Logs on 2021-02-18 (freenode/#haskell)
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| 00:09:14 | <shapr> | -XStrict |
| 00:13:29 | <Axman6> | thise whole channel just got way more fun. We're all going to have to work a lot harder |
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| 00:31:23 | <monochrom> | I don't want to work harder! |
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| 00:31:33 | <Axman6> | Stop being lazy! |
| 00:31:35 | <monochrom> | As hard as necessary, but no harder. |
| 00:31:45 | <monochrom> | work-by-neeed |
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| 00:36:11 | <monochrom> | "how to work-by-need in a work-by-value society without being called lazy" would make a nice paper in social science :) |
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| 00:39:25 | <Axman6> | HAskells saving the world, but only when they have to |
| 00:40:53 | <koz_> | How do I DerivingVia a Sieve instance over a newtype around Star f a b? |
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| 00:41:01 | <koz_> | I'm not quite sure how one spells such a derivation. |
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| 00:42:59 | <Axman6> | going to need to see more code than that to be able to help |
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| 00:43:55 | <koz_> | Axman6: I have 'newtype Foo a b = Foo (Star (Either SomeThing) a b) |
| 00:43:58 | <koz_> | ' |
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| 00:44:17 | <koz_> | I wanna derive 'Sieve Foo (Either SomeThing)'. |
| 00:44:38 | <koz_> | This is doable because you have 'instance (Functor f) => Sieve (Star f) f' |
| 00:44:43 | <koz_> | How do I spell the DerivingVia in this case? |
| 00:45:47 | <Axman6> | what have you tried? |
| 00:46:15 | <koz_> | I can't even get this off the ground, because if I try 'deriving (Sieve Foo (Either SomeThing)) via (Star (Either SomeThing))', I get a complaint that 'Sieve Foo (Either SomeThing)' is not a unary constraint. |
| 00:46:18 | <Axman6> | hmm, MPTCs and deriving via feels weird, but should be doable |
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| 00:47:08 | <koz_> | I can hand-roll it of course, but it'd be nice if it can be DerivingVia'd., |
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| 00:50:38 | <Axman6> | Apparently this is valid STandaloneDeriving syntax: deriving via (a -> App m b) instance Monoid (Kleisli m a b) |
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| 00:50:44 | <Axman6> | at the top level of the file |
| 00:50:50 | <Axman6> | deriving via (a -> App m b) instance Monoid (Kleisli m a b) |
| 00:51:06 | <koz_> | Ah, so I'd have to standalone that? |
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| 00:51:20 | <Axman6> | not sure yif you _have_ to, but it may be easier |
| 00:51:35 | <koz_> | Now that you bring yiff into it, I must. :P |
| 00:51:46 | <koz_> | (sorry, I'm in a silly mood) |
| 00:53:53 | <koz_> | OK, I'm just gonna hand-roll for now. Maybe some derivation wizard might notice. |
| 00:53:59 | <koz_> | Or I can just tweet at Iceland_jack or something. |
| 00:54:56 | <dolio> | `Sieve` looks like the arguments are in the wrong order for deriving what you want. |
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| 00:55:17 | <dolio> | As part of a deriving clause, that is. |
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| 00:55:42 | <dolio> | Standalone is less constrained, I think. |
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| 01:14:41 | <Tordek> | swarmcollective: https://dpaste.org/6t3V this would be a python version of what I'm thinking; effectively tick yields from the coroutine |
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| 01:16:10 | <koz_> | monochrom: Weak Head Normal Work. |
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| 01:19:04 | <monochrom> | WHNF = work hard no fortune = wealth has no fairness >:) |
| 01:19:21 | <koz_> | monochrom: *butterfly meme* Is this... interdisciplinary? |
| 01:19:34 | <monochrom> | hee hee |
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| 01:21:07 | <monochrom> | Did you know: The Japanese book he's holding is an encyclopedia? I.e., the words on the cover says "encyclopedia" |
| 01:21:18 | <koz_> | monochrom: I am aware, lol. |
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| 01:23:08 | <dolio> | It's not the Japanese Haskell book with evil birds? |
| 01:23:51 | <dolio> | Maybe someone with some photoshop skills can fix it. |
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| 01:43:02 | <monochrom> | Wait, which book is the Japanese Haskell book with evil birds? |
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| 01:45:36 | <dolio> | https://www.amazon.com/%E5%85%A5%E9%96%80Haskell_%E3%81%AF%E3%81%98%E3%82%81%E3%81%A6%E5%AD%A6%E3%81%B6%E9%96%A2%E6%95%B0%E5%9E%8B%E8%A8%80%E8%AA%9E/dp/4839919623 |
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| 01:47:39 | <swarmcollective> | Tordek, these examples are of a single device, no? In this case the RAM device. |
| 01:48:22 | <Tordek> | yeah |
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| 01:52:45 | <swarmcollective> | Tordek, the python version is simulating a preemptive multitasking via the yield return. Am I correct? |
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| 01:53:45 | <Tordek> | cooperative, you mean? |
| 01:53:47 | <swarmcollective> | Maintaining state via the closure formed when calling the function (memory is in the closure) |
| 01:53:57 | <Tordek> | it's coroutines |
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| 02:05:52 | <Axman6> | has there been any proposal for renaming definitions in imports? import Foo (bar as baz, quuz as q)? |
| 02:06:20 | <Axman6> | seems like a pretty trivial feature |
| 02:12:15 | <swarmcollective> | Tordek, I see what you mean: https://www.schoolofhaskell.com/user/DanBurton/coroutines-for-streaming/part-3-stacking-interfaces |
| 02:13:31 | <swarmcollective> | Axman6, I like that idea. |
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| 02:14:11 | <Axman6> | MAybe I'll write up a ghc proposal |
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| 02:15:07 | <_d0t> | hello! I'm looking for a tasks monitor for Haskell. It should fire up a few async threads, capture and log their exceptions, and restart them if needed. Is there any library implementing this? |
