Logs on 2021-03-02 (freenode/#haskell)
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| 00:00:09 | <Axman6> | sm[m]: lts-16.2 apparently |
| 00:00:35 | × | cgadski quits (~cgadski@a95-95-106-208.cpe.netcabo.pt) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 00:01:28 | <sm[m]> | right. So stack install pandoc -/resolver lts-16.2 should work, for getting an old pandoc installed |
| 00:01:36 | <sm[m]> | but it takes forever |
| 00:01:53 | <perrier-jouet> | Axman6: is 17.4 ok ? |
| 00:01:54 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 00:01:58 | <perrier-jouet> | lts 17.4 ? |
| 00:02:03 | <sm[m]> | No |
| 00:02:08 | <ezzieyguywuf> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/haskell-language-server why isn't v1.0.0.0 up yet? |
| 00:02:22 | <sm[m]> | unless you stack install from inside the pandoc source, perrier-jouet |
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| 00:02:46 | <Axman6> | supastupid: lots of weird stuff going on in that file - defaults = def { ...} should either have a let statement, or not be indented (which I think is what you want). Also there's lots of tabs in that file which will break things. |
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| 00:03:03 | <perrier-jouet> | sm[m]: I am on archlinux, and I want uptodate packages, I removed all haskell packages, I only installed ghc like, pacman -S ghc, and installed stack like yay -S stack |
| 00:03:29 | <monochrom> | I am actually surprised that it got as far as "not in scope". I would expect "parse error, I'm outta here" |
| 00:03:32 | <sm[m]> | I'm not even going to touch arch Haskell, sorry :) |
| 00:03:38 | <perrier-jouet> | now stack setup and after stack install anypackage does not work |
| 00:03:46 | <supastupid> | Axman6: what? it isn't indented and what is let, where do i put |
| 00:03:48 | × | wroathe quits (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 00:03:56 | <sm[m]> | I've told you how to stack install pandoc , and that you probably shouldn't :) |
| 00:04:19 | <perrier-jouet> | I know, I can't blame you there seem to be 2 camp, and average joe is sandwiched in between |
| 00:04:23 | <perrier-jouet> | :( :( |
| 00:04:36 | <monochrom> | Wait, archlinux's package command is "yay"?! |
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| 00:04:47 | <perrier-jouet> | for stack |
| 00:04:58 | <perrier-jouet> | but primary is pacman |
| 00:05:03 | <hpc> | is that any weirder than yum? :P |
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| 00:05:14 | <monochrom> | yum and yay and should there will be dab too. |
| 00:05:23 | <Clint> | surely arch has pandoc too |
| 00:05:27 | <ggVGc> | as an arch user since 10 years I can assure you I do not know what "yay" is |
| 00:05:30 | <ezzieyguywuf> | lol just come over to gentoo we won't bite |
| 00:05:41 | <ggVGc> | and that installing stack through pacman is usually a crap idea anyway |
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| 00:06:03 | <Axman6> | supastupid: here is a diff of what changes I think you need to make: https://dpaste.com/6PFZZKXHU/diff/CPFEGPJEE |
| 00:06:27 | <ggVGc> | And yes, there's pandoc in arch, but then you get all the haskell libraries globally, which might be fine |
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| 00:06:54 | <perrier-jouet> | I am sorry I installed stack like curl -sSL https://get.haskellstack.org/ | sh |
| 00:07:05 | <ggVGc> | personally I vote installing stack manually, not through pacman, and letting it manage itself. And installing for example pandoc using stack |
| 00:07:09 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 00:07:17 | <perrier-jouet> | my stack version after stack upgrade is 2.5.1 |
| 00:07:22 | <ggVGc> | yeah that's what I do too perrier-jouet |
| 00:07:29 | <monochrom> | Hey if someone forks debian and call it dabian, that would be cool. >:) |
| 00:07:47 | <maerwald> | they called it ubuntu |
| 00:07:48 | <Axman6> | supastupid: and https://dpaste.com/CPFEGPJEE is what I think should work |
| 00:08:02 | <Axman6> | maerwald: :lit: |
| 00:08:28 | <maerwald> | if you fork crap, it's still gonna be crap though |
| 00:08:30 | <perrier-jouet> | ggVGc: but afterward installing packages does not work complain about config.yaml like add this to config.yaml |
| 00:08:45 | <monochrom> | I'm just going for puns and memes. |
| 00:08:57 | <python476> | ggVGc: it's a tiny bit of a fair point. But really of all the languages I've learned .. java/oo stands at the bottom of brain value and the highest on the pain ladder |
| 00:09:41 | <maerwald> | hey, you can code java while drunk... that's pretty impressive |
| 00:09:43 | <ggVGc> | perrier-jouet: you can change the stack resolver in .stack/global-project/stack.yaml |
| 00:09:49 | <ggVGc> | to one where pandoc builds correctly |
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| 00:10:02 | <ggVGc> | alternatively, you can add the packages it tells you to add there |
| 00:10:07 | <python476> | from year one I was enquiring about metaprogramming ala smalltalk and making tiny thunks like objects in java. teachers disapproved that and forced us/me to go full mainstream. wasted brain and energy |
| 00:10:12 | <ggVGc> | as extra-deps |
| 00:10:38 | <perrier-jouet> | ggVGc: it's not just one it's a lot |
| 00:10:49 | <supastupid> | Axman6: how do i use this file? (also thanks) |
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| 00:11:37 | <ggVGc> | python476: this is too long of a discussion to get into, but the point of java isn't to be a beautiful high-featured language, and I think you're aware of that too |
| 00:11:56 | <ggVGc> | perrier-jouet: sure, you can add all of them. It's just copu-pasting, right? Or downgrade the resolver |
| 00:12:05 | <sm[m]> | perrier-jouet: I know this gets confusing and it's hard to follow advice from chat. I'm going to try and summarise once more. Building pandoc takes a long time so you should try to install a binary instead. If you really want to build, there are two ways. 1. stack --resolver lts-16 install pandoc. 2. git clone pandoc.. cd pandoc.. stack insta.. |
| 00:12:07 | <sm[m]> | stack install. |
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| 00:12:52 | <ggVGc> | 3. Change the global resolver; stack install pandoc |
| 00:13:01 | <maerwald> | sm[m]: namaste |
| 00:13:22 | <sm[m]> | yes, that's the more permanent form of 1 |
| 00:13:33 | <ggVGc> | alright, let's call it 1.6 |
| 00:13:36 | <perrier-jouet> | I am going to try resolver 8.10.3 instead of 8.10.4 |
| 00:13:42 | <sm[m]> | lol |
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| 00:14:00 | <perrier-jouet> | lts 17.2 |
| 00:14:05 | <sm[m]> | I think perrier-jouet is an agent of chaos |
| 00:14:23 | <Axman6> | supastupid: the same way you use the file you shared? I don't understand |
| 00:14:26 | <ggVGc> | arch linux is the agent of chaos, at least in the context of haskell |
| 00:14:28 | <ggVGc> | unfortunately |
| 00:14:44 | <sm[m]> | they have stack installed, arch won't be a problem |
| 00:14:57 | <python476> | ggVGc: yeah |
| 00:15:13 | <perrier-jouet> | like stack setup --system-ghc --resolver ghc-8.10.3 is it ok ? |
| 00:15:27 | <supastupid> | Axman6: that's a diff file |
| 00:15:52 | <minoru_shiraeesh> | why dont arch users install haskell in ubuntu wrapped in docker if it's so difficult to install it in arch? you can install docker in arch, right? |
| 00:16:07 | <supastupid> | nvm |
| 00:16:25 | <Axman6> | supastupid: use the second link I sent |
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| 00:16:44 | <ggVGc> | minoru_shiraeesh: because we can't install docker without building our window manager which is xmonad which is in haskell which we can't use because we can't build it |
| 00:17:11 | <minoru_shiraeesh> | oh, I see |
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| 00:19:34 | <hpc> | that's easy, just make an infinitely nested docker container :D |
| 00:19:57 | <Axman6> | container = from container |
| 00:20:07 | <hpc> | why does docker depend on your window manager? |
| 00:20:21 | <Axman6> | progress bars |
| 00:20:26 | <Axman6> | (I'm joking) |
| 00:20:38 | <hpc> | the stuff i have seen, that could easily be the answer |
| 00:21:27 | <Axman6> | "How do we figure out what OS we're running on?" "We open op the system information window, screenshot it, and then OCR the image. There's so simpler way" |
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| 00:24:33 | <hpc> | someday intel's going to add the xmlpostfacebookbuffer instruction to x86 |
| 00:25:20 | <hpc> | it will take a pointer to a null-terminated buffer because even in the future it's still the 1990s |
| 00:26:02 | <systemfault> | Well.. ARM CPUs have special instruction for JavaScript IIRC... |
| 00:26:16 | <systemfault> | We're slowly getting there |
| 00:26:18 | <python476> | js ? or java |
| 00:26:18 | <Axman6> | they have instructions for Java, definitely |
| 00:26:39 | <systemfault> | JavaScript. |
| 00:26:42 | <ezzieyguywuf> | yea I get it |
| 00:26:44 | <minoru_shiraeesh> | hpc: "why does docker depend on your window manager?" hmm, right. you already have an access to a terminal, so you don't need a window manager to install docker. maybe he was kidding. |
| 00:26:45 | <Axman6> | since when? |
| 00:26:49 | <systemfault> | https://developer.arm.com/documentation/dui0801/g/A64-Floating-point-Instructions/FJCVTZS |
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| 00:26:57 | <python476> | hmm now i remember seeing a news about that not long ago yeah |
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| 00:28:32 | <Axman6> | I wonder if the the Jazelle stuff still exists |
| 00:29:15 | <ggVGc> | systemfault: the problem with the 1990s is that in the 1990s it was still the 80s |
| 00:29:57 | <python476> | 80s are forever |
| 00:30:05 | <minoru_shiraeesh> | it's interesting how I said "I wonder" once and everybody started using that phrase. A glitch in the matrix. |
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| 00:31:05 | <Axman6> | Hey it's the guy who invented the phrase "I wonder" |
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| 00:31:32 | <ggVGc> | holy shit ARM chips actually do have an instruction specifically for JS floats... |
| 00:32:00 | <ggVGc> | guess it'll help a lot when all virtualization is done through wasm |
