Logs on 2021-02-08 (freenode/#haskell)
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| 00:17:32 | <edwardk> | that'd be a bug =) |
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| 00:17:49 | <edwardk> | @let oper f x y = testBit f (fromEnum x*2 + fromEnum y) |
| 00:17:50 | <lambdabot> | .L.hs:168:1: error: [-Woverlapping-patterns, -Werror=overlapping-patterns] |
| 00:17:50 | <lambdabot> | Pattern match is redundant |
| 00:17:50 | <lambdabot> | In an equation for ‘oper’: oper f x y = ... |
| 00:17:51 | ← | livvy parts (~livvy@88.97.23.37) () |
| 00:18:01 | <edwardk> | @let oper' f x y = testBit f (fromEnum x*2 + fromEnum y) |
| 00:18:03 | <lambdabot> | Defined. |
| 00:18:17 | <edwardk> | @let assoc (oper' -> f) = and [f x (f y z) == f (f x y) z|x<-b,y<-b,z<-b] where b = [False,True] |
| 00:18:18 | <lambdabot> | .L.hs:166:1: error: [-Woverlapping-patterns, -Werror=overlapping-patterns] |
| 00:18:18 | <lambdabot> | Pattern match is redundant |
| 00:18:18 | <lambdabot> | In an equation for ‘assoc’: assoc (oper' -> f) = ... |
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| 00:18:26 | <edwardk> | @let assoc' (oper' -> f) = and [f x (f y z) == f (f x y) z|x<-b,y<-b,z<-b] where b = [False,True] |
| 00:18:28 | <lambdabot> | Defined. |
| 00:18:35 | <edwardk> | -- can't remember the reset command! |
| 00:18:44 | <edwardk> | > length $ filter assoc [0..15] |
| 00:18:46 | <lambdabot> | 12 |
| 00:19:03 | <edwardk> | > length $ filter assoc' [0..15] |
| 00:19:05 | <lambdabot> | 8 |
| 00:19:08 | <edwardk> | better |
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| 00:20:49 | <ephemient> | @undefine |
| 00:20:49 | <lambdabot> | Undefined. |
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| 00:20:59 | <polyphem> | edwardk: thanx for pointing me to view patterns :) |
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| 00:30:16 | <anselmschueler> | Hi |
| 00:30:23 | <Axman6> | Hello! |
| 00:30:25 | <ski> | lo |
| 00:30:30 | <anselmschueler> | I've just installed `ghcup`, and ran into a bit of a problem |
| 00:30:54 | <anselmschueler> | The installation script told me |
| 00:30:55 | <anselmschueler> | "Detected fish shell on your system... |
| 00:30:55 | <anselmschueler> | If you want ghcup to automatically add the required PATH variable to "/home/anselmschueler/.config/fish/config.fish" |
| 00:30:56 | <anselmschueler> | answer with YES, otherwise with NO and press ENTER." |
| 00:31:28 | <anselmschueler> | but after saying "YES", it erred with "grep: /home/anselmschueler/.config/fish/config.fish: No such file or directory" |
| 00:31:38 | <Axman6> | I guess you don't have that file |
| 00:31:40 | <anselmschueler> | Now, I can't access ghcup, ghc or cabal |
| 00:31:46 | <anselmschueler> | Yes |
| 00:31:59 | <anselmschueler> | The question is: How can I re-add that line to the file after creating it? |
| 00:32:08 | <anselmschueler> | I don't know what line it would've put there |
| 00:32:56 | <anselmschueler> | Where are the ghcup and ghc binaries stored? |
| 00:33:13 | <anselmschueler> | Does somebody maybe have the line that would've been added? |
| 00:33:27 | <anselmschueler> | Should I re-run the script, or is there some patch tool? |
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| 00:34:11 | <Axman6> | https://gitlab.haskell.org/haskell/ghcup-hs/-/blob/master/bootstrap-haskell#L272 |
| 00:34:35 | <Axman6> | looks like ~/.cabal/bin is the path you need to add to your PATH |
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| 00:35:31 | <anselmschueler> | ~/.cabal/bin doesn't exist. |
| 00:36:21 | <Axman6> | perhaps rerunning the script would be a good idea, if you've added that file |
| 00:36:31 | <anselmschueler> | Oh |
| 00:36:36 | <anselmschueler> | The issue has resolved itself |
| 00:36:42 | <Axman6> | :magic: |
| 00:36:48 | <anselmschueler> | it seems that the script *did* create the file, but didn't tell me about it |
| 00:37:27 | <anselmschueler> | and, while `cabal` was available immediately, due to being in /usr/local/bin, I needed a shell restart to see ghc and ghcup |
| 00:38:13 | <anselmschueler> | While that's great, I think the script should tell the user that, even though an error has occurred, the issue has been resolved and there is no need to worry. |
| 00:38:14 | <Axman6> | I hmm, I'm not sure if that would be the cabal that ghcup installed |
| 00:38:28 | <anselmschueler> | There was no cabal installed previously. |
| 00:38:37 | <Axman6> | hmm, ok maybe I'm wrong |
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| 00:39:13 | <anselmschueler> | oh |
| 00:39:14 | <anselmschueler> | no |
| 00:39:17 | <anselmschueler> | sorry |
| 00:39:27 | <anselmschueler> | it was installed |
| 00:39:35 | <anselmschueler> | but I had installed it without a package manager |
| 00:39:39 | <anselmschueler> | it was just sitting in /opt |
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| 00:41:17 | <anselmschueler> | OK |
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| 00:41:26 | <anselmschueler> | A new problem has arisen |
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| 00:41:56 | <anselmschueler> | After running `ghci`, I get the warning |
| 00:41:56 | <anselmschueler> | ``` |
| 00:41:57 | <anselmschueler> | <no location info>: warning: [-Wmissed-extra-shared-lib] |
| 00:41:57 | <anselmschueler> | libgmp.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory |
| 00:41:58 | <anselmschueler> | It's OK if you don't want to use symbols from it directly. |
| 00:41:58 | <anselmschueler> | (the package DLL is loaded by the system linker |
| 00:41:59 | <anselmschueler> | which manages dependencies by itself). |
| 00:41:59 | <anselmschueler> | ``` |
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| 00:43:07 | <anselmschueler> | This is despite the fact that I have `libgmp10` installed |
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| 00:43:29 | <anselmschueler> | Is this something I should worry about? How can I get GHCi to recognize GMP? |
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| 00:45:40 | <Axman6> | um, possible by installed libgmp-dev? it's been a long time since I've needed to fix this stuff on linux |
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| 00:46:43 | <anselmschueler> | OK, I'm trying that now |
| 00:47:07 | <anselmschueler> | The warning has disappeared |
| 00:47:18 | <anselmschueler> | I'll try compiling something that uses `Integer` |
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| 00:49:21 | <anselmschueler> | Thank you! |
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| 00:49:26 | <anselmschueler> | It's working now |
| 00:49:34 | <Axman6> | great, good luck! |
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| 01:32:46 | <hololeap> | wat? the "extensible records" here are basically clunky typeclasses: https://elm-lang.org/docs/records#record-types |
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| 01:38:53 | <koala_man> | what format is 'cabal new-sdist -o -'? I expected a tar.gz file but instead I get some binary stuff that 'file', gzip, and tar can't identify |
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| 02:07:15 | <monochrom> | gzipped tar. |
| 02:07:32 | <monochrom> | "cabal new-sdist -o - | file -" works for me: /dev/stdin: gzip compressed data, from Unix |
| 02:07:54 | <monochrom> | "cabal new-sdist -o - | tar -C .. -xvzf -" is also successful for me |
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| 02:14:46 | <koala_man> | monochrom: weird. This is what I'm getting: https://gist.github.com/koalaman/173d517751cbc3c6ec1566520c2cb92f |
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| 02:19:34 | <monochrom> | The 2nd byte c2 looks suspicious. My files are like "1f 8b 08 00 00 00 00 00 00 03" |
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| 02:24:04 | <koala_man> | I tried "LC_ALL=C cabal new-sdist -o -" and it fails with "<stdout>: commitBuffer: invalid argument (invalid character)" -___- |
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| 03:10:46 | <swarmcollective> | I must be missing something obvious, but how do I coerse: MonadX m1 => MonadY m2 => m1 a -> m2 a ? |
| 03:11:50 | <shachaf> | That depends on what MonadX and MonadY are. |
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| 03:23:12 | <koz_> | I wanna write foo :: (Bounded a, Enum a) => Vector a. Is there a way to do this _without_ going through Vector.fromList? |
| 03:23:44 | <Axman6> | I thought there was a Vector.enumFromTo |
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| 03:24:21 | <Axman6> | it's a logical thing to exist in the stream fusion part of things. the more efficient implementation which knows the size ahead of time is possible more difficult |
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| 03:24:53 | <koz_> | enumFromTo does indeed exist. |
| 03:24:55 | <koz_> | Thanks. |
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| 03:25:29 | <Axman6> | I guess you could use enumFromN would be better if the Enum instance lets you determine an appropriate size |
| 03:25:45 | <koz_> | Mine are autoderived. |
| 03:25:51 | <koz_> | (or rather, the ones I care about are) |
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| 03:26:56 | <Axman6> | universe = let lo = minBount; hi = maxBound in enumFromN lo (fromEnum @a hi - fromEnum lo) |
| 03:27:03 | <Axman6> | s/t/d |
| 03:27:05 | <koz_> | So would that mean I could do like, fromEnum, add one, and that's my size? |
| 03:27:22 | <Axman6> | um, possibly |
| 03:27:36 | <Axman6> | not sure what guarantees there about Enum, Bounded etc |
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| 03:27:54 | <koz_> | _Guarantees_ is a pretty strong word vis a vis Enum lol. |
| 03:28:02 | <koz_> | 'Expected behaviour' is probably closer to how it be. |
| 03:28:22 | <Axman6> | @let universe : forall a. (Enum a, Bounded a) => V.Vector a; universe = let lo = minBound; hi = maxBound in enumFromN lo (fromEnum @a hi - fromEnum lo) |
| 03:28:22 | <lambdabot> | Parse failed: TemplateHaskell language extension is not enabled. Please add ... |
| 03:28:45 | <Axman6> | % let universe :: forall a. (Enum a, Bounded a) => V.Vector a; universe = let lo = minBound; hi = maxBound in enumFromN lo (fromEnum @a hi - fromEnum lo) |
| 03:28:46 | <yahb> | Axman6: ; <interactive>:115:50: error:; Not in scope: type constructor or class `V.Vector'; No module named `V' is imported. |
| 03:28:52 | <Axman6> | @let universe :: forall a. (Enum a, Bounded a) => V.Vector a; universe = let lo = minBound; hi = maxBound in enumFromN lo (fromEnum @a hi - fromEnum lo) |
| 03:28:52 | <lambdabot> | Parse failed: Parse error in expression: fromEnum@a |
| 03:28:59 | <Axman6> | :'( |
| 03:29:29 | <Axman6> | universe @Int is going to be fun... |
| 03:30:23 | <shachaf> | Presumably it'll be some sort of error due to lack of address space. |
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| 03:32:32 | <swarmcollective> | shachaf Expected type: Web.Scotty.Internal.Types.ActionT T.Text IO [String] ... Actual type: Dashboard [String] |
| 03:32:58 | <Axman6> | what is Dashboard? |
| 03:33:27 | <swarmcollective> | Dashboard is defined as ModuleT DashboardState LB |
| 03:34:02 | <Clint> | that seems different |
| 03:34:26 | <Axman6> | yeah, depending on what ModuleT is, that does not look like ActionT to me |
