Logs on 2021-05-10 (freenode/#haskell)
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| 01:35:27 | hackage | stackcollapse-ghc 0.0.1.4 - Program to fold GHC prof files into flamegraph input https://hackage.haskell.org/package/stackcollapse-ghc-0.0.1.4 (rzeznik) |
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| 02:24:57 | hackage | pinned-warnings 0.1.0.2 - Preserve warnings in a GHCi session https://hackage.haskell.org/package/pinned-warnings-0.1.0.2 (aaronallen8455) |
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| 03:57:32 | <Guest_93> | Hello - sorry for the basic question, but there seems to be some conflicting opinions on how to best install ghc/cabal/stack. Is brew an ok method? Or should I use ghcup? |
| 03:58:10 | <Axman6> | ghcup is definitely the preferred method these days. |
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| 04:01:02 | <Guest_93> | For stack, should I use the shell script from get.haskellstack.org as well? |
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| 04:06:23 | <Axman6> | I would get started with cabal if you can. there's a lot of overlap between what ghcup/cabal offer and stack, and you end up with a lot of duplication on your system, unless you are careful to tell it to use the system (ghcup) installed compiler |
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| 06:04:57 | hackage | unliftio 0.2.16 - The MonadUnliftIO typeclass for unlifting monads to IO (batteries included) https://hackage.haskell.org/package/unliftio-0.2.16 (MichaelSnoyman) |
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| 06:10:12 | <jackdk> | @djinn f a -> f (t a) |
| 06:10:12 | <lambdabot> | -- f cannot be realized. |
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| 06:16:39 | <ski> | @type fmap pure |
| 06:16:41 | <lambdabot> | (Applicative f1, Functor f2) => f2 a -> f2 (f1 a) |
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| 06:26:43 | <jackdk> | yeah we found that one, as well as sequenceA . pure and distribute . pure |
| 06:26:54 | <jackdk> | which I think are all the same |
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| 06:47:35 | <kuribas> | what's the best way to look for a haskell job? |
| 06:48:33 | <kuribas> | I suppose the only chance is remote or relocation. |
| 06:48:48 | <kuribas> | Or I'd need to become freelance. |
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| 06:49:49 | <Uniaika> | kuribas: which continent are you in? |
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| 06:50:32 | <kuribas> | Uniaika: Europe (Belgium) |
| 06:50:44 | <Uniaika> | kuribas: Scrive is hiring |
| 06:51:37 | <kuribas> | right |
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| 06:52:31 | <sm[m]> | kuribas: many jobs seem to show up on /r/haskell |
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| 06:52:36 | <kuribas> | The tought of doing clojure for the rest of my life horrifies me... |
| 06:52:55 | <dibblego> | kuribas ♥ clojure |
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| 06:53:45 | <kuribas> | dibblego: you? |
| 06:53:57 | <dibblego> | noyoo |
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| 07:41:27 | hackage | Z-Data 0.8.2.0 - Array, vector and text https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Z-Data-0.8.2.0 (winterland) |
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| 07:56:36 | <pjb> | /clear |
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| 07:59:49 | <Taneb> | kuribas: I found my current job on LinkedIn, they sometimes appear in various places if you're patient |
| 08:00:03 | <kuribas> | Taneb: ah cool |
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| 08:22:27 | hackage | jukebox 0.5.3 - A first-order reasoning toolbox https://hackage.haskell.org/package/jukebox-0.5.3 (NickSmallbone) |
| 08:23:17 | <jonathanx> | How do I check if a string is a parseable date/time? e.g. "2021-05-10T06:44:35.968082819Z" |
| 08:23:32 | <Taneb> | You could attempt to parse it |
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| 08:26:26 | <jonathanx> | I have been looking at https://hackage.haskell.org/package/time-1.11.1.2/docs/Data-Time-Format-ISO8601.html but I can't figure out how to actually parse using a ReadP |
| 08:26:54 | <jonathanx> | This feels like rather basic stuff but I'm a bit stuck :s |
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| 08:29:01 | <Taneb> | Use iso8501ParseM |
| 08:29:12 | <Taneb> | *iso8601ParseM |
| 08:32:46 | <jonathanx> | giving a MonadFail. hoogle isn't helpful when I'm searching for "MonadFail m => m a -> Bool" |
| 08:34:28 | <enikar> | use Maybe for the Monad? |
| 08:34:57 | <jonathanx> | hm. ofc |
| 08:34:58 | <jonathanx> | :D |
| 08:35:00 | <jonathanx> | ty |
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| 09:02:01 | <sphi> | Hi |
| 09:02:01 | <sphi> | > i am new to servant and been going through the docs |
| 09:02:01 | <sphi> | > not sure i still get it tho |
| 09:02:01 | <sphi> | > so my endpoints / routes are, well, types ? |
| 09:02:03 | <sphi> | > and their handlers are functions in those types ? |
| 09:02:04 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:29: error: <hint>:1:29: error: parse error on input ‘,’ |
| 09:02:05 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 09:02:05 | <lambdabot> | • Variable not in scope: sure :: Bool |
| 09:02:05 | <lambdabot> | • Perhaps you meant ‘pure’ (imported from Control.Applicative)error: Var... |
| 09:02:05 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 09:02:06 | <lambdabot> | • Variable not in scope: am |
| 09:02:08 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:34: error: <hint>:1:34: error: parse error on input ‘in’ |
| 09:02:10 | <lambdabot> | • Perhaps you meant one of these: |
| 09:03:27 | <[exa]> | sphi: `>` triggers some bots here, you don't need to use it |
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| 09:04:37 | <sphi> | [exa]: i see. |
