Logs on 2021-01-17 (freenode/#haskell)
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| 00:08:53 | <threestrikes> | what's the prefered library to manipulate directories |
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| 00:16:28 | <threestrikes> | \help |
| 00:16:31 | <threestrikes> | lol |
| 00:16:33 | <threestrikes> | sorry |
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| 00:17:48 | <threestrikes> | :1 |
| 00:18:06 | <threestrikes> | / |
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| 00:32:08 | <monochrom> | package name "directory", module name System.Directory. Comes with GHC. |
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| 00:48:35 | <vst> | Not necessarily "preferred" but if you are using `path` library, you may wish to check `path-io` library: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/path-io |
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| 01:03:07 | <DigitalKiwi> | Consult Haddocks for usage, which should be trivial. <-- well now i know it's hard :( |
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| 01:32:32 | <minimario> | is there any way to unregister a package in my .cabal directory with "ghc-pkg unregister"? when i ghc-pkg list it, it's not showing up |
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| 01:41:25 | <sm[m]> | minimario: try cabal exec -- ghc-pkg list, etc |
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| 01:42:18 | <minimario> | sm[m] do i need a .cabal file for that |
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| 01:43:31 | <sm[m]> | uh yes, if you're not in a cabal project you don't need that |
| 01:43:57 | <minimario> | i cabal installed something and i'm trying to remove it :P |
| 01:44:14 | <minimario> | and i have no idea how to properly do this |
| 01:44:48 | <minimario> | apparantly i'm supposed to use ghc-pkg unregister, but ghc-pkg can't find my package |
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| 01:47:18 | <dolio> | If ghc-pkg can't find it, then there's nothing to unregister, presumably. |
| 01:47:31 | <sm[m]> | sorry.. cabal has a few different modes and places it keeps packages, depending on version and flags |
| 01:48:10 | <sm[m]> | oh yeah, and packages containing only executables are never listed |
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| 01:48:43 | <minimario> | i see the package in my .cabal though |
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| 01:50:13 | <minimario> | if i just remove it from my .cabal/bin would that work |
| 01:50:16 | <minimario> | as in rm -rf it |
| 01:50:40 | <dolio> | `ghc-pkg unregister` would just remove it from a database keeping track of where that package is. It wouldn't remove the files that got installed from your disk. |
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| 01:51:05 | <dolio> | (And other information besides just where it is.) |
| 01:51:39 | <dolio> | The reason to unregister it before deleting the files is so that GHC doesn't think it still has access to that package. |
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| 01:55:08 | <sm[m]> | To remove executables, yes you can rm those from ~/.cabal/bin |
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| 04:47:45 | <threestrikes> | in the haskell book in the lamda section. How would I say |
| 04:47:51 | <threestrikes> | \x.x? |
| 04:48:01 | <threestrikes> | is it lamda x dot x? |
| 04:48:04 | <glguy> | in Haskell? \x -> x |
| 04:48:12 | <glguy> | Or are you asking how to pronounce it? |
| 04:48:17 | <threestrikes> | Yes :) |
| 04:48:26 | <threestrikes> | How to pronounce it. |
| 04:51:35 | <glguy> | I don't know if there's a right answer, but what you write is how I would say it |
| 04:53:24 | <threestrikes> | Ok |
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| 05:15:02 | <threestrikes> | was just watching a lecture and it was pronounced lamda x returning x |
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| 05:17:23 | <ephemient> | who writes \x.x? λx.x or \x->x I would understand... |
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| 05:47:41 | <jle`> | it's the typical math notation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda_calculus |
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| 06:07:11 | <jle`> | ah yeah, the backslash is def odd. but i guess it's understood as the "ascii" version of lambda |
| 06:07:47 | <jle`> | like how people sometimes right us for microsecond (μs) |
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| 06:26:03 | <arahael> | jle`: I think the question was \ *with* the period there. |
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| 06:39:01 | <ais> | I'm trying to understand what are nested `do` statements doing here: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/qrgbJZzwS5/ . This does not work if i remove the second do statements, but i only ever used nested do's in if else statements, so i don't understand what is it doing here. |