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| 03:35:30 | <Axman6> | it feels like you might be trying to do something which doesn't make sense |
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| 03:37:08 | <swarmcollective> | I'm extracting a list of string from the module state of ModuleT a LB and then attempting to return that using the `json` response of a `scotty` request. |
| 03:37:59 | <swarmcollective> | ActionT is from scotty. |
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| 03:38:23 | <Axman6> | looks to me like you need a natural transformation |
| 03:38:35 | <Axman6> | how do yuo execite a ModuleT? |
| 03:38:43 | <Axman6> | uh, you execute* |
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| 03:49:40 | <sevenk> | hey |
| 03:49:46 | <sevenk> | whats up everyone |
| 03:49:53 | <shapr> | what's up with you? |
| 03:50:07 | <sevenk> | eh |
| 03:50:09 | <sevenk> | not much |
| 03:50:22 | <shapr> | sevenk: you writing any code? |
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| 03:50:59 | <sevenk> | hm not really. Ive just started haskell. Been reading Programming in haskell |
| 03:51:07 | <sevenk> | just finished the chapter 3 questions |
| 03:51:33 | <shapr> | oh I liked the 1st edition of that book, haven't read the 2nd edition |
| 03:51:45 | <sevenk> | yep im on second edition |
| 03:51:48 | <shapr> | sevenk: What do you think? fun so far? |
| 03:53:05 | <sevenk> | yes i really like it |
| 03:53:43 | <sevenk> | i struggle alot though. i was looking for some practice but the 99 questions wiki is starting to get tough |
| 03:53:47 | <sevenk> | and same with codewars |
| 03:54:04 | <sevenk> | so i might just go back to the book lol |
| 03:54:42 | <shapr> | yeah, I need to dig out my copy as well. |
| 03:56:09 | <shapr> | If I were more awake I'd try to dig some questions out of you |
| 03:57:30 | <sevenk> | im still very much a beginner |
| 03:57:39 | <sevenk> | like....massive beginner lol |
| 03:58:40 | <shapr> | keep on learning, build fun things |
| 03:58:44 | <Axman6> | what was getting tricky in the 99 problems? |
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| 04:07:00 | <swarmcollective> | Axman6, runModuleT = runReaderT . unModuleT |
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| 04:08:58 | <sevenk> | sorry |
| 04:09:01 | <sevenk> | i lagged out |
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| 04:30:39 | <bitmapper> | i wonder how hard it would be to get GHC working on irix again |
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| 04:54:50 | <perdent> | https://gist.github.com/adambpa/faea41332ee9afc08ddbf6da131c75a3 can anyone convert my solution to haskell? Curious to see how it would look in Haskell/functional language and what the speed difference would be? |
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| 05:12:52 | ChanServ | sets mode +o shachaf |
| 05:13:00 | shachaf | sets mode +b *!*perdent@101.175.174.* |
| 05:13:01 | perdent | is kicked by shachaf (perdent) |
| 05:13:04 | shachaf | sets mode -o shachaf |
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| 05:45:55 | <Axman6> | shachaf: I'm confused what that ban was for |
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| 05:49:58 | <shachaf> | The context isn't just this message but all the other channels they've been spamming these messages to. |
| 05:50:21 | <Axman6> | ah right. seemed quite innocuous with only this channel's context |
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| 07:18:13 | <siraben> | GHC 9.0.1 released! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay! |
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| 09:14:16 | <typetetris> | Hi! How can I measure GC pause times at runtime (for metrics in production)? Maybe on of the metrics in ekg is already the GC pause time? (Which one would it be?) |
| 09:16:31 | <opqdonut> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ekg-core-0.1.1.4/docs/System-Metrics.html#v:registerGcMetrics |
| 09:16:54 | <opqdonut> | rts.gc.gc_wall_ms might be the one you want |
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| 09:18:57 | <typetetris> | opqdonut: Thank you very much! |
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| 10:08:01 | <Franciman> | hi, does anybody use aws-lambda-haskell-runtime ? |
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| 10:23:01 | <gentauro> | Franciman: Nike? |
| 10:23:42 | <Franciman> | gentauro, what? |
| 10:23:56 | <Franciman> | ah Nike, the shoe makers |
| 10:24:14 | <gentauro> | Franciman: Nike Inc. Yeah, those |
| 10:24:27 | <gentauro> | I think they are the ones that made the project iirc |
| 10:24:30 | <Franciman> | No, I wanted to ask something related to aws-lambda-haskell-runtime. I noticed that I can create a context that is shared by different hot calls to the lambda |
| 10:24:46 | <gentauro> | ahhh |
| 10:24:51 | <gentauro> | fair enough |
| 10:25:01 | <Franciman> | in that context I'd like to save a db connection, so that it can be reused. But, then I don't understand when I have to close the connection |
| 10:25:05 | <Franciman> | or more specifically, where |
| 10:25:11 | <Franciman> | nice, btw, thanks for the info |
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| 12:19:08 | <Cheems> | Hey everyone, I am a Computer Science student and currently learning Haskell in the university. I have a bit of a difficulty grasping the concept of recursion. I have an assignment to write a recursive function that returns a list of the hexagonal numbers of an integer on input I have the following code: |
| 12:19:08 | <Cheems> | hexagonalNums :: Integer -> [Integer] |
| 12:19:09 | <Cheems> | hexagonalNums 0 = [0] |
| 12:19:09 | <Cheems> | hexagonalNums 1 = [2*(1^2) - 1] |
| 12:19:10 | <Cheems> | hexagonalNums n = hexagonalNums(n-1) ++ [(2*(n^2) - n)] |
| 12:19:10 | <Cheems> | it works almost as it is supposed to, but I am unsure whether this is the correct way to write recursive functions. I will be thankful for any advice |
| 12:20:42 | <lemmih> | Cheems: It doesn't look like that function needs to be recursive. |
| 12:20:58 | <Cheems> | The assignment says that it must be |
| 12:22:03 | <Cheems> | And I would like some tips about recursion in general too. |
| 12:22:48 | <__monty__> | Cheems: Looks fine. Your second case is identical to the third so it's redundant. And repeatedly appending to the end of a list is inefficient but it probably doesn't matter for a simple assignment at the start of a course. |
| 12:22:50 | <lemmih> | Cheems: This would give you the same result: let hexagonalNum 0 = 0; hexagonalNum n = 2*(n^2) - n in map hexagonalNum [5,4..0] |
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| 12:23:49 | <lemmih> | Or rather: let hexagonalNum 0 = 0; hexagonalNum n = 2*(n^2) - n in map hexagonalNum [0..5] |
| 12:24:36 | <lemmih> | Or even: let hexagonalNum n = 2*(n^2) - n in map hexagonalNum [0..5] |
| 12:24:40 | <__monty__> | lemmih: If you don't use recursion you don't need the base case for 0. |
| 12:25:23 | <Cheems> | Basically, as far as I understand, recursion is Haskell's way of simulating a loop in an imperative language, right? |
| 12:26:13 | <opqdonut> | I prefer to say something like "for repetition, haskell uses recursion instead of loops" |
| 12:26:16 | <Cheems> | lemmih Thanks |
| 12:26:53 | <Cheems> | opqdonut Makes sense |
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| 12:29:12 | <Cheems> | One more thing - my code doesn't return the base case for 0, e.g. *Main> hexagonalNums 9 |
| 12:29:12 | <Cheems> | [1,6,15,28,45,66,91,120,153] |
| 12:29:13 | <Cheems> | Why is that? |
| 12:29:37 | <merijn> | Cheems: Loops vs recursion are just different ways to look at the same thing |
| 12:31:40 | <merijn> | Cheems: Why is what? |
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| 12:32:59 | <enikar> | Cheems: the 0 case is not reached, the 1 case terminate the recursion in your definition. |
| 12:33:58 | <Cheems> | enikar Ok, so how should I rewrite it so it is reached? |
| 12:34:47 | <arahael> | Cheems: Remove the 1 case? |
| 12:35:20 | <Cheems> | Right, missed that :D |
| 12:35:24 | <enikar> | Cheems: you can try without the 1 case… |
| 12:35:48 | <Cheems> | Sorry if I ask too dump questions, I just started with Haskell |
| 12:35:53 | <Cheems> | *dumb |
| 12:36:26 | <enikar> | the only dumb questions are the questions we don't ask :) |
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| 12:37:33 | <Cheems> | Thank you guys :) |
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| 12:39:33 | arahael | does try to make a point of _not_ asking the dumb questions. |
| 12:39:50 | <merijn> | enikar: I dunno man... |
| 12:39:55 | <merijn> | enikar: I've worked retail |
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| 12:41:51 | enikar | is not sure to undestand, beacause his restricted english understanding. |
| 12:42:03 | <enikar> | *because |
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| 12:43:37 | <arahael> | merijn: My interpretation is that *we*, the slightly smarter people in this channel, don't ask those questions. ;) |
| 12:43:42 | <j2t> | hi, I can write this `map (^ (floor n)) $ [1 .. fromIntegral $ floor $ x ** (1 / n)]` when x and n are Float type, but im struggling to come up with an the same expression when x and n are Int type. |
| 12:44:04 | <merijn> | enikar: retail work as in customer service in shops/supermarkets/etc., most notable for how incredibly rude and...less than smart...some customers are ;) |
| 12:44:25 | <arahael> | enikar: "Here's a cup, my kid vomited in it.". |
| 12:44:31 | <__monty__> | arahael: I only ask dumb questions in the interest of all the beginners out there, of course 🧐 |
| 12:44:52 | <merijn> | j2t: / only works on instance of Rational, which Int isn't |
| 12:44:57 | <arahael> | __monty__: Heh. |
| 12:44:58 | <merijn> | :t (/) |
| 12:44:59 | <lambdabot> | Fractional a => a -> a -> a |
| 12:45:07 | <merijn> | Eh, Fractional, apparently :p |
| 12:45:18 | <arahael> | Well, I'd best get to bed. It's midnight. |
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| 12:45:34 | <merijn> | j2t: Either way, that means that if 'n' is Int, you have to convert it to something fractional first, such as via fromIntegral |
| 12:45:49 | <merijn> | :t (^) |
| 12:45:50 | <lambdabot> | (Integral b, Num a) => a -> b -> a |
| 12:45:52 | <merijn> | :t (**) |
| 12:45:53 | <lambdabot> | Floating a => a -> a -> a |
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| 12:46:32 | <enikar> | never mind… i don't understand |
| 12:47:44 | <j2t> | merijn, that's the thing, I dont know how to go Integral (Int in my case) to Fractional, which I need to this ` x ** (1 / n)` |
| 12:47:56 | <j2t> | *from Integral |
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| 12:49:01 | <enikar> | there is fromIntegral or for fromInteger |
| 12:49:34 | <merijn> | j2t: fromIntegral |
| 12:49:44 | <merijn> | > fromIntegral (5 :: Int) :: Double |
| 12:49:46 | <lambdabot> | 5.0 |
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| 12:53:36 | <j2t> | oh, I was missing to wrap `x` with fromIntegral too. My bad. Thank you merijn |
