Logs on 2021-01-25 (freenode/#haskell)

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00:04:58	<mikevdg>	Party! I got it.
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00:08:11	<mikevdg>	I kind of feel like there should be a "Failable" type that's a Maybe but with a (localisable?) error message.
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00:10:10	<mikevdg>	Heh. Someone already made it.
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00:17:21	<Axman6>	or, just, Either?
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00:17:24	<Axman6>	and ExceptT?
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00:17:56	<koz_>	Possibly Validation too.
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00:18:04	<koz_>	Depending on whether you want _all_ errors or just the first.
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00:18:15	<Axman6>	yeah, if you are happy giving up Monad
00:18:17	<koz_>	(note - Validation is not a Monad)
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00:18:20	<koz_>	Yeah.
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00:18:27	Axman6	tag team high five
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00:18:46	<koz_>	Ow, that'd hurt.
00:18:49	<koz_>	Them axes.
00:18:51	<koz_>	For hands.
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00:19:15	<Axman6>	I'm AxMAN not AxHANDS. I _am_ an Axe
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00:23:26	<Axman6>	The 6 in my name refers to the type of tool steel I am made from, L6: "It is known for its high wear resistance and its toughness."
00:24:06	<Squarism>	has someone taken over your keyboard?
00:24:08	<Squarism>	=D
00:24:23	<MarcelineVQ>	it's a double entendre even (A)xman(6) A6
00:24:31	<Axman6>	Bloody set squares, always making wise cracks
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00:24:54	<Axman6>	MarcelineVQ: yeah I thought about using that, but A6 isn;t appropriate for making axes from :)
00:25:27	<Axman6>	and I don't think I'm very dimensionally stable
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00:25:40	<Axman6>	... anyone got any Haskell questions? :)
00:26:04	<MarcelineVQ>	how do I a haskell?
00:26:08	<koz_>	dolio or anyone else: I am trying to come up with a type 'Foo p a b' which is a free Profunctor and Category (and Functor and Applicative for (Foo p a)) irrespective of p. What would that look like?
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00:26:36	<koz_>	I can get free Profunctor and Category, and Functor follows from Profunctor, but Applicative is proving to be a stumbling block.
00:27:13	<koz_>	s/free// (kinda redundant)
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00:27:44	<ph88>	how is => called ?
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00:28:19	<koz_>	ph88: I use 'fat arrow'.
00:28:23	<Axman6>	koz_: data Foo p a b = Foo is pretty trivially an instance of whatever you weant :P
00:28:32	<ph88>	ok
00:28:38	<koz_>	Axman6: Yes, Proxy always works to be an anything.
00:28:42	<ph88>	do arrow and fat arrow have a type ?
00:28:47	<koz_>	I'd prefer something _non_-trivial.
00:29:02	<koz_>	:t (->)
00:29:02	<Axman6>	@kind (=>)
00:29:03	<lambdabot>	error: parse error on input ‘->’
00:29:04	<lambdabot>	error: parse error on input ‘=>’
00:29:08	<koz_>	LOL
00:29:14	<Axman6>	% :kind (=>)
00:29:21	<Axman6>	:(
00:29:29	<koz_>	% :k (=>)
00:29:37	<koz_>	% :kind (->)
00:29:44	<Axman6>	Why have you foresaken me, yahb
00:29:44	<hpc>	i shudder to imagine what this channel could do with first-class (=>)
00:29:45	<koz_>	Is yahb dead?
00:29:59	<Axman6>	appears so, who runs yahb?
00:29:59	<koz_>	hpc: You can look at Edward's constraints library for a preview.
00:30:22	<hpc>	hah, figures
00:30:31	<Axman6>	ph88: (=>) has kind (=>) :: Constraint -> Type -> Type
00:30:48	<ph88>	thanks
00:30:50	<Axman6>	(uh, I think... it may actually be more complicated than that)
00:31:13	<ph88>	what kind has -> have ?
00:31:18	<hpc>	:k (->)
00:31:19	<lambdabot>	* -> * -> *
00:31:30	<ph88>	thanks !
00:31:35	<koz_>	Or 'Type -> Type -> Type' if you wanna be all modern.
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00:31:40	<hpc>	it's gotten pretty boring with all the kind-level work lately
00:31:47	<koz_>	In fact, it's the canonical profunctor.
00:31:52	<ph88>	:k (=>)
00:31:54	<lambdabot>	error: parse error on input ‘=>’
00:32:06	<koz_>	One does not simply... ask for the kind of the fat arrow.
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00:33:58	<ph88>	is that like .. never ask a woman for her weight ?
00:35:06	<hpc>	never ask a program if it can terminate when given itself as input
00:35:21	<koz_>	hpc: Alan Turing will punch you in the face.
00:36:00	<Axman6>	koz_: every time you say fat arrows it reminds me of the fat dogs in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LocLbhDOVGQ
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00:36:28	<koz_>	LOL
00:36:36	<MarcelineVQ>	I think of rollerskating bald guys
00:36:43	<hpc>	that channel is amazing
00:37:05	<Axman6>	his Lette Jam video is a work of art
00:37:10	<Axman6>	Letter*
00:38:21	<Axman6>	Apparently he also spends a lot of time correcting the rules on other review channels etc., so many people get them wrong
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01:37:37	hackage	tasty-hedgehog 1.0.1.0 - Integration for tasty and hedgehog. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/tasty-hedgehog-1.0.1.0 (GeorgeWilson)
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02:24:38	hackage	risc386 0.0.20210125 - Reduced instruction set i386 simulator https://hackage.haskell.org/package/risc386-0.0.20210125 (AndreasAbel)
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02:42:31	<zebrag>	It seems there is an "obvious" relation between DSL, parsers, and free monads. Any introductory article on the subject? Like your DSL is described by a functor, and thanks to free monads, you get a parser for your language. Isn't that awesome?
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02:43:21	<zebrag>	I'm looking for an introductory article on the subject*
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02:45:48	<zebrag>	It seems I'm already finding answers. How useful asking questions is.
02:45:57	<edrx>	hi! I am trying to install cabal from git on a Debian box... this is my n-th attempt, and what I did this time was roughly this: I install an (old) cabal-install with "sudo apt-get install cabal-install", then I cloned https://github.com/haskell/cabal/ and compiled it, with
02:46:24	<edrx>	(cd Cabal; cabal install); (cd cabal-install; cabal install)
02:47:00	<edrx>	then I did "sudo apt-get remove cabal-install".
02:47:24	<sclv>	cabal won’t install the binary into your bin
02:47:31	<edrx>	after that "cabal update" and "cabal install ghc" worked
02:47:45	<edrx>	sclv: I have this: export PATH=$HOME/.cabal/bin:$PATH
02:47:55	<sclv>	Cool
02:48:28	<edrx>	...but with this warning: "Warning: installdir is not defined. Set it in your cabal config file or use --installdir=<path>. Using default installdir: "/home/edrx/.cabal/bin""
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02:50:23	<edrx>	I took a look at the file ~/.cabal/config but I am not sure of what to change yet, so for the moment I ignored the warning, as it was just a warning...
