Logs on 2020-12-12 (freenode/#xmonad)
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| 09:26:09 | <hp77> | Hello there! I have one question, Does anyone use xmonad for their personal use? |
| 09:35:33 | <deebo> | as opposed to? |
| 09:36:31 | <hp77> | I read on a blog that it is used by Site reliability engineers |
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| 09:37:05 | <deebo> | but hows that not personal use |
| 09:40:26 | <hp77> | Isn't that professional use, what I meant by personal use is like just for surfing internet, working on your local project, reading a document that way. Because I tried my hands at xmonad and it wasn't a pleasant experience.Also I couldn't find any guide to get me started, I could just create new workspaces or activate terminals in the new |
| 09:40:27 | <hp77> | environment but navigating in firefox was a painful experience, had to exit it. |
| 09:41:18 | <hp77> | pardon my inexperience but I have never had any prior experience with any WMs like xmonad |
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| 10:12:02 | <Solid> | hp77: everyone here is using xmonad for their personal use ;) |
| 10:17:51 | <Solid> | I'm not sure what you mean by "navigating in firefox"; that should just work with firefox' normal navigation, no? |
| 10:18:20 | <Solid> | Begginer guides are indeed kind of scattered all over the place, though there's is a default config explaining the most important functions here https://github.com/xmonad/xmonad/blob/master/src/XMonad/Config.hs |
| 10:18:44 | <Solid> | other than that there are a lot of user configs online; some even have good documentation ;) |
| 10:31:56 | <hp77> | Actually no, It is not that obvious, because eariler I could click on the links inside the window but in xmonad I don't know how to do that, I have an vim extension which allows vim keybindings in firefox but other than that it is not that obvious, with mouse I can just hover the cursor, clicks will not work, I like that there is more reliance on |
| 10:31:56 | <hp77> | keyboard but It is not so great when you don't know your way around, How do you navigate in some application which is open in xmonad, Solid |
| 10:32:33 | <Solid> | hp77: you can use the mouse in xmonad :D |
| 10:40:42 | <hp77> | really? I used it without any config, I guess that is why but even in the cheatsheet for mouse it is just float, resize and raise, it should be because of my defaut config then |
| 10:44:26 | <Solid> | hp77: the cheatsheet just tells you the keybindings *for xmonad*, i.e. you can "Float and move" a window on mod (left alt by default, though many people map it to left super) and mouse1 |
| 10:45:59 | <Solid> | but application controls are completely different; xmonad doesn't grab these keys at all, just sends them through to the application |
| 10:46:10 | <Solid> | so left click in a firefox window will do what left click always does in a firefox window |
| 10:47:08 | <hp77> | '=D I don't I had a different experience, Hardware issues well idk will give it another go then, thanks (y) |
| 10:47:13 | <hp77> | *know |
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| 13:02:12 | <nova> | I have a weird question |
| 13:04:22 | <nova> | In my winder manager, I always map F{1,2,3} to xdotool click {1,2,3} because touchpads, and it's really convenient. But xdotool doesn't work with context menus. Is there a way to inject a real mouse click with xmonad somehow? |
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| 13:14:40 | <geekosaur> | context menus usually do grabs; nothing can be injected by anything |
| 13:15:30 | <geekosaur> | not even with the XTEST extension which would (with security implications) let you inject real instead of virtual events |
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| 13:17:42 | <geekosaur> | hm, XTEST might allow it at that; that'd be one of the security implications. but it can't be turned on only for certain programs, only for the server as a whole |
| 13:18:11 | <nova> | Muuwwaahehehehehhh. MUWWAAHEHEHEHEHEHH. I found a pot of gold. https://shallowsky.com/blog/tags/xmodmap/ |
| 13:21:51 | <nova> | and it's even better than xdotool's click because you can hold mouse down by holding down F1. |
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| 14:17:03 | <geekosaur> | is the person who reported an issue with FadeWindows and picom around? we need more information. https://github.com/xmonad/xmonad-contrib/issues/419 |
