Logs on 2021-03-30 (freenode/#haskell)
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| 00:45:38 | <koz_> | Is there some fancy built-in that does 'concat . unfoldr f'? |
| 00:45:55 | <emilypi> | i don't think `build/destroy` fusion exists in ghc currently |
| 00:46:24 | <koz_> | emilypi: So basically, I might as well use 'concat . unfoldr f'? |
| 00:46:25 | <emilypi> | er, destroy/unfoldr |
| 00:47:22 | <emilypi> | koz_: yeah. GHC didn't opt into this so you don't get much unless you write it yoruself |
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| 00:47:41 | <koz_> | I think I'll save on resorting to that unless I really need it. |
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| 00:49:31 | <Axman6> | is it an optimisation that could come naturally from other optimisations? I imagine enough inlining would give the same effect |
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| 00:50:16 | <emilypi> | bgamari: ^? |
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| 00:50:38 | <bgamari> | emilypi, correct |
| 00:50:47 | <bgamari> | maybe some day |
| 00:50:50 | <emilypi> | RIP |
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| 01:04:44 | <emilypi> | ocharles: do you mind looking at that HPC mr for cabal? i'd like to get that in. afaict it's a rebase to master away from +1 on my part |
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| 02:24:12 | <ezzieyguywuf> | hm, if I have two pairs, (x0, x1) and (x2, x3), and I want to go about checking whether there is an "intersection" between these two pairs such they share exactly one value...how might I go about doing that? |
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| 02:43:12 | <lemmih> | ezzieyguywuf: What have you tried so far? |
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| 04:17:13 | <pupuupup_> | . |
| 04:17:16 | <pupuupup1> | . |
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| 07:50:40 | <maerwald> | does anyone know what happens on windows syscalls if you don't follow the naming convention of file names: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/fileio/naming-a-file#naming-conventions |
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| 07:52:52 | <pjb> | maerwald: they're not conventions, they're rules. |
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| 07:53:20 | <merijn> | maerwald: Then you'll trigger errors on *some* systems |
| 07:53:37 | <pjb> | maerwald: if you use a name such as "foo:bar:bar quux quaks" it will break, because the component separator is \ not : |
| 07:54:30 | <Lycurgus> | it's the attributes that matter |
| 07:54:34 | <merijn> | maerwald: Like, making a file named CON will just fail |
| 07:55:09 | <pjb> | Or using a file named LPT1 will just print stuff instead of storing to a file. |
| 07:55:42 | <merijn> | pjb: I don't think it will |
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| 07:56:43 | <merijn> | maerwald: The issue is that FAT16, FAT32, NTFS, etc. all have different rules. Pretty sure this is just describing a safe/portable subset for all filesystems windows has shipped over the years |
| 07:57:08 | <maerwald> | the question is wheter it makes sense to enforce these rules when constructing a filepath type or let this be a consideration for the curious |
| 07:57:18 | <merijn> | maerwald: Violating those can fail if the fs/windows version you're using happens to not allow that |
| 07:57:21 | <pjb> | Perhaps it's restricted to printers connected to the parallel port. Since there does not remain a lot of them, that may not work indeed. |
| 07:57:34 | <merijn> | maerwald: Probably not, tbh |
| 07:58:02 | <merijn> | maerwald: Then you're also subject to keeping those restrictions up to date over time |
| 07:58:24 | <merijn> | maerwald: And you may wanna do something that violates these rules if you *know* the underlying FS |
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| 07:59:17 | <maerwald> | maybe NUL should be treated special though? |
| 07:59:41 | <maerwald> | not handling that will definitely cause unexpected stuff on unix |
| 08:02:45 | <pjb> | Well, it's a question of user friendlyness. Indeed, users coming from other posix systems will be very surprised and despised by those limitations. So it is good to have code to check and validate user provided file names and paths, and either to transform the given names to map them to valid names for the Windows system, or to inform the user about those restrictions. |
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| 08:04:53 | <ddk> | are there Plutus / Cardano experienced devs here ? |
| 08:05:52 | <maerwald> | are you looking for people? |
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| 08:07:24 | <ddk> | help from people and maybe later people too :) |
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| 09:43:48 | <joel135> | I noticed that liftA2 :: (a -> b -> c) -> f a -> f b -> f c arises from both `f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b` and `f a -> f b -> f (a, b)` by Yoneda. |
| 09:46:04 | <joel135> | Also `f ()` can replace `a -> f a`. |
| 09:46:11 | <opqdonut> | yeah almost any way of combining functorial values is enough for Applicative |
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| 09:47:00 | <joel135> | Personally I think `f ()` and `f a -> f b -> f (a, b)` is less intimidating than the usual definition. |
| 09:49:42 | <opqdonut> | I guess the type of <*> is in some sense the most simple type that offers Applicative functionality. Also not having intermediate tuples is good for performance. But it might not be the best way to teach Applicative. |
| 09:49:55 | <joel135> | I see. |
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| 10:00:41 | <kuribas> | Is it better to teach using an intermediate operator then? |
| 10:02:08 | <viluon> | hello, I'm rewriting Haskell ASTs (via a source plugin) and I'm using SYB to do so. I need to carry some context from the root to the leaves and also compute in the `TcM` monad, so I use a variation of `everywhereM` that works in a top-down manner. |
| 10:02:09 | <viluon> | However, I'm running into the issue of visiting the subterms of expressions I've rewritten, since the rewriting adds some (it transforms certain references like `x` into function calls like `f x`, which leaves the inner `x` to be visited again), so the operation gets stuck in an endless, ever-expanding loop. What can I do to prevent this? |
