Logs on 2021-06-03 (liberachat/#haskell)
| 00:01:28 | <boxscape> | hm I guess considering mtl doesn't have a class for it it's probably not widely used |
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| 00:05:15 | <davean> | boxscape: it has a pull request I think for it, see the history |
| 00:08:50 | <boxscape> | davean ah, nice |
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| 00:16:12 | <hololeap> | I like it. it saves the trouble of having to do `flip runState mempty` and `modify (<> nextThing)` when your state happens to be a monoid |
| 00:16:33 | <boxscape> | that does make sense |
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| 01:02:58 | <guest61> | what is Kira? |
| 01:03:18 | <Axman6> | In what context? |
| 01:03:26 | <guest61> | https://twitter.com/arachnocapital2/status/1399890272348033026?s=19 |
| 01:03:46 | <guest61> | jira |
| 01:03:56 | <guest61> | sorry typo |
| 01:04:20 | <boxscape> | an issue tracker |
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| 01:04:26 | <Axman6> | Atlassian's issue tracker |
| 01:04:37 | <Axman6> | very popular, but not with devs :) |
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| 01:06:10 | <tput> | I'm working on a practice problem that involves a fibs like sequence, but the combining function is parameterized, so we have a separate sequence for each natural. I'm trying to use the usual bottom up lazy sharing thing, but I can't get the sharing to work. I would appreciate another set of eyes. https://pastebin.com/vndFjWba |
| 01:07:15 | <guest61> | do hsskell has some libraries like Python's requests? |
| 01:07:21 | <guest61> | have |
| 01:07:45 | <boxscape> | @unpl (((+ (10*k)) .) . (-) . (*2)) |
| 01:07:45 | <lambdabot> | (\ x x0 -> ((x * 2) - x0) + (10 * k)) |
| 01:07:46 | <Axman6> | what is Python's requests? |
| 01:07:49 | <boxscape> | would this really perform worse? |
| 01:08:36 | <guest61> | easy to do restful request |
| 01:09:20 | <Axman6> | Sure, we have several libraries for http requests - wreq, req and my favourite is servant-client, but it's somewhat advanced |
| 01:10:27 | <tput> | boxscape yes, that's equally fast. You can't however say replace it with g a b = (2*a)-b+10*k |
| 01:10:33 | <boxscape> | I see |
| 01:11:00 | <c_wraith> | tput: first question: do you need sharing across separate calls to f with the same argument, or just within a single call? |
| 01:11:11 | <tput> | hard coded values for k get the sharing right and are O(n) |
| 01:11:36 | <tput> | sharing just in a single (recursive) call, and with just a single value for k |
| 01:12:14 | <c_wraith> | tput: ok, the problem is that you're calling f again. I think you've mixed up the usual idiom |
| 01:12:45 | <tput> | how do I avoid recalling f k in the parameterized version? |
| 01:12:50 | <c_wraith> | tput: usually you'd write something like f k = let xs = 42 : 11 * k + 77 : zipWith stuff in xs |
| 01:13:17 | <c_wraith> | notably, the zipWith should refer to xs |
| 01:13:29 | <tput> | ahh, yes. that makes sense. I'll go try that out |
| 01:13:45 | <guest61> | wreq seems nice |
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| 01:16:30 | <tput> | c_wraith: that's linear time now! interestingly I'm hitting a stack overflow in GHCI, but when compiled with -O2 it's linear time and no stack overflows. |
| 01:17:04 | <c_wraith> | sounds like strictness then - are you measuring without evaluating each value in the list? |
| 01:17:39 | <tput> | my naive measurement is just to index (!!) far out into the list. |
| 01:17:43 | <tput> | and then print |
| 01:17:59 | <c_wraith> | yeah, that will build up thunks unless the strictness analyzer catches it |
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| 01:18:12 | <c_wraith> | which it does with -O2 , apparently |
| 01:18:16 | <c_wraith> | but not in ghci |
| 01:18:41 | <tput> | yeah, not sure how to annotate this to get ghci to pick up on it, but compiled code is what matters, so I won |
| 01:18:45 | <tput> | 't complain |
| 01:19:36 | <tput> | thanks c_wraith and boxscape for your help here |
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| 01:19:49 | <boxscape> | I guess using (\!x! y -> ((x * 2) - y) + (10 * k)) would do it? |
| 01:20:11 | <c_wraith> | no, actually |
| 01:20:20 | <c_wraith> | you can't fix it with zipWith |
| 01:20:27 | <boxscape> | ah |
| 01:20:39 | <boxscape> | you need a strict zipWith, eh |
| 01:20:52 | <c_wraith> | You need to link evaluation of the (:) constructors with evaluation of their first arguments. |
| 01:21:05 | <boxscape> | oh that's what you meant, okay |
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| 01:21:39 | <tput> | is there a clever spot to insert a seq that could do that? |
| 01:21:54 | <c_wraith> | nope. Best you can do is a post-processing step |
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| 01:22:58 | <c_wraith> | like... headStrict :: [a] -> [a] ; headStrict [] = [] ; headStrict (x:xs) = x `seq` (x : headStrict xs) |
