Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2021-06-05 (liberachat/#haskell)

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00:40:59 <arahael> Do we have a good library that can, for the english locale only, convert ISO 8601 dates to something like "15th June"? (Discarding the year)
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00:43:56 <arahael> Well, I'd settle with "appropriate" suffixes for a number, eg, 3 -> "3rd", and 15 -> "15th", I suppose I could code that myself, there's only 10 possible digits anyway...
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00:46:30 <geekosaur> that's the one part that's missing from the time library (otherwise what you asked for is format "%e %B")
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00:52:57 <arahael> So what's the "simplest" way to do this in haskell?
00:53:04 <arahael> Code my own routine, or?
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01:04:17 <geekosaur> I'd just code it up myself over the output of the standard date formatting stuff
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01:09:26 <arahael> pragmatic :)
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04:30:59 <guest65> how to do sleep or delay in async?
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04:31:31 <guest65> Control.Cocurrent.Async
04:34:03 <glguy> There isn't an async specific way
04:34:11 <glguy> You can use Control.Concurrent.threadDelay
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05:24:29 <guest65> could ghc run on debian 10 on arm?
05:24:57 <guest65> I see there's only a version available on debian 9
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05:25:14 <guest65> llvm9 is specified
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06:44:36 <kluk> Hi all. I am having a hard time getting started using a resizable array. I tried vector, I did cabal install vector, I go to ghci, I do import Data.Vector, it doesn't work - what am I missing?
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06:49:35 <pavonia> kluk: Define "doesn't work"
06:49:58 <kluk> pavonia : "Could not find module ‘Data.Vector.Mutable’"
06:50:42 <pavonia> The cabal compilation was without errors?
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06:52:59 <kluk> pavonia : ah, I was missing "cabal install --lib vector". Thanks!
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07:16:00 <[exa]> is there any good tool for generating static sites where the input is more like "generated" than sourced from *.md files lying around?
07:16:42 <maerwald> like an actual DSL?
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07:18:02 <[exa]> not really sure
07:18:25 <[exa]> I've got a bunch of functions to document, each with variants, these will likely be specified in some very concise machine-friendly format
07:18:46 <[exa]> I need to expand that to pages for each variant of the functions + reasonable crosslinks and preferably an index
07:20:25 <[exa]> (side story: I even tried sphinx for rendering because "community standard" right, but it died with "error: popping from empty list" or something when I tried to reference a function. So I erased it again as it should be)
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07:23:27 <[exa]> What I wanted to avoid is making sure that the links and paths and everything is allright manually
07:23:53 <[exa]> kinda guessing that I could hack this into hakyll or some other existing generator but there's no howto going in that direction
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07:32:18 [exa] eyes `slick`
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08:17:26 <sm[m]> [exa], maybe Shake + (blaze-html or lucid)
08:18:10 <sm[m]> also, for rendering md files I can recommend mdbook as a simpler sphinx
08:23:15 <[exa]> yeah I found slick which is basically shake + some template renderer
08:23:31 <[exa]> kinda expecting I'll just factor out slick to end up with shake+something
08:23:43 <[exa]> (likely pandoc and ginger)
08:25:00 <[exa]> mdbook look cool thanks
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08:54:58 <sm[m]> perhaps just enough custom code to generate your reference markdown, then mdbook to render all nicely, do the link checking etc.
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08:57:34 <sm[m]> or will it be less work to write it all yourself to do just what you need ? tough call
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09:51:33 <[exa]> sm[m]: yeah, tough. I'm staying with shake it seems, I might need to generate more stuff and that does it just right
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12:24:49 <boxscape> % sizeOf 0
12:24:49 <yahb> boxscape: 8
12:25:02 <boxscape> I'm quite surprised that ghc is able to figure out that this is supposed to be Int
12:25:12 <boxscape> rather than saying "ambiguous type variable"
12:26:32 <boxscape> If there's a Storable instance for Integer, it chooses that instead
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12:46:29 <Xnuk> >> unwords ["Hello", "world"]
12:46:35 <Xnuk> > unwords ["Hello", "world"]
12:46:36 <lambdabot> "Hello world"
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12:49:05 <malvo> > let hi = hi in hi
12:49:07 <lambdabot> *Exception: <<loop>>
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12:49:33 <malvo> that's too bad
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12:53:05 <Xnuk> Can I expect no more spams in this server?
