Home freenode/#xmonad: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2021-05-12 (freenode/#xmonad)

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10:32:48 <kajzer> UrgencyHook works only with terminal windows ?
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11:20:02 <dminuoso> How can i synthesize key presses and send them to a particular window?
11:31:38 <fizzie> XMonad.Util.Paste.sendKeyWindow, but the documentation should really mention the associated limitations with that.
11:33:48 <fizzie> The xdotool man page has a good overview of the topic, under the "SENDEVENT NOTES" section.
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13:09:10 <dminuoso> Mmm, okay I think Ill rethink my problem
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14:55:31 <novasenco> I can't get ueberzug to work in xmonad
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15:41:15 <Solid> what is that?
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15:48:43 <novasenco> image previewer. works in xfce
15:50:38 ← davemq parts (~davemq@99-179-0-50.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net) ("ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.2)")
15:53:05 <Solid> what do you mean "works"?
15:53:14 <Solid> what do you expect to happen/what actually happens?
15:53:56 <novasenco> in my ranger config, I add a line to use ueberzug to preview images. ranger -> preview image -> works in xfce -> doesn't work in xmonad
15:54:25 <novasenco> set preview_images_method ueberzug in .config/ranger/rc.conf
15:54:41 <novasenco> yes I enabled previews.
15:54:57 <novasenco> set use_preview_script true/set preview_images true/etc
16:02:59 <Solid> oh this is one of those fancy terminal image previewers?
16:03:07 <Solid> seems unlikely that xmonad would cause anything there to break
16:03:24 <ElKowar[m]> well it does work by overlaying another thing on top of the terminal
16:03:27 <ElKowar[m]> it does some hacky X stuff
16:04:25 <Solid> aha
16:04:32 <Solid> so maybe ewmh or something
16:04:40 <Solid> that seems to fix most problems =)
16:04:41 <ElKowar[m]> yea maybe
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16:06:40 <geekosaur> I'm thinking it's actually more related to why mono apps don't work, since it's treating the terminal as a canvas window
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16:37:04 <dminuoso> What's the point of passive key grabs? If a grab is held as long as the key is pressed, but released then - what's the usefulness of it?
16:39:56 <geekosaur> it's not released when the key is, when the key is pressed the grab becomes an active keyboard grab until specifically released
16:40:49 <geekosaur> this basically gives you a key sequence that other clients can't "steal" or even see, since they switch control of the keyboard over to the client that requested the passive grab
16:41:36 <dminuoso> So does the mod-key from xmonad use such a passive grab then?
16:41:37 <geekosaur> meanwhile the client doesn't have to examine every single keypress to see if it should act, the server will wake it up when the right key sequence is pressed
16:41:50 <geekosaur> not the modkey itself but sequences like mod-q
16:42:46 <dminuoso> Ah.
16:42:59 <geekosaur> you can see this in programs which show unbound keys, such as emacs if I press mod-s it goes through and emacs reports it as an unbound key because xmonad doesn't have a grab on it either with my config
16:43:52 <dminuoso> So pressing down mod key will generate a key-down event for emacs, and if I then follow that up with `q`, this will trigger the grab and send the event right to emacs
16:43:54 <geekosaur> but once grabbed it gets every key pressed, so things like XMonad.Actions.Submap or XMonad.Prompt will work
16:44:05 <dminuoso> ahh
16:44:14 <geekosaur> emacs is just because I know it'll show the key instead of just beeping
16:44:21 <dminuoso> Sure, lets just stuck to that example - its fine
16:44:23 <geekosaur> so I can verify it sees the expected key
16:44:42 <geekosaur> emacs doesn't do key grabs, xmonad does
16:44:55 <dminuoso> How can I make emacs tell me this? It'd be nice if I could experiment myself
16:45:19 <geekosaur> it just reports it in the messages buffer "s-s is undefined" for mod-s with mod = mod4
16:45:27 <dminuoso> Oh, I guess xev would suffice too
16:45:35 <geekosaur> the first "s" stands for "super", thanks MIT
16:45:39 <geekosaur> yeh
16:46:58 <geekosaur> xev's a little annoying since you need to position the mouse pointer in the box to see the key events on the terminal, then use a layout that lets them run side by side (but I most commonly use tabbed…)
16:47:37 <dminuoso> Well, since I only care about keyboard right now, the focus is not an issue.
