Logs on 2021-02-23 (freenode/#haskell)
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| 02:09:19 | <d34df00d> | Hi! |
| 02:09:30 | <d34df00d> | I'm playing around with repa, and, in particular, I have the following line: |
| 02:09:51 | <d34df00d> | ps = computeP $ R.fromFunction dims $ \(_ :. k :. b) -> sum [ imgComplex' R.! (Z :. b :. a) * exps R.! (Z :. k :. a) | a <- [0 .. resultSize - 1] ] |
| 02:10:13 | <d34df00d> | The point is that it multiplies a row of one matrix with a row of a another matrix. |
| 02:10:35 | <d34df00d> | I noticed repa has `slice`, so I rewrote the code in the following way, expecting it to be faster: |
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| 02:10:37 | <d34df00d> | ps = computeP $ R.fromFunction dims $ \(_ :. k :. b) -> R.sumAllS $ R.slice imgComplex' (R.Any :. b :. R.All) *^ R.slice exps (R.Any :. k :. R.All) |
| 02:10:59 | <d34df00d> | Because, well, intent communicated more directly, more opportunities for the optimizer to optimize this into something super-SIMD-friendly, etc. |
| 02:11:07 | <d34df00d> | But this last version is 8 times slower. Why? |
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| 02:12:25 | <d34df00d> | And, in any event, is there a more optimal way to express what I'm trying to do here? |
| 02:14:09 | <slack1256> | d34df00d: I don't know much about repa. But maybe if you post your code on a pastebin it will be clearer so maybe someone can answer. |
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| 02:14:57 | <d34df00d> | Sure, although I guess it has too much extra details: |
| 02:15:12 | <d34df00d> | https://bpa.st/OX4AW |
| 02:15:37 | <d34df00d> | That's what I had initially. `ps` is what I'm trying to change as above. |
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| 02:30:28 | <chibi> | /clear |
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| 04:30:06 | <clmg> | Why is Haskell better than OCaml? |
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| 04:49:52 | <dsal> | That's such a good question, but clmg left before we could even discuss it. |
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| 04:52:09 | <d34df00d> | Why is MUMPS better than ABAP? |
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| 05:41:06 | <Axman6> | I examined a patent on ABAP once. It gave a whole new respect for people who can cope with working for/on SAP |
| 05:44:09 | <d34df00d> | I actually enjoyed reimplementing a compiler for a DSL produced by SAP. |
| 05:44:36 | <d34df00d> | But I think it was actually designed by a company they acquired, which might explain the positive emotions. |
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| 05:45:55 | <Axman6> | heh |
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| 06:25:07 | <siraben> | what is mumps? the disease? |
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| 06:37:34 | <c_wraith> | it's also a programming lanugage |
| 06:37:51 | <c_wraith> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUMPS |
| 06:39:53 | <c_wraith> | if you read thedailywtf, they sometimes describe the programming language as worse than the disease |
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| 09:22:00 | <DigitalKiwi> | do you think the person that describes it like that has both had the disease and used the language? or even one of those? |
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| 09:58:30 | <nshepperd> | at least you can be vaccinated against the disease |
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| 10:09:09 | <Mrbuck> | Haskell vs SML whose compiler performance is better? SML most widelyused in universities than haskell why? |
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| 10:24:08 | <dminuoso> | Compiler performance is tough to compare because the languages enjoy different feature sets and programming styles. |
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| 10:25:06 | <dminuoso> | That is, compiler performance of compilers for different languages. |
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| 10:26:06 | <Mrbuck> | dminuoso: ok |
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| 10:30:24 | <merijn> | Mrbuck: SML predates Haskell by 7 years and ML predates Haskell by 17 years, so "sheer entropy" is an explanation. I'm also not convinced SML is actually more widely used in universities, tbh |
| 10:31:55 | <Mrbuck> | merijn: ok |
