Home freenode/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2020-11-30 (freenode/#haskell)

00:00:01 <erisco> and sure there is room to do the same thing differently, but univalence says that isn't making anything new
00:00:03 <hekkaidekapus_> > 'λ' : "" -- sondr3: In case you didn’t see that Axman6 is replying to you.
00:00:09 <lambdabot> "\955"
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00:00:46 <hekkaidekapus_> > pure 'λ' :: String
00:00:48 <lambdabot> "\955"
00:00:52 <monochrom> This is devolving into more and more XY problems piled upon each other.
00:00:52 awk is now known as ragemnaugh
00:01:17 <monochrom> This is what's wrong with not posting actual code.
00:01:18 <Axman6> and that String, when printed, will produce a string with the lambda in it
00:01:40 <monochrom> As a beginner, you realize that everything you say about your code has nothing to do with your code.
00:01:44 <Axman6> uh, will print a lambda, is probably a better way to say it
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00:02:41 <Axman6> % let representChar c = showe c ++ ": " [c] in putStrLn % representChar '\955'
00:02:41 <yahb> Axman6: ; <interactive>:16:23: error:; * Variable not in scope: showe :: a -> [a1]; * Perhaps you meant one of these: `show' (imported from Prelude), `shows' (imported from Prelude); <interactive>:16:57: error:; * Couldn't match expected type `String -> IO ()' with actual type `[a0]'; * Possible cause: `representChar' is applied to too many arguments; In the second argument of `(%)', namel
00:02:46 <erisco> I'd take a univalence t-shirt, is all I'm saying, if someone was looking to raise money for some Haskell community project ;)
00:02:48 <Axman6> % let representChar c = show c ++ ": " [c] in putStrLn % representChar '\955'
00:02:48 <yahb> Axman6: ; <interactive>:17:33: error:; * Couldn't match expected type `[a] -> [Char]' with actual type `[Char]'; * The function `": "' is applied to one argument,; but its type `[Char]' has none; In the second argument of `(++)', namely `": " [c]'; In the expression: show c ++ ": " [c]; * Relevant bindings include; c :: a (bound at <interactive>:17:19); representChar :
00:02:56 <Axman6> % let representChar c = show c ++ ": " ++ [c] in putStrLn % representChar '\955'
00:02:56 <yahb> Axman6: ; <interactive>:18:59: error:; * Couldn't match expected type `String -> IO ()' with actual type `[Char]'; * Possible cause: `representChar' is applied to too many arguments; In the second argument of `(%)', namely representChar '\955'; In the expression: putStrLn % representChar '\955'; In the expression: let representChar c = show c ++ ": " ++ [...] in putStrLn % representCha
00:03:28 <sondr3> I mean, my code is `show (Character a) = show a`, not sure how useful that is
00:03:30 <monochrom> I don't think multiple % on the same line means multiple lines.
00:03:34 <Axman6> % let representChar c = show c ++ ": " ++ [c] in putStrLn $ representChar '\955'
00:03:34 <yahb> Axman6: '\955': λ
00:03:39 <Axman6> I'm bad at this
00:04:15 <monochrom> And this is what's wrong with $ too :)
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00:05:47 <hekkaidekapus_> (And that’s a contrived putChar…)
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00:06:37 hekkaidekapus_ is now known as hekkaidekapus
00:06:46 <Axman6> % let representChar c = show c ++ ": " ++ [c] in representChar '\955'
00:06:46 <yahb> Axman6: "'\\955': \955"
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00:08:28 <Axman6> % let representChar c = show c ++ ": " ++ [c] in representChar '\DEL'
00:08:28 <yahb> Axman6: "'\\DEL': \DEL"
00:08:36 <Axman6> % let representChar c = show c ++ ": " ++ [c] in putStrLn $ representChar '\DEL'
00:08:36 <yahb> Axman6: '\DEL': 
00:08:42 <Axman6> :o
00:09:15 <hekkaidekapus> Better to take the 1 hour lecture, I’d say :p
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00:10:47 <hekkaidekapus> (Next instalment: how to write ‘real’ Show instances…)
00:10:59 <Axman6> deriving Show
00:11:07 <Axman6> NEXT!
00:11:13 <hekkaidekapus> lol
00:11:39 <JavaSucksMan> that maintain read and show being inverses ;-)
00:12:02 <Axman6> or, deriving Show via Hex Foo because DerivingVia is the best
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00:16:56 <sondr3> `parseTest pExpr "#\\x03BB"` -> `#\λ`, yey, thanks all for helping
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00:18:05 <nitrix> FYI for the channel, Advent of Code 2020 starts soon :)
00:19:13 <hekkaidekapus> sondr3: In short, Show ought to be used for producing actual Haskell values. If you want to format values for pretty looking-and-feeling, use a formatter or a pretty printer. For instance, <https://hackage.haskell.org/package/prettyprinter-1.7.0/docs/Prettyprinter.html>.
00:19:39 <Axman6> yeah don't misuse show please
00:20:50 <erisco> else you'll get pulled over and have to do a read test
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00:22:53 <Axman6> we don't like law breakers around 'ere
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00:24:46 <sondr3> Fair points, I guess that makes a lot of sense. Coming from Rust I miss Debug/Display, I didn't realize that Show wasn't the same as Display
00:25:30 <Axman6> Show is sort of more about serialisation than printing, but is usually used for the latter
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00:30:33 <monochrom> The conflation all began with "42" being a suitable format for all of: serialization, dev's eyes, end-user's eyes.
00:30:56 <Axman6> we should just learn to read CBOR
00:31:23 <monochrom> You can bet that from that example people have only 33% chance of making the correct bet.
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00:32:01 <dolio> I'm kind of skeptical that compositional pretty printing would actually work out well.
00:32:22 <erisco> so it didn't work out well in prettier printing?
00:33:01 <dolio> Well, what I mean is pretty printing where how it's done is cobbled together from a dozen instances written by people who don't communicate.
00:33:10 <dolio> Which is the point of Show.
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00:34:01 <dolio> 'Show valid Haskell for the value' is a spec you can adhere to and when you combine things, you get output that makes some sense.
00:34:06 <monochrom> You know, a pretty printing library is totally unnecessary unless you have an AST that you want to output in a nicely indented format.
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00:34:48 <dolio> 'Show an easy to understand representation of the value' seems much less likely to succeed.
00:34:53 <monochrom> If you are just outputting to a one-line format, even if the input is an AST, all you need is your own recursive X->String function.
00:35:21 <erisco> the only real features of prettier printing, from what I recall, is that of indentation
00:35:29 <monochrom> You don't even need your own bloody class. You only need to think up one single function name.
00:37:32 <hekkaidekapus> printf?
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00:39:19 <iqubic> How does one make a haskell project with multiple directories?
00:39:40 <Axman6> mkdir foo bar
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00:41:00 <iqubic> I'm running into this error:
00:41:01 <iqubic> https://dpaste.com/BCPQ2TU98
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00:41:21 <iqubic> I have a cabal project with a src directory, and inside that I have a Lib folder.
00:41:47 <iqubic> And in src/Lib/ I have Parser.hs.
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00:42:11 <koz_> What's the module declaration in Parser.hs?
00:42:45 <iqubic> module Parser where ....
00:43:07 <koz_> iqubic: It's the issue.
00:43:08 <Axman6> needs to be module Lib.PArser
00:43:13 <Axman6> as the error says
00:43:14 <iqubic> Ah.
00:43:15 <koz_> Your module declaration has to match the folder structure.
00:43:18 <koz_> Exactly.
00:43:37 <koz_> (minus the src, because I assume your .cabal has 'hs-source-dirs: src' in it)
00:43:38 <monochrom> Unless you really intend the module name to be Parser
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00:44:50 <monochrom> then play with https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.4/cabal-package.html#pkg-field-hs-source-dirs
00:45:07 <monochrom> For best results, read the whole chapter carefully.
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00:45:33 <justsomeguy> I found this reverse function that is implemented in terms of foldr “rev l = foldr (\x r -> r . (x:)) id l []”, but am having a hard time figuring out what the evaluation steps are. What happens after I get to “((((id . (4:)) . (3:)) . (2:)) . (1:)) []”?
00:46:05 justsomeguy thinks he misunderstands what the composition operator does.
00:46:06 <monochrom> id . (4 :) = (4 :)
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00:46:22 <koz_> :t (2:)
00:46:24 <lambdabot> Num a => [a] -> [a]
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00:46:27 <monochrom> (4 :) . (3 :) = (\r -> 4 : 3 : r)
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00:46:36 <monochrom> I think you can do the rest.
00:46:39 <iqubic> monochrom: Are you telling me that Parser is a bad name for a module?
00:47:00 <koz_> iqubic: We aren't sure if the issue is that your module is misnamed or if your folder structure is not what you're after.
00:47:01 <monochrom> No. I am saying it is up to you. You make a decision, then either way there is a solution.
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00:47:14 <koz_> I assumed the former, monochrom is presenting the solution in case of the latter.
00:47:41 <monochrom> But it's safe to bet if you wrote "module Parser" then that's what you want.
00:47:42 <iqubic> I want it to be called Lib.Parser, because it's in the Lib folder and called Parser.hs
00:47:56 <monochrom> OK then it's "module Lib.Parser"
00:48:01 <koz_> Yep.
00:48:17 <iqubic> No, I wrote 'module Parser', because I have no idea how to do multi-directory haskell projects.
00:48:57 <iqubic> When I import the module from other files, I want to write: "import Lib.Parser"
00:49:06 <monochrom> That's why life is a gamble.
00:49:12 <koz_> hs-source-dirs can contains as many directories as you like.
00:49:27 <koz_> You don't have to limit yourself to just one.
00:50:05 <iqubic> hs-sourc-dirs will only have one directory, src. This file is located at src/Lib/Parser.hs
00:50:11 <Axman6> needs to be module Lib.PArserbut that would be a very unusual layout for the project
00:50:28 <Axman6> uh, "but that would be a very unusual layout for the project"
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00:51:16 <monochrom> btw justsomeguy what you're seeing is a special case of how to express foldl as a foldr
00:51:35 <iqubic> Two things: 1) I'm renaming it to from Lib to Common, and 2) This is for Advent Of Code, so I don't care how unusual the layout is.
00:52:08 <iqubic> I'm making my own simple library of functions to use during Advent, and I want to compartmentalize things.
