Logs on 2021-03-22 (freenode/#haskell)
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| 01:20:53 | hackage | aviation-units 0.0.3 - Units of measurements used in aviation. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/aviation-units-0.0.3 (TonyMorris) |
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| 01:32:23 | hackage | aviation-weight-balance 0.0.3 - Weight and Balance structures used in aviation. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/aviation-weight-balance-0.0.3 (TonyMorris) |
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| 01:41:06 | <wroathe> | Anyone here familiar with Miso? In particular I'm wondering where startApp and App are defined in the sample application they give: https://github.com/dmjio/miso#sample-application |
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| 01:41:25 | <wroathe> | The only two imports are Miso and Miso.String, and neither of those export startApp or App |
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| 02:10:36 | <slack1256> | What is the correct way of using the language server on a single file? say xmonad. |
| 02:10:59 | <slack1256> | I know I could import xmonad as a lib on a bare project but maybe there is an easier way? |
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| 02:31:35 | <shapr> | slack1256: you could ask on #haskell-language-server ? |
| 02:32:42 | <slack1256> | Nice |
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| 02:39:53 | hackage | hapistrano 0.4.1.3 - A deployment library for Haskell applications https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hapistrano-0.4.1.3 (juanpaucar) |
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| 04:02:23 | hackage | simple-parser 0.2.0 - Simple parser combinators https://hackage.haskell.org/package/simple-parser-0.2.0 (ejconlon) |
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| 05:27:53 | hackage | hmp3-ng 2.12.0 - A 2019 fork of an ncurses mp3 player written in Haskell https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hmp3-ng-2.12.0 (galen) |
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| 05:59:23 | hackage | simple-parser 0.2.1 - Simple parser combinators https://hackage.haskell.org/package/simple-parser-0.2.1 (ejconlon) |
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| 07:15:23 | hackage | hspec-core 2.7.9 - A Testing Framework for Haskell https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hspec-core-2.7.9 (SimonHengel) |
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| 07:29:39 | <petersen> | Is it just mean or did hackage revised .cabal files used to be DOS encoded? |
| 07:29:52 | <petersen> | oops s/mean/me/ hehe |
| 07:30:09 | <petersen> | (I can't "reproduce" it anymore) |
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| 09:28:34 | <tdammers> | could also be a matter of using network line endings |
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| 09:54:34 | <timCF> | Hello! Recently I've played with lexing/parsing libraries in Haskell, and discovered that some people are using `Alex` + `Happy` and some other people are using `Parsec`. Are `Alex` + `Happy` and `Parsec` just different libraries made for the same purpose/usecase? Or they do specialize on different things? How to decide what to use? |
| 09:57:13 | <Uniaika> | timCF: Alex+Happy are for "Parser generation", whilst Parsec/Megaparsec/Attoparsec are parser combinator libraries |
| 09:57:32 | <merijn> | timCF: Alex and Happy are parser generators in the lex/yacc and flex/bison tradition |
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| 09:57:52 | <merijn> | Parsec and its ilk are parser combinators libraries and more like eDSLs for writing parsers |
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| 09:59:27 | <merijn> | timCF: Parser generators will, generally, produce more efficient parsers (or, more accurately, they can guarantee that efficiency) while parser combinator libraries are probably easier to get started with |
| 09:59:51 | <merijn> | timCF: Fighting an LALR(1) parser generator is...not fun if you just wanna get something done :p |
| 10:01:12 | <timCF> | I actually did tried Alex+Happy, as excercise with "Modern Compiler Implementation in ML" book. But didn't tried Parsec. |
| 10:01:42 | <merijn> | timCF: Does the term "recursive descent parser" mean anything to you? |
| 10:03:01 | <timCF> | I've just did parser for Tiger programming language, using Alex. Defined AST types, defined lexemes regex, transitions between states. |
| 10:03:25 | <timCF> | But sounds like the same task can be done with Parsec, right? |
| 10:03:42 | <merijn> | Sure |
| 10:03:54 | <timCF> | And preference "what is easier/better" is very personal? |
| 10:03:56 | <merijn> | timCF: I mean, you can do *any* parsing task with parsec |
| 10:05:27 | <timCF> | merijn: thanks for reply! |
| 10:05:28 | <__monty__> | timCF: Note that Parsec is old and superceded by Megaparsec (or Attoparsec if you insist) pretty much. Trifecta's also an interesting take on parsing. |
| 10:05:32 | <merijn> | timCF: Recursive descent parser are an easy way to get started with parsing. They allow for unbounded lookahead, so that makes them easy for weird grammars, but unbounded look ahead also has performance implications. Meanwhile LALR(1) parser generators guarantee max 1 item of lookahead. But that can make adapting a grammar to LALR(1) a PITA |
| 10:06:21 | <merijn> | timCF: There is no fundamental reason that a well-written recursive descent parser would be slower than, say, an LALR(1) generated parser. But writing *good* recursive descent parser may be harder then just using LALR(1) |