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| 02:16:04 | <_d0t> | Something like distributed-process-task from haskell-distributed would do, but I'm looking for something lighter and more up to date. |
| 02:18:30 | <minoru_shiraeesh> | _d0t: sounds like one could write it manually, if you really mean a light solution |
| 02:19:02 | <_d0t> | minoru_shiraeesh: true true. I had done that already in a project for one of my former employees. But it wasn't open sourced :( |
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| 02:19:38 | <minoru_shiraeesh> | what did you use? I has channels in mind. |
| 02:20:01 | <minoru_shiraeesh> | * had |
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| 02:20:41 | <sm[m]> | _d0t: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/angel |
| 02:20:56 | <_d0t> | minoru_shiraeesh: MonadBaseControl, Async, and some mvars for state control. |
| 02:21:37 | <_d0t> | sm[m]: i should've been more specific. I want a library, not a separate executable. |
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| 02:24:08 | <guest218> | in do notation, return won't immediatly exit whole computation, it returns the last line as result, but in callCC $ \e -> do ..., this `e 42` could exit earlier, right? |
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| 02:27:20 | <ski> | yes |
| 02:28:02 | <guest218> | ski: why people call it "non-local exit"? |
| 02:28:04 | <ski> | (ditto for `throwEither') |
| 02:28:13 | <sm[m]> | _dOt: that's at least something ready made you could start from |
| 02:28:35 | <guest218> | what "local exit" means? |
| 02:28:57 | <ski> | i dunno the context |
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| 02:29:45 | <ski> | (er, sorry. `throwError') |
| 02:30:28 | <ski> | anyway, `callCC' could also be used to reentry the computation again |
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| 02:34:51 | <slack1256> | On Core language, what are this `break`s I am seeing? |
| 02:35:01 | <slack1256> | Let me pastebin it. |
| 02:35:29 | <slack1256> | https://pastebin.com/WcL4bN0N |
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| 02:38:59 | <guest218> | ski: how to reentry? like python's yield? |
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| 02:39:28 | <Rishi1302> | Hi |
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| 02:41:28 | <swarmcollective> | guest218, something like this? https://www.schoolofhaskell.com/user/DanBurton/coroutines-for-streaming/part-3-stacking-interfaces |
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| 02:46:26 | <ski> | guest218 : just invoke a previously captured continuation |
| 02:46:35 | <ski> | hello Rishi1302 |
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| 02:54:24 | <guest218> | would ContT r (Reader b) a be useful? |
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| 02:54:39 | <koz_> | @unmtl ContT r (Reader b) a |
| 02:54:39 | <lambdabot> | (a -> b -> r) -> b -> r |
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| 02:55:25 | <guest218> | just like (a -> m b) -> m b; m ~ b-> |
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| 03:49:11 | <guest218> | in Haskell and Scheme, they both use last line as result to return, they don't have "return" like other languages like python to exit a function immediatly, but they have callCC to do something very like that "return", like yeild in python, right? |
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| 03:55:41 | <ski> | no |
| 03:56:38 | <ski> | i wouldn't say Haskell has `callCC'. it's not a feature of the language (unlike `call-with-current-continuation' in Scheme). it's just a library function |
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| 03:57:31 | <ski> | (and the similarity to `return' in some other languages, and to `yield' in Python, is fleeting, superficial, or (for the former) at best incomplete) |
| 03:57:38 | <swarmcollective> | I was not previously aware that Haskell supported resumable exceptions. This reminds me, vaguely, of the Microsoft Enterprise Library which provided mechanisms to defer the decision to rethrow an exception from the catch block to an external configuration. Resumable Exceptions seems more powerful. |
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| 03:58:09 | <guest218> | where is wrong? |
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| 03:59:09 | <_d0t> | swarmcollective: have you maybe looked at various effects implementations? Seems just what you describe here. |
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| 03:59:37 | <guest218> | lag... |
| 04:01:25 | <swarmcollective> | I just watched: "Building Haskell Programs with Fused Effects" by Patrick Thomson and read the intro on the fused-effects hackage page. |
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| 04:04:28 | <swarmcollective> | I have not dared to look at the implementation though; still attempting to wrap my head around the usage of fused-effects. |
| 04:05:04 | <guest218> | feud-effects... |
| 04:06:46 | <guest218> | ski: where it's wrong? |
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| 04:13:08 | <ephemient> | guest218: an expression doesn't have a "last line". a `do` block does, but the value of a do block is the whole block |
| 04:13:43 | <swarmcollective> | To clarify, Patrick Thomson used the example of the "fused effects" traversing a tree once, instead of each effect traversing the tree. The expressiveness comes from the effect monad providing functions and operators distinct to that effect? And the cost benefit is that GHC figures out the relevant monad so it is unnecessary to write code to dig through the monad stack to extract what you need? |
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| 04:19:30 | <guest218> | ephemient: what about change "last line" to |
| 04:19:35 | <guest218> | last expression? |
| 04:19:48 | <ephemient> | still no |
| 04:21:59 | <ephemient> | at least not in general |
| 04:22:40 | <ephemient> | with IO... it could be seen that way |
| 04:22:49 | <monochrom> | If "last expression" were a thing, what would be the "last expression" in 1+2? |
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| 04:23:13 | <monochrom> | More broadly, the whole idea of equating Haskell with Scheme is flawed. |
| 04:24:58 | <guest218> | but do Haskell and Scheme have "return"? |