| 09:04:39 | <[exa]> | sphi: the whole API structure in servant is defined by types (so that it can be automatically processed in the compiler). The functions and handlers are the tiny pieces of actual working code that needs to fit into the typed API structure |
| 09:05:26 | <sphi> | [exa]: yea, that's what i could make of it, but wasn't really sure of. |
| 09:06:19 | <dminuoso> | sphi: Small but subtle corrections: A handler is not necessarily a function, it can just be a monadic value. |
| 09:06:20 | <sphi> | [exa]: is there a resource that explains it from a higher / this is what it does POV? or is it more of, follow the tutorials on the docs site till it clicks for you ? |
| 09:06:32 | <sphi> | i am new at this. |
| 09:06:49 | <tdammers> | if you're new to Haskell in general, then servant may be a bit too much to digest |
| 09:06:54 | <dminuoso> | servant is a bit tough on newcomers, I dont know of any good introduction. Just going through the official readthedocs seemed like the best. |
| 09:07:13 | <dminuoso> | It uses some very advanced type level tricks |
| 09:07:16 | <sphi> | tdammers: i checked out scotty. |
| 09:07:20 | <sphi> | meh. |
| 09:07:33 | <sphi> | i can see it being limiting fairly quickly |
| 09:07:43 | <tdammers> | scotty is surprisingly powerful |
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| 09:07:46 | <sphi> | then i though, might as bite the bullet |
| 09:07:57 | <sphi> | and get on the servant wagon from the start |
| 09:08:15 | <sphi> | tdammers: yea? |
| 09:08:19 | <[exa]> | scotty tutorials look surprisingly shaky when compared to what it can do |
| 09:08:42 | <tdammers> | servant isn't a silver bullet. it introduces considerable complexity, and it is actually more limited in what it can do than scotty, the latter being just a thin layer on top of raw WAI |
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| 09:08:46 | <dminuoso> | sphi: So my two cents on servant is: I wouldnt use servant without generics anymore, and with generics you have some additional hoops - without understanding some of the type machinery it's very thick and intransparent. |
| 09:08:46 | <sphi> | what do you guys use for your web programming stuff ? |
| 09:09:04 | <[exa]> | now? scotty |
| 09:09:14 | <dminuoso> | I use servant a lot, but Im a seasoned haskeller |
| 09:09:40 | <dminuoso> | To a beginner, Id undoudtedly recommend scotty first probablyt |
| 09:09:44 | <[exa]> | I have 1 servant stuff running though, I wanted the autogenerated API docs and I'm pretty sure it's never going to change and I don't want to touch it again |
| 09:09:52 | <tdammers> | sometimes, the added complexity of servant is worth it, sometimes it's not |
| 09:10:29 | <dminuoso> | sphi: The main usefulness of servant is when you write both server and client in Haskell, and perhaps even generate something like Swagger and/or documentation from it, such that you have type checked guarantee of coherence |
| 09:10:31 | <[exa]> | (btw that's why there are 2 packages, not a single big unifying one :] ) |
| 09:10:41 | <dminuoso> | (such that the server/client/docs/openapi all match up) |
| 09:10:51 | <sphi> | so there isn't a "servant is clearly more powerful, but the learning curve cost is sometimes too much, but if you can, you should pick it up thing" ? |
| 09:10:59 | <tdammers> | no |
| 09:11:13 | <sphi> | *pardon the noobness of the quesstions* |
| 09:11:20 | <dminuoso> | sphi: Its rather it has certain advantages for some usage patterns, but it's its very costly to use for no good reason. |
| 09:11:21 | <tdammers> | it's a reasonable question |
| 09:11:33 | <dminuoso> | And its a harsh introduction for newcomers |
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| 09:11:53 | <tdammers> | there's also a bit of over-hypedness to servant - even the servant maintainers themselves do not recommend using servant for everything |
| 09:13:30 | <[exa]> | sphi: btw what did you use so far? |
| 09:14:18 | <sphi> | [exa]: scotty |
| 09:14:53 | <sphi> | it seems its more monad transformer style code |
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| 09:15:37 | <dminuoso> | Well, you can have monad transformers with servant too.. its just a bit more noise |
| 09:17:22 | <sphi> | i am just trying to get a web thing under my belt for when i have to make APis |
| 09:17:31 | <sphi> | and wondering where do i put my time |
| 09:18:07 | <sphi> | i am fine with learning curves (i rather enjoy them, just not just for the sake of it) |
| 09:18:52 | <sphi> | tl;dr trying to go for the most useful thing to learn (i know, nothing's perfect for everything) |
| 09:20:05 | <sphi> | but since it's haskell, something that gives me the advantange of writing my api's IN haskell (type safety, runtime garuntees, correctness etc) seems a nice thought |
| 09:22:36 | <[exa]> | ah if you already have done some scotty then just try servant, you'll see |
| 09:23:16 | <[exa]> | it originally sounded a bit like you're migrating from Flask or something (sorry :] ) |
| 09:26:50 | <sphi> | [exa]: flask was my go-to before i came to haskell-land. |
| 09:27:26 | <sphi> | now the haskell code writing experience suits me so much, id rather do all the new stuff in it. |
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| 09:27:54 | <sphi> | and was just looking for the thing to pick up that i could just reach out to when i need to do web stuff. |
| 09:28:07 | <sphi> | and not think about it ? |
| 09:28:14 | <sphi> | if that makes sense ? |
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| 09:29:11 | <sphi> | scotty and servant and maybe yesod seem like the main things in the space. |
| 09:29:27 | <sphi> | was looking to draw on you fine people's wisdom |
| 09:29:32 | <sphi> | : ) |
| 09:30:32 | <sphi> | . |
| 09:31:04 | <[exa]> | yesod is a nice TemplateHaskell exercise I heard |
| 09:32:13 | <dminuoso> | sphi: Do you want to write a client or server? |
