Logs on 2021-01-18 (freenode/#haskell)
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| 05:11:32 | <siraben> | What's the complexity of taking the head of a difference list? |
| 05:12:10 | <glguy> | siraben, depends on how the difference list was constructed |
| 05:12:28 | <siraben> | can you re-associate the function composition? |
| 05:12:44 | <glguy> | can the programmer? |
| 05:12:44 | <siraben> | something like the codensity monad |
| 05:13:09 | <siraben> | Like, if I have a lot of right-associated compositions isn't that going to make performance worse on the head? |
| 05:13:18 | <siraben> | Oops I mean left-associated |
| 05:13:30 | <glguy> | The issue is that it's one big function. taking the head requires you to actually apply the function and let it do its thing |
| 05:13:36 | <siraben> | ((((a ++) . (b ++)) . (c++)) |
| 05:13:51 | <glguy> | for a difference list you'd want to convert it to a list just once |
| 05:14:07 | <siraben> | so what issue does it solve, that it makes concatenation constant time? |
| 05:14:58 | <glguy> | avoids the quadradic cost of left-associated appends |
| 05:15:53 | <siraben> | Like (((a ++ b) ++ c) ++ d) ... right |
| 05:16:13 | <glguy> | yeah |
| 05:16:31 | <glguy> | If you want to flip/flop back and forth between building and looking at this list, try something like Data.Sequence |
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| 05:18:11 | <nshepperd> | i think taking the head of a difference list should be O(number of concatenations) |
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| 05:18:59 | <glguy> | > head ((('a':) . undefined)[]) |
| 05:19:01 | <lambdabot> | 'a' |
| 05:19:01 | <dolio> | It depends on how the concatenations are nested, though. |
| 05:20:06 | <glguy> | that example shows it's not a straightforward count of concats, but how many concats you had to traverse to find the head |
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| 05:22:35 | <siraben> | in the worst case it would be = number of concats |
| 05:22:56 | <siraben> | right? |
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| 05:25:58 | <glguy> | sounds right |
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| 05:28:37 | <siraben> | rev :: [a] -> DList a |
| 05:28:37 | <siraben> | rev [] = id |
| 05:28:37 | <siraben> | rev (x:xs) = rev xs . (x:) |
| 05:28:41 | <siraben> | How's this for a reverse function? |
| 05:28:51 | <siraben> | looks like it would be linear to me |
| 05:31:36 | <siraben> | there's a great section in Algebra of Programming on the categorical view of this (Section 3.5) |
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| 06:52:36 | <gaussian> | if you expand it out you'll see that it's actually the same as the standard tail recursive definition with accumulator |
| 06:52:43 | <gaussian> | rev [] acc = acc |
| 06:52:52 | <gaussian> | rev (x:xs) acc = rev xs (x:acc) |
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| 07:11:51 | <siraben> | equational reasoning FTW |
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| 07:14:47 | <mniip> | be careful with mixing equational reasoning and "performance" though |
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| 07:15:06 | <mniip> | performance isn't preserved under some transformations |
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| 07:20:27 | <siraben> | mniip: oh definitely. |
| 07:20:51 | <siraben> | fold/scan fusion is a great way to reduce running time by an order of n |
| 07:21:26 | <siraben> | there's work on combining equational reasoning and performance, called "inequational reasoning" |
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| 07:24:09 | <MarcelineVQ> | some equations are more equal than others |
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| 07:26:30 | <gaussian> | siraben: where can i find work on inequational reasoning? |
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| 07:29:13 | <siraben> | gaussian: i first saw it in Hutton's work https://www.cs.nott.ac.uk/~pszjlh/metrics.pdf |
| 07:29:54 | <gaussian> | thanks |
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| 08:44:45 | <dminuoso> | Working with IP addresses is not fun. Since I want to support both v4 and v6, I either duplicate a lot of code paths for `f4 :: IPv4 -> ...` and `f6 :: IPv6 -> ...`, or I bring them into a common type, but then have annoying casts `get4 :: AnyIP -> M IPv4` everywhere else... |
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| 08:48:45 | <maerwald> | dminuoso: I believe in diverging code-paths... once you've done it, you will see IF there is a proper abstraction to be made or not |
| 08:49:08 | <maerwald> | I think it's impossible to know beforehand |
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| 08:50:13 | <b4er> | If you haven't seen it, there are two Haskell related talks today. A tutorial "Liquid Haskell: Refinement Type Checker for Haskell" and a presentation of "On Adding Pattern Matching to Haskell-based Deeply Embedded Domain Specific Languages" |
| 08:50:24 | <b4er> | Covid doesn't suck so much after all haha |
| 08:50:48 | <b4er> | https://popl21.sigplan.org/program/program-POPL-2021 |
| 08:52:24 | <Guest_55> | Hi guys, I'm an absolute newbie, and I am trying to install Haskell using ghcup on my MacOS device, but it seems like I'm getting errors when I just copy and paste the command line recommended on the home installation page of the website. Is there any way you can help me through? Thanks in advance! |
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| 08:53:51 | <maerwald> | Guest_55: Apple silicon? |
| 08:54:06 | <Guest_55> | no, older intel macs |
| 08:54:11 | <b4er> | Guest_55: I have no idea what ghcup is nor have I ever used MacOS but I'm pretty sure you haven't provided enough information for anyone to help |
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| 08:54:58 | <maerwald> | Is Xcode CLI tools installed? |
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| 08:57:18 | <Guest_55> | I want to install Haskell on my device, so basically I googled Haskell Installation MacOS, then I opened the official Haskell website, and there were two link. One of them being ghcup, the other one being Stack. I pasted the line from the stack installation page in Terminal, and it worked (I guess). But when I tried to do the same thing with the |
| 08:57:19 | <Guest_55> | command line of the ghcup page, it didn't work. can I provide screenshots here? |
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| 08:58:57 | <Guest_55> | umm, if I need XCode itself to have XCode CLI tools installed, then no - I haven't installed XCode, because of the absurd amount of storage it needs. should I? |
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| 09:01:53 | <maerwald> | Yes |
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| 09:02:45 | <dminuoso> | maerwald: Well, the code paths on the IPv4/IPv6 are almost entirely identical... |
| 09:02:48 | <maerwald> | Mac is supposed to open in dialogue box |
| 09:02:56 | <maerwald> | but apparently that doesn't always work |
| 09:03:26 | <dminuoso> | https://gist.github.com/dminuoso/4a9e531ea9e0953dc612bf3f691a4d6a |
| 09:04:17 | <Guest_55> | it needs around 12-13 GB of internet and storage. isn't there any other way? |
| 09:04:22 | <dminuoso> | I can of course glue a sum type ontop of all these, that just dispatches each side to their respective implementations. But I have a set of APIs that strictly talk about IPv4 and IPv6. THe idea is that I have separate IPv4 and IPv6 services, but shared allocation logic for IPv4 and IPv6.. |
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| 09:04:34 | <Guest_55> | Or should I keep using repl.it ? :D |
| 09:05:02 | <maerwald> | Dunno, I don't have a Mac |
| 09:05:30 | <Guest_55> | alright, thanks a bunch that you tried to help! Have a great day. |
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| 09:09:33 | <maerwald> | 10,99dminuoso99,99: so they are functions that work on IPv6 only, IPv4 only and some on both? |
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| 09:09:53 | <dminuoso> | maerwald: No, virtually everything works on both. It's just that their representation is different, so the math is shifted... |
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| 09:11:31 | <dminuoso> | The entire logic in the middle works exactly the same for both sides, except an IPv4/IPv4Range is just a Word32/Word32*Word8 and IPv6/IPv6Range is just Word128/Word128*Word8. The logic in the middle knows of just pools of addresses with prefix size (which would be 1-32 for IPv4, and 1-128 for IPv6) |
| 09:11:49 | <dminuoso> | But of course a /32 on IPv4 is a host address, and on IPv6 its a large prefix |
| 09:12:12 | <maerwald> | Can't you make a record type of functions that encapsulates that math without a sum type? |
| 09:12:58 | <maerwald> | Then all the functions require that record type and are agnostic of the math |
| 09:13:16 | <maerwald> | No pattern matching |
| 09:13:48 | <dminuoso> | So a sort of `IsIP i => i -> ...` mtl style? |