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| 13:06:47 | <vektor> | Hey! So I've got myself a memory leak of some sort. Just to validate my mental model here: calling an IO action and letting it terminate can cause permanent memory allocation, right? If so, is there a way to free all that explicitly? |
| 13:07:04 | <vektor> | (The actual IO operation is runGHC, from the GHC library, with load and execStmt being the most likely cost centers with the GHC monad.) |
| 13:07:06 | <merijn> | vektor: Define "permanent memory allocation" |
| 13:07:08 | <vektor> | *within |
| 13:07:42 | <vektor> | permanent as in if I repeatedly run that IO operation, I'll clog up the ram, but I can terminate my program to get it back, of course. |
| 13:08:13 | <vektor> | i.e. permanent wrt. the lifetime of the program |
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| 13:09:19 | <merijn> | runGHC is tricky business, I dunno about that :) |
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| 13:11:47 | <vektor> | Oh, it sure is. I've found the function withCleanupSession, but it's not doing what I hoped it would. |
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| 13:17:02 | <timCF> | Hello guys! I'm thinking how to make better caching of compiled modules. I'm using stack. I have a library which have a lot of big Haskell files (> 300) and when I change just 1 file, and update this library in any other project (which is using this library as dependency), stack recompiles all >300 files from scratch for new version, in spite of just 1 file has been really changed. Is there some way to |
| 13:17:08 | <timCF> | optimise stack behaviour to remove this redundant recompilation which takes a lot of time |
| 13:17:34 | <merijn> | timCF: It's not redundant, though? |
| 13:18:07 | <merijn> | timCF: If module Foo imports module Bar and Bar changes, then Foo needs to be recompiled using the new version of Bar |
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| 13:18:43 | <geekosaur> | cross-module inlinings may change and be invalidated by the change to Bar |
| 13:18:54 | <merijn> | timCF: Files that don't import changed code are already not recompiled |
| 13:19:18 | <merijn> | timCF: If you wanna reduce the amount of recompilation, try and reduce how many modules (transitively) import something |
| 13:19:18 | <geekosaur> | and ghc relies heavily on such inlinings for performance |
| 13:19:53 | <merijn> | timCF: Especially modules that you are gonna be changing frequently, try to have those imported by as few modules as you can |
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| 13:22:25 | <timCF> | merijn: I'm not really writing these modules my hand, they are generated by protoc plugin from a lot of .proto files. Just haskell types and lensens for protobuf messages. They are not really cross-dependent, mostly they are independent. |
| 13:22:54 | <merijn> | timCF: How are those auto-generated, then? |
| 13:23:45 | <merijn> | I see two options: 1) Cabal thinks they *are* interdependent, or 2) the generated files are properly cached causing recompiles from scratch *always* |
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| 13:26:16 | <timCF> | I'm using protoc plugin from this repo https://github.com/google/proto-lens#readme and generating just normal Haskell files to src directory, without special stack/cabal autogeneration annotations. Maybe stack/cabal is too smart, and checking metadata of files (like date of creation) instead of just file content |
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| 13:27:04 | <merijn> | timCF: ah, no |
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| 13:27:13 | <merijn> | timCF: That's using "build-type: Custom" |
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| 13:27:37 | <merijn> | timCF: Cabal cannot track the dependencies of those, so that should be done by the custom Setup.hs |
| 13:27:43 | <merijn> | Which clearly does not do that |
| 13:28:07 | ← | enikar parts (~enikar@2001:41d0:2:8673::42) ("WeeChat 2.8") |
| 13:28:39 | <merijn> | The custom Setup probably runs the build unconditionally or checking metadata only |
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| 13:29:10 | <merijn> | cabal-install uses content hashing to control recompilation, but that's bypassed here |
| 13:29:22 | <timCF> | merijn: thanks! |
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| 13:33:47 | <vektor> | Here's a thought regarding my GHC-API memory leak: I use timeout to wrap my entire call to ghc. Could it be that this causes the GHC API to not clean up properly? |
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| 13:34:43 | <geekosaur> | that would not surprise me. but it's a question best asked in #ghc |
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| 13:35:10 | <vektor> | Ohh, that's a thing? Cool, thanks |
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| 13:44:35 | <timCF> | Did anybody read "Parallel and concurrent programming in Haskell"? What can you say about this book? Or maybe somebody can recommend more modern book for enterprise Haskell developers about applications architecture? I've used a lot of Erlang/OTP in the past, and I'm missing advanced high-level types/patterns for application architecture (like OTP application, superviser, genserver, process, link, |
| 13:44:41 | <timCF> | send-receive/call-cast abstractions). I'm already using Asyc Haskell library, but still it feels a bit messy and low-level thing for big enterprise programs. |
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| 13:48:35 | <merijn> | PCH is more about how the low level stuff works (like how to implement async) |
| 13:48:46 | <merijn> | timCF: There's not a lot of polished supervisor stuff yet |
| 13:49:10 | <merijn> | timCF: But PCH is *the* book to read on how you would implement those sorts of Erlang abstractions yourself |
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| 13:49:28 | <merijn> | timCF: And those would be incredibly useful packages to have |
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| 13:50:30 | <merijn> | johnw was working on some supervisor-y stuff, I think? |
| 13:51:12 | <merijn> | Stuff like https://hackage.haskell.org/package/async-pool-0.9.1 |
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| 13:52:59 | <timCF> | merijn: There is CloudHaskell (distribued-process) already, but package seems a bit abandoned. I did tried it - mostly works, but I'm a bit scared to use it in production. It's small subset of Erlang/OTP implemented in Haskell. Erlang/OTP is good, polished since 1986 framework, but untyped as you guessed. |
| 13:53:28 | <merijn> | CloudHaskell I was never *that* convinced by |
| 13:54:11 | <merijn> | timCF: Basically, all/most of the tools for building OTP-like stuff is there, but so far no one has built it |
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| 13:59:10 | <timCF> | merijn: yeah, it's not gonna happen without person who absolutely love OTP like me, haha) There are a lot of tricky parts, especially typed process message mailbox seems pretty hard to implement. But as I understood you do like the PCH book? |
| 14:00:32 | <merijn> | It's a very good overview of the low-level details/primitives in GHC (not too weird, considering Simon Marlow also *implemented* most of those) |
| 14:01:13 | <merijn> | timCF: So you'll certainly learn a lot about the basic tools available (he also explains considerable amounts of Async's implementation and STM, iirc) |
| 14:01:47 | <merijn> | Fiddly details like "MVars are fair and single-wakeup" and why those things might matter to you |
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| 14:02:31 | <timCF> | merijn: thanks! |
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| 15:32:31 | <swarmcollective> | I tried to extract the relevant code, since the project is so big, but this is where I'm failing to understand how to access the module state from the ModuleT DashboardState LB while servicing a Scotty web request which is in ActionT T.Text IO in case anyone is bored and wants a challenge... https://gist.github.com/calledtoconstruct/67efbd2b744d027a0ad136ee1cd3a13d |
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| 15:32:49 | <swarmcollective> | I hope I'm missing something simple / obvious to an experienced Haskeller. |
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| 15:34:07 | <Cale> | What's ModuleT from? Is that yours? |
| 15:34:26 | <swarmcollective> | It is from the lambdabot project. |
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| 15:34:39 | <Cale> | Ah, I was almost about to guess that |
| 15:34:40 | <Cale> | haha |
| 15:34:41 | <swarmcollective> | I created a plugin. |
| 15:35:46 | <Cale> | Well, okay, you're forking a thread to run this scotty server |
| 15:35:56 | <swarmcollective> | This is the first time I've had to use liftIO to start up something like a scotty endpoint. That changes the context entirely. |
| 15:36:01 | <Cale> | You could use an MVar or even just an IORef to communicate with it |
| 15:36:13 | <Cale> | I think everything here is an instance of MonadIO |
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| 15:37:10 | <swarmcollective> | The `ModuleT Dashboard LB` uses an MVar internally to store the module state. I have yet to figure out how to get to it, since it is tucked inside the ModuleInfo monad. |
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| 15:37:53 | <Cale> | I don't think ModuleInfo is a monad |
| 15:38:52 | <swarmcollective> | You are correct: data ModuleInfo st = ModuleInfo (facepalm) |
| 15:38:57 | <Cale> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/lambdabot-core-5.3.0.1/docs/Lambdabot-Module.html#t:ModuleInfo |
| 15:39:00 | <Cale> | yeah |
| 15:39:44 | <Cale> | So it *might* even make sense to runModuleT in your new thread... |
| 15:39:53 | <Cale> | or inside of a scotty handler action |
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| 15:40:24 | <swarmcollective> | I tried going down the path of accessing `inModuleNamed "dashboard"` and I believe I ended up with an error about No instance of MonadLB m (ActionT T.Text IO) |
| 15:41:49 | <swarmcollective> | but I'll try anything at this point. :D I've spent a lot of time trying things on my own. |
| 15:41:53 | <Cale> | Ah, MonadLB only holds of monads which are built on top of the LB monad, it's kind of like MonadIO |
| 15:42:17 | <Cale> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/lambdabot-core-5.3.0.1/docs/Lambdabot-Monad.html#t:MonadLB -- you can see the three instances here |
| 15:43:09 | <Cale> | Let me look more carefully at what you're trying to do :) |
| 15:43:26 | <swarmcollective> | On, right inModuleNamed uses runModuleT |
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| 15:44:10 | <Cale> | ah, and readMS just reads the private state of the module |
| 15:44:24 | <Cale> | It might be easier to just set up your own new MVar or whatever |
| 15:45:09 | <swarmcollective> | The `DashboardState` is written to when an irc like message comes in from the server. |
| 15:47:07 | <swarmcollective> | I say 'irc like message' since the messages can come from anywhere (discord, slack, etc..) |
| 15:47:14 | <Cale> | Where does startListening get called? |
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| 15:48:04 | <swarmcollective> | I'm calling `startListening` from the moduleInit of the ModuleT |
