c9) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | denucat quits (teqwve@2001:bc8:28d6::2) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | NinjaTrappeur quits (~ninja@unaffiliated/ninjatrappeur) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | dumptruckman quits (dumptruckm@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe6e:2cfd) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | ego quits (~ego@parallaxcorporation.xyz) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | bspar quits (~bspar@2604:a880:0:1010::776:e001) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | idupree quits (~quassel@2604:a880:400:d0::9bb:2001) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | Ferdirand quits (~max@2001:4c78:2012:5000::2) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | tabaqui quits (~tabaqui@2604:a880:800:c1::21b:3001) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | lpsmith quits (~lpsmith@unaffiliated/lpsmith) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | jophish quits (~jophish@2400:8901::f03c:91ff:fe39:7a9) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | ggVGc quits (~ggVGc@a.lowtech.earth) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | TimWolla quits (~timwolla@2a01:4f8:150:6153:beef::6667) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | ruffy_ quits (~jonas@2a03:b0c0:3:d0::162e:a001) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | robotmay quits (~beepboop@2001:8b0:7af0:2580:9618:82ff:fe37:d2b0) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | Forkk quits (forkk@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe84:de4d) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:13 | × | drdo quits (~drdo@overlord0.drdo.eu) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:14 | × | Bigcheese quits (~quassel@unaffiliated/bigcheese) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:14 | × | riatre quits (~quassel@2001:310:6000:f::5198:1) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:14 | × | bonz060 quits (~quassel@2001:bc8:47a4:a23::1) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:14 | × | PHO_ quits (~pho@akari.cielonegro.org) (*.net *.split) |
| 21:42:14 | × | solarus quits (~solarus@2a03:b0c0:2:d0::48:7001) (*.net *.split) |
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| 22:47:35 | <bqv> | type Optic p q i j k l s t a b = p i j a b -> q k l s t |
| 22:47:38 | <bqv> | Oh my. |
| 22:50:04 | <sm[m]> | hey all. When I see "modules" discussed, as in https://www.stephendiehl.com/posts/exotic01.html, I always have a hard time understanding their essence. I know how they differ concretely from say a function, but what's the essential difference ? |
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| 22:50:53 | <dminuoso> | sm[m]: It's a function returning a module. |
| 22:51:44 | <sm[m]> | "The big idea of modules is to break code up into reusable components called modules.". That definition also works for functions, classes, files, packages |
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| 22:52:21 | <dminuoso> | sm[m]: Well the novelty begins when you think of a module being parametrized by a signature, or even another module. |
| 22:52:43 | <sm[m]> | dmininuoso: functions also can do that |
| 22:52:50 | <dminuoso> | No they can not |
| 22:53:06 | <dminuoso> | By module I mean the actual module itself. |
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| 22:53:53 | <dminuoso> | Sorry, I conflated a few things when I mentioned signatures above |
| 22:54:14 | <dminuoso> | Am I right in assuming you want to clarify what ML functors are about? |
| 22:54:23 | <sm[m]> | not at all :) |
| 22:54:42 | <Axman6> | bqv: you could abstract out that -> too |
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| 22:55:22 | <dminuoso> | Axman6: can you? |
| 22:55:31 | <dminuoso> | or, does that make any sense? |
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| 22:55:52 | <bqv> | Optic p q i j k l s t a b = y (p i j a b) (q k l s t) |
| 22:55:57 | <sm[m]> | I'd like to understand whether there is something to the abstract idea of "module" that is different from say functions, classes, files, or anything else that is a way of breaking software into smaller pieces |