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| 09:14:25 | <dminuoso> | Yeah the problem is I have a DB layer in between |
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| 09:15:25 | <dminuoso> | So that would mean if I pull IP addresses out of the database, those would become existentials - which brings me all the way back, if at the end I need to produce an IPv4/IPv6 representation for the API, I need the dynamic casts again |
| 09:15:35 | <dminuoso> | Perhaps it's okay to just accept the casts here.. |
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| 09:16:05 | <kritzefitz> | dminuoso, to me it sounded more like `IPOpDict i -> i -> ...`, which is AIUI similar to a type class, but different on a language level. |
| 09:16:21 | <maerwald> | Why existentials? You'd have a smart constructor for the record type |
| 09:16:23 | <dminuoso> | kritzefitz: That's just irrelevant details, really. |
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| 09:16:55 | <dminuoso> | maerwald: Maybe I misunderstand. Can you explain what you mean by "record type of functions"? |
| 09:19:16 | <maerwald> | I can't type much, but I mean a product type where each field is a function. One of them can return an Either IPv6 IPv4 and the rest encapsulate the math, so most functions don't need to know which IP version it is |
| 09:20:30 | <dminuoso> | Well, the math is shifted depending on whether its IPv4 or IPv6 either way.. |
| 09:20:49 | <maerwald> | Yes |
| 09:21:11 | <dminuoso> | So I wont get around discriminating whether I have an IPv4 or IPv6 at the end. |
| 09:21:27 | <maerwald> | I can't follow |
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| 09:23:26 | <maerwald> | The math is in the product type, you discriminate only in the smart constructor |
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| 09:24:36 | <dminuoso> | maerwald: https://gist.github.com/dminuoso/ffcd090e13437b75bde98a61d3b08858 |
| 09:24:38 | <dminuoso> | Consider this. |
| 09:25:24 | <kritzefitz> | dminuoso, to me it sounds like the casts will be the best way. I imagine you can get around most (but definitely not all) of the casts, if you use an existential wrapper instead of multiple constructors. But my judgement might be off there.. |
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| 09:27:57 | <dminuoso> | maerwald: I just dont see a way to abstract over this with a kind of record function sensibly. I'd have to find a way to uniformly represent both IPv4 and IPv6 in the same data type - I could embed them both inside Word128, but it's corner cases that ruins this. For example, if I support *fusing* two together, then depending on whether its an IPv4 or IPv6 internally, it might fail either when it I |
| 09:27:59 | <dminuoso> | have 32 bits or 128 bits reached. |
| 09:28:09 | <dminuoso> | (And the need to support fusing will come) |
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| 09:28:26 | <dminuoso> | Or I need to branch for every bit of math I want to do here. |
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| 09:33:17 | <MarcelineVQ> | what was the resolution? |
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| 09:33:44 | <maerwald> | dminuoso: you will have a record field `split :: IPRange v -> Maybe (IPRange v, IPRange v)` in the product type and the smart constructor instantiates the v. The v doesn't have to be known to most of your application. |
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| 09:34:33 | <dminuoso> | What does `v` capture? |
| 09:35:02 | <maerwald> | An empty data type IPv6 or a symbol |
| 09:36:04 | <dminuoso> | Mmm, yeah. I guess that's equivalent to some `class IsIPRange i where split :: i -> Maybe (i, i); fuse :: i -> i -> Maybe i` |
| 09:36:36 | <dminuoso> | The additional type shenanigans can be implemented orthogonal to this |
| 09:37:45 | <maerwald> | Similar, but I'm allergic to type classes |
| 09:38:04 | <dminuoso> | Well, it'd be a lawful typeclass! :) |
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| 09:38:21 | <dminuoso> | But let's not discuss the ergonomics of the typeclass, because that's not relevanth ere. |
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| 09:38:55 | <dminuoso> | So if I decompose your suggestion: a record/dictionary of functions, and perhaps singletons to track whether the correct types are chosen |
| 09:39:23 | <maerwald> | And a way to cast to the representation via Either |
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| 09:40:36 | <maerwald> | So you have the info on type level, can get it on value level and can still be fairly agnostic of both |
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| 09:43:55 | <maerwald> | But not sure how ergonomic that is in the end |
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| 09:45:05 | <dminuoso> | Well typeclasses actually make this sort of bearable |
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| 10:28:40 | <Franciman> | has anybody used haskell on aws lambda? |
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| 10:32:07 | <ukari> | what is the most precise name for function `foo` with signature `foo :: Monad m => (a -> m (Maybe b)) -> Maybe a -> m (Maybe b)`? |
| 10:32:35 | <Franciman> | looks like a particular case of |
| 10:32:49 | <Franciman> | uhm |
| 10:32:51 | <merijn> | Looks like traverse :p |
| 10:32:55 | <merijn> | Everything's traverse :p |
| 10:32:55 | <Franciman> | yes |
| 10:32:59 | <merijn> | :t traverse |
| 10:33:01 | <lambdabot> | (Traversable t, Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f (t b) |
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| 10:34:32 | <ukari> | it is f b, not f (t b) in traverse |
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| 10:34:53 | <merijn> | ukari: just imaging the 'b' in trace to be 'Maybe b' |
| 10:35:05 | <merijn> | ukari: The fact that Maybe is in the input and result is irrelevant |
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| 10:36:00 | <merijn> | If you unify the 'a -> m (Maybe b)' with the (let's change variables for clarity) 'c -> m (Maybe d)' in traverse you just get 'c = a' and 'd = Maybe b' |
| 10:36:31 | <merijn> | :t traverse `asAppliedTo` (\_ -> return Nothing) |
| 10:36:32 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 10:36:32 | <lambdabot> | Variable not in scope: |
| 10:36:32 | <lambdabot> | asAppliedTo |
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| 10:36:39 | <merijn> | wut |
| 10:36:48 | <ukari> | still weird, if 'b' is 'Maybe b', (a -> f b) -> t a -> f (t b) will become (a -> f (Maybe b)) -> t a -> f (t (Maybe b)), but what is the 't'? |
| 10:37:16 | <merijn> | oh, wait, you need join too |
| 10:37:24 | <merijn> | Easily solved |
| 10:37:28 | <int-e> | merijn: I cleaned up Pristine.hs :-P |
| 10:37:44 | <merijn> | ukari: You're right, you get "m (Maybe (Maybe b))" as result |
| 10:37:50 | <merijn> | ukari: But that's easily solved by |
| 10:37:51 | <merijn> | :t join |
| 10:37:53 | <merijn> | int-e: :( |
| 10:37:53 | <lambdabot> | Monad m => m (m a) -> m a |
| 10:38:06 | <merijn> | int-e: asAppliedTo was super useful, why'd you get rid of it? :( |
| 10:38:34 | <kritzefitz> | Is there a tool (probably based on cabal or stack) that downloads the source for all project dependencies to create a source “bundle” which can later be used to build the project and all its dependencies without downloading the dependencies again? I think this would be useful to build binaries that can be distributed under GPL terms. |
| 10:38:44 | <int-e> | I'm not a big fan of functions that aren't properly defined in a package. |
| 10:38:51 | <MarcelineVQ> | @let asAppliedTo :: (a -> b) -> a -> a -> b; asAppliedTo = const |
| 10:38:53 | <lambdabot> | Defined. |
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| 10:40:04 | <merijn> | MarcelineVQ: That's gone as soon as anyone does @undefine, though :\ |
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| 10:40:21 | <MarcelineVQ> | la vie est drol |
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| 10:41:24 | <int-e> | as far as I can see, it took 5 days for this to be missed... so arguably it's not super important. |
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| 10:41:58 | <merijn> | I used it a lot when demonstrating things for beginners like how traverse get specialised and there's no real alternative |
| 10:42:08 | <MarcelineVQ> | It's pretty useful for demonstration I have to agree :> alongside things like those reflection variable things |
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| 10:42:32 | <MarcelineVQ> | > foldr f z [a,b,c] -- these ones |
| 10:42:34 | <lambdabot> | f a (f b (f c z)) |
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| 10:43:15 | <int-e> | @hackage simple-reflect |
| 10:43:15 | <lambdabot> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/simple-reflect |
| 10:44:08 | <int-e> | I mean I can add `asAppliedTo` back, but I'm not quite convinced that I should. |
