Logs on 2020-11-14 (freenode/#haskell)
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| 00:03:25 | <sm[m]> | does that look sane ? utcTimeToClockTime https://paste.tomsmeding.com/3lmo5ohU |
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| 00:07:12 | <sm[m]> | approved by scientific ghci testing |
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| 00:13:10 | <sm[m]> | https://github.com/haskell/old-time/issues/11 |
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| 00:18:01 | hackage | polysemy-methodology-composite 0.1.3.0 - Functions for using polysemy-methodology with composite. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/polysemy-methodology-composite-0.1.3.0 (locallycompact) |
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| 00:20:00 | <MarcelineVQ> | surely there's a more constructive tagline for that than to repeat the package name |
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| 00:24:15 | <sm[m]> | I want to check if a file exists, and I don't want to ever get an IO error. I suppose that's not guaranteed by System.Directory.doesFileExist, right |
| 00:24:34 | <sm[m]> | eg if filesystem disappeared or something |
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| 00:32:08 | <monochrom> | Expecting programmers to know how to describe a thing without using code or "meaningful" names? :) |
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| 00:34:12 | <int-e> | sm[m]: what if the FS disappears between the test and whatever you did the test for? |
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| 00:34:41 | <int-e> | . o O ( doesFileCertainlyExist _fn = return False ) |
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| 00:37:05 | <sm[m]> | int-e: that's what I'm saying.. if I want to guard against such things I think I need to catch IOException, not just rely on it returning False |
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| 00:37:44 | <c_wraith> | int-e: that's just a naming problem. a name like probablyExistedAtSomeTime lets it be more useful. |
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| 00:37:53 | <sm[m]> | oh.. well yes now you make things more difficult for me :) |
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| 00:39:12 | <int-e> | sm[m]: I liked my function, because it's not going to throw an IO error. :P |
| 00:40:39 | <sm[m]> | there's a fine line here and I think you have gone too far :) |
| 00:40:40 | <int-e> | computers just have too many ways to fail |
| 00:41:05 | <sm[m]> | main = exitFailure |
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| 00:41:49 | <int-e> | main = main -- partially correct; TODO: imrpove running time |
| 00:42:30 | hackage | charter 0.1.1.0 - https://hackage.haskell.org/package/charter-0.1.1.0 (ChrisPenner) |
| 00:42:40 | <int-e> | (though that joke doesn't quite work with blackhole detection) |
| 00:43:42 | <MarcelineVQ> | then there's the case where something else entirely threw the IO error during your IO action |
| 00:44:12 | <bqv> | sm[m]: technically, you should be catching IOException anyway, right? |
| 00:44:32 | <bqv> | they can strike at any time! |
| 00:44:37 | <bqv> | when you least expect it... |
| 00:44:41 | <bqv> | except in pure code. |
| 00:45:17 | <sm[m]> | bqv I suppose you're right, and in fact I only use this in the context of Yesod which does that |
| 00:46:05 | <sm[m]> | so catching exceptions in here is probably trying too hard. I am also just afraid of anything exception related at this point, I feel it's going to bite me. |
| 00:47:11 | <bqv> | heh |
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| 00:51:31 | hackage | charter 0.1.1.1 - https://hackage.haskell.org/package/charter-0.1.1.1 (ChrisPenner) |
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| 01:52:31 | hackage | isbn 1.1.0.2 - ISBN Validation and Manipulation https://hackage.haskell.org/package/isbn-1.1.0.2 (charukiewicz) |
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| 03:18:09 | <mtothem> | How can i properly import a variable from a module? https://termbin.com/u31f It works like intended if i have it same scope (no module). But i get these errors when i import this module and try to use it. https://termbin.com/6y8p9 |
| 03:18:47 | <glguy> | mtothem, you need to export more stuff |
| 03:18:59 | <glguy> | module Colorscheme ( gruvboxVoid, ColorScheme(..) ) where |
| 03:19:39 | <mtothem> | Oh, do i need to include all the fields as well? |
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| 03:21:12 | <glguy> | mtothem, If you put the (..) it will export the value constructor and field selectors |
| 03:21:23 | <glguy> | without them it only exports the type constructor |
| 03:22:20 | <mtothem> | That makes sense, thanks a lot glguy |
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| 03:38:30 | <joebobjoe> | does anybody have a problem with TOML |
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| 03:40:42 | <joebobjoe> | what is a better alternative |
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| 03:48:23 | <pavonia> | joebobjoe: Better in what way? |
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| 03:48:49 | <joebobjoe> | I don't know, the language is not obvious to me |
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| 03:50:00 | <glguy> | For configuring my IRC client I made this: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/config-value |
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| 03:50:20 | <joebobjoe> | from the v1.0.0-rc.3 spec: "Dotted keys define everything to the left of each dot as a table." |
| 03:50:26 | <glguy> | It has a sister library that handles defining schemas, generates documentation, produces error messages for missing fields, etc |
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| 03:51:24 | <joebobjoe> | but you can make constructs like: [[a]] then [a.b] on the next line |
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| 03:51:40 | <joebobjoe> | thanks glguy I'll look |
| 03:52:22 | <glguy> | *TOML> parseTOML "[a.b.c]\nd = 10\ne=20\n" |
| 03:52:23 | <glguy> | Right [("a",Table [("b",Table [("c",Table [("d",Integer 10),("e",Integer 20)])])])] |
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| 03:54:58 | <joebobjoe> | *TOML> parseTOML "[[a]]\n[a.b]\n" |
| 03:55:05 | <joebobjoe> | I thought it was a bot |
| 03:55:38 | <joebobjoe> | maybe a.b is not a "key"? |
| 03:55:47 | <glguy> | *TOML> parseTOML "[[a]]\n[b.c]\n" |
| 03:55:48 | <glguy> | Right [("a",List [Table []]),("b",Table [("c",Table [])])] |
| 03:55:57 | <glguy> | I'm just using a GHCi session to run those |
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| 03:56:31 | <joebobjoe> | oops |
| 03:56:47 | <joebobjoe> | you changed a.b to b.c |
| 03:56:58 | <glguy> | yeah, what you wrote was invalid |
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| 03:57:12 | <glguy> | *TOML Text> parseTOML (Text.unlines ["[[a]]", "x=1", "[[a]]", "y=2"]) |
| 03:57:12 | <glguy> | Right [("a",List [Table [("x",Integer 1)],Table [("y",Integer 2)]])] |
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| 03:57:44 | <glguy> | You can't define a to be both a list and a table |
| 03:58:39 | <joebobjoe> | what is the error exactl? |
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| 03:59:11 | <glguy> | You tried to use 'a' as a list and as a table; you have to pick one or the other |
| 03:59:38 | <joebobjoe> | try it |
| 03:59:42 | <joebobjoe> | it works |
| 04:00:01 | <joebobjoe> | and I was wrong |
| 04:00:10 | <joebobjoe> | the a in the a.b is actually referring to a table |
| 04:00:14 | <joebobjoe> | the spec is right |
| 04:00:28 | <joebobjoe> | its just the last table in the array of tables whose last member was [[a]] |
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| 04:04:05 | <glguy> | Ah, I didn't know about that particular behavior |
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| 04:05:41 | <joebobjoe> | non-obvious |
| 04:05:49 | <joebobjoe> | obvious to Tom I guess |
| 04:07:14 | <jollygood2> | is there any library in haskell for analyzing live video image [from a webcam]? I need to detect some relatively simple objects |
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| 04:12:25 | <joebobjoe> | glguy: how do I get into the same *TOML Text> environment as you? |
| 04:13:02 | <glguy> | It's a library I made, but I'll have to fix it up for that case we were just talking about |
| 04:13:16 | <glguy> | cabal repl --build-dep toml-parser |
| 04:15:45 | <jollygood2> | I did some googling, and I could just find linux-only webcam packages |
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| 05:02:01 | <Guest_30> | when I set up ghc, I met a problem: Make sure to clean up "/var/folders/zh/j3p4n0757pn_41f22p0hjzcm0000gn/T/ghcup-ivgyrr" afterwards. How could I do? |
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| 05:26:16 | <bqv> | I just did :t in a nix repl by accident |
| 05:26:26 | <bqv> | and was surprised when it worked... |
| 05:26:32 | <bqv> | Ish |
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| 05:43:31 | hackage | brick 0.57.1 - A declarative terminal user interface library https://hackage.haskell.org/package/brick-0.57.1 (JonathanDaugherty) |
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| 06:32:44 | <dsal> | How relevant is recursion-schemes as a library? It seems like catamorphisms are covered really well by Foldable. Is there something similar for anamorphisms? |
| 06:33:49 | <MarcelineVQ> | 12 relevant |
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| 06:35:31 | <dsal> | Heh. I have a cool data structure that's a functor, foldable, traversable, monoidal, etc... I guess trying to see if I can figure out the fixed point of it would be helpful. |
| 06:36:11 | <MarcelineVQ> | it'd be the neutral value of the monoid yeah? |
| 06:36:52 | <dsal> | I understand the goals a lot better than I understand the details at this point. |
| 06:37:29 | <MarcelineVQ> | a fixed point is 'of' some operation, iiuc, so it'd depend anyway |
| 06:37:42 | <dsal> | e.g., the base functor with an extra type is still still a bit confusing to me. |
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| 06:38:57 | <MarcelineVQ> | What's that? :> |
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| 06:39:56 | <dsal> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/recursion-schemes-5.2.1/docs/Data-Functor-Base.html |
| 06:40:10 | <dsal> | e.g., `data ListF a b` is the base functor for `[a]` |
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| 06:53:50 | <MarcelineVQ> | ah neato, abstracting the recursive structure to make it not-recurvise |
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| 06:54:49 | <hololeap> | dsal: the idea is that you can take a self-referencing recursive structure, like `data Stream a = Stream a (Stream a)`, and replace that self-reference with a type variable, e.g. `data StreamF a b = StreamF a b` |
| 06:55:38 | <hololeap> | and thus `Fix (StreamF a)` = `Stream a` |
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| 06:58:48 | <hololeap> | anamorphims are covered by `unfold`-like functions |
