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Logs on 2021-05-16 (freenode/#haskell)

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00:04:46 <Maxdamantus> What's the name of the GHC extension that allows `do` notation to reduce to something other than the standard `Monad` class?
00:06:06 <Maxdamantus> Ah, RebindableSyntax.
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00:31:05 <geekosaur> unless you mean ApplicativeDo
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00:39:09 <Maxdamantus> No, I was thinking specifically about some sort of shadowing behaviour, which RebindableSyntax has, but ApplicativeDo doesn't.
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00:48:44 <yushyin> Maxdamantus: a recent addition is also qualifiedo
00:48:47 <yushyin> Maxdamantus: https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/exts/qualified_do.html?extension-QualifiedDo
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01:19:20 <koz_> What's a good way of writing a function of type NonEmpty a -> [[a]], which gives all _proper_ sublists? As in, everything not equal to myself.
01:19:40 <koz_> Ideally, order should be from smaller sublists to bigger.
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03:04:52 <a6a45081-2b83> how to install haskell programs such as hadolint without registering the dependencies in global ghc-pkg (sudo pacman -S hadolint?)
03:07:38 <dmwit> I believe the default behavior of cabal these days does not install dependencies into the global package database.
03:08:16 <hrnz> I believe the default behaviour of this channel these days is to tell people not to use arch haskell packages
03:08:21 <dmwit> So... `cabal install --exes hadolint` would be my recommendation, assuming `hadolint` is the name of the package that provides whatever executable you care about.
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03:12:25 <a6a45081-2b83> dmwit: yeah I think that's great. Seems like one downside is that I have to compile it myself.
03:17:03 <davean> a6a45081-2b83: I'd warn that using arch will generally be difficult with Haskell because they break packages.
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03:19:18 <dmwit> koz_: What does "sublist" mean?
03:20:03 <koz_> dmwit: The elements at a subset of the valid indices of the list.
03:20:23 <dmwit> Okay. I'd probably just drop the last element of `subsequences . toList`.
03:20:31 <dmwit> > subsequences "abc"
03:20:32 <lambdabot> ["","a","b","ab","c","ac","bc","abc"]
03:20:38 <dmwit> > init $ subsequences "abc"
03:20:40 <lambdabot> ["","a","b","ab","c","ac","bc"]
03:20:41 <koz_> Figures.
03:20:43 <koz_> Thanks!
03:22:20 <dmwit> > (inits >=> tails) "abc"
03:22:21 <lambdabot> ["","a","","ab","b","","abc","bc","c",""]
03:22:44 <dmwit> > (drop 1 . inits >=> tails) "abc"
03:22:46 <lambdabot> ["a","","ab","b","","abc","bc","c",""]
03:22:55 <dmwit> err... hm
03:23:49 <dmwit> > [] : (inits >=> drop 1 . tails) "abc"
03:23:51 <lambdabot> ["","","b","","bc","c",""]
03:24:03 <dmwit> ok I give up
03:25:02 <dmwit> > [] : (inits >=> init . tails) "abc" -- I lied
03:25:05 <lambdabot> ["","a","ab","b","abc","bc","c"]
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03:29:07 <a6a45081-2b83> davean: I agree, I only limit installing globally usable packages with pacman like pandoc/shellcheck/hadolint. Otherwise I use cabal/stack
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03:36:10 <dmwit> I guess I don't really know what you want. You don't like your distro's package manager, and you don't like the Haskell community's de-facto package managers (both of which build from source). Which is fine and all, but what are you really expecting of us?
03:36:25 <dmwit> Should we magic up a different package manager somehow?
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03:48:13 <hrnz> https://stuff.hrnz.li/677150485379022858.gif
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03:54:16 <dmwit> Sure, you can switch distros. I strongly encourage it, if you're starting out on Arch.
03:54:50 <dmwit> Seems like kind of a big hammer for this nail.
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04:39:40 <Andriamanitra> why doesn't this work? i'm basically trying to create a union type that can be "Int" or "Reg": https://paste.tomsmeding.com/waFImXzW
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04:41:04 <dmwit> Andriamanitra: Compare `data Reg = A | B` and `data Val = Reg | Int`.
04:41:17 <dmwit> (By way of hint.)
04:41:36 <dmwit> (If this is not enough of a hint, just say and I'll happily spell it out in full detail.)
04:42:21 <Andriamanitra> i think i get what you're saying but i don't know how to get around it
04:42:42 <dmwit> The usual way is `data Val = Reg Reg | Int Int`.
04:42:47 <dmwit> Kind of sneaky.
04:43:19 <dmwit> The first in each pair defines a new computation-level thing, and the second in each pair refers to an existing type-level thing.
04:43:23 <Andriamanitra> thanks, that works!
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05:32:38 <sahlane> yo
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05:45:43 <a6a45081-2b83> which is haskell
05:45:52 <a6a45081-2b83> 's REST client/library?
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06:10:45 <charukiewicz> a6a45081-2b83: are you asking about which Haskell libraries can be used to build a client that interacts with a REST API?
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06:11:13 <a6a45081-2b83> which haskell libraries can be used to make REST requests...
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06:12:07 <charukiewicz> some options in order of simplicity: req, wreq, servant-client
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06:26:53 <a6a45081-2b83> and should i use sqlite3 or persist ?
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07:12:20 <a6a45081-2b83> @hoogle Parser a -> IO a
07:12:21 <lambdabot> ELynx.Tools parseIOWith :: Parser a -> IO a
07:12:21 <lambdabot> Basement.Monad unsafePrimToIO :: PrimMonad prim => prim a -> IO a
07:12:21 <lambdabot> Generic.Data.Internal.Utils coerce' :: Coercible (f x) (g x) => f x -> g x
07:12:33 <a6a45081-2b83> what should I use?