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| 10:46:40 | <int-e> | https://stackoverflow.com/questions/32320818/smoother-type-annotation-in-bind-chain "I seem to recall that asAppliedTo is a standard thing, but a quick hoogle doesn't reveal it" -- and that still seems to be true |
| 10:46:55 | <int-e> | that's basically my point/reason |
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| 10:47:47 | <merijn> | Where would you define something that has no practical purpose, though? |
| 10:47:55 | <merijn> | (besides demonstrative/teaching) |
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| 10:48:19 | <__monty__> | ACME? |
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| 10:48:50 | <kuribas> | int-e: did you mean asTypeOf? |
| 10:48:52 | <kuribas> | :t asTypeOf |
| 10:48:54 | <lambdabot> | a -> a -> a |
| 10:48:56 | <int-e> | why does it have no practical purpose though |
| 10:49:05 | <int-e> | kuribas: No I didn't. |
| 10:49:27 | <merijn> | kuribas: asAppliedTo has been in lambdabot for over a decade |
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| 10:49:41 | <kuribas> | hmm, right |
| 10:49:43 | <int-e> | s/has/had/ |
| 10:49:44 | <Taneb> | int-e: I've used asAppliedTo occasionally (I think I was the one who originally defined it when I was first using Haskell?) |
| 10:49:49 | <Taneb> | (maybe?) |
| 10:49:57 | <merijn> | I started learning somewhere 2007-2009? And it was around back then |
| 10:50:09 | <kuribas> | scopedTypeVariables makes those unnecessary, no? |
| 10:50:13 | <Taneb> | Ah, so maybe not me then (I started in 2010, 2011) |
| 10:50:22 | <merijn> | kuribas: No? |
| 10:50:26 | <MarcelineVQ> | I defined it just now so I'm gonna take the credit |
| 10:50:30 | <Taneb> | Maybe I was just shown it and my memory is foggy |
| 10:50:49 | <merijn> | :t traverse `asAppliedTo` (\_ -> return Nothing) |
| 10:50:51 | <lambdabot> | (Traversable t, Monad f) => (a1 -> f (Maybe a2)) -> t a1 -> f (t (Maybe a2)) |
| 10:51:03 | <merijn> | kuribas: How would you achieve that via scoped type variables? |
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| 10:51:45 | <kritzefitz> | I think TypeApplications can do something similar, but if that works in lambdabot. I'm also not sure if that is something you want to confront learners with. |
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| 10:51:58 | <kritzefitz> | *but I don't know if that works in lambdabot. |
| 10:52:01 | <merijn> | TypeApplications is a bad extension and it's also annoying to use |
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| 10:53:33 | <kuribas> | :t traverse (\_ -> return Nothing) :: (Traversable t, Monad f) => (a -> f (Maybe b)) -> t a -> f (t (Maybe b)) -- merijn |
| 10:53:35 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 10:53:35 | <lambdabot> | • Couldn't match type ‘t1’ with ‘Maybe’ |
| 10:53:36 | <lambdabot> | ‘t1’ is a rigid type variable bound by |
| 10:54:03 | <merijn> | kuribas: No, because that doesn't include the lambda |
| 10:54:15 | <merijn> | kuribas: That *actually* applies traverse, stripping off an argument |
| 10:54:27 | <kuribas> | :t (\_ -> return Nothing) :: (Traversable t, Monad f) => (a -> f (Maybe b)) -> t a -> f (t (Maybe b)) -- merijn |
| 10:54:29 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 10:54:29 | <lambdabot> | • Couldn't match type ‘f1’ with ‘Maybe’ |
| 10:54:29 | <lambdabot> | ‘f1’ is a rigid type variable bound by |
| 10:54:38 | <int-e> | :t \a -> traverse (a `asTypeOf` (\_ -> return Nothing)) |
| 10:54:40 | <lambdabot> | (Traversable t, Monad f) => (p -> f (Maybe a)) -> t p -> f (t (Maybe a)) |
| 10:55:07 | <merijn> | Seems pretty clear how that's *worse* |
| 10:55:43 | <merijn> | More verbose, more cryptic. asAppliedTo has a nice name that even someone who never used Haskell can guess |
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| 10:58:01 | <kuribas> | :t traverse :: (Traversable t, Monad f) => (a -> f (Maybe b)) -> t a -> f (t (Maybe b)) |
| 10:58:03 | <lambdabot> | (Traversable t, Monad f) => (a -> f (Maybe b)) -> t a -> f (t (Maybe b)) |
| 10:58:12 | <kuribas> | merijn: works fine... |
| 10:58:24 | <kuribas> | but verbose though |
| 10:58:25 | <merijn> | Yeah, but I don't wanna write all that out |
| 10:58:32 | <merijn> | Then I might as well *not* use :t |
| 10:59:06 | <kuribas> | yeah, it's a shame you cannot assigne type variables by name... |
| 10:59:24 | <int-e> | @undef |
| 10:59:25 | <lambdabot> | Undefined. |
| 10:59:30 | <int-e> | :t asAppliedTo |
| 10:59:32 | <lambdabot> | (a -> b) -> a -> a -> b |
| 10:59:33 | <int-e> | meh |
| 10:59:39 | <merijn> | \o/ |
| 10:59:55 | <int-e> | @src asAppliedTo |
| 10:59:55 | <lambdabot> | f `asAppliedTo` a = f where _ = f a |
| 10:59:55 | <lambdabot> | infixl 0 `asAppliedTo` |
| 10:59:58 | <int-e> | beauty |
| 11:01:59 | <kuribas> | merijn: it seems more useful for irc than on actual code. |
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| 11:02:12 | <kuribas> | perhaps for ghci as well. |
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| 11:05:07 | <ephemient> | would be nice if Haskell would allow holes in type annotations like Rust does |
| 11:05:25 | <opqdonut> | I thought GHC has an extension for that |
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| 11:05:58 | <__monty__> | ephemient: Do you mean without that causing an error message? Because it's totally a thing if not. |
| 11:06:03 | <ephemient> | :t (+) :: a -> _ -> _ |
| 11:06:05 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 11:06:05 | <lambdabot> | • No instance for (Num a1) arising from a use of ‘+’ |
| 11:06:05 | <lambdabot> | Possible fix: |
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| 11:06:12 | <opqdonut> | ephemient: https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/7.10.1/docs/html/users_guide/partial-type-signatures.html |
| 11:07:02 | <opqdonut> | :t (+) :: _ => Int -> _ -> _ |
| 11:07:04 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 11:07:04 | <lambdabot> | • Found type wildcard ‘_’ standing for ‘()’ |
| 11:07:04 | <lambdabot> | To use the inferred type, enable PartialTypeSignatures |
| 11:07:13 | <opqdonut> | looks like PartialTypeSignatures is not enabled on lambdabot |
| 11:07:20 | <ephemient> | also I didn't think that worked on type annotations, only signatures |
| 11:07:32 | <ephemient> | but maybe it does and I never tried... |
| 11:07:57 | <opqdonut> | I've never actually used it... |
| 11:07:59 | <ephemient> | I'm just wondering why `asAppliedTo` is useful if we have that |
| 11:08:27 | <opqdonut> | asAppliedTo is Haskell98 |
| 11:08:34 | <opqdonut> | or Haskell2010 |
| 11:08:43 | <opqdonut> | @src asAppliedTo |
| 11:08:44 | <lambdabot> | f `asAppliedTo` a = f where _ = f a |
| 11:08:44 | <lambdabot> | infixl 0 `asAppliedTo` |
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| 11:11:21 | <ephemient> | so it does work on annotations |
| 11:12:00 | <ephemient> | :t \(f :: _ -> _ (Maybe _)) -> traverse f -- if the proper extensions were enabled on lambdabot, could do this instead of the previous `asAppliedTo` example |
| 11:12:02 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 11:12:02 | <lambdabot> | • Found type wildcard ‘_’ standing for ‘_’ |
| 11:12:02 | <lambdabot> | Where: ‘_’ is a rigid type variable bound by |
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| 11:16:35 | <int-e> | :t \(f :: _ -> _ (Maybe _)) -> traverse f |
| 11:16:44 | <lambdabot> | (Traversable t, Applicative f) => (_1 -> f (Maybe _2)) -> t _1 -> f (t (Maybe _2)) |
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| 12:43:32 | <ukari> | foo :: (Monad m, Traversable t, Monad t) => (a -> m (t b)) -> t a -> m (t b) |
| 12:43:34 | <ukari> | foo = (((join <$>) .) .) traverse |
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| 12:44:22 | <dminuoso> | Why does lambdabot mention _1 and _2 there? What is this? |
| 12:44:52 | <merijn> | dminuoso: Seems like party of PartialTypeSignatures? |
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| 12:46:08 | <ukari> | I thought `(((join <$>) .) .) traverse` is not clearly and there maybe a precise name to describe it |
| 12:46:23 | <merijn> | eh |
| 12:46:27 | <merijn> | Use variable names? |
| 12:47:06 | <dminuoso> | % :set -XPartialTypeSignatures |
| 12:47:06 | <yahb> | dminuoso: |
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| 12:47:16 | <dminuoso> | % :set -Wno-partial-type-signatures |
| 12:47:16 | <yahb> | dminuoso: |
| 12:47:22 | <dminuoso> | % :t let a :: _ -> _; a = undefined in a |
| 12:47:22 | <yahb> | dminuoso: _1 -> _2 |
| 12:47:26 | <dminuoso> | Mmm. Seems like |
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| 13:38:50 | <kuribas> | "if b then True else False" is more strict than "b", no? |
| 13:39:02 | <dminuoso> | "is more strict"? |
| 13:39:11 | <kuribas> | so it's equal to "b `seq` b"? |
| 13:39:37 | <merijn> | kuribas: That's a no-op |
| 13:39:43 | <dminuoso> | kuribas: No, you sound confused. |
| 13:39:53 | <Taneb> | kuribas: it's equally strict |
| 13:39:57 | <merijn> | kuribas: "b `seq` b" does literally nothing |