02:51:01	<sclv>	it tells
02:51:28	<sclv>	it tells you that if it isn’t set it installs there. nothing to worry about
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02:51:58	<edrx>	then I did "cabal install --lib ghc" and "cabal install ghc", without knowing well what I was doing, and I got this error: "cabal: The program 'ghc' version >=7.0.1 is required but it could not be found."
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02:52:51	<edrx>	should I redo everything but now doing the "sudo apt-get remove cabal-install ghc" one step earlier?
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02:54:17	<dcoutts>	edrx: you cannot install ghc via cabal. (Saying cabal install ghc refers to rgw ghc library, which comes with ghc already)
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02:54:47	<dcoutts>	erm typo, rgw/the
02:54:54	<edrx>	dcoutts: ouch! how do I install a recent ghc?
02:55:03	<edrx>	the one in debian is old...
02:56:13	<koz_>	edrx: ghcup is the right way.
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02:57:07	<edrx>	this, right? https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/
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03:00:39	<koz_>	That.
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04:04:35	<texasmynsted>	Looks like
04:05:06	<texasmynsted>	Graham Hutton has a new video haskell class soon. I am excited but can't find more information about it.
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04:05:27	<texasmynsted>	anybody know anything about this?
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04:13:30	<zebrag>	`data Free f a = Free (f (Free f a)) \| Return a`. First occurrence of `Free` is a type constructor; Second is a data constructor; Third is a type constructor. Right?
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04:14:22	<vappend>	Yes!
04:14:30	<zebrag>	;)
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04:15:09	<vappend>	It's unfortunate, maybe that there isn't a typographical distinction between the tokens
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04:15:43	<zebrag>	I was thinking it might be easier with gadt notation
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04:16:37	<Axman6>	data Free f a = Free :: f (Free f a) -> Free f a; Return :: a -> Free f a
04:16:55	<zebrag>	thanks
04:17:20	<Axman6>	uh, s/=/where
04:17:43	<zebrag>	right
04:17:51	<vappend>	It's perhaps slightly clearer that way :-)
04:18:05	<zebrag>	I really prefer it
04:18:16	<zebrag>	But the calssical way is shorter
04:18:18	<vappend>	At least there is a typographical sign for the switch between the data-constructor world (before the ::) and the world of types.
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04:22:37	hackage	rio 0.1.20.0 - A standard library for Haskell https://hackage.haskell.org/package/rio-0.1.20.0 (MichaelSnoyman)
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04:36:29	<zebrag>	Apparently there is an obvious way to make `data Free f a = Free (f (Free f a)) \| Return a` an instance of `monad`. But my ghci is complaining because it wants an instance of `Applicative`.
04:38:18	<zebrag>	And we have `f` is a functor
04:38:44	<Axman6>	instance Functor f => Applicative (Free f) where pure = return; mf <> ma = mf >>= \f -> f <> ma
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04:39:01	<Axman6>	which uses the Monad instance
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04:40:13	<zebrag>	but we don't have yet that it is a monad?
04:40:27	<Axman6>	that's fine though
04:40:49	<Axman6>	there's nothing stopping the Applicative instance using the Monad instance, as long as both exist
04:42:59	<zebrag>	My ghci is not happy
04:43:23	<Axman6>	you probably can't do it in GHCI, at least not without defining it inside :{ and :}
04:43:26	<zebrag>	okay. ahng on
04:43:53	<zebrag>	Couldn't match expected type ‘Free f (a -> b)’
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04:44:15	<Axman6>	uh, should be mf >>= \f -> f <$> ma
04:45:15	<zebrag>	`Could not deduce (Monad (Free f)) arising from a use of ‘>>=’`
04:45:34	<Axman6>	this is definitely best defined in a file, not GHCi
04:46:16	<zebrag>	But apparently, my Haskell doesn't know it's a monad
04:47:08	<Axman6>	trying to debug your code remotely without seeing exactly what you've done isn't particularly easy
04:48:43	<zebrag>	Hum, sorry about that. There's only one line: `data Free f a = Free (f (Free f a)) \| Return a`
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04:49:10	<Axman6>	nothing about that line mentions Monad or Applicative
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04:50:52	<zebrag>	No, I want to make it an applicative. I already have the recipe to make it a monad: https://paste.debian.net/1182648/; But my compiler doesn't accept it because it says it's not an applicative
04:51:02	<zebrag>	(https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/242795/what-is-the-free-monad-interpreter-pattern)
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04:53:07	<zebrag>	And functor comes for free thanks to DeriveFunctor
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04:54:28	<Axman6>	if you are writing this in a file, then the definition of Applicative above will work, as long as the Monad instance is also definied in the same file
04:54:48	<zebrag>	okay, I understand, makes sense
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05:03:08	hackage	goatee 0.4.0 - A monadic take on a 2,500-year-old board game - library. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/goatee-0.4.0 (khumba)
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05:04:08	hackage	goatee-gtk 0.4.0 - A monadic take on a 2,500-year-old board game - GTK+ UI. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/goatee-gtk-0.4.0 (khumba)
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05:05:00	<zebrag>	I will have to spend more time on that DSL, Free Monad thing ;)
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05:05:22	<Guest_28>	i'm currently trying to download haskell on my mac using terminal. it currently says "Unknown architecture: arm64" does anyone know what the issue could be?
05:05:44	<Axman6>	I don't think we have a released M1 version of GHC yet
05:06:23	<Guest_28>	do you happen to know how i'd be able to run haskell/do things in haskell then?
05:06:25	<Guest_28>	it's ok if not
05:06:49	<dolio>	I've heard the x86 version works.
05:06:51	<glguy>	Doesn't the M1 stuff have a Rosetta thing for running x86_64?
05:06:57	<Axman6>	the amd64 version should run under rosetta 2
05:07:17	<Axman6>	https://isapplesiliconready.com/app/Haskell
05:07:29	<Axman6>	hmm, actuallt that's not the right thing
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05:08:13	<Guest_28>	don't worry too much about it - i have class tomorrow and the prof might be able to help me with it
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05:08:21	<Guest_28>	thanks for the input though!
05:08:42	<Axman6>	bgamari: is https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/18664 the most up to date info on GHC on Apple ARM hardware?
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05:09:42	<Axman6>	(also angerman - we all know Ben loves Apple)
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05:10:54	<angerman>	yea, rosetta will be fine. native is sadly busted pretty badly due to some historical design choices in GHC.
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05:11:25	<angerman>	I'm trying to rectify this for some 8.10.4 release, 9.2 should be much better from a design perspective, and we've got an native codegen there likely as well.
05:11:45	<Axman6>	Those damn hysterical raisins
05:11:56	<Axman6>	angerman: <3
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05:14:31	<Axman6>	angerman: unrelated question, but what's stopping the NGC(s) from having support for vector types?