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| 10:03:41 | <joel135> | kuribas: Do you mean to give names to `f ()` and `f a -> f b -> f (a, b)` ? |
| 10:03:49 | <kuribas> | joel135: yes |
| 10:04:04 | <joel135> | I couldn't come up with any so far. |
| 10:04:24 | <[exa]> | viluon: would `everywhereBut` help? |
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| 10:04:54 | <[exa]> | viluon: (if it would have the monadic variant, ofcourse) |
| 10:05:44 | <viluon> | I tried running the recursive call (to `gmapM`) within the SYB scheme on the unmodified input AST, saving the result of the rewrite for later, then doing the replacement after recursion finishes, via a regular generic transformation using `geq` on the inside. That doesn't work because of the "fake" `Data` instance for `ByteString` which doesn't support all the required operations. |
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| 10:06:34 | <[exa]> | viluon: and well, software engineering solution: can you use your monad state to mark that you don't want to expand `x` again? |
| 10:06:57 | <viluon> | [exa]: I think I know how to modify the actual rewriting logic (rather than the SYB scheme) to avoid the infinite loop, I was looking for something general |
| 10:07:35 | <viluon> | [exa]: but yeah, I can definitely look at the state (in fact the shape of the expression I'm rewriting should be enough) to avoid recursing into it |
| 10:08:22 | <[exa]> | ah so, not sure if this is easily generalizable tbh, I'm still kinda new to syb stuff |
| 10:08:59 | <viluon> | I'm also new to this so I wanted to know if there's perhaps a smart/clean way of doing what I want that people know about |
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| 10:10:16 | <[exa]> | you might want to have a look at `uniplate` package, there's a slightly different look at all the abstraction |
| 10:10:39 | <viluon> | I'll check that out, thanks! |
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| 10:14:44 | <joel135> | kuribas: maybe one of https://paste.tomsmeding.com/fch2ZSia |
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| 10:57:41 | <joel135> | Trying to understand why `first' :: p a b -> p (a, c) (b, c)` is strength. |
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| 11:33:14 | <Jahn> | Hey guys, I'm revising for an exam here and got stuck at a very basic problem. |
| 11:33:15 | <Jahn> | Basically, I have a function to draw an ascii triangle on size input plus the repeat function redefined (task is such): |
| 11:33:15 | <Jahn> | repeat :: Int-> String-> String |
| 11:33:16 | <Jahn> | repeat n s = if n<= 0 then "" else s ++ repeat (n-1) s |
| 11:33:16 | <Jahn> | triangle :: Int-> String |
| 11:33:17 | <Jahn> | triangle n = if n >= 1 then triangle (n-1) ++ ((repeat (n) "*") ++ "\n") |
| 11:33:17 | <Jahn> | else "" |
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| 11:35:13 | <edwardk> | joel135: the () and (a,b) based version was included in the original paper on Applicatives |
| 11:36:43 | <joel135> | hi edwardk! i see. |
| 11:38:40 | <edwardk> | http://www.riec.tohoku.ac.jp/~asada/papers/arrStrMnd.pdf goes into the topic of strength here, but it might be a slow slog on first reading |
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| 11:38:59 | <joel135> | i already started reading it, thanks |
| 11:39:09 | <edwardk> | k |
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| 11:39:51 | <joel135> | I have gathered so far that any Arrow is a monad in Prof, and its strength in the sense of strong monads. Elaborately, `Arrow a` gives a profunctor `a :: *^op -> * -> *`, and this is a monoid with unit `arr :: (x -> y) -> a x y` and multiplication `(>>>) :: a x y -> a y z -> a x z`. |
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| 11:42:10 | <joel135> | I just need to work out that strength amounts to first' now. |
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| 11:43:34 | <txb920> | Apologies all for the total noob question - but why can I do "map (uncurry min) zip $ [1,2,3] [3,2,1]" (returning [1,2,3]) - but not "map (uncurry min) . zip" to compose a function accepting two arrays of integers? Just trying to get the basics straight in my head. How would I go about combining those functions? :-) |
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| 11:44:07 | <merijn> | txb920: That first one looks like a type error to me |
| 11:44:16 | <merijn> | Unless you have a custom/different 'map' in scope |
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| 11:45:03 | <merijn> | In fact, even if you do, that first one looks *entirely* wrong to me |
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| 11:46:55 | <lortabac> | it looks like a typo, ($) should be *before* zip |
| 11:47:13 | <merijn> | lortabac: Sure |
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| 11:47:50 | <merijn> | lortabac: But if I typo correct every beginner's question before I answer, then I end up answering the wrong question a lot :p |
| 11:48:03 | <txb920> | Connection died:D |
| 11:48:27 | <lortabac> | merijn: :) |
| 11:49:02 | <merijn> | txb920: https://ircbrowse.tomsmeding.com/browse/haskell?id=413034×tamp=1617104647#t1617104647 |
| 11:49:07 | <Philonous> | joel135, I've had good luck explaining Applicative in terms of »f a -> f b -> f (a,b)«, so I agree it's less daunting. |
| 11:50:10 | <txb920> | Cheers merijn. Ah, yeah. I do have the $ before zip, oops. |
| 11:50:18 | <lortabac> | txb920: (.) composes two functions that take 1 argument, but zip takes 2 arguments |
| 11:51:35 | <merijn> | txb920: Let's walk through some things |
| 11:51:53 | <merijn> | Let's start with "f $ x = f (x)" |
| 11:52:06 | <merijn> | If we introduce that in your example we get |
| 11:52:26 | <merijn> | map (uncurry min) (zip [1,2,3] [3,2,1]) |
| 11:52:30 | <merijn> | THat's obviously right |
| 11:52:47 | <merijn> | Now consider: "f . g = \x -> f (g x)" |
| 11:52:57 | <merijn> | That gives us |
| 11:53:14 | <merijn> | \x -> map (uncurry min) (zip x) |
| 11:53:25 | <merijn> | :t zip [] |
| 11:53:26 | <lambdabot> | [b] -> [(a, b)] |
| 11:53:45 | <merijn> | So "zip x" is a function expecting a list, mapping that makes no sense |
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| 11:56:54 | <txb920> | Hmm, great, thanks for that merijn. That makes sense |
