Logs on 2021-01-30 (freenode/#haskell)
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| 00:01:18 | <orzo> | i asked a "wrong" verison of cabal to do the build and complained about something and then i went back to the same version of cabal i used to install both the installed libraries and the last working build of the local project |
| 00:01:57 | <orzo> | maybe even running a diff version of cabal on the same machine with the same user will bork everything up |
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| 00:06:25 | <orzo> | i notice that ghc can handle -- comments in its environment files but that cabal just fails |
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| 00:08:38 | <orzo> | are the build-requirements hashes the same as the hashes appearing in the filenames for the installed packages? |
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| 00:09:44 | <orzo> | can ghc or ghc-pkg make those hashes or is it considered internal to cabal? |
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| 00:25:27 | <orzo> | inside the .conf files, there's an "abi" field which is a smaller md5-sized hash that is not the same as that occuring in the filenames |
| 00:25:50 | <orzo> | probably the filenames are a cabal thing and ghc only deals with that smaller abi hash |
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| 00:59:58 | <frdg> | After running my project with `sudo stack run --allow-different user` I cannot run my project as my normal user without getting this error: http://dpaste.com/4GJQQUBK8 |
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| 01:00:11 | <frdg> | I can still run the project fine as root |
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| 01:03:36 | <orzo> | did you check your user has permissions to your build artifacts |
| 01:04:09 | <frdg> | no |
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| 01:05:05 | <frdg> | how do I do that? |
| 01:05:49 | <frdg> | everything in the src dir still belongs to my user |
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| 01:07:19 | <orzo> | ls -l $(find . -user otheruser) |
| 01:07:34 | <orzo> | where otheruser is whatever that other user was that you used |
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| 01:09:36 | <frdg> | yes after `chown -R user .stack` it works thanks |
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| 01:10:04 | <frdg> | on a seperate note would I overall have less problems if I used cabal? |
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| 01:21:14 | <monochrom> | "sudo cabal" interprets "sudo" the same way "sudo stack" does. Both sees "HOME=/root" and start putting stuff there. The common assumption of "/usr/local" is wrong. |
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| 01:21:22 | <monochrom> | s/common/popular/ |
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| 01:29:43 | <inkbottle> | So the "free applicative functor" is the left adjoint to some forgetful functor? It is why it is called free? |
| 01:30:33 | <inkbottle> | initially I stumbled on that: "at least use a free applicative functor to ensure that you don’t forget to consume that whitespace". |
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| 01:31:36 | <inkbottle> | Since I've read Paolo Capriotti's article (40%). |
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| 01:33:01 | <c_wraith> | anyone know offhand if -XRecursiveDo implies -XMonoLocalBinds? |
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| 01:33:20 | <monochrom> | I think no. |
| 01:33:33 | <c_wraith> | hmm. wonder why that definition isn't generalizing |
| 01:34:12 | <monochrom> | However, both "x <- ..." and "\x -> ..." monomorphize x, but that has always been true. |
| 01:34:44 | <c_wraith> | oh, that'd do it. RecursiveDo rewrites bound identifiers into a tuple in a lambda |
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| 01:35:11 | <inkbottle> | That was the page with the whitespaces and I think there's a follow up, I'm sure I'll soon understand everything (https://ro-che.info/articles/2015-01-02-lexical-analysis) |
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| 01:50:44 | <orzo> | Since i've never seen it explicitly documented: the cabal search for a .project file searches upwards until it hits either the user home dir or the root. There's apprently no depth limit and it uses System.canonicalizePath to decide the sequence of directories that are considered parents. |
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| 02:17:14 | <orzo> | i just discovered --dependency which will let me more explictly tell cabal to use a particular installed package |
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| 02:18:26 | <orzo> | hmm, v2-configure doesn't like it |
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| 02:20:49 | <SwarmCollective> | Oddly, when taking this code directly from the docs: pattern HeadC x <- x:xs where HeadC x = [x] {-# INLINE HeadC #-} I get a parse error on "HeadC" following "INLINE". |
| 02:21:46 | <SwarmCollective> | Are the docs out of date and INLINE pragma can no longer be applied to pattern synonyms? |
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| 02:28:37 | nomad | is now known as fakeworldhaskell |
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| 02:35:02 | <fakeworldhaskell> | How silly is it if I want to do game dev with Haskell, or even make a game engine with Haskell? |
| 02:35:03 | <fakeworldhaskell> | I looked up online exhaustively but can't find much helpful resources. I guess OpenGL and the surrounding utilities will be needed. But the Haskell libraries (bindings?) around them look very old and un-maintained, which makes me too scared to proceed. |
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| 02:36:42 | <glguy> | fakeworldhaskell, it would be quite an uphill battle. If you want to make a game you'd probably be better served starting with an existing game engine |
| 02:36:54 | <glguy> | as far as opengl bindings, http://hackage.haskell.org/package/gl is worth looking at |
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| 02:40:32 | <dmj`> | fakeworldhaskell: have you seen helm ? |
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| 02:42:26 | <dmj`> | SwarmCollective: do you have the error message? |
