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Logs on 2021-02-17 (freenode/#xmonad)

00:09:42 <Liskni_si> and you know what, let's make my xmobar prettier too
00:09:45 <Liskni_si> https://store.lisk.in/tmp/2021-02-17-000809_354x29_scrot.png
00:09:46 <Liskni_si> https://store.lisk.in/tmp/2021-02-17-000826_64x43_scrot.png
00:09:48 <Liskni_si> https://store.lisk.in/tmp/2021-02-17-000838_57x23_scrot.png
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00:24:18 <ttmx> Cool icons!
00:24:39 <ttmx> I just remembered, how can I make an "action" do something inside xmonad?
00:25:26 <ttmx> I want my layout icon to be clickable and swap layouts. The hacks I see involve using xdotool to mimick the keybinds, which I find extremely hacky and not cool xD
00:25:58 <Liskni_si> there's XMonad.Hooks.ServerMode
00:26:28 <Liskni_si> then you can do something like "xmonadctl next-layout", provided you define the action for "next-layout" in your config
00:26:39 <ttmx> Oh god
00:27:13 <Liskni_si> it's not exactly polished though, so I have an open pullreq that improves it a tiny bit
00:27:55 <Liskni_si> and then here's how I added it to my setup: https://github.com/liskin/dotfiles/commit/e142b22a06aba249ddf61ce68fc8ae1d7c0034e3, https://github.com/liskin/dotfiles/commit/19c41d964f995f4c11b1cc793807a911dd1216e6#diff-f3bd9f70ef878f30362ff11bbea7fd1d0d6abde1b4befa44b18cce5a27456204R273
00:29:10 <ttmx> Thank you :P
00:29:28 <ttmx> Just w a c k y that there isn't any default behaviours for serverMode
00:29:45 <ttmx> That there aren't?
00:29:51 <Liskni_si> well, there are, just the interface is massively silly
00:30:14 <Liskni_si> like you do xmonadctl 0 and it prints a list of commands somewhere and then you select by xmonadctl <some other number>
00:30:30 <Liskni_si> I didn't even consider trying to use that level of crazy
00:32:01 <Liskni_si> actually I think it'd be a good idea to change the default to what I have here
00:32:34 <Liskni_si> I'll make a note somewhere
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00:49:22 <kw> Anyone know why `installSignalHandlers` (in XMonad.Core) does the `getAnyProcessStatus` loop? It was added way back in 2009 but there's not really any explanation of what it's doing.
00:51:35 <ttmx> Make a dict with it :P
00:56:28 <Liskni_si> kw: there's a comment about it: "and clean up any extant zombie processes."
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00:57:52 <kw> Liskni_si: I see that, but I can't tell how it does that. It's calling `waitpid` without actually waiting. That seems like it polls processes but does not clean them up.
00:58:30 <kw> But I think I just don't understand `waitpid` properly.
00:58:51 <Liskni_si> kw: well that's what waitpid does it you tell it not to block
00:59:26 <Liskni_si> it gives you statuses of processes that already exited (zombies) and when it does that, they're finally released into the void
01:00:18 <kw> Oh, neat. I did not realize that it had the side effect of releasing them. Thanks!
01:03:05 <Liskni_si> for these things, manpages are usually the best resource (this bit is in the first paragraph of man 2 waitpid), although maybe the language used there isn't really accessible for people who aren't already familiar with that kind of terminology (I wouldn't know, been reading them for way too long)
01:12:11 <kw> Yeah, I should have read the man page more closely. I have no excuse (other than, as you say, writing style).
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03:43:16 <ttmx> geekosaur, if you want any wacky looking setups for the website, I would be really proud to have mine there
03:44:01 <ttmx> Sort of finished this today
03:44:18 <ttmx> Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/f5b4851fc7f263a463532f9a208122e6/image.png
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03:45:04 <ttmx> if kiwiirc compresses stuff too much just lambdabot me and I'll send you a better version
03:45:09 <ttmx> I'm really proud :D
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04:03:42 <AlexNevesky> ttmx: how did u get font awesome working with xmobar?
04:04:05 <ttmx> What do you mean?
04:04:28 <AlexNevesky> u have font awesome icons in the xmobar. im wondering how u got those working
04:05:10 <ttmx> https://termbin.com/sjdk
04:05:18 <ttmx> They just kinda worked?