| 04:25:26 | <ephemient> | Haskell has a function named "return" but it does not return from a function |
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| 04:26:42 | <magnuscake> | Hey peeps. Could someone help me understand this base case of a recursive function: |
| 04:26:52 | <guest218> | does haskell have a way to return from a function? |
| 04:27:06 | <magnuscake> | customFunc f (x:[]) = x |
| 04:27:43 | <_d0t> | guest218: no, not in the same sense as in C or related languages. |
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| 04:27:45 | <magnuscake> | I imagine this means we return the final element in a list once we recursive to the end |
| 04:27:47 | <ephemient> | guest218: the evaluation of a function is the right-hand-side expression matching the first left-hand-side pattern that matches, period. there's nothing to return from |
| 04:27:52 | <guest218> | magnuscake: it equal to head |
| 04:28:33 | <magnuscake> | Yeah but I reckon it is not the same as |
| 04:28:34 | <monochrom> | magnuscake: That depends on the other cases. Also, guest218 is wrong. As usual. |
| 04:28:53 | <magnuscake> | customFunc f (x:_) = x |
| 04:28:55 | <swarmcollective> | magnuscake, that could also be written as: `customFunc f [x] = x` (I believe) |
| 04:29:03 | <ephemient> | guest218: no, `head` works on any non-empty list. that base case operates on lists of size 1 only |
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| 04:29:29 | <magnuscake> | Maybe I'll just post the whole thing here? |
| 04:29:34 | <ephemient> | @where paste |
| 04:29:34 | <lambdabot> | Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at e.g. https://paste.tomsmeding.com |
| 04:30:01 | <ephemient> | please avoid long multi-line dumps directly into IRC |
| 04:30:52 | <magnuscake> | Sure. https://paste.tomsmeding.com/aYuSpbc0 |
| 04:31:14 | <magnuscake> | Basically I have diffculty understanding the difference between |
| 04:31:52 | <magnuscake> | myMaximumBy f (x:[]) and myMaximumBy f (x:_) |
| 04:32:08 | <ephemient> | [] is the empty list. _ is anything |
| 04:32:32 | <monochrom> | (x:_) is like (x:xs) but you don't plan to use xs so you don't bother giving it a name, you use the dont-care pattern instead. |
| 04:33:07 | <ephemient> | so [1] can be pattern matched by both (x:[]) and (x:_), but [1, 2, 3] can only be matched by (x:_), not (x:[]) |
| 04:33:32 | <magnuscake> | Ok |
| 04:33:48 | <magnuscake> | So this case, once the list has been exhausted, right? |
| 04:34:03 | <ephemient> | well, almost exhausted - it still has one element |
| 04:34:37 | <ephemient> | like the standard `maximumBy` function, it's a partial function and fails on an empty list |
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| 04:35:33 | <ephemient> | > maximumBy compare [] |
| 04:35:34 | <lambdabot> | *Exception: Prelude.foldl1: empty list |
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| 04:35:49 | <magnuscake> | Yeah that makes sense now. Thank ephemient |
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| 04:35:52 | <magnuscake> | :) |
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| 04:38:16 | <monochrom> | I wonder if "once/until the list has one element left" makes any sense at all. Some people say that to mean "I imagine a mutable list variable, I keep changing it, it keeps getting shorter". |
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| 04:38:49 | <monochrom> | But since this code has no mutable list variable, it is unwise to use that model. Especially for this example. |
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| 04:39:25 | <ephemient> | well, magnuscake already left... |
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| 04:39:58 | <monochrom> | myMaximumBy cmp [1,2,3] works by comparing 1 with myMaximumBy [2,3]. There is no "the" "changing" list. There are two lists, [1,2,3] and [2,3]. |
| 04:40:04 | <monochrom> | Darn. |
| 04:40:12 | <ephemient> | but yeah, after destructuring... the original structure is still there |
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| 04:40:19 | <ephemient> | dunno if they got that or not |
| 04:40:32 | <ephemient> | if they ever show up again we might find out |
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| 04:55:51 | <kenran> | (Might be more fitting to #nixos, but I don't know yet): If I need to use GHC 8.8.4 instead of the current one in nixpkgs-unstable in a project, I set my haskellPackages to haskell.packages.ghc884. Now I that leads to dependency version conflicts, I usually could fix them by either jailbreaking packages or using newer versions. But now I'm ending up with a conflict on an exact base version. Do you know |
| 04:55:57 | <kenran> | what to do? |
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| 04:57:58 | <monochrom> | exact base version is tied to exact GHC version. |
| 04:58:52 | <monochrom> | I would jailbreak or modify other packages to convince them to accept the base I want because it means the GHC I want. |
| 04:59:29 | <ephemient> | I'm not familiar with Nix, but don't they effectively use Stackage curation? if there's some way to get it to use an older snapshot you wouldn't have to muck around with those versions |
| 04:59:34 | <monochrom> | But I don't use nix, I use cabal directly, that's why I have better access to that freedom. |
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| 05:00:28 | <kenran> | monochrom: the build is currently running, so I can't check yet what exact package it was again (different machine), but I think it was singletons, and it failed to build with that base version. So I think a good next step would be to try and use a slight older singletons version more in line with GHC? |
| 05:01:41 | <kenran> | monochrom: I normally would use the newer cabal, too, but in this project we had to eventuell use nix due to lots of forks being used that were itself heavily reliant on nix, and lots of non-Haskell dependencies :( I love working with "just cabal |
| 05:02:13 | <ephemient> | https://www.stackage.org/lts-16.31 snapshot with GHC 8.8.4. there's things stackage isn't great at, but it is useful as a set of packages that all build together |
| 05:02:51 | <kenran> | ephemient: Yes they do, I think, but I'm not sure if that's true in the same way for when you change the GHC version. It's the first time I have to. |