| 02:42:37 | <orzo> | fakeworldhaskell: the lambdacube engine is unmaintained, but i've got a project using it currently and have a lot of patches i could offer |
| 02:42:43 | <dmj`> | fakeworldhaskell: @package helm |
| 02:42:47 | <dmj`> | @package helm |
| 02:42:47 | <lambdabot> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/helm |
| 02:43:56 | <fakeworldhaskell> | glguy By "an existing game engine", did you mean an existing engine written in Haskell, or another lang? I looked up game engines on Haskell wiki, but they are sorted alphabetically, not popularity / usability. |
| 02:44:56 | <fakeworldhaskell> | dmj` I just heard about it. But I can't connect to its website, and the GitHub page says it's archived and looking for co-maintainers. Is it a good idea to still try to proceed? |
| 02:44:57 | <glguy> | I don't think an OpenGL game is a good Haskell project and I'd use a game framework in a different library if my goal was to make a game |
| 02:45:17 | <glguy> | in a different language* |
| 02:45:31 | <fakeworldhaskell> | orzo Do you have the patches stored at some repository? |
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| 02:45:57 | <fakeworldhaskell> | Clarifying myself, I'm looking to make 3D games. |
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| 02:47:15 | <dmj`> | fakeworldhaskell: as glguy says, there are very few games created in Haskell. Albeit not impossible, it requires a level of understanding of the Haskell runtime system that few have. You can use gl (which just FFIs into C), but requiring the consumers of your game engine to use the Haskell heap will make the performance less than ideal. |
| 02:47:36 | <dmj`> | fakeworldhaskell: I do have all of learnopengl.com ported to haskell using gl, but I haven't open sourced it yet |
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| 02:48:42 | <dmj`> | fakeworldhaskell: the Haskell GC, for major garbage collections, is stop the world, so the entire game will pause, this is a non-starter for most game frameworks |
| 02:49:35 | <dmj`> | fakeworldhaskell: you'd have to require your users to allocate all game data in a different heap (C heap), not impossible, just hasn't been done afaik |
| 02:50:32 | <dmj`> | fakeworldhaskell: optimizing Haskell is the law of diminishing returns |
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| 02:51:19 | <fakeworldhaskell> | Yes, I've heard about the GC problem. Looks like it's a big enough roadblock. |
| 02:51:20 | <fakeworldhaskell> | Are the GC and performance problems the main reason that Haskell is not a good fit for games, and people simply choose not to work on this area? |
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| 02:54:46 | <dmj`> | fakeworldhaskell: you can use Haskell for games, the secret is to keep all the game data in a different heap (the C heap), otherwise you'll be subject to the Haskell rts. Which has a lot of bugs. A low latency GC has been released in the latest GHC release, but I'm not sure it's adequately addressed these problems. Haskell really can't compare with C/C++/Rust in this regard. Haskell is a much better front end language of |
| 02:54:46 | <dmj`> | course, since it's a research project, but it pales in comparison to runtime performance with these languages. If you want to use Haskell, your best bet is to force your users to make Haskell objects that live on the C heap, and even then you'll pay a cost for doing so. |
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| 02:55:26 | <dmj`> | fakeworldhaskell: unless all functions that operate on this data are also operating on the C heap |
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| 02:57:15 | <fakeworldhaskell> | By "frontend language" did you mean frontend in web dev, or rather a frontend in research? |
| 02:57:23 | <dmj`> | fakeworldhaskell: research |
| 02:57:46 | <dmj`> | fakeworldhaskell: and by frontend I mean lexer, parser, type system. Not RTS, IRs, CodeGen |
| 02:58:44 | <dmj`> | fakeworldhaskell: Your best bet is to fork the Haskell language and use some of the advancements that have been made in whole program optimization (forget Cmm, use LLVM and interprocedural register allocation which mitigates penalties on function calls in code gen). |
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| 02:59:31 | <dmj`> | fakeworldhaskell: otherwise you're staring down 20-30 years of work to understand and then improve upon GHC |
| 02:59:45 | <dmj`> | fakeworldhaskell: and trust me, no fork of GHC has ever been upstreamed into GHC. That's just law. |
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| 03:03:54 | <fakeworldhaskell> | Okay! I've concluded that atm I'm going to look at something else. Rust Amethyst most likely. |
| 03:04:10 | <fakeworldhaskell> | Btw thanks for answering my questions, people. |
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| 03:09:41 | <dmj`> | fakeworldhaskell: you'll lose some niceties that haskell has to offer, and some safety, you could help innovate in this space, but it would be considered research if you did so |
| 03:10:02 | <dmj`> | fakeworldhaskell: like higher-kinded types |
| 03:12:51 | <slack1256> | I wonder if some linear type guarrantees will tie in the RTS to a "no garbage created on this code". That would help for writing soft-realtime code such as the inner loops of some games. |
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| 03:18:05 | <orzo> | you guys totally screwed us out of his labours with all that scary talk |
| 03:19:08 | <orzo> | let'm get in for a penny before charging the pound, man |
| 03:22:38 | <SwarmCollective> | ^^^^ :) |
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| 03:23:20 | <slack1256> | We are not an enterprise, we don't like to obtain customers lol |
| 03:25:30 | <slack1256> | s/like/lie |
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| 03:29:54 | <dmj`> | If he wasn't up for the challenge, we wouldn't have wanted it anways |
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| 03:34:51 | <orzo> | shrug, enthusastic attempts inspire later more competent successes. It's more a culture/zeitgeist thing. Get'm hyped and it will come |
| 03:36:23 | <orzo> | let the fresh-faced newbies charge ahead in ignorance and admire them for it |