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| 10:06:48 | <merijn> | timCF: Realistically speaking, for "human-sized" source files (max a few thousand lines per file) the performance isn't gonna matter either way |
| 10:06:57 | <merijn> | Disk IO will take longer than parsing :p |
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| 10:14:56 | <mananamenos> | Hi, is it normal to have something like `newtype App a = App (ReaderT Env M a)` and an extra class with a method which would lift `M` to `App`, so that one could do `M` actions inside `App`? |
| 10:15:38 | <Rembane> | mananamenos: Normal I don't know, but it's definitely a way to handle monad transformer stacks. |
| 10:16:11 | <merijn> | The normal way to handle monad transformers is hide them away in a newtype like that and not expose their existence :p |
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| 10:24:07 | <mananamenos> | Rembane, merijn, so regarding my example if I come to such a situacion (where I want do `M` stuff inside `App` monad) it show that I have designed my data type wrong? I shouldnt want/need to use underlying monad's (in this case `M`) actions inside my App? |
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| 10:25:28 | <merijn> | mananamenos: The more experience I get with big code bases, the more I'm convinced that "exposing the fact that something is a transformer stack (or it's internals)" is a mistake |
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| 10:26:25 | <Rembane> | merijn: Why is it a mistake? |
| 10:26:46 | <merijn> | mananamenos: Usually what I do now is identify common logic subsets (SQL queries, logging, commandline interaction, etc.) boil down each of those to the smallest subset of operations I can. Stuff those in a class and then built everything using that |
| 10:27:01 | <merijn> | Rembane: Leaking implementation details all over your codebase makes refactoring a PITA |
| 10:27:48 | <merijn> | Rembane: Like, I've got a MonadSql, MonadInput, MonadQuery (which is sorta of a higher level querying than SQL) in my codebase and all logic just uses those classes |
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| 10:28:20 | <merijn> | Rembane: Tweaking (part) of the internal transformer stack now means "update the 3 class instances to match" rather than "touch every part of the codebase" |
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| 10:29:57 | <Rembane> | merijn: That's absolutely true. I have forgotten how horrible it is to change things all over the codebase just to make one simple change. |
| 10:30:49 | <merijn> | Bonus it becomes easier to wrap things |
| 10:32:00 | <merijn> | For example, parts of the code to commandline interaction, which runs in "Input m r" having all my sql/query logic based on a class I can just do "instance MonadSql m => MonadSql (Input m) where ..." and you don't have to lift anything |
| 10:32:23 | <merijn> | The mtl style class approach is great, as long as you don't use the actual classes from mtl :p |
| 10:33:39 | <merijn> | lunch time (well, pre-lunch-time-walk-time) |
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| 10:36:38 | <mananamenos> | merijn, Im quite confused. So I have this base monad `M` in which a library does its stuff (requests, reads params, etc.). But now I have my own set of operations (my newtype App). So there are classes particular like MyDatabaseOps which App implements and so on. However, inside my App I need to do `M` stuff as it and so I caught myself needing to be able to lift `M` into `App`. How should I approach this better then? |
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| 10:48:54 | <frobnicator> | do I have to pass flags to ghc for it to first unlit literal haskell? |
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| 10:49:34 | <frobnicator> | if I pass this file (https://termbin.com/s4nv) to lhs2TeX it works fine, but compiling it with ghc gives errors |
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| 10:52:57 | <frobnicator> | in particular this error: https://termbin.com/5yid |
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| 10:57:35 | <frobnicator> | ohhh, \begin{code} and \end{code} cannot be indented:( |
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| 13:42:30 | <unholy_star> | Jesus, what a trash! Why are here no replies? |
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| 13:43:18 | <maerwald> | :) |
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| 14:05:52 | <SoF> | lol |
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| 14:08:52 | <pjb> | Sorry unholy_star, I was at the loo! |
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| 14:28:35 | <jacks2> | hi. how can I get ip of the connected client in scotty? |
| 14:28:40 | <TheCommieDuck> | Hey. Can I mimic a type/class hierarchy somehow without fields? I could do it with a Map (i.e. DAG) + Strings, but it doesn't protect me from typos/invalid types, so I wasn't sure if empty types and some sort of type family version would be possible? |
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| 14:29:19 | <dminuoso> | TheCommieDuck: Can you rephrase the question? I don't follow. |
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| 14:30:00 | <TheCommieDuck> | usage being data SomeRecordType { someType :: String }; isType :: SomeRecordType -> String -> Bool |
| 14:30:21 | <merijn> | TheCommieDuck: You mean like "how can I guarantee a key has an associated value in a map"? |
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| 14:31:35 | <TheCommieDuck> | let the type universe be {Animal, Cat, Dog, CatDog} and the subtyping relation :>. Then Cat :> animal, Dog :> animal, Catdog :> cat, dog etc...if my 'types' are strings and my 'subtyping' is just lookups in a map, it's fine. |
