Logs on 2021-02-01 (freenode/#haskell)

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00:12:10	<recursion_ninja>	@djinn f :: Applicative m => (a -> b -> c) -> m a -> m (x -> b) -> m (x -> c)
00:12:10	<lambdabot>	Cannot parse command
00:12:21	<recursion_ninja>	@djinn Applicative m => (a -> b -> c) -> m a -> m (x -> b) -> m (x -> c)
00:12:21	<lambdabot>	Error: Class not found: Applicative
00:12:47	<recursion_ninja>	@djinn Applicative m => (a -> b -> c) -> m a -> m (x -> b) -> m (x -> c)
00:12:48	<lambdabot>	Error: Class not found: Applicative
00:13:08	<recursion_ninja>	I guess Djinn doesn't know about Applicatives :(
00:13:19	<ski>	it doesn't
00:13:22	<ski>	@djinn-env
00:13:23	<lambdabot>	data () = ()
00:13:23	<lambdabot>	data Either a b = Left a \| Right b
00:13:23	<lambdabot>	data Maybe a = Nothing \| Just a
00:13:23	<lambdabot>	data Bool = False \| True
00:13:23	<lambdabot>	data Void
00:13:25	<lambdabot>	[3 @more lines]
00:13:27	<ski>	@more
00:13:27	<lambdabot>	type Not x = x -> Void
00:13:29	<lambdabot>	class Monad m where return :: a -> m a; (>>=) :: m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b
00:13:31	<lambdabot>	class Eq a where (==) :: a -> a -> Bool
00:14:01	<recursion_ninja>	@djinn Monad m => (a -> b -> c) -> m a -> m (x -> b) -> m (x -> c)
00:14:01	<lambdabot>	-- f cannot be realized.
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00:17:07	<ski>	@type \f ma mxb -> (\a xb -> f a . xb) <$> ma <*> mxb
00:17:08	<lambdabot>	Applicative f => (t -> b -> c) -> f t -> f (a -> b) -> f (a -> c)
00:17:13	<ski>	oh, they left
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01:05:04	<frdg>	In my program I need to listen for output from a program that runs indefinetly and prints output to the terminal. Any reccomendations for how to constantly read this output?
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01:11:45	<hpc>	createProcess
01:12:13	<hpc>	it's non-blocking, and the subprocess's std* are available as Handles
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01:12:53	<frdg>	ok nice thanks
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01:33:38	<nij>	Has anyone read the paper \Notions of computation and monads-[Eugenio Moggi]\ before? I wonder what's the point of it?
01:34:15	<nij>	Some of my background: a mathematician who are comfortable with basic category theory. Know what a monad is as it is mathematically.
01:34:39	<nij>	But.. for many times this paper has been mentioned in this (or other FP) community.
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01:35:22	<nij>	I'm sure I can follow each detail of it if I pay the work.. but I'd rather know what the point is first. So if someone has some advice, I'd appreciate a lot :-) Thanks!
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01:47:18	<ski>	the point being that it's useful to model computational effects of programming languages with monads ?
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01:48:02	<c_wraith>	It actually seems a bit stronger: That's it's just plain good to model computation with Kleisli categories, and oh whoops, monads!
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01:48:47	<ski>	monads (in general) express a notion of sequencing (just as monoids do). composition of effects often depend on sequencing order
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01:49:10	<ski>	(applicative functors express a weaker notion of sequencing)
01:50:10	<ski>	(and later, Wadler discovered that it can also be useful to model effects within a programming language, by using monads)
01:50:54	<nij>	so, what does the word "model" mean here? I think that's the source of confusion for me.
01:54:02	<ski>	btw, as an application of monads in another context, "Monads for natural language semantics" by Chung-chieh Shan in 2002-05-17 at <https://arxiv.org/abs/cs/0205026> might perhaps be interesting. (he's also written about using continuations to model phenomena in natural languages, and about linguistic side-effects, see <http://homes.sice.indiana.edu/ccshan/>)
01:55:26	<ski>	nij : denotational semantics aims to give mathematical meaning to phrases in programming languages by (compositionally) mapping them into mathematical structures
01:55:49	<nij>	but.. what is "model"?
01:56:18	<ski>	"give a rigorous elaboration of" ?
01:56:20	<nij>	I can feel the correspondence between the algebra (monad) and the applications (logic, computations, .. etc)..
01:57:07	<c_wraith>	a model is a simplified system with precise properties. They aren't the thing, they're a useful way to describe behavior of a thing.
