Logs on 2021-05-19 (freenode/#haskell)
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| 00:06:08 | <a6a45081-2b83> | is there a RS monad or using RWS should be enough? |
| 00:07:27 | <c_wraith> | I'm of the opinion that RWS should never be used. the W portion, which you almost never want anyway, has strictness issues. |
| 00:08:05 | <a6a45081-2b83> | c_wraith: what would be a better choice? |
| 00:08:17 | <a6a45081-2b83> | it's true that I don't need W portion |
| 00:08:45 | <a6a45081-2b83> | should I combine the monads myself? |
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| 00:10:24 | <c_wraith> | If you want to maximize performance, yes. If you don't care about that, just nest ReaderT and State |
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| 00:15:51 | <hololeap> | or just use State and pass the r in explicitly to the function |
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| 00:16:14 | <hololeap> | (ReaterT r (State s) a) vs (r -> State s a) |
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| 00:19:01 | <a6a45081-2b83> | I currently have ReaderT r (FooT (BarT m)) a |
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| 00:19:22 | <a6a45081-2b83> | I'm thinking of converting this to StateT (ReaderT r (FooT (BarT m))) a, will this work? |
| 00:20:02 | <a6a45081-2b83> | *StateT s (ReaderT r (FooT (BarT m))) a |
| 00:20:05 | hololeap | . o O ( foot bart ) |
| 00:20:16 | <a6a45081-2b83> | :)) |
| 00:20:47 | <a6a45081-2b83> | hololeap: have you tried template haskell for your problem? |
| 00:21:24 | <hololeap> | no, i think it can be solved using generics. i just didn't want to reinvent the wheel if something was already out there. |
| 00:22:05 | <hololeap> | @unmtl StateT s (ReaderT r m) a |
| 00:22:06 | <lambdabot> | s -> r -> m (a, s) |
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| 00:23:02 | <hololeap> | @unmtl ReaderT r m a |
| 00:23:03 | <lambdabot> | r -> m a |
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| 00:23:36 | <hololeap> | it just depends on what you need |
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| 00:23:54 | <hololeap> | i'm pretty sure shuffling ReaderT up and down on the transformer stack never changes the semantics |
| 00:24:11 | <hololeap> | @unmtl ReaderT r (StateT s m) a |
| 00:24:11 | <lambdabot> | r -> s -> m (a, s) |
| 00:24:54 | <a6a45081-2b83> | My last monad in the chain is IO() so it shouldn't matter the ordering |
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| 00:26:27 | <hololeap> | i don't generally use ReaderT unless i have to pass a value way down deep into my program |
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| 00:29:41 | <a6a45081-2b83> | doing some db operations so require the reader monad |
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| 00:36:26 | <superstar64> | neat, ghc warns that any non bottom definition you provide for `cast :: (Int :~: String) -> Int -> String` is unreachable |
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| 00:40:22 | <superstar64> | unfortunately, this doesn't seem to work `cast :: (Int ~ String) => Int -> String; cast x = x` |
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| 00:45:17 | <superstar64> | oh, scratch my first comment, it only warns when you pattern match on Refl |
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| 00:55:25 | <superstar64> | what is the heterogeneous equality in Data.Type.Equality? what is it useful for? |
| 00:57:06 | <c_wraith> | It's useful when you're working with polykinded stuff and you don't want to have a proof that two types have the same kind, then a second proof that they're the same type |
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| 00:58:09 | <superstar64> | is it representable in system-f ω like normal equality? |
| 00:58:54 | <superstar64> | normal leibniz equality* |
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| 01:19:49 | <a6a45081-2b83> | do I have to use these evalState, runState, etc. in infix nottation inside do blocks? |
| 01:20:33 | <Axman6> | have to? no |
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| 01:21:24 | <superstar64> | oh, i should start doing evalState with infix notation, why didn't i think of that earlier |
| 01:22:00 | <a6a45081-2b83> | I'm learning state monad today and trying to convert existing code but getting lot of type errors :(( |
| 01:22:03 | <a6a45081-2b83> | this is difficult |
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| 01:26:24 | <a6a45081-2b83> | stupid question but do I have to look at the first type inequality or the last while fixing compilation errors? |
| 01:27:21 | <ski> | (`evalState` init) $ do .. |
| 01:27:30 | <superstar64> | a6a45081-2b83, if you haven't already, try adding type annotation to your variable (local variables too) and enabling scoped type variables if you have too as well |
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| 01:37:26 | <superstar64> | is it possible to have an (inefficient) implemention of the `ST` monad without any builtin primitives? |
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| 01:39:09 | <superstar64> | i think you might need to change the type of `STRef`'s methods to be like something `readSTRef :: Threadable s => STRef s a -> ST s a` |
| 01:39:24 | <superstar64> | though i'm worried that might break ST |
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| 01:41:39 | <a6a45081-2b83> | @hoogle "s -> ReaderT r m a -> StateT (ReaderT r m) a" |
| 01:41:40 | <lambdabot> | No results found |
| 01:43:34 | <nshepperd> | there's a pure implementation of ST floating around somewhere |
| 01:44:25 | <Axman6> | missing an s in that StateT |
| 01:44:50 | <nshepperd> | basically consisting of State over a heterogenous map |
| 01:44:50 | <ski> | @hoogle s -> ReaderT r m a -> StateT s (ReaderT r m) a |
| 01:44:51 | <lambdabot> | No results found |
| 01:44:59 | <a6a45081-2b83> | @hoogle "s -> ReaderT r m a -> StateT s (ReaderT r m) a" |
| 01:45:00 | <lambdabot> | No results found |
| 01:45:10 | <a6a45081-2b83> | :t lift |
| 01:45:11 | <ski> | (don't put quotes there) |
| 01:45:12 | <lambdabot> | (MonadTrans t, Monad m) => m a -> t m a |
| 01:45:43 | <a6a45081-2b83> | :t lift :: ReaderT r m a -> StateT s m2 a |
| 01:45:44 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 01:45:44 | <lambdabot> | • Couldn't match type ‘m3’ with ‘ReaderT r1 m1’ |
| 01:45:44 | <lambdabot> | ‘m3’ is a rigid type variable bound by |
| 01:47:11 | <ski> | @type lift :: Monad m => ReaderT r m a -> StateT s (ReaderT r m) a |
| 01:47:12 | <lambdabot> | Monad m => ReaderT r m a -> StateT s (ReaderT r m) a |
| 01:47:27 | <a6a45081-2b83> | :raised_hands: |
| 01:47:29 | <superstar64> | nshepperd, can you point me to it? |
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| 01:47:51 | <a6a45081-2b83> | ski: thanks! |
| 01:48:22 | <hiptobecubic> | I've been out of the loop for awhile. What is new and exciting? |
| 01:48:39 | <superstar64> | hiptobecubic linear types |
| 01:48:49 | <hiptobecubic> | Oh! really? |
| 01:49:11 | <hiptobecubic> | is there a blog post that plebian losers can casually read? |
| 01:49:31 | <hiptobecubic> | I mean a good one. I'm sure there are many blog posts. |
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| 01:50:01 | <Axman6> | haskell-language-server works really well these days |
| 01:50:08 | <superstar64> | it's a bit old, but there's this https://youtu.be/t0mhvd3-60Y |
| 01:51:13 | <Axman6> | the engineering around GHC's releases seems to have improved a lot too, and the Haskell Foundation seems to be doign a good job of focusing the efforts of development in many good ways |
| 01:51:14 | <nshepperd> | superstar64: https://stackoverflow.com/a/33977350 is one impl |
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| 01:51:46 | <nshepperd> | i could have sworn there was a package called pure-st or something but i can't find it |
| 01:52:02 | <superstar64> | oh, you don't even need to change the type signature of the ST methods |
| 01:52:40 | <nshepperd> | right |
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| 01:54:58 | <superstar64> | "unsafeCoerce is cheating! – Benjamin Hodgson♦ Nov 28 '15 at 22:55" |
| 01:58:29 | <Axman6> | I wonder if the gosts of deperted proof ideas could make it a little less hacky |
| 01:58:53 | <Axman6> | ghosts* |
| 01:59:02 | <ski> | @quote It's.cheating |
| 01:59:02 | <lambdabot> | orphi says: I still like the quote I saw somewhere: "Haskell isn't programming. It's cheating! You just write what you want and it DOES it!" |
| 01:59:14 | <ski> | @quote is.like.cheating |
| 01:59:14 | <lambdabot> | pastah says: the maybe monad is like cheating. everything is so awesomelly easy. |
| 01:59:41 | <hiptobecubic> | Glad to see SPJ's still doing everything in comic sans |
| 02:00:24 | <a6a45081-2b83> | what am I doing wrong here?: `foo :: Monad m => ProgressBar s1 -> v -> StateT s m ()`, getting couldn't match `s` with `Maybe Int`; expected = `StateT s m ()`, actual = `StateT (Maybe Int) (ReaderT backend0 m1) ()` |
| 02:01:07 | <a6a45081-2b83> | AFAIK it should accept s = Maybe Int and Monad m => m = ReaderT backend0 m1 ... |
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| 02:03:13 | <ski> | evidently your implementation of `foo' doesn't work for all `s' and all `m's (that are instances of `Monad'), which is what your type signature claims it does |
| 02:03:36 | <a6a45081-2b83> | okay so I have to be strict about the types IOW |
| 02:04:43 | <ski> | heh, yea |
| 02:05:36 | <ski> | "works for all types `s'" is very different from "works for some particular type `s'" |
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| 02:25:37 | <toast52> | hello! I need some help static linking C code using cabal |
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| 02:29:30 | <pavonia> | toast52: Whats the issue? |
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| 02:30:49 | <hiptobecubic> | Are folks actually writing things in linear haskell? |
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| 02:31:18 | <Axman6> | I think Facebook are, they published a paper recently |
| 02:31:32 | <hololeap> | i haven't even touched ghc 9 yet |
| 02:31:54 | <hololeap> | edwardk is |
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| 02:32:28 | <hiptobecubic> | Sure, but he is often writing things that normies do not. |
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| 02:32:53 | <hololeap> | folks = normies -- got it |
| 02:33:16 | <hiptobecubic> | well there are certainly levels of norminess |
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| 02:33:59 | <hiptobecubic> | If you're lurking in here you are at least one or two levels above normie. But some folks are clearly normier than others. |
| 02:34:54 | <hololeap> | i would like to play around with linear types just to get a feel for it, then i might see a place where it would fit well in my code. but it's mostly just a novelty to me |
| 02:37:11 | <hololeap> | aren't linear types essentially how rust handles memory management? |
| 02:37:25 | <hiptobecubic> | Yes |
| 02:37:37 | <toast52> | pavonia: I've written a small function in C compiled to a .o file. I think I understand the `foreign import ccall ...` syntax within the haskell source file. But how do I specify linking in the .o file at compile time within my cabal config? |
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| 03:03:26 | <fivebox> | toast52, you'll put the C file in your c-sources https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.4/cabal-package.html?highlight=c-sources#pkg-field-c-sources |
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| 03:05:35 | <toast52> | do I need to compile the C sources beforehand then? |
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| 03:07:51 | <fivebox> | no |