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| 15:49:09 | <shapr> | experience report: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/serialport really is cross platform from Linux to Mac at least |
| 15:49:22 | <swarmcollective> | s/ModuleT/Module |
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| 15:50:39 | <Cale> | Okay, that makes sense -- and if we make something like an IORef there, we could just pass it (or readIORef of it) to startListening as an argument |
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| 15:51:21 | <Cale> | and we could presumably also include that same IORef in our module state, so that the other lambdabot handlers could get at it, if we can't pass it directly to them |
| 15:51:33 | <Cale> | I forget how lambdabot hooks that stuff up |
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| 15:52:46 | <Cale> | So we could do something like startListening :: Int -> IO DashboardState -> Dashboard (); startListening port readDashboardState = ... |
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| 15:53:27 | <Cale> | and then before startListening gets called, we have something like dsRef <- newIORef initialDashboardState |
| 15:53:46 | <Cale> | and we call something like startListening port (readIORef dsRef) |
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| 15:54:30 | <swarmcollective> | Ah, so the parameter passed to startListening is the reader function. |
| 15:54:36 | <Cale> | (This is just a trick to make sure the webserver can't write the state. If you want to write it as well, probably you want to use an MVar so as to be careful about locking.) |
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| 15:56:43 | <Cale> | You *can* use IORefs for thread communication, but there are a lot of concurrency bugs to worry about in general, so if you can get away with restricting who is allowed to read and who is allowed to write, it's usually a good idea. |
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| 16:00:02 | <swarmcollective> | https://github.com/lambdabot/lambdabot/blob/master/lambdabot-core/src/Lambdabot/Monad.hs |
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| 16:00:59 | <swarmcollective> | and https://github.com/lambdabot/lambdabot/blob/master/lambdabot-core/src/Lambdabot/State.hs |
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| 16:01:34 | <swarmcollective> | This is where the `withMS` and `readMS` functions are declared (best I can tell). |
| 16:02:54 | <swarmcollective> | Am I correct in thinking that these are specific to the instances provided; would it be possible to write a new instance for this use case with scotty ActionM () which is ActionT T.Text IO () and then be able to call withMS or readMS within that context? |
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| 16:03:34 | <swarmcollective> | Since the `MS` or Module State is already encapsulated in a MVar |
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| 16:12:08 | <kuribas> | merijn: I found cloud haskell rather restrictive, as every process needs to have the same binary. |
| 16:12:34 | <kuribas> | merijn: I don't really see the advantage over other RPC libraries, or just JSON over REST. |
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| 16:13:44 | <merijn> | not needing to serialise to text and the ability to serialise arbitrarily complex things |
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| 16:14:39 | <Cale> | swarmcollective: You could get hold of the module state, but you won't be able to get a MonadLBState for monads not built on top of the LB monad anyway |
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| 16:15:13 | <Cale> | and even if you could, writing the instances required is a bunch of boilerplate that wouldn't save much actual work |
| 16:15:23 | <kuribas> | merijn: what does it matter which format is send? You could use one of the binary serialisation formats if necessary. |
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| 16:15:41 | <merijn> | kuribas: You can't (easily) serialise closures that way |
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| 16:15:43 | <Cale> | It's easier just to use the fact that you can do IO using liftIO from any of these monads, I think |
| 16:15:43 | <kuribas> | merijn: I can serialize arbitrarily complex things with json. |
| 16:16:06 | <merijn> | kuribas: By arbitrarily complex I mean "including sharing and closures" |
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| 16:16:40 | <kuribas> | merijn: that just sounds like a problem in need of a solution. |
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| 16:16:53 | <kuribas> | What would I even *want* to serialize closures. |
| 16:16:58 | <merijn> | kuribas: Then you are not Cloud Haskell's target audience |
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| 16:17:27 | <kuribas> | probably never will be |
| 16:17:54 | <merijn> | kuribas: I had a project where I wanted this, but cloud haskell didn't really exist yet, since half the support for Cloud Haskell was only at HEAD at the time |
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| 16:19:08 | <kuribas> | I also dislike the idea of not knowing how your data is send. |
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| 16:20:57 | <merijn> | Then you will also hate such "popular" tech as MPI :p |
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| 16:23:08 | <swarmcollective> | Cale, so liftIO is `stripping the MonadLBState` or `LB monad` and therefore not able to access it. Since Dashboard (ModuleT DashboardState LB) is LB to begin with, I just want to clarify. It is the liftIO that strips away the access? |
| 16:23:30 | <merijn> | It doesn't "strip" |
| 16:23:36 | <merijn> | % :t liftIO |
| 16:23:37 | <yahb> | merijn: MonadIO m => IO a -> m a |
| 16:23:55 | <merijn> | swarmcollective: The argument of liftIO is always, well, IO |
| 16:24:33 | <merijn> | swarmcollective: Assuming IO (most likely) IO does not have a MonadLBState instance then, logically, you cannot use that instance in the argument to liftIO |
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| 16:31:10 | <swarmcollective> | I believe I understand what you are saying. |
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| 16:32:19 | <swarmcollective> | With the IORef idea, is it then possible to store the IORef that is used to communicate with the scotty thread in the Module State such that I can write to it when the module receives calls from the IRC server? |
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| 16:33:01 | <swarmcollective> | I believe the Module State is serialized, which might prevent that. (IORef is not likely serializable, :D) |
| 16:34:54 | <kuribas> | merijn: can erlang do that? |
| 16:35:04 | <kuribas> | merijn: transferring closures? |
| 16:35:04 | <merijn> | kuribas: Do what? |
| 16:35:12 | <merijn> | No clue |
| 16:35:24 | <swarmcollective> | Or maybe I have this backwards. Create the IORef, pass it to the scotty thread, then fork another thread that periodically reads the module state with readMS and write it to the IORef. Then the scotty thread would have the updated state. |
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| 16:36:27 | <dolio> | I think it can. You can just send anything. |
| 16:36:42 | <merijn> | I mean, Erlang also allows hot-swapping code, so |
| 16:36:52 | <merijn> | It's likely |
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| 16:41:15 | <oats> | not directly related, but I'm reminded of how much I want to go through this https://www.stephendiehl.com/posts/monads_machine_code.html |
| 16:41:28 | <oats> | the idea of an x86 monad is sublime lol |
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| 16:42:02 | <merijn> | oats: What's stopping you? :p |
| 16:42:11 | <oats> | busy :P |
| 16:42:13 | <oats> | school |
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| 16:42:23 | <oats> | bigger fish to fry :( |
| 16:42:37 | <Ferdirand> | i think erlang is cheating a bit when sending closures |
| 16:42:51 | <merijn> | Ferdirand: How so? |
| 16:43:20 | <Ferdirand> | it doesn't serialize the code, it just sends a pointer to the code within the module |
| 16:43:33 | <merijn> | Ferdirand: Well, duh |
| 16:43:58 | <Ferdirand> | lua serializes the actual bytecode iirc |
| 16:44:07 | <merijn> | Ferdirand: Sending arbitrary code requires you either 1) include a compiler, or 2) have eval (which is basically shipping a compiler) |
| 16:44:18 | <Ferdirand> | well erlang ships with a compiler |
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| 16:44:32 | <merijn> | Suggesting you do that in any production system is going to give your security team a heart infarct :p |
| 16:44:49 | <Uniaika> | Ferdirand: inter-BEAM messaging actually sends the data, IIRC |
| 16:44:59 | <merijn> | And if you don't *have* a security team, that seems an even worse idea :p |
| 16:45:27 | <Ferdirand> | Uniaika: https://erlang.org/doc/apps/erts/erl_ext_dist.html#new_fun_ext |
| 16:45:50 | <Ferdirand> | "each fun within a module has an unique index" |
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| 16:45:57 | <merijn> | Ferdirand: Sending closures has to involve sending any variables capture in scope, though |
| 16:46:14 | <Ferdirand> | yes, of course, there's a field at the end for free variables |
| 16:46:58 | <oats> | lua is great for this kind of dynamic thing |
| 16:47:14 | <oats> | lua feels like a lisp stuck in a boring scripting language body :P |
| 16:47:38 | <merijn> | oats: And a shitty start index for arrays :p |
| 16:47:49 | <oats> | eh, that's never been an issue for me |
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| 16:48:18 | <kuribas> | merijn: tell that to our team... |
| 16:48:23 | <oats> | you can technically start your own lists at zero if you want, lua's built-in ipairs just won't support it |
| 16:48:25 | <Ferdirand> | anyway, wrt. security, i think erlang's philosophy is that all nodes run inside the same security domain |
| 16:48:37 | <kuribas> | merijn: we change code live on production |
| 16:48:42 | <Ferdirand> | if you can talk the distribution protocol, you can already spawn remote processes and load remote code |
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| 16:50:56 | <Uniaika> | Ferdirand: yes, BEAM nodes are expected to live in the same rack, or bay |
| 16:51:14 | <Uniaika> | if we want a larger scale, the distribution protocol must be changed to accomodate to the other constraints |
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| 16:52:08 | <kuribas> | merijn: they never tell you the downsides: you cannot track what has been hotfixed. We need a complicated build in order to patch and update our running build. In the end, n you basically reinvented CI/CD, which you can do in every language. |
| 16:54:19 | <merijn> | kuribas: The reason it exists is because ericson makes telecom routers that absolutely *cannot* have downtime to run updates. Your company probably doesn't, the fact that your colleagues inappropriately do that sorta thing anyway isn't the fault of technology |
| 16:55:01 | <kuribas> | merijn: it's also because our system takes up to 2 hours to reboot. |
| 16:55:05 | <merijn> | Determined programmers can find stupid things to do with any feature :) |
| 16:55:38 | <kuribas> | merijn: because it keeps everything in ram. |
