Logs on 2021-02-13 (freenode/#haskell)
| 00:00:01 | <f-a> | is this knows? Are there workarounds beside downgrading ghc? |
| 00:00:48 | <f-a> | cabal-install version 3.2.0.0 and The Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation System, version 9.0.1 btw |
| 00:01:13 | <sclv> | afaik a Cabal that works with ghc 9.0.1 hasn't been released yet |
| 00:01:21 | <f-a> | thanks sclv |
| 00:01:27 | <f-a> | I was weirded out by that number |
| 00:01:37 | <f-a> | since today I saw a 8.10.something released |
| 00:02:00 | <sclv> | they released both a first in the 9 series and a final patch release for the 8.10 series |
| 00:02:08 | <sclv> | with the latter _finally_ getting windows working afaik |
| 00:02:19 | <sclv> | which was busted for almost the whole 8.10 series in a variety of ways |
| 00:03:42 | <f-a> | yeah he is on windows too |
| 00:04:23 | <f-a> | I confess it is a bit weird to have a release which is not compatible with one of the two main build tools |
| 00:04:48 | <sclv> | well there's a chicken-egg problem |
| 00:05:06 | <sclv> | and usually its resolved behind the scenes though with a little angst |
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| 00:06:00 | <f-a> | understandable understandable, I should zip my mouth and contribute |
| 00:06:03 | <sclv> | but we're especially delayed because some transitive deps of cabal-install haven't upgraded to work with 9.0.1 either and the maintainers haven't been responsive, so there's work to add new maintainers for htem, make new releases of a chunk of other things so the dominos can all fall down |
| 00:06:17 | <f-a> | ohhh I have seen a thread on the ML |
| 00:06:34 | <sclv> | i usually never use a fresh off the oven series release because its Always something |
| 00:06:55 | <f-a> | yeah me too |
| 00:07:06 | <sclv> | let the early adopters sort that out and also like shake out a round or two of bugs and regressions |
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| 00:07:38 | <f-a> | well, early adopters and in this case people who do not fancy chocolatey and went to the download page directly |
| 00:07:39 | <sclv> | "if it ain't at least point oh-two, then production use just won't do" |
| 00:08:10 | <f-a> | also I have another question, most likely sillier |
| 00:08:28 | <f-a> | I see there are — say — some ARM machines (consoles, controllers, etc.) |
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| 00:08:57 | <f-a> | what keeps me from using ghc to spt out .ll files and with some tweaking compile them for machine K? |
| 00:09:46 | <dmj`> | f-a: Cabal (the library) is a boot pkg of GHC, and therefore has to be delivered with GHC. So odds are, there is a working Cabal with GHC 9.0.1 |
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| 00:09:52 | <monochrom> | When GHC 8.8 came out, it did not build the Cabal version (or cabal-install version? I forgot) of that time, too. |
| 00:10:27 | <f-a> | I ask because I wrote a small game, terminal based, and poking friends to build it is always a pain |
| 00:11:13 | <f-a> | I have seen that, e.g. fpc compiles to game boy, and that would be awesome (to compile a rom for a well-known and well-emulated™ machine) |
| 00:11:15 | <sclv> | oh good point they're building 3.2.0.1 but the latest is 3.4, which was just released https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Cabal |
| 00:11:53 | <sclv> | but cabal-install still hasn't been released that's compat, so i assume that's what causes the issue |
| 00:12:16 | <f-a> | ah, now I see |
| 00:12:18 | <sclv> | iirc there _is_ a "via llvm" path for cross-compiling to arm |
| 00:12:55 | <f-a> | sclv: yeah I was wondering about that, is it a viable path for someone with some time on their hands or a hopeless task? |
| 00:13:01 | <sclv> | but like its going to be compiling to "some version of some *nix on the arm" not just "bare metal" |
| 00:13:08 | <sclv> | so it depends on what machine! |
| 00:13:25 | <f-a> | mhhhh I see |
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| 00:14:10 | <sclv> | i know some people have made it work, i just don't know the state of the art. ghc wiki has some hints: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/building/cross-compiling |
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| 00:15:08 | <dmj`> | Nix is probably your best bet for cross compiling Haskell to ARM |
| 00:15:09 | <sclv> | (template haskell in any deps was famously a big obstacle to xcomp, but i think there's a path around that now, although its a bit delicate) |