00:52:11 <monochrom> because reverse is a special case of foldl: reverse = foldl (\a x -> x : a) []
00:52:34 <justsomeguy> The foldl version is much easier to read ^_^.
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00:53:18 <Axman6> yes
00:53:35 <Axman6> > foldl (flip (:)) [] "abcd"
00:53:38 <lambdabot> "dcba"
00:53:43 <monochrom> justsomeguy: https://ertes.eu/tutorial/foldr.html >:)
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00:55:35 <iqubic> I still can't believe Ertes is gone.
00:55:53 <iqubic> Also, that tutorial was how I learned to master foldr.
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00:57:20 <iqubic> Alright. I finally managed to make multi-directory thing work properly.
00:57:30 <iqubic> Thanks everyone.
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00:58:59 <monochrom> I wouldn't call it multi-directory cabal project. On two counts: 1. this is just one package, not even a project of 3 packages; 2. you only have "hs-source-dirs: src", not even "hs-source-dirs: src1 src2 src3 src4/part1 src4/part2"
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01:00:20 <iqubic> Right. I see.
01:00:27 <iqubic> That makes sense.
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01:22:19 justsomeguy finished typing out the reduction process for “let rev l = foldr (\x r -> r . (x:)) id l [] in rev [1,2,3,4]”, and feels like he understands it now.
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01:22:23 <justsomeguy> https://gist.github.com/kingparra/e5aeac3f540ef2e2172be9f16cf15b8c
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01:23:07 <justsomeguy> I think I'll do that foldr tutorial now.
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01:24:05 <dsal> > foldr f a [b, c, d] :: Expr -- justsomeguy
01:24:08 <lambdabot> f b (f c (f d a))
01:24:54 <ski> @where folds
01:24:54 <lambdabot> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fold-diagrams.svg>,<https://cale.l5.ca/share/Folds.svg>
01:25:26 <ski> hm, oh. it was deleted from WP
01:25:38 ski looks at Cale
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01:26:33 <justsomeguy> This is great; Total folding immersion time!
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01:27:28 <ski> @where evolution -- "Yet another senior Haskell programmer (leaned so far right he came back left again!)"
01:27:28 <lambdabot> http://www.willamette.edu/~fruehr/haskell/evolution.html
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01:41:43 <dsal> as justsomeguy descends deep into the catamorph
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01:41:57 <_deepfire> Does TH have something that would allow:? reifyType :: Typeable a => Q Exp
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01:51:10 <hekkaidekapus> ski: <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Foldr1-diagram.svg>
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01:55:18 <_deepfire> Err, reifyType :: Typeable a => Q Type, of course.
01:57:48 <ski> oh, ty, hekkaidekapus
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01:57:57 <ski> although, it's only one of the diagrams
01:59:16 <hekkaidekapus> Yeah, the other link has all them. Maybe another upload to Commons is warranted.
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02:01:23 <hekkaidekapus> (The user name is gone, too.)
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02:11:52 <ski> @hoogle reifyType
02:11:53 <lambdabot> Language.Haskell.TH reifyType :: Name -> Q Type
02:11:53 <lambdabot> Language.Haskell.TH.Syntax reifyType :: Name -> Q Type
02:11:53 <lambdabot> TH.ReifySimple reifyType :: Name -> Q TypeInfo
02:12:10 <ski> @hoogle Typeable a => Q (TType a)
02:12:11 <lambdabot> Data.Ecstasy defStorage :: HasWorld world m => world ('WorldOf m)
02:12:11 <lambdabot> Data.Ecstasy.Internal defStorage :: HasWorld world m => world ('WorldOf m)
02:12:11 <lambdabot> Data.Ecstasy.Internal defStorage :: (HasWorld world m, Generic (world ('WorldOf m)), GDefault 'True (Rep (world ('WorldOf m)))) => world ('WorldOf m)
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02:19:21 hackage polysemy-extra 0.1.7.0 - Extra Input and Output functions for polysemy.. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/polysemy-extra-0.1.7.0 (locallycompact)
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02:26:56 <hekkaidekapus> I have a Dhall record `{ x.x1 = "foo", y.y1 = "bar", z.z1 = "qux" }` out of which I want to make a Data.Map. I don’t know the labels `x1, y1, z1` beforehand. Any ideas?
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02:33:36 <jle`> hekkaidekapus: what map do you want from that?
02:34:35 <hekkaidekapus> I guess that’s part of the question. Let’s say "x <> x1" as a key.
02:35:51 <hekkaidekapus> (Using Prelude.Map.keyText)
02:36:02 × joaj quits (~joaj@2001:818:e326:8200:5273:55b7:3a86:e6ca) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
02:36:21 hackage polysemy-path 0.1.0.0 - Polysemy versions of Path functions. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/polysemy-path-0.1.0.0 (locallycompact)
02:36:30 <hekkaidekapus> But that relies on having a map to begin with…
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02:37:14 <koz_> I think what jle` is asking is 'what should the value type of the Map be'?
02:37:21 <hekkaidekapus> Anyway, dirty hacks (through YAML for instance) are welcome.
02:37:24 <koz_> The Dhall record can have values whose types are arbitrary.
02:37:43 <hekkaidekapus> values are Text.
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02:38:08 <koz_> So your goal is a Map Text Text?
02:39:05 <koz_> This won't work? http://hackage.haskell.org/package/dhall-1.36.0/docs/Dhall-Map.html#v:toMap
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02:39:09 <monochrom> I have a feeling that your dhall parser library already has it. Since aeson already has it.
02:39:09 <hekkaidekapus> koz_: Typing the result in Haskell is easy. The tricky part is finding a way to apply `toMap` on an irregular record.
02:39:45 <koz_> hekkaidekapus: What do you mean by 'irregular'?
02:39:53 <koz_> I thought you said that the values are all Text?
02:39:58 <koz_> Or is that the desired outcome?
02:40:02 <hekkaidekapus> monochrom: aeson hacks are welcome, too.
02:40:53 <hekkaidekapus> koz_: toMap { x = "foo", y = "bar", z = "qux" }` is okay. But toMap on the OP is not.
02:41:26 <monochrom> In aeson if you request "decode to the Value type" you get an Object case that has a hashmap from Text to Text. The keys are the actual, dynamically discovered field names.
02:41:39 <koz_> monochrom: Text to Value.
02:41:53 <monochrom> Oh! oops. That.
02:42:23 <hekkaidekapus> Ok, will try that, thanks.
02:42:33 <hekkaidekapus> YAML ideas?
02:42:52 hekkaidekapus dislikes JSON with a passion…
02:43:10 <monochrom> This is really not JSON-specific.
02:43:22 <monochrom> I can just as well tell the same story for cassava.
02:43:40 <Axman6> YAML is JSON though
02:43:55 <hekkaidekapus> JSON is YAML, rather.
02:43:58 <Axman6> I should look a Dhall more
02:44:20 <monochrom> cassava is relational database
02:44:23 <monochrom> THERE
02:44:24 <Axman6> I guss
02:44:32 <Axman6> guess*
02:44:48 <jle`> hekkaidekapus: so you're saying you have a dhall reord as an `Expr`? or as a Text/String ?
02:45:13 <monochrom> OK actually just one relational table. You need several csv for an interesting database.
02:45:41 <Axman6> enter frames
02:46:04 <Axman6> (which IIRC also has a dsv backend for parsing, for super fast parsing)
02:46:05 <jle`> s/reord/record
02:46:17 <hekkaidekapus> jle`: The record is an expression.
02:47:00 <jle`> er by that do you mean a Expr type in the dhall library?
02:47:19 <jle`> or an expression as a syntactical idea within dhall
02:47:48 <hekkaidekapus> A Dhall expression. No YAML2Dhall or JSON2Dhall shenanigans yet.
02:48:06 <jle`> so you have it as text, you mean
02:48:11 <jle`> in dhall syntax
02:48:15 <hekkaidekapus> yep
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02:49:49 <jle`> hm, i guess you could manually turn it into nested Map's, and then flatten it out in the end
02:49:55 <jle`> by parsing it into a haskell Expr
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02:50:17 <Guest648> can anyone help me on kubernetes
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02:50:37 <Axman6> does that have anything to do with Haskell?
02:50:47 <koz_> Guest648: Sir, this is a Wendy's^W^W#haskell.
02:50:50 <jle`> your nested map type could be `Free (Map Text) Text`, a nested map with Text as keys and Text leaves
02:51:00 <Guest648> ohhh shit sorry wrong group
02:51:01 <jle`> (a rose tree)
02:51:09 <koz_> jle`: Ah, you mean the same trick Beam uses?
02:51:10 <hekkaidekapus> jle`: Ah, that’s neat!
02:51:19 <jle`> Free should be called Rose anyway
02:51:23 <hekkaidekapus> Free is the key.
02:51:47 <jle`> you don't need to use Free specifically per se, but it does have some neat utility functions for building up and squashing down nested layers
02:51:50 <koz_> jle`: Isn't Free more general though? Rose is a special case where f is some linear collection-ish thing.
02:52:16 <jle`> hm, that's fair :)
02:52:30 <jle`> the name Free just feels a little more mystifying than it needs to be
02:52:45 <jle`> and a lot of other things are free in different ways
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02:53:04 <koz_> Yeah, naming is something of an issue sometimes
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02:53:12 <hekkaidekapus> Thank you, jle`! I know what you mean (I could go with Generics, too). I was just looking the problem from a Dhall perspective, not a Haskell’s.
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02:53:21 koz_ remembers how like, only recently someone in here freaked out about UndecidableInstances.
02:53:36 <monochrom> Rose tree and Free are great ways of thinking of each other.
02:53:52 <jle`> yeah, if you want to get it into haskell land then i'd probably start with getting it into an Expr
02:54:07 <koz_> monochrom: Rose Free. :P
02:54:14 <jle`> actually the Dhall module has a few tools for parsing Expr's into Haskell types in a type classy way, pretty much equivalent to FromJSON/ToJSON
02:54:25 <jle`> but i'm not sure if they would be too useful here
02:54:57 <hekkaidekapus> jle`: No, here they are useless because of the expression’s irregularity.
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02:55:05 <hekkaidekapus> I have to hand-parse the thing.
02:55:25 <Guest648> what are we talking about here
02:55:28 <Guest648> im a haskell pro i can help
02:55:32 <jle`> i meant, you could parse it into a Free (Map Text) using some of the tools there maybe. but yeah, maybe doing it by hand would be the cleanest way
02:55:50 <jle`> Record's are actually already expressed in dhall as a Map Text
02:56:02 <Axman6> Guest648: What is Haskell?
