Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2021-05-22 (liberachat/#haskell)

07:24:11 → ircbrowse_tom joins (~ircbrowse@64.225.78.177)
07:24:11 Server sets mode +nt
07:24:58 <tomsmeding> ooh it seemes libera now requires all connections to be registered or something? After turning on sasl on the ircbrowse znc, it connected successfully
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07:38:44 <mniip> >ircbrowse znc
07:38:46 <mniip> yikes
07:39:01 <lep> ?
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07:39:37 <mniip> connecting a bot through a bouncer sounds like you're doing something wrong
07:39:41 <lep> nah
07:39:47 <lep> you get much stuff for free
07:39:55 <lep> ssl, sasl, reconnect
07:40:10 <lep> you can restart your bot and have znc feed you the missing stuff
07:40:14 <mniip> then use a bot framework that supports those things
07:40:18 <lep> i pipe all my irc stuff through znc
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07:40:46 <lep> znc is part of my irc framework
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07:45:51 <tomsmeding> mniip: ircbrowse is batches batches batches
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07:46:12 <tomsmeding> there's a znc, and ircbrowse itself periodically reads data from znc's logs in batches
07:47:03 <tomsmeding> there's a fast import that I'm running I believe every minute or so, that just adds new stuff to the database (postgresql); and there's a full import that also computes some statistics, I believe using some full table scans, that I'm running every hour or so
07:47:21 <tomsmeding> I think it's horrible but I don't see an easy way to make it better at the moment
07:47:57 <tomsmeding> also means that I have the logs on my server twice: once in a znc log, and once in the postgres db :)
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07:50:17 <andi[m]1> /!\ THIS CHANNEL HAS MOVED TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT #HAMRADIO /!\
07:50:18 <andi[m]1> /!\ JOIN #HAMRADIO TODAY. THIS CHANNEL HAS MOVED TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT #HAMRADIO /!\
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08:46:52 <Hecate> oink oink
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08:47:18 <gehmehgeh> oink
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09:33:54 <arahael> tdammers: FYI, I'm very happy with your "Ginger" library. :) Using it for a personal (not yet public) website.
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10:01:34 <[exa]> is there any (small, even incomplete) parser of markdown that would support the "metadata" entries on the top of the text, above '---' line ? smaller than pandoc, that is
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10:10:16 <__monty__> Maybe read until --- then use a yaml parser?
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10:22:23 <space-shell> Would anyone know of any good resources for robotics development?
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10:25:23 <[exa]> __monty__: kinda wanted to avoid hand-hacking this, but it seems like the way
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11:42:29 <kuribas> Is freenode deprecated now?
11:42:42 <hpc> yes
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11:42:52 <hpc> or at least, almost
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11:43:04 <ski> nothing's official. both are still is use, for the time being
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11:56:09 <juri_> so, yes. ;D
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12:09:38 <arahael> What's wrong with you guys? We're on libera, so of course, in our perspective, it's deprecated now. :D
12:09:51 <DasBrain> We got glguy :)
12:10:20 <mniip> what about meee
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12:11:16 <Franciman> mniip, do we got you on OFTC?
12:11:29 <mniip> there's an oftc channel?
12:12:11 <Franciman> I don't know :P
12:12:15 <Franciman> ok yes, there is
12:12:24 <mniip> there's like 7 people
12:12:32 <Franciman> :D
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12:46:45 <maerwald> more than on freenode...
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12:51:41 <arahael> maerwald: Woah! That's a decent milestone. :)
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13:12:51 <juri_> we'll get there.
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13:45:51 <yuglg> DasBrain: got in early; opened the channel.
