Logs on 2021-04-20 (freenode/#haskell)
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| 00:26:20 | <toasty_avocado[m> | How do I make the second line in this statement syntactically correct: |
| 00:26:23 | toasty_avocado[m | < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/OVUmrfiGuozFYXzgftvuxgUl/message.txt > |
| 00:26:52 | toasty_avocado[m | < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/UjjlBapJjZbgBTRIOTOxMUKN/message.txt > |
| 00:27:08 | <toasty_avocado[m> | * ```twice_as_old father son | difference / 2 = 0 = difference | otherwise = (father - 1) `twice_as_old` son where difference = father - son``` |
| 00:27:57 | toasty_avocado[m | < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/sTEZxBvvBIzcraZkPHpMZexl/message.txt > |
| 00:28:09 | toasty_avocado[m | < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/JdSTSxyVDesrWNmNlNMklltO/message.txt > |
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| 00:29:51 | <geekosaur> | you're using = for equality, it's == |
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| 00:41:04 | <toasty_avocado[m> | Thanks geekosaur |
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| 00:53:23 | <toasty_avocado[m> | How do you type cast an int to a float? |
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| 00:55:05 | <geekosaur> | fromIntegral |
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| 01:04:06 | <Axman6> | toasty_avocado[m: to be clear, we don't cast things in Haskell. we use functions |
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| 01:06:37 | <toasty_avocado[m> | ok thanks! |
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| 02:55:09 | <jschofield> | who |
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| 04:04:05 | <isovector> | can anyone show me why this diverges? |
| 04:04:09 | <isovector> | knot :: State (Set String) a -> a |
| 04:04:11 | <isovector> | knot m = fst $ fix $ \(_, used) -> runState m used |
| 04:04:18 | <isovector> | i'd expect `knot $ pure True` to be `True` |
| 04:04:32 | <isovector> | importing Control.Monad.State.Lazy |
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| 04:05:55 | <isovector> | ohh is it the lambda? |
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| 04:07:18 | <isovector> | wow. using a tilde fixes it |
| 04:07:21 | <isovector> | no pun intended :) |
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| 04:09:39 | <c_wraith> | so using snd would also fix it |
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| 04:40:42 | mnrmnaugh | is now known as awk |
| 04:40:44 | <Guest78317> | hello haskell wizards |
| 04:40:59 | <Guest78317> | i have a thing that i just KNOW can be made horribly terse, but i am not sure how to do it |
| 04:41:02 | <Guest78317> | https://pastebin.com/0c5HxyRB |
| 04:41:15 | <Guest78317> | would anyone be willing to walk me through simplifying the code in that paste |
| 04:41:31 | <Guest78317> | i will appreciate it greatly!! |
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| 04:43:36 | awk | is now known as mnrmnaugh |
| 04:44:24 | <Cale> | func = maybe mempty (Map.fromListWith (++) . map (bar &&& bazzes)) foo -- perhaps? |
| 04:44:37 | <Cale> | oops, missed a (.) |
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| 04:44:52 | <Cale> | func = maybe mempty (Map.fromListWith (++) . map (bar &&& bazzes)) . foo |
| 04:45:26 | <Cale> | I don't know if it's really much better. I probably wouldn't bother to avoid the case expression |
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| 04:45:49 | <Cale> | But I also usually wouldn't define tups, and would inline that |
| 04:46:23 | <Cale> | I also don't mind the lambda |
| 04:46:45 | <Cale> | Using &&& is cute, but it's usually less easy to work with later |
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| 04:59:21 | <Guest78317> | lambdabot: |
| 04:59:27 | <Guest78317> | lambdabot: help |
| 04:59:32 | <Guest78317> | :help lambdabot |
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| 05:00:13 | <Axman6> | Guest78317: /msg lambdabot @help |
| 05:00:17 | <Guest78317> | oh |
| 05:01:16 | <Guest78317> | oh wow lambdabot pointfree just saved my life |
| 05:01:18 | <Guest78317> | wowie |
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| 05:16:50 | <sm[m]> | Guest78317: firing squad at dawn if you didn't make it shorter eh ? |
| 05:17:01 | <Guest78317> | kinda |
| 05:17:16 | <Guest78317> | more like embarrassing myself in front of the guy that hired me |
| 05:17:30 | <Guest78317> | which id prefer to not do because i would like to keep getting paid to write this sort of haskell |
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| 05:18:06 | <Guest78317> | i just need the opportunity to get paid to write haskell and i get better so quickly but |
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| 05:18:15 | <Guest78317> | these opportunities are rare compared to solidity.... |
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| 05:37:34 | <Axman6> | Guest78317: congrats on the job :) Worth keeping in mind the Haskell community is pretty small, so you may have colleagues in here :P |
| 05:37:53 | <Guest78317> | oh i almost certainly do |
| 05:38:03 | <Axman6> | "small" is a lot larger than when I started though, and now I'm on job #5ish using Haskell |
| 05:38:49 | <Guest78317> | i have an FT thing starting in september that i am like absolutely praying i can get to write something functional at least |
| 05:38:55 | <Guest78317> | i think rust is likely |
| 05:39:00 | <Guest78317> | which, meh. could be worse |
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| 05:39:59 | <Guest78317> | i applied to co-star and they ignored me :| and i dont wanna work at facebook for the love of god |
| 05:40:32 | <Guest78317> | don't know what other options there are out there but in5ish years i might be in here asking for places to apply |
| 05:40:42 | <gnumonic> | rust is fun. i made the mistake of learning haskell as a first language (self-taught) and of all the other languages i tried rust was the only one that didn't kind of feel like pulling my own teeth out |
| 05:40:48 | <gnumonic> | though i wish it had higher kinded types :-( |
| 05:41:24 | <juri_> | Guest78317: good luck. :) |
| 05:41:25 | <Axman6> | yeah :( |
| 05:41:48 | <Axman6> | gnumonic: you'd be surprised how many places there are these days. There's plenty of places which aren't Facebook |
| 05:41:55 | <Axman6> | uh, Guest78317 |
| 05:42:14 | <Guest78317> | i was talking to a few trading shops but i want to do open source more than trading |
| 05:42:38 | <Guest78317> | like nonhaskell meaningful open source work is a higher priority for me than haskell trading |
| 05:43:05 | <juri_> | Good on you. there are haskell free software shops. I happen to work at one. |
| 05:43:06 | <Axman6> | plenty of the companies doing cryptocurrency stuff do much of it as open source |
| 05:43:24 | <Axman6> | juri_: mind if I ask where? always good to know who there is |
| 05:43:34 | <juri_> | Axman6: wire.com |
| 05:43:51 | <Axman6> | oh nice, considered applying there since I know what they do |
| 05:43:58 | <Guest78317> | libp2p has an up-and-coming haskell implementation that i am like fingers-crossed someone will let me hack on |
| 05:44:08 | <Guest78317> | but that's really the only corner of the place i'm headed that is haskelly afaik |