02:56:11 <hekkaidekapus> jle`: Regulat ones, yes.
02:56:18 <hekkaidekapus> *Regular
02:56:39 <Guest648> haskell is a functional programming language axman6
02:56:51 <Axman6> what does that mean?
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02:56:54 <jle`> ah yeah, literals i suppose
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02:57:09 <koz_> Axman6: Are you attempting the Church-Turing test? :P
02:57:20 <texasmynsted> Hmm. Type Driven Development with Idris is on sale at manning for a couple more hours.
02:57:31 <hekkaidekapus> jle`: Because when you have a map in Dhall, it is trivial to flatten it as a list, and then Data.Map.fromListXXX will do the rest.
02:57:31 <Guest648> it means taking java and inverting it
02:57:33 <Axman6> koz_: that would be telling. You're next
02:57:48 <Axman6> yes, Java is disfunctional
02:58:17 <jle`> hekkaidekapus: by a map in Dhall, do you mean a List { key : Text, val : a } ?
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02:58:30 <hekkaidekapus> Yes.
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02:58:52 <Guest648> i learned haskell when i was 7
02:59:02 <hekkaidekapus> jle`: And that’s the type of toMap for a record.
02:59:09 <Guest648> i am a haskell prodigy
02:59:15 <jle`> oh wow i totally forgot that ToMap was a dhall primitive
02:59:23 <jle`> fancy stuff
02:59:24 <koz_> Guest648: 7? Not the womb? Disappoint.
02:59:36 <jle`> yeah, i see what you mean
02:59:38 <hekkaidekapus> jle`: yeah, built-in!
02:59:54 <Guest648> my mom named me cabal
03:00:22 <koz_> Guest648: I thought she named you Guest648?
03:00:52 <texasmynsted> Anybody here read "Type-Driven Development with Idris"?
03:01:04 <koz_> texasmynsted: I did.
03:01:11 <texasmynsted> What is the verdict?
03:01:21 <koz_> It's a great resource if you want to learn Idris.
03:01:29 <koz_> (although you'll need the v2 errata)
03:01:32 <koz_> (at least now)
03:01:48 <Guest648> yes but the haskell book is much better written by the holiest guy named Christopher Allen
03:01:54 <texasmynsted> So it not longer applies?
03:02:12 <koz_> texasmynsted: It is, if you use the v2 errata.
03:02:13 <Guest648> neffective methods and materials have made Haskell unnecessarily hard for many people to learn, but I find Haskell so pleasant to use that I want to help people learn it. I've spent the last two years actively teaching Haskell online and in person. Along the way, I started keeping notes on exercises and methods of teaching specific concepts and techniques that worked. Those notes eventually turned into my guide for learning Haskell. I'm still
03:02:14 <Guest648> learning how to teach Haskell better by working with people locally in Austin, Texas, as well as online.
03:02:22 <koz_> Edwin posted to this effect just today in fact!
03:02:42 <koz_> Guest648: Were you implemented in Haskell too?
03:03:05 <Guest648> chris allen is the pope for my religion
03:03:13 <texasmynsted> Are you quoting Chris ALlen?
03:03:30 <Guest648> you mean father allen
03:03:34 <koz_> texasmynsted: Gotta cite the implementer.
03:03:35 <texasmynsted> Are you talking about "Haskell from first principles?"
03:03:38 <Guest648> he is a pope after all
03:03:46 <koz_> It's like --version except for chatbots. :P
03:04:14 <Guest648> amazing book you guys should make sure to buy the bible
03:04:33 <koz_> Guest648: Do you have time to hear about our lord and saviour Nyarlathotep?
03:04:43 <texasmynsted> Sigh
03:05:07 <texasmynsted> I guess I do not really have time for another book to add to the stack
03:06:14 <texasmynsted> I do not really _need_ to learn Idris right now
03:06:33 <Guest648> just read our bible
03:06:42 <Guest648> haskell from first principle covers everything
03:07:18 <texasmynsted> I have the book.
03:07:20 <texasmynsted> thanks
03:07:25 <Guest648> its the best
03:07:29 <koz_> Guest648: Clearly you have a great desire to ponder the mysteries of our lord and saviour Nyarlathotep.
03:07:44 <justsomeguy> I'm going through hpfp right now and taking notes. Sometimes I really appreciate it and sometimes I hate the verbosity, or think something could be explained better a different way (type classes). It's been kind of a love/hate relationship. Maybe after I finish it I'll write a review.
03:07:59 <Guest648> he doesnt hold a pencil to my pope His holiness Christopher allen
03:08:16 <koz_> Nyarlathotep holds every pencil in his holy tentacles.
03:08:17 <texasmynsted> Really the greatest model for programmer is "keyboard cat" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J---aiyznGQ
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03:10:20 <texasmynsted> What about Julie?
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03:10:54 <koz_> texasmynsted: What about her?
03:11:29 <Guest648> you sir are trolling
03:11:37 <Guest648> i do not appreciate such gestures
03:11:44 <texasmynsted> Guest648: Seems to have much "praise" for Chris but said nothing about Julie.
03:11:55 koz_ would like to make some kind of mirror joke here, but it makes itself.
03:12:02 <hekkaidekapus> koz_: <https://paste.tomsmeding.com/FajoLeow> for when you will decide to give Dhall a close look.
03:12:33 <koz_> hekkaidekapus: I figured I never wanted to, and now I'm even more certain. :D
03:12:34 <Guest648> no julie left his holiness
03:12:41 <Guest648> and joined chris martin
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03:13:32 <koz_> Guest648: Was your father Andrei Markov by any chance?
03:13:34 <Guest648> my loyalty lies only to His holiness Martin
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03:13:54 <hekkaidekapus> koz_: Be happy in your weakly typed gardens, C (I mean JSON) and Python (err. YAML). :p
03:14:07 <koz_> hekkaidekapus: Who said I liked any of those things?
03:14:20 <koz_> Something something argumentum ad serpentum.
03:14:26 <hekkaidekapus> heh
03:14:36 <texasmynsted> Yes, Chris Martin and Julie Moronuki's site is impressive.
03:14:42 × joaj quits (~joaj@2001:818:e326:8200:9fc:6bde:c18a:1771) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
03:14:54 <Guest648> when will chris allen give a sermon in this channel
03:15:17 <texasmynsted> Guest648: Who are you?
03:15:27 <koz_> Guest648: The only one who gives sermons here is the Most Holy SPJ.
03:15:30 <Guest648> a loyal follower
03:15:33 <koz_> But alas, it has never occurred.
03:15:42 <texasmynsted> I have never seen SPJ here
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03:16:59 <koz_> (also, shouldn't it be SP-J?)
03:17:29 <hekkaidekapus> SLP-J
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03:18:33 <hekkaidekapus> Since Idris was brought up, did you notice `it : …`, koz_?
03:18:50 <koz_> hekkaidekapus: Am I missing something?
03:18:59 <Guest648> can somoene please help me in kubernetes
03:19:07 <Axman6> no
03:19:12 <koz_> Guest648: Can you get me a double chocolate ice cream?
03:19:23 <Guest648> only if u help me first
03:19:45 <koz_> Is your problem with Haskell?
03:19:46 <hekkaidekapus> koz_: In the paste, there is an expression `it` typed `{ x : { x1 : Text }, …`, à la Idris.
03:19:56 <koz_> hekkaidekapus: Ah! No, I didn't notice that.
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03:19:59 <koz_> Interesting.
03:20:05 <Guest648> thats not how you reduce hekkaidekapus
03:20:06 <Guest648> tbats wrong
03:20:12 <Guest648> you dont know your lambda calclus
03:20:16 <Guest648> read the haskell book
03:20:26 <hekkaidekapus> koz_: See, close look I was saying… :d
03:20:48 <kupi> i think the "do" here is redundant in the example, am i wrong? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.13.0.0/docs/Control-Exception-Base.html#v:handle
03:21:11 <texasmynsted> Guest648: I think you are looking for twitter
03:21:22 × conal quits (~conal@64.71.133.70) (Client Quit)
03:21:23 <koz_> texasmynsted: Or treatment.
03:21:31 <texasmynsted> why not both?
03:21:42 <Guest648> what treatment would i need?
03:21:55 <koz_> texasmynsted: I don't think they coincide well. :P
03:22:04 <koz_> Guest648: Do you want me to answer sincerely?
03:22:10 <Guest648> yes
03:22:16 <koz_> Guest648: Too bad.
03:23:14 <Guest648> what is chris allens irc
03:23:29 <dsal> He uses the same one the rest of us use.
03:23:52 <dsal> At least he used to. I've not seen him around in a while.
03:24:01 <koz_> Guest648: I'll tell you if you fax me some chocolate ice cream.
03:24:29 <texasmynsted> I think it is bitemyapp
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03:24:51 <Guest648> no
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03:24:58 <Guest648> it doesnt exist
03:25:33 <texasmynsted> Perhaps you simply do not have enough faith
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03:27:08 <Guest648> oh my god you are right!
03:27:17 <MarcelineVQ> kupi: not neccesarily redundant, they just happen to be giving an example that uses do
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03:28:34 <MarcelineVQ> Actually I think I see what you mean since there's that $ there too
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03:31:23 <kupi> "do io" is the same as "io" right?
03:31:26 <monochrom> You know, "handle (\NonTermination -> exitWith (ExitFailure 1)) $ do ..." is much more convincing and common.
03:31:35 <monochrom> Yes.
03:33:07 <koz_> . o O ("do or do not, there is no try")
03:33:41 <monochrom> I write "do try" all the time :)
03:33:44 <int-e> DONT GIVE UP
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03:43:21 hackage uusi 0.3.0.0 - Tweak dependencies in .cabal files https://hackage.haskell.org/package/uusi-0.3.0.0 (berberman)
03:44:38 <dsal> @undo do io
03:44:38 <lambdabot> io
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03:44:46 <dsal> ^ kupi
03:44:55 <Axman6> @undo do do do io
03:44:55 <lambdabot> io
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03:45:29 <kupi> @undo do x <- oi1; y <- io2; return (x+y)
03:45:29 <lambdabot> oi1 >>= \ x -> io2 >>= \ y -> return (x + y)
03:45:59 <koz_> Axman6: lol
03:46:18 <kupi> nice but I would prefer liftA2 (+) io1 io2
03:46:34 <dsal> Sure, but that means something different.