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| 12:00:13 | <merijn> | txb920: Usually people ascribe too much magic to $ and . while in reality they're pretty straightforward functions :) |
| 12:02:11 | <peanut_> | accursedUnutterablePerformIO is magic. |
| 12:02:19 | <merijn> | :p |
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| 12:02:48 | <merijn> | peanut_: "People who like 'accursedUnutterablePerformIO' also liked: GHC.Prim" ;) |
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| 12:03:45 | <joel135> | @let x = 3 in x*x |
| 12:03:45 | <lambdabot> | Parse failed: Parse error: in |
| 12:04:05 | <joel135> | how to use lambdabot ? |
| 12:04:11 | <merijn> | > let x = 3 in x*x |
| 12:04:12 | <lambdabot> | 9 |
| 12:04:19 | <joel135> | >let x = 3 |
| 12:04:23 | <joel135> | > x*x |
| 12:04:25 | <lambdabot> | x * x |
| 12:04:29 | <merijn> | That doesn't work |
| 12:04:43 | <merijn> | > only accepts expressions |
| 12:04:52 | <merijn> | let without in is part of do notation |
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| 12:05:35 | <merijn> | > do { let x = 3; x*x; } -- I guess this should work |
| 12:05:36 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:20: error: <hint>:1:20: error: parse error on input ‘;’ |
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| 12:05:46 | <merijn> | > do { let x = 3; x*x } -- I guess this should work |
| 12:05:48 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:21: error: <hint>:1:21: error: parse error on input ‘}’ |
| 12:05:58 | <merijn> | oh, wait |
| 12:06:08 | <geekosaur> | let { x = 3 }; |
| 12:06:09 | <merijn> | > do { let { x = 3 }; x*x } |
| 12:06:11 | <lambdabot> | 9 |
| 12:07:35 | <peanut_> | merijn, I use GHC.Prim all the time :^) |
| 12:07:47 | <peanut_> | indirectly ;) |
| 12:08:04 | <joel135> | :t let (.:) = (.).(.) in map (uncurry min) .: zip |
| 12:08:05 | <lambdabot> | Ord b => [b] -> [b] -> [b] |
| 12:08:19 | <merijn> | peanut_: So does everyone writing Haskell :p |
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| 12:08:35 | <peanut_> | exactly |
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| 12:11:36 | <joel135> | Ok I worked it out. Strength is in general of the form `(F u) ⊗ v → F(u ⊗ v)` and in this case this means -- if you squint at it -- `(a x y, r -> s, (y, s) -> t) -> exists w. ((x, r) -> w, a w t)` which should boil down to first'. Indeed, it can be simplified to `a x y -> a (x, r) (y, r)` by 3 appeals to Yoneda that eliminate the variables s, t and w. |
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| 12:22:58 | <joel135> | http://hackage.haskell.org/package/profunctors-5.2.2/docs/Data-Profunctor-Strong.html#t:Pastro |
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| 12:23:30 | <joel135> | shouldn't it be Pastro -| Forget -| Tambara ? |
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| 12:24:44 | <joel135> | like Coproduct -| Diagonal -| Product |
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| 12:29:11 | <txb920> | Thanks joel135 for the pointfree version! Was wondering what it'd look like |
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| 12:59:52 | <joel135> | oh it is Pastro -| Tambara in the sense of a monad adjoint to a comonad, not in the sense of a functor (with different endpoints) adjoint to another functor |
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| 13:30:00 | <maralorn> | I have this super useful workflow of running hedgehog tests with ghcid. But hedgehog detects, that it’s not printing to stdout and therefore does not use the interactive, colorful progress report. Any tricks how I could work around that? |
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| 13:32:52 | <maralorn> | fd .hs | entr -- runhaskell MyTests.hs |
| 13:32:53 | <maralorn> | does for now. |
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| 13:33:04 | <opqdonut> | maralorn: looking at the source, could you use checkConfig with RunnerConfig with runnerColor set |
| 13:33:12 | <opqdonut> | err sorry, checkGroup |
| 13:33:15 | <merijn> | maralorn: You mean tricks that involve changing the code or not? :p |
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| 13:33:36 | <joel135> | is this related to https://stackoverflow.com/questions/911168/how-to-detect-if-my-shell-script-is-running-through-a-pipe ? |
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| 13:33:56 | <maralorn> | merijn: This is for work. So anything that get’s the job done. |
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| 13:34:28 | <merijn> | maralorn: It's definitely possible to *make* it work, but it depends how much time you're willing to commit :p |
| 13:34:59 | <geekosaur> | and effort |
| 13:35:07 | <merijn> | maralorn: Presumably as opqdonut says there's an override to force colour enabled in hedgehog, but if not you can cheat and make hedgehog *think* it's connected to a terminal |
| 13:35:13 | <ben3123> | Hey everyone, I am revising for an exam here and got stuck on the following exercise: |
| 13:35:15 | <ben3123> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com/jG3Pw6jm |
| 13:35:28 | <ben3123> | does someone have any tips? Thanks |
| 13:35:46 | <merijn> | maralorn: But that requires a bit of work, which might be more than you're willing to invest :p |
| 13:36:22 | <peanut_> | ben3123, deja vu... |
| 13:36:34 | <ben3123> | yeah, i copied it wrong :D |
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| 13:37:03 | <maralorn> | merijn: I will stick with my entr workaround. I guess it would only get a problem once compile times get to long and I don‘t expect that soon. |
| 13:37:24 | <merijn> | maralorn: Basically, you can write a wrapper program that creates a pty and starts your hedgehog tests attached to the pty. Then copy all data from the pty to the output |
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| 13:43:43 | <tomsmeding> | isn't that script(1) ? |
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| 13:54:06 | <maralorn> | > script makes a typescript of everything on your terminal session. |
| 13:54:06 | <maralorn> | Phew my Brain needed a while to understand that … |
| 13:54:08 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:27: error: <hint>:1:27: error: parse error on input ‘of’ |
| 13:54:23 | <maralorn> | * > script makes a typescript of everything on your terminal session. |
| 13:54:24 | <maralorn> | Phew my brain needed a while to understand that … |