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07:21:59 <olligobber> % :t \x -> interact $ parse x "Standard Input"
07:21:59 <yahb> olligobber: ; <interactive>:1:18: error: Variable not in scope: parse :: t -> String -> String -> String
07:22:26 <olligobber> wait, you wrote Parser not Parsec
07:23:37 <olligobber> % :t \x -> getContents >>= parseTest x
07:23:37 <yahb> olligobber: ; <interactive>:1:23: error: Variable not in scope: parseTest :: t -> String -> IO b
07:24:25 <olligobber> a6a45081-2b83, what library are you getting Parser from?
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07:32:36 <charukiewicz> a6a45081-2b83: If you're using SQLite and want something pretty simple, some good options are going to be sqlite-simple and persistent. sqlite3 is going to be linked into each of these during compile time. I recommend using persistent since it allows you to define your database model types in Haskell and gives you type safety when querying your data.
07:33:21 <a6a45081-2b83> charukiewicz: thanks, that's very informative
07:34:03 <a6a45081-2b83> olligobber: http-conduit -> aeson -> sqlite-simple . I am trying to get nested objects in json
07:34:06 <charukiewicz> Keep in mind, however, that persistent has a pretty simple query API and doesn't support joins. If you need joins then you'll need to write raw SQL (persistent has a function that lets you write perpared statements), or you can use the library called Esqueleto, which expands on persistent and introduces a type-safe SQL syntax that supports joins and other more common SQL operations
07:34:35 <a6a45081-2b83> I am getting confused with the fmaps and <$> I am using to get nested object from Json
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07:41:45 <olligobber> a6a45081-2b83, I don't see a Parser in any of those packages
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07:43:53 <a6a45081-2b83> aeson
07:46:18 <a6a45081-2b83> probably i should use lens here
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08:00:20 <pavonia> Is JuicyPixels the best option when dealing with indexed/palletized image formats? For example, it doesn't seem to be able to write PNGs with bit depths smaller than 8. Perhaps there's a better alternative
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09:14:11 <a6a45081-2b83> can i limit the elements traversed?
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09:20:17 <kuribas> How do I make a multiparam instance with template haskell?
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09:20:23 <kuribas> InstancedD only has one Type.
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09:24:32 <kuribas> Or do I apply the classname to the types?
09:24:58 <[exa]> a6a45081-2b83: "limit" as in "traverse only first 10" ?
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09:38:51 <a6a45081-2b83> yeah
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09:39:07 <a6a45081-2b83> I think I can do traverse . take n
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09:43:48 <[exa]> a6a45081-2b83: yeah that would work nicely for lists I guess. you might need a generic `take` for more complicated stuff
09:45:05 <kuribas> take . toList ?
09:45:33 <[exa]> it was headed that direction, yes.
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09:47:58 <maerwald> charukiewicz: SQL isn't type safe?
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09:49:40 <kuribas> maerwald: not really
09:49:54 <kuribas> maerwald: also, defined SQL
09:50:02 <kuribas> "define SQL"
09:50:08 <kuribas> every dialect is different.
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09:56:32 <maerwald> the types are weak, but I'm not aware that SQL does random type coercion?
09:56:55 <kuribas> define SQL
09:57:21 <kuribas> MySQL will do type coercion rather than raise a type error normally.
09:57:54 <maerwald> so the standard doesn't define it?
09:58:18 <kuribas> what standard?
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09:59:27 <maerwald> there are multiple?
09:59:49 <aldum> there's an SQL standard, and various implementations adhere to it to various degrees
09:59:59 <aldum> as it's customary with standards...
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10:01:55 <maerwald> Would be interesting to know whether the standard says something about type safety
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10:03:37 <aldum> prolly not very safe, it does have NULL after all
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10:13:47 <Schrostfutz> Hi, I'm trying to parse a binary file using attoparsec and have trouble with ByteString literals. I use the `string` function with a string literal, but get a type mismatch between ByteString & [Char]. I probably specify a String literal instead of ByteString but I did it similar to the documentation... What might I be doing wrong? Disclaimer: I'm a complete novice, trying to learn by doing
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10:18:52 <__monty__> Schrostfutz: I can see the confusion, the example code is written to work for both attoparsec and parsec. I think you'll need to enable overloaded strings, add `{-# LANGUAGE OverloadedStrings #-}` to the top of your file.
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10:19:50 <Schrostfutz> __monty__: Thanks a bunch, that fixed it!
10:20:00 <__monty__> \o/
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10:21:57 <__monty__> Schrostfutz: One thing to note is that if you want control over the encoding of the characters you'll have to explicitly convert from String to a ByteString with the correct encoding.
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10:24:13 <Schrostfutz> __monty__: Thanks for the heads-up, I started with Parsec and used the encoding to read the binary file before noticing that Parsec won't allow me to parse binary numbers (if I understood that correctly). Probably I'll have to do the conversion by hand at some point. What module can I find the appropriate functions in?
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10:36:43 <xenon-> what do you mean it won't allow you to parse binary numbers?
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10:38:07 <xenon-> oh, the file is bianary.. didn't read entire sentenc3e
10:38:13 <xenon-> I'm not sure if Pasrec allows that
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10:42:34 <Schrostfutz> xenon-: I managed to convince it to read the file but there's no functions to read those. So I switched to attoparsec only to notice that it also doesn't provide them by default...
10:42:36 <__monty__> Schrostfutz: It depends on the encoding and which type you're working with. For UTF-8 and String, look at the utf8-string package. For Text, look at the text package.
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10:43:15 <__monty__> Schrostfutz: The problem is there's too many ways of representing integers or even floats in a binary format.
