Logs on 2021-02-11 (freenode/#xmonad)
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| 17:08:51 | <geekosaur> | mm, did anyone get a notification about the xmonad-testing PR I opened yesterday? |
| 17:12:16 | <Liskni_si> | geekosaur: I did, but I know absolutely nothing about cabal so I don't feel qualified to comment on it |
| 17:13:08 | <Liskni_si> | s/cabal/cabal-install/ |
| 17:15:43 | <geekosaur> | ok |
| 17:16:34 | <geekosaur> | I think it's still doing more than one could hope, kinda hard to tell on a system with an SSD :) but the notice in the README should cover that and it'd apply to stack as well |
| 17:17:04 | <geekosaur> | (basically, the quick recompile check xmonad does is suppressed with a build script because xmonad has no idea what or where the build script is doing things) |
| 17:18:05 | <geekosaur> | it's a few seconds before xmonad starts up, but at least it's not showing an actual recompile going on, so I think it's just building and comparing build plans to what already exists |
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| 17:18:25 | <nerdthatnoonelik> | hello everyone |
| 17:18:35 | <nerdthatnoonelik> | I have an issue with xmobar not launching with xmonad |
| 17:19:06 | <nerdthatnoonelik> | xmobar was launching with xmonad just fine but ever since i used a different config its not launching anymore |
| 17:19:15 | <nerdthatnoonelik> | i have to manually launch it from the terminal by running xmobar |
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| 17:20:57 | <geekosaur> | are you running xmonad from git by any chance? |
| 17:21:05 | <geekosaur> | otherwise, pastebin your config |
| 17:21:11 | <geekosaur> | @where paste |
| 17:21:11 | <lambdabot> | Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at eg https://paste.tomsmeding.com |
| 17:24:04 | <nerdthatnoonelik> | wdym from git? |
| 17:24:05 | <nerdthatnoonelik> | and ok i will paste my config in a pastebin |
| 17:24:48 | <geekosaur> | we've been overhauling the status bar support as part of preparing for a new release. if that didn't mean anything to you, it's reasonably certain you aren't :) |
| 17:25:57 | <nerdthatnoonelik> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com/EVO15aDf heres my xmobar config |
| 17:27:44 | <geekosaur> | hm. are all the fonts installed, and is your xmobar built with XFT support (should show in "xmobar --help" output) |
| 17:28:39 | <nerdthatnoonelik> | xmobar --help doesn't say anything about xft support and yes all the fonts are installed |
| 17:29:59 | <Liskni_si> | might be a good idea to check the log file for any errors xmobar might have printed |
| 17:30:09 | <Liskni_si> | not that I know which log file in particular |
| 17:30:42 | <nerdthatnoonelik> | my ~/.xmonad/xmonad.errors file doesn't have anything in it except for a deprecation warning |
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| 17:31:16 | <geekosaur> | that won't be the right file. normally it's either ~/.xsession-errors or something under journalctl |
| 17:33:05 | <geekosaur> | this is somewhat hard for me to debug as I don't run xmobar and have nowhere to put it on this machine (bars along the edges already, but I run mate-panel since I use mate integration with xmonad) |
| 17:35:50 | <nerdthatnoonelik> | ok my xsession-errors has the following errors related to xmobar "xmobar: eof at an early stage" |
| 17:43:30 | <Solid> | so what was the working config/ |
| 17:43:51 | <Solid> | (the one that worked) |
| 17:43:54 | <Solid> | nerdthatnoonelik |
| 17:45:02 | <nerdthatnoonelik> | hang on i'll put in a pastebin |
| 17:45:35 | <nerdthatnoonelik> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com/K80zv7Bl |
| 17:46:21 | <geekosaur> | hm, wasn't that error noted as a bug recently? (sadly I don't see a way to search in our logs) |
| 17:47:13 | <Solid> | that error was just some left-over from debugging an issue that has since been removed from xmobar |
| 17:47:50 | <Solid> | nerdthatnoonelik: I can see that you're referring to two different home directories in the new config; is that correct? |
| 17:48:31 | <nerdthatnoonelik> | i changed that |
| 17:48:39 | <nerdthatnoonelik> | but xmobar still won |
| 17:48:45 | <nerdthatnoonelik> | *won't start |
| 17:53:52 | <nerdthatnoonelik> | but i can still start it by running xmobar in the shell |
| 17:55:23 | <Solid> | how are you starting it from within your xmonad config? |
| 17:57:09 | <nerdthatnoonelik> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com/ocDyU12n |
| 17:59:07 | <Liskni_si> | you're not writing anything into that xmproc pipe |
| 17:59:19 | <nerdthatnoonelik> | well that worked for my last xmobar config |
| 17:59:20 | <Liskni_si> | so the garbage collector closes it and xmobar terminates immediately |
| 17:59:25 | <nerdthatnoonelik> | oh |
| 17:59:37 | <Liskni_si> | this config couldn't have worked, ever |