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| 14:43:37 | <tomsmeding> | it's a bit of a hack -- you're completely uninterested in the typescript, after all -- but writing the script to /dev/null should fix that |
| 14:43:51 | <tomsmeding> | the point is that it opens a tty |
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| 15:25:46 | <CatWithMoustache> | what does this syntax do?: instance Something a => Something [a] where |
| 15:26:22 | <tomsmeding> | CatWithMoustache: if 'a' has a Something instance, then '[a]' has a Something instance as follows |
| 15:26:44 | <merijn> | I'd actually say the reverse (but that's nitpicking) :p |
| 15:27:07 | <merijn> | i.e. "[a] has a Something instance if (and only if) 'a' has a Something instance" |
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| 15:27:33 | <CatWithMoustache> | so if I can apply a function to a (I assume it has to be of type "Something") I can now apply it to a list of a's? |
| 15:28:00 | <tomsmeding> | CatWithMoustache: do you understand what 'instance Something [a] where' does? |
| 15:28:14 | <CatWithMoustache> | not entirely |
| 15:28:32 | × | dandart quits (~Thunderbi@home.dandart.co.uk) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 15:29:25 | <CatWithMoustache> | I think it forces all functions of "Something" to now be applied to the type after |
| 15:29:34 | <CatWithMoustache> | (or allows them to be applicable) |
| 15:29:36 | <tomsmeding> | it provides definitions for all the methods of the class 'Something' for lists of any type 'a' |
| 15:29:41 | <tomsmeding> | not "forces", provides |
| 15:30:11 | <tomsmeding> | % class Something a where foo :: a -> Int |
| 15:30:11 | <yahb> | tomsmeding: |
| 15:30:23 | <tomsmeding> | % instance Something [a] where foo l = length l |
| 15:30:23 | <yahb> | tomsmeding: |
| 15:30:27 | <tomsmeding> | % foo [1,2,3] |
| 15:30:27 | <yahb> | tomsmeding: 3 |
| 15:30:35 | <tomsmeding> | % foo 42 |
| 15:30:35 | <yahb> | tomsmeding: ; <interactive>:30:1: error:; * Ambiguous type variable `a0' arising from a use of `foo'; prevents the constraint `(Something a0)' from being solved.; Probable fix: use a type annotation to specify what `a0' should be.; These potential instance exist:; instance [safe] Something [a] -- Defined at <interactive>:28:10; * In the expression: foo 42; In an equation for `i |
| 15:30:49 | <tomsmeding> | % instance Something Int where foo i = i |
| 15:30:49 | <yahb> | tomsmeding: |
| 15:30:53 | <tomsmeding> | % foo (42 :: Int) |
| 15:30:53 | <yahb> | tomsmeding: 42 |
| 15:31:32 | <CatWithMoustache> | ah, so "instance Something a => Something [a] where" guarantees me, that I get an a of type "Something" and I'll be able to apply all functions on it - and then relies on me to implement all those functions if i get a [a] |
| 15:31:34 | <tomsmeding> | CatWithMoustache: see? before I added the 'instance Something Int where', 'foo' could not be applied to an integer; it only had a definition for lists |
| 15:31:59 | <tomsmeding> | kind of |
| 15:32:22 | <tomsmeding> | you're allowed to assume that Something's methods are already defined for 'a' when writing the method definitions for '[a]' |
| 15:32:50 | <tomsmeding> | because that declaration only makes [a] an instance of Something for all 'a' that are already an instance of Something |
| 15:33:35 | <tomsmeding> | % class C1 a where foo :: a -> Int ; instance C1 [a] where foo l = length l |
| 15:33:35 | <yahb> | tomsmeding: ; <interactive>:33:36: error: parse error on input `instance' |
| 15:33:43 | <tomsmeding> | % class C1 a where { foo :: a -> Int } ; instance C1 [a] where foo l = length l |
| 15:33:43 | <yahb> | tomsmeding: |
| 15:33:54 | <tomsmeding> | % foo [1,1,1] |
| 15:33:55 | <yahb> | tomsmeding: 3 |
| 15:34:16 | <tomsmeding> | % class C2 a where { foo :: a -> Int } ; instance C2 a => C2 [a] where foo l = length l |
| 15:34:16 | <yahb> | tomsmeding: |
| 15:34:20 | <CatWithMoustache> | thx. I think i got it |
| 15:34:22 | <tomsmeding> | % foo [1,1,1] |
| 15:34:23 | <yahb> | tomsmeding: ; <interactive>:37:1: error:; * Ambiguous type variable `a0' arising from a use of `foo'; prevents the constraint `(C2 a0)' from being solved.; Probable fix: use a type annotation to specify what `a0' should be.; These potential instance exist:; instance [safe] C2 a => C2 [a] -- Defined at <interactive>:36:49; * In the expression: foo [1, 1, 1]; In an equation for ` |
| 15:34:30 | <tomsmeding> | % instance C2 Int where foo _ = 42 |
| 15:34:30 | <yahb> | tomsmeding: |
| 15:34:32 | <tomsmeding> | % foo [1,1,1] |
| 15:34:32 | <yahb> | tomsmeding: ; <interactive>:39:1: error:; * Ambiguous type variable `a0' arising from a use of `foo'; prevents the constraint `(C2 a0)' from being solved.; Probable fix: use a type annotation to specify what `a0' should be.; These potential instances exist:; instance [safe] C2 Int -- Defined at <interactive>:38:10; instance [safe] C2 a => C2 [a] -- Defined at <interactive>:36:49 |
| 15:34:37 | <tomsmeding> | % foo [1 :: Int,1,1] |
| 15:34:38 | <yahb> | tomsmeding: 3 |
| 15:34:48 | <tomsmeding> | (that annotation is not the point of my story...) |
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| 15:35:07 | <tomsmeding> | C1 is available for all lists, C2 only for lists that also have C2 on the elements |
| 15:35:22 | <CatWithMoustache> | how do I apply a function with map on a list, if I the function takes two arguments (so the current element and a constant I wish to supply) |
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| 15:35:34 | <tomsmeding> | and for C2, I could've written 'foo l = sum (map foo l)', because foo works on the elements |
| 15:35:37 | <tomsmeding> | for C1 I could not have |
| 15:35:49 | <monochrom> | map (\x -> x*5) [1,2,3] |
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| 15:36:02 | <tomsmeding> | where (*) is your function |
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| 15:36:55 | <CatWithMoustache> | monochrom, perfect! |
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| 15:42:07 | <kamotaketsunumin> | but i didn't join this channel, how come |
| 15:42:16 | <peanut_> | one of us |
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| 16:11:20 | <geekosaur> | I noticed the we interface is now remembering what channels you were last in |
| 16:11:43 | <geekosaur> | *web |
