Logs on 2021-02-04 (freenode/#xmonad)
| 00:07:05 | × | theDon quits (~td@94.134.91.50) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 00:15:50 | → | theDon joins (~td@muedsl-82-207-239-014.citykom.de) |
| 00:19:20 | × | thc202 quits (~thc202@unaffiliated/thc202) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 00:21:55 | × | notis quits (~notis@185.51.134.229) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 00:47:42 | × | theDon quits (~td@muedsl-82-207-239-014.citykom.de) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 00:49:30 | → | theDon joins (~td@94.134.91.17) |
| 01:45:32 | → | gazler_ joins (~gazler@195.107.2.81.in-addr.arpa) |
| 01:46:41 | × | gazler__ quits (~gazler@2001:8b0:b165:a8d2:d19:fc83:e0fa:4af3) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 02:54:02 | → | materiyolo joins (~materiyol@112.204.170.198) |
| 03:02:03 | × | materiyolo quits (~materiyol@112.204.170.198) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9) |
| 03:12:25 | × | theDon quits (~td@94.134.91.17) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 03:14:02 | → | theDon joins (~td@muedsl-82-207-238-046.citykom.de) |
| 05:50:15 | → | everythingTaken joins (~everythin@gateway/tor-sasl/everythingtaken) |
| 05:54:21 | × | everythingTaken quits (~everythin@gateway/tor-sasl/everythingtaken) (Client Quit) |
| 06:09:38 | → | palo1 joins (~weechat@c-base/crew/palo) |
| 06:12:46 | × | palo quits (~weechat@c-base/crew/palo) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 06:12:46 | palo1 | is now known as palo |
| 06:42:45 | × | incertia quits (~incertia@d4-50-26-103.nap.wideopenwest.com) (Quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in) |
| 06:43:08 | → | incertia joins (~incertia@d4-50-26-103.nap.wideopenwest.com) |
| 06:47:30 | <psibi[m]> | Liskni_si: When I get some time, I'm planning to use cnx: https://github.com/mjkillough/cnx and check how it compares to xmobar. |
| 07:14:38 | → | seschwar joins (~seschwar@unaffiliated/seschwar) |
| 07:39:17 | × | growpotkin quits (~growpotki@130-45-30-154.dyn.grandenetworks.net) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
| 07:39:32 | → | cfricke joins (~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke) |
| 07:50:25 | × | Natch quits (~Natch@c-b471e255.014-297-73746f25.bbcust.telenor.se) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 07:56:01 | → | Natch joins (~natch@c-b471e255.014-297-73746f25.bbcust.telenor.se) |
| 08:29:37 | × | gazler_ quits (~gazler@195.107.2.81.in-addr.arpa) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 08:38:58 | → | gazler joins (~gazler@92.40.184.163.threembb.co.uk) |
| 08:39:34 | → | notis joins (~notis@185.51.134.229) |
| 08:40:18 | × | ericsagn1 quits (~ericsagne@2405:6580:0:5100:1934:160d:83fd:85ea) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0) |
| 08:42:21 | → | ericsagnes joins (~ericsagne@2405:6580:0:5100:6838:f94d:c1b8:154c) |
| 08:46:17 | × | gazler quits (~gazler@92.40.184.163.threembb.co.uk) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 08:59:04 | × | T_X quits (~T_X@unaffiliated/t-x/x-1456208) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 09:25:26 | → | gazler joins (~gazler@2001:8b0:b165:a8d2:d19:fc83:e0fa:4af3) |
| 09:30:45 | × | ml| quits (~ml|@unaffiliated/ml/x-3958674) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 09:44:06 | → | ml| joins (~ml|@unaffiliated/ml/x-3958674) |
| 09:50:36 | → | thc202 joins (~thc202@unaffiliated/thc202) |
| 10:01:08 | × | cfricke quits (~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0) |
| 10:01:20 | → | cfricke joins (~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke) |
| 11:02:05 | <Liskni_si> | Solid: the instances PR adds a dependency that I vaguely remember was missing from one of the LTS versions we intended to support |
| 11:02:20 | <Liskni_si> | so I'd really like to somehow deal with the CI before that |
| 11:02:56 | <Liskni_si> | I'm thinking maybe if I just push something to master then peti won't get an e-mail and won't interfere |
| 11:03:09 | <Liskni_si> | yes, it really is that desperate. |
| 11:03:14 | <Liskni_si> | byorgey: ^ |
| 11:03:38 | <Solid> | ah I see |
| 11:03:40 | <Solid> | fair point |
| 11:05:02 | <Liskni_si> | his last reason for revert was that we weren't testing the generatemanpage thing |
| 11:05:19 | <Liskni_si> | so why does his .github/workflows/haskell-ci.yaml not test it? |
| 11:05:29 | <Liskni_si> | this is just so fucked up. |
| 11:08:56 | → | xaltsc joins (~xaltsc@unaffiliated/xaltsc) |