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02:01:22	<nij>	i see
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02:35:46	<samba1>	I have a question about using MonadUnliftIO functions within a freer-effects context, here's a paste that describes it: https://pastebin.com/LM69aEMA
02:36:40	<samba1>	Basically working within an effect context, but calling an pooledForConcurrentlyN_ (MonadUnliftIO) on something that does an IO effect (rather than "normal" IO)
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02:55:40	<samba1>	I could use forConcurrently alternatively, if the just IO is easier. But the question remains, how to do that. Do I need to do an explicit interpret? Seems wrong
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03:51:02	<koz_>	I just realized that if I have a newtype called 'Unsafe', I would have to have its 'accessor' be 'unUnsafe', which is 'safe'?
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03:53:30	<Tops21>	why not runUnsafe? ;)
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03:53:54	<Tops21>	I mean it's also runState
03:54:04	<koz_>	And runIdentity.
03:54:11	<koz_>	I guess it works too.
03:54:23	<koz_>	'getX' is also a convention.
03:54:27	<koz_>	getUnsafe rofl.
03:57:10	ski	. o O ( `runsafe' )
03:57:41	<Axman6>	rUnsafe
03:57:50	<koz_>	rUUnsafe?
03:58:01	<Tops21>	aaaand it's safe again
03:58:18	<Axman6>	gUnsafe (g = get)
03:58:22	<Axman6>	pew pew
03:58:50	<orzo>	somebody should write up a ghc-proposal about this
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04:11:31	<ski>	runSafe
04:11:43	<ski>	is it unsafe to construct, but safe to deconstruct ?
04:11:58	<Axman6>	runUnUnberellaEllaEllaEhEh
04:12:17	<koz_>	Axman6: That's the run function of 'newtype Rihanna a'.
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04:20:36	<MarcelineVQ>	runSafe
04:20:50	<MarcelineVQ>	ski: darn yous!
04:21:21	<Axman6>	koz_: newtype Rhianna eh
04:22:53	<MarcelineVQ>	newtype DeathGrips eh = forall b. WhoYouThinkYouAre (b -> eh)
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04:24:14	ski	. o O ( `rumberhulk' )
04:26:10	<koz_>	Does 'manyTill foo end' consume whatever 'end' parses?
04:27:14	<MarcelineVQ>	immediate instinct is yes, but whom'st's manyTill?
04:27:25	<koz_>	MarcelineVQ: parsec's.
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04:32:46	<MarcelineVQ>	parseTest (manyTill (char 'f') (char 's') *> char 's') "ffs"
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05:18:16	<h2017>	hi
05:18:24	<h2017>	i'm not sure how to use hoogle
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05:19:24	<h2017>	i put in s -> m (a, s) and i would like it if some results pertaining to StateT came up but nothing comes up
05:19:29	<h2017>	what am i doing wrong?
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05:37:40	<slack1256>	h2017: You need to put a :: before searching type signatures
05:37:52	<slack1256>	Otherwise it tries to search by name IIRC.
05:38:24	<slack1256>	https://hoogle.haskell.org/?hoogle=%3A%3A%20MonadState%20k%20m%20%3D%3E%20k%20-%3E%20m%20()&scope=set%3Ahaskell-platform
05:38:28	<glguy>	h2017, I think it only matches the whole type, so you'd want something like "s -> m ()"
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05:39:27	<glguy>	or "(s -> (a, s)) -> StateT s m a"
05:39:48	<slack1256>	https://hoogle.haskell.org/?hoogle=%3A%3A+s+-%3E+m+%28%29&scope=set%3Ahaskell-platform
05:40:20	<slack1256>	I think the " can be omitted, but the :: has been helpful to force it to search type signatures.
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05:57:01	<d34df00d>	I must be late in the evening and having a stupid question, but
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05:57:41	<d34df00d>	I'm doing roughly start <- liftIO getCPUTime; liftIO (threadDelay 1000000); end <- liftIO getCPUTime; and computing end - start
05:57:58	<d34df00d>	I'm getting 72475896000, which seems to be about 72 milliseconds.
05:58:10	<d34df00d>	Isn't threadDelay 1000000 guarantee at least a second delay?
05:59:04	<MarcelineVQ>	sure but cpu is sleepin maybe, is CPUTime the time you want to be tracking?
06:00:05	<d34df00d>	Oh.
06:00:06	<d34df00d>	Dang.
06:00:08	<d34df00d>	Right.
06:00:15	<d34df00d>	I'm stupid and gotta go to sleep.
06:00:18	<d34df00d>	Thanks!