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| 07:03:52 | <hololeap> | dsal, is your data structure recursive? |
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| 07:08:46 | <dsal> | Yeah. I've got this: `data SubTree a = SubTree { subs :: Maybe a, children :: Map Filter (SubTree a) } deriving (Show, Eq, Functor, Traversable)` |
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| 07:10:35 | <dsal> | I understand unfold is an anamorphism, I'm just wondering if there's a class for that. |
| 07:13:43 | <dsal> | I had originally hand-written Functor and Traversable before I figured out ghc would just do it for me. |
| 07:14:44 | <dsal> | Oh, `b` is just "me" there? |
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| 07:16:55 | <bliminse> | dsal: there's no Unfoldable class as far as I know, only thing close is the actual Corecursive class in the recursion-schemes package itself |
| 07:17:00 | <hololeap> | more or less... it allows for an algebra (StreamF a b -> b) to be used for the catamorphism |
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| 07:17:20 | <hololeap> | and, dually, a coalgebra (b -> StreamF a b) to be used for the anamorphism |
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| 07:17:45 | <dsal> | Makes sense. I guess I should see if I can even implement this. |
| 07:18:35 | <hololeap> | the problem that i see is that `SubTreeF a b` would need to be functorial in b, but it's wrapped in a Map |
| 07:19:19 | <hololeap> | so, you might not be able to plug it into the recursion-schemes layout |
| 07:19:38 | <dsal> | Yeah, I was noticing the lack of Map there. |
| 07:20:13 | <hololeap> | still, it is very much possible to write a custom (cata/ana)morphism function for it |
| 07:20:47 | <hololeap> | well, i can't guarantee it, since i haven't tried |
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| 07:21:42 | <dsal> | Well, this type is "done" -- I'm just trying to understand recursion-types. This might not be the best place to start, but I don't have a lot of just like, proper data types. |
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| 07:23:57 | <hololeap> | wait, Map does have a Functor instance! i was thinking of SEt |
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| 07:25:11 | <dsal> | Oh. I thought you meant something specific to recursion-schemes |
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| 07:26:52 | <sshine> | with stack.yaml, is it possible to add an extra-deps package from github using a tag rather than a commit hash? |
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| 07:30:20 | <hololeap> | dsal: so, yeah, you could experiment with something like this: https://dpaste.com/CEJU47SDL |
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| 07:32:14 | <dsal> | Oh thanks, that's helpful. I was getting a little lost at the F |
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| 07:34:37 | <dsal> | Huh. I wonder why I wasn't deriving Foldable. |
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| 07:43:26 | <hololeap> | you can even derive Recursive and Corecursive: https://dpaste.com/CWZDFZV4H |
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| 08:21:27 | <dsal> | I got this far tonight: Cofree is a functor from the category of functors to the category of comonads that is right adjoint to the forgetful functor from the category of comonads to the category of functors that forgets how to extract and duplicate, leaving you with only a Functor. |
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| 09:21:01 | hackage | jalaali 1.0.0.0 - Jalaali calendar systems https://hackage.haskell.org/package/jalaali-1.0.0.0 (behrang) |
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| 10:45:59 | <kuribas> | if I return (pure foo :: IO Foo), does foo get evaluated to WHNF? |
| 10:46:29 | <merijn> | That does nothing to foo |
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| 10:47:59 | <kuribas> | if I have "withFile fp mode $ \h -> foo", how do I ensure the result of foo is in WHNF |
| 10:48:00 | <kuribas> | ? |
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| 10:48:51 | <maerwald> | why do you care? |
| 10:48:57 | <merijn> | eh, with lots of pain and effort |
| 10:49:05 | <merijn> | Allow me to recommen a better solution |
| 10:49:12 | <merijn> | Don't use lazy IO so it doesn't matter |
| 10:49:35 | <kuribas> | well it will work if the argument is in WHNF |
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| 10:49:45 | SweetAmy19 | 19/f looking for older. This is me naked: https://imagetwist.com/c60gumtcigj7/nude5.jpg Do you like my pussy? |
| 10:50:04 | <merijn> | It's that time of year where freenode gets spammed again? |
| 10:50:23 | <maerwald> | Christmas is a lonely time |
| 10:51:10 | <hc> | kuribas: could you give a bit more context? what are you trying to do? |
| 10:51:23 | <kuribas> | hc: I am writing an xml parser on top of hexpat |
| 10:52:30 | <merijn> | Just read the entire file strictly, presumably any (sane) XML file will be a few MB max anyway |
| 10:52:43 | SweetAmy19 | 19/f looking for older. This is me naked: https://imagetwist.com/c60gumtcigj7/nude5.jpg Do you like my pussy? |
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| 10:53:09 | <merijn> | @where ops |
| 10:53:09 | <lambdabot> | byorgey Cale conal copumpkin dcoutts dibblego dolio edwardk geekosaur glguy jmcarthur johnw mniip monochrom quicksilver shachaf shapr ski |
| 10:53:13 | <kuribas> | merijn: well, it's supposed to be a "streaming parser". |
| 10:53:32 | <SweetAmy19> | 19/f looking for older. This is me naked: https://imagetwist.com/c60gumtcigj7/nude5.jpg Do you like my pussy? |
| 10:53:35 | <merijn> | kuribas: Well, there's a reason conduit & co were invented |
| 10:53:50 | <kuribas> | merijn: conduit will be supported as well :) |
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| 10:57:45 | <kuribas> | merijn: what about pure $! foo ? |
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| 10:59:30 | <kuribas> | that should first evaluate foo no WHNF, then return it from the IO action. |
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| 11:00:53 | <kuribas> | merijn: it can be still handy to parse a huge file in constant space. I know LazyIO is quick and dirty, but sometimes that's all you need :) |
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| 11:02:15 | <kuribas> | that seems to work: pure undefined >> pure 3 => 3 |
| 11:02:15 | <kuribas> | |
| 11:02:24 | <kuribas> | (pure $! undefined) >> pure 3 => *** Exception: Prelude.undefined |
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| 11:08:30 | <kuribas> | merijn: note that my function is safe, because to ensure that the xml contains no errors it has to read the whole file. Well at least the portion that needs to be parsed. |
| 11:08:52 | <kuribas> | merijn: so evaluating to WHNF will ensure a complete read. |
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| 11:25:54 | <HaskellYogi> | Hello all, I am unable to use the if statement given in the code here. https://pastebin.com/BvTCXhLr Can someone suggest an alternative |
| 11:26:34 | <kuribas> | HaskellYogi: what's the value of total when flag is False? |
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| 11:27:07 | <kuribas> | HaskellYogi: you need to invert it: let total |flag = ... | otherwise = ... |
| 11:27:48 | <kuribas> | and modVal is indented wrong |
| 11:27:51 | <HaskellYogi> | when false is false I want total = (modChr char) - (getKeyToInt key ) when true total = (modChr char) + (getKeyToInt key ) |
| 11:28:40 | <HaskellYogi> | @kuribas modval is part of let statement |
| 11:28:40 | <lambdabot> | Unknown command, try @list |
| 11:29:33 | <kuribas> | so let total | flag = (modChr char) + ... | otherwise = (modChr char) - ... |
| 11:29:51 | <kuribas> | HaskellYogi: and put modVal on the same column as total |
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| 11:30:18 | <HaskellYogi> | okay let me invert and see |
| 11:30:26 | <kuribas> | HaskellYogi: alternatively let total = if flag then ... else ... |
| 11:30:34 | <kuribas> | but I prefer guards |
| 11:32:03 | <kuribas> | HaskellYogi: or a third way: total = (if flag then (+) else (-)) (modCHar char) (getKeyToInt key) |
| 11:32:30 | <kuribas> | wether that's clearer is debatable |
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| 11:33:08 | <HaskellYogi> | Thanks a ton this works https://pastebin.com/dBj3F4m1 I learned something new today |
| 11:34:11 | <kuribas> | HaskellYogi: indentation is a bit weird, but that should work |
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| 11:34:58 | <HaskellYogi> | why do you say @kuribas, can you please show me the right way, so that I can improve |
| 11:36:47 | <kuribas> | there is not a "right way", but I prefer this: https://gist.github.com/kuribas/a5226405be7c9209bc1978236b93b660 |
| 11:36:47 | <HaskellYogi> | modval and total are in the same column |
| 11:37:00 | <kuribas> | where is a bit more idiomatic IMO |
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| 11:37:36 | <merijn> | I would say that most (like, 90%) people only use let when they absolutely have to because "where" can't work |
| 11:38:01 | <merijn> | Properly indenting let always becomes an ugly mess |
| 11:38:31 | <HaskellYogi> | Ok got it, so where would have done, makes sense. |
| 11:38:57 | <kuribas> | let is more lispy, or ocamly... |
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| 11:39:25 | <merijn> | Also, note that the parenthesis are redundant |
| 11:39:56 | <merijn> | function application *always* binds tighter than operators do, so "(modChr char) + (getKeyToInt key )" is the same as "modChr char + getKeyToInt key" |
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| 11:40:09 | <HaskellYogi> | Thanks @kuribas and @merijn will take care in future |
| 11:40:58 | <HaskellYogi> | I just use that, cause I read some where that it makes the intent clear to someone reading your code |
| 11:41:40 | <merijn> | HaskellYogi: In cases where it's ambiguous (like mixing many operators) then it can be useful, yes |
| 11:42:23 | <merijn> | But since function application always wins from operators it's best to just get used to that quickly :) |
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| 11:43:55 | <kuribas> | I never know which of (>>=), (<$>), (<*>), binds more tightly |
| 11:44:11 | <kuribas> | so there parens are more clear. |
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| 11:50:58 | <Feuermagier> | how do I find the (integer in a list) closest to a (target integer) elegantly? |
| 11:52:07 | <merijn> | Feuermagier: Do you care about it staying a list? |
| 11:52:13 | <Feuermagier> | nope |
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| 11:52:57 | <Feuermagier> | i guess i can just brute force elements out of it and compare each time, then pass the so-far-best through recursively through |
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| 11:53:11 | <merijn> | Feuermagier: Put it into a Set and use lookupLE and lookupGE? :) |
