Logs on 2020-12-15 (freenode/#haskell)
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| 00:23:18 | justsomeguy | sometimes wonders why so few languages have full type inference. |
| 00:24:30 | <koz_> | maerwald: I'm getting something weird with ghcup. If I try to get cabal 3.4.0.0-rc4 via 'ghcup install cabal', cURL vomits saying that it's unable to get a local issuer certificate. |
| 00:24:58 | <koz_> | I can download fine from the URL it's hitting in my web browser, and I'm fairly confident it's not an issue with cURL or my certificate chain - other sites work fine. |
| 00:25:18 | <koz_> | justsomeguy: 'Full' type inference can mean a few different things. |
| 00:25:27 | <koz_> | There's definitely limits to what's possible to automagically infer. |
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| 00:37:19 | <monochrom> | It's because very few languages stay close to rank-1 parameteric polymorphism, where type inference is both do-able and beneficial. |
| 00:38:36 | <koz_> | monochrom: Rank-1 parametric polymorphism = Hindley-Damas-Milner? |
| 00:38:39 | <monochrom> | Apart from the ML heritage (SML, Caml, OCaml, maybe F#) and the Haskell heritage (Gopher, Miranda, Haskell), no one seems interested in rank-1 parametric polymorphism. |
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| 00:38:43 | <monochrom> | Yeah. |
| 00:39:07 | <koz_> | monochrom: And (GHC at least) Haskell has shot well past HDM at this point. |
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| 00:39:28 | <dolio> | Haskell doesn't have full type inference. |
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| 00:39:37 | <monochrom> | Algol, Pascal, C: Not even polymorphic, and their idea of types is mostly to clarify "how many bytes so the code generator knows" |
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| 00:40:32 | <monochrom> | Simula, Smalltalk, shells, Perl, Python, PHP: What are "types"? |
| 00:41:05 | <monochrom> | C++, Java, C#: Subtyping kills type inference. Hell, even OCaml has to tell you sometimes it can't infer. |
| 00:41:37 | <monochrom> | Coq, Agda, Idris: Dependent typing kills type inference. |
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| 00:43:45 | <monochrom> | Yes, GHC has done pretty reasonable heuristic annotation-aided inference in the face of rank-n, and soon we'll also get impredicativity, too. |
| 00:44:17 | <monochrom> | All this does is to set GHC-Haskell as the only language interested in impredicative rank-n parameteric polymorphism. |
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| 00:48:42 | <koz_> | monochrom: Yeah, I am dreaming of the day I won't have to deal with runST-oriented GHC vom. |
| 00:48:56 | <koz_> | (which makes me do a double take before I go "oh, it's that damn impredicativity thing") |
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| 00:52:17 | <monochrom> | Actually, the case of Coq, Agda, Idris may be the opposite of what I said. |
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| 00:52:43 | <monochrom> | Coq, Agda, Idris: Why infer types? You write the type, emacs infers the term. |
| 00:54:08 | <monochrom> | Right? They are theorem provers. Meaning, you write your conjecture, the computer tries to find a proof. They are not proof theoremers (you write the proof, the computer tries to find what theorem it proves.) |
| 00:55:29 | <monochrom> | (Please just laugh, I am joking.) |
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| 00:56:16 | <dolio> | Agda can infer a lot of types, though. |
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| 01:06:08 | <ezzieyguywuf> | do you all know of any tools outside of stack that can produce a visual like this? https://docs.haskellstack.org/en/stable/dependency_visualization/ |
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| 01:08:51 | <ezzieyguywuf> | ah, I guess ghc-pkg dot | tred | dot -Tpdf >pkgs.pdf will do the trick |
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| 01:10:10 | <ezzieyguywuf> | hrm, that doesn't look like my project though... |
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| 01:16:30 | <dsal> | I don't know how useful those things are for non-trivial apps. |
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| 01:18:52 | <ezzieyguywuf> | *shrug* |
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| 01:21:56 | <cnmne[m]> | ezzieyguywuf: this reminds me of `guix graph`: https://guix.gnu.org/manual/en/html_node/Invoking-guix-graph.html) |
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| 01:30:50 | <ezzieyguywuf> | cnmne[m]: I'll check it out thank you. |
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| 02:50:44 | <quarters> | hello. I'm not sure if this is more an emacs question or haskell, but I'm getting a number of flymake errors for missing modules after having installed haskell with ghcup |
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| 03:02:48 | <iqubic> | I'd say that's an Emacs question. |
| 03:04:15 | <quarters> | iqubic: thanks! |
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| 03:07:14 | <fresheyeball> | I am looking to use the compose operator in TH |
| 03:07:18 | <fresheyeball> | How can I do this? |
| 03:07:23 | <fresheyeball> | ''Prelude.. does not work |
| 03:07:29 | <fresheyeball> | ''Prelude.(.) does not work |
| 03:07:58 | <fresheyeball> | ''. does not work |
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| 03:10:19 | <jle`> | i'd presume (Prelude..) |
| 03:10:28 | <jle`> | the same way you'd use it in prefix form |
| 03:10:39 | <jle`> | > foldr (Prelude..) id [(+3),negate] 10 |
| 03:10:41 | <lambdabot> | -7 |
| 03:14:00 | <fresheyeball> | jle`: I am not getting it to work in TH though |
| 03:14:03 | <fresheyeball> | I need the ticks |
| 03:15:38 | <jle`> | yeah, i mean you can use (Prelude..) as the identifier :) |
| 03:15:43 | <jle`> | so you would tick the identifier |
| 03:15:47 | <jle`> | % '(Prelude..) |
| 03:15:48 | <yahb> | jle`: GHC.Base.. |
| 03:15:59 | <jle`> | just like how you'd tick any other identifier |
| 03:16:01 | <jle`> | % 'Nothing |
| 03:16:02 | <yahb> | jle`: GHC.Maybe.Nothing |
| 03:17:49 | <fresheyeball> | jle`: oic |
| 03:17:51 | <fresheyeball> | yeah that worked |
| 03:17:54 | <jle`> | :D |
| 03:17:56 | <fresheyeball> | VarE '(Prelude..) |
| 03:17:59 | <fresheyeball> | tricky! |
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| 03:30:00 | <justsomeguy> | *ticky |
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| 03:32:26 | <fresheyeball> | jle`: do you know how to input a normal haskell expression and get the TH equivelant? |
| 03:33:12 | <fresheyeball> | like I input \x -> x |
| 03:33:19 | <fresheyeball> | and get back FunD and all that non-sense |
| 03:34:48 | <MarcelineVQ> | that wouldn't be a FunD but you can runQ on a quasiquote to see things like that, runQ [| \x -> x |] |
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| 03:36:19 | <MarcelineVQ> | for a definition example runQ [d| { foo :: Int -> Int; foo x = 2 + x } |] |
| 03:36:30 | <fresheyeball> | MarcelineVQ: what about for a top level function? |
| 03:36:35 | <fresheyeball> | oh |
| 03:37:34 | <MarcelineVQ> | [| |] is equivalent to [e| |] expression, there's d for definition and t for type as well |
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| 03:52:33 | <fresheyeball> | ok |
| 03:52:39 | <fresheyeball> | so I got this mostly working |
| 03:52:49 | <fresheyeball> | $(foo ''KeyCode) doesn't work though |
| 03:53:04 | <fresheyeball> | I get "Illegal type variable name: 'KeyCode'" |
| 03:53:09 | <fresheyeball> | how can I pass this? |
| 03:53:11 | <fresheyeball> | it is a type |
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| 03:54:01 | <fresheyeball> | oop I got it |
| 03:54:04 | <fresheyeball> | ConT vs VarT |
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| 05:30:25 | <orzo> | is there a way to reduce the ghci prompt if it got too long after importing? |
| 05:31:13 | <Axman6> | you can make it smaller using import Foo.Bar.Baz as B, or you can set it (see :help) to anything you eant |
| 05:31:15 | <Axman6> | want* |
| 05:31:38 | <orzo> | i found :m on stackoverflow |
| 05:31:52 | <orzo> | which is good enough |
| 05:32:06 | <Axman6> | doesn't that remove the modules though? |
| 05:32:54 | <justsomeguy> | orzo: You can set the prompt with “:set prompt "prompt> "”, for example, and it won't show the module names anymore. |
| 05:33:35 | <orzo> | thanks |
| 05:33:43 | <orzo> | axman, i dont know, i imported on accident anyway |
| 05:33:58 | <Axman6> | you can yse :m -Foo.Bar to remove a single import |
| 05:34:03 | <Axman6> | use* |