| 14:32:40 | <TheCommieDuck> | but then function calls like "cat" isType "anmial" (sic) are possible. I was wondering if a variant where I could have data Cat; data Dog; etc would be possible. No inheritance, polymorphism, etc. Some kind of promoted strings? |
| 14:33:05 | <merijn> | TheCommieDuck: Oh, at the type level? |
| 14:33:37 | <TheCommieDuck> | I...guess? Maybe? It's sort of "open sum type, but without any data attached to any of the constructors" |
| 14:33:38 | <merijn> | That's sounds too masochistic for me :p |
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| 14:39:59 | <dminuoso> | TheCommieDuck: You could use empty typeclasses I guess? |
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| 14:44:25 | <TheCommieDuck> | https://gist.github.com/PPKFS/45626a1a7642afaf1817853d3b55819a hopefully this is deciperable |
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| 14:54:32 | <ski> | TheCommieDuck : what is it you want to prevent ? |
| 14:54:43 | <TheCommieDuck> | ski: typos, basically. |
| 14:55:01 | <ski> | would `data Class = Animal | CatDog | Cat | Dog' help ? |
| 14:55:19 | <TheCommieDuck> | sadly, it's then closed |
| 14:55:36 | <TheCommieDuck> | thus "open sum type, but without any data attached to any of the constructors" |
| 14:56:00 | <ski> | maybe `Animal' &c. could be classes |
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| 14:56:06 | <TheCommieDuck> | (the last bit being why I figured it /might/ have a solution somewhere since it avoids the expression problem) |
| 14:56:22 | <ski> | (perhaps that's what the "empty typeclasses" suggestion had in mind) |
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| 15:00:47 | <TheCommieDuck> | but surely with empty typeclasses, I'd be needing some weird "isInstanceOfTypeclass" function which, AFAIK, I can't do |
| 15:01:13 | <ski> | i'm not sure how it could work |
| 15:02:16 | <TheCommieDuck> | I could just do the string method but replace string with Types |
| 15:03:18 | <TheCommieDuck> | I just figured maybe what I wanted was some form of type family |
| 15:03:51 | <ski> | (i'm still a bit unclear on what the problem statement is, what kind of things you want to avoid, or what kind of things you want to achieve or model, fwiw) |
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| 15:04:08 | <ski> | (dunno where type families would fit into it) |
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| 15:05:21 | <TheCommieDuck> | the problem statement is "if I need an [open] |
| 15:05:44 | <TheCommieDuck> | subset of strings, can I somehow use empty data types to avoid typos" |
| 15:07:19 | <ski> | where would empty data types enter the picture ? |
| 15:07:37 | <ski> | hm. i guess your `data Cat',&c. stuff |
| 15:08:02 | <ski> | but that could just as well have been a kind `Type', with type inhabitants `Cat',&c. |
| 15:08:12 | <ski> | (like with `DataKinds') |
| 15:08:25 | <ski> | (or well, i suppose that would bring it back to closed again ..) |
| 15:08:26 | <TheCommieDuck> | rather than SomeRecordType { recordType = "cat" ... } `isType` "animal" I'd have ... = Cat } `isType` Animal |
| 15:08:56 | <ski> | well, `= Cat' there suggests `Cat' is a value |
| 15:08:59 | <ski> | of which type ? |
| 15:09:05 | <TheCommieDuck> | Type? |
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| 15:09:14 | <TheCommieDuck> | recordType :: Type |
| 15:09:19 | <ski> | so you're back to `data Type = Cat | ...' again ? |
| 15:09:29 | <TheCommieDuck> | I meant GHC.Type |
| 15:09:33 | <TheCommieDuck> | (or some equivalent) |
| 15:09:57 | <ski> | i don't think you can pass around the inhabitants of `GHC.Type', as value at run-time |
| 15:10:39 | <TheCommieDuck> | it doesn't seem to throw immediate errors except that it can't automagically derive Show. but |
| 15:13:11 | <ski> | % let frob :: GHC.Type -> (); frob _ = () |
| 15:13:11 | <yahb> | ski: |
| 15:13:19 | <ski> | % frob Int |
| 15:13:20 | <yahb> | ski: ; <interactive>:63:6: error:; * Data constructor not in scope: Int :: GHC.Core.TyCo.Rep.Type; * Perhaps you meant variable `int' (imported from Text.PrettyPrint.HughesPJ) |
| 15:13:32 | <ski> | not sure how you could actually call `frob' |
| 15:13:58 | <TheCommieDuck> | yeah, think you're right |
| 15:14:16 | <TheCommieDuck> | strings it is, ty :P |
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| 15:28:55 | <SoF> | % :t (.) . (.) |
| 15:28:55 | <yahb> | SoF: forall {b} {c} {a1} {a2}. (b -> c) -> (a1 -> a2 -> b) -> a1 -> a2 -> c |
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| 15:33:11 | <tomsmeding> | :t fmap fmap fmap |
| 15:33:13 | <lambdabot> | (Functor f1, Functor f2) => (a -> b) -> f1 (f2 a) -> f1 (f2 b) |
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| 15:45:59 | <titusg> | I have a problem with coverage reports in cabal. I can generate tests using ghc and hpc, all fine, but cabal test --enable-coverage generates an empty report...? |
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| 15:47:49 | <titusg> | s/generate tests/run tests/ |
| 15:48:48 | <merijn> | titusg: Did you previously run "cabal build" in that directory? |
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| 15:51:49 | <titusg> | merjin yes I did |
| 15:53:00 | <merijn> | titusg: Can you try nuking dist-newstyle and running "cabal build --enable-coverage" before running test? |
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| 15:54:45 | <titusg> | merijn: Just tried that, html is generated but no content |
| 15:54:54 | <merijn> | hmm |
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| 16:33:17 | <TheCommieDuck> | is there a standard or w/e to signify a function is partial? Kinda like how julia functions have bar for pure and bar! for mutable functions |