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| 13:40:28 | <kuribas> | ah right :) |
| 13:41:01 | <dminuoso> | kuribas: Consider what definedness means |
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| 13:44:19 | <dminuoso> | kuribas: The better comparison would be: |
| 13:44:52 | <dminuoso> | `if b then _|_ else _|_` vs `_|_` |
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| 13:49:02 | <dminuoso> | Or, equivalently, since you could write: |
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| 14:01:29 | <kuribas> | if _|_ then True else False |
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| 14:01:47 | <kuribas> | == _|_ |
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| 14:07:13 | <merijn> | kuribas: How is that different from skipping the if/then/else? |
| 14:07:28 | <kuribas> | merijn: it's not |
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| 14:24:38 | hackage | wai-extra 3.1.6 - Provides some basic WAI handlers and middleware. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/wai-extra-3.1.6 (MichaelSnoyman) |
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| 14:44:37 | hackage | wai 3.2.3 - Web Application Interface. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/wai-3.2.3 (MichaelSnoyman) |
| 14:45:38 | hackage | prime 0.1.1 - prime number tools https://hackage.haskell.org/package/prime-0.1.1 (jlamothe) |
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| 14:47:10 | <ArConan> | @src lookup |
| 14:47:10 | <lambdabot> | lookup _key [] = Nothing |
| 14:47:10 | <lambdabot> | lookup key ((x,y):xys) | key == x = Just y |
| 14:47:10 | <lambdabot> | | otherwise = lookup key xys |
| 14:48:28 | <geekosaur> | if you're using lookup a lot, you probably want Data.Map instead of lists |
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| 14:51:53 | <ephemient> | Data.Map if your keys are Ord, Data.HashMap if your keys are Hashable |
| 14:52:12 | <ephemient> | oh, and Data.IntMap if your keys are Int |
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| 14:53:37 | <merijn> | Where's this recent trend of every bringing up HashMap coming from, in my experience there's absolutely no need to bring unordered-containers into it? |
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| 14:54:49 | <mniip> | asymptotics is fake innit |
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| 14:56:22 | <merijn> | mniip: I don't see how bringing in extra external packages and Hashable for beginners is helpful, considering Data.Map has so far handled any workload I've thrown at it just fine |
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| 14:57:19 | <hyperisco> | starting to become wary of this memoisation idea because you start to have to care about object identity in a way never before |
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| 14:58:57 | <kritzefitz> | merijn, I think the most convincing argument I heard recently is that Hashable is less awkward to implement than Ord for types that don't have a natural ordering. I find that argument convincing enough to at last point out that HashMap exists. |
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| 14:59:50 | <merijn> | kritzefitz: There are very few types that have that issue and it'll naturally come out when someone's asking |
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| 15:00:06 | <merijn> | (since it Map won't compile without Ord) |
| 15:00:11 | ringzero | is now known as mnrmnaugh |
| 15:00:18 | <kuribas> | https://github.com/haskell-perf/dictionaries |
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| 15:01:57 | <merijn> | kuribas: Those numbers change nothing about my point of "containers and Map are perfectly fine for 90-95% of usecases" |
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| 15:02:27 | <merijn> | Not to mention the whole awkward "default usage of Hashable leaks space" issue that ghcide ran into :p |
| 15:03:16 | <kuribas> | merijn: yikes |
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| 15:06:05 | <merijn> | Oh, it cause a bunch of collisions ruining the performance too :p |
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| 15:07:27 | notzmv`` | is now known as notzmv |
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| 15:11:36 | <mniip> | IntMap is slower at lookup than Map? |
| 15:11:36 | <mniip> | wild |
| 15:11:56 | <b4er> | Is anyone attending the talk on Liquid Haskell by Andres Löh just now? |
| 15:12:13 | <hc> | liquid haskell? got a link to the talk? |
| 15:12:27 | <b4er> | Stupid registration system is slow as fuck, I paid my fee but haven't received a link :'( |
| 15:12:28 | hc | has only ever heard of 'liquid democracy' so far, but never understood the concept |
| 15:12:44 | <hc> | b4er: oh wait, that's talk with paywall? okay, then I can't watch it anyway ;/ |
| 15:13:00 | <b4er> | hc, you're probably too late (like I am): popl21.sigplan.org |
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| 15:14:24 | <merijn> | mniip: I dunno, I look at the implementation of lookup and I'm highly suspicious |
| 15:14:40 | <hc> | oh thanks! looks like the content *is* public |
| 15:14:54 | <merijn> | mniip: https://github.com/haskell-perf/dictionaries/blob/master/Time.hs#L297-L314 |
| 15:15:06 | <merijn> | mniip: I'm *far* from convinced that's a good benchmark |
| 15:15:09 | <b4er> | Yeah, it's what I thought hence I haven't registered until I figured out that it needs registration half an hour before it started |
| 15:15:15 | <ukari> | is it possiable to rewrite `foo :: Monad m => (a -> m (Maybe b)) -> Maybe a -> m (Maybe b)` with pointfree style and with out using `traverse`? I write a `f'` with same signature but not in pointfree syle, https://gist.github.com/ukari/c930afcb87509d167812c2ca218c1ad5 |
| 15:15:29 | <b4er> | Turns out co-events cost at least 10$ and like the idiot I am I paid it |
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| 15:17:41 | <ski> | ukari : you could use `sequence' .. |
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| 15:18:14 | <mniip> | ukari, well you will need something to commute m with Maybe |
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| 15:18:59 | <mniip> | :t maybe (pure Nothing) |
| 15:18:59 | <ephemient> | :t maybe (pure Nothing) |
| 15:19:01 | <lambdabot> | Applicative f => (a1 -> f (Maybe a2)) -> Maybe a1 -> f (Maybe a2) |
| 15:19:01 | <lambdabot> | Applicative f => (a1 -> f (Maybe a2)) -> Maybe a1 -> f (Maybe a2) |
| 15:19:08 | <ephemient> | lol |
| 15:19:25 | <ukari> | amazing |
| 15:20:01 | ski | notes the `foo' in the paste doesn't have the same signature as the one in the question |
| 15:21:01 | <ephemient> | yeah, if you wanted it for any Traversable and not just Maybe, obviously `maybe` wouldn't be the solution |
| 15:21:24 | <ukari> | if with Traversable, what is the alternative of maybe? |
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| 15:22:13 | <mniip> | I mean |
| 15:22:24 | <mniip> | :t \f -> maybe (pure Nothing) (fmap Just . f) |
| 15:22:26 | <lambdabot> | Applicative f => (a1 -> f a2) -> Maybe a1 -> f (Maybe a2) |
| 15:22:27 | <mniip> | is just traverse |
| 15:22:35 | <ski> | one of the methods of `Traversable' .. or something equivalent |
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| 15:22:44 | <ukari> | ... |
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| 15:23:39 | <ski> | so, `traverse',`mapM',`for',`forM',`sequenceA',`sequence' |
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| 15:25:55 | <ukari> | `instance Traversable Maybe where` , https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.14.1.0/docs/src/Data.Traversable.html#traverse |
| 15:28:19 | <ukari> | the implemation of traverse for Maybe is not pointfree. and Functor Maybe also manually do pattern matching for Maybe https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.14.1.0/docs/src/GHC.Base.html#fmap |
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| 15:29:24 | <ukari> | so is it possiable to use (=<<), (>>=), fmap to do it with pointfree style instead of `traverse`? |
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| 15:30:05 | <ephemient> | GHC.Base can't use `maybe` without a circular dependency |
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| 15:31:36 | <ski> | traverse f = maybe (pure Nothing) (fmap Just . f) |
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| 15:52:23 | <ukari> | thank you guys, and I write a brief summary about this discussion https://gist.github.com/ukari/c930afcb87509d167812c2ca218c1ad5#gistcomment-3598089 |
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| 15:55:18 | <ski> | argh, the `$'s .. |
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| 15:56:21 | <ski> | ukari : i'd rather use brackets ior `.' than `$', in `renderLoop' |
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| 15:56:53 | <ukari> | good idea |
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| 16:00:48 | <dolio> | merijn: It's only looking up things that are in the map, for one. |