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07:48:31	<ij>	Would anyone be interested to review? https://github.com/siers/ppmz/
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10:32:43	<ArsenArsen>	hey! why does cabal rebuild libraries that I installed via dnf (ghc-hakyll specifically)
10:32:46	<ArsenArsen>	and it's deps
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10:34:56	<dminuoso>	Say I have `data RG = RG_Red \| RG_Green` and `data RGB = RGB_Red \| RGB_Green \| RGB_Blue`, is there a handwaving name for `RG -> RGB`?
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10:35:18	<dminuoso>	The question is not particualr to the choice of color here, Im trying to find something generic that sort of "injects" a sum type into a larger sum type
10:35:53	<dminuoso>	It's slightly more than just an injection, since it's of course implicitly assumed that `f RG_Red = RGB_Red` etc
10:37:38	<dminuoso>	And similarly, the dual going from `data ABC = ABC { a :: Int, b :: Char, c :: Float }` to `data AB = AB { a :: Int, b :: Char }`
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10:38:40	<dminuoso>	Right now, Ive been using `raise/raiseRG` and `lower/lowerABC` - just not sure whether there's something more adequate or idiomatic
10:40:47	<merijn>	ArsenArsen: What is dnf?
10:41:35	<shiraeeshi>	dminuoso: in a dynamically typed language you would only have one type - the wider one
10:42:05	<shiraeeshi>	dminuoso: that way you wouldn't have to bother with conversions
10:42:08	<ArsenArsen>	merijn: it's fedoras package manager
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10:43:23	<merijn>	ArsenArsen: Well, the obvious reason would be "dnf didn't install the package into the global package database", which tbh, is probably the right call, because installing packages into the global package database is a great way to get a trip to unhappy town
10:43:37	<lortabac>	dminuoso: upcast/downcast o inject/project
10:44:24	<ArsenArsen>	merijn: well, I might need to figure out a way to correct that then, because I'd like to not rebuild pandoc every time I push a commit :^)
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10:44:36	<shiraeeshi>	dminuoso: in scala there are implicits, they allow implicitly invoking a conversion function by specifying the needed type
10:44:37	<merijn>	ArsenArsen: If you've got a package in the global package database, that will restrict the possible versions of anything you ever wanna use
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10:45:24	<lortabac>	dminuoso: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/generic-lens-2.1.0.0/docs/Data-Generics-Sum-Subtype.html
10:45:24	<ArsenArsen>	that's fine for this use-case
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10:45:27	<__monty__>	ArsenArsen: If you're rebuilding pandoc for every commit you'll have to rebuild pandoc for every commit. Cabal doesn't rebuild anything unless it has to.
10:45:34	<merijn>	ArsenArsen: It should only build your dependencies once
10:45:48	<ArsenArsen>	maybe I need to install ghc-hakyll-devel, I'll try that
10:45:59	<ArsenArsen>	merijn __monty__: yes, but I can't cache those deps across CI runs
10:46:14	<merijn>	Why not?
10:46:38	<ArsenArsen>	limitations of the platform
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10:50:51	<shiraeeshi>	:lortabac, so can I say that lens are about conversions?
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10:55:05	<Franciman>	shiraeeshi, they are about adapting
10:55:13	<Franciman>	and so also conversion
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10:59:40	<dminuoso>	lortabac: Mmm, and super/upcast/smash for products. Thanks, those could actually work. In fact, Im tempted to even use this library now. :)
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11:30:59	<shiraeeshi>	mmm, ravioli. what's in my pocket-oli
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11:31:51	<shiraeeshi>	here is a question: do you consider the need of explicit conversions a drawback of a language?
11:32:39	<shiraeeshi>	or do you get rid of them somehow?
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11:36:57	<jle`>	i would say that it's useful in some situations and not so much in others; it's not a clear-cut drawback as much as it is a trade
11:37:13	<jle`>	becuase you gain things from it that can be useful in different situations
11:37:24	<jle`>	so in those situations, it's an advantage
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11:51:53	<__monty__>	Explicit conversions are often simple while semantic issues because of missing or superfluous components can be hard to track down.
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12:18:15	<kuribas>	hmm, mtl is quite nice to work with when you get used to it...
12:18:36	<kuribas>	that is, I use it to "plumb" my own combinators and monad stacks.
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12:19:56	<kuribas>	I have not yet felt the "need" for other effect-systems...
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12:25:55	<dminuoso>	shiraeeshi: Are a prime example of how unclear it is. It could be argued, that explicit conversions reduce bugs in many cases. This seems obvious and intuitive at first.