| 05:44:28 | <Axman6> | get plenty of shoutouts on Security, Privacy and OSINT podcast for Wire |
| 05:44:39 | <Guest78317> | what other free software shops? im not going to like flake on my plans but im also just curious for more info on where i might hack in the future |
| 05:44:52 | <gaze__> | hey folks -- is there a good recommended library for talking to subprocesses? |
| 05:44:58 | <Axman6> | uh, "since I like what they do" no idea how that became know |
| 05:45:05 | <juri_> | Axman6: I'd recommend working here. put in an odd application, you might be surprised. |
| 05:45:07 | <gaze__> | I'm not even sure if pipes are the recommended way to plumb things together these days |
| 05:45:16 | <Axman6> | gaze__: talking how? |
| 05:45:31 | <Guest78317> | gaze__: you should call out to AWS and reverse shell back in |
| 05:45:32 | <gaze__> | just plumbing stdin and stdout, killing, starting |
| 05:45:39 | <Guest78317> | spawn an nginx instance for each |
| 05:45:44 | <gaze__> | disgusting |
| 05:45:46 | <Guest78317> | ok that wasn't even funny im just sleepy sorry folks |
| 05:45:53 | <gaze__> | yeah I'm upset now |
| 05:46:05 | <gaze__> | u better be sorry |
| 05:46:08 | <Guest78317> | dw |
| 05:46:27 | <Axman6> | juri_: You might struggle to beat my current contracting rate but I will consider it. I'd love to get the opportunity to play with more cryptography in HAskell, I did the recent BSIdes CTF all in Haskell and smashed out most of the crypto challenges |
| 05:46:37 | <gnumonic> | actually since this is on topic: is there a good central place to look for haskell jobs? the big sites seem like kind of a wash (search linkedin for haskell, 20k c++ jobs pops up) |
| 05:46:37 | <Guest78317> | Axman6: what team lol do i know you |
| 05:46:57 | <Axman6> | I was by myself - this was BSides Canberra |
| 05:47:12 | <Guest78317> | also i think the crypto library in haskell is missing primitives last time i tried to play with it |
| 05:47:14 | <Axman6> | @google functionaljobs |
| 05:47:15 | <lambdabot> | No Result Found. |
| 05:47:22 | <Axman6> | u wot |
| 05:47:38 | <Axman6> | Guest78317: "The crypto library"? |
| 05:47:51 | <Axman6> | there's plenty, but I've always found what I needed in cryptonite |
| 05:48:03 | <Guest78317> | cryptonite |
| 05:48:27 | <Guest78317> | i spent about 10 minutes like "noise protocol????" but then stuff was missing so i went and did other things instead |
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| 05:49:54 | <Guest78317> | srsly tho my background is "cryptography/distsys/machine learning master's" and lately "blockchain: have to fund the skincare addiction somehow", if anyone can rattle off places |
| 05:50:20 | <Guest78317> | i wanna have them on my rader for when i eventually leave this FT place and want to consult in a language that makes me happy |
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| 06:07:59 | <Axman6> | there is an implementation of the noise protocol in Haskell, the implementation of Wireguard relies on it (though that project is now abandoned by the wireguard authors). noise is definitely not crypto primitives though |
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| 06:08:28 | <gaze__> | oh also -- are conduit and pipes the recommended IO libraries these days, or is there something more modern? |
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| 06:09:00 | <Axman6> | IOHK would be probably the best known cryptocurrency/blockchain option, then there's where I'm contracted, Digital Asset, and a few others |
| 06:09:52 | <Axman6> | gaze__: I ahven't used any for a while, but I found conduit fairly easy to use. streaming is quite nice, streamly is supposed to be fast but I've never used it |
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| 06:46:11 | <koz_> | Pipes is also pretty good. Conduit has a bigger ecosystem I think. |
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| 07:03:27 | Server | sets mode +CLnt |
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| 07:08:04 | <Uniaika> | @hoogle concatMap |
| 07:08:05 | <lambdabot> | Prelude concatMap :: Foldable t => (a -> [b]) -> t a -> [b] |
| 07:08:05 | <lambdabot> | Data.List concatMap :: Foldable t => (a -> [b]) -> t a -> [b] |
| 07:08:05 | <lambdabot> | Data.Foldable concatMap :: Foldable t => (a -> [b]) -> t a -> [b] |
| 07:08:10 | <Uniaika> | lovesegfault: ^ ? |
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| 07:11:11 | <lovesegfault> | Uniaika: Ah, yes, that looks like it! |
| 07:11:13 | <lovesegfault> | Thanks :) |
| 07:11:36 | <Uniaika> | lovesegfault: 👍 have fun in Haskell-land! |
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| 07:27:58 | <lovesegfault> | The syntax is a bit alien right now, but I'm sure I'll get used to it :P |
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| 07:37:22 | <Axman6> | lovesegfault: flatMap is the name others have given to Haskell's (>>=) (pronounced bind), and you'll find list's implementation of the Monad class defines (>>=) as concatMap |
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| 07:48:38 | <johny9> | hi. can someone explain how this works? |
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| 07:48:51 | <johny9> | > [ (a,b,c) | c <- [1..], b <- [1..c], a <- [1..b], a^2 + b^2 == c^2 ] |
| 07:48:55 | <lambdabot> | [(3,4,5),(6,8,10),(5,12,13),(9,12,15),(8,15,17),(12,16,20),(15,20,25),(7,24,... |
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| 07:55:07 | <timCF> | Hello! Is there well-known name for `((f <$>) <$>)` ? |
| 07:55:19 | <timCF> | For example to map over functor in IO |
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| 08:21:05 | <edwardk> | timcf: fmap.fmap fmap.fmap.fmap build up the ability to map over layers like these in series. lenses generalize this pattern. cale (used to advocate for . being a better name for fmap, so the names :. for fmap . fmap = (.).(.) came up in various flavors, but its not standardly packaged into base. |
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| 08:28:29 | <merijn> | timCF: semantic editor combinators? |
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| 08:38:33 | <ski> | `(.) = fmap' used to be in lambdabot, along with a generalized `flip' along similar lines |
| 08:39:25 | <ski> | (i invented the name `.:' for `(.) . (.)' before this) |
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| 08:45:18 | <Squarism> | I just stumbled upon https://github.com/expipiplus1/vulkan . Anyone know if someone done a playable game with it? |
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| 08:49:21 | <merijn> | Define "playable" ;) |
| 08:49:33 | <idnar> | timCF: Relude has this as <$$> http://hackage.haskell.org/package/relude-0.7.0.0/docs/Relude-Functor-Fmap.html#v:-60--60--36--62--62- |
| 08:50:54 | <Squarism> | merijn, =D. Idk, something a non haskeller could download and run in 2 mins? |
| 08:51:52 | <merijn> | Squarism: Then probably not |
| 08:52:48 | <Squarism> | merijn, you know of *something* worth looking at outside those requirements? |
| 08:52:56 | <merijn> | Squarism: The closest thing to a "playable" game in Haskell I'm aware off would be something like Frag? https://wiki.haskell.org/Frag |
| 08:53:21 | <merijn> | But that's openGL, not vulkan |
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| 09:40:12 | <hc> | I remember an arcade-like game written in haskell, but I don't remember its name |