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| 03:39:37 | <monochrom> | As usual, it depends on the person, so why argue. |
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| 03:42:09 | <dmj`> | Even Jon Carmack paid homage to Haskell at a QuakeCon conference, moreso because of the benefits of refactorability (via equational reasoning). How have we progressed since then? |
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| 03:42:40 | <dmj`> | s/Jon/John |
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| 03:43:51 | <orzo> | i don't really think performance is our main issue |
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| 03:45:32 | <orzo> | get all the game engine basics in a newbie-friendly interface and optimize it later when there's some apps built |
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| 03:47:07 | <monochrom> | If our webdev engines on hackage are any history-based indication: |
| 03:47:31 | <monochrom> | our game engines will be so obsessed with dependent typing that no beginner will ever understand. |
| 03:47:39 | <orzo> | heh |
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| 03:48:22 | <slack1256> | scotty is still beginner friendly |
| 03:48:29 | <slack1256> | Or am I that out of touch? |
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| 03:49:17 | <orzo> | maybe the right approach is to start with bindings to a c library and slowly canibalize it |
| 03:49:21 | <MarcelineVQ> | might I suggest tuvok as a dependent spock |
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| 03:49:34 | <monochrom> | haha |
| 03:51:04 | <orzo> | the c-library fffi disicplin will force newbie-friendliness initially and the type hacking drive will motivate the canibalization |
| 03:52:49 | <monochrom> | C libraries (and therefore bindings that expose the C-ness, so playing to Haskell's weakness not strength) are not automatically beginner-friendly either. For example just look at curl's or ncurses's. They are like great lessons for how to make an API suck, in any language at all. |
| 03:53:51 | <monochrom> | In fact, suck + unlearnable. |
| 03:54:01 | <dmj`> | yea, you'd be pushing hsc2hs and foreign import everywhere, would feel unnatural. |
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| 03:54:20 | <dmj`> | they'd be onto us at that point |
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| 03:54:26 | <orzo> | heh |
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| 03:57:04 | <orzo> | how would you rate gi-gtk for newbie-friendliness? |
| 03:58:21 | <monochrom> | It cannot be absolutely friendly because it is large. But the same is true for the C version to begin with. |
| 03:58:36 | <dmj`> | A high 4 ? |
| 03:59:46 | <monochrom> | I don't know how related are gi-gtk and gtk2hs, but gtk2hs did one additional thing (not available in C) that plays to the strength of Haskell concurrency. |
| 04:00:32 | <dmj`> | frag is the farthest we've come in like a ... decade ? |
| 04:01:02 | <monochrom> | You know how, in C, it is so annoying that you just can't issue a gtk command in any random thread, you can only do it in the same thread as the mainloop thread, right? |
| 04:01:25 | <orzo> | sure |
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| 04:02:02 | <monochrom> | So gtk2hs's mainloop wakes up every 0.1 second or something for polling. Here is what it polls: |
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| 04:02:45 | <monochrom> | You can call one of two gtk2hs functions (not available in C, gtk2hs's own addition), they are postGUISync and postGUIAsync. |
| 04:02:59 | <monochrom> | You can call them in any thread you want, no restriction. |
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| 04:03:25 | <orzo> | i don't think that exists in gi-gtk |
| 04:03:44 | <orzo> | in gi-gtk, and in gtk in c, the thing to do is an addIdle call |
| 04:03:57 | <orzo> | so your code will occure in the main thread |
| 04:04:20 | <monochrom> | How do they work? You issue "postGUISync <your IO action that contains gtk commands>", or the postGUIAsync variant. Your IO action is sent to an MVar or a message queue, I forgot which. |
| 04:05:04 | <orzo> | hm, well it sounds similar enough to the add-idle pattern |
| 04:05:19 | <monochrom> | The mainloop polls the receiving end of that queue every 0.1 second, and executes the IO action you sent. So your gtk commands are executed in mainloop's thread indeed. But you can send them from any thread! |
| 04:05:59 | <orzo> | you can call teh gtk method to add and idle callback in any thread too, that's what its for |
| 04:06:08 | <orzo> | or glib |
| 04:06:24 | <orzo> | glib/gdk/gtk i don't distinguish |
| 04:06:41 | <monochrom> | And in the case of postGUISync, mainloop additionally sends back a message "done", and postGUISync waits for that reply before returning. So your random thread can wait for a gtk command to finish too! |
| 04:07:47 | <dmj`> | If somebody is looking for help on how to build a game engine, odds are they don't know the problems with existing game engines |
| 04:08:06 | <orzo> | that guy just wanted to make his 3d game in haskell |
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| 04:08:12 | <monochrom> | So while you can say that postGUIAsync is "simply add-idle, that's trivial", postGUISync is a totally new invention on the Haskell side, using Haskell concurrency goodness not found in C, to add value. |
| 04:08:23 | <monochrom> | This is what I call playing to Haskell's strength. |
| 04:08:50 | <slack1256> | TIL: postGUISync is a haskell-level function, not something you do on GTK |
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| 04:08:59 | <orzo> | yeah, but ordinary bindings to c add-idle let you use a haskell mvar too in gi-gtk |
| 04:09:10 | <monochrom> | I would also say this makes gtk2hs more beginner-friendly that gtk itself. With postGUISync you can just use multi-threading without learning the hard lessons. |
| 04:10:22 | <orzo> | probably |
| 04:10:49 | <orzo> | that's true of most gtk bindings tho |
| 04:10:53 | <orzo> | to different languages |
| 04:10:58 | <monochrom> | To a large extent, every inversion of control is beginner-unfriendly. So for example add-idle. |
| 04:11:02 | <orzo> | it's usually nicer to do gtk in some non-c language |
| 04:11:15 | <monochrom> | postGUISync makes it not look like inversion of control. |