12:26:17	<dminuoso>	After all, if you cant accidentally confuse two value types and must explicitly convert between them, then you consciously deal with the value types and conversion thresholds.
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12:26:57	<dminuoso>	But Haskell has the largest counter-example: fromIntegral/realToFrac are just utter non-sense. The numeric system in Haskell might as well do implicit conversions C-style, because the explicit conversions in Haskell do not help at all.
12:28:01	<kuribas>	dminuoso: they help a little
12:28:13	<kuribas>	because you know where the conversion is taking place
12:28:30	<kuribas>	which is not that obvious in C
12:28:32	<merijn>	Still
12:28:34	<dminuoso>	That knowledge is only useful if you could reasonably act on narrowing.
12:28:37	<merijn>	fromIntegral is kinda shite
12:30:57	<kuribas>	you mean like dividing fromIntegral into a safe fromIntegral, and an unsafe one?
12:31:03	<dminuoso>	The thing is, without fromIntegral you can't make things fit. With it, narrowing bugs occur. Now you could use toIntegralSized, but dealing with the Maybe breaks much of the comfort and you have a real performance hurdle now.
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12:32:07	<dminuoso>	kuribas: a safe fromIntegral that has static type checking for whether the conversion is safe, yes.
12:32:11	<dminuoso>	int-cast has the facilities for that
12:32:21	<dminuoso>	intCast :: (Integral a, Integral b, IsIntSubType a b ~ True) => a -> b
12:32:26	<merijn>	kuribas: What I mean is that "the one time I had to fix a bug in the GHC RTS related to fromIntegral the first 2 merged and reviewed fixes were wrong, because fromIntegral is nearly impossible to use safely"
12:32:53	<kuribas>	merijn: well, my take is that it's not meant to be used safely...
12:33:05	<dminuoso>	If anything, Haskell shows how bad it is to have a wealth of numeric types.
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12:33:16	<kuribas>	it's basically an unsafe function for doing performant conversions.
12:33:28	<merijn>	kuribas: You'd want at least something "fromIntegral :: (Integral a, Integral b) => a -> Either (b, a) b
12:33:40	<merijn>	kuribas: You should be able to statically check conversion is safe
12:33:50	<dminuoso>	hence: int-cast
12:34:04	<kuribas>	In my db library I do a bounds check and generate a runtime error on underflow/overflow
12:34:07	<merijn>	kuribas: There is zero reason why a "safe" version would necessarily be any less performant
12:34:08	<dminuoso>	If you value code correctness and deal with numeric types, chances are you should use it
12:34:21	<merijn>	kuribas: Bounds checking fromIntegral is nearly impossible
12:34:22	<kuribas>	merijn: because of not doing bound checks?
12:34:34	<kuribas>	merijn: I use minBound and maxBound
12:34:44	<merijn>	kuribas: You pretend this is easy
12:34:58	<merijn>	kuribas: Like I said: I had a fix in the GHC RTS that was reviewed by 2 GHC committers
12:35:05	<merijn>	kuribas: It was still wrong 2 times
12:35:20	<kuribas>	why does programming have to be easy?
12:35:21	<merijn>	The current code has more comment lines than code to prove the code is safe
12:35:32	<merijn>	kuribas: Because there is no reason why this should be hard
12:35:33	<kuribas>	types cannot solve any programming problem...
12:36:00	<merijn>	kuribas: Can you pastebin your bounds checking using minBound/maxBound?
12:36:03	<kuribas>	but fromIntegral is there to stay. Then we need a library which provides a safer way.
12:36:52	<kuribas>	merijn: https://github.com/kuribas/hasqlator-mysql/blob/main/src/Database/MySQL/Hasqlator.hs#L562
12:36:58	<merijn>	My Bayesian prior is that everyone's bounds checking code is wrong until proven otherwise :p
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12:38:14	<kuribas>	merijn: feel free to find a bug :)
12:38:25	<merijn>	kuribas: The first case is already broken
12:38:39	<merijn>	On line 564
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12:39:00	<merijn>	If the minBound of 'a' is smaller than "minBound :: Int64"
12:39:17	<merijn>	You'll convert to a massively bigger number
12:39:31	<merijn>	> (minBound :: Int64) - 1
12:39:32	<lambdabot>	9223372036854775807
12:39:43	<kuribas>	merijn: but it isn't smaller
12:39:57	<merijn>	kuribas: How do you know?
12:40:04	<kuribas>	because it's an internal function
12:40:35	<kuribas>	so it's only called on a fixed set of types.
