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Logs on 2021-03-17 (freenode/#xmonad)

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06:11:42 <Solid> Liskni_si: I use fontawesome and symbola
06:11:54 <Solid> I thought eye-candy was a non-goal? :>
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08:09:51 <Liskni_si> Solid: yes, but high density is a goal
08:10:55 <Liskni_si> Pictures are worth a thousand words, they say. In xmobar it's more like an icon is worth one word, but takes the space of half a word.
08:12:41 <Solid> fair enough
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08:44:33 <Liskni_si> Solid: btw I think you may be too pedantic in the PR reviews: unless someone is a regular contributor, making them jump through all the hoops does more harm than good, it's sometimes better to just merge something that isn't perfect and then push a fix yourself
08:45:51 <Liskni_si> (I was guilty of this in the past but then I realized using vim and git is more fun than using browser and github :-))
08:46:09 <Solid> :D
08:46:25 <Solid> Yes good point, it probably creates too much friction for first-time contributors
08:47:09 <Solid> I'll try to better myself, though _not_ being pedantic is quite hard for a mathematician :>
08:47:40 <Liskni_si> Yeah, I know that feeling :-)
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08:51:03 <Solid> oh it just occured to me I could have pushed to their branch
08:51:05 <Solid> oh well
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09:20:20 <Liskni_si> I've gone a bit overboard I think: https://store.lisk.in/tmp/2021-03-17_09-19.png
09:20:38 <Liskni_si> but I can fit so much more in the xmobar now :-)
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09:22:26 <Solid> :D
09:22:36 <mc47> that looks good!
09:23:04 <mc47> So, the practical course is officially over (yesterday) and the report is finally ready
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09:23:30 <mc47> You can read it here :D https://www21.in.tum.de/teaching/osp/WS20/assets/fr-megdiche-xmonad.pdf
09:24:01 <mc47> It would be probably interseting to read the fourth chapter, where I tried to reflect on what works well and what does not work well within the community
09:24:46 <mc47> all in all, I'm pretty grateful my first open-source experience was with xmonad :D
09:24:55 <Liskni_si> I love the Pull Request Summary at the end!
09:25:57 <mc47> :D
09:26:09 <Solid> oh yeah that's really cool
09:26:10 <mc47> (other reports are also pretty interesting, https://www21.in.tum.de/teaching/osp/WS20/index.html)
09:26:50 <psibi[m]> Your report looks quite good. Thanks for sharing!
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09:33:01 <Solid> a small nit: out of the "we should use a more modern communication platform" discussion we did get a matrix channel which is bridged to IRC now, see for example psibi[m]'s nickname ending with a [m] :)
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09:34:59 <mc47> is it bridged? I thought it wasn't
09:35:15 <Solid> it is
09:35:33 <Solid> matrix is smart and creates new irc users for users that are on matrix
09:35:38 <Solid> with a little [m] at the end of their name
09:36:04 <Solid> s/matrix/the bride/
09:36:10 <Solid> bridge
09:36:13 <Solid> argh
09:37:02 <Liskni_si> I don't think you understand that fully
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09:37:22 <Liskni_si> Matrix bridges all of freenode, but it's not visible in the search by default
09:37:23 <mc47[m]> test
09:37:32 <mc47> OH
09:37:42 <Liskni_si> and there's another channel that _is_ visible in search, but isn't bridged
09:38:49 <Solid> oh really? interesting
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09:39:43 <Liskni_si> I mean, the "we should use a more modern communication platform" discussion did bear some fruits: the Matrix-only channel was broken and some users couldn't join, and the IRC-bridge channel was muted because we had some anti-spam channel mode and the Matrix bridge didn't understand and show the error messages
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09:40:17 <Liskni_si> but having the primary Matrix channel bridged like some other communities have would probably be better
09:40:53 <Liskni_si> I think heck-to-the-gnom first tried using that channel and only later figured out that here they're much more likely to get a response
09:41:24 <Solid> any chance reaching out to the person in charge of the channel?
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09:45:19 <Liskni_si> they've replied to me in the past, so yeah, probably an option
09:45:27 <Liskni_si> according to https://matrix.org/bridges/, what we need is a plumbed room
09:46:18 <Liskni_si> seems like that could link to #xmonad on Slack as well
09:47:21 <mc47> I didn't know all these possibilities!