| 09:40:19 | <hc> | It was mentioned in the weekly haskell newsletter |
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| 09:47:17 | <gnumonic> | was it like dystopian pokemon but the pokemon are people or something like that? i think that's the only haskell game i ever played (was pretty good if i remember) |
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| 09:51:24 | <hc> | It was arcade like, a bit like commander keen |
| 09:51:46 | <hc> | I even had a brief e-mail exchange with the author, but I can't dig through my old e-mails right now |
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| 09:55:58 | <Cale> | Nikki and the Robots? |
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| 09:57:31 | <hc> | no, but that one looks interesting, too |
| 09:59:18 | <nut> | is there a way to write code in the style: obj.method ? example: [1..10].reverse |
| 09:59:35 | <nut> | I remember in the lens library, there is the & operator |
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| 09:59:48 | <Cale> | yeah, you can define flipped application |
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| 10:01:04 | <Cale> | If you're really evil, you could even import Prelude hiding ((.)) and then define x . f = f x |
| 10:01:19 | <Cale> | Everyone will hate your code then |
| 10:01:20 | <xsperry> | there's & in Data.Function |
| 10:01:39 | <nut> | haha, great idea |
| 10:02:53 | <nut> | xsperry: didn't know the & is from Data.Function! |
| 10:03:05 | <kuribas> | that's only recently, right? |
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| 10:03:21 | <Cale> | Yeah, I think that's more recent |
| 10:03:45 | <Cale> | and I think it's also possible that diagrams was the first library to define that one? |
| 10:04:03 | <Cale> | But yeah, definitely lens made it a good bit more popular |
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| 10:04:08 | <nut> | Are we talking about the & operator? |
| 10:04:11 | <Cale> | yeah |
| 10:05:00 | <nut> | For people transitioning into Haskell from somewhere else, it's a neat operator |
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| 11:47:28 | <alexm_> | hey folks, I'm doing fp-course (former NICTA course) and have been stuck on the filtering exercise for the Applicative part |
| 11:47:55 | <dibblego> | how far have you got so far? |
| 11:48:10 | <alexm_> | I've finally come up with this and feel like it can be made more elegant |
| 11:48:12 | <alexm_> | filtering _ Nil = pure Nil |
| 11:48:12 | <alexm_> | filtering p (x:.xs) = lift2 (++) (append x <$> p x) (filtering p xs) |
| 11:48:12 | <alexm_> | where append x' b | b = x' :. Nil |
| 11:48:14 | <alexm_> | | otherwise = Nil |
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| 11:49:42 | <dibblego> | you can try using (:.) instead of (++) in the condition test |
| 11:50:15 | <dibblego> | it is tricky, especially when doing it on your own |
| 11:50:31 | <dibblego> | usually by here, people have been given _LOTS_ of hints (and tend to ignore them anyway :) |
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| 11:51:41 | <dibblego> | try this: lift2 (bool id (x:.)) _todo (filtering p xs) |
| 11:51:42 | <alexm_> | when you say condition test which part do you mean exactly? |
| 11:51:49 | <dibblego> | append |
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| 11:52:24 | <alexm_> | ok, will try |
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| 11:52:33 | <alexm_> | thanks for the hint! |
| 11:54:28 | <alexm_> | that bool function is the one I was desperately searching for thinking about how can I do simple truthiness check in applicative context, sigh... |
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| 12:00:17 | <alexm_> | dibblego updated version is: filtering p (x:.xs) = lift2 (bool id (x:.)) (p x) (filtering p xs) |
| 12:02:56 | <alexm_> | I wonder, how do you arrive to such solution? is that a common pattern of sorts? |
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| 12:03:24 | <merijn> | type tetris, usually |
| 12:03:42 | <merijn> | "look at the pieces, make them fit" :p |
| 12:04:09 | <alexm_> | easier said than done :) |
| 12:04:13 | <kuribas> | the tuple trick usually works fine |
| 12:04:29 | <kuribas> | I write myFun = () $ partial_implementation |
| 12:04:38 | <kuribas> | then let the type system tell me what I need next. |
| 12:04:41 | <merijn> | alexm_: That's where experience with possible things kicks in :) |
| 12:04:52 | <merijn> | kuribas: You can do the same but better with _ |
| 12:05:07 | <kuribas> | merijn: I disagree. I find that tuple gives me usually better error messages. |
| 12:05:28 | <kuribas> | I only use typed holes for unimplemented functions. |
| 12:06:56 | <kuribas> | Also writing straigtforward but verbose code, then using rewrite rules to make it nicer usually works very well. |
| 12:07:18 | <kuribas> | And it's what I would recommend any beginner. |
| 12:07:43 | <kuribas> | Don't try and fit in every abstraction, just write code that solves the problem, then rewrite it. |
| 12:07:58 | <merijn> | That doesn't apply to homework :p |
| 12:08:33 | <kuribas> | Depends on the task? |
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| 12:13:45 | <dibblego> | alexm_: by now, we've told the class at least 50 times how lift2 works, and its intuition |
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| 12:16:34 | <merijn> | dibblego: So what you're saying is that about 50% remembers at this point? ;) |
| 12:17:28 | <alexm_> | dibblego: yeah, it takes some time to sink in I guess |
| 12:18:02 | <alexm_> | and actually implementing it helps a lot |
| 12:18:15 | <maerwald> | :t lift2 |
| 12:18:17 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 12:18:17 | <lambdabot> | • Variable not in scope: lift2 |
| 12:18:17 | <lambdabot> | • Perhaps you meant one of these: |
| 12:18:32 | <dibblego> | not even 10% usually |
| 12:19:18 | <maerwald> | never head of lift2 |
| 12:20:06 | <alexm_> | it's liftA2 actually |
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| 12:20:27 | <merijn> | dibblego: ;) |
| 12:20:38 | <alexm_> | it's just the function from the course named lift2 |
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| 12:38:01 | <basenode> | anyone here that i was talking to yesterday? |
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| 12:43:55 | ski | looks at basenode |
| 12:44:04 | <basenode> | ski: oh hey dude! |
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| 12:45:46 | <basenode> | just thought i would share the implementation for the algo we discussed yesterday, i didn't come up with it but it thought it was so elegant i had to share it |
| 12:46:28 | <basenode> | ski: -> https://dpaste.com/7VMXVC9XX |
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| 12:47:47 | <basenode> | all relatively self-explanatory, except Enum.group_by, which splits an enumerable into groups based on a function you pass it |
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| 12:50:38 | <ski> | what happens if you have more than one root ? |
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| 12:51:52 | <basenode> | it still works :) |
| 12:52:08 | <ski> | do you get the tree for the last root ? |
| 12:52:25 | <basenode> | yeah also |
| 12:53:59 | <ski> | (also what ?) |
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| 12:55:48 | <basenode> | ski: not sure i understood the question entirely, you were asking if i get the tree for the last root element? |