| 11:53:26 | <merijn> | Feuermagier: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/containers-0.6.4.1/docs/Data-Set.html#v:lookupLE |
| 11:53:46 | <merijn> | Then it becomes a matter of checking which of those 2 items has the smallest difference from your target |
| 11:54:01 | hackage | uusi 0.2.0.0 - Tweak dependencies in .cabal files https://hackage.haskell.org/package/uusi-0.2.0.0 (berberman) |
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| 11:57:12 | <Feuermagier> | merijn, very interesting - thx! |
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| 12:02:14 | <kuribas> | :i <$!> |
| 12:02:44 | <kuribas> | no strict fmap? |
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| 12:05:31 | <merijn> | Feuermagier: That's O(log n) complexity too! (well, there's an initial O(n log n) for creating the set, but afterwards all queries are O(log n)) |
| 12:07:11 | <Feuermagier> | merijn, nice! - however i'm still unsure if haskell can actually be a productive language :) |
| 12:08:15 | <merijn> | Whether it *can* be productive isn't really up for debate, since many people are productive in it :p The question is more whether *you* can be productive in Haskell :) |
| 12:08:18 | <kuribas> | Feuermagier: it can be! If it will be for you depends on how eager you are to learn, and if the language suits you well. |
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| 12:09:30 | <kuribas> | IMO in the beginning you are less productive than in other language, but after some threshold you become more productive. |
| 12:11:19 | <Feuermagier> | merijn, thats a good point. choosing the right tool for the job i guess. right now i'm still in the learning phase. i hope to take concepts away for my other languages (like rust, which shares the majority of its functional part with haskell) |
| 12:12:04 | <merijn> | I'm...not sure I agree with Rust sharing the majority :p |
| 12:13:56 | <int-e> | merijn: majority(functional_part(rust)) subset Haskell |
| 12:14:01 | <int-e> | is how I'd parse it |
| 12:14:05 | <Lycurgus> | Feuermagier, you wholly misappraised haskell, it's far and away the premier functional language in this time in the strict sense |
| 12:14:27 | <merijn> | Unrelatedly |
| 12:14:41 | <Lycurgus> | you really shouldn't compare it to other langs since it's something of sui generis |
| 12:15:17 | <merijn> | A few weeks ago there was a post on /r/haskell for exhaustive conversions between two types, but I forgot the name/URL. Anyone remember? |
| 12:15:42 | <merijn> | Lycurgus: I disagree, there's a ton of languages you can easily compare Haskell with |
| 12:16:18 | <merijn> | SML, Miranda, Clean, Lazy ML... |
| 12:16:39 | <Lycurgus> | merijn, i didn say you couldn't I said you shouldn't |
| 12:16:44 | <merijn> | It's not like Haskell was invented in a vacuum. Like a solid 2/3rd of the report are just straight up copied from other languages |
| 12:17:27 | <merijn> | Let's not go put Haskell on a pedestal as some unique divine deliverance on programming >.> |
| 12:18:11 | <Lycurgus> | nothing comes close in that set to the qualities of haskell in term of acceptance and development of a practical ecosystem, ocaml and the others in a second tier |
| 12:18:31 | <Lycurgus> | *terms |
| 12:18:55 | <Feuermagier> | right now I just can't identify that target "group of projects" I'd choose haskell for. But maybe I'll see that once I know it better. |
| 12:19:15 | <Lycurgus> | but to Feuermagier's point, the time to become acculturated to the lang and that ecosys maybe prohibitive in some cases |
| 12:19:28 | <solonarv> | heh, that's the situation I'm in regarding rust (and is why I have yet to properly learn it) |
| 12:19:30 | <Lycurgus> | *may be |
| 12:21:00 | <merijn> | Feuermagier: tbh, personally I'd choose Haskell for "everything that's not realtime/games/GUI" :p |
| 12:21:26 | <arahael> | merijn: That makes me sad! Why not GUI? |
| 12:21:34 | <merijn> | If I ever embarked on one of those categories I'd probably consider Rust |
| 12:21:49 | <merijn> | arahael: So far none of the GUI things I've seen seem worth the hassle |
| 12:21:50 | <arahael> | merijn: I mean, I haven't found a way to use Haskell well for GUI, but I'm still figuring this out. |
| 12:21:54 | <arahael> | merijn: Yeah, same. :( |
| 12:22:00 | <arahael> | merijn: But _why_. ;) |
| 12:22:10 | <Uniaika> | never forget: https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/5penft/parallelizing_enjarify_in_go_and_rust/dcsgk7n/ |
| 12:22:25 | <merijn> | I don't think nice Haskell gui stuff is impossible, it's just not been done yet |
| 12:22:33 | <merijn> | And I don't wanna be the one that does it :p |
| 12:22:43 | Lycurgus | 's spin https://eg.meansofproduction.biz/eg/index.php/Troika |
| 12:22:44 | <merijn> | I'd rather writing a GUI in something simpler and then call Haskell from that :p |
| 12:23:40 | <arahael> | merijn: "simpler". Honestly, I suspect that GUi should be done in "whatever" the native framework proposes, for various reasons. |
| 12:25:05 | <merijn> | Anyway, back to solving *my* problems. I've got a bijection between my type and string/text, are there existing things for nicely encoding that, or should I hack something together using my own Map/typeclass? |
| 12:25:39 | <Lycurgus> | i'd be surprised if there wasn't |
| 12:25:58 | <merijn> | So would I, but the only stuff I've found has ugly TH death machines |
| 12:26:04 | <merijn> | I was hoping something fairly lightweight |
| 12:26:16 | <Lycurgus> | ur scared of th? |
| 12:26:29 | <merijn> | No, but it slows down my built and is unnecessary |
| 12:27:00 | <Lycurgus> | i c |
| 12:27:34 | <Feuermagier> | merijn, the rust and the haskell compiler are equally aggeressive regarding types. (however since rust has no garbage collection the compiler will force you to RAII, whereas in haskell you don't have to worry about it) |
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| 12:28:48 | <merijn> | Feuermagier: For 95% of programs (possibly more...) GC isn't something to worry about it |
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| 12:29:37 | <merijn> | I like Rust (conceptually, at least), but *in practice* the overhead of GC isn't a problem for stuff I write, therefore ownership and RAII does nothing but "make life more complicated" for no good reason |
| 12:30:00 | <Feuermagier> | merijn, whats the state of haskell on multithreading? |
| 12:30:08 | <merijn> | Easy-peasy |
| 12:30:44 | <Feuermagier> | merijn, i assume races are impossible cause functional? |
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| 12:31:31 | <merijn> | Since everything is immutable by default you can't have races unless you "opt-in" to them |
| 12:31:52 | <merijn> | Feuermagier: There's a bunch of different mutable types you can use in concurrent code, some of which are racy |
| 12:32:05 | <merijn> | But then you need to decide to explicitly include those racy types in your code |
| 12:32:15 | <merijn> | (IORef is one example that's racy) |
| 12:32:40 | <merijn> | And of course GHC has the best (only real?) software transactional memory implementation |
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| 12:32:41 | <Feuermagier> | interesing. but I gess i'm not at that stage yet. maybe in a few weeks |
| 12:32:56 | <Feuermagier> | merijn, what is that? |
| 12:33:26 | × | jakalx quits (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 12:34:06 | <merijn> | Feuermagier: Basically you get shared mutable variables with the ability to make atomic updates to them (like, not atomic on the invididual variable, but "this entire set of operations on multiple variables happens atomically") |
| 12:34:13 | <Ariakenom> | i agree. haskell's concurrency is great |
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| 12:35:52 | <merijn> | Feuermagier: You should browse through the modules under Control.Concurrent in base: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.14.0.0 and the STM package: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/stm |
| 12:36:08 | <Feuermagier> | thx! |
| 12:36:09 | <merijn> | Feuermagier: The STM package should also have a link to the paper that explains it in detail |
| 12:36:48 | <merijn> | Oh, and maybe stuff like |
| 12:36:51 | <merijn> | @hackage async |
| 12:36:51 | <lambdabot> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/async |
| 12:36:53 | <Feuermagier> | the more you guys explain the workings of this language, the more i like it :) |
| 12:37:37 | <int-e> | . o O ( it's a trap! ) |
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| 12:38:21 | <Ariakenom> | "Parallel and Concurrent Programming in Haskell" is great. im not sure if you can just jump into the chapter on stm but I will link it |
| 12:38:22 | <Ariakenom> | https://web.archive.org/web/20171114084950/http://chimera.labs.oreilly.com/books/1230000000929/ch10.html |
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| 12:39:43 | <Ariakenom> | looks like its mostly readable on its own |
| 12:40:01 | <littleEngine> | hey.. are there any ideas in the community about functional machine learning |
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| 12:41:26 | <littleEngine> | i dont mean deep learning in haskell but more like genetically searching for some pure function |
| 12:41:43 | <merijn> | bah...keeping my parser and pretty printer in sync feels like a solved problem, but I can't seem to figure out how to encode it |
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| 12:43:07 | <Ariakenom> | there's some on inferring a value (ex function) from its type. in contrast to inferring a type from a value like we do currently |
| 12:44:39 | <littleEngine> | hmm.. seems impossible without some extra information on the function |
| 12:44:55 | <Ariakenom> | forall a. a -> a |
| 12:45:25 | <littleEngine> | id |
| 12:45:33 | <merijn> | littleEngine: That sorta stuff is generally done on the AST level |
| 12:47:01 | <merijn> | hmm...there's no real way to talk about constructors in a first class way, is there? |
| 12:47:03 | <Ariakenom> | didnt we have a bot that does this? |
| 12:47:17 | <merijn> | @free a -> a |
| 12:47:17 | <lambdabot> | Extra stuff at end of line |
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| 12:47:21 | <merijn> | hmm |
| 12:47:34 | <merijn> | wrong command maybe |
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| 12:48:23 | <Ariakenom> | I found a link https://www.hedonisticlearning.com/djinn/ |
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| 12:49:49 | <merijn> | @djinn a -> a |
| 12:49:49 | <lambdabot> | f a = a |
| 12:50:01 | <merijn> | @djinn (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b] |
| 12:50:01 | <lambdabot> | Error: Undefined type [] |
| 12:50:05 | <merijn> | bleh |
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| 12:51:16 | <littleEngine> | im trying to make a learner for musical instruments where an instrumet is a composition of a deformation, an instrument_logic , and a Listen function |
| 12:52:05 | <littleEngine> | Deform :: Player_state x Instrument_state --> instrument_state |
