Logs on 2021-05-02 (freenode/#haskell)
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| 00:45:14 | hackage | ghc-lib-parser-ex 0.20210501 - Algorithms on GHC parse trees https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ghc-lib-parser-ex-0.20210501 (shayne_fletcher) |
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| 01:02:06 | <dinciorip> | Is there an equivalent of `&` for `<$>`? So that I can write things like `[1, 2, 3] <&> (+2) = [3, 4, 5]` |
| 01:02:34 | <dinciorip> | (`<&>` is made up here) |
| 01:03:45 | <justsomeguy> | Data.Functor has (<&>), which is defined as (<&>) = flip fmap |
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| 01:09:18 | <justsomeguy> | I was reading the code for Control.Monad.Reader, and there is an instance in there like class Monad m => MonadReader r m | m -> r where { ... }. What does the "|" mean here? |
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| 01:10:16 | <geekosaur> | it's a functional dependency: if m is known then r is also known |
| 01:10:48 | <geekosaur> | ghc doesn't even have to know what m is, it still knows that whatever m is, there's only one possible r to go with it |
| 01:12:41 | <geekosaur> | this helps with type resolution which is otherwise difficult-to-imppossible with a multi-parameter typeclass |
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| 01:14:17 | <justsomeguy> | Seems like I have to get into the habit of checking the GHC User Guide in addition to the languae report when I encounter new syntax. (Y'know, in addition to doing a web search.) |
| 01:14:52 | <geekosaur> | yep |
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| 01:25:46 | <dinciorip> | justsomeguy: Doh didn't see it somehow... thanks |
| 01:26:53 | <justsomeguy> | As a new Haskell user, it happens to me a lot, too. I got used to having everything in scope by default from language like Python. Hoogle helps a lot. |
| 01:27:05 | <justsomeguy> | s/language/languages/ |
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| 02:26:03 | <davve_> | hi, what do you guys suggest for formatting code? |
| 02:26:56 | <davve_> | if any |
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| 02:31:23 | <DigitalKiwi> | i like hindent |
| 02:32:20 | <DigitalKiwi> | there's also brittany and ormolu or stylish-haskell...etc. |
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| 02:33:11 | <davve_> | cool, I just ran my code through ormolu live, turned out quite nice if I may say so :) will have a look at the ones you mentioned |
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| 04:47:45 | <olligobber> | so I'm trying to write something using template haskell types, and I noticed that despite the existence of InfixT, when I do [t| Bool >>> Char |] it uses ConT >>> and AppT |
| 04:49:14 | <olligobber> | which is annoying, cos now I need to somehow tell the difference between type operators and type names purely based on their name, rather than whether they are ConT or InfixT |
| 04:49:36 | <olligobber> | does anyone know a good way to do that? or do I just have to check if the name is made of symbols? |
| 04:49:47 | ← | jaiya parts (~jaiya@unaffiliated/jaiya) () |
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| 04:54:18 | <olligobber> | oh I know, I'll look at how the pretty printer tells the difference |
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| 05:04:58 | <olligobber> | it literally just checks if the first character satisfies isAlpha or `elem` "_[]()" |
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| 05:05:22 | <olligobber> | great |
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| 06:11:57 | <sunyibo> | I'd like to build git-annex on debian. I'm getting this https://bpa.st/W4ZA . Can someone please help? |
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| 06:18:28 | <c_wraith> | sunyibo: did you run `cabal update` like it asked? |
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| 06:22:24 | <sunyibo> | I did |
| 06:23:39 | <sunyibo> | same result |
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| 06:27:31 | <c_wraith> | what version of git-annex do you have? |
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| 06:37:55 | <c_wraith> | I decided to try building it myself and... wtf, git-annex depends on yesod. No wonder this is taking a year to build. |
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| 06:40:03 | <sunyibo> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yesod this is getting better and better. Thanks for trying. I guess I have to https://www.haskell.org/cabal/#install-upgrade first |
| 06:41:12 | <c_wraith> | It looks like debian has git-annex packages. That might be the way to go, unless you need a newer version |