04:05:32 <ttmx> Thats my config, I just set the font
04:09:37 <ttmx> It should all be in my github https://github.com/ttmx/dotfiles
04:09:43 <AlexNevesky> i really like your xmobar
04:09:49 <ttmx> Thank you :)
04:10:00 <ttmx> I'm proud of it, did it today with some help from people on the server
04:11:18 <AlexNevesky> hey i know your proud of what u did but if you want there is a way to change the way your write your keyboard shortucts
04:11:25 <AlexNevesky> makes it super easy
04:12:53 <AlexNevesky> omg how did you get ewmh in your xmonad.hs? every time i try it kicks back an error
04:13:06 <ttmx> I have no idea either
04:13:12 <ttmx> But yes! I'm 10000% up for improvements
04:13:21 <ttmx> I have to go to bed though, since its 4 am
04:13:56 <ttmx> So, speak now, or be quiet forever or however the saying goes
04:14:03 <ttmx> (or just tag me with lambdabot)
04:14:03 <AlexNevesky> ttmx: import XMonad.Util.EZConfig (mkKeymap, additionalKeys), myKeys = \c -> mkKeymap c $
04:14:09 <AlexNevesky> there you go
04:14:44 <AlexNevesky> then you can write your shortcuts as ("M-M1-d", spawn ("discord"))
04:15:07 <ttmx> Ah!
04:15:10 <ttmx> I've heard about that yes
04:15:17 <AlexNevesky> so much easier to write shortcuts
04:15:22 <ttmx> But felt it was kinda unneeded?
04:15:29 <ttmx> But yes, I'll look into it... Tomorrow :P
04:16:22 <ttmx> Good night, and thank you for the positive comments! Hope it gets put to good use (put me on the website! put me on the website!)
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04:54:56 <AlexNevesky> okay i dont understand it
04:55:18 <AlexNevesky> I follow what the haskell website tells me to do but for whatever reason i cannot get ewmh to work
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07:30:20 <Solid> I hvae to say I like the _look_ of the xmonad website quite a bit
07:30:35 <Solid> the information on it just needs to be updated
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10:21:31 <Liskni_si> any ideas how to get my github sponsors out there without all the other people who did a lot of hard work feeling I'm exploiting them?
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11:00:02 <Solid> mh good question
11:00:35 <Solid> I suppose some sort of "donating" heading where we explain that the xmonad project doesn't take any donations, but if one wants to one can donate to individual contributors?
11:11:19 <mc47> sounds reasonable
11:12:30 <Liskni_si> yeah, the technical side is easy, I can also just add myself to .github/FUNDING.yaml
11:13:13 <Liskni_si> the real problem is me being afraid of someone like peti reverting it immediately and unleashing an even bigger amount of hatred towards me
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11:14:08 <Liskni_si> (yeah, it's the "depressed about being held hostage by inactive senior maintainers" time again)
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11:18:12 <Solid> I doubt that'll happen
11:18:31 <Solid> as long as you don't sneak in a build change into it ;)
11:20:56 <Liskni_si> okay maybe opening a PR asking other core ppls to add their sponsor links might work
11:21:57 <Liskni_si> except now we have a financial incentive to become core and a financial incentive not to dillute it by adding more people
11:22:01 <Liskni_si> god I hate this world.
11:22:41 <Liskni_si> (or maybe we don't cause nobody will donate anything anyway)
11:25:04 <Solid> hint: it's going to be the latter
11:25:46 <Liskni_si> yeah, I should probably just start a youtube channel
11:26:00 <Liskni_si> (about writing a wayland xmonad)
11:28:15 <Solid> hah
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11:29:16 <Solid> I'd watch it :)
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11:32:27 <Liskni_si> unfortunately I'm not the kind of person who can work while being watched/recorded, and I don't have time to create a performance :-/
11:34:54 <Solid> then again, maybe people will donate
11:35:05 <Solid> I'm always surprised how many people actually use xmonad
11:35:53 <Solid> Of the nerds I know IRL, it's actually the most used window manager (none of them converted by me!)
11:39:33 <mc47> I'm not so sure whether people will donate, or at least do it regularly
11:40:05 <mc47> Personally the most I did is just a 5 or 10€ one-time donation to the things I use most
11:41:05 <mc47> but then again, I'm also a student, so not a lot of money to donate in the first place
11:41:17 <Solid> yes I probably shouldn't extrapolate from my sample size of 1 :D (I donate _way_ too much money to FOSS projects and other organisations)
11:41:37 <engblom> Solid: I think one of the strong points of xmonad is its sane default configuration and how you can customize it to almost anything. I use xmonad in all of my computers (both at home and at work). Deep inside I wish it would have been written in Common Lisp or any other higher level language because ghc + libraries wastes a lot of disk space.