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| 03:20:34 | <toast52> | Thanks! I'll give it a shot. |
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| 03:21:19 | <toast52> | How do we represent the signature of a C function with no arguments? |
| 03:21:33 | <Axman6> | IO ReturnType |
| 03:21:41 | <toast52> | i.e. something like `long foo()` |
| 03:22:23 | <Axman6> | IO CLong? |
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| 03:24:06 | <toast52> | What if its pure? From the ffi examples I see functions like `foreign import ccall "sin" c_sin :: Double -> Double` need not live in IO |
| 03:24:35 | <Axman6> | that's fine too |
| 03:24:37 | <toast52> | could I just do `foreign import ccall "foo" c_foo :: CLong` ? |
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| 03:24:54 | <Axman6> | will it ever return a different value? |
| 03:24:57 | <fivebox> | A pure C function with no arguments? |
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| 03:25:36 | <toast52> | Yeah it's just performing some computation where the inputs are already known |
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| 03:25:57 | <fivebox> | Then you don't really need C at all, just save the constant in your program? |
| 03:28:01 | <fivebox> | but yes, you can do: int fortytwo() { return 42; } ;; foreign import ccall fortytwo :: CInt |
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| 03:32:15 | <a6a45081-2b83> | how to filter in persistent on clause `update_time >= date('now', '-6 days')` |
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| 03:42:56 | <toast52> | fivebox: Thank you. I got it to work. Turns out I didn't need to create a new foreign-library stanza but could directly add the includes and c-sources clauses to the executable stanza |
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| 05:43:05 | <a6a45081-2b83> | is there a better way to do this lensing => Object (a._Object <> b._Object), i.e. combine results of two lenses |
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| 06:31:11 | <[exa]> | a6a45081-2b83: I guess you can easily write an iso or a prism for that.. is it VL lens or optics? |
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| 07:12:57 | <a6a45081-2b83> | not sure with the terminology, let me check |
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| 07:38:50 | <guest519> | is there a simple http server for test like python's http.server? |
| 07:38:57 | <guest519> | scotty? |
| 07:39:57 | <opqdonut> | warp/wai |
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| 07:40:53 | <opqdonut> | there's a nice minimal example in the docs: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/wai |
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| 07:42:00 | <opqdonut> | warp has some nice functions for writing tests, like testWithApplication |
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| 07:46:27 | <guest519> | opqdonut: ok, I'll try it |
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| 08:03:37 | <guest519> | opqdonut: could cabal use socks5 proxy? |
| 08:03:38 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 08:03:43 | <guest519> | it's too slowly |
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| 08:03:57 | <Axman6> | uh... so edwardk's post on reddit... looks like things ARE happening :\ |
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| 08:06:19 | <guest519> | Axman6: like what? |
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| 08:06:22 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:06:36 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:06:38 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:06:54 | <Axman6> | well ChanServ just got killed |
| 08:07:11 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:07:16 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:07:31 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:07:32 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:07:56 | × | cole-h quits (~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 08:08:06 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:08:10 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 08:08:24 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:08:26 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:08:58 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:09:03 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:09:09 | × | hendursaga quits (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 08:09:17 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:09:20 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:10:13 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:10:15 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:10:34 | → | frozenErebus joins (~frozenEre@94.129.65.28) |
| 08:10:43 | <[exa]> | wow, is a drama happening? |
| 08:10:48 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:10:53 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:11:04 | <PlasmaStar> | yes |
| 08:11:08 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:11:10 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:11:11 | <[exa]> | I read ekmett's post on reddit earlier today but didn't realize it's that urgent |
| 08:11:24 | <PlasmaStar> | link? |
| 08:11:35 | <Axman6> | yeah, #freenode is... interesting at the moment |
| 08:11:43 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:11:47 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:12:01 | <Axman6> | I happened to join the channel about 5 minutes before shit went down |
| 08:12:03 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:12:04 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 08:12:36 | <[exa]> | https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/nfqw0t/thoughts_on_the_state_of_the_freenode_irc_network/ |
| 08:12:38 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:12:40 | <[exa]> | PlasmaStar: ^ |
| 08:12:41 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 08:12:51 | <PlasmaStar> | ty |
| 08:12:59 | × | plutoniix quits (~q@ppp-58-8-181-100.revip2.asianet.co.th) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 08:13:33 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:13:35 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 08:13:48 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:13:52 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:14:43 | × | heatsink quits (~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:14:43 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:14:44 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:14:55 | → | hendursaga joins (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga) |
| 08:15:18 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:15:23 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:15:38 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:15:39 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:16:01 | → | knupfer joins (~Thunderbi@200116b82216c200f69634fffef0b45f.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
| 08:16:13 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:16:18 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:16:33 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:16:34 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 08:17:14 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 08:17:29 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:17:31 | → | plutoniix joins (~q@ppp-58-8-181-100.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 08:17:37 | × | quinn quits (~quinn@c-73-223-224-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.1 - https://znc.in) |
| 08:17:40 | → | bitmagie joins (~Thunderbi@200116b806936800d1b957d84640628b.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
| 08:17:47 | → | acidjnk_new joins (~acidjnk@p200300d0c72b9590b0627b83407696f5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:18:03 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:18:08 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:18:22 | → | quinn joins (~quinn@c-73-223-224-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 08:18:23 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:18:24 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 08:19:02 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 08:19:57 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 08:20:13 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 08:20:49 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 08:21:03 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:21:05 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:21:58 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:21:59 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 08:22:37 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:22:51 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:22:53 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:23:28 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:23:30 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:23:43 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:23:46 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:24:18 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:24:23 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:24:36 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:24:40 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:25:06 | → | dhil joins (~dhil@195.213.192.85) |
| 08:25:22 | <Axman6> | Well, Freenode staffers are resigning in protest en masse - thanks for the heads up edwardk |
| 08:25:31 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:25:35 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:26:08 | × | bitmagie quits (~Thunderbi@200116b806936800d1b957d84640628b.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Quit: bitmagie) |
| 08:26:10 | → | star_cloud joins (~star_clou@ec2-52-11-151-184.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) |
| 08:26:26 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:26:27 | <Taneb> | Axman6: I don't think it's happened *yet* |
| 08:26:30 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:26:44 | <Axman6> | it's literally happening right now in #freenode |
| 08:26:44 | <Taneb> | And may not happen at all. They were preparing to and one of the resignation letter drafts got leaked |
| 08:26:49 | <Taneb> | Oh, is it? Damn |
| 08:27:06 | <maerwald> | let's all panic |
| 08:27:15 | × | tromp quits (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:27:21 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:27:25 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:28:16 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:28:20 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:28:32 | × | quinn quits (~quinn@c-73-223-224-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.1 - https://znc.in) |
| 08:28:54 | → | tromp joins (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) |
| 08:29:11 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:29:15 | <merijn> | Yes! |
| 08:29:15 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:29:19 | <merijn> | Burn down everything! |
| 08:29:23 | × | guest519 quits (~user@49.5.6.87) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 08:29:25 | → | guest519` joins (~user@49.5.6.87) |
| 08:29:25 | <merijn> | Anarchy in the streets! |
| 08:30:06 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:30:10 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:31:01 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:31:05 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:31:13 | <maerwald> | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27205926 |
| 08:32:00 | <maerwald> | "We are founding a new network with the same goals and ambitions: libera.chat." |