| 01:23:21 | <c_wraith> | then change the definition to ...... in headStrict xs |
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| 01:25:17 | <tput> | so that forces the elements to be strict (forced once their part of the spine is forced), but the spine is still lazy. yes? neat |
| 01:25:26 | <c_wraith> | exactly |
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| 01:25:48 | <tput> | thanks again, learning more than I asked for! |
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| 01:26:06 | <c_wraith> | you're welcome |
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| 01:26:29 | <tput> | tbc, learning more than I asked for is a good thing |
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| 01:26:53 | <c_wraith> | I hadn't even considered you might have meant something else. Glad you didn't. :) |
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| 01:33:25 | <c_wraith> | honestly, there probably should be a variant of zipWith that applies that strictness pattern without needing a separate helper, but endless strictness variations in base can be a tedious sell. |
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| 01:36:01 | <tput> | especially given that the strictness analyzer typically covers my butt even when I don't know what I'm forcing and when |
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| 01:49:14 | <sm[m]> | https://github.com/simonmichael/hledger/pull/1543#issuecomment-853497253 <- in which I quibble over the format of detailed --version output. Do you happen to know a tool that represents best practice, with nicely readable detailed version output ? |
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| 02:08:50 | <libertyprime> | hey guys. i'm trying to run ghcide from stack and its proving to be quite troublesome to do so. |
| 02:09:36 | <libertyprime> | stack install copies binaries from ~/.stack/snapshots to ~/.local/bin |
| 02:09:59 | <libertyprime> | the issue with this is that when i run stack exec -- ghcide, it will look for the binaries in ~/.local/bin |
| 02:10:44 | <libertyprime> | but if im trying to run "stack exec -- ghcide" whilst in a specific stack project, that project may used a different versino of ghc |
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| 02:11:24 | <libertyprime> | so how would i run the built version of ghcide that i want. "stack exec -- ghcide" can't find ghcide unless i install it |
| 02:11:45 | <libertyprime> | id like stack to be able to find the appropriate binary from the build artifacts in ~/.stack/snapshots |
| 02:11:55 | <libertyprime> | or am i going about this the wrong way? |
| 02:14:55 | <libertyprime> | i can do this: |
| 02:14:59 | <libertyprime> | exec "$(find ~/.stack/snapshots -type f -path "*/$(stack ghc -- --version | rev | awk '{print $1}' | rev)/bin/ghcide" | head -n 1)" |
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| 03:27:49 | <kSletStg> | Andrdew Lee liAkes hoyt asian cocVks!!! |
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| 03:27:51 | <kSletStg> | AgndrYew Lee likesw bhot VasRian cochksq!d!! |
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| 03:33:26 | <ukari> | @hoggle (Monad m, Applicative f) => f (m a) -> m (f a)) |
| 03:33:26 | <lambdabot> | package base |
| 03:33:26 | <lambdabot> | package bytestring |
| 03:33:26 | <lambdabot> | package containers |
| 03:34:43 | <ukari> | @hoggle (Monad m, Applicative f) => f (m a) -> m (f a) |
| 03:34:44 | <lambdabot> | Prelude sequence :: (Traversable t, Monad m) => t (m a) -> m (t a) |
| 03:34:44 | <lambdabot> | Control.Monad sequence :: (Traversable t, Monad m) => t (m a) -> m (t a) |
| 03:34:44 | <lambdabot> | Data.Traversable sequence :: (Traversable t, Monad m) => t (m a) -> m (t a) |
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| 03:41:38 | <ukari> | hoogle.haskell.org returns 502 http error code now |
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| 04:20:52 | <beaky> | hello what is the best libray for matrices in haskell i guess its hmatrix https://github.com/Magalame/fastest-matrices |
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| 04:28:19 | <tacegory> | ⁄！＼ TⲎIS CዘANⲚEᏞ HAЅ ΜОⅤEᎠ ΤⲞ IRⅭ．ᒪІBЕᖇА．ᏟዘΑT ＃HΑMᎡADIⲞ ／﹗\ |
| 04:28:23 | <tacegory> | ⁄ⵑ﹨ ТHE ЈΕᎳЅ HΑVE TАKΕN OVΕR FRᎬЕⲚODEᛧ СHATS ᎻAVЕ MΟVEᎠ TΟ IᖇC．LIBEᎡA．CⲎΑᎢ /!\ |
| 04:28:27 | <tacegory> | ∕︕\ ЈОΙⲚ ＃HAMRAⅮΙO TOᗪΑⲨ. ΤHΙЅ CHAⲚNΕL НАᏚ MⲞⅤЕD TΟ ІᎡC．ᏞІВᎬᎡΑ.CHAT #ዘАΜRΑᎠІO ∕!\ |
| 04:28:30 | <tacegory> | ΤHIЅ ОᖴᖴІCΙAᏞLΥ EΝⅮOᎡSЕᎠ МESᏚAGE WAS ᗷᎡОUGᕼΤ TⲞ ΥОU ΒY LΙBΕRA.ᏟHAT STΑFᖴ |
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| 04:48:32 | <manicennui> | What is the point of that nonsense? |
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| 04:49:10 | <int-e> | just stirring up drama |
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| 04:59:35 | <guest63`> | import Control.Applicative hiding (many, <|>) why this is parse error? |
| 04:59:42 | <guest63`> | what's the proper way? |