11:42:47 <Solid> engblom: the solutions is to use more awesome haskell projects so the disk spaces is meaningfully spent :>
11:42:51 <Solid> s/ions/ion/
11:43:47 <mc47> Solid, I remember there's a java hibernate open-source library that offered an interface to use more advanced postgresql types (or something similar, forgot the details) and the developer put the option to donate
11:44:05 <engblom> Solid: Sadly I have not found anything else I need Haskell for...
11:44:20 <mc47> even though it was used by a lot of companies, they barely got any money
11:45:54 <Solid> engblom: if you use xmobar you can use it as a library :D
11:46:17 <Solid> other than that kmonad, pandoc, shellcheck, hledger,... there's a lot of good stuff out there
11:46:22 <engblom> Solid: I am using xmobar...
11:46:26 <mc47> it's shitty that there's a high opportunity cost to do open-source, and not enough incentive to do it :/ the general public don't realize how important it is and don't care to donate (I'm just ranting now)
11:47:02 <Solid> engblom: there's of course also always the possibility to learn haskell and do personal projects in it; it's fun I promise
11:47:55 <Solid> mc47: I suppose so yes
11:49:27 <engblom> Solid: I have already been going through "Learn You a Haskell for Great Good!" and it is thanks to Haskell I learned to appreciate functional programming. Then came to disappointment with Cabal and how way to often dependencies are broken, which led me to Clojure. Lein (as a tool) was just so much better than Cabal and I also fell in love with the Lisp family of programming languages.
11:49:58 <Solid> I have to say I've never used cabal without stack
11:50:42 mc47 had to reinstall cabal at least 10 times when starting to learn haskell, just to add a library
11:51:04 <mc47> still have no idea how to use it
11:56:03 <Solid> everything always "just worked" for me (though I've always just used stack projects)
11:57:37 <engblom> I am looking at stack, and it looks like it would be something more similar to lein for Clojure
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12:48:23 Liskni_si doesn't donate a lot either
12:48:48 <Liskni_si> my excuse is that I come from an eastern european country, so my time is more valuable than my money :-/
12:49:44 <Liskni_si> but it's just an excuse, I probably have more money than most Americans do, but I only have it because I don't spend it :-)
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13:16:28 <Liskni_si> (and by that I mean merely that I don't have debt)
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13:23:00 <ttmx> Heyo, I'm here once again!
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13:38:11 <Solid> hi :)
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14:12:11 <ttmx> geekosaur! You here?
14:12:27 <geekosaur> partially
14:38:48 <ttmx> Did you see my screenshot from yesterday? :D
14:39:34 <ttmx> And unrelated, but I have a script that whenever I change song, it outputs a new line, is there any way to use that on the xmobar?
14:48:31 <Solid> xmobar has a `CommandReader' plugin
14:48:46 <Liskni_si> and there's also https://github.com/jaor/xmobar/blob/master/examples/xmonadpropwrite.hs
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15:33:49 <ttmx> I seemingly can't find docs for the commandreader? Solid
15:33:53 <ttmx> Any chance I could get a link?
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16:35:15 <ttmx> Can I set a different "active" color for each one of the workspace icons?
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16:54:19 <Liskni_si> sure, ppWhatever are functions that take workspace names and then possibly add stuff to it, so you can match on the workspace name and use different colors
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17:46:36 <Solid> ttmx: https://github.com/jaor/xmobar/blob/master/doc/plugins.org#commandreader-pathtoprogram-alias
17:50:44 <ttmx> Thank you!
17:51:00 <ttmx> Can I not give it arguments
17:51:02 <ttmx> ?
17:52:20 <Solid> I'm not sure how it starts that program; depending on that you may just get away with "my-program --foo"
17:54:41 <geekosaur> looking at that link I'd guess you need to wrap it in a script
17:54:53 <Solid> or that yes
17:55:46 <ttmx> And does the commandreader restart the program if it exits?
17:55:51 <ttmx> Its such little documentation :(
17:56:11 <geekosaur> about par for xmobar >.> there are reasons I don't run it
17:56:55 <Solid> ttmx: no it doesn't
17:57:17 <Solid> if the program dies it displays "EXITED" :)
17:57:57 <geekosaur> so your script will need to run it in a loop, apparently
17:58:02 <ttmx> Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/babda45e4fa793cbf07e97677b6b8f00/image.png
17:58:09 <ttmx> I just want this but with no refresh rate ree
17:58:19 <ttmx> Which is what my script does lol
17:58:27 <ttmx> Is there a module that runs it in a loop
17:58:28 <ttmx> ?