| 09:32:18 | <dminuoso> | (or both?) |
| 09:32:49 | <sphi> | ideally both. |
| 09:33:00 | <dminuoso> | By both do you mean a client matching the same server? |
| 09:33:00 | <sphi> | realistically, more servers, less clients |
| 09:33:04 | <dminuoso> | Or separate clients? |
| 09:33:40 | <sphi> | dminuoso: i am tired of writing frontend in _insert javascript fw flavour of the year_ here |
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| 09:34:06 | <sphi> | i'd rather use a dsl like lucid and server side render now, if i can help it. |
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| 09:34:39 | <Rembane> | sphi: Have you checked out PureScript? ...if you sometimes need something fun for the frontend? |
| 09:34:41 | <sphi> | lucid + clay seem just the thing. not used them tho, look alright on paper tho |
| 09:35:14 | <sphi> | Rembane: i know about it, haven't really given it a serious look |
| 09:35:17 | <dminuoso> | Personally I think the current state of web technology is a bad fit for Haskell. |
| 09:35:18 | <sphi> | should i ? |
| 09:35:36 | <sphi> | dminuoso: current state of web technology is a mistake |
| 09:35:41 | <dminuoso> | Sure |
| 09:35:42 | <Rembane> | sphi: It depends on how much time you have. It is a very deep rabbit hole. |
| 09:35:50 | <Rembane> | dminuoso: Why? |
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| 09:45:29 | <safinaskar> | how to see table of all versions of given hackage package? |
| 09:45:37 | <safinaskar> | with dates of publication |
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| 09:45:49 | <safinaskar> | and preferably with equations for dependencies |
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| 09:57:50 | <safinaskar> | i am trying to install some old unmaintained package from hackage. some of its dependencies listed without upper bound. I want something like this: "cabal install --today-is=2015-01-01 package-name" |
| 09:58:14 | <safinaskar> | i. e. cabal should install packages uploaded before that day only |
| 09:58:28 | <safinaskar> | (this should apply to all transitive dependencies) |
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| 09:58:32 | <safinaskar> | is this possible? |
| 09:58:46 | <sclv> | that exists. i forget the flag offhand, but cabal update will tell you |
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| 09:59:29 | <dminuoso> | Rembane: Because modern web technology usually requires a mixture of various technologies with very poor semantics. There quickly comes a point when some of the DOM semantics become needed or apparent, or you need some quirky animations |
| 10:00:27 | <dminuoso> | For a while I was writing React web pages, and it quickly gets annoying when you need to interact with quirky HTML/CSS semantics |
| 10:00:54 | <dminuoso> | There's so many times you have to break out of your fancy abstraction and write adhoc JavaScript, manipulate the DOM manually, etc |
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| 10:01:03 | <safinaskar> | sclv: thanks! |
| 10:01:07 | <dminuoso> | Certain animations come to mind |
| 10:02:18 | <safinaskar> | how to see list of versions for some package with publication dates? |
| 10:02:44 | <sclv> | just look on hackage |
| 10:03:02 | <[exa]> | safinaskar: you can parse it out of the index in your ~/.cabal/packages/ |
| 10:03:06 | <sclv> | but safinaskar as i said the index state flag you want exists! |
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| 10:09:16 | <Athas> | safinaskar: do you also have an old version of GHC? |
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| 10:21:51 | <safinaskar> | sclv: "just look on hackage" - hackage site is not handy. i need to manually click to every version to see its publication date. i want single table |
| 10:22:07 | <safinaskar> | Athas: yes |
| 10:23:32 | <sphi> | [exa]: tdammers: dminuoso: just ran my first servant program ! |
| 10:23:38 | <sphi> | : D |
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| 10:36:17 | <[exa]> | sphi: ...a type-level or term-level program? :D |
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| 10:48:27 | hackage | phonetic-languages-phonetics-basics 0.6.2.0 - A library for working with generalized phonetic languages usage. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-phonetics-basics-0.6.2.0 (OleksandrZhabenko) |
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| 10:55:07 | <timCF> | Hello! Any Dhall users here? I'm thinking what is the easiest way to merge 2 records with `Optional` fields without overriding `Some x` values with `None` values. Default way `let res = foo // bar // buz` will produce record with `res.hello == None` in case where `buz.hello == None` regardless what `foo.hello` and `bar.hello` are. |
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| 11:03:57 | hackage | phonetic-languages-simplified-generalized-properties-array 0.1.1.0 - Generalization of the functionality of the phonetic-languages-simplified-properties-array. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-simplified-generalized-properties-array-0.1.1.0 (OleksandrZhabenko) |
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| 11:07:57 | hackage | phonetic-languages-simplified-generalized-examples-common 0.1.1.0 - Some common code for phonetic languages generalized functionality. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-simplified-generalized-examples-common-0.1.1.0 (OleksandrZhabenko) |
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| 11:13:52 | <Gurkenglas> | https://bpa.st/22KA what would cause https://github.com/antalsz/hs-to-coq#building-the-base-library to fail like this? https://github.com/antalsz/hs-to-coq/blob/master/base/GHC/Wf.v has 39 bytes so maybe make didn't expect the file to end where it did? (Is this the right channel?) |