| 12:56:25 | <basenode> | "yeah also" as in yes, i also get the tree for the last root element |
| 12:56:26 | <ski> | yes, in case you have more than one `id' whose `parent_id' is `nil' |
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| 12:56:59 | <basenode> | yeah, all trees for each root element are returned |
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| 12:58:12 | <ski> | hm, okay |
| 12:58:37 | <ski> | i'm not completely following the details of the code, but from what i understand, it looks nice |
| 12:58:50 | <ski> | (and you're doing a top-down, rather than a bottom-up solution) |
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| 13:05:09 | <basenode> | ski: this implementation is from the creator of elixir (jose valim), but yeah it's a beautiful piece of code, all of my attempts were far more complex and didn't work lol |
| 13:05:23 | <basenode> | thought you might appreciate it though ;) |
| 13:06:14 | <ski> | ah, Elixir |
| 13:06:35 | <ski> | it's quite simple and elegant, yea |
| 13:06:55 | <ski> | (i wonder what the difference between `def' and `defp' is) |
| 13:07:28 | <ski> | (hm, the paste even said it, i just didn't notice) |
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| 13:12:00 | <lechner> | Hi, is there a way to round timestamps from getCurrentTime to microseconds (or even seconds) please? Thanks! |
| 13:16:15 | <joel135> | :t getCurrentTime |
| 13:16:16 | <lambdabot> | error: Variable not in scope: getCurrentTime |
| 13:16:41 | <joel135> | IO UTCTime |
| 13:16:55 | <ski> | @hoogle getCurrentTime |
| 13:16:55 | <lambdabot> | Data.Time.Clock getCurrentTime :: IO UTCTime |
| 13:16:55 | <lambdabot> | Data.Time.Clock.POSIX getCurrentTime :: IO UTCTime |
| 13:16:55 | <lambdabot> | Text.Pandoc.Class getCurrentTime :: PandocMonad m => m UTCTime |
| 13:18:57 | <joel135> | UTCTime ≈ (Day, DiffTime) |
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| 13:20:11 | <basenode> | ski: defp is a private function, not accessible outside the module |
| 13:22:14 | <geekosaur> | lechner, seconds is a Pico, see Data.Fixed for how to truncate or round |
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| 13:28:07 | <ski> | ok, ty |
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| 14:21:36 | <lechner> | geekosaur: Thanks! Can I still use iso8601Show to print the rounded time? |
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| 14:23:24 | <geekosaur> | you'd have to disassemble the time to round the seconds, so you would have to convert back and reassemble it |
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| 15:12:58 | <lechner> | thanks! |
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| 15:18:09 | <Monica81> | Hi look at my naked video? show here https://v.ht/Monika23 |
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| 15:20:44 | <Monica24> | Hi look at my naked video? show here https://v.ht/Monika23 |
| 15:21:30 | hyperisco | lights the monochrom signal |
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| 15:22:23 | <geekosaur> | bleh, half the admin commands odn't work from webirc |
| 15:23:00 | geekosaur | sets mode +b Monica*!*@* |
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| 15:23:35 | geekosaur | wonders where sigyn is |
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| 15:26:11 | <maerwald> | watching the videos? |
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| 15:26:15 | <maerwald> | badum-tsss |
| 15:26:34 | <hc> | lol |
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| 15:28:13 | <Uniaika> | haha |
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| 16:13:02 | <fendor> | I cant find what symbols are allowed as infix data-constructors in the Haskell 2010 report, can someone nudge me in the right direction? |
| 16:13:38 | <geekosaur> | any character with the Unicode Symbol category |
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| 16:15:08 | <geekosaur> | > generalCategory '*' |
| 16:15:10 | <lambdabot> | OtherPunctuation |
| 16:15:29 | <geekosaur> | > isSymbol '*' -- hm |
| 16:15:31 | <lambdabot> | False |
| 16:16:54 | <davean> | "Operator symbols are formed from one or more symbol characters, as defined above, and are lexically distinguished into two namespaces (Section 1.4):" |
| 16:16:58 | <davean> | https://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/haskell2010/haskellch2.html#x7-180002.4 |
| 16:17:51 | <fendor> | > isSymbol ':' |
| 16:17:53 | <lambdabot> | False |
| 16:17:57 | <fendor> | > isSymbol '<' |
| 16:17:59 | <lambdabot> | True |
| 16:18:19 | <geekosaur> | uniSymbol → any Unicode symbol or punctuation |
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| 16:18:46 | <geekosaur> | so OtherPunctuation passes. I do wonder at it slightly since |
| 16:18:55 | <geekosaur> | > generalCategory '"' |
| 16:18:57 | <lambdabot> | OtherPunctuation |
| 16:20:06 | <fendor> | so, does this mean an infix data constructor must start with a `:`? |
| 16:21:23 | <geekosaur> | yes |
| 16:22:19 | <geekosaur> | (otherwise pattern matching can't distinguish it from an infix variable; compare uppercase vs. lowercase prefix identifiers) |
| 16:22:42 | <fendor> | that was really hard to figure out from the report, imo. |
| 16:23:11 | <fendor> | ah, ok, makes sense |
| 16:23:39 | <fendor> | thanks! |
| 16:24:21 | <geekosaur> | seemed pretty clear to me in that section: "An operator symbol starting with a colon is a constructor." |
| 16:25:13 | <geekosaur> | doesn't say anything about type constructors, but anything interesting there is an extension to the Report |
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| 16:27:18 | <fendor> | this is what I figured as well, but I wasn't quite sure that this meant it is the *only* allowed symbol for an infix constructor |
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| 16:29:15 | <geekosaur> | "starting with a colon" seems clear enough to me |
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| 17:55:06 | <And1> | Hello everyone. It seems ghc(up) can be installed on Apple M1/Silicon via `curl --proto '=https' --tlsv1.2 -sSf https://get-ghcup.haskell.org | arch -x86_64 /bin/bash` … any ideas why ghc is not installable via `brew install` and is considered to not support Apple M1, yet? |
| 17:58:10 | <Uniaika> | And1: hi! I think you'd have a better answer with the maintainers of the brew formula |
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| 17:59:05 | <geekosaur> | they may be waiting for 9.2 which is scheduled to have preliminary native support, but you'd have to ask them |
| 17:59:28 | <And1> | Uniaika: Interestingly, I just realized that the command I posted above does not work for me on Apple Silicon, as stated here: https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/ |
| 17:59:53 | <And1> | It should work with this command, shouldn't it? I get: Unknown architecture: arm64 |
| 18:00:00 | <Uniaika> | hmm. |
| 18:00:01 | <Uniaika> | HMM. |
| 18:00:05 | <Uniaika> | maerwald: ^ |
| 18:00:07 | <maerwald> | And1: did you install rosetta? |
| 18:00:36 | <maerwald> | `softwareupdate --install-rosetta` |
| 18:00:56 | <yushyin> | maerwald: it looks like the new semester has started again ;D |
| 18:01:27 | <maerwald> | I almost switched to a mac, but they solder the RAM, so LOL... then I went with a thinkpad |
| 18:01:33 | <maerwald> | still no way to test mac stuff directly |