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05:15:09	<Axman6>	NCG(s)*
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05:15:50	<angerman>	nothing in principle. Just someone putting in the effort. With 9.2 having better native types all the way down to the codegen, someone would just need to try this. Will probably hit some roadbumps along the way though.
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07:46:02	<DamienCassou>	hi
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07:49:44	<DamienCassou>	I'm learning haskell and created a new project with 'stack new'. I also added `tasty`, `tasty-hspec` to my tests/myproject-test/dependencies entry in package.yaml. `stack test` runs fine. Nevertheless, lsp complains that "Could not load module ‘Test.Tasty’. It is a member of the hidden package ‘tasty-1.2.3’."
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08:00:53	<dminuoso>	DamienCassou: Mmm, you could also try #haskell-ide-engine
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08:04:12	<dminuoso>	DamienCassou: I think you have to set up a multi component cradle for that
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08:04:35	<dminuoso>	Because tests are, in fact, separate components
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08:05:35	<dminuoso>	So hls needs to be aware that your project has multiple components, and switch between them depending on which file you have opened.
08:06:09	<DamienCassou>	thank you dminuoso
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08:07:31	<dminuoso>	DamienCassou: https://github.com/mpickering/hie-bios#stack if you scroll a bit down, you can find a sample multi component configuration for stack
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08:09:33	<DamienCassou>	thank you
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08:51:07	hackage	seclib 1.1.0.3 - A simple library for static information-flow security in Haskell https://hackage.haskell.org/package/seclib-1.1.0.3 (AlejandroRusso)
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08:56:22	<hc>	hmm, that's an interesting library :)
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09:02:41	<gentauro>	AlejandroRusso <3
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10:14:38	hackage	higgledy 0.4.0.0 - Partial types as a type constructor. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/higgledy-0.4.0.0 (i_am_tom)
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10:19:37	hackage	finite 1.4.1.1 - Finite ranges via types https://hackage.haskell.org/package/finite-1.4.1.1 (kleinreact)
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10:29:20	<dminuoso>	Why is cabal failing here? https://gist.github.com/dminuoso/6431ec084c895893b093ab4d313c15f4
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10:29:44	<dminuoso>	I dont even understand why `cabal` has a user goal "freyja"
10:29:51	<dminuoso>	When the build target is `ip-qq`
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10:35:06	<dminuoso>	Even `cabal build ip-qq/Net/QQ.hs` fails similarly
10:36:45	<sclv>	cabal.project file
10:36:52	<sclv>	in a superdir
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10:38:13	<dminuoso>	Yes I have that, but that controls packages, adds a constraint and enables tests.
10:38:20	<dminuoso>	That shouldn't affect the build target, should it?
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11:14:38	<SevenK>	has anyone used the turtle library?
11:14:56	<maerwald>	no
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11:17:34	<dminuoso>	Yes, someone has.
11:18:13	<SevenK>	Someone somewhere
11:18:16	<SevenK>	Ill find em
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11:39:08	hackage	vector-circular 0.1.3 - circular vectors https://hackage.haskell.org/package/vector-circular-0.1.3 (DavidHimmelstrup)
11:40:07	hackage	lsp-test 0.12.0.0 - Functional test framework for LSP servers. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/lsp-test-0.12.0.0 (luke_)
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11:45:38	hackage	spdx-license 0.1.1 - SPDX license templates https://hackage.haskell.org/package/spdx-license-0.1.1 (Poscat)
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11:54:20	<dminuoso>	aveltras: Depends on the exact goals.
11:54:54	<aveltras>	i've gone down the string concatenating path
11:55:09	<dminuoso>	aveltras: There's broadly 4 categories available. 1st is just manual string concatenation, which can be unwieldy for non-trivial amounts of code. Then you could use prettyprinter/pretty/[equivalent] for controlling the structure better.
11:55:23	<aveltras>	im parsing a directory of svg files and generates a source file containing document declaration from svg-tree
11:55:29	<dminuoso>	aveltras: Then you can use TH if you dont need to generate entire modules (or QQ as a more constrained form of TH)
11:55:44	<dminuoso>	Or, if you want the safety of Haskell, with automatic pretty printing, I found haskell-src-exts to be a lovely package
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11:56:01	<dminuoso>	(Together with haskell-src-exts-simple and haskell-src-exts-qq it's very fun to generate entire modules with)
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12:03:08	hackage	finite 1.4.1.2 - Finite ranges via types https://hackage.haskell.org/package/finite-1.4.1.2 (kleinreact)
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12:12:16	<aveltras>	is it a problem to have a sum types with nearly 2000 constructors ? (performance wise or something like that) ?
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12:12:26	<merijn>	aveltras: Well, that depends
12:12:40	<merijn>	aveltras: Do you hate yourself and love waiting hours for your code to compile?
12:12:54	<aveltras>	im wondering the best way to do it
12:12:55	dminuoso	has an ADT with about 10,000 constructors..
12:13:06	<aveltras>	i have a directory of svg
12:13:06	<merijn>	dminuoso: And I'm sure you love recompiling that module
12:13:10	<aveltras>	~1700
12:13:19	<aveltras>	and 4 sizes for each
12:13:20	<dminuoso>	merijn: It's not too bad, while Im compiling I have -O0 anyway
12:13:21	<aveltras>	so x4
12:13:27	<dminuoso>	*while Im working on it
12:13:50	<dminuoso>	I mean since its statically generated, it doesnt happen often anyway
12:13:51	<aveltras>	i want the end user to choose which icon he wants to use only by giving a data constructor like Icon4K32 for example
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12:14:25	<aveltras>	i also need to generate code to produce svg files with lucid so it would be a big pattern match function
12:14:26	<dminuoso>	aveltras: Question, is this code path anywhere in a hot spot?
12:14:38	<dminuoso>	As in, do you expect discrimination of that value to happen in a tight loop?
12:15:16	<aveltras>	it would be used anytime the user selects a component to display which needs an icon so several times per web request i guess
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12:16:04	<aveltras>	the other thing i can think of is to have some typeclasse Icon a and implement it for each icon
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12:16:25	<aveltras>	not sure it's a lot different performance wise, that s why im asking if anyone has an idea of what would be the best
12:16:27	<dminuoso>	aveltras: What exactly does the ADT encode here?
12:16:53	<aveltras>	only which icon to use
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12:17:24	<aveltras>	i think it would be something like data Icon = Icon IconType IconSize
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12:17:33	<aveltras>	when IconType has 1700 constructors
12:17:36	<aveltras>	and icon Size 4
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12:17:50	<merijn>	Why are there 1700 icon types?!
12:18:00	<aveltras>	because there are 1700 icons in the svg set
12:18:03	<dminuoso>	And why is it that fix?
12:18:07	<dminuoso>	I'd just encode this as a runtime value..
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12:18:27	<aveltras>	but then i have to package the icon files which the lib i guess
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12:18:47	<aveltras>	with*
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12:18:56	<dminuoso>	aveltras: You can still load them into the binary if you want, and make it a lookup in a map
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12:19:21	<dminuoso>	or you put them in data-files
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12:19:40	<dminuoso>	An ADT seems just unwise either way
12:19:49	<aveltras>	ye but then i ll need some kind of IO treatment or something user side
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12:20:11	<dminuoso>	What do you need IO for?