| 16:13:17 | <CatWithMoustache> | how do I combine two lists linearely without in a list comprehension? (so [0,1,2] [5,6,7] to [(0,1),(1,6),(2,7)]) |
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| 16:13:31 | <CatWithMoustache> | without cross-summing? |
| 16:13:32 | <CatWithMoustache> | * |
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| 16:13:56 | <geekosaur> | > zip [0,1,2] [5,6,7] |
| 16:13:58 | <lambdabot> | [(0,5),(1,6),(2,7)] |
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| 16:15:09 | <CatWithMoustache> | thx! |
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| 16:22:01 | <tomsmeding> | geekosaur: web interface of what? |
| 16:22:30 | <geekosaur> | web.freenode.net |
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| 16:23:03 | <tomsmeding> | funny, your /whois address is just a plain IP, doesn't include 'kiwiirc' |
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| 16:23:07 | shachaf_ | is now known as shachaf |
| 16:24:09 | <geekosaur> | check the "real name" |
| 16:24:27 | geekosaur | doesn't have a cloak, which might matter |
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| 16:27:36 | <peanut_> | 🤔 |
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| 16:34:17 | <CatWithMoustache> | tomsmeding, I never liked that IRC-servers tell everyone your IP in a whois |
| 16:36:34 | <geekosaur> | they don't if you have a cloak |
| 16:36:54 | <CatWithMoustache> | geekosaur, or use tor |
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| 16:37:16 | <peanut_> | freenode blocks tor I think |
| 16:37:34 | <CatWithMoustache> | peanut_, \whois me :D |
| 16:37:41 | <geekosaur> | no, they permit it |
| 16:37:45 | <peanut_> | :O |
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| 16:38:03 | <CatWithMoustache> | freenode blocks my VPN-provider |
| 16:38:10 | <geekosaur> | and even have a registered endpoint |
| 16:38:35 | <CatWithMoustache> | but I pipe all my traffic through VPN, so I need to use tor in addition to connect |
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| 16:39:04 | <CatWithMoustache> | ajnvpgl6prmkb7yktvue6im5wiedlz2w32uhcwaamdiecdrfpwwgnlqd.onion btw |
| 16:39:22 | <CatWithMoustache> | (thats the address of freenode in tor) |
| 16:39:43 | <peanut_> | might as well give it a try |
| 16:40:06 | <CatWithMoustache> | peanut_, you get 30 min fun with certificates |
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| 16:40:22 | <CatWithMoustache> | as you need to transmit the cert to conect |
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| 16:47:53 | <peanut_> | needs registration with non-disposable email, I'll pass |
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| 16:50:14 | <CatWithMoustache> | peanut_, just go to 3rd page of ddg |
| 16:50:29 | <CatWithMoustache> | you should find one not banned there |
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| 17:02:21 | <peanut_> | nah, it's fine |
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| 17:10:19 | <tomsmeding> | geekosaur: re:"real name": lol of course, thanks |
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| 17:37:38 | <laudiacay> | whats .~ for a list |
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| 17:43:24 | <shapr> | Is there a fast count min sketch for Haskell? |
| 17:43:33 | <shapr> | I don't see anything on hackage |
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| 17:50:26 | <shapr> | laudiacay: maybe that's a lens? |
| 17:50:38 | <laudiacay> | yeah its definitely a lens |
| 17:50:54 | <laudiacay> | its like function . function . function .~ thing |
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| 17:57:49 | <needhalp> | hello lovely programmers, Ive been programming in functional languages for a while but I'd really interested in upping my code (I come from a more OOP background I guess?). Could I get a recommendation for a super good book on patterns for functional languages? |
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| 17:58:47 | <monochrom> | https://www.slideshare.net/ScottWlaschin/fp-patterns-buildstufflt |
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| 17:59:53 | <monochrom> | https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1a4GvI0dbL8sfAlnTUwVxhq4_j-QiDlz02_t0XZJXnzY/preview?slide=id.p also has some basic ones. |
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| 18:07:56 | <needhalp> | sorry I got disconnected and only got to see monochrom 's link to slidershare |
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| 18:08:41 | <monochrom> | Oh, then, I gave one more, but that's all, there was no one else. |
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| 18:08:50 | <monochrom> | <monochrom> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1a4GvI0dbL8sfAlnTUwVxhq4_j-QiDlz02_t0XZJXnzY/preview?slide=id.p also has some basic ones. |
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| 18:14:54 | <wroathe> | monochrom: Hahahaha. "shooting IMarineVerteberates in an AbstractBarrelProxyFactory" |
| 18:14:59 | <wroathe> | monochrom: This talk is off to a good start |
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| 18:19:57 | <abc__> | Guys, do you prefer learn a new language from books, documentation or tutorials? |
| 18:20:15 | <monochrom> | tutorials then books then documentation |
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| 18:20:53 | <geekosaur> | I prefer books first but this will vary a lot by person and by how they best learn |
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| 18:21:25 | <tomsmeding> | shapr: it sounds like a count-min sketch is easily implementable using an STArray? Not sure how you'd generate the hash functions though |
| 18:22:03 | <tomsmeding> | tutorials then documentation then random internet searching, I guess? |
| 18:22:21 | <shapr> | ah, I found an existing implementation |
| 18:22:28 | <shapr> | that's not on hackage and claims to be fast |
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| 18:23:05 | <geekosaur> | documentation is probably a bad first choice usually, it'll be set up as a reference and will thereby show you things in an order usually not conducive to learning |
| 18:23:28 | <geekosaur> | but having documentation around to support some other means of learning can be a plus |
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| 18:24:33 | <shapr> | abc__: I like to start IRC channels to learn a language |
| 18:24:52 | <geekosaur> | :) |