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| 06:48:06 | <siraben> | Any idea why this code: https://godbolt.org/z/7a8396 generates 80 more instructions when typeclasses are used? |
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| 06:50:51 | <jle`> | ais: doesn't work as in, doesn't compile? |
| 06:51:13 | <ais> | it does not parse the arithmetic operation |
| 06:51:33 | <ais> | "2 + 2" returns empty string, but with the nested do, it returns 4 |
| 06:51:53 | <jle`> | my best guess is that the do is causing things to associate differnetly |
| 06:52:30 | <jle`> | without it it becomes (do t <- term; symbol "+"..return (t+e)) <|> return t |
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| 06:52:47 | <jle`> | with it it becomes do t <- ter; ((do symbol "+"; ... <|> return t) |
| 06:54:11 | <ais> | but how can the second do block have `t` in scope, if it's executed first? |
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| 06:55:52 | <ais> | or is laziness then playing a part |
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| 07:09:42 | <jle`> | ais: it's in scope since it's the next line of the do block |
| 07:09:50 | <jle`> | hm, are you familiar with how do-blocks desugar? |
| 07:10:07 | <jle`> | `x <- foo; bar` is sugar for `foo >>= (\x -> bar)` |
| 07:10:10 | <jle`> | so the x is in scope for bar |
| 07:13:05 | <ais> | a bit, but i'm not yet comfortable with it |
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| 07:20:53 | <ais> | all the examples with do blocks and desugaring are usually with some print operations, but since here the Parser type is a lambda where the bind operation applies functions to the inside of a lambda, i have a real hard time trying to understand how the execution is working here with these nested do's |
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| 07:26:23 | <jle`> | it would probably help to manually parenthesize them |
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| 07:28:04 | <jle`> | ais: this is how i might do it https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/T8HqTsVyxz/ |
| 07:28:17 | <jle`> | try de-suguaring the top-level do block |
| 07:28:25 | <jle`> | remember that do blocks just evaluate into single expressions |
| 07:28:36 | <jle`> | so (do ...) <|> return x is just going to be <some expression> <|> return x |
| 07:28:59 | <jle`> | er, lines 4 and 10 there should probably be the same thing |
| 07:29:08 | <jle`> | i just left an extra line break unintentionally |
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| 07:33:22 | <ais> | i actually already tried to desugar a part of this program |
| 07:33:27 | <ais> | and ended up with a mess |
| 07:33:30 | <ais> | lol |
| 07:33:48 | <jle`> | does the parentheses help? |
| 07:34:03 | <jle`> | the first one becomes pretty straightforward i think, with the explicit parens |
| 07:34:18 | <jle`> | it's term >>= (\t -> (do blah) <|> return t) |
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| 07:34:48 | <jle`> | so you see that term's result is getting piped into something that could possibly fail (the do block), and if that fails, 'return t' is tried instead |
| 07:35:01 | <ais> | https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/qbX2m7ZRX5/ |
| 07:35:16 | <ais> | here i tried to "desugar" what is happening with the "string" parser type |
| 07:35:26 | <ais> | and got a bit lost |
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| 07:36:52 | <jle`> | hm, sounds like you're both desugaring the do notation as well as applying the definition of >>= |
| 07:37:10 | <jle`> | to me, looking at it in terms of the definition of >>= doesn't help me understand things too much |
| 07:37:17 | <jle`> | i like to look at each `Parser` value semantically |
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| 07:37:26 | <jle`> | as a unit of meaning that represents something |
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| 07:37:47 | <jle`> | so for `string (x:xs)`, you could interpret it as "parse x, then parse (string xs), and the result is (x:xs)" |
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| 07:38:50 | <jle`> | for your nested case, you could interpret it as "parse a term (call it t). then try to parse {a "+" and then an epression}...if that fails, just return t itself |
| 07:39:50 | <ais> | ok, thanks, i will copy your suggestins and will try from the start |
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| 07:40:05 | <ais> | maybe a few attempts will clear up things for me more |
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| 07:44:41 | <jle`> | i think that's the advantage of parser combinators, to me -- the ability to think about parsers as values you can build up from meaningful primitive values |