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| 16:25:38 | hackage | equational-reasoning 0.6.0.4 - Proof assistant for Haskell using DataKinds & PolyKinds https://hackage.haskell.org/package/equational-reasoning-0.6.0.4 (HiromiIshii) |
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| 16:30:58 | <frankdmartinez> | I’m looking at the `sevensOnly` example in LYAH, “A Fistful Of Monads”. Can someone walk me thru how the result of `[7,17,27,37,47]` comes about? |
| 16:31:42 | <frankdmartinez> | I understand how `x` gets the initial value but don’t follow the application of `guard`. |
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| 16:34:42 | <ephemient> | @src guard |
| 16:34:42 | <lambdabot> | guard True = pure () |
| 16:34:42 | <lambdabot> | guard False = empty |
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| 16:35:06 | <ephemient> | > pure () :: [_] |
| 16:35:09 | <lambdabot> | [()] |
| 16:35:19 | <ephemient> | > empty :: [_] |
| 16:35:21 | <lambdabot> | [] |
| 16:35:45 | <ski> | frankdmartinez : do you understand how `do'-notation desugars to uses of `(>>=)' and `(>>)' ? |
| 16:36:04 | <xerox_> | > pure _ :: [_] |
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| 16:36:10 | <lambdabot> | mueval-core: Time limit exceeded |
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| 16:37:08 | <frankdmartinez> | ski: I think so. I am a little unsure as to the implementation of `(>>)` in `Monad List a`, though. |
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| 16:37:37 | <ski> | > concatMap (\x -> if '7' `elem` show x then [x] else []) [0 .. 49] |
| 16:37:39 | <lambdabot> | [7,17,27,37,47] |
| 16:37:41 | <ephemient> | a >> b = a >>= const b |
| 16:37:49 | <ski> | @src (>>) |
| 16:37:49 | <lambdabot> | m >> k = m >>= \_ -> k |
| 16:37:56 | <ephemient> | if you know how >>= works, you know how >> works |
| 16:38:23 | <ski> | do you understand how that use of `concatMap' works ? |
| 16:39:02 | <monochrom> | Alternatively, in the case of the [] monad, I think translating do-notation or >>= to list comprehension helps. |
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| 16:40:17 | <ephemient> | (LYAH does the translation right there, but just asserts it's the same) |
| 16:40:34 | <frankdmartinez> | I’ve seen different definitions of it in various places and don’t know which one is the “right” one. |
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| 16:41:19 | <frankdmartinez> | Sorry, ignore that last comment. |
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| 16:42:19 | <frankdmartinez> | monochrom: I do understand how it works from a list-comprehension perspective. The part I don’t understand, however, is how the `do`-notation version is the same. |
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| 16:43:04 | <frankdmartinez> | Wait ... |
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| 16:44:07 | <Guest_32> | Hi I am having some issues installing Haskell Platform on MacOS sytem |
| 16:44:35 | <frankdmartinez> | Yeah, not getting it. |
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| 16:44:58 | <frankdmartinez> | Guest_32: What have you tried? |
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| 16:47:42 | <Guest_32> | I tried using the ghcup, and copied the code to my terminal. This error keeps coming up Build failed with NonZeroExit 77 "./configure" ["--prefix=/Users/pr/.ghcup/ghc/8.8.4"] |
| 16:47:43 | <Guest_32> | Check the logs at "/Users/pr/.ghcup/logs" and the build directory "/var/folders/dc/2xhvn6nx3jb6ht6dcb5vlddr0000gn/T/ghcup-BdwZ5w" for more clues. |
| 16:47:43 | <Guest_32> | Make sure to clean up "/var/folders/dc/2xhvn6nx3jb6ht6dcb5vlddr0000gn/T/ghcup-BdwZ5w" afterwards. |
| 16:48:34 | <frankdmartinez> | Guest_32: What do the logs say and have you tried running the installation with `sudo`? |
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| 16:49:28 | <merijn> | You don't need sudo to install GHC and *definitely* not via ghcup |
| 16:49:52 | <merijn> | I'm putting 20 dollars on "didn't install commandline tools" |
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| 16:51:20 | <frankdmartinez> | So, `x` is the array of integers from 1 to 50, inclusive. Each element is then passed to a lambda which invokes `guard ('7' `elem` show thatElement) >> return thatElement` |
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| 16:53:13 | <frankdmartinez> | The invoked expression is the same as `guard ('7' `elem` show thatElement) >>= \_ return thatElement` … |
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| 16:53:42 | <frankdmartinez> | `\_ -> return thatElement`, I mean. |
| 16:53:48 | <ski> | yea |
| 16:53:58 | <ski> | (list, not array) |
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| 16:54:37 | <frankdmartinez> | ski: Sorry, yes, my Pyhton past showing thru there. |
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| 16:55:56 | <frankdmartinez> | The invoked expression is then the same as `concat (map (\_ -> return thatElement) (guard ('7' `elem` show thatElement)))` … |
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| 16:56:19 | <ski> | yes |
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| 16:58:41 | <frankdmartinez> | If the argument to `guard` is `True`, it “returns” a `[()]` value? And if the argument is `False` it “returns” a … ? I think this is the part where my brain shuts off. |
| 16:58:59 | <frankdmartinez> | `[]`? |
| 16:59:04 | <ski> | yes, an empty list |
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| 16:59:55 | <frankdmartinez> | Then, does not the lambda, `(\_ -> return thatElement)` still return `thatElement` when passed `[]`? |
| 16:59:58 | <ski> | > map (\n -> if n `mod` 3 == 0 || n `mod` 5 == 0 then [n] else []) [0 .. 15] |
| 17:00:01 | <lambdabot> | [[0],[],[],[3],[],[5],[6],[],[],[9],[10],[],[12],[],[],[15]] |
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| 17:00:14 | <ski> | > concat (map (\n -> if n `mod` 3 == 0 || n `mod` 5 == 0 then [n] else []) [0 .. 15]) |
| 17:00:20 | <lambdabot> | [0,3,5,6,9,10,12,15] |
| 17:00:26 | <ski> | > concatMap (\n -> if n `mod` 3 == 0 || n `mod` 5 == 0 then [n] else []) [0 .. 15] |
| 17:00:30 | <lambdabot> | [0,3,5,6,9,10,12,15] |
| 17:00:58 | <ski> | > concatMap (\n -> guard (n `mod` 3 == 0 || n `mod` 5 == 0)) [0 .. 15] |
| 17:01:00 | <lambdabot> | [(),(),(),(),(),(),(),()] |
| 17:01:09 | <frankdmartinez> | Wait … mapping any function, `f`, over an empty list results in an empty list! I think I got it ... |
| 17:01:14 | <ski> | > concatMap (\n -> guard (n `mod` 3 == 0 || n `mod` 5 == 0) >> return n) [0 .. 15] |
| 17:01:16 | <lambdabot> | [0,3,5,6,9,10,12,15] |
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| 17:01:36 | <ski> | yes |
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| 17:03:46 | <frankdmartinez> | If the guard argument were `True`, it would be a mapping over `[thatElement]`. We would then have concat over `[[thatElement1],[],[thatElement2],[], etc.]` and the result would be `[thatElement1] ++ [thatElement2] ++ etc.`. |
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| 17:05:20 | <frankdmartinez> | ski: (and monochrom et al.) Thanks, I got it now. |
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| 17:06:17 | <frankdmartinez> | Guest_32: Do you still have the installation problem? |
| 17:06:35 | <frankdmartinez> | Oh … you’re gone. |
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| 17:07:58 | <frankdmartinez> | Wait .. how does that result then get back into `x`? |
| 17:08:13 | <frankdmartinez> | No, nevermind. |
| 17:08:23 | <frankdmartinez> | I defintiely udnerstand it now. Thanks, all! |
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| 17:11:38 | hackage | tasty-sugar 1.0.1.0 - Tests defined by Search Using Golden Answer References https://hackage.haskell.org/package/tasty-sugar-1.0.1.0 (KevinQuick) |
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| 17:28:49 | <maerwald> | merijn: I still don't understand... ppl say mac is supposed to open a dialogue box automatically if CLI tools are not installed, but apparently that's only true sometimes? |
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| 17:30:25 | <geekosaur> | some, not all, of the programs in the CLI package are provided in the base system as stubs that display the dialog box |
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| 17:45:48 | <ephemient> | been a while since I had to deal with a mac but IIRC `xcode-select --install` would reliably do something |
| 17:47:02 | <ephemient> | but 🤷 I never had to use catalina or big sur |
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| 18:28:37 | hackage | cherry-core-alpha 0.4.0.0 - The core library for Cherry Haskell. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/cherry-core-alpha-0.4.0.0 (terezasokol) |
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| 18:41:01 | <merijn> | maerwald: Wizard's First Rule :p |
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| 18:41:38 | hackage | inline-c-cpp 0.4.0.3 - Lets you embed C++ code into Haskell. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/inline-c-cpp-0.4.0.3 (FrancescoMazzoli) |