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| 10:37:26 | <kuribas> | ocaml seems to be a more french thing... |
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| 11:00:35 | <zmagii> | Was the Jane Street intern that got them to use OCaml French? |
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| 11:05:46 | <kuribas> | Rue de Jeanne? |
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| 11:07:58 | <Uniaika> | zmagii: apparently it was Yaron Minsky |
| 11:08:21 | <Uniaika> | > Yaron Minsky joined Jane Street back in 2002, and claims the dubious honor of having convinced the firm to start using OCaml. |
| 11:08:23 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:38: error: <hint>:1:38: error: parse error on input ‘in’ |
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| 11:16:00 | <gentauro> | Uniaika: I actually said to Simon Marlow, that if it was him who joined Jane Street, they would probably be using Haskell now. And the same with FB, if it was Yaron, they might have gone with OCaml instead of Haskell. It's the "clever" people that pave the way ;) |
| 11:16:16 | <edwardk> | seems to have worked out pretty well for them |
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| 11:26:35 | <zmagii> | Where does FB use Haskell? |
| 11:26:49 | <siraben> | merijn: if universities each an ML language it's usually Haskell or OCaml |
| 11:26:54 | <siraben> | s/each/teach |
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| 11:27:13 | <siraben> | But, it might as well be SML instead of OCaml, heh. |
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| 11:34:20 | <zmagii> | Is it this https://github.com/facebook/Haxl? |
| 11:35:36 | <dminuoso> | gentauro: Facebook uses OCaml too. |
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| 11:36:08 | <dminuoso> | (e.g. their Hack or flow type is implemented with it= |
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| 11:38:05 | <gentauro> | dminuoso: s/OCaml/ReasonML/ :) |
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| 11:38:31 | <gentauro> | 12:16 < edwardk> seems to have worked out pretty well for them |
| 11:38:33 | <gentauro> | I agree :) |
| 11:39:08 | <edwardk> | zmagii: facebook uses haskell to run their spam detection software Sigma, which is written in haxl. |
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| 11:40:00 | <gentauro> | zmagii: `Slides: Haskell in the datacentre (Copenhagen April 2019)` -> https://simonmar.github.io/pages/talks.html |
| 11:40:30 | <edwardk> | every post made to facebook gets processed by a Haskell EDSL that looks and judges if it is spam. (In a couple of stages to quickly accept/reject obvious stuff, etc.) |
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| 16:41:46 | <dmwit> | The Wikipedia page for MUMPS says this: "A key feature of the MUMPS language is its integrated database, allowing direct, high-speed read-write access to permanent disk storage, with similar speed of languages accessing temporary random access memory." |
| 16:41:50 | <dmwit> | X Doubt |
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| 16:43:53 | <joseph2> | Sounds sort of like Foxpro. |
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| 16:45:35 | <monochrom> | [factcheck needed] |
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| 16:46:10 | <dolio> | Speed of memory vs. disk is definitely a language feature. |
| 16:46:43 | <dolio> | The C standard should just say that disk is just as fast as RAM. |
| 16:47:10 | joseph2 | is now known as swarmcollective |
| 16:47:31 | <monochrom> | I think the C standard refrains from assuming that a disk exists. |
| 16:47:42 | <monochrom> | Now, the Haskell Report, on the other hand... |
| 16:47:42 | <dolio> | Big mistake, obviously. |
| 16:47:59 | <dolio> | If you don't assume it exists, you can't say it's super fast. |
| 16:48:03 | <pjb> | monochrom: in part. There's still stdio.h |
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| 16:49:27 | <int-e> | ... int read(int head, int track, int sector, void buf[512]) ... |
| 16:50:35 | <dmwit> | dolio: Seems like the obvious language implementation technique for that is to slow down RAM. |
| 16:51:06 | <monochrom> | It is an OS feature. On Linux, use the mmap syscall to access disk as fast as memory. Some languages take advantage of it, some don't. So it is a language feature. >:) |
| 16:52:06 | <monochrom> | sscanf slows down memory speed to I/O speed >:) |