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| 00:15:22 | <f-a> | thanks |
| 00:16:33 | <dmj`> | Just give up if you're using TH and need to cross compile. Replace all the TH with Generics or something |
| 00:16:55 | <f-a> | I suppose that means in your dependencies too |
| 00:17:01 | <f-a> | and I have no idea if they are using th :P |
| 00:17:11 | <dmj`> | Otherwise you'll need like a remote builder (I've done for iOS w/ my iPhone), to send splices to your ARM device, compiled, and sent back |
| 00:17:22 | <dmj`> | over the network with ghc-iserv |
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| 00:19:55 | <dmj`> | f-a: most shouldn't, or provide a way to disable it. Also compiling code that has TH isn't the same as needing to evaluate the splices |
| 00:20:20 | <f-a> | true |
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| 00:22:33 | <dmj`> | f-a: hopefully you don't want to target iOS, XCode is like 12GB, and you have to add it manually as a derivation |
| 00:23:45 | <f-a> | dmj`: in my dreams — prepare to laugh — I wanted to target something, I don’t know something like FreeDos or GBA or any «old» machine which is well emulated |
| 00:23:58 | <f-a> | so to provide a single rom to everyone wantiing to test the game |
| 00:24:05 | <f-a> | as I understand, this is impossible |
| 00:24:55 | <dmj`> | f-a: w/ GHC ? |
| 00:25:27 | <f-a> | dmj`: yes |
| 00:25:55 | <f-a> | (the idea: generating some .ll files and, uhhh, I don’t know) |
| 00:26:31 | <f-a> | it all started from me reading fpc homepage https://www.freepascal.org/ they have lots of archs listed and apparently a lot of them are available via/thanks to llvm |
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| 00:27:57 | <dmj`> | f-a: you might be better served with a DSL, or something that generates the .ll using only functions you provide, could even be in a monad. Cross compilation is a huge pain because of TH, and even then, you'd still need the GHC RTS on the GBA. |
| 00:28:35 | <dmj`> | f-a: WASM is having a similar problem w/ GHC, it's just too large, the output, for all the flavors of GHC->WASM |
| 00:28:55 | <f-a> | how do they solve it? |
| 00:29:16 | <f-a> | indeed my game is pretty small (it was a jam game, terminal based) and yet even stripped quite hefty |
| 00:29:25 | <dmj`> | f-a: I don't think it's solved. |
| 00:31:32 | <dmj`> | f-a: might be better to write a compiler in Haskell to target your architecture |
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| 00:32:42 | <monochrom> | Hey, I dreamed of running Haskell code on Apple II, too. |
| 00:33:37 | <monochrom> | My http://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/cont.xhtml#yield has an exercise that says "Extra credit for getting it to run on an Apple II or a Commodore 64" |
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| 00:34:37 | <dmj`> | oof |
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| 00:38:12 | <dmj`> | think I just ruined his dream |
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| 01:36:07 | <slack1256> | Has any university or company made an analysis on where geographically are haskell programmers located? |
| 01:36:36 | <slack1256> | I need to convince some clients that apart from me, there are other haskell programmers available on my zone. |
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| 01:37:08 | <f-a> | there is the haskell survey |
| 01:37:27 | <f-a> | https://taylor.fausak.me/2020/11/22/haskell-survey-results/ |
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| 01:37:53 | <f-a> | see: https://taylor.fausak.me/2020/11/22/haskell-survey-results/#s7q0 |
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| 01:38:44 | <slack1256> | Nice, this is just what I needed. |
| 01:38:50 | <slack1256> | I mean, it doesn |
| 01:39:18 | <slack1256> | I mean it doesn't support my case, but there is another country why the same language that has many programmers. Nice |
| 01:39:27 | <slack1256> | s/why/with/ |
| 01:40:04 | <slack1256> | Thanks f-a . |
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| 02:23:30 | <swarmcollective> | merijn, with regards to the channel library, you said the channel will drop items when no receiver is connected. What about the option to retain only the last item written to the channel, such that once a receiver connects, it would receive it? Thoughts? |
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| 04:05:13 | <kupi> | is there a way to write this prettier? https://gist.github.com/theqp/d521b18725fd7cb4a6f3f17d494f27e7 |