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| 18:54:28 | <gentauro> | pls vote for `Safe` (if you are in the comitee) :) https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/blob/master/proposals/0380-ghc2021.rst#id3 |
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| 18:55:49 | <c_wraith> | why? |
| 18:56:39 | <merijn> | Safe is super niche, why should it be enabled by default? |
| 18:57:00 | <c_wraith> | as far as I know, Safe Haskell is basically seen as a failed design at this point |
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| 18:58:50 | <fendor> | A bit saddened lambdaCase didnt make it |
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| 19:00:08 | <frdg> | I don't understand what files I should be putting in the `library` portion of my .cabal file and what should go in the `executable` portion. Should modules that only contain helper functions go in Library? |
| 19:00:32 | <merijn> | frdg: "It Depends" |
| 19:00:41 | <merijn> | frdg: You don't *have* to have a library portion at all |
| 19:00:44 | <c_wraith> | frdg: for a first pass, don't have a library section |
| 19:01:13 | <merijn> | That said, if you're making multiple executables or have some API that's useful to others, structure things as a library with an executable that's just a thin wrapper |
| 19:01:38 | <c_wraith> | if you don't know why you need a library section, you don't :) |
| 19:02:05 | <ephemient> | I put everything except Main(main) in the library so it can be accessed from test |
| 19:02:20 | <frdg> | yes on my last project I just put everything in the executable part and it worked out. I am trying to have a nicer design this time though. |
| 19:02:42 | <glguy> | What problem did it cause for you that you didn't have a library part? |
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| 19:02:45 | <frdg> | but as you say c_wraith I dont know why I would need a library part |
| 19:02:48 | <ephemient> | you can even put main in the library too, just make your exe's Main.main = Lib.main |
| 19:02:57 | <merijn> | The definition of "nice design" is "what works well for your specific problem" |
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| 19:03:08 | <monochrom> | If you know why you have a library section, then that reason informs you which modules should belong to the library. I would think. |
| 19:03:47 | <ephemient> | have you never used the test-suite stanza of cabal? |
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| 19:03:57 | <gentauro> | `ForeignFunctionInterface` enabled by default? |
| 19:03:59 | <gentauro> | why? |
| 19:04:04 | <glguy> | gentauro: because it already is |
| 19:04:12 | <glguy> | and foreign function interface is a useful part of haskell |
| 19:04:15 | <merijn> | glguy: Not it's not? |
| 19:04:24 | <glguy> | merijn: yup, haskell2010 |
| 19:04:26 | <merijn> | Is it? :O |
| 19:04:29 | <merijn> | dammit |
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| 19:04:35 | <merijn> | Redundant pragmas in my modules >.< |
| 19:04:38 | <monochrom> | Even Haskell98 if you include the FFI addendum. |
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| 19:05:06 | <gentauro> | :o |
| 19:05:13 | <c_wraith> | it's not like ForeignFunctionInterface does much if you don't try to use it. Unlike some other extensions. :) |
| 19:05:38 | <c_wraith> | I still think OverloadedStrings is the worst extension. |
| 19:06:00 | <monochrom> | Then again GHC in Haskell98 mode requires FFI as an extension. |
| 19:06:25 | <ephemient> | hmm, of the extensions I use... LambdaCase, TransformListComp, TypeFamilies, ViewPatterns didn't make the cut, but TypeApplications did |
| 19:06:35 | <ephemient> | that is slightly surprising to me, but what do I know |
| 19:06:59 | <glguy> | If BlockArguments makes it in I'll be interested in using it |
| 19:07:08 | <monochrom> | So what you experienced is very likely that cabal-install old versions (pretty recent actually) put GHC in 98 mode by default. |
| 19:08:10 | <c_wraith> | ephemient: how is FlexibleContexts not your single most-used extension? |
| 19:08:14 | <ephemient> | I don't think I've noticed because hpack defaults to default-language: Haskell2010 and I've just been cargo-culting the .cabal around since then |
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| 19:08:40 | <ephemient> | I meant, ones I'd consider less universal. FlexibleContexts is universally accepted IMO |
| 19:09:00 | <merijn> | monochrom: *all* cabal-installs put GHC into 98 mode by default |
| 19:09:05 | <merijn> | For backwards compat reasons |
| 19:09:14 | <monochrom> | No. 3.x doesn't. |
| 19:09:16 | <merijn> | Because there was no "default-language" field at first |
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| 19:09:45 | <merijn> | monochrom: Newer cabal-versions might have a different default |
| 19:09:56 | <merijn> | monochrom: But that depends on the cabal file, not cabal-install version |
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| 19:10:05 | <monochrom> | Oh, that. Yes. |
| 19:10:16 | <merijn> | 3.x will *still* default to 98 on old cabal files, because there's no other option that doesn't break things |
| 19:10:36 | <ephemient> | cabal files don't explicitly declare cabal version (unless I missed a way to do so) |
| 19:10:41 | <merijn> | They do |
| 19:11:03 | <merijn> | ephemient: In fact, that's mandatory for all newer versions of the spec |
| 19:13:13 | <ephemient> | oh, there's a cabal-version field! don't know how I missed that, it *is* present in my cabal files |
| 19:13:38 | <ephemient> | I just never look at that part, I just copy and edit the rest of the file from existing projects |
| 19:14:21 | <merijn> | ephemient: https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/4899 |
| 19:14:24 | <ephemient> | so it would be safe to, say, switch default to Haskell2010 or GHC2021 if cabal-version: >=3.3 or something, right? |
| 19:14:30 | <merijn> | ephemient: That's a syntax error |
| 19:14:34 | <merijn> | See the post I linked |
| 19:14:56 | <merijn> | the >= syntax is deprecated (and has been for...a while :p) |
| 19:15:01 | <ephemient> | well, I get that. not literally >= there. but I dunno what the next version of cabal is going to be |
| 19:15:14 | <monochrom> | This is why the trick question [draw a square on a blackboard] "what do you see?" works. You answer "a square". The asker then teases you "don't you see the blackboard too? >:)" |
| 19:15:21 | <merijn> | ephemient: cabal-version declares a version of the CABAL spec your file adheres too |
| 19:15:40 | <merijn> | ephemient: Declaring a version newer than you need just means older cabal-install can't build your package |
| 19:15:43 | <ephemient> | oh, it doesn't align with the library version |
| 19:15:51 | <ephemient> | ? |
| 19:15:56 | <merijn> | ephemient: cabal-install supports older versions of the spec indefinitely |
| 19:15:59 | <ephemient> | in any case, whatever the current spec version is |
| 19:16:14 | <merijn> | ephemient: "current spec version" == unbuildable by any older cabal-install |
| 19:16:40 | <ephemient> | wouldn't it be safe to bump the default default-language in the next spec version? |
| 19:16:49 | <merijn> | There's no real point/benefit from increasing the cabal-version *unless* you need a field that isn't in the old version yet |
| 19:16:55 | <ephemient> | maintaining the behavior of old versions of course |
| 19:16:59 | <merijn> | ephemient: monochrom implied they already have |
| 19:17:23 | <ephemient> | which I thought you countered |
| 19:17:51 | <monochrom> | merijn is right. |
| 19:18:04 | <merijn> | ephemient: My points was that old cabal-version's will use the same default as now |
| 19:18:34 | <merijn> | I'm not sure what it is now, because apparently the default-language field has no docs :p |
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| 19:19:11 | <merijn> | Ah, in 3.4 it defaults to "the compiler's default" |
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| 19:19:27 | <merijn> | ephemient: https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/latest/file-format-changelog.html |
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| 19:22:33 | <exarkun> | is there a language extension for string literal concatenation? ie, so that `"x" "y"` is the same as `"xy"` |
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| 19:22:48 | <merijn> | exarkun: Depends, what do you want it for? |
| 19:23:10 | <exarkun> | splitting long strings across more than one line |
| 19:23:24 | <merijn> | exarkun: You can wrap literals around arbitrary whitespace using \ |
| 19:23:40 | <merijn> | > "hello \ \world" --little known feature! |
| 19:23:42 | <lambdabot> | "hello world" |
| 19:23:57 | <xerox_> | :o |
| 19:24:00 | <glguy> | exarkun: https://github.com/glguy/irc-core/blob/v2/src/Client/Commands/Channel.hs#L62-L72 |
| 19:24:18 | <exarkun> | huh |
| 19:24:20 | <merijn> | exarkun: This works fine with newlines too: https://github.com/merijn/Belewitte/blob/master/benchmark-analysis/ingest-src/Main.hs#L51-L53 |