12:40:36	<merijn>	kuribas: https://github.com/kuribas/hasqlator-mysql/blob/main/src/Database/MySQL/Hasqlator.hs#L614-L615
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12:40:56	<kuribas>	merijn: yes?
12:41:01	<merijn>	> fromIntegral (-9223372036854775809 :: Integer) :: Int64
12:41:03	<lambdabot>	9223372036854775807
12:41:08	<kuribas>	merijn: that one doesn't do bounds checking
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13:09:57	<kuribas>	merijn: I guess your silence means it bugfree? :)
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13:12:04	<arahael>	crickets.
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13:13:13	<merijn>	kuribas: Silence means "my mom dropped in because her car got totalled" :p
13:13:31	<kuribas>	okay... erm what?
13:13:50	<merijn>	Icy roads today :p
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13:15:11	<arahael>	merijn: Someone clearly didn't use haskell to design those roads! (Seriously though, that's nuts! How is getting cars totaled on icy roads normalised? :O)
13:15:33	arahael	points out that he doesn't usually have icy roads in his country, so this is totally out of his experience.
13:15:41	<merijn>	Probably a bit off-topic here :p
13:15:53	<arahael>	Heh. Fair.
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13:54:08	<jacks2>	hi. is there alternative to using unsafePerformIO for creating global IORef or TVar?
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13:58:34	<merijn>	You mean besides "don't"?
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13:59:34	<jacks2>	yes besides don't
13:59:41	<jacks2>	no other way to create global reference?
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14:00:44	<Franciman>	jacks2, you may benefit from a reader monad
14:00:49	<Franciman>	in which you put your IORef
14:00:57	<Franciman>	you define the IORef in main
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14:01:12	<Franciman>	and then execute the rest of your life in a ReaderT IORef WahteverYouWant
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14:02:15	<hololeap>	can you make `cabal repl` bring all your modules into scope?
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14:04:32	<jacks2>	Franciman, yeah, I'm familiar with alternatives. but my question is, if you want to make top-level ref, unsafePerform is the only way to do it?
14:04:50	<Franciman>	ehe yes
14:04:54	<merijn>	jacks2: Yes
14:05:06	<Franciman>	a proof of this is that you need to watch all functions that return an IORef
14:05:13	<Franciman>	they are all IO computations
14:05:19	<Franciman>	as they must be
14:05:37	<Franciman>	otherwise let us just mix and match effects
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14:08:19	<hololeap>	anybody? i would think this is a common question but i had a hard time searching for it.
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14:08:50	<Franciman>	sorry hololeap, I don't know
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14:09:24	<geekosaur>	it comes up every couple weeks in here and the answer always seems to be "you can't really"
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14:10:05	<geekosaur>	ghci is pretty limited and neither cabal repl nor stack ghci can work around those limitations very well
14:10:14	<merijn>	I mean, conceptually it could work in Haskell
14:10:31	<merijn>	In practice GHC doesn't support it and that's good, actually
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14:11:58	<ij>	:l file works pretty well, doesn't it?
14:12:09	<tdammers>	the argument against a top-level unsafePerformIO are the same as the arguments against singletons (in the imperative-OOP sense) in, say, Java - "global" is kind of an ill-defined concept on a modern computer system
14:13:00	<tdammers>	the only difference, really, is that Haskell makes them awkward and inconvenient on purpose, while Java makes them look clever
14:13:53	<geekosaur>	ij, it resets everything else in scope
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14:17:06	<kuribas>	tdammers: but global means global on in process, not in the whole computer, right?
14:17:18	<tdammers>	well, that's the question, what does it mean?
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14:17:52	<tdammers>	and also: can you think of something that truly must be globally unique per process?
14:17:56	<tdammers>	because I honestly can't
14:18:05	<kuribas>	no, I prefer ReaderT
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14:18:28	<tdammers>	the only situation where I would consider using this kind of thing is for debugging purposes
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14:19:03	<kuribas>	ReaderT makes it immediately obvious which state is present.
14:19:08	<kuribas>	global state doesn't.
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14:19:43	<tdammers>	ReaderT, IORef ->, doesn't matter so much
14:20:01	<hololeap>	i seem to remember something about a .ghci file. i can't seem to find any info on it
14:20:51	<kuribas>	tdammers: well, ReaderT IORef is basically IORef ->
14:21:17	<kuribas>	but it has convenient instances for Monad, Applicative, etc...
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14:21:28	<geekosaur>	https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/ghci.html#the-ghci-files
14:21:41	<kuribas>	well (->) has them to, but they are obfuscating code.