| 04:59:57 | <Axman6> | stick <|> in parens |
| 05:00:08 | <Axman6> | import Control.Applicative hiding (many, (<|>)) |
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| 05:03:03 | <guest63`> | Axman6: why there're so many <|> in different modules, could Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec.<|> work on something that is for Control.Applicative.<|> |
| 05:03:26 | <guest63`> | hiding and qualified too many |
| 05:03:35 | <Axman6> | Are you sure they aren't already exactly the same thing? is one just a reexport? |
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| 05:04:10 | <stardustfp> | Now that I'm in the right place...what's the recommended first step to learning haskell? Is there a recommended book/course? I typically learn the fastest via video courses or just straight up code examples with simple explanations. |
| 05:04:14 | <Axman6> | I would be surprised if most of them aren't just Control.Applicative ((<|>)) reexported |
| 05:04:28 | <c_wraith> | the one in parser-combinators is definitely just a re-export |
| 05:04:35 | <Axman6> | Welcome stardustfp |
| 05:04:43 | <c_wraith> | clearly labeled as such: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/parser-combinators-1.3.0/docs/Control-Applicative-Combinators.html#g:1 |
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| 05:12:26 | <Axman6> | stardustfp: I'm not sure what the current recommendations are, I haven't seen any comprehensive video tutorials - learning Haskell, depending on your background, often learns unlearning habits from other languages which don't make sense here, so most books and tutorials will start from the very fundamentals, because even those will be foreign |
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| 05:30:52 | <novasenco> | https://gitlab.haskell.org 502 Error fyi |
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| 05:34:06 | <Axman6> | tput: Did you get an answer to your generalised fibonacci thing? I think all you need to do is: f k = let fk = (42 : 11*k+77 : zipWith (((+ (10*k)) .) . (-) . (*2)) (tail fk) fk) in fk |
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| 05:38:26 | <tput> | Axman6: yes. that's exactly what I needed to avoid re-evaluating f k. c_wraith helped out |
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| 05:39:55 | <tput> | in the end, the next step of my solution to the exercise I was working on (determining if a number is semiprime) is just not quite fast enough. |
| 05:40:19 | <tput> | this is the exercise: https://open.kattis.com/problems/blobsofdoom |
| 05:41:05 | <tput> | I think there's likely a cleverer solution that I'm not seeing |
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| 06:24:33 | <dmwit> | ?where tutorials -- stardustfp |
| 06:24:33 | <lambdabot> | http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Tutorials |
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| 06:27:00 | <dmwit> | guest63``: Yeah, parsec2 defined its own (<|>) before (<|>) was a thing and it's kept it for back-compatibility ever since. But it does the same thing as C.A.<|>, so you can safely hide it. |
| 06:27:53 | <dmwit> | guest63``: Also consider switching to parsec3 -- in many cases, this is as easy as just switching from `Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec[.Foo]` to `Text.Parsec[.Foo]` in all your imports. |
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| 06:28:33 | <dmwit> | ...oh, scratch that, parsec3 exports a custom <|> as well. How obnoxious. |
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| 08:01:36 | <sshine> | https://github.com/graninas/The-Voids-Of-Haskell#Clean-Functional-Code <- the first book on the imaginary list is a book that's literally on my wish list. |
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| 08:08:42 | <tdammers> | I could probably write a few of the books on that list |
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| 09:05:49 | <bartavelle> | "There are so many themes that the community is just neglecting for some reason" pretty sure the reason is that it is a huge amount of work that will not get you rich :) |
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| 09:20:20 | <maerwald> | ask HF for funding |
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| 09:41:57 | <tdammers> | there's also the "scratch an itch" thing |
| 09:42:52 | <tdammers> | those are all books that "the community" could use, but right now, the majority of working haskellers are quite experienced, and fairly capable of figuring those things out themselves, based on experiences in other languages and general exposure to programming in the trenches |
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| 09:56:36 | <a6a45081-2b83> | how can i find a function that takes Screen Id, i.e ∃a s.t. f:: ScreenId -> a |
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| 09:57:57 | <a6a45081-2b83> | "@h ScreenId -> a" hoogle queries are ∀ a f :: ScreenId -> a |