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16:49:25 <dminuoso> So this is interesting, if I start to press mod, keep it held, and then press a key say 'f' for which a passive grab exists in my xmonad, and then release 'f', and then release 'mod', xev does not receive a KeyRelease event for 'mod'
16:49:34 <dminuoso> How comes?
16:49:47 <dminuoso> Is the grab held until the entire key combination is released?
16:49:55 <dminuoso> (for a grab on key + modifier I mean)
16:50:35 <geekosaur> the passive grab is on the key release, I think, after wich all key events are directed to the grabbing client (xmonad, here)
16:50:51 <dminuoso> right, but key release of the entire modifier combination right?
16:50:57 <geekosaur> so neither xev nor anything else can see key events until xmonad drops the now-active grab
16:51:19 <geekosaur> generally not, just the "normal" key and not the modifier
16:51:40 <geekosaur> this leads to odd behavior if you bind a key both as a modifier and as a normal key
16:52:32 <dminuoso> wouldnt that suggest I should see a KeyRelease event for Super_L in the above scenario?
16:53:01 <geekosaur> no, because the grab becomes active at the key release for 'f'
16:53:23 <geekosaur> hm, I think that means it shouldn't see that one either
16:53:40 <dminuoso> hold on, the documentation suggests the grab becomes active at the key press
16:53:57 geekosaur is poking locally
16:54:28 <dminuoso> https://www.x.org/wiki/Development/Documentation/GrabProcessing/
16:54:38 <dminuoso> "A client can create multiple passive grabs (GrabButton/GrabKey), and they become active whenever the specified button/key is pressed, until it is released again."
16:55:01 <geekosaur> fwiw I see all key presses and releases locally and I think I have mod-f bound
16:55:33 <dminuoso> Plus, if I read the bit about implicit passive grabs, that strengthens my position
16:55:42 <dminuoso> "[About implicit passive grabs:] The purpose of the grab is to ensure that a ButtonRelease event is delivered to the same client as the ButtonPress event."
16:56:02 <dminuoso> That wouldn't make any sense if the grab was activated on the release event
16:56:42 geekosaur apparentrly misremembered
16:58:44 <dminuoso> Mind my asking, how do you make emacs report unbound keys?
16:59:47 <geekosaur> it does it by default down in the message line
17:00:16 <dminuoso> Haha, years with emacs and I never noticed
17:00:20 <geekosaur> oh, my config didn't have mod-f bound after all
17:00:36 <geekosaur> it's getting passed through, I would have had to use something like mod-t that I do bind
17:02:04 <dminuoso> I think I have some experimentation to do.
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17:03:28 <geekosaur> so for what it's worth, with mod-t which I know my config binds, xev sees the modifier key press and release but neither one for the t
17:05:40 <dminuoso> Really? I find that interesting
17:05:48 <dminuoso> Oh, I have a theory of why..
17:06:04 <geekosaur> you quoted it earlier
17:06:20 <geekosaur> >> "[About implicit passive grabs:] The purpose of the grab is to ensure that a ButtonRelease event is delivered to the same client as the ButtonPress event."
17:06:27 <dminuoso> No I meant, why I saw a different result in my xev than what you described
17:06:40 <geekosaur> oh
17:06:42 <dminuoso> Nope, still dont see a release event for mod key
17:07:15 <geekosaur> I had some WM_STATE and _NET_WM_STATE property change events before the key release
17:08:23 <dminuoso> Okay. my key combo created a new window, that seems like it influenced it
17:08:41 <dminuoso> I made a new key combo which just does `pure ()` as the action, and now I see the release event for Super_L
17:09:57 <dminuoso> and in fact, I see the grab notify on key down of f, and ungrab notify on release of f
17:10:39 <dminuoso> And as expected, no release event on t, since that would be sent to xmonad - as documented and expected
17:10:47 <dminuoso> (err, well f rather than t)
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17:17:52 <dminuoso> Time to glue xmonad to dbus. :)
17:18:04 <dminuoso> I sense great things on the horizon
17:18:38 <geekosaur> you'll need to rework the main loop, which currently assumes sleeping on XNextEvent() is sufficient
17:19:28 <dminuoso> oh
17:19:49 <dminuoso> I think I can work with that, does xmonad allow for hooks into the main l,oop?