09:47:36 <Liskni_si> #vimwiki has such a setup: matrix users are [m] puppets, and telegram users are bridgebot-style, so their messages come from a bot
09:47:50 <Liskni_si> it's a bit difficult to read then, though
09:48:22 <Liskni_si> my brain expects the nickname in a certain spot on the screen, so bridgebot-style messages look so weird
09:49:00 <Liskni_si> I don't know if we'd have to run the bridge ourselves or whether the matrix.org bridges can do plumbing for us
09:49:38 <Liskni_si> (running the bridge ourselves will additionally mean having to get an i-line from freenode admins…)
09:51:03 <mc47> I think we should first make the options more visible (for example, say that using matrix to bridge to the IRC is possible) and see what the users say
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09:55:35 <Solid> +1
09:55:44 <Solid> perhaps put it on the new and immproved website... :)
09:55:58 <mc47> definitely!
09:56:17 <mc47> another really important thing IMO is that we have a pile of good first issues
09:57:02 <Solid> that is a good point
09:57:23 <mc47> I have a couple on my mind that I'll probably open today or tomorrow (I'm tired of looking at screens for so long) and someone else should set the labels ;)
09:57:34 <Solid> I also think that we should clean out the labels somewhat
09:58:32 <Solid> like I can see that it's has the topic layout because the module is in X.Layout :D
09:58:40 <Solid> s/it's/it/
09:59:15 <mc47> I mean, that could still be useful.. for example a user wants to learn more about layouts, so they search for layout issues
09:59:50 <mc47> some labels are useful for reviewers, some are useful for new contributors
10:00:47 <Liskni_si> I don't actually look at the labels at all :-)
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10:01:32 <Liskni_si> sometimes I use them because they're there, but they don't help me at all, I just keep all of it in my memory or in taskwarrior or inbox
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10:04:27 <Solid> mh true, labels are probably especially useful for new cotributors
10:08:23 <mc47> Kinda off-topic, but one of the other students submitted this PR to vscode... you HAVE to check it out :) https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/pull/119105
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10:28:01 <Solid> LOL
10:28:06 <Solid> that's amazing
10:34:07 <mc47> https://zulip.in.tum.de/user_uploads/2/11/4jI6X6r2CsUPf2VN_So52RFW/image.png :D
10:35:49 <mc47> Oh I remembered something that we discussed yesterday, and I think it's really important to point out: we should prioritize PRs from first contributors
10:37:09 <mc47> it's really good to get at least a comment right away, something along the lines of "Thank you for your contribution" and maybe also say if we're busy or something that the review would take more time
10:37:35 <mc47> and I think it's better to merge them ASAP, and even push to their branch for minor fixes
10:38:09 <mc47> not sure if we should setup a bot to mark these PRs or to provide an automated response, or even assign a reviewer based on some criterion
10:38:34 <Solid> mc47: I need to log in to see that image ;)
10:38:44 <mc47> oh wait
10:39:04 <mc47> it's just a meme haha
10:39:08 <Solid> :D
10:41:14 <mc47> https://i.ibb.co/2cYYR71/proprietary.png
10:41:48 <Solid> hahahaha
10:52:00 <Liskni_si> we need to figure out a way to turn all these "we need" and "we should" into stuff that gets actually done
10:52:28 <Liskni_si> (and the irony of that statement being a "we need" is obviously not lost on me)
10:53:43 <Liskni_si> it would be a good idea to give you both more authority than you currently have
10:55:49 <Liskni_si> being a maintainer shouldn't require having intimate understanding of all the code, what's actually needed is just good judgement
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11:17:02 <mc47> Stuff should definitely get done, I wanted to know what others think before trying to take action
11:18:56 <mc47> I'm not sure what I'd do with more authority, except having a greater feeling of responsibility :)
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11:44:03 <Liskni_si> I imagine the process could be like "I think we should do X" "yeah indeed go ahead" "hey look it's done" rather than "I thik we should do X" "yeah indeed we should :-/" "remember how I told you a couple months ago we should do X? I still think that would be helpful" "yeah sorry"
11:44:44 <Liskni_si> I'm already above my head in coding, there's little chance I'll ever get to something like labels