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| 12:52:35 | <littleEngine> | Instrument_logic :: Instrument_state -> Instrument_State |
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| 12:53:03 | <littleEngine> | Listen :: InstrumentState -> Audio_chunk |
| 12:54:06 | <Feuermagier> | how do i set a double to infinite? |
| 12:54:27 | <merijn> | Same way as every language with IEEE-754 |
| 12:54:32 | <merijn> | > 1/0 :: Double |
| 12:54:34 | <lambdabot> | Infinity |
| 12:54:58 | <Feuermagier> | well, yes, but usually there's a static variable like "MAX_INTEGER" |
| 12:55:02 | <merijn> | > -1/0 :: Double |
| 12:55:04 | <lambdabot> | -Infinity |
| 12:55:31 | <ski> | > maxBound :: Int |
| 12:55:33 | <lambdabot> | 9223372036854775807 |
| 12:55:39 | <merijn> | There isn't one, currently. I usually just do "infty :: Double; infty = 1/0" in my code |
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| 12:55:44 | <merijn> | ski: That doesn't work for Double |
| 12:55:47 | <ski> | yes |
| 12:55:50 | <merijn> | > maxBound :: Double |
| 12:55:52 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 12:55:52 | <lambdabot> | • No instance for (Bounded Double) arising from a use of ‘maxBound’ |
| 12:55:52 | <lambdabot> | • In the expression: maxBound :: Double |
| 12:55:53 | <carter> | merijn: did you message me on ci ? |
| 12:55:59 | <merijn> | carter: Yeah |
| 12:56:07 | <carter> | Which channel? |
| 12:56:21 | <merijn> | carter: Or rather, I replied on twitter |
| 12:56:41 | <carter> | Derp |
| 12:56:46 | <merijn> | but it was basically "no, this doesn't exist yet" :p |
| 12:56:48 | <Ariakenom> | note that the conversions like realToFrac are broken on inf |
| 12:57:08 | <merijn> | Ariakenom: Well, what could they possibly sensibly be? |
| 12:57:32 | <Ariakenom> | fair. more broken than necessary. they should error |
| 12:57:41 | <carter> | There’s some changes to fractional I need to flesh out |
| 12:57:58 | <merijn> | ugh...why does dispatching on constructors gotta be impossible >.> |
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| 12:58:24 | <merijn> | I'm gonna go make my own language! With first class constructors/patterns and booze. In fact, forget the language! |
| 12:59:07 | <int-e> | merijn: how do you even type that |
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| 12:59:31 | <merijn> | int-e: You "just" need a type level way of indicating constructor of a type X |
| 12:59:53 | <carter> | merijn: what’s the thing g you wanna do ? |
| 13:00:30 | <carter> | merijn: btw it seems like Travis ci is slow rolling oss repos and gh actions is way more reponsivr ? |
| 13:00:31 | <int-e> | merijn: and how do you use the constructor in the end? aren't you in the variadic function business now? |
| 13:00:40 | <merijn> | carter: link a parser and pretty printer together sensibly. But my type has constructors with differing arguments. You'd wanna do something like "Constructor X -> Parser X" |
| 13:00:41 | <carter> | Dependent types ? |
| 13:00:55 | <merijn> | But that doesn't work if your constructors have differing types |
| 13:01:09 | <merijn> | int-e: I don't wanna use it directly |
| 13:01:14 | <merijn> | I just wanna use it to dispatch |
| 13:01:27 | <merijn> | carter: Travis has been slow for ages |
| 13:02:02 | <merijn> | int-e: Basically I wanna select a pretty printing/parsing strategy "per constructor", but that doesn't work if you can't talk about constructors, only compound values |
| 13:02:09 | <merijn> | (but I gotta run for a sec) |
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| 13:02:28 | <carter> | Interesting point ! |
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| 13:11:26 | <int-e> | carter: Travis got acquired by Idera in January 2019 and let a good number of developers go in February 2019... they're also getting rid of the free OSS plan in favour of their trial plan and possibly exceptions on a case by case basis... https://www.theregister.com/2020/11/02/travis_ci_pricng/ |
| 13:11:41 | <Feuermagier> | If I have datatype [(String, Int)] and do [(s, i)] on it, is "s" a list of strings then? |
| 13:11:54 | <int-e> | Slow-rolling fits well into that picture. |
| 13:12:16 | <ski> | no, `s' is a `String', if `[(s,i)]' has type `[(String,Int)]' |
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| 13:12:44 | <Feuermagier> | how do i get the list of strings out of that then? |
| 13:13:09 | <solonarv> | well, there isn't exactly a list of strings "in there" |
| 13:13:18 | <solonarv> | you would instead be constructing a new list |
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| 13:13:51 | <ski> | Feuermagier : list of strings out of what ? |
| 13:14:12 | <Feuermagier> | just the strings in that tuple |
| 13:14:16 | <solonarv> | assuming xs :: [(String, Int)] , here are some ways to do that: map fst xs , or: [ s | (s, _) <- xs ] |
| 13:14:20 | <Feuermagier> | *list of tuples* |
| 13:14:43 | <ski> | if `[(s,i)]' has type `[(String,Int)]', then `[s]' is a list of `String's. `[]' is also a list of `String's, as is `[s,s]' |
| 13:15:10 | <siraben> | Anyone playing around with Linear Haskel + Nix? |
| 13:15:13 | <siraben> | Haskell* |
| 13:15:22 | <siraben> | linear-base doesn't seem to be in nixpkgs yet |
| 13:15:30 | <ski> | if you have some list of type `[(String,Int)]', and you want to get the list of `String's from the first component of the pairs, then what solonarv said |
| 13:18:16 | <carter> | int-e: yeah I guess I need to migrate all my crap to gh actions |
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| 13:20:01 | hackage | hakyll-convert 0.3.0.1 - Convert from other blog engines to Hakyll. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hakyll-convert-0.3.0.1 (AlexanderBatischev) |
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| 13:23:18 | <merijn> | carter: Sounds like you should write a GitHub Actions backend for haskell-ci, so I don't have to ;) |
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| 13:33:29 | <carter> | The yaml wasn’t that hard |
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| 13:35:46 | <hoppfull> | Hello, I'm studying mathematics in university (first year) and I'm not impressed by MATLAB. It's undoubtedly an excellent ecosystem but an ugly imperative language. Implementing algorithms in Haskell is usually a 1:1 correspondence to the mathematical equations which is impressive. I wonder if there are any good libraries that can replace MATLAB |
| 13:35:47 | <hoppfull> | for an aspiring mathematician. It should have functions for working with linear optimization, differentiation and integrals and probably more stuff that I do not yet know about |
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| 13:38:16 | <Axman6> | Feuermagier: Since it probably clear from the explanation you got, if you have xs :: [(String, Int)] and you pattern match on xs, say like case xs of [(s,i)] -> ... then you are matching on a string with exactly one tuple of a String and an Int. if uou want to extract all the strings from xs, you can use map :: (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b] with fst :: (a,b) -> a, or in your case fst has type (String, Int) -> String. so map fst :: [(a,b)] -> [a] or |
| 13:38:16 | <Axman6> | [(String,Int)] -> [String] |
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| 13:40:52 | <Axman6> | hoppfull: sadly there's no large cohesesive library which does that, but we do have a lot of the pieces to do it - things like hmatrixget you a lot of the linear algebra basics, massiv too I think (I've never used it, but have used Repa which I think inspired it quite a lot). it's usually not too hard to glue the pieces together. for differentiation we have the ad (automatic differentiation) package, not sure about integration but I'm sure yo |
| 13:40:52 | <Axman6> | u can find something on hackage |
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| 13:41:02 | <jpds> | hoppfull: I think you're looking at either R/numpy, those are what are typically used in industry |
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| 13:42:52 | <hoppfull> | Axman6: Alright, cool! :) Thank you! |
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| 13:47:54 | <hoppfull> | jpds: Thanks for your input. |
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| 13:52:24 | <hoppfull> | jpds: Gave me the idea to check and see if Haskell has R-interop and it seems like there is a library for it! :) |
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| 13:56:01 | hackage | update-nix-fetchgit 0.2.5 - A program to update fetchgit values in Nix expressions https://hackage.haskell.org/package/update-nix-fetchgit-0.2.5 (jophish) |
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| 14:11:59 | <kuribas> | wohoo! Just testing my xml parser library, and it seems to work the first time! |
| 14:12:23 | <kuribas> | Just had to change the library to return the parse location when failing. |
| 14:12:36 | <kuribas> | It seems that sometimes, "it works when it compiles", is true. |
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| 14:14:50 | <kuribas> | the more I do haskell, the more I think dynamic languages suck... |
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| 14:17:30 | <Feuermagier> | how do I go from [Int] to Map(int, amountThatIntOccuredInTheList)? |
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| 14:17:50 | <Zetagon> | kuribas: I'm dipping my toes in emacs-lisp, and I have to say that lisps are pretty cool :) |
| 14:18:18 | <kuribas> | Zetagon: that sounds very postive, emacs-lisp is pretty much the worst lisp... |
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| 14:19:17 | <kuribas> | Zetagon: you should have a look at scheme instead |
| 14:19:27 | <Zetagon> | Yeah, the little I have written in it have used few data structures so those pain points haven't really affected me. It's mostly very interactive stuff, but I have just discovered the nice stuff about macros |
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| 14:19:47 | <Zetagon> | but scheme doesn't have emacs with it :P |
| 14:20:15 | <Zetagon> | But yeah I am curious about Racket, and turnstile which does some cool stuff with macros and types |
| 14:20:16 | <kuribas> | very true :) |
| 14:20:34 | <kuribas> | there was an effort to rewrite emacs in GUILE scheme, but it never took off. |
| 14:20:49 | <ski> | @type M.fromList . map (head &&& length) . group . sort -- Feuermagier ? |
| 14:20:50 | <lambdabot> | Ord a => [a] -> M.Map a Int |
| 14:21:12 | ski | . o O ( Edwin ) |
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| 14:21:31 | <Feuermagier> | ski, interesting |
| 14:21:54 | <Feuermagier> | what does (head &&& length) do? |
| 14:22:07 | <ski> | > (head &&& length) "sssss" |
| 14:22:09 | <lambdabot> | ('s',5) |
| 14:22:12 | <Zetagon> | damn that is a neat solution |
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| 14:22:15 | <Feuermagier> | wow |
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| 14:22:48 | <Feuermagier> | what do the "." do? |
| 14:22:55 | <ski> | function composition |