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| 18:01:54 | <And1> | maerwald: Thanks, let me check. (I would not quite believe I was using the M1 successfully without Rosetta for the last ~two months.) |
| 18:01:56 | <Uniaika> | maerwald: hope it wasn't an X1 Carbon :-P |
| 18:02:08 | <maerwald> | X1 extreme |
| 18:02:27 | <hyperisco> | maerwald, have you heard of System76? |
| 18:02:43 | <And1> | maerwald: Nope. It's installed, but I get the same error for ghcup. |
| 18:03:06 | <maerwald> | hyperisco: nope |
| 18:03:07 | <hyperisco> | if I need a laptop again it will definitely be from them |
| 18:03:12 | <Uniaika> | maerwald: aren't they soldered as well? |
| 18:03:13 | <maerwald> | looks interesting |
| 18:03:17 | <maerwald> | Uniaika: no |
| 18:03:22 | <Uniaika> | maerwald: nice |
| 18:04:11 | <hyperisco> | their objective is to be fully open sourced, but they face challenges with certain vendors |
| 18:04:35 | <maerwald> | And1: can you add your experience/problem here https://gitlab.haskell.org/haskell/ghcup-hs/-/issues/101 |
| 18:04:46 | <Uniaika> | I'd love to have one of those: https://frame.work/ |
| 18:05:01 | <And1> | maerwald: Sure. |
| 18:05:34 | <And1> | Uniaika: Maybe the MNT Reform would also be interesting for you then. https://mntre.com/reform/ |
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| 18:06:48 | <maerwald> | And1: I'm not sure why you get that error. Maybe try `arch -x86_64 /bin/bash` followed by `uname -m`` |
| 18:08:45 | <Uniaika> | And1: the more I look at the Framework Laptop, the more I want them to succeed… |
| 18:09:14 | <Uniaika> | And1: unfortunately the MNT Reform is not powerful enough for most of my needs |
| 18:09:26 | <Uniaika> | although it would make a good gift for a kid |
| 18:09:48 | <Uniaika> | oh wait that's the historical page |
| 18:10:10 | <And1> | Uniaika: Oh, is it? Sorry for that! |
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| 18:10:21 | <Uniaika> | And1: no worries, found the more recent page ;) |
| 18:10:25 | ← | ludi491 parts (~hryhorij@ip595.t15.ds.pwr.wroc.pl) () |
| 18:10:52 | <Uniaika> | oh wait, it's priced at $1500 :O |
| 18:11:07 | <Uniaika> | or $1000 |
| 18:11:07 | <And1> | maerwald: Executing both commands one after the other results in … arm64. That's weird. |
| 18:11:34 | <maerwald> | yeah, that sounds like a problem |
| 18:11:53 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 18:12:03 | <And1> | Uniaika: I think the first price is the built computer, the second is the diy kit. If I remember correctly. |
| 18:12:24 | <Uniaika> | yep |
| 18:12:25 | <And1> | maerwald: Just registered for the GitLab. Should I post what we just figured out? |
| 18:12:45 | <maerwald> | Uniaika: now I'm considering to switch to windows on my thinkpad, because energy management on linux is... |
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| 18:12:53 | <maerwald> | And1: yeah |
| 18:13:19 | <Uniaika> | And1: problem is that 4GB isn't enough at all :( |
| 18:13:43 | <Uniaika> | maerwald: did you even install TLP ? |
| 18:13:47 | <maerwald> | sure |
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| 18:14:06 | <Uniaika> | and yeah, energy management on linux is not on-par with Windows |
| 18:15:27 | <maerwald> | monitor scaling as well |
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| 18:16:42 | <monochrom> | My energy management experience is the opposite, linux saves the most, windows is being a hog. |
| 18:16:58 | <monochrom> | But it's a Dell laptop. |
| 18:18:50 | <maerwald> | it was hard to find a haskell suitable laptop that doesn't have this new keypad madness |
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| 18:19:22 | <maerwald> | not sure how you're supposed to do touch typing on such a laptop keyboard |
| 18:19:25 | <davean> | keypad madness? |
| 18:19:42 | <maerwald> | new laptops have a complete numpad thing on the right side |
| 18:19:52 | <davean> | Thats not new? |
| 18:19:56 | <monochrom> | Oh. Death to the numpad, sure. |
| 18:19:58 | <davean> | Thats just a full size keyboard |
| 18:20:08 | <maerwald> | yes, that's new for laptopts. |
| 18:20:15 | <davean> | No, that WAS standard |
| 18:20:22 | <maerwald> | I don't think so |
| 18:20:26 | <davean> | I think you're juts looking at larger laptops than you use to |
| 18:21:06 | <monochrom> | "Is this gaming keyboard?" meme >:) |
| 18:21:38 | <And1> | maerwald: done. |
| 18:22:08 | <davean> | maerwald: Its ironic though, because its touch typers who request the 100% keyboards |
| 18:22:30 | <maerwald> | source? |
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| 18:22:57 | <davean> | maerwald: Primarily business users who have to enter numbers |
| 18:23:45 | <maerwald> | well, I question that it's touch typers who primarily request this |
| 18:24:07 | <davean> | ok, whatever |
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| 18:24:39 | <monochrom> | I guess business users have the majority of touch typers and the majority of non-touch typers too. |
| 18:24:40 | <maerwald> | it causes a really awkward non-symmetric hand position |
| 18:25:19 | <hyperisco> | designers should consider the organ when designing computer keyboards |
| 18:25:23 | <davean> | maerwald: only if you center on the laptop not the keyboard |
| 18:25:29 | <maerwald> | correct |
| 18:26:28 | <maerwald> | now your face isn't in the center anymore :p |
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| 18:27:47 | <monochrom> | Hey there was a Hong Kong TV drama show that attempted to tell the story of a software startup. Their notion of programming was having some 3x3 grid of 9 digits on the screen, and hitting the keyboard to mutate the digits. |
| 18:27:59 | <monochrom> | Perhaps the numpad would be perfect for those "devs". >:) |
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| 18:28:23 | <maerwald> | I'm building my own keyboard anyway (which I don't recommend anyone... it's a time sink) |
| 18:28:31 | <monochrom> | Oh they would complain about non-symmetric hand position too --- the numpad was not at the centre. >:D |
| 18:28:53 | <maerwald> | but so far most external keyboards, no matter if ergonomic or not are worse than a thinkpad keyboard |
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| 18:29:18 | <hyperisco> | monochrom, sounds like they were playing minesweeper |
| 18:29:38 | <monochrom> | And do not think that the movie Ex Machina does it much better. Only slightly better. |
| 18:30:17 | <monochrom> | Their notion of re-programming the house's computer-controlled security system was writing find-primes-by-trial-division in Python. |
| 18:30:27 | <maerwald> | davean: what I want is an ortholinear laptop keyboard... afaik this has never been done |
| 18:30:39 | <maerwald> | which is understandable... it's a niche market |
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| 18:31:31 | <maerwald> | And1: you could try downloading ghcup binary directly and then do the arch trick with it |
| 18:32:09 | <maerwald> | maybe it's just a shell issue |
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| 18:32:25 | <maerwald> | And1: https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghcup/0.1.14.1/ |
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| 18:32:52 | <And1> | maerwald: I'm using bash as default shell. But probably this information is unnecessary, as the arch command also launches /bin/bash … :D |