| 00:32:02 | <minoru_shiraeesh> | no, really, I mean, you use a phrase and suddenly everybody uses it and you're like "huh?" |
| 00:32:18 | <Axman6> | I've felt for a while that ARM is just x86 CISC in new clothes. I think Aarch64 simplified things a fair bit though, IIRC |
| 00:32:26 | <ggVGc> | funny, I once said "huh?" and now it see it everywhere |
| 00:32:31 | <monochrom> | I'm like "huh?" too, but not for "I wonder". |
| 00:32:33 | <Axman6> | Huh? |
| 00:32:53 | <Axman6> | I whuhonder |
| 00:33:12 | <Axman6> | I think I have a good claim for stating I invented that one... |
| 00:33:35 | <Axman6> | "No results found for "I whuhonder" " - Google confirms it |
| 00:33:39 | <monochrom> | You're in one of those Star Trek TNG episodes where you're trapped in a subuniverse and everything you do is echoed. Stationary waves and all. |
| 00:33:44 | <Axman6> | You saw it here first folks |
| 00:35:12 | <ephemient> | ARM having specific instructions for specific languages is nothing new, see Jazelle (Java bytecode execution mode in hardware) |
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| 00:37:15 | <python476> | it's surprising jazelle/thumb were kept for so long |
| 00:37:23 | <python476> | does android use them ? |
| 00:37:41 | <python476> | it was used in the previous era ~javacard |
| 00:38:31 | <ephemient> | Android doesn't, Dalvik is pretty different |
| 00:38:57 | <python476> | hmm untyped lambda fest https://dpaste.com/G7UWQD7ER |
| 00:39:20 | <python476> | so jazelle is vestigial tail at that point |
| 00:39:22 | <ephemient> | or rather, Jazelle isn't used. Thumb definitely is |
| 00:39:33 | <minoru_shiraeesh> | monochrom: maybe it's like those videotapes in which people installed huge mirrors in the forest and animals freak out when they see their reflections, some of them realise that it's a reflection, some don't |
| 00:39:40 | <ephemient> | it was always optional and not often implemented anyway so 🤷 |
| 00:39:47 | <python476> | aight |
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| 00:43:55 | <ggVGc> | when are we getting a compiler that can build haskell into GPU instructions |
| 00:44:06 | <ggVGc> | I guess one exists and I should have googled first |
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| 00:46:00 | <python476> | GrePUceron |
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| 00:48:54 | <ephemient> | somebody mentioned Reduceron a while ago... |
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| 00:54:00 | <python476> | now its time to revive it |
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| 00:54:27 | <python476> | griduceron, gpu grid variant of the reduceron, perfect for your blockchain/dapps ! |
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| 00:54:52 | <koz_> | I have some problems building (or rather, hyperlinking) Haddocks for my stuff for types coming from third-party libraries. What do I need to set where to have that not be a problem? |
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| 00:56:48 | <python476> | https://github.com/jvranish/MiniKanrenT |
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| 01:02:54 | <koz_> | --enable-documentation was the solution |
| 01:03:26 | mawk | is now known as mxwk |
| 01:03:40 | <python476> | #obviousinretrospect |
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| 01:12:02 | <ezzieyguywuf> | how does a package go from github to hackage? someone has to upload it or something? |
| 01:12:09 | <koz_> | ezzieyguywuf: Yes. |
| 01:12:19 | <koz_> | In fact, I am in the middle of doing so right now. |
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| 01:12:48 | <ezzieyguywuf> | who do I talk to do to that for haskell-language-server? |
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| 01:13:06 | <koz_> | ezzieyguywuf: Who's the maintainer? |
| 01:13:12 | <koz_> | Or maintainers I suppose. |
| 01:13:14 | <koz_> | They'd be the ones. |
| 01:13:27 | <ezzieyguywuf> | ah - is that listed on hackage somewhere? |
| 01:13:46 | <koz_> | Well, I mean it in the sense of 'who is the executive thing-doer'. |
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| 01:14:03 | <koz_> | Since I would assume that the executive thing-doer has either already done this, or has good reasons not to have done this. |
| 01:14:11 | <koz_> | And that it would be best to ask said executive thing-doer. |
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| 01:19:21 | <supastupid> | someone please help, https://dpaste.com/6PFZZKXHU |
| 01:19:31 | <supastupid> | is my xmonad.hs |
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| 01:19:45 | <koz_> | supastupid: Could you be more specific what you need help _with_? |
| 01:19:53 | <supastupid> | hol up i was gonna say that |
| 01:19:58 | <supastupid> | xmobar isnt launching |
| 01:20:16 | <supastupid> | and when i launch it manually it says "Updating..." |
| 01:20:58 | <supastupid> | (forever) |
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| 01:53:56 | <supastupid> | i am back |
| 01:54:07 | <supastupid> | where is anyone |
| 01:57:27 | <perrier-jouet> | Axman6: I suceded installing pandoc like stack install --resolver=lts-17.4 pandoc |
| 01:57:29 | <perrier-jouet> | it worked |
| 01:58:03 | <perrier-jouet> | but installing happstack with stack install --resolver=lts-17.4 happstack I get this http://ix.io/2RmR |
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| 02:02:12 | <sm[m]> | perrier-jouet: I'm impressed, congrats! |
| 02:02:41 | <sm[m]> | it seems for happstack you will need to use the older lts though. And the best place to report that is happstack issue tracker |
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| 02:04:36 | <perrier-jouet> | sm[m]: other packages don't install |
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| 02:05:03 | <perrier-jouet> | http://ix.io/2RmV |
| 02:05:09 | <perrier-jouet> | stack install miso http://ix.io/2RmV |
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| 02:06:48 | <sm[m]> | perrier-jouet: maybe it's simply that happstack has been deprecated in favour of happstack-server |
| 02:06:54 | <sm[m]> | try stack install happstack-server |
| 02:07:35 | <sm[m]> | for miso, try lts-16. stack install miso --resolver lts-16 |
| 02:08:34 | <sm[m]> | though, miso uses GHCJS so you should maybe follow the install instructions at https://github.com/dmjio/miso |
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| 02:17:33 | <perrier-jouet> | stack install happstack-server http://ix.io/2RmW |
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| 02:19:03 | <ezzieyguywuf> | hah, I've been chasing my tail |
| 02:19:13 | <ezzieyguywuf> | I thought I needed ghc 9.0.1 to try cabal-3.4.0.0 |
| 02:19:22 | <ezzieyguywuf> | or rather, cabal-install-3.4.0.0 |
| 02:19:34 | <ezzieyguywuf> | but I don't think cabal-install has been ported to 9.0.1 yet |
| 02:20:23 | <monochrom> | Yeah I think cabal-install 3.4 is not buildable by GHC 9.0.1 yet, probably not even 8.10.4 |
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| 02:20:59 | <ezzieyguywuf> | so stick to 8.10.3 then |
| 02:21:13 | <ezzieyguywuf> | but I guess cabal-3.4.0.0 should work with ghc-9.0.1, i mean it ships with it bundled |
| 02:21:26 | <ezzieyguywuf> | I guess the main thing I want to try is --allow-newer |
| 02:21:27 | <monochrom> | cabal-install has accreted so much dependency over the years that I stopped building it from source a long time ago. |
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| 02:22:01 | <ezzieyguywuf> | which as someone pointed out is documented here for cabal-3.4.0.0 Setup.hs stuff , but I was unable to actually use it with bare cabal https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.4/setup-commands.html#cmdoption-runhaskell-Setup.hs-configure-allow-newer |
| 02:22:07 | <ezzieyguywuf> | thus I started trying cabal-install stuff |
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| 02:25:20 | <ezzieyguywuf> | so really 9.0.1 should probably mostly be avoided right now? |
| 02:25:22 | <ezzieyguywuf> | too new? |
| 02:25:43 | <sm[m]> | perrier-jouet: try doing stack update first ? |
| 02:26:04 | <sm[m]> | is this with lts-17.4 as your global resolver ? |
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| 02:26:58 | <sm[m]> | stack update && stack install --resolver lts-17.4 happstack-server |
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| 02:41:37 | <nshepperd2> | i'm unreasonably excited for NoFieldSelectors in ghc 9.2 |
| 02:41:50 | <nshepperd2> | this is way more exciting than DependentHaskell xD |
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| 02:49:05 | <falsifian> | NoFieldSelectors looks interesting. I haven't tried it, but my first thought is it seems annoying not to have access to the field names as functions --- I fairly often do want to access those functions. |
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| 03:00:50 | <nshepperd2> | it's mostly to be used together with NamedFieldPuns |
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| 03:00:58 | <monochrom> | My understanding is that it is the other feature, the one that legalizes the equivalant of SML's myRecord#thatField, that's exciting. The role of NoFieldSelectors is then to remove an ambiguity that you no longer need. |
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| 03:01:53 | <nshepperd2> | the advantage is, you can add the functions if you want them, but they don't need to have the same name as the field, meaning you don't need the field itself to be namespaced |
| 03:02:45 | <nshepperd2> | ie. you can just write data Point = MkPoint {x :: Int, y :: Int} instead of pointX, pointY, and still not have name collisions |
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| 03:03:41 | <falsifian> | Oh, which feature gives you something like record#field? |
| 03:04:00 | <nshepperd2> | RecordDotSyntax will be cool too |
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| 03:04:31 | <monochrom> | I forgot. |
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| 03:04:59 | <falsifian> | RecordDotSyntax sounds like it, or is there something else monochrom? |
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| 03:08:12 | monochrom | proposes RecordCryptoHashSyntax for this Apirl 1st. |
| 03:10:15 | <xsperry> | RecordDotSyntax is coming soon? |