| 16:52:42 | <swarmcollective> | While we are at it, we might as well make RAM the same speed as processor cache. ;) |
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| 16:53:06 | <int-e> | dmwit: I'd read this "we cache and hope for 99.9% cache hits, which is supported by our microbenchmarks"... plus marketing. |
| 16:53:51 | <monochrom> | Can I download more disk space from the Internet? |
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| 16:54:14 | <dolio> | No, you need to get a disk doubler, like in Johnny Mnemonic. |
| 16:54:39 | <monochrom> | OK, last one: yo dog we heard you love disks so we let you download disks to your disks... |
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| 16:56:17 | <chisui> | Too bad the Banach–Tarski paradox only works for spheres, not disks |
| 16:56:27 | <monochrom> | haha |
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| 16:58:41 | <__minoru__shirae> | a database integrated into the language - interesting idea |
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| 16:59:06 | <monochrom> | Check out dBase II and Foxpro. |
| 16:59:49 | <dolio> | A database you can only access from a single, commercial language? :) |
| 17:00:26 | <monochrom> | heheh |
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| 17:01:05 | <monochrom> | Yeah, sounds like Oracle, IBM DB/2, and MS SQL server, eh? Except dBase II and Foxpro are actually Turing-complete too. |
| 17:01:06 | <__minoru__shirae> | a somewhat related things I heard about are: scala has spark, erlang - riak, right? but they are not integrated |
| 17:01:48 | <geekosaur> | and then there's pick, where the database is integrated into the OS |
| 17:02:10 | <monochrom> | Is that Palm? |
| 17:02:28 | <geekosaur> | hm? it's a minicomputer OS from the 70s/80s |
| 17:03:12 | <monochrom> | Ah OK. But PalmOS also does "database is integrated into the OS", if I understand my friend correctly. |
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| 17:04:36 | <geekosaur> | that's not too surprising. IBM used to do it as well and may still do it on z-Series |
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| 17:10:08 | <merijn> | __minoru__shirae: Spark is just Apache Spark, no? Or did they confusingly name something identical to that... |
| 17:10:37 | <__minoru__shirae> | merjin: yes, that spark. |
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| 17:11:56 | <merijn> | That's not Scala, though? That's just any JVM language, iirc |
| 17:12:42 | <__minoru__shirae> | merjin: yes, idk why I mentioned it, just a loose association |
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| 17:13:34 | <__minoru__shirae> | it's written in scala |
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| 17:20:28 | <__minoru__shirae> | one thing that surprised me when I noticed it was that the whole language may end up contained in one niche field |
| 17:20:39 | <__minoru__shirae> | which is what happened to scala imho |
| 17:21:12 | <__minoru__shirae> | majority of vacancies are about ML, data science with spark and stuff like that |
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| 17:22:05 | <aldum> | annoying af, I'm trying to nail a scala gig, and don't give two hoots about Big Data and ML |
| 17:22:31 | <__minoru__shirae> | but you see them all the time, yeah |
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| 17:22:37 | <aldum> | some exceptions include telco, cloud, and webslinging |
| 17:23:27 | <chisui> | aldum, easier than getting a haskell gig as a java dev. |
| 17:24:07 | <__minoru__shirae> | I guess it means that you have to learn several languages, if you don't want to end up in a language's niche |
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| 17:24:24 | <__minoru__shirae> | or learn some broadly used language |
| 17:24:39 | <aldum> | I don't know enough haskell yet to get a gig |
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| 17:26:05 | <__minoru__shirae> | or stop paying attention to vacancies at all |
| 17:27:58 | <swarmcollective> | I'd love to see increased adoption of Haskell by both engineers/developers and businesses. The hill can't be THAT steep (or is it?) |
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| 17:29:05 | <Rembane> | There's a chasm somewhere on the road up to the top of the hill. |
| 17:29:13 | <chisui> | judging by the attitude in my past and current workplaces it is |
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| 17:29:32 | <Uniaika> | one of the hills is tooling |