| 18:00:44 | <geekosaur> | not exactly true, whether gc runs in a timely fashion or not depends on ghc / rts version |
| 18:01:05 | <nerdthatnoonelik> | but it did, my last xmobar config worked fine with it, i watched this video about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3noK4GTmyMw and he did the same |
| 18:01:29 | <Solid> | your last xmobar config didn't read from the pipe in any way |
| 18:01:39 | <Solid> | so it didn't matter that you ignored the input |
| 18:01:55 | <nerdthatnoonelik> | oh |
| 18:04:08 | <nerdthatnoonelik> | so how do i get xmobar to not terminate immediately |
| 18:05:04 | <Solid> | you are presumably using `xmproc' in your `default' function? |
| 18:05:59 | <Solid> | so add it as an argument; `defaults xmproc = ...` and call with `xmonad $ docks $ defaults xmproc' |
| 18:10:48 | Solid | now knows why people have this exact problem so often |
| 18:11:12 | <Solid> | this distrotube guy didn't test the configs he showed people in his video :/ |
| 18:12:42 | <geekosaur> | everyone does this. they think that just using the pipe magically makes xmonad restart the dock when it's restarted / mod-q |
| 18:13:23 | <geekosaur> | nobody knows or cares how unix pipes work, or FD_CLOEXEC, or when gc happens |
| 18:14:43 | <Solid> | it's not even about that; it's about starting the pipe but then not feeding it to ppOutput at all |
| 18:15:46 | <geekosaur> | yes |
| 18:15:54 | <geekosaur> | I'm telling you why people cargo-cult it |
| 18:16:08 | <Solid> | oh |
| 18:16:27 | <geekosaur> | there is a mis-belief that, just because it's a pipe, xmonad will go hunt down and kill the process on restart |
| 18:16:57 | <geekosaur> | this is part of why the recent DynamicLog changes, so it *will* go hunt things down for users who cargo-cult it |
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| 19:00:04 | <nerdthatnoonelik> | So I'm still confused on what im supposed to add to fix xmobar stop closing |
| 19:00:37 | <nerdthatnoonelik> | because I don't know enough about haskell to know what you were talking about |
| 19:01:28 | <mc47> | do you want to feed xmobar data from xmonad or not? |
| 19:02:18 | <geekosaur> | your xmobar config has an unsafeStdinReader in it, which implies your xmonad config should be sending it output including xmobar escapes |
| 19:02:49 | <nerdthatnoonelik> | ah |
| 19:03:08 | <nerdthatnoonelik> | ok i just removed it and it worked, thanks for all the help guys! |
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| 19:03:17 | <Solid> | lol |
| 19:03:20 | <mc47> | hahaha |
| 19:03:59 | <mc47> | "The fastest hand in the West" |
| 19:04:33 | <Solid> | I guess that's the bad thing about a person who doesn't know haskell making that many xmonad videos :> |
| 19:04:53 | <geekosaur> | well, this is someone not knowing POSIX tbh |
| 19:05:00 | <geekosaur> | not specific to Haskell |
| 19:07:28 | <Solid> | good point |
| 19:07:46 | <Liskni_si> | all the knowledge of POSIX has been given away already, there isn't any left, so expecting young people to get some is unreasonable. |
| 19:08:24 | <Solid> | he also copies the default configuration verbatim and modifies that instead of starting from an empty file |
| 19:08:26 | <Solid> | sigh |
| 19:12:03 | <mc47> | to be fair, there aren't a lot of xmonad guides out there |
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| 19:16:02 | <Solid> | that is true |
| 19:17:16 | <Solid> | there already is a good tutorial out there, it just needs to be updated and put directly onto the repo |
| 19:17:30 | Solid | should continue doing that at some point... |
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| 19:18:36 | <mc47> | which tutorial are you referring to, btw? |
| 19:19:32 | <Solid> | https://wiki.haskell.org/Xmonad/Config_archive/John_Goerzen's_Configuration |
| 19:19:34 | <Solid> | that one |
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| 19:19:44 | <Solid> | it says it's their configuration, but it's really a tutorial |
| 19:19:51 | <Solid> | maybe that's why it's so hard to find :) |
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| 19:25:38 | <mc47> | It's pretty good |
| 19:26:35 | <mc47> | eum so I'm writing the docs for the potential "XMonad.Hooks.StatusBar".. Should the module be "aware" that DynamicLog exists? |
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| 19:27:14 | <Solid> | more than that, I think we should officially deprecate DynamicLog |
| 19:27:20 | <Solid> | but I'm a bit extreme in that regard :> |
| 19:27:42 | <mc47> | I mean, should I restate the explanation again on why property logging should be used instead of pipes, or simply refer to DynamicLog? |
| 19:27:48 | <Liskni_si> | I thought those xmobarPPs and strips and so on would stay in DynamicLog |
| 19:28:09 | <Liskni_si> | (brb, dinner) |
| 19:28:10 | <Solid> | oh would they? I thought they'd be moved in that new .PP module |