10:44:28 <Schrostfutz> __monty__: Thanks! But for things like integers there's just big/little endian, isn't there?
10:45:44 <__monty__> No, one's complement, two's complement, variable length encodings...
10:46:33 <__monty__> Haskell's Integer for example would need a variable length encoding.
10:47:08 <Schrostfutz> Hm, true... So I'll write my own then. Was it then even necessary/sensible to switch to attoparsec If I'll write my own functions for that anyway?
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10:48:45 <Schrostfutz> I also got another type mismatch issue, expected type Char -> IO (), Actual type [Char] -> IO () in the second argument of >>= (putStrLn): http://sprunge.us/5LcIaV But I defined the function to return String, so I don't see how it returns a char.
10:49:16 <__monty__> Schrostfutz: Depends, attoparsec is more specialized to binary formats. If you can provide sensible error messages though, megaparsec's probably much nicer to work with.
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10:50:06 <Schrostfutz> Okay, then I'll stick to attoparsec for now. Focus is anyway not completing the task but learning the language so I can figure out my type mismatches myself.
10:51:18 <__monty__> Learning to work with megaparsec has a little bit more utility than attoparsec imho. But either's probably fine as a means rather than a goal.
10:52:03 <__monty__> @type >>=
10:52:05 <lambdabot> error: parse error on input ‘>>=’
10:52:10 <__monty__> @type (>>=)
10:52:11 <lambdabot> Monad m => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b
10:52:32 <__monty__> Schrostfutz: Can you match that type to `readStream >>= putStrLn`?
10:53:00 <__monty__> Oh, but pretend readStream's been applied to something.
10:53:20 <__monty__> So `readStream someByteString >>= putStrLn`.
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10:55:32 <Schrostfutz> So this is how I understand it (terminology is probably way off...): readStream returns a String that is within the IO Monad so I have `IO String -> (String -> IO b)` -> IO b. putStrLn has type String -> IO (), so b == (), and I get `IO String -> (String -> IO ()) -> IO ()`?
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10:58:08 <__monty__> Where do you get IO? Afaict readStream takes a String and returns a ByteString.
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11:00:25 <Schrostfutz> __monty__: Ah! I thought it was implicitly added into the monad, but I suppose I'll have to `liftM` it
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11:03:00 <__monty__> Not quite, you're still inputting a ByteString, not IO ByteString.
11:04:18 <__monty__> So either use (pure (or return) . readStream) or fmap readStream over the previous action. `readStream <$> (hGetContents stdin)`.
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11:16:03 <Schrostfutz> __monty__: Okay, I'm trying to wrap my head around that, thanks!
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11:20:25 <Schrostfutz> Ah, now I understood. I actually tried using return before but with $ just because I mostly saw it used with that so far. Probably that messed up the associativity.
11:21:02 <__monty__> Yeah, feel free to pretend $ doesn't exist for now, just use parentheses.
11:21:40 <Schrostfutz> Alright. In the code above I should also probably use pure over return because Applicative is weaker than a Monad.
11:23:52 <tomjaguarpaw> It seems like I want a backwards version of trace that prints its message *after* something has been evaluated, something like ecart :: String -> a -> a; ecart msg a = seq a (trace msg a) . Has anyone else very wanted that or am I thinking about this wrong?
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11:25:57 <tomjaguarpaw> *ever wanted that
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11:34:54 <kilolympus> Is there any way to achieve this? f x a b c d e f g.... -> f a b c d e f g.... x
11:35:10 <kilolympus> Mainly for syntactic cleanness for my DSL
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11:38:29 <tomjaguarpaw> @type flip . fmap flip . (fmap . fmap) flip . (fmap . fmap . fmap) flip
11:38:30 <lambdabot> (a1 -> a2 -> a3 -> a4 -> b -> c) -> b -> a1 -> a2 -> a3 -> a4 -> c
11:39:08 <tomjaguarpaw> @type (fmap . fmap . fmap) flip . (fmap . fmap) flip . fmap flip . flip
11:39:10 <lambdabot> (a -> b1 -> b2 -> b3 -> b4 -> c) -> b1 -> b2 -> b3 -> b4 -> a -> c
11:39:27 <tomjaguarpaw> kilolympus: I guess you wanted the second one. I'm not sure how to make that simpler though
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11:40:49 <kilolympus> Hmm
11:41:05 <kilolympus> That's exactly what I want, but with arbitrary elements
11:41:09 <kilolympus> s/elements/arguments
11:41:16 <kilolympus> which makes it much more difficult
11:41:35 <kilolympus> Maybe I'll take a look at redesigning my DSL then
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12:36:42 <kuribas> is there a template haskell function to remove qualifiers? For example: GHC.Base.<> => <>
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12:40:09 <kuribas> it's just for pretty printing
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12:57:04 <guriya> someone here write python inspired from haskell?
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12:58:03 <Logio> it's generally not worth the trouble to emulate Haskellisms in Python
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12:58:37 <Logio> it just makes you pine for purity even more than writing python in general
12:59:37 <juri_> i've had a haskell program i've written re-written in python at least three times. all of that effort was wasted, sadly.
13:00:09 <kuribas> juri_: just why?
13:00:26 <juri_> kuribas: people don't want to learn haskell, so they emulate it, badly.
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13:03:42 <juri_> at least one of the rewrites was written to get around the license, and was a commercial success, however.
13:04:05 juri_ makes obscene gestures in that paticular user's direction.
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13:05:04 <kuribas> juri_: so it wasn't your program?
13:06:10 <juri_> in a strict sense, no. it was just written while refering to my program, with the intent of selling it to do exactly what my program does.