| 17:29:55 | <Rembane> | we aren't really there yet when it comes to tooling, are w? |
| 17:29:57 | <Rembane> | +e |
| 17:30:08 | <Uniaika> | depends on the level of precision |
| 17:30:19 | <aldum> | it's been getting a lot better since HLS picked up |
| 17:30:22 | <Uniaika> | there is the development tooling and related UX |
| 17:30:32 | <Uniaika> | but also the tooling around some libraries |
| 17:30:34 | <Uniaika> | like Servant |
| 17:30:52 | <Rembane> | I haven't used Servant in years, what parts are missing there? |
| 17:31:22 | <chisui> | Documentation would go a long way I think. Especially Documentation that isn't too mathematical |
| 17:32:09 | <swarmcollective> | I know some of the challenges I've encountered while trying to learn Haskell has been with the number of operators typically used and the lack of clarity in the documentation. For this reason, I'm looking to contribute to the documentation. |
| 17:32:11 | <chisui> | Monad is still a slur for many people |
| 17:32:23 | <Uniaika> | Rembane: I'm not saying it lacks stuff, but you need to write some layers on top of it to accomodate your application's needs |
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| 17:33:04 | <swarmcollective> | Agreed, HLS is a huge help. |
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| 17:33:27 | <Rembane> | Uniaika: That's indeed true. I didn't think too much about it to be honest, but I guess it becomes boring after five or six apps. |
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| 17:34:26 | <Uniaika> | if it's still in the same setting, you can have a 'commons' library that gives you all of that |
| 17:36:56 | <__minoru__shirae> | "I'd love to see increased adoption of Haskell by both engineers/developers and businesses." |
| 17:37:06 | <__minoru__shirae> | you can do the opposite |
| 17:37:24 | <__minoru__shirae> | use haskell as an advantage and hope nobody else uses it |
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| 17:37:43 | <Rembane> | Is Haskell really an advantage? |
| 17:37:51 | Rembane | ducks behind an overturned table |
| 17:38:04 | Uniaika | slaps Rembane on the back of the head |
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| 17:38:27 | <swarmcollective> | __minoru__shirae, Ha, I actually thought about that, but first I need to learn enough to be proficient. :D |
| 17:38:35 | <Uniaika> | __minoru__shirae: some online game companies did that with Erlang, in the 2000's |
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| 17:38:48 | <Uniaika> | they were saying "nah we use boring ol' Java here" |
| 17:38:54 | <Uniaika> | and Erlang was their secret card |
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| 17:40:27 | <dolio> | Using Haskell myself doesn't make all the software I use that I didn't write any better. |
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| 17:40:50 | <Rembane> | Uniaika: :D |
| 17:43:50 | <__minoru__shirae> | haskell community is really several layers |
| 17:44:06 | <chisui> | dolio: Only solution: rewrite it in Haskell |
| 17:44:12 | <swarmcollective> | If Google would put some actual effort into Kotlin, it could at least reduce the boilerplate and still run on JVM. Instead, they just keep that card up their sleeve for when Oracle does something they don't like. |
| 17:44:15 | <dolio> | Rewrite what? |
| 17:44:32 | <chisui> | the software you didn't wirte |
| 17:44:36 | <dolio> | No. |
| 17:44:59 | <__minoru__shirae> | academics doing academic stuff in their ivory towers |
| 17:45:10 | <__minoru__shirae> | a thin layer of industral haskellers |
| 17:45:24 | <__minoru__shirae> | a layer of hobbyists and fanatics |
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| 17:46:16 | <__minoru__shirae> | is that assesment right? |
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| 17:46:21 | <swarmcollective> | I'm more interested, though, in the GraalVM work to translate JVM to GraalVM. |
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| 17:48:41 | <Rembane> | __minoru__shirae: It sounds a bit like a paraphrase of the ring verse. |
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| 17:49:55 | <monochrom> | I have a feeling that the industrial haskellers are like dark matter. They are the majority, but they aren't vocal (look, they have real jobs and real lives) so you don't see them. Yet their dominating mass shows in 3rd-party libraries and international programming language user surveys etc. This is known as the cold dark matter λ model. |