13:46:31 <yuglg> When things calm down I've got some Haskell hacking to do to update my client for some of the new solanum stuff
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16:04:01 <Swong> anybody wanna buy dumps with pins worldwide , Full Info Virgin Credit Cards virgin full details ,payment BITCOIN who is interested to buy ---> Double Click #priv8 welcome
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16:04:34 <Swong> anybody wanna buy dumps with pins worldwide , Full Info Virgin Credit Cards virgin full details ,payment BITCOIN who is interested to buy ---> Double Click #priv8 welcome
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16:05:52 <maerwald> Credit Cards virgin? What is that even
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16:41:18 × Ankhers quits (~Ankhers@ec2-54-196-233-138.compute-1.amazonaws.com) (*.net *.split)
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16:41:18 × yaroot quits (~yaroot@6.3.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp) (*.net *.split)
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16:41:18 × Cale quits (~cale@cpef48e38ee8583-cm0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (*.net *.split)
16:41:18 haasn` is now known as haasn
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16:55:42 → yaroot joins (~yaroot@6.3.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp)
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17:10:32 <nitrix> I wasn't sure the first time but their second PRIVMSG convinced me. I am now rich and considering buying Freenode forcefully.
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17:16:49 <maerwald> lol
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17:48:26 <dmj`> so ghcjs is officially removed from nixpkgs
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17:48:34 <dmj`> ... RIP
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17:49:04 <maerwald> :(
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17:49:20 <boxscape> why?
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17:50:23 <dmj`> probably didn't want to maintain, Peti had already removed HaLVM from nixpkgs for that reason as well, and now he stepped down so
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17:50:41 <boxscape> I see
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17:50:57 <kosmikus> Peti stepped down?
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17:52:57 <boxscape> the Parsec readme says to `cabal install parsec`, but it now appears that parsec is shipped with ghc. Is that simply outdated information or is there actually a situation where you would have run that command?
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17:53:18 <dmj`> probably forcing people onto haskell.nix
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17:53:30 <kosmikus> these days, if you read "cabal install <library-name>", it's nearly always outdated information
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17:53:40 <boxscape> okay, that's fair
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17:55:21 <maerwald> dmj`: so miso has to switch too?
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17:55:39 <kosmikus> boxscape: so you should just declare your project to have a dependency on parsec and run `cabal build`, as with any other library
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17:56:14 <boxscape> kosmikus At the moment I'm mainly trying to figure out if I'm allowed to use parsec when running in an environment where ghc is installed without additional packages
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17:56:46 <kosmikus> boxscape: I see. I think parsec is indeed included, yes.
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17:56:50 <boxscape> ok
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17:57:04 <boxscape> thanks
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17:58:14 <kosmikus> boxscape: see also https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/commentary/libraries/version-history
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17:58:44 <boxscape> kosmikus ah, thanks
17:58:48 <kosmikus> boxscape: so it's included since 8.4.1
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17:58:52 <boxscape> right, okay
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18:03:54 <lwerdna> why might "reverse (myfunc x)" work but not "reverse . myfunc x"? where myfunc :: String -> String
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18:04:14 <ski> lwerdna : you need `(reverse . myfunc) x'
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18:05:03 <lwerdna> ski: thanks, what is it doing (that I don't intend) without the parenthesis?
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18:06:01 <ski> lwerdna : `reverse . myfunc x' is parsed as `reverse . (myfunc x)'. the "invisible juxtaposition function application" operator binds tighter than any (normal) operator
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18:06:53 <ski> lwerdna : however, note that if you have `foo x = (reverse . myfunc) x', then this could be shortened (using "function extensionality") to just `foo = reverse . myfunc'
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18:07:41 <lwerdna> ski: thanks
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18:07:57 <lwerdna> ski: is this not a related term I've heard "point free"? where the argument to the function is omitted?