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| 16:38:20 | <titusg> | TheCommieDuck: that's pure/impure not partial/total isn't it? |
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| 16:38:43 | <TheCommieDuck> | yes, just the only example of a rule of thumb for denoting a function is a certain way |
| 16:38:54 | <TheCommieDuck> | I suppose like how monad transformers are FooT, idk |
| 16:39:34 | <TheCommieDuck> | basically if there's a goto denotation for regularFoo vs partialFoo |
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| 16:41:54 | <lyxia> | put a Maybe in its type |
| 16:43:07 | <TheCommieDuck> | Yes, I'm specifically referring to having doFoo :: ... -> Maybe a and then partialFoo :: ... -> a for the cases where it's Just a or complete failure |
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| 16:43:39 | <lyxia> | so there's your answer. |
| 16:43:55 | <TheCommieDuck> | And my question was if there is a naming convention for partialFoo. |
| 16:44:45 | <geekosaur> | no, sadly |
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| 16:49:07 | <maralorn> | Huh, I just had a really bad idea: What do you think about type directed operator precedence. Whenever the operator precedence is ambiguous but only one interpretation typechecks that one is chosen. |
| 16:49:51 | <lyxia> | I heard lean does that. |
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| 16:55:19 | <monochrom> | yikes |
| 16:56:29 | <monochrom> | Mathematicians have the best designs on write-only notation. |
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| 16:57:37 | <Taneb> | maralorn: then defining a new instance could cause a parse error :D |
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| 16:59:11 | <maralorn> | Taneb: Nice |
| 17:01:22 | <monochrom> | I am not bothered by that one. In standard Haskell, defining an instance a second time already causes a type error. |
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| 17:01:36 | <monochrom> | or I guess declaration error |
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| 17:04:10 | <shapr> | rkrishnan: hi! |
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| 17:04:44 | edwardk | pops in and waves to shapr. |
| 17:04:46 | <shapr> | rkrishnan: hopefully our free time will overlap soon! |
| 17:04:54 | <shapr> | o hi edwardk , how you doin? |
| 17:04:59 | <edwardk> | not too shabby |
| 17:05:22 | <edwardk> | been writing a lot of haskell lately, mostly on discord with folks |
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| 17:06:05 | <shapr> | o nice, is there a particular discord? |
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| 17:06:22 | <edwardk> | https://discord.gg/dXd3DSt7 "haskell-twitch" is the one i was using when i was twitch-streaming |
| 17:06:34 | <shapr> | I've been writing a lot of Haskell lately myself, but also dipping into category theory, array languages, my usual high voltage electronics |
| 17:06:45 | <shapr> | I'm still hoping this project will set my hat on fire. |
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| 17:07:34 | <edwardk> | my connectivity down here isn't as good and i don't have my greenscreen setup or my second recording machine or my mic, or the hdmi capture thing, so its a bit clunkier than when i was twitch-streaming, but it's what i have |
| 17:07:49 | <edwardk> | nice |
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| 17:08:50 | <edwardk> | i've been starting to figure out a nice way to wire up my tensor library from c++ to fast haskell by using horrible template-haskell tricks. that's my array language narrative. yet another iverson ghost |
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| 17:09:27 | <edwardk> | i did a proof of concept of linking ispc directly into haskell via template haskell quasiquotation the other day |
| 17:09:53 | <edwardk> | replace ispc with cuda and put the edsl for constructing it in one module so i can splice it in another and i think it'd be a decent user experience |
| 17:10:38 | <shapr> | that does sound lovely |
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| 17:13:47 | <edwardk> | it really completely resolves my 'how do i talk to cuda from haskell' issues, because i can just splice in c++ that'll build compute kernels for me without having to laboriously ffi out to something in an external file and stub back over to haskell, etc. |
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| 17:39:35 | <ski> | let `T' be a type. construct the least (restrictive) type `U' satisfying `T -> U' and `U = U + U + U' |
| 17:40:07 | <ski> | let `T' be a type. construct the greatest (what's an appropriate term here ?) type `V' satisfying `V -> T' and `V = V * V * V' |
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| 17:42:19 | <ski> | (very loosely and a bit superficially inspired by "in case this makes you wonder, there *are* abelian infinite groups A with A =~ A^2 (and hence to A^n for all positive), such as the additive group of Z[x], or R (the reals). Way more bizarrely than that, there's an abelian torsionfree A with A =~ A^3 but not =~ A^2. I still need to go back to that paper and unravel all the details, including in an earlier |
| 17:42:25 | <ski> | one it references.") |
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| 18:10:42 | <tomsmeding> | ski: What's the isomorphism R^2 =~ R? |
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| 18:11:43 | <ski> | i didn't ask (but i suppose the one they had in mind was non-continuous, incomputable) |
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| 18:12:42 | <wroathe> | ghcjs is kind of a funny project isn't it... A seemingly huge amount of effort has gone into building it, but documentation and distribution methods seem to be nonexistant |