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| 05:03:04 | <ephemient> | different snapshots have different GHC versions |
| 05:03:22 | <ephemient> | change the snapshot to change the GHC version |
| 05:03:29 | <ephemient> | leaves you stuck with older libraries, for better or for worse |
| 05:03:46 | <kenran> | On stackage you mean, right? I mean it might not be the same with nixpkgs though in that regard. |
| 05:03:51 | <ephemient> | or, use Cabal directly and let it resolve everything |
| 05:04:07 | <ephemient> | https://github.com/input-output-hk/haskell.nix/blob/master/snapshots.nix looks like there is some way to use snapshots, although I really don't understand Nix |
| 05:04:31 | <kenran> | And I really have to move forward with nixpkgs (and thus the hackage versions) because of idiotic open source clearing restrictions from a customer... |
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| 05:05:02 | <kenran> | ephemient: unfortunately haskell.nix is a whole different thing again :) |
| 05:05:12 | <kenran> | although the name suggests otherwise |
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| 05:05:41 | <ephemient> | sounds like you're constrained to specifying the versions yourself, then |
| 05:05:54 | <kenran> | ephemient: yes it sounds like it now |
| 05:05:56 | <kenran> | thanks you two! |
| 05:06:11 | <ephemient> | good luck and have "fun" |
| 05:06:34 | <kenran> | Normally upgrading GHC is no big deal, but we're using an experimental repo which in turn contains a GHC plugin which doesn't yet build with 8.10 >< |
| 05:06:54 | <kenran> | So there's restrictions on both "sides", which really sucks |
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| 08:23:43 | <gentauro> | 05:59 < ephemient> I'm not familiar with Nix, but don't they effectively use Stackage curation? if there's some way to get it to use an older snapshot |
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| 08:24:03 | <gentauro> | ephemient: I'm using this approach (just point to a commit tag on GH) -> https://old.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/ljqbqc/help_compiling_x11_and_x11xtf_package_for_xmonad/gngj4r9/ |
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| 09:17:32 | <dminuoso> | ephemient: Do you understand how cabal v2-build works? |
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| 11:09:57 | <new_haskeller> | % readFile "/proc/self/environ" |
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| 11:16:11 | <boxscape> | % type F :: Bool -> *; type family F x where F True = String; F False = Maybe Int |
| 11:16:12 | <yahb> | boxscape: |
| 11:16:16 | <boxscape> | % let g :: String :~: F b -> Bool; g Refl = True |
| 11:16:17 | <yahb> | boxscape: |
| 11:16:25 | <boxscape> | % type G :: String :~: F b -> Bool; type family G p where G Refl = True |
| 11:16:25 | <yahb> | boxscape: ; <interactive>:7:59: error:; * Couldn't match kind: F b0; with: [Char]; Expected kind `String :~: F b0', but `Refl' has kind `String :~: String'; The type variable `b0' is ambiguous; * In the first argument of `G', namely `Refl'; In the type family declaration for `G' |
| 11:16:29 | <boxscape> | Interesting difference |
| 11:16:39 | <boxscape> | the term level function works, but the corresponding type family doesn't |
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| 11:24:37 | <boxscape> | not really sure why... |
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| 11:49:39 | <new_haskeller> | Curiously I seem to have trouble using 'group' in the most basic way https://paste.tomsmeding.com/gaJzHolc |
| 11:50:34 | <tomsmeding> | new_haskeller: import Data.List |
| 11:51:04 | <new_haskeller> | thanks |
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| 11:51:13 | <tomsmeding> | new_haskeller: was there something specific that made you suspect you could use 'group' without that import? |
| 11:51:59 | <new_haskeller> | I assumed 'group' would be included in Prelude |
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| 11:52:48 | <tomsmeding> | it might have been in the past, but now, at least, it isn't :) |
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| 12:25:03 | <ski> | % type F :: Bool -> Type; type family F x = y | y -> x where F True = String; F False = Maybe Int |
| 12:25:04 | <yahb> | ski: |
| 12:25:06 | <ski> | % let g :: String :~: F b -> Bool; g Refl = True |
| 12:25:07 | <yahb> | ski: |
| 12:25:08 | <ski> | % type G :: String :~: F b -> Bool; type family G p where G Refl = True |
| 12:25:09 | <yahb> | ski: |
| 12:25:16 | <ski> | boxscape ^ |
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| 12:26:10 | <boxscape> | ski: hmm why is injectivity not necessary for the term-level function? |
| 12:26:41 | <boxscape> | (injectivity of F, that is) |
| 12:27:46 | <ski> | i guess `g' might be accepted, due to `AllowAmbiguousTypes', which perhaps doesn't apply to `G' ? |
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| 12:31:06 | <boxscape> | ski: Ah yes that might be it |
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| 12:33:18 | <boxscape> | % type G :: String :~: F b -> Bool; type family G p where G @True Refl = True -- ski: turns out the non-injective version of F works if you write this |
| 12:33:19 | <yahb> | boxscape: |
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| 12:33:54 | <ski> | oh |
| 12:34:37 | <ski> | but that's not the same thing |
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| 12:35:57 | <boxscape> | ski: hm, but if the invisible parameter is False, then the Equality can never be true, right? So it could never be called with @False Refl |
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| 12:36:54 | <boxscape> | s/can never be true/can never hold |
| 12:37:02 | <ski> | yes, but the point of GADT matching would be to *discover* that `b = True', after the match on `Refl'. not to allow that defining equation to match, only if you already know `b = True' |
| 12:37:18 | <boxscape> | ah, I see |
| 12:37:26 | <ski> | s/not to/rather than to/ |
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| 12:38:15 | <ski> | (or, at least to discover that `F b = String', i suppose) |
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| 12:42:03 | <boxscape> | ski if the ambiguous type is a problem, I suppose it should be fixable by adding a Proxy parameter? (That makes the term-level version work without AllowAmbiguousTypes) I can't make it work that way with the type family |