| 05:34:06 | <justsomeguy> | orzo: To make the change permanent, you can put the string “:set prompt "whatever> "” into the ~/.ghci configuration file. |
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| 06:24:47 | <aplainzetakind> | Why doesn't ScopedTypeVariables help here: https://dpaste.com/D9V7W2RBS |
| 06:25:22 | <aplainzetakind> | GHC treats the inner s as not necessarily the same as the one in the signature of the function. |
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| 06:28:41 | <MarcelineVQ> | check the docs for Scoped, you have to explicitly activate it with a forall, like forall s. InputStream s => s -> ParsedInput |
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| 06:34:30 | <aplainzetakind> | MarcelineVQ: Oh right. Thanks. |
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| 06:55:16 | <guest1214> | parseString = do char '"'; x <- many (noneOf "\""); char '"'; return $ String x; this can match "abc", what if I want to match "server" in "server=abc"? |
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| 07:13:34 | <xerox_> | guest1214: if it's exactly that string you can match exactly the string I think the parser for that might be called "string" |
| 07:14:07 | <guest1214> | xerox_: ok |
| 07:15:04 | <xerox_> | otherwise if it's more general name=val you can do the same you did with many (notChar '=') (I forget the exact names of the combinators but you can find those) |
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| 07:28:17 | <dminuoso> | guest1214: Random side note, you probably should use `takeWhile/takeWhile/takeWhileP/takeWhile1P` instead of many on character parsers. :( |
| 07:28:38 | <dminuoso> | They perform much faster in the general case if you have more than 1-2 characters to parse |
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| 07:30:35 | <dminuoso> | For example in the implementation of attoparsec, `many someChar` will peek a single character, run the parser, and then branch into success or failure each time. With `takeWhileXX` it will work on entire chunks (which could be as large as 1kB) at a time. |
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| 07:48:09 | <guest1214> | dminuoso: actually I'm tring to re-write this https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/QzwX26Cchf/ with parsec |
| 07:48:47 | <guest1214> | read a file and get the context to a Map structure |
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| 08:46:52 | <kuribas> | What are the unique features of servant? |
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| 08:47:25 | <kuribas> | IMO you could have a formal specified API without actually doing type level computations. |
| 08:47:48 | <kuribas> | I guess the only unique feature of servant is that it can generate both a client and server from the same API. |
| 08:47:59 | <kuribas> | Which would be hard to do with value level computations. |
| 08:48:29 | <kuribas> | Also generating documentation wouldn't require a type level API. |
| 08:48:35 | <lortabac> | kuribas: "a formal specified API without actually doing type level computations" -> yes, but you would need code generation |
| 08:48:37 | <dminuoso> | It provides a type checked way to ensure your client/server handler specification line up. |
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| 08:48:48 | <kuribas> | lortabac: how so? |
| 08:48:49 | <dminuoso> | Under the hood I'd rather think of servant as generics than the other way around. |
| 08:48:59 | <lortabac> | kuribas: how not so? :) |
| 08:49:14 | <kuribas> | lortabac: combinators? |
| 08:49:45 | <dminuoso> | kuribas: You can get away without it, see scotty. |
| 08:50:03 | <dminuoso> | But you get absolutely no compile time guarantees, and you have assert routing dynamically, assert parameters dynamically, etc |
| 08:50:05 | <kuribas> | dminuoso: does scotty allow you to generate a swagger spec? |
| 08:50:09 | <kuribas> | right |
| 08:50:09 | <lortabac> | the other libraries to basically Value -> Value |
| 08:50:17 | <dminuoso> | And you get no static analyzability to build documentation, generate swagger |
| 08:50:18 | <dminuoso> | etc |
| 08:50:20 | <dminuoso> | kuribas: No |
| 08:50:35 | <kuribas> | I mean, my point is that it should be *possible*. |
| 08:50:43 | <dminuoso> | With a selective- framework, yes. |
| 08:50:45 | <lortabac> | kuribas: you would have to start from the specs (Swagger or other) and generate code |
| 08:50:55 | <dminuoso> | If there was some selective-scotty, you could generate swagger from it |
| 08:51:01 | <kuribas> | right |
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| 08:51:56 | <kuribas> | hmm, selective functors may be the thing for a graphql API... |
| 08:52:14 | <lortabac> | dminuoso: interesting, I had never thought about that |
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| 08:53:11 | <isovector1_> | is there a way to set the history size for :trace when debugging in ghci? |
| 08:53:17 | <isovector1_> | it seems to only keep 50 |
| 08:53:19 | <lortabac> | dminuoso: do you have an example of how this would work? |
| 08:53:30 | <isovector1_> | which isn't helpful if you're in a deep list comprehension |
| 08:54:08 | <dminuoso> | lortabac: The same as optparse-applicative, really. |
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| 08:58:09 | <dminuoso> | Perhaps applicative is enough in fact |
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| 08:59:57 | <lortabac> | strange that nobody has come up with the idea until now |
| 09:00:35 | <dminuoso> | I mean with selective we could do dynamic route dispatching based on content |
| 09:00:37 | <dminuoso> | something like |
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| 09:04:47 | <dminuoso> | router = ((get "/users/" *> intParam "userId") <&> getUserAction) <> (get "/users/" *> getUsersAction) |
| 09:04:50 | <dminuoso> | vs |
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| 09:05:41 | <dminuoso> | router = (branch (get "/users/" *> intOrStr "userId") userByIdAction userByNameAction) <> (get "/users/" *> getUsersAction) |
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| 09:06:47 | <dminuoso> | The idea seems cool, and would address some of the issues scotty has |
| 09:07:35 | <dminuoso> | Statically verify the routes dont overlap, have the type checker assist in correct action types, generate documentation/swagger/router |
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| 09:17:58 | <Kronic> | is there a way to execute stack ghci such that I don't need to reboot it when I install a new dependency? |
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| 09:22:34 | <kuribas> | dminuoso: what's selective there? |
| 09:22:39 | <kuribas> | it looks just applicative |
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| 09:23:52 | <dminuoso> | kuribas: the `branch` is selective |
| 09:24:31 | <dminuoso> | Ah, the code is a bit weird |
| 09:24:33 | <dminuoso> | Let me fix that |
| 09:27:20 | <kuribas> | dminuoso: how is that different from alternative? |
| 09:27:30 | <kuribas> | I would separate branches with alternative |
| 09:28:16 | <dminuoso> | kuribas: you dont get dynamic choice with alternative. |
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| 09:40:00 | kuribas | needs to read the paper... |
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| 09:45:08 | <guest1214> | parseServer :: Parser String; parseServer = string "server="; parse parseServer "not matched" "server=abc"; -- this can detect if the input string contain "server=" or not, how to get the value abc? |
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| 09:46:05 | <guest1214> | parseServer = {do; string "server="; return}? |
| 09:48:02 | <guest1214> | parseString :: Parser LispVal; parseString = do char '"'; x <- many (noneOf "\""); char '"'; return $ String x -- I saw an example like this, but I don't understand what it means? |
| 09:48:03 | <guest1214> | |
| 09:48:33 | <guest1214> | what "many (noneOf "\"")" is working on? |
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| 09:54:23 | <kuribas> | guest1214: that parses all characters upto (not including), a literal double quote. |
| 09:55:02 | <kuribas> | noneOf fails when it sees the given characters, otherwise it succeeds. |
| 09:55:17 | <kuribas> | sees *one of* the given characters I mean |
| 09:55:39 | <kuribas> | remmber thatt "\"" is the same as ['"'] |
| 09:55:50 | <kuribas> | a list with a single character. |
| 09:56:42 | <guest1214> | kuribas: but what `many (noneOf "\"")` apply on? |
| 09:57:23 | <kuribas> | guest1214: the input stream I suppose? |
| 09:57:28 | <kuribas> | it's a parser after all |
| 09:57:43 | <guest1214> | kuribas: but there's no a parameter name |