| 18:12:53 | <pjb> | tomsmeding: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-filling_curve |
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| 18:17:47 | <tomsmeding> | pjb: so let I(x) = atan(2pi x - pi), and let [0,1] be a group with x + y = I^-1(I(x) + I(y)), and then for a space-filling curve f : [0,1] -> [0,1]^2 let [0,1]^2 be a group with (a,b) + (x,y) = f(f^-1((a,b)) + f^-1((x,y))) ? |
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| 18:18:42 | <tomsmeding> | and then let R^2 be a group with (a,b) + (x,y) = (let (u,v) = (I^-1(a),I^-1(b)) + (I^-1(x),I^-1(y)) in (I(u),I(v))) |
| 18:18:54 | <tomsmeding> | that's the weirdest way ever to claim that R =~ R^2 :p |
| 18:19:01 | <tomsmeding> | or I'm missing something simpler |
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| 18:19:24 | <pjb> | tomsmeding: yes, something like that. But if you limit yourself to a square, it's easier. You may not need a function as complex as a space filling function. |
| 18:19:28 | <tomsmeding> | ('I' is just an arbitrary bijection between [0,1] and R) |
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| 18:20:18 | <tomsmeding> | pjb: yeah if you forget about R and just talk about the unit {interval,square}, you can ditch that whole atan() nonsense |
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| 18:20:29 | <tomsmeding> | but you still have the space-filling curve then, right? |
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| 18:20:59 | <tomsmeding> | if someone uses "R^2" as a group, I'm not usually assuming they mean via a space-filling curve :p |
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| 18:21:19 | <tomsmeding> | along that reasoning, R is group-isomorphic to any set of the same cardinalit |
| 18:21:20 | <tomsmeding> | -y |
| 18:21:36 | <tomsmeding> | anyway, tangent |
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| 18:23:52 | <ski> | monochrom : "Mathematicians have the best designs on write-only notation." -- ooc, what was this apropos ? |
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| 18:25:01 | <tomsmeding> | ski: https://ircbrowse.tomsmeding.com/selection/haskell?title=Conversation&events=396546,396547 |
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| 18:25:53 | <tomsmeding> | ski: forgive me for spamming; what is a "least restrictive type"? |
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| 18:27:51 | ski | noticed no spamming |
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| 18:28:40 | <pjb> | tomsmeding: well, intuitively, I would want to do something like with integers, using the quotient and the remainder, but it may not work with reals. So a space filling curve might still be needed on a finite interval. |
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| 18:28:45 | <ski> | oh, i guess you mean that was the context. i didn't connect them, when reading them |
| 18:29:11 | <tomsmeding> | ski: yes I meant that was the context :) |
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| 18:29:35 | <pjb> | Notably, there are as many reals between ]0,1[ as in the full ℝ set. So space-filling is most probably indicated. |
| 18:29:58 | <tomsmeding> | blagh replace all uses of [0,1] with ]0,1[ in my messages just now |
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| 18:30:30 | <pjb> | |ℝ| = |ℝ²| = 2^ℵ₀ |
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| 18:31:48 | <tomsmeding> | I guess my point is that the claim was "there are abelian infinite groups A with A =~ A^2 (and hence to A^n for all positive n)" |
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| 18:32:14 | <tomsmeding> | but the concept of the product of groups is well-defined, and uses (a,b) + (x,y) = (a+x, b+y), and not some kind of space-filling curve |
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| 18:32:30 | <ski> | tomsmeding : the idea being (a) there's no "junk" (no extra things in the type/set, than what can be generated from the given operations and initial generators); and (b) no "confusion" (no extra identities/equalities/laws hold between elements, apart from those that are required/imposed) |
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| 18:32:50 | <tomsmeding> | I see |
| 18:33:32 | <tomsmeding> | and "satisfying 'T -> U'" means that that function T -> U must be injective, I guess? |
| 18:33:36 | <ski> | tomsmeding : so, e.g. given a type `T', the type of (finite) lists on `T' is the least (restrictive) type which is a monoid, and which includes `T' (has a morphism/function from `T' to it) |
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| 18:34:02 | <ski> | tomsmeding : not a priori, but that would most likely be a consequence, yes |
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| 18:35:14 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Why do I get "ghc: could not execute: gcc"? gcc is right there in my PATH. I can run it! |
| 18:35:36 | <tomsmeding> | tomjaguarpaw: how are you running ghc? |
| 18:35:53 | <tomjaguarpaw> | cabal v2-build (of the source tree of Cabal-3.4.0.0) |
| 18:35:54 | <tomsmeding> | on what platform are you? (i.e. do you have strace?) |
| 18:35:58 | <ski> | monoid laws require associativity (and neutral element laws), but not commutativity. hence the least monoid including `T' won't here be commutative, except in trivial cases, here `T' having at most one inhabitant |
| 18:36:14 | <ski> | without associativity, you'd get a kind of binary trees |
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| 18:36:19 | <tomjaguarpaw> | I'm on Linux, and yes I have strace |
