Logs on 2021-05-05 (freenode/#haskell)
| 00:00:24 | <moet> | ooh, i like "haskellian" way better than "haskeller" |
| 00:00:44 | <moet> | tempate: normally you define tests as their own stanza in the cabalfile, and then they'd have their own entrypoint (main file) |
| 00:03:06 | <moet> | tempate: https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/latest/cabal-package.html#test-suites |
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| 00:03:42 | <tempate> | moet: oh, thanks a lot. I'll give that a look |
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| 00:04:16 | <moet> | tempate: it seems like Board, Move, and Search are meant to be exposed as library modules, since your main only runs tests.. to do that you'd use a library stanza in the cabalfile (probably also documented on the same page linked above) |
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| 00:05:04 | <moet> | tempate: a quick glance through Board, Move, and Search ... they look pretty haskellian to me! :) |
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| 00:06:10 | <tempate> | got it! |
| 00:06:35 | <tempate> | I'm going to call it a day now, but tomorrow I'll give it another try and report back |
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| 00:50:44 | <monochrom> | https://github.com/treblacy/ccal :) |
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| 07:22:41 | <wrunt> | I'm finding these utilities useful: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/7Yee1X6v |
| 07:23:14 | <wrunt> | Do they already exist somewhere? Am I somehow abusing runWithReplace? It seems odd... |
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| 08:27:45 | <dminuoso> | wrunt: What is runWithReplace or Adjustable? The latter does not seem to be the one from `keys` |
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| 08:35:10 | <wrunt> | dminuoso: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/reflex-0.8.1.0/docs/Reflex-Adjustable-Class.html |
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| 08:36:12 | <Cale> | wrunt: Those are definitely strange... |
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| 08:37:07 | <Cale> | You could at least use (pure never) in sequenceEvent |
| 08:38:09 | <wrunt> | Oh... I was using (pure ()), but decided it didn't really matter what was there as it didn't seem to be used. |
| 08:38:29 | <Cale> | oh, right, forgot the details of runWithReplace's type |
| 08:38:48 | <Cale> | since you're taking snd in the end anyway, that bit will never be used |
| 08:40:22 | <Cale> | sequenceEvent is a lot like dyn, though without the holdDyn |
| 08:41:35 | <wrunt> | I couldn't use dyn as I have code on the backend that isn't using reflex-dom. |
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| 08:41:59 | <Cale> | Oh, you're using reflex in backend code? |
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| 08:43:00 | <Cale> | I guess there's the terribly-named stuff in Reflex.Network (we really ought to put that module through a deprecation cycle to change the names, since the functions there have nothing to do with networks) |
| 08:43:07 | <wrunt> | Yeah, I have a websocket from frontend to backend using RequesterT, and I wanted to use it in reverse as well, with the backend making requests to the frontend, so I used RequesterT on the backend as well (with GADT APIs). |
| 08:43:20 | <Cale> | networkHold = widgetHold, networkView = dyn |
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| 08:44:08 | <wrunt> | I came to sequenceEvent via the implementation of dyn, from memory, because it was just `dyn = networkView` |
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| 08:44:27 | <Cale> | Interesting -- you might run into the limitation that Spider doesn't really work concurrently at some point, but if you can keep the reflex-y code on one thread, it should be okay. |
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| 08:45:39 | <wrunt> | Er, well I have one thread (or maybe two?) per client... :/ |
| 08:47:49 | <wrunt> | I am seeing this error periodically: 'Error : Unexpected Duplicate, syncCallbacks=True nBatch=217 nExpected=221', from jsaddle, which does feel like a concurrency issue. |
| 08:48:08 | <Cale> | Are you using Events/Dynamics and such from multiple threads? |
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| 08:49:56 | <wrunt> | I'm only using reflex in one thread, but another thread is triggering events in the network, and receiving output from reflex. |
| 08:50:11 | <Cale> | Yeah, that sounds like it could be fine |
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| 08:50:49 | <Cale> | It's usually okay to do stuff like forking a thread from inside a performEventAsync even |
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| 10:33:37 | <siers> | Hi! Is it the case that the 'Nat's in agda are fully representable in haskell, just not as useful? |
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| 10:36:56 | <dminuoso> | Yes. |
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| 10:37:11 | <dminuoso> | You can simply write `data Nat = Z | S Nat` and use that. |
| 10:37:26 | <dminuoso> | But you have to handroll all functions to work with that, and have terrible efficiency as well. |