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| 06:45:19 | <sunyibo> | I do. Or I did. And now I just want to learn how to build a package. |
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| 06:47:10 | <c_wraith> | I don't understand why git-annex depends on yesod. That's not what I'd expect. But anyway.... |
| 06:48:08 | <c_wraith> | The first step to building a package is getting the necessary build tools. I'm running debian and got ghc and cabal via ghcup. It's a convenient way to manage those things. |
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| 06:54:20 | <sunyibo> | could you build it? |
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| 06:54:34 | <c_wraith> | unsure. Still working. |
| 06:54:53 | <sunyibo> | there is a web interface for git-annex. Hence maybe the need for yesod... |
| 06:55:42 | <c_wraith> | that would do it. I didn't look at the cabal file, maybe it's a separate binary and I could have avoided building it. |
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| 07:02:30 | <c_wraith> | I was able to build git-annex-8.20210428, but it took like half an hour |
| 07:03:16 | <c_wraith> | that was with ghc 8.10.4 and cabal 3.4.0.0 |
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| 07:05:21 | <c_wraith> | looking at the cabal file now - oh, it has a flag for whether to build the webapp or not. Turning that off would have sped things up a lot. |
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| 07:13:41 | <sunyibo> | did you get ghc and cabal from apt? |
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| 07:29:11 | <c_wraith> | sunyibo: no, I got them from ghcup |
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| 07:39:58 | <sunyibo> | I did all that, install from ghcup and I'm still getting the same error https://bpa.st/AMIQ |
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| 07:54:13 | <maerwald> | sunyibo: which GHC is first in PATH? |
| 07:54:58 | <maerwald> | also, this is definitely an outadeted cabal index |
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| 08:30:52 | <DigitalKiwi> | https://dpaste.com/HQKHLHQGH |
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| 08:31:57 | <DigitalKiwi> | that's an older version isn't it |
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| 08:37:57 | <DigitalKiwi> | abbrv. nix-shell -p haskellPackages.git-annex |
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| 09:54:23 | <nut> | if i name my file file.hsc, will it be automatically processed by the hsc2hs program? |
| 09:54:49 | <nut> | in the cabal project |
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| 10:02:02 | <biglama> | Hi guys, I have a list of strings representing categories and subcategories, like this "flower", "rose", "dandelion", "food", "banana", "apple" ... I would like to convert it to a nested structure, for example : [("flower", ["rose", "dandelion"]), ("food", ["banana", "apple"])]... |
| 10:02:19 | <biglama> | Is Data.Map most suited for that ? |
| 10:03:09 | <biglama> | (there are subsubsub categories too) |
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| 10:05:33 | <locallycompact> | that structure is a Map String [String] without subsubsubcategories |
| 10:06:02 | <locallycompact> | you can do this indefinitely to a fixed length e.g (Map String (Map String [String])), but all the entries would have to be the same depth |
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| 10:08:02 | <locallycompact> | if you want more freely structured trees then I tend to use Cofree [] which gives you arbitrary nesting depth |
| 10:09:32 | <locallycompact> | I think that's also called a rosetree |
| 10:10:18 | <biglama> | locallycompact: thanks ! I thought about using custom data types but, as I was typing the question, it was obvious a map was a better choice :D |
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| 10:11:52 | <biglama> | locallycompact: the documentation of cfree is not super clear for me :/ |
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| 10:14:18 | <locallycompact> | Yeah cofree is very highly parameterised |
| 10:14:28 | <locallycompact> | if you let f = [] in the definition then your example would be |
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| 10:15:35 | <locallycompact> | actually sorry it wouldn't be that exactly because it would be a list at the top level |
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| 10:16:12 | <biglama> | Maybe a custom nested structure would be best ? I think a tree should do the job |
| 10:16:14 | <locallycompact> | ["flower" :< ["dandelion" :< [], "rose" :< []], "food" :< ["banana" :< [], "apple" :< []]] :: [Cofree [] String] |
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| 10:17:35 | <locallycompact> | depends on the use case really |