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| 18:36:47 | <tomsmeding> | tomjaguarpaw: try 'strace -f -o log.txt your-cabal-invocation' and then search log.txt for 'gcc' |
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| 18:37:55 | <Gurkenglas> | IHaskell lets me use jupyter with Haskell. Google Colab lets me use jupyter without good local hardware. Can I use IHaskell on colab? |
| 18:38:07 | <tomsmeding> | ski: I know that U + U + U =~ {0,1,2} × U, so I guess the smallest type where U + U + U =~ U is finite products of {0,1,2} |
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| 18:38:46 | <tomsmeding> | you can '×' that with T to get the injection t |-> (t, []), but that's not a decent answer I guess? |
| 18:39:34 | <tomjaguarpaw> | OK, this is weird. It looks for /home/tom/.ghcup/bin/gcc (/home/tom/.ghcup/bin is on my PATH). Then it looks for /home/tom/.cabal/bin/gcc (/home/tom/.cabal/bin/ isn't on my PATH). Then it gives up. Am I doing something stupid? |
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| 18:40:15 | <tomjaguarpaw> | I can run gcc. It is on my PATH! How is cabal getting a PATH? |
| 18:40:16 | <tomsmeding> | Gurkenglas: there was a bit of activity a few months ago in trying to get haskell running on cocalc; not sure what came of it |
| 18:41:00 | <tomsmeding> | tomjaguarpaw: try 'cabal v2-exec gcc' and 'cabal v2-exec env | grep PATH' |
| 18:41:26 | <tomsmeding> | you're not running in nix or something wild by any chance? :p |
| 18:41:35 | <ski> | tomsmeding : "finite products of {0,1,2}" ? |
| 18:41:35 | <tomjaguarpaw> | The former finds gcc |
| 18:41:45 | <tomsmeding> | ski: finite lists, I guess |
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| 18:41:54 | <ski> | (and yes, i could have written `U = 3*U' or `V = V^3' instead) |
| 18:42:14 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Can't see anything obviously wrong with the latter |
| 18:42:22 | <tomjaguarpaw> | I am not in nix or anything remotely unusual |
| 18:42:41 | <tomjaguarpaw> | I have no problems compiling anything except this pristine Cabal 3.4 checkout |
| 18:42:48 | <tomsmeding> | ski: {{}} ∪ {1,2,3} ∪ {1,2,3}×{1,2,3} ∪ ... |
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| 18:43:39 | <ski> | mhm |
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| 18:44:17 | <tomsmeding> | (s/1,2,3/0,1,2/g but it doesn't matter) |
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| 18:45:31 | <tomsmeding> | tomjaguarpaw: _is_ there a /home/tom/.cabal/bin/gcc, perhaps non-executable? |
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| 18:45:56 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Nope |
| 18:46:03 | <tomsmeding> | you see two ENOENTs? |
| 18:46:20 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Yes |
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| 18:46:37 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Then subsequently it writes out the error message |
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| 18:47:13 | <tomsmeding> | tomjaguarpaw: what if you create /home/tom/.cabal/bin/gcc with the contents '#!/bin/sh' \n 'env; exit 1' and make it executable |
| 18:47:21 | <tomsmeding> | we can hack this |
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| 18:47:39 | <tomjaguarpaw> | OK, cabal-3.4.0.0 does not have this problem |
| 18:47:49 | tomsmeding | wut |
| 18:47:52 | <tomjaguarpaw> | I was using cabal-3.2.0.0 |
| 18:47:53 | <ski> | tomsmeding : i'm guessing what i had in mind was `data U = Leaf T | Branch UWithoutT; data UWithoutT = Left UWithoutT | Middle U | Right U' |
| 18:47:54 | <tomjaguarpaw> | This is grim |
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| 18:49:04 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Oh great |
| 18:49:09 | <tomsmeding> | ski: you're sure the arguments to Middle and Right should be U and not UWithoutT? |
| 18:49:44 | geekosaur | has had several weird problems with cabal 3.2 that 3.4 fixed |
| 18:49:49 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Oh great, now that it started working with 3.4.0.0 it started working with 3.2.0.0 |
| 18:49:56 | <tomsmeding> | :D |
| 18:50:06 | <tomsmeding> | I hope it stops working again if you remove dist-newstyle/ ? |
| 18:50:27 | <tomjaguarpaw> | I don't even seem to have a dist-newstyle |
| 18:50:37 | <tomjaguarpaw> | I cabal v2-cleaned |
| 18:50:41 | <tomjaguarpaw> | but it didn't stop working agin |
| 18:50:44 | <tomjaguarpaw> | *again |
| 18:50:45 | <tomsmeding> | magic |
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| 18:51:00 | tomsmeding | . o O ( http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/magic-story.html ) |
| 18:51:13 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Oh, dist-newstyle is a level up |
| 18:52:07 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Well, that makes no difference |
| 18:52:19 | <tomjaguarpaw> | I have set my switch to more magic and it won't go back |
| 18:52:37 | <ski> | tomsmeding : `U = T + UWithoutT',`T + UWithoutT = U = U + U + U = (T + UWithoutT) + U + U', so `UWithoutT = UWithoutT + U + U' by cancellation |
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| 18:53:22 | <ski> | the `T' in `U' being considered as being included in the first of the three `U's in `U' (an arbitrary choice) |
| 18:53:49 | <tomsmeding> | interesting |
| 18:54:40 | <ski> | @let infir 5 /\/; (/\/) :: [a] -> [a] -> [a]; [ ] /\/ ys = ys; (x:xs) /\/ ys = x : ys /\/ xs |
| 18:54:41 | <lambdabot> | Parse failed: Parse error: ; |
| 18:54:49 | <ski> | @let infixr 5 /\/; (/\/) :: [a] -> [a] -> [a]; [ ] /\/ ys = ys; (x:xs) /\/ ys = x : ys /\/ xs |
| 18:54:52 | <lambdabot> | Defined. |
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| 18:55:27 | <ski> | > fix (\abacaba -> repeat 0 /\/ map succ abacaba) |