| 18:33:02 | <maerwald> | I remember docker also misbehaves with uname if you're in a 32bit docker container on a 64bit host |
| 18:33:20 | <maerwald> | the shell script you're invoking runs `uname -m` |
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| 18:33:31 | <maerwald> | the binary itself not, so it should work under rosetta |
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| 18:33:47 | <And1> | maerwald: Pardon, how would I test/run the binary? |
| 18:33:51 | <maerwald> | maybe they changed how uname behaves on rosetta |
| 18:34:01 | <yushyin> | maerwald: I would also like an ortholinear laptop keyboard! |
| 18:34:18 | <maerwald> | And1: you download the binary and run it via `arch -x86_64 binary` |
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| 18:35:02 | <maerwald> | yushyin: yeah, it's a bit annoying to switch between an ortho-split external keyboard and a regular laptop one |
| 18:35:35 | <maerwald> | hell, why not laptop-split keyboard... but only mac would do that |
| 18:35:50 | <monochrom> | My ortholinear keyboard was from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casio_FX-702P . Also ABCDE keyboard. :) |
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| 18:36:21 | <And1> | maerwald: Oh, macOS won't let me run the binary. Probably need to disable some security features or whatever. :-o |
| 18:36:37 | <maerwald> | yeah |
| 18:36:57 | <maerwald> | darwin notarization or something |
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| 18:37:10 | <And1> | Damn. :D |
| 18:37:26 | <maerwald> | they mean well |
| 18:37:46 | <maerwald> | I guess that sums up apple |
| 18:39:16 | <And1> | Heh, yeah. That's more than can be said about Google and others, I guess; in regards privacy/security at least. |
| 18:41:00 | <fendor> | @pl \x y z -> ((x,y), z) |
| 18:41:01 | <lambdabot> | ((,) .) . (,) |
| 18:51:46 | <minoru_shiraeesh> | laptop keyboard designers could create narrow buttons for numbers, like this |
| 18:51:49 | <minoru_shiraeesh> | | | | |
| 18:51:51 | <minoru_shiraeesh> | | | | |
| 18:51:53 | <minoru_shiraeesh> | | | | |
| 18:52:22 | <maerwald> | like the F-key ones on kinesis advantage 2? |
| 18:52:27 | <maerwald> | They are hilarious |
| 18:52:43 | <maerwald> | but hard to get right without looking at them |
| 18:53:41 | <maerwald> | external numpad is much more sensible imo |
| 18:54:04 | <cjay> | And1: xattr -r -d com.apple.quarantine <dir> |
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| 18:55:24 | <minoru_shiraeesh> | I remeber being obsessed with the idea of buying very small, almost phone-sized computer |
| 18:55:39 | <minoru_shiraeesh> | there was a track pad in the middle of a keyboard |
| 18:56:06 | <minoru_shiraeesh> | it was sony vaio |
| 18:57:04 | <minoru_shiraeesh> | https://youtu.be/nEBvGDwbh0Y |
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| 18:58:33 | <maerwald> | "and comfortably touch type" ...looking at how the wrists are bent, I predict RSI within 3 months |
| 19:00:09 | <maerwald> | most keyboards have RSI speedup legs at the rear side, so the rear is lifted up |
| 19:00:24 | <maerwald> | while your wrists need the opposite thing |
| 19:00:58 | <Rembane> | I find that fascinating. I suppose it's an odd fossil from typewriters. |
| 19:01:47 | <And1> | cjay: Wow, thanks. Thought that would no longer work under Big Sur; good to know! |
| 19:02:06 | <And1> | maerwald: Missing: COMMAND … so, I guess that works. :) |
| 19:02:17 | <maerwald> | And1: run `ghcup tui` |
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| 19:02:39 | <maerwald> | so... this could mean that rosetta changed how uname behaves? |
| 19:02:58 | <maerwald> | that's a good method to globally break all sorts of scripts |
| 19:03:07 | <And1> | maerwald: Looking at a very nice TUI now. |
| 19:03:17 | <And1> | Sounds ridiculous somehow. |
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| 19:03:43 | <maerwald> | I'm not sure what's going on. Maybe the other guy from the issue can chime in |
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| 19:07:04 | <yushyin> | maerwald: https://i.redd.it/cknkubh7nib61.jpg :D |
| 19:07:21 | <maerwald> | damn |
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| 19:07:57 | <maerwald> | maybe I'll try that after I finish my lagrange keyboard |
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| 19:08:27 | <And1> | yushyin: WOW. :D |
| 19:08:45 | <monochrom> | That's l33t. :) |
| 19:10:21 | <yushyin> | I'm happy with my redox keyboard, but laptop keyboards are now problematic to use |
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| 19:11:46 | <maerwald> | yushyin: https://github.com/dpapavas/lagrange-keyboard#the-lagrange-keyboard |
| 19:13:33 | <yushyin> | ahh yes, I know about dactyl at least |
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| 19:13:54 | <maerwald> | yeah, this is better than dactly imo, especially the build is very well parametrized |
| 19:14:12 | <maerwald> | and you can print different stands for different tenting angles |
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| 19:15:06 | <yushyin> | linked it to a friend who was about to build a dactyl |
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| 19:15:32 | <maerwald> | but the controller is fully custom soldering, so you need some serious patience there |
| 19:17:11 | <fresheyeball> | so I wrote a TH thing, like this foo :: String -> Q Exp |
| 19:17:21 | <fresheyeball> | I can use it just fine like so |
| 19:17:26 | <fresheyeball> | $(foo "bar") |
| 19:17:42 | <fresheyeball> | is there a way I can view the generated haskell code in ghci? |
| 19:20:48 | <fresheyeball> | runQ $ foo "bar" |
| 19:20:59 | <fresheyeball> | works but it's not exactly easy to read Exp literals |
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| 19:26:50 | <geekosaur> | :set -ddump-splices ? |
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| 19:29:34 | <fresheyeball> | geekosaur: thanks |
| 19:29:36 | <fresheyeball> | that worked |
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| 20:20:17 | <BG-Haskell> | Hello All |
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| 20:25:00 | <geekosaur> | ohai? |
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| 20:53:20 | <tatsumaru> | hey guys, |
| 20:53:52 | <tatsumaru> | why does [3, 4, 2] > [3, 4] return 'True' instead of an error? Isn't the "2" evaluated? |
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| 20:55:16 | <glguy> | tatsumaru: lists use "lexicographic" ordering |
| 20:55:45 | <glguy> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexicographic_order |
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| 20:56:29 | <tatsumaru> | "One variant applies to sequences of different lengths by comparing the lengths of the sequences before considering their elements. " |
| 20:56:39 | <tatsumaru> | so basically the 2 isn't considered because the second list is shorter? |
| 20:57:20 | <monochrom> | But Haskell's Ord for [a] doesn't use the variant. |
| 20:58:12 | <edwardk> | > "abc" > "ab" |
| 20:58:14 | <lambdabot> | True |
| 20:58:18 | <edwardk> | ^- same thing |
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| 20:58:53 | <tatsumaru> | edwardk not getting how this is helpful |