12:53:30 <malvo> yes, sorry
12:53:51 <malvo> just wanted to know what would happen ._.
12:53:54 <boxscape> malvo not sure that was referring to you
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12:54:37 <Xnuk> yes I'm not referring you
12:54:40 <Xnuk> sorry
12:54:43 <malvo> ah ok
12:54:43 <boxscape> malvo in any case, a quick lambdabot query is not unusual for this channel, though fwiw, if you want to, you can ask lambdabot things privately by using /query lambdabot
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12:55:31 <malvo> good to know, thanks!
12:55:39 <boxscape> Xnuk I haven't gotten any spam in DMs, I saw one spam message in this channel a couple of days ago, though generally ops are pretty quick
12:56:10 <Xnuk> thats good
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13:06:40 <stefan-_> when writing an aeson json object, the fields are in a different order than specified, is there a workaround or a good alternative to aeson?
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13:12:25 <Xnuk> JSON spec doesn't covers object fields' order, do you mean orders in Haskell's data type?
13:13:50 <stefan-_> Xnuk, i mean the object field order, when the aeson Object is encoded to json text
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13:17:17 <boxscape> stefan-_ it's apparently highly recommended to do things in ways that ensure that object field order does not matter, see https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4515676/keep-the-order-of-the-json-keys-during-json-conversion-to-csv/4515863#4515863
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13:27:02 <Xnuk> Or you could override ToJSON#toEncoding, with some good luck https://hackage.haskell.org/package/aeson-1.5.6.0/docs/Data-Aeson-Types.html#v:toEncoding
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13:43:28 <stefan-_> Xnuk, boxscape, thanks
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13:53:21 <boxscape> % class A a where test :: a -> ()
13:53:21 <yahb> boxscape:
13:53:23 <boxscape> % instance A a where test = const ()
13:53:23 <yahb> boxscape:
13:53:25 <boxscape> % test 45
13:53:26 <yahb> boxscape: ()
13:53:29 <boxscape> errr
13:53:33 <boxscape> % instance A Int where test = const ()
13:53:33 <yahb> boxscape:
13:53:35 <boxscape> % test 45
13:53:35 <yahb> boxscape: ()
13:53:37 <boxscape> dammit
13:53:50 <boxscape> I must have messed up because I expected to get an ambiguous type variable error
13:54:06 <boxscape> and was going to ask why it doesn't happen with sizeOf 45
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13:55:08 <boxscape> % class A a where test :: a -> () -- need to redefine the class to get rid of the first instance
13:55:08 <yahb> boxscape:
13:55:13 <boxscape> % instance A Int where test = const ()
13:55:13 <yahb> boxscape:
13:55:16 <boxscape> % test 45
13:55:16 <yahb> boxscape: ; <interactive>:31:1: error:; * Ambiguous type variable `a0' arising from a use of `test'; prevents the constraint `(A a0)' from being solved.; Probable fix: use a type annotation to specify what `a0' should be.; These potential instance exist:; instance [safe] A Int -- Defined at <interactive>:30:10; * In the expression: test 45; In an equation for `it': it = test
13:55:39 <boxscape> % sizeOf 45 -- so, uh, yeah, why don't I get that error message here?
13:55:39 <yahb> boxscape: 8
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14:03:50 <janus> maybe it is something lambdabot specific?
14:04:11 <boxscape> janus no, it happens in ghci as well
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14:09:38 <ski> % test (45 :: Int)
14:09:38 <yahb> ski: ()
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14:10:32 <ski> % instance A Integer where test !_ = ()
14:10:32 <yahb> ski:
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14:10:46 <ski> % test (undefined :: Int)
14:10:46 <yahb> ski: ()
14:10:51 <ski> % test (undefined :: Integer)
14:10:51 <yahb> ski: *** Exception: Prelude.undefined; CallStack (from HasCallStack):; error, called at libraries/base/GHC/Err.hs:75:14 in base:GHC.Err; undefined, called at <interactive>:37:7 in interactive:Ghci33
14:11:07 <boxscape> % test 45
14:11:07 <yahb> boxscape: ()
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14:11:27 <ski> well, in this case, i suppose it defaults to `Integer'
14:11:36 <boxscape> yeah
14:12:16 <ski> % class A a where {test :: a -> ()}; instance A Int where {test = const ()}; instance A Bool where {test !_ = ()}
14:12:17 <yahb> ski:
14:12:22 <ski> % test 45
14:12:22 <yahb> ski: ; <interactive>:40:1: error:; * Ambiguous type variable `a0' arising from a use of `test'; prevents the constraint `(A a0)' from being solved.; Probable fix: use a type annotation to specify what `a0' should be.; These potential instances exist:; instance [safe] A Bool -- Defined at <interactive>:39:85; instance [safe] A Int -- Defined at <interactive>:39:45; * In
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14:13:07 <ski> satisfied ?