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| 18:24:59 | <shapr> | abc__: that is, I choose the unlisted option of asking people questions |
| 18:24:59 | <abc__> | It's my first time in a IRC channel :D |
| 18:25:03 | <shapr> | o hi! |
| 18:25:07 | <shapr> | abc__: what do you think? |
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| 18:25:44 | <abc__> | I think it's cool |
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| 18:25:53 | <shapr> | yeah, good points and bad points to IRC |
| 18:26:06 | <shapr> | if you join a quiet channel, you don't know if there's any activity |
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| 18:26:37 | <Lycurgus> | "fast count min sketch"? |
| 18:26:44 | <shapr> | Lycurgus: you got one? |
| 18:26:57 | <Lycurgus> | no, I'm asking what it is. |
| 18:27:02 | <shapr> | I just found one that claims to be fast, but hasn't been updated in seven years |
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| 18:27:09 | <shapr> | Lycurgus: https://florian.github.io/count-min-sketch/ |
| 18:27:13 | <Lycurgus> | ty |
| 18:27:20 | <shapr> | I collect probabilistic data structures because I like them |
| 18:27:37 | <shapr> | so bloom filters got me into counting bloom filters, and then count min sketch, and then cuckoo hash |
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| 18:27:49 | <shapr> | but I still haven't dug into hyperloglog :-( |
| 18:27:59 | <shapr> | abc__: how do you learn new languages? |
| 18:28:08 | <shapr> | I like to chat with native speakers |
| 18:28:24 | <shapr> | abc__: tudo bom! |
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| 18:28:27 | <abc__> | I learned python basics once from a book. I'm trying to learn some haskell and programming concepts now. I never made any programming tutorial |
| 18:28:41 | <Lycurgus> | you'll prolly find that in the right journal(s), hs is asking a bit |
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| 18:28:58 | <shapr> | Lycurgus: asking a bit? |
| 18:29:14 | <shapr> | ich verstehe nicht |
| 18:29:30 | <abc__> | tudo e voce? |
| 18:29:34 | <shapr> | Lycurgus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Count%E2%80%93min_sketch |
| 18:29:41 | <Lycurgus> | as opposed to just analysis of the algorithm, particular solutions not in any programming lang at all |
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| 18:30:00 | <shapr> | abc__: bom! (I only know what I learned in Capoeira class!) |
| 18:30:25 | <shapr> | Lycurgus: well, I found two count min sketch libraries in Haskell |
| 18:30:32 | <shapr> | one is seven years old, one is a year old |
| 18:30:38 | <shapr> | but the older one looks fast at first glance |
| 18:30:48 | <shapr> | heavy use of {-# INLINE #-} and friends |
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| 18:31:22 | kosmikus_ | is now known as kosmikus |
| 18:31:24 | <abc__> | Wow, capoeira is nice. My region don't have that :( |
| 18:31:24 | <shapr> | Gutentag kosmikus |
| 18:31:42 | <shapr> | abc__: it's fun, you should try it! |
| 18:31:50 | <kosmikus> | shapr: hi :) |
| 18:31:51 | <shapr> | @where cis194 |
| 18:31:51 | <lambdabot> | https://www.seas.upenn.edu/~cis194/spring13/lectures.html |
| 18:31:57 | <shapr> | abc__: that's a good link, try that? |
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| 18:32:10 | <shapr> | kosmikus: think you'll have time for IOHCC? |
| 18:32:26 | <shapr> | I'm recruiting entrants and judges! |
| 18:33:06 | <abc__> | i've never heard about that course |
| 18:33:20 | <shapr> | abc__: it's good! and free! |
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| 18:33:59 | <shapr> | abc__: you can also ask questions in here or in #haskell-beginners |
| 18:34:46 | <abc__> | ok, thanks. i will see that course now |
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| 18:34:50 | <abc__> | ok |
| 18:35:21 | <abc__> | haskell-br channel just have 2 people haha |
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| 18:50:11 | <Lycurgus> | http://dimacs.rutgers.edu/~graham/pubs/papers/encalgs-ams.pdf noteworthy for some of the applications, has c code links. At first I thought AMS was the math soc |
| 18:51:16 | <shapr> | Lycurgus: that and more in the readme for this lib "Finding Frequent Items in Data Streams", http://www.ece.uc.edu/~mazlack/dbm.w2010/Charikar.02.pdf https://sites.google.com/site/countminsketch/cm-eclectics https://tech.shareaholic.com/2012/12/03/the-count-min-sketch-how-to-count-over-large-keyspaces-when-about-right-is-good-enough/ |
| 18:51:17 | <shapr> | |
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| 18:53:31 | <Lycurgus> | shapr, ty |
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| 18:53:59 | <shapr> | Lycurgus: also http://dimacs.rutgers.edu/~graham/pubs/papers/cmencyc.pdf |
| 18:56:37 | <Lycurgus> | shapr, ack/ty |
| 18:58:39 | <kosmikus> | shapr: I don't know about IOHCC yet. When exactly is it again? |
| 18:59:38 | <shapr> | kosmikus: starts when #haskell turns 20, I'll send out an announcement this week |
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| 18:59:49 | <shapr> | Starts on April 30th 2021 |
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| 19:01:54 | <CatWithMoustache> | how do I get a property from a bool? |
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| 19:05:37 | <geekosaur> | are you talking about QuickCheck? |
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| 19:09:21 | <CatWithMoustache> | geekosaur, yes |
| 19:09:35 | <CatWithMoustache> | I'd like to return a property |
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| 19:11:36 | <CatWithMoustache> | essentially I want a property without precondition |
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| 19:12:42 | <geekosaur> | Bool has a Testable instance, so you can then use `property' to get the corresponding Property |
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| 19:14:54 | <CatWithMoustache> | ah, so simply True ==> thx! |
| 19:15:35 | <AWizzArd> | I have a list L of Foos, type [Foo]. Foo is a record with 10 fields: a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,j. Now I want to make a list of 8-tuples out of it, lacking the fields `a` and `j`, i.e. [(b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i)] |
| 19:15:39 | <AWizzArd> | Is there a better way than flip fmap L (\(Foo _ b c d e f g h i _) -> (b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i)) to achieve this? |