| 07:44:56 | <jle`> | how >>=/etc. works for them and how they work under the hood are an implementation detail |
| 07:45:03 | <jle`> | it's still important to know, and good for learning |
| 07:45:17 | <jle`> | but once you get past the basics it's maybe more useful to look at the semantic picture |
| 07:45:52 | <jle`> | ie it's more easy to understand a simple math algorithm (like calculating `factorial x = product [1..x]`) once you move past the level of flipping bits with half-adders to represent addition |
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| 08:58:26 | <dexterfoo> | Which function do I use to detect if I am running inside ghci or compiled exe? |
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| 10:14:05 | <ephemient> | > GHC.Environment.getFullArgs >>= print . System.FilePath.takeFileName . head |
| 10:14:08 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 10:14:08 | <lambdabot> | Not in scope: ‘GHC.Environment.getFullArgs’ |
| 10:14:08 | <lambdabot> | No module named ‘GHC.Environment’ is imported.error: |
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| 10:14:33 | <ephemient> | @let import GHC.Environment |
| 10:14:35 | <lambdabot> | Defined. |
| 10:14:46 | <ephemient> | > getFullArgs >>= print . takeFileName . head |
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| 10:14:49 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 10:14:49 | <lambdabot> | Variable not in scope: takeFileName :: String -> a0 |
| 10:14:59 | <ephemient> | @let import System.FilePath |
| 10:15:00 | <lambdabot> | Defined. |
| 10:15:03 | <ephemient> | > getFullArgs >>= print . takeFileName . head |
| 10:15:06 | <lambdabot> | <IO ()> |
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| 10:15:30 | <ephemient> | hmm I guess it won't work on lambdabot |
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| 10:49:53 | <ij> | if I have (&&) <$> action <*> action', then both actions will be computed? even if the first would've sufficed? |
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| 10:52:33 | <[exa]> | ij: depends on how the Applicative wrap behaves. For example, if `action :: Maybe Bool`, there's no reason to evaluate `action'` if the first action "fails" |
| 10:52:55 | <ij> | ah, they're IOs |
| 10:53:20 | <ij> | hm, maybe I can use allM |
| 10:53:21 | <[exa]> | ij: that being said, if the first thing returns `Just False`, the second action can return `Just undefined` and it will work. |
| 10:53:50 | <[exa]> | IO can fail and short-circuit basically, anytime b/c it interacts with OS |
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| 10:58:04 | <[exa]> | > andM [Just False, undefined] |
| 10:58:07 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 10:58:07 | <lambdabot> | • Variable not in scope: andM :: [Maybe Bool] -> t |
| 10:58:07 | <lambdabot> | • Perhaps you meant ‘and’ (imported from Data.List) |
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| 10:58:22 | <ij> | :t allM |
| 10:58:24 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 10:58:24 | <lambdabot> | • Variable not in scope: allM |
| 10:58:24 | <lambdabot> | • Perhaps you meant one of these: |
| 10:58:31 | <ij> | it's in extra |
| 10:58:41 | <ij> | I won't have undefined |
| 10:58:47 | <ephemient> | @hoogle allM |
| 10:58:48 | <lambdabot> | Control.Monad.Extra allM :: Monad m => (a -> m Bool) -> [a] -> m Bool |
| 10:58:48 | <lambdabot> | Extra allM :: Monad m => (a -> m Bool) -> [a] -> m Bool |
| 10:58:48 | <lambdabot> | Control.Monad.Loops allM :: Monad m => (a -> m Bool) -> [a] -> m Bool |
| 10:58:48 | <[exa]> | it's not defined here. It would print `Just False`, andM/allM copy the short-circuiting behavior of the inner boolean to the wrap |
| 10:58:51 | <ij> | though I see how it might come in handy |
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| 10:59:31 | <[exa]> | ...which is what you want if I understood it correctly :] |
| 10:59:49 | <ephemient> | :t \a b -> a >>= bool (pure False) b |
| 10:59:51 | <lambdabot> | Monad m => m Bool -> m Bool -> m Bool |
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| 11:02:15 | <ij> | I'm not sure about the semantics |
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| 11:02:35 | <ij> | i.e. if it won't get computed it can be undefined |
| 11:02:47 | <[exa]> | ij: there are 2 possible short-circuits there, 1] if the monad fails 2] if the bool is False |
| 11:02:48 | <ij> | whether those are the same |
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| 11:04:29 | <[exa]> | allM processes both, the `(&&) <$> ...` you showed above will retain all monad actions (ie. fail if there's at least one monadic fail in the list) but will short-circuit only the booleans (the monads can return whatever they want after the first False, just their "side-effects" will be retained |
| 11:05:47 | <[exa]> | the snipped that ephemient showed above is the "smart &&" that is used in allM, to propagate the returning of False to also short-circuit the monadic execution |