| 04:12:03 | <orzo> | hm, well, it's probably more newbie-friendly than gi-gtk |
| 04:12:31 | <monochrom> | Then again, even with add-idle, add-idle in C is very different from add-idle in Haskell (or any language that gives first-class local functions, really). |
| 04:12:43 | <orzo> | but then, being nearer to the official c docs is a friendly thing too |
| 04:13:43 | <orzo> | a bigger mistake of gi-gtk was their unneccessary fascination with OverloadedLabels |
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| 04:13:51 | <orzo> | and their weird way of building without it |
| 04:14:02 | <slack1256> | That's optional. I never use them. |
| 04:14:26 | <orzo> | i don't anymore either |
| 04:14:35 | <orzo> | did you ever try'm? |
| 04:15:13 | <slack1256> | I never understood OverloadedLabels. IIRC they were marketed as a building block for solving the record problem at the time. |
| 04:15:18 | <orzo> | probably teh reason its optional is that they realized their mistake but it was already in their release contract so they wont revert |
| 04:16:19 | <orzo> | overloaded labels are alright source-wise, but the way gi-gtk uses them is apparently too onerous for ghc to have reasonable compile times |
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| 04:24:08 | <dmj`> | I wouldn't consider gtk viable for what he wanted |
| 04:25:34 | <orzo> | i've a tool that uses lambdacube to render 3d in a gtk widget |
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| 04:25:57 | <orzo> | you're probably right i guess, but who knows |
| 04:26:44 | <orzo> | i like putting it in a gui tool kit to use in non-games too |
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| 04:52:59 | <dolio> | Wow, implicit parameters were rebuilt on top of Symbol stuff? |
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| 04:54:44 | <glguy> | dolio, URL? |
| 04:54:50 | <dolio> | https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/records/overloaded-record-fields/overloaded-labels |
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| 05:01:46 | <glguy> | dolio, oh, I thought you meant that they were redoing the implicitparameters implementation using overloadedlables |
| 05:02:12 | <dolio> | No, but apparently it's already similar to the design. |
| 05:02:20 | <dolio> | According to that page, at least. |
| 05:03:18 | <glguy> | I've used them for exactly one project via gi-gtk |
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| 05:08:32 | <dolio> | It makes me wonder if you can make it do weird stuff now. Since it's modeled with a type class, can you pack it in a GADT, and get incoherent instance resolution? |
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| 05:10:32 | <dolio> | Also is the weakness of fundeps essential to not being unsound, since you can give the same implicit parameter different types in different scopes (I think)? |
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| 05:11:12 | <glguy> | I'm trying to follow. I don't think OverloadedLabels gives you any new power; it's just a convenient syntax for using the IsLabel class, right? |
| 05:11:46 | <dolio> | The first section of that page is how ImplicitParameters are now implemented in terms of an IP class. |
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| 05:16:44 | <glguy> | I got to "Here is how they work in GHC today." and assumed that wasn't the new thing I was supposed to read :) |
| 05:17:16 | <dolio> | No, that's what I was surprised by. Apparently the way they work is completely different than I thought. |
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| 05:19:18 | <orzo> | From gi-gtk, on :: object -> SignalProxy object info -> HaskellCallbackType info -> m SignalHandlerId |
| 05:20:32 | <orzo> | the object type can hopefully be gleaned by something nearby, but the info type has to be checked against every possible instance of HaskellCallbackType and IsLabel lbl (SignalProxy object info) |
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| 05:21:05 | <orzo> | i'm not sure exactly what's going on but it's probably some kind of n^2 search |
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| 05:31:45 | <orzo> | maybe they'd have done better with this: on :: obj -> SignalProxy lbl obj -> HaskellCallbackType lbl obj -> m SignalHandlerId |
| 05:32:30 | <orzo> | then widget type and label is enough to resolve everything without this 'info' type complication |
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| 06:19:33 | <xcmw> | Is there a type class that has and, or, always, and never? Or something similar? |
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| 06:23:31 | <orzo> | as an isomorphism to Bool? |
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| 06:28:57 | <xcmw> | orzo: I had (a -> Bool) in mind |
| 06:32:15 | <xcmw> | and : a -> a -> a ; or : a -> a -> a ; never : a ; always : a |
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| 09:07:47 | <idnar> | dminuoso: I found out about `instance Monoid b => Monoid (a -> b)` when I did `someFold <> otherFold` without thinking to compose them, and then was like "wait, why did that work?" |
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| 09:08:54 | <Uniaika> | idnar: :D |
| 09:09:00 | <Uniaika> | % :t rotate = drop <> take |
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| 09:09:00 | <yahb> | Uniaika: ; <interactive>:1:9: error: parse error on input `=' |
| 09:09:06 | <Uniaika> | ugh sure |
| 09:09:12 | <Uniaika> | % :t drop <> take |
| 09:09:12 | <yahb> | Uniaika: Int -> [a] -> [a] |
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| 09:15:32 | <idnar> | % True <> False |
| 09:15:32 | <yahb> | idnar: ; <interactive>:73:1: error:; * No instance for (Semigroup Bool) arising from a use of `<>'; * In the expression: True <> False; In an equation for `it': it = True <> False |
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| 09:17:14 | <Uniaika> | % asum [True, False] |
| 09:17:14 | <yahb> | Uniaika: ; <interactive>:74:7: error:; * Couldn't match expected type `f a' with actual type `Bool'; * In the expression: True; In the first argument of `asum', namely `[True, False]'; In the expression: asum [True, False]; * Relevant bindings include it :: f a (bound at <interactive>:74:1); <interactive>:74:13: error:; * Couldn't match expected type `f a' with actual type `Bool'; * |