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14:22:26	<geekosaur>	however you really want to read https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/ghci.html#what-s-really-in-scope-at-the-prompt
14:22:51	<hololeap>	geekosaur: cool, thanks
14:22:54	<geekosaur>	before trying to game it into doing something it really doesn't want to do
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14:31:24	<frdg`>	Does a statement like this in a monad, `(Just x) <- someFunction`, lead to a partial function? someFunction could give back Nothing and that case has not been accounted for.
14:31:53	<merijn>	frdg`: It leads to a MonadFail constraint in recent GHC
14:31:56	<geekosaur>	yes, it induces a MonadFail constraint and if the implicit pattern match failsl invokes `fail`
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14:33:18	<geekosaur>	what `fail` does is specific to the MonadFail (Monad in older ghc) instance; for example in the Maybe monad it produces Mothing and in the list monad produces []
14:33:39	<geekosaur>	but in IO it does a throwIO with the pattern match failure
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14:35:35	<frdg>	oh ok so is MonadFail a typeclass where you define a behavior for fail?
14:36:02	<geekosaur>	or one is defined for you; you don't get to define your own instance for IO, for example, because one is already defined
14:36:26	<frdg>	ok I understand
14:37:20	<dminuoso>	On that note, I wish STM had a MonadFail instance that would retry :)
14:37:39	<dminuoso>	do { Ready <- waitState; ... }
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14:44:55	<int-e>	but nobody makes useful MonadFail instances anymore
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14:47:26	<int-e>	which reminds me that https://hackage.haskell.org/package/mtl-2.2.2/docs/Control-Monad-Error.html is inexplicably deprecated
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14:51:14	<dminuoso>	int-e: https://github.com/haskell/mtl/commit/7a909eff6b342c2f9a2b81e6075941d719e67b86
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14:51:44	<int-e>	(that one has a useful MonadFail instance... which used to be attached to Either in ancient times. Except simply doesn't do the trick.)
14:52:13	<dminuoso>	So the deprecation seems to be just to reflect: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/transformers-0.5.6.2/docs/Control-Monad-Trans-Error.html
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14:55:34	<int-e>	ugh, and it is gertting removed in the next transformers... time to make a replacement package
14:55:38	<merijn>	int-e: It's deprecated to get rid of the Error typeclass restriction
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14:55:53	<merijn>	int-e: And the implicit bias that "left" == error
14:57:29	<int-e>	merijn: but the Error constraint provides functionality
14:58:02	<int-e>	I resent the fact that Except is advertised as a replacement but using it will silently break code in many cases
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14:58:24	<merijn>	How so?
15:03:57	<int-e>	okay, it's not silent, since Identity doesn't have a MonadFail instance. it's still functionality that isn't easily available once ErrorT is removed
15:04:12	<int-e>	> do False <- return True; return () :: ErrorT String Identity ()
15:04:14	<lambdabot>	error:
15:04:14	<lambdabot>	Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘ErrorT’
15:04:18	<merijn>	You can trivially newtype ExceptT and do that
15:04:29	<int-e>	@let import Control.Monad.Error
15:04:31	<lambdabot>	.L.hs:57:1: error: [-Wdeprecations, -Werror=deprecations]
15:04:31	<lambdabot>	Module ‘Control.Monad.Error’ is deprecated:
15:04:31	<lambdabot>	Use "Control.Monad.Except" instead
15:05:08	<int-e>	-Werror=deprecations, hmm
15:05:11	<int-e>	whatever
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15:55:51	<kuribas>	Bah, I had to use generics to make subqueries work...
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15:56:14	<kuribas>	So my library won't be boring haskell anymore...
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15:58:32	<kuribas>	for example: "do (sqName, sqAge) <- subJoin (do Tbl p <- from "Person"; pure (p name, p age)); ...
15:59:21	<kuribas>	it's not possible to suppost any tuple without generics...
16:00:02	<kuribas>	now I have complicated generic magic to convert the expression for any tuple.
16:00:15	<kuribas>	usage should be fairly simple though...
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17:16:56	<sm[m]>	tomsmeding: ping
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17:52:49	<frdg>	I have a Handle to the stdout of a program that I want to constantly read input from that I make with createProcess. It is not clear to me what I should actually do with the Handle. Could I plug it into a Stream? Could I use STM to manage it? What would you reccomend?
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17:53:14	<geekosaur>	fork a thread to read from it?
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17:53:38	<geekosaur>	what exactly are you doing with its output?
17:54:34	<frdg>	I am reading it and calling other IO functions depending on its contents?
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17:55:14	<frdg>	s/?/.