| 12:42:13 | <boxscape> | (for non-injective F) |
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| 13:23:55 | <geekosaur> | deebo, it's the menu applet. right click it, keyboard shortcuts pane, main button, click the "Keyboard shortcut" button, press backspace |
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| 13:24:45 | <geekosaur> | @tell deebo it's the menu applet. right click it, keyboard shortcuts pane, main button, click the "Keyboard shortcut" button, press backspace |
| 13:24:45 | <lambdabot> | Consider it noted. |
| 13:27:14 | <geekosaur> | missed a step there, sigh |
| 13:27:28 | <geekosaur> | should update the wiki except who knows how long it'll continue to exist |
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| 13:32:54 | <NieDzejkob> | is it possible to create a singleton for a type-level integer such that it's like data Nat = Z | S Nat at the type level, but something relatively efficient at runtime? |
| 13:33:55 | <geekosaur> | siiiigh, wrong channel again |
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| 13:35:39 | <NieDzejkob> | me? |
| 13:35:55 | <geekosaur> | no, me |
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| 13:38:03 | <merijn> | NieDzejkob: Eh, your question is malformed :p |
| 13:38:03 | <lortabac> | NieDzejkob: you can convert it to a GHC.TypeNats.Nat before demoting and back to your Nat before promoting |
| 13:38:27 | <merijn> | NieDzejkob: GHC does type erasure, so at runtime your Nat type doesn't even exist at the type level |
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| 13:40:18 | <NieDzejkob> | I need something like SNat n, though, where the value is available in both ways |
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| 13:41:18 | <lortabac> | NieDzejkob: if you need to work with SNat all the time, then I don't think it is possible |
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| 13:50:02 | tomsmeding | rebuilds the world to install HLS for a new ghc version 🎶 |
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| 13:50:35 | <hpc> | carl sagan would be proud |
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| 13:56:04 | <tomsmeding> | In Data.Proxy, is there a reason why KProxy exists? Is Proxy itself less flexible in certain cases? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.14.1.0/docs/Data-Proxy.html#t:KProxy |
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| 14:00:42 | dunj4 | is now known as dunj3 |
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| 14:01:14 | <merijn> | tomsmeding: DataKinds wasn't a thing in the past? :p |
| 14:01:30 | <geekosaur> | or TypeInType maybe |
| 14:01:40 | <tomsmeding> | merijn: sure, but KProxy is just a normal data type just like Proxy |
| 14:01:43 | <boxscape> | tomsmeding: from https://repository.brynmawr.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1000&context=compsci_pubs : We make use here of the typeKProxy, which when promoted,is a type-level proxy for a kind argument. Its definition restricts its type parameter a to be of kind?so that the type is promotable;GHC does not promote poly-kinded datatypes. |
| 14:01:52 | <boxscape> | the ? should be a * |
| 14:02:11 | <tomsmeding> | "GHC does not promote poly-kinded datatypes." -- I see |
| 14:02:17 | <boxscape> | (page 7) |
| 14:02:28 | <boxscape> | I'm not sure if that's true anymore though? |
| 14:02:44 | <tomsmeding> | I'm fairly sure it's not :p |
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| 14:03:14 | <tomsmeding> | but that explains its provenance, thanks :) |
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| 14:09:17 | <boxscape> | interestingly the corresponding class for which they used KProxy in the paper now uses neither Proxy nor KProxy in singletons https://hackage.haskell.org/package/singletons-2.7/docs/src/Data.Singletons.Prelude.Eq.html#PEq |
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| 14:20:18 | <tomsmeding> | I guess TypeApplications became available afterwards? |
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| 14:20:35 | <tomsmeding> | and covered enough that the class didn't need a proxy anymore |
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| 14:26:14 | <boxscape> | that sounds like a reasonable guess |
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| 14:57:50 | <hyperisco> | I have xs :: [IO ()] and I would like to run them concurrently, like runConcurrently :: [IO ()] -> IO () |
| 14:57:57 | <hyperisco> | what is a convenient way to do that? |
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| 15:00:29 | <opqdonut> | hyperisco: `mapM_ forkIO` if you're not interested in the results |
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| 15:00:35 | <opqdonut> | :t mapM_ forkIO |
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| 15:00:37 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 15:00:37 | <lambdabot> | Variable not in scope: forkIO :: a -> m b0 |
| 15:00:48 | <opqdonut> | oh right I guess Control.Concurrent is hidden in lambdabot |
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| 15:04:02 | <hyperisco> | oh okay, I thought I would need to do something special with that low level library |
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| 15:04:21 | <hyperisco> | so the child threads are going to keep my program running until they terminate? |
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| 15:12:40 | <hyperisco> | yeah, the child threads are killed, which is not what I want, and it requires extra work to fix that |
| 15:12:43 | <hyperisco> | is there anything simpler? |
| 15:12:47 | <swarmcollective> | hyperisco, you may want to use Semaphore or something similar, to allow your child threads to let the main thread know when they have completed. |
| 15:13:16 | <swarmcollective> | The main thread can wait for the Semaphore before ending. |
| 15:14:32 | <tomsmeding> | hyperisco: this one? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/async-2.2.3/docs/Control-Concurrent-Async.html#v:mapConcurrently |
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| 15:15:26 | <tomsmeding> | it's not too hard to write something similar without additional dependencies, but in case you explicitly want a ready-made solution |
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| 15:18:22 | <hyperisco> | guess I just copy the code in the docs |