| 17:50:03 | <swarmcollective> | Aside from LLVM, has anyone attempted to compile Haskell to one of the other runtimes? (CLR, JVM, GraalVM)? |
| 17:50:51 | <dolio> | Yes. |
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| 17:51:14 | <monochrom> | dons, chrisdone, manatee are examples of #haskell regulars who turned dark matter. |
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| 17:53:28 | <swarmcollective> | I know of a couple people that use Haskell both at work and "for fun", but neither of them frequent #Haskell |
| 17:53:49 | <shapr> | hey, do I count? :-P |
| 17:54:05 | <swarmcollective> | You do now! |
| 17:54:07 | <shapr> | whew |
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| 17:54:29 | <swarmcollective> | Do you stream or record any of your "for fun" projects? |
| 17:54:47 | <shapr> | like, video? |
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| 17:54:56 | <swarmcollective> | Right. |
| 17:54:59 | <shapr> | nope, never tried it |
| 17:55:12 | <shapr> | but I do like to write small useful things on the weekends: https://github.com/shapr/bloohm |
| 17:55:39 | <shapr> | I'd be willing to try it if I knew how. |
| 17:55:51 | <swarmcollective> | There exists a niche of Twitch and YouTube streamers who focus on Haskell. That's how I was introduced to Haskell in the first place. |
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| 17:56:10 | <swarmcollective> | On Twitch, you'll find them under Science and Technology. |
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| 17:56:35 | <maerwald> | it'll still be hard to become an influencer in Dubai by writing haskell |
| 17:56:36 | <shapr> | swarmcollective: do you stream your projects? |
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| 17:59:01 | <swarmcollective> | I do, but not consistently. Most of the Haskell I've written has been random plugins for a (poorly) modified lambdabot, Advent of Code, and a coding kata project. |
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| 18:23:28 | <hseg> | with TypeApplications, how do you apply the composition of two type constructors? |
| 18:24:18 | <dmwit> | @(Foo (Bar a)) -- ? |
| 18:24:18 | <lambdabot> | Unknown command, try @list |
| 18:24:25 | <dmwit> | sorry \bot |
| 18:25:01 | <hseg> | e.g. say f :: t a -> g b and i want to specialize t~[], g~[[]] |
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| 18:25:48 | <dmwit> | That doesn't happen. |
| 18:26:00 | <dmwit> | However, it could happen that t ~ [], g ~ [], and b ~ [x] for some x. |
| 18:26:10 | <hseg> | oh right |
| 18:26:54 | <monochrom> | You need something like Data.Functor.Compose.Compose. Whether you use TypeApplications or not. |
| 18:27:29 | <dmwit> | This may be one of the more concise examples of why higher order unification is hard. |
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| 18:30:48 | <hseg> | dammit. was trying to write sth like (#.) that'd unify with :: Coercible a b => (a -> b) -> ([a] -> [[a]]) -> ([b] -> [[b]]) |
| 18:31:32 | <dmwit> | Can you... give a few more details? |
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| 18:32:28 | <dmwit> | Like maybe what role you want the `a -> b` function to play? |
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| 18:32:43 | <dmwit> | Or like... IDK. What is `#.` supposed to do? |
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| 18:33:08 | <hseg> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.14.1.0/docs/src/Data.Functor.Utils.html#%23. |
| 18:33:22 | <hseg> | sorry, should've been clearer |
| 18:33:54 | <hseg> | i.e. (#.) = const coerce |
| 18:34:24 | <hseg> | but with a type signature that makes the unification provide the particular coercion you're interested in |
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| 18:35:06 | <dmwit> | % :t let foo :: Coercible a b => (a -> b) -> ([a] -> [[a]]) -> ([b] -> [[b]]); foo _ = coerce in foo |
| 18:35:07 | <yahb> | dmwit: Coercible a b => (a -> b) -> ([a] -> [[a]]) -> [b] -> [[b]] |
| 18:35:15 | <dmwit> | So... what went wrong for you? |
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| 18:37:23 | <dmwit> | I find the comment on #. confusing. It says "Several functions here use (#.) instead of (.)" but all of the occurences of #. on that page are in its definition or the comment. |