| 14:17:41 | <geekosaur> | my initial guess as to the problem is wrong and someone doing a quick test couldn't reproduce it |
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| 14:28:28 | <Solid> | ?tell ybenel r.e. FadeInactive not working: can you try the minimal config in the following issue https://github.com/xmonad/xmonad-contrib/issues/419 and see if this works for you? |
| 14:28:28 | <lambdabot> | Consider it noted. |
| 14:28:43 | <Solid> | oh they are here even |
| 14:37:36 | <dminuoso> | What's the actual mechanism how an application requests a window? Would the application connect to the X server as a client, and then speak ICCCM to the window manager? |
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| 14:39:21 | <geekosaur> | not sure if I understand the question. |
| 14:40:33 | <geekosaur> | an application connects to the X server and does an XCreateWindow call with the parent being the root window. ICCCM comes in with respect to MapRequest or ConfigureRequest events on the window afterward |
| 14:41:42 | <geekosaur> | like most tiling window managers, we ignore ConfigureRequest and do it during MapRequest. this is technically wrong but supported for backward compatibility by X servers |
| 14:44:14 | <Solid> | ah geekosaur I figured it out; the original bug report was for FadeWindows and I just looked at that module and the documentation is just wrong... |
| 14:44:54 | <Solid> | it tells you to do `composeAll [isUnfocused --> transparency 0.2, opaque]`, but `composeAll = mconcat` so it just goes through the list, matches on the wildcard, and turns everything opaqe |
| 14:45:02 | <Solid> | s/opaqe/opaque/ |
| 14:45:57 | <geekosaur> | pretty sure that doc has been overhauled at least once with respect to ordering |
| 14:48:04 | <Solid> | a quick git blame shows no edits in that region ever since the module was introduced |
| 14:48:15 | <Solid> | maybe composeAll was defined differently in the past? |
| 14:48:24 | <Solid> | I haven't been using xmonad long enough to say |
| 14:48:43 | <dminuoso> | geekosaur: Ah I see |
| 14:53:30 | <geekosaur> | Solid, afaik its always been mconcat with the only difference being presence or absence of additional type constraints |
| 14:53:53 | <Solid> | huh, interesting |
| 14:54:29 | <Solid> | I'll submit a doc fix if you don't mind, maybe that was ybenel's only problem |
| 14:54:50 | <geekosaur> | I don't recall at this point whether I ever actually used FadeWindows, I switched to compton and used its mechanisms instead |
| 14:55:12 | <geekosaur> | granting that xcompmgr was so buggy that it would have been hard to tell if it was working right ;) |
| 14:55:34 | <geekosaur> | (also had an emergency keybinding to kill xcompmgr because it kept going into infinite loops) |
| 14:57:01 | <Solid> | that sounds... like an adenturous time :D |
| 14:57:13 | <Solid> | s/aden/adven/ |
| 14:58:45 | <dminuoso> | geekosaur: Do you know of any good resources that would walk me through how everything fits together? Or is it just "read tronche's manuals"? |
| 14:59:25 | <geekosaur> | even tronche's manuals aren't enough. you pretty much have to have the code to a window manager ope for reference |
| 14:59:36 | <geekosaur> | althoguh there are a few references out there now |
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| 15:38:50 | <Liskni_si> | Solid: last time I checked composeAll did the last thing first |
| 15:39:05 | <Liskni_si> | That is, the last endo on windowset |
| 15:39:16 | <Liskni_si> | Ops in X are done top to bottom |
| 15:39:26 | <Liskni_si> | It's quite confusing |
| 15:44:21 | <Solid> | Liskni_si: yes (<>) for Endo is just (.), so mconcat should match bottom to top, as function composition is right-associative |
| 15:44:32 | <Solid> | I probably said it wrong above |
| 15:47:03 | <Solid> | oh but there's more |
| 15:47:14 | <Solid> | we're not even dealing with ManageHooks here, we're dealing with FadeHooks |
| 15:47:32 | <Solid> | which are not written in terms of endomorphisms, but simply ignore the left argument if there's a right one |
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| 16:55:48 | <geekosaur> | there may be a more fundamental bug i FadeHooks since I nwas basically copying code without knowing exactly what I was doing at the time |
| 16:56:09 | <geekosaur> | I didn't intend simply throwing away effects but may not have enough there to do what I did intend |