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| 10:18:37 | <biglama> | How would you parse the tree ? I just want to pretty-print it as it comes as a list of string |
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| 10:19:21 | <locallycompact> | if it's coming in as an unstructured list that sound quite involved |
| 10:19:22 | <biglama> | And I have like 50 nodes in the tree (to do by hand) |
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| 10:19:59 | <biglama> | That's why I though of ditching the input and writing the (rose)tree by hand |
| 10:20:07 | <biglama> | thought* |
| 10:20:18 | <locallycompact> | you definitely structured input |
| 10:20:21 | <locallycompact> | *want |
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| 10:27:07 | <biglama> | Oh, it may be actually |
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| 10:27:32 | <biglama> | How would I build a cofree then ? |
| 10:29:46 | <locallycompact> | here's an example of a table of contents with a cofree https://gitlab.com/shakebook-site/shakebook-site.gitlab.io/-/blob/master/Shakefile.hs#L87 |
| 10:30:02 | <locallycompact> | you just want Cofree [] String |
| 10:30:40 | <locallycompact> | everything in a rosetree has to have children even if it's empty so all the branches eventually trail with :< [] |
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| 10:34:14 | <tomsmeding> | locallycompact: biglama: there is also https://hackage.haskell.org/package/containers-0.6.4.1/docs/Data-Tree.html which is just a plain old rose tree :p |
| 10:35:10 | <locallycompact> | there you g :) |
| 10:35:17 | <locallycompact> | *go :) |
| 10:35:43 | <DigitalKiwi> | hi locallycompact |
| 10:35:51 | <locallycompact> | hi |
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| 10:37:31 | <biglama> | locallycompact: seems to do the trick nicely and easier to use for me. Thanks ! |
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| 11:11:15 | hackage | ghc-tags-core 0.3.0.0 - a library to work with tags created from Haskell parsed tree https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ghc-tags-core-0.3.0.0 (coot) |
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| 11:12:15 | hackage | ghc-tags-plugin 0.3.0.0 - A compiler plugin which generates tags file from GHC parsed syntax tree. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ghc-tags-plugin-0.3.0.0 (coot) |
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| 12:16:32 | <Philonous> | Is there a good introduction to writing GHC plugins somewhere? |
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| 12:37:12 | <juri_> | wow. who thought case sensitive package names was a good idea. |
| 12:37:33 | <juri_> | looking at you, Unique, and unique. |
| 12:39:40 | <geekosaur> | someone has a good sense of irony |
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| 13:03:46 | <pjb> | juri_: some people are sensible to case, some are sloppy. |
| 13:05:22 | <davve_> | name your packages LiKeThIs and maybe it gets changed :) |
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| 13:20:24 | <dmj`> | Philonous: I wrote a ghc plugin to inline lens template haskell splices https://github.com/dmjio/lens-th-rewrite/blob/master/src/GHC/Plugin/LensThRewrite.hs code isn't too hard to follow |
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| 13:38:10 | <Franciman> | Hi |
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| 13:41:46 | <Philonous> | dmj`, Thanks, that helps! |
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| 14:06:28 | <DigitalKiwi> | https://mostlyabsurd.com/files/snake_ToTitle |
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| 14:09:53 | <[exa]> | DigitalKiwi: good they run it in nix, there ain't a chance that a version mismatch would produce rEVERSEcAMELcASE or something |
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| 14:14:40 | <DigitalKiwi> | https://mostlyabsurd.com/files/spongeBoBNamer |
| 14:14:40 | <DigitalKiwi> | kiwi@mvp-nixos ~ []$ ~/bin/spongeBoBNamer wellyoucanneverbetoocareful |
| 14:14:40 | <DigitalKiwi> | WeLlYoUcAnNeVeRbEtOoCaReFuL |
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| 14:16:58 | <DigitalKiwi> | [exa]: hehe well ...here's the thing about nixos-unstable channel. it's not stable |
| 14:17:10 | <[exa]> | :D |
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| 14:23:12 | <DigitalKiwi> | and on my systems it's almost more likely that it'll be using https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/tree/haskell-updates (have in an overlay) or https://github.com/Kiwi/nixpkgs/tree/some-pending-pr |
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| 14:24:38 | <DigitalKiwi> | i really should start pinning things a bit more often... |