| 18:38:23 | <dmwit> | I guess "here" has an expanded meaning of "in other modules of this package" or something. |
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| 18:43:40 | <hseg> | occurs in Data.Foldable |
| 18:44:02 | <hseg> | what went wrong for me is that I tried to generalize over the pair [], [[]] |
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| 18:46:05 | <hseg> | and gave the generalization a type (Coercible a b, _) => (a -> b) -> (f a -> g a) -> (f b -> g b) |
| 18:46:21 | <hseg> | which testing reveals works if f, g are type constructors |
| 18:46:42 | <hseg> | but as you've pointed out, can't unify with my [a] -> [[a]] bc a /~ [a] |
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| 18:51:35 | <dmwit> | go big or go home |
| 18:51:47 | <dmwit> | (a -> b) -> (f a -> g (h a)) -> (f b -> g (h b)) |
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| 19:05:45 | <monochrom> | I would stick to "forall a. f a -> g a" and "(a -> b) -> (f a -> g a) -> (f b -> g b)". I would use Coerce on very specifically between [[X]] and (Compose [] []) X, and g = Compose [] []. I would not add a "general" "Coercible a b" constraint. |
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| 19:07:23 | <monochrom> | This is why whenever something is difficult for computers, I conclude "so nevermind humans". |
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| 19:08:35 | <monochrom> | To unify "g a" with "[] ([] X)" for this purpose (though not for the purposes), the correct unification is to first rewrite [] ([] X) = (Compose [] []) X, then a=X, g = Compose [] []. |
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| 19:08:55 | <monochrom> | s/though not for the puposes/though not for other purposes/ |
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| 19:09:22 | <monochrom> | But it is too easy to yield to the temptation of g = [], a = [X]. |
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| 19:09:54 | <monochrom> | From that slippery slope it's XY problems all the way down. |
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| 19:28:11 | <xsperry> | f\ |
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| 19:41:13 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Is there some function empty :: Traversable t => t a -> Maybe (t b) ? |
| 19:42:06 | <koz_> | :t null |
| 19:42:08 | <lambdabot> | Foldable t => t a -> Bool |
| 19:42:17 | <koz_> | If this is possible, I'm sure so is that. |
| 19:42:26 | <koz_> | In fact I think there's a Foldable-based 'head'? |
| 19:42:38 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Notice the change of type variable |
| 19:42:59 | <geekosaur> | I wasjust wondering where you expected the b to come from |
| 19:43:14 | <koz_> | OK yeah, I echo the clever dinosaur's question. |
| 19:43:38 | <[exa]> | what's the maybe doing there? |
| 19:43:53 | <tomjaguarpaw> | If the traversable is empty the b doesn't need to come from anywhere |
| 19:44:20 | <tomjaguarpaw> | If the Traversable is non-empty it will return Nothing |
| 19:44:41 | <tomjaguarpaw> | If the Traversable is empty it will return an empty t (of any type) |
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| 19:45:32 | <swarmcollective> | :t fromMaybe |
| 19:45:33 | <lambdabot> | a -> Maybe a -> a |
| 19:45:39 | <geekosaur> | I think it still has to pick some type to work |
| 19:45:39 | <swarmcollective> | along with `null` |
| 19:46:00 | <geekosaur> | even though the type isn't relevant. see also ExtendedDefaultRules in ghci |
| 19:46:08 | <tomjaguarpaw> | \case { [] -> Just []; (_:_) -> Nothing } |
| 19:46:14 | <tomjaguarpaw> | \case { Nothing -> Just Nothing; Just _ -> Nothing } |
| 19:46:14 | <swarmcollective> | :when |
| 19:46:15 | <geekosaur> | (which more or less exists to let it default to () so such things can work) |
| 19:46:27 | <swarmcollective> | Maybe I was thinking of `when` with `null` |
| 19:46:51 | <[exa]> | :t traverse (const Nothing) |
| 19:46:52 | <lambdabot> | Traversable t => t b1 -> Maybe (t b2) |
| 19:47:12 | <tomjaguarpaw> | [exa]++ |
| 19:47:19 | <tomjaguarpaw> | That's the ticket, thanks! |
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| 19:48:25 | <[exa]> | what'd you use it for? |
| 19:48:40 | <[exa]> | to me it seems that for whatever purpose there's gonna be a better way |
| 19:49:00 | <koz_> | If Data.Vector.generate and generateM are passed a negative size, do you get back an empty Vector? |