| 16:58:48 | <Solid> | I think the model still fits; a FadeHook is solely there to specify the opacity of a certain window, so stopping after having found a match seems reasonable enough to me |
| 17:10:45 | <Liskni_si> | that behaviour can be obtained by telling people to use composeOne :-) |
| 17:11:08 | <Liskni_si> | maybe that's unnecessary complication though :-) |
| 17:17:12 | <geekosaur> | combining FadeHooks is complication already, tbh |
| 17:18:03 | <geekosaur> | combining, say, transience and some per-app hook was a case I was trying to support, but didn't like what I came up with (not that it would have worked anyway) |
| 17:25:10 | <Solid> | Liskni_si: composeOne in its current state requires a `Query (Maybe (Endo WindowSet))`, which is a far cry from what a FadeHook actually is |
| 17:29:59 | <Liskni_si> | Solid: oh, right |
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| 22:34:59 | By_JumperX4[m] | sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/iEiAnBSFRFbGYEEYanSLfUlq/message.txt > |
| 22:38:01 | <vrs> | By_JumperX4[m]: try mod+t to unfloat |
| 22:38:16 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | nope |
| 22:38:25 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | doesn't work |
| 22:38:29 | <vrs> | ?? |
| 22:38:33 | <vrs> | what's your config |
| 22:38:34 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | ima check if I remap it maybe |
| 22:39:15 | By_JumperX4[m] | sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/EzwuXjtchSbBwmKGAOhQtDBY/message.txt > |
| 22:39:37 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | fuck just realized that on IRC you may not have markdown so it's maybe fucking huge |
| 22:41:43 | <dminuoso> | By_JumperX4[m]: The matrix bridge automatically moves bulk texts into snippets |
| 22:41:45 | <dminuoso> | 23:39:15 * | By_JumperX4[m] sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/EzwuXjtchSbBwmKGAOhQtDBY/message.txt > |
| 22:41:47 | <vrs> | no it just says "sent a long message" |
| 22:41:54 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | noice |
| 22:42:05 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | I've never saw the other side x) |
| 22:42:11 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | never seen* |
| 22:42:45 | <dminuoso> | It's one of the better features of it, definitely. :) |
| 22:42:52 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | a big part of my config is copied without totally understanding what I'm doing |
| 22:43:38 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | oh and the content of `~/.xmonad/.startup.sh` is: |
| 22:43:49 | By_JumperX4[m] | sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/nIYfsQxPzRnLVeyTdwtDlRZj/message.txt > |
| 22:44:06 | <vrs> | why not just .xinitrc/.xsession? |
| 22:44:15 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | idk why I started putting some && |
| 22:44:28 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | I'm not using startx |
| 22:44:32 | <dminuoso> | By_JumperX4[m]: Curious, would I be right that you don't really know Haskell then? |
| 22:44:52 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | totally |
| 22:44:59 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | I know a bit of FPC and bash |
| 22:44:59 | → | joznia joins (~jo@162-206-187-245.lightspeed.renonv.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:45:03 | <dminuoso> | Then mind my asking, how has your xmonad experience been so far? |
| 22:45:13 | <dminuoso> | Is it manageable to just copy+paste bits you find? |
| 22:45:15 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | not that bad |
| 22:45:41 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | actually I try to understang as much as possible what I copy |
| 22:45:45 | <vrs> | I've done that for years and got by |
| 22:46:01 | <joznia> | hey guys, in dwm, i have a patch where the window in the master always stays where it is and windows open in the stack, but in xmonad, when i open a new window, it opens in the master. how can i get xmonad to behave the same way as dwm |
| 22:46:07 | <vrs> | eventually I had some more complicated stuff I wanted to implement and actually learned enough haskell to achieve it |
| 22:46:23 | <dminuoso> | joznia: Write an appropriate manageHook for it? |
| 22:46:54 | <joznia> | man i need to read up a little on haskell lol |
| 22:47:09 | <Liskni_si> | vrs: took me 10 years to realize that I can move most of my startupHook to .xsession :-) |
| 22:47:32 | <dminuoso> | joznia: Hold on |