13:07:18 <Axman6> Any onw know how in SBV to say that a symbolic value is equal to a specific value? I can't for the life of me figure out how to say that something of SBV Digit (where Digit = D1 | D2 | ...) is equal to D1
13:07:44 <Axman6> urgh, after 10 minutes of searching, I find `literal` immediately
13:08:17 <maerwald> guriya: yes
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13:08:49 <maerwald> there's only coconut and the abstractions aren't clean
13:08:53 <guriya> maerwald is it possible to show me any of your program?
13:09:01 <maerwald> so they creep through
13:09:13 <guriya> coconut?
13:09:14 <maerwald> no, I wrote a proprietary program using coconut
13:09:29 <maerwald> http://coconut-lang.org/
13:09:38 <maerwald> valid python is valid coconut
13:10:34 <maerwald> it was a great way to make sure whoever comes after me is going to hate me
13:10:48 <guriya> maerwald thank you
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13:12:12 <guriya> maerwald you takedecissions in your team? no objections?
13:12:24 <maerwald> there was no team
13:12:35 <maerwald> no one asked, they just wanted a program
13:12:38 <maerwald> so they got one
13:13:02 <maerwald> advice: don't do it :p
13:13:17 <maerwald> the bus factor of this language is 1, afair
13:13:48 <kuribas> is there a way to pretty print a data structure with indentation?
13:14:08 <guriya> maerwald (y)
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13:14:59 <maerwald> @hackage pretty-simple -- kuribas?
13:14:59 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/pretty-simple -- kuribas?
13:15:12 <kuribas> maerwald: *with indentation*
13:15:15 <maerwald> that's basically converting stuff to json and then printing
13:15:29 <kuribas> No, readable in a haskell source file.
13:15:36 <maerwald> kuribas: ah
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13:24:52 <kuribas> maerwald: hmm, I could indent the pretty-simple generated text.
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13:30:44 <Guest81993> hi, is there a common function of type `(a -> Either b a) -> a -> b` ? Hoogle doesn't find anything, but it feels like a pretty common behavior - simply unfold from a starting point until you get a `b` which breaks the recursion.
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13:32:15 <Guest81993> I implemented it as `unfold f x = either id (unfold f) $ f x`
13:32:36 <xenon-> :t either
13:32:37 <lambdabot> (a -> c) -> (b -> c) -> Either a b -> c
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13:33:29 <xenon-> :t either id
13:33:30 <lambdabot> (b -> c) -> Either c b -> c
13:33:51 <xenon-> nope
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13:44:24 <kuribas> @hoogle [m [a]] -> m [a]
13:44:25 <lambdabot> No results found
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13:44:34 <kuribas> @hoogle Monad m => [m [a]] -> m [a]
13:44:35 <lambdabot> No results found
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14:08:15 <kuribas> :t fmap concat . sequence
14:08:16 <lambdabot> (Traversable t, Monad f) => t (f [a]) -> f [a]
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15:49:16 <Schrostfutz> I find myself getting lots of naming clashes from imports. What is the idiomatic way to handle this? In python the haskell default import behavior is actually not liked, but is it recommended for haskell? I consider just qualifying all imports with some abbreviation like I'd do in python, but is that good style?
15:49:48 <hpc> sometimes, yes
15:50:10 <boxscape> Schrostfutz there are some commonly used abbreviations for common modules, like `import Data.Text as T`, for example
15:50:10 <hpc> if you're doing lots of stuff with text/bytestring you might want multiple modules imported that all have the same definitions
15:50:33 <boxscape> (actually `import qualified Data.Text as T`)
15:52:32 <Schrostfutz> hpc: That's exactly my situation. Thanks for the advice :)
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15:54:58 <dmwit> ?hoogle (a -> m a) -> m b
15:54:59 <lambdabot> No results found
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15:55:29 <hpc> dmwit: looking for mfix?
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15:55:57 <dmwit> No, I want the version that loops rather than executing just once.
15:56:52 <dmwit> Oh, I see, I got the wrong type, then, huh?
15:57:00 <dmwit> ?hoogle Monad m => (a -> m a) -> a -> m b
15:57:01 <lambdabot> Control.Monad.Loops iterateM_ :: Monad m => (a -> m a) -> a -> m b
15:57:01 <lambdabot> Data.ListLike mapM :: (ListLike full item, Monad m, ListLike full' item') => (item -> m item') -> full -> m full'
15:57:01 <lambdabot> Data.ListLike.Base mapM :: (ListLike full item, Monad m, ListLike full' item') => (item -> m item') -> full -> m full'
15:57:29 <hpc> :t \f -> fix (f >=>)
15:57:31 <lambdabot> Monad m => (a -> m a) -> a -> m c
15:57:39 <dmwit> Right, that.
15:57:55 <hpc> except without a starting point
15:57:56 <hpc> hmm
15:58:07 <hpc> not sure where it would be in hackage
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15:58:26 <dmwit> iterateM_ looks like what I want.
15:58:44 <dmwit> No, I'm okay with it having a starting point. I just had a weakness in my thinking on the first query.
15:59:02 <hpc> ah
15:59:03 <dmwit> Turns out I'm not as good at type inference as my computer is. ;-)
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16:34:25 <charukiewicz> maerwald[m]: No SQL isn't completely type safe, especially not SQLite that OP was using, which is untyped and only has "type affinity", which the SQLite docs describe as "The type affinity of a column is the recommended type for data stored in that column." https://www.sqlite.org/datatype3.html
16:36:09 <charukiewicz> Moreover, even if you are using a SQL database with good typing (PostgreSQL), if you're writing raw SQL, your queries probably aren't statically checked. That's the value of using a pair of libraries like Persistent+Esqueleto - defining your database models in Haskell and then writing queries against them that are checked by Haskell's type system
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16:46:17 <geekosaur> and strictly speaking SQL types don't quite align with common programming language types, so there's always some room for potential mismatch (less with strings [but is its string a ByteString, a Text, or something else e.g. localized?], more with numbers)
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17:03:20 <mysterybear> Hey I'm trying to find an old paper
17:03:24 <mysterybear> it has a tree-drawing exercise in it
17:03:32 <mysterybear> I could've sworn it was about polymorphism :\
17:03:40 <mysterybear> I can no longer find it... does this ring a bell for anybody?