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| 19:50:19 | <koz_> | The docs don't say anything, the implementation is a convoluted mess of cross-links which also says nothing after like, 5-level deep recursive link chasing. |
| 19:50:29 | <tomjaguarpaw> | I'm trying to convert globDirWith' to take a Traversable whilst being minimally invasive on the implementation https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Glob-0.9.2/docs/src/System-FilePath-Glob-Directory.html#globDir |
| 19:50:30 | <EvanR> | try it and see? |
| 19:50:36 | <koz_> | EvanR: ... |
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| 19:50:44 | <koz_> | Thanks, real helpful. :P |
| 19:50:54 | <[exa]> | koz_: it's the only help |
| 19:51:04 | <EvanR> | well, it would answer what the question of what the code does xD |
| 19:51:46 | <koz_> | What's the argument to 'cabal repl' to stitch in an extra dependency? |
| 19:51:55 | <EvanR> | unless it freezes, then you'd have to wait for possibly forever to find out |
| 19:52:05 | <[exa]> | tomjaguarpaw: well... plugging in a traversable may itself be pretty invasive :D |
| 19:52:16 | <geekosaur> | koz_, I did the same chase and bottomed out at: delay_inline max n 0 |
| 19:52:33 | <koz_> | geekosaur: Which I _guess_ means you get an empty Vector? |
| 19:52:35 | <geekosaur> | which I think means it produces 0 |
| 19:52:37 | <dcoutts> | koz_: usually the best way is to add the extra package to the project, so it appears in the repl sessions. |
| 19:53:17 | <dcoutts> | koz_: https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.4/cabal-project.html#cfg-field-extra-packages |
| 19:53:36 | <geekosaur> | yeh, delay_inline is an internal hack and it's readable as max n 0, so it should be using 0 as the length |
| 19:53:59 | <koz_> | dcoutts: Thanks for the reference. My goal was to check something quickly, for which I don't wanna have to hammer together a brand-new project. |
| 19:54:15 | <koz_> | It's moot anyway, because the kind and attractive smart dino already answered my question. |
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| 19:54:49 | <tomjaguarpaw> | [exa]: I thin it's pretty uninvasive: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/xXtuonZp |
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| 20:10:59 | <d34df00d> | I wouldn't rely on that behaviour unless it's mentioned in the docs. |
| 20:11:13 | <d34df00d> | koz_: what if they change this behaviour, it being undocumented and thus technically UB? |
| 20:11:31 | <koz_> | d34df00d: The fact that they don't is a problem in itself. |
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| 20:22:33 | <monochrom> | Oh, dcoutts is around. dcoutts, did you see https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2021-February/133453.html ? |
| 20:22:58 | <monochrom> | I'm OK with "this is intended". |
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| 20:24:47 | <monochrom> | Hell, I'm also OK with "this is a bug, we already know". :) |
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| 20:36:20 | <maerwald[m]> | Someone needs to clean up the command line interface |
| 20:37:24 | <maerwald[m]> | I would not be surprised if the thing that breaks it is actually sdist |
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| 20:40:13 | <monochrom> | That may not be the whole story. With a carefully written cabal.project, "build" and "install" are consistent with each other. |
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| 20:41:42 | <sclv> | install going via sdist leads to some surprising things and some not surprising things :-) |
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| 20:43:50 | <monochrom> | The discrepency I noticed is this. "cabal configure --enable-documentation" generates both top-level "documentation: True" and "package * \n documentation: True". But "cabal configure --enable-profiling" generates only the former. |
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| 20:44:55 | <monochrom> | OK, I no longer know, cabal-install is such a large codebase that there are discrepencies everywhere like MS software. |
| 20:46:02 | <monochrom> | Too many chefs. |
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| 20:55:03 | <hseg> | ok, ripping out most of the genericity made it work. could give up the coercions as well at the cost of some tags. but there's got to be a better way than this: http://ix.io/2Qzm |