12:20:33	<dminuoso>	If you have a `Map Text SVG`, then you can do the lookup without IO.
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12:21:30	<aveltras>	ye but then you have to keep 1700 icons x 4 in memory even if using only 10 (i know im annoying here :))
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12:23:21	<dminuoso>	Well, your ADT solution does not help here either, does it?
12:23:54	<dminuoso>	The SVG data would just not reside on the heap, but rather in the executable itself (but that too lives in memory)
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12:24:28	<aveltras>	i dont really need all the svg data, i want to get all i need to render the icons with lucid (mainly the paths of the svg)
12:24:38	<aveltras>	for example
12:24:40	<aveltras>	svg_ [focusable_ "false", preserveAspectRatio_ "xMidYMid meet", style_ "will-change: transform;", xmlns_ "http://www.w3.org/2000/svg", aria_ "hidden" "true", class_ "bx--navigation-menu-panel-collapse-icon", width_ "20", height_ "20", viewBox_ "0 0 32 32"] $ path_ [d_ "M24 9.4L22.6 8 16 14.6 9.4 8 8 9.4 14.6 16 8 22.6 9.4 24 16 17.4 22.6 24 24 22.6 17.4 16 24 9.4z"]
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12:25:03	<aveltras>	the goal is to have the path, viewbox and size inferred from the choosen icon
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12:25:14	<aveltras>	so there's no need to have svg files at runtime
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12:25:37	<aveltras>	and hopefully, icons not used wont be included in the binary nor in memory
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12:26:58	<dminuoso>	So have a simple `lookup :: Text -> IO SVG` function?
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12:27:07	<dminuoso>	You wont get around the IO either way, if you want to keep the actual SVG as a file
12:27:12	<aveltras>	i dont
12:27:20	<dminuoso>	Hold on
12:27:24	<dminuoso>	13:25:03 aveltras \| the goal is to have the path, viewbox and size inferred from the choosen icon
12:27:37	<aveltras>	what i have in mind right now are two possibilites
12:27:37	<dminuoso>	Your ADT solution still keeps those paths in memory.
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12:27:59	<aveltras>	yes but only of those icons used no ?
12:28:18	<aveltras>	not with the adt yes
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12:28:58	<aveltras>	i was also thinking of something like
12:29:02	<aveltras>	https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/1mZV1OLG/
12:29:39	<dminuoso>	aveltras: The path will still be in memory for all icons.
12:29:57	<dminuoso>	Just because you keep it in a method, does not make it disappear.
12:30:15	<aveltras>	doesn't ghc trim unused files ?
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12:30:26	<dminuoso>	files?
12:30:29	<aveltras>	with the typeclass solution, id have each icon in a distinct source file
12:30:52	<aveltras>	so when you specify an icon you just need to include it and the file containing the typeclass
12:31:15	<aveltras>	and when generating the svg markup with lucid i only need to now of the Icon class
12:31:45	<aveltras>	i get why the adt is bad relating to having all in memory but i think the typeclass would work fine here
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12:32:38	<dminuoso>	Ah I see.
12:32:52	<dminuoso>	Well, you need IO either way since you need to fetch the SVG from disk anyhow.
12:33:13	<dminuoso>	So using Text, and testing for presence as just looking for whether the file exists, seems sensible
12:33:23	<dminuoso>	Your compile times will thank you
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12:34:51	<dminuoso>	in particular, you dont even need to look whether the file exists. Just read it, and if you can't, then well you dont have an icon
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12:35:12	<dminuoso>	(You have that issue even with your ADT, because the ADT cant guarantee the file is actually present and readable on the file system)
12:35:23	<dminuoso>	So you might as well give up on your attempt
12:35:23	<aveltras>	i intended to generate the haskell source files by using a script during development
12:35:33	<aveltras>	so there are no mention of svg files in the final code
12:35:58	<aveltras>	in the end i just have svg attributes that i know can be turned into valid svg path
12:37:06	<aveltras>	anyway, i think im abusing your patience here :)
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12:37:22	<aveltras>	i'll go down the typeclass path and report if that goes awfully wrong
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12:37:50	<dminuoso>	aveltras: Like I said. Since you have to use IO to read the SVG from disk, you must embrace failure to load the SVG anyway. The ADT will not absolve you.
12:38:07	<aveltras>	i dont intend to use an adt anymore
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12:39:36	<aveltras>	to sum up what i envision
12:39:40	<aveltras>	https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/D2Xo8XwX/
12:40:32	<dminuoso>	Seems fine
12:40:37	<aveltras>	so the svgs will be inlined in the html output and not referenced anywhere
12:41:09	<aveltras>	bonus point since user will be able to extend the icon set (obviously none will do it :) )
12:42:03	<dminuoso>	Im not sure whether that will keep the unnused SvgInfo out of memory
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12:42:55	<aveltras>	that would mean that ghc keeps data from unused files from libraries
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12:43:16	<dminuoso>	The problem is typeclasses have an open world assumption
12:43:42	<dminuoso>	Not saying they are definitely kept, just not sure here.
12:44:04	<aveltras>	ye, not sure how i'll be able to witness this, i'll just experiment :)
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12:44:34	<dminuoso>	Consider the potential presence of a primitive like: enumerate :: (forall a. Icon a => a) -> [SvgInfo]
12:44:48	<dminuoso>	Or uhh
12:44:51	<dminuoso>	No that's silly
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14:47:56	<frdg>	I just switched my linux OS and can't compile one of my haskell projects. The error hask to do with parsing the stack.yaml file but this file is empty. I am able to compile at least two of my other haskell projects. http://dpaste.com/7PB8Z68QU
14:50:06	<lyxia>	it's not supposed to be empty
14:50:37	<frdg>	oh
14:51:11	<frdg>	Ok I can just make it a new project and copy the source over then
14:51:41	<lyxia>	isn't that more work than just filling out the stack.yaml?
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14:52:54	<frdg>	I bet other stuff is messed up also though. I used btrfs send/recieve to bring over a snapshot and so much stuff got messed up. I have all the source backed up properly though.
14:53:56	<lyxia>	uhoh
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14:58:07	hackage	atp 0.1.0.0 - Interface to automated theorem provers https://hackage.haskell.org/package/atp-0.1.0.0 (EK)
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15:26:45	<aveltras>	is there a way to automatically get the code for constructing an already built data structure ? I have the result of type https://hackage.haskell.org/package/reanimate-svg-0.13.0.0/docs/Graphics-SvgTree-Types.html#t:Document coming from parsing a file and i'd like to generate an haskell source file with a function to build the document parsed
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15:38:30	<lortabac>	aveltras: most Show instances produce output that can be used to construct the value that has been showed
15:39:26	<lortabac>	I think this property should hold at least for the most common types
15:40:05	<aveltras>	i tried sooner today but all data constructors didn't seem available, didn't proceed further but i should check again then
15:40:09	<aveltras>	i'll report
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15:51:37	hackage	libmpd 0.10.0.0 - An MPD client library. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/libmpd-0.10.0.0 (psibi)
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16:02:30	<aveltras>	this works when importing all the missing constructors from various packages :)
16:03:54	<aveltras>	does anyone know if having many small files (1000+) is better for development than having one huge file ? ghcid and lsp chokes and ram consumption goes through the rough with one file
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16:04:42	<vikid>	does anyone know how to install haskell-platform on Manjaro?