03:46:52 <koz_> 'do do do io' <- truly the time when do-notation is considered harmful
03:47:08 <dsal> @undo do harm
03:47:08 <lambdabot> harm
03:47:15 <kupi> dsal: what is the difference?
03:47:34 <dsal> :t liftA2
03:47:36 <lambdabot> Applicative f => (a -> b -> c) -> f a -> f b -> f c
03:48:00 <koz_> @undo do the wrong thing
03:48:00 <lambdabot> the wrong thing
03:48:06 <dsal> You'll have the same effect, but it's not un`do`ing.
03:48:23 <dsal> koz_: some mistakes can't be undood
03:48:40 <koz_> dsal: This.
03:48:46 <int-e> @. pl undo do x <- oi1; y <- io2; return (x+y)
03:48:46 <lambdabot> (`fmap` io2) . (+) =<< oi1
03:49:04 <int-e> . o O ( that went perfectly )
03:49:05 <kupi> is there a separate program I can use this "undo"?
03:49:10 <koz_> int-e: That is a truly shocking combo and I am impressed.
03:49:19 <kupi> til not i have done undo a lot of times by hand
03:49:24 <kupi> *til now
03:49:29 <dsal> kupi: /query lambdabot
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03:49:49 <koz_> Do undo others as they undo you.
03:50:00 <dsal> haha. That's perfect.
03:50:42 <kupi> dsal: most undos are multilines so i can't send it to lambdabot
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03:50:46 <kupi> *dos
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03:51:07 <dsal> @undo do { line1 ; x <- line2; pure awesome }
03:51:07 <lambdabot> line1 >> line2 >>= \ x -> pure awesome
03:51:07 <int-e> why do you want to undo so much?
03:51:22 <koz_> :t pure fail
03:51:24 <lambdabot> (MonadFail m, Applicative f) => f (String -> m a)
03:51:34 <kupi> because it creates bigger namespaces than it should
03:51:36 <koz_> int-e: Mistakes were made.
03:51:40 <kupi> most of the times
03:51:45 <dsal> do creates namespaces?
03:51:52 <kupi> yes
03:51:53 <int-e> people use do notation because most find it more readable than the bindful version
03:51:55 <dsal> do is just a syntax
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03:52:31 <kupi> @undo x <- m1; y <- m2 x; return m2
03:52:31 <lambdabot> <unknown>.hs:1:3:Parse error: <-
03:52:38 <kupi> @undo do x <- m1; y <- m2 x; return m2;
03:52:38 <lambdabot> m1 >>= \ x -> m2 x >>= \ y -> return m2
03:52:40 <koz_> 'Do creates namespaces' is a take I didn't think I'd hear today.
03:52:54 <dsal> You cannot undo that which has not been dood.
03:52:59 <kupi> here x can be accessed in m2
03:53:04 <kupi> * return
03:53:08 <kupi> but not used
03:53:23 <dsal> That's not a namespace, though.
03:53:29 <kupi> maybe i use the wrong word but the scope has more variables than it should
03:53:40 <kupi> also the code is longer than it shold be
03:53:47 <dsal> You just made a new scope and reused the same name. It doesn't matter whether you're using do or not there.
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03:54:11 <int-e> koz_: well the same effect can be achieved through lambdas... which is what @undo produces
03:54:13 <kupi> it's simply just m1 >>= m2
03:54:22 <dsal> @. pl undo do x <- m1; y <- m2 x; return m2
03:54:22 <lambdabot> (m2 =<< m1) >> return m2
03:54:57 <kupi> what is .pl?
03:55:08 <dsal> . is compose
03:55:16 <dsal> pl is to render pointless
03:55:36 <kupi> @. pl undo do x <- m1; y <- m2 x; return y;
03:55:36 <lambdabot> m2 =<< m1
03:55:47 <monochrom> You don't have namespacing unless you have special syntax for accessing names outside the default namsepace.
03:55:48 <kupi> that is the reason i want to undo
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03:56:05 <dsal> Oh, that's more pl than undo.
03:56:18 <int-e> yeah, namespace != scope
03:56:35 <monochrom> If you write "\x -> \x -> ???" inside the ??? you have absolutely no syntax that gives you the 1st x. Therefore this is not namespacing.
03:56:55 <koz_> Yay name shadowing.
03:57:15 <kupi> is there a way to send lambdabot multiple lines in a command?
03:57:20 <monochrom> Whereas if you write "\null -> ???" inside the "???" you can still write "Prelude.null" for the global null, now that's namespacing.
03:57:48 <int-e> koz_: no
03:57:54 <int-e> hmmm
03:57:58 <int-e> kupi:
03:58:35 dsal listens to monochrom's "Now that's what I call namespacing, volume Prelude"
03:58:38 <int-e> ("hmmm" was me wondering how I managed to mess up this name)
03:58:51 <koz_> int-e: Lotsa folks with k-names?
03:58:54 <dsal> kupi: ; is a newline
03:59:19 <int-e> > let foo x y | x <- x+1, y <- y+2 = x*y in foo 1 1 -- yay shadowing
03:59:21 hackage newtype-zoo 1.2.1.0 - Newtype Wrapper Zoo https://hackage.haskell.org/package/newtype-zoo-1.2.1.0 (SvenHeyll)
03:59:21 <lambdabot> 6
03:59:24 <dsal> kupi: but in general, describing an abstraction of your problem will be much easier than pasting a bunch of code verbatim.
04:00:02 <dsal> pl isn't all knowing, either. It just knows a bunch of dumb tricks. Not every trick, though.
04:00:19 <monochrom> It's also pretty old.
04:00:41 <monochrom> It's, like, before Applicative.
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04:01:04 <kupi> is there a separate program for those tricks? hlint does not know all of those dumb tricks
04:01:29 <int-e> @hackage pointless
04:01:29 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/pointless
04:01:48 <int-e> @hackage pointfree
04:01:48 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/pointfree
04:01:56 <int-e> that one, sorry. I misremembered the name.
04:02:17 <int-e> Or rather, the package is not named properly :-P
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04:32:11 <kupi> what have i done?
04:32:13 <kupi> (getRecursiveContents >=>) . filterM . fix . const . (`ap` getModificationTime) . (`ap` getFileSize) . (`ap` getPermissions) . (liftA3 .)
04:32:42 <monochrom> Transcendence
04:32:54 <Axman6> made difficult to read code
04:34:44 <kupi> this was the original code but i am not satisfied with it https://gist.github.com/theqp/08eb2d8780c638b892019b3b5ad23963
04:36:08 <int-e> . o O ( Where is liftA4 when you "need" it... )
04:36:30 <Axman6> I prefer your original code
04:36:48 <kupi> me too
04:36:51 hackage numhask-free 0.0.2 - Numerical free algebras https://hackage.haskell.org/package/numhask-free-0.0.2 (tonyday567)
04:37:05 <monochrom> @type fix . const
04:37:07 <lambdabot> c -> c
04:37:23 <monochrom> IIRC earlier today we established that fix . const = id
04:37:43 <kupi> what
04:38:04 <monochrom> > (fix . const) "hello"
04:38:07 <lambdabot> "hello"
04:38:12 <monochrom> > (fix . const) False
04:38:14 <kupi> it was id all along?
04:38:15 <lambdabot> False
04:38:16 <int-e> . o O ( check = liftA4 liftA3 p getPermissions getFileSize getModificationTime )
04:38:54 <MarcelineVQ> :<
04:39:09 <Axman6> beautiful
04:40:25 <int-e> @hoogle liftA4
04:40:25 <lambdabot> Control.Applicative.HT liftA4 :: Applicative f => (a -> b -> c -> d -> e) -> f a -> f b -> f c -> f d -> f e
04:40:25 <lambdabot> Util liftA4 :: Applicative p => (a -> b -> c -> d -> e) -> p a -> p b -> p c -> p d -> p e
04:40:25 <lambdabot> Rank2 liftA4 :: Apply g => (forall a . p a -> q a -> r a -> s a -> t a) -> g p -> g q -> g r -> g s -> g t
04:41:03 <int-e> Util, what a great public module name
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04:42:06 <Axman6> it's probably a decade old and and in something like missing-h
04:42:32 <Axman6> I remember the days when there was some very common packages which just added functions people thought were missing in base packages
04:44:16 <int-e> that probably only stopped once all the good names were taken, like https://hackage.haskell.org/package/extra
04:44:58 <int-e> (seriously it hasn't stopped. the novelty has worn off though)
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05:17:58 <koz_> Haskell is the strongest language; all we do is lift.
05:19:07 Clint slowclaps.
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05:21:55 koz_ bowbows.
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05:35:55 <int-e> write pure code, it's easy; no lifting required
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07:49:23 <hololeap> % :t (\(a,fb) -> (a,) <$> fb)
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07:49:23 <yahb> hololeap: Functor f => (t1, f t2) -> f (t1, t2)
07:49:31 <hololeap> is there a name for this?
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07:50:56 <merijn> strong, iirc
07:52:48 <dminuoso> hololeap: looks like first from Arrow
07:52:59 <jle`> it's sequence in base, but yeah i think formally it is strength/strong/etc.
07:53:42 <dminuoso> Or yeah, Strong is better
07:53:42 <jle`> > sequence (3, Just "hi")
07:53:44 <lambdabot> Just (3,"hi")
07:54:07 <jle`> but i don't really like using sequence for it because it's a weird positional fluke kinda
07:54:19 <jle`> and i try to avoid using Foldable/Traversable for tuples when i can
07:54:40 <jle`> > bitraverse pure id (3, Just "hi")
07:54:43 <lambdabot> error:
07:54:43 <lambdabot> • Variable not in scope:
07:54:43 <lambdabot> bitraverse
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07:57:01 <hololeap> jle`: you're right, it's just sequence. i got mixed up and thought (,) needed to be an Applicative, e.g. a Monoid in the first value
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07:58:28 <dminuoso> Well it does.
07:58:32 <dminuoso> instance Monoid a => Applicative ((,) a)
07:58:48 <dminuoso> Oh.
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08:00:00 <dminuoso> Question, when exposing some third party HTTP API with servant, would you rather just expose the servant API type, or provide a servant-client wrapper?
08:00:30 <jle`> in the past i have done both
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08:02:05 <dminuoso> I guess there's not much value in exposing an API, since you'd have to stuff it into servant at the end anyway
08:02:36 <dminuoso> Did you have some other considerations?