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18:08:46 <ski> (function extensionality says that if two functions give the same output for each possible input, then they behave the same, and are considered to be equal (nothing else than the input-output associations matter, for a function). in the above case, since the function `foo', applied to an arbitrary input `x', is equal to the function `reverse . myfunc', applied to the same input `x', that means that `foo'
18:08:52 <ski> must already be equal to `reverse . myfunc', and `foo = reverse . myfunc' serves as an equivalent definition)
18:08:55 <ski> lwerdna : yes
18:09:15 <ski> (sometimes you also (jokingly) hear the term "pointless" for the same thing)
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18:09:51 <lwerdna> ski: I see you answered the same question back in January :) https://ircbrowse.tomsmeding.com/day/haskell/2021/01/10 sorry to make you repeat
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18:11:10 <lwerdna> so I guess it's not really an operator (when function and argument are juxtaposed), but it's a useful prop to think of it this way
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18:15:31 <ski> lwerdna : no worry
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18:21:25 <gentauro> geekosaur: is it possible to get `unaffiliated` here as well?
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18:22:00 <geekosaur> that I don't know. although I see a bunch of people with user/... cloaks, so maybe that's the replacement
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18:36:25 <__monty__> Yep.
18:36:43 <__monty__> /msg #libera-cloaks !cloakme
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18:36:55 <__monty__> That gets you a user/<nick> cloak.
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18:37:13 <__monty__> And it does seem to be the replacement for the unaffiliated cloaks.
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18:40:11 <sm> why are cloaks a thing ? shouldn't it happen automatically ?
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18:43:30 <geekosaur> some people want to hide their ip address, others don't or don't care
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18:44:19 <sm> seems like it should be the default these days
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18:48:00 <tomsmeding> Agreed; for me I don't care since the ip address is my public VPS anyway, but I can't imagine a case where a cloak would _hurt_ anyone
18:48:38 <__monty__> Well, they do give a bit of a false sense of security.
18:48:58 <__monty__> They only hide your IP from low-effort snooping.
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18:49:41 <gentauro> __monty__: let them work for it ;)
18:49:54 <monochrom> I care because I need to ban spammers and trolls without banning other users, even when all of them have the same self-selected nick and "username".
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18:51:01 <monochrom> From easiest to hardest for changing: nickname and username, cloak, IP address.
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18:51:41 <monochrom> As much as possible I would want the harder end, e.g. IP address, exposed to at least me so I can ban the right troll.
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18:52:51 <monochrom> So this is generally what's wrong with some of the liberal minds. They forget that bad people still exist and there needs some countermeasure that sacrifies a little bit of their utopian ideal.
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18:53:18 <monochrom> Don't worry, I have my gripes against the conservative ideals too.
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18:55:32 <maerwald> __monty__: that didn't work
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18:55:40 <tomsmeding> monochrom: very true, but in that case you kind of want either no cloaks at all, or only upon request with some kind of selective process
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18:55:59 <monochrom> Also cryptographically hashing IP addresses is a bad idea because there are times banning 123.456.789.* is the most balanced measure.
18:56:18 <enikar> maerwald: use #libera-cloak not #libera-cloaks!
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18:56:38 <maerwald> didn't work either
18:56:55 <tomsmeding> Ask in #libera
18:56:58 <enikar> maerwald: also, I have /join this channel for this to work
18:57:04 <tomsmeding> You wouldn't be the first one :p
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18:57:12 <tomsmeding> (to ask, I mean)
18:57:17 <maerwald> too much effort
18:57:22 <tomsmeding> 👌
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18:57:36 <maerwald> just pointing out that none of the instructions work :p
18:57:37 <monochrom> Yeah I would agree with some person or some AI doing some oversight over giving out cloaks.
18:58:01 <enikar> maerwald: /join #libera-cloak, then put !cloakme
18:58:09 <enikar> that worked for me.
18:58:13 <__monty__> maerwald: Do note it's not instant.
18:58:31 <__monty__> Maybe your client doesn't support /msg'ing channels?
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18:58:45 <maerwald> __monty__: your instruction resulted in "Cannot send to nick/channel"
18:58:45 <monochrom> :)
18:59:18 <tomsmeding> "it's not instant" — Interesting, makes me wonder whether there _is_ some kind of selective process going on
18:59:23 <maerwald> my client can msg channels
18:59:30 <monochrom> Little known secret: so-called "normal public" messages to a channel is, at the protocol level, PRIVMSG #haskell
18:59:35 <__monty__> tomsmeding: Just a bot I think.