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| 11:04:14 | <timCF> | Hello! Can anybody help me to find this function? `(a -> Either b c) -> [a] -> Either b [c]` It feels like it should be something very standard |
| 11:04:33 | <Uniaika> | timCF: does hoogle give you a result? |
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| 11:04:40 | <timCF> | Uniaika: no |
| 11:05:16 | <timCF> | Uniaika: it might be something more generic like `(a -> f b c) -> t a -> f b (t c)` but it gives no result as well |
| 11:05:33 | <Taneb> | :t traverse @[] @(Either a) |
| 11:05:35 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 11:05:35 | <lambdabot> | Pattern syntax in expression context: traverse@[] |
| 11:05:35 | <lambdabot> | Did you mean to enable TypeApplications? |
| 11:05:46 | <Uniaika> | % :t traverse @[] @(Either a) |
| 11:05:46 | <yahb> | Uniaika: ; <interactive>:1:23: error: Not in scope: type variable `a' |
| 11:05:50 | <Uniaika> | damnation |
| 11:05:53 | <Uniaika> | % :t traverse @[] @(Either Int) |
| 11:05:53 | <yahb> | Uniaika: (a -> Either Int b) -> [a] -> Either Int [b] |
| 11:05:59 | <Uniaika> | ah, we're getting somewhere |
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| 11:06:14 | <Taneb> | As is often the case, it's trverse |
| 11:06:22 | <Uniaika> | Taneb: praise be 🙇 |
| 11:06:50 | <Taneb> | Note that this'll take the left-most Left |
| 11:07:07 | <Taneb> | If you want to combine them, you could use traverse with Validation from one of the handful of libraries that provide that |
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| 11:08:56 | <Uniaika> | timCF: yep, if you want to validate data, validation-selective is certainly your best bet |
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| 11:10:43 | <timCF> | thanks! |
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| 12:05:31 | <siers> | dminuoso, is agda more efficient with those? |
| 12:05:59 | <dminuoso> | siers: Im not sure, but Idris is at least. |
| 12:06:16 | <siers> | dminuoso, how is that achieved? |
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| 12:06:41 | <siers> | if you have any diea |
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| 12:11:19 | <siers> | ok, I found a reddit post about it |
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| 12:36:16 | <cub3s_> | I added the package "lolcoolrofl" under "dependency:" of my .cabal file. Since this package doesn't exist on Hackage, so cabal complained: "unknown package: lolcoolrofl". |
| 12:36:32 | <cub3s_> | This package is on some GitHub repo. How can I make cabal aware of this package? |
| 12:37:12 | <cub3s_> | (and, ideally, make cabal put the build result of this package into ~./cabal/store as it does with all Hackage packages with Nix-style builds) |
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| 12:37:21 | <dminuoso> | cub3s_: You can vendor the package. |
| 12:37:52 | <dminuoso> | If you want its build artifacts to be cached/shared, Im not sure that's possible without nix then. |
| 12:38:21 | <dminuoso> | Also, you can upload the package to hackage. |
| 12:38:34 | <dminuoso> | But Im not sure about the policy regarding uploading someone elses package. |
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| 12:38:47 | <cub3s_> | i don't want to upload this particular package to haskell |
| 12:38:56 | <cub3s_> | s/haskell/hackage |
| 12:39:00 | <dminuoso> | Is this an internal package? |
| 12:39:28 | <cub3s_> | yeah, but it would be cool if i could just access it from a github url instead of first cloning it and then refer to it locally |
| 12:40:14 | <cub3s_> | hmm this might be what i need... https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.4/cabal-project.html#specifying-packages-from-remote-version-control-locations |
| 12:40:15 | <dminuoso> | You can |
| 12:40:27 | <dminuoso> | Yup, know that this will not be shared across other packages |
| 12:40:47 | <dminuoso> | (i.e. if two packages depend on it, both have to pull it from git and compile it separately) |
| 12:40:56 | <cub3s_> | oh... but why... |
| 12:41:06 | <dminuoso> | Feel free to engineer the solution into cabal yourself. |
| 12:41:18 | <dminuoso> | Or hire someone to do it? ;) |
| 12:41:53 | <dminuoso> | I guess most tend to either have public dependencies only, or have some internal hackage going. |
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| 12:44:47 | <cub3s_> | dminuoso, ok if that's the only way currently, i think i'll just create a script to download all interesting github repos, tar.gz them, and create out of them a local repo like this: https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.4/installing-packages.html?highlight=hackage.haskell.org#local-no-index-repositories |
| 12:45:14 | <cub3s_> | fingers crossed they will work just the same as hackage packages when it comes to caching in ~/.cabal/store |
| 12:45:22 | <dminuoso> | cub3s_: I dont think this will share build artifacts either. |
| 12:45:27 | <cub3s_> | fuuuuu |
| 12:45:30 | <dminuoso> | In fact, Im almost certain. |
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| 12:47:44 | <dminuoso> | At best cabal should be able to do this with git dependencies |
| 12:48:39 | <cub3s_> | dminuoso, it just feels a bit weird those other repos (specified in the global configuration file) would be treated differently from hackage packages... |