08:03:00 <jle`> there are things you can do with the API other than just calling it maybe
08:03:05 <jle`> like generating documentation or other stuff
08:03:31 <jle`> also maybe they could integrate it into their other servant stuff maybe
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09:10:51 hackage kesha 0.1.0.0 - Haskell implementation of nix-hash https://hackage.haskell.org/package/kesha-0.1.0.0 (jmackie)
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09:37:46 <tomsmeding> 05:41:03 int-e | Util, what a great public module name
09:37:55 <tomsmeding> it's the Util module in the 'util' package, to make it even nicer
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09:59:01 dminuoso longs for {-# LANGUAGE GuessCode #-}
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10:01:09 <idnar> dminuoso: like Hoogle+?
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10:12:23 <tomsmeding> when encountering an unknown identifier that does occur in hoogle's database, automatically depend on that package and import the containing module?
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10:25:09 <mouseghost> smh who wrote these docs :C
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10:27:10 <tomsmeding> which docs mouseghost?
10:28:02 <mouseghost> for lens package uh.. i guess i need to learn more haskell, or im looking at the wrong thing, or this is exactly what it is (and im just trying to understand why for some reason)
10:28:28 <mouseghost> namely ^. and Getting type def
10:28:48 <tomsmeding> the type signatures in lens are not quite known for being easily understandable for beginners :)
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10:29:04 <mouseghost> ;___;
10:29:12 <tomsmeding> I suspect other members of the channel have opinions on this, dminuoso?
10:29:41 <tomsmeding> (with which I want to say that it's not your fault that you're having trouble :p)
10:29:45 <mouseghost> though, is it true that when it comes to type definition, arguments passed satisfy the equation on the right hand side of eq. sign?
10:30:01 <tomsmeding> what do you mean exactly?
10:30:04 <tomsmeding> example perhaps?
10:30:08 <mouseghost> type Getting r s a = (a -> Const r a) -> s -> Const r s
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10:30:35 <mouseghost> uh i got even more confused :D
10:30:40 <tomsmeding> what do you mean with "satisfy equation on the right hand side"?
10:30:52 <tomsmeding> there's no = sign on the right-hand side, so also no equation :p
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10:31:11 <tomsmeding> but a type definition using 'type' means that the left-hand side, in this case 'Getting r s a', can be 1-to-1 replaced with its right-hand side
10:31:19 <tomsmeding> whenever you see Getting applied to three type arguments
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10:31:36 <mouseghost> ohh
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10:31:55 <mouseghost> thanks :o
10:32:19 <tomsmeding> this in contrast, of course, to 'newtype' and 'data', which create new data types
10:32:29 <tomsmeding> 'type' is just a type synonym
10:33:18 <mouseghost> i see i see
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10:56:11 <mouseghost> if theres a type def like :: a -> a, it means that just the type is the same, right :V?
10:57:44 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: optics is a great library for beginners.
10:57:53 <dminuoso> Or, mouseghost rather.
10:58:11 <mouseghost> mouseghosts hm
10:58:30 <dminuoso> optics wraps optics behind newtypes, making it much easier to read the types
10:58:38 <dminuoso> So rather than
10:58:40 <dminuoso> type Getting r s a = (a -> Const r a) -> s -> Const r s
10:58:43 <dminuoso> You have something like
10:58:59 <dminuoso> to :: (s -> a) -> Getter s a
10:59:03 <dminuoso> Where Getter is a proper newtype
10:59:15 <dminuoso> No confusion, it's optics problem how that is represented
10:59:23 <dminuoso> And for things that work over any getter you have
10:59:26 <dminuoso> view :: Is k A_Getter => Optic' k is s a -> s -> a
11:00:13 <mouseghost> o_o
11:00:15 <dminuoso> And you get nice diagnostics based on that, where GHC will error out like "A_Getter cannot be used as A_Setter", rather than constraint errors
11:00:31 <dminuoso> Compare the above to the lens equivalen
11:01:26 <mouseghost> thanks hm
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11:02:35 <dminuoso> view :: MonadReader s m => ((a -> Const r a) -> s -> Const r s) -> m a
11:02:42 <dminuoso> view :: MonadReader s m => Getting a s a -> m a
11:03:00 <dminuoso> These two are the same, and depending on how GHC runs, you will see the former in GHC diagnostics
11:03:18 <mouseghost> yeah i understand
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11:04:47 <mouseghost> dminuoso, do parentheses always imply a function then? and hence do all type synonyms have these implicit ()?
11:05:10 <dminuoso> No, parens are just to control how things associate
11:05:17 <dminuoso> Similarly to value level
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11:05:48 <mouseghost> hm
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11:07:20 <mouseghost> thanks
11:08:19 <mouseghost> ill take a look at that optics package; im wondering, can packages be compatible then?
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11:08:46 <mouseghost> nvm this doesnt make sesne
11:08:47 <mouseghost> sense
11:10:11 <mouseghost> thanks uwu
11:10:37 <nitrix> Finally someone speaking my language.
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11:14:04 <mouseghost> nitrix, :3
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11:21:11 <maerwald> mouseghost: what do you mean with compatible
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11:22:21 hackage arch-hs 0.5.0.0 - Distribute hackage packages to archlinux https://hackage.haskell.org/package/arch-hs-0.5.0.0 (berberman)
11:22:43 <mouseghost> maerwald, that, given a package b depending on a package c, i could use package d if types matched or something
11:22:58 <maerwald> you may want to check https://hackage.haskell.org/package/optics-vl
11:23:12 <maerwald> which allows you to convert between lens and optics
11:24:26 <dminuoso> mouseghost: optics comes with primitives to build stuff from van laarhoven on most things (where its possible)
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11:25:11 <mouseghost> o-o thanks
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11:51:10 <mouseghost> btw, why is it called van laarhoven
11:53:06 <dminuoso> Twan Van Laarhoven is the person who came up with the original idea and encoding.
11:53:15 <dminuoso> https://www.twanvl.nl/blog/haskell/cps-functional-references
11:53:19 <dminuoso> type RefF a b = forall f. Functor f => (b -> f b) -> (a -> f a)
11:53:30 <dminuoso> Which looks an awful lot like `Lens'` :)
11:53:37 <dminuoso> type Lens' s a = Lens s s a a
11:53:43 <dminuoso> type Lens s t a b = forall f . Functor f => (a -> f b) -> s -> f t
11:53:45 <dminuoso> So
11:54:02 <dminuoso> We call this particular encoding of "lenses" (a term not known back then) as van laarhoven encoding, as tribute to him
11:54:36 <mouseghost> i see, i couldn't find the proper van laarhoven hence i asked :P thanks
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12:31:51 hackage polysemy-path 0.2.0.0 - Polysemy versions of Path functions. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/polysemy-path-0.2.0.0 (locallycompact)
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12:39:51 hackage aeson-injector 1.1.5.0 - Injecting fields into aeson values https://hackage.haskell.org/package/aeson-injector-1.1.5.0 (NCrashed)
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12:53:40 <sondr3> How are people structuring their AoC projects for Haskell? I did it last year with a separate binary for each day but didn't really enjoy how I structured it
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12:56:39 <tomsmeding> haskell files and a Makefile :p https://git.tomsmeding.com/AOC/tree/2019
12:56:50 <tomsmeding> less cruft more better
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13:09:07 <sondr3> Very KISS, I like it
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13:12:25 <tomsmeding> (In the unlikely case that I find myself wanting to use a library not in the core GHC package, I'll use cabal :) )
13:13:20 tomsmeding guesses that 'random' is the most likely candidate for such a library
13:17:34 tomsmeding will be finishing his thesis in december so won't have much time for AoC anyway :(
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13:23:31 <__monty__> Heh, most exiting thing about my AoC setup is I might go with Megaparsec rather than ReadP this year >.<
13:25:09 <solonarv> I'll probably just steal jle's framework this year :p
13:25:23 <xerox_> I do a simple cabal project with a library and many executables
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13:40:53 <merijn> I'll do the same as last year, finish 5 days of puzzles and then get to busy with work :p
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13:44:58 <sondr3> First year where all my exams are done before AoC,
13:45:22 <sondr3> so I'll probably give up when I start spending many hours on each problem *
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14:13:26 <__monty__> merijn: Similar, though I try to beat more days each year.
14:13:58 <__monty__> sondr3: That'd mean I have to stop on day 1 -_-
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14:17:52 <merijn> __monty__: I had to focus on getting a paper done last year, this year I still have 2 chapters of thesis rewriting that conflicts with useful things, like AoC :p
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14:51:21 hackage jvm-batching 0.2.0 - Provides batched marshalling of values between Java and Haskell. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/jvm-batching-0.2.0 (FacundoDominguez)
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15:16:25 <timCF> Hello guys! Any DHall users there? How do I create `newtype` in DHall? And how to derive `Show` instance for custom types like enums?
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15:18:28 <timCF> Because without `newtype` signatures of functions and types are looking kinda disappointing, everything is like `Text -> Text -> Text -> Text`
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15:38:59 <kupi> how to ignore a specific rule in a specific function with hlint?
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15:39:28 <kupi> i think redundant lambda can improve readibility if there are many parameters and the result is intended as a function
15:39:51 <kupi> equalP' f k = \w x y z -> f w x y z == k instead of equalP' f k w x y z = f w x y z == k
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15:42:10 <kupi> i know there is: {- HLINT ignore "Redundant lambda" -}, but this makes it to ignore for other functions
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15:45:06 <merijn> kupi: hlint is full of questionable recommendations
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15:45:36 <merijn> It is a very opinionated tool, so if your opinions are different from Neil Mitchell, you'll have to customise it heavily
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15:47:46 <__monty__> timCF: Maybe try #dhall.
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16:56:55 <maerwald> merijn: you can't really customize it, can you?
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17:16:47 <tomjaguarpaw> You can customize it with a yaml file, can't you? https://neilmitchell.blogspot.com/2017/04/hlint-20-with-yaml-configuration.html
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17:27:25 <kupi> i did
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17:27:26 <kupi> - ignore: {name: Redundant lambda}
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17:39:54 <ezzieyguywuf> glguy: with config-schema, let's say I want tho config file to require one or more top-level sections, each with the same specification. In other words, to use the example from the documentation, let's say that "name", "age" etc were all underneath a section "Person1", and I wanted to allow an arbitrary number of persons, "Person2", "Person3", etc... would the only way to accomplish this be to
17:40:00 <ezzieyguywuf> create a list at the top-level?