| 09:58:18 | <kuribas> | your question is not clear |
| 09:58:40 | <kuribas> | you mean the input stream as a parameter? |
| 09:58:57 | <guest1214> | kuribas: this first `char '"'` and the last `char '"'` will match double quote symbol in "abc", right? |
| 09:59:03 | <kuribas> | yes |
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| 09:59:46 | <guest1214> | then `many (noneOf "\"")` will apply on abc from "abc", right? |
| 10:00:40 | <kuribas> | yes |
| 10:01:26 | <guest1214> | wait a sec, but "abc" :: String, and `parse parseString "not matched" "abcde"` "abc" is not Parser String, that's ok? |
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| 10:04:14 | <kuribas> | can you rephrase that? |
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| 10:05:36 | <guest1214> | parse parseString "not matched" "abc=def" |
| 10:05:47 | <guest1214> | this input stream "abc=def" is String |
| 10:05:57 | <guest1214> | parseString :: Parser String |
| 10:06:40 | <guest1214> | parse function make parseString apply on "abc=def" ? |
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| 10:29:43 | <johnnyboy[m]> | anybody here has experience with regex-tdfa? |
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| 10:31:18 | <johnnyboy[m]> | I wonder what I'm doing wrong |
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| 10:32:18 | <johnnyboy[m]> | I have a regex made of this string: https://privatebin.net/?8f55cd084f15cd74#6H8ddBJ38nLkxQYTHRmw8F7aNkejTf4EvNHJ4rB9fQr9 |
| 10:32:44 | <johnnyboy[m]> | but it fails to match "0:05.66" |
| 10:33:02 | <johnnyboy[m]> | the documentation fails to specify the supported syntax |
| 10:33:23 | <johnnyboy[m]> | so I wrote the expression down in a rather primitive way |
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| 10:34:36 | <johnnyboy[m]> | wait, I should try grep first |
| 10:34:45 | <johnnyboy[m]> | to see if I made a stupid mistake somewhere |
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| 10:36:32 | <johnnyboy[m]> | ok, my regex might be messed up |
| 10:37:02 | <johnnyboy[m]> | still, I'd appreciate more comprehensive documentation on supported syntax |
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| 10:38:24 | <int-e> | johnnyboy[m]: is it the \\ ? |
| 10:38:34 | <johnnyboy[m]> | seems to be |
| 10:38:50 | <int-e> | Because the syntax is \. but when writing it as a Haskell string you need to quote the \ again. |
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| 10:39:23 | <johnnyboy[m]> | no, wait |
| 10:39:29 | <johnnyboy[m]> | it was the '?' |
| 10:39:39 | <johnnyboy[m]> | the "[0-5]?" |
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| 10:40:10 | <johnnyboy[m]> | "[0-9]:[0-5][0-9]\\.[0-9][0-9]" matches fine |
| 10:40:39 | <int-e> | ah |
| 10:40:51 | <tomsmeding> | johnnyboy[m]: the docs state "This regex-tdfa package implements, correctly, POSIX extended regular expressions." -- the relevant posix standard is here: https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/basedefs/V1_chap09.html |
| 10:40:56 | <tomsmeding> | in case you're feeling adventurous :p |
| 10:41:17 | <tomsmeding> | but "posix extended regular expressions" is a search term that will also give you simpler explanations |
| 10:41:26 | <johnnyboy[m]> | ah, sorry |
| 10:41:29 | <johnnyboy[m]> | blindness strikes again |
| 10:41:40 | <tomsmeding> | indeed you might need to do \? |
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| 10:42:10 | <tomsmeding> | ... or not, that's only BRE. ERE seems to treat ? specially even without a \ |
| 10:42:43 | <tomsmeding> | so test it with grep -E |
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| 10:43:09 | <int-e> | "0:00.00" =~ "([0-9]+:[0-5][0-9]:[0-5][0-9]|[0-5]?[0-9]:[0-5][0-9]\\.[0-9][0-9])" :: Bool -- returns True for me. |
| 10:43:12 | int-e | is confused. |
| 10:43:37 | <johnnyboy[m]> | grep understands "[0-5]\?[0-9]:[0-5][0-9]\\.[0-9][0-9]" |
| 10:43:39 | <int-e> | (module: Text.Regex.TDFA, package: regex-tdfa-1.3.1.0) |
| 10:43:46 | <johnnyboy[m]> | whoops |
| 10:44:04 | <johnnyboy[m]> | I'm using Revolt, which seems to remove some backslashes |
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| 10:45:53 | <int-e> | Yeah I still think that quoting (number of backslashes) is the most likely thing to go wrong here. |
| 10:46:09 | <johnnyboy[m]> | okay, thanks |
| 10:46:18 | <tomsmeding> | try simpler expressions first that test each of your individual special characters |
| 10:46:18 | <johnnyboy[m]> | I need to check the backslashes then |
| 10:46:50 | <tomsmeding> | 99.9% of the time, when your regex doesn't work and it's not using zero-width lookahead or lookbehind, the problem is backslashes :p |
| 10:47:26 | <johnnyboy[m]> | int-e: Thanks, your expression works for me, too! |
| 10:48:34 | <johnnyboy[m]> | I wonder what it means that the documentation of regex-tdfa says that 'This package does not provide "basic" regular expressions' |
| 10:49:52 | <kuribas> | guest1214: you're not trying to match against an unquoted string? |
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| 10:51:39 | <tomsmeding> | johnnyboy[m]: posix defines "extended regular expressions" (ERE) and "basic regular expressions" (BRE) |
| 10:51:42 | <tomsmeding> | I assume they refer to that |
| 10:51:58 | <tomsmeding> | grep implements BRE, 'grep -E' or egrep implements ERE |
| 10:52:14 | <johnnyboy[m]> | ah |
| 10:52:24 | <johnnyboy[m]> | so does regex-tdfa support ERE, then? |
| 10:52:32 | <tomsmeding> | that's what the docs claim 🤷 |
| 10:53:02 | <johnnyboy[m]> | I see |
| 10:54:13 | <tomsmeding> | they additionally claim that most system libraries do _not_ implement ERE even if they claim they do, because they apparently often have bugs that regex-tdfa doesn't |
| 10:55:59 | <johnnyboy[m]> | weird |
| 10:56:03 | <johnnyboy[m]> | it still doesn't seem to work |
| 10:56:35 | <johnnyboy[m]> | by, the way, I'm using matchOnceText |
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| 10:58:23 | <tomsmeding> | also not for simpler expressions? |
| 10:58:50 | <tomsmeding> | like, "\\.", and "a?", and "a|b", and "a+" :p |
| 10:58:51 | <johnnyboy[m]> | for simpler expressions, it seems to work |
| 10:59:02 | <tomsmeding> | then incrementally grow until you find the part that doesn't work |
| 10:59:09 | <johnnyboy[m]> | I haven't tested extensively, though |
| 10:59:12 | <tomsmeding> | and then shrink on that part again :) |
| 10:59:21 | <johnnyboy[m]> | by simpler expressions, I meant my other expressions |
| 10:59:27 | <johnnyboy[m]> | they seem to work just fine |
| 10:59:57 | <johnnyboy[m]> | incremental approach sounds like the smart thing to do |
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| 11:04:51 | <johnnyboy[m]> | okay, actually it does seem to work now |
| 11:05:02 | <johnnyboy[m]> | so I have something wrong elsewhere in my code |
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| 11:05:07 | <johnnyboy[m]> | thanks for the help! |
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| 11:11:59 | <tomsmeding> | good luck! |
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| 11:26:34 | <johnnyboy[m]> | actually, it does seem to be a regex issue after all |
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| 11:27:21 | <johnnyboy[m]> | it seems that my regexes are haunted |
| 11:27:28 | <johnnyboy[m]> | they fail to match even "(.)+" |
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| 11:28:59 | <johnnyboy[m]> | now I found the error |
| 11:29:23 | <johnnyboy[m]> | I had unescaped parentheses where I wanted to match the characters '(' and ')' |
| 11:29:25 | <johnnyboy[m]> | :D |
| 11:29:29 | <johnnyboy[m]> | such a rookie mistake |
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| 11:36:17 | <johnnyboy[m]> | I learned to always check my backslashes in the future |
| 11:36:34 | <Kronic> | Can be helpful to split it up into a few lines rather than having one monster regex |
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| 11:37:25 | <johnnyboy[m]> | yes |
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| 11:39:08 | <johnnyboy[m]> | it's funny how the line breaks are "\\\\\n" in my latex output |
| 11:39:29 | <johnnyboy[m]> | hm. it looks to me that my client removed two backslashes again |
| 11:39:34 | <johnnyboy[m]> | there should be five of them |
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| 11:45:50 | <arahael> | There _are_ five of them. |
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| 11:46:18 | <arahael> | Or rather, only two of them, and a newline. ;) |