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| 15:19:35 | <tomsmeding> | it seems that the version from 'async' does have some robustness built-in in the face of exceptions and such |
| 15:19:54 | <tomsmeding> | depends on whether you need that :) |
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| 15:22:53 | <swarmcollective> | Control.Concurrent.Async looks great. tomsmeding, thank you. |
| 15:23:35 | mnrmnaugh | is now known as awk |
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| 15:28:00 | <hyperisco> | I am using the Haskell plugin for VSCode. Any idea how I can disable the "avoid lambda" blue underlines? |
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| 15:29:03 | <sm[m]> | hyperisco: maybe they come from hlint ? So a hlint config file ? |
| 15:29:51 | <sm[m]> | (I don't remember a blue underline, but maybe that's just our themes) |
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| 15:32:21 | <hyperisco> | doesn't say where to put the file https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hlint-1.7/src/hlint.htm#customization |
| 15:32:23 | <hyperisco> | any ideas? |
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| 15:32:37 | <hyperisco> | the pragmas seem to be causing compiler errors |
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| 15:44:20 | <hseg> | why is canonSign not in scope in the view pattern here http://ix.io/2PRD ? |
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| 15:48:38 | <dolio> | hseg: LHS pattern scoping is prior to where. |
| 15:48:57 | <hseg> | :( so i need to move it out to global scope? |
| 15:49:02 | <hseg> | oh well |
| 15:49:20 | <dolio> | You could move it into the guard, which is after where. |
| 15:49:28 | <dolio> | Move the match, that is. |
| 15:49:56 | <tomsmeding> | you can use LHS-bound names in a 'where' block, so being able to use 'where'-bound things in a view pattern would create a circular dependency |
| 15:50:05 | <hseg> | fair |
| 15:50:17 | <dolio> | Yeah, if it were somehow interleaved that'd be very hard to figure out. |
| 15:50:21 | <hseg> | iirc you can have differing where blocks per match, no? |
| 15:50:36 | <dolio> | Yeah. |
| 15:51:30 | <hseg> | so that's a further reason to disallow what i wanted -- no way of knowing which wheres are in scope a prior |
| 15:51:34 | <hseg> | *priori |
| 15:52:07 | <hseg> | ofc, you could have a function-global where, but that's a bit silly for such a niche usecase |
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| 15:55:36 | <dolio> | hseg: Yeah, in that situation I'd probably try to see if it could be written nicely with pattern guards. |
| 15:55:45 | <dolio> | So that a where could scope over them all. |
| 15:56:51 | <dolio> | Although a top level function is also not really a problem unless you don't have an export list. |
| 15:57:31 | <hseg> | fair |
| 15:57:50 | <hseg> | in any case, the function posted is mostly for testing purposes, no reason to get fancy |
| 15:57:58 | <hseg> | note, too, the partial matches |
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| 16:19:59 | <raehik> | O |
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| 16:20:31 | <raehik> | whoops - I'm trying to understand rank N types in Haskell and have a question |
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| 16:21:14 | <raehik> | my understanding is that Haskell does "full type erasure", meaning no types at runtime (likely a simplification, if even true, but) |
| 16:21:48 | <dolio> | It's not a simplification. |
| 16:22:35 | <raehik> | in something like `f :: (forall a. a -> Bool) -> (Bool, Bool)`, f takes a polymorphic function |
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| 16:22:48 | <raehik> | how does that look at runtime? |
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| 16:24:04 | <kuribas> | The compiler could pass a void pointer |
| 16:24:35 | <kuribas> | it's an implementation detail, it depends on how values are represented internally. |
| 16:25:02 | <dolio> | How does which part look? |
| 16:26:05 | <raehik> | what does that function do at runtime, perhaps |
| 16:26:21 | <dolio> | Well, you haven't told us the implementation of `f`. :) |
| 16:27:11 | <raehik> | % f :: (forall a. a -> Bool) -> (Bool, Bool) |
| 16:27:12 | <yahb> | raehik: ; <interactive>:21:1: error: Variable not in scope: f |
| 16:27:33 | <raehik> | ah, I do not know the syntax I need. oh well |
| 16:27:58 | <raehik> | say `f g = (g 1, g 'a')` (taken from a blog post) |
| 16:28:25 | hseg_ | is now known as hseg |
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| 16:28:49 | <dolio> | Okay, well, at runtime, it does pretty much exactly what that says. `f` takes a function `g` and calls it with `1` and `'a'`, collecting them in a tuple. |
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| 16:30:33 | <kuribas> | g also cannot inspect its first value, so it doesn't need to know the type. |
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| 16:31:12 | <raehik> | oh yeah, maybe I was confusing myself |
| 16:31:21 | <kuribas> | if g takes a typeclass constraint however, then it can inspect it. That's implemented by passing a typeclass dictionary. |
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| 16:32:36 | <raehik> | dolio, kuribas thanks, bit clearer on that now |
| 16:32:56 | <hseg> | so unfortunate that the semigroup-valued foldable functions don't return Maybe instead of erroring out |
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| 16:33:39 | <kuribas> | hseg: you can turn any semigroup into a monoid by wrapping in Maybe |
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| 16:33:52 | <kuribas> | (thanks to merijn for pointing that out) |
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| 16:34:21 | <hseg> | sure. but it's annoying to have to do it, and it is a surprising semantic inaccuracy |
| 16:34:31 | <kuribas> | hseg: what would you want then? |
| 16:34:34 | <hseg> | e.g. would've expected maximum :: f a -> Maybe a |
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| 16:34:50 | <kuribas> | :t maximum |
| 16:34:51 | <lambdabot> | (Foldable t, Ord a) => t a -> a |
| 16:35:02 | <hseg> | with possibly a FoldableNE for known-nonempty structures |
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| 16:35:19 | <hseg> | which would have maximum :: t a - >a |