| 22:55:59 | <Axman6> | type OOptic f p q i j k l s t a b = f (p i j a b) (q k l s t) |
| 22:56:13 | <Axman6> | dminuoso: probably not :) |
| 22:56:37 | <bqv> | I'm glad I've never done anything wacky enough to require such an alphabet soup type |
| 22:56:38 | <dminuoso> | sm[m]: modules contain things not expressible within the language itself |
| 22:56:40 | <dminuoso> | sm[m]: say a type |
| 22:56:59 | <bqv> | (10 type parameters!) |
| 22:57:11 | <dminuoso> | unless you meddle with singletons or in a dependently typed language, you can't trivially parametrize some code over a type |
| 22:57:30 | <sm[m]> | dminuoso: I see that's a distinction in haskell, where a function can't define its own types, but not in other languages |
| 22:57:52 | sm[m] | imagines classes defined in a function |
| 22:58:38 | <bqv> | (Wait, that's illegal) |
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| 22:59:10 | <dminuoso> | sm[m]: well the point is to turn this namespace that identifiers and types occupy into first-class values, but in a third universe. |
| 22:59:32 | <dminuoso> | that's not just limited to haskell |
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| 22:59:49 | <bqv> | sm[m]: I always found it deeply upsetting that its possible to defun inside another function in lisps |
| 22:59:54 | <dminuoso> | parametrizing a module over some implementation is, often, not sensibly |
| 22:59:59 | <bqv> | That reminds me of that |
| 23:00:50 | <bqv> | Also python, I guess, but that's what you get with yolotyping |
| 23:00:51 | <dminuoso> | But if we consider a module as a wholesale bundle containing everything there is about an implementation - namely functions *and* types, we can use that |
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| 23:02:56 | <sm[m]> | so a module is a bag of types, values, and operations on them ? |
| 23:03:00 | <dminuoso> | say we have both modules M and N defining a type t to be either String or Text, along with functions `f and h` producing and consuming that type t. If we parametrize some third module over a module that exposes t, f and h, we have a sort of modularity you couldn't have achieved before |
| 23:03:29 | <dminuoso> | sm[m]: Id consider operations as just values. |
| 23:03:40 | <dminuoso> | there's also other noise in haskell like typeclasses, instance, tyfams, etc |
| 23:03:47 | <dminuoso> | But yes. |
| 23:03:55 | <dminuoso> | Fundamentally it's a bag of types and values |
| 23:04:03 | <sm[m]> | yes, I'm trying to think abstractly, not about haskell specifically |
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| 23:04:57 | <dminuoso> | sm[m]: Perhaps it could be useful to think of a module as a bag of *all* the things you can get from it through an import. |
| 23:05:14 | <dminuoso> | That is described a bit less suggestive |
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| 23:05:22 | sm[m] | thinks more about the difference between modules and functions. A language could make those the same perhaps |
| 23:05:28 | <dminuoso> | (So it's a bag/list of "exported entities") |
| 23:05:47 | sm[m] | thinks about modules and objects (eg in smalltalk) |
| 23:05:53 | <dminuoso> | If the entities is *just* values, like say in Python or JavaScript, it becomes just a boring dictionary |
| 23:06:00 | <bqv> | Are we going down the reflection route |
| 23:06:03 | <dminuoso> | And then the notion of module is really lacking and not interesting |
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| 23:06:31 | sm[m] | thinks about modules vs libraries |
| 23:06:33 | <dminuoso> | nix follows that route very heavily, where you just import more nix expressions |
| 23:06:41 | <bqv> | Not sure whether to make another lisp joke or switch to ruby |
| 23:06:48 | <dminuoso> | So you might be interested into looking how module nix code is often structured |
| 23:06:55 | <dminuoso> | as a counter example |
| 23:07:06 | <monochrom> | Yes, objects can be multiple-instance modules. Especially when your module has an internal mutable state. |
| 23:07:50 | <dminuoso> | sm[m]: Oh and regarding libraries, this all depends on how you define things. But generally Id say a library is a bunch of modules. So it's a collection of exported things. :p |