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16:15:51	<lortabac>	what is the simplest way to get the day and the month from a UTCTime?
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16:18:28	<Athas>	There wouldn't happen to be a friendly hacker who has a Megaparsec definition for parsing floating-point literals, including scientific and hexadecimal notation?
16:18:59	<Taneb>	:t toGregorian . utctDay
16:19:01	<lambdabot>	error:
16:19:01	<lambdabot>	Variable not in scope: toGregorian :: b0 -> c
16:19:01	<lambdabot>	error:
16:19:12	<Taneb>	lortabac: I think that would work if things were in scope
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16:19:32	<kw>	Is there a way to make a quantified constraint like `forall x. Coercible x (m x)` not fail with "Couldn't match representation type of x with that of 'm x'" when used?
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16:20:08	<lortabac>	Taneb: thanks this is what I was looking for. For some reason missed it when searching in the haddocks
16:22:37	<merijn>	lortabac: The time docs are a bit messy, sadly
16:23:03	<merijn>	lortabac: Alternatively, you might wanna convert your UTCTime to a ZonedTime before trying to get a date out
16:23:28	<merijn>	Athas: There is no hexFloat support for megaparsec yet, afaik
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16:24:07	<merijn>	Athas: There's an MR for a bug report I filed about the lack of hexfloat parsing in GHC's Numeric module, but it's not released atm
16:24:20	<merijn>	Athas: You can maybe cannibalise that code to make your own
16:24:23	<Athas>	Oh well, I guess I can write it myself, yet again...
16:24:30	<Athas>	I already have a definition in my Alex-based lexer.
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16:24:46	<Athas>	But I'm migrating parts of it to Megaparsec.
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16:25:57	<merijn>	Athas: Oh, if you've implemented that before, maybe help review that MR? There's a lack of people who feel qualified to look at it, so I think only carter has
16:26:19	<carter>	Which mr ?
16:26:29	<carter>	Oh yeah. I need to read it again
16:27:05	<Athas>	I can give it a shot, but I would distrust anyone who claims to feel comfortable with hexadecimal float literals.
16:27:11	<merijn>	Athas: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/merge_requests/268
16:27:42	<merijn>	Athas: Hence why more reviewers would be good ;)
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16:30:32	<carter>	They’re the only option that’s both succinct and exact ;)
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16:37:27	<maerwald>	lortabac: https://i.imgur.com/g6rTcZK.png
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16:38:12	<lortabac>	maerwald: thanks, this should probably be in the docs (if it isn't)
16:38:14	<maerwald>	not sure that helps in this case, but it's nice
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16:39:40	<merijn>	maerwald: That's great, that should go into the docs :p
16:39:51	<merijn>	Minus maybe the comments about DiffTime, which IMO has it's uses
16:40:01	<merijn>	Oh, wait
16:40:02	<maerwald>	I don't remember who made it... it was someone in this channel though, I think
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16:40:10	<merijn>	I think I'm thinking of NominalDiffTime
16:40:15	<merijn>	Not sure what DiffTime is, then
16:40:46	<merijn>	I can make a vector version of that, I guess
16:40:54	<maerwald>	I guess the only way to make it happen is to ping Uniaika
16:41:14	<merijn>	maerwald: Or just, you know, a PR :p
16:41:17	<Uniaika>	👋
16:41:44	<maerwald>	merijn: I can barely type lol :p
16:41:56	<merijn>	maerwald: I didn't mean you, specifically ;)
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16:42:57	<Uniaika>	I can be maerwald's hands for this job
16:43:18	<merijn>	lortabac: Also, I missed where you're getting the UTCTime from, but insert my cautionary warning/rant about the impossibility of storing future dates/times here
16:43:32	<merijn>	(in UTCTIme, that is)
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16:46:20	<lortabac>	merijn: in my case UTCTime is the format used by a third-party API to represent dates
16:46:29	<lortabac>	I need to convert it to proper dates internally
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16:46:43	<maerwald>	extra fun if the api uses hourglass and not time packge
16:47:20	<merijn>	maerwald: How so?
16:47:28	<maerwald>	more conversions
16:47:38	<lortabac>	haha no, they don't even use Haskell, we actually get JSON
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16:52:38	hackage	generic-lens-core 2.1.0.0 - Generically derive traversals, lenses and prisms. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/generic-lens-core-2.1.0.0 (kcsongor)
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16:59:00	<c_wraith>	UTCTime is an accurate reflection of UTC. UTC is not an accurate description of the real world.
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17:00:22	<merijn>	c_wraith: Right, which means that you can't store real world future events in UTC :)
17:00:58	<maerwald>	even posix time has problems, no? (with leap seconds afair)
17:01:10	<exarkun>	It depends which real world you're interested in I guess
17:01:22	<c_wraith>	POSIX is the same as UTC, as far as that goes
17:01:38	<exarkun>	Also, who is really going to care if you are off by a handful of seconds after GPS falls out of the sky and everyone tells time by the sun again?
17:01:49	<merijn>	maerwald: The problems are far bigger than leap seconds
17:02:09	<merijn>	exarkun: eh, do you care about being of by hours?
17:02:30	<exarkun>	only sometimes :)
17:02:30	<merijn>	exarkun: future UTC times can easily be off by 1-2 hours
17:03:05	<exarkun>	The flip side is that half the time, timezones and DST make my understanding of current and past times off by 1-2 hours anyway :)
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17:03:10	<merijn>	exarkun: The problem is that to convert times to UTC, you need a UTC offset. But there are no "constant" UTC offsets
17:03:20	<geekosaur>	until around a decade ago, Israel set summer time differently every year
17:03:31	<merijn>	exarkun: No, you can perfectly know the UTC time of past events
17:03:41	<merijn>	Because you know the timezone in effect when it happened
17:03:49	<exarkun>	merijn: How do you know what _I_ can perfectly know? Haven't you been reading my questions? I am not that bright.
17:03:52	<merijn>	Therefore you know how to convert to UTC
17:04:10	<merijn>	exarkun: s/you know/you can lookup :p
17:04:28	<merijn>	exarkun: It is, however, impossible to know the correct time zone in the future, unless you're psychic
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17:04:43	<exarkun>	I had a pretty good trackrecord for a while but recently I invited someone to a meeting at GMT+N instead of GMT-N, woops.
17:04:52	<maerwald>	so what's the solution for future events
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17:04:58	<merijn>	Consider, for example, that the EU has voted to abolish daylight savings time
17:05:10	<merijn>	And you cannot know what countries will standardise on
17:05:15	<exarkun>	maerwald: It depends, again!