| 08:32:36 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:32:39 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 08:32:51 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:32:55 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:33:23 | → | ddellaco_ joins (~ddellacos@86.106.143.35) |
| 08:33:46 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:33:50 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:34:26 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:34:28 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:34:41 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:34:44 | × | tim quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:35:21 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:35:44 | tim | is now known as Guest69008 |
| 08:36:27 | × | [n1x]_ quits (~n1x]_@178.238.11.35) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:37:41 | × | ddellaco_ quits (~ddellacos@86.106.143.35) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 08:38:01 | <[exa]> | anyways, libera.chat wants some kind of password to connect, where do I get it? :D |
| 08:38:56 | <yushyin> | it's not up (yet?) for the public |
| 08:39:17 | <dminuoso> | use `irc.libera.chat` |
| 08:39:34 | <dminuoso> | oh |
| 08:39:37 | <[exa]> | yeah that gives "closing link, bad password" |
| 08:40:11 | × | Guest69008 quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 08:41:42 | → | pricly_yellow joins (~pricly_ye@static.90.189.158.212.sinor.ru) |
| 08:45:36 | × | star_cloud quits (~star_clou@ec2-52-11-151-184.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 08:45:56 | → | mananamenos joins (~mananamen@62.red-88-11-67.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) |
| 08:46:49 | × | plutoniix quits (~q@ppp-58-8-181-100.revip2.asianet.co.th) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 08:47:44 | → | star_cloud joins (~star_clou@ec2-52-11-151-184.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) |
| 08:49:01 | <maerwald> | I'm getting like 3 different ssl fingerprints |
| 08:49:59 | × | yahb quits (xsbot@haskell/bot/yahb) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:51:19 | × | knupfer quits (~Thunderbi@200116b82216c200f69634fffef0b45f.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 08:51:46 | <opqdonut> | there are 4 A records |
| 08:51:49 | <opqdonut> | DNS load balancing |
| 08:52:04 | <opqdonut> | (and 2 AAAA records) |
| 08:52:15 | <dminuoso> | Oh fancy, people know about AAAA! |
| 08:52:20 | → | jess joins (jess@freenode/staff/jess) |
| 08:52:32 | <dminuoso> | That's the second time this year. My hopes for IPv6 adoption are up again |
| 08:52:43 | <opqdonut> | a surprisingly big amount of stuff just automagically happens over ipv6 these days |
| 08:53:00 | <dminuoso> | opqdonut: more than half our edge bandwidth is IPv6 :) |
| 08:53:06 | <dminuoso> | most CDN is served over it |
| 08:53:09 | <opqdonut> | yeah |
| 08:54:16 | × | wei2912 quits (~wei2912@unaffiliated/wei2912) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:54:38 | → | bitmagie joins (~Thunderbi@200116b806936800d1b957d84640628b.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
| 08:54:42 | → | wei2912 joins (~wei2912@unaffiliated/wei2912) |
| 08:54:46 | × | star_cloud quits (~star_clou@ec2-52-11-151-184.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 08:54:53 | × | guest519` quits (~user@49.5.6.87) (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.1)) |
| 08:55:17 | × | Guest64301 quits (~alexander@2a02:587:dc03:1500:b16c:5166:feb8:97d5) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 08:56:55 | × | oxide quits (~lambda@unaffiliated/mclaren) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 08:57:51 | × | alp quits (~alp@163.172.83.213) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.1 - https://znc.in) |
| 08:59:22 | → | plutoniix joins (~q@ppp-58-8-181-100.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
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| 09:00:14 | → | alp joins (~alp@163.172.83.213) |
| 09:01:39 | × | drbean_ quits (~drbean@TC210-63-209-86.static.apol.com.tw) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+cygwin2 - https://znc.in) |
| 09:01:42 | → | star_cloud joins (~star_clou@ec2-52-11-151-184.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) |
| 09:04:16 | → | jusss joins (~user@unaffiliated/jusss) |
| 09:04:42 | <jusss> | how scotty would handle the exception when user cancle the downloading files? |
| 09:04:52 | → | ddellaco_ joins (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) |
| 09:05:53 | → | tim joins (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 09:06:16 | tim | is now known as Guest62149 |
| 09:06:31 | × | alp quits (~alp@163.172.83.213) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.1 - https://znc.in) |
| 09:06:33 | × | Guest62149 quits (~tim@112-141-128-42.sta.dodo.net.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 09:08:13 | × | chris__ quits (~chris@81.96.113.213) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 09:08:19 | → | raehik joins (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) |
| 09:08:44 | → | knupfer joins (~Thunderbi@200116b82216c2000c062797bdd8b7d6.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
| 09:08:53 | → | alp joins (~alp@163.172.83.213) |
| 09:09:19 | × | wei2912 quits (~wei2912@unaffiliated/wei2912) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 09:09:41 | × | ddellaco_ quits (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 09:12:25 | → | berberman joins (~berberman@unaffiliated/berberman) |
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| 09:13:18 | → | jiribenes joins (~jiribenes@rosa.jiribenes.com) |
| 09:15:15 | × | runeks quits (sid21167@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uvksicbwepulegbv) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 09:15:35 | → | chris__ joins (~chris@81.96.113.213) |
| 09:15:46 | × | edwardk quits (sid47016@haskell/developer/edwardk) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 09:15:52 | × | caasih quits (sid13241@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wswfzorparzehwov) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 09:15:56 | × | aizen_s quits (sid462968@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pdobkgbmauvjilnc) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 09:16:03 | × | betawaffle quits (sid2730@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qejwbkohjtyrhqjm) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 09:16:11 | × | jonrh quits (sid5185@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bewsihfspazmregp) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 09:16:13 | × | tapas quits (sid467876@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fctmknlibzephzzk) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 09:16:31 | × | angerman quits (sid209936@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pzvelbtxymwnmpjf) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 09:16:31 | × | darthThorik quits (sid39589@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jowxtmnphsrffvaz) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 09:16:32 | × | koankeeper quits (sid216950@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-utdpmlvofhbekyeu) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
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| 09:17:42 | <sshine> | dminuoso, my beliefs have gone in the other direction: rather than have universal network addresses, I'd rather see more flexible VPN setups. |
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| 09:48:08 | <kaol> | \query lambdabot |
| 09:48:32 | <[exa]> | the other slash. :] |
| 09:48:49 | <[exa]> | jusss: what are you using for sending the files? |
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| 10:00:50 | <ccapndave> | Hey - what is the syntax to use RecordWildCards to get everything out of a record, whilst also assigning the whole record to something. I tried (startParams @ StartParams {..} ) but GHC doesn't like that |
| 10:01:09 | <dminuoso> | StartParams{..} |
| 10:01:15 | <merijn> | That should work |
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| 10:01:23 | <merijn> | dminuoso: I don't think the space matters |
| 10:01:25 | <dminuoso> | The spaces in between are not permissable |
| 10:01:32 | <merijn> | Oh, wait |
| 10:01:33 | <dminuoso> | merijn: I think it does because of TypeApplications |
| 10:01:37 | <ccapndave> | Haha |
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| 10:01:41 | <ccapndave> | That works |
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| 10:01:43 | <ccapndave> | Thanks very much |
| 10:01:46 | <merijn> | That's not a type application? |
| 10:01:52 | <merijn> | That's an alias? |
| 10:02:01 | <ccapndave> | (startParams@StartParams {..}) that works |
| 10:02:02 | <dminuoso> | the space to the left |
| 10:02:03 | <ccapndave> | Its an alias |
| 10:02:08 | <merijn> | ccapndave: oh, yeah |
| 10:02:08 | <ccapndave> | Cheers! |
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| 10:02:16 | <merijn> | ccapndave: You can't have spaces around @ |
| 10:02:18 | <dminuoso> | i.e. `f @s` vs `f@s` |
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| 10:02:20 | <ccapndave> | Got it |
| 10:02:22 | <ccapndave> | Ah of course |
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| 10:02:37 | <ccapndave> | Because it thinks its one of the @String "dave" things |
| 10:02:39 | <merijn> | I move we strike TypeApplications from GHC >.> |
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| 10:03:21 | <merijn> | "but that makes writing extremely hard to infer type polymorphic code more tedious..." 'you say that like it's a bad thing...' |
| 10:03:28 | <dminuoso> | ccapndave: Right, those are called type applications |
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| 10:03:39 | <merijn> | TypeApplications was a mistake is the hill I will die on |
| 10:03:41 | <dminuoso> | merijn: https://github.com/int-index/ghc-proposals/blob/visible-forall/proposals/0000-visible-forall.rst |
| 10:03:47 | <ccapndave> | Its the same as "dave" :: String is it? |
| 10:03:55 | <dminuoso> | ccapndave: No. |
| 10:03:56 | <merijn> | ccapndave: Yes, but no |
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| 10:04:07 | <ccapndave> | :) |
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| 10:04:19 | <dminuoso> | ccapndave: Roughly, a polymorphic type (one that has a type variable in its name), can be thought of being parametrized by a type |
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| 10:04:32 | <dminuoso> | So to use such a type, one has to specify an argument for that type, conceptually |
| 10:04:49 | <dminuoso> | GHC does this automatically, it infers the necessary types, TypeApplications makes this explicit |
| 10:04:59 | <dminuoso> | i.e. if you write |
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| 10:05:20 | <dminuoso> | `id "foo"` GHC will internally interpret this as `id @String "Foo"`, wher e" |
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| 10:05:26 | <dminuoso> | "String" is a sort of argument to id |
| 10:05:34 | <ccapndave> | go it |
| 10:05:35 | <ccapndave> | Got it |
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| 10:06:00 | <ccapndave> | Or maybe not. How is that any different from `id ("foo" :: String)` |
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| 10:06:29 | <ccapndave> | Is is that the `@String` is associated with the function, and the `:: String` is associated with the parameter? |
| 10:06:33 | <dminuoso> | right! |
| 10:06:48 | <dminuoso> | @String is effectively just an argument to the function |
| 10:06:48 | <lambdabot> | Unknown command, try @list |