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| 03:18:16 | <nshepperd2> | it looks like RecordDotSyntax is likely to be in 9.2, but it's not merged yet, so it might not https://www.mail-archive.com/ghc-devs@haskell.org/msg19249.html |
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| 03:58:59 | <c_wraith> | monochrom: I'm all-in on DuplicateRecordFields, NoFieldSelectors, and OverloadedLabels. RecordDotSyntax seems like a mess that I don't need |
| 03:59:33 | <c_wraith> | Seriously, why . of all things? It has too many different meanings already |
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| 04:01:54 | <rednaZ[m]> | I second this. |
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| 04:29:36 | <Xnuk> | let's do `import Prelude hiding ((.))` |
| 04:31:23 | <boxscape> | % let f ∘ g = \x -> f (g x) |
| 04:31:24 | <yahb> | boxscape: |
| 04:31:47 | <Xnuk> | :t (<<<) |
| 04:31:49 | <lambdabot> | forall k (cat :: k -> k -> *) (b :: k) (c :: k) (a :: k). Category cat => cat b c -> cat a b -> cat a c |
| 04:31:50 | <nshepperd2> | our keyboards need more symbols |
| 04:32:24 | <Xnuk> | >> (/2) <<< (+1) $ 10 |
| 04:32:29 | <Xnuk> | > (/2) <<< (+1) $ 10 |
| 04:32:30 | <lambdabot> | 5.5 |
| 04:34:06 | <Xnuk> | :t ((.).(.)) (($).($)) ((.)$(.)) |
| 04:34:07 | <lambdabot> | (a1 -> b -> c) -> a1 -> (a2 -> b) -> a2 -> c |
| 04:35:54 | <nshepperd2> | trouble is, every symbol on a standard us keyboard is either used for some other ghc syntax already, or defined as an operator by some user |
| 04:36:09 | <nshepperd2> | except possibly ` |
| 04:36:09 | <boxscape> | just make your operators twice as long |
| 04:36:37 | <nshepperd2> | -XRecordBacktickSyntax foo`x`y`z |
| 04:36:48 | <dolio> | Backticks are already syntax. |
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| 04:37:58 | <boxscape> | but . is also already defined as an operator, so that by itself doesn't disqualify a symbol |
| 04:38:16 | <nshepperd2> | oh yeah they are |
| 04:38:30 | <nshepperd2> | i forgot about zip`ap`tail |
| 04:38:57 | <dolio> | -> wasn't taken as a term level infix operator. |
| 04:40:12 | <boxscape> | I wonder if you could make ; work for records without breaking explicit layout too much |
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| 04:43:44 | <nshepperd2> | -> is used for ViewPatterns but that's probably less of a conflict than . |
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| 04:46:39 | <nshepperd2> | https://github.com/nshepperd/cabbage i made a package manager |
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| 05:03:49 | <olligobber> | :t (.).(.) |
| 05:03:50 | <lambdabot> | (b -> c) -> (a1 -> a2 -> b) -> a1 -> a2 -> c |
| 05:04:00 | <olligobber> | huh |
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| 05:05:50 | <boxscape> | olligobber it's a specialized version of (fmap . fmap) which let's you go two functors deep, in this case the (r ->) functor |
| 05:06:13 | <olligobber> | :t fmap . fmap |
| 05:06:14 | <lambdabot> | (Functor f1, Functor f2) => (a -> b) -> f1 (f2 a) -> f1 (f2 b) |
| 05:06:24 | <olligobber> | ah I see |
| 05:08:05 | <d34df00d> | Last time I did binary (de)serialization, cereal was the library of choice. Is that still the case, or are there any other libraries worth checking out? |
| 05:08:21 | <olligobber> | nshepperd, huh, if I hadn't just learned how to use cabal I might consider using that |
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| 05:13:19 | <nshepperd2> | i think it's mainly complementary to cabal |
| 05:14:58 | <dolio> | d34df00d: I think cereal is no longer the library of choice. |
| 05:14:59 | <nshepperd2> | it fills in the gap where you want to 'install' some libraries globally so that you can use them when you open a ghci repl (I use ghci as a calculator pretty much constantly) or want to run some quickly written .hs program without making a whole cabal project |
| 05:15:22 | <nshepperd2> | cabal by itself doesn't really support that |
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| 05:18:57 | <d34df00d> | dolio: what would you recommend instead? |
| 05:21:31 | <dolio> | I'm no expert, but my recollection is that binary added the distinct things that cereal had, and cereal is no longer really developed. |
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| 05:22:01 | <dolio> | But also, depending on your use case, it might be good not to use binary either, and use the newer thing based on CBOR. |
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| 05:23:36 | <dolio> | I guess that's cborg. |
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| 05:29:35 | <d34df00d> | I just want to parse jpeg files into something reasonable just for lulz. |
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| 05:40:09 | <nshepperd2> | if you're parsing existing formats, use binary. if you're serialising stuff as your own format, use serialise/cborg |
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| 05:46:52 | <d34df00d> | binary it is then! |
| 05:46:53 | <d34df00d> | Thanks! |
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| 07:06:58 | <edwardk> | i now have my unlifted project building all the 2-ary representations... it takes 20 minutes or so to build on my macbook pro. maybe i should leave that option off by default. ;) |
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| 07:11:06 | <edwardk> | at the very least until Ericson2314 's patch to make backpack build with -j goes in! |
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| 07:14:00 | <MarcelineVQ> | you've gone mad with power |
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| 07:21:14 | <edwardk> | rebuilding, it appears 20 minutes was a low estimate |
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| 07:21:48 | <edwardk> | does anyone know off hand the time limit on github-ci actions? |
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| 07:22:23 | <edwardk> | /Users/ekmett/.ghcup/bin/ghc: createProcess: runInteractiveProcess: exec: resource exhausted (Argument list too long) |
| 07:22:25 | <edwardk> | oof |
| 07:22:36 | <edwardk> | that may be more problematic than anything else |
| 07:23:21 | <koz_> | edwardk: 72 hours. |
| 07:23:36 | <koz_> | Oh wait, never mind, not 72. |
| 07:23:44 | <koz_> | 6 hours. |
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| 07:24:23 | <edwardk> | it finished building everything then went to put it together and died. |
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| 07:26:01 | <mniip> | edwardk, imagine the hackage docs |
| 07:26:15 | <edwardk> | that was why i was building it =) |
| 07:26:26 | <edwardk> | i mean its not _much_ worse here than my gl package |
| 07:26:31 | <edwardk> | and that still builds |
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| 07:30:27 | <mniip> | edwardk, how fixed is the list of reps? |
| 07:30:48 | <mniip> | could you perhaps collapse one of the layers of the hierarchy |
| 07:31:48 | <mniip> | hmm, but that loses you that backpack orphan instance handling quirk |
| 07:31:52 | <edwardk> | yeah |
| 07:31:55 | <edwardk> | exactly |
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| 07:32:22 | <edwardk> | and i really would _like_ to handle 2-tuples properly because then i can handle Maybe# and the like |
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| 07:32:57 | <edwardk> | and (# State# s, a #) -- for a :: TYPE r |
| 07:33:33 | <edwardk> | but losing 30+ minutes to mostly compile then crashing at the end because of command line length to ghc is kinda frustrating |
| 07:33:57 | <edwardk> | i thought we'd fixed the ghc <-> cabal command line length issue back when i shipped 'gl' but apparently not |
| 07:34:28 | <mniip> | what's your `getconf ARG_MAX` say |
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| 07:35:39 | <mniip> | it's 2MB on my system and if cabal is trying to pass in 2000 full pathnames I could see that being exhausted |
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| 07:36:36 | <mniip> | solution: build in / |
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| 07:38:01 | <olligobber> | hmm, haskell's type inference isn't as powerful as I thought |
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| 07:38:31 | <[exa]> | olligobber: with great power comes great undecidability |
| 07:38:49 | <olligobber> | I can just add in type annotations I guess |
| 07:40:09 | <[exa]> | olligobber: any specific problem btw? |
| 07:40:34 | <nshepperd2> | 'building all the 2-ary representations' sounds concerning, what does that mean |
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| 07:41:58 | <edwardk> | mniip: 262144 |
| 07:42:09 | <mniip> | why is it so small :( |
| 07:42:13 | <edwardk> | osx |
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| 07:43:43 | <mniip> | nshepperd2, [TupleRep [r1, r2] | r1 <- primitiveReps, r2 <- primitiveReps] |
| 07:43:46 | <mniip> | except backpack |
| 07:44:45 | <edwardk> | nshepperd2: https://github.com/ekmett/unboxed/blob/main/unboxed.cabal#L191 |
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| 07:45:21 | <edwardk> | the code from there to the end is what breaks |
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| 07:46:59 | <edwardk> | building in the root doesn't help, btw =) |
| 07:47:11 | <edwardk> | /Users/ekmett/unboxed/dist-newstyle/build/x86_64-osx/ghc-9.0.1/unboxed-0.2/l/consdef/unboxed-0.2-inplace-consdef+3tP2tTLTg5qEHov4661Voa/build/unboxed-0.2-inplace-consdef+3tP2tTLTg5qEHov4661Voa/autogen/H.hsig -- most of that is under dist-newstyle |
| 07:47:16 | <boxscape> | Is the only way to get a type with a kind like `TYPE (TupleRep [LiftedRep, IntRep])` to define a custom type with that kind? |
| 07:47:19 | <nshepperd2> | so, defining a sum and product datatype for every combination of two unlifted typereps? |
| 07:47:35 | <edwardk> | :k (# 4, 3# #) |
| 07:47:37 | <lambdabot> | error: Operator applied to too few arguments: # |
| 07:47:49 | <mniip> | % :k (# 4, 3# #) |
| 07:47:49 | <yahb> | mniip: ; <interactive>:1:7: error: parse error on input `3#' |
| 07:48:05 | <mniip> | % :set -XMagicHash -XUnboxedTuples |
| 07:48:05 | <yahb> | mniip: |
| 07:48:06 | <mniip> | % :k (# 4, 3# #) |
| 07:48:07 | <yahb> | mniip: ; <interactive>:1:7: error: parse error on input `3#' |
| 07:48:12 | <mniip> | er |
| 07:48:15 | <mniip> | of course, that's a term |
| 07:48:24 | <mniip> | % :k (# Int, Int# #) |
| 07:48:25 | <yahb> | mniip: TYPE ('TupleRep '[ 'LiftedRep, 'GHC.Exts.IntRep]) |