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| 11:10:55 | <[exa]> | btw you can try various combinations of `andM [print 1 >> return False, print 2 >> return False]`, and the same with `(&&) <$> ...`, or better `fmap and . sequenceA` |
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| 11:44:27 | <idnar> | siraben: probably the code to build the typeclass dictionaries along with the method accessor |
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| 11:46:55 | <siraben> | idnar: wouldn't monomorphisation take care of that? |
| 11:47:41 | <idnar> | siraben: you're exporting the polymorphic code |
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| 11:48:35 | <siraben> | Ah |
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| 12:57:20 | <ski> | s/monad fails/action fails/,s/monads/monadic actions/ |
| 12:58:13 | <[exa]> | true. |
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| 14:25:56 | <siraben> | idnar: but when I put `main = print (norm (1,2,3))` and `main = print (norm3 (1,2,3))` where `norm` is the typeclass version and `norm3` is the regular function, the typeclass version is still larger |
| 14:27:32 | <idnar> | siraben: you need an export list still I think |
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| 15:48:48 | <ij> | @hoogle m (Either e a) -> ExceptT m e a |
| 15:48:49 | <lambdabot> | No results found |
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| 15:50:31 | <ij> | ah, it's EitherT, not ExceptT |
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| 15:54:41 | <ski> | @type ExceptT |
| 15:54:43 | <lambdabot> | m (Either e a) -> ExceptT e m a |
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| 16:00:44 | <ij> | hm |
| 16:00:55 | <ij> | from mtl, right? |
| 16:01:56 | <ski> | `transformers' |
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| 16:52:56 | <ij> | @hoogle m a -> ExceptT e m a |
| 16:52:57 | <lambdabot> | No results found |
| 16:53:10 | <ij> | is it only ExceptT . fmap return? |
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| 16:53:15 | <ij> | :t ExceptT . fmap return |
| 16:53:17 | <lambdabot> | Functor m => m a -> ExceptT e m a |
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| 16:54:17 | <bor0> | (Asked this the other day but trying again :) I have written an evaluator for a very simple language (addition, multiplication, subtraction). Besides literals, it also supports identifiers. How can I approach writing a Hoare-like implementation (preconditions and postconditions) on top of this language? |
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| 17:00:40 | <bor0> | Just found https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/archive/mjcg/HoareLogic/Lectures/AllLectures.pdf, might be useful as something to start with.. |
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| 18:35:51 | <b4er> | You probably haven't got an answer as there is too much room for interpretation. |
| 18:37:07 | <b4er> | bor0, it could be anything from extending a datatype to be sth. like `Stmt {pre, post :: [Condition]}` up to "this is not decidable so there's no implementation" |
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| 19:23:36 | <ij> | does IO interfere with optimisations? my maze solver had pure reads from the board, now it has IO reads |
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| 19:24:22 | <monochrom> | That question is too broad. The only correct answer is "it depends". |
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| 19:25:21 | <ij> | It's meant to be broad – it can only get worse, but should it in some instances? |
| 19:25:27 | <ij> | I guess what you're saying is yes |
| 19:25:34 | <ij> | is is* |
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| 19:27:14 | <merijn> | ij: What do you mean "it can only get worse"? |
| 19:27:48 | <ij> | I would imagine having IO adds uncertainty, so you can optimize less, so speed can only get worse |
| 19:27:49 | <dexterfoo> | In my executable cabal file, I have: "ghc-options: -threaded". Do I also need this flag in my library cabal file? |
| 19:27:54 | <merijn> | ij: Why? |
| 19:28:01 | <merijn> | dexterfoo: No |
| 19:28:04 | <monochrom> | I am always baffled at how programmers are obsessed with vagarities. |
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| 19:28:29 | <merijn> | dexterfoo: -threaded tells GHC whether to use the threaded runtime or not, but the runtime isn't linked until you build an executable, so it does nothing for libraries |
| 19:28:36 | <monochrom> | given that source code is one of the only few things in the whole world that can't tolerate vagarities. |
| 19:28:51 | <dexterfoo> | merijn: thank you |
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| 19:29:11 | <merijn> | dexterfoo: In fact, you'll get warnings if you try :p |