| 11:38:27 | → | kelnoky joins (~shao@ip1f1285ec.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 11:38:27 | × | kelnoky quits (~shao@ip1f1285ec.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Client Quit) |
| 12:13:09 | × | hexo quits (~hexo@gateway/tor-sasl/hexo) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 12:19:37 | → | hexo joins (~hexo@gateway/tor-sasl/hexo) |
| 13:15:01 | → | geekosaur joins (82650c7c@130.101.12.124) |
| 13:39:05 | × | geekosaur quits (82650c7c@130.101.12.124) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)) |
| 13:40:32 | → | geekosaur joins (82650c7c@130.101.12.124) |
| 13:45:56 | → | gzj joins (~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) |
| 13:47:33 | → | ADG1089__ joins (~aditya@223.236.190.35) |
| 14:04:10 | × | gzj quits (~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 14:04:31 | → | gzj joins (~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) |
| 14:05:11 | × | gzj quits (~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 14:05:34 | → | gzj joins (~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) |
| 14:08:10 | × | gzj quits (~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 14:08:32 | → | gzj joins (~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) |
| 14:09:11 | × | gzj quits (~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 14:09:33 | → | gzj joins (~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) |
| 14:11:07 | × | gzj quits (~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 14:11:30 | → | gzj joins (~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) |
| 14:13:10 | × | gzj quits (~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 14:13:31 | → | gzj joins (~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) |
| 14:15:11 | × | gzj quits (~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 14:15:33 | → | gzj joins (~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) |
| 14:16:10 | × | gzj quits (~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 14:30:25 | → | mc47 joins (~yecinem@89.246.239.190) |
| 14:47:25 | <Solid> | oh great, I wanted to change ezconfig's internals a bit to provide an alternative `mkKeymap', but all of the parsers are exposed |
| 14:47:28 | <Solid> | sigh |
| 14:56:41 | <Liskni_si> | we could use a benevolent dictator who decides where compatibility must be kept and where not, and who's respected :-) |
| 14:57:14 | <Solid> | :) |
| 14:57:15 | <Liskni_si> | on the other hand, many existing users say that xmonad just works for them and they don't really need it to evolve any further |
| 14:57:44 | <Liskni_si> | software maintenance is hard |
| 14:57:45 | <Solid> | yes it'd be sort of a shame to break all of this |
| 14:58:14 | <Solid> | but now for every parsing function f I have to add f' and fWorker for this to work |
| 14:58:23 | <Solid> | I'm not sure it's worth it anymore ._. |
| 14:59:39 | × | geekosaur quits (82650c7c@130.101.12.124) (Quit: Connection closed) |
| 15:00:09 | × | cfricke quits (~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0) |
| 15:00:37 | <Liskni_si> | maybe we're overthinking this; how many users of the exposed parts of ezconfig are there? how many will actually upgrade and be inconvenienced by it? |
| 15:01:28 | <Liskni_si> | in the past when I had a busy day job, I'd either not upgrade xmonad at all, or upgrade and then revert the conflicting bits and just go on with what was more important in my life |
| 15:01:40 | <mc47> | tbh, I think most users just stop updating xmonad once they have a stable config |
| 15:01:51 | <mc47> | maybe check it once in a while to see if something exciting happens |
| 15:02:57 | <Liskni_si> | I actually still do this with xmobar: I could create a PR that adds a switch for features I don't like, but if all the other people do like them, it's just less work for everybody if I carry a revert in my fork |
| 15:03:35 | <Liskni_si> | mc47: maybe, but there are probably also users who just use it from the distro |
| 15:03:43 | <Liskni_si> | we have no idea how many of them, though |
| 15:03:51 | <Liskni_si> | configs may break for these people |
| 15:04:04 | <Solid> | I would imagine most people who are "satisfied with the way things are" will just use their distros package |
| 15:04:22 | <Liskni_si> | which is a good reminder that the sooner we deal with making deprecation warnings visible, the faster we can move in future |
| 15:04:43 | <Solid> | ah yes, that issue still looms behind the horizon |
| 15:04:51 | <mc47> | Liskni_si fair point |
| 15:05:38 | <mc47> | then maybe it doesn't make sense to deprecate things in the next release, and deprecate them after the release |