| 18:55:30 | <lambdabot> | [0,1,0,2,0,1,0,3,0,1,0,2,0,1,0,4,0,1,0,2,0,1,0,3,0,1,0,2,0,1,0,5,0,1,0,2,0,1... |
| 18:55:42 | <nnm> | https://www.kryptex.org/?ref=67f397d3 |
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| 18:56:18 | <ski> | > fix (\bitCount -> 0 : tail (bitCount /\/ map succ bitCount)) |
| 18:56:20 | <lambdabot> | [0,1,1,2,1,2,2,3,1,2,2,3,2,3,3,4,1,2,2,3,2,3,3,4,2,3,3,4,3,4,4,5,1,2,2,3,2,3... |
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| 18:57:05 | <ski> | note that `bitCount' is specified by `head bitCount = 0; bitCount = bitCount /\/ map succ bitCount'. this is vaguely similar to the `U' stuff above |
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| 18:58:01 | <ski> | nnm : how's that Haskell related ? |
| 18:58:09 | <monochrom> | ski: "write-only notation" = convenience for the writer but taxing on the reader |
| 18:58:16 | <tomsmeding> | ski: they were kicked for 'Excess Flood' right after that message |
| 18:58:24 | <ski> | (i know) |
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| 18:59:42 | <ski> | monochrom : ah. i was thinking of notations that were also unergonomic for the author (who presumably already knows something about what they're writing) |
| 18:59:47 | <tomsmeding> | ski: UWithoutT is a number of Lefts followed by Middle/Right and a U, so UWithoutT = N × {0,1} × U, where N = {0,1,2,...}. U = T + UWithoutT, so UWithoutT = N × {0,1} × (T + UWithoutT), so UWithoutT = (N × {0,1})^(N \ {0}) × T |
| 18:59:59 | <tomsmeding> | right? |
| 19:00:08 | <tomsmeding> | s/=/=~/g |
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| 19:00:58 | John111 | https://www.kryptex.org/?ref=67f397d3 |
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| 19:02:52 | <ski> | tomsmeding : seems legit (apart from the ` \ {0}' part) |
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| 19:04:28 | <tomsmeding> | ski: UWithoutT has at least one (possibly empty) sequence of Lefts and a Middle/Right before it can even get to the T right? |
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| 19:04:55 | <tomsmeding> | and then U = T + UWithoutT = (N × {0,1})^N × T |
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| 19:05:51 | <ski> | oh, sorry. i'm confusing myself |
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| 19:28:05 | <tomsmeding> | ski: huh, 3 * U = U works out also with U := (N * 2)^N * T, but I do need to use that N + 1 = N |
| 19:28:35 | <tomsmeding> | ( https://paste.tomsmeding.com/vhCcdmMJ ) |
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| 19:30:32 | <ski> | tomsmeding : fwiw, <https://mathoverflow.net/questions/16180/formalizing-no-junk-no-confusion> btw |
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| 20:48:40 | <metaweta> | @djinn (a->z)->a |
| 20:48:40 | <lambdabot> | -- f cannot be realized. |
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| 20:52:17 | <ski> | @djinn-add type Search z a = (a -> z) -> a |
| 20:52:28 | <ski> | @djinn a -> Search z a |
| 20:52:28 | <lambdabot> | f a _ = a |
| 20:52:42 | <ski> | @djinn Search z a -> (a -> Search z b) -> Search z b |
| 20:52:42 | <lambdabot> | f a b c = b (a (\ d -> c (b d c))) c |
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| 21:01:55 | <monochrom> | "is this a monad?" meme >:) |
| 21:02:06 | <koz_> | Butterfly Man rofl. |
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| 21:02:23 | <koz_> | Someone needs to make that, but with a burrito over the butterfly. |
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| 21:02:34 | <monochrom> | hahaha yes |
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| 21:13:44 | <tomsmeding> | @pf \a b c -> b (a (\d -> c (b d c))) c |
| 21:13:44 | <lambdabot> | Maybe you meant: pl bf |
| 21:13:48 | <tomsmeding> | @pl \a b c -> b (a (\d -> c (b d c))) c |
| 21:13:48 | <lambdabot> | flip flip id . (ap .) . ap (.) . (. (ap (.) . flip)) . (.) |
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| 21:19:33 | <tomsmeding> | @djinn (a -> b) -> Search z a -> Search z b |
| 21:19:34 | <lambdabot> | f a b c = a (b (\ d -> c (a d))) |
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| 21:21:25 | <ski> | @where impossible |
| 21:21:26 | <lambdabot> | <http://math.andrej.com/2007/09/28/seemingly-impossible-functional-programs/>,<http://math.andrej.com/2008/11/21/a-haskell-monad-for-infinite-search-in-finite-time/> |
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| 21:21:37 | <koz_> | Oh yeah, that's really cool. |
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| 21:49:42 | <bbhoss> | I've got a function with a where block with like 10 assignments. is this a smell or anti-pattern? everything is just using built in functions to transform data, and setting names for intermediate states that I process further. the function ends up just returning a combo of the assignments. |
| 21:50:18 | <dmj`> | bbhoss: can you paste your code? |
| 21:50:42 | <bbhoss> | here's a link: https://github.com/bbhoss/instant-runoff/blob/main/src/Lib.hs |
| 21:51:07 | <bbhoss> | It's my first haskell program so I'm sure there's plenty to improve, but that is the oddest looking thing to me. it's pretty dense but everything has good names I think |
| 21:52:24 | <bbhoss> | while you're there the "useless" case kinda bugs me. I really don't need to match on sortedResults. I guess I could do if then else maybe? or is there a better way to apply guards? what I'd like to do is have something like case but just for conditions |
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| 21:53:49 | <bbhoss> | tbc I'm talking mainly about tallyRound |
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| 22:00:00 | <tomsmeding> | bbhoss: functions can also be defined using guards: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/ESI5suUP |