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| 19:29:38 | <ij> | monochrom, are you refering to me? 😅 |
| 19:30:24 | <merijn> | monochrom: last week I saw the tweet: "Becoming a senior engineer means saying "it depends" until you retire or die" ;) |
| 19:30:42 | <monochrom> | Amen |
| 19:31:30 | <ij> | I've also never heard the word vagarities before |
| 19:31:51 | <merijn> | ij: IO doesn't add uncertainty. Why would it? It just means a stricter sequencing of operations |
| 19:32:10 | <merijn> | Whether that effects performance positively, negatively, or not at all is "it depends" |
| 19:33:22 | <ij> | I had some vague, unthoroughly throughthought feeling that it might |
| 19:33:23 | <__monty__> | ij: An example where IO might improve performance is if it allows you to use a mutable data structure and your problem benefits from such. |
| 19:33:40 | <ij> | __monty__, of course :) |
| 19:34:25 | <ij> | I've been trying to rewrite my Map-ful code to mutable vectors over the weekend and it has been a challenge |
| 19:34:28 | <merijn> | __monty__: Even without mutability it might improve performance for some reason |
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| 19:35:30 | <__monty__> | merijn: Sure, I'm only trying to provide a simple example of when IO might have a positive impact on performance. Though I guess my example doesn't have anything to do with GHC's optimizations. |
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| 19:41:13 | <b4er> | I have wondered this before: are there examples of optimizations that have a negative impact on performance? |
| 19:41:23 | <b4er> | Possibly even non-contrived ones? |
| 19:41:25 | <merijn> | b4er: Lots :p |
| 19:41:38 | <merijn> | b4er: Inlining can have massive positive or negative impact, for one |
| 19:41:47 | <b4er> | If there's one there must be lots ;P |
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| 19:42:58 | <b4er> | merijn: are you assuming that users are adding pragmas or what GHC does without hints? |
| 19:43:12 | <monochrom> | Or you could just declare "those don't count as optimizations". |
| 19:43:13 | <merijn> | b4er: Anything that affects memory layout can ruin performance too |
| 19:43:30 | <merijn> | b4er: Both |
| 19:44:35 | <MarcelineVQ> | not quite the topic but I'm just gonna drop this lovely little article in here again https://chrispenner.ca/posts/wc |
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| 19:45:11 | <__monty__> | b4er: An interesting topic that sounds adjacent is deoptimization in JITs. |
| 19:45:38 | <b4er> | Ooh, I remember that one but it's been a long time. I should revisit it, thanks for the reminder |
| 19:48:53 | <b4er> | The crap a JIT compiler needs to deal with, haha wtf I did not even know that deoptimizations exist |
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| 19:50:18 | <__monty__> | It's actually pretty cool. It allows you to optimize past what conventional compilers can do. |
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| 19:52:11 | <b4er> | What a coincidence there's a talk at POPL in three days about it |
| 19:52:59 | <b4er> | Yeah, it seems like a pretty interesting topic. Thanks for that mention |
| 19:54:01 | <monochrom> | As beginners talk like how they're very keen on performance, they go on to write the moral equivalent of "f n = f (n-1) + f (n-1)" (as opposed to "f n = let y = f (n-1) in y+y"), therefore using exponential time algorithms to kill performance and then go on to expect that a 10% speedup by the compiler matters at all. |
| 19:54:46 | <monochrom> | Now, you might say that you never literally wrote that code. But I said "the moral equivalent of". |
| 19:54:59 | <merijn> | monochrom: Or worrying about the performance of integer addition for disk bound code :p |
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| 19:55:47 | <monochrom> | I have seen multiple beginners approach tree-search and tree-update algorithms the following way, which are the moral equivalent of f n = f (n-1) + f (n-1) |
| 19:55:52 | <b4er> | Joke's on you, I never actually write any code |
| 19:55:59 | <monochrom> | Heh OK! |
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| 19:57:06 | <monochrom> | Now, I just said tree, I didn't say balanced or wide tree. The tree can be a bit degenerate or biased or whatever you call it, such that if it has n nodes its depth can still be like n/2 or n-100 or something proportional to n. |
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| 19:59:10 | <b4er> | Tbf (maybe not the tree example), a beginner might struggle with getting it to work in the first place so they might not want to focus on algorithmic "details" |
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| 20:00:53 | <monochrom> | Suppose the task is to look for a certain node and change a datum there. Beginners will write what they think is a harmless 2-pass algorithm, "doit t = if <dive down to look for the desired node> then <dive down to look for the desired node again but this time change the datum> else t" |