| 07:48:25 | <edwardk> | anyways that lives in that type |
| 07:48:31 | <boxscape> | ah, thanks |
| 07:48:33 | <edwardk> | % :t (# 4, 3# #) |
| 07:48:33 | <yahb> | edwardk: Num a => (# a, Int# #) |
| 07:48:39 | <edwardk> | % :t (# 4 :: Int, 3# #) |
| 07:48:39 | <yahb> | edwardk: (# Int, Int# #) |
| 07:48:54 | <edwardk> | % :k (# Int, Int# #) |
| 07:48:54 | <yahb> | edwardk: TYPE ('TupleRep '[ 'LiftedRep, 'GHC.Exts.IntRep]) |
| 07:48:57 | <edwardk> | thank you =) |
| 07:49:06 | <boxscape> | -.- right I tried :k forall a . Num a => (# a, Int# #) but of course that's * because it's a function |
| 07:49:15 | <edwardk> | yeah |
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| 07:49:20 | <edwardk> | thats the trick that backs my Lev trick |
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| 07:49:36 | <edwardk> | type Lev (a :: TYPE r) = ()~() => a -- lives in Type even when a lives in TYPE r |
| 07:49:48 | <boxscape> | Oh, Isee |
| 07:50:12 | <boxscape> | I saw Iceland_Jack posting that on twitter |
| 07:50:34 | <mniip> | that does involve boxing a pretty much |
| 07:50:47 | <mniip> | except not as a data closure |
| 07:53:11 | <edwardk> | yeah |
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| 07:53:29 | <edwardk> | boxscape: yeah i was infodumping code on him the other night |
| 07:53:35 | <boxscape> | haha I see |
| 07:54:08 | <edwardk> | we were trying to find _any_ way we could to trick ghc into allowing me to have the kind of Functor I want without having to fix a bug left in levity polymorphism |
| 07:56:23 | <nshepperd2> | that's pretty spooky |
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| 07:58:40 | <edwardk> | holy cow i got it to work and i don't know why |
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| 08:00:19 | <tdammers> | sounds like programming in clojure |
| 08:01:25 | <edwardk> | oof |
| 08:01:32 | <edwardk> | guess i still can't turn on -fobject-code |
| 08:01:39 | <edwardk> | ghci starts spitting out: clang: error: unable to execute command: posix_spawn failed: Argument list too long |
| 08:02:36 | <edwardk> | i'm mostly sad because if i ever have to write something that takes 2 levity-polymorphic arguments i'll be stuck with the same size issues. |
| 08:02:40 | <edwardk> | e.g. State s a |
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| 08:05:21 | <jhrcek> | Hello @hvr, not sure if you saw this already, but could you please check this PR? https://github.com/haskell-hvr/base-noprelude/pull/13 |
| 08:05:56 | <jhrcek> | Having this released on hackage would make our migration to ghc 8.10.4 more pleasant :) |
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| 08:25:50 | <olligobber> | merijn, https://github.com/merijn/validated-literals/issues/4 |
| 08:25:55 | <olligobber> | I found a thing |
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| 08:26:20 | <merijn> | olligobber: I saw that, but that seems more likely to be a ghci bug? |
| 08:26:32 | <olligobber> | probably |
| 08:26:51 | <merijn> | Probably some weirdness with how ghci accepts both Show values and IO interacting |
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| 08:27:22 | <merijn> | because clearly it's *not* compiling and running the print |
| 08:27:31 | <olligobber> | yeah |
| 08:28:39 | <olligobber> | though `print $undefined` errors properly |
| 08:29:34 | <olligobber> | ah, but `print ($$undefined :: String)` does not error |
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| 08:29:54 | <merijn> | Whoo! Sounds like "not my problem"! ;) |
| 08:30:18 | <olligobber> | guess I'll submit a bug report to haskell |
| 08:31:33 | <olligobber> | or is it a template haskell issue? |
| 08:31:44 | <merijn> | "Yes" ;) |
| 08:32:02 | <merijn> | Sounds like there's an issue with typed TH and ghci? |
| 08:32:16 | <olligobber> | yeah |
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| 08:51:03 | <kumo> | b |
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| 08:55:06 | <kenran> | Why is it that after doing a "cabal build all", a "cabal --enable-documentation build all" just ends with "up to date"? I'd like to somehow force documentation creation with a flag. Is that possible other than doing a "cabal clean" beforehand? |
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| 08:56:09 | <kenran> | (I'd like to get rid of the "documentation: True" in my cabal.project) |
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| 09:16:20 | <merijn> | kenran: Use "cabal haddock"? |
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| 09:17:44 | <merijn> | kenran: I mean, "build" builds the code, so if nothing changed it doesn't have to rebuild. The fact that it generates docs too with --enable-documentation isn't really handled, because "cabal haddock" is the intended command for generating documentation |
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| 09:23:08 | <kenran> | merijn: It's been a long time since I've tried, but last time I couldn't get my use case to run with cabal haddock (it's a multi-package project). I think I couldn't get it to create a "global" index.html. But I'll try again maybe, thanks! |
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| 09:23:56 | <merijn> | kenran: Ah, yeah, that's a pet peeve of mine too, I don't think that's really well supported atm |
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| 09:31:00 | <olligobber> | merijn, reported! https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/19470 |
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| 09:31:57 | <kenran> | merijn: Ok, then I'm not alone there :) So it'll have to be "make docs" which does "cabal clean && cabal --enable-documentation build" together with the hacky stuff for now. |
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| 09:35:26 | <dminuoso> | merijn: Perhaps `--enable-documentation` should be removed then. |
| 09:35:36 | <merijn> | kenran: It's a game of chicken of "who gets sufficiently annoyed by this to fix it" ;) |
| 09:35:43 | <dminuoso> | It's not as if `cabal build && cabal haddock` is too much to ask for in a CI script.. |
| 09:35:53 | <merijn> | dminuoso: --enable-documentation is global and enables documentation of your dependencies |
| 09:35:57 | <dminuoso> | Oh |
| 09:36:33 | <merijn> | dminuoso: The distinction between "global" and "local" flags needs work too |
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| 09:38:50 | <merijn> | #BeTheChangeYouWannaSee ;) |
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| 09:43:12 | <dminuoso> | Think that's 4 characters too long. :> |
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| 10:18:43 | <ggVGc> | merijn: I can happily announce I moved my project to cabal-install yesterday, and rebuilds are definitey faster to start up. Thanks! |
| 10:20:22 | <maerwald> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hackage-security-0.6.0.1/docs/Hackage-Security-Client.html#v:checkForUpdates doh... why is TUF implementation intertwined with hackage repos? |
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| 10:27:19 | <mniip> | huh |
| 10:27:24 | <mniip> | tunes.org -> NXDOMAIN |
| 10:28:22 | <rond_> | Hi! How to interpret "readFile :: FilePath -> IO String" ? Is it "given a `FilePath`, return an `IO String` monad - so a string in a wrapper that you can >>unpack/use<< later on? |
| 10:29:31 | <dminuoso> | rond_: One mind-model that I like to use, is to think of `IO String` as "a list of assembly instructions, that if executed, would give you a string" |
| 10:29:54 | <maerwald> | rond_: https://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/IO.xhtml |
| 10:29:55 | <dminuoso> | (It's not really true, but it might help conceptualize how IO is used) |
| 10:30:01 | <maerwald> | rond_: https://www.cis.upenn.edu/~cis194/spring13/lectures/08-IO.html |
| 10:30:03 | <maerwald> | read those |
| 10:30:07 | <maerwald> | then come back :) |
| 10:30:28 | <dminuoso> | mniip: Get a different recursor. |
| 10:30:48 | <mniip> | 8.8.8.8 says so |
| 10:30:58 | <dminuoso> | Maybe you have a stale cache |
| 10:31:10 | <tomsmeding> | mniip: 8.8.8.8 doesn't :p |
| 10:31:15 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: for you, anyhow |
| 10:31:21 | <dminuoso> | 8.8.8.8 is likely anycasted |
| 10:31:28 | <tomsmeding> | fair point |
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| 10:33:13 | <rond_> | Alright! I might have one more question before I begin my reading session:) Would any of you recommend a good resource for learning haskell? My background: pretty solid fundamentals in computer science, imperative/OOP programming; some experience with OCaml (so I'm not a total newbie when it comes to FP - however, I'd rather have a thorough |
| 10:33:14 | <rond_> | resource that explains some trivial things twice rather than omit some things that I might miss) |
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| 10:33:34 | <maerwald> | rond_: https://www.cis.upenn.edu/~cis194/spring13/ |
| 10:35:14 | <dminuoso> | There's also a newer version of CIS194 that I favour https://www.seas.upenn.edu/~cis194/fall16/ |
| 10:35:19 | <dminuoso> | Both are great choices, though. |
| 10:35:34 | <mniip> | dminuoso, https://www.whatsmydns.net/#A/tunes.org |
| 10:36:24 | <dminuoso> | mniip: I just recursed manually, its fine for me. |
| 10:36:38 | <dminuoso> | Perhaps someone made a DNS mistake and it propagated |
| 10:36:42 | <dminuoso> | But it seems fixed now |
| 10:36:56 | <dminuoso> | https://gist.github.com/dminuoso/8f90b49eb7817485a6fd9cda0843d99c |
| 10:37:46 | <mniip> | https://gist.github.com/mniip/1494e4263e02bef659be1111a3b861fe |
| 10:38:26 | <dminuoso> | That is truly curious |
| 10:39:06 | <dminuoso> | Is "no more" really the error there? |
| 10:39:14 | <mniip> | yes |
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| 10:40:17 | <mniip> | maybe sounds like messed up glue records |
| 10:40:31 | <mniip> | and some recursors were lucky enough to remember the A for the nameservers? |
| 10:40:38 | <mniip> | (I don't actually know DNS) |
| 10:40:45 | <rond_> | Thank you for the links! Last but not least - any online website that has some excercies to pratice Haskell? |
| 10:40:50 | <rond_> | practice* |
| 10:40:57 | <dminuoso> | rond_: These resources contain plenty excercises. |
| 10:41:04 | <dminuoso> | Both of them. Pick one though. |