17:40:36 <glguy> Yeah, you could have a top-level list
17:41:12 <ezzieyguywuf> glguy: https://dpaste.com/FF6PKHXHJ
17:41:37 <ezzieyguywuf> glguy: so would doing something as I've posted here be impossible? i.e. without using a list, let the user specify an arbitrary number of PersonN?
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17:43:33 <ezzieyguywuf> I think it'd have to look like this https://dpaste.com/E2JT7RLMW or this https://dpaste.com/E2JT7RLMW
17:43:37 <ezzieyguywuf> unless I'm missing something
17:43:41 <glguy> I'll look now
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17:44:32 <Sonolin> I just realized BSD-3 requires me to include the license of the dependency when I distribute in binary form... is there an easy way to get all these licenses via stack? Or at least a way to just retrieve all the dependencies' source code?
17:44:32 <glguy> ezzieyguywuf, I think you want this: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/config-schema-1.2.1.0/docs/Config-Schema-Spec.html#v:assocSpec
17:44:44 <glguy> >> Specification for a section list where the keys are user-defined. Values are matched against the underlying specification and returned as a list of section-name/value pairs.
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17:46:05 <ezzieyguywuf> glguy: 👍️ I think you're right! thanks again for your prompt response and your help.
17:46:23 <glguy> ezzieyguywuf, Do you have a usecase in mind, or are you in the learning phase first?
17:46:31 <ezzieyguywuf> glguy: I have a use-case
17:46:47 <ezzieyguywuf> glguy: I could post an example of what I'm after if you'd like
17:46:56 <glguy> sure
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17:51:56 <ezzieyguywuf> glguy: I think something like this https://dpaste.com/C7QAL6VTG
17:52:45 <__monty__> timCF: You can define values of type Type, which is what you'd want to do I think, e.g., https://github.com/dhall-lang/dhall-lang/blob/v19.0.0/Prelude/XML/Type.dhall
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17:53:52 <__monty__> timCF: There's no way I know of to derive implementations of functions in dhall.
17:54:29 <glguy> ezzieyguywuf: one note, unquoted "atoms" and quoted "strings" are intended to be distinct
17:54:57 <glguy> ezzieyguywuf: Are you using this with hledger, perhaps?
17:55:23 <ezzieyguywuf> glguy: yes, with hledger. and I'm aware of the atom vs. string distinction, but I didn't think I could use a string as a section name
17:55:34 <glguy> I was looking at the MatchStrings
17:55:47 <glguy> like line 16 would be a problem
17:55:48 <ezzieyguywuf> glguy: ah, yes those should be quoted
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17:56:05 <ezzieyguywuf> MatchStrings should be a list of strings, no atoms
17:56:28 <ezzieyguywuf> line 3 would be a problem, due to the apostrophe, no?
17:56:50 <glguy> Yeah, there were multiple problems, I was just trying to be specific
17:57:21 <glguy> You could definitely express that fragment in config-schema, though
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17:59:08 <ezzieyguywuf> glguy: right. (fixed the errors btw https://dpaste.com/CRFUTYMZE). so assocSpec here would return [("walgreens", MyReturnData), ("sheetz", MyReturnData), ("amazon", MyReturnData)]
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17:59:24 <ezzieyguywuf> right?
17:59:38 <glguy> Yeah
18:00:02 <glguy> and then if you wanted to do the "automatically added" part you'd (fmap autoadd) over that list to fold in the name
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18:00:49 <ezzieyguywuf> right. well, I'm storing it as a Data.List.NonEmpty, so I take the name as the starting point then concat the (possibly empty) list from MatchStrings
18:02:25 <ezzieyguywuf> glguy: what's the difference between, say, optSection and optSection'? I see that one has a "HasSpec" requirement on 'a', but I don't really understand the distinction.
18:02:59 <glguy> One uses the element type to pick the schema and the other takes a manually specified one
18:04:20 <ezzieyguywuf> glguy: so `name <- reqSection "name" "Full name"` I gues (a) the type of `name` is inferredd to be Text, and (b) Text has a HasSpec instance?
18:04:32 <glguy> yeah
18:04:45 <ezzieyguywuf> gotcha.
18:06:03 <glguy> fmap (\(n,(x,y,z,w)) -> (n NonEmpty.:| x, y, z, w)) <$> assocSpec (sectionsSpec "entry" ((,,,) <$> (fromMaybe [] <$> optSection "MatchStrings" "doc") <*> reqSection "MuxedDescription" "doc" <*> reqSection "DebitAccount" "doc" <*> reqSection "CreditAccount" "doc")) :: ValueSpec [(NonEmpty Text, Text, Text, Text)]
18:06:32 <glguy> You'd want to use a record, maybe some ApplicativeDo, real names, etc.
18:06:54 <glguy> but that would match the example you pasted
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18:07:13 <maerwald> Sono
18:07:23 <maerwald> Sonolin: cabal-plan license-report
18:07:43 <Sonolin> maerwald thanks!
18:07:52 <ezzieyguywuf> glguy: neat thank you!
18:07:55 <Sonolin> I don't seem to have cabal installed, can I execute that through stack?
18:08:10 <maerwald> probably not
18:08:20 <ezzieyguywuf> stack install caball?
18:08:24 <ezzieyguywuf> though that's probably a bad idea..
18:08:32 <maerwald> I'm suspecting cabal-plan needs the plan.json, which only cabal generates
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18:09:41 <Sonolin> hmm ok... I mean I'm pretty sure stack uses cabal somehow under the hood, but I'll look into it thanks for the help
18:09:59 <geekosaur> it doesn't in general
18:10:07 <geekosaur> it's an alternative to cabal
18:10:48 <Sonolin> ah ok
18:10:57 <Sonolin> looks like cabal-plan is on stackage I'll try installing that I guess
18:14:44 <sm[m]> Sonolin: you can of course stack install cabal-install. But usually it's quicker to find a binary package
18:16:02 <maerwald> don't use stack to install cabal, because you don't know whether you will get an up2date version
18:16:30 <sm[m]> sigh maerwald you are here to test me :)
18:16:36 <maerwald> :D
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18:16:45 <maerwald> running property tests over you
18:17:51 <sm[m]> as with cabal, stack has rules for picking which version to install by default so to be sure of getting the latest you should specify that version
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18:19:56 <sm[m]> neither tool has a "get me the latest" flag alas
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18:21:19 <monochrom> In the case of cabal-install, that depends on exe vs lib
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18:22:49 <monochrom> "cabal install <pkg>" (such that it installs the exes of pkg) gets you the latest by default, you have to saying something to override.
18:23:29 <monochrom> "cabal install --lib <pkg>" (such that it installs the library of pkg) tends to prefer an installed version and report "up to date".
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18:28:33 <sm[m]> monochrom: only if you do cabal update first
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18:29:15 <sm[m]> otherwise you can't be sure. Maybe later cabal has changed, I'm speaking of commonly installed versions
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18:46:30 <avdb> Is there a way I can use elem on two lists instead of recursing through the first list element by element?
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18:46:52 <koz_> avdb: What do you mean? Do you want to do a list intersection or something?
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18:47:15 <monochrom> Yeah it depends on what problem you are solving.
18:47:54 <monochrom> You should spell out your one single case rather than expecting a 2-hour lecture that covers all cases.
18:48:01 <avdb> koz_: I want to know if [1,2,3,4,5] contains any element of [1,2,3] for example, instead of doing `elem 1 [1,2,3] ...` for every single element.
18:50:27 <monochrom> That really requires a nested loop. Although you can use library functions so you don't have to handcode your own recursion tediously.
18:50:49 <avdb> I don't like the idea of library functions for small programs ...
18:51:05 <monochrom> Unless you further know that both lists are sorted under a known total order.
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18:51:24 <koz_> avdb: You can use Sets. Take the set difference between (the Set based on) [1,2,3] and (the Set based on) [1,2,3,4,5,6]. Set diff is 'all elements in A that are not also in B'. If you get back the same as the first set, then there are none; otherwise, the one(s) you're missing are in there.
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18:51:48 <koz_> avdb: Prelude is a library. containers comes with GHC itself (it's a boot library).
18:51:51 <koz_> I don't see the issue.
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18:52:32 <monochrom> You like handcoding your own "mysum [] = 0; mysum (x:xs) = x + mysum xs" boilerplate instead of simply "foldr (+) 0" and be done with it?
18:52:40 <avdb> Alright, I wasted enough time on this problem already so let's stop being stubborn.
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18:52:51 <koz_> monochrom: You mean foldl' (+) 0 right?
18:52:54 <ezzieyguywuf> glguy: in the example you provided, how come `optSection "MatchStrings" "doc"` doesn't need `listSpec` somewhere?
18:53:13 <monochrom> well let's say I really like the foldr version for some reason
18:53:23 <glguy> ezzieyguywuf: there's an instance HasSpec a => HasSpec [a]
18:53:28 <glguy> and instance HasSpec TExt
18:53:28 <koz_> monochrom: Sure. This is a demo of why libraries are usually the better call for common problems :P
18:53:54 <monochrom> any (`elem` [1,2,3]) [1,2,3,4,5] -- done
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18:55:13 <ezzieyguywuf> glguy: ah, so the `ValueSpec [Text]` is deduced, i get it. if I wanted to write that one line in applicative-do with a type annotanio, it'd be `matches <- optSection "MatchString" "doc" :: Maybe [Text]`, right?
18:55:27 <monochrom> another way: not (null (intersect [1,2,3,4,5] [1,2,3]))
18:55:28 <ezzieyguywuf> or `Maybe [ValueSpec Text]`?
18:55:41 <glguy> ezzieyguywuf: ValueSpec (Maybe [Text])
18:56:17 <ezzieyguywuf> hmmm, very nice. glguy thanks again.
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19:02:01 <avdb> Jesus Christ. Even with external libraries this exercise is extremely difficult. I need to tell the difference between uppercase messages and lowercase messages. Sounds easy right?
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19:02:41 <avdb> Problem is that "1,2,3" should return False while "1,2,3 GO!" should return True (since it doesn't contain lowercase characters).
19:02:53 <avdb> Can someone please help me? I already spent more than 5 hours on this problem.
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19:03:26 <monochrom> > any isUpper "1,2,3 GO!"