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18:59:59 <int-e> __monty__: #libera-cloak has +n like most channels, so you need to be joined to message it
19:00:06 <monochrom> Perhaps the channel banned you? >:)
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19:00:19 <__monty__> int-e: Ah, thanks for clearing it up.
19:00:20 <int-e> and yes, the channel bans cloaked users
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19:00:35 <tomsmeding> :D
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19:00:51 <monochrom> The only channel that bans legitimate users...
19:00:56 <maerwald> well, appears it was instant
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19:01:02 <maerwald> I don't believe any of you anymore :p
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19:01:10 <int-e> tomsmeding: imagine the alternative...
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19:01:33 <int-e> tomsmeding: it's a pretty sane choice, though rude and a source of confusion :)
19:01:52 <tomsmeding> I like it
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19:02:11 <int-e> (I'm not involved, just hanging out on #libera so I've seen a bit of that confusion)
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20:29:12 <gentauro> but what is the deal? move all users to libera, then "sell" to next "douche" and moving time again?
20:29:40 <manicennui> That's Prince Douche.
20:29:43 <gentauro> it's also a trend with companies providing "open source"
20:30:06 <gentauro> they can at any time change the license to a propietary and vupti, you worked for free
20:30:28 gentauro except if they use the GPLv3 / AGPLv3 and so
20:33:34 <Vq> They can only change the license for future versions.
20:34:45 <Vq> Doesn't have anything to do with GPL, it would work the same with MIT or BSD.
20:35:27 <maerwald> Vq: depends... they have to ask contributors first, until there was a contribution agreement
20:35:29 <Vq> Even if you signed over the copyright you could still fork the last free version.
20:35:48 <ac> it depends if there is a CLA in place or not
20:35:49 <maerwald> e.g. the linux kernel will very likely never change its license, because it's too hard
20:36:34 <monochrom> What's the deal indeed. You are free to not switch.
20:38:11 <maerwald> I'm fine with moving every 10 years if that means giving some ppl a taste of what it means to lie to users
20:39:00 <maerwald> I hope this happens to github soon
20:39:34 <maerwald> We did it to sourceforge, so...
20:40:15 <manicennui> Were there ever any dependency management systems that were entirely based on sourceforge?
20:40:30 <slowButPresent> gentauro: that is when we fork. Some examples: OSD, OpenOffice, XFree86. Its bad for everyone. Even Oracle hasn't found a way to make money at it.
20:40:33 <Vq> I hope for that too, github have had a long run.
20:40:56 <slowButPresent> s/OSD/OSS
20:40:56 <Vq> I don't think Microsoft will pull a Lee on github tomorrow though.
20:41:25 <du> I'd love it
20:41:34 <maerwald> github is more of a social platform today than a development platform
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20:41:39 <du> sometimes the world just needs to burn
20:42:04 <maerwald> does everything really need like buttons?
20:42:16 <gonz> GitHub has basically only improved since MS bought it, it seems to me.
20:42:48 <manicennui> GitHub now has themes!
20:42:53 <ac> yeah and for a social platform there is quite some development going on there.
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20:44:28 <gonz> It was stagnating and getting pretty bare in comparison to other offerings before that. Almost immediately after the acquisition they made more things free for everyone, etc.. Some of them were things that were free in other offerings long before and GitHub was basically coasting on fast response times only in comparison to GitLab.
20:45:10 <gonz> They also made sponsorships a thing, which I think is great.
20:45:17 <maerwald> I use github for the network effect. Everything else is rathes unappealing, including CI.
20:45:33 <ac> I just send patches by email.
20:46:23 <maerwald> these days you're lucky if you get *any* contributor, so I won't offend them by giving weird instructions like "here, post your patch on this mailing list"
20:46:45 <juri_> i ended up moving to github, because of contributors.