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| 11:55:52 | <tomsmeding> | johnnyboy[m]: I think in your matrix client you see the markdown-parsed version, which has backslashes removed; we on irc see the "fallback" plain-text version that has no markdown parsing, and thus no backslash dropping, applied |
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| 11:56:21 | <johnnyboy[m]> | ok |
| 11:56:53 | <tomsmeding> | (try a code block with backticks ` to also display the characters as-is in your matrix client ;) ) |
| 11:57:10 | <johnnyboy[m]> | `\\\\\n` |
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| 11:57:15 | <johnnyboy[m]> | oh, cool! |
| 11:57:33 | <tomsmeding> | the more you know :) |
| 11:59:40 | <johnnyboy[m]> | LaTeX support would be awesome :D |
| 12:00:16 | <johnnyboy[m]> | it's always so hard to communicate math formulas through electoric messaging |
| 12:00:32 | <johnnyboy[m]> | but that's off-topic, sorry |
| 12:01:45 | <[exa]> | there are katex and similar plugins for all possible chat systems, usually working with the latex math parens like \(\frac{\pi}{2}\) |
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| 12:04:19 | <johnnyboy[m]> | guess I should google katex |
| 12:04:54 | <cnmne[m]> | this might be relevant |
| 12:04:55 | <cnmne[m]> | https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-react-sdk/pull/5244 |
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| 12:10:45 | <johnnyboy[m]> | ok, thanks! |
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| 12:45:02 | <hseg> | Am getting stack overflows from a bit of quickcheck. Recommendations? |
| 12:45:49 | <hseg> | Add HasCallStack constraints to all top-level functions in my codebase? |
| 12:46:18 | <hseg> | also, how can i add callstacks to instance functions? |
| 12:48:22 | <dminuoso> | hseg: Compile with profiling, generage cost centres to all top level functions? |
| 12:49:06 | <dminuoso> | And then do a heap profile? |
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| 12:49:18 | <hseg> | remind me how i do that last bit? |
| 12:50:06 | <dminuoso> | https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/runtime_control.html#rts-options-for-profiling |
| 12:50:43 | <dminuoso> | (Also -p is of interest) |
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| 12:51:01 | <dminuoso> | See also related https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/profiling.html#rts-options-heap-prof |
| 12:51:16 | <hseg> | ty |
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| 12:53:10 | <hseg> | hrm. ok, seems i'll need to package up my test case as an executable to do that |
| 12:53:15 | <hseg> | no problem |
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| 13:00:27 | <hseg> | hrm. for some reason i get an empty profile |
| 13:01:29 | <hseg> | i mean, i have profiling: True and profiling-detail: all-functions in my cabal.project, so cabal run sandbox-algebra -- +RTS -p -RTS should give me a profile, right? |
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| 13:02:26 | <geekosaur> | --RTS or cabal itself will eat the profiling option (and probably do nothing since it wasn't built for profiling) |
| 13:02:41 | <geekosaur> | in place of the -- that is |
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| 13:04:05 | <dminuoso> | hseg: It should, yes. |
| 13:04:40 | <hseg> | ok, -h gives me a heap profile, so at least that's something |
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| 13:07:01 | <hseg> | ok, it's the usual culprit. have too little laziness in my multiplication function, which causes the entire combinatorial structure to be forced |
| 13:07:44 | <hseg> | i suppose profiling makes things heavier in heap, right? |
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| 13:08:08 | <xerox_> | why is there a big difference between IOUArray and STUArray? |
| 13:08:22 | <hseg> | which is why my stack overflow is overshadowed by the testcase eating all the memory |
| 13:08:23 | <xerox_> | the same exact algorithm takes 10 times the time with the first one, I had no idea |
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| 13:09:23 | <merijn> | xerox_: The U in STU is for *unboxed* |
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| 13:09:38 | <merijn> | Oh, wait, the IO one too |
| 13:09:47 | <xerox_> | yeah! |
| 13:10:01 | <merijn> | xerox_: Time to dive into the Core :p |
| 13:10:06 | <xerox_> | oh boy |
| 13:10:09 | <int-e> | xerox_: I don't think there *should* be a difference |
| 13:10:24 | <xerox_> | int-e: I expected the same really |
| 13:10:28 | <int-e> | so it's interesting if you see one |
| 13:10:43 | <xerox_> | I'll share some code let me tidy it up |
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| 13:12:04 | <merijn> | xerox_: Oh, this is compiled and with -O2, yes? |
| 13:12:40 | <xerox_> | yes |
| 13:12:41 | <hseg> | hrm. any ideas on how to improve http://ix.io/2I9Q's behaviour? |
| 13:12:41 | <int-e> | there's the state hack thing, is that specific for the real world token? |
| 13:13:33 | <int-e> | I don't know, compiling with -fno-state-hack may rule out this idea |
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| 13:14:18 | <hseg> | basically am trying to count up all the different ways two [m] can be joined together |
| 13:14:46 | <hseg> | where i care about which element gets matched up with which, but not about order |
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| 13:15:55 | <Kronic> | in megaparsec, what is the correct pattern to use to parse a string up until a particular String? |
| 13:16:00 | <Kronic> | I guess takeWhileP ? |
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| 13:16:50 | <hseg> | (this means i have O(sum_k choose(|n|,k)*choose(|m|,k)) different terms) |
| 13:17:21 | <merijn> | Kronic: manyTill ? |
| 13:17:33 | <merijn> | Kronic: takeWhileP is until a specific character |
| 13:17:51 | <merijn> | Kronic: Note that most relevant combinators are re-exported from parser-combinators |
| 13:17:58 | <Kronic> | ah thank you |
| 13:18:11 | <xerox_> | you know I might have forgotten an 'U' in the IO case, I need to make sure I did use IO*U*Array |
| 13:18:15 | <xerox_> | that would explain it |
| 13:18:20 | <merijn> | xerox_: lol |
| 13:18:36 | <xerox_> | no compassion ): |
| 13:18:59 | <merijn> | so my comment was right, despite being wrong ;) |
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| 13:21:54 | xerox_ | slaps forehead |
| 13:22:03 | <xerox_> | that was exactly it, my bad |
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| 13:29:36 | <hseg> | actually, that simplifies to O(binom(n+m,n`min`m)) |
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| 13:30:39 | <int-e> | to err is human... |
| 13:31:23 | <xerox_> | given that my implementations of play and playIO are identical except for the return type it should be possible to write a more general type and the function just once right? https://pastebin.com/raw/vcdkyHSG |
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| 13:32:26 | <xerox_> | something like MagicalClass m, MagicalArray a => [Int] -> m (a Int Int) |
| 13:33:11 | <merijn> | xerox_: Or...just define a datatype, rather than a class ;) |
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| 13:33:35 | <Kronic> | Does megaparsec have an equivalent of anyChar ? |
| 13:33:36 | <xerox_> | that's not a bad idea, so I'd have the 'arr' inside, and the two versions |
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| 13:35:12 | <merijn> | I do that to compare "channel types", see: https://github.com/merijn/broadcast-chan/blob/master/broadcast-chan/benchmarks/Channels.hs#L46-L60 |
| 13:35:36 | <xerox_> | I guess Monad m => should be enough tho |
| 13:35:51 | <xerox_> | maybe Monad m and MArray a Int Int works |
| 13:36:11 | <merijn> | xerox_: You can capture the Array type existentially |
| 13:36:52 | <int-e> | :t Control.Monad.ST.stToIO |
| 13:36:54 | <lambdabot> | ST RealWorld a -> IO a |
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| 13:37:22 | <int-e> | which gets you most of the way, hmm |
| 13:37:52 | <int-e> | :t GHC.IOArray.IOArray |
| 13:37:53 | <lambdabot> | GHC.Arr.STArray RealWorld i e -> GHC.IOArray.IOArray i e |
| 13:38:23 | <int-e> | I guess this part isn't exposed through official means. |
| 13:38:26 | <xerox_> | neat |
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| 13:41:26 | <int-e> | :t Control.Monad.ST.Unsafe.unsafeIOToST -- this one exists as well, and is as powerful as unsafePerformIO |
| 13:41:27 | <lambdabot> | IO a -> ST s a |
| 13:42:05 | <xerox_> | makes sense, since you can runSt |
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| 13:47:08 | <Kronic> | ah it is anySingle |