| 20:00:55 | <b4er> | I'm pretty sure I once ported a horrible implementation from using lists to an even worse one based on vectors without first optimizing more important things :( |
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| 20:01:51 | <merijn> | Welp...it's been a while since I had a power outage >.> |
| 20:03:04 | <monochrom> | b4er, I am talking about f**king 3rd year CS students. They may be beginners to Haskell but they are not beginners to programming. |
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| 20:04:04 | <merijn> | Hell, some career programmers of 15 years fuck up like that :p |
| 20:07:01 | <monochrom> | Also, IME, ironically, the best way (highest probability, least time) to get it to work is to think of the "details" early on in the first place. |
| 20:07:04 | <__monty__> | Does sound like imperative thinking though. |
| 20:07:31 | <__monty__> | "Find the index, if it exists use the index to update." |
| 20:07:53 | <monochrom> | The expoential-time code I have seen are invariably manifestations of XY problems and procratinating confronting the problem head-on. |
| 20:08:20 | <__monty__> | merijn: I thought losing your government wasn't a big deal? : > |
| 20:08:49 | <Uniaika> | can nix be used to build haskell programs in a distributed fashion? |
| 20:08:49 | <monochrom> | I wouldn't blame it on imperative thinking. In imperative programming, you wouldn't do it either unless you have an array, not a tree or linked list. |
| 20:09:18 | <merijn> | __monty__: lol |
| 20:09:21 | <b4er> | I agree that example can not be excused |
| 20:09:59 | <merijn> | __monty__: Someone looked it up, of the 16 since 1973, 9 have fallen/resigned so my 40% number was actually on the low side for recent years :p |
| 20:11:30 | <__monty__> | Uniaika: Yes but maybe not distributed in the way you want. |
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| 20:12:21 | <Uniaika> | __monty__: (do I even know what I want…?) |
| 20:13:34 | <__monty__> | Uniaika: Nix can distribute builds across remote builders. Where a build is an entire package. |
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| 20:15:47 | <Uniaika> | argh, so I would have to pre-package all my deps beforehand |
| 20:15:49 | <Uniaika> | not great |
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| 20:19:15 | <devalot> | Uniaika: All of Hackage has already been packaged up in nixpkgs. But if you have a lot of non-Hackage deps I can see where that'd be a problem. |
| 20:20:17 | <Uniaika> | hmm, I don't have that requirement |
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| 20:23:44 | <__monty__> | It's distribution of builds also isn't in no way smart or advanced. It's basically do as many builds as allowed locally then in order of how "fast" remote builders are do as many builds as allowed on each. How fast a remote builder is is determined by a score you assign it in the configuration file. For each remote build the local machine fetches everything, then sends everything to the remote builder, |
| 20:23:51 | <__monty__> | then fetches the results. (Though you can enable binary caches for each remote builder, combined with a local (to the remote builders) cache proxy this can offset a ton of unnecessary traffic.) |
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| 20:28:43 | <Uniaika> | __monty__: I was thinking of that because I'm going to get a slightly beefier computer at home tomorrow, and I was wondering if I could take advantage of both of them for building heavy Haskell deps |
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| 20:29:11 | <Uniaika> | and it would require switching to nix for my project (which isn't too much of a bad thing) |
| 20:29:48 | <__monty__> | Depending on how familiar you are with the nixpkgs haskell infra I'd recommend checking out haskell.nix. |
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| 20:30:33 | <__monty__> | Uniaika: In such a case I highly recommend setting up a local cache proxy btw. |
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| 20:48:41 | <slack1256> | Does anyone use `hasktorch` on nixos? What is the standard way to play with it on a repl? |
| 20:50:21 | <Uniaika> | thanks __monty__ |
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| 20:55:54 | <ij> | merijn, I figured out why I think so: because I rewrote pure access code to IO access code, which is not optimized in every place, so |
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| 20:57:03 | <ij> | (accidental enter too early) anyway, so some things might be accessed twice with the same index, but it's IO, so you couldn't detect that it's going to be the same data |
| 20:57:35 | <merijn> | ij: Optimistic if you think the compiler will magically detect that in the pure case... |