17:05:19	<merijn>	maerwald: "correct" solution, doesn't exist
17:05:25	<c_wraith>	depends on what you actually want to do. Often you want to schedule it at a local time. Which means you need to store a time and a locale.
17:05:27	<exarkun>	maerwald: You can represent the time in the local time reflecting all the local rules
17:05:30	<c_wraith>	But not always
17:05:31	<merijn>	maerwald: The "best possible" is to use IANA's geographical timezones
17:05:40	<exarkun>	maerwald: You just won't know when that time is going to happen :)
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17:06:01	<maerwald>	you guys are killing me
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17:06:19	<c_wraith>	On the other hand, sometimes you want to schedule something for "24 hours later", regardless of time zones or DST
17:06:20	<merijn>	maerwald: There are several geographic identifiers that identify zones that "have always had the same time since 1973", and by looking up the current mapping from these geographic zones to timezone is the best you can do
17:06:23	<geekosaur>	time kills everyone, in more ways than the obvious
17:06:26	maerwald	pretends to not have read this discussion
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17:06:49	<merijn>	maerwald: This is why, Windows/macOS have you select "Europe/Paris", "Europe/London", "Europe/Amsterdam", etc.
17:07:52	<c_wraith>	I think MacOS has stopped doing that, actually. Too many people complained that they didn't understand.
17:08:01	<c_wraith>	"I don't live in any of these cities!"
17:08:41	<maerwald>	this doesn't surprise me (on mac)
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17:09:12	<merijn>	c_wraith: Looks like it generates an automatic list of cities and (presumably) maps those to proper timezone names
17:09:40	<merijn>	Although it weirdly includes non-existent cities, such as Bielefeld...
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17:09:49	<maerwald>	funny, I live there
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17:10:01	<merijn>	maerwald: They got to you too?!
17:10:29	<maerwald>	imagine how many times in my life I've heard Bielefeld jokes...
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17:10:57	<maerwald>	even if I wanted to find them funny, I couldn't anymore :p
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17:15:51	<maerwald>	anyway... isn't there a global time... like the time on the moon or something?
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17:16:23	<geekosaur>	ah, an optimist
17:16:42	<maerwald>	moon doesn't need timezones, does it?
17:16:44	<LKoen>	soooo you'd say the time is given by the face of the moon that's currently facing the earth?
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17:16:47	<maerwald>	it's a moon
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17:17:34	<LKoen>	all the science-fiction movies about what's hidden on "the dark side of the moon" are a hint that we're always seeing the same side
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17:17:42	<LKoen>	or "hidden face of the moon" or whatever it's called
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17:18:07	<c_wraith>	yeah, but as soon as you send something to the moon and back its clock will be different than one that stayed on earth.
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17:18:37	<maerwald>	consider teleportation
17:18:59	<c_wraith>	it's still got to change inertial reference frames to get to the moon
17:19:35	<c_wraith>	our time libraries are utterly unequipped to handle changing reference frames!
17:19:49	<maerwald>	and what if you travel through the mycelial network?
17:19:53	<maerwald>	it's pretty much instant
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17:20:19	<c_wraith>	same problem as teleportation. the moon is a different reference frame.
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17:22:19	<maerwald>	I'll stick to posix time... by the time somenone figures out it's wrong, I'm on another project anyway
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17:24:37	<maerwald>	and it's easy to store in a database
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17:58:53	<tsandstr>	I am trying to learn Parsec and I am having some trouble. I am trying to use the `<\|>` combinator to parse one of two strings: "foo" or "fob". However, when I try to run the parser with input "fob", the first parser starts consuming input and then fails, and the second parser is never run. How do I fix this?
17:59:08	<merijn>	tsandstr: Using try
17:59:10	<ski>	use `try'
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17:59:17	<tsandstr>	ok, thank you
17:59:26	<merijn>	tsandstr: But! See: http://blog.ezyang.com/2014/05/parsec-try-a-or-b-considered-harmful/
17:59:29	<ski>	(or, left-factor)
17:59:35	<maerwald>	or use attoparsec
17:59:45	<merijn>	tsandstr: Also, consider using megaparsec
18:00:22	<merijn>	There's nothing wrong with parsec per se, but it's pretty dated and in "maintenance only" mode
18:00:47	<tsandstr>	merijn: okay, I will check it out
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18:01:41	<merijn>	tsandstr: It basically started out as a modernised fork, but has considerably more fancy features. You can stick with parsec for learning, but I wouldn't write new "serious" things in it unless I had a good reason
18:02:14	<tsandstr>	merijn: Okay. Definitely just fiddling right now, but that's good to know for the future
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18:47:11	<Athas>	I'm writing a parser with Megaparsec, and after some parses I have an extra-syntactic check for validity. If that check fails, however, the error message points at the next unread token, which is confusing. Is there a better way of doing this?
18:48:15	<Athas>	I guess I can manually play shenanigans with the parser state, but maybe someone already has.
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18:50:37	<Athas>	I guess I can use 'try' in a clever way...
18:51:02	<merijn>	Athas: pretty sure megaparsec lets you inject custom errors
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18:51:18	<Athas>	merijn: the error message isn't the problem, it's the source location.
18:51:21	<ij>	is it possible to make "solved <$> Data.Vector.Unboxed.Mutable.read vector index" faster? it would try to read all the data whereas I only need that specific bit
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18:53:05	<merijn>	Yes, no, maybe?
18:53:12	<ij>	great :D
18:53:24	<Athas>	ij: I recently replaced unboxed vectors with storable vectors, which significantly improved performance.
18:53:36	<merijn>	Athas: It depends on the datatype
18:53:41	<Athas>	Although my workload is IO-heavy, so it might not have an effect on indexing.
18:53:49	<Athas>	merijn: sure, I mean, if he they get away with it.
18:53:51	<merijn>	Athas: unboxed uses SoA
18:53:58	<ij>	what's SoA?
18:54:07	<merijn>	Athas: So if your storable instance if AoS that can matter a lot
18:54:15	<Athas>	Legacy terminology for ToA.
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18:54:19	<koz_>	ij: GHC=$(which ghc-8.10.3) hadrian/build -j _build/docs/html/libraries/base/base.haddock
18:54:22	<koz_>	Whoops.
18:54:26	<merijn>	ij: Struct of Arrays: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AoS_and_SoA
18:54:29	<koz_>	ij: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AoS_and_SoA
18:54:30	<merijn>	Athas: ToA?
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18:54:40	<Athas>	merijn: there's no such things as a "struct". The term is "tuple".
18:54:47	<Athas>	Let us not cater to C!
18:55:00	<merijn>	Athas: Good luck with that fight ;)
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18:55:04	<Athas>	Thank you!
18:55:30	<koz_>	Also, the Wikipedia definition uses 'Structure', which I think is general enough.
18:55:38	<koz_>	(I never read it as 'struct' FWIW)
18:55:51	<merijn>	ij: Did you profile where the slowness is?