| 09:17:22 | <Uniaika> | ugh of course |
| 09:17:24 | <Uniaika> | silly me |
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| 09:53:00 | <hololeap> | % asum [Nothing, Just True] |
| 09:53:00 | <yahb> | hololeap: Just True |
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| 11:53:15 | <ij> | I have a Data.Set with (data, score), where Eq is on the whole strucutre, but Ord on just the score. Would it be possible to delete all instances of (data, X)? Is there some structure that could do that or is keeping that info in the map the only option? |
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| 12:01:52 | <pavonia> | ij: Can't you just use filter? |
| 12:02:08 | <ij> | pavonia, I can, but I'm wondering whether I can do better |
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| 12:03:32 | <pavonia> | Better in what regard? |
| 12:03:39 | <ij> | speed |
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| 12:04:33 | <ij> | I'm backtracking, so I execute filter on every nth iteration, which works better than not filtering |
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| 12:06:44 | <pavonia> | I don't see a way to do it faster than O(n) |
| 12:07:09 | <ij> | well, removing one element from a set is O(log n) |
| 12:07:12 | <juri_> | I don't suppose anyone but me is working in the field of straight skeletons and projective geometry? |
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| 12:09:22 | <kciN> | Hey, guys! I am just getting started with haskell. Can you recommend some problems like those in projecteuler.net or the book `Etudes for Erlang` but more applicable for haskell? |
| 12:10:45 | <pavonia> | ij: Just to get your right, you are using a custom element type with inconsistent Eq and Ord instances? |
| 12:11:08 | <ij> | I did make them consistent, I just fixed it |
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| 12:11:17 | <ij> | it eats elements otherwise |
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| 12:12:21 | <ij> | but I think I just have to store more data to remove only by one field |
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| 12:16:27 | <xsperry> | kciN one commonly recommended tutorial has excercises.. but I can't recall its name. maybe someone else can help |
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| 12:18:48 | <kciN> | I am reading "Learn You a Haskell for Great Good" rn. Sadly it has no exercises. |
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| 12:24:05 | <siraben> | ,lyah |
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| 12:42:36 | <Arahael> | kciN: I couldn't read that one. The author is pretty crap at English. :( |
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| 12:56:53 | __minoru__shirae | is now known as shiraeeshi |
| 12:57:28 | <ski> | @where CIS194 |
| 12:57:28 | <lambdabot> | https://www.seas.upenn.edu/~cis194/spring13/lectures.html |
| 12:57:44 | <ski> | kciN : try those ^ ? |
| 12:57:49 | <ski> | xsperry : thinking of that ? |
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| 13:00:29 | <kciN> | ski : thanks |
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| 13:34:40 | <kciN> | Why is ghci asking me to use spaces instead of tabs? |
| 13:35:30 | <merijn> | Probably because you turned on the warning that tells you to do that :p |
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| 13:37:10 | <kciN> | I dindu nuffin, I swear |
| 13:37:17 | <kciN> | Probably bad default config |
| 13:37:23 | <merijn> | s/bad/good |
| 13:38:32 | <merijn> | The tab behaviour specified by the report follows common unix tools, which is different from what many people expect and layout rules make it important to know the *right* indentation |
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| 13:48:26 | ski | . o O ( "Yet Another Tabs v. Spaces Debate" by dmwit at <http://dmwit.com/tabs/> ) |
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| 14:02:23 | <int-e> | . o O ( tabs are for browsers ) |
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| 14:04:50 | <Uniaika> | Actually I've seen a quite compelling argument for tabs |
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| 14:05:25 | <Uniaika> | they are extremely configurable and this is very useful for people who have eye sight issues |
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| 14:05:37 | <Uniaika> | like, being partially blind or something else |
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| 14:10:11 | <exarkun> | any recommendations for haskell charting/plotting/graphing libraries? |
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| 14:14:35 | <__monty__> | exarkun: I think last time this came up Chart was still considered the best option but gnuplot and matplotlib still come out on top. |
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| 14:20:21 | <exarkun> | Hm. So I guess Chart is the "most" Haskell-y? It just uses (eg) Cairo for drawing and does the rest itself ... But I see there are gnuplot and matplotlib bindings for Haskell too, so one could use them from Haskell if one wanted... |
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| 14:21:09 | <exarkun> | And I guess the matplotlib "bindings" work by generating Python code and then executing it ... because yea, of how else would you do a python ffi... |
| 14:21:09 | <__monty__> | Consensus seemed to be this is just something where you shouldn't do it in haskell unless you have to. |
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| 14:22:19 | <exarkun> | Chart looks like it might be enough for my simple purposes... and half the purpose is haskell practice, so maybe I'll give that a try |
| 14:22:35 | <exarkun> | I've had enough gnuplot and matplotlib practice by now :) |
| 14:23:42 | <__monty__> | Maybe part of the practice can be contributing to Chart so it becomes a better option ; ) |
| 14:24:19 | <exarkun> | maybe! |
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| 14:36:48 | <frdg> | I am making a parser to parse ip addresses. I am having trouble figuring how to say "parse either and integer or a dot AND if I parse and integer turn it into a string" This implementation is somewhat close. The problem is that I cannot figure out how to `show` the integers: http://dpaste.com/7YU7CE8QA |