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| 11:21:57 | hackage | phonetic-languages-simplified-generalized-examples-array 0.1.1.0 - Helps to create texts with the given phonetic properties (e. g. poetic). https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-simplified-generalized-examples-array-0.1.1.0 (OleksandrZhabenko) |
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| 11:23:22 | <safinaskar> | i still unable to build old unmaintained package |
| 11:23:40 | <safinaskar> | is it possible to download package, edit source manually |
| 11:23:45 | <safinaskar> | and install? |
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| 11:24:01 | <safinaskar> | is there some guide? |
| 11:24:27 | hackage | unicode-tricks 0.9.0.0 - Functions to work with unicode blocks more convenient. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/unicode-tricks-0.9.0.0 (wvanonsem90) |
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| 11:29:16 | <sphi> | [exa]: the kind that serves JSON when i cURL it : P |
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| 11:31:33 | <[exa]> | (...type-level json?) |
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| 11:32:01 | <sphi> | [exa]: not sure : P |
| 11:33:30 | <dminuoso> | safinaskar: Hard to say in general. Usually you'd identify the outdated bounds and try and bump them. |
| 11:33:39 | <dminuoso> | Sometimes you might have to patch some packages |
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| 11:42:31 | <safinaskar> | is there some tool, which installs package using brute force? i. e. tries one combinations of packages, if build fails, tries another etc. ideally ghc versions should be added to the mix, too. i have lot of time |
| 11:43:05 | <dminuoso> | Well yeah, that's pretty much what cabal does. |
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| 11:46:33 | <safinaskar> | dminuoso: no, i mean this: take some package versions, then actually build, if build fails, try another combination, etc |
| 11:46:44 | <hpc> | like hackage's matrix thing? |
| 11:47:09 | <dminuoso> | safinaskar: combination of what exactly? |
| 11:47:30 | <dminuoso> | safinaskar: If its just the versions from hackage, then again, that's exactly what cabal does. |
| 11:47:55 | <dminuoso> | cabal generates a build plan by, essentially, brute forcing all version combinations (it just always starts off with the most recent version) |
| 11:48:19 | <dminuoso> | the first plan that matches all constraints (e.g. version constraints) is accepted |
| 11:49:14 | <dminuoso> | the usually fixed variable is the base dependency, since that depends on which ghc version you have installed locally |
| 11:50:26 | <dminuoso> | (to be precise, cabal is a sat solver) |
| 11:50:27 | hackage | vcs-ignore 0.0.1.0 - Library for handling files ignored by VCS systems. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/vcs-ignore-0.0.1.0 (xwinus) |
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| 11:52:14 | <tomsmeding> | dminuoso: given that safinaskar wrote "then actually build, if build fails, ...", I think they mean a tool that not only checks the version bounds, but actually tries to build a package using the chosen plan and backtracks if that fails |
| 11:52:49 | <tomsmeding> | I don't think such a tool exists, but if it would exist it would be terribly slow, since there are usually many many possible version combinations |
| 11:53:01 | <dminuoso> | ah |
| 11:53:02 | <safinaskar> | hpc: "hackage's matrix thing" - can it help me to build particular package? |
| 11:53:45 | <tomsmeding> | safinaskar: if you happen to know that a particular version of some dependency would make the build work, you can use the --constraint argument of 'cabal build' to add an extra version constraint to the solver |
| 11:54:17 | <safinaskar> | dminuoso: "If its just the versions from hackage, then again, that's exactly what cabal does" - i want to build package with possibly incorrect bounds. i. e. if "normal" build fails, i want some automatic tool to try to pick some dependency with earlier version |
| 11:54:18 | <tomsmeding> | safinaskar: https://matrix.hackage.haskell.org/ tries to build packages with a number of different ghc versions |
| 11:54:28 | <tomsmeding> | you may want to check out your package to see if it has a successful build listed |
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| 11:55:56 | <safinaskar> | tomsmeding: "if you happen to know that a particular version of some dependency would make the build work" - i don't know any good combination |
| 11:56:00 | <tomsmeding> | if the correct set of dependency versions is really outside package-specified bounds, i.e. the bounds are really _incorrect_ (unlikely, since presumably it worked at some point in the past), then you have no choice except building it manually, locally; I'm not sure if there are guides on that, but we could help if this becomes necessary |
| 11:56:38 | <tomsmeding> | safinaskar: even if you don't know a good combination, you can use that '--constraint' argument to experiment :) |
| 11:56:42 | <tomsmeding> | which package are you talking about |
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| 11:58:57 | <safinaskar> | tomsmeding: "https://matrix.hackage.haskell.org/ tries to build packages with a number of different ghc versions" - wow, thanks |
| 11:59:17 | <safinaskar> | tomsmeding: i need package "syntax". and i actually see some good combinations in table |
| 11:59:22 | <safinaskar> | tomsmeding: thanks, i will try them |
| 11:59:34 | <tomsmeding> | safinaskar: mind that what it does is start with a number of different ghc versions, then solve the bounds using cabal normally, then try to build -- it doesn't do this after-build-fail backtracking that you suggested |
| 11:59:41 | <tomsmeding> | nice! |
| 12:00:19 | <tomsmeding> | safinaskar: hm, only a very old version of that package (0.1.1.0) seems to build |
| 12:00:36 | <tomsmeding> | the "OK (no-ip)" isn't success, it means no install plan was found |