11:45:54 <Liskni_si> and unless I missed something, mc47 can't touch the labels without being a member of at least the Contributors team
11:47:56 <Solid> I think so yes
11:48:10 <Solid> I can add/delete labels in contrib
11:48:27 <mc47> I can't touch them true
11:48:42 <Solid> (but not core because I'm not a maintainer, but only a collaborator)
11:51:25 <Liskni_si> obviously I wouldn't want to put more responsibility on someone who doesn't want that responsibility, but if you actually intend to be active around xmonad, you might as well get the authority to do stuff without having to wait several days for reviews for every little thing
11:54:29 <mc47> I guess I'm open for responsibility
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12:07:30 <mc47> This is an interesting bot that we could use to manage first contributors https://github.com/behaviorbot/welcome
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12:44:55 <Solid> mh it may be worth a shot
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13:27:32 <geekosaur> "We’re writing to let you know that an independent bug bounty researcher recently reported a GitHub Actions bug that, in theory, could have allowed an unauthorized user to fork a public repository which uses Actions and perform a series of steps to edit the main branch or use the GITHUB_TOKEN to perform other unauthorized actions. This bug
13:27:33 <geekosaur> existed in a very brief window from February 4 to February 5, 2021."
13:35:43 <Solid> yikes
13:38:21 <geekosaur> yeh. I don't think we have a big problem though
13:39:44 <Liskni_si> if anyone pushed anywhere, I'd gotten a notification through rss, and anything that happens to issues/prs goes in my mailbox; I don't think there's much else that can be done with that token
13:39:54 <Liskni_si> *'d have gotten
13:40:57 <geekosaur> right, that's my thought as well
13:41:55 <geekosaur> except for the hint that it could have edited undetectably (it is possible for a maintainer to directly edit the repo, and apparently someone holding the GITHUB_TOKEN briefly had that ability as well)
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13:43:17 <geekosaur> well, not entoirely undetectably, but no PR invlved. there'd still be a related diff
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13:43:33 <geekosaur> I'd like to think it would have notified someone of it
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13:45:00 <Solid> I'm wondering whether I should discuss setting up a system tray in the revised tutorial
13:45:15 <Solid> I've never used one myself; is this something that people want to know about?
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13:47:43 <Liskni_si> yes, I think talking about the tray is good idea
13:58:11 <Solid> alright, I'll try to get a first draft ready as soon as possible so people who actually use this stuff can find all the errors :)
13:58:54 <Solid> I'd like to get this in one of the two repos; I guess xmonad gets looked at more often (judging from github start alone), but obviously contrib is a big part of configuring... opinions there?
14:05:58 <Liskni_si> the wiki on the xmonad repo seems like the best place
14:07:16 <Liskni_si> apparently the wiki is just a git repo: https://gist.github.com/subfuzion/0d3f19c4f780a7d75ba2
14:07:18 <Solid> we have a wiki? :o
14:08:06 <Liskni_si> no
14:08:13 <Liskni_si> but it's a feature of github that's easy to turn on
14:08:26 <Liskni_si> so I should've said "a wiki" I guess :-)
14:08:26 <Solid> ah I see
14:08:29 <Solid> :)
14:08:48 <Solid> would that involve any special wiki syntax? right now it's just a big gfmd file
14:09:23 <Liskni_si> not sure but it's probably gfmd
14:10:40 <Liskni_si> although it seems like wiki's can just be forked and opened pr against
14:13:17 <Liskni_si> so maybe a separate doc repo that's then synced to the wiki to make it easier to browse? or maybe just let gh pages render it somewhere?
14:14:53 <Solid> wait now I'm confused
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14:15:00 <Solid> isn't that good?
14:15:07 <Solid> should it be s/can/can't/ ?
14:16:15 <Liskni_si> indeed, *can't
14:18:19 <Liskni_si> lots of projects also use readthedocs these days, but I don't know much about that except what the result looks like :-)
14:19:12 <Liskni_si> http://docs.qtile.org/en/latest/manual/install/index.html
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14:19:44 <Liskni_si> docs.qtile.org is an alias for qtile.readthedocs.org.