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| 10:06:54 | <ccapndave> | So I would use this to specialise a function |
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| 10:06:59 | <ccapndave> | stringId = id @String |
| 10:07:05 | <dminuoso> | You could do that, yes. |
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| 10:07:21 | <dminuoso> | Its not the primary purpose, but you seem to have gotten the gist of it. |
| 10:07:56 | <ccapndave> | Yup, I got it |
| 10:07:57 | <ccapndave> | Thanks very much! |
| 10:08:00 | <ccapndave> | Off for lunch now |
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| 10:44:58 | <Philonous> | What's the memory requirement of a (SmallArray# a)? I'm assuming it's something like k words + n*(1 word + sizeof(a) ), but how do I find out for sure? |
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| 10:49:54 | <opqdonut> | Philonous: you probably read https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ghc-prim-0.4.0.0/docs/GHC-Prim.html#g:9 already? |
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| 10:50:53 | <opqdonut> | fresher version, same text: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ghc-prim-0.7.0/docs/GHC-Prim.html#g:13 |
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| 11:29:30 | <Philonous> | opqdonut, I did, it did not answer my question |
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| 11:29:39 | <Philonous> | Maybe it's time to dive into GHC sources |
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| 11:30:56 | <merijn> | Philonous: I think mpickering (or maybe it was someone else) recently created a precise space profiling tool for heap stuff |
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| 11:31:21 | <merijn> | Philonous: Also, why is it important to know for sure? |
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| 11:34:33 | <Philonous> | merijn, I'm working on vinyl's ARec, which uses Array to store extensible records, as opposed to the usual heterogenous list. Part of the patch I'm working is replacing Array with SmallArray#, and I'd like to document the exact implications of using any of the options. |
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| 11:34:56 | <merijn> | Ah...so, Dark Voodoo :p |
| 11:35:05 | <merijn> | Probably better off asking in #ghc |
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| 11:35:53 | <Philonous> | Ah, right, that's a good idea, thanks |
| 11:36:32 | <Philonous> | I'm not sure if it's "dark voodoo" to want to know how much space a data structure uses. ;) |
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| 11:37:19 | <merijn> | Philonous: Anything using GHC.Prim and names with # to do GHC specific things is dark voodoo :p |
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| 11:37:33 | <merijn> | Philonous: Using those to implement extensible records doubly so :p |
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| 11:38:50 | <Philonous> | Fair enough |
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| 12:14:23 | <mniip> | I've resigned from volunteering for freenode for a good reason and I think you should know as well: https://mniip.com/freenode.txt (sorry for the spam (wait that's cliche)) |
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| 12:37:44 | <maerwald> | https://libera.chat/ |
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| 12:39:59 | <boxscape> | % undefined |
| 12:40:11 | <boxscape> | I guess yahb is in the process of moving onto greener pastures |
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| 12:40:57 | <Uniaika> | :) |
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| 12:41:31 | <Philonous> | Maybe some context: Since there seems to be rough waters ahead on freenode and the networks ops have migrated to a new network (https://libera.chat), you might want to create an account and join #haskell there |
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| 13:46:27 | Server | sets mode +CLnt |
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| 13:56:43 | <srid> | Can Libera Chat be bridged to Matrix? (I don't use IRC clients anymore) |
| 13:57:44 | <boxscape> | Is it just me or does the Logs link in the topic not work anymore? |
| 13:57:46 | <boxscape> | want me to log in |
| 13:58:51 | <maerwald> | srid: I don't see why not, but someone has to do it |
| 13:59:37 | <srid> | Also, did the discussion switching from IRC -> Matrix already happen? |
| 13:59:53 | <srid> | Because, in 2021 - I wonder why we would still use IRC instead of migrating to a better protocol. 😀 |
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| 14:00:43 | <maerwald> | matrix channels for haskell already exist |
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| 14:01:38 | <[exa]> | srid: I'd argue we don't have a strictly better protocol |
| 14:03:08 | <davean> | Yah, IRC is sadly still the best for my usage |
| 14:03:11 | <davean> | which is rather sad |
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| 14:07:25 | <maerwald> | it appears you don't like electron apps and gif/emoji overloaded platforms |
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| 14:08:39 | <davean> | I really find message editing confusing |
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| 14:16:45 | <[exa]> | "it doesn't support telnet for connection" |
| 14:16:53 | [exa] | dodges |
| 14:17:08 | <davean> | [exa]: lol, technically telnet would be incorrect for accessing IRC :) |
| 14:17:11 | <davean> | netcat though ... |
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| 14:17:47 | <[exa]> | ah what a protocolar mistake I made |
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| 14:18:02 | <davean> | I mean telnet works. I've never seen anything notice the problem. |
| 14:20:45 | <[exa]> | also, no one ever complaned that telnet breaks for them on irc, right? |
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| 14:36:16 | <timCF> | Hello guys! Unpopular question there. I'm contributing to figlet-style ascii library. Before it was able to parse figlet font files only in runtime (IO) with possible failure. I did added TH support to actually embed Haskell terms representing fonts directly into sources https://github.com/tkachuk-labs/haskii/blob/9c2e89065d82e102f7cbc53e4f338ce470b556af/Haskii/Figlet/TH.hs#L72-L84 It works relatively ok, |
| 14:36:22 | <timCF> | but TH for whatever reason is very slow and eats a lot of RAM. I'm thinking rewriting TH fonts embed to source code generation using ghc-source-gen library. But there is one thing which I actually like in TH - it's how easy to lift runtime terms to source code representation of terms using class Lift which is easily derivable basically for free for the most sum and product types. I'm just thinking, is |
| 14:36:28 | <timCF> | there such easy way to lift runtime representation of FLF fonts to ghc-source-gen AST. I'm looking to something like Lift class in TH. |
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| 14:41:59 | <merijn> | timCF: oof, way to make your life difficult :p |
| 14:42:52 | <timCF> | merijn: you mean TH or ghc-source-gen? :) |
| 14:42:56 | <merijn> | Yes |
| 14:43:01 | <timCF> | Haha |
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| 14:43:32 | <merijn> | Why do you wanna embed the compile time? That'll probably make your compile times hell too |
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| 14:44:41 | <timCF> | merijn: just easier to use library itself this way, don't need IO at all to render text into ascii art |
| 14:44:55 | <timCF> | at the moment IO is needed to load fonts |
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| 14:45:58 | <merijn> | So? You need IO at some point anyway :p |
| 14:47:03 | <merijn> | I mean, at some point you gotta ask yourself "is the pain I am inflicting on myself worth the gain?" :) |
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| 14:49:35 | <timCF> | TH is pretty usable with Lift. But slow. And eats all the RAM for bigger ascii fonts. And I heard about problems with cross-compilation (not sure it's true) |
| 14:49:45 | <merijn> | Yes |
| 14:49:59 | <tapas> | bye #haskell! moving over to irc.libera.chat |
| 14:50:04 | <merijn> | Or rather, there aren't problems plural, just one really, really big one |
| 14:50:19 | ← | tapas parts (sid467876@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wqbatyuvmrgyaano) () |
| 14:50:27 | <merijn> | Like "no one really defined how TH is supposed to work in a cross-compilation context" |
| 14:50:56 | <merijn> | So there's just no sensical interpretation of what TH means when cross compiling |
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| 14:51:26 | <merijn> | Extremely simple example |
| 14:51:34 | <merijn> | > finiteBitSize (1 :: Int) |
| 14:51:35 | <lambdabot> | 64 |
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| 14:51:58 | <maerwald> | merijn: just pick the largest number |
| 14:52:00 | <merijn> | If I have a TH expression using that, should it use the Int size of the *build* machine or the *target*? |
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| 14:52:20 | <timCF> | It depends |
| 14:52:21 | <merijn> | maerwald: That doesn't work, because whatever you pick I can come up with a case that breaks |
| 14:52:26 | <merijn> | timCF: Correct |
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| 14:52:51 | <merijn> | timCF: Ideally you wanna distinguish between target and host when cross compiling, but TH wasn't designed with that in mind |
| 14:53:07 | <merijn> | timCF: So that's not fixable without a pretty significant overhaul/redesign of TH |
| 14:55:02 | <merijn> | timCF: personally I'd probably load/parse fonts on startup once, then cache them |
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| 14:55:35 | <merijn> | timCF: Could even consider using compact regions for faster caching/loading |
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| 14:56:28 | <timCF> | merijn: Actually for some tasks I got another very annoying limitation that TH can not generate `import` and `module` expressions which was critical for one project which was using > 500 protoc generated files, every single of them I needed to import manually to TH module haha |
| 14:57:50 | <timCF> | That's why I started looking into ghc-source-gen. It's prety much ok, and works file. Except now I need to Lift everything manually to code AST |
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| 14:58:53 | <kritzefitz> | merijn, do you see a realistic way how TH could be implemented to work with values from the target? To me it seems like you are stuck with values from the build machine or you have to emulate the architecture of the target machine, at which point I wouldn't even call it cross-compiling anymore. |
| 14:59:42 | <timCF> | It would be very handy to have translator from TH AST to ghc-source-gen AST. Then you can have the best from both worlds - Lift and QQ from TH, and full control on source code and cross-compilation on ghc-source-gen |
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| 15:00:00 | <davean> | kritzefitz: well, we already do it by running it on the target, and whats the difference between optimization and emulation? |
| 15:00:05 | <davean> | both deal with the semantics of the target |
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| 15:01:08 | <madnight> | Will #haskell leave freenode and move to irc.libera.chat? |
| 15:01:31 | <Taneb> | madnight: remains to be seen |
| 15:02:19 | <davean> | people vote with their feet, but people are voting. |
| 15:02:40 | <Taneb> | (I'm in both and intend to be in both for a while) |
| 15:02:50 | <geekosaur> | I think it'll take time, especially with >1000 people |
| 15:03:08 | <timCF> | what's a point? |