| 19:24:36 | <exarkun> | okay, that's not bad I guess |
| 19:24:53 | <monochrom> | I use \ \ too to make multiple-line, nicely indented string literals. |
| 19:25:20 | <merijn> | monochrom: No one knows about it, because no one reads the report and none of the books seem to bother mentioning it >.> |
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| 19:26:02 | <ephemient> | there's also stuff like http://hackage.haskell.org/package/string-quote/docs/Data-String-Quote.html |
| 19:26:14 | <justsomeguy> | exarkun: I'm a fresh noob, but also had that question. I have some notes on different options here: https://hpfp.readthedocs.io/en/latest/03_-_strings/questions.html |
| 19:26:28 | <merijn> | ephemient: That requires TH, slayer of fast build times, though :p |
| 19:26:40 | <ephemient> | yep, and I've never used it myself |
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| 19:27:03 | <exarkun> | thanks all |
| 19:27:09 | justsomeguy | thought he would find Text.Heredoc really useful, but ends up using regular multi-line strings pretty much all the time, instead. |
| 19:27:14 | <ephemient> | I usually write unlines ⮒ [ "line" ⮒ , "line" ⮒ "... |
| 19:27:26 | <merijn> | exarkun: Oh, also |
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| 19:27:43 | <merijn> | mconcat followed by a list of strings across multiple lines works fairly well too |
| 19:28:09 | <ephemient> | hmm, does CPP accidentally join strings? |
| 19:28:22 | <merijn> | No |
| 19:28:45 | <merijn> | Well, maybe, GHC uses CPP in a super weird legacy and non-standard config |
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| 19:29:07 | <geekosaur> | which config predates string concat though |
| 19:29:23 | <ephemient> | https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/12516 ... apparently it varies, joy |
| 19:29:25 | <exarkun> | ephemient: what's the funny grit after `unlines` and before `[` |
| 19:29:28 | <geekosaur> | so arguably it is a bug if string concat works in -traditional mode |
| 19:29:31 | <ephemient> | newline |
| 19:29:37 | <exarkun> | ah |
| 19:30:03 | <glguy> | isn't string literal concatenation a C feature rather than a CPP feature? |
| 19:30:24 | <merijn> | yes |
| 19:30:27 | <geekosaur> | yes, but given cpp has to parsestrings, it has to know about it |
| 19:30:33 | <justsomeguy> | I'm not sure about C, but I've seen it in other languages. Python does implicit string concatenation like that, I think. ''print("one" "two" "three")'' becomes ''print("onetwothree")''. |
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| 19:30:45 | <exarkun> | yes, python has that feature |
| 19:30:56 | <exarkun> | (guess what, I am copying a test vector from a python program to a haskell program) |
| 19:31:15 | <ephemient> | it's a parser-level feature in Python; it ends up as a single string in the AST |
| 19:32:03 | justsomeguy | wonders if that's against the zen of python ~ "Explicit is better than implicit". |
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| 19:32:53 | <ephemient> | https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3126/ hysterical raisins. they discussed fixing it, but decided not to |
| 19:32:59 | <__monty__> | Shells also tend to concatenate juxtaposed string literals. |
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| 19:33:44 | <geekosaur> | shells have a very different notion of "string", though |
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| 19:34:15 | <geekosaur> | because any random string without shell metacharacters is also a string literal |
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| 19:50:38 | hackage | calamity 0.1.24.1 - A library for writing discord bots in haskell https://hackage.haskell.org/package/calamity-0.1.24.1 (nitros12) |
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| 20:05:53 | <pjb> | glguy: the C preprocessor doesn't concatenate the strings. It's a core C features. |
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| 20:10:13 | <geekosaur> | but early versions of gnu cpp did do the concatenation there, since it had to parse them anyway |
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| 20:11:53 | <geekosaur> | (I hope this isn't useful information, that should have stopped long before it would be relevant to anyone here) |
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| 20:14:08 | hackage | ktx-codec 0.0.1.2 - Khronos texture format https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ktx-codec-0.0.1.2 (AlexanderBondarenko) |
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| 20:30:04 | <koz_> | :t foldM |
| 20:30:06 | <lambdabot> | (Foldable t, Monad m) => (b -> a -> m b) -> b -> t a -> m b |
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| 20:43:32 | <exarkun> | Hm. Anyone know about `ctr` from crypto-api (or maybe this is just about CTR in general)? I expected chunking of data of data not to matter but it seems to matter. |
| 20:44:00 | <exarkun> | That is, if I have 16 bytes and I pass them in 4 at a time then I get different output than if I pass them in 8 at a time |
| 20:44:27 | <exarkun> | The counter/IV seems to increment per call instead of per block? |
| 20:44:41 | <exarkun> | Am I supposed to guarantee exactly a block of data at a time or something? |
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| 20:48:31 | <hc> | exarkun: for ctr in general you encrypt one block at a time and may never use the same ctr value twice for the same key or risk leakage of said key |
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| 20:49:13 | <exarkun> | Does "block" mean something special here? Or just "one arbitrarily sized piece of data"? |
| 20:49:28 | <hc> | the algorithm defines the block size |
| 20:50:04 | <hc> | CTR mode is used for block ciphers, and depending on the cipher you have different block sizes. AES has a block size of 16 byes, for example (regardless of the key length) |
| 20:50:28 | <hc> | my recommendation to you would be to use a higher level crypto API/lib if you plan to implement anything for production |
| 20:50:41 | <hc> | i.e., https://hackage.haskell.org/package/saltine |
| 20:51:39 | <exarkun> | I would like to be able to do that but I'm not yet sure if I can. At the moment I'm trying to understand an existing protocol (and codifying my understanding in a Haskell program as proof). |
| 20:51:50 | <hc> | oh okay :) |
| 20:52:34 | <hc> | so yeah, if you use a block cipher, the block size is fixed. If you have less bytes to encrypt than the block size, you will usually use some form of padding |
| 20:53:48 | <exarkun> | In reality, I have much more data than the block size. `ctr` happily takes any amount of data and gives me a result... is it doing something sensible that I just don't understand, or is it making up garbage because I'm misusing it? |
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| 20:54:01 | <hc> | let me have a look at that particular API |
| 20:54:06 | <dminuoso> | Say I have a bytestring `foo` that I want to conditionally append to a few times, like `mconcat ["foo", mwhen e "bar", mwhen f "quux"]` |
| 20:54:11 | <dminuoso> | Is there a more elegant way than that? |
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| 20:54:34 | <dminuoso> | (Context, Im constructin a query for postgresql-simple) |
| 20:54:35 | <hc> | exarkun: which function are you using? |
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| 20:55:15 | <exarkun> | hc: literally `ctr` - http://hackage.haskell.org/package/cipher-aes128-0.7.0.5/docs/Crypto-Cipher-AES128.html#v:ctr |
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| 20:56:10 | <exarkun> | hc: https://gist.github.com/exarkun/cb9281127eadae6875c24933c9c4c976 is the code . |
| 20:56:30 | <hc> | exarkun: okay, this is a typeclass; which cipher are you using? aes? |
| 20:56:41 | <exarkun> | ah sorry. yes, yes, aes 128 |
| 20:57:04 | <exarkun> | selected by the key type, I think? |
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| 20:57:14 | <exarkun> | http://hackage.haskell.org/package/cipher-aes128-0.7.0.5/docs/Crypto-Cipher-AES128.html#v:ctr |
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| 20:58:06 | <exarkun> | Elsewhere someone has suggested I have misunderstood what an IV for CTR mode is (in fact, not any IV at all but something else) |
| 20:58:08 | <hc> | I just glanced at that function and to me it looks that it automatically chains multiple calls to AES if you have more bytes than the block size and automatically increases the counter |
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| 20:59:32 | <hc> | (CTR just means counter: an integer that you increment for every block. You don't need to necessarily increment it but need to make absolutely sure that you encrypt no two blocks with the same CTR value for the same key) |
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| 21:00:41 | <hc> | so it's perfecly fine that you get a different result if you encrypt 16 bytes at once or split them into 2 times 8 bytes. I'd say the function you are using automatically takes care of padding as well and so can be used with any number of bytes |