| 20:57:48 | <ij> | probably |
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| 21:21:43 | <b3z> | I am trying to calculate Pi in haskell using the bailey-bowein-plouffe formula https://pastebin.com/Gua4pDN7 |
| 21:22:03 | <b3z> | But I get a parse error. What does that mean here and what am I doing wrong= |
| 21:23:42 | <merijn> | You don't have the entire file, so how can we tell? |
| 21:23:56 | <merijn> | Parse error on line 8, but you only have 3 lines of code... |
| 21:24:11 | <MarcelineVQ> | you're missing a ) at least, as the error is suggesting |
| 21:24:22 | <ij> | merijn, in this case I am quite sure the compiler would've optimized it before in this case |
| 21:24:33 | <b3z> | merijn: above its just blank lines |
| 21:24:57 | <b3z> | well that is what I thought as well, I have to double check again |
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| 21:25:37 | <b3z> | oh okay, brackets in haskell are weired |
| 21:25:42 | <MarcelineVQ> | You can check this by counting, you have 7 ( and 6 ) |
| 21:26:00 | <b3z> | yes I made some mistake. |
| 21:26:17 | <merijn> | Or better yet, don't have such a huge expression and assign them to some named variables >.> |
| 21:26:32 | <b3z> | But if I have a function which takes 1 arg ist then e.g. x+1 counted as one or do I have to put brackets? |
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| 21:27:39 | <hyperisco> | so the span thing from yesterday… I see that it is deduplicating the work of evaluating the predicate |
| 21:27:50 | <Ariakenom> | f x+1 is the same as (f x) + 1 |
| 21:28:11 | <hyperisco> | but to get the snd, even after completely traversing fst, it seems you have to follow a list of thunks just as long |
| 21:28:30 | <hyperisco> | which is not what I was hoping for |
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| 21:29:59 | <Ariakenom> | ^ b3z |
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| 21:30:05 | <hyperisco> | I think I need some unsafe effects |
| 21:30:34 | <hyperisco> | the cost is not the predicate, it is the traversal, because the list is long |
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| 21:42:12 | <b3z> | alright thanks |
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| 21:46:03 | <b3z> | Okay now I got it to compile. But why is there no result getting out of this? https://pastebin.com/KtTSwfM4 |
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| 21:46:34 | <b3z> | I also tried to make it more readable merijn |
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| 21:47:18 | <b3z> | fyi I just startet doing things in haskell so I am sorry for these beginner mistakes |
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| 21:57:05 | <__monty__> | b3z: Integer division of 1 by something greater than 2 is 0 because the exact result is less than 0.5. |
| 21:57:17 | <__monty__> | Maybe you want to use Doubles? Or Rational? |
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| 21:58:01 | <b3z> | Oh that's not automatically? |
| 21:58:38 | <__monty__> | You're using integer division "quot" rather than regular division "/". |
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| 21:58:53 | <__monty__> | > 1 `quot` 3 |
| 21:58:55 | <lambdabot> | 0 |
| 21:58:57 | <__monty__> | > 1 / 3 |
| 21:58:59 | <lambdabot> | 0.3333333333333333 |
| 21:59:19 | <b3z> | I see you have to be very precise in haskell |
| 22:00:17 | <b3z> | So i'd the do something like > 1.0/18.0**2.0 |
| 22:00:19 | <__monty__> | You'd encounter the same problem in python. Most languages really. |
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| 22:01:43 | <b3z> | But if you do 1/16.0 the result is a double? or what is the type then? |
| 22:02:02 | <b3z> | is there a way to find out? |
| 22:02:05 | <ski> | > 1/16.0 |
| 22:02:07 | <lambdabot> | 6.25e-2 |
| 22:02:12 | <ski> | > 1/16.0 :: Rational |
| 22:02:14 | <lambdabot> | 1 % 16 |
| 22:02:45 | <__monty__> | b3z: It's whatever type is inferred for the position in the code. |
| 22:02:55 | <ski> | @type 1/16 |
| 22:02:57 | <lambdabot> | Fractional a => a |
| 22:03:59 | <c_wraith> | as for how to find out? use -Wall and it'll warn you if it has to pick a type. Otherwise it's whatever is inferred based on the types of things using it. |
| 22:04:04 | <ski> | `18.0^2' should be just as fine as `18.0**2.0' |
| 22:04:08 | <mctpyt> | b3z: you can use `:t` in ghci, it's pretty useful |
| 22:04:30 | <mctpyt> | :t 1/16.0 |
| 22:04:31 | <lambdabot> | Fractional a => a |
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| 22:05:01 | <b3z> | But you can't do 16.0**2 right? |
| 22:05:13 | <ski> | > 16.0**2 |
| 22:05:14 | <__monty__> | > 16.0 ** 2 |
| 22:05:15 | <lambdabot> | 256.0 |
| 22:05:16 | <lambdabot> | 256.0 |
| 22:05:18 | <__monty__> | >.< |
| 22:05:20 | <b3z> | thanks for the advice everyone |
| 22:05:30 | <ski> | numeric literals are overloaded |