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| 13:50:01 | <Kronic> | Weird tbh, is there any reason for this pattern of renaming things? if anySingle has the same functionality as anyChar why not just have anySingle available as the default then have anyChar as an alias in the Char package? That's what I was expecting but I guess there is a good reason for it... |
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| 13:52:01 | <geekosaur> | because there are multiple types for which a Stream is composed of Char-s, but also multiple where it isn't? |
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| 13:52:41 | <geekosaur> | multiple Stream types |
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| 14:18:23 | <Kronic> | I understand, I just thought the name should have been persisted as an alias. I'm new to megaparsec so finding out what anyChar was, where I can find it and so on is a bit of a pain if you use an out of date tutorial |
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| 14:37:54 | <sondr3> | I've written a simple Scheme interpreter over the last few weeks and occasionally GADTs have come up and after reading myself up on them I'm curious of the benefits of using them over regular ADTs when you might want to compile the language? From what I've read GADTs are useful to leverage Haskells type system for usage in e.g. interpreters |
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| 14:39:15 | <sondr3> | I've been wanting to try to "compile" it to WebAssembly for example |
| 14:43:26 | <lortabac> | sondr3: a typical example is a GADT that represents the terms of a simply-typed lambda calculus in such a way that only well-typed terms can be constructed |
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| 14:44:10 | <merijn> | Of course that only works if you have dependent types or write your AST directly using GADTs |
| 14:44:18 | <merijn> | Because *parsing* GADTs is a PITA :p |
| 14:44:45 | <lortabac> | yes, you need singletons, which is not the most ergonomic thing in the world :) |
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| 14:47:23 | <lortabac> | merijn: you can also parse the language and write the GADT source code to a file :P |
| 14:47:34 | <merijn> | Also, note that the ability to represent ill-typed ASTs can be a feature too :) |
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| 14:48:01 | <lortabac> | sondr3: in the case of Scheme, I don't think this technique makes much sense |
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| 14:49:41 | <sondr3> | Yeah, I'll just stick with what I have, thanks :) |
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| 14:59:53 | <__monty__> | Is there a way to have a vector grow upon insert if the index would go out of bounds? |
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| 15:02:16 | <dolio> | There might be a package that implements that on top of vector, but I don't know of one, and it isn't how the popular vector packages work. |
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| 15:10:17 | <ephemient> | I did build something like that on top of Array (not Vector) a while back. not too hard, probably easier for Vector where you can only grow in one direction |
| 15:11:19 | <dolio> | Maybe just primitive is a better base, because you don't need quite a lot of stuff in vector. |
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| 15:52:59 | <fuzzypixelz> | hello. I was told that in Haskell function application is prioritized, for this reason I don't know why `square addOne 0 + 2` fails and I have to do `square (addOne 0) + 2`. |
| 15:53:31 | <fuzzypixelz> | oops, I see it, whitin a split second of sending that haha |
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| 15:54:18 | <fuzzypixelz> | I think the compiler wouldn't know if it should pass addOne as an argument or pass it the value 0 |
| 15:54:24 | <fuzzypixelz> | anyway, silly me |
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| 15:55:57 | <lortabac> | fuzzypixelz: 'square addOne 0' means "apply the function 'square' to the arguments 'addOne' and '0'" |
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| 15:58:17 | <slack1256> | On `cabal v2-repl` can I pass values to be replaces CPP phase? if so, how? |
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| 15:58:57 | <slack1256> | *on the CPP |
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| 16:02:52 | <fuzzypixelz> | Are Non-exhaustive function patterns run-time exceptions? |
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| 16:04:56 | <gehmehgeh> | fuzzypixelz: why don't you try yourself? ;) |
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| 16:09:08 | <fuzzypixelz> | gehmehgeh: yes I tried and couldn't believe it, something so silly as forgeting a catch-all condition could crash my program! haha |
| 16:11:10 | <merijn> | fuzzypixelz: Enable -Wall ;) |
| 16:11:19 | <merijn> | Then the compiler will yell at you :p |
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| 16:11:55 | <fuzzypixelz> | oh that's nice |
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| 16:13:30 | <merijn> | fuzzypixelz: I recommend defaulting to -Wall on and selectively disabling warnings if/when you decide they aren't useful |
| 16:13:34 | <fuzzypixelz> | I sincerely apologize to the Glorious Haskell Compiler for being so blasphemous |
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| 16:15:56 | <fuzzypixelz> | merijn: I'll keep that in mind |
| 16:17:31 | <fuzzypixelz> | Since IO is so complicated and my reading speed can't carry me to the respective chapter yet, I shall allow myself to use the `error` function to get the output a the end of my programs, for now. |
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| 16:25:46 | <__monty__> | Don't be afraid of IO. |
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| 16:27:17 | <justsomeguy> | Which book are you reading, fuzzypixelz? |
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| 16:29:33 | <fuzzypixelz> | justsomeguy: learn you a haskell for good |
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| 16:32:28 | <tomsmeding> | fuzzypixelz: if you want some quick-and-dirty way to add some input and output to your program, you can use 'interact': https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.14.0.0/docs/Prelude.html#v:interact |
| 16:32:45 | <tomsmeding> | it's mostly only useful if you first read a bunch, then write a bunch, and then are done |
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| 16:33:03 | <sm[m]> | @where HTAC is another good one; IO doesn't have to be too complicated |
| 16:33:03 | <lambdabot> | "Haskell Tutorial and Cookbook" by Mark Watson in 2017-09-04 at <https://leanpub.com/haskell-cookbook> |
| 16:33:29 | <tomsmeding> | but it allows you to write 'main :: IO () ; main = interact myPureFunction', where myPureFunction has type 'String -> String' and does not involve any IO at all |
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| 16:47:46 | <merijn> | fuzzypixelz: Note that LYAH is widely considered "not great" in terms of education |
| 16:49:47 | <justsomeguy> | Why is that, merijn? |
| 16:50:32 | <merijn> | justsomeguy: The order in which it introduces things is a bit random, it doesn't explain everything in sufficient details, has no exercises, and generally leaves people unprepared to actually write code |
| 16:51:16 | <justsomeguy> | Hmm... I've only skimmed through it. In contrast to HPFP, I find the brevity attractive, though. |
| 16:51:26 | <merijn> | LYAH has a good representation because when it came out it was one of the only free and accessible texts on Haskell, but history has mostly obsoleted it as teaching tool |
| 16:51:32 | notzmv` | is now known as notzmv |
| 16:51:38 | <merijn> | justsomeguy: HPFP is on the other side of brevity, yes :p |
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| 16:51:58 | <justsomeguy> | Having tons of examples seems to be essential, I think. |
| 16:52:30 | justsomeguy | has only partly read through a few books on haskell, but he thinks he likes Get Programming With Haskell by Will Kurt the most. |
| 16:52:31 | <merijn> | But there are other books which are widely regarded better than LYAH, such a Richard Bird's "Thinking Functionally With Haskell" or Graham Hutton's "Programming in Haskell" |
| 16:53:50 | <justsomeguy> | I'm going to have to read Huttons book sometime, it looks really well articulated. |
| 16:54:13 | justsomeguy | appreciates good editing and narrative structure, a lot. |
| 16:54:33 | <sm[m]> | justsomeguy++ |
| 16:54:47 | <merijn> | justsomeguy: LYAH is great as an appetizer of "look at these neat things!", but not for actually *understanding* those neat things :p |