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| 19:16:03 | <geekosaur> | not really |
| 19:16:12 | <AWizzArd> | k |
| 19:16:16 | <jle`> | i would probably use a list comprehension |
| 19:16:21 | <jle`> | but not sure if that counts as 'better' |
| 19:16:28 | <AWizzArd> | jle`: What would it look like? |
| 19:16:35 | <monochrom> | I would revisit and impeach the need for the 8-tuple version. |
| 19:16:47 | <AWizzArd> | jle`: Instead of the fmap you mean? |
| 19:16:47 | <jle`> | [ (b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i) | Foo _ b c d e f g h i _ <- myList ] |
| 19:16:50 | <geekosaur> | there is that tooo |
| 19:17:12 | <jle`> | ah yeah, that's probably the more important point. if you're using an 8-tuple there is a chance that there is something deeper that is wrong |
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| 19:17:48 | <AWizzArd> | monochrom: two existing tables in Postgres. One delivers ten rows and those need to get shrinked a little before they get inserted into the other table. No real way of getting rid of that. |
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| 19:20:36 | <AWizzArd> | monochrom: but yeah, typically I would agree that one should try to see if this could be changed. But in this case the 10 fields come from json and need to be squeezed into an existing table of 8 columns. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
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| 19:24:06 | <jle`> | i guess you could create a different tpye that only has the eight fields |
| 19:24:21 | <jle`> | if they have the same field names then you can do map (\Foo{..} -> Foo2{..}) |
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| 19:34:32 | <AWizzArd> | jle`: that sounds not too bad, yes, good idea! |
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| 20:19:31 | <maerwald> | unlimited tuples |
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| 20:20:51 | <maerwald> | make them syntax sugar for heterogenous SLists |
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| 20:32:13 | <tomsmeding> | SList? |
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| 20:32:39 | <tomsmeding> | isn't a heterogenuous SList really a HList? |
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| 20:42:22 | <masterplain> | sorry monochrom I got kicked out many times again and again |
| 20:42:59 | <masterplain> | I'm the guy that has been programming with a functional language for a while but was looking for a reference on good functional design patterns to write better code |
| 20:43:12 | <masterplain> | thanks for sharing fsharpforfunandprofit<3 it looks good |
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| 20:43:50 | <masterplain> | with an OOP kind of background, I was hoping to get something with use cases or "when you're doing this, consider doing this instead" |
| 20:44:13 | <masterplain> | but something that goes beyond the basic fp ideas that Ive been picking up on the way |
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| 21:21:50 | <zephyz> | anyone have any pointer or guide to cross compiling with GHC? I want to compile my library for an ARM platform and expose it as a C FFI using my x86 computer |
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| 21:27:31 | <sshine> | zephyz, did you read https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/cross-compilation yet? |
| 21:27:37 | <zephyz> | Yes |
| 21:28:10 | <RamZess> | Hello ppl, I'm tring to compile a code with "inline-c" package. TH code contains C++. I've got an error "Couldn't match expected type ‘CInt’ with actual type ‘CBool’". But I'm sure that callling c++ method has a parameter of type "bool". It looks for like "inline-c" uses somehow a C style parameter recognition: uses int instead of bool like |
| 21:28:11 | <RamZess> | old good c. Any suggestions how to fix it? |
| 21:29:52 | <tefter> | C doesn't have CInt neither CBool |
| 21:30:28 | <RamZess> | tefer, "inline-c" translate c "int" into haskell CInt |
| 21:31:07 | <tefter> | so that inline-c figures that and generate code |
| 21:31:19 | <tefter> | I guess Haskell code |
| 21:31:23 | <RamZess> | and should translate corresponding C++ bool into CBool, but it gives me an error |
| 21:31:40 | <RamZess> | "inline-C" is a quasiquoter |
| 21:32:30 | <tefter> | well error is quite simple function that has CBool as parameter is called with CInt |
| 21:32:43 | <tefter> | you dind't wrote that? |
| 21:33:54 | <edwardk> | RamZess: you need to set up your context with the type mapping you want |
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| 21:34:20 | <edwardk> | RamZess: its fairly involved to customize it, but most of the common mappings can be accessed easily |
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| 21:34:54 | <edwardk> | 9the problem comes down to the fact that which dialect of c you are working in tends to have different conventions about how to handle boolean like results |
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| 21:35:08 | <edwardk> | so no one size fits all choice was available to bitonic |
| 21:35:17 | <edwardk> | so you have to opt into sets of translations or add your own |
| 21:36:14 | <edwardk> | when orking with inline-c or inline-c-cpp i'll typically build up a bunch of little helper contexts like: |
| 21:36:15 | <edwardk> | https://github.com/ekmett/codex/blob/master/freetype/raw/Graphics/FreeType/Internal.hsc#L690 |
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| 21:36:49 | <edwardk> | then mix it in with others like: https://github.com/ekmett/codex/blob/master/freetype/raw/Graphics/FreeType/Internal.hsc#L626 |
| 21:37:13 | <edwardk> | (that module uses a small context inside the file, then uses information gained to define a larger context used in later files) |
| 21:37:33 | <RamZess> | ahhh no, Let say I have a C++ function void enableThis(bool b). I can call it from haskell something like this [Language.C.Inline.block| enableThis($(bool myFlag::CBool)] |
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| 21:37:56 | <edwardk> | you often want several of these: https://github.com/ekmett/codex/blob/master/freetype/src/Graphics/FreeType.hsc#L339 |
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| 21:38:23 | <edwardk> | yeah you need to add a thing to the context that provides what FFI type 'bool' corresponds to and how to swizzle the haskell Bool into that 'bool' |