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| 21:43:50 | <dolio> | Someone just told me that Excel is getting lambda expressions. We might no longer be able to say it's a 0th order functional language. |
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| 21:45:53 | <hpc> | it is |
| 21:46:00 | <hpc> | in true excel fashion, they're super weird |
| 21:46:14 | <dolio> | Apparently it's SPJ's fault. :) |
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| 21:46:19 | <hpc> | i understood it briefly, and then i closed the tab and forgot 10 seconds later |
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| 22:33:19 | <Looking> | /!\ this chat has moved to irc.crimeircd.net #0 /!\ |
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| 22:43:55 | <CrunchyChewieuz> | D4yis5hJF5xGzhtxsmfSa6H6c1oNRQrvxbcoKvKZ2Cm2EeCLta8IbserUt8D7lPR74g5tQ8uT3sQw8vwBQHGxzSvGET1VwoKcsH2mKVJvbbUk2G2wXduUCql |
| 22:43:58 | <CrunchyChewieuz> | 5Cmxe0MoEYQKzfCa076yzo6SYAUxgbsuf3NW0Re9mgKeWvfErG5ItCgJmmVt6a8nYtvVo2qvmfJ656wNN6Ks6TXB5cBqsAZ4IyslYHujmwkBjmrCLO3MuYID |
| 22:44:05 | <CrunchyChewieuz> | FEipuM8Aio1laV6sFOXgc8Ess7wlf0b9yLApezjQQAJPXDoaCQGVU01wBeeL3U777spECDqQIgP4tbr5ELnXAy5r7UNtKd96biHrZu7wqdiabjHHtC8amyg8 |
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| 22:44:23 | <CrunchyChewieuz> | a6Z8AepNxWCeiVQzRkXa2JWyDKT8eq1HmvhNhb3ni9OIB8uqtjBSsuBL04HxxR6bKzgkTJlojSnFROeI0aBl8qkHxmQvrKzDtfNYJobm4snqgosJb6UVZGeg |
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| 22:44:49 | <msm> | YUQbsRkflIMTt68tgmMwwxKNxspxlIcKYcbx9qgkF73H6vz3AZEtSz6Mb4DYAfQshC9IaQCQ0g7RfyJ0I512N6ERJaJAASMcpAzEU9M2ijNIsDmDOooEOxpO |
| 22:44:54 | ChanServ | sets mode +o dolio |
| 22:44:54 | dolio | sets mode +b msm!*@* |
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| 22:47:27 | <tomjaguarpaw> | It is SPJ and Andy Gordon's fault, amongst the fault of others |
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| 22:47:50 | ChanServ | sets mode +o monochrom |
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| 22:50:06 | monochrom | sets mode +b $~a |
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| 23:03:53 | <shapr> | tomjaguarpaw: because they made a successful language, we have to tolerate spam? |
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| 23:04:11 | <shapr> | oh, excel gets lambdas |
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| 23:04:14 | monochrom | sets mode +r |
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| 23:10:46 | <drozdziak1> | I have a problem sith stack's Nix support. I get linking errors after I changed my nixpkgs revision and moved on to use an external shell file |
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| 23:11:52 | <drozdziak1> | Has anyone here experiencedsomething similar? My stack comes from a shell.nix that pins nixpkgs at the same revision as my `shell-file` |
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| 23:12:13 | <shapr> | I use cabal with nix-shell, seems okay so far |
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| 23:14:48 | ChanServ | sets mode +o glguy |
| 23:14:48 | glguy | sets mode +z |
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| 23:16:57 | <monochrom> | Hrm, for +z to be meaningful, it would need -r, and also change b to q. Do you want this? |
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| 23:20:04 | <drozdziak1> | shapr Yeah, my money goes on stack in particular mishandling nixpkgs bumps somehow. It is likely a nix store cache as `stack purge` doesn't make this go away |
| 23:21:01 | <drozdziak1> | maybe internally it looks for <nixpkgs> instead of my pin |
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| 23:27:29 | <glguy> | minoru_shiraeesh: while we're dealing with the spam wave you'll need ot register with nickserv to be heard here |
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| 23:29:09 | ChanServ | sets mode +o dolio |
| 23:30:11 | monochrom | sets mode -r |
| 23:30:18 | monochrom | sets mode -b $~a |
| 23:30:33 | monochrom | sets mode +q $~a |
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| 23:34:47 | monochrom | sets mode -o monochrom |
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| 23:56:21 | <drozdziak1> | FYI removing ~/.stack cleared the issue |
| 23:56:39 | <drozdziak1> | I guess it isn't common for stack to anticipate all *.so files to slip from under it |
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All times are in UTC on 2021-02-23.