| 15:05:42 | <Liskni_si> | (although after several Wayland vs X11 related discussions hitting HN front page this week, I'm somewhat sceptical about the future in general.) |
| 15:06:44 | <Liskni_si> | (as in, shouldn't I be spending my time figuring out wayland and what we can do about this, instead of obsessing over whether xmonad core is tested against lts 12) |
| 15:07:23 | <mc47> | I mean, it would be fun making a spinoff of xmonad with wayland :-) (coming from me who still has very little idea on X-programming and the xmonad core :D) |
| 15:07:54 | <Solid> | I don't think it would be very fun, seeing how a wayland compositor has to do so much :D |
| 15:07:55 | <Liskni_si> | I'm seriously afraid of it though |
| 15:08:27 | <mc47> | really? I have no idea what I'm talking about btw hahah |
| 15:08:35 | <Liskni_si> | the super awesome thing about xmonad is that one can hack on it while using it |
| 15:08:50 | <Liskni_si> | kind of like what all the smalltalk people have |
| 15:09:25 | <Liskni_si> | but a wayland compositor can't be restarted without losing the entire session, I think |
| 15:09:39 | <Liskni_si> | and that makes it waaayyy less fun to work on |
| 15:10:05 | <mc47> | that's a bummer |
| 15:10:31 | <Liskni_si> | I mean if we could figure out a way to run the compositor separate from the wm |
| 15:10:39 | <Liskni_si> | then it could be real fun |
| 15:11:17 | <Liskni_si> | someone mentioned in one of the HN discussions that maybe kwin is designed that way |
| 15:13:03 | <Liskni_si> | anyway I think that's a good place to start: figure out a good design where things can be iterated quickly, either using some existing compositor, or hacking some rpc into an existing compositor, or building a minimal compositor with windowmanager rpc or something |
| 15:13:26 | <Liskni_si> | it's extra work though, X had this almost forever :-/ |
| 15:17:01 | <mc47> | this might be a stupid question, but what's wrong with X in the first place? |
| 15:19:16 | <Liskni_si> | there was a talk about it a long time ago |
| 15:19:20 | <Liskni_si> | maybe this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIctzAQOe44 |
| 15:19:58 | <Liskni_si> | I don't remember all the point unfortunately |
| 15:20:49 | <mc47> | awesome, I'll check it out |
| 15:20:50 | <mc47> | thanks! |
| 15:21:26 | <Liskni_si> | people these days talk mainly about security; that we'd love to be able to run somewhat untrusted apps like in android, where if you don't give the app some permission, it can only use actual security exploits to do stuff |
| 15:21:49 | <Liskni_si> | with X11, there is absolutely no hope of ever achieving any kind of isolation |
| 15:22:42 | <Liskni_si> | obviously many people say that running untrusted code on your computer is a bad idea in general, but the world at large doesn't seem very willing to accept this argument |
| 15:23:28 | <Liskni_si> | and then there are some technical reasons around multiple gpus and different pixel densities and so on which Daniel explains and I don't remember any more |
| 15:31:55 | <Liskni_si> | (I really don't know where I am on this. I'd obviously love most software to be free (libre), and I'm willing to go a long way to avoid proprietary crap and even decline jobs where proprietary stuff is needed for day to day operation, yet on the other I'd really like to be able to just play games through Steam without having to worry about what those games might be doing behind the scenes. I have |
| 15:31:56 | <Liskni_si> | this pet theory that we all have an obsession budget, and once that budget is spent, we can't afford to give a fuck about other things any more.) |
| 15:39:27 | <mc47> | As much as I love FLOSS, I'm still not willing to switch over to gaming on Linux |
| 15:39:33 | <mc47> | I guess your theory makes sense |
| 15:42:26 | <Liskni_si> | I'd probably just play on Windows or XBOX too, with no bad feelings, if other life choices (not having TV and not having a single place/town/country to live) didn't make it difficult :-) |
| 15:43:09 | <Liskni_si> | (and I love big uptimes on my laptop :-)) |
| 15:44:17 | <Solid> | hah |
| 15:44:44 | <Solid> | that theory does make sense; I'd probably still dual boot if I played games much anymore |
| 15:45:04 | <Solid> | but since I don't I'm rocking nouveau drivers atm even =) |
| 15:46:21 | <mc47> | I endured dual booting from an external ssd that I attached to my laptop with some velcro, just to be able to play games |
| 15:46:27 | <Solid> | lol |
| 15:46:31 | <Solid> | that sounds amazing |