| 14:37:24 | <frdg> | my ip's terminate with a "\t" |
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| 14:39:16 | <exarkun> | frdg: Maybe you want a `sepBy` approach instead of `<|>` |
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| 14:41:12 | <frdg> | I haven't heard of sepBy before |
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| 14:41:29 | <frdg> | I am guessing at a high level I want to sepBy "."? |
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| 14:41:55 | <exarkun> | I would think so, yea. You get two benefits from that. |
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| 14:43:42 | <__monty__> | frdg: Parser a is a Functor so you can fmap over it. `show <$> P.integer` would give you a parser which parses an integer and then applies show to it. |
| 14:44:14 | <__monty__> | Though if you want a string why not `satisfy isDigit`? |
| 14:44:15 | <noop_noob> | __monty__, I assume you wanted `many1 digit`? |
| 14:44:21 | <noop_noob> | lol |
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| 14:44:56 | <__monty__> | Don't want anything in particular rn, thanks for the offer. |
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| 14:46:20 | <frdg> | _monty_: `ip <- P.many ((show <$> P.integer) <|> P.string ".")` gives the desired behavior thanks. |
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| 14:47:32 | <noop_noob> | frdg, FYI, that code will accept "....." as a valid IP |
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| 14:47:42 | <noop_noob> | And it will accept empty string |
| 14:48:04 | <frdg> | oh so that is probably why sepBy is better? |
| 14:48:13 | <noop_noob> | Yeah. |
| 14:48:31 | <frdg> | ok that makes sense |
| 14:48:47 | <noop_noob> | And FYI IP addresses, even only IPv4, can have other formats, I believe. |
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| 14:49:13 | <noop_noob> | Putting http://127.1/ into chrome sends me to 127.0.0.1 |
| 14:49:18 | <noop_noob> | Not sure if that's chrome-specific |
| 14:49:24 | <__monty__> | You should make sure to parse missing components as something btw. It's important which numbers were missing afaik? |
| 14:49:44 | <geekosaur> | not sure most people care about e.g. classful parsing any more. or hex format, etc. |
| 14:49:52 | <noop_noob> | I guess the X.X.X.X is good enough for most purposes lol |
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| 14:50:28 | <__monty__> | Or maybe you didn't intend to allow missing components at all. |
| 14:50:54 | <__monty__> | I was thinking "Huh, didn't know IPv4 had elision the same way IPv6 does." |
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| 14:52:10 | <SwarmCollective> | (read <$> splitOn "." x :: [Int]) Using package split. [192,168,0,1] from "192.168.0.1". Though you probably want something more robust. |
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| 14:52:33 | <noop_noob> | Even more cursed: Chrome redirects http://0177.1/ to 127.0.0.1 |
| 14:53:17 | <noop_noob> | Why not just `P.sepBy P.integer (P.string ".")` |
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| 14:53:55 | <__monty__> | I'd even hardcode parsing four components. You have to check anyway. |
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| 14:56:33 | <exarkun> | oh no, lens |
| 14:56:33 | <noop_noob> | Just accept a string and match it with a regex lmao |
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| 15:07:26 | <int-e> | noop_noob: all according to https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/ |
| 15:08:30 | <int-e> | noop_noob: so you can use http://2130706433/ as well |
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| 15:08:43 | <noop_noob> | what |
| 15:08:59 | <noop_noob> | wtfffffffff |
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| 15:09:48 | <int-e> | (Is there an RFC specifying this as well, or is this really a POSIX thing? I don't know.) |
| 15:09:48 | <jkaye[m]> | If you want to know if an ip address is valid, ping it 🙂 |
| 15:09:50 | <merijn> | I missed the discussion, but I feel pretty confident stating that "match it with a regex" is wrong in a solid 95-99% of all problems |
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| 15:10:16 | <merijn> | jkaye[m]: Define "valid" :p |
| 15:10:36 | <jkaye[m]> | merijn: agreed. It's usually only correct when you're the one defining the data that you're parsing |
| 15:10:51 | <jkaye[m]> | Haha, valid = "works right now". Also probably wrong! |
| 15:10:57 | <merijn> | Well, an IP address can be valid yet unpingable |
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| 15:11:17 | <jkaye[m]> | For some definitions of valid, you are 100% correct |
| 15:11:21 | <jkaye[m]> | Turns out the real world sucks! |
| 15:11:24 | <jkaye[m]> | Who would've guessed |
| 15:11:36 | <merijn> | 10.0.0.5 is clearly a valid IPv4 address, but good luck pinging that if your home network is on a 192.168.x.x range as most are :p |
| 15:11:44 | <noop_noob> | Chrome accepts "http://2130706433/ " as a URL |
| 15:11:50 | <noop_noob> | Valid enough for me lol |
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| 16:13:01 | <ephemient> | https://blog.fhrnet.eu/2020/05/12/having-fun-with-unusual-ipv4-formats/ |
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| 16:13:31 | <ephemient> | also http://127.1 etc. |
| 16:14:11 | <Uniaika> | :-D |
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| 16:15:23 | <pjb> | Yep. |
| 16:15:28 | <pjb> | little known fact. |
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| 16:21:49 | <Ariakenom> | underselling ipv6 at the end tho |
| 16:22:50 | <sm[m]> | exarkun: there are some others worth looking at, hvega is one |
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| 16:23:13 | <sm[m]> | and chart-svg |
| 16:24:49 | <sm[m]> | look at those beautiful docs.. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hvega-0.11.0.0/docs/Graphics-Vega-Tutorials-VegaLite.html |
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| 16:31:06 | <exarkun> | Those are indeed some very nice docs |
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| 17:16:50 | <idnar> | @hoogle Alternative f => f Bool -> f () |
| 17:16:51 | <lambdabot> | Data.Attoparsec.ByteString skipMany :: Alternative f => f a -> f () |