| 16:35:21 | <kuribas> | or (Foldable t, Bounded a, Ord a) => t a -> a |
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| 16:35:53 | <kuribas> | maximum = foldl' max maxBound |
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| 16:36:08 | <hseg> | sure, but that's a blunt way of assuming monoids |
| 16:36:44 | <kuribas> | I can only guess maximum was there before total functions where considered important. |
| 16:36:56 | <hseg> | yup. historical reasons, as usual |
| 16:37:44 | <hseg> | though afaict it's more that semigroups were introduced late in haskell's history |
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| 16:40:51 | <hseg> | hrm. golfing exercise, is it possible to pull out sumTruncs from the case branches in http://ix.io/2PSe ? |
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| 16:41:17 | <hseg> | i guess i *could* explicitly define sumTruncs [] = 1 |
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| 16:41:23 | <hseg> | but that's pretty ugly |
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| 16:42:22 | <hseg> | dammit, gtg. sorry |
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| 16:53:21 | <tomsmeding> | hseg: to be able to pull sumTruncs out, you probably first have to know what happens for length >= 4 :p |
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| 17:40:22 | <ephemient> | gentauro dminuoso: yes and not relevant to me. it was only to help kenran who was forced to use some specific Nix build setup |
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| 17:44:40 | <shapr> | I still haven't really tried haskell.nix |
| 17:45:13 | <shapr> | so far this handles everything I need https://github.com/utdemir/hs-nix-template/ |
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| 19:55:50 | <tomjaguarpaw> | GHC 8.10 has -fmax-pmcheck-models where < 8.10 had -fmax-pmcheck-iterations. If I have -Werror set then the latter triggers a build failure on 8.10. -Wwarn=deprecations doesn't seem to avert that. Is there anyway of having -Werror set and using -fmax-pmcheck-iterations in a way that works on 8.6 and 8.10? |
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| 19:59:26 | <chisui> | @tomjaguarpaw what build system are you using? |
| 19:59:26 | <lambdabot> | Unknown command, try @list |
| 19:59:31 | <tomjaguarpaw> | cabal |
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| 20:02:40 | <chisui> | tomjaguarpaw: you can use CPP macros inside of cabal project files if I'm not mistaken |
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| 20:03:47 | <geekosaur> | this wouldn't be a cpp macro, it'd be a conditional |
| 20:04:01 | <geekosaur> | if impl(ghc < 8.10) |
| 20:04:06 | <geekosaur> | or similar |
| 20:04:14 | <tomsmeding> | (docs: https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/latest/cabal-package.html#conditions ) |
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| 20:08:19 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Aha, that could be useful, thanks! |
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| 20:11:37 | <tomsmeding> | tomjaguarpaw: are you using -Werror for CI? Just curious, asking as a person who hates -Werror with a passion for non-CI purposes :p |
| 20:12:05 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Yes, and as a fellow Tom, I am with you on that! |
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| 20:12:43 | <tomsmeding> | :D |
| 20:13:19 | tomsmeding | remembers GoogleTest |
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| 20:13:43 | tomjaguarpaw | doesn't |
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| 20:15:25 | <tomsmeding> | GoogleTest is a C++ library that stubbornly turns on -Werror in release versions, ensuring that everyone who tries to use almost the latest version of the library on an up-to-date system will run into non-buildable stuff |
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| 20:17:04 | <monochrom> | Nice, if it doesn't build, there is no further CPU or RAM or disk I/O to spend on further testing. This cuts costs. >:) |
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| 20:17:52 | <tomjaguarpaw> | If it is a Haskell program then it is pure, so you can just repeat the result each time without running anything! |
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| 20:18:29 | <mananamenos> | hi, I can't find any function similar to `permutations` from Data.List, but without taking into account the order [1,2] would be the same as [2,1]. |
| 20:19:02 | <tomsmeding> | mananamenos: can you give an example of what that function would return on a simple input? |
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| 20:22:12 | <tomjaguarpaw> | I guess it's this combinations n = \case { [] -> if n == 0 then [[]] else []; x:xs -> fmap (x:) (combinations (n-1) xs) ++ combinations n xs } |
| 20:22:35 | <mananamenos> | tomsmeding, it's n!/(k!(n-k)!) formula |
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| 20:22:47 | <tomjaguarpaw> | combinations 3 [1..4] = [[1,2,3],[1,2,4],[1,3,4],[2,3,4]] |
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| 20:23:18 | <tomsmeding> | then, yes what tomjaguarpaw gave :p |
| 20:23:43 | <mananamenos> | so there's nothing built then, i see |
| 20:23:49 | <mananamenos> | thank you |
| 20:23:57 | <mananamenos> | *built in |
| 20:24:32 | <tomjaguarpaw> | I haven't seen one built in. Arguably there should be. |
| 20:24:52 | <tomjaguarpaw> | It's actually easier to write than permutations. |
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| 20:26:22 | <ski> | > (`evalStateT` "abcd") (replicateM 3 (StateT (\xs0 -> [(x,xs) | x:xs <- tails xs0]))) |
| 20:26:23 | <lambdabot> | ["abc","abd","acd","bcd"] |
| 20:26:57 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Oooh |
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| 20:27:48 | <monochrom> | subsequences |
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| 20:28:22 | <tomsmeding> | if you don't care about complexity, that is |
| 20:28:39 | <tomsmeding> | > filter ((== 3) . length) (subsequences [1..4]) |
| 20:28:40 | <lambdabot> | [[1,2,3],[1,2,4],[1,3,4],[2,3,4]] |
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| 20:29:44 | <mananamenos> | nice and simple :) |
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| 20:31:36 | ski | once wrote it in C, as a `for'-loop, with one `goto' out from the body, and one `goto' back inside it |