| 16:54:56 | <sm[m]> | I think HTAC has that too. Here's HTAC's IO intro: https://leanpub.com/haskell-cookbook/read#leanpub-auto-hello-io--monad |
| 16:55:33 | <sm[m]> | (in which I just learned why they are called Monads) |
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| 17:00:12 | <justsomeguy> | “Every IO () action returns exactly one value. Think of the word “mono” (or “one”) when you think of Monads because they always return one value.” |
| 17:00:16 | <justsomeguy> | Neat :^) |
| 17:01:20 | <quantumvatican> | Hello, I would like help with advent of code #15. My program crashes (killed by the shell) on part 2 and don't understand why. I am iterating a function f : Foo -> Foo where Foo contains a strict IntMap from numbers to their last position (so not storing the whole list). Foo also contains the current turn and my main call is "until (current turn is the target) f input". |
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| 17:01:32 | <quantumvatican> | Am I missing something? |
| 17:01:47 | <dolio> | That explanation sounds wrong. |
| 17:01:54 | <justsomeguy> | Can you link to your source code? |
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| 17:01:55 | <koz_> | quantumvatican: Could you please pastebin your code? |
| 17:01:58 | <koz_> | Ninjas... |
| 17:02:27 | <quantumvatican> | Could you tell me what you think is wrong? |
| 17:02:27 | <dolio> | The 'mon' in monad coms from monoid, and has nothing to do with 'returning one value'. |
| 17:03:50 | <boxscape> | where does the -ad come from? |
| 17:04:37 | <geekosaur> | @quote triad |
| 17:04:37 | <lambdabot> | geekosaur says: so fwiw it looks like [Mac Lane] introduced it in _Categories for the Working Mathematician_, and his terminology note doesn't explain why he picked "monad", but perhaps can be |
| 17:04:38 | <lambdabot> | understood to imply a sort of cross between "monoid" and "triad". (p.138 at http://www.maths.ed.ac.uk/~aar/papers/maclanecat.pdf) |
| 17:04:40 | <dolio> | Triad. |
| 17:04:53 | <boxscape> | hm, I see |
| 17:05:15 | <boxscape> | I suppose the word Monad also already existed in other fields when he started using it |
| 17:05:16 | <boxscape> | |
| 17:05:20 | <dolio> | One of the names before monad was "(Kleisli) triple". |
| 17:05:24 | <quantumvatican> | @koz_ here is my code, thank you for your help https://framabin.org/p/?28fc06ad9cd05caf#n2HvY17DG4mRGbd4Zio9UoT169hX5P2wCoXuauBz9KY= |
| 17:05:24 | <lambdabot> | Unknown command, try @list |
| 17:05:44 | <geekosaur> | there's an overview of the existing terminology on the referenced page, iirc |
| 17:05:57 | <dolio> | Yeah, it might also be a pun, since apparently some category folks liked that. |
| 17:06:32 | <dolio> | Kind of a nonsense pun, since it has nothing to do with Leibniz's monads. |
| 17:09:17 | <dolio> | I've heard that one of the big names in categoy theory liked to repurpose philosophy terms into math terms, I guess regardless of whether there's even a tenuous connection between them. :) |
| 17:09:26 | <koz_> | quantumvatican: What exactly is the message that you get when your program crashes? |
| 17:09:44 | <geekosaur> | proably "Killed" given what they said earlier |
| 17:09:53 | <geekosaur> | i.e. the OOM catcher got it |
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| 17:10:44 | <boxscape> | quantumvatican can you try making your datatype strict, i.e. adding ! in front of (IntMap Position), Int, and Turn? |
| 17:11:15 | <koz_> | Also, did you import the strict IntMap? |
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| 17:16:52 | <dminuoso> | Mmm, so we can do bang annotations in the definition of a function, but why not at the call site? |
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| 17:17:14 | <boxscape> | instead of seq? |
| 17:17:20 | <dminuoso> | Well, in terms of seq. |
| 17:17:31 | <boxscape> | right |
| 17:17:55 | <dminuoso> | seq is ergonomically a wart, BangPatterns feel much more natural :) |
| 17:18:07 | <geekosaur> | there's $! |
| 17:18:32 | <glguy> | dminuoso: I think it just feels different |
| 17:19:13 | <dminuoso> | geekosaur: Ohh nice, yeah I guess we dont need syntax if we can just supply it via a haskell world operator. |
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| 17:21:00 | <mjrosenb> | I did today's AoC problem in haskell and python, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that the solution in python is 3x the speed of the haskell one. |
| 17:21:13 | <glguy> | what speeds did you get? |
| 17:21:31 | <boxscape> | python is interpreted and haskell is compiled, so some surprise is warranted |
| 17:21:35 | <mjrosenb> | ~18 seconds in python, ~45 seconds in haskell |
| 17:21:47 | <glguy> | mjrosenb: the haskell solution should run in under a second |
| 17:21:55 | <mjrosenb> | the problem is more or less 30,000,000 hash lookups and insertions. |
| 17:22:09 | <dolio> | Seems like whether you should be surprised depends on how good you are at writing things in each language. :) |
| 17:22:16 | <boxscape> | I have 40 seconds in haskell and 650ms in C, but it's because I used a mutable array in C and an immutable IntMap in haskell |
| 17:22:37 | <glguy> | the C time is reflective of a Haskell solution using a mutable array |
| 17:22:44 | <boxscape> | makes sense |
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| 17:23:28 | <mjrosenb> | I'm /way/ more comfortable with haskell than python, but I haven't spent that much time attempting to optimize beyond overall complexity. |
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| 17:26:44 | <Kronic> | Perhaps post both solutions |
| 17:27:27 | <mjrosenb> | one min... |
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| 17:28:07 | <mjrosenb> | haskell: https://gist.github.com/mjrosenb/11552f705f504ed772187b90462c0ebd |
| 17:29:33 | <mjrosenb> | python: https://gist.github.com/mjrosenb/f8dc6d29162dca25e59d2a0226cc7767 |
| 17:32:20 | <mjrosenb> | the haskell one is the one that I actually used, ergo, it takes the problem input from stdin, the python one was just me seeing if python was faster due to constant time lookups, and therefore has the input hardcoded. |
| 17:33:13 | <Kronic> | I'll be the first to say that I am an expert in neither language, I'm pretty new to Haskell, but to me it looks like they are two completely different approaches |
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| 17:34:49 | <geekosaur> | well, yes, it's not uncommon that you want a different approach in Haskell |
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| 17:35:29 | <Kronic> | Sure, but these aren't even trying to be roughly equivalent so how could they be comparable? |
| 17:35:49 | <mjrosenb> | I think they're pretty similar, have a map from each value to the last index that that value was seen at. |
| 17:36:24 | <mjrosenb> | at each step, check what the index that the previous number was last seen at |
| 17:36:37 | <mjrosenb> | generate a new number, and insert the previous one into the map. |
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| 17:37:54 | <mjrosenb> | in the haskell version, I added some extra functions and wrapped the state into a datatype, but those should be superficial differences. |
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| 17:42:14 | <hseg> | hrmph. replacing quickCheck with verboseCheck forced my thunks and solved my space leak |
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| 17:43:21 | <hseg> | should replace my maps with strict maps instead. i think it might solve some of my memory problems |
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| 17:45:13 | <hseg> | indeed, should use containers' advice and replace with hashmaps considering i don't really need the ordering |
| 17:45:25 | <dminuoso> | hseg: did the profiling help? |
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| 17:46:25 | <hseg> | profiling found the main source of errors, which was the usual suspect. changed algorithms, no help. trying to get more data, used verboseCheck. it forced thunks and solved the memory leak |
| 17:46:43 | <hseg> | so i'm converting to strict maps to see if that doesn't solve it |
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| 17:52:12 | <dsal> | mjrosenb: this is 900 ms on my macbook: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/RtaAP8sh/st.hs |
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| 17:54:52 | <hseg> | hrmph. monoidal-containers has several annoying inconsistencies |
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| 17:55:42 | <hseg> | eg hashmap expects you to cast using newtype for some functions, map.strict.mapkeys is accumulating vs map.mapkeys being nonaccumulating, etc etc |