| 17:16:51 | <lambdabot> | Data.Attoparsec.ByteString skipMany1 :: Alternative f => f a -> f () |
| 17:16:51 | <lambdabot> | Data.Attoparsec.ByteString.Char8 skipMany :: Alternative f => f a -> f () |
| 17:17:01 | <idnar> | @hoogle Alternative f => Bool -> f () |
| 17:17:02 | <lambdabot> | Control.Monad guard :: Alternative f => Bool -> f () |
| 17:17:03 | <lambdabot> | Control.Monad.Compat guard :: Alternative f => Bool -> f () |
| 17:17:03 | <lambdabot> | Protolude.Monad guard :: Alternative f => Bool -> f () |
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| 17:18:46 | <idnar> | oh |
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| 17:19:17 | <idnar> | @hoogle MonadPlus f => f Bool -> f () |
| 17:19:18 | <lambdabot> | Protolude guardM :: MonadPlus m => m Bool -> m () |
| 17:19:18 | <lambdabot> | Protolude.Bool guardM :: MonadPlus m => m Bool -> m () |
| 17:19:18 | <lambdabot> | Relude.Bool.Guard guardM :: MonadPlus m => m Bool -> m () |
| 17:19:54 | <ski> | @type (guard =<<) |
| 17:19:55 | <lambdabot> | (Monad m, Alternative m) => m Bool -> m () |
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| 17:20:48 | <ski> | @hoogle MonadPlus m => Bool -> m () |
| 17:20:49 | <lambdabot> | Control.Error.Safe assertZ :: (MonadPlus m) => Bool -> m () |
| 17:20:49 | <lambdabot> | Control.Conditional guard :: (ToBool bool, MonadPlus m) => bool -> m () |
| 17:20:49 | <lambdabot> | Data.Generator.Combinators msum :: (Generator c, MonadPlus m, m a ~ Elem c) => c -> m a |
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| 17:24:39 | <idnar> | guardM was what I was thinking of |
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| 17:29:28 | <idnar> | do tm <- registerDelay d; atomically $ Just <$> act <|> Nothing <$ guardM (readTVar tm) |
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| 17:46:20 | <ski> | idnar : is it RT ? |
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| 17:50:28 | <idnar> | RT? |
| 17:51:01 | <ski> | Referentially Transparent |
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| 17:53:06 | <ski> | by which i mean, for a monad `M', `f :: M T -> M U' is RT iff there exists some `g :: T -> M U' such that `f = (g =<<)'. this condition is equivalent to `f act = do val <- act; f (return val)', and the `g' in the former version must be `f . return' |
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| 17:53:25 | <idnar> | ah |
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| 17:54:41 | <idnar> | guardM f = f >>= guard |
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| 17:55:10 | <frdg`> | I do not understand why I am getting this behavior from `P.sepBy (P.some P.anyChar)` while parsing mac addresses: http://dpaste.com/G56XGMYYS |
| 17:55:13 | <ski> | iow, the context `f (...)' around the sub-expression `...' is (referentially) *transparent* in the effects that it describes, so that we could just as well have expressed it as `do val <- ...; f (return val)', lifting the (possibly) effectful subcomputation out of its context |
| 17:55:26 | <ski> | idnar : yes, that answers it in the affirmative |
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| 17:56:06 | <ski> | `forkIO :: IO () -> IO ThreadId' is an example of a non-RT action-transformer / context |
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| 17:56:26 | <idnar> | I see |
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| 17:57:33 | <ski> | usually, one doesn't want to pass actions as parameters to operations, unless the operation uses the action in some "serious" (iow, referentially opaque) way, because if it's trivial, one could just as well run the action oneself, upfront |
| 17:57:56 | <ski> | but things like `guardM' are exceptions to this, motivated by convenience |
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| 17:58:36 | <ski> | (also, obviously `(>>=)' itself is an exception, since it's the means by which one could avoid other trivial uses) |
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| 18:01:03 | <ski> | for idioms, one could argue that writing `f :: I T -> I U' rather than `g :: I (T -> U)' is also trivial / RT, in case `f = (g <*>)' |
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| 18:01:48 | <ski> | (which makes one wonder how common either of those two shapes of types are in the wild, and the relative frequency between them) |
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| 18:05:20 | <ski> | frdg``` : try excluding colon from the allowed characters between the separators ? |
| 18:05:51 | <frdg```> | ski: ohhh thats what is happening |
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| 18:26:55 | <fradet> | -+-+ |
| 18:26:56 | <fradet> | ---++++++ |
| 18:28:23 | <fradet> | sorry, my screen fell on the keyboard |
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| 19:48:18 | <desophos> | hi, i have a record field that i generate with Gen and i'd like to end up with a Gen record instead of a Gen field, but i don't know how to do this with a record: https://gist.github.com/desophos/353969a985966b5addeeda7101eec205 |
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| 19:50:56 | <lyxia> | desophos: f = R <$> arbitrary |
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| 19:51:35 | <desophos> | <$> applies record fields?? |
| 19:52:19 | <ezrakilty> | <$> lifts an arbitrary function into the monad or applicative-functor! |
| 19:53:06 | <ezrakilty> | Another bit of surprise there might be that record fields don't need to be named, and you can write for example R 7 to get a record with 7 for the x field |
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| 19:54:21 | <ezrakilty> | In a more general case, you'll probably write things like "do x <- chooseAny ; y <- chooseAny ; return (R {x = x ; y = y})" |
| 19:54:21 | <desophos> | hmm... what about with record update syntax? |
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| 19:56:56 | <desophos> | my actual code has a record with multiple fields, one of which is updated with a Gen value |
| 19:57:46 | <ezrakilty> | See my "more general case" |
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| 19:58:15 | <desophos> | hmm, interesting |
| 19:58:30 | <Clint> | how are you populating the other fields? |