| 15:46:44 | <mc47> | (I had one around, a tight budget, and not enough space to dual boot on the internal ssd) |
| 15:47:09 | <mc47> | it was :D I loved the weird looks people gave me when they saw my laptop |
| 15:48:43 | <Solid> | oh btw |
| 15:49:09 | Solid | will be MIA for the next one or two months |
| 15:49:28 | <Solid> | I'll probably still answer e-mails, but can't really review (or write) any code |
| 15:51:31 | <Liskni_si> | good to know |
| 16:00:34 | <Liskni_si> | Solid: are you going to be travelling round the world or would you prefer to keep this private? |
| 16:00:43 | <Liskni_si> | (just curious) |
| 16:02:46 | → | growpotkin joins (~growpotki@130-45-30-154.dyn.grandenetworks.net) |
| 16:03:22 | <Solid> | ah, nothing so exciting, no :) |
| 16:03:43 | <Solid> | it's just the usual exam period in my place of the world |
| 16:04:18 | <Solid> | and that usually degenerates to me spending 10 hours a day inside the mathematics building because I have no life |
| 16:04:35 | <Liskni_si> | oh I see :-) |
| 16:04:37 | <Solid> | and after that I just don't have the energy to do computer things |
| 16:05:11 | <Solid> | so I'd rather just play some guitar or run :) |
| 16:05:38 | <mc47> | Solid figured as much, since you recognized the Club Mate logo in my doom emacs :D ... the party is also soon starting with me |
| 16:06:48 | <Solid> | it'll probably be the last "proper" exam period for me |
| 16:06:52 | <Solid> | feels weird :o |
| 16:07:08 | <Solid> | also yes how could I not recognize that logo :> |
| 16:07:36 | <Liskni_si> | it just seemed weird to be able to answer e-mails but not view any code; if I had to spend 10 hours a day on something, I'd probably just redirect all github e-mail to a separate folder to not feel the FOMO :-) |
| 16:08:21 | <Solid> | but then I'd know that mails were being redirected; this would probably lead to much worse FOMO for me :D |
| 16:08:26 | <Solid> | (my brain is weird) |
| 16:09:24 | <Solid> | so the best I can do is to spend a few minutes a day going through mails and possibly telling emacs to remind me to reply to some important ones at the end of the day |
| 16:09:46 | <Solid> | this has worked surprisingly well for me in the last couple of years |
| 16:11:46 | <Liskni_si> | fair enough :-) |
| 16:40:17 | × | ixian quits (~mgold@2002:4a74:ba78:1701:0:ff:fe78:6269) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 16:41:06 | → | ixian joins (~mgold@terra.bitplane.org) |
| 17:01:08 | × | hexo quits (~hexo@gateway/tor-sasl/hexo) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 17:02:16 | → | hexo joins (~hexo@gateway/tor-sasl/hexo) |
| 17:16:21 | × | ADG1089__ quits (~aditya@223.236.190.35) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 18:08:10 | × | notis quits (~notis@185.51.134.229) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0) |
| 18:10:42 | → | notis joins (~notis@185.51.134.229) |
| 18:51:55 | × | incertia quits (~incertia@d4-50-26-103.nap.wideopenwest.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 18:52:33 | → | incertia joins (~incertia@d4-50-26-103.nap.wideopenwest.com) |
| 18:56:19 | → | geekosaur joins (82650c7c@130.101.12.124) |
| 19:22:44 | × | thc202 quits (~thc202@unaffiliated/thc202) (Quit: thc202) |
| 19:30:22 | × | geekosaur quits (82650c7c@130.101.12.124) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 19:48:45 | → | geekosaur joins (82650c7c@130.101.12.124) |
| 21:04:11 | × | ixian quits (~mgold@terra.bitplane.org) (Quit: leaving) |
| 21:10:12 | → | ixian joins (~mgold@terra.bitplane.org) |
| 21:15:08 | × | geekosaur quits (82650c7c@130.101.12.124) (Quit: Connection closed) |
| 22:02:49 | → | ADG1089__ joins (~aditya@122.163.194.122) |
| 22:11:52 | × | endiruna quits (~endiendir@46.101.187.207) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 22:14:32 | → | endiruna joins (~endiendir@46.101.187.207) |
| 22:28:07 | × | ADG1089__ quits (~aditya@122.163.194.122) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 22:38:47 | × | haasn quits (~nand@mpv/developer/haasn) (Quit: ZNC 1.7.5+deb4 - https://znc.in) |
| 22:40:01 | → | haasn joins (~nand@mpv/developer/haasn) |
| 22:53:18 | × | notis quits (~notis@185.51.134.229) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0) |
| 22:53:43 | × | mc47 quits (~yecinem@89.246.239.190) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 22:54:33 | → | notis joins (~notis@185.51.134.229) |
| 23:22:51 | × | seschwar quits (~seschwar@unaffiliated/seschwar) (Quit: :wq) |
| 23:58:09 | × | davemq quits (~davemq@99-179-0-50.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
All times are in UTC on 2021-02-04.