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| 12:02:22 | <tomsmeding> | hpc: I can't seem to load a build log for a failed build on the matrix builder; is that expected? (e.g. https://matrix.hackage.haskell.org/#/package/syntax/1.0.0.0/ghc-8.4.4@1595320698 ) |
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| 12:03:29 | <hpc> | maybe? |
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| 12:04:57 | hackage | nvfetcher 0.1.0.0 - Generate nix sources expr for the latest version of packages https://hackage.haskell.org/package/nvfetcher-0.1.0.0 (berberman) |
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| 12:05:34 | <tomsmeding> | hm the corresponding server api response doesn't include a log, perhaps that's why (successful: https://matrix.hackage.haskell.org/api/v2/units/6061cd13-7a63-5383-939f-e4241baee04e ; failing: https://matrix.hackage.haskell.org/api/v2/units/9e955ece-52d8-9803-7636-2399b170fb29 ) |
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| 12:07:47 | <tomsmeding> | ah that package is from pre-MonadFail |
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| 12:10:53 | <siers> | I'd like to make a work queue (I guess channel) for scheduling computations on multiple processors. I can't just run forkIO willy nilly, because I run out of ram. What should I make it out of? |
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| 12:11:36 | <hpc> | siers: use a Chan and a fixed number of threads maybe? |
| 12:12:14 | <hpc> | you can feed it data for what computations to run and have each thread in a loop |
| 12:12:33 | <hpc> | or you can even feed it the actions themselves, and have it be a Chan (IO ()) or similar |
| 12:14:53 | <siers> | ok, then I need the "process this list (foreverM (readChan chan)) on N processors and start it on a new one, when possible" part |
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| 12:16:19 | <siers> | this might have something like that, but I do not really understand how to use it https://hackage.haskell.org/package/parallel |
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| 12:26:30 | <pagnol> | Anyone familiar with http-client? I'm getting an exception even though the server responded with 200 and I can't figure out the reason |
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| 12:35:00 | <siers> | not sure how to write such a strategy with parallel |
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| 12:52:39 | <tomsmeding> | siers: perhaps something like this? parInNThreads nthreads l = concat (withStrategy (parList rpar) (transpose (chunk nthreads l))), where chunk is like in https://hackage.haskell.org/package/parallel-3.2.2.0/docs/src/Control.Parallel.Strategies.html#chunk |
| 12:52:48 | <tomsmeding> | (untested) |
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| 12:55:36 | <siers> | @hoogle chunk |
| 12:55:36 | <lambdabot> | Data.ByteString.Lazy.Internal chunk :: ByteString -> ByteString -> ByteString |
| 12:55:36 | <lambdabot> | Data.Text.Internal.Lazy chunk :: Text -> Text -> Text |
| 12:55:36 | <lambdabot> | Text.Megaparsec chunk :: MonadParsec e s m => Tokens s -> m (Tokens s) |
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| 12:56:18 | <siers> | I understand that you're assuming we have some `chunk' that works the way we expect, ok |
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| 12:56:51 | <siers> | I think haskell's runtime settings also limit the most number of processors it uses, so maybe it's fine to just parList? |
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| 12:58:04 | <siers> | tomsmeding, http://sprunge.us/1AYyH3 what the hell? |
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| 13:00:06 | <tomsmeding> | siers: what exactly are you trying to show? |
| 13:00:40 | <siers> | it typechecked [a] -> b against a -> Int |
| 13:00:55 | <tomsmeding> | you can try using parList but I believe that will just create N sparks where N is the length of the list; that may work but it might be more efficient to explicitly split it into a number of jobs that is equal to the number of processors you have |
| 13:01:08 | <tomsmeding> | depending on the runtime system performance |
| 13:01:52 | <dminuoso> | pagnol: Compile everything with profiling, and then use `+RTC -xc` ? |
| 13:02:11 | <tomsmeding> | siers: well your ($|| parList rseq) can take any value of type ([a] -> b) for any a and b, and the argument you're giving it, 'tl', has type c -> Int for any c. So c ~ [a] and b ~ Int and it unifies? |
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| 13:03:03 | <siers> | yikes, you're right |
| 13:03:23 | <tomsmeding> | (just talking about types, not about what anything of this means) |
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| 13:06:06 | <siers> | parInNThreads might work |
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| 13:21:06 | <pagnol> | I just wasted 4 hours because I assumed cabal retrieves the most recent version of a package if no version contraint is specified |
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| 13:22:44 | <tomsmeding> | siers: I also wrote this at some point: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/dFmuEgZ7 |
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| 13:23:15 | <tomsmeding> | it uses explicit (haskell-)threads using forkIO in order to be a bit more deterministic (in my experience) |
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| 13:23:50 | <tomsmeding> | if you don't understand what the (a -> b) projection function is for, just pass 'id' |
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| 13:24:20 | <tomsmeding> | also note that it explicitly uses one _less_ than getNumCapabilities because in my experience, using all doesn't work and blocks some of the threads from even spawning |
| 13:25:09 | <siers> | what does the projection function do? :) |