| 21:02:27 | <exarkun> | Maybe it should be the case, then, that as long as I feed it a multiple of the block size of bytes, I should always get the same output? |
| 21:02:51 | <exarkun> | In general I see how it should not matter if I get the same ciphertext out but in this particular instance there is a canonical ciphertext that I have to produce |
| 21:02:58 | <exarkun> | (and my code does not produce it and I am trying to understand why) |
| 21:03:15 | <hc> | nah, the function automatically increases the counter if the input is larger than the block size |
| 21:03:37 | <exarkun> | A multiple instead of fewer bytes than the block size, I mean |
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| 21:04:06 | <hc> | yes, in that case you split the input into chunks the size of the block size, and encrypt each of these with a different ctr value |
| 21:04:17 | <hc> | the function does this for you |
| 21:04:59 | <exarkun> | And the counter is incremented by one for each block (also automatically for me, and the new value spit out with the result)? |
| 21:05:31 | <hc> | Ys |
| 21:05:33 | <hc> | Yes* |
| 21:06:23 | <exarkun> | Okay... not too far off how I thought it worked, I guess. I'll have to be more careful about padding, I guess. |
| 21:06:33 | <idnar> | I think https://github.com/TomMD/cipher-aes128/blob/0c3311cf9fc696c2bc22a890b409e5bf37541913/cbits/aes.c#L464 is the ultimate impl (or one of its optimized brethren) (did someone already link this?) |
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| 21:07:16 | <exarkun> | (also: experimentally verified that operating on a 32 byte string either whole or as two 16 byte strings does produce the same output) |
| 21:07:41 | <hc> | yay |
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| 21:10:33 | <freeman42x[m]> | any way to remove the need of an argument for the function g without using if then else? e w=g s where[s,l]=map read$lines w::[Double];g z|s*2<=l="false"|1>0="true" |
| 21:10:34 | <freeman42x[m]> | code golf question |
| 21:11:39 | <geekosaur> | case, but that would almost certainly be longer |
| 21:12:00 | <hyperisco> | :t bool |
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| 21:12:01 | <lambdabot> | a -> a -> Bool -> a |
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| 21:13:26 | <b4er> | I just watched the newest video by tweag.io on Haskell's whitespace and rae made a comment which caused me to have a closer look at do-notation: |
| 21:13:39 | <b4er> | > do {pure ()} "uuh" |
| 21:13:41 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 21:13:41 | <lambdabot> | Unexpected do block in function application: |
| 21:13:41 | <lambdabot> | do pure () |
| 21:14:30 | <hyperisco> | g doesn't use z |
| 21:14:47 | <geekosaur> | BlockArguments? |
| 21:14:50 | <b4er> | I'm not exactly sure if it's a "bug" (no one writes such code anyway) but the Haskell2010 report says that `do {e}` is the same as `e`? |
| 21:15:02 | <b4er> | > pure () "uuh" |
| 21:15:03 | <hyperisco> | is it supposed to be z*2 <= l ? |
| 21:15:05 | <lambdabot> | () |
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| 21:15:29 | <b4er> | geekosaur: No, it fails with regular runhaskell no extensions |
| 21:15:34 | <hyperisco> | b4er, pure = const in that example |
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| 21:16:32 | <b4er> | Yeah, exactly.. if `do {e} ≡ e` then that should be `()` |
| 21:16:50 | <hyperisco> | your example doesn't say "do" though |
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| 21:17:09 | <geekosaur> | see the start if this thread |
| 21:17:14 | <hyperisco> | oh, I am not sure what equality you are assuming |
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| 21:17:42 | <b4er> | The first example does, the second one should(?) be equivalent |
| 21:17:52 | <hyperisco> | I am not sure what the report says as to the relation… all I know is that the meaning of do {e} is e but I have no idea about the other way |
| 21:18:20 | <b4er> | hyperisco: https://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/haskell2010/haskellch3.html#x8-470003.14 |
| 21:18:23 | <geekosaur> | > do {pure ()} "oof" |
| 21:18:25 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 21:18:25 | <lambdabot> | Unexpected do block in function application: |
| 21:18:25 | <lambdabot> | do pure () |
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| 21:19:10 | <hyperisco> | > (do { pure () }) "oof" |
| 21:19:11 | <lambdabot> | () |
| 21:19:35 | <b4er> | And similarly with this: pastebin.com/WwEjY1Sf (that's how I stumbled on it originally and started looking a bit closer) |
| 21:19:57 | <geekosaur> | hm |
| 21:20:29 | <b4er> | Thing is, no one writes this sort of stuff ^^ |
| 21:20:33 | <hyperisco> | I am not sure what the issue is |
| 21:21:31 | <b4er> | It's not an issue but it seems to not align with the report, so I found it worth pointing out |
| 21:21:48 | <hyperisco> | I mean, I don't see what isn't agreeing with the report in your example |
| 21:22:44 | <b4er> | Oh, maybe I should go sleep then |
| 21:23:24 | <b4er> | But would it not be `do {pure ()} "foo" ≡ pure () "foo"` ? |
| 21:24:24 | <hyperisco> | would it be "do {pure ()}" ≡ "pure ()" ? |
| 21:24:47 | <hyperisco> | I think you have to go to the grammar and see what these tokens are |
| 21:25:22 | <geekosaur> | but the Report was not specified in term of a grammar or tokens |
| 21:25:40 | <geekosaur> | ghc is, but ghc's handling of this is th question |
| 21:25:55 | <hyperisco> | I don't k now what you mean |
| 21:25:55 | <b4er> | hyperisco, so `lexp` is not an expression? Then that'd make sense, yeah |
| 21:26:12 | <hyperisco> | what are they saying when they state ebnf-like grammar definitions? |
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| 21:26:37 | <geekosaur> | hm, right, sorry |
| 21:27:27 | geekosaur | sadly admits to mostly ignoring that as chicken scratch based on wht he's usually lookig for when spelunking the report |
| 21:27:45 | <exarkun> | idnar: Thanks for that link. Can't decide right now if I'm happy or sad that it's C instead of Haskell. Maybe neither, I guess, since my brain is fried from staring at hash output all day. |
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| 21:29:56 | <hyperisco> | b4er, at the top are the expression productions, and you can see it takes a few different ones to cover the complexity of Haskell syntax |
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| 21:30:19 | <hyperisco> | seems a do starts a lexp but not a fexp |
| 21:31:02 | <hyperisco> | you can change a fexp to a lexp using parentheses, through the aexp production |
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| 21:32:17 | <b4er> | hyperisco, true or with qop and that works too |
| 21:32:30 | <b4er> | > do {pure ()} $ "yay" |
| 21:32:32 | <lambdabot> | () |
| 21:35:31 | <hyperisco> | > const () do {"yay"} |
| 21:35:33 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 21:35:33 | <lambdabot> | Unexpected do block in function application: |
| 21:35:33 | <lambdabot> | do "yay" |
| 21:35:46 | <hyperisco> | I wonder if that works with block application |
| 21:35:55 | <hyperisco> | should |
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| 21:36:57 | <darccc-aster> | hello |
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| 21:38:18 | <b4er> | sure does ^^ |
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| 22:04:10 | <__monty__> | > pure () $ "yay" |
| 22:04:13 | <lambdabot> | () |
| 22:04:42 | <__monty__> | b4er: I don't really see what's weird here? It's basically saying desugaring do notation for a single expression is just the expression. |
| 22:05:12 | <__monty__> | This acting like const is because it's inferred the Reader monad is meant? |
| 22:07:16 | <b4er> | No, the weird thing/part that tripped me up is that `do{f} x` doesn't work but (eg.) `(do{f})x` does |
| 22:07:17 | <dminuoso> | __monty__: I think you misunderstand what this was about. |
| 22:08:07 | <monochrom> | The rule "do {e} = e" is applied after successful parsing, not before. |
| 22:08:53 | <monochrom> | "do {e} e2" fails parsing in the first place. THE END |
| 22:10:04 | <monochrom> | As usual, all confusions are caused by wrong premises. |
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| 22:56:08 | hackage | language-ats 1.7.10.3 - Parser and pretty-printer for ATS. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/language-ats-1.7.10.3 (vmchale) |
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| 23:29:31 | <aldessa> | hi how do i pass rts options globally in stack.yaml? |
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| 23:30:00 | <aldessa> | i'm doing under ghc-options:\n"$everything": "+RTS -A64M -RTS" and it doesn't work |
| 23:30:37 | <aldessa> | i can pass "$everything": "-j24" just fine though |
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All times are in UTC on 2021-01-18.