20:46:49 <maerwald> (I also avoid maintainers who don't provide public issues trackers)
20:47:14 <maerwald> ac: sure, I accept patches via email
20:47:17 <Vq> I had to use it to send patches to the NixOS project. GitHub is more confusing than contributing to Linux.
20:47:20 <juri_> I'm working on setting up a solution in gitlab, to tempt my contributors back over.
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20:49:06 <ac> maerwald: wonder were built this way! still the most reliable way to send a patch.
20:50:40 <maerwald> ac: better than a patch is a pull request (which can be done via email as well)
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20:52:52 <maerwald> juri_: have they managed to get a competent admin?
20:54:06 <juri_> maerwald: I'm looking at moving over to the IEEE SA's hosted gitlab instance.
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20:54:38 <juri_> so, an admin team i know and trust.
20:55:39 <maerwald> good... I don't trust the github admins either... their spam detection is fishy and sometimes trigger inaccurately. That will cause your entire account, all your repositories and all the issues on any repository you opened on github to be hidden
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20:56:12 <maerwald> Then you have to send emails that take 2-3 weeks back and forth
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20:57:15 <maerwald> That remains you that you don't own any data on their servers
20:58:02 <maerwald> Unfortunately, we haven't managed to come up with a "contribution protocol" that's maybe even VCS agnostic
20:58:44 <maerwald> So your options are: 1. terrible fragmentation and 2. terrible centralization
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21:01:10 <DasBrain> In some way, I like what OpenJDK did (but they poured a lot of resources into that): Don't break the original workflow, and use github bots/integrations to "merge" it with the github PR workflow.
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21:06:47 <maerwald> The reason github is so popular is because now you have to memorise less workflows. But it's implicit and infrastructure specific. A better way would be a protocol
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21:15:16 <gentauro> 22:40 < slowButPresent> gentauro: that is when we fork. Some examples: OSD, OpenOffice, XFree86. Its bad for everyone. Even Oracle hasn't found a way to make money at it
21:15:24 <gentauro> slowButPresent: but it's a good way to kill a project :)
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21:25:18 <pflanze> What is the proper way to go about changing say a list data type to a Data.Vector in a Haskell program?
21:26:01 <pflanze> Changing the data types is the easy part; the difficult one is to replace all the calls to map, catMaybes, lefts, rights etc.
21:26:24 <pflanze> I'm missing an abstraction here.
21:26:48 <pflanze> Now that I'm saying this out loud, there is one, functors, no?
21:26:53 <monochrom> fmap works for both.
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21:27:04 <pflanze> yep. OK. Now how about lefts etc.
21:27:10 <monochrom> all Foldable methods work for both
21:27:27 <pflanze> Haskell is really full of legacy, right?
21:27:34 <monochrom> IIRC Vector has "filter" too.
21:28:10 <pflanze> Clojure has a sequence type. So, map filter etc. would automatically work without code change.
21:28:53 <pflanze> (I don't know how much of the catMaybes, lefts etc. things it has though.)
21:29:52 <pflanze> BTW, I'm probably going to want to change to an *eager* Vector type soon. Haven't checked yet whether that will be Data.Vector or I'll have to go through the same circus again :)
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21:41:04 <infinisil> pflanze: If you want abstraction over sequence-type things, check out https://hackage.haskell.org/package/mono-traversable
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21:43:58 <pflanze> Cool, thanks for that link
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21:49:44 <pflanze> Hmm, the mono-traversable docs say: "in the upcoming GHC 7.10, using Functor, Foldable, and Traversable will become common-place. (..) map from the prelude will work on all data types that are a Functor"
21:50:26 <pflanze> Why did I have to change my code from using map to Vector.map then?