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| 04:35:54 | <ski> | > take 2 (sortBy (flip compare) [3,5,2]) |
| 04:35:56 | <lambdabot> | [5,3] |
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| 05:11:25 | <kupi> | ski: thought about that, but the problem with that nothing guarantees the list has 3 elements |
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| 05:21:39 | <ski> | kupi : if you put three elements in a list, you'd be guranteeding it has three elements |
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| 05:22:35 | <kupi> | true, but I like to solve things the hard way |
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| 05:23:03 | <kupi> | with HList it's possible to write a function for a list with two numbers? |
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| 05:23:08 | <kupi> | *three |
| 05:23:43 | <ski> | ordinary lists suffices for that |
| 05:25:02 | <kupi> | ah you mean inlining take 2 (sortBy (flip compare) into sumOfLargestTwoSquared? but then I have to convert it to a tuple |
| 05:25:42 | <kupi> | nvm, map square >>> sum |
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| 05:33:58 | <kupi> | [x, y, z] & sort & tail & map square & sum |
| 05:36:15 | <kupi> | is there a way to find out a function is how many times used on hackage? |
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| 05:37:53 | <giogiogio> | ski: hi |
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| 11:36:16 | <merijn> | swarmcollective: That would require a fundamentally different implementation that'd have considerable performance impact, so that'd probably have to be an entirely different channel type |
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| 12:17:24 | <samlamamma> | Do you guys allow for off-topic talk? I've got some questions re: pl theory and type systems |
| 12:19:33 | <merijn> | samlamamma: That's usually considered *somewhat* on topic :p |
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| 12:23:08 | <samlamamma> | Haha cool, I'll have a go then :-). For different theories of logic we have the Nelson-Oppen combination procedure. This means that we can have separate theories regarding lists and uninterpreted functions and then combine them to express properties regarding both. This is cool! |
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| 12:25:13 | <samlamamma> | For PLs we typically pick 1 type theory. TypeScript has one, Haskell has one (with a lot of extensions), Rust has one, and so on. This is nice, we essentially restrict our semantics in some ways in order to make creating correct systems easier (HS: I/O is explicitly tracked => reasoning about functions as *actual* functions and not procedures, RS: no aliasing *and* mutation at the same time => correct shared memory concurrency). |
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| 12:27:08 | <samlamamma> | Why can't 1 language have multiple type systems that can be turned on and off or combined in some Nelson-Oppen for TS? I think that sounds great. |
| 12:27:46 | <samlamamma> | Like (with-type-system NoMut+Alias (do-concurrent-stuff)) |
| 12:27:47 | <merijn> | I think the main issue is that most people haven't found a way to do that in a practical way yet, tbh |
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| 12:28:07 | <merijn> | samlamamma: You also need to work out and ensure that all 2^n combinations work |
| 12:28:18 | <merijn> | Which rather complicates your proofs :) |
| 12:28:27 | <merijn> | Unless you can prove they're independent, but that's also hard |
| 12:28:35 | <samlamamma> | Yeah, I think the closest to that is the gradual typing research (which is just "here's 2 type systems, let's have em work together") |
| 12:29:32 | <samlamamma> | This is why I'm like "But Nelson-Oppen!!!", is it trivial to see why we can't construct type systems which are composable? Cuz I don't see it |
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| 12:30:12 | <merijn> | samlamamma: Eh...implement a proof of concept and you're a shoe in for publication at ICFP or POPL, I think :p |
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| 12:33:59 | <samlamamma> | merijn: Haha yeah :-). I get that it's a bit out there, but I just assumed that someone would roll their eyes and be like "No, this is obviously not possible" |
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| 13:24:31 | <tromp> | i'm having problems running ghc on my MacOSX upgraded to Catalina. brew install ghc supposedly upgraded to ghc 8.10.3 but my /usr/local/bin/ghc is still 8.6.3 |