17:55:16	<geekosaur>	is anything else supposed to be going on during this? if not, I'd just read from it and process accordingly
17:55:39	<frdg>	yes I am running parsers on its output
17:55:46	<geekosaur>	when it gets tricky is when you're doing other processing and can't simply block on the Handle; then you need another thread
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17:56:33	<aveltras>	"el ^. dataTableRows" being a list and "dataTableRowExpandedContent" a "Maybe a", what's the way to obtain a Bool value representing if there's at least one item with a "Just" in the list using lens ? I tried "el ^. dataTableRows . dataTableRowExpandedContent ^? _Just" but that doesn't seem to work
17:56:38	<frdg>	what I don't see is how I am actually supposed to get a hold of the output.
17:57:31	<geekosaur>	getLine, getSome, etc.
17:57:39	<geekosaur>	sorry, h* variants thereof
17:57:47	<geekosaur>	:t hGetLine
17:57:49	<lambdabot>	error:
17:57:49	<lambdabot>	• Variable not in scope: hGetLine
17:57:49	<lambdabot>	• Perhaps you meant one of these:
17:57:53	<geekosaur>	bah
17:58:02	<geekosaur>	they're in System.IO
17:58:15	<geekosaur>	:t System.IO.hGetLine
17:58:16	<lambdabot>	GHC.IO.Handle.Types.Handle -> IO String
17:58:24	<geekosaur>	:t System.IO.hGetSome
17:58:26	<lambdabot>	error:
17:58:26	<lambdabot>	Not in scope: ‘System.IO.hGetSome’
17:58:26	<lambdabot>	No module named ‘System.IO’ is imported.
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17:58:57	<geekosaur>	mm, right, I'm being silly
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18:00:22	<frdg>	so if I would have a function like `f :: Handle -> IO (); f = do loop; where loop = l <- hGetLine; doStuff; loop`?
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18:02:03	<geekosaur>	it depends. if there's a framing protocol to e.g. tell you which parser to run, you retrieve that in the loop; otherwise you hand the Handle off to the parser to deal with. attoparsec is often used for this
18:03:00	<frdg>	ok I should be able to get things going here thanks
18:03:10	<geekosaur>	to say more I'd have to know details of the data you're trying to parse, which is probably going too deep for a question here in channel
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18:04:21	<ski>	frdg : fwiw, `(Just x) <- someFunction' can be just `Just x <- someFunction'
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18:07:28	<samba1>	I'm wondering how I can use a freer-effects context function with something that normally wants IO (or MonadUnliftIO) - specifically pooledForConcurrentlyN_
18:07:32	<samba1>	https://pastebin.com/LM69aEMA
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18:08:15	<samba1>	I'd like to run that in an effects context, and give it an effects context function to run as its executor. How can I do this? Do I have to explicitly `interpret` things to force them to IO? Seems cumbersome and contrary to the whole idea of effects
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18:08:30	<samba1>	or do I need to rewrite pooledForConcurrentlyN_ somehow myself?
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19:27:38	<idnar>	aveltras: `el ^? dataTableRows . dataTableRowExpandedContent . _Just`
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19:28:53	<idnar>	oh Bool
19:29:35	<aveltras>	i ended up with
19:29:37	<aveltras>	isJust $ (el ^. dataTableRows) ^.. each . dataTableRowExpandedContent ^? each . _Just
19:29:44	<aveltras>	not sure that's the most efficient
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19:31:31	<idnar>	`has (dataTableRows . folded . dataTableRowExpandedContent . _Just) el`
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19:34:25	<aveltras>	idnar: seems to work fine too, thanks !
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19:50:55	<frdg>	Is this a situation I can use the Reader Monad to pass around h and m implicitly? http://dpaste.com/E7KAMTKFN
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19:52:08	<geekosaur>	in this situation what you usually do is let the outer scope hold on to them for you
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19:53:16	<frdg>	so like this? http://dpaste.com/9HEZUT5DL
19:53:18	<geekosaur>	if you're updating the map, then Reader wouldn't work anyway; you'd want State or explicit passing
19:53:40	<geekosaur>	yes
19:53:48	<frdg>	ok thanks
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20:25:40	<koz_>	:t repeat
20:25:42	<lambdabot>	a -> [a]
20:25:49	<koz_>	I always get that confused with 'replicate'.
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20:32:20	<alar>	Greetings! Any advice on which HTTP client to use to create bindings to VMWare API?
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21:08:55	<hololeap>	i don't understand this error: https://dpaste.com/F8XPNV34B
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21:10:48	<ski>	hololeap : sounds like existentials. how's the `data' type defined ?