| 10:42:21 | <opqdonut> | rond_: I can also plug my course, which has a big emphasis on exercises: https://haskell.mooc.fi/ |
| 10:42:23 | <Uniaika> | oh, nomeata is teaching CIS194 |
| 10:42:29 | <Uniaika> | nice |
| 10:43:04 | <rond_> | Sure, but I won't be able to use automatic verifiers that their student are able to, right? Hence, no straight-forward way to make sure my code works as intended...? |
| 10:43:19 | <dminuoso> | rond_: The excercises are easy to verify yourself. |
| 10:44:27 | <dminuoso> | mniip: Can you re-run with `dig tunes.org +trace +additional` ? |
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| 10:44:40 | <dminuoso> | Im thinking you're somehow not getting glue records for {ab}.ns.tunes.org |
| 10:45:19 | <mniip> | https://gist.github.com/mniip/1494e4263e02bef659be1111a3b861fe |
| 10:45:42 | <rond_> | opqdonut Nice! I see that there are "submit" "results" pages. Will I be able to use them given that I'm not a student of University of Helsinki ? |
| 10:46:02 | <rond_> | dminuoso Okay, that' good to know. I'll bear it in mind. |
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| 10:46:33 | <dminuoso> | mniip: that seems broken. which dig version do you have? |
| 10:46:51 | <dminuoso> | `couldn't get address for 'b.ns.tunes.org': failure` seems like a blatant lie, dig just showed you it got the glue records |
| 10:47:01 | <mniip> | 9.16.11 says right there |
| 10:47:08 | <opqdonut> | rond_: yes, it's completely open |
| 10:47:27 | <opqdonut> | rond_: however you can run the tests that check your answers on your machine too, no need to submit anything if you don't want to |
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| 10:47:34 | <Aleksejs> | hey, are there patterns to match with arithmetic operations? For example, "let foo a b@(a+1)" I want to match that b is equal to a+1 |
| 10:47:45 | <opqdonut> | rond_: everything is in the github repo at https://github.com/moocfi/haskell-mooc |
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| 10:48:53 | <mniip> | dminuoso, 66.114.33.57 is not responding on port 53 |
| 10:49:06 | <rond_> | opqdonut I'm used to online verifiers because of a long tradition of using them in my education:) I'll probably give it a try. Would you recommend going through UPenn course before diving into yours, or would you suggest giving yours a shot immediately? |
| 10:49:57 | <mniip> | dminuoso, https://gist.github.com/mniip/1494e4263e02bef659be1111a3b861fe#file-gistfile2-txt |
| 10:52:31 | <dminuoso> | mniip: Does 66.114.33.57 respond to ICMP echo request? |
| 10:52:50 | <mniip> | yes |
| 10:52:52 | <mniip> | to HTTP even |
| 10:52:55 | <dminuoso> | Strange |
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| 10:53:33 | <dminuoso> | Perhaps there's some fail2ban/DDoS protection that has banned your ip address/AS from DNS on that name server? |
| 10:53:45 | <opqdonut> | rond_: I think they're roughly at the same level, and I obviously think mine is better :P |
| 10:54:08 | <rond_> | opqdonut I wouldn't say that it's an obvious thing:) |
| 10:54:20 | <rond_> | it's good to know though! |
| 10:54:21 | <opqdonut> | I think going through both will probably not be that useful |
| 10:54:34 | <opqdonut> | but perhaps one will have an approach that suits you better so have a look at both |
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| 10:56:21 | <rond_> | Okay! Btw I found a typo: |
| 10:56:21 | <rond_> | "1.3.2 Some History |
| 10:56:22 | <rond_> | A brief timeline of Haskell: |
| 10:56:22 | <rond_> | 1930s: Lamba Calculus" |
| 10:56:23 | <rond_> | (s/Lamba/Lambda/):) |
| 10:56:31 | <Uniaika> | hello there! Do we have a handy way to generate IsLabel instances for a whole record yet? |
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| 10:56:40 | <Uniaika> | or should I manually write them? |
| 10:56:43 | <dminuoso> | mniip: I think this is the only likely explanation. The nameserver itself, or some device in the middle, is blocking your ip address (perhaps the single address, or some block, perhaps the entire AS). Perhaps as a result of some previous DNS reflection attack. |
| 10:57:10 | <dminuoso> | (Well not just the IP address, but just for that port) |
| 10:57:52 | <mniip> | I have like 6 unrelated IPs I could try from |
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| 10:59:12 | <mniip> | dminuoso, are you able to reach the port yourself? |
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| 10:59:46 | <dminuoso> | Yes |
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| 11:15:56 | <opqdonut> | rond_: yeah that's fixed out in master, hasn't yet rolled out to the site |
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| 11:34:21 | <bobiusbillius> | favourite resources for n00bs? |
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| 11:41:06 | <boxscape> | bobiusbillius if you're looking for a book, there's "Haskell Programming from first principles" or "Programming in Haskell". If you're looking for something that's freely available online, there's this course material https://www.seas.upenn.edu/~cis194/spring13/lectures.html |
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| 11:42:39 | <boxscape> | there's also a summary of available resources here https://github.com/bitemyapp/learnhaskell |
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| 11:47:40 | <bobiusbillius> | awesome, thank you, great to see some homework assignments. so far i've been using 'learnyouahaskell', and watching lectures from John Hughes, Scott Wlaschin, and anyone else i can find. |
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| 11:48:48 | <boxscape> | bobiusbillius yeah lack of excercises is one of the biggest problems of learnyouahaskell |
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| 11:49:58 | <merijn> | Anyone else getting PM spam? |
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| 11:50:27 | <boxscape> | who do you even report that something like that to? |
| 11:50:31 | <boxscape> | (but no, I'm not) |
| 11:52:08 | <merijn> | boxscape: Freenode staff. I was doing my lunch walk and had like 10 different people PM me the same copy/paste message about reporting me for harassment, so I figured maybe it was "script kiddie"-o clock again on freenode |
| 11:52:16 | <boxscape> | hm, okay |
| 11:53:19 | <merijn> | Normally they'd PM spam everyone in a channel or something like that |
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| 11:53:51 | <boxscape> | seems you're a lucky winner today |
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| 11:54:37 | <Franciman> | merijn, on #freenode they suggest to set mode +r |
| 11:54:50 | <Franciman> | to get PMs only from registered users |
| 11:55:00 | <Franciman> | sorry +R |
| 11:55:09 | <jess> | we're working on it |
| 11:55:13 | <merijn> | It's not normally an issue, was just curious if it was just me :) |
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| 11:55:46 | <Franciman> | the fun thing is that as soon as I said that |
| 11:55:48 | <Franciman> | I got a PM too |
| 11:55:53 | <merijn> | :p |
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| 11:56:00 | <merijn> | Jinxed yourself! |
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| 12:04:00 | <jess> | let me know if you see more spam |
| 12:04:19 | <ggVGc> | Sometimes I wonder if I should rent an expensive VPS just to build my haskel |
| 12:04:21 | <ggVGc> | l |
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| 12:05:23 | <ggVGc> | Or just bite the bullet and have a desktop again |
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| 12:08:55 | <merijn> | I mean, you wouldn't even need an *expensive* one, just one that's not "the absolute cheapest" |
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| 12:23:16 | <mniip> | ggVGc, just buy a massive laptop |
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| 12:29:36 | <Axman6> | or like a Threadripper |
| 12:29:50 | <ggVGc> | I think you mean a macbook m1 |
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| 12:30:03 | <Axman6> | eh, not yet, but in a year or two definitely |
| 12:30:27 | <Axman6> | they are currently very impressive, but they will be insane in the next few years |
| 12:32:29 | <bobiusbillius> | unless you know you need a fast cpu, you probably don't |
| 12:33:47 | <bobiusbillius> | e.g. i got a sub $100 thinkcentre from ebay, added an ssd, and it's fine for my daily use |
| 12:34:14 | <Axman6> | well we're talking about compiling (I assume Haskell), so all the resources you can get will help |
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| 12:35:36 | <bobiusbillius> | i missed the original post; it obviously depends on what is being compiled. |
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| 12:38:31 | <ggVGc> | I'd argue it doesn't. Every 500ms shaved off a compilation cycle significantly affects how I am able to work on a project. Granted, if it's alread yunder 500ms, then it doesn't matter |
| 12:38:42 | <ggVGc> | but I'd argue very few haskell projects compile under 500ms |
| 12:39:12 | <ggVGc> | if it's so high that 500ms makes no difference, then it's already a terrible time |
| 12:39:28 | <merijn> | ggVGc: ghcide has been neer instant for me even on big projects |
| 12:39:59 | <ggVGc> | but, you can't build and run your project using ghcide, right? |
| 12:40:07 | <ggVGc> | I'm not talking about LSP help |
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| 12:40:33 | <merijn> | Like, incremental rebuilds are easily moving towards 30s - 1.5 minute (depending on where in the graph), but ghcide is still near instant |
| 12:40:40 | <ggVGc> | anyway, my project sucks extra hard since it's a DSL, that generates C++ that I then have to compile... |
| 12:40:43 | <boxscape> | you might be able to run your project in ghci, though it depends on the kind of project it is |
| 12:40:44 | <ggVGc> | so it's 3 compilations |
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| 12:41:05 | <merijn> | ggVGc: No, but the feedback from typechecking is much more important while I code than the time to run it when I finish refactoring |
| 12:41:05 | <ggVGc> | merijn: yeah, that's fair, but I also need the project to run fast |
| 12:41:08 | <ggVGc> | so I can't use ghci |
| 12:41:20 | <merijn> | ggVGc: ghcide doesn't use ghci |
| 12:41:39 | <boxscape> | (think the ghci part was supposed to be a response to me merijn) |