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| 14:46:17 | <Zy64Jw> | how would you say "suit yourself" in a professional environment |
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| 15:04:54 | <DigitalKiwi> | "that is a nice tie you are wearing, did you pick that suit yourself?" |
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| 16:36:42 | <asicia> | Can someone explain this part: https://youtu.be/uykHCg2VUjc?t=1575 where he says that we can assume the induction hypothesis? He later uses that assumption to switch statements in the equality, but how is that proving anything? |
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| 16:45:23 | <monochrom> | Have you done induction proofs in other contexts? No difference here. |
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| 16:47:22 | <monochrom> | And at that specific point, he is just starting the inductive case by carefully writing down what to prove in the inductive case. |
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| 16:48:08 | <monochrom> | But the assumption is the equation before the ⇒. |
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| 16:48:56 | <asicia> | i have not done any induction proofs before, so i am a bit confused as to why can assume that hypothesis |
| 16:49:52 | <asicia> | i kind of thought the base case should be used in the steps proving the inductive case |
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| 16:50:46 | <pavonia> | Is there a Haskell type that discriminates between a positive and negative NaN? |
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| 16:53:43 | <monochrom> | I think the first 10 minutes is a rough sketch why induction is valid. |
| 16:53:54 | <monochrom> | I mean I would give the same rough sketch too. |
| 16:54:31 | <monochrom> | There is a way to rigorously prove that induction is valid, but it's pure math rather than programming. |
| 16:56:10 | <asicia> | so by "we can assume" he means that it should be proven, but we will just skip that part for the sake of explaning the rough sketch? |
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| 16:56:45 | <monochrom> | Huh, which "we can assume"? |
| 16:57:14 | <asicia> | the very first sentence |
| 16:57:24 | <asicia> | in the link i provided |
| 16:57:31 | <monochrom> | Then no. |
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| 16:57:46 | <asicia> | so what is that assumption based on? |
| 16:58:20 | <monochrom> | We can assume P(n). We can assume "add n Zero = n". |
| 16:58:52 | <monochrom> | When proving "X ⇒ Y", we assume X and under it prove Y. |
| 17:00:03 | <asicia> | but there is no statement with Zero in the inductive case proof |
| 17:00:27 | <monochrom> | That's fine. |
| 17:00:51 | <monochrom> | Not the job of the inductive case to worry about P(Zero). |
| 17:01:37 | <monochrom> | How about this: |
| 17:02:59 | <monochrom> | Are you mixing up eg "for every day D, (if I receive a gold coin on day D, then I will receive a gold coin on day D+1)" with "if (for every day D, I receive a gold coin on day D) then (for every day D, I will receive a gold coin on day D+1)"? |
| 17:03:13 | <monochrom> | The inductive case is the former, not the latter. |
| 17:03:35 | <monochrom> | The latter doesn't prove anything. |
| 17:04:30 | <monochrom> | A child saved an injured bird. The bird turned out to be a fairy, and offered to grant two wishes to the child. |
| 17:04:46 | <monochrom> | The child's 1st wish was "I wish to receive a gold coin today". |
| 17:05:17 | <monochrom> | 2nd wish was "I wish that: for every day, if I receive a gold coin on that day, then I will receive a gold coin on the next day" |
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| 17:05:45 | hackage | css-selectors 0.4.0.0 - Parsing, rendering and manipulating css selectors in Haskell. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/css-selectors-0.4.0.0 (wvanonsem90) |
| 17:05:49 | <monochrom> | Why didn't the child simply use one wish to say "I wish to receive a gold coin everyday, starting from today"? |
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| 17:06:04 | <monochrom> | Because this is a fairy tale for induction. >:) |
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| 17:09:18 | <asicia> | i guess i will need to learn some more about induction, as it still confuses me why the proof does not step by step convert the left side of equation to the right side one |
| 17:09:48 | <asicia> | but just takes a shortcut when the statements looks like the one in the hypothesis and switches the left side with the right side |
| 17:10:25 | <monochrom> | That may be an entirely different issue. |
| 17:12:33 | <hrnz> | pavonia: Double. |
| 17:13:33 | <monochrom> | Huh, from 26:34 to 30:00 he was doing from left side to right side. |