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| 13:25:14 | <tromp> | just tried installing from https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/ but that fails with [ ghc-configure ] configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables |
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| 13:26:59 | <tromp> | ghc-configure.log says See `config.log' for more details but i don't see that file |
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| 13:27:56 | <tromp> | ah, found it |
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| 13:33:43 | <tromp> | configure:3862: gcc -V >&5 |
| 13:33:43 | <tromp> | gcc: error: unrecognized command-line option '-V' |
| 13:34:01 | <tromp> | is how things start going wrong |
| 13:34:17 | <geekosaur> | that should not be related to the actual error |
| 13:34:18 | <merijn> | Sounds like your gcc is broken |
| 13:34:22 | <tromp> | gcc --version |
| 13:34:22 | <tromp> | gcc (Homebrew GCC 10.2.0_3) 10.2.0 |
| 13:34:42 | <merijn> | tromp: oh, macOS, do you have XCode commandline tools installed? |
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| 13:35:10 | <tromp> | yes, i ran xcode-select --install |
| 13:35:19 | <merijn> | hmm |
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| 13:41:15 | <tromp> | seems same problem as on https://stackoverflow.com/questions/58036549/configure-error-c-compiler-cannot-create-executables-mac-sierra |
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| 13:42:53 | <merijn> | tromp: What happens when you remove homebrew gcc from your path |
| 13:44:46 | <tromp> | then i get clang |
| 13:44:57 | <tromp> | which also doesn't know -V |
| 13:46:01 | <tromp> | or rather, expects an argument for -V |
| 13:46:07 | <merijn> | tromp: I mean, I've installed GHC on macOS dozens of times over the past years and never had issues, but I also never had homebrew compilers lying around |
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| 13:46:37 | <merijn> | It could very well be that bug is much earlier in the configure |
| 13:46:49 | <merijn> | In that it is running the wrong tests due to a misdetection earlier |
| 13:47:15 | <tromp> | but configure seems to rely on gcc knowing -V |
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| 13:48:16 | <tromp> | or do you think that earlier it should have detected that my gcc is the kind that needs --version ? |
| 13:48:29 | <merijn> | Yes, no, maybe, who knows |
| 13:49:01 | <merijn> | That's why I suggested running configure with no Homebrew compiler on your path (or maybe avoid entire homebrew dir on your path to see if it works then |
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| 13:49:30 | <tromp> | actually, i do see earlier invocations of gcc --version |
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| 13:51:52 | <tromp> | maybe it's just testing whether my gcc knows -V, rather than relying on it |
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| 13:52:57 | <tromp> | later it barfs on |
| 13:53:00 | <tromp> | configure:3915: gcc -I/usr/local/opt/openssl/include -L/usr/local/opt/openssl/lib conftest.c >&5 |
| 13:53:01 | <tromp> | ld: library not found for -lSystem |
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| 13:56:07 | <tromp> | i think it was due to some alias i had. |
| 13:56:14 | <tromp> | alias openclc=/System/Library/Frameworks/OpenCL.framework/Libraries/openclc |
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| 13:56:32 | <tromp> | can't remember why i put that in my bash_profile |
| 13:56:41 | <tromp> | but just undid it |
| 13:57:57 | <tromp> | cool, i can run ghc again |
| 13:58:56 | <tromp> | thx for help, merijn |
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| 17:11:47 | <h2017> | hi |
| 17:12:03 | <h2017> | if i have a choice between functional dependencies type families which should i choose? |
| 17:12:39 | <merijn> | "It Depends" |
| 17:12:52 | <merijn> | I find type families easier to reason about, but they don't infer well |
| 17:13:16 | <merijn> | If you're willing to abandon type inference, that's no problem, though |
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| 18:50:51 | <monochrom> | Associated type family, with the associated class using functional dependency. You can have both. |
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| 19:27:51 | <shapr> | @quote |