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| 22:06:06 | <__monty__> | b3z: You can but you can't pass an Int. The literal 2 here is interpreted as a Double (I think it depends on defaulting in this case?). |
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| 22:06:36 | <ski> | (yes) |
| 22:07:25 | <b3z> | okay |
| 22:08:16 | <b3z> | need to gain experience |
| 22:09:43 | <ski> | `(^)' is for natural number exponents (so, non-negative integers). `(^^)' is for integer exponents in general. `(**)' is for floating-point exponents (and the base has to be the same type, in this case) |
| 22:10:47 | <ski> | > 4 ^ 3 :: Integer |
| 22:10:49 | <lambdabot> | 64 |
| 22:10:53 | <ski> | > 4 ^ (-1) :: Integer |
| 22:10:55 | <lambdabot> | *Exception: Negative exponent |
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| 22:11:06 | <ski> | > 4 ^^ (-1) :: Rational |
| 22:11:08 | <lambdabot> | 1 % 4 |
| 22:11:21 | <ski> | > 4 ** (-1) :: Rational |
| 22:11:24 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 22:11:24 | <lambdabot> | • No instance for (Floating Rational) arising from a use of ‘**’ |
| 22:11:24 | <lambdabot> | • In the expression: 4 ** (- 1) :: Rational |
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| 22:12:24 | <b3z> | Okay now i have a valid program https://pastebin.com/HherScqW |
| 22:12:55 | <b3z> | But Still its not pi. Are there any syntax related issues you can spot? |
| 22:13:18 | <b3z> | or does my formula just not work the way I want it to. |
| 22:13:48 | <b3z> | I am trying to implement this one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bailey–Borwein–Plouffe_formula |
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| 22:24:49 | <ski> | b3z : because you're not including the term for `n = 0' |
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| 22:25:20 | <b3z> | why you mean? in the pattern matching? ski |
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| 22:26:18 | <ski> | the thing (depending on `n') you add to your accumulator `pi', in each step -- you're not adding this, when `n' is zero |
| 22:27:11 | <ski> | also, since you're counting `n' down, i think you'd better use an integral type for it, rather than a floating-point type. you can use `fromIntegral' to convert |
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| 22:27:37 | <__monty__> | > (1e16 :: Double) - 1 |
| 22:27:39 | <lambdabot> | 1.0e16 |
| 22:27:46 | <__monty__> | b3z: To avoid things like this ^ |
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| 22:30:06 | <b3z> | wow you are a genius |
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| 22:30:22 | <b3z> | Ye was the missing last with n=0 |
| 22:31:07 | <ski> | also, i think it'd be better to not have the user have to supply the initial value for the accumulator |
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| 22:31:37 | <b3z> | Yes but I don't know how to do it another way :D |
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| 22:32:15 | <b3z> | pi is initially pi = 0 so there is no need to have it as an argument which is give by the user. |
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| 22:33:07 | <ski> | just make a separate function that provides the initial value |
| 22:33:09 | <b3z> | So would the way be to make it in a lambda function? |
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| 22:33:18 | <b3z> | Oh. Yeah or like this. |
| 22:33:24 | <ski> | (and then you could make the first function local to the new one) |
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| 22:40:57 | <b3z> | alright thanks So this is the running solution https://pastebin.com/ZcXdcnFM |
| 22:41:24 | <b3z> | But right now my result has only 15 digits after the comma. Is there a smart way to get it more precise? |
| 22:43:55 | <superstar64> | i have 60 class and 210 instances in 1.7k lines of haskell, how awful is this? |
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| 22:44:58 | <superstar64> | i might be taking this tagless final thing too far |
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| 23:06:53 | <hyperisco> | imagine you have a long list xs, and you want to know both sum xs and length xs |
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| 23:07:03 | <hyperisco> | pretty sure this is a classic example of something, but I don't recall what |
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| 23:07:13 | <hyperisco> | point is, you do not want to traverse the list twice |
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| 23:15:44 | <dexterfoo> | my multithreaded haskell program has been tested pretty thoroughly, but only on a single cpu server. what are the chances that it will be buggy when i run it on multi cpu server? |
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| 23:26:19 | <DigitalKiwi> | 100% |
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