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| 10:01:22 | lambdap4 | is now known as lambdap |
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| 10:07:52 | GOD | is now known as BAD |
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| 10:09:40 | <maerwald> | are there any examples of native windows GUIs written in haskell? |
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| 10:41:59 | <hololeap> | I ran into an issue in development with HLS where it was eating up all my RAM. I narrowed down the issue to this, which causes GHC to loop endlessly: http://sprunge.us/6MV7vZ |
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| 10:43:05 | <hololeap> | UndecidableSuperClasses seems to be key to the issue |
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| 10:50:24 | <Cale> | hololeap: HasMultiFormTree ('Node '(r,o,'[]) '[]) -> HasMultiForm r o -> HasMultiFormTree (FieldTypes r o) -> HasMultiFormTree ('Node '(r,o,'[]) '[]) |
| 10:51:37 | <guest63``> | Haskell's Set, Python's Tuple, Kotlin's Pair, Scheme's Improper List, are they same thing? |
| 10:51:47 | <Cale> | no |
| 10:52:04 | <Cale> | Haskell's Set is a very different data structure |
| 10:52:04 | <guest63``> | dirrence? |
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| 10:53:11 | <river> | haskells pair (,) |
| 10:53:28 | <Cale> | Haskell's Set requires an ordering on the type of elements being stored, they must all be the same type, and there are no duplicates, i.e. it's a representation for finite setst of elements of the given type |
| 10:53:38 | <Cale> | sets* |
| 10:54:43 | <bartavelle> | guest63``: Haskell's Set is more like like Python's set(), what you are referring to seems more like Haskell's tuples? |
| 10:54:52 | <Cale> | Haskell's tuples are close to the tuples in other languages, though if you want to get technical, there's a bit of a difference because of laziness. |
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| 10:57:40 | <guest63``> | I don't know haskell has pair set and tuple... |
| 10:57:47 | <Cale> | If I have some x of type (Integer, String) for example, evaluation of x might not terminate (might be an infinite loop of some sort, or it might die with an exception), or it might evaluate as far as needed to match a pattern like (y,z), and then the evaluation of each of y and z additionally has the possibility to not terminate. |
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| 10:58:30 | <Cale> | The components of a Haskell tuple are represented at runtime as pointers to code |
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| 10:58:39 | <Cale> | (thunks) |
| 10:59:20 | <Cale> | The first time that code runs, if computes the value, and then it overwrites the pointer to point at a shorter piece of code that immediately returns the already-computed value. |
| 10:59:35 | <Cale> | (That's how lazy evaluation works) |
| 10:59:49 | <Cale> | (Or at least, it's part of it) |
| 11:05:59 | <hololeap> | Cale: Although I don't completely understand, what you wrote pointed out a loop I was already looking at, and it seems this compiles: http://sprunge.us/Kz2uTk |
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| 11:07:39 | <hololeap> | the key seems to be to make sure the top level 'r' and 'o' are not caught in HasMultiForm{Tree,Forest} |
| 11:08:47 | <hololeap> | it makes sense, although I thought that GHC would be able to figure out that (C x => C x) ~ C x |
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| 12:04:07 | tomsmeding | didn't follow the discussion but thinks that that type equality, (C x => C x) ~ C x, doesn't actually hold in GHC |
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| 12:04:33 | <tomsmeding> | seeing as contexts become dictionaries and that => turns into an actual -> in Core |
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| 12:31:21 | <boxscape> | tomsmeding there's quite a bit of weirdness when it comes to equalities like that, I submitted an issue about it a while back https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/17372 |
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| 12:31:33 | <boxscape> | i.e. using type synonyms changes whether things are equal or not |
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| 12:32:09 | <boxscape> | (though I think you're right that that particular equality never holds) |
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| 12:36:01 | <jacks2> | guest63``, python has similar syntax for creating tuples as python, ie: (1, "foo") |
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| 12:36:24 | <tomsmeding> | boxscape: ewwww |
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| 12:44:06 | <stefan-_> | :t ($ 32) |
| 12:44:07 | <lambdabot> | Num a => (a -> b) -> b |
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| 12:53:21 | <carbolymer> | is there a real difference between `MonadBaseControl IO m` and `MonadUnliftIO m`? at first glance both seem to accomplish the same |