| 23:08:01 | <monochrom> | DNS functions on unixes used to be a module. Now they have to make them an object for re-entrancy and concurrency. |
| 23:08:15 | <dminuoso> | But, it could be conceivable to turn libraries into first class values too |
| 23:08:27 | <dminuoso> | And then have libraries parametrized by modules, libraries parametrized by other libraries.. |
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| 23:09:30 | <dminuoso> | (strictly speaking, libraries *are* often parametrized by build flags or similar things) |
| 23:10:40 | <sm[m]> | we seem to have a number of different things for making software modular, and they're not all called module. And the meaning of "module" seems to drift a bit |
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| 23:12:11 | <sm[m]> | in ocaml, "module" is a well-defined and important concept. In ghc haskell, it's well-defined but simpler and in practice a synonym for "file". In other languages I think it has some other meanings |
| 23:13:00 | <dminuoso> | modules in Haskell are more than files though |
| 23:13:38 | <dminuoso> | "A module defines a collection of values, datatypes, type synonyms, classes, etc. (see Chapter 4), in an environment created by a set of imports (resources brought into scope from other modules). It exports some of these resources, making them available to other modules. We use the term entity to refer to a value, type, or class defined in, imported into, or perhaps exported from a module. " |
| 23:13:43 | <sm[m]> | I believe you but is that visible in practice ? |
| 23:14:06 | <dminuoso> | Of course it is. Do you not export/import things across modules? |
| 23:14:32 | <bqv> | Ghc limits modules to 1 per file |
| 23:14:37 | <bqv> | Its not in the spec |
| 23:14:50 | <sm[m]> | yes, and conceptually it's as if exporting/importing files. Same thing in practice |
| 23:14:51 | <sm[m]> | ie in ghc haskell, module and files are one to one |
| 23:14:52 | <dminuoso> | Indeed, in fact the Haskell2010 report doesn't even have a notion of "files" anywhere |
| 23:14:57 | <dminuoso> | That's an implementation detail |
| 23:15:12 | <sm[m]> | I thought so, that's why I'm saying ghc haskell |
| 23:15:17 | <sm[m]> | I remember seeing multiple, perhaps nested modules defined in a single file somewhere |
| 23:15:50 | <sm[m]> | perhaps that was ocaml |
| 23:15:51 | <dminuoso> | There are some GHC proposals in that area |
| 23:16:06 | → | gtk joins (~user@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 23:16:06 | <bqv> | Interesting how ghci just ignores an IO (IO a) |
| 23:16:11 | <dminuoso> | And we had a talk during Munihac a while ago with some of the GHC developers about it |
| 23:17:24 | <sm[m]> | I think my working definition is: a module is an importable/exportable chunk of software |
| 23:17:30 | <gtk> | All primitive types are unlifted – can’t contain bottom. what does it mean bottom? why is it important or meaningful to contain a bottom? |
| 23:17:31 | <dminuoso> | sm[m]: https://github.com/goldfirere/ghc-proposals/blob/local-modules/proposals/0000-local-modules.rst |
| 23:17:54 | <dminuoso> | gtk: bottom is a name for "can contain error or infinite computation" |
| 23:18:13 | <sm[m]> | ie, a chunk of software whose visibility can be controlled |
| 23:18:31 | <dminuoso> | gtk: phrased differently, if its unlifted then it *definitely* is defined and has a value |
| 23:18:41 | <sm[m]> | thanks dminuoso |
| 23:18:53 | <dminuoso> | (in the implementation it means we dont need to represent it in a way that allows for bottom) |
| 23:19:42 | <dminuoso> | gtk: Roughly, you could pretend unboxed and unlifted to mean the same thing. We have both because there's things that happen to be boxed but unlifted |
| 23:19:46 | <dminuoso> | ByteArray# comes to mind |
| 23:20:07 | <dminuoso> | (So ByteArray# uses a boxed representation, but it cannot ever contain bottom) |
| 23:20:57 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 23:21:02 | <gtk> | So ByteArray# can not contain error? |
| 23:21:02 | <gtk> | |
| 23:21:22 | <bqv> | • No instance for (Show (IO b0)) arising from a use of ‘print’ |
| 23:21:26 | <bqv> | Uh, what |
| 23:22:27 | <Rembane> | bla >>= print |
| 23:22:30 | <Rembane> | Should work better |
| 23:22:45 | <dminuoso> | gtk: right |