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| 21:38:53 | <edwardk> | e.g. is your Bool supposed to become a Word8 and then get passed as a char or a CInt? |
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| 21:39:02 | <edwardk> | different libraries will have different conventions |
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| 21:40:22 | <RamZess> | I'm compiling opencv binding (with opencv4). So it is expected to work like this: c++ bool -> mapped to haskell CBool |
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| 21:41:04 | <tefter> | C doesn't have bool as well |
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| 21:41:45 | <tefter> | if it is called inline-c I guess doesn' support bool |
| 21:42:42 | <edwardk> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/inline-c-0.9.1.4/docs/src/Language.C.Inline.Context.html#baseTypesTable |
| 21:42:55 | <edwardk> | (C.Bool, [t| CBool |]) |
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| 21:43:19 | <edwardk> | is the relevant line, so that goes into baseCtx |
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| 21:43:26 | <edwardk> | you need to ensure you have that context loaded |
| 21:43:43 | <RamZess> | tefter, the use "import qualified "inline-c-cpp" Language.C.Inline.Cpp as C" |
| 21:43:50 | <edwardk> | usually that looks like |
| 21:43:51 | <edwardk> | https://github.com/ekmett/codex/blob/master/freetype/src/Graphics/FreeType.hsc#L339 |
| 21:44:00 | <edwardk> | see how i add C.baseCtx there? |
| 21:44:05 | <edwardk> | do you have a similar line? |
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| 21:45:16 | <RamZess> | C.context (C.cppCtx <> openCvCtx) |
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| 21:45:25 | <edwardk> | add C.baseCtx to that list |
| 21:45:43 | <edwardk> | then inline-c will understand bools |
| 21:46:03 | <RamZess> | edwardk, thx I will try... |
| 21:46:10 | <edwardk> | C.cppCtx i think is _just_ the thing that sets up the extern "C" { ... } wrapper |
| 21:47:09 | <edwardk> | nevermind, i'm a lying liar. |
| 21:47:10 | <edwardk> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/inline-c-cpp-0.4.0.3/docs/src/Language.C.Inline.Cpp.html#cppCtx |
| 21:47:15 | <edwardk> | its included in cppCtx |
| 21:47:19 | <edwardk> | hrmm |
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| 21:49:30 | <edwardk> | note that CBool and whatever you get out of ffi may not be the same type, so eh, i tend to just make a little conversion to whatever convention the library works with rather than rely on that thing. adding something like https://github.com/ekmett/codex/blob/master/freetype/raw/Graphics/FreeType/Internal.hsc#L698 |
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| 21:50:02 | <edwardk> | then convert to/fro with $(FT_Bool whatever) |
| 21:50:15 | <RamZess> | ok |
| 21:51:09 | <edwardk> | it does require me to parse it on the back end when it comes out, which often turns into little /= 0 checks or the like: https://github.com/ekmett/codex/blob/master/freetype/src/Graphics/FreeType.hsc#L527 |
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| 21:52:25 | <edwardk> | i filed an issue to add support for negative antiquotation so you could add little 'on-the-way out' steps like that, so i could marshal haskell Bool in and out to the function cleanly without having the output direction be weird, but bitonic has been busy doing startup things |
| 21:53:17 | <bitonic> | edwardk: could you remind me of the issue, just in case? |
| 21:53:22 | <bitonic> | like, which issue is it |
| 21:53:59 | <bitonic> | i'm sure we discussed it but i can't find anything on https://github.com/fpco/inline-c/issues?q=is%3Aissue+author%3Aekmett so maybe it didn't end up being an issue |
| 21:54:25 | <edwardk> | basically an antiquoter gives you the tools for changing the value as it goes into the spliced code. but you don't have a way currently to hook an extra step on the way out when you might want to say bool is the result type and take the last step of converting the CBool -> Bool |
| 21:54:47 | <bitonic> | right |
| 21:54:50 | <edwardk> | yeah, i guess i filed it by throwing it at you over irc, rather than actually filing it ;) |
| 21:54:58 | <bitonic> | ok cool, i'll add it in my list of things to do when i'm bored! |
| 21:55:02 | <bitonic> | it doesn't sound very difficult |
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| 21:57:39 | <zephyz> | So…Nobody knows how to get GHC to output ARM64 binaries? |
| 21:59:15 | <edwardk> | zephyz: correct. complete mystery. |
| 21:59:41 | <tefter> | I don't think that ghc supports ARM |
| 21:59:53 | <zephyz> | tefter Oh |
| 22:00:16 | <mpickering> | zephyz: I think most people cross compile with haskell.nix |
| 22:00:16 | <edwardk> | zephyz: (honestly i've never had to cross-compile with it, so in my case it that is an actual true statement, but sarcasm in, sarcasm out.) |
| 22:00:18 | <mpickering> | have you tried that? |
| 22:00:44 | <zephyz> | that would partially explain why every documentation I find is about bootstrapping GHC itself rather than explain the correct options |
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| 22:00:55 | <zephyz> | mpickering I'm not familiar with haskell.nix, what is it? |
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| 22:01:49 | <zephyz> | mpickering oh, is this what you're refering to? https://input-output-hk.github.io/haskell.nix/tutorials/cross-compilation/ |
| 22:02:02 | <mpickering> | yeah |
| 22:02:26 | <mpickering> | apparently it's quite easy. I know people who regularly compile binaries for rasp pi |
| 22:02:53 | <zephyz> | fantastic, I'll give it a go! |
| 22:03:08 | <zephyz> | thanks! |
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| 22:05:02 | <tolt> | We use haskell.nix to compile for arm |
| 22:05:13 | <tolt> | Works well for us, just takes a while |
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| 22:29:45 | <dmj`> | zephyz: I've cross compiled Haskell to ARM using nix, it uses the LLVM backend. What tolt said. |
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| 22:31:29 | <dmj`> | zephyz: nix-repl> :b pkgsCross.aarch64-multiplatform.haskellPackages.hello |
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All times are in UTC on 2021-03-30.