| 14:23:16 | <ski> | > (sum . map (^ 2)) [0 .. 7] |
| 14:23:18 | <lambdabot> | 140 |
| 14:23:24 | <ski> | > sum (map (^ 2) [0 .. 7]) |
| 14:23:25 | <lambdabot> | 140 |
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| 14:23:43 | <ski> | > sum (map (^ 2) [0 .. 7]) :: Expr |
| 14:23:45 | <lambdabot> | 0 + 0 * 0 + 1 * 1 + 2 * 2 + 3 * 3 + 4 * 4 + 5 * 5 + 6 * 6 + 7 * 7 |
| 14:23:56 | <Feuermagier> | why do we group and sort? |
| 14:23:58 | <kuribas> | @type M.fromListWithKey (const (+)) . map (,1) |
| 14:23:59 | <lambdabot> | (Ord b, Num a) => [b] -> M.Map b a |
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| 14:24:05 | <ski> | > group "mississippi" |
| 14:24:07 | <lambdabot> | ["m","i","ss","i","ss","i","pp","i"] |
| 14:24:11 | <ski> | > (group . sort) "mississippi" |
| 14:24:13 | <lambdabot> | ["iiii","m","pp","ssss"] |
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| 14:25:03 | <Feuermagier> | aaaah |
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| 14:26:29 | <Zetagon> | kuribas: emacs-lisp is far from a bad language. it has the advantage of being a lisp so a lot of things can be improved with libraries. It has borrowed a lot of functionality from common lisp for example with cl-lib. But yeah it's not the best language either |
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| 14:27:17 | <kuribas> | Zetagon: I find it aweful, because: no propper lexical scope, though that's fixed in later versions, no namespaces, one global interpreter thread, etc... |
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| 14:27:55 | <Zetagon> | Name spaces are done by prefixing the package name :P |
| 14:28:05 | ski | idly notes "aweful" used to be a positive description |
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| 14:28:41 | <Zetagon> | Actually it technically has two namespaces, one for functions and one for variables |
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| 14:29:13 | <kuribas> | ski: isn't that awesome? |
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| 14:30:46 | <kuribas> | ski: or do you mean like a century ago? |
| 14:30:57 | <Zetagon> | wiktionary seems to agree with ski |
| 14:31:07 | <ski> | awful [..] 2. Exceedingly great; usually applied intensively. [..] 4. (now rare) Inspiring awe; filling with profound reverence or respect; profoundly impressive. 5. (now rare) Struck or filled with awe. [..] 7. Worshipful; reverential; law-abiding. |
| 14:31:21 | <ski> | kuribas : or more, perhaps |
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| 14:37:30 | hackage | hakyll-convert 0.3.0.2 - Convert from other blog engines to Hakyll. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hakyll-convert-0.3.0.2 (AlexanderBatischev) |
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| 15:15:30 | hackage | hexpat-streamparser 0.0.1 - https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hexpat-streamparser-0.0.1 (KristofBastiaensen) |
| 15:15:41 | <kuribas> | there you go :) |
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| 15:18:30 | hackage | byte-count-reader 0.10.1.2 - Read strings describing a number of bytes like 2Kb and 0.5 MiB https://hackage.haskell.org/package/byte-count-reader-0.10.1.2 (danielrolls) |
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| 15:21:56 | <fendor> | cabal does not like literate haskell files |
| 15:21:59 | <fendor> | or is it ghc? |
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| 15:23:17 | <kuribas> | fendor: they do |
| 15:23:24 | <kuribas> | fendor: did you name it .lhs? |
| 15:24:19 | <fendor> | kuribas, but the error messages are not of the same quality. ghc just says:`unlit' failed in phase `Literate pre-processor'. pointing to the first line. Some lines above, you can read the actual errors |
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| 15:27:19 | <fendor> | but it is rather hidden, compared to the rich error messages we usually get |
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| 15:36:05 | <merijn> | fendor: If you like literate programming: https://entangled.github.io/ :> |
| 15:37:17 | <Zetagon> | or org-mode |
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| 15:38:22 | <fendor> | oh wow, that looks really cool. However, I don't really care for it, but there seems to be a cabal bug related to literate haskell files and I trying to get a minimal reproducible example |
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| 15:53:59 | <Feuermagier> | whats the difference between $ and . ? |
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| 15:54:57 | <sm[m]> | check their type signatures Feuermagier |
| 15:55:17 | <Feuermagier> | OH, these are FUNCTIONS, lol |
| 15:55:23 | <sm[m]> | once you've used them a bit it becomes clear. & is also useful |
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| 16:26:30 | hackage | stack-clean-old 0.2.1 - Clean away old stack build artefacts https://hackage.haskell.org/package/stack-clean-old-0.2.1 (JensPetersen) |
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| 16:29:38 | <maerwald_> | > head . take 2 [1..] -- Feuermagier |
| 16:29:40 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 16:29:40 | <lambdabot> | • Couldn't match expected type ‘a -> [c]’ with actual type ‘[a0]’ |
| 16:29:40 | <lambdabot> | • Possible cause: ‘take’ is applied to too many arguments |
| 16:29:58 | <maerwald_> | > head $ take 2 [1..] |
| 16:30:00 | <lambdabot> | 1 |
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| 16:38:16 | <orion> | Hi. I am tasked with implementing a voting system in Haskell for a "Moose lodge". Is there any prior art in this area? |
| 16:39:36 | <orion> | As an academic exercise, I am leaning towards trying to define a DSL to describe any generic voting system, but that may be a bit ambitious. |
| 16:40:29 | <Zetagon> | That sounds pretty cool though, it would make it easier to compare a bunch of systems right? |
| 16:40:38 | <merijn> | Zetagon: Would it, though? |
| 16:41:17 | <Zetagon> | I dunno, it would at least implementing different systems easier right? I have no idea how to actually do it |
| 16:41:27 | <merijn> | I don't think it would |
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| 16:41:48 | <merijn> | You can't even really define a generic ballot without including "basically everything" |
| 16:42:01 | <systemfault> | face |
| 16:42:08 | <systemfault> | oops, wrong browser. |
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| 16:44:30 | hackage | polysemy-methodology-composite 0.1.4.0 - Functions for using polysemy-methodology with composite. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/polysemy-methodology-composite-0.1.4.0 (locallycompact) |
| 16:44:33 | <orion> | merijn: Hm, interesting. What do you mean by "basically everything"? Do you mean it in the spirit of the universal quantifier? |
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| 16:48:00 | hackage | ormolu 0.1.4.0 - A formatter for Haskell source code https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ormolu-0.1.4.0 (mrkkrp) |
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| 16:51:24 | <Zetagon> | I'm thinking that there are many different voting systems so it's hard/impossible to generalize over all |
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| 16:54:01 | <orion> | Okay, that's a more precise of saying that I intended. |
| 16:54:06 | <orion> | wat of* |
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| 16:54:10 | <orion> | way of** |
| 16:54:17 | <carter> | merijn: so many prjects need to migrate off Travis ci . |
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| 17:01:47 | <hekkaidekapus> | orion: There is <https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hjugement-protocol> whose maintainer hangs out in another channel. If you are interested, I can bribe him so that he joins #haskell :) |
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| 17:05:49 | <orion> | hekkaidekapus: Thanks! The inspiration for this idea came from this podcast: https://www.cryptography.fm/4 |
| 17:07:33 | <orion> | It's an interesting coincidence that the package you mentioned is based in part on research done at INRIA. The aforementioned podcast episode is also based on research done at INRIA. |
| 17:07:43 | <hekkaidekapus> | orion: I have no clue in voting systems, I’m afraid listening to that podcast would be a good use of time. Let’s see if I can drag said maintainer into here. |
| 17:08:19 | <hekkaidekapus> | Since it’s the weekend, he might be slow to react, let’s see. |
| 17:09:15 | <orion> | hekkaidekapus: The tl;dl of the podcast is that the same formal methods used to verify the Signal and TLS protocols have been used to verify the French tax code. |
| 17:09:39 | <carter> | Huh |
| 17:09:46 | <orion> | If formal methods can be used to verify the French tax code, surely they can be applied to a simple Moose-lodge style voting system. |
| 17:11:34 | <hekkaidekapus> | I guess, yes. |
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| 17:12:00 | <hekkaidekapus> | (So French are screwed; no evasion possible, huh?) |
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| 17:13:01 | hackage | witch 0.0.0.0 - Convert values from one type into another. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/witch-0.0.0.0 (fozworth) |
| 17:13:24 | <orion> | While tax evasion might be eliminated, it might also allow a citizen to provably compute the lowest amount of taxes possible. |
| 17:14:03 | <hekkaidekapus> | I’m kidding, don’t mind me on the subject. |
| 17:14:27 | <orion> | I have my own views on the nature of taxation, but it's probably out of scope for this channel. ;) |
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| 17:15:35 | <hekkaidekapus> | orion: The maintainer is julm |
| 17:15:43 | <julm> | hi there :) |
| 17:15:48 | <hekkaidekapus> | Hi, julm! |
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| 17:18:49 | <orion> | Hi julm. I have a task before me that I'd like to accomplish using Haskell. I am to implement a voting system for a "Moose-like" lodge. Members get to vote on other members, but it's not a simple majority. |
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| 17:19:33 | <merijn> | carter: Yeah, like all of mine, which is why you should fix github actions so I don't have to ;) |
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| 17:20:36 | <orion> | julm: I was inspired by this podcast episode: https://www.cryptography.fm/4 -- Researchers at INRIA used formal methods to verify the French tax code. hekkaidekapus told me about hjugement-protocol, which I also see is inspired from research done at INRIA. |
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| 17:21:47 | <orion> | So my thinking is, if the entire French tax code can be modeled/encoded in this way, certainly a simple lodge voting system can be modeled also. |
| 17:21:59 | <merijn> | :ls |
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| 17:23:09 | <orion> | My initial thinking is that a DSL may be appropriate. I have sought prior art in this area, and hekkaidekapus was very kind enough to point me to your package and connect us. :) |