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| 20:40:49 | <tomsmeding> | tomjaguarpaw's version is terribly inefficient though, almost as slow as the version with 'subsequences' :p |
| 20:41:31 | <tomsmeding> | faster version that actually completes in O(length ^ n): |
| 20:41:33 | <tomsmeding> | combinations 0 _ = [[]] ; combinations _ [] = [] ; combinations n (x:xs) = map (x:) (combinations (n-1) xs) ++ combinations n xs |
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| 20:42:04 | <tomsmeding> | the 'subsequences' one takes O(2 ^ length) time :p |
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| 20:42:57 | <tomsmeding> | exercise to the reader: find out why my version of 'combinations' is quite a bit faster than tomjaguarpaw's version if n < length |
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| 20:46:09 | <monochrom> | That's very strange. It's the same logic, especially the same early abort. |
| 20:46:48 | <tomsmeding> | what happens if you call 'combinations 0 [1,2,3]'? |
| 20:47:18 | <monochrom> | OK I see. |
| 20:47:39 | <tomsmeding> | :) |
| 20:47:45 | <tomsmeding> | it took me quite a while :p |
| 20:48:13 | <mananamenos> | :) |
| 20:49:09 | <dolio> | Or `combinations 0 (1:undefined)` |
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| 20:49:50 | <tomsmeding> | or add a check that asserts n is never negative, and observe it to fail :p |
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| 23:15:51 | <monochrom> | http://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/learn-sources.html new version. Also, the first time I publish with pandoc. |
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| 23:28:33 | <slack1256> | If you use haskell for scripting, how do you manage libraries that are required by these scripts? |
| 23:28:56 | <slack1256> | I don't want to create a folder, run `cabal init` and declare a .cabal file for a single executable file. |
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| 23:30:50 | <sclv> | you can either have a global env (or a local env that all the scripts refer to) or if you're using cabal to run files _as_ scripts (with the shebang sugar) you can pass build-depends as part of that |
| 23:31:25 | <sclv> | search "running script files" here https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.4/cabal-commands.html |
| 23:31:35 | <Axman6> | stack has specific support for haskell scripts which include dependencies |
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| 23:31:53 | <merijn> | slack1256: Also, you can share 1 dir and cabal file with many executables :p |
| 23:31:58 | <merijn> | Axman6: So does cabal-install |
| 23:32:00 | <sclv> | Axman6: so does cabal! see the link I just posted |
| 23:32:27 | <Axman6> | https://docs.haskellstack.org/en/stable/GUIDE/#script-interpreter |
| 23:32:34 | <sclv> | who cares |
| 23:32:37 | <sclv> | we know this |
| 23:32:39 | <monochrom> | https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.4/cabal-commands.html#cabal-v2-run has a "#!/usr/bin/env cabal" feature. |
| 23:32:52 | <Axman6> | is that new? |
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| 23:33:05 | <sclv> | well its maybe 2 years old now? |
| 23:33:08 | <sclv> | idk how "new" new is |
| 23:33:41 | <slack1256> | That `cabal v2-run` syntax looks neat. |
| 23:33:46 | <Axman6> | woah, inline cabal config, this feels weird |
| 23:34:03 | <sclv> | yeah, you can set the executable bit and just run it with ./myfile.hs |
| 23:34:11 | <monochrom> | If you find yourself doing this recurringly, "cabal install --lib" can install libraries in a "global" sense that you can just use runghc again. But it will take a while to understand this "ghc environment" thing. |
| 23:34:29 | <sclv> | right, if you don't manage the env right that you install with --lib then you can confuse yourself |
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| 23:35:25 | <slack1256> | Yeah, I need to understand these ghc environments. I don't know what the deal is with them after the v2-* family of commands landed. |
| 23:35:57 | <slack1256> | It used to be that `cabal install lens` installed on you `$home/.cabal` and it could be picked up by ghc. |
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| 23:36:15 | <sclv> | its fine to steer clear of them and use other mechanisms for now |
| 23:36:28 | <sclv> | i know how they work and i still avoid them, since my workflows don't call for it |
| 23:40:15 | <slack1256> | Mmm, well I use nix so I can avoid them. But running nix-shell scripts that run a haskell script take some seconds on my machine. |
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| 23:41:10 | <monochrom> | To be sure, "cabal run" also has its overhead. |
| 23:42:12 | <monochrom> | and the "Up to date" message that goes to stdout can hurt if you're piping stdout to another program that doesn't anticipate this extra message. |
| 23:42:25 | <sclv> | i imagine less than booting up a whole nix environment but what do i know |
| 23:42:37 | <sclv> | in my experience with a lot of haskell packages around, nix can drag in computing stuff |
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| 23:43:45 | <edwardk> | the Up to date message actually is the reason why I can't bring myself to use the cabal run story |
| 23:43:47 | <monochrom> | To be sure again, if you go the "cabal install --lib" route, runghc also has a "Loaded package environment from ..." message to stderr, which you may or may not find confusing if you log stderr to a log file. |
| 23:44:23 | <edwardk> | i wanted to launch a language server protocol implementation with it |
| 23:44:25 | <monochrom> | "The only way to win is to flip the power switch." |
| 23:44:37 | <edwardk> | but i need to know what exactly is going to stdout |
| 23:44:46 | <monochrom> | (Hey why didn't anyone think of that in the War Games movie? >:) ) |
| 23:44:51 | <sclv> | that's the sort of thing you'd think we could add a flag for if its enough of a problem |
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| 23:45:46 | <sclv> | monochrom: maybe it would have gone all HAL on 'em |
| 23:45:55 | <sclv> | and cut off their oxygen |
| 23:46:44 | <sclv> | note to self: remove my AI's connection to oxygen subsystems TODO |
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All times are in UTC on 2021-02-18.