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| 17:57:51 | <z0> | what's the canonical way to filter [(a,b)] on b ? |
| 17:58:11 | <koz_> | z0: filter (predicate . snd) ? |
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| 17:58:41 | <mjrosenb> | dsal: what module do I need to get for MV and runST? |
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| 17:58:56 | <koz_> | mjrosenb: MV is probably Data.Vector.Mutable. |
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| 17:59:03 | <koz_> | runST is Control.Monad.ST |
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| 17:59:18 | <z0> | i do it so often, im writing a helper function. just checking, thanks |
| 18:00:23 | <mjrosenb> | danke. |
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| 18:01:06 | <dsal> | mjrosenb: I'm using unboxed vectors. |
| 18:01:10 | <dsal> | unboxed mutable. |
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| 18:02:37 | <mjrosenb> | Could not find module ‘Data.Vector.Mutable’ |
| 18:02:46 | <mjrosenb> | I'll figure that out later. |
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| 18:03:45 | <dsal> | @where Data.Vector.Mutable |
| 18:03:45 | <lambdabot> | I know nothing about data.vector.mutable. |
| 18:04:08 | <dsal> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/vector/docs/Data-Vector-Unboxed-Mutable.html |
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| 18:04:17 | <xerox_> | z0: it's also good to know about list comprehensions [ .. | (_,b) <- xs, predicate b ] sometimes it reads well and lets you do other stuff at the same time |
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| 18:04:31 | <dmj`> | :t \x -> scanl (foldl x) |
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| 18:04:33 | <lambdabot> | Foldable t => (b -> a -> b) -> b -> [t a] -> [b] |
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| 18:12:29 | <z0> | oh man thats beatiful |
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| 18:14:48 | <boxscape> | > (\x -> scanl (foldl x)) (-) 0 [[1,2],[2,3]] |
| 18:14:50 | <lambdabot> | [0,-3,-8] |
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| 18:17:22 | <z0> | > (scanl . foldl) (-) 0 [[1,2],[2,3]] |
| 18:17:25 | <lambdabot> | [0,-3,-8] |
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| 18:24:09 | <hseg> | The Map type is shared between the lazy and strict modules, meaning that the same Map value can be passed to functions in both modules. This means that the Functor, Traversable and Data instances are the same as for the Data.Map.Lazy module, so if they are used the resulting maps may contain suspended values (thunks). |
| 18:24:12 | <hseg> | WTF? |
| 18:24:39 | <koz_> | hseg: Map (and HashMap) have strict _functions_, not strict _data_ as such. |
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| 18:26:11 | <hseg> | hrm. any reason for preferring the former over the latter? |
| 18:26:12 | <merijn> | hseg: What's so weird about that? |
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| 18:26:57 | <hseg> | i understood strict maps were strict over their values and spines, whereas lazy maps were only lazy in spines |
| 18:27:10 | <merijn> | hseg: Lazy is good if the values are mutually recursive (i.e. computing them does lookups in the same Map, such as dynamic programming style tricks) or when computing the value is slow and you don't need all of them |
| 18:27:14 | <merijn> | hseg: eh, no |
| 18:27:20 | <merijn> | hseg: Both strict and lazy map have a strict spine |
| 18:27:32 | <merijn> | A lazy spine would have *terrible* performance |
| 18:27:42 | <hseg> | oops, mistyped. meant lazy is only strict in spine |
| 18:27:47 | <hseg> | but lazy in values |
| 18:27:50 | <merijn> | hseg: Right |
| 18:28:07 | <merijn> | hseg: But that doesn't contradict the docs you quoted |
| 18:28:25 | <merijn> | hseg: The docs are just saying that the strictness is enforced by the functions, not by the datatype |
| 18:28:59 | <hseg> | sure... but class instances cannot enforce strictness because of this |
| 18:29:24 | <merijn> | "class instances" ? |
| 18:29:38 | <hseg> | Functor, Traversable, Data |
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| 18:30:09 | <hseg> | any reason for this choice over cloning the datatype mod strictness annotations? |
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| 18:30:18 | <koz_> | hseg: Are you concerned that, say, fmap, will stuff a should-be-strict map full of lazy values? |
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| 18:30:26 | <hseg> | yup |
| 18:30:29 | <merijn> | hseg: The fact that you don't have to repeatedly do "toStrict" when interacting with different APIs? :p |
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| 18:31:28 | <hseg> | arguably, you should. we don't see Int and Int# as similar enough to be convertible, after all |
| 18:31:38 | <hseg> | why is this any different? |
| 18:32:01 | <hseg> | (otoh, polymorphism in both of these *would* be nice) |
| 18:32:15 | <hseg> | (for the latter, this exists as levity polymorphism) |
| 18:33:14 | <dsal> | hseg: I made great use of that lazy/strict map thing a few days ago. |
| 18:33:27 | <koz_> | I'm actually curious about the question hseg raises too. |
| 18:33:41 | <koz_> | _Can_ fmap potentially stuff a should-be-strict map full of lazy values? |
| 18:33:56 | <merijn> | Define "should be strict" :p |
| 18:34:09 | <koz_> | merijn: One made entirely using functions from Data.Map.Strict. |
| 18:34:11 | <geekosaur> | there's only one Map type, it;s the operations that are strict/lazy |
| 18:34:12 | <merijn> | See, that's the confusion |
| 18:34:13 | <hseg> | sniped |
| 18:34:17 | <merijn> | There is no strict Map |
| 18:34:20 | <merijn> | There is just Map |
| 18:34:32 | <merijn> | And you can build Maps strictly or lazily |
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| 18:34:57 | <koz_> | merijn: So suppose I used only strict operations to make a Map. Then I call fmap on it. Will that invalidate my efforts in the use of strict operations? |
| 18:35:05 | <koz_> | (in the sense that the result won't be strict in its values) |
| 18:35:10 | <merijn> | koz_: Define "invalidate" |
| 18:35:25 | <dsal> | One of my day 7 solutions. Gets a map made from Data.Map.Strict, fmaps it with lazy ! so I can ask for stuff before I finish populating it: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/8KJNYCTs/day7.hs |
| 18:35:27 | <hseg> | that the map will contain non-whnf values |
| 18:35:32 | <koz_> | merijn: In the sense that after the fmap, the result won't be strict in its values. |
| 18:35:47 | <koz_> | Or what hseg said. |
| 18:35:50 | <dsal> | koz_: I think the above is the exact use case you're describing. |
| 18:35:56 | <merijn> | Yes |
| 18:36:06 | <koz_> | Interesting. TIL, thank you! |
| 18:36:15 | <dsal> | Map == Data.Map.Strict and LMap = Data.Map |
| 18:37:01 | <hseg> | dsal: sure, but i don't believe that is necessarily impossible with a split Map situation as i'm advocating |
| 18:37:53 | <merijn> | koz_, hseg: Anyway, that's all trivially solved anyway |
| 18:38:15 | <hseg> | newtype with specially-defined forcing instances? |
| 18:38:16 | <merijn> | @hoogle <$!> |
| 18:38:16 | <lambdabot> | Control.Monad (<$!>) :: Monad m => (a -> b) -> m a -> m b |
| 18:38:17 | <lambdabot> | Control.Monad.Compat (<$!>) :: Monad m => (a -> b) -> m a -> m b |
| 18:38:17 | <lambdabot> | Protolude.Monad (<$!>) :: Monad m => (a -> b) -> m a -> m b |
| 18:38:27 | <merijn> | hseg: Eh, just use <$!> instead of <$> :p |
| 18:38:50 | <boxscape> | huh it needs a Monad instance instead of functor? |
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| 18:39:06 | <koz_> | merijn: Or I'll just keep doing what I've been, which is using Map-specific functions. |
| 18:39:07 | <hseg> | sure, but that requires me to remember to take this into consideration, instead of being caught by the compiler |
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| 18:39:34 | <koz_> | But it's definitely good to know. |
| 18:39:34 | <merijn> | boxscape: No other way to enforce the sequencing of seq |
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| 18:39:55 | <merijn> | boxscape: Although I guess that doesn't work on Map then :p |
| 18:40:02 | <boxscape> | hm yeah |
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| 18:41:01 | <hseg> | yup... |
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| 18:42:43 | <dmj`> | z0: I used that function today at work, `\f -> scanl' (foldl' f))` |
| 18:43:04 | <dmj`> | z0: almost fell out of my chair when it just worked |
| 18:43:39 | <dmj`> | :t scanl' . foldl' |
| 18:43:41 | <lambdabot> | Foldable t => (b -> a -> b) -> b -> [t a] -> [b] |