| 17:14:39 | <monochrom> | Except at the darkest minute, as usual, it is not clear how to do the hardest step unless you take hints from working backwards. |
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| 17:16:43 | <asicia> | at 27:45~ he rebrackets the statement, but we are trying to prove that part, how can he use this in the proof? |
| 17:17:12 | <DigitalKiwi> | that's the proof by induction part |
| 17:17:14 | <monochrom> | That's using the induction hypothesis "add x (add x y) = add (add x y) z" |
| 17:17:37 | <monochrom> | the "P(x)" |
| 17:18:05 | <pavonia> | hrnz: And how do you create those values? |
| 17:18:19 | <monochrom> | At this point, no one is trying to prove "add x (add x y) = add (add x y) z" |
| 17:18:35 | <hrnz> | 0*(8/0) :: Double and 0*(-8/0) :: Double :> |
| 17:18:39 | <monochrom> | Everyone is only trying to prove "add (Succ x) (add x y) = add (add (Succ x) y) z" |
| 17:18:53 | <monochrom> | Remember the gold coins? |
| 17:19:28 | <asicia> | but why is it legal to use that assumption in that step of the proof to rebracket the statement |
| 17:19:31 | <monochrom> | No one is either assuming nor proving "every day I get a coin". |
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| 17:19:59 | <pavonia> | > (0*(8/0) :: Double, 0*(-8/0) :: Double) |
| 17:20:01 | <lambdabot> | (NaN,NaN) |
| 17:20:03 | <monochrom> | Everyone is just assuming "if on a particular day D, I get a coin", then what will happen on day D+1. |
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| 17:20:35 | <pavonia> | > (0*(8/0) :: Double) == (0*(-8/0) :: Double) |
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| 17:20:37 | <lambdabot> | False |
| 17:20:47 | <pavonia> | Awesome |
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| 17:21:15 | <monochrom> | Because the inductive case proves "for all x, (if P(x), then P(Succ x)" |
| 17:22:13 | <monochrom> | So you begin with "Let an arbitrary x be given, it's an unknown to me, but it's called 'x'" |
| 17:22:34 | <monochrom> | So now you need to prove "if P(x) then P(Succ x)" under that x. |
| 17:22:49 | <monochrom> | So now you assume P(x) and prove P(Succ x). |
| 17:23:07 | <monochrom> | There is basically no other way to prove statements of the form "if foo then bar". |
| 17:23:24 | <monochrom> | It's almost the definition of "⇒". |
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| 17:28:15 | <asicia> | thanks for your explanations monochrom, i will try to search for some resources to get a better understanding on how these proofs are done |
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| 17:41:44 | hackage | css-selectors 0.4.0.1 - Parsing, rendering and manipulating css selectors in Haskell. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/css-selectors-0.4.0.1 (wvanonsem90) |
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| 17:49:23 | <cub3s_> | If I upload package to Hackage, how long roughly until I can see it on "haskell-updates" branch of nixpkgs? |
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| 18:24:14 | hackage | streamly-lmdb 0.2.1 - Stream data to or from LMDB databases using the streamly library. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/streamly-lmdb-0.2.1 (shlok) |
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| 19:51:16 | <nut> | When do people use Data.Coerce ? |
| 19:51:32 | <nut> | i saw a c lib wrapper using it, but can't understand why |
| 19:52:36 | <nut> | solveOde fun x0 f0 xend = |
| 19:52:38 | <nut> | coerce $ solveOdeC (coerce fun) (coerce x0) (coerce f0) (coerce xend) |
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| 20:02:57 | <chisui> | nut: It's a type safe way to convert between data types that have the same runtime representation. Instances of `Coercible` are generated by the compiler and usages of `coerce` introduce no actual runtime code executions (for the most part). See the documentation for more info. |
| 20:02:57 | <chisui> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.15.0.0/docs/Data-Coerce.html#t:Coercible |
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| 20:08:15 | <hololeap> | the bigger question is when do you use Data.Typeable.cast vs Data.Coerce.coerce ? |
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| 20:13:08 | <cdsmith> | I don't understand why 'a' isn't in scope here. Anyone want to convince me this makes sense? https://gist.github.com/cdsmith/d8d7876f4a978edca62d05dd454c7b9d |
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| 20:15:09 | <geekosaur> | I'm not sure what you typed makes sense. "forall."? |
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| 20:15:27 | <cdsmith> | geekosaur: That's just to rpevent implicity quanitification |
| 20:15:38 | <cdsmith> | Okay, I cannot type today, it seems |