| 23:22:49 | <gtk> | dminuoso: bottom means can contain error; so if ByteArray# don't contain bottom, it means the opposite of can contain error? |
| 23:22:53 | <monochrom> | bqv, if you have "foo :: IO (IO Int)", perhaps you have better luck telling ghci to "x <- foo", so as to sidestep the thorny question "how to print x :: IO Int" |
| 23:22:58 | <dminuoso> | gtk: Id rather say "bottom means not defined" |
| 23:23:10 | <dminuoso> | the reason I chose this phrasing is, becaue it could also be an infinite computation |
| 23:23:38 | <bqv> | Rembane: mm, seems it was hiding an error |
| 23:23:49 | <gtk> | is this infinite computation? [1..] dminuoso |
| 23:23:59 | <dminuoso> | `length [1..]` is |
| 23:24:18 | <bqv> | monochrom: I just didn't realise... I did <&> instead of >>= but couldn't tell cause it was just silent |
| 23:24:21 | <dminuoso> | It will not ever return a value, from a semantics position that however is indistinguishable from `error "foo"` |
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| 23:24:32 | <dminuoso> | In both cases you don't get a value back |
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| 23:26:06 | <dminuoso> | gtk: So in short: If its unboxed, its also necessarily unlifted |
| 23:26:09 | <gtk> | dminuoso: i still dont see the point of distinguishing lifted or primitive |
| 23:26:14 | <dminuoso> | (because it requires boxing in order to have bottom) |
| 23:26:46 | <dminuoso> | gtk: So boxing just means you have an additional level of indirection in memory |
| 23:26:59 | <dminuoso> | we need that boxing in order to represent say thunks |
| 23:27:15 | <dminuoso> | without that box, at best you could just have a value right there. |
| 23:27:27 | <gtk> | dminuoso: i sort of get boxed vs. unboxed; it seems boxed are in the land of haskell. but lifted is more baffling to understand |
| 23:27:41 | <dminuoso> | gtk: the term "lifted" is not interetsing |
| 23:27:46 | <dminuoso> | it's "unlifted" that is interesting |
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| 23:28:15 | <dminuoso> | Like I said, the only reason to talk about lifted/unlifted is because of things like ByteArray# |
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| 23:28:39 | <gtk> | when would you use Int# instead of just Int? |
| 23:28:44 | <dminuoso> | In GHC, ByteArray# exists on the heap, so that requires an indirection (thus boxing!) |
| 23:29:10 | <dminuoso> | But that's just an implementation issue, in principle we dont need to represent a thunk that could, possibly evalutae to error or infinite computation |
| 23:29:37 | <monochrom> | You have to consider how to implement laziness, and how to still have non-lazy, actual integers, in order to see you need both lifted and unlifted. |
| 23:30:08 | <monochrom> | If you have time, any of those lengthy STG papers/tutorials has it. |
| 23:30:09 | <gtk> | so unboxed are not lazy? |
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| 23:30:15 | <dminuoso> | indeed. |
| 23:30:23 | <dminuoso> | they're just there, directly in memory |
| 23:30:37 | <gtk> | I'm begging to see through the cloud |
| 23:30:38 | <dminuoso> | if you had a pointer to an unboxed value, you could just read from that pointer |
| 23:30:45 | <gtk> | beginning |
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| 23:30:51 | <monochrom> | If you have less time, https://github.com/takenobu-hs/haskell-ghc-illustrated is of reasonable length. |
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| 23:31:58 | <dminuoso> | If it wasnt for things like ByteArray#, we wouldnt even have lifted/unlifted, we'd just have boxed/unboxed |
| 23:32:14 | <dminuoso> | (and implicitly know that boxed meant lifted, and unboxed meant unlifted) |
| 23:33:14 | <monochrom> | Yeah the 2nd axis is just because some non-lazy primitive things are too big so they must still sit on the heap. |
| 23:34:07 | <dminuoso> | So if you want the really short answer, replace "lifted" with "boxed", and "unlifted" with "unboxed", and then move on. |
| 23:34:08 | <gtk> | Is there any good tutorials on how GHC works? |
| 23:34:13 | <dminuoso> | That's an approximation that's perfectly fine |
| 23:34:19 | <monochrom> | "box" means exactly what Rust means by Box<T>. |