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| 13:26:35 | <tomsmeding> | it allows you to evaluate a _component_ of the structure |
| 13:26:57 | <tomsmeding> | e.g. by passing 'fst', you can have of list of pairs where you evaluate the first components in parallel, not touching the second components at all |
| 13:27:05 | <siers> | ah |
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| 13:27:33 | <tomsmeding> | 'parSeq b f l' is equivalent to 'parSeq b id (map f l)' I think |
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| 13:35:03 | <dminuoso> | pagnol: it does. |
| 13:35:16 | <siers> | tomsmeding, are sparks cooperative? |
| 13:35:25 | <dminuoso> | pagnol: or rather, the most recent version for which cabal can find a suitable build plan, according to all existing constraints. |
| 13:36:30 | <tomsmeding> | siers: I _think_ sparks and forkIO threads are both cooperative, but only at point where they allocate -- so if you have a busy loop on unboxed values that doesn't allocate anything, you might block the thread |
| 13:36:36 | <tomsmeding> | but don't take my word for it |
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| 13:37:54 | <siers> | should parallel work in ghci -threaded -with-rtsopts='-N8'? |
| 13:38:00 | <siers> | or must I compile it? |
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| 13:48:57 | hackage | mnist-idx-conduit 0.1.0.0 - conduit utilities for MNIST IDX files https://hackage.haskell.org/package/mnist-idx-conduit-0.1.0.0 (ocramz) |
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| 13:59:27 | hackage | mnist-idx-conduit 0.2.0.0 - conduit utilities for MNIST IDX files https://hackage.haskell.org/package/mnist-idx-conduit-0.2.0.0 (ocramz) |
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| 14:01:10 | <pagnol> | dminuoso: what you're saying seems to be at odds with my most recent experience, but it's possible there's something I'm missing |
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| 14:01:27 | hackage | pseudo-boolean 0.1.10.0 - Reading/Writing OPB/WBO files used in pseudo boolean competition https://hackage.haskell.org/package/pseudo-boolean-0.1.10.0 (MasahiroSakai) |
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| 14:11:06 | <dminuoso> | pagnol: Feel free to present an example here or at an issue tracker, should have one. |
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| 14:15:19 | <tomsmeding> | pagnol: at the very least the claim relies on you having run 'cabal update' recently |
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| 14:16:49 | <dminuoso> | Of course, there could be the odd example of where downgrading `foo` would allow cabal to use newer versions of other packages.. |
| 14:17:14 | <dminuoso> | But cabal cant find that out, because it doesn't actually do an exhaustive search of all combinations |
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| 14:26:57 | hackage | interval-algebra 0.6.3 - An implementation of Allen's interval algebra for temporal logic https://hackage.haskell.org/package/interval-algebra-0.6.3 (bradleysaul) |
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| 14:36:27 | hackage | faktory 1.0.2.2 - Faktory Worker for Haskell https://hackage.haskell.org/package/faktory-1.0.2.2 (PatrickBrisbin) |
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| 17:04:56 | <Rembane> | dminuoso: I agree with that. The semantics of the DOM and API of the DOM are both quite wonky. Isn't Haskell suited for modelling wonky semantics? :) |
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| 17:07:01 | <dminuoso> | Rembane: If this was just plain HTML, sure. But you dont get to have a single coherent abstraction that spans all the moving parts well enough. |
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| 17:08:26 | <dminuoso> | Especially if that abstraction should still be useful, and carry its own semantics |
| 17:08:32 | <Rembane> | dminuoso: Indeed, and there are surprisingly many moving parts. |
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| 17:09:40 | <dminuoso> | webasm was an attempt to introduce something fundamental to at least provide alternatives around JavaScript, but it lacks a few principle ideas such as manual memory management, making it a real PITA to use well enough |
| 17:10:13 | <dminuoso> | Right now webasm is non-ideal for any language that attempts to do its own memory management ontop, like say GHC |
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| 17:13:40 | <Rembane> | Indeed. That's a bummer. |
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| 17:32:23 | <juri_> | hmm. in ghci, how do i get a string to show after interpolation, instead of before? |
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| 17:36:29 | <[exa]> | juri_: for what exact kind of string interpolation? Data.String.Interpolate? |
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| 17:38:05 | <[exa]> | (try adding `:: String`) |
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| 17:39:13 | <juri_> | C style interpolation. |
| 17:39:54 | <juri_> | as in, don't put the quotes on the beginning and the end, and do interpolation for \n, \", etc. |
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| 17:40:29 | <wz1000> | juri_: putStrLn? |
| 17:41:00 | <juri_> | wz1000: perfect, thanks. |
| 17:41:08 | <[exa]> | juri_: ah that's more like "special characters" than interpolation I guess |
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| 17:58:49 | <Andriamanitra> | i'm reading through https://wiki.haskell.org/Exception and trying to understand how to handle exceptions thrown by the "read" function but i think i'm doing it all wrong because i keep getting errors https://paste.tomsmeding.com/55WK2UiV |
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| 17:59:35 | <Andriamanitra> | the end goal is to throw a custom error when an invalid AnimalType is given, is this completely wrong approach? |