| 16:55:43 | <siraben> | Is there a tutorial/example on how to implement a mutable data structure with a pure API using linear types? |
| 16:55:58 | <merijn> | siraben: Probably not? :p |
| 16:56:06 | <j2t> | `[x | x <- [1..], x^2 <= 100]` this expression does not terminate in repl, it prints without closing `]`. What am I doing wrong? |
| 16:56:24 | <merijn> | siraben: Like, the beta version of linear types has only been available in a released compiler for, like, 2 days :) |
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| 16:56:28 | <kuribas> | merijn: there are ways to have no downtime without hot-patching. |
| 16:56:30 | <c_wraith> | j2t: ghc doesn't know that x^2 is monotonic |
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| 16:56:42 | <kuribas> | merijn: like starting a second process, and killing the first when the second is running. |
| 16:56:51 | <merijn> | siraben: You'll have to grab a copy of one or more Linear Haskell papers and the GHC wiki |
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| 16:57:09 | <kuribas> | merijn: but if it where me, I'd go to a stateless service with everything in the DB. |
| 16:57:12 | <merijn> | kuribas: How do you migrate your active connections? |
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| 16:57:24 | <kuribas> | what do you mean? |
| 16:57:26 | <kuribas> | merijn: |
| 16:57:27 | <kuribas> | haalayash |
| 16:57:27 | <merijn> | kuribas: Good luck making "connected phone calls" stateless :p |
| 16:57:47 | <siraben> | there's 108938 |
| 16:57:48 | <j2t> | c_wraith, could you expand more? `[x | x <- [1..], x <= 100]` does not terminate either |
| 16:57:50 | <siraben> | oops wrong pate |
| 16:57:52 | <kuribas> | merijn: it's a backend service that doesn't talk with the customer directly. |
| 16:57:53 | <siraben> | paste*, https://github.com/tweag/linear-base/blob/master/src/Data/HashMap/Mutable/Linear.hs |
| 16:57:56 | <c_wraith> | j2t: it has to actually check every value of x. Since that'll default to Integer, you'll run out of memory before it checks them all |
| 16:58:16 | <kuribas> | merijn: oh, you mean the router :) |
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| 16:58:18 | <merijn> | kuribas: *your* process maybe, but I don't know what your company actually does, so I don't know about that |
| 16:58:23 | <j2t> | c_wraith, right, i was supposing that. |
| 16:58:38 | <merijn> | j2t: guards in list comprehensions are filter, not takeWhile :) |
| 16:58:52 | <j2t> | c_wraith, is there way to write what im trying to with list comprehensions? |
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| 16:59:01 | <merijn> | j2t: not really |
| 16:59:03 | <j2t> | ok |
| 16:59:08 | <merijn> | j2t: At least not easily |
| 16:59:19 | <merijn> | j2t: otoh, list comprehensions are fairly uncommon anyway |
| 16:59:19 | <c_wraith> | put an upper bound on the inner iteration |
| 16:59:40 | <c_wraith> | *you* know x^2 is monotonic, so x <- [1..100] |
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| 17:00:45 | <c_wraith> | ghc just treats them as arbitrary functions, and arbitrary functions can be undecidable. You know more, so it's your responsibility to use that knowledge. |
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| 17:01:18 | <c_wraith> | Though really.... list comprehensions are weird and awkward. They shouldn't be your goal. takeWhile is nice. |
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| 17:02:06 | <merijn> | When you come from python list comprehensiosn seem fantastic! And then 3 years later you realise you basically only use them for simple ranges like [n .. x] |
| 17:02:41 | <c_wraith> | I don't even call it a comprehension unless there's a | in there. It's just a list literal without that. |
| 17:02:46 | <swarmcollective> | Cale, thank you! The IORef between threads worked. Since I already needed a second thread to know when to shutdown scotty, this fit right in. The second thread pushes the Module State over to the scotty thread via the IORef (and it was already reading the state to begin with!) |
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| 17:05:55 | <kuribas> | merijn: the "debugging in production thing" can also be solved easily with a stateless service, just checkout the production revision, and point it at the production databases. |
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| 17:07:53 | <kuribas> | then you can test locally |
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| 17:10:50 | <siraben> | merijn: yeah, the linear haskell paper seems great. |
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| 17:15:24 | <__minoru__shirae> | swarmcollective: can you post another gist with a working code? |
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| 17:17:06 | <swarmcollective> | __minoru__shirae, sure. Once I build out the web service endpoints, I'll commit to the repo as well. |
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| 17:20:33 | <swarmcollective> | It does invoke a bit of a chuckle when saying it out loud "Adding a web interface to an irc bot" |
| 17:22:27 | <geekosaur> | "web all the things!" |
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| 17:24:44 | <__minoru__shirae> | swarmcollective: you created a project and specified scotty and lambdabot as dependencies? |
| 17:26:00 | <swarmcollective> | __minoru__shirae, my project is a new plugin for the lambdabot that exposes a web service which can read the state of the plugin (aka Module). |
| 17:26:04 | <__minoru__shirae> | I'm reading about lambdabot's dependencies from it's readme, does cabal or stack resolve them automatically? |
| 17:26:27 | <__minoru__shirae> | oh, so you're adding to the lambdabot itself\ |
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| 17:27:27 | <swarmcollective> | Yes. I forked the project and have been, sadly, breaking and fixing things for a while. This is how I'm learning Haskell. |
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| 17:27:58 | <geekosaur> | short answer is yes. longer answer is there are optional components which may need to be enabled with flags, or it may select them automatically if present (again using flags, which can be pretty clever) |
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| 17:29:01 | <swarmcollective> | geekosaur, agreed. The config component, now that I understand it, is pretty neat. |
| 17:33:03 | <ephemient> | j2t: with the {-# LANGUAGE TransformListComp #-} extension, you can write [x | x <- [1..], then takeWhile by x^2 <= 100] |
| 17:33:22 | <merijn> | ephemient: Thanks, I hate it >.> |
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| 17:33:37 | <j2t> | :) |
| 17:34:21 | <j2t> | ephemient, i don't see how anyone would write it this way instead of just plain `takeWhile` |
| 17:34:43 | <ephemient> | I'm not recommending it btw :) |
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| 17:35:03 | <j2t> | but thanks, it's nice to know about this extension |
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| 17:35:29 | <merijn> | Pro-tip: Take time at least once a year to skim through the GHC user guide :) |
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| 17:37:20 | <kuribas> | merijn: if I make these remarks to my colleage, he says "oh, but I don't need to COMPILE it!". As if compilation is a scary thing. |
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| 17:39:45 | <ephemient> | at my work we have a few test databases, one of which is a scrubbed (no real passwords etc) copy of our production db |
| 17:40:02 | <merijn> | kuribas: Get better coworkers? :p |
| 17:40:16 | <ephemient> | basically no reason to ever touch the prod db from dev |
| 17:40:45 | <kuribas> | merijn: I am not sure, these are like a hundred times better than the ones I had before. |
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| 17:41:29 | <kuribas> | merijn: and the three new guys have already shown interest in learning haskell and static types :) |
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| 17:43:12 | <ephemient> | I have worked with ops people that don't want to compile any changes though |
| 17:43:39 | <kuribas> | ephemient: why would ops people have to compile changes? |
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| 17:45:40 | <kuribas> | ephemient: yeah, a DB replica would be safer. |
| 17:46:05 | <maerwald> | you teaching haskell to others again? |
| 17:46:05 | <ephemient> | when I was at twitter (a while ago so things may have changed), if you wanted to change flags (like limits, or name of backend service, etc)... most of them would be source changes |
| 17:46:28 | <kuribas> | maerwald: hell yes :) |
| 17:46:33 | <maerwald> | how dare you |
| 17:47:16 | <kuribas> | ephemient: that sounds pretty bad |
| 17:47:43 | <ephemient> | I really don't know why, they certainly had a lot of ex-googlers who were accustomed to a system where almost all flags could be tweaked at runtime or on the command line |
| 17:48:06 | <maerwald> | kuribas: the rationale is probably to improve deployment time etc so that everyone stops caring about that |
| 17:48:24 | <maerwald> | and if deployment time is quick, agile isn't far |
| 17:48:54 | <kuribas> | maerwald: yeah, so don't make a build that has to fetch ghc and compile all dependencies in a docker image :) |
| 17:49:39 | <kuribas> | maerwald: if dependencies are cached, how long does it take, maybe 2 minutes at most for a big service? |
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| 17:49:45 | <merijn> | kuribas: pffft, knowing what you're doing is overrated |
| 17:49:52 | <merijn> | kuribas: It Depends |
| 17:50:00 | <merijn> | GHC is kinda slow for full rebuilds |
| 17:50:32 | <maerwald> | kuribas: the biggest service I've worked with was 310 modules, with a lot of TH. I think it was almost 10 minutes with cached deps |
| 17:50:37 | <merijn> | kuribas: I think it's ~7-10 minutes for a full rebuild of my codebase. |
| 17:50:59 | <maerwald> | (on a big amazon 64 gb ram instance) |
| 17:51:11 | <kuribas> | that's still fine IMO. I can do incremental development using ghci. |
| 17:51:25 | <merijn> | kuribas: ghcide is pretty snappy during work |
| 17:51:27 | <sm[m]> | ha! For once we're more on the ball than the rusties! :) https://foundation.rust-lang.org/posts/2021-02-08-hello-world/ |
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| 17:54:32 | <kuribas> | couldn't you cache intermediate files? |
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| 17:55:00 | <topos> | dcoutts_: did you get my messages? |
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| 17:55:50 | <kuribas> | merijn: or put functionality in modules, so you don't recompile the whole thing? |
| 17:56:42 | <merijn> | kuribas: I have something like 120 already :p |
| 17:57:03 | <merijn> | kuribas: there's no real per-module parallelism while compiling packages, sadly |
| 17:57:08 | <merijn> | anyhoo, dinner |
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| 17:58:36 | <kuribas> | merijn: --jobs ? |
| 18:00:19 | <maerwald> | kuribas: that still has module dependency order |
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| 18:11:03 | <kuribas> | maerwald: but you can have parallel dependencies? |