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| 12:42:02 | <merijn> | ggVGc: note that ghcide /= ghcid, with the former being what haskell-language-server builds on |
| 12:43:07 | <ggVGc> | sure, I get what you're saying, and I also use it. But it doesn't help my use case since my "compilation cycle" also includes running the binary |
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| 12:43:42 | <ggVGc> | for normal haskell development I agree, full recompilation time is less important if the IDE help is fast |
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| 12:44:00 | <merijn> | Well, then you're hosed ;) |
| 12:44:10 | <merijn> | But I don't think there's many candidates that are faster :p |
| 12:44:57 | <ggVGc> | this DSL I made agitates me in many ways all the time, but at the same time I don't know how I could have implemented and hav eit be as useful as it is with another tool |
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| 12:45:49 | <ggVGc> | getting all of the lightweight syntax and composition in haskell as the meta-language for it is a huge win |
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| 13:34:59 | <Ericson2314> | edwardk: it finally (!) landed end of last year. Will be out in 9.2 |
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| 13:38:54 | <Xenosi> | Hello! I have a question about Template Haskell and someone told me to ask it here, is that OK? |
| 13:39:13 | <Axman6> | of course |
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| 13:40:17 | <Xenosi> | I am trying to make an Exp from a Bool without using the Q monad |
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| 13:40:39 | <Xenosi> | Because I get staging errors when I try to splice it using the Q monad |
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| 13:41:17 | <Xenosi> | The problem is, I can only seem to find Literal constructors for Characters, Integers and strings |
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| 13:44:08 | <ij> | Could Storable instead of Unboxed improve performance, because GC doesn't move it and void memory cache? |
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| 13:46:20 | <merijn> | ij: Storable can improve things because you can do AoS, rather than SoA (as Unboxed enforced) |
| 13:46:35 | <ij> | because of locality? |
| 13:47:05 | <ij> | and because assembling the structure is faster? |
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| 13:47:19 | <ij> | or do you not even need to assemble it, just copy |
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| 13:49:08 | <ij> | no, they're not just copied according to docs below "class Storable" |
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| 13:59:44 | <ij> | merijn, so, is it because of locality or is there something else? |
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| 14:03:27 | <dminuoso> | ij: Well sure, it has different locality. |
| 14:03:51 | <dminuoso> | If you want to traverse data, then AoS is more efficient since you can fit more per cache line |
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| 14:04:28 | <dminuoso> | On some numerical calculations SoA can be more efficient if you leverage SIMD a lot (which in GHC Haskell requires manual use of SIMD primops) |
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| 14:04:49 | <dminuoso> | The advantage depends on the usage pattern |
| 14:04:54 | <ij> | right, it depends :/ |
| 14:05:00 | <dminuoso> | There's also a third option |
| 14:05:05 | <ij> | I am just blindsighted by the fact that I know what the usecase is going to be |
| 14:05:31 | <dminuoso> | You can keep *both* representations around. |
| 14:05:57 | <dminuoso> | Or do something like AoSoA, which is best done with Storable I guess. |
| 14:06:06 | <dminuoso> | (Or unboxed + storable) |
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| 14:06:58 | <Cale> | Xenosi: There's nothing special about True and False, they're data constructors like any others. So you want ConE |
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| 14:07:34 | <ij> | dminuoso, cool, though I don't need such exoticity yet :) dminuoso, merijn, thank you |
| 14:07:36 | <Cale> | ConE 'True and ConE 'False |
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| 14:09:01 | <Xenosi> | Cale: Thank you, I was looking too far it seems |
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| 14:39:03 | <perrier-jouet> | is it ok to install all haskell packages globally or per project basis ? |
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| 14:39:21 | <merijn> | perrier-jouet: Which tool are you using? |
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| 14:40:52 | <merijn> | perrier-jouet: cabal automatically handles conflicting global installs (it supports arbitrarily many conflicting installs of the same package and automatically provides projects with a consistent view) |
| 14:41:23 | <merijn> | perrier-jouet: stack otoh sandboxes per snapshot and only exposes packages from a single snapshot to a project |
| 14:41:37 | <merijn> | So either way there's not really a thing like "per project" or "global" |
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| 14:53:14 | <Franciman> | stack is slow |
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| 14:54:00 | <maerwald> | Franciman: in what way? |
| 14:54:19 | <maerwald> | many operations are faster than cabal (except the thing where it downloads GHC all the time) |
| 14:54:28 | <Franciman> | I changed lts version, it is compiling the whole hackage, it seems |
| 14:54:35 | <Franciman> | and yes it is downloading a new ghc |
| 14:54:36 | <maerwald> | that's expected |
| 14:55:15 | <maerwald> | `stack install` is way faster than `cabal install`, same for stack scripts vs cabal-scripts |
| 14:55:15 | <Franciman> | I am trapped in this piece of software |
| 14:55:40 | <Franciman> | the problem is that it does many things I do not need |
| 14:55:45 | <maerwald> | cabals configure phase and checking caching wastes a lot of time |
| 14:56:15 | <maerwald> | yes, you can stack to shut up and use system ghc |
| 14:56:18 | <maerwald> | *tell |
| 14:57:08 | <Franciman> | oh really? |
| 14:57:08 | <maerwald> | tying GHC version to a set of packages is non-sensical, except for cases where base requires it (rarely), so I tend to just ignore that part |
| 14:57:10 | <maerwald> | yes |
| 14:57:25 | <Franciman> | that's game changing |
| 14:57:26 | <Franciman> | thanks |
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| 15:38:08 | <jil> | hello |
| 15:38:58 | <maralorn> | Does anyone know about a irc/matrix/slack/discord Room where I can ask questions about cardano? |
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| 15:44:10 | <jil> | I know about forum.cardano.org . |
| 15:45:02 | <jil> | Is there a code formatter like black in python for haskell ? Something that indents code, add space in a standard way. |
| 15:45:14 | <maerwald> | standard? |
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| 15:46:23 | <boxscape> | jil there's several, some that come to mind are ormolu, fourmolu, brittany |
| 15:47:49 | <jil> | I use emacs and maybe I could run some of these with a key stroke. Thank you boxscape |
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| 15:51:17 | <jil> | eval s (Var x) = find x s |
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| 16:05:31 | <maralorn> | jil: Thanks. I was there the other day but looking again I found exactly what I wanted to know. |
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| 16:06:45 | <dminuoso> | jil: stylish-haskell also exists |
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| 16:09:56 | <sm[m]> | maralorn: you found the irc channel and matrix room I guess |
| 16:09:59 | <maerwald> | maralorn: what type of question? |
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| 16:12:06 | <sm[m]> | (4 matrix rooms now, actually) |
| 16:13:07 | <maralorn> | maerwald: I was curious about where cardano gets the randomness to select validators. But I found a post in the forum that explains it. |
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| 16:40:24 | <sm[m]> | maralorn: what was the gist of it ? Some kind of seed that's propagated around ? |
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| 16:43:15 | <maralorn> | sm: I think the idea is the following: At the start of each epoch every stakeholder generates a random seed and commits it's hash to chain. After that is locked they all post the random seeds and they get combined to create the seed to determine who validates which slot in that epoch. |
| 16:43:38 | <maralorn> | Because everyone needs to commit their randomness before seeing the randomness of the others no one can hack the process to influence the RNG in their favor. |
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| 16:44:26 | <maralorn> | I may have garbled the exact protocol, but this is the idea in principle. |
| 16:44:29 | <sm[m]> | nice, thanks |
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| 18:29:26 | <ixlun> | Hi all, I've been experimenting with mutable references in haskell and I've got: https://termbin.com/jg6ql . Is there a way I can make both `a' and `b' point to the same object so that mutation through either `a' or `b' is observed by the other IORef? |
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| 18:30:13 | <monochrom> | let b = a |
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| 18:30:34 | <merijn> | ixlun: eh, by not having two IORefs? :p |
| 18:30:40 | <monochrom> | "point to the same object" = aliasing. Definition. |
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| 18:31:19 | <ixlun> | Ahhh, of course! |
| 18:31:31 | ixlun | feels a bit silly for asking that question now! |
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| 18:32:08 | <FortuneZero> | use the same IORef in both places |
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| 18:32:27 | <koz_> | An IORef is essentially a pointer. |
| 18:32:36 | <FortuneZero> | IORef is a pointer to box where the value is stored |
| 18:32:47 | <FortuneZero> | copy the pointer as much as you want |
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| 18:33:56 | <ixlun> | So, I presume that newIORef will create a copy of whatever is being pointed to, even if it's the same object? |
| 18:33:56 | <ixlun> | ind |