17:58:29 <Solid> geekosaur: the newer commands are better documented :/
18:00:12 <Liskni_si> would be a nice weekend project for someone who wants to learn a bit of Haskell to rewrite xmobar's mpris plugin to listen on the bus instead of polling
18:00:27 <ttmx> I got it to work, just a little weird
18:00:32 <Liskni_si> obviously just hacking something together with playerctl real quick is way easier
18:00:42 <ttmx> Which is what I did :P
18:00:52 <Liskni_si> but, you know, "meaningful contributions" and all that :-/
18:00:57 <ttmx> Yesyes :P
18:01:15 <ttmx> I'm up for it of someone's hand is cold and wants to hold mine
18:11:19 <Solid> maybe it's time for me to learn what a dbus is
18:12:39 <geekosaur> a poorly thought out local messaging interface. sadly, it's what we have to work with, not something more sensible
18:14:24 <geekosaur> https://github.com/geekosaur/xmonad.hs/blob/pyanfar/xmonad.hs#L281-L291
18:15:24 <geekosaur> (I suspect the utf8 decode changes after Liskni_si's recent work lands, I'll figure out how then :)
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18:19:21 <geekosaur> I have no code for listening on dbus since all I need is the send side
18:19:41 <geekosaur> but there's a dbus package that should support both and have examples (one hopes…)
18:21:06 <Liskni_si> geekosaur: well you'll just drop the decodeString and everything will work as always
18:21:42 <geekosaur> that's how it looks to me but I'm not quite certain the dbus package is doing the sane thing either
18:22:33 <Liskni_si> shouldn't really matter but feel free to dig as deep as you wish :-)
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18:28:53 <Solid> aha so one would basically only have to match on a certain "this thing has changed" signal and then yell at the monitor to update itself?
18:31:21 <geekosaur> I don't know for certain how you'd integrate this with xmobar but I'd imagine a thread listening on dbus and updating an MVar and the monitor checking the MVar every so often
18:33:03 <geekosaur> or a Chan but then the monitor will have to deal with multiple updates
18:33:31 <Liskni_si> in xmobar plugins already run in their own threads
18:33:58 <Liskni_si> and they are passed a function that writes into a TVar that the main thread then reads and redraws
18:34:21 <geekosaur> oh, so it already just about does the right thing :)
18:34:31 <Liskni_si> there's absolutely no need to invent anything fancy, just write a function that listens on dbus and calls an action whenever anything changes
18:35:42 <geekosaur> there may even be examples of listening on dbus in there (that mpris2 monitor may be an example)
18:36:36 <AlexNevesky> geekosaur: could u take a look at my config and see how i would implement ewmh desktops as i have no idea what im doing wrong?
18:37:00 <geekosaur> @where paste
18:37:00 <lambdabot> Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at e.g. https://paste.tomsmeding.com
18:37:19 <Solid> Liskni_si: just trying to get a high-level understanding of how this would work :)
18:37:20 <Liskni_si> the existing mpris2 only polls, but xmobar does have a listening dbus thread somewhere else
18:37:51 <AlexNevesky> https://gitlab.com/brttmsn/dotfiles/-/blob/master/.xmonad/xmonad.hs -- This is my current xmonad config. Everytime i put ewmh down where the documentation says i get an error
18:38:03 <Liskni_si> Solid: yeah, I'm happy to provide highlevel explanations :-)
18:38:21 <Solid> I feel like a hack sometimes for not knowing these basics things :/
18:38:40 <AlexNevesky> i really need to sit down a couple of days a week and learn haskell
18:39:05 <Solid> in reality I'm just a mathematician who realized that if he wrote maths in _just_ the right way it compiles and does useful things =)
18:39:11 <Liskni_si> Solid: don't worry, I know about dbus but I know little about lenses
18:39:22 <Solid> haha
18:40:00 <Liskni_si> (was listening to a podcast from 2013 with ekmett today while washing the dishes, so now I know a bit more, though)
18:40:30 <Liskni_si> made me wonder how I managed to do Haskell for so long while avoiding them
18:41:24 <Solid> that is quite a feat
18:41:33 <Solid> but it's better to underuse than to overuse lenses tbh
18:41:58 <Solid> though that feeling when you finally find a use for `<<.=' is amazing as well :>
18:42:07 <Solid> AlexNevesky: `xmonad $ ewmh $ docks defaults'
18:42:24 <geekosaur> AlexNevesky, I think you want: xmonad $ ewmh . docks defaults {
18:42:39 <geekosaur> hm, that's possible too
18:42:52 <Liskni_si> do we have "xmonad $ ewmh . docks defaults" anywhere in the docs, btw?