| 15:03:26 | <timCF> | I mean what's wrong with freenode? |
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| 15:03:43 | <kritzefitz> | davean, I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Isn't the point that TH is run during compilation on the build machine, where you possibly don't have the means to execute code the same way it would execute on the target machine? |
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| 15:04:37 | <Taneb> | timCF: staff have resigned en masse. New administration is untrustworthy and of unproven competence. |
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| 15:04:56 | <davean> | kritzefitz: why do you think its run on the build machine? But my point was actually that optimization is, in a sense, a running of the code. |
| 15:05:28 | <davean> | kritzefitz: still, https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/commentary/compiler/external-interpreter |
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| 15:07:35 | <edwardk> | timcf: frankly, a lot of why #haskell has run as well as it has is that we have had a couple of the server ircops sitting in the channel watching our backs. i'm not so bullish on the state of a future where that isn't the case because they all resigned en masse and left for libera.chat |
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| 15:08:24 | <edwardk> | issues that used to take a few seconds for someone like glguy or mniip to solve will now require someone to get the attention of a server op with whom we will now no longer have any existing relationship with, and then get them to deal with the botspam or whatever we're facing |
| 15:08:38 | <davean> | kritzefitz: if you don't understand how optimization is running the code under a semantic, I cite supercompilation. |
| 15:08:44 | <kritzefitz> | davean, I didn't know about the external-interpreter. That's why I assumed, that the TH code would run in the same GHC process and thus on the build machine. |
| 15:08:52 | <orion> | Does *someone* within the community control #haskell on libera chat? |
| 15:09:02 | <edwardk> | orion: yes |
| 15:09:02 | <merijn> | orion: I think so? |
| 15:09:10 | <orion> | Okay, very good. |
| 15:09:21 | <edwardk> | its glguy who started the channel there and i'm claiming control of the #haskell namespace as we speak |
| 15:09:22 | <davean> | kritzefitz: What about TH that looked at header files for syscall numbers? |
| 15:09:32 | <merijn> | orion: At least one of the resigning freenode operators was an active member here :) |
| 15:09:37 | <gonz_> | Even if they didn't the official rules state that an organization has control over their associated channels, also prefixed channels. |
| 15:09:39 | <mniip> | two |
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| 15:09:48 | <davean> | kritzefitz: what about header files that tested library options for which was best on the target? |
| 15:09:51 | <davean> | all things you can do in TH |
| 15:10:05 | <gonz_> | So the Haskell foundation could step in and take over #haskell regardless of whoever had taken it. |
| 15:10:06 | <merijn> | kritzefitz: I don't think its a problem, tbh |
| 15:10:07 | <edwardk> | correction: i just did so |
| 15:10:33 | <merijn> | kritzefitz: A cross-compiling GHC from x64 to arm32, for example necessarily has to know about details of the target *anyway* |
| 15:10:57 | <siraben> | who is the owner of #haskell on libera? |
| 15:10:59 | <merijn> | gonz_: Haskell Foundation is not some universal organisation in control of Haskell |
| 15:10:59 | <edwardk> | if someone within the haskell foundation other than me wants to step into this mess i'm happy to hand over control. i just claimed it based on existing precedent and practice |
| 15:11:03 | <edwardk> | siraben: me now |
| 15:11:05 | <davean> | merijn: I mean that was my point about optimization - a compiler inhernently needs to understand its target. |
| 15:11:09 | <arahael> | edwardk: i think i have the ##haskell there as well but happy for the #haskell to take it, i have gone to bed though. |
| 15:11:20 | <merijn> | davean: I was distracted, so I missed your comments :) |
| 15:11:53 | <davean> | merijn: understandable, its a busy IRC channel I didn't mean to complain you didn't but agree! |
| 15:11:59 | <edwardk> | arahael: sure. just forward it to #haskell when you get a chance |
| 15:12:13 | <srid> | btw, here's the Matrix space: https://matrix.to/#/#haskell-space:matrix.org |
| 15:12:30 | ← | jakalx parts (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ("Error from remote client") |
| 15:12:31 | <arahael> | edwardk: sure thing, laters though! |
| 15:12:32 | <merijn> | Annoyingly I will need to figure out how to make irssi connect to both and manage that >.> |
| 15:12:43 | <edwardk> | arahael: np |
| 15:12:54 | <kritzefitz> | merijn, yes, but you don't only have to know what the specifics of that of the target architecture are, you also have to be able to execute code in a way that respects those specifics. e.g. if you're building on a 32bit machine for a 64bit target, you have to emulate 64 bit integers, or else code that assumes that integers have 64 bits, just because `finiteBitsSize` says so, will break. |
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| 15:13:30 | <merijn> | kritzefitz: Right, you need to be able to designate a host/target context |
| 15:13:36 | <merijn> | Which is lacking now |
| 15:13:37 | <davean> | kritzefitz: my point was an optimizer needs to do that *also* |
| 15:14:00 | <davean> | This is not the sort of understanding a compiler can avoid really. |
| 15:14:03 | <davean> | Though TH is a mess |
| 15:14:13 | <davean> | It doesn't get to avoid it, it just gets to fail at it. |
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| 15:14:20 | <merijn> | TH is "Worse is Better" ;) |
| 15:14:34 | <maerwald> | merijn: I hope so (wrt your HF comment) |
| 15:14:42 | <kritzefitz> | davean, yes, but optimizers often don't need to deal with every possible case. Some cases can be left unoptimized (or at least not further optimized). With TH you would have to promise to be able to “optimize” every possible Haskell expression to its final result. |
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| 15:15:01 | <maerwald> | remains to be seen how it operates long-term |
| 15:15:23 | <kritzefitz> | merijn, what do you mean by host/target context? |
| 15:15:48 | <merijn> | maerwald: HF has significant overlap with important community members, so their opinion carries some weight, but I dislike the tendency people of acting like everyone/thing should defer to HF... |
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| 15:16:07 | <davean> | I mean haskell.org is really more the community asset manager anyway |
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| 15:16:21 | <davean> | HF exists to push thinggs forward |
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| 15:16:29 | <maerwald> | There's a danger of adopting a top-down approach to get "things done" |
| 15:16:31 | <merijn> | kritzefitz: as in, for cross-compiling TH to ever make sense you need a way to define whether some TH is intended to be seen as "on the target arch" or "on the host arch" when compiling |
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| 15:16:42 | <merijn> | davean: Agreed |
| 15:16:45 | <davean> | maerwald: Which is a nice reason to have seperation between h.o and HF! |
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| 15:18:10 | <maerwald> | I primarily see HF as a place where the right people are being connected. I know some members see it the same way |
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| 15:18:41 | <davean> | I mean thats a lot of the how |
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| 15:20:10 | <maerwald> | The question is what happens if the board would make a decision that doesn't reflect the community opinion (if that's even possible to figure out) |
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| 15:21:19 | <kritzefitz> | merijn, ok, yes. But under the assumption that code in the target context can be arbitrarily complex (just as TH currently allows) I don't see how you can actually execute that code, without fully emulating the target architecture. davean has made some arguments why it is theoretically possible to do so, but it still seems too complex to me to realistically implement in a compiler. But maybe I'm just lacking imagination there. |
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| 15:22:20 | <davean> | There are some unknowable things - like the result of gettime on the target for example, or calling an unknown syscall |
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| 15:22:40 | <davean> | Many of said tihngs won't be stable on the target machine either |
| 15:23:19 | <davean> | kritzefitz: Haskell mostly allows a small bytecode - what we already use in ghci for example. |
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| 15:23:43 | <davean> | So a lot of the surface area of execution is fairly trivial - this is related to "basic blocks" a core concept in compiler code generation |
| 15:24:02 | <davean> | kritzefitz: you only have to emulate what the compiler knows, not arbitrary things in *general* though there are some holes. |
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| 15:24:54 | <davean> | not all said holes work well definedly/repeatably *ever anywhere* though, this would be undefined behavior. If you're allowed to do said things or not is a design spec |
| 15:25:27 | <davean> | can you call arbitrary syscalls in TH? currently sure, what it means to do so could be called into question, or it could be disalowed |
| 15:25:40 | <davean> | Right now it *is* questionable what it means |
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| 15:27:29 | <kritzefitz> | davean, I see. As long as you restrict certain things in TH you can relatively easily emulate the things you know about. And it's pretty obvious that some of those things already would have to be restricted anyway, since you obviously can't access e.g. the file system of the target machine. |
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| 15:27:44 | <davean> | kritzefitz: oh but currently I do in my TH! |
| 15:27:51 | <davean> | Seriously, I do |
| 15:28:07 | <kritzefitz> | But you don't do cross-compilation, do you? |
| 15:28:17 | <davean> | not often |
| 15:28:21 | <davean> | but I could |
| 15:28:27 | <kritzefitz> | With TH? |
| 15:28:30 | <davean> | sure |
| 15:28:35 | <kritzefitz> | How do you do that? |
| 15:28:37 | <carbolymer> | I'm looking at waitQSem implementation and I'm wondering about this part: |
| 15:28:37 | <carbolymer> | (i,b1,b2) <- takeMVar m |
| 15:28:37 | <carbolymer> | if i == 0 |
| 15:28:37 | <carbolymer> | then do |
| 15:28:37 | <carbolymer> | b <- newEmptyMVar |
| 15:28:38 | <carbolymer> | putMVar m (i, b1, b:b2) |
| 15:28:40 | <carbolymer> | so there's no transaction around that, so it's possible that between take and put, someone else will modify `m`, right? |
| 15:28:44 | <davean> | externel interpriter, IO |
| 15:28:54 | <kritzefitz> | Ah, right. You mentioned that earlier. |
| 15:28:59 | <davean> | kritzefitz: I mean its dumb and quesitonable |
| 15:29:06 | <davean> | And we can *just* access files |
| 15:29:08 | <maerwald> | do we have a syscall sandbox tool like https://github.com/larsuhartmann/sydbox |
| 15:30:04 | <davean> | kritzefitz: I'd *like* cabal files to have a list of what TH might access (though it might be the open world) or something. Or some spec, over "arbitrary IO" |
| 15:30:23 | <davean> | we don't |
| 15:30:26 | <davean> | we have "run IO" |