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| 12:56:31 | <carbolymer> | oh nvm, I'm reading blogpost which has this near the end https://lexi-lambda.github.io/blog/2019/09/07/demystifying-monadbasecontrol/ |
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| 13:05:13 | carbolymer | considers yeeting away unliftio from the project and replacing it with MonadBaseControl lifting |
| 13:05:49 | <comerijn> | carbolymer: That's the wrong way around |
| 13:05:56 | <comerijn> | MonadBaseControl is nightmare fuel |
| 13:06:10 | <carbolymer> | pls explain |
| 13:06:19 | <carbolymer> | from what I see, I can achieve the same effect |
| 13:06:28 | <comerijn> | After over a decade of Haskell I don't think I (or really, anyone else) can safely use MonadBaseControl |
| 13:06:41 | <comerijn> | carbolymer: No, there are lots of things that can't be made MonadUnliftIO |
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| 13:06:59 | <comerijn> | For good reason, because their MonadBaseControl instance are insanity inducing |
| 13:08:13 | <comerijn> | For example, you cannot make StateT MonadUnliftIO, because the semantics of things like "catch" are *wildly* confusing |
| 13:09:35 | <sclv> | I fundamentally disagree |
| 13:09:49 | <sclv> | MonadUnliftIO is essentially useless to me |
| 13:10:03 | <carbolymer> | comerijn: I mean, yeah, right, I meant MonadBaseControl is more general, and one can do more with it |
| 13:10:06 | <sclv> | because iirc it only unlifts things iso to reader |
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| 13:10:51 | <sclv> | all my monad stacks are more interesting than what it lets me do |
| 13:11:08 | <boxscape> | well it's designed to work with the ReaderT pattern so that makes sense |
| 13:11:33 | <sclv> | The problem imho is that for a very long time people didn't realize that there's (basically for mathematical reasons) no way to do any sort of unlift for ContT type monads -- this is a hard barrier |
| 13:11:58 | <sclv> | so we had things that attempted to be more general than actually possible |
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| 13:12:43 | <sclv> | the right middle ground for my cases has always been unlifting for things that can be presented algebrically, since there's good tools for reasoning about those, and its formally sound |
| 13:13:37 | <sclv> | if you understand those reasoning tools, then i've found the semantics for things like catch not too confusing at all |
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| 13:30:13 | <absence> | i have an ffi call which calls back to haskell. is there any reason why calling throwTo from this callback wouldn't do anything? |
| 13:30:31 | <comerijn> | absence: What would it do? |
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| 13:31:24 | <absence> | comerijn: raise an async exception in the thread specified by the thread id i pass it |
| 13:31:36 | <comerijn> | Ah, wait, throwTo...hmm |
| 13:31:43 | <comerijn> | Good question |
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| 13:57:39 | <kuribas> | carbolymer: you throw all out, and write manual adapters :) |
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| 13:58:19 | <carbolymer> | kuribas: manual writing considered harmful |
| 13:58:21 | <kuribas> | MonadBaseControl is pure evil, MonadUnliftIO is mostly air... |
| 13:58:38 | <kuribas> | carbolymer: MonadUnliftIO doesn't give you much. |
| 13:58:51 | <merijn> | carbolymer: Manual writing is evil, but unpredictable and confusing code is eviller |
| 13:59:22 | <kuribas> | merijn: why is that evil. |
| 13:59:31 | <kuribas> | I don't mind some small amount of boilerplate code. |
| 13:59:33 | <merijn> | kuribas: Duplication, I meant |
| 13:59:39 | <kuribas> | right |
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| 15:24:59 | <tjwds> | /!\ ТНIЅ CHANⲚEⅬ HΑЅ MОVΕD ΤO IRⅭ.ᏞІBERΑ.CᎻᎪT ﹟ΗAMᎡAᗪІΟ ⁄！＼ |
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| 15:31:50 | <zfnmxt> | Is it possible to use (*) as a type operator with TypeOperators? |
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| 15:32:15 | <geekosaur> | with -XNoStarIsType, yes |
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| 15:32:27 | <zfnmxt> | Ah, I did that but just realized I forgot to rebuild =/ |
| 15:32:30 | <zfnmxt> | Thanks :P |
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| 16:15:45 | <janus> | i am looking to convert a Rational to a Scientific, with a reasonable amount of precision |
| 16:16:03 | <janus> | i could convert to integer and then from that to Scentific, but that loses more precision than i'd like |
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| 16:16:40 | <janus> | i was thinking i'd multiply with the desired after-decimal precision, convert to integer, convert to scientific, then divide, but it seems clumsy |
| 16:16:59 | <janus> | tried hoogling for Fractional a => a -> Scientific but it gives me nothing useful |