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| 18:05:27 | <monochrom> | In this case it is much much better to import Text.Read and use readMaybe. |
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| 18:06:36 | <monochrom> | Haskell's exception system works much better for I/O, but parsing is not I/O. |
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| 18:08:50 | <Andriamanitra> | so anything like this isn't possible unless i import something? |
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| 18:09:50 | <jil> | hello |
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| 18:11:18 | <jil> | How can I source the content of a .hs file from an org mode haskell code block in an emacs buffer ? |
| 18:11:32 | <enikar> | Andriamanitra: there is no problem with importing. As well Text.Read is in base (or at least with ghc). |
| 18:11:39 | <monochrom> | Huh, the exception system would need importing something, too. |
| 18:12:25 | <Andriamanitra> | i understand that if i have a function that returns "Maybe a" it's easy to pattern match but what if i only had access to function like read that just causes an exception? is there a way to make a function that wraps that exception and returns "Maybe a" instead? |
| 18:12:48 | <geekosaur> | there is but it's in a separate package and it's fugly |
| 18:12:58 | <monochrom> | Demand access to a function that gives you Maybe instead. |
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| 18:13:15 | <geekosaur> | Text.Read.readMaybe is the right solution here |
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| 18:14:12 | <monochrom> | What is the real question? |
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| 18:14:26 | enikar | likes the couple readMaybe/fromMaybe |
| 18:14:39 | <Andriamanitra> | i'm just trying to understand the exception system and how to use it |
| 18:14:51 | <Andriamanitra> | but it seems it's better to avoid it altogether? |
| 18:15:05 | <Iceland_jack> | Andriamanitra: You can reify an exception with 'try' (https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.15.0.0/docs/Control-Exception.html#v:try) |
| 18:15:06 | <monochrom> | But parsing is a wrong example for learning the exception system. |
| 18:15:19 | <monochrom> | <monochrom> Haskell's exception system works much better for I/O, but parsing is not I/O. |
| 18:15:29 | <enikar> | the exception system is usefull when working in IO, for reading/writing files, for example. |
| 18:16:02 | <ski> | Andriamanitra : you could also use `reads' directly (which is exported by `Prelude'), but it's more convenient to use `readMaybe', if you don't intend to continue parsing any trailing remainder |
| 18:16:07 | <Andriamanitra> | i see, i think i got confused because read by default uses errors.. you'd expect standard library to follow conventions |
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| 18:16:33 | <ski> | Andriamanitra : is there a reason why you want to use `error' for possibly user input ? |
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| 18:16:53 | <monochrom> | The standard library follows multiple conventions. |
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| 18:17:28 | <monochrom> | Generally, any evolved-by-committee thing does. |
| 18:17:36 | <Andriamanitra> | ski: probably not but i'm doing an assignment and the spec says i should throw errors.. i guess the assignment is flawed |
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| 18:17:45 | <enikar> | I experiment a little exception in pure code, but they should only be catch in IO. And exception thrown in pure code are « imprecise ». |
| 18:18:07 | <ski> | Andriamanitra : does it require you to throw any particular error messages ? |
| 18:18:14 | <Zemyla> | You know, readMaybe doesn't necessarily protect against exceptions. |
| 18:18:15 | <monochrom> | Oh, for homework I would instruct students to throw errors and call it a day too. |
| 18:18:23 | <Zemyla> | > readMaybe "1 % 0" :: Maybe Rational |
| 18:18:25 | <lambdabot> | Just *Exception: Ratio has zero denominator |
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| 18:18:46 | <monochrom> | At least when the error case is beside the point of the homework in question. |
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| 18:19:08 | <Andriamanitra> | ski: yes, does that make a difference? |
| 18:19:30 | <monochrom> | What you will really learn in Haskell, at a meta level, is that we disbelieve in one-size-fits-all, unlike other cultures out there. |
| 18:19:52 | <monochrom> | If you're looking for "always use exception" or "never use exception" you will be disappointed. |
| 18:19:57 | hackage | simplexmq 0.3.1 - SimpleXMQ message broker https://hackage.haskell.org/package/simplexmq-0.3.1 (epoberezkin) |
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| 18:20:27 | <ski> | Andriamanitra : if you're okay with any error aborting the program, if the user input is invalid, you could use `readIO str' (this has the advantage that it will give the error at the point this is executed, rather than later, when you try to look at the animal) |
| 18:20:45 | <jil> | Ok, Is the same syntax as if I were in ghci :load myfile.hs |
| 18:20:47 | <Iceland_jack> | Haskell's philosophy has evolved, we care about totality a lot more now |
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| 18:21:08 | <Zemyla> | Which is why my read rational example is so galling to me. |
| 18:21:47 | <Zemyla> | I feel like read "1 % 0" should either return 1 :% 0 or fail to parse. |
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| 18:23:00 | <enikar> | instead, it doesn't fail to parse. It fails when evaluating `1 % 0` |
| 18:24:25 | <Zemyla> | See, that's the big problem. If it's going to return an error, it should fail to parse instead. |
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| 18:24:40 | <monochrom> | That is going to be the next great debate. |