| 15:30:42 | <kritzefitz> | davean, At least it doesn't cover all use-cases of cross-compilation. For starters it only works if you have access to a suitable target machine, which doesn't have to be the case with traditional cross-compilation. But it's definitely better than nothing. |
| 15:30:43 | <davean> | I think you can come up with reasons this can be bad |
| 15:30:53 | <davean> | kritzefitz: absolutely. |
| 15:31:05 | <davean> | kritzefitz: cross compilation is of course a spectrum. |
| 15:31:15 | <davean> | kritzefitz: for example, what does it mean to cross compile libblass? |
| 15:31:21 | <davean> | er libblas |
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| 15:31:58 | <davean> | Part of libblas' compilation is a benchmark suite that finds the optimal version *for the host* |
| 15:32:11 | <davean> | cross compiling a self-optimizing build? Ok, great, whats that even mean? |
| 15:32:27 | <kritzefitz> | Heh, right. |
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| 15:34:08 | <kritzefitz> | davean: The scope for TH in cabal files sounds like it could be useful in various cases. Yes. |
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| 15:34:34 | <kritzefitz> | davean, I still gotta do some other stuff. Thanks for explaining! |
| 15:34:42 | <Philonous> | carbolymer, I think the idea is that all actions on the QSem will try to take the MVar as the first step. So all other threads that try to work on it at the same time block |
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| 15:35:08 | <davean> | kritzefitz: its an interesting discussion with plenty of nuance! |
| 15:35:12 | <davean> | It was a pleasure |
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| 15:35:33 | <carbolymer> | Philonous: makes sense |
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| 15:36:36 | <Philonous> | carbolymer, Also, QSem doesn't export its constructor, so you can't just write a new function that sneakily fills the MVar while another thread is working on it. |
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| 15:50:36 | <sclv> | ok to make clear people are voting with their feet to move to https://libera.chat/ i'm going to leave this channel. i already deregistered my nick, and i'll probably be on smaller channels for a while here just as things migrate. |
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| 15:50:38 | <sclv> | bye all! |
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| 16:23:03 | <cohn> | I was just about to ask that question... |
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| 16:40:47 | <LinVon> | Hello everyone |
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| 16:41:15 | <LinVon> | Did someone know where i can get great haskell tutuorial? |
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| 16:42:21 | <enikar> | LinVon: there is https://www.seas.upenn.edu/~cis194/fall16/ |
| 16:42:57 | <LinVon> | Thanks! |
| 16:43:29 | <enikar> | or http://learnyouahaskell.com/chapters (but the first is better imho). |
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| 16:43:53 | <LinVon> | Ok, got it |
| 16:43:58 | <enikar> | there are many others, though but i was the first I think of. |
| 16:44:12 | <enikar> | *but it was |
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| 16:45:19 | <LinVon> | Okay, I'll go surf the net looking for additional material. |
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| 16:54:02 | <boxscape> | @where learnhaskell |
| 16:54:03 | <lambdabot> | https://wiki.haskell.org/Learning_Haskell |
| 16:54:14 | <boxscape> | not actually what I wanted but might be an okay link |
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| 16:54:36 | <boxscape> | https://github.com/bitemyapp/learnhaskell |
| 16:54:49 | <boxscape> | oh LinVon isn't here anymore, whoopos |
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| 17:13:17 | <superstar64> | is it possible to use `unsafeCoerce` to violate referential transparency? |
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| 17:19:30 | <lyxia> | unsafeCoerce + runST gives you a kind of unsafePerformIO |
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| 17:19:36 | <lyxia> | I dunno about without runST |
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| 17:22:17 | <dminuoso> | Was there a decision to officially move #haskell to libera yet? |
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| 17:25:31 | <cohn> | dminuoso: I'm on there now |
| 17:25:41 | <dminuoso> | lyxia: also, cant you do `accursedUnutterablePerformIO = unsafeCoerce` straight away? |
| 17:26:16 | <dminuoso> | Or does GHC actually generate a function for IO under the hood? |
| 17:27:36 | <lyxia> | I'm pretty sure it's a function otherwise you could just use `seq` to run IO |
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| 17:28:35 | <wz1000> | dminuoso: its a function State# -> (# a, State# #) |
| 17:28:55 | <dminuoso> | wz1000: yeah, but thats an unlifted unit.. |
| 17:28:58 | <dminuoso> | so.. |
| 17:29:08 | <dminuoso> | what is even the runtime representation of that? |
| 17:29:17 | <dminuoso> | I mean, couldnt we just unsafeCoerce anything to State#? |
| 17:29:21 | <dminuoso> | say |
| 17:29:28 | <wz1000> | nothing, but it is still a function (i.e a bit of executable code), not just a value |
| 17:29:36 | <wz1000> | think of it as a c function(void) |
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| 17:30:09 | <dminuoso> | my function, do you mean a function closure? |
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| 17:30:32 | <wz1000> | yes |
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| 17:30:50 | <dminuoso> | well, how about |
| 17:31:10 | <wz1000> | foo :: IO Int is roughly equivalent to `int foo(void)` in C |
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| 17:31:49 | <dminuoso> | x :: Int; x = unsafeCoerce randomInt (unsafeCoerce () :: State# ) |
| 17:31:49 | <wz1000> | and the actual value *after* you force it is still a closure |
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| 17:31:56 | <dminuoso> | Plus some more type annotations, maybe |
| 17:32:08 | <dminuoso> | maybe add another unsafeCoerce too |
| 17:32:12 | <lyxia> | you have to give up the notion that State# is an unlifted unit |
| 17:32:19 | <dminuoso> | mmm |
| 17:32:22 | <lyxia> | Core just doesn't know what it is so it is forced to thread it around |
| 17:32:29 | <dminuoso> | oh |
| 17:32:32 | <wz1000> | I don't know , unsafeCoerce () :: State# is probably illegal |
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| 17:34:00 | <dminuoso> | Prelude GHC.Prim Unsafe.Coerce> unsafeCoerce () :: State# RealWorld |
| 17:34:02 | <dminuoso> | • Couldn't match a lifted type with an unlifted type |
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| 17:34:04 | <dminuoso> | Ah yes. |
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| 17:35:34 | <wz1000> | try unsafeCoerce# |
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| 17:36:02 | <dminuoso> | Highly, terribly dangerous coercion from one representation type to another. |
| 17:36:07 | <dminuoso> | Yes, lets do that! |
| 17:36:31 | <dminuoso> | f :: Int# -> State# RealWorld; f a = unsafeCoerce# a |
| 17:36:33 | <dminuoso> | This works |
| 17:36:37 | <lyxia> | also the equivalence between (() -> a) and a might make sense in a very handwavy sense but you can get very different runtime behavior because you can call (() -> a) many times to recompute stuff, which might sometimes be preferable to a single long-lived a which holds on to a lot of resources |
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| 17:37:07 | <dminuoso> | sure, I can see the difference there |
| 17:37:27 | <dminuoso> | I was merely wondering, whether we couldnt use unsafeCoerce to pierce the newtype of IO and conjure up a State# RealWorld token |
| 17:37:31 | ← | kaol parts (~kaol@178.62.241.234) () |
| 17:37:42 | <dminuoso> | Because that's all it takes to make an accursedUnutterablePerformIO |
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| 17:37:52 | <lyxia> | that sounds like a sound idea |
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| 17:50:03 | <monochrom> | "lets do that!" "sounds like a sound idea" are very encouraging :) |
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| 17:54:40 | <lyxia> | What could go wrong :) |
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| 17:55:08 | <cdsmith> | enikar: The link you posted earlier, https://www.seas.upenn.edu/~cis194/fall16/, is obsolete and cannot be updated as Joachim has left UPenn. You probably want to recommend https://haskell-via-sokoban.nomeata.de/ instead, which Joachim is keeping up to date. |
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| 17:56:14 | <enikar> | cdsmith: thank you! |
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| 17:58:50 | <edwardk> | as a general announcement, there's been no official move or anything, but we have set up a mirror of the #haskell channel and namespace over on irc.libera.chat I'm moving a bunch of my personal development efforts over there, (#haskell-lens in particular) and a maybe 130-150 folks from this channel have already moved. It might be worth creating an account, registering with nickserv, etc. just in case there is a larger exodus even if |
| 17:58:50 | <edwardk> | you don't plan to move today. |
| 17:59:51 | <edwardk> | i'm personally somewhat nervous about how well this channel will run now that we don't have 2-3 ircops sitting in the channel alongside us when the spambots come, but currently intend to do what i can to help keep the lights on. |
| 18:00:21 | <jrp> | Grateful for some help with migrating to ghc 9.0.1 (typeapplications, I think) https://paste.tomsmeding.com/jPpmbVEp |
| 18:01:03 | <mjrosenb> | oohh, 9.0, is there anything that's actually deserving of a major version bump, or did the minors just get too big? |
| 18:01:12 | <geekosaur> | linear types |
| 18:01:28 | <mjrosenb> | niiiiiice. |
| 18:01:38 | <mjrosenb> | guess I'll have to finally learn how to use those. |
| 18:02:13 | <jrp> | https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/9.0.1/docs/html/users_guide/9.0.1-notes.html (2.1.2.1 is what bites, I think) |
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| 18:03:47 | <altern> | johnw, hi! |
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| 18:04:33 | <altern> | johnw, is there any chance that you developed gitlib? |
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| 18:06:47 | <lyxia> | jrp: fmap f (unAnyContT p) instead of . and $ |
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| 18:07:30 | <jrp> | @lyxia |
| 18:07:30 | <lambdabot> | Unknown command, try @list |
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| 18:07:45 | <jrp> | @lyxia thanks, let me see.... |
| 18:07:45 | <lambdabot> | Unknown command, try @list |
| 18:07:55 | <Heffalump> | edwardk: you reckon Libera is the natural destination? It's unclear to me why people didn't just head to OFTC (which came out of the last Freenode wars...) |
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| 18:08:23 | <geekosaur> | becuase the freenode opers left en masse and set up libera |
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| 18:09:59 | <Rembane> | What happened to Freenode? Is there a write-up of it? |
| 18:10:21 | <mjrosenb> | mniip posted a link earlier. |
| 18:10:37 | <geekosaur> | https://kline.sh/ |
| 18:10:38 | <edwardk> | Heffalump: the fact that we know all the ops and will continue to enjoy the superpower of having folks like mniip and glguy right in the channel with us when the botspam inevitably comes goes a _LONG_ way with me from a personal pain perspective |
| 18:10:40 | <slack1256> | There is also the discussion on the haskell's reddit. |
| 18:10:45 | <styledash> | abandon ship! |
| 18:11:05 | <Heffalump> | edwardk: fair enough, though it's a shame we now have a third network |