| 22:47:37 | <joznia> | i put mine in .xmonad/autostart.sh and have startupHook just execute that |
| 22:47:49 | <vrs> | By_JumperX4[m], my experience with startx-based stuff has so far been, occasionally the env there lacks some critical variables and it can be really annoying to debug. whatever you're using, log your env variables so that you know you're not dealing with the same problem |
| 22:47:54 | <Liskni_si> | (and about the same to realize that having "exec startx" in .bash_profile is better than waiting for lightdm to implement root-less X) |
| 22:48:07 | <vrs> | (re your first problem) |
| 22:48:58 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | > having "exec startx" in .bash_profile |
| 22:48:58 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | I have to type my name and my password before to login, and that's extremely annoying x) |
| 22:49:01 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:22: error: <hint>:1:22: error: parse error on input ‘in’ |
| 22:49:14 | <Liskni_si> | joznia: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/xmonad-contrib-0.16/docs/XMonad-Hooks-InsertPosition.html |
| 22:49:16 | <vrs> | hmm .bash_profile is not necessarily the best place for it, what if you want a regular text login shell |
| 22:49:24 | <joznia> | use another tty |
| 22:49:53 | <Liskni_si> | vrs: there's an "if" that checks tty num |
| 22:49:58 | <joznia> | yeah |
| 22:50:03 | <vrs> | Liskni_si: dirty but works |
| 22:50:20 | <Liskni_si> | in reality it's a bit more complicated than that: https://github.com/liskin/dotfiles/blob/home/.bash_profile |
| 22:50:28 | <Liskni_si> | but I used the if for a while and was quite happy |
| 22:50:42 | <dminuoso> | Liskni_si: ah you beat me to it. |
| 22:51:32 | <vrs> | joznia: I have a similar setup but on only one workspace, where webLayout = sorted [ClassName "Firefox"] golden; golden = Tall 1 (3/100) (6/10) |
| 22:51:39 | <vrs> | it may be a workable alternative to a managehook |
| 22:52:02 | <vrs> | (using http://hackage.haskell.org/package/xmonad-contrib-0.16/docs/XMonad-Layout-SortedLayout.html) |
| 22:52:11 | <joznia> | alright |
| 22:52:14 | <joznia> | ty guys |
| 22:52:27 | <vrs> | but try the hook approach first, it sounds closer to what you want |
| 22:53:13 | <vrs> | By_JumperX4[m]: in the layout you pasted, you haven't rebound mod-t |
| 22:53:13 | × | joznia quits (~jo@162-206-187-245.lightspeed.renonv.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: Lost terminal) |
| 22:53:19 | <vrs> | s/layout/config/ |
| 22:54:05 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | vrs: yea I know |
| 22:54:22 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | but mod+t doesn't untile |
| 22:54:24 | <vrs> | , ("M-" ++ , withFocused $ windows . W.sink) -- flatten floating window to tiled |
| 22:54:28 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | unfloat* |
| 22:54:28 | <vrs> | this looks, uh |
| 22:55:07 | <vrs> | I don't think that even compiles |
| 22:55:39 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | may I remove that ? |
| 22:56:15 | <vrs> | yes |
| 22:56:23 | <vrs> | how did this not give you a compile error before |
| 22:56:44 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | I'm not sure there is no errors actually |
| 22:56:52 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | I start xmonad from my dm |
| 22:57:51 | <vrs> | mod-q should recompile and give you errors if there are any |
| 22:58:20 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | like spawning errors on the screen ? |
| 22:58:23 | <vrs> | yes |
| 22:59:10 | <vrs> | also W.sink is the thing that takes your focused window and unfloats it, so I'm guessing here that that keybinding got broken somehow |
| 23:12:04 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | vrs: `, layoutHook = spacingRaw True (Border 0 2 0 2) True (Border 2 0 2 0) True $ smartBorders ||| Grid` is this correct ? |
| 23:12:55 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | (to set Grid mode by default) |
| 23:13:10 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | because I still get full mode by default and that's horrible |
| 23:13:21 | <vrs> | mod+shift+space? |
| 23:13:59 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | yes but no |
| 23:14:11 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | I'd like it to start like that by default |
| 23:14:16 | <vrs> | also ||| separates layouts you can cycle through with mod+space so maybe try only spacingRaw True (Border 0 2 0 2) True (Border 2 0 2 0) True $ smartBorders $ Grid |