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| 18:34:13 | <monochrom> | I don't think that model gets you very far. |
| 18:34:24 | <merijn> | ixlun: Define "same object" |
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| 18:34:36 | <monochrom> | Instead, this model gets you very far, probably all the way down to asm: Each name is a pointer. |
| 18:34:58 | <monochrom> | And an IORef is already the box itself. |
| 18:35:13 | <merijn> | ixlun: newIORef allocates a (mutable) reference (hence, "Ref") to a value. You cannot mutate the values inside, you *can* mutate the reference to point at different values |
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| 18:37:03 | <ixlun> | monochrom: in that case, why doesn't a and b point to the same object? They where both created from the same name, `ourmap'? |
| 18:37:22 | <monochrom> | newIORef creates and returns a brand new box. |
| 18:37:38 | <monochrom> | You call it twice you get two distinct boxes. |
| 18:37:39 | <merijn> | ixlun: They do |
| 18:37:56 | <merijn> | ixlun: But you can't change the object pointed too, you change the pointer |
| 18:38:22 | <merijn> | ixlun: So "pointing at the same object" isn't something you can meaningfully distinguish anyway |
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| 18:38:51 | <ixlun> | Right, okay. so mofiyIORef will change the pointer, *not* the underlying object. |
| 18:38:56 | <merijn> | Yes |
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| 18:40:14 | <ixlun> | Ahh, right, so that's why IORef can point to immutable data, `Map' in this case. |
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| 18:40:31 | <ixlun> | and give the impression of mutation. |
| 18:41:41 | <maralorn> | simonmic: But this also explains why you can only make delegation changes for the second next epoch. Because I assume that the next epoch will be needed to establish the order in the epoch after it. |
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| 18:42:31 | <geekosaur> | channel? |
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| 18:52:59 | <d34df00d> | Alright, I haven't written advanced type-level haskell for a while, so how what's the ghc way to spell out the kind of a type constructor FooType that could be used as `FooType '[ 1, 2, 3 ]`? |
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| 18:53:36 | <d34df00d> | I basically want something like Idris' data FooType : List Nat -> Type where ... |
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| 19:18:42 | <__minoru__shirae> | ixlun: if you want to experiment with mutability, building a gui might be more convenient than using console input-output. You can build simple console-based gui using ansi-terminal package |
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| 19:22:53 | <__minoru__shirae> | the simplest gui could be something like "x = 1, y = 2, press e to enter edit mode, press q to quit" |
| 19:23:15 | <monochrom> | That seems more like a huge distraction and yak shaving than conveniece to me. |
| 19:24:12 | <__minoru__shirae> | but once you're done with the yak shaving you have a neat interface that shows you all the values at once |
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| 19:24:24 | <monochrom> | I got much more mileage by just writing the same kind of 10-line toy programs ixlun wrote. |
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| 19:25:37 | <__minoru__shirae> | and you can handle arrow button press events |
| 19:26:12 | <__minoru__shirae> | and then for example incrementing a value becomes easier |
| 19:26:30 | <__minoru__shirae> | you don't have to type a new value, you just press "up" |
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| 19:27:29 | <monochrom> | The reason the frugal "dry" "dull" approach works is because there is not much to understand and experiment with mutability. |
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| 19:28:10 | <monochrom> | There are about 5 well-designed toy programs that answer all questions. |
| 19:28:28 | <monochrom> | Beyond that it's just addiction. |
| 19:29:51 | <__minoru__shirae> | this is the first time I hear about 5 toy programs that answer all questions about mutability |
| 19:30:10 | <monochrom> | Well, OK, just IORef. |
| 19:30:19 | <__minoru__shirae> | how do I find them? can you give me some keywords? |
| 19:30:47 | <__minoru__shirae> | oh, ok |
| 19:30:58 | <__minoru__shirae> | but anyway, links would be appreciated |
| 19:32:39 | <monochrom> | https://termbin.com/jg6ql for starter? I.e., the original one that started the discussion. |
| 19:33:30 | <monochrom> | This one asks whether "newIORef ourmap" converts ourmap to a mutable thing or it's an entirely different model. |
| 19:33:55 | <monochrom> | I don't see how GUIizing it adds any value then a simple init-then-print. |
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| 19:34:37 | <monochrom> | I don't see how "press f to increment" answers the really important questions like this one. |
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| 19:34:51 | <__minoru__shirae> | one note: handling arrow button press events doesn't depend on the ansi-terminal package, you can do that with no dependency at all. you need to disable buffering when reading from console. see https://stackoverflow.com/a/38553473/8569383 |
| 19:35:02 | <monochrom> | But eye candies and indulgence, sure. |
| 19:36:33 | <boxscape> | d34df00d you should be able to translate that quite literally, `data FooType :: [Nat] -> Type where ...` |
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| 19:38:18 | <__minoru__shirae> | monochrom: I mean, when you experiment with mutability, I expect later experiments to gradually become more complex |
| 19:38:39 | <__minoru__shirae> | and gui might be helpful in those cases |
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| 19:39:54 | <__minoru__shirae> | when you want to see how values change in real time |
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| 19:46:17 | <monochrom> | That sounds speculative not evidenced. |
| 19:46:50 | <__minoru__shirae> | yeah, that's subjective anyway |
| 19:47:20 | <monochrom> | No. You're mistaking speculative for subjective. |
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| 19:48:14 | <__minoru__shirae> | for me, it is more convenient to imagine a gui when experimenting with mutability, it gives a new perspective. And from that perspective, I can ask new questions, or can come up with new ideas. |
| 19:48:39 | <monochrom> | "Does music help you code?" is subjective, it works differently for different people. "I say that music helps coding for 85% of programmers" that's speculative, I have no evidence, I made it up. |
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| 19:50:07 | <koz_> | I wanna say 'not a Monad' in adjectival form. Best I can come up with is 'sub-Monadic'. Does anyoen have a better form for this? |
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| 19:50:31 | <__minoru__shirae> | and sometimes it is hard to come up with an idea of a console application with no gui |
| 19:50:42 | <monochrom> | non-monadic? |
| 19:51:02 | <dolio> | 'Sub' sounds like it could give the wrong impression. |
| 19:51:12 | <__minoru__shirae> | koz_: non-monadic? |
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| 19:51:31 | <koz_> | Non-monadic could work, but still feels a bit ehh. |
| 19:51:41 | <koz_> | dolio: In what way? |
| 19:51:42 | <monochrom> | I know. |
| 19:52:05 | <monochrom> | I would try avoiding adjective first. |
| 19:52:24 | <monochrom> | But English is fundamentally broken in the first place. |
| 19:53:13 | <koz_> | monochrom: Yes, but I can't fix that much legacy. |
| 19:53:28 | <dolio> | koz_: It might suggest the same thing as subset, subgroup, etc. |
| 19:53:49 | <monochrom> | In Chinese you just do "not monad" for the noun and "not monadic" for the adjective. It's a pretty concatenative language. I heard German is too... |
| 19:53:50 | <dolio> | I.E. a monad that is somehow a substructure of another monad. |
| 19:54:14 | <koz_> | Also dolio: What would a free Traversable look like? By which I mean some 'Trav f a' such that 'Traversable (Trav f)' for any f? |
| 19:54:19 | <koz_> | dolio: Yeah, fair point. |
| 19:54:55 | <dolio> | I think that's called `Bazaar` in lens. |
| 19:55:25 | <koz_> | dolio: Wait, _that_ is what Bazaar is? |
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| 19:55:49 | <dolio> | :) |
| 19:55:58 | <monochrom> | I face similar hurdle with "not regular". That one is easier, "non-regular" seems to work OK. It's why I try "non-monadic". |
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| 19:56:19 | <koz_> | dolio: But it doesn't have that instance. |
| 19:57:10 | <d34df00d> | boxscape: right, thanks! I had an extra tick that broke things (that is, '[Nat] -> Type). |
| 19:57:11 | <dolio> | It might be too parameterized. |
| 19:57:23 | <boxscape> | understandable |
| 19:57:46 | <__minoru__shirae> | maybe a category theory can provide an insight. like, if it's not a monad, then what is it? a functor, applicative, or maybe some term I don't know |
| 19:57:59 | <dolio> | Anyhow, it would be very similar to Bazaar. |
| 19:58:24 | <koz_> | __minoru__shirae: It could be Applicative. It could also be a bunch of other things. |
| 19:58:33 | <koz_> | Hence why I'm not 'pinning' it to any of the above. |
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| 20:04:36 | <dminuoso> | monochrom: By the way, it's called agglutinative not concatenative. :) |
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| 20:04:58 | monochrom | cries |
| 20:05:04 | <dminuoso> | And in German the example only works for adjectives "nicht monadisch", for nouns I don't think there's an equivalent way |
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| 20:05:34 | <dminuoso> | Unmonade perhaps? But that sounds really awkward. |
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| 20:06:10 | <monochrom> | Unmonads doubleplusplus ungood. |
| 20:06:25 | <dolio> | What's the explanation for stuff like "entscheidungsproblem" then? |
| 20:07:02 | <dolio> | Or nullstellensatz. |
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| 20:07:08 | <monochrom> | Perhaps "unmonadic" works. |
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| 20:07:27 | <boxscape> | dolio I think the caveat was specifically that there's no good translation for the "non-" prefix |