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19:03:29 <lambdabot> True
19:03:37 <monochrom> isUpper is in Data.Char
19:03:44 <avdb> I know.
19:03:55 <monochrom> But even writing your own recursion takes only 1 minute. What 5 hours.
19:03:59 <avdb> Man I should've asked for help earlier but it feels like cheating.
19:04:06 <ezzieyguywuf> (it is cheating)
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19:04:08 <avdb> I didn't know about `any`
19:04:20 <ezzieyguywuf> well, asking for help isn't cheating
19:04:25 <ezzieyguywuf> asking for answers is cheating
19:04:43 <avdb> Not if you tried really hard I guess.
19:04:46 <avdb> monochrom: Thanks.
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19:05:22 <monochrom> Why I'm more successful than you is because I invested those 5 hours on reading Prelude and Data.List and Data.Char from cover to cover, instead of invested in false confidence in my own competence.
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19:06:05 <glguy> and then years of using it?
19:06:05 <avdb> Where can I learn more about STL functions? There's Hoogle but I find it very difficult to read.
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19:06:43 <monochrom> Yes glguy, years of taking only 1 second to recall "that's just another foldr"
19:06:52 <ezzieyguywuf> oh nice, `concat (Maybe [a])` produces an empty list or a list, that's so handy!
19:07:02 <glguy> STL is a C++ library. I like using http://cppreference.com/ to read about it
19:07:04 <monochrom> GHC comes with complete documentation.
19:07:26 <monochrom> It is somewhere on your harddisk already, too.
19:07:33 <avdb> glguy: I meant standard library functions in Haskell like (++) and index for example.
19:07:50 <monochrom> People spent lifetimes searching hoogle and not even 1 minute searching their own hard disk
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19:08:10 <monochrom> But I guess that's the definition of "I am too proud to be an introvert"
19:08:19 <avdb> monochrom: I know, I really do know. Where did you find it?
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19:08:59 <xerox_> https://www.stackage.org/haddock/lts-16.23/base-4.13.0.0/Prelude.html
19:09:11 <avdb> You can stop making me out for stupid right there by the way, I already acknowledged my mistake.
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19:15:50 <maerwald> monochrom: accessing my hard disk takes longer than a HTTP request :p
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19:16:25 <avdb> maerwald: You can find GHC's documentation in .ghcup/share/doc/ :)
19:16:38 <avdb> (If you didn't know already, trying to be helpful)
19:16:48 <maerwald> should probably try that :D
19:17:21 <maerwald> the vim hoogle plugin is also quite handy
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19:17:39 <maerwald> so I use vim hoogle and codex (via hasktags)
19:17:54 <maerwald> both are limited, but they don't crash my PC like LSP
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19:20:44 <frdg> if I move my ~/.stack directory will my existing stack projects get confused?
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19:21:01 <Sonolin> they will probably re-download all the dependencies and stuff
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19:21:20 <Sonolin> but you can always move it back
19:21:23 <frdg> ok that is fine
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19:25:56 <avdb> monochrom: I finally realize that I could've used filter all along to filter symbols and numbers. Facepalm.
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19:26:48 <frdg> Sonolin: you were correct that it is re-downloading all the stuff. My question now is what happened to the old downloaded stuff?
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19:27:04 <maerwald> frdg: you moved it
19:27:08 <Sonolin> yea it goes in .stack
19:27:12 <maerwald> :D
19:28:02 <frdg> I dont see why if I only moved it, it has to redownload though.
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19:28:43 <geekosaur> you mean, you moved it and then moved it back and it's still redownloading?
19:28:57 <_deepfire> So, I'm thinking of implementing reifyType :: Typeable a => Q Type myself, because apparently TH doesn't have anything that can be used to make it.
19:29:07 <frdg> and by redownload I mean I am trying to run the program and it is compiling everything again
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19:34:09 <frdg> oh wait a second I see what is going on now. It compiles into ~/.stack...this directory is not what I thought it was
19:34:14 <Sonolin> frdg ~/.stack contains the GHC snapshot & dependencies for stack projects... if you move that folder, then it will redownload everything to a new "~/.stack" folder
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19:35:52 <ezzieyguywuf> glguy: hah, it works! I took your example and prettified it a bit with applicative-do etc, to make it more legible. https://dpaste.com/6H9HE8UVM
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19:36:20 <ezzieyguywuf> glguy: I can see now the appeal of the config-value and config-schema approach to configuration. very nice, very neat.
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19:37:16 <avdb> I finally fixed my problem but my codebase is a mess since I mixed up pattern matching with guards, how do I create a guard case for an empty list?
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19:37:30 <avdb> `null (x:xs)` doesn't look good
19:37:35 <avdb> I doubt it even works lol
19:37:44 <geekosaur> that can't be null
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19:37:52 <frdg> Sonolin: this is clear to me now thanks
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19:38:03 <avdb> geekosaur: wdym?
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19:38:04 <monochrom> Give null the actual list you care about?
19:38:29 <geekosaur> because you built a new list (x:xs) which by construction is not null
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19:38:38 <ezzieyguywuf> avdb: "my codebase is a mess since..." maybe clean up the code first?
19:38:41 <avdb> Oh. Thanks.
19:38:49 <avdb> ezzieyguywuf: That's what I'm asking help for ...
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19:39:16 <avdb> I don't know how to fix most stuff since I only used what I know but I promise to read the documentation on my hard-drive after this!
19:39:18 <geekosaur> foo xs | null xs = ... | ... -- although I'd use patterns unless guards are needed (note also that you can combine them)
19:39:34 <glguy> ezzieyguywuf: yeah, I think that cleaned up nicely
19:39:50 <avdb> I will just go with lst instead of (x:xs) and replace xs with tail
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19:40:05 <geekosaur> foo [] = ...; foo (x:xs) | someConditionOn x = ... | otherwise = ...
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19:40:47 <ezzieyguywuf> avdb: if you post your code perhaps we can provide some better tips
19:41:02 <avdb> geekosaur: What about where xs = tail lst? :)
19:41:03 <hololeap> avdb, null (x:xs) = False ; null [] = True
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19:41:08 <avdb> ezzieyguywuf: Second
19:41:12 <hololeap> that's all there is to know about `null` (on lists)
19:41:24 <ezzieyguywuf> hrm, I'm a bit skeptical of my use of PartialMatch, but it does get the job done...
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19:41:42 <glguy> ezzieyguywuf: if you used (matchSpec = sectionsSpec "match") instead of an "" there, the output of (generateDocs descrMatchSpec) makes more sense
19:42:14 <ezzieyguywuf> glguy: I was just about to start messing with generateDocs, so I'll try it both ways to see the differenc
19:42:20 <avdb> http://codepad.org/yUeYsJQ4
19:42:22 <avdb> Here you go!
19:43:01 <ezzieyguywuf> glguy: I must say, very nicely documented and organized code base, quite the pleasure to work with it.
19:43:40 <glguy> Thanks, I'll have that message for next time I'm feeling down :)
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19:44:25 <ezzieyguywuf> glguy: lol, no problem
19:45:01 <ezzieyguywuf> avdb: I think Data.List.Uncons may help clean that up a bit
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19:45:34 <ezzieyguywuf> although I wonder whether you truly need to split the list into head and tail...
19:46:43 <avdb> ezzieyguywuf: I don't, the solutions about work as well :P
19:47:01 <Sonolin> avdb using pattern matching would clean that up
19:47:12 <Sonolin> upperString [] = False
19:47:17 <Sonolin> upperString (x:xs) = ...
19:47:23 <hololeap> avdb: `upperString` could be simplified in a number of different ways
19:47:40 <ezzieyguywuf> Sonolin: also ned upperString (x) =...
19:47:40 <avdb> Sonolin: Alright, Alright, I first need to make sure it passes `stack test` though
19:47:55 <avdb> ned?
19:48:03 <ezzieyguywuf> uhrm, upperstring [x] =... well, whatever it is for a singlton
19:48:04 <ezzieyguywuf> *need
19:48:22 <ezzieyguywuf> also, that was intended for Sonolin sorry.
19:48:25 <Sonolin> ezzieyguywuf ? I don't think so, upperString (x:xs) should take care of that since xs can still be an empty list
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19:48:33 <hololeap> % upperString :: String -> Bool ; upperString [] = False ; upperString xs = all isUpper xs
19:48:33 <yahb> hololeap:
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19:48:46 <ezzieyguywuf> Sonolin: ah hah, your type-fu obviously surpasses mine
19:48:51 <hololeap> % upperString "ABCD"
19:48:51 <yahb> hololeap: True
19:48:57 <hololeap> % upperString "aBc"
19:48:57 <yahb> hololeap: False
19:49:00 <hololeap> % upperString ""
19:49:00 <yahb> hololeap: False
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19:49:29 <ezzieyguywuf> %upperString "1,2,3 GO!"
19:49:35 <ezzieyguywuf> drat
19:49:39 <ezzieyguywuf> % upperString "1,2,3 GO!"
19:49:39 <yahb> ezzieyguywuf: False
19:50:34 <avdb> hololeap: So there's any and all ... thanks ... didn't know that ...
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19:51:33 <hololeap> avdb: yes, and `all f []` always returns True, which is why you need the special case for the empty list
19:51:43 <hololeap> if you want the empty list to return False, that is
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19:52:07 <monochrom> I wonder if you really benefit from upperString [] = False
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20:18:19 <avdb> > all isUpper ""
20:18:21 <lambdabot> True
20:18:50 <ezzieyguywuf> > all [isUpper "", not null ""]
20:18:53 <lambdabot> error:
20:18:53 <lambdabot> • Couldn't match expected type ‘a -> Bool’
20:18:53 <lambdabot> with actual type ‘[Bool]’
20:18:54 <avdb> Thanks!
20:18:57 <avdb> Ouch
20:19:01 <ezzieyguywuf> dang
20:19:19 <avdb> all isUpper xs && not null xs?
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20:19:47 <ezzieyguywuf> yea that
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20:21:58 <avdb> > upperString xs = (all isUpper $ filter isLetter " ") && (not $ null " ")
20:22:01 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:16: error: <hint>:1:16: error: parse error on input ‘=’
20:22:09 <avdb> > (all isUpper $ filter isLetter " ") && (not $ null " ")
20:22:11 <lambdabot> True
20:22:27 <avdb> This is supposed to return false :$
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20:24:31 <Sonolin> don't need the filter
20:24:40 <avdb> I do for whitespace
20:24:51 <Sonolin> > all isUpper " "
20:24:54 <lambdabot> False
20:25:05 <avdb> Ouch!