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17:08:19 <mysterybear> ah I found it
17:08:23 <mysterybear> https://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~mpj/pubs/springschool95.pdf mark p. jones
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17:14:47 <hpc> the classic asked-and-answered - doesn't matter how long you wait to ask the question, as soon as you ask you find the answer 5 minutes later
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17:30:36 <blankhart> is "type case" a synonym for GADTs?
17:31:34 <blankhart> looking at https://github.com/gelisam/klister/blob/71c71e6ab768e7e6b43e9402bc127423cd6e562b/src/Evaluator.hs#L297
17:31:41 <electricityZZZZ> so i am writing a recursive function in haskell, and when i make the return value [] + myVal the program terminates, but if the return value is myVal + [], it does not terminate.
17:32:08 <maerwald> charukiewicz: you can easily mess up in persistent as well, when you write your manual PersistField instances
17:32:31 <Rembane> electricityZZZZ: Do you have more code than that available?
17:32:42 <electricityZZZZ> correction: [] ++ myVal terminates, whereas myVal ++ [] does not. i recognize totality in programming (and feel more comfortable using it), but since i am using haskell to get out of my comfort zone, what is this property where the ordering is significant for termination
17:32:44 <maerwald> I found it mostly to be unnecessary chore. DB queries should have 100% test coverage
17:32:49 <Uniaika> electricityZZZZ: first, "+" is not appropriate, it's a numerical operator. Second, due to commutativity, they are fundamentally the same results
17:32:56 <electricityZZZZ> yeah that was a typo
17:33:00 <Uniaika> ok cool
17:33:33 <Uniaika> maerwald: my opinion as well, which is why I'm sticking with https://github.com/tchoutri/pg-entity
17:33:41 <charukiewicz> maerwald: true, but in several years of using Persistent I have seldom found the need to write my own instances. The one time I've done so recently is to map custom PostgreSQL enum types to Haskell types
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17:34:55 <charukiewicz> The reason for this is because I'm okay with keeping my model types as comprised of mostly primitive types and then convert them to domain types through simple conversion functions, as necessary
17:34:56 <maerwald> so when ppl talk about typesafety in SQL, what they actually mean most of the time is mapping their backend types into SQL types
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17:35:40 <Uniaika> or they mean Squeal, at which point I can only comment their soul to whatever divinity they believe in
17:35:45 <charukiewicz> Again, I find this not particularly error prone if you're using Persistent Entity Syntax
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17:36:06 <Uniaika> electricityZZZZ: I don't think there is such a propertu
17:36:10 <Uniaika> *property
17:36:11 <maerwald> I'd much rather write that mapping manually instead of having a bunch of obscure TH and a looot of instances I easily lose overview over
17:38:21 <blankhart> nm looks like the usage is some kind of pure form of dispatching on types https://github.com/gelisam/klister/blob/71c71e6ab768e7e6b43e9402bc127423cd6e562b/examples/which-problem.kl#L25
17:38:53 <charukiewicz> If you prefer to write 60 lines of boilerplate per table instead of using some TH, that's your decision, but after my experience, I much prefer to use the entity syntax to define my types
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17:43:10 <charukiewicz> and more broadly, marshalling data in and out of Haskell is going to be the most error prone part of your code. I try to keep that hand written code at a minimum, which is why I'm a fan of both persistent entity syntax on the database side and using deriveJSON in Aeson to define my encoders/decoders on the http side
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17:48:12 <charukiewicz> The Yesod book gives a good side-by-side as to what the TH generates, and just seeing what's necessary for a 3 column table, I wouldn't recommend anyone write that by hand for their whole database. Here's the relevant bit from the book: https://www.yesodweb.com/book/persistent#persistent_code_generation
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17:58:51 <a6a45081-2b83> any idea how to convert HashMap to Persistent Entities?
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18:16:23 <charukiewicz> a6a45081-2b83: do you want each KV pair in your HashMap to be its own record in your DB?
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18:17:41 <a6a45081-2b83> for e.g. Person {name :: String, age :: Int} then I want f (fromList [("name", "Foo"), ("age", 3)]) == Person "Foo" 3
18:17:59 <a6a45081-2b83> obviously this is easy to define for few record fields but what if I have lot of them ...