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| 18:26:32 | <Uniaika> | shapr, gwern: ping. Where can I find a dump of the wiki's database? I'd like to have a better approach at rejuvenating the wiki |
| 18:26:46 | <Uniaika> | (which means I'm not going to burn it to the ground) |
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| 18:27:05 | <maerwald> | haskell wiki? |
| 18:27:20 | <Uniaika> | maerwald: yes |
| 18:27:25 | <ski> | (or hawiki ?) |
| 18:27:39 | <maerwald> | kind of a failed project imo |
| 18:28:11 | <maerwald> | you can't even register without sending an email, like in the 80s |
| 18:28:29 | <Uniaika> | maerwald: yes, we talked about that on saturday |
| 18:28:38 | <Uniaika> | even I couldn't get an account |
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| 18:46:41 | <sm[m]> | it more or less has to be git-backed nowadays, like gitit, right ? |
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| 18:50:38 | <ph88> | does anyone know a good method to print haskell source code ? i would like to generat a bunch of code based on a json file |
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| 18:51:11 | <sm[m]> | man, that's a tough one |
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| 18:51:48 | sm[m] | has tried many times |
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| 18:52:07 | <sm[m]> | oh I misunderstood. I thought you meant print. |
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| 18:55:27 | <ph88> | print / write to file ... how should i call it ? :D |
| 18:55:31 | <shapr> | Uniaika: I don't know, and I've lost track of who's currently a wiki admin |
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| 18:56:20 | <sm[m]> | ph88: it's fine, or you could say pretty-print or generate |
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| 18:57:13 | <Uniaika> | shapr: thanks :) |
| 18:58:04 | <geekosaur> | https://wiki.haskell.org/Special:Export ? |
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| 18:58:39 | geekosaur | wonders what pandoc would do with the XML wrapper it apparently adds |
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| 19:00:27 | <Uniaika> | geekosaur: oh, nice finding |
| 19:00:43 | <Uniaika> | although I'd rather have an SQL dump directly |
| 19:00:51 | <gedda> | given: haskell sed |
| 19:00:53 | <gedda> | oops |
| 19:01:04 | <gedda> | given: data Year n = forall d. (KnownNat n, KnownNat d) => Year { days :: [Day d] } |
| 19:01:05 | <geekosaur> | suspect you're not getting that without access to the backend |
| 19:01:17 | <gedda> | can i constrain d to any Nat? and not just the same? |
| 19:01:28 | <gedda> | or do I need to construct a type level list? |
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| 19:02:44 | <ski> | "can i constrain d to any Nat?" -- isn't that what you just did ? |
| 19:03:00 | <ski> | (dunno what you mean by "and not just the same?") |
| 19:03:06 | <Uniaika> | geekosaur: we own the damn backend, it shouldn't be so dificult to have that :P |
| 19:03:24 | <gedda> | ski: GHC complains on [Day 1, Day 2] since 1 != 2 |
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| 19:03:38 | ski | has no idea how `Day' is defined |
| 19:04:10 | <gedda> | essentially data Day d = KnownNat d => Day |
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| 19:04:36 | <ski> | hm, then `[Day 1,Day 2]' is a type error, since the data constructor `Day' takes no arguments |
| 19:05:39 | <gedda> | Hmm, so the constructor should take d aswell? I'll give it a go |
| 19:05:51 | <ski> | i've no idea what you mean to express |
| 19:06:21 | <ski> | i'm just saying that `[Day 1,Day 2]' can't possibly work, since `Day' is not a function. `[Day,Day]' could work, though |
| 19:06:28 | <sm[m]> | Uniaika: when the time comes, I see also https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:DumpBackup.php |
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| 19:07:08 | <sm[m]> | and a xml to markdown converter mentioned at https://www.rubberduckdev.com/mediawiki-to-md/ |
| 19:07:14 | <gedda> | ski: sorry for the confusion, this is how the actual list looks like: [day01 :: Day 1, day02 :: Day 2, ... ] :: Year 2020 |
| 19:07:18 | <Uniaika> | sm[m]: yep' |
| 19:07:36 | <Uniaika> | although if we use Wiki.js (https://js.wiki) we may have WikiText support |
| 19:07:37 | <ski> | (and i dunno what you mean by the "since 1 != 2" part. `[Day 1,Day 2]' clearly must error out, since `Day' is not a data constructor that accepts arguments, given what you said) |
| 19:07:38 | <sm[m]> | but as I say that, I know there must be a better conversion tool. |
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| 19:08:22 | <ski> | gedda : ooh, `Day 1' and `Day 2' were meant as *types* .. no wonder i got confused, since you presented them as values |
| 19:08:26 | <gedda> | ski, The error ir couldn't match type 1 with 2, Expected type: Day 1, Actual type: Day 2 |
| 19:08:30 | <gedda> | yeah that was my bad! |
| 19:08:40 | <gedda> | is* |
| 19:08:59 | <ski> | (this is also, imho, another point in favor of never naming the data constructor the same as the type constructor) |
| 19:09:35 | <gedda> | ski, very true, in my code i dont export the constructor directly which avoids the confusion (kinda) |
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| 19:10:28 | <gedda> | Now the error is reasonable, and fully expected given KnownNat d => [Day d], the question is how to allow d to be any Nat and not just the same Nat |
| 19:10:35 | <ski> | gedda : ok, so it seems you want `Year n' to express `KnownNat n *> [exists d. KnownNat d *> Day d]', rather than `exists d. (KnownNat n,KnownNat d) *> Day d]', then |
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| 19:11:20 | <gedda> | what does "*>" mean in this case? not the applicative *> i presume? |
| 19:11:21 | <ski> | "given KnownNat d => [Day d]" -- you are not given `KnownNat d => [Day d]' |
| 19:11:25 | <ski> | no |
| 19:11:57 | <ski> | (probably you meant : givrn a `[Day d]', where `KnownNat d' is known to hold) |
| 19:12:08 | <gedda> | exactly |
| 19:12:13 | <ski> | (or, for short : .. with the constraint `KnownNat d') |
| 19:12:21 | <gedda> | is it possible to move the quantifier inside the list? |
| 19:12:21 | <ski> | (these things are not at all the same thing) |
| 19:12:22 | <gedda> | I'll try |
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| 19:12:42 | <dmj`> | If I want to find the cubed root of a `Floating a => a` I could do (\x -> x ** (1/3)), how would I find the cubed root of a `Rational` ? |
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| 19:14:06 | <dmj`> | it doesn't seem possible because `(^)` assumes the power is an Integral |
| 19:14:30 | <ski> | gedda : a value of type `Cxt => T' is a value such that if the user/caller/consumer can supply evidence of the constraint `Cxt', then they may use the value as having type `T'. when the implementor/callee/producer constructs such a value, they may freely take the constraint `Cxt' for granted (that is, assuming evidence of it will be provided), and then has to construct a value of type `T' |
| 19:14:32 | <ephemient> | it also doesn't seem possible because the result isn't Rational |
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| 19:15:45 | <ephemient> | if you know that the input is a perfect cube, I suppose you could use newton's method |
| 19:16:00 | <ski> | gedda : otoh, a value of type `Cxt *> T' is a value such that the user/caller/consumer is *provided* both with evidence for the constraint `Cxt', *and* a value of type `T'. and when the implementor/callee/producer constructs such a value, they have to both give evidence of `Cxt', and construct a value of type `T' |
| 19:17:22 | <ski> | gedda : the difference between `Cxt => T' and `Cxt *> T' is similar to the difference between `T -> U' and `(T,U)', and also analogous to the difference between `forall a. ..a..' and `exists a. ..a..' |
| 19:17:49 | <dmj`> | ephemient: sadly it won't be a perfect cube |
| 19:18:08 | <dmj`> | ephemient: was thinking newton raphson with a convergence function at some threshold defined in terms of `Rational` |
| 19:18:18 | <ephemient> | dmj`: then why not convert to a floating first? that's what you're going to end up with anyway |
| 19:18:31 | <ski> | then it seems you'd have to convert to a type that can represent irrationals |
| 19:19:09 | <gedda> | ski, Oh right. I think i understand. Essentially moving the "burden of proof" from the caller to the producer? |
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| 19:19:50 | <ski> | (also, "I want to find the cubed root of a `Floating a => a`" is another example of what i said eight minutes ago. most probably dmj` did not mean they're given a value of that type, but rather given a value of type `a', where `Floating a' is known to hold ..) |
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| 19:20:56 | <ski> | gedda : yes, exactly. the difference between `forall a. ..a..' and `exists a. ..a..' is who (user/caller/consumer vs. implementor/callee/producer) gets to pick a specific type to use in place of `a', and who must be prepared to handle any choice |
| 19:20:57 | <dmj`> | ski: ah, must have missed that |
| 19:21:35 | <gedda> | ski, but is it possible to represent [exists d. KnownNat d *> Day d] in any reasonable way? Or should I resort to a type-level list instead? |
| 19:21:46 | <ski> | and similarly, the difference between `Cxt => T' and `Cxt *> T' is who is to provide the evidence for the constraint, and who can just assume it holds, take it for granted / as given |
| 19:21:54 | <dmj`> | ephemient: I've implemented the formula in terms of Double, but the question about using Rational was raised, and I don't think it's a valid one so. |
| 19:22:19 | <ski> | gedda : you encode the existential in one of the two typical ways you do that |
| 19:22:39 | <ski> | in this case, the "existential data constructor" encoding seems appropriate |
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| 19:23:16 | <ski> | (i dunno how you were thinking about using a type-level list, so i can't comment on whether that'd work here) |
| 19:24:04 | <ski> | gedda : iow, you make a new datatyoe, `SomeDay' (if you want to, you could parameterize it by `n', i dunno whether that matters for you), which expresses `exists d. KnownNat d *> Day d' |
| 19:24:30 | <ski> | so, `data SomeDay = forall d. KnownNat d *> WrapDay (Day d)' |
| 19:25:27 | <ski> | and then you can say `[WrapDay (MkDay :: Day 1),WrapDay (MkDay :: Day 2)]' (i renamed your data constructor `Day' to `MkDay', for clarity) |
| 19:25:33 | <boxscape> | if goldfire has his way we'll get builtin existential quantification SomeDay |
| 19:25:45 | ski | grins |
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| 19:26:09 | <ski> | (oh, and on this topic, `ExistentialQuantification' is a misnomer, imho) |
| 19:26:09 | <gedda> | ski, very clever! is there a language extensions i need for *>? |
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| 19:26:57 | <dmj`> | ski: also, I said, "If I want to find the cubed root of a Floating a => a", I did not say, "I want to find the cubed root of a Floating a => a". Big difference. |
| 19:27:08 | <ski> | gedda : no, at least currently, both `exists' and `*> are pseudo-Haskell, not implemented (well, actually i think LHC did support `exists' .. but only in "trivial" places, that is to the left of function arrows) |