| 19:58:32 | <ezrakilty> | "do x <- chooseAny ; return (R { x = y ; y = 7 })" would work, if you don't want to generate y. Or you could compute y relative to the generated x |
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| 20:01:34 | <desophos> | the other fields are just plain values and functions that are populated previously |
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| 20:01:54 | <desophos> | this function updates one field with a Gen value |
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| 20:02:15 | <desophos> | i can post the actual code if that would help, but i think i understand what i need to do |
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| 20:02:42 | <ski> | ".. into the monad or applicative-functor!" -- or plain functor |
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| 20:05:01 | <ezrakilty> | Yes, thanks ski |
| 20:05:41 | <ski> | f = (\xVal -> myR {x = xVal}) <$> arbitrary -- "hmm... what about with record update syntax?" |
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| 20:06:30 | <desophos> | right, makes sense |
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| 20:08:13 | <desophos> | thanks! i understand |
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| 20:56:10 | <frdg> | is there a way with parser combinators to say `parse some pattern N times`? For example I want to say `parse two numbers and a semicolon 4 times`. |
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| 20:59:36 | <frdg> | another example is with ip addresss I would much rather say `parse an integer and a dot 3 times then parse an integer` than I would this: http://dpaste.com/BZGRNUNWN |
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| 21:01:03 | <geekosaur> | replicateM? |
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| 21:02:02 | <frdg> | thanks ill try this |
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| 21:09:56 | <ephemient> | sequence $ transpose [replicate 4 (show <$> P.integer), replicate 3 (P.string ".")] |
| 21:10:08 | <ephemient> | wait I forgot a concat in there |
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| 21:11:15 | <geekosaur> | this is the kind of overly clever code that they won't be able to understand a month from now :) |
| 21:12:20 | ski | sometimes defines `(/\/) :: [a] -> [a] -> [a]' (interleave) |
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| 21:14:16 | <MarcelineVQ> | intercalate "." <$> replicateM 4 (show <$> P.integer <* P.string ".") |
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| 21:15:36 | <MarcelineVQ> | ah hmm, ends with a dot in that versionm, nvm :> |
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| 21:17:32 | <MarcelineVQ> | if you really want to confuse yourself you can use sepBy and similar combinators for the '.' part :X |
| 21:17:36 | <ski> | (intercalate "." . sequence) (intersperse (P.string ".") (replicate 4 (show <$> P.integer))) |
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| 21:18:59 | <ski> | ah, need `<$>' too, of course |
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| 21:20:05 | <ski> | @. hoogle type \f -> fmap f . sequence |
| 21:20:07 | <lambdabot> | Data.Distributive comapM :: (Distributive g, Monad m) => (m a -> b) -> m (g a) -> g b |
| 21:20:10 | <ski> | hm |
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| 22:52:28 | <koz_> | Suppose I have Foo with an Enum instance. Is there a way to generate all possible lists of length n full of Foos? |
| 22:52:37 | <koz_> | Order is unimportant. |
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| 22:55:52 | <koz_> | Apparently, replicateM n [minBound .. maxBound] will do |
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| 23:00:15 | <ephemient> | more than once I've wanted a enumValues = [minBound..maxBound] :: (Bounded a, Enum a) => [a] |
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| 23:06:29 | <ski> | > replicateM 3 "01" |
| 23:06:30 | <lambdabot> | ["000","001","010","011","100","101","110","111"] |
| 23:07:14 | <ski> | > filterM (const [False,True]) "012" |
| 23:07:15 | <lambdabot> | ["","2","1","12","0","02","01","012"] |
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| 23:11:40 | <ski> | > sequence ["01","ab","+-"] |
| 23:11:41 | <lambdabot> | ["0a+","0a-","0b+","0b-","1a+","1a-","1b+","1b-"] |
| 23:11:56 | ski | . o O ( `replicateM :: forall (m :: Nat). (n ::) Nat -> a^m -> (a^n)^(m^n)' ) |
| 23:12:31 | ski | . o O ( `sequence :: forall (m :: Nat) (n :: Nat). (a^m)^n -> (a^n)^(m^n)' ) |
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| 23:16:16 | <dolio> | monochrom: QED: https://cs.stackexchange.com/q/123763/93254 |
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| 23:16:40 | <monochrom> | Yikes |
| 23:17:36 | <dolio> | Oh, apparently that was asked much longer ago than I thought. Someone must have bumped it. |
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| 23:21:16 | <ski> | (bumped ?) |
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| 23:21:50 | <dolio> | Did something to put it back in the 'recent questions' list. |
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| 23:22:26 | <dolio> | Or, 'hot questions'. |
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| 23:32:15 | <frdg> | Is it possible to pattern match with a lambda? For example I want to say something in the realm of `\Just x -> x OR \Nothing -> error`, similar to how I could do it with a named function. |
| 23:34:14 | <ezrakilty> | You can do so with a single case, but not I think with more than one |
| 23:34:21 | <dolio> | LambdaCase is close if you want multiple cases. |
| 23:34:22 | <ezrakilty> | e.g. \(Just x) -> x |
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| 23:35:16 | <frdg> | ok Ill look at LambdaCase. or just name the function. |
| 23:35:21 | <ephemient> | :t fromJust |
| 23:35:22 | <lambdabot> | Maybe a -> a |
| 23:35:42 | <ephemient> | (if you literally want Just x -> x and Nothing -> error) |
| 23:36:08 | <frdg> | unfortuantely that was just an example |
| 23:38:39 | <ephemient> | LambdaCase is fine then. I'm kinda sad it didn't end up making the cut for -XGHC2021 |
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| 23:41:46 | <frdg> | would something that makes the cut for -XGHC2021 be included without needing a pragma? |
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All times are in UTC on 2021-01-30.