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21:50:39 <pflanze> Using GHC 8.8.4
21:51:42 <boxscape> pflanze they decided not to change the type of map, fmap is the generic one
21:51:51 <pflanze> Aha
21:52:42 <boxscape> I think mainly because they don't want confusing error message for beginners, where if you say e.g. `map [1,2,3] (+5)` it suddenly mentions Functors instead of lists
21:52:58 <pflanze> Ok
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21:54:59 <pflanze> I wonder if there's a "Modern Haskell" book or so that teaches how to navigate Haskell "for the good parts"?
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21:57:57 <enikar> what are "the goods parts"?
21:58:11 <monochrom> Some blogger's myth.
21:58:27 <monochrom> In here we don't draw a line.
21:59:18 <monochrom> We draw a line for good uses and abuses.
21:59:44 <monochrom> For example the list type is not "good" or "bad". But there are good uses and abuses.
21:59:49 <monochrom> PEBKAC as usual.
21:59:52 <enikar> my question was only rethorical.
22:00:32 <monochrom> Yeah, unfortunately Snoyman blogged to make people believe there are "good parts" and "bad parts".
22:01:11 <monochrom> That blog entry was basically unheard of by the regulars here because we don't read his blog.
22:01:38 <Vq> n+k patterns were removed, I guess enough people deemed that a "bad part".
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22:03:27 <boxscape> Certainly seems like if they had never existed they never would be able to make it into the language today
22:03:37 <boxscape> the use case seems fairly narrow
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22:04:16 <boxscape> (mostly "demonstrate neat little introductory examples of how Haskell looks like math", I would think)
22:04:47 <boxscape> though I'm not sure why I'm going on about this, not like I have to convince anyone
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22:05:56 <pflanze> I was using the "good parts" sentence referring to JavaScript. I haven't read any blog post on this about Haskell.
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22:06:28 <Vq> boxscape: I think that's exactly it.
22:07:45 <pflanze> What I basically meant is, "how do I write good Haskell code that's generic or easy to modify, what do I need to know to achieve this?"
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22:09:27 <boxscape> Matt Parson's is writing a "Haskell in production" book which seems like it might go in that direction, but I haven't actually read it yet
22:09:31 <boxscape> ( https://leanpub.com/production-haskell )
22:09:32 <pflanze> Like, I know to avoid a range of non-total functions like `head`, now `map`, now fmap is for Functor not Traversable, so it's a bit confusing to see which are the right bits for which cases.
22:09:42 <boxscape> also his name is not a genetive, actually, it's Matt Parsons
22:10:48 <boxscape> pflanze a good primer on Functor and Traversable etc is the Typeclassopedia
22:10:52 <boxscape> @where typeclassopedia
22:10:52 <lambdabot> http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Typeclassopedia
22:11:10 <pflanze> Thanks, I'll check those out
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22:56:04 <boxscape> Seems strange that Parsec still defines its own <|> instead of just re-exporting the one from Control.Applicative
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22:57:20 <boxscape> (same with `many` etc.)
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23:00:59 <sprog> Wow, this channel has a lot more users than the one on Freenode.
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23:05:16 <int-e> > 370 > 766
23:05:18 <lambdabot> False
23:05:36 <int-e> sprog: I don't understand the metric :)
23:06:51 <Morrow> @let 370 > 766 = True
23:06:51 <lambdabot> <command line>: cannot satisfy -trust random
23:06:51 <lambdabot> (use -v for more information)
23:07:21 <boxscape> foiled, yet again
23:09:31 <int-e> uh, but that's not a good reason...
23:10:29 sprog doesn't have the nicklist turned on in his irc client, so was just going off of memory.
23:10:48 <int-e> But I probably know what's wrong.
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23:11:13 <int-e> @let 370 > 766 = True
23:11:14 <lambdabot> Defined.
23:11:22 <int-e> > 2 > 1
23:11:24 <lambdabot> error:
23:11:24 <lambdabot> Ambiguous occurrence ‘>’
23:11:24 <lambdabot> It could refer to
23:11:27 <int-e> @undef
23:11:30 <lambdabot> Undefined.