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18:18:53 <a6a45081-2b83> there are some JSON utilities though: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/persistent-2.13.0.1/docs/Database-Persist.html#g:4
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18:19:05 <a6a45081-2b83> I am not sure how to use them
18:19:09 <geekosaur> that looks like a type error to me
18:19:48 <a6a45081-2b83> sorry, the actual link is https://hackage.haskell.org/package/persistent-2.13.0.1/docs/Database-Persist-Class.html#g:9
18:20:25 <a6a45081-2b83> this one in particular: keyValueEntityFromJSON :: (PersistEntity record, FromJSON record) => Value -> Parser (Entity record)
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18:42:48 <charukiewicz> a6a45081-2b83: that function requires your JSON to objects to have "key" and "value" keys
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18:44:52 <charukiewicz> I think you're better off writing your own toPersonEntity :: HashMap k v -> Maybe Person
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18:47:28 <charukiewicz> very easy to write such a function with do-notation where you pull each field you need to build a person out of the HashMap and the whole thing returns a Nothing if any of your lookups fail (e.g. name <- lookup "name" personMap)
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18:49:07 <a6a45081-2b83> this looks like a valid definition, f = Person <$> (! "name") <*> (! "age")
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18:49:32 <a6a45081-2b83> to avoid the type error that geekosaur pointed out assume that data Person = Person {name :: String, age :: String} deriving (Show, Eq, Ord)
18:50:38 <a6a45081-2b83> I have 70 fields in dict, and I think this gets quite verbose, although in worst case i'm ok with writing this out
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18:51:28 <charukiewicz> I'd be careful about using ! since it will return an error if the key isn't in the map
18:51:44 <charukiewicz> !? is the safe version that will return a maybe
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19:05:26 <a6a45081-2b83> well I found deriveJSON in Data.Aeson.TH that seems helpful
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19:10:29 <charukiewicz> yup, we use that all the time in our projects and hardly ever write decoders/encoders by hand
19:11:04 <charukiewicz> Just define a type that corresponds to what you want your JSON to look like and then run it through deriveJSON to get your ToJSON/FromJSON instances
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19:12:13 <charukiewicz> you can also override the defaultOptions that deriveJSON takes to do things like modify the camel case behavior (so userFirstName becomes user_first_name) or omit a field prefix (userFirstName becomes first_name) when converting from Haskell values to JSON and back again
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19:13:18 <a6a45081-2b83> charukiewicz: they haven't written documentation on what each option does here: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/aeson-1.5.6.0/docs/Data-Aeson-TH.html#t:Options
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19:13:32 <a6a45081-2b83> some I can gues, some I am not sure
19:14:09 <charukiewicz> yeah some examples would be helpful. The most common option we override is fieldLabelModifier
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19:14:52 <charukiewicz> So an example of how to use it would be $(deriveJSON defaultOptions{fieldLabelModifier = camelTo2 '_'} ''Person)
19:15:24 <charukiewicz> This says all camel cased fields in your Haskell record (e.g. firstName) become snake cased (first_name)
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19:16:41 <a6a45081-2b83> nice, what about omitting prefix?
19:17:58 <charukiewicz> usually our prefixes are a consistent length so we just drop by that length. Here's both camel case and drop prefix composed together: $(deriveJSON defaultOptions{fieldLabelModifier = Prelude.drop 6 . camelTo2 '_'} ''Email)
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19:26:39 <a6a45081-2b83> charukiewicz: thanks!
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19:38:45 <gedda> category theory question, isn't the Functor typeclass actually Endofunctor?
19:39:20 <gedda> since fmap remains in the same functor, or am I missing something?
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19:40:57 <boxscape> Yes, generally speaking the category theory analogies only concern themselves with the single category of Haskell types, "Hask"
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19:41:48 <boxscape> though.. I'm not sure the reason you're saying it should be an Endofunctor is the correct reason
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19:42:24 <gedda> boxscape, i suspected my argument was flawed. Just picked up Bartosz book/blogposts
19:42:29 <boxscape> I would say any Haskell functor is an endofunctor because it maps objects in Hask (i.e., types) to other objects in Hask, (i.e., types that have a "Maybe" prefix, for example)
19:43:22 <boxscape> I should note I'm not exactly an expert in category theory
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19:43:56 <boxscape> (also for the second i.e., s/i.e./e.g)
19:43:58 <gedda> so, then for instance kind `* -> *` would be in Hask aswell, as it is a function on types?
19:44:03 <boxscape> yes
19:44:12 <boxscape> or wait
19:44:23 <gedda> such as Maybe
19:44:26 <gedda> ans not Maybe a
19:44:28 <gedda> and*
19:44:31 <boxscape> I actually don't think kinds are in Hask
19:44:33 <mniip> a haskell type constructor F that has a lawful instance Functor F is an endofunctor Hask -> Haske
19:44:40 <mniip> Hask *
19:44:43 <boxscape> but then again... types and kinds are unified
19:44:49 <mniip> its obejct mapping function is X mapsto F X
19:44:49 <boxscape> hmmm
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19:45:04 <mniip> its morphism mapping function maps f : X -> Y into fmap f : F X -> F Y
19:45:15 <boxscape> % undefined :: Maybe (* -> *)
19:45:15 <yahb> boxscape: ; <interactive>:107:1: error:; * No instance for (Show (* -> *)) arising from a use of `print'; (maybe you haven't applied a function to enough arguments?); * In a stmt of an interactive GHCi command: print it
19:45:38 <boxscape> gedda I think you're right, it's in Hask
19:45:51 <mniip> Hask and * are somewhat synonyms
19:46:01 <mniip> however in other contexts Hask and (->) are synonyms
19:46:15 <boxscape> gedda the stereotypical exponential objects are more things like `String -> Int` and such
19:46:20 <mniip> because in a lot of practical haskell code, an (enriched) category is described by its profunctor
19:46:54 <gedda> mniip, thanks for the more proper definition, never saw it as a morhpism between f and fmap f before
19:47:21 <mniip> that's not a correct way to call it
19:47:44 <gedda> yea sorry, between implies iso which is not in this case
19:47:50 <mniip> no
19:48:21 <mniip> saying "f : X -> Y" aka "f is a morphism from X to Y" means that X is an object that is its domain, and Y is an object that is its codomain
19:48:32 <mniip> "f(x) = y" or "f maps x to y" is completely different
19:48:42 <mniip> here x is an element of X (whatever that means)
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19:55:55 <boxscape> A crude illustrations, for morphisms from sets to sets https://i.imgur.com/WO1HeYN.png
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20:08:30 <gedda> cheers!