| 20:07:33 | <dminuoso> | dolio: We can agglutinate nouns just fine, but the noun version of "non-monadic" there's no noun for "non" |
| 20:07:41 | <dolio> | Oh I see. |
| 20:08:16 | <monochrom> | When a language is not recognizable (recognizable = semi-decidable), I am really tempted to say "unrecognizable", but it sounds more like a joke than serious. |
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| 20:08:27 | <dminuoso> | (And we can agglutinate adjectives with nouns too, but "nicht monadisch" is not a single adjective, so it doesnt work) |
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| 20:09:32 | <dminuoso> | Like Kleinformat (= small format) |
| 20:09:47 | <monochrom> | Wait, you don't add "un" to "m". You add "im". "immonadic"... |
| 20:10:09 | <boxscape> | nonimmonadic |
| 20:10:11 | <dolio> | I have to say, it seems like German mathematicians were good at naming their stuff, but then people that spoke other languages just used the German words instead of using the same approach. |
| 20:10:14 | <dminuoso> | monochrom: Yeah, I suppose that's the latin origin there. In German that becomes `un` |
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| 20:10:26 | <monochrom> | immonadic immobile immu calculus |
| 20:11:13 | <monochrom> | Yeah eigenvalues instead of characteristic values. Then again "eigen" is shorter so meh. |
| 20:11:30 | <boxscape> | to be fair "zero position sentence" just doesn't have the same ring to it as nullstellensatz |
| 20:12:23 | <monochrom> | ooohhhh is that what the movie title "the zero theorem" trying to say... |
| 20:12:35 | <dminuoso> | Mmm, "eigen" is a strange prefix here. Id have to look into old dictionaries, but I dont associate it with "characteristic" |
| 20:13:35 | <monochrom> | OK, I googled "eigen", got "own", "inherent" "peculiar". |
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| 20:14:21 | <dolio> | It's a bit of a stretch. |
| 20:15:39 | <monochrom> | I think it was wise to keep "eigen" in English and not bother translate it. It doesn't look like any translation preserves the spirit. :) |
| 20:15:55 | <dminuoso> | Mmm, as far as I can make it out, Hilbert chose that prefix without any justification. |
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| 20:17:00 | <monochrom> | I wanted to say "Hilbert made it up" back when "entscheidungsproblem" was brought up. Now I know I'm right, he made up all of the above. :) |
| 20:17:20 | <dolio> | Yeah, maybe it was just Hilbert. |
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| 20:17:38 | <dolio> | Giving things names that at least somewhat describe them. :) |
| 20:18:23 | <dminuoso> | I guess at the end this is exactly how language evolve. Every time you find something new, you either have to reuse an existing term and stretch its definition (or change it), or you try and find some compound of existing terms to describe it. |
| 20:18:35 | <dminuoso> | Either way, the act of coining a term is partly how language evolves. |
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| 20:20:02 | <geekosaur> | not sure I count this as part of language evolution given that there are very few places where I encounter "eigenvalue" etc. :) |
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| 20:21:43 | <pjb> | This is jargon. It doesn't matter what word is used. It's probably better to use a foreign word, since this let us avoid overloading a known word. |
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| 20:22:20 | <dminuoso> | pjb: Except for the people from that foreign country. :) |
| 20:22:31 | <pjb> | Of course :-) |
| 20:22:54 | <dminuoso> | Perhaps that would make a case for dead languages like latin to be used instead. |
| 20:22:56 | <dminuoso> | Nobody to offend. |
| 20:23:12 | <monochrom> | There is an smbc for that. :) |
| 20:23:28 | <pjb> | Latin is a live and official language of the Vatican. |
| 20:23:39 | <monochrom> | https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/doctor-2 |
| 20:23:43 | <dminuoso> | pjb: Good thing they're not concerned with science, eh? |
| 20:23:49 | <boxscape> | googel translate says "eigenwert" in latin is "dignitate" |
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| 20:24:01 | <boxscape> | oh that's like |
| 20:24:05 | <boxscape> | self-worth |
| 20:24:06 | <pjb> | dminuoso: but they are. |
| 20:24:20 | <boxscape> | dignity |
| 20:24:59 | <dminuoso> | boxscape: Mmm, going from eigenwert to selbstwert is very strange. Perhaps this is a flaky neural network artifact? |
| 20:25:11 | <dminuoso> | (Because I can see how someone would translate it like that.. it |
| 20:25:12 | <boxscape> | could be, yeah. It doesn't have anything for eigenvalue |
| 20:25:15 | <dminuoso> | 's just wrong) |
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| 20:25:51 | <pjb> | dminuoso: remember Galileo, Bruno, Georges Lemaître, etc, etc were all catholic priests or subventionned by the catholic church (and hence the requirement to remain chaste, which Galileo didn't respect, and which lead him to judicial problems (it wasn't only the cosmology). |
| 20:26:09 | <dminuoso> | pjb: Sure, but none of that still applies today. |
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| 20:26:22 | <dminuoso> | Modern scientists are not required to be catholic priests anymore. |
| 20:26:35 | <pjb> | Copernicus was Catholic canon. |
| 20:26:59 | <pjb> | dminuoso: no, but there are still a lot of priests who are scientists. |
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| 20:27:57 | <maerwald> | Do you have to be a priest to write haskell? |
| 20:28:03 | <boxscape> | yes |
| 20:28:21 | <pjb> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Catholic_clergy_scientists |
| 20:28:32 | <geekosaur> | this may explain a few things… |
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| 20:29:23 | <__minoru__shirae> | maerwald: "Do you have to be a priest to write haskell?" lol, make lambdabot remember this phrase |
| 20:29:27 | <monochrom> | Galileo was not a priest. |
| 20:29:28 | <int-e> | you don't actually need to study the scriptures (writings of Church) to code Haskell |
| 20:30:03 | <boxscape> | I was waiting for someone to make a joke like that |
| 20:30:08 | <monochrom> | @remember maerwald Do you have to be a priest to write haskell? |
| 20:30:08 | <lambdabot> | It is stored. |
| 20:30:30 | <maerwald> | this is so out of context :p |
| 20:31:57 | <monochrom> | Andrew Gordon (1712–1751) – Benedictine monk, priest, physicist, inventor who made the first electric motor, and wrote the PhD thesis "functional I/O". |
| 20:32:27 | <monochrom> | err "functional programming and input/output" |
| 20:33:13 | <monochrom> | So yes you have to be a priest to understand why IO is a monad. >:) |
| 20:34:06 | <__minoru__shirae> | and this one too |
| 20:34:23 | <__minoru__shirae> | @remember int-e you don't actually need to study the scriptures (writings of Church) to code Haskell |
| 20:34:23 | <lambdabot> | It is forever etched in my memory. |
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| 20:35:48 | <boxscape> | @quote church |
| 20:35:48 | <lambdabot> | procyon says: emk: You might get a wider audience with "Church is not just for Hoare's" |
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| 20:38:06 | <koz_> | boxscape: Lol. |
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| 20:48:42 | <__minoru__shirae> | @quote writings.of.church |
| 20:48:43 | <lambdabot> | int-e says: you don't actually need to study the scriptures (writings of Church) to code Haskell |
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| 20:51:19 | <koz_> | Alonzo Church has given us endless pun fodder with his (sur)name. |
| 20:53:09 | <int-e> | Don't mix Church and state. |
| 20:53:17 | <int-e> | (Old but glorious.) |
| 20:53:48 | <monochrom> | Hrm interesting, "cabal-version: 3.4": Remove -any and -none syntax for version ranges Use >=0 and <0 respectively. |
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| 20:54:45 | <koz_> | int-e: I will have my optimal free State monad! |
| 20:55:15 | <koz_> | (although arguably, this is mixing Church and State) |
| 20:55:35 | <monochrom> | The church monad: newtype Church e a = Church (e -> a) |
| 20:55:43 | <boxscape> | @quote Church.and.state |
| 20:55:44 | <lambdabot> | shapr says: Haskell separates Church and state |
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| 20:57:43 | <monochrom> | cabal-install 3.4's "cabal freeze" saves index-state |
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| 21:10:45 | <ezzieyguywuf> | makes my life more difficult |
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| 22:29:21 | <zebrag> | `Ap x y <*> z = Ap x (flip <$> y <*> z)`, okay I'm starting to understand a bit. Some elementary tutorial would be nice. |
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| 22:31:11 | <infinisil> | :t \y z -> flip <$> y <*> z |
| 22:31:13 | <lambdabot> | Applicative f => f (a1 -> a2 -> c) -> f a2 -> f (a1 -> c) |
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| 22:33:43 | <zebrag> | not bad |
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| 22:38:02 | <zebrag> | Now the rest of Control.Applicative.Free, I need liftAp, just to read https://image.slidesharecdn.com/applicativestyleprogramming-160914224841/95/applicative-style-programming-30-638.jpg |
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| 22:38:50 | <zebrag> | Hum, I'll manage |
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| 22:56:50 | <zebrag> | I'll try this one, maybe it'll end up being easier to understand. It also is one of the recommended entry point. https://gergo.erdi.hu/blog/2012-12-01-static_analysis_with_applicatives/ |
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| 23:48:56 | <monochrom> | oh w00t new ghcup version! |
| 23:49:45 | <Uniaika> | woop woop |
| 23:49:51 | <Axman6> | oh? |
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| 23:49:59 | <Uniaika> | nice |
| 23:50:06 | <monochrom> | Now 0.1.13. I had 0.1.12 |
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| 23:53:59 | <monochrom> | Also ghcup now knows about hls 1.0.0 |
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| 23:56:52 | <Uniaika> | yes it's p. rad |
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All times are in UTC on 2021-03-02.