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| 17:29:00 | <Feuermagier> | how do i take the symmetric difference of two lists (all entries of list b who are not also in list a)? |
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| 17:30:34 | <merijn> | Feuermagier: You turns them into sets and use those instead ;) |
| 17:30:35 | <hekkaidekapus> | > [1 .. 10] \\ [1 ..5] -- Feuermagier |
| 17:30:37 | <lambdabot> | [6,7,8,9,10] |
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| 17:31:07 | <merijn> | :t (\\) |
| 17:31:07 | <Feuermagier> | hekkaidekapus, so many interesting operators :D |
| 17:31:08 | <lambdabot> | Eq a => [a] -> [a] -> [a] |
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| 17:31:34 | <merijn> | hekkaidekapus: Docs make no mention of symmetric different, though? |
| 17:32:11 | <hekkaidekapus> | merijn: Nope. A principled solution is via Set as you said. |
| 17:32:20 | <julm> | orion: ok, I've indeed initiated a few libraries on this topic, first https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hjugement implementing the voting method "Majority Judgment" designed by two mathematicians claiming it's the best one, and https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hjugement-protocol implementing the voting cryptographic protocol Helios-C, designed by several mathematicians and already implemented by Inria |
| 17:32:20 | <julm> | in OCaml https://www.belenios.org/ |
| 17:32:21 | <merijn> | > [1 .. 10] \\ [5 .. 15] |
| 17:32:25 | <lambdabot> | [1,2,3,4] |
| 17:32:29 | <merijn> | That's wrong |
| 17:32:54 | <hpc> | it's correct for the parenthetical part of the question |
| 17:32:55 | <merijn> | @hackage containers -- Feuermagier |
| 17:32:55 | <lambdabot> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/containers -- Feuermagier |
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| 17:33:07 | <merijn> | hpc: Ah, right |
| 17:33:39 | <merijn> | Feuermagier: If you wanna do anything other than "loop in sequence" with data, you probably want data structures from either containers or vector instead of lists :) |
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| 17:34:26 | <Feuermagier> | merijn, if time complexity isnt relevant i can just use the version of hekkaidekapus, right? |
| 17:34:50 | <Feuermagier> | that one is rather beautiful :P |
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| 17:35:07 | <merijn> | Feuermagier: Depends whether you want symmetric difference (as you said) or your instructions in the parenthesis (which are left-biased difference, rather than symmetric) |
| 17:35:43 | <merijn> | Feuermagier: Set has the same exact operator, though :p https://hackage.haskell.org/package/containers-0.6.4.1/docs/Data-Set.html#v:-92--92- |
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| 17:35:52 | <julm> | orion: the description/links of the packages should help a lot to figure out how all this work, though the meta fields of those packages are not up-to-date: you'll find the latest code on https://code.sourcephile.fr/judgmentphile.git |
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| 17:36:01 | <Feuermagier> | merijn, since i didn't know that there's a difference, now i'm concerned |
| 17:36:26 | <merijn> | Feuermagier: difference is "everything in A that is not in B" |
| 17:36:33 | <Feuermagier> | yes |
| 17:36:41 | <merijn> | Feuermagier: Symmetric difference is "everything in A *and* B that is not in both" |
| 17:36:45 | <Feuermagier> | whats left / symmetric then? |
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| 17:37:19 | <julm> | julm: there you'll also find that I've initiated a CLI tool and a Purescript Web client |
| 17:37:30 | <merijn> | > let symmetricDiff xs ys = (xs \\ ys) ++ (ys \\ xs) in symmetricDiff [1..10] [5 .. 15] |
| 17:37:32 | <lambdabot> | [1,2,3,4,11,12,13,14,15] |
| 17:37:35 | <hekkaidekapus> | Feuermagier: left: first container; right: the second. |
| 17:37:41 | <julm> | s/julm/orion/ |
| 17:37:50 | <merijn> | As opposed to |
| 17:38:03 | <merijn> | > [1..10] \\ [5 .. 15] |
| 17:38:07 | <lambdabot> | [1,2,3,4] |
| 17:39:21 | <orion> | julm: Thank you for the information! |
| 17:40:16 | <julm> | orion: however I've not worked on all this in 2020, the MJ lib is quite mature, the Helios-C lib is beta, the CLI is working but would need a refresh, the Purescript only implements cryptographic functions |
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| 17:41:23 | <orion> | julm: This link on the hjudgement package README does not appear to be working: http://libgen.io/book/index.php?md5=BF67AA4298C1CE7633187546AA53E01D |
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| 17:42:06 | <orion> | This too leads to a 404: https://www.lamsade.dauphine.fr/sites/default/IMG/pdf/cahier_377.pdf |
| 17:42:31 | <Uniaika> | orion: it's libgen.is nowadays |
| 17:42:31 | <julm> | yeah, libgen is dead, try https://sourcephile.fr/recherches/Jugement_Majoritaire/2011_-_Balinski_et_Laraki_-_Majority%20Judgment_-_Measuring%2C_Ranking%2C_and_Electing.MIT_Press.pdf |
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| 17:42:36 | <dsal> | Feuermagier: it's better not to think of "a lot of operators". They're just functions. |
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| 17:42:49 | <merijn> | :t difference |
| 17:42:50 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 17:42:50 | <lambdabot> | • Variable not in scope: difference |
| 17:42:50 | <lambdabot> | • Perhaps you meant one of these: |
| 17:43:02 | <merijn> | aww...there's no named version for lists? |
| 17:44:04 | <dsal> | Occasionally you'll want to make a function you use a lot and give it a convenient name. If it doesn't have letters, it's infix by default, but you can apply any binary function infix or prefix. |
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| 17:44:26 | <merijn> | dsal: eh |
| 17:44:39 | <merijn> | dsal: You can apply non-binary functions infix and/or as operator too :p |
| 17:44:54 | <dsal> | > (\\) [1..10] [5..15] |
| 17:44:57 | <lambdabot> | [1,2,3,4] |
| 17:45:12 | <merijn> | dsal: I mean that you can use ternary functions as operator too |
| 17:45:23 | <merijn> | (or anything else, really) |
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| 17:47:04 | <dsal> | Some folks try to learn Haskell by learning the exceptions to rules before rules. It's a uphill battle. I'm just coming in from the other angle. Operators don't exist, but there are a couple ways to call your function. |
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| 17:47:37 | <merijn> | operators aren't even exceptions to the rules...they're literally defined in the rules >.> |
| 17:48:00 | <merijn> | An operator is just "any function whose name consists entirely of operator symbols" |
| 17:48:18 | <dsal> | They're just functions is my point. Not another thing. |
| 17:48:30 | hackage | witch 0.0.0.2 - Convert values from one type into another. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/witch-0.0.0.2 (fozworth) |
| 17:48:35 | <merijn> | dsal: Except when they're constructors ;) |
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| 17:49:02 | <merijn> | (although, I suppose, you could argue constructors are merely a subset of functions...) |
| 17:49:33 | <dsal> | Haha. Yeah. The more stuff that feels the same, the easier it all gets for me. |
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| 17:50:35 | <dsal> | I like that + isn't special. Even in, like c++ where you can overload operators, + still feels special. |
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| 17:50:54 | <merijn> | operator overloading in C++ is a nightmare |
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| 17:51:17 | <dsal> | I've abused Num horribly, but only in lambdabot |
| 17:51:32 | <merijn> | tbf, + doesn't even have to involve Num |
| 17:51:43 | <merijn> | > let 2 + 2 = 5 in 2 + 2 |
| 17:51:45 | <lambdabot> | 5 |
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| 17:52:10 | <dsal> | Haha. Yeah. You just proved Haskell is a terrible language. |
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| 17:52:42 | <monochrom> | It's gospel to me. |
| 17:53:04 | <merijn> | monochrom: Lambda calculus is gospel, Haskell is apocrypha :p |
| 17:53:19 | <dsal> | Any language that doesn't let you say 2+2=5 is restricting the way you're thinking. |
| 17:53:27 | <Rembane> | merijn: Why does that let-expression work? |
| 17:53:37 | <hyperisco> | that's why I prefer Ruby |
| 17:53:48 | <merijn> | Rembane: It's define a new + function with a partial pattern |
| 17:53:49 | <monochrom> | (+) being just another user-definable value name, therefore shadowable user-definable value name, means fewer things are second class in Haskell than in other languages. |
| 17:53:52 | <merijn> | > let 2 + 2 = 5 in 2 + 3 |
| 17:53:54 | <lambdabot> | *Exception: <interactive>:3:5-13: Non-exhaustive patterns in function + |
| 17:54:01 | hackage | flatbuffers 0.3.0.0 - Haskell implementation of the FlatBuffers protocol. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/flatbuffers-0.3.0.0 (dcastro) |
| 17:54:19 | <merijn> | Rembane: Note the non-exhaustive pattern error :) |
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| 17:55:04 | <Rembane> | merijn: I completely missed that error. That's really nice! :D |
| 17:55:04 | <monochrom> | There is no tenable philosophical reason to insist "alphabetical identifiers are user-definable, punctuation identifiers aren't" or "prefix is, infix isn't", apart from 1970 parsing couldn't handle it. |
| 17:55:34 | <dsal> | > let _ + _ = "five" in 2 + 2 |
| 17:55:36 | <lambdabot> | "five" |
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| 17:56:41 | <Rembane> | ^^ I once saw two of my friends hacking away at something in ghci, and when one of them went to get candy or something the other one wrote let (-) = (+) in the repl and cleared the screen, hilarity ensued. |
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| 17:57:45 | <monochrom> | I came from an older background, seeing all kinds of privileges that the language/compiler reserves for themselves and denying the user. So I enjoy these liberations a lot. |
| 17:58:40 | <dsal> | Yeah, it's crazy how many things are just for smart language creators. |
| 17:58:41 | <hpc> | Rembane: i once defined microwave numbers, where the value of a number is based on how many seconds it would be if you typed those digits in a microwave |
| 17:58:42 | <julm> | orion: for the second link: https://sourcephile.fr/recherches/Jugement_Majoritaire/2017-02_-_Balinski_et_Laraki_-_Majority_Judgment_vs_Majority_Rule.LAMSADE_377.pdf |
| 17:58:50 | <hpc> | so 160 == 200, 199 > 200, etc |
| 17:59:09 | <monochrom> | Let's start with BASIC. There, even procedure/function names are not user-definable. They give you SIN() then you have SIN(). They give you PRINT then you have PRINT. You wanna write your own version? You're stuck with GOSUB, no name, only a line number, and no parameter, no return value, no nothing. |