| 16:17:06 | <Taneb> | janus: you can use `fromRational`, which is in Prelude (in the Fractional class) |
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| 16:17:33 | <janus> | oooh nice, thanks Taneb |
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| 16:27:07 | <Ariakenom> | :t fromRational . toRational -- viaRational |
| 16:27:08 | <lambdabot> | (Fractional c, Real a) => a -> c |
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| 16:29:43 | <Taneb> | :t realToFrac |
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| 16:29:44 | <lambdabot> | (Real a, Fractional b) => a -> b |
| 16:29:51 | <Taneb> | Ariakenom: :) |
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| 16:30:43 | <Ariakenom> | oh that was the one that existed. but not the Integer one iirc |
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| 16:31:43 | <Taneb> | :t fromIntegral |
| 16:31:44 | <lambdabot> | (Integral a, Num b) => a -> b |
| 16:31:47 | <Taneb> | That's the Integer one |
| 16:31:54 | <Taneb> | They both exist |
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| 16:33:11 | <Ariakenom> | huh must've misremembered. thanks |
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| 17:05:10 | <maerwald> | can you force your hspecs to run with --job=1? |
| 17:05:31 | <maerwald> | regardless of what's specified at command line |
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| 17:05:59 | <maerwald> | I tried to set parallel = id, but there seems to be more than that |
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| 17:37:51 | <hololeap> | what's a good way to set a hard limit on GHC memory usage in linux? I've heard people recommend cgroups, although I have no idea how to use that particular feature |
| 17:38:32 | <[exa]> | isn't there a gc option for that? |
| 17:38:36 | <hololeap> | I don't want HLS to silently eat up all my RAM because I did something fancy and caused GHC to go into a loop |
| 17:38:58 | <hololeap> | (which is what happened to me earlier) |
| 17:39:01 | <[exa]> | ah hls |
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| 17:40:58 | <yushyin> | hololeap: man systemd-run (and man systemd.resource-control) is one interface to cgroups |
| 17:41:05 | <wz1000> | hololeap: +RTS -M |
| 17:41:14 | <maerwald> | hololeap: https://imgur.com/a/cSDRwyC like that? :> |
| 17:41:37 | <maerwald> | also comment on https://github.com/haskell/haskell-language-server/issues/499 |
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| 17:47:25 | <hololeap> | maerwald: I didn't get a chance to run top during the time, but I haven't noticed more than one instance running, so I don't think that's the problem |
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| 17:47:52 | <maerwald> | at any read, make sure to install earlyoom |
| 17:47:59 | <maerwald> | s/read/rate/ |
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| 17:49:07 | <hololeap> | I caused a loop by being foolish with UndecidableSuperClasses, which I didn't notice until my comp became unresponsive. but, once I got control back, I could verify that it was causing the compiler to spin out of control by trying to run ghci on the module. |
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| 17:50:11 | <maerwald> | haskell is living on the edge... |
| 17:50:36 | <hololeap> | maerwald: thanks for the hint about earlyroom. it seems like something I could use |
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| 17:51:02 | <tapas> | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nqcL0mjMjw |
| 17:51:24 | <maerwald> | back when I had 16gb only there was no way to use repl without it |
| 17:51:32 | <hololeap> | yushyin: thanks for the tip |
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| 17:52:04 | <hololeap> | I'm actually on 12GB right now, but the memory usage in general seems reasonable |
| 17:52:55 | <maerwald> | I'm considering to upgrade to 64 |
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| 17:53:11 | <maerwald> | when I run my windows VM on the side, memory is full |
| 17:54:11 | <hololeap> | on a related note, are there any configuration files for HLS? I haven't seen anything mentioned about them |
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| 17:56:33 | <hololeap> | for instance, where I could pass in the flags mentioned by wz1000. I keep asking in #haskell-language-server and never get a response |
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| 17:59:34 | <maerwald> | hololeap: doesn't that depend on your LSP client? |
| 17:59:38 | <wz1000> | hololeap: depends on your client. |
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| 18:03:21 | <hololeap> | my client has very minimal LSP support. as far as I can tell, it just lets you configure the command and arguments that are run, and then it gives basic error highlighting and LSP messages |
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| 18:03:46 | <hololeap> | Right now, it's configured to run `haskell-language-server-wrapper --lsp` |