| 23:14:32 | <vrs> | (haven't compiled, can't vouch for it) |
| 23:14:55 | <vrs> | but in general, the thing before the ||| is the default |
| 23:15:23 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | I just found something |
| 23:15:28 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | if I do xmonad --recompile |
| 23:15:30 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | I get errors |
| 23:15:54 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | Ima remove problematic parts |
| 23:17:30 | <vrs> | for reference, this is what my layout looks like https://hastebin.com/ebirorixun.rb |
| 23:19:07 | <vrs> | (but it needs a bunch of keybindings to be useful, do not use verbatim) |
| 23:19:30 | <vrs> | (it's just an example for how to organize the layout part of a config) |
| 23:20:03 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | hmmm |
| 23:20:07 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | I got some big error |
| 23:20:15 | By_JumperX4[m] | sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/NuQDBBmHRSzpzzfqUaKUkmqG/message.txt > |
| 23:20:37 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | so basically it says that the first line under `main - do` is wrong because there is an equals |
| 23:22:04 | <vrs> | comment that out and see what happens |
| 23:22:12 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | and now I understand why I don't get erros when doing `mod+q` |
| 23:22:15 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | xmessage isn't installed |
| 23:23:43 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | uuuh then it tells me that the line after that one is wrong because it starts by a `,` |
| 23:23:56 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | but if I replace the `,` by a `{` I still get errors |
| 23:24:39 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | ima try commenting everything in this |
| 23:25:00 | <vrs> | I think you'll have to learn at least the syntax to be productive here |
| 23:26:54 | <vrs> | in this case, you're dealing with https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell/More_on_datatypes#Named_Fields_(Record_Syntax) |
| 23:28:53 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | oof |
| 23:31:57 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | I understand nothing of this lmao |
| 23:34:32 | <vrs> | { a = b, c = d, ... } is what you need |
| 23:39:14 | × | notis quits (~notis@45.134.22.48) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 23:41:33 | × | growpotk- quits (~growpotki@130-45-30-154.dyn.grandenetworks.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 23:43:13 | <dminuoso> | By_JumperX4[m]: The error message is misleading because we have a complex grammar and a parser not well tuned for good errors. |
| 23:44:00 | <dminuoso> | Sometimes GHC, the haskell compiler used here, will emit incorrect suggestions like "Perhaps ..." - they're just heuristics that can be wrong |
| 23:44:26 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | oh ok |
| 23:45:09 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | and how can I know where the problem is then ? |
| 23:45:19 | <dminuoso> | Show us your source code |
| 23:45:39 | By_JumperX4[m] | sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/QdRVZrUFKMKaNyUhoYUFoUEV/message.txt > |
| 23:46:04 | By_JumperX4[m] | sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/zuXmLlhCIDkrEBQFHpVkwmEJ/message.txt > |
| 23:46:27 | <dminuoso> | By_JumperX4[m]: Id say you accidentally deleted a line there. |
| 23:46:46 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | oh |
| 23:47:02 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | can you repair that ? |
| 23:47:05 | <dminuoso> | Right before the line of `{ manageHook ...` |
| 23:48:06 | <dminuoso> | By_JumperX4[m]: You probably want the main definition to be: `main = xmonad $ def ...` |
| 23:48:40 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | that seems to repair things |
| 23:48:41 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | noice |
| 23:49:02 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | now I'll try to repair other errors |
| 23:51:17 | By_JumperX4[m] | sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/uceiSswHVAOEhhyUSKfrVQaZ/message.txt > |
| 23:51:18 | <By_JumperX4[m]> | yes |
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