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20:25:52 <ThinkPad> Hi. I am the ghost of Johnny von Neumann. I know almost nothing about modern programming but I have a question : Why would you need anything other than machine code? köszönöm szépen
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20:38:14 <hpc> machine code? FPGAs should be enough for anyone
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20:44:04 <safinaskar> hi. i'm reading docs for Happy. And I see that Happy can count lines, but not characters!!!
20:44:15 <safinaskar> are Happy really so bad, or this is just old docs?
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20:45:24 <pjb> ThinkPad: what you need is abstractions. You can start from machine code, but when you clim the abstraction layers, you will implement progressively higher level programming languages.
20:46:25 <pjb> ThinkPad: https://www.smart-jokes.org/programmer-evolution.html
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20:46:46 <pjb> ThinkPad: note the "Senior Manager" level of abstraction.
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20:47:25 <pjb> ThinkPad: then ask Siri to say Hello World!
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21:26:36 <cdsmith> > pi == (pi * 10000) / 10000
21:26:38 <lambdabot> True
21:26:47 <cdsmith> How is that true? There should be loss of precision, right?
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21:27:41 <cdsmith> Oh wait... I guess it's mostly just changing the exponent
21:28:22 <HannaM> of course it's true .. only if some crap ilke floating points are involved, it may not, but in a mathematical sense ..
21:28:45 <HannaM> the right side can be reduced to just pi
21:29:05 <cdsmith> Yeah, the loss of floating point precision is exactly what I was looking for.
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21:30:00 <boxscape> > pi == pi * 1e30 / 1e30
21:30:04 <lambdabot> True
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21:31:10 <cdsmith> I think I understand why, though. Multiplication is mostly changing the exponent. I might get lucky and achieve 1 ulp or so of inaccuracy due to rounding, but I need something else to really lose accuracy
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21:33:52 <ThinkPad> pi /= asin(sin(pi)) for example
21:34:15 <ThinkPad> Wait arcsin would just give you 0
21:34:25 <boxscape> > pi /= asin (sin pi)
21:34:27 <lambdabot> True
21:34:39 <ThinkPad> or close to 0
21:35:42 <cdsmith> > pi == pi * 11 / 11
21:35:44 <lambdabot> False
21:35:47 <cdsmith> That works!
21:37:57 <a6a45081-2b83> map ^.. members . _Object this gives me all values which are objects, how can I also get the key. There is a folding concept too but I'm unsure how to use that?
21:38:08 <a6a45081-2b83> *map :: Object
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21:39:36 <cdsmith> > > (pi * 11 / 11 - pi, encodeFloat 1 (snd (decodeFloat pi)))
21:39:38 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: error: <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘>’
21:39:42 <cdsmith> > (pi * 11 / 11 - pi, encodeFloat 1 (snd (decodeFloat pi)))
21:39:44 <lambdabot> (-4.440892098500626e-16,4.440892098500626e-16)
21:39:53 <cdsmith> There we go! 1 ulp of error
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21:47:15 <boxscape> > (pi, pi * 11/11)
21:47:16 <lambdabot> (3.141592653589793,3.1415926535897927)
21:47:43 <boxscape> > (pi :: Double, pi * 11/11)
21:47:45 <lambdabot> (3.141592653589793,3.1415926535897927)
21:47:53 <boxscape> oh wait, Double is the default
21:47:59 <boxscape> > (pi :: Float, pi * 11/11)
21:48:00 <lambdabot> (3.1415927,3.1415926535897927)
21:48:07 <boxscape> > (pi :: Float, pi * 11/11 :: Float)
21:48:09 <lambdabot> (3.1415927,3.141593)
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21:48:36 <boxscape> still works
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21:49:53 <cdsmith> Yeah, but I think that's coincidence.
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21:50:24 <cdsmith> > (1*11/11 :: Double, 1*11/11 :: Float)
21:50:25 <lambdabot> (1.0,1.0)
21:50:37 <cdsmith> Yeah, works for pi,. but not for 1.0
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21:51:08 <cdsmith> But, at least that gives me one example, which is enough for a unit test. :)
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22:04:20 <cdsmith> Oh, found a better example, though.
22:04:25 <cdsmith> > sum (replicate 100 0.01)
22:04:26 <lambdabot> 1.0000000000000007
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22:06:41 <boxscape> > 0.1 + 0.2
22:06:43 <lambdabot> 0.30000000000000004
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22:08:59 <cdsmith> Yeah, but I like (replicate 100 0.01) because it's basically guaranteed to give an incorrect result regardless of details (unless the radix is a multiple of 10...)
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22:35:14 <inkbottle[m]> Are Haskell libraries regular `elf` `.so` files? (I'm trying to get more aware of the building process, so I don't freak out every time something goes wrong. Next link says, when it's compiled, it's `.so` file: https://rufflewind.com/2017-02-25/using-libraries.)
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22:35:50 <mniip> haskell libraries consist of .so objects containing executable code, and .hi files containing haskell interfaces
22:36:14 <inkbottle[m]> tx
22:36:29 <mniip> the latter includes anything to do with types, pragmas, unfoldings for inlinings, etc
22:36:48 <mniip> stuff like how to better optimize a program using this library etc
22:37:43 <mniip> you don't need that information at runtime, hence not part of the .so, but you need that information to compile something against the library using a *haskell* library barrier and not a *C* library barrier
22:37:57 <inkbottle[m]> This latter part is used during the first stages of the compilation: type checking, etc?
22:38:11 <inkbottle[m]> okay
22:38:16 <mniip> it's used throughout
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22:39:50 <mniip> I had some slides for this somewhere
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22:40:23 <mniip> http://tcp.st/dhupy.png
22:40:30 <inkbottle[m]> nice.