14:19:46 <Liskni_si> qtile.readthedocs.org is an alias for readthedocs.io.
14:22:22 <Solid> looks snazzy, though the current effort on my part is more like a single document that you can go through top to bottom
14:22:51 <Solid> then again there's this https://beginners-guide-to-xmonad.readthedocs.io/intro.html
14:22:59 <Solid> so it may well work in that format
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16:50:48 <Liskni_si> shall I tweet about your xmonad config Solid?
16:51:41 <Liskni_si> and what about mc47's report? I did get some positive vibe from it myself, but I'm not sure if it's something that should be shared widely? what do you think?
16:54:14 <mc47> I have no problem with that
16:54:41 <mc47> it might motivate someone to muster up the courage to contribute :D
16:57:29 <Liskni_si> okay!
16:57:58 <Liskni_si> mc47: do you have a twitter handle yourself that I can mention?
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17:01:15 <mc47> I have @mcyecine, but I don't really use twitter
17:02:36 <Solid> Liskni_si: sure, that'd be awesome!
17:03:50 <mc47> (my twitter is still in french, so it has been AGES since I opened it)
17:08:02 <Liskni_si> Solid: what pronouns do you use?
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17:08:23 <Liskni_si> (it's funny how english lets you avoid asking that question for months)
17:08:33 <Solid> :D
17:08:38 <Solid> I'm a he/him
17:13:27 <mc47> Solid your wallpaper had me laughing out loud :D
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17:30:20 <Solid> mc47: hahaha yes I really like that one as well
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18:31:31 <Liskni_si> https://twitter.com/xmonad/status/1372254080219889668
18:32:52 <geekosaur> "This is not available to you" (I'm not on twitter)
18:33:40 geekosaur is finally caught up on the logs, he thinks
18:34:16 <Solid> geekosaur: https://nitter.42l.fr/xmonad/status/1372254080219889668 works for me
18:34:28 <Solid> (it's a twitter mirror that doesn't require js, quite handy)
18:34:47 <geekosaur> yeh, that one works
18:35:08 <Liskni_si> twitter works for me in a private window
18:35:10 <geekosaur> but it's not js, I've looked at other tweets and have no idea why that particular one is protected
18:36:05 <Liskni_si> (I just wanted to let mc47 know that I've posted his report so that any typos are spotted :-))
18:36:21 <geekosaur> interestingly I can see it if I go to twitter.com/xmonad
18:38:18 <fizzie> Yeah, I don't know what was up with Twitter. I tried it at my work browser first, and then in my personal profile on the same system (neither is logged on to Twitter), and got that "your account can't perform this action" on the former but not the latter.
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18:48:20 <mc47> Liskni_si awesome! First thing I'll retweet :D
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18:57:44 <Liskni_si> ;-)
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19:13:40 <edmundnoble> How can I use the xmonad-contrib package with cabal newstyle?
19:14:13 <edmundnoble> I am assuming that `cabal install xmonad-contrib` no longer works
19:17:34 <geekosaur> it doesn't. but there's a build-script in the xmonad-testing repo for modern cabal
19:18:06 <geekosaur> you may want to adjust it to not expect xmonad or xmonad-contrib as local checkouts (edit the cabal.project file also in the xmonad-testing repo)
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19:21:16 <edmundnoble> Thanks, checking it out
19:22:57 <geekosaur> I may go ahead and update the website until someone decides what we're doing with it
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19:26:46 <Solid> feel free to
19:27:20 <Solid> I think the plan is to wait for a response in https://github.com/xmonad/xmonad-web/issues/5 and, if nothing comes, take the design and roll with it
19:27:34 <Solid> tsier's github account seems abandoned, so I doubt they'll respond
19:27:37 <Solid> but we can hope
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20:47:23 <Liskni_si> I wonder if we could somehow make xmonad remember how it was built and use that when recompiling the config
20:47:59 <Liskni_si> like I use "stack exec ghc" for building, and stack exec probably just sets a couple envvars or something
20:48:28 <Liskni_si> requiring people to have something.cabal for their config is a bit silly I think
20:53:47 <Liskni_si> although stack exec ghc doesn't take care of whether to add -dynamic or not, but that's an issue that can probably be ignored for now
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All times are in UTC on 2021-03-17.