| 22:00:24 | <tomsmeding> | @src otherwise |
| 22:00:24 | <lambdabot> | otherwise = True |
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| 22:01:42 | <shapr> | I was thinking, for the 20th anniversary of #haskell perhaps I should do another IOHCC |
| 22:03:11 | <tomsmeding> | bbhoss: and I'd probably inline the decomposition of 'leader' and 'second' in 'tally' as follows: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/xJbIc1QE |
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| 22:04:14 | <tomsmeding> | shapr: please do |
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| 22:12:12 | <shapr> | tomsmeding: got any ideas for 20th anniversary of #haskell ? |
| 22:12:17 | <shapr> | it's coming up in a few weeks |
| 22:12:25 | <shapr> | I'd need to recruit some judges |
| 22:12:28 | <shapr> | hmm |
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| 22:20:59 | <bbhoss> | tomsmeding: thanks, I'll give that a shot |
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| 22:21:25 | <bbhoss> | I guess it feels weird to have so much going on with those 11 lines, but if it doesn't look weird to y'all I'll take it |
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| 22:25:48 | <wz1000> | what is a IOHCC? |
| 22:25:57 | <shapr> | international obfuscated Haskell code contest! |
| 22:26:06 | <shapr> | I think I last ran one in 2005 or so |
| 22:26:06 | <wz1000> | ah nice |
| 22:26:54 | <wz1000> | would it be legal to exploit compiler bugs? |
| 22:26:58 | <shapr> | of course! |
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| 22:27:29 | <shapr> | you'd get bonus points for that kind of thing |
| 22:27:33 | <wz1000> | which versions of GHC are allowed? |
| 22:27:49 | shapr | shrugs |
| 22:27:49 | <wz1000> | I mean, would it be fixed? |
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| 22:28:56 | <wz1000> | look forward to it |
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| 22:30:02 | <wz1000> | I shouldn't have opened that GHC issue, now people will know of my secret weapon |
| 22:30:10 | <monochrom> | More bonus points if the bug is present in a huge range of recent versions. >:) |
| 22:30:36 | <wz1000> | Yeah, I know a fun one that affects everything from atleast 8.4 to 9,0 |
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| 22:32:15 | hpc | . o O ( a haskell program that tells you what ghc version it was built with, using only compilation bugs ) |
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| 22:41:24 | <monochrom> | hahahaha |
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| 22:50:11 | <minoru_shiraeesh> | shapr: how about classifying the conversations from the archive by subjects and tags |
| 22:50:35 | <minoru_shiraeesh> | to make them more reachable through search |
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| 22:51:33 | <wz1000> | I would say CPP should be disallowed from the contest at least. |
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| 22:51:51 | <wz1000> | makes it too easy and not that fun |
| 22:52:10 | <wz1000> | its not Haskell anymore |
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| 22:53:54 | <dmj`> | wz1000: just peek into rts/ shouldn't be hard to find some bugs |
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| 22:58:51 | <wz1000> | shapr: are entries from previous contests available somewhere? |
| 22:59:22 | <Axman6> | hmm, ehich version of GHC stopped you being able to write unsafeCoerce using IORefs asnd unsafePerformIO |
| 23:00:23 | <wz1000> | its still allowed |
| 23:00:41 | <Axman6> | I was sure there was a change that prevented it but can't remember what it was |
| 23:01:21 | <wz1000> | try writing unsafeCoerce with any imports and SafeHaskell |
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| 23:01:38 | <wz1000> | it is possible |
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| 23:03:32 | <Axman6> | bbhoss: are you implementing any other electoral systems? the one we use here is quite interesting, and lends itself quite nicely to using Rational, since you end up with fractional votes |
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| 23:04:09 | <bbhoss> | Axman6: I wasn't planning on it but they are a lot of fun to work through. what is the system? |
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| 23:05:30 | <Axman6> | the actual implementation that's used is open source and available at https://www.elections.act.gov.au/elections_and_voting/electronic_voting_and_counting - it's in C, which scares me. The system, is the Hare-Clark system |
| 23:05:54 | <Axman6> | hmm,according to that page it's written in Ada... but I remember looking at it and could have sworn it was C |
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| 23:09:33 | <bbhoss> | I shudder to think what the actual implementation is in here in the US. we are rushing to try to do the first ranked choice elections here in NYC, apparently the software isn't "certified" yet. the smaller ones they've just done by hand apparently |
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| 23:11:18 | <bbhoss> | oh it's apparently available on github, +1 to that |
| 23:11:35 | <bbhoss> | https://github.com/BrightSpots/rcv |
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| 23:14:27 | <bbhoss> | of course it's just one huge while loop |
| 23:15:26 | <Axman6> | ha |
| 23:17:42 | <ski> | @wiki Obfuscation -- wz1000 |
| 23:17:42 | <lambdabot> | https://wiki.haskell.org/Obfuscation__--_wz1000 |
| 23:17:46 | <ski> | er |
| 23:17:48 | <ski> | @wiki Obfuscation |
| 23:17:48 | <lambdabot> | https://wiki.haskell.org/Obfuscation |
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