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| 18:51:47 | <z0> | is there a better way of writing [ let y = read x in (y,f y) | x <- ... ] ? |
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| 18:53:09 | <monochrom> | [ (y, f y) | x <- ... , let y = read x ] |
| 18:53:18 | <z0> | i mean assuming i can't do `x <- read <$> xs` |
| 18:53:23 | <kuribas> | or better don't use read |
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| 18:53:43 | <z0> | monochrom: thanks! i knew this looked strange |
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| 18:53:45 | <nf> | z0: you can do that |
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| 18:53:51 | <kuribas> | :t (***) |
| 18:53:52 | <lambdabot> | Arrow a => a b c -> a b' c' -> a (b, b') (c, c') |
| 18:54:04 | <z0> | kuribas: why not? |
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| 18:54:11 | <kuribas> | z0: because it's partial |
| 18:54:17 | <ephemient> | :t (&&&) |
| 18:54:19 | <lambdabot> | Arrow a => a b c -> a b c' -> a b (c, c') |
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| 18:54:34 | <SrPx> | https://github.com/moonad/Formality/blob/master/blog/0-goodbye-javascript.md |
| 18:54:36 | <SrPx> | ( : |
| 18:54:42 | <monochrom> | I'm pretty sure it's just anotheer AoC day so input validation goes out of window. |
| 18:54:53 | <kuribas> | :t (id &&&) |
| 18:54:55 | <lambdabot> | (b -> c') -> b -> (b, c') |
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| 18:55:24 | <ephemient> | > [id &&& reverse $ show y | y <- [49..51]] |
| 18:55:26 | <lambdabot> | [("49","94"),("50","05"),("51","15")] |
| 18:55:45 | <z0> | of course it's aoc :) |
| 18:56:18 | <kuribas> | :t \f xs -> ((id &&& f) . read) <$> xs |
| 18:56:20 | <lambdabot> | (Functor f, Read b) => (b -> c') -> f String -> f (b, c') |
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| 19:06:59 | <jle`> | z0: y <- mapMaybe readMaybe ... |
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| 19:07:08 | <jle`> | z0: or traverse readMaybe |
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| 19:13:39 | <tomsmeding> | SrPx: 🎉 |
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| 19:32:57 | <boxscape> | z0 [ (y, f y) | x <- ... , let y = read x ] should also be the same as [ (y, f y) | (read -> y) <- ... ] with ViewPatterns |
| 19:33:15 | <boxscape> | I believe |
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| 19:38:50 | <solonarv> | yup |
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| 19:43:45 | <SrPx> | tomsmeding: 🎉 |
| 19:44:05 | <SrPx> | also there is a (IMO) really good introduction to theorem proving, made for haskellers, in our repo now: |
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| 19:44:23 | <SrPx> | https://github.com/moonad/Formality/blob/master/THEOREMS.md |
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| 19:44:54 | <SrPx> | please check it and let me know if it is as pedagogical as I expect it to be (: |
| 19:45:32 | <tomsmeding> | SrPx: after I finish my thesis :p |
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| 19:45:47 | <SrPx> | just for the channel (: |
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| 19:56:38 | <koz_> | tomsmeding: Are you here to spit a thesis against both of our asses? :P |
| 19:56:45 | <koz_> | (sorry for obscure reference) |
| 19:57:00 | tomsmeding | doesn't get the reference unfortunately |
| 19:57:06 | <tomsmeding> | but no it's completely unrelated :p |
| 19:58:43 | <koz_> | It's OK, it's rather obscure. |
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| 20:01:58 | tomsmeding | found the reference, and indeed had no chance of knowing that one |
| 20:02:13 | <koz_> | It's OK, I have a fondness for obscurica in my humour. |
| 20:02:23 | <tomsmeding> | :D |
| 20:02:23 | <koz_> | As a result, I tend to make jokes about 3 people will get. |
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| 20:51:06 | <z0> | so those 3 people walk into a bar... |
| 20:51:27 | <z0> | sorry |
| 20:51:40 | <koz_> | z0: I dunno whether to shoot myself or go bowling at that joke. :P |
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| 20:52:47 | <z0> | my jokes are exclusively for the common folk |
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| 21:10:23 | <ezzieyguywuf> | yikes, ghc-lib-parser-ex cabal file has my eyes spinning |
| 21:10:28 | <ezzieyguywuf> | all the conditional flags etc. |
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| 21:15:17 | <sirslapuson> | exit |
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| 21:38:24 | <ezzieyguywuf> | what does this mean in a cabal file? if !flag(ghc-lib) && impl(ghc >= 8.10.0) && impl(ghc < 8.11.0). Specifically, if I specify `--flags=-ghc-lib` and my ghc is v8.8.4 |
| 21:38:33 | <ezzieyguywuf> | does that mean the next block does not get read? |
| 21:39:08 | <c_wraith> | that is what it means |
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| 21:41:51 | <ezzieyguywuf> | ok thank you |
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| 21:52:19 | <merijn> | What's the inverse of commutative? non-commutative? |
| 21:52:51 | <koz_> | merijn: Yeah, I guess? |
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| 22:00:05 | <monochrom> | Yes non-commutative. |
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| 22:00:40 | <monochrom> | Unless you also want x*y = - (y*x) which has a name too. |
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| 22:05:56 | <iqubic> | Is there a structure like a group where "x*y = invert (y*x)"? |
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| 22:07:42 | <solonarv> | iqubic: that's a commutative group where every element is self-inverse; those do have a name, but I forget what it is |
| 22:08:02 | <solonarv> | proof: invert x = invert (1*x) = x*1 = x |
| 22:08:21 | <solonarv> | (so every element is its own inverse) |
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| 22:08:39 | <solonarv> | and: x*y = invert (y*x) = y*x -- so it's commutative |
| 22:08:45 | <iqubic> | Right. I see. |
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| 22:09:03 | <iqubic> | It's like an abelian group, except that every element is a self inverse. |
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| 22:37:23 | <c_wraith> | is there a way to pass rts arguments to the program being run by cabal run? |
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| 22:38:22 | <solonarv> | c_wraith: cabal run my-program -- +RTS --some --rts=args -RTS --more arguments |
| 22:38:24 | <dolio> | c_wraith: Did you try --? |
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| 22:38:40 | <c_wraith> | yes, it told me there's no program named -- |
| 22:39:04 | <monochrom> | I fear that the -- is to be as in "run -- my-program" |
| 22:39:16 | <monochrom> | even "run -- my-package:my-program" |
| 22:39:30 | <dolio> | Was it just `cabal run -- ...`? You might need to explicitly give the executable name. |
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| 22:39:44 | <dolio> | Even though you probably shouldn't need to. |
| 22:39:55 | <c_wraith> | ugh. there's only one executable. fix your argument parsing, cabal |
| 22:40:03 | <monochrom> | IKR? |
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| 22:56:28 | <ezzieyguywuf> | do ghc-boot and ghc-boot-th versions have to match? and does ghc-lib-parser-ex depend on a particular version of these? |
| 22:57:00 | <ezzieyguywuf> | reading through the cabal file of ghc-lib-parser-ex it doesn't specify a particular version, but I know for sure that ghc-boot-8.8 and ghc-boot-th-8.10 will cause ghc-lib-parser-ex to fail |
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| 23:03:14 | <justsomeguy> | Can you do something like “stack exec -- bash” with cabal? That would at least simplify providing arguments to your executable. |
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| 23:04:09 | justsomeguy | has only learned stack so far, though he intends to learn cabal and nix soon. |
| 23:04:17 | <sclv> | cabal also has exec |
| 23:04:32 | <sclv> | but its less important because your ghc isnt hidden |
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| 23:11:26 | <solonarv> | one thing I've used it for is crude timing: cabal exec -- time myprogram <further args> |
| 23:11:57 | <solonarv> | that way I'm only measuring the time taken by my program and not also cabal run's extra overhead |
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| 23:14:37 | <solonarv> | cabal does not hide your GHC but it does hide your executable(s) |
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| 23:58:18 | <uraniumz> | clear |
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All times are in UTC on 2020-12-15.