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| 13:32:23 | <seven_three> | what does the `|` symbol mean here: `class Monad m => MonadState s m | m -> s where` ? |
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| 13:32:53 | <dminuoso> | seven_three: That's a functional dependency. |
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| 13:33:26 | <dminuoso> | See https://ghc.gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/doc/users_guide/exts/functional_dependencies.html |
| 13:33:27 | <seven_three> | oh ok I ran into that before but didn't really dive into what it means |
| 13:33:34 | <seven_three> | yes thanks I will read that |
| 13:34:37 | <dminuoso> | You can think of them as an older version of multi-param typeclasses with associated type families, if that helps. |
| 13:41:25 | <dminuoso> | Err, not multi-param typeclasses. Just associated type families I suppose. |
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| 13:47:16 | <seven_three> | I am now reading about multi-param type classes. This example was introduced: `coerce :: Coerce a b => a -> b`. Why is this any different than saying `coerce :: (Coerce a, Coerce b) => a -> b` |
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| 13:49:15 | <dminuoso> | seven_three: A multi param typeclass lets you write instances that relate two types, somehow. |
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| 13:49:29 | <dminuoso> | Coerce is a bad example however, since that's not even a real typeclass. |
| 13:49:48 | <dminuoso> | (You just see this as a constraint, but you cant write instances for it) |
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| 13:50:36 | <seven_three> | ill just keep reading |
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| 13:55:42 | <dminuoso> | seven_three: MonadState is probably a very good and motivating example, albeit this also requires fundeps. |
| 13:56:11 | <dminuoso> | The core idea, maybe to prime you for the manual, is to ensure that a given monad has exactly one particular state. |
| 13:56:26 | <dminuoso> | (And that this state type can therefore be inferred from the monad type) |
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| 15:55:04 | <safinaskar> | does base have function for creating something-separated lists? i mean this: f "," [] == "", f "," ["a"] == "a", f "," ["a", "b"] == "a,b" |
| 15:55:10 | <safinaskar> | or something similar? |
| 15:55:49 | <ClaudiusMaximus> | > intercalate "," "ab" |
| 15:55:51 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 15:55:51 | <lambdabot> | • Couldn't match type ‘Char’ with ‘[Char]’ |
| 15:55:51 | <lambdabot> | Expected type: [[Char]] |
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| 15:56:26 | ← | qwert parts (5167bcc0@cpc122078-bmly10-2-0-cust191.2-3.cable.virginm.net) () |
| 15:56:29 | <ClaudiusMaximus> | oh, should be ',', but it's in Data.List in base |
| 15:56:51 | <safinaskar> | ClaudiusMaximus: thanks! |
| 15:57:13 | <ClaudiusMaximus> | @src intercalate |
| 15:57:13 | <lambdabot> | intercalate xs xss = concat (intersperse xs xss) |
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| 16:04:57 | <monochrom> | > intercalate "," ["a", "b"] |
| 16:04:59 | <lambdabot> | "a,b" |
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| 16:08:00 | <geekosaur> | and the other one is intersperse |
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| 16:30:42 | <xerox_> | @src intersperse |
| 16:30:42 | <lambdabot> | intersperse _ [] = [] |
| 16:30:42 | <lambdabot> | intersperse _ [x] = [x] |
| 16:30:42 | <lambdabot> | intersperse sep (x:xs) = x : sep : intersperse sep xs |
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| 17:23:13 | <safinaskar> | is this possible to mix one-line and multi-line code in single doctest block? i'm trying to this. here is my attempt: https://paste.debian.net/1196439/ . i get error |
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| 17:27:18 | ← | jakalx parts (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ("Error from remote client") |
| 17:27:37 | <monochrom> | Possibly :{ :} is not supported. doctest ≠ ghci |
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| 17:35:42 | nrdmn981 | is now known as nrdmn98 |
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| 17:46:33 | <safinaskar> | monochrom: docs say this is supported: https://github.com/sol/doctest#readme |
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| 18:29:26 | <electricityZZZZ> | stack ghc --version gives me Invalid option `--version' ... what? |
| 18:29:48 | <monochrom> | The syntax may be: stack ghc -- --version |
| 18:30:34 | <monochrom> | Because general "stack foo --xxx" the --xxx is for stack. |
| 18:30:45 | <monochrom> | s/general/generally/ |
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| 18:35:52 | <electricityZZZZ> | why is stack lagging ghc 9.0.1, it's reporting 8.10.4. i have told stack to update etc and built a fresh project |
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| 18:36:11 | <electricityZZZZ> | that's a very counterintuitive syntax, for stack |
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| 18:36:32 | <geekosaur> | it's the standard way long options behave |
| 18:36:47 | <enikar> | there is not a resolver for ghc 9, yet? |