21:11:12	<hololeap>	it's from `cabal unpack hls-class-plugin`
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21:13:05	<hololeap>	ski: https://dpaste.com/A2W7C4F2H
21:13:47	<ski>	yea, i found the source of the module
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21:15:44	<ski>	(still dunno where `hieAst' is defined, though)
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21:16:40	<hololeap>	i think my environment is out of sorts at the moment
21:17:03	<hololeap>	once i clean it up the error should go away. i just didn't recognize it.
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21:18:41	<ski>	if you knew the `data' constructor that `hieAst' belonged to, call it `C', i think you could replace `hieAst -> hf' with `C {hieAst = hf}'
21:19:44	<ski>	what's the type of `runAction' ?
21:20:24	<hololeap>	not sure. i'm not editing it, just trying to build it
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21:21:09	<ski>	perhaps the types in some library it uses changed. or perhaps something is amiss in your environment, as you say
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21:22:01	<ski>	(also .. i suspect `haskell-language-sever' was intended to be `haskell-language-server' ?)
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21:32:41	<tomjaguarpaw>	Does a summary of all the different lens libraries exist anywhere? Alternatively, does anyone know the lens library with smallest dependency footprint that includes Prism?
21:34:29	<glguy>	I like when everyone picks a different, smaller lens library and then when I build my project I get to have all the different small lens libraries linked into it
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21:43:29	<tomjaguarpaw>	Hmm optics is quite small actually
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21:48:47	<ij>	Can I read from a mutable array without making a copy? That would be really nasty, but also really performant in my case...
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21:49:14	<dolio>	Copy of what?
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21:49:25	<ij>	the element within the vector
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21:51:50	<dolio>	Reading from arrays don't make copies, unless you mean allocating a box for something in an unboxed array.
21:52:37	<ij>	they should, because you have to – because otherwise someone could mutate the array, but the copy I get is a pure value
21:52:46	<ij>	it wouldn't be pure, if it wasn't a copy
21:53:24	<ij>	hm, or I get only a reference to it... and the mutation is storing a new reference. then you're right
21:53:32	<argento>	Hi, where can I read the code for the monad instance of (-> x) ? It's not in Control.Monad.Instances
21:53:45	<ij>	dolio, then I don't know why my vector reads are taking up so much alloc
21:53:53	<ij>	and also runtime
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21:54:15	<tomjaguarpaw>	Is it a boxed or unboxed array?
21:54:16	<dolio>	If the arrays are boxed then it's just reading a pointer.
21:54:23	<glguy>	argento: http://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.14.1.0/docs/src/GHC.Base.html#line-973
21:54:49	<glguy>	argento: there are [source] links in the haddocks
21:55:13	<dolio>	Or rather, if it's an array of boxed things.
21:55:37	<argento>	glguy: thanks
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22:01:31	<ski>	argento : `(rho ->)' is basically `Reader rho'
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22:02:46	<ij>	tomjaguarpaw, dolio, mutable boxed
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22:04:46	<ij>	https://github.com/siers/ppmz/blob/master/solve.prof mazeRead/mazeCursorSolved are both Data.Vector.Mutable.unsafeRead (no bounds checking)
22:05:08	<ij>	why would they be that high in %time and %alloc?
22:06:10	<tomjaguarpaw>	In that case there should be no extra allocation for accessing an element. You just get the thing in the box.
22:06:23	<tomjaguarpaw>	Oh, dolio said that.
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22:23:32	<ij>	I guess I could post this to reddit — fewer people IRC at any given time
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22:33:21	<ephemient>	you might try with {-# LANGUAGE StrictData #-} and see if the percentages shift around
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22:36:24	<dolio>	Those functions aren't just `unsafeRead`. They're doing other arithmetic. I don't exactly recall how costs of lazy stuff are attributed, but I suppose it could be that those functions incur all the cost of forcing what is needed to calculate the array index.
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22:40:18	<dolio>	It's difficult to tell what might matter without a lot of study.
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23:00:28	<ij>	ephemient, ill try that
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23:02:10	<ephemient>	ij: as dolio says, the time and space includes whatever parts of its arguments it needed to force. StrictData is just a shortcut to make the callers force record fields before constructing/updating them, so it will change where the time and space are counted
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23:04:34	<dolio>	The pragma will have no effect on some things, though. Like Cursor is defined as an alias for (Int,Int).
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23:09:49	<ephemient>	yep, to force those would take a bit more effort to check how they're being used, I just mentioned StrictData since it's so easy to add a single pragma
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All times are in UTC on 2021-02-01.