| 17:59:57 | <monochrom> | Then let's move on to Pascal. There, functions/procedures are mostly liberated, except writeln(), you could not have defined this polymorphic procedure yourself. |
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| 18:00:19 | <monochrom> | It's for that reason I really admire Haskell's type class. |
| 18:00:36 | <orion> | julm: Thank you. |
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| 18:01:47 | <merijn> | ugh |
| 18:01:54 | <merijn> | Past me should've written more tests |
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| 18:03:01 | <Rembane> | hpc: Nice! :D That must be analogous to rotary dial numbers. |
| 18:05:21 | <monochrom> | I take great pride in telling my students "in Haskell if the library didn't provide Bool, you could have defined it yourself, and it would be as optimized as the 'built-in' one". |
| 18:05:36 | <monochrom> | You can't say this about a lot of other languages. |
| 18:06:30 | <monochrom> | GHC takes one step further and makes even many code optimizations user-definable, i.e., rewrite rules. |
| 18:07:10 | <monochrom> | Our vector library and its stream fusion, you cannot pull it off in Scala, not even close. |
| 18:07:59 | <Rembane> | I like that, more power to the programmer. |
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| 18:09:44 | <hekkaidekapus> | As to custom rewrite rules, there is retrie which is lighter than stream fusion frameworks. |
| 18:10:47 | <monochrom> | Control flow is another privilege that is liberated in Haskell and Scheme, though by different mechanisms. (laziness in haskell, macros in scheme) |
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| 18:11:24 | <monochrom> | Yes, in programming language topics I'm a social justice warrior. |
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| 18:11:35 | <hekkaidekapus> | heh |
| 18:11:37 | <Rembane> | hekkaidekapus: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/retrie <- this one? |
| 18:11:37 | <monochrom> | Don't worry, on many other topics I take conservative stances. |
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| 18:11:52 | <hekkaidekapus> | Rembane: yep. |
| 18:12:03 | <Rembane> | hekkaidekapus: Cool, thanks |
| 18:12:43 | <monochrom> | Also I'm not an extreme social justice warrior. I recognize that there are trade offs, you seek a good balance not "democratize everything". |
| 18:12:57 | <hekkaidekapus> | Rembane: Not every weekend-haskeller can implement stream fusion, but with retrie one can get hands dirty with equational reasonning. |
| 18:13:28 | <Rembane> | hekkaidekapus: That's really good. |
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| 19:05:10 | <scasc> | I need a quick heads-up. I can't quite figure out how to use `time` library's `iso8601ParseM ( https://hackage.haskell.org/package/time-1.9.2/docs/Data-Time-Format-ISO8601.html#v:iso8601ParseM ) to read and parse a date "2020-11-14" |
| 19:05:34 | <merijn> | scasc: Which part gets you stuck? |
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| 19:08:33 | <scasc> | According to the `class ISO8601` documentation that format corresponds to the instance `ISO8601 Day`, so a concrete tpye of the function would be `(MonadFail Maybe, ISO8601 Day) => String -> Maybe Day. |
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| 19:09:28 | <scasc> | However, while `Day` is defined in another module, it does not seem to be exported, so I cannot do `(iso8601ParseM "2020-01-01" ) :: Maybe Day` |
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| 19:10:06 | <merijn> | Eh, it is exported? I'm pretty sure I use it in my code |
| 19:10:07 | <scasc> | I'm pretty sure I'm overlooking something stupid. Or I'm too tired. |
| 19:11:35 | <merijn> | Data.Time.Calendar.OrdinalDate has it |
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| 19:12:09 | <merijn> | Alternatively, you can extract the Day from a UTCTime |
| 19:12:17 | <scasc> | Prelude Data.Time.Format.ISO8601 Data.Time.Calendar.OrdinalDate D> (iso8601ParseM "2020-01-01" ) :: Maybe Data.Time.Calendar.OrdinalDate.Day |
| 19:12:43 | <scasc> | Not in scope: |
| 19:12:43 | <scasc> | type constructor or class ‘Data.Time.Calendar.OrdinalDate.Day’ |
| 19:13:02 | <merijn> | eh, hold up |
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| 19:13:07 | <scasc> | (GHCi, obviously) |
| 19:13:11 | <merijn> | Which version of time are you using? |
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| 19:14:33 | <scasc> | I thought 1.9.3 |
| 19:14:44 | <scasc> | Yeah, ghc-pkg tells me 1.9.3. |
| 19:15:02 | <merijn> | OrdinalDate.Day only exists as of 1.11 :p |
| 19:15:14 | <merijn> | There's a Day in Data.Time.Calendar in 1.9 |
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| 19:16:03 | <merijn> | (that Data.Time.Calendar.Day is also in 1.11, but appears to be *different* from OrdinalDate.Day and the 2nd is the only instance in 1.11) |
| 19:16:16 | <merijn> | The changelog of time is a bit vague about why that happened, though |
| 19:16:39 | <scasc> | Oof. Yeah, this happens when you just look at the latest documetation on hackage, but have an older GHC set with ghcup. :-/ |
| 19:17:05 | <merijn> | ah, no |
| 19:17:23 | <merijn> | It appears (fortunately) that it's the same Day in 1.11 |
| 19:17:39 | <merijn> | So just import Data.Time.Calendar.Day |
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| 19:18:21 | <merijn> | scasc: time is separate from GHC and can be updated, so the version of time you use depends on your cabal file/dependencies, not GHC :p |
| 19:18:57 | <merijn> | > Data.Time.Format.ISO8601.iso8601ParseM "2020-01-01" :: Maybe Data.Time.Calendar.Day |
| 19:19:00 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 19:19:00 | <lambdabot> | Not in scope: ‘Data.Time.Format.ISO8601.iso8601ParseM’ |
| 19:19:00 | <lambdabot> | No module named ‘Data.Time.Format.ISO8601’ is imported.error: |
| 19:19:00 | hackage | streamly-lmdb 0.2.0 - Stream data to or from LMDB databases using the streamly library. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/streamly-lmdb-0.2.0 (shlok) |
| 19:19:04 | <merijn> | bleh |
| 19:19:18 | <merijn> | That works on my machine with time 1.9, anyway |
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| 19:25:30 | hackage | crdt-event-fold 1.2.1.1 - Garbage collected event folding CRDT. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/crdt-event-fold-1.2.1.1 (rickowens) |
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| 19:31:32 | <sim590> | I'm playing with fundamental notions in the haskell wikibook. I've just looked at foldMap (which I never really used before). I'm now understanding that it's sufficient to provide a definition of foldMap in order to make a type an instance of Foldable. I see how foldMap can be written in terms of foldr. However, the inverse is not feasible it seems. Am I right? We cannot write foldr in terms of |
| 19:31:34 | <sim590> | foldMap since it would require foldr to have the requirement of Monoid in its signature. Therefore, how is foldMap sufficient to make an instance of Foldable, hence providing me a free implementation of foldr? I'm a bit puzzled. I must be missing something. |
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| 19:32:23 | <merijn> | sim590: It helps to realise that the FOldable API is (basically) just "toList" |
| 19:32:43 | <merijn> | sim590: So you can trivially implement anything by turning it into a list and then using the list version :p |
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| 19:33:23 | <merijn> | foldr f z xs = Data.List.foldr f z (foldMap (\x -> [x]) xs) |
| 19:34:21 | <merijn> | :t foldMap (\x -> [x]) |
| 19:34:22 | <lambdabot> | Foldable t => t a -> [a] |
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| 19:35:28 | <merijn> | That's dumb and inefficient, but it is "sufficient" :) |
| 19:35:29 | <sim590> | Oh............................................................. I see. |
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| 19:35:37 | <scasc> | merijn: thanks |
| 19:35:47 | <scasc> | (sorry, had to be AFK) |
| 19:36:08 | <merijn> | scasc: When GHC says stuff isn't in scope and Haddock says it is, the first step is always "double check your version" ;) |
| 19:36:49 | <scasc> | I just spun up ghci btw, without a cabal file or using cabal repl, so it took some (relatively) random library from the global package database, I guess? |
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| 19:37:51 | <merijn> | scasc: Probably the one that ships with GHC (because GHC's dependencies and maybe Cabal's should be the only ones in the global package db) |
| 19:38:12 | <merijn> | The rest should be in the global store |
| 19:40:01 | <sim590> | merijn: So when we create an instance of Foldable with foldMap, does GHC actually has to make this implementation of foldr by converting to lists? Is it what GHC does? You mentionned that it is not so much efficient, so therefore it may be preferable to implement the Foldable instance with foldr directly instead? |
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| 19:40:20 | <merijn> | sim590: GHC doesn't do anything automatically |
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| 19:40:32 | <merijn> | sim590: But you can provide default implementations when defining a class |
| 19:41:03 | <merijn> | sim590: For example: 'class Eq a where x == y = not (x /= y); x /= y = not (x == y)" |
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| 19:41:39 | <merijn> | sim590: Note that those two functions call each other. Now, when you define "class Eq MyData where MyData x == MyData y = x == y", you're done |
| 19:41:52 | <merijn> | Because /= will call ==, which you just defined and it works out |
| 19:42:26 | <merijn> | sim590: So Foldable has default implementations writting using (for example) foldMap, so when you only define foldMap those default implementations get used |
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| 19:42:56 | <merijn> | sim590: You can see this in the source: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.14.0.0/docs/src/Data.Foldable.html#Foldable |
| 19:43:02 | <scasc> | "Probably the one that ships with GHC" -- that's what I was referring to when I referenced GHC version above :-) -- Anyway, as I thought it was something stupid: looking at the wrong documentation version |
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| 19:50:20 | <tomjaguarpaw> | How do I find out the number of bits in an Int? |
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| 19:50:51 | <merijn> | :t finiteBitSize |
| 19:50:52 | <lambdabot> | FiniteBits b => b -> Int |
| 19:51:04 | <merijn> | :t finiteBitSize (2 :: Int) |
| 19:51:06 | <lambdabot> | Int |
| 19:51:16 | texasmyn_ | is now known as texasmynsted |
| 19:51:24 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Huh? |
| 19:51:41 | <tomjaguarpaw> | How come lambdabot said Int? |
| 19:51:43 | <geekosaur> | > finiteBitSize (2 :: Int) |
| 19:51:43 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Anyway, thanks merijn! |
| 19:51:46 | <lambdabot> | 64 |