| 18:37:03 | <geekosaur> | andstack is lagging ghc because there hasn't been an lts release with 9.0.1, because most of the ecosystem is lagging 9.0.1 |
| 18:37:46 | <monochrom> | I don't need 9.0.1 new stuff so I'm staying with 8.10.4 too. |
| 18:37:53 | <electricityZZZZ> | i'm trying to define some simple types and work with them . i'm assuming that i should use recorddotsyntax for this ? |
| 18:38:00 | <geekosaur> | and thre main new feature of 9.0.1 (linear types) has very few users as yet |
| 18:38:25 | <monochrom> | simple types don't need RecordDotSyntax. At least my understand of "simple". |
| 18:39:02 | <electricityZZZZ> | is it idiomatic to not name fields ... ? |
| 18:39:04 | <monochrom> | I'm actually looking forward to 9.2 and potentially skipping 9.0.* entirely. |
| 18:39:30 | <monochrom> | It is unidiomatic to use RecordDotSyntax. Please don't conflate issues. |
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| 18:39:45 | <monochrom> | Then again you get to say "that's just because legacy" |
| 18:39:48 | <electricityZZZZ> | do i define a getter function? |
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| 18:40:07 | <monochrom> | The field name already doubles as getter function name. |
| 18:40:52 | <monochrom> | I don't get it. Have you properly learned Haskell2010 record syntax? Or is your goal to just expect Javascript syntax to carry over? |
| 18:41:13 | <davean> | electricityZZZZ: I would suggest you almsot definately don't want RecordDotSyntax. It doesn't give you features you didn't already have and it squats syntax space conflating things with function composition |
| 18:41:44 | <electricityZZZZ> | so does the haskell community not have an agreed on method of defining types and accessing their fields? |
| 18:42:05 | <davean> | Incorrect |
| 18:42:13 | <monochrom> | OK you haven't properly learned Haskell2010 record syntax. |
| 18:42:16 | <davean> | How did you even get to RecordDotSyntax? |
| 18:42:23 | <davean> | Yah, you haven't looked at anything |
| 18:42:28 | <davean> | this is defiantely covered in the basics |
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| 18:44:16 | <dmj`> | electricityZZZZ: if you just want access then use compose on the fields, if you want updates .... well now that will cost you |
| 18:44:22 | <davean> | https://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/haskell2010/haskellch4.html#x10-680004.2 <-- "Labelled Fields" |
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| 18:44:45 | <electricityZZZZ> | right, i guess, ... do i idiomatically label or is it weird to label,...? |
| 18:45:18 | <davean> | Labeling is common for larger datatypes, and when the lable has meaning |
| 18:45:25 | <monochrom> | It is idiomatic to make your judgment on a case-by-case basis. |
| 18:46:19 | <monochrom> | My understand of "simple" is that in simple cases the field names end up being totally unused. |
| 18:46:55 | <monochrom> | This is what's wrong when a complainer hyperboles with saying "just a simple" all the time. |
| 18:47:53 | <monochrom> | "This is just a simple type!" (it takes 100 lines of code to define) "I'm just asking a simple yes/no question!" (it is an NP-complete question.) |
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| 18:50:38 | <davean> | monochrom: so its decidable |
| 18:51:02 | <davean> | monochrom: we exit simple when we get to semi-decidable |
| 18:51:09 | <davean> | Those are "sorta simple" |
| 18:51:16 | <monochrom> | :) |
| 18:52:17 | <enikar> | so if simple is indecidable… let us inspect difficult questions :) |
| 18:52:41 | <davean> | What is the last knowable busy beaver number? |
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| 22:03:11 | <dibblego> | just use lens |
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| 22:14:15 | <infinisil> | Or optics |
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| 22:57:07 | <heebo> | hello is anyone coding coins? |
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| 22:59:07 | <Axman6> | so many coins |
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| 23:05:21 | <heebo> | coding plutus |
| 23:05:52 | <monochrom> | Huh are you in the wrong channel? |
| 23:07:17 | <heebo> | nope |
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| 23:11:40 | <Axman6> | I guess plutus is implemented in Haskell? I don't know of anyone in here working with Cardano or IOHK's other stuff |
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| 23:14:07 | <Axman6> | (There's a walk at LambdaJam today by John Hughes about testing crypto contracts using quickcheck, which might be relevant. you might still be able to buy tickets to get access to the live stream |
| 23:14:18 | <Axman6> | talk* )* |
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| 23:23:30 | <Axman6> | heebo: did you have an actual question, preferably related to Haskell? |
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| 23:33:57 | <sm[m]> | welcome heebo. Not too much cardano chat or plutus experience here |
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| 23:37:34 | <sm[m]> | there's a #cardano.. no #plutus yet |
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| 23:41:52 | <VarikValefor[m]> | electricityZZZZ: Nice username. |
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All times are in UTC on 2021-05-05.