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18:56:04	<merijn>	koz_: But that's, like, 3 more letters to type...
18:56:08	<Athas>	Well, "structure" is also vague. A heap is a "structure". "Tuple" is a nice and precise term.
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18:56:13	<ij>	merijn, yeah, reading from the vector spends most time running and in allocation
18:56:15	<koz_>	merijn: Are you in 1970 on a teletype? :P
18:56:20	<ij>	I'm going to UNPACK and INLINE everything next
18:56:21	<merijn>	I'm lazy
18:56:48	<merijn>	ij: Did you try unsafeRead yet?
18:56:59	<ij>	no, but why would that be faster?
18:57:02	<ij>	I could
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18:57:09	<merijn>	unsafeRead doesn't do bounds checking
18:57:19	<ij>	yes, that I totally don't need
18:57:27	<ij>	I'll definitely try taht
18:57:38	<merijn>	Probably won't be too significant
18:57:41	<merijn>	But who knows
18:57:50	<ij>	well, reading is bottle neck now
18:58:08	<ij>	alright, real-life chores, here I come. ttyl
18:58:11	<merijn>	That might also be you read pattern ;)
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18:58:30	<ij>	yeah, I'll also check all the calls
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18:59:28	<merijn>	ij: As in, reading serially will be much faster than randomly :p
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19:13:17	<mangow>	Hello everyone - I'm newbie to haskell and irc
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19:14:13	<ski>	mangow : welcome to the channel
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19:15:10	<ski>	(if you have any questions, just ask. if someone has an idea, they'll respond)
19:15:20	<Uniaika>	hi mangow, welcome to the community
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19:16:06	<mangow>	Thank you everyone. Been using haskell for work going on 2 years.
19:16:18	<gentauro>	nice https://www.stackage.org/lts-17.0
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19:19:29	<merijn>	lol
19:19:46	<merijn>	"newbie to Haskell" + "using haskell at work for 2 years" :p
19:20:47	<maerwald>	that's more than most ppl :p
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19:20:54	<__monty__>	I imagine that set of comments aroused some feelings of jealousy among participants/lurkers : )
19:21:32	<maerwald>	not sure... my advice is: never make your passion your job
19:21:57	<maerwald>	it's a safe way to kill your passion
19:22:22	<merijn>	Unrelatedly: commandline or command-line?
19:22:45	<__monty__>	Probably command line.
19:22:55	<maerwald>	the latter sounds like a synonym for hierarchy
19:23:46	<mangow>	Well there's a lot I don't know. Been relying a lot on my mentor (recently left) for the hairy stuff. For example can someone explain what setting the compiler flag -with-rtsopt=-N does?
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19:23:53	<Uniaika>	yep' it's polysemic
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19:24:12	<gentauro>	mangow: merijn: can :)
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19:24:25	<mangow>	gentauro: thanks
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19:24:46	<gentauro>	mangow: and his knowledge is spot-on
19:25:36	<gentauro>	mangow: you could also read docs -> https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/8.8.4/docs/html/users_guide/using-optimisation.html
19:25:39	<gentauro>	;)
19:27:15	<mangow>	thanks!
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19:28:02	<maerwald>	also note: IRC is a time sink
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19:29:14	<merijn>	__monty__: hmm, this implies the hyphen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command-line_interface
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19:30:50	<maerwald>	POSIX uses "command line"
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19:31:56	<mangow>	gentauro: found it - thanks! https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/8.8.4/docs/html/users_guide/using-concurrent.html#rts-flag--N%20%E2%9F%A8x%E2%9F%A9
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19:39:51	<tomsmeding>	merijn: https://www.lexico.com/definition/command_line
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19:43:26	<exarkun>	The hyphen is grammatic. "Command" is an adjective describing "line". "Command-line" is a compound adjective describing "interface".
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19:44:37	<gentauro>	mangow: I noticed I sent you the wrong URL …
19:44:57	<merijn>	exarkun: \o/
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19:45:12	<tomsmeding>	for example: "big car seller" = big (car seller); "big-car seller" = (big car) seller
19:45:52	<tomsmeding>	who said that concatenation was associative?
19:46:34	<geekosaur>	syntax is a tree, not a list; we just insist on flattening it into lists and producing these ambiguities
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19:47:46	<exarkun>	Google will tell you syntax is a massively connected network of hundreds of billions of nodes...
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19:50:21	<Uniaika>	exarkun: is that how they call their infra?
19:50:40	<geekosaur>	heh
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19:52:27	<exarkun>	:)
19:52:59	ski	. o O ( syntax isn't the initial semantics ? )
19:53:00	<mangow>	gentauro: not the concurrent page? https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/8.8.4/docs/html/users_guide/using-concurrent.html
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19:57:15	<gentauro>	mangow: I sent you optimization and not concurrent
19:57:24	<gentauro>	but good that you found it on your own
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19:58:37	<mangow>	gentauro: misread your comment - all good
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20:08:45	<mangow>	Been having segmentation fault on during run time since upgrading to 8.8.3. Would go on for a few days or two weeks before crashing. The code uses concurrency (compiled with -threaded -rtsopts -with-rtsopts =-N). Have turned off cairo as ffi that may be contributing - no joy. Advice on debugging this?
20:09:29	<merijn>	mangow: Eh, have you tried gdb on the coredumps yet? :)
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20:11:08	<mangow>	merijn: no. :)
20:11:28	<mangow>	will try that - thanks
20:11:36	<sm[m]>	mangow: you're not on Windows are you ?
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20:11:50	<mangow>	no - on nixos
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20:26:44	<__monty__>	merijn: I said probably because you asked about "command line," context is important. And I see it was already addressed in the backlog : )
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20:52:58	<dminuoso>	Hi. When using packages in cabal.project, it seems as if when building a particular build target, that constraints from all vendored packages(/components?) are considered. So say, when I have `packages: /.cabal`, then the build plan for `cabal build foo/Foo.hs` would include constraints from `bar/bar.cabal`
20:53:04	<dminuoso>	Is that by design?
20:53:53	<dminuoso>	(Even if foo/foo.cabal has no dependency on `bar`)
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20:57:14	<geekosaur>	ignoring them / letting ghc pick whatever it felt like is more or less where ancient "cabal hell" came from
20:57:22	<geekosaur>	if I understand what you're asking
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20:57:58	<geekosaur>	it's not just whether foo has a dependency on bar but whether the final build which presumably includes both foo and bar is self-consistent
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20:59:56	<geekosaur>	or if it has bar depending on quux 1.0, baz depending on quux 1.1, and foo may care about none of them but myproj depends on foo, bar, and baz
21:00:28	<geekosaur>	so it's all dependencies of myproj that have all constraints applied so everything is consistent
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21:03:11	<geekosaur>	(also, it is a constraint, not a dependency itself. it constrains any matching dependency that is encountered)
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21:04:03	<geekosaur>	and it's easier to just pass the whole set of constraints along than to prune the unnecessary ones in some branches of the dependency tree
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21:04:04	<geekosaur>	and it's easier to just pass the whole set of constraints along than to prune the unnecessary ones in some branches of the dependency tree
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21:05:49	<geekosaur>	hm, whooops, did that last one go twice?