| 18:11:18 | <styledash> | tfw freenode gets thanos snapped |
| 18:11:50 | <mjrosenb> | irssi handles multiple servers decently well (that isn't to say there aren't headaches) |
| 18:11:56 | <edwardk> | Heffalump: I always get sad when these things fragment. |
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| 18:13:04 | <edwardk> | The real thing is we just don't have the huge pile of relationships at oftc. if this blew up on a longer timescale rather than literally overnight? i'd probably have spent a lot more time shopping around there for my own dev efforts |
| 18:13:24 | <geekosaur> | yeh :/ |
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| 18:14:29 | <Heffalump> | is there any chance of the two joining up? |
| 18:14:44 | <jrp> | @lyxia fmap f p = AnyContT $ fmap f (unAnyContT p) worked (compiled) compiled fine! Thanks |
| 18:14:44 | <lambdabot> | Unknown command, try @list |
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| 18:15:29 | <edwardk> | i'm moving #haskell-lens to go wherever i can talk to glguy though. he's done a monstrous pile of work on it, and continuing to develop that in a place where he might not feel terribly safe, given rasengan seems to want to try to treat the leaked resignation letter as "slander" and lawyer up? seems like i'd be a shitty friend. |
| 18:15:32 | <jrp> | @lyxia fmap f p = AnyContT $ fmap f (unAnyContT p) worked (compiled) fine, thanks! No I have some more errors... |
| 18:15:33 | <lambdabot> | Unknown command, try @list |
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| 18:16:17 | <jrp> | @lyxia " fmap f p = AnyContT $ fmap f (unAnyContT p)" worked fine. Thanks. Now I have some more errors |
| 18:16:17 | <lambdabot> | Unknown command, try @list |
| 18:16:39 | <lyxia> | jrp: (you don't need to add @ before a nick) what errors |
| 18:17:14 | <edwardk> | Heffalump: i don't actually know what if any bad blood there is between this last round of ircops here at freenode (now libera) and the oftc folks |
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| 18:17:37 | <jrp> | I'll add them to the paste (more of the same) |
| 18:19:00 | <jrp> | added to https://paste.tomsmeding.com/WS04IGSZ |
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| 18:19:25 | <lyxia> | jrp: Well a general approach is if you're using . and $, to not use them and write plain applications with parentheses |
| 18:20:10 | <jrp> | OK. Thanks. I'll see if I can figure it out. |
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| 18:22:14 | <altern> | dminuoso, are you here? would you be able to help with another thing that I encountered while trying to embed gitlib code into a larger program? https://paste.tomsmeding.com/0SJOfuXk |
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| 18:31:40 | <Gurkenglas> | Should there be a bot crossposting messages between this channel and that one? |
| 18:33:08 | <[exa]> | it might be useful but people can as well connect to both channels |
| 18:33:41 | <[exa]> | s/channels/servers/ |
| 18:34:00 | <Gurkenglas> | they might not notice the happenings. |
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| 18:35:33 | <[exa]> | I guess topic will eventually get updated, etc |
| 18:36:01 | <[exa]> | like, the whole thing happened (*looks at the clock*) 7 hours ago? |
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| 18:36:54 | <geekosaur> | it's not yet clear that the whole community will move, so far it's been individual ops and users and no official "we're moving" has been declared as such |
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| 18:37:19 | <geekosaur> | personally I'm in favor of moving but I'm only one op |
| 18:37:38 | <geekosaur> | and not the most active |
| 18:38:10 | <[exa]> | altern: you might need to supply a MonadMask instance for InputT (if that's your typeclass) |
| 18:38:30 | <[exa]> | altern: (or add some lifting work I guess, but I'm not familiar with the whole thing) |
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| 18:39:08 | <[exa]> | geekosaur: given the speed the people are moving compared to the amount of announcement that's been there, I guess we'll eventually all move |
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| 18:39:41 | <altern> | exa: I think I need to apply some transformers to openRepository call |
| 18:39:47 | <[exa]> | there's some open issues (afaik, the missing matrix connection likely blocks a lot of people) |
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| 18:40:01 | <altern> | exa: it does not make sense to implement MonadMask for InputT |
| 18:40:08 | <[exa]> | altern: what's the type of openRepository? |
| 18:40:41 | <altern> | exa: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/gitlib-3.1.3/docs/Git-Types.html#t:RepositoryFactory |
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| 18:42:15 | <altern> | exa: btw, I have MS type declared like this: type MS = ReaderT SearchFunc (StateT ProgramState IO) |
| 18:43:05 | <[exa]> | that's weird, the first argument should be RepositoryOptions so no idea why it's asking for MonadMask |
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| 18:44:43 | <[exa]> | ah noes sorry, misread the whole thing :D |
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| 18:47:41 | <[exa]> | altern: what's the type of the function around? (ie. what's the monad in there?) I guess something later in/around the function requires MonadMask |
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| 18:48:17 | <altern> | exa: parseInput :: String -> InputT MS () |
| 18:49:34 | <[exa]> | hm weird, no idea. Maybe if you could paste a bit of the code around |
| 18:50:04 | <altern> | exa: the codebase is large |
| 18:50:23 | <altern> | exa: I will need to extract a lot into a standalone program |
| 18:50:39 | <[exa]> | worry not about standalone, just the whole function (if it's not just the code in the error tho) |
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| 18:51:32 | <[exa]> | also possibly the type/impl of lgFactory |
| 18:51:45 | <johnw> | altern: hi, yes I did |
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| 18:52:37 | <altern> | johnw, oh wow. great to meet you! I am just using your library for my application and having problems making it work |
| 18:53:02 | <johnw> | what's the trouble you've been having? |
| 18:53:08 | <johnw> | and nice to meet you as well! |
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| 18:53:35 | <altern> | johnw, https://paste.tomsmeding.com/0SJOfuXk I guess it will be the easy one for you! ;) |
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| 18:55:17 | <johnw> | it looks like you're using openRepository in a monad context that doesn't support exception masking, namely InputT MS |
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| 18:57:29 | <altern> | john, how do I make it support exception masking? |
| 18:57:37 | <altern> | or is there another way around it? |
| 18:57:56 | <altern> | for example, I saw you have been using withRepository function in smoke tests |
| 18:59:08 | <altern> | exa: https://pastebin.com/hyYu42Ji |
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| 19:04:02 | <edwardk> | i've passed along the matrix concern to libera.chat |
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| 19:08:27 | <johnw> | altern: You need something more capable than InpuT MS. The tests run on IO, I believe. |
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| 19:11:29 | <altern> | johnw, I am bad with transformers. What would you recommend as a more capable candidate to make it work? |
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| 19:12:58 | <johnw> | I really don't know enough about what yo'ure doing to say; what is MS? |
| 19:13:13 | <altern> | johnw, type MS = ReaderT SearchFunc (StateT ProgramState IO) |
| 19:13:37 | <johnw> | and where does InpuT come from? |
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| 19:13:59 | <johnw> | sounds like you just need a MonadMask instance for InputT |
| 19:14:04 | <johnw> | since the rest of your stack is fine |
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| 19:14:28 | <altern> | parseInput :: String -> InputT MS () |
| 19:14:29 | <altern> | that's the type of the function where the code snippet with openRepository is |
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| 19:14:46 | <johnw> | what module and library does InputT come from? |
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| 19:15:05 | <altern> | import System.Console.Haskeline |
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| 19:15:37 | <[exa]> | altern: for the begin `get`, you might like something like `selRep <- gets selectedRepository`, given you've got the ProgramState fields named |
| 19:15:37 | <johnw> | hmm.. version 0.8.1.2 of haskeline does show that it has a MonadMask instance |
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| 19:16:35 | <altern> | johnw, let me check which one I use.. |
| 19:16:51 | <[exa]> | hm yeah, 0.7.* seems not to have MonadMask |
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| 19:17:24 | <altern> | mine is haskeline-0.7.4.3 |
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| 19:18:35 | <[exa]> | edwardk: btw thanks for the twitter posts today, I probably wouldn't notice whats happening without these |
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| 19:33:17 | <altern> | exa: johnw: I have installed new haskeline, but it is failing to show in ghc-pkg list as the active one. how do I make it current instead of the old one? |
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| 19:34:17 | <geekosaur> | did you use newer cabal and are you outside a project? you'll need to include --lib |
| 19:34:40 | <geekosaur> | if you're in a project, you'll need to update the bounds on the haskeline dep |
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| 19:35:04 | <geekosaur> | (I strongly recommend using a project, btw, it'll prevent later conflicts) |
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| 19:35:49 | <geekosaur> | o rstack which will force its own kind of project on you, with the same requirement that you specify an appropriate dependency or update to a resolver that includes it already |
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| 19:39:33 | <altern> | geekosaur, all done as you said - updated bounds, but new-install says 'up to date' |
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| 19:40:14 | <altern> | geekosaur, now using stack though. it does not find one library I need in the LTS (pretty-tree) |
| 19:40:24 | <geekosaur> | if you created a project then you'll need to add the rest of your code to it. if you didn't then you need to install with --lib |
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| 19:41:06 | <altern> | geekosaur, all my code is in the project already |
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| 19:41:59 | <geekosaur> | then it is up to date because you already installed it once. it should then use it when building your project, instead of the older version |
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| 19:42:20 | <geekosaur> | wrt stack, you would need to use stack.yaml to point to where to get a version of pretty-tree that is compatible with the rest of your project |
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| 19:42:40 | <geekosaur> | but someone else will have to help you with details, as I don't use stack |
| 19:42:53 | <Schrostfutz> | Hi, I'm writing a parser with attoparsec. My parse function currently returns an empty string as the remaining unparsed input. When I append `endOfInput` to my parser, I only get a partial result instead. Am I misunderstanding the behavior of endOfInput or is something wrong here? |