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| 19:28:27 | <ski> | gedda : i introduced the `*>' notation, in order to be able to discuss matters such as about in a clearer way, since i think it helps to think about it at this level, before digging into one of the two encodings you currently have to use, in order to actually express existentials (possibly with attached constraints) today |
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| 19:30:26 | <ski> | dmj` : well, in either case, it suggests something like `foo :: (Floating a => a) -> ...' (rather than `foo :: Floating a => a -> ...', which is actually what you intended). the only difference is that with the "*If* I want to ...", you're putting that signature in the antecedent of an implication |
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| 19:31:00 | <shapr> | Uniaika: I wrote a tiny tactics demo: https://github.com/shapr/hlsexamples/blob/main/src/Examples.hs#L36 but it hasn't made its way out of that repo into something easily found |
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| 19:31:15 | <gedda> | ski, thanks, much appreciated. I'll have to play around with it a bit to fully grok existentials |
| 19:31:34 | <ski> | (btw, note that `foo :: Floating a => a -> ...', which is parsed as `foo :: Floating a => (a -> ...)' is equivalent to `foo :: (Floating a *> a) -> ...', so this ties into what i was talking about `exists' and `*>' before .. |
| 19:32:34 | <Uniaika> | shapr: <3 |
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| 19:33:01 | <ski> | in fact, *if* we really had `foo :: forall a. Floating a => a -> ...' (parsed as `foo :: forall a. Floating a => (a -> ...)'), then this is equivalent to `foo :: (exists a. Floating a *> a) -> ...' -- *assuming* that `a' was not mentioned in `...'. but in your particular case, i'm led to believe that `a' was actually to be mentioned elsewhere in the type signature) |
| 19:33:14 | <Uniaika> | shapr: how do you enable the tactics plugin? :O |
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| 19:34:19 | <gedda> | ski, hiding the Nat behind a Wrapper worked great! |
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| 19:34:25 | <shapr> | Uniaika: if you don't see any sort of popup on a type hole, and you're using the latest haskell-language-server, I'd look at editor settings for "enabled code lens" and "enable code action" |
| 19:34:45 | <Uniaika> | shapr: nice, thanks |
| 19:34:48 | <ski> | dmj` : anyway .. i was pointing it out, since it seems to me this (saying they have `Blah a => ..a..', when they actually have `..a..', where `Blah a' holds) is a common confusion that people make |
| 19:34:51 | <shapr> | Uniaika: if you want to drop by #haskell-language-server perhaps the authors would have more advice? |
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| 19:35:18 | <ski> | gedda : it's somewhat awkward to have to explicitly insert those wrappers .. but it should do the job |
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| 19:36:11 | <dmj`> | ski: that's fair |
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| 19:36:43 | <Darwin226> | Is there a way to specify package flags for my dependencies? |
| 19:36:49 | <Darwin226> | either in the cabal file or stack.yaml |
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| 19:40:57 | <dmj`> | ski: to me, if I say, I have a `Floating a => a` that means I have a value that is an instance of `Floating`, shouldn't be interpreted in the context of a function necessarily |
| 19:41:49 | <ski> | yes. the only problem is that is not what the type `Floating a => a' means |
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| 19:42:36 | <ski> | it means that you have a value where, if the *user* of that value supplies evidence for the constraint `Floating a', *then* you'll be able to compute an `a' for them |
| 19:43:05 | <ski> | it does not mean that you already have evidence for `Floating a' |
| 19:43:32 | <ski> | @type pi |
| 19:43:33 | <lambdabot> | Floating a => a |
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| 19:44:40 | <ski> | this is a *generic* value, which can become a particular number, for *any* type `a', *provided* the *user* can give evidence that `a' is an instance of `Floating' |
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| 19:46:11 | <boxscape> | would it be fair to say that if you could write `Floating a -> a`, that would be to `Floating a => a` as `(Floating a, a)` would be to `Floating a *> a`? |
| 19:46:25 | <ski> | yes, exactly |
| 19:46:28 | <boxscape> | okay |
| 19:46:32 | <dmj`> | should've just said Double lol |
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| 19:47:18 | <ski> | boxscape : which is how the dictionary-passing implementation of all this works |
| 19:47:23 | <fendor> | Darwin226, yeah, you can specify flas in cabal.project |
| 19:47:26 | <boxscape> | right, makes sense |
| 19:48:00 | <merijn> | Darwin226: Not really, because that shouldn't be necessary |
| 19:48:14 | <merijn> | Of course, everyone abuses flags for unintended things and then it becomes necessary >.> |
| 19:48:51 | <merijn> | fendor: You can't in the cabal file, though, and presumably since he asks "cabal file or stack.yaml" he's using stack :) |
| 19:49:20 | <fendor> | merijn, ok, indeed), but then you can specify it in stack.yaml, right? |
| 19:49:34 | <merijn> | Possibly, I don't use stack :p |
| 19:49:44 | <fendor> | I think you can do it in stack.yaml |
| 19:50:04 | <Darwin226> | Yep, turns out you can in stack.yaml |
| 19:50:17 | <Darwin226> | so what exactly are the flags supposed to be used for? |
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| 19:52:52 | <merijn> | Darwin226: Switching between "the base 3 dependencies" and "base 4" (as they were used in some package during the old base transition), or things like network-uri being moved out of base and then having a flag to depend on either "network + network-uri" or "only network" |
| 19:53:15 | <merijn> | Darwin226: With the idea that cabal will toggle flags on and off automatically until it finds a workable build plan |
| 19:53:44 | <Darwin226> | Does cabal actually do that? |
| 19:53:58 | <merijn> | Darwin226: But then people started "conditionally enabling features" using them, which led to the addition of "manual" flags which aren't auto toggled and now there's a bunch of flags that "conditionally expose features depending on flags" which you cannot depend on |
| 19:54:02 | <merijn> | Darwin226: Yes |
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| 19:54:28 | <merijn> | Darwin226: Unless you set your flags to manual to stop that, which was added later to appease people misusing the feature |
| 19:54:42 | <merijn> | imho that was a mistake that only encouraged more people to use flags |
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| 19:55:10 | <Darwin226> | Well in this case regex-posix wouldn't build on windows until I manually enabled a flag |
| 19:55:24 | <Darwin226> | even though it says "automatic" on it |
| 19:55:24 | <merijn> | The fact that you can't specify flags is/was intentional to stop people from having flags that conditionally change the exposed API |
| 19:55:44 | <merijn> | Darwin226: Well, cabal has to detect the build-plan doesn't work |
| 19:55:55 | <merijn> | Darwin226: Did it start building, but fail while building? |
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| 19:56:59 | <Darwin226> | Sort of. It failed in the preprocessing step |
| 19:57:14 | <merijn> | Darwin226: That's already too late |
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| 19:58:30 | <merijn> | ah |
| 19:58:35 | <merijn> | It's supposed to hit " if os(windows)" |
| 19:58:36 | <merijn> | build-depends: base<0 |
| 19:58:49 | <merijn> | And then become unbuildable and toggle the flag |
| 19:58:54 | <merijn> | But clearly that's not working then |
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| 20:01:03 | <__minoru__shirae> | gedda: can you post a snippet of a working version? |
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| 20:07:54 | <shapr> | Uniaika: what editor are you using? Did you install hls through ghcup? |
| 20:08:06 | <Darwin226> | merijn: HAH So actually it was my fault in the end |
| 20:08:16 | <Darwin226> | because I have allow-newer set |
| 20:08:49 | <merijn> | Darwin226: hah |
| 20:09:06 | <merijn> | Darwin226: And this is why we got ^>= now :p |
| 20:09:14 | <Uniaika> | shapr: neovim + coc.nvim, and yep' |
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| 20:13:29 | <gedda> | __minoru__shirae, sure |
| 20:14:37 | <merijn> | Darwin226: You're better off relaxing a more limited scoped of packages than just allow-newer without argument |
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| 20:15:21 | <shapr> | Uniaika: Ah, I don't use vim. Maybe ask on #haskell-language-server if you're not already in too many channels? |
| 20:15:45 | <Darwin226> | sure but honestly when I'm trying to build an older project and there's hundreds of dependencies, the choice is usually: to the bad thing or give up |
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| 20:17:01 | <gedda> | __minoru__shirae, https://termbin.com/6bzl |
| 20:17:21 | <gedda> | and then define the list as y2020 :: Year 2020 etc |
| 20:18:05 | <gedda> | requires ScopedTypeVariables |
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| 20:20:39 | <gedda> | Ideally I would like to instead of wrapping the days and hiding Nat behind Someday, something like this `KnownNats ns => Days ns` |
| 20:20:48 | <gedda> | but thats for another day |
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| 20:22:37 | <merijn> | Darwin226: You can do far more fine-grained selections in cabal.project, though |
| 20:22:51 | <merijn> | Darwin226: Like "relax all dependencies of X, except Y" etc. |
| 20:23:00 | <merijn> | Darwin226: https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/latest/cabal-project.html#cfg-field-allow-newer |
| 20:23:17 | <Darwin226> | Hmm, that's pretty good |
| 20:24:42 | <tomsmeding> | gedda: I believe you can get your KnownNats and Days with some GADTs |
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| 20:28:38 | <gedda> | tomsmeding, Good catch, GADTs would probably a bit more clean yes, I'll give it a go later |
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| 20:31:10 | <tomsmeding> | gedda: yeah if you can live with the KnownNat constraint being embedded in the definition of Days, it's a simple GADT |
| 20:31:22 | <tomsmeding> | haven't managed to separate KnownNats and Days yet |
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| 20:31:48 | <tomsmeding> | gedda: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/nsNYi5yi |
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| 20:32:17 | <tomsmeding> | the DataKinds is only to be able to write '[] and ': , you could just as well use [] and (,) in their stead if you want and avoid DataKinds |
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| 20:32:22 | <merijn> | Darwin226: Almost like someone thought of that sorta use case ;) |
| 20:33:50 | <boxscape> | in the paper https://lirias.kuleuven.be/retrieve/519822 in the typing rules (and elsewhere), there are a lot of terms with an overbar. Is that just to indicate precedence (instead of parentheses)? |