| 18:03:58 | <tomsmeding> | hololeap: what's the client? |
| 18:04:02 | <hololeap> | kate |
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| 18:07:01 | <hololeap> | maerwald: earlyoom is now installed and set to start on boot. Cool, now I shouldn't have to mash Alt+SysRq+F anymore |
| 18:07:45 | <maerwald> | hololeap: make sure to disable swap |
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| 18:07:58 | <maerwald> | or... there's an option for earlyoom to ignore swap or sth |
| 18:08:02 | <maerwald> | but I just disable it |
| 18:08:36 | <hololeap> | I have a small swap, 1.5GB just for caching long-running processes or whatever |
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| 18:09:00 | <hololeap> | but I can just disable it if it's going to interfere with earlyoom |
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| 18:10:30 | <maerwald> | https://github.com/rfjakob/earlyoom#command-line-options |
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| 18:11:28 | <maerwald> | I had a swap on a slow HDD... so I wouldn't get OOM, but linux kernel locking the PC for 15 minutes due to IO/register race |
| 18:11:51 | <maerwald> | (windows kernel has better swap behavior) |
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| 18:13:24 | <Sose> | I'm on a laptop with 4GB memory and HLS + separate GHCI can definitely but a strain on it :D.. but surprisingly still usable |
| 18:13:31 | <Sose> | *put |
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| 18:13:50 | <maerwald> | that's not living on the edge, but in the abyss |
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| 18:24:35 | <tomsmeding> | maerwald: https://github.com/facebookincubator/oomd/blob/master/docs/production_setup.md#swap |
| 18:24:39 | <tomsmeding> | (different daemon) |
| 18:25:13 | <tomsmeding> | given that earlyoom makes no such recommendation, I conclude that earlyoom is better software |
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| 18:26:09 | <maerwald> | tomsmeding: yes, it doesn't need swap and you can tell it the kill thresholds for both memory and swap |
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| 18:26:49 | <tomsmeding> | doesn't that paragraph I linked horrify you |
| 18:27:28 | <tomsmeding> | "this software is a hack by design that may or may not work" |
| 18:27:32 | <maerwald> | I think I've seen a lot of weird stuff in software |
| 18:28:12 | <maerwald> | swap is really useless on linux |
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| 18:28:54 | <maerwald> | I haven't bothered to read Linus excuses about it. They're probably similar like his security excuses :> |
| 18:33:32 | <meejah> | i haven't run swap in a decade. I prefer the failure mode of "oom kills firefox" rather than "computer is very slow now" .. maybe this earlyoom thing is better ;) |
| 18:33:53 | <maerwald> | yep, it's faster |
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| 18:35:05 | <yushyin> | https://chrisdown.name/2018/01/02/in-defence-of-swap.html here are some excuses |
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| 18:37:17 | <bramhaag> | I'm trying to write an evaluator for a custom language in Haskell, does anyone have any good resources I can take some inspiration from? |
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| 18:42:07 | <[exa]> | bramhaag: how advanced you want the evaluator? just an interpreter? |
| 18:42:23 | <[exa]> | bramhaag: also, does the language have a haskell-style AST? |
| 18:42:37 | <bramhaag> | I've defined the language using type classes |
| 18:42:57 | <[exa]> | there's many ways to do it with type classes in fact |
| 18:42:59 | <bramhaag> | The language itself is a dumbed down version of Haskell with slightly different syntax, it supports partial application and HOF |
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| 18:43:36 | <bramhaag> | This is a homework exercise, so some things are banned (Most notably monads and GHC extensions) |
| 18:43:47 | <[exa]> | ah okay good, so you have "definitions" that may be "applied" etc |
| 18:44:44 | <bramhaag> | Exactly, an example of the language would be this https://paste.tomsmeding.com/4z5vhM6J |
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| 18:45:07 | <bramhaag> | I've implemented a basic eval function, but adding support for partial application and HOFs is rather painful with this implementation |
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| 18:45:45 | <[exa]> | bramhaag: for partial application you might just need the correct abstraction (or "object") that represents it |
| 18:46:04 | <[exa]> | the usual way is to have "a function call with N holes for arguments that are still missing" |
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| 18:47:46 | <[exa]> | also feel free to show the eval here |
| 18:49:36 | <bramhaag> | I'm afraid my university wouldn't like that |