| 19:27:51 | <lambdabot> | ValarQ says: l33t_h4x0r: could you help me port GHC to the AVR architecture? <-- l33t_h4x0r has left #haskell |
| 19:27:59 | <shapr> | whoa, harsh |
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| 19:39:05 | <monochrom> | Generally, those who call themselves "elite hackers" are clowns. |
| 19:39:51 | <merijn> | monochrom: What if I'm both? :> |
| 19:40:04 | <Clint> | decades of evidence support that conclusion |
| 19:40:06 | <monochrom> | yeah yeah there are exceptions |
| 19:40:15 | <Logio> | like the people who hack Elite the game |
| 19:40:47 | <Logio> | that's no clown business, unless you hack it to mod in clown graphics |
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| 19:42:02 | <monochrom> | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXmv8quf_xM is the example I really like about self-proclaimed hackers. |
| 19:42:20 | <monochrom> | (Oddly, I now find him looking very like Chris Allen...) |
| 19:43:40 | <MarcelineVQ> | needs glasses |
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| 19:54:16 | <whataday> | f::a->b ; g:: (a->r)->r ; fmap f g = ? |
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| 19:55:55 | <tomsmeding> | `/quit |
| 19:55:59 | <tomsmeding> | ..... sorry |
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| 20:23:12 | <madnificent> | I'm getting hGetContents: illegal operation (delayed read on closed handle) when reading a file and processing it lazily. Is there a way to force reading of the file? |
| 20:23:39 | <merijn> | madnificent: Don't use lazy IO? :) |
| 20:23:46 | <merijn> | madnificent: How big a file are we talking? |
| 20:24:01 | <madnificent> | merijn: yes, how? :) |
| 20:24:04 | <merijn> | And which hGetContents are you using? (String, ByteString, Text?) |
| 20:24:07 | <madnificent> | Smal, I'm unknowing |
| 20:24:13 | <madnificent> | *small |
| 20:24:26 | <merijn> | What's small? kilobytes? megabytes? |
| 20:24:47 | <madnificent> | bytes. I mean, I'm really unknowing and toying around. There is zero reason not to load it in memory :P |
| 20:25:29 | <Uniaika> | madnificent: never use lazy IO |
| 20:25:30 | <merijn> | And I assume it's the String based hGetContents from base? |
| 20:26:03 | <madnificent> | It is almost 1kb, assuming 1 byte per character :P I simply don't know what to search for in the documentation. A pointer should be enough. |
| 20:26:07 | <merijn> | madnificent: You almost certainly want to use the hGetContents/readFile from either strict Text (if text, duh) or strict ByteString |
| 20:26:22 | <madnificent> | Thank you :D |
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| 20:26:31 | <merijn> | @hackage text |
| 20:26:31 | <lambdabot> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/text |
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| 20:26:56 | <merijn> | madnificent: Specifically Data.Text.IO.{hGetContents,readFile} |
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| 20:27:32 | <merijn> | madnificent: You generally wanna use Text for processing files anyway. String use *stupidly* much memory for non-trivial text sizes |
| 20:28:16 | <madnificent> | I am still in trivial land, but that's good to know |
| 20:28:26 | <merijn> | madnificent: i.e. probably around 24 bytes per characters for String vs ~2 per character vs Text :) |
| 20:28:44 | <merijn> | madnificent: When I say non-trivial I mean "more then, like, 100 characters" :) |
| 20:29:28 | <alexfmpe> | what can I use if I want a 'interpret-bind' free monad rather than a 'interpret-join' (e.g. Control.Monad.Free.Free) one? |
| 20:29:28 | <alexfmpe> | I've found `operational` and `monad-skeleton` which look like what I want, but both seem to not have been touched in > 3 years - is there some other alternative? |
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| 20:31:47 | <monochrom> | 24 bytes per list node for String. Not quite per character, GHC plays a flyweight trick, if you have 10000 'a's they share the same copy of 'a'. |
| 20:32:08 | <merijn> | monochrom: GHC does interning? |
| 20:32:22 | <monochrom> | yes |
| 20:32:37 | <monochrom> | But still, you have 10000 (:) nodes. |
| 20:32:38 | <merijn> | monochrom: For which values? Presumably not for tens of thousand unicode codepoints |
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| 20:33:01 | <monochrom> | "the small ones" but at least all of ASCII is covered. |
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| 20:33:11 | <johnw> | alexfmpe: I wouldn't take the age of operational as a necessarily bad sign |