18:43:15 <AlexNevesky> no
18:43:48 <Liskni_si> Solid: do you study maths or cs btw?
18:43:53 <AlexNevesky> Solid: thanks that worked. No errors or kickbackss
18:44:18 <Solid> Liskni_si: we have `main = xmonad $ ewmh def{ handleEventHook ...'
18:44:21 <Solid> which is close enough
18:44:24 <Solid> (I think)
18:44:40 <AlexNevesky> Anyone have a good online resource for learning haskell?
18:44:59 <Solid> Liskni_si: I study maths; I guess that's why I like haskell so much :>
18:45:57 <Liskni_si> oh
18:46:08 <geekosaur> @where cis194
18:46:08 <lambdabot> https://www.seas.upenn.edu/~cis194/spring13/lectures.html
18:46:19 <Liskni_si> AlexNevesky: "learn you a haskell for great good" seemed nice some time ago
18:46:37 <geekosaur> but you really need to find exercises somewhere
18:46:39 <Liskni_si> (and then erlang counterpart was awesome, too)
18:46:43 <geekosaur> (for LYAH)
18:46:59 <Liskni_si> (if your brain needs exercises, that is)
18:51:16 <AlexNevesky> i just wanna learn haskell as xmonad is a wonderful window manager and my favorite by far and it sucks that i cant resolve certain issues by myself
18:51:51 <AlexNevesky> like if u look towards the endings of my keybindgs i had to write out each command to switch to the corresponding workspace and each command to move windows to that corresponding workspace
18:52:00 <AlexNevesky> all b/c i dont know how to combine the commands
18:52:42 <AlexNevesky> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/PJvpRZ23 -- this is what im talking about
18:57:39 <geekosaur> did you see my cis194 link earlier? byorgey contributed that to the Haskell community some years back
18:58:38 <geekosaur> as for combining things, in xmonad <+> works just about anywhere except layoutHooks
18:58:44 <geekosaur> but it's nonstandard
18:59:20 <AlexNevesky> yes i did. im going to work over that and learn some haskell
18:59:21 <geekosaur> you'd use `<>` within `windows` and `>>` for keybindings and "command" hooks, for example
19:00:13 <geekosaur> `windows` is kinda like running a manageHook on the focused window on the fly
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20:00:45 <Liskni_si> good news: dons recovered password to the @xmonad twitter account and passed it to me, so we can use that media channel as well now :-)
20:04:47 <geekosaur> "yay" not that I've much interest in twitter
20:05:10 <geekosaur> (I was on it, a long time ago)
20:06:04 <Liskni_si> there are some followers so it's good for announcements and the occassional retweet of someone's nice screenshot or config or blogpost, or, perhaps, github sponsors :-)
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20:51:13 <geekosaur> hm. I need to clean this stuff up and then have someone willing to use cabal test it. preferably without an SSD in the mix so I can see if it's actually doing unnecessary work >.>
20:51:48 <geekosaur> (it's taking 9 seconds to mod-q here, which seems too long for what should be a no-op)
20:54:01 <Liskni_si> (my "make" which does stack build and stack exec ghc takes 1.2 secs, but I have both an SSD and enough memory to not need an SSD in the first place)
20:57:09 <geekosaur> hrm. same amount of time if I touch xmonad.hs :(
21:02:36 <geekosaur> well. it knows the difference between a rebuild and not a rebuild, but takes about the same amount of time for both. so I guess most of it is spent on the build plan :/
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23:10:45 <AlexNevesky> is there a way to have game windows overlap xmobar when they are launched?
23:23:04 <MrElendig> they should do that if they open as fullscreen, out of the box
23:24:06 <MrElendig> (for some defenition of out of the box)
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23:38:04 <AlexNevesky> well mine arent
23:38:16 <AlexNevesky> mine go to the edge of xmobar and then they just stop there
23:38:43 <AlexNevesky> ttmx: how you doing?
23:38:58 <ttmx> Hello there! I'm doing well as always
23:39:41 <AlexNevesky> Hey i got ewmh working in my config with some help from geekosaur and Solid

All times are in UTC on 2021-02-17.