17:22:50 <geekosaur> not currently
17:23:46 <geekosaur> I've thought about reworking it to listen for fd events (then you could hook in whatever) and passing the additional events to handleEventHook somehow, but it'd require extending it to support more than X11 events
17:23:58 <geekosaur> otr making generic fd hooks look like clientMessage events
17:28:52 <dminuoso> So my endgoal is to keep a keyboard led synchronized with the mute state of my microphone.. since I dont want to set up a separate server, I figured why not plug this into my xmonad.
17:29:08 <dminuoso> just subscribe to the respective dbus events (and perhaps send some back to manipulate the mute state)
17:34:22 <geekosaur> tbh we usually recommend doing that kind of thing outside of xmonad, to keep it small and focused
17:37:08 <dminuoso> And here I was, playing with the joke of writing xmonacs - a window manager with full emacs power builtin.
17:37:48 <dminuoso> Humor aside, Im just experimenting with various ideas here.
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17:48:22 <Solid> that would probably by exwm ;)
17:53:43 <geekosaur> someone iirc actually wrote a major mode for emacs that made it a window manager. it didnt go well, mostly because emacs is single-threaded and can't do things like window management and user interaction at the same time
17:57:22 <ElKowar[m]> Pretty sure there are a good few people that actually do use EXWM as their daily driver - they just learned to not do the things that block the main thread, and learned to deal with it
18:05:00 <dminuoso> Unrelatedly, I have a Cal key on my keyboard, which xev reports as XF86Calculator - how can I provide a keybinding for that?
18:05:14 <dminuoso> state 0x0, keycode 148 (keysym 0x1008ff1d, XF86Calculator), same_screen YES,
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18:06:42 <dminuoso> Do I have to modmap 148 to say Hyper_L and use that?
18:06:50 <geekosaur> use the hex keysym, not the keycode
18:07:09 <dminuoso> Oh, KeySym is just integral, did not realize
18:07:15 <geekosaur> you don't have to map it to a modifier, unless you intend to use it as one (that is, like a shift or control key)
18:07:31 <dminuoso> No, I want it as its own kney
18:07:35 <geekosaur> unwrap all the newtypes and type aliases and it's just CInt, iirc
18:08:05 <geekosaur> hm, no newtypes, just a 6-deep nest of aliases :)
18:10:44 <Liskni_si> geekosaur: http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Image:Xmbindings.png works again
18:10:59 <geekosaur> yay
18:11:44 <Liskni_si> > these are redirects from old urls that were put in place when we migrated the wiki to a new domain years ago, and got lost when we just migrated the server.
18:11:45 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:49: error: <hint>:1:49: error: parse error on input ‘in’
18:11:50 <Liskni_si> > (davean had temporarily disabled the rewrite rule in order to see if he could improve it, but it never got reenabled or improved -- so for now i just turned it back on)
18:11:52 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:51: error: <hint>:1:51: error: parse error on input ‘in’
18:12:30 <dminuoso> geekosaur: mmm, 148 does not appear to be working.
18:12:43 <geekosaur> use the hex keysym, not the keycode
18:13:09 <geekosaur> xmonad translates keysyms to keycodes internally and does not expose keycodes directly
18:13:15 <dminuoso> ahh
18:13:44 <dminuoso> this works beautifully, thanks
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20:49:47 geekosaur is trying to figure out if there's a batch way to convert the wiki
20:50:29 <geekosaur> looks like "not really" since I get a big xml file from mediawiki and no good way to pick individual pages from it for conversion or uploading
20:50:36 <geekosaur> not to mention how images would work
20:55:49 <geekosaur> in fact it doesn't export images at all, so it'll have to be manual
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All times are in UTC on 2021-05-12.