| 20:15:47 | <cdsmith> | prevent implicit quantification |
| 20:16:28 | <cdsmith> | Without that, it compiles, but only because there's an implicit `forall a.` on the constructor. |
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| 20:18:26 | <dmj`> | llvm-hs is a great package |
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| 20:46:46 | <cdsmith> | Oh, never mind about my forall question. I realized that even though I need to include 'a' in the forall of the constructor, because it also occurs in the result, it unifies the way I wanted anyway. |
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| 21:00:45 | hackage | dimensional 1.4 - Statically checked physical dimensions https://hackage.haskell.org/package/dimensional-1.4 (BjornBuckwalter) |
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| 21:09:41 | <safinaskar> | hi |
| 21:10:27 | <safinaskar> | when i type multiple words at http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/search , it seems they are connected using OR. how to connect them using AND? |
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| 21:12:20 | <lyxia> | safinaskar: have you considered using Google instead |
| 21:15:34 | <safinaskar> | well, i found what i want |
| 21:15:39 | ← | safinaskar parts (~user@109-252-90-136.nat.spd-mgts.ru) () |
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| 21:27:58 | <jijimofo> | had an idea for cabal. what if instead of building for a single set of versions, cabal built for a whole bunch of version sets at once? |
| 21:28:19 | <Uniaika> | jijimofo: that's called CI matrices :-P |
| 21:28:35 | <jijimofo> | idea being to automate building and testing with a wide variety of library versions |
| 21:28:53 | <jijimofo> | Uniaika: oh. heh, of course someone has already had the idea :) |
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| 21:29:26 | <Uniaika> | jijimofo: GitHub Actions allow you to specify matrices https://kodimensional.dev/github-actions |
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| 21:37:45 | <jijimofo> | i think building and testing against a single set of versions is "wrong". one should specify supported version ranges and cabal should automate building and testing against mulitple version sets |
| 21:39:00 | <jijimofo> | except in "development mode" where speed in compiling is important. but when you publish the changes the extra building is done |
| 21:39:40 | <jijimofo> | does cabal have a way to determine maximal version bounds? |
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| 21:41:05 | <jijimofo> | i think i have my next project. how to automatically determine version ranges for packages |
| 21:41:35 | <jijimofo> | the goal being to use cabal and not have to think about version bounds period |
| 21:42:21 | <jijimofo> | so each package would come with a way of testing it and the auto-bounds will use success and failure of build/test to figure out bounds |
| 21:43:17 | <jijimofo> | s/auto-bounds/bounds-bot |
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| 21:43:56 | <jijimofo> | gah no one ever talks to me |
| 21:44:08 | <jijimofo> | itsok ; |
| 21:44:15 | <jijimofo> | im just bored |
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| 22:09:22 | <jijimofo> | i'm thinking that abb will determine which version you need by looking at your source. presence/absence of fun/type, and whether they have the right type |
| 22:11:57 | <sm[m]> | jijimofo: must be the time. Search for "cabal" tools on hackage, there some things like that |
| 22:12:28 | <sm[m]> | also check out stackage if you haven't |
| 22:12:38 | <jijimofo> | sm[m]: thanks for the suggestion. haven't seen stackage yet |
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| 22:23:04 | <kaesler> | (Newbie query) I have a stack-based project loaded into VSCode with the Haskell extension. I get the types displayed on hover in a tooltip, but only for non-test code. Is there a way to make this work also in unit test code? |
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| 22:29:51 | <sm[m]> | kaesler: good question, you might get more help (eventually) in #haskell-language-server |
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| 22:54:59 | <jackdk> | kaesler: I have no experience with HLS but with similar tools you often need to configure it to load the test-suite target when reading files from a test directory. how to do that with HLS? I have no idea - maybe the manual can help? |
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| 23:12:07 | <utens> | hirc :D |
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| 23:35:03 | <sm[m]> | it might need a hie.yaml that mentions the test dir |
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All times are in UTC on 2021-05-02.