| 19:51:46 | <merijn> | > finiteBitSize (2 :: Int) |
| 19:51:48 | <lambdabot> | 64 |
| 19:51:49 | <geekosaur> | because he asked :t |
| 19:51:53 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Oh :t |
| 19:51:56 | <tomjaguarpaw> | I see, thanks. |
| 19:52:03 | <merijn> | tomjaguarpaw: Because I'm tired and not paying attention :p |
| 19:52:18 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Nor me, clearly :D |
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| 19:52:51 | <geekosaur> | and I made my own (meta) dumb there so I guess that's three >.> |
| 19:53:52 | <merijn> | Anyway, whenever your question is "something, something bits" the answer is, invariably "Data.Bits" |
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| 20:00:18 | <Entertainment> | My ~/.stack directory is 10.9 GiB. What do people do to manage this? |
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| 20:00:54 | <sim590> | merijn: OK. So I realize that the more general approach is to reduce the signature (a -> b -> b) to (b -> b) by partially applying f to all elements of `t a`. Then, those functions (b -> b) are wrapped into a type Endo which is a Monoid with (<>) = (.). Then, by since we now have monoid, it can be used with foldMap and the result is consistent with what we'd expect to happen. |
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| 20:02:10 | <merijn> | sim590: |
| 20:02:21 | <merijn> | Entertainment: Nuke it once or twice a year? :p |
| 20:02:31 | <merijn> | That's what I do with cabal-install's store, anyway |
| 20:03:02 | <geekosaur> | there's some tools to manage it also, I saw one go by on hackage's feed a couple hours ago |
| 20:03:12 | <Entertainment> | merijn: Thanks, seems simple enough. I've been learning Haskell for a year now so I gues it's time. |
| 20:03:26 | <merijn> | There was a "work in progress" GC for cabal-install, but it's still a bit ad hoc |
| 20:04:33 | <merijn> | Entertainment: Basically, for every LTS/snapshot you use stack installs a corresponding GHC and any libraries you use. But since there's no real way for stack to know which projects are on your filesystem that you still work on, there's no real way to effectively "garbage collect" old GHCs/packages (same problem for cabal-install) |
| 20:05:06 | <Entertainment> | I have a CACHEDIR.TAG file in there to stop .stack from getting backed up, otherwise I think I would have noticed it before now. |
| 20:05:19 | <merijn> | There's some effort into developing tools for that, but practically speaking you can usually just nuke the package database and let them recompile any dependencies you need as needed (I'm not entirely sure which exact directory to nuke for stack, though!) |
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| 20:05:43 | <merijn> | I assume .stack is safe, but maybe some stack user should chime in and confirm first :p |
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| 20:17:49 | <sm[m]> | Entertainment, merijn : yeah the easy way is to rm -rf ~/.stack, but as with ~/.cabal you lose some config that way. Instead I run ncdu ~/.stack and just delete the big stuff (old installed GHCs and the haskell deps build for them) |
| 20:18:06 | <sm[m]> | s/build/built/ |
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| 20:19:02 | <merijn> | sm[m]: With cabal you wanna nuke ~/.cabal/store/ghc-XXX nowadays |
| 20:19:09 | <merijn> | sm[m]: Then you don't lose any config |
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| 20:19:28 | <sm[m]> | ok, similar with stack |
| 20:20:12 | <sm[m]> | rm -rf ~/.stack/{programs,snapshots} will delete all installed ghcs and haskell deps |
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| 20:46:00 | hackage | criterion 1.5.8.0 - Robust, reliable performance measurement and analysis https://hackage.haskell.org/package/criterion-1.5.8.0 (ryanglscott) |
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| 20:59:30 | hackage | aspell-pipe 0.5 - Pipe-based interface to the Aspell program https://hackage.haskell.org/package/aspell-pipe-0.5 (JonathanDaugherty) |
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| 21:00:07 | <fraktor> | I'm working on writing a Discord bot in haskell, but the library I'm using, discord-haskell, basically handles the event loop for me. Is there a good way to also be able to receive commands (either from a command-line program or a web frontend) that will update the configuration for the bot? |
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| 21:04:04 | <merijn> | Put the configuration in an STM variable shared between threads? |
| 21:04:31 | <merijn> | One thread runs the event loop, the other listens to stuff on the commandline or wherever |
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| 21:11:06 | <fraktor> | I'm not sure how I feel about introducing shared state... |
| 21:11:22 | <merijn> | Well, how else would you possibly update anything? |
| 21:11:58 | <fraktor> | What I would ideally like is to be able to accept either a Discord event or a message event, and then handle that accordingly, but I'm not sure if that's something I can do with this API. |
| 21:12:07 | <fraktor> | (part of me was hoping that the author was in this channel and could help out lol) |
| 21:12:13 | <merijn> | Alternatively, have a single Chan that has events (from the discord library and/or the commandline) and then you can have 1 thread from the discord event loop writing to the Chan and 1 thread listening to the commandline writing to the Chan |
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| 21:15:08 | <fraktor> | Oh that sounds neat |
| 21:16:20 | <fraktor> | So I would wrap it in a type like "data Message = Discord DiscordMsg | CommandLine CommandMsg" or something like that? |
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| 21:18:24 | <merijn> | For example |
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| 21:19:00 | <merijn> | And then make "Chan Message" with 1 thread reading from (and handling) messages and 2 (or more) threads writing messages to that Chan |
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| 21:26:44 | <Feuermagier> | how do i turn a list of 'a' into a list of (indexOfaInList, a)? |
| 21:27:44 | <Rembane> | Feuermagier: zip [0..] listOfA |
| 21:28:01 | <Feuermagier> | thx |
| 21:28:13 | <Rembane> | np |
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| 21:33:06 | <Feuermagier> | ok, so now I want to sort by a function applied on a, group all with the same result and return a list of only the indexes we just added from the first of our result group |
| 21:33:38 | <Rembane> | Feuermagier: How much of that code do you already have ? |
| 21:33:44 | <Feuermagier> | the sort :D |
| 21:33:51 | <Rembane> | :D |
| 21:34:31 | <Feuermagier> | thinking clear enough to write that sentence was already something :D |
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| 21:35:19 | <Feuermagier> | actually, I think I can get the group as well |
| 21:35:50 | <Feuermagier> | and with a bit of luck the return... maybe |
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| 21:36:02 | <Feuermagier> | i think writing that sentence was indeed the hardest part |
| 21:36:19 | <hpc> | Feuermagier: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging ; |
| 21:36:21 | <hpc> | ;) |
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| 21:42:15 | <Feuermagier> | when exactly can I leave the variable passed to my function unnamed (I've seen variables passed never mentioned occasionally and just left implicitly at the end it seems) |
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| 21:43:46 | <Rembane> | Pointfree style is good to look into |
| 21:44:01 | <Rembane> | https://wiki.haskell.org/Pointfree |
| 21:44:27 | <c_wraith> | You always *can*. It's just strongly recommended that you not do so. |
| 21:45:34 | <Rembane> | I'm a strong proponent of pointfree style, but I hate readable code. |
| 21:45:40 | <c_wraith> | Well. You always can if there's some sort of destructor available for any data types you might need to pull apart.. |
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| 21:59:02 | <Feuermagier> | ok, so the sortby turns out to be harder than expected. I want to sort a [(Int, [Int])] by the length of the ĺist in the tuples. |
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| 22:01:19 | <Rembane> | Feuermagier: You do not have a list in the tuple |
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| 22:01:57 | <Feuermagier> | Rembane, its a list of tuples. the tuples is of type (Int,[Int]) |
| 22:02:29 | <Feuermagier> | the 2nd position of the tuple is a Int list |
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| 22:04:32 | <Rembane> | Feuermagier: Sorry, I failed at reading. |
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| 22:04:48 | <fuzzypixelz> | anyone here uses emacs? |
| 22:04:52 | <Rembane> | Feuermagier: sortBy (comparing snd) should do what you want |
| 22:04:58 | <Feuermagier> | Rembane, np, you're helping me here :) |
| 22:05:10 | <Rembane> | Feuermagier: ^^ |
| 22:05:21 | <Feuermagier> | Rembane, if I just compare snd, does it autotake length? |
| 22:05:25 | <fuzzypixelz> | if so, can you please explain to me how to automagically infer the type of a haskell function? |
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| 22:07:00 | <Rembane> | Feuermagier: No, it seems like I'm a bit tired, lets try that again: sortBy (comparing (length . snd)) |
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| 22:07:54 | <Feuermagier> | thx again! |
| 22:08:29 | <Rembane> | np |
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| 22:12:24 | <Feuermagier> | Rembane, linter recommends "sortOn (length . snd) px" |
| 22:13:42 | <monochrom> | sortOn is defined in terms of that combination of sortBy and comparing. So it depends on which one you prefer to memorize. |
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| 22:14:42 | <Rembane> | Feuermagier: Use that instead, their semantics are equivalent. :) |
| 22:14:56 | <Feuermagier> | excellent |
| 22:15:00 | hackage | hascard 0.5.0.0 - A TUI for reviewing notes using 'flashcards' written with markdown-like syntax. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hascard-0.5.0.0 (Yvee1) |
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| 22:22:08 | <Feuermagier> | can I just groupBy in the same way? - groupBy (length . snd) x - doesn't seem to work |
| 22:22:26 | <Rembane> | Feuermagier: Nope, wrong types |
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| 22:25:30 | hackage | QuickCheck 2.14.2 - Automatic testing of Haskell programs https://hackage.haskell.org/package/QuickCheck-2.14.2 (NickSmallbone) |
| 22:25:36 | <Feuermagier> | Rembane, how do i get the boolean out of that and merge on equal? |
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| 23:51:01 | hackage | hakyll-filestore 0.1.8 - FileStore utilities for Hakyll https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hakyll-filestore-0.1.8 (aergus) |
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All times are in UTC on 2020-11-14.