| 23:34:22 | <dminuoso> | gtk: monochrom linked a pretty good book above |
| 23:34:25 | <monochrom> | (How convenient!) |
| 23:34:35 | <gtk> | I've tried to read the wiki. But it's a bit daunting. |
| 23:34:47 | <gtk> | dminuoso: ok i'll chck it |
| 23:34:53 | <dminuoso> | well. "book" |
| 23:34:58 | <dminuoso> | its rather a pdf with some slides |
| 23:35:04 | <monochrom> | This is supposed to be daunting. Especially for people who have never written a compiler. |
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| 23:35:18 | <dminuoso> | an industry grade compiler |
| 23:35:31 | <dminuoso> | With decades of research in its code base |
| 23:35:35 | <monochrom> | Nah, doesn't have to be that far. |
| 23:35:52 | <dminuoso> | oh |
| 23:35:57 | <dminuoso> | I read that statement wrong |
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| 23:36:04 | <dminuoso> | Or you understood my remark wrong |
| 23:36:08 | <dminuoso> | Either way |
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| 23:36:41 | <gtk> | Do you guys all take a complier theory class first right before understanding this stuff |
| 23:36:47 | <monochrom> | Having written a compiler, even a toy one, even for an imperative eager language, primes your mind to anticipate patience, craziness, and cool tricks when you level up to a harder compiler or language. |
| 23:36:50 | <dminuoso> | No, I dropped out of school |
| 23:37:38 | <dminuoso> | monochrom: heh, it wasnt until I wrote my very own kernel that I understood how to be mindful of writing cache aware code. |
| 23:38:11 | <dminuoso> | It's quite amazing how writing cache and pipeline aware code can easily bump up performance by a factor of 10. |
| 23:38:53 | <Rembane> | dminuoso: Why did you write your own kernel? |
| 23:39:15 | <dminuoso> | Rembane: The short answer, I wanted to understand what `return 0;` returned to in main in C. |
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| 23:39:36 | <Rembane> | dminuoso: That sounds like quite a rabbit hole. Nice! :D |
| 23:40:48 | <monochrom> | A "computer organization" class is the minimum requirement for this stuff. |
| 23:41:12 | <monochrom> | If you don't know jack about stack, heap, registers, addresses, you have no chance. |
| 23:41:21 | <gtk> | I'm at the beginning chapters of the dragon book on compilers |
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| 23:41:35 | <dminuoso> | In retrospect, the dragon book is not that good of a book |
| 23:41:52 | <dminuoso> | It doesn't cover the really interesting parts of a compiler, in my opinion |
| 23:41:53 | <gtk> | It's dated? |
| 23:42:05 | <hekkaidekapus> | sm[m]: GHC/Haskell has an extension to the Haskell-2010’s module system. It’s of course Backpack whose concern is about modular development , in the incremental and separate flavours. Haskell-2010 is grosso modo about the incremental flavour—what you called ‘module~file’. |
| 23:42:10 | <dminuoso> | But, if you're completley new to the subject, it's worth a read I guess. |
| 23:42:17 | <dminuoso> | gtk: being dated is not the problem at all |
| 23:42:23 | <monochrom> | And my "know stack" does not mean you've heard of it and can parrot talking about "non-tail call uses stack". I mean you have screwed around with the stack pointer register. |
| 23:42:32 | <monochrom> | at the asm level |
| 23:43:52 | <bqv> | :t GHC.Generics.to |
| 23:43:53 | <lambdabot> | GHC.Generics.Generic a => GHC.Generics.Rep a x -> a |
| 23:43:58 | <bqv> | This shadows lens :| |
| 23:44:21 | <bqv> | (it's reexported by protolude!) |
| 23:44:28 | <monochrom> | Oh, Appel's "modern compiler implementation in ML" is much better. |
| 23:45:02 | <dminuoso> | gtk: Also consider Types and Programming Languages if you are interested in compilers more. Sadly the dragon book doesn't really talk about types |
| 23:45:04 | <gtk> | monochrom: let me check that out too |
| 23:45:35 | <dminuoso> | And Appel is indeed a good read |
| 23:45:47 | <gtk> | I hope I dont need to understand too deeply about lambda calculus |
| 23:46:00 | <gtk> | I mean that would defintely kill me if i have to learn that too |
| 23:46:19 | <dminuoso> | Lambda calculus is very simple *shrugs* |
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| 23:48:18 | <gtk> | dminuoso: great moment of solitude for you |