21:05:56	<ski>	yep
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21:09:27	<sm[m]>	see the top haskell projects race on github:
21:09:27	<sm[m]>	https://star-history.t9t.io/#jgm/pandoc&koalaman/shellcheck&PostgREST/postgrest&hasura/graphql-engine&github/semantic
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21:13:41	<koala_man>	weee :D
21:14:19	<geekosaur>	it asked me for an API token; I declined to request one
21:14:41	<geekosaur>	in any case, how much of this is everyone racing the debian freeze? :p
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21:15:17	<sm[m]>	yeah it does, but the process of getting yourself one is pleasantly easy (3 clicks, no permissions required..)
21:15:37	<sm[m]>	wait, I can just link a screenshot.
21:15:39	<koala_man>	geekosaur: https://imgur.com/a/Sm0Z58h
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21:16:42	<geekosaur>	also I'd have to expect xmonad is mostly flat with some spikes
21:17:06	<geekosaur>	seems like every year or so a new crop discovers it and we get a spike of activity that settles after a few months
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21:20:21	<aldum>	is that a drawing, or just generated with noisy lines for effect?
21:20:25	<geekosaur>	(hm, complicated by most of the activity being in contrib, not core)
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21:22:04	sm[m]	uploaded an image: Screen Shot 2021-01-25 at 1.21.53 PM.png (91KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/wLDCWcGadXhivaZnoYxODwpZ/Screen Shot 2021-01-25 at 1.21.53 PM.png >
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21:22:19	<sm[m]>	wow look at that - hledger and xmonad neck and neck
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21:23:13	<__monty__>	Wow, matrix's url handling doesn't %-encode?
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21:25:17	<koala_man>	the URL works even if you stop at the space
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21:31:21	<__monty__>	Huh, so it does, just need the hash really.
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21:49:09	<sm[m]>	the mighty pandoc is temporarily unseated, but I think it'll outgrow these others
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21:49:35	<sm[m]>	though, it's broader user base is less likely to star. We'll see
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21:51:55	<sm[m]>	oh hello koala_man ! congrats!
21:52:19	<sm[m]>	you should get a yellow hat or something
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21:54:53	<sm[m]>	aldum: it's a generated chart, the style is just for effect
21:56:53	<aldum>	nice, had me almost fooled
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22:00:33	<koala_man>	^___^
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22:18:29	<ij>	Athas, why could the storable be faster?
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22:39:43	<dolio>	ij: Array of structures is sometimes faster.
22:39:54	<dolio>	Seems unlikely for your problem, though.
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22:41:40	<dolio>	Well, actually, it could be for the general reason. AOS means that everything in a single structure usually fits in a cache line, so accessing the components is inexpensive, even if you're going to throw them away.
22:42:37	<dolio>	Whereas with SOA, you may be touching several locations in memory but only need results from one of them.
22:43:26	<ij>	I would imagine Unboxed is AoS too
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22:48:23	<dolio>	No, it's structure of arrays.
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22:49:17	<ij>	surprised pikachu
22:49:18	<ski>	ok
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22:52:58	<dolio>	Unfortunately Storable also uses ForeignPtr, which is bad.
22:53:19	<ij>	from user's POV?
22:53:53	<dolio>	From an all-your-memory-is-pinned view.
22:53:58	<ij>	ah
22:54:02	<ij>	gotcha
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22:58:27	<dolio>	The `Prim` class has all the stuff necessary to do AOS, I think. Then you could use Data.Vector.Primitive which is backed by ByteArray.
22:59:04	<dolio>	I don't know if this is actually going to be your bottleneck, though.
22:59:39	<ij>	25% of CPU time spent on maze reading = UMV.unsafeRead
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23:01:10	<ij>	so each tiem I read from the unboxed array, I access memory from 4 distant places in the memory? I have four fields for my array
23:01:17	<dolio>	Since Unboxed is SOA, you can also just get the underlying portion you want and just read it.
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23:09:33	<ij>	I replaced with boxed vectors and it became 2x faster
23:09:44	<ij>	apparently I didn't know what I was doing
23:09:48	<ij>	super easy rewrite, though
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23:10:13	<ij>	http://sprunge.us/HObJkS?diff
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23:12:43	<dolio>	Well, that's why I said cache effects might not be your bottleneck.
23:13:17	<dolio>	I assume that means that the reason that unsafeRead is taking your time is that it's re-allocating your stuff on the heap.
23:13:40	<dolio>	So the rest of your program isn't written for everything to remain unboxed.
23:14:05	<dolio>	That also suggests that Storable wouldn't have helped.
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23:19:33	<ij>	now the bottleneck is sortOn, which really is "head . dropWhile bad . sort" and the rest don't need sorting
23:19:53	<ij>	is it haskell underneath or optimized C?
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23:22:45	<monochrom>	Hrm, is that Data.List's sort?
23:22:52	<ij>	yeah
23:26:07	<monochrom>	Under most models (or aka theories), using Haskell immutable list nodes for sorting is less efficient than using a mutable array. But I don't think anyone bothered to implement mutable array in-place sorting. Without an empircal comparison, you may as well sign it off as necessary cost.
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23:27:14	<ij>	is it C under the hood though?
23:27:39	<monochrom>	It would be easier said than done to code up an in-place mutable array sorting algorithm that would beat Data.List.sort in practice, because Data.List.sort went through very clever, benchmart-driven, benchmark-proven optimizations.
23:28:15	<dolio>	vector-algorithms has mutable array sorting.
23:28:26	<monochrom>	Ah my bad.
23:28:43	<ij>	I don't strictly need sorting though
23:29:12	<ij>	I need (head:rest) of dropWhileBad . sortOn score
23:29:14	<monochrom>	I wonder if "head . sort . filter bad" is better.
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23:29:26	<ij>	I'll try that
23:29:35	<monochrom>	err, "head . sort . filter (not . bad)".
23:29:39	<ij>	right
23:30:06	<monochrom>	taking advantage that "head . sort" ends up being linear time.
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23:30:24	<ij>	I tried writing code that would be "linear', but it was slower
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23:32:49	<ij>	1.35x slower for the whole solve
23:33:02	<ij>	eye-balled difference
23:33:13	<ij>	> 390/430.0
23:33:14	<lambdabot>	0.9069767441860465
23:33:22	<ij>	> 430.0/390
23:33:23	<lambdabot>	1.1025641025641026
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23:33:52	<ij>	needless to say, I was quite off
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23:45:07	<ij>	this would put min up first: http://sprunge.us/vEFeHJ
23:45:17	<ij>	I'll test it again, but I see no reason why it would be faster this time around
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23:50:16	<ij>	ah, but this time I correctly implemented the iteration count, so it turns out it impacts the order
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All times are in UTC on 2021-01-25.