| 18:50:05 | <bramhaag> | another object to represent partial application is a good idea though, currently I've implemented it with the same object I use to represent regular funcalls and that's a bit of a mess |
| 18:50:29 | <[exa]> | yeah, you literally want to fold logic here in the data |
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| 18:51:05 | <[exa]> | re university, I'd love if my students sometimes discussed the code with others before submitting :D |
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| 18:51:54 | <[exa]> | like, copypasting is bad but avoiding various preventable pitfalls is much more important I guess |
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| 18:52:39 | <bramhaag> | My current approach consists of two functions basically: bind which "binds" user-specified values to variables, and reduce which tries to simplify expressions into a constant value (using the bind function when needed) |
| 18:52:40 | <[exa]> | anyway, this "partially applied function" is also how haskell gets evaluated (you might google closures, thunks and similar things) |
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| 18:53:02 | <[exa]> | ah so you have a partial evaluator |
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| 18:55:16 | <[exa]> | that's good for some things but if you're after "just a normal evaluation", you generally want a single-layer function, something which takes the current bindings + AST, and outputs values |
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| 18:56:05 | <[exa]> | in this view, the partially applied functions make nice values (also, remember to avoid using variable names in there) |
| 18:56:27 | Rembane | waves the DeBruijn flag |
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| 18:57:25 | <[exa]> | not debruijn indexes per se, just to avoid the result referring to a scope value that might disappear |
| 18:58:02 | <Rembane> | That's true |
| 18:58:37 | <[exa]> | (otoh a bit of DeBruijn never hurts. :D) |
| 18:58:45 | <bramhaag> | In this language you cannot assign variables, so the only variables in scope are the current function's parameters |
| 18:58:49 | <bramhaag> | that hopefully simplifies things a little |
| 18:59:12 | <Rembane> | [exa]: Exactly! :D |
| 18:59:38 | <[exa]> | I wanted to avoid a situation where you evaluator refers a reference to a variable like "take the value of X here" for an X that only existed in the function, or was shadowed there |
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| 19:00:00 | <[exa]> | drawing a thick line between scope and values helps it a lot |
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| 19:00:37 | <[exa]> | s/refers/returns/ |
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| 19:00:52 | <bramhaag> | Yeah makes sense, I'll try the single-layer approach, tyvm! |
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| 19:02:22 | <[exa]> | btw there might be a pitfall or two in handling the partially-applied functions that I didn't realize now, but hopefully nothing harsh |
| 19:03:02 | <bramhaag> | oh there always are pitfalls |
| 19:03:20 | <bramhaag> | but it'll be *fiiiineee* |
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| 20:46:41 | <kw> | TypeRep gives a concrete representation of a type's representation, but is there a way to get a concrete representation of the type itself with Typeable? |
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| 20:48:11 | <kw> | For example, I think `()` and `newtype Foo = Foo ()` have the same TypeRep, but is there a value-level representation that distinguishes them? |
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| 20:52:36 | <adamse> | kw: looks like not the same typerep https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/tW741w61/ |
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| 20:54:36 | <kw> | adamse: Wow, I'm dumb. Thanks! |
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| 20:55:36 | <adamse> | kw: they would both have the same concrete representation when compiled, maybe that's what you were thinking of? |
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| 20:56:54 | <kw> | adamse: I was just assuming that TypeRep gave the concrete, compiled representation rather than a representation of the full tagged type. |
| 20:58:18 | <adamse> | I wonder if there is a way of getting the RuntimeRep for a type |
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| 21:00:52 | <kw> | adamese: That would be neat, although I have trouble imagining a use case outside of dispatching to optimized paths for known representations, which seems kind of kludgy... |
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| 21:01:41 | <kw> | adamse: Might be nice for figuring out that your numeric type is only 32 bit, but we already have FiniteBits for that. |
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| 21:03:01 | <adamse> | yeah, might not be the most useful thing |
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All times are in UTC on 2021-06-03.