| 18:24:55 | <Zemyla> | It can test for zero, because it has an Integral constraint. |
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| 18:28:26 | <ski> | Andriamanitra : fwiw, the inclusion of `Other' seems dubious |
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| 18:30:49 | <Andriamanitra> | ski: yeah i would agree, but that's just a minimal example of what i'm trying to do, not the actual assignment/code |
| 18:32:16 | <ski> | Andriamanitra : as pertains to `Read', generally i'd prefer `readMaybe' or `reads' (or `readsPrec') over `read', unless you feel confident that you're not going to pass invalid input to it, or, should that happen, you're okay with the computation aborting. however, even in this case, if applicable/reasonable, using `readIO' or `readLn' would usually be preferrable |
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| 18:36:54 | <Andriamanitra> | ski: ok thanks, i'll be using readMaybe instead from now on - although for this assignment i'm not allowed to import anything outside prelude so i ended up writing my own function to replace read altogether |
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| 18:43:07 | <ski> | readMaybe s0 = case [x | (x,s1) <- reads s0,("","") <- lex s1] |
| 18:43:21 | <ski> | [x] -> Just x |
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| 18:43:28 | <ski> | _ -> Nothing |
| 18:43:44 | <ski> | (er, add an ` of' at the end of the first line) |
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| 18:45:15 | <ski> | Andriamanitra : ^ takes care of using `reads' for you, then checking that there's nothing (apart from whitespace) after what you parsed, also checking that you get a single definite parse result |
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| 18:47:43 | <Andriamanitra> | ski: can you explain the `("","") <- lex s1` part? |
| 18:48:18 | <Andriamanitra> | looks like it's putting something into tuple of empty strings but that doesn't make sense |
| 18:48:26 | <ski> | > reads " 23 " :: [(Int,String)] |
| 18:48:28 | <lambdabot> | [(23," ")] |
| 18:48:36 | <ski> | > (reads :: ReadS Int) " 23 " |
| 18:48:37 | <lambdabot> | [(23," ")] |
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| 18:48:58 | <ski> | `reads' gives a list of pairs of parsed result, and remainder of input |
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| 18:49:54 | <ski> | so `s1' will be any remainder of the input `s0', after having parsed some initial prefix of it into the value `x' |
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| 18:51:21 | <ski> | `lex' parses a single (Haskell) token from a string (also giving back remainder of input, just like `reads'). as a special case, if there is no more tokens (so it's only whitespace, including when the remainder is empty), `lex' will give back `("","")' ("empty token with empty remainder") as result |
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| 18:51:53 | <ski> | so, we're using `("","") <- lex s1' here to check that there's nothing more in the remainder, except possibly whitespace |
| 18:52:18 | <ski> | > (reads :: ReadS Int) " 23 abc 7 " |
| 18:52:20 | <lambdabot> | [(23," abc 7 ")] |
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| 18:52:55 | <Andriamanitra> | ah i see, so that's like pattern matching the result of "lex s1", and the reason lex is needed is that s1=="" wouldn't allow trailing whitespace? |
| 18:53:08 | <ski> | yes |
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| 18:53:24 | <Andriamanitra> | thanks for the explanation |
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| 18:54:52 | <ski> | (of course, perhaps you'd prefer not allowing trailing whitespace as well. but `reads' already does support initial whitespace, so it seems reasonable to support trailing here, for a function like `readMaybe' that's intended to be used on the "top-level" of parsing, not as a component of further parsing) |
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| 18:57:59 | <ski> | (`reads' itself, otoh, is intended to be possible to "chain" with other uses of `reads' (or `readsPrec'), e.g. if making an instance of `Read' by hand (something which only rarely is a reasonable thing to do) -- and therefore it would seem useless for `reads' itself to eat trailing whitespace, since the next `reads' will consume it anyway ..) |
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| 19:01:57 | hackage | io-streams 1.5.2.1 - Simple, composable, and easy-to-use stream I/O https://hackage.haskell.org/package/io-streams-1.5.2.1 (DougBeardsley) |
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| 19:22:27 | hackage | unicode-tricks 0.9.1.0 - Functions to work with unicode blocks more convenient. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/unicode-tricks-0.9.1.0 (wvanonsem90) |
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| 20:24:37 | <nut> | is there a cabal command to list all flags inside a package? |
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| 20:33:03 | Katarushisu7 | is now known as Katarushisu |
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| 20:35:13 | <Uniaika> | nut: cat *.cabal |
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| 20:36:39 | <nut> | i'll use grep flag *.cabal :) thx |
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| 21:54:27 | hackage | realworldhaskell 0.0.1.0 - The Real World Haskell Book https://hackage.haskell.org/package/realworldhaskell-0.0.1.0 (aniketd) |
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| 23:10:10 | <fresheyeball> | is there any reason to not put INLINEABLE on every single function in a library? |
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| 23:12:44 | <nolrai> | Isn't that the default? |
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| 23:55:26 | <chris__> | hi |
| 23:57:25 | <Axman6> | Hello |
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All times are in UTC on 2021-05-10.