| 23:49:04 | <monochrom> | lambda calculus is simple or complex depending on how many theorems you're required to prove about it. |
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| 23:50:03 | <monochrom> | it's rather like playing the piano or many (though not all) musical instruments. |
| 23:50:24 | <dminuoso> | Or like category theory. Can explain it to 8 year old kids |
| 23:50:35 | <monochrom> | If I just ask you to evaluate (\x. x x)(\y. y y) or just play one C major scale, that's simple. |
| 23:50:37 | <gtk> | monochrom: that Appel book can be easily translated to Haskell right? |
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| 23:51:04 | <monochrom> | But proving confluence or playing a Liszt piece... You quickly learn that humanity can take any simple thing and turn it into a monster. |
| 23:52:28 | <gtk> | Profunctors, contravariant...too damn difficult. I can't imaging how people managed to write stuff like the Lens library. I mean from beginner to that level, it's hard to find the path |
| 23:52:42 | <dminuoso> | gtk: what's your overall goal? |
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| 23:53:02 | <monochrom> | It did take ekmett some 10 years, no? |
| 23:53:07 | <dminuoso> | gtk: Also, https://patrickmn.com/software/the-haskell-pyramid/ |
| 23:53:18 | <dminuoso> | Understanding the basics of lens is actually wonderfully simple. |
| 23:53:37 | <dminuoso> | When I was a beginner, ertes-w had a series of simple excercises, leading me to come up with lenses myself easily |
| 23:53:42 | <monochrom> | When I was a kid I was like "I can't imagine how I would make it to university. I keep hearing it's really hard." |
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| 23:54:03 | <monochrom> | When I got into university I was like "I can't imagine how I would make it to PhD, I keep hearing it's really hard". |
| 23:54:07 | <monochrom> | Then I got a PhD. |
| 23:54:13 | <dminuoso> | Now I just look at optics-core and realize "oh well, profunctor optics really isn't *too* different from van laarhoven lenses..." |
| 23:54:24 | <dminuoso> | monochrom: So what's hard for you now? |
| 23:54:40 | <monochrom> | Getting tenure? I think I'm too old for that now. :) |
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| 23:55:03 | <gtk> | monochrom: do you teach haskell? |
| 23:55:09 | <gtk> | at your university? |
| 23:55:11 | <monochrom> | You just have to build up one step at a time. |
| 23:55:14 | <dminuoso> | monochrom: Huh? How old are you? |
| 23:55:17 | <monochrom> | 50 |
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| 23:55:31 | <dminuoso> | Somehow I always imagined you to be 30. |
| 23:55:39 | <dminuoso> | You *read* like you're 30! |
| 23:55:40 | <monochrom> | Me too. |
| 23:55:47 | <Uniaika> | oh damn |
| 23:56:08 | <dminuoso> | gtk: Anyhow, take a look at my last link |
| 23:56:12 | <dminuoso> | Let it sink in, and dont rush into things. |
| 23:56:23 | <gtk> | got it |
| 23:56:30 | <dminuoso> | Focus on getting productive, not trying to absorb all the things you think are necessary |
| 23:56:34 | <monochrom> | I decided that I should just not worry about age (apart from watching out for health, of course). |
| 23:57:02 | <dminuoso> | Mmm, that formally puts you into risk category on covid, doesnt it? |
| 23:57:18 | <dminuoso> | Somewhat relatedly, are you still teaching currently? In presence? |
| 23:57:39 | <monochrom> | Don't worry, I stay home, online teaching. |
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| 23:58:16 | <monochrom> | I have always kept a child-like curious mind. That helps a lot. |
| 23:58:30 | <monochrom> | (towards imposting a young person) |
| 23:58:42 | <dminuoso> | imposting? |
| 23:58:46 | <dminuoso> | Is that a word? |
| 23:58:52 | <monochrom> | I don't know! |
| 23:58:55 | <Uniaika> | impersonating maybe? |
| 23:59:04 | <Rembane> | Impostorating! |
| 23:59:05 | <monochrom> | imposter syndrome -> imposting |
| 23:59:06 | Rembane | nods |
| 23:59:20 | <dminuoso> | imposternizing |
| 23:59:36 | <Rembane> | Postmoderinising imp e |
| 23:59:57 | <gtk> | Simon jones also imposting a child. he doesn have to though,haha |
All times are in UTC on 2020-11-11.