| 19:28:20 | <mc47> | I moved them to the new .PP module and re-exported |
| 19:28:51 | <mc47> | DynamicLog only has xmobar, statusBar and dzen/dzenWithFlags now |
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| 19:30:11 | <Solid> | ah well, probably can't deprecate that then |
| 19:30:35 | <Solid> | either way, I don't think we need to duplicate documentation |
| 19:30:41 | <Solid> | you can just link to DynamicLog |
| 19:34:06 | <Solid> | I was gonna say we probably also need to rewrite https://wiki.haskell.org/Xmonad/xmonad_development_tutorial but it still looks pretty good |
| 19:34:13 | <Solid> | may just need to copy that over to some place else |
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| 19:57:20 | <Liskni_si> | oh, that's probably why I wanted the cyclic dependency thing |
| 19:57:43 | <Liskni_si> | because the amount of stuff that DynamicLog needs from StatusBar is way less than the other way around |
| 19:58:09 | <Liskni_si> | now we're essentially renaming DynamicLog aren't we? |
| 20:00:31 | <Solid> | pretty much |
| 20:09:32 | <Liskni_si> | that wasn't really what I thought we'd end up with, but that doesn't mean it's bad; my brain isn't able to foresee all that right now |
| 20:11:58 | <Liskni_si> | what I thought would be good was to somehow separate producing the log string from launching the bars and the rest of the plumbing |
| 20:12:59 | <geekosaur> | that ideally would go with the PP stuff |
| 20:13:28 | <geekosaur> | the problem being the PP contains the plumbing |
| 20:13:45 | <Liskni_si> | but the separation isn't as clear as I'd like it to be, as the log syntax is specific to the bar program, so if we want to provide simple wrappers, those need to import the xmobarPP/dzenPP and its deps |
| 20:14:10 | <geekosaur> | hm, this may mean there's no way to achieve backward compatibility while also avoiding circular references :( |
| 20:14:59 | <Liskni_si> | well there's always a way, we can always create one module per strongly connected component of functions |
| 20:15:12 | <Liskni_si> | but there may be no _nice_ way |
| 20:17:20 | <Liskni_si> | we could maybe have 4 modules: PP stuff; generic plumbing stuff without specific wrappers; specific wrappers that tie it together; and then DynamicLog for compat |
| 20:17:26 | <Liskni_si> | no idea if all that's worth it |
| 20:17:55 | <Liskni_si> | DynamicLog could be "specific wrappers" module |
| 20:18:54 | <Liskni_si> | on the other hand having a module like StatusBar with clean interface is nice, too |
| 20:28:25 | <Solid> | maybe PP+plumbing, pipes, properties? |
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| 21:33:10 | <mc47> | a bit late to the party, but I guess it makes a bit sense to structure the modules around a data structure |
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| 21:35:00 | <mc47> | I kinda thought of .PP to contain the example formatters and the formatting utilities (wrap, pad ..) |
| 21:35:20 | <Liskni_si> | Solid: if plumbing includes the multiple bar stuff, I think it's probably best to separate from the PP stuff |
| 21:35:47 | <Liskni_si> | it gets too long otherwise (it wouldn't without the documentation, but then it'd be useless) |
| 21:35:48 | <mc47> | StatusBar for creating, composing, managing and binding the StatusBarConfig's |
| 21:36:37 | <mc47> | and DynamicLog for the statusBar, xmobar and dzen* |
| 21:37:18 | <Liskni_si> | maybe that's best after all |
| 21:37:26 | <Liskni_si> | we just need a good name for the PP module |
| 21:37:45 | <mc47> | The only thing that doesn't quite fit is the dynamicLog* functions.. I've put them inside .PP to avoid the circular imports, but it could be argued that we put them in DynamicLog |
| 21:38:13 | mc47 | is terrible with names |
| 21:38:26 | <Liskni_si> | well dynamicLogString definitely belongs close to PP |
| 21:38:54 | <Liskni_si> | and the other two too |
| 21:39:16 | <Liskni_si> | dynamicLogXinerama is some weird leftover crap |
| 21:39:29 | <Liskni_si> | who runs xmonad actually piped to dzen/xmobar? |
| 21:39:53 | <Liskni_si> | so that one goes to the compat module |
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| 21:40:29 | <Liskni_si> | (I mean someone probably does because if it worked 10 years ago it still works now, so we may not want to break it without a good replacement) |
| 21:41:00 | <mc47> | which one do you mean? |
| 21:41:02 | <geekosaur> | xmonad 0.3! |
| 21:41:57 | <Liskni_si> | mc47: which one I mean by which sentence? :-) |
| 21:42:38 | <mc47> | what goes inside the compact module? And which one is the compact module again? :D |
| 21:43:05 | <geekosaur> | compat(ibility) module |
| 21:43:07 | <geekosaur> | not compact |
| 21:43:24 | <mc47> | Oh, that makes sense now |
| 21:43:32 | <geekosaur> | DynamicLog, as distinct from StatusBar, with the current proposal |
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All times are in UTC on 2021-02-11.