| 19:42:59 | <altern> | geekosaur, ❯ cabal new-install haskeline --lib |
| 19:42:59 | <altern> | Wrote tarball sdist to |
| 19:43:00 | <altern> | /home/[username]/Projects/[projectname]/dist-newstyle/sdist/[projectname]-3.0.0.tar.gz |
| 19:43:00 | <altern> | Wrote tarball sdist to |
| 19:43:00 | <altern> | /home/[username]/Projects/[projectname]/dist-newstyle/sdist/test-[projectname]-3.0.0.tar.gz |
| 19:43:02 | <altern> | Resolving dependencies... |
| 19:43:04 | <altern> | Up to date |
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| 19:43:48 | <geekosaur> | right, because it had already been built once so all it had to do was register it so it'll be visible outside of projects |
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| 19:44:46 | <geekosaur> | if you're using a project then you don''t need --lib and should be able to update the dependency in your own project's cabal file to include the newer haskeline |
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| 19:45:14 | <altern> | geekosaur, I already did that |
| 19:45:17 | <geekosaur> | otherwise it'll keep using the old one, in my experience |
| 19:45:30 | <monochrom> | In face, if you're using a project, then --lib doesn't help you. |
| 19:45:42 | <altern> | I updated it with haskeline == 0.8.*, |
| 19:45:45 | <geekosaur> | so are you still having problems with it finding MonadMask? |
| 19:45:51 | <altern> | yes |
| 19:45:56 | <monochrom> | Then again, "project" admits like 3 conflicting interpretations. |
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| 19:46:19 | <altern> | because ghc-pkg list shows old version of the library even though I installed the new one |
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| 19:47:45 | <monochrom> | How did the old version enter into the system? It would stand in the way. |
| 19:48:16 | <altern> | monochrom, I guess with the old cabal install |
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| 19:51:49 | <altern> | cabal new-buld fails with the message: Perhaps you haven't installed the profiling libraries for package ‘primitive-0.6.4.0’? |
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| 19:53:34 | <edwardk> | [exa]: np. i've been growing steadily more nervous about things over the last week or so |
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| 19:56:03 | <monochrom> | I want to comfort you by telling that a long time ago I survived very deliberate, elaborate spambot attacks on efnet #math. |
| 19:56:20 | <monochrom> | They spammed like crazy, I banned like crazy in kind. |
| 19:56:31 | <[exa]> | judging from what I saw in the letters I guess this has worked out quite well |
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| 19:56:54 | <oats> | damn, it made vice |
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| 19:56:58 | <oats> | https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7ev8y/freenode-open-source-korea-crown-prince-takeover |
| 19:57:07 | <monochrom> | I also got to "negotiate with the terrorist" like crazy for a bit. (Don't worry, their demand was too ridiculous. No deal.) |
| 19:57:09 | <geekosaur> | sorry, local network dropped |
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| 19:57:49 | <monochrom> | So if something similar happens to this channel, I could just do the same. |
| 19:57:53 | <geekosaur> | anyway ghc-pkg list won't show you what cabal sees inside the project, use "cabal exec -- ghc-pkg list" for that |
| 19:58:16 | <geekosaur> | but a global package install from, say, a system package manager might still interfere |
| 19:58:20 | <monochrom> | Now, I want to unsettle you a bit by saying that a long time ago I was jobless. Today I have a job, I won't be around that much. |
| 19:58:29 | <monochrom> | Every silver lining has tarnish. >:) |
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| 20:00:03 | <monochrom> | I have doubts about "cabal exec -- ghc-pkg list". |
| 20:01:10 | <monochrom> | Indeed, it isn't different from vanilla "ghc-pkg list" at all. |
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| 20:01:42 | <monochrom> | I just tried in my recent directory that has a HUnit dependency. Doesn't show up. |
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| 20:02:18 | <geekosaur> | sigh, thought the whole point of cabal exec was it configured things so packages would be visible. so what is it these days? |
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| 20:02:55 | <monochrom> | People dream big and implement procrastination. |
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| 20:03:29 | <monochrom> | I mean, it happened to my thesis too. "When it is finished, it will solve this big big problem..." |
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| 20:03:47 | <monochrom> | It is finished, but it only solves a big problem, not a big big problem. |
| 20:04:23 | <monochrom> | "I didn't have time. Future work." |
| 20:04:33 | <johnw> | altern: I don't know how, that's not how I select packages... |
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| 20:05:40 | <monochrom> | Wait a second, Korea has a crown prince?! I thought Korea is a republic. |
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| 20:05:49 | <monochrom> | Both of them. |
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| 20:08:28 | <oats> | huh, lee was briefly a student at my school |
| 20:08:31 | <oats> | (Purdue) |
| 20:08:35 | <oats> | interdesting |
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| 20:13:21 | <magbo> | Is #haskell switching over to irc.libera.chat? Probably topic-worthy? |
| 20:13:54 | <geekosaur> | gradually. there are complications, like a decent number of people using a matrix bridge that points here |
| 20:13:57 | <[exa]> | kindof. It didn't reach the topic yet :] |
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| 20:14:54 | <[exa]> | (I'm idling there already) |
| 20:15:10 | <magbo> | Very good. If there is something I can do to help, feel free to PM me. |
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| 20:21:49 | <oats> | I'm gonna switch to the libera bridge as soon as I'm able |
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| 20:21:55 | <oats> | holy hell what's with all the quits |
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| 20:27:36 | <[exa]> | magbo: no idea, generally the network there needs some help for newbies etc so just staying around and repeating good advice helps :D |
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| 20:38:43 | <altern> | after upgrading aeson, my project is broken now: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/67610554/overlapping-instances-for-aeson any help is appreciated |
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| 21:25:12 | <jackdk> | I'm set up on libera too |
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| 22:32:14 | blissful | is now known as azizzie |
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| 23:11:50 | <spider1> | what is libera and why are people moving? |
| 23:12:34 | <mniip> | spider1, this is my personal take https://mniip.com/freenode.txt but you can also read the story in the news |
| 23:12:36 | <dmwit> | Libera is an alternate IRC server. People are moving because the person who owns the freenode domain is trying to "fire" all the volunteer staff that have kept freenode running for the past umpteen years. |
| 23:12:46 | <dmwit> | (Except they were never hired in the first place.) |
| 23:13:15 | <spider1> | ty for link and info |
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| 23:13:55 | × | kristijonas_ quits (~kristijon@78-56-32-39.static.zebra.lt) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 23:14:39 | ← | mjlbach parts (atriusmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ljwcyrnbymkdcdda) ("User left") |
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| 23:16:15 | <spider1> | uh |
| 23:16:21 | <spider1> | does he have nickserv passwords |
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| 23:17:14 | <dmwit> | That was my question, too. ^_^ |
| 23:17:32 | <spider1> | ohh so the volunteer staff are the ones building libera |
| 23:17:49 | <spider1> | okay now i'm ready to move |
| 23:18:25 | <spider1> | ty mniip |
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| 23:18:27 | <dmwit> | I think he doesn't. I guess in the most pessimistic world, he replaced all the software on the servers the moment he was able. I think that's... assuming too much programming capacity, though, and I don't even know if he's in control of the servers in the right way for that yet. |
| 23:18:49 | tim | is now known as Guest25961 |
| 23:18:53 | <spider1> | well it said he had access to other nickserv/chanserv data |
| 23:19:03 | <dmwit> | In any case, the software that was on the servers before this all started would not give him anything more than a salted hash of your password. |
| 23:19:16 | <spider1> | oh good |
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| 23:19:58 | <mniip> | spider1, dmwit the email address too |
| 23:20:07 | <mniip> | my letter lists all the things actually |
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| 23:29:17 | <dmwit> | Okay. I don't consider my email address an authentication secret, or even a secret. |
| 23:29:31 | <dmwit> | I think it would probably be wisest for everybody else to also not consider their email address a secret. |
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| 23:38:13 | <a6a45081-2b83> | can someone help explain this type signature? `type Getter s a = forall f. (Contravariant f, Functor f) => (a -> f a) -> s -> f s` |
| 23:38:40 | <Axman6> | a6a45081-2b83: what problems do you have with it? |
| 23:39:47 | <a6a45081-2b83> | Lens s a means that we are focusing from s to a? i.e. s is our object and a is accessor function. I understand this much |
| 23:40:46 | <johnw> | not an accessor function, but the type of the thing "within" s |
| 23:40:57 | <int-e> | s is a substructure of a |
| 23:41:01 | <johnw> | note that a needn't actually *be* in s in the sense of structure |
| 23:41:07 | <a6a45081-2b83> | `(a -> f a) -> s -> f s` from this I guess we have a monadic action `a -> f a` and we are applying to accessed object a? |
| 23:41:11 | <johnw> | a can be a calculated result, as long as getting and putting have meaning |
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| 23:41:21 | <int-e> | (conceptually, s is within a, not vice versa) |
| 23:41:23 | <Axman6> | johnw: other way around |
| 23:41:33 | <Axman6> | a is a substructure of s |
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| 23:41:36 | <dmwit> | a6a45081-2b83: I recommend the tutorial series "Lenses over Tea". |
| 23:41:39 | <johnw> | yes, that's what I meant |
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| 23:41:50 | <int-e> | uh |
| 23:41:50 | <dmwit> | a6a45081-2b83: It has the best intuition-based explanation of the lens types that I have seen in any tutorial. |
| 23:42:01 | <int-e> | sorry, I'm wrong, carry on |
| 23:42:15 | <Axman6> | % :i Const |
| 23:42:18 | <a6a45081-2b83> | so if I have Person {name :: String, age :: Int} then s = Person and a = age, right. And we would have Lens' Person Int? |
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| 23:42:31 | <dibblego> | try writing it and see |
| 23:42:32 | <dmwit> | No, s = Person and a = Int. |
| 23:42:33 | <int-e> | a6a45081-2b83: you'd have a = Int |
| 23:42:41 | <a6a45081-2b83> | cool |
| 23:44:05 | <a6a45081-2b83> | Getter would be Getter Person Int :: (Int -> f Int) -> Person -> f Person. So we could have foo :: Int -> f Int; foo x = cx+1 ? |
| 23:44:12 | <a6a45081-2b83> | * foox = Const (x+1) ? |
| 23:45:15 | <dmwit> | sure |
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