22:40:35 <mniip> http://tcp.st/yh_mh.png
22:40:44 <mniip> vastly simplified but generally the idea
22:40:59 <mniip> dependent modules' hi files are loaded somewhere around parse/rename
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22:44:35 <inkbottle[m]> So, usually, when you need a haskell-library to compile some haskell file of yours, you do not need the source code for the lib. The elf-amd64 binaries and `.hi` files, installed at the right location, might be sufficient?
22:45:10 <mniip> yes
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22:45:27 <mniip> the story has a few more steps in it to do with packages though
22:45:48 <mniip> ghc has a package database which lists for every package its modules and where to find the so's, hi's etc
22:45:58 <mniip> when you import a module ghc looks into the package database
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22:46:36 <geekosaur> the package db tells it not only where to find the .so and .hi but also how to link them and any dependencies including external/C dependencies
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22:46:47 <mniip> good point
22:46:56 <mniip> another thing to mention is that ghc has these things called "ways"
22:47:20 <mniip> which are significant alterations of what the compiled code (and possibly the RTS) looks like
22:47:40 <mniip> this includes stuff like threaded-ness, profiling, dynamic linking support
22:48:13 <mniip> enabling/disabling these options will produce vastly different code, hence ghc will use different suffixes for compilation products
22:48:27 <mniip> e.g. .dyn_o, .dyn_hi
22:49:54 <mniip> this is the foe of archlinux's haskell packages
22:50:34 <mniip> because they only include things built in the "dyn" way, hence you cannot link against the libraries you install unless you also compile your program in the "dyn" way
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22:51:12 <mniip> the generally accepted understanding is that using distribution-provided packages for developing haskell programs is a Bad Idea
22:51:38 <inkbottle[m]> That I gathered
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22:54:27 <inkbottle[m]> Cabal is finding the libraries installed on your system (I mean among other things).
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22:59:55 <geekosaur> cabal is maintaining per-project package databases to avoid version conflicts, among other things
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23:08:47 <inkbottle[m]> "Kpathsea is a library to do path searching". I suppose the way Cabal is finding things is unrelated to "kpathsea". I suppose the libraries, which are packaged, can be installed in different places on the system: like system wide (which we said is discouraged), in ~/.local (?), in the project directory itself. And Cabal is looking for them at these places.
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23:12:09 <geekosaur> ghc does that looking. cabal is about managing things so ghc sees only what it should see for a given project, to avoid it grabbing the wrong versions of things
23:12:39 <inkbottle[m]> ok
23:12:47 <geekosaur> because grabbing the wrong versions of things was what it did under cabal v1 which only managed global and per-user packages
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23:14:47 <geekosaur> hence what was miscalled "cabal hell" but was really ghc's fault because rather than track version dependencies it grabbed the first version of something it found, and would do things like diamond dependencies where package A was built against B 1.0, package C was built against B 1.1, then ghc would happily try to link A with C without recomciling
23:14:47 <geekosaur> Bs
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23:18:26 <inkbottle[m]> Was it that "gap" that "stack" was here to fix? (I mean I've always used stack...)
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23:19:27 <inkbottle[m]> Trying to introduce more consistency in which version of the package was used?
23:19:43 <geekosaur> stack was the first to address this problem. cabal v2 then came up with an alternative solution
23:19:59 <inkbottle[m]> got it
23:20:06 <geekosaur> stack's solution being to start from well defined ghc+set of packages
23:20:34 <geekosaur> so everything would have  a consistent baseline to work from
23:20:50 <inkbottle[m]> So maybe easier to use.
23:21:11 <geekosaur> esier in some ways, but nearly impossible if you needed a combination there isn't an lts for
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23:21:36 <inkbottle[m]> Yes, that I understand
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23:22:36 <Uniaika> geekosaur: <3 thanks for signing the letter on Freenode's independence, with dibblego
23:23:01 <geekosaur> np
23:23:12 <dibblego> :)
23:23:53 <Uniaika> (:
23:23:53 <sclv> well, sandboxes were the first solution
23:24:14 <sclv> there was a seperate tool for them cabal-dev or something. then cabal incorporated them. then stack sort of "generalized" them
23:24:41 <geekosaur> stack came before cabal sandboxes, I think?
23:25:08 <dcoutts__> no, cabal sandboxes were first
23:25:12 dcoutts__ is now known as dcoutts
23:25:20 <sclv> and also there was an external tool for sandboxes before cabal incorporated them
23:25:34 <dcoutts> yeah, cabal-dev
23:25:34 <sclv> btw what letter on freenode?
23:25:37 <geekosaur> right, I know the external tool came first
23:26:00 <geekosaur> https://gist.github.com/shadowcat-mst/998cea12794768bdb3da2daeff31baad
23:26:21 <geekosaur> the owner of PIA's trying to stage a takeover
23:27:18 <geekosaur> discussion currently taking place in #haskell-ops
23:27:57 <sclv> ugh ok thanks
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23:51:05 <Axman6> "These are not to be confused with unit types like C's void or Haskell's (), which are types that have a single value (and consequently carry no information)." - from this statement, can it be said that Void carried more information than (), because it implies non-termination?
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23:51:46 <Axman6> carries*
23:53:39 <hpc> Void has one value, bottom
23:53:45 <hpc> () has bottom and ()
23:53:58 <hpc> but usefully distinguishing between bottom and () breaks the rules, depending on how you look at it
23:55:45 <hpc> so maybe you can say that, depends on what you decide to take into account in your reasoning
23:57:00 <Axman6> yeahb I was mostly choosing to ignore bottoms for now
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All times are in UTC on 2021-05-16.