| 20:34:06 | <tomsmeding> | gedda: oh and the import is useless lol |
| 20:34:25 | <tomsmeding> | boxscape: "list of"? |
| 20:34:42 | <boxscape> | tomsmeding ah, that could be |
| 20:34:56 | <tomsmeding> | "Consider a class C \overline{a} with superclasseS \overline{C_{super}} and methodS \overline{m} ..." |
| 20:35:11 | <tomsmeding> | that's what overline generally means in rules like that |
| 20:35:27 | <boxscape> | oh guess I should have read that paragraph huh |
| 20:35:29 | <boxscape> | thanks :) |
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| 20:36:20 | <tomsmeding> | overlines for repetition works as long as it's clear whether those repetitions are independent or linked |
| 20:36:29 | <boxscape> | I see |
| 20:36:32 | <tomsmeding> | that gets murky quickly :p |
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| 20:38:05 | <tomsmeding> | boxscape: for example, the Top rule at the bottom-right of Fig. 3 in that paper |
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| 20:38:22 | <tomsmeding> | presumably, the \overline{d : C} and the \overline{C}'s are linked |
| 20:38:49 | <boxscape> | hm, yeah, I see |
| 20:38:53 | <tomsmeding> | but also probably, the \overline{\nu} (greek \nu ~= v) is independent |
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| 20:38:57 | <tomsmeding> | :p |
| 20:39:01 | <boxscape> | amazing |
| 20:39:03 | <tomsmeding> | which is written nowhere |
| 20:39:37 | <boxscape> | whenever I read something like this I miss the rigor of theorem proof assistants :) |
| 20:39:50 | <tomsmeding> | hah |
| 20:40:04 | <tomsmeding> | when you read the proof-assistant version you'll miss the readability of this one |
| 20:40:12 | <boxscape> | that's fair :D |
| 20:40:18 | <tomsmeding> | but I agree |
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| 20:52:37 | <gedda> | tomsmeding, many thanks! I'll play around with it |
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| 21:07:09 | <koz_> | maerwald: Did you manage to figure why 'ghcup compile ghc -v 8.10.4 -b 8.10.3' was blowing up with that autoconf-related thing for me? |
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| 21:10:27 | <maerwald> | koz_: no... I just built a alpine 32bit 8.10.4 bindist |
| 21:10:51 | <koz_> | maerwald: I can get you more logs if that'd help? |
| 21:11:09 | <maerwald> | I think the best way is to reproduce it in a docker container |
| 21:11:35 | <koz_> | You think my system autoconf is too new or something? |
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| 21:18:29 | <maerwald> | m4 macros are sometimes installed by other system packages |
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| 21:18:47 | <koz_> | Ah, so I might be _missing_ something. |
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| 21:46:17 | <tomsmeding> | "Pattern match checker ran into -fmax-pmcheck-models=100 limit" |
| 21:46:20 | <tomsmeding> | that's a first! |
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| 21:46:46 | <tomsmeding> | pattern matching strings is not great apparently :p |
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| 21:51:37 | <EvanR> | to select a result depending on a string from a large collection try a trie |
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| 22:09:12 | my_name_is_not_j | sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/RZNtYQfQyArRcPKcNSUqRWDp/message.txt > |
| 22:09:20 | <my_name_is_not_j> | Does anyone how know how to read it? |
| 22:09:33 | <my_name_is_not_j> | For ~varid~ and ~conid~ I |
| 22:09:42 | <my_name_is_not_j> | * For ~varid~ and ~conid~ I'm not sure what it's saying |
| 22:10:01 | <my_name_is_not_j> | Is <reserveid> just supposed to be a set subtraction? So anything in angle brackets is a set subtraction? |
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| 22:10:29 | <my_name_is_not_j> | Is there documentation that explains this syntax somewhere? |
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| 22:12:53 | <int-e> | my_name_is_not_j: it's a variant of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_Backus-Naur_form |
| 22:13:26 | <my_name_is_not_j> | * For `varid` and `conid` I'm not sure what it's saying |
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| 22:14:05 | <my_name_is_not_j> | Ah, so is this not Haskell syntax? |
| 22:14:25 | <int-e> | it's a "large" meaning capital letter, followed by zero or more other symbols as listed. |
| 22:14:27 | <Ferdirand> | well it's a formal description of haskell syntax |
| 22:14:30 | <monochrom> | Yes set subtraction. |
| 22:14:39 | <int-e> | indeed it's not haskell syntax |
| 22:15:00 | <int-e> | it *describes* some of haskell's lexemes |
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| 22:15:15 | <monochrom> | E.g., varid is (small {small | large | digit | ' }) except that anything matching reservedid doesn't count |
| 22:16:03 | <monochrom> | So for example "if" satisfies (small {small | large | digit | ' }) but it also satisfies reservedid, so "if" is not a varid. |
| 22:16:06 | <my_name_is_not_j> | The website I got it from is called "The Haskell 98 Report". Is this a reliable resource, or out of date? (98 makes me think of 1998, so wondering if I should use some other resource for things like these) |
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| 22:16:45 | <my_name_is_not_j> | Yep, makes sense |
| 22:16:50 | <my_name_is_not_j> | First time I'm hearing of BNF form, but I have made parsers before lol |
| 22:17:11 | <yushyin> | lol |
| 22:17:55 | <int-e> | yes, it's a reliable source but out of date. https://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/haskell2010/ is more current and still out of date if you plan to use ghc |
| 22:18:11 | <monochrom> | Not surprisingly, people can even create whole programming languages without having ever heard of (or thought of, for that matter) operational semantics or denotational semantics. Just look at tcl, perl, php. |
| 22:18:34 | <monochrom> | This is why parsing perl is undecidable. |
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| 22:19:08 | <my_name_is_not_j> | <int-e "yes, it's a reliable source but "> What is the most up to date resource currently? |
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| 22:20:01 | <monochrom> | For that, you have to take Haskell 2010 and add all the additions described in the GHC User's Guide. |
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| 22:21:26 | <tomsmeding> | Haskell 2010 _is_ up to date, it's just not _complete_: GHC adds more things |
| 22:22:15 | <tomsmeding> | (I guess ignoring the "known bugs and infelicities" in the GHC user's guide, which are relatively minor in the grand scheme of things) |
| 22:22:58 | <monochrom> | In fact, Haskell 2010 section 2.1 explains those {small | big} notations. |
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| 22:35:11 | <my_name_is_not_j> | Thank you everyone. |
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| 22:38:32 | <Squarism> | have a existential type that attains different types depending on version. Wrote a Aeson (de-)/serializer for it but feel im doing unecessary clumsy. https://paste.ofcode.org/dWAUtadSGrTqk4EXrMLwxR |
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| 22:44:15 | <tomsmeding> | Squarism: the () -> is at least unnecessary |
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| 22:45:08 | <tomsmeding> | 'join $ byVersion <$> ver0' is, I think, just 'ver0 >>= byVersion' |
| 22:45:11 | <ski> | as is `Applicative m' |
| 22:45:23 | <ski> | yes |
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| 22:45:54 | <ski> | one possibility could be to make `Version' a GADT |
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| 22:46:12 | <ski> | (that already encodes whether to use `A' or `B') |
| 22:46:48 | <ski> | also i'm not sure why you have both `FromJSON b' and `FromJSON (Reg b)' |
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| 22:48:02 | <ski> | (also several of the extensions looks like you're not using them .. but quite possibly (some) of those are needed for code that you elided) |
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| 22:49:15 | <Squarism> | Ah nice. Some good input there |
| 22:49:53 | <ski> | one possibility could be to avoid naming `byVersion', instead directly writing a `case' |
| 22:50:18 | <ski> | do version <- ver0 |
| 22:50:33 | <ski> | case version of |
| 22:51:17 | <ski> | 1 -> do reg :: Reg A <- f |
| 22:51:34 | <ski> | return (ExistBox version reg) |
| 22:51:39 | <ski> | &c. |
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| 22:53:17 | <ski> | (if `Version' was a GADT, you wouldn't need doing a `case' there, possibly) |
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| 22:54:59 | <fendor> | Looking at a recent python drama (https://github.com/pyca/cryptography/issues/5771), I am suddenly very happy with cabal and stack |
| 22:55:02 | <Squarism> | Thanks, i incorporated all mentioned and it works great. Thanks again |
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| 22:59:35 | <ski> | Squarism : did you consider making a GADT ? |
| 23:00:15 | <Squarism> | ski, ill ponder it. But i want to keep it simple stupid =D |
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| 23:00:24 | ski | nods |
| 23:00:41 | <ski> | (i guess i was mostly wondering whether you understood what i meant, when i said that) |
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| 23:04:33 | <Squarism> | ski, i imagine have some understanding what GADTS are, but how would integer value convert to a different type? |
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| 23:06:12 | <ski> | Squarism : well, it would be possible to, if you parse e.g. a `1', to give `One' as a result, where `One :: Version A' |
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| 23:09:06 | <Squarism> | ah right. |
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| 23:27:31 | <mjacob> | i'm working through the paper "Functional Programming with Structured Graphs" (https://www.cs.utexas.edu/~wcook/Drafts/2012/graphs.pdf) |
| 23:27:34 | <mjacob> | i fail to understand what sfold is |
| 23:27:46 | <mjacob> | the paper says "Finally, the sfold function is yet another variant of fold-like operations. It uses a special fixpoint operation fixVal, which works for monotonic functions and values that support a comparison operation.", but that describes only a specific aspect of sfold |
| 23:28:42 | <mjacob> | is someone familiar with the paper or representations of graph-shaped data in haskell (or any other purely functional programming language) in general? |
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| 23:32:25 | <Athas> | What the hell, apparently the parse error "Tuple section in pattern context" does not come with source location information. |
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| 23:46:54 | <Axman6> | "This is so bad, I'm not even going to tell you where it is in case someone else sees it" |
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| 23:58:56 | <ski> | at least it didn't delete the source :) |
| 23:59:09 | <Axman6> | Back in my day... |
| 23:59:21 | <Axman6> | still the best compiler bug ever |
All times are in UTC on 2021-02-08.