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20:26:12 <avdb> Nope. I do. Otherwise "WATCH OUT!" won't return True.
20:26:31 <Sonolin> well you can do
20:26:36 <Sonolin> > any isUpper "WATCH OUT!"
20:26:38 <lambdabot> True
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20:26:58 <avdb> > any isUpper "WaTCH OUT!"
20:27:01 <lambdabot> True
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20:27:12 <Sonolin> but if you truly want the filter you'll have to refactor that so you're checking not null on the filtered string as well
20:27:12 <avdb> Is supposed to return false since one letter is lowercase
20:28:02 <Sonolin> something like this
20:28:04 <Sonolin> > let xs = filter isLetter "WATCH OUT!" in all isUpper xs && not (null xs)
20:28:07 <lambdabot> True
20:28:14 <Sonolin> > let xs = filter isLetter " " in all isUpper xs && not (null xs)
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20:28:17 <lambdabot> False
20:28:54 <avdb> Now we broke response for numbers only
20:29:04 <avdb> all isUpper "12234"
20:29:06 <avdb> > all isUpper "12234"
20:29:09 <lambdabot> False
20:29:39 <Sonolin> you'll have to change the filter than
20:29:55 <Sonolin> gotta go but you should be able to figure it out, you're close
20:30:10 <avdb> I really am ... what a headache
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20:34:36 <sondr3> That's a harsh name change :p
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20:43:47 <sondr3> I'm about to add an environment to my toy language, previously my state has been either `Map String Val` or `[(String, Val)]`. Should I look into using something like the Reader or State monad?
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20:47:19 <Rembane> sondr3: State monad is good if you have many functions, otherwise a f :: SomeStateType -> (SomeStateType, a) works for quite a while
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20:49:17 <dminuoso> State monad also helps against accidents. When you write `\x -> let (x', v) = f x in ...` you can easily mix up x and x' over time
20:49:27 <dminuoso> Or when you tend to have multiple values of type SomeStateType around
20:49:37 <dminuoso> And it can be more expressive
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20:50:04 <dminuoso> Since it opens up the realm of applicative/monad combinators like traverse
20:50:27 <solonarv> if your toy language has only immutable bindings then you don't actually need the full power of State, you can continue using Reader
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20:50:59 <solonarv> note that 'Reader E a' is the same thing as 'E -> a', and 'State S a' is the same thing as 'S -> (a, S)'
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20:54:06 <monochrom> Environment does not behave like State.
20:54:46 <monochrom> You can still use state to emulate environment. But that requires understanding both.
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20:57:43 <dminuoso> And you can use environment as state if you have IO.
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21:22:32 <mang0[m]> hi
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21:37:49 <ezzieyguywuf> is there something like `mGetFile :: FilePath -> Maybe Text` is Base that returns Nothing if the file doesn't exist?
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21:38:04 <ezzieyguywuf> I see `Data.Text.IO.readFile` but this just throws an exception
21:38:30 <ezzieyguywuf> or rather, should I check for existence of the file some other way?
21:38:59 <f-a> ezzieyguywuf: it seems one of those oops which are better handled by- yes, use
21:39:01 <f-a> @hoogle FilePath -> IO Bool
21:39:03 <lambdabot> System.Directory doesPathExist :: FilePath -> IO Bool
21:39:03 <lambdabot> System.Directory doesFileExist :: FilePath -> IO Bool
21:39:03 <lambdabot> System.Directory doesDirectoryExist :: FilePath -> IO Bool
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21:39:24 <f-a> if you want the -> Maybe String, capture that exception
21:39:31 <maerwald> ezzieyguywuf: no, you catch the excpetion isDoesNotExistError
21:40:05 <maerwald> cehcking for existence before accessing the file is an anti-pattern :)
21:40:06 <ezzieyguywuf> so I've been operating under the general rule of thumb that I should prefer to use Maybe rather than exceptions when programming is haskell
21:40:28 <maerwald> yes, you can turn the exception into a Nothing
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21:41:04 <ezzieyguywuf> how do you catch an exception in haskell?
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21:41:33 <maerwald> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.14.0.0/docs/Control-Exception.html#v:handle
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21:42:20 <ezzieyguywuf> ah hah, I see
21:42:25 <ezzieyguywuf> maerwald: thank you.
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21:50:37 <ezzieyguywuf> I'm still struggling - I understand how catch/handle are supposed to work, but how do I know if I'm accounting for every possible exception?
21:50:42 <ezzieyguywuf> or is that impractical?
21:50:54 <maerwald> ezzieyguywuf: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.14.0.0/docs/System-IO-Error.html#v:isDoesNotExistError
21:50:59 <maerwald> you only care about that one
21:51:10 <maerwald> and possibly https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.14.0.0/docs/System-IO-Error.html#v:isPermissionError
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21:51:43 <maerwald> so you check the error in the handler with those two functions
21:51:55 <ezzieyguywuf> isDoesNotExistError returns a bool, but handle expects an `e -> IO a`
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21:52:08 <maerwald> yes, you should be able to figure this out :p
21:52:57 <maerwald> look at the whole type signature and specialize the `a`
21:53:10 <ezzieyguywuf> lol, I should be able to figure this out...
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21:53:50 <monochrom> ezzieyguywuf: http://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/exception-tutorial.xhtml#subtyping
21:54:06 <ezzieyguywuf> hrm, the documentation for catch is helpful here
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21:54:15 <ezzieyguywuf> monochrom: ah, I'll have to check that out
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22:00:05 <maerwald> ezzieyguywuf: https://gitlab.haskell.org/haskell/ghcup-hs/-/blob/master/lib/GHCup/Utils/Prelude.hs#L183 this is similar to what you need to do
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22:01:04 <maerwald> so instead of `pure ()` you probably want something else
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22:08:35 <dminuoso> 22:50:37 ezzieyguywuf | I'm still struggling - I understand how catch/handle are supposed to work, but how do I know if I'm accounting for every possible exception?
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22:08:58 <dminuoso> ezzieyguywuf: It depends. Are you catching someone elses exceptions, or is the exception throwing part under your control?
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22:10:40 <dminuoso> https://simonmar.github.io/bib/papers/ext-exceptions.pdf is a great read either way. If you get to control the exceptions, you can put them in this hierarchy and then have fine control over how to catch exceptions. If it's someone elses exceptions, it depends on their exception hygiene.
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22:11:16 <dminuoso> That publication is a little more formal and detailed version of monochrom's tutorial
22:11:24 <dminuoso> But very readable
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22:21:48 <iqubic> monochrom has a tutorial?
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22:27:38 <iqubic> What's the status on the Monad of No Return proposal?
22:27:40 <iqubic> https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/proposal/monad-of-no-return
22:29:55 <ezzieyguywuf> dminuoso: catching someone else's (base's) exception
22:30:46 <dminuoso> ezzieyguywuf: So that's one of the sad parts of Haskell. It's usually not communicated or documented what IO exceptions can be thrown.. :(
22:30:54 <dminuoso> There's of course the sledge hammer of catching SomeException...
22:31:04 <dminuoso> But then you also must make sure not to recover from async exceptions..
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22:31:26 <maerwald> and then you realize there's a library for that... and then you confuse the imports in your codebase
22:31:39 dminuoso just uses Async.Exception and has banned Control.Exception
22:31:45 <dminuoso> That addresses that second part. :p
22:31:52 <dminuoso> errr
22:31:54 <dminuoso> *UnliftIO.Exception
22:32:01 <ezzieyguywuf> I just watch to (a) try to open a file. if fail, tell user. (b) try to Config.parse said file (from config-value). if fail, tell user. (c) try to Config.Schema.loadFile said parsed file (from config-schema). if fail, tell user
22:32:42 <ezzieyguywuf> I'd like a different message to the user depending on where the failure occurs. I was thinking of runExceptT since Config.parse and loadFile both return an Either
22:33:18 <ezzieyguywuf> but then for the first step, I guess I have to catch/handle, and convert to an IO (Either Text Text)
22:33:33 <ezzieyguywuf> and I guess also I need to convert the Left of Config.parse to be consistent
22:33:45 <maerwald> yes, please mix ExceptT with IO and open unions and then get confused by your own code
22:33:58 <maerwald> I also thought it's cool
22:34:02 <ezzieyguywuf> yea already confused
22:34:06 <ezzieyguywuf> so I guess this is a bad idea, lol
22:34:14 <maerwald> now I need 2 exception handlers, one for IO, one for exceptT
22:34:24 <maerwald> and then the code still crashes, lol
22:34:49 <dminuoso> Well the question is whether you can recover from it, or whether you just want to produce a sensible diagnostic.
22:35:23 <ezzieyguywuf> if any of those three operations fail, the program needs to exit and tell the user why
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22:40:21 <ezzieyguywuf> actually I think only one of the three, the first, is even an IO action
22:40:34 <ezzieyguywuf> the other two are pure functions that return an Either, so ExceptT is definitely not the right call here
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22:41:16 <ezzieyguywuf> i think I'll just start with the nested case statements
22:41:24 <ezzieyguywuf> and then post it and see if we can clean it up any
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23:23:25 <iqubic> So, I have a cabal project, and I'd like to turn on -Wall for every file. Currently I'm just adding "{-# OPTIONS_GHC -Wall #-}" to the top of every file, but I feel there's some configuration I can add to my .cabal file to do this for me. Is that true?
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23:30:51 <solonarv> it is true, yes; you can also add it to cabal.project or cabal.project.local (I would recommend one of the latter two)
23:31:13 <sclv> also your cabal file itself you can toss in a ghc-options: -Wall
23:31:29 <sclv> in the lib or executable stanzas
23:31:57 <iqubic> sclv: That's what I was looking for.
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23:35:15 <hekkaidekapus> iqubic: To expand a bit, i) if there is a single package in the project, you can edit the .cabal file to use the `ghc-options` field for any components (library, executable,…). The field is like any other, `build-depends` for instance. ii) If there are many packages in the project, consider using a `cabal.project`. There, use a `package` stanza under which you will use the same field.
23:35:45 <iqubic> It's a single project.
23:35:51 <hekkaidekapus> Further reading: i) <https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.4/cabal-package.html#pkg-field-ghc-options>, ii) <https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.4/cabal-project.html#package-configuration-options>
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