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| 20:59:20 | <edwardk> | this is the same thing that is happening in haskell, it is using lexicographical ordering on lists, the very ordering you use when you find things in a dictionary. |
| 20:59:26 | <monochrom> | When sorting names we choose "louie" < "louies". The standard library simply extends this from [Char] to [a]. |
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| 21:00:12 | <tatsumaru> | alright, but I still don't understand why the 2 doesn't get evaluated |
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| 21:01:07 | <monochrom> | Does it help if you know "[3,4]" is syntax sugar for "3 : (4 : [])"? |
| 21:01:17 | <edwardk> | compare (x:xs) (y:ys) = case compare x y of { LT -> LT; EQ -> compare xs ys; GT -> GT }; compare [] [] = EQ; compare [] (_:_) = LT; compare (_:_) [] = GT |
| 21:01:33 | <monochrom> | and then that. |
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| 21:01:59 | <edwardk> | when it starts it compares 3:4:2:[] with 3:4:[]. so we start on the first compare pattern, which then compares 3 with 3, gets EQ and compares the tails |
| 21:02:10 | <monochrom> | Near the end of the recursive algorithm, it is comparing [] against non-[], done, doesn't even care. |
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| 21:02:32 | <edwardk> | we then compare 4:2:[] with 4:[] -- which compares the heads (compare 4 4 yields EQ, which recurses again with 2:[] and [] |
| 21:02:34 | <monochrom> | > [] < undefined : undefined |
| 21:02:36 | <lambdabot> | True |
| 21:02:56 | <edwardk> | now we fall into the last case compare (_:_) [] = GT |
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| 21:03:11 | <edwardk> | > [2] > [] |
| 21:03:13 | <lambdabot> | True |
| 21:04:00 | <edwardk> | lexicographical comparison is comparing element by element through the two lists until one of the lists runs out and the other doesn't, or until it encounters a difference in the values contained. |
| 21:04:19 | <edwardk> | so notice how compare (_:_) [] = GT -- didn't care a whit about what you stored in the list. |
| 21:04:45 | <tatsumaru> | i am not familiar with the (_:_) construction yet |
| 21:04:49 | <edwardk> | > 'a':'b':(undefined:[]) > "ab" |
| 21:04:51 | <lambdabot> | True |
| 21:05:05 | <edwardk> | (_:_) is just a pattern throwing away both the x and the xs in the pattern match |
| 21:05:26 | <edwardk> | foo (x:xs) = "hello" could be written as foo (_:_) = "hello" -- since the body doesn't need the name x or xs. |
| 21:05:29 | <monochrom> | The _ is "wildcard pattern" and it matches unconditionally and also doesn't care. |
| 21:05:36 | <edwardk> | const a _ = a |
| 21:05:42 | <edwardk> | throws away the second argument |
| 21:05:59 | <monochrom> | The : you're supposed to know if you use Haskell lists at all. |
| 21:06:15 | <edwardk> | : is just how you cons onto a list. |
| 21:06:15 | <tatsumaru> | well IIUC : means append to the beginning of the list |
| 21:06:20 | <edwardk> | > 1:2:3:[] |
| 21:06:22 | <lambdabot> | [1,2,3] |
| 21:06:37 | <edwardk> | > case [1,2,3] of x:xs -> x |
| 21:06:40 | <lambdabot> | 1 |
| 21:06:44 | <edwardk> | > case [1,2,3] of x:xs -> xs |
| 21:06:46 | <lambdabot> | [2,3] |
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| 21:08:20 | <edwardk> | so basically the definition of compare for lists matches on the two lists, walks through them if they both have elements it compares the heads and proceeeds recursively if they are the same, if they both are empty they are the same, and if one has elements and the other does not then the one with elements is considered greater. just like how 'dogfood' comes after 'dog' in the dictionary. |
| 21:08:22 | <ski> | > let x:xs = [1,2,3] in (x,xs) |
| 21:08:24 | <lambdabot> | (1,[2,3]) |
| 21:09:18 | <tatsumaru> | so basically it interchanges between different definitions of greater depending on the case? |
| 21:09:43 | <tatsumaru> | sometimes it's greater because 3 > 2 and sometimes it's greater because the list is longer |
| 21:09:45 | <monochrom> | I don't understand that question. |
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| 21:10:21 | <edwardk> | the only time it ever 'compares list lengths' is when one ran out of elements completely. |
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| 21:10:25 | <xsperry> | tatsumaru, what would you prefer? that smaller list is greater? that an error is thrown? |
| 21:10:36 | <xsperry> | (or rather returned) |
| 21:10:46 | <geekosaur> | and why? |
| 21:11:19 | <tatsumaru> | I am not making preferences just trying to figure it out |
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| 21:11:46 | <monochrom> | And there are two "it"s that clearly refer to two unrelated things so the question reflects that you are thinking unclearly. |
| 21:11:46 | <tatsumaru> | in terms of what would make most sense to me as a noob programmer is that it would throw an error because one list has more indexes than the other |
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| 21:12:51 | <ski> | each list can be either empty or non-empty. since there's two lists, that makes four combinations. both empty means they lists are equal. one empty and one non-empty means the empty one is less than the non-empty one. both non-empty .. then we compare the first element of both lists. only if they're equal do we continue to compare the tails of the two lists |
| 21:13:02 | <nut> | what is the time complexity of list join (++) ? |
| 21:13:12 | <ski> | join ? |
| 21:13:17 | <nut> | concat |
| 21:13:39 | <edwardk> | that isn't terribly useful if you want to, say, use those lists as a key in a map. here we want 'Ord' to give us a comparison that is a total function that tells us if xs < ys, if xs == ys, or if xs > ys. that is the role served by compare, by <, <=, =>, >, ==, /= in haskell. |
| 21:13:40 | <ski> | `xs ++ ys' takes time proportional to the length of `xs' |
| 21:13:42 | <monochrom> | The time cost of xs++ys is proportional to the length of xs. |
| 21:13:43 | <edwardk> | they are 'total' |
| 21:14:08 | <xsperry> | tatsumaru, sort function uses <. if Ord for list was defined the way you propose, you could only sort a list of strings if all the strings were of the same length. |
| 21:14:17 | <monochrom> | ys and xs++ys can share the ys part. |
| 21:14:23 | <tatsumaru> | if longer lists are greater then why is [2, 2] > [3] false ? |
| 21:14:40 | <monochrom> | 2<3 |
| 21:14:51 | <monochrom> | GG |
| 21:14:53 | <ski> | because the remainder of the lists are only considered, in case the head elements differ |
| 21:14:57 | <nut> | ski: i see, you'd have to traverse xs |
| 21:15:06 | <monochrom> | ski: Eqaul! |
| 21:15:12 | <edwardk> | on the other hand you could well come up with a class for 'partial orders' where the question a <=? b = False and b <=? a = False at the same time is perfectly acceptable. no 'errors' need be thrown, then you could say for that that two lists can only compare as <=? if, say they are exactly the same length _and_ say, every single element compares as <= its corresponding sibling in the other list. |
| 21:15:22 | <monochrom> | nut: It also has to clone xs. |
| 21:15:35 | <tatsumaru> | so this is what puzzles me whether the boolean output is based on the total length of the list or on comparing each individual integers to each other |
| 21:15:40 | <edwardk> | tatsumaru: why does 'catfood' come before 'dog' in the dictionary? |