23:11:54 <boxscape> > fmap (+5) 4 -- int-e btw earlier I did this
23:11:55 <lambdabot> error:
23:11:55 <lambdabot> • Ambiguous type variable ‘f0’ arising from a use of ‘show_M449914741216...
23:11:55 <lambdabot> prevents the constraint ‘(Show (f0 Integer))’ from being solved.
23:12:10 <boxscape> and it said show more with @More
23:12:12 <boxscape> @more
23:12:12 <lambdabot> Plugin `more' failed with: Prelude.init: empty list
23:12:15 <boxscape> but that appeared
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23:12:43 <boxscape> (okay actually it said [15 @more lines]
23:12:52 <boxscape> )
23:13:34 <int-e> hrm, interesting
23:13:58 <ski> `@more' has been a bit broken/flaky, for a while. usually working for the next page, but then failing
23:14:21 <int-e> when did I last touch that
23:14:49 <int-e> 2013?!
23:15:10 <int-e> (Well, that's More.hs itself)
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23:17:39 <int-e> (Well, *I* never touched that module. But I may have touched something in Lambdabot's generic state handling machinery that broke it, hmm.)
23:18:11 <int-e> Well, it'll have to wait
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23:19:02 <boxscape> I'll just imagine something for what the rest of the error message was until then :)
23:19:39 <int-e> it'll be similar to the same thing in ghci
23:19:44 <boxscape> that is true
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23:29:27 <int-e> https://github.com/lambdabot/lambdabot/issues/199 is all I have energy for right now :P
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23:30:57 <boxscape> that's plenty
23:32:21 <int-e> declaration of intent to fix
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23:39:34 <jaevanko> Is the "best" way to do a GUI in Haskell gi-gtk?
23:40:07 <monochrom> All PhD theses that take forever to finish begin with a statement of intention to do a PhD. >:)
23:41:25 <monochrom> I think yes.
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23:47:10 <FreeVariable> Whenever I connect to this channel there is 0 history, 0 log, just an empty white page, which is not very enticing. Is it intended or is it because of my default settings?
23:47:39 <FreeVariable> (I am new to this IRC thing)
23:48:15 <monochrom> Intended.
23:48:24 <monochrom> IRC servers don't keep history.
23:48:34 <FreeVariable> Ouch.
23:49:19 <FreeVariable> But Matrix does, so there would be a chat history for people connecting over Matrix?
23:49:22 <ham> you can find them here though: https://ircbrowse.tomsmeding.com/browse/lchaskell
23:49:33 <monochrom> I don't know Matrix.
23:49:39 <FreeVariable> Okay.
23:49:47 <monochrom> But I would ask the economic question: Who pays for the storage?
23:49:49 <boxscape> FreeVariable I believe so, IIUC matrix stays connected to the IRC server so you don't have to
23:49:54 <felixphew> FreeVariable: yes, but there's no Libera.Chat large-scale bridge set up yet
23:50:01 <ham> (it's just not part of the irc protocol, like on discord or slack)
23:50:06 <felixphew> (both communities are working on it)
23:50:44 <FreeVariable> felixphew ham I see, thanks
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23:52:59 <felixphew> many people either run a "bouncer" like znc that stays permanently connected to IRC and keeps history, or simply leave an IRC client running all the time (often on a remote server)
23:53:40 <felixphew> also, many channels keep a public log - this one included: https://ircbrowse.tomsmeding.com/browse/lchaskell
23:54:39 <FreeVariable> It's okay if you happen to have a simple question and to ask it during a favourable time window. But searchability, discoverability, and overall social experience is awful.
23:55:00 <FreeVariable> I guess that's not the point of pure IRCs chats, I get it.
23:55:59 <monochrom> Social experience eh?
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23:56:38 <monochrom> If my friends are at a pub and I join them late, I don't expect a replay.
23:56:56 <monochrom> And that is not an awful social experience.
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23:57:44 <monochrom> And that is real life. Not this Facebook make-believe.
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All times are in UTC on 2021-05-22.