| 20:33:12 | <madnificent> | merijn: not sure if it matters too much for my current toy. I'm treating the text as a matrix and convert the character values to another type. Though it seems the Text package contains all I need. |
| 20:33:23 | <monochrom> | I didn't check whether the table is dynamically expanded. |
| 20:34:06 | <merijn> | madnificent: It probably doesn't matter for toys, but it's good to get in the habit of using Text/ByteString (that last name is a historical accident, pretend it says "Bytes") where appropriate for when toys accidentally turn into non-toys :) |
| 20:34:22 | <madnificent> | agree |
| 20:34:37 | <merijn> | madnificent: Besides, converting from Text to String is a trivial "Data.Text.unpack" away :) |
| 20:35:21 | <merijn> | Besides Text has copies of basically the entire prelude String API |
| 20:35:22 | <alexfmpe> | johnw: Yeah I'm not worried of it being old per-se, just that it makes me wonder if some alternative cropped up and everyone moved over |
| 20:35:35 | <johnw> | alexfmpe: well, if you want algebraic effects, then yes, tons |
| 20:35:50 | <johnw> | alexfmpe: if you just want free monads for some other reason, it's still effective at what it advertises to do |
| 20:35:55 | <merijn> | Algebraic effects libraries are like cockroaches |
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| 20:36:16 | <merijn> | If you see one, you can be sure there's a million others crawling around :p |
| 20:36:17 | <madnificent> | merijn: Yes, I thought it would be overkill, but everything seems to be in there. It's even a good exercise for my current state :D |
| 20:36:24 | <johnw> | I think we need an algebraic effect to describe the proliferation of algebraic effects libraries |
| 20:36:46 | <johnw> | they also seem to be so short-lived before the next one appears... |
| 20:37:15 | <johnw> | what's the new hotness these days? still fused-effects? |
| 20:37:22 | <johnw> | or that name I can never remember? |
| 20:37:23 | <alexfmpe> | well what I think I want is something that lets me 'intercept' the continuation like ContT but at every level |
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| 20:38:45 | <alexfmpe> | something like Free over ContT might also work, but the operational ProgramT thing seemed to map one-to-one to what I had in mind |
| 20:38:50 | <johnw> | alexfmpe: ContT is really just FreeT encoded as functions, so I start with the lattr |
| 20:39:15 | <merijn> | johnw: The one by...I forget her name...but she made a GHC proposal to add some new primitives for algebraic effects that got accepted, so I'm assuming that's the latest hotness if it warrants modifying GHC :P |
| 20:39:20 | <monochrom> | I think the proliferation of effect libraries is a co-algebra. :) |
| 20:39:39 | <alexfmpe> | merijn: Emily Philmore & eff ? |
| 20:39:50 | <johnw> | polysemy? is that the one? |
| 20:40:15 | <shapr> | Lexi |
| 20:40:27 | <alexfmpe> | oops yeah |
| 20:40:44 | edwardk | waves to johnw. |
| 20:40:51 | <johnw> | hi edwardk!! |
| 20:40:56 | <merijn> | Oh, I think I'm thinking of Lexi? |
| 20:41:02 | <johnw> | I'm missing all of your cats adolescent years |
| 20:41:03 | <edwardk> | merijn: yeah |
| 20:41:19 | <edwardk> | indeed. they are still ridiculously energetic |
| 20:41:29 | <merijn> | cats \o/ |
| 20:42:09 | <alexfmpe> | for a second I thought that was about the scala cats |
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| 20:42:40 | <merijn> | http://lambdacats.org/ clearly :p |
| 20:42:42 | <johnw> | his cats are so looooooooong |
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| 20:43:44 | <edwardk> | Morpheus is. Artemis is very tiny but has oh-so-many claws. |
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| 20:43:54 | <merijn> | johnw: They make for terrible pair programming partners, though |
| 20:44:06 | <edwardk> | merijn: i beg to differ. |
| 20:44:13 | <merijn> | johnw: http://files.inconsistent.nl/uninterested-coworker.jpg <- not even pretending to watch the code! |
| 20:44:37 | <alexfmpe> | to be fair, there's no code in the screen in that photo |
| 20:44:59 | <merijn> | That's because it's on the main screen, not the laptop screen :p |
| 20:45:03 | <johnw> | that's why they got board |
| 20:45:12 | <edwardk> | The main difficulty is figuring out how to type with one hand, while offering suitable amounts of attention with the other. |
| 20:45:14 | <monochrom> | long dogs are hotdogs. long cats are hotcats. |