| 21:15:42 | <ski> | in `[2,2] > [3]', we have `2 < 3', hence the list comparision is `False'. we never get to comparing the tails, per `[2] > []' |
| 21:16:16 | <tatsumaru> | edwardk ok this made it clearer, basically both things matter |
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| 21:18:50 | <ski> | tatsumaru : corresponding elements are compared, successively. we only continue this comparision, as long as previous corresponding element comparisions have turned out to compare equal, and (obviously) as long as there's more elements of both lists to compare with each other. so, as soon as one (or both) lists end, this process also stops. but it also stops if an element comparision compares not equal |
| 21:19:14 | <tatsumaru> | just realized you could actually do this with char as well "catfood" < "dog" |
| 21:19:20 | <edwardk> | think of this as walking through both lists discarding common prefixes. when you're done discarding the common prefix, the next elements if they exist disagree. which one comes first? if they both don't exist, its becauseyour lists are the same, if one exists and the other doesn't, its because you are looking at something like the "dog" vs "dogfood" |
| 21:19:21 | <ski> | yep |
| 21:20:15 | <ski> | tatsumaru : as an exercise, you could define `lessThan :: Ord a => [a] -> [a] -> Bool' yourself ? |
| 21:21:01 | <tatsumaru> | I am not sure what that means yet I am literally on chapter 1 of the book. |
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| 21:21:20 | <tatsumaru> | is this a function definition |
| 21:21:26 | <ski> | yes, it would be |
| 21:21:48 | <geekosaur> | well, strictly speaking that was the type signature for a function |
| 21:22:07 | <ski> | (what i gave would be the corresponding type signature. if you prefer, you could do e.g. `lessThan :: [Integer] -> [Integer] -> Bool' instead. or `lessThan :: [Char] -> [Char] -> Bool') |
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| 21:24:39 | <tatsumaru> | by the way is the new haskell 2020 spec going to be compatible with what I am learning right now? |
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| 21:24:55 | <tatsumaru> | which is haskell 2010 |
| 21:24:55 | <monochrom> | There is no Haskell 2020. |
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| 21:25:35 | <tatsumaru> | hmm, the wiki says 'Haskell 2020 announced' preview release |
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| 21:59:10 | <nut> | if (++) in Data.List is too slow, what data structure to consider for fast concat ? |
| 21:59:55 | <monochrom> | Data.Sequence.Seq |
| 22:00:11 | <nut> | thanks |
| 22:00:23 | <monochrom> | without actually knowing your context or application or problem domain |
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| 22:02:54 | <nut> | monochrom: I'm doing a tree traversal algorithm. I get a list from both left and right subtree which I need to combime |
| 22:03:38 | <nut> | monochrom: So I suppose instead of list, I can try a Seq a |
| 22:04:26 | <monochrom> | "difference list" i.e. [a]->[a] |
| 22:05:42 | <nut> | monochrom: wow, thanks! |
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| 22:06:01 | <monochrom> | Instead of Tree->[X], have f::Tree->[X]->[X]. f (Branch left right) = f left . f right; f (Leaf x) = \s -> x : s |
| 22:06:38 | <monochrom> | For the whole tree, use "f my_whole_tree []". |
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| 22:07:32 | <nut> | Is this Haskell specific data structure? monochrom |
| 22:07:51 | <monochrom> | No, you can do this for every FP language. |
| 22:07:53 | <nut> | monochrom: I can't seem to find references in other languages |
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| 22:08:09 | <nut> | non FP languages |
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| 22:08:15 | <monochrom> | But then I guess it is best used with laziness. |
| 22:08:24 | <monochrom> | s/non/anti/ |
| 22:08:37 | <monochrom> | Clearly, anti FP got to be anti F. |
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| 22:08:51 | <nut> | haha |
| 22:09:14 | <monochrom> | "Tree->[X]->[X]" fundamentally requires one to be serious about functions. |
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| 22:09:40 | <monochrom> | Or at least the function composition in "f left . f right" |
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| 22:10:28 | <nut> | What do you mean? |
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| 22:10:55 | <monochrom> | An anti-FP language will not make it easy to use function composition. |
| 22:12:46 | <nut> | monochrom: In your previous code, you've added a [X]. Is it supposed to be an accumulator? |
| 22:13:12 | <monochrom> | whereas the difference list trick is built around function composition. |
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| 22:13:26 | <nut> | i see |
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| 22:13:52 | <nut> | So your code snippets demonstrates the use of function composition |
| 22:14:12 | <nut> | But I don't see how that composition made things fast |
| 22:14:49 | <nut> | monochrom: do you mean it turned concat into function application? |
| 22:14:53 | <monochrom> | I don't know what counts as accumulator. The [X] parameter is a suffix. f does prepending. |
| 22:14:54 | <monochrom> | f (Branch (Leaf x) (Leaf y)) suffix = x : y : suffix |
| 22:15:03 | <monochrom> | Yes |
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| 22:15:29 | <geekosaur> | I think they meant the type signature and [X] was "list of X" |
| 22:15:47 | <nut> | monochrom: it's a small aha moment for me |
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| 22:23:43 | <infinisil> | Could also use https://hackage.haskell.org/package/dlist-1.0/docs/Data-DList.html |
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| 22:25:41 | <infinisil> | Oh they're gone |
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| 23:12:50 | <newhoggy> | @bgamari: Any chance you could bump the upper bounds for monoidal-containers? https://github.com/bgamari/monoidal-containers/issues/78 |
| 23:12:51 | <lambdabot> | Unknown command, try @list |
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| 23:13:08 | <newhoggy> | bgamari: Any chance you could bump the upper bounds for monoidal-containers? https://github.com/bgamari/monoidal-containers/issues/78 |
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| 23:23:44 | <ortz> | is there an irc channel for Rust? |
| 23:24:00 | <ortz> | I tried #rust, but it's invite-only |
| 23:24:29 | <hpc> | i don't think anyone here can help with that |
| 23:24:48 | <ortz> | i figured there'd be a bit of overlap |
| 23:25:26 | <yushyin> | also rust community mostly uses discord and zulip |
| 23:25:52 | <ortz> | discord is annoying, it wants an email just for me to pop in and ask a question |
| 23:25:57 | <hpc> | or mozilla's irc network, it seems |
| 23:25:59 | <hpc> | https://prev.rust-lang.org/en-US/community.html |
| 23:26:15 | <yushyin> | mozilla stopped using irc |
| 23:26:20 | <hpc> | oh |
| 23:26:27 | <hpc> | freenode's #rust might just be squatting the name |
| 23:26:46 | <yushyin> | they are now using matrix.org, afaik |
| 23:27:15 | <yushyin> | there is an unoffical rust channel on freenode ##rust |
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| 23:29:18 | <yushyin> | hpc: prev.rust-lang.org seems to be an old unmaintained website :/ |
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