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| 20:45:37 | <merijn> | The desktop has an open top where the GPU's hot air vents, you get one guess what the favourite spot during gaming is :p |
| 20:45:41 | <edwardk> | Face nuzzles can be a bit distracting when you're trying to focus, but ultimately it seems worth it. |
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| 20:45:58 | <johnw> | edwardk: agreed. Not every path to happiness is an efficient one. |
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| 20:46:37 | <merijn> | edwardk: She's mostly to lazy for those, but then she's older then yours if they're adolescents :p |
| 20:46:49 | <edwardk> | Mine are now going on 2 years old. |
| 20:47:07 | <MarcelineVQ> | lexilambcat? |
| 20:47:35 | <merijn> | Yeah, she's 12-14 (age uncertain, she came from a shelter at a young age, but they weren't sure exactly how old she was) |
| 20:47:56 | <edwardk> | But we made the mistake of kinda rescuing a couple of rather more exotic than average cats, so they still zoom around the house at all hours of the day and night, bleeding off energy. |
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| 20:49:12 | <edwardk> | shachaf is our official videographer/photographer but alas, he has been remiss in his duties since covid started. https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPJdCS8781XdYvzPVRx8wUGoYzf43Sqk_dr-S9QHDXinbz8fPIKMeZ1EjxuQ0Vvug?key=aUNONW5XeGZWdmthWG5LX0NHTGtXWV9lNjUtbWpR |
| 20:49:36 | <edwardk> | ^- those are from when they were ~8 weeks old and we brought them home. |
| 20:50:00 | <merijn> | edwardk: Isn't it amazing how true the cardboard box stereotype is? |
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| 20:56:31 | <edwardk> | I wish the clangjit code would merge into mainline clang. I have so many projects that could benefit from runtime template specialization of an external c++ library from within haskell. |
| 20:56:55 | <edwardk> | apropos of nothing, just what was on my brain =) |
| 20:57:02 | <merijn> | edwardk: That sounds extremely cursed |
| 20:57:17 | <edwardk> | cursed but fast is still fast |
| 20:57:27 | <merijn> | Actually, anything with C++ templates is cursed >.> |
| 20:58:41 | <edwardk> | templates are perfectly readable: https://github.com/ekmett/bad/blob/main/include/bad/storage/einsum.hh#L62 |
| 20:59:11 | <merijn> | edwardk: I'm impressed |
| 20:59:26 | <merijn> | edwardk: That's the first time I see someone produce more cursed templates than me :p |
| 20:59:45 | <edwardk> | this was just the first one in this repo that i reached for ;) |
| 20:59:53 | <edwardk> | actually its a pretty nice template. |
| 21:00:35 | <edwardk> | in the end it allows me to do a weird mix of macros and templates to make a usable einsum where you supply me a couple of compile time strings via the macro and i convert them to a bunch of nested for loops |
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| 21:01:04 | <merijn> | edwardk: All I can personally think when I see my templates is "should've written this in Haskell" >.> |
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| 21:01:32 | <edwardk> | e.g. matrix multiplication = einsum(ij,jk,il)(x,y) trace = einsum(ii,)(x), dot = einsum(i,i,)(x,y), etc. |
| 21:01:47 | <edwardk> | thing is i can't get haskell to smash this code nearly so flat or to run in cuda. |
| 21:03:02 | <edwardk> | and I want all the compile time optimization from known dimensions. to get anything like it i'd have to use backpack for _every_ instantiation of a tensor. |
| 21:03:16 | <merijn> | edwardk: So you want SaC? ;) |
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| 21:05:04 | <merijn> | edwardk: One of the coolest features was that (since you hit diminishing returns after a certain number of cores) they'd just dedicate 1 core to runtime specialise matrix operations for specific size that occur frequently |
| 21:05:17 | <edwardk> | my current goal is to get nested einsums to turn into a pile of expression templates that then at compile time optimize their reduction order |
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| 21:05:48 | <edwardk> | that's the job of the gpu for the most part |
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| 21:45:55 | <DigitalKiwi> | merijn: have you seen the ones of bobcats/mountain lions playing in cardboard boxes? |
| 21:46:12 | <DigitalKiwi> | uh |
| 21:46:50 | <DigitalKiwi> | they were here when i started typing i tab completed their nick :( |
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All times are in UTC on 2021-02-13.