14:13:36 <boxscape> ski erm, I'm still not sure why I don't get that error message with sizeOf
14:13:47 <boxscape> % sizeOf (45 :: Integer)
14:13:47 <yahb> boxscape: ; <interactive>:41:1: error:; * No instance for (Storable Integer) arising from a use of `sizeOf'; * In the expression: sizeOf (45 :: Integer); In an equation for `it': it = sizeOf (45 :: Integer)
14:13:57 <boxscape> it's not defaulting to Integer, in that case, so..
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14:14:24 <geekosaur> defaulting to Double?
14:15:00 <janus> % sizeOf (45 :: _)
14:15:00 <yahb> janus: ; <interactive>:42:15: error:; * Found type wildcard `_' standing for `Double'; To use the inferred type, enable PartialTypeSignatures; * In an expression type signature: _; In the first argument of `sizeOf', namely `(45 :: _)'; In the expression: sizeOf (45 :: _); * Relevant bindings include it :: Int (bound at <interactive>:42:1)
14:15:08 <geekosaur> and ExtendedDefaultRules so it applies this to Storable instead of just the builtin ones
14:15:08 <boxscape> ahh, okay
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14:15:23 <geekosaur> (iirc)
14:15:38 <boxscape> % :set -XNoExtendedDefaultRules
14:15:38 <yahb> boxscape:
14:15:45 <boxscape> % sizeOf (45 :: _)
14:15:45 <yahb> boxscape: ; <interactive>:45:1: error:; * Ambiguous type variable `a0' arising from a use of `sizeOf'; prevents the constraint `(Storable a0)' from being solved.; Probable fix: use a type annotation to specify what `a0' should be.; These potential instances exist:; instance Storable a => Storable (Complex a) -- Defined in `Data.Complex'; instance forall a k (b :: k). Storable
14:15:53 <boxscape> yep, thanks geekosaur
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14:17:58 <safinaskar> is there some guide "how to design good haskell APIs"?
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14:20:28 <janus> % default (Int)
14:20:28 <yahb> janus:
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14:20:33 <janus> % sizeOf (45 :: _)
14:20:33 <yahb> janus: ; <interactive>:48:1: error:; * Ambiguous type variable `a0' arising from a use of `sizeOf'; prevents the constraint `(Storable a0)' from being solved.; Probable fix: use a type annotation to specify what `a0' should be.; These potential instances exist:; instance Storable a => Storable (Complex a) -- Defined in `Data.Complex'; instance forall a k (b :: k). Storable
14:20:56 <janus> % :set -XExtendedDefaultRules
14:20:56 <yahb> janus:
14:20:59 <janus> % sizeOf (45 :: _)
14:20:59 <yahb> janus: ; <interactive>:50:15: error:; * Found type wildcard `_' standing for `Int'; To use the inferred type, enable PartialTypeSignatures; * In an expression type signature: _; In the first argument of `sizeOf', namely `(45 :: _)'; In the expression: sizeOf (45 :: _); * Relevant bindings include it :: Int (bound at <interactive>:50:1)
14:21:14 <janus> oooh i did not know this default syntax :O
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14:22:11 <janus> safinaskar: i think Graninas has written a book that claims to answer this question. But there are varied opinions about it ;)
14:22:39 <janus> % default _
14:22:39 <yahb> janus: ; <interactive>:51:9: error: parse error on input `_'
14:23:03 <boxscape> huh why does the _ in sizeOf (45 :: _) now stand for Int when it stood for double a few lines before that
14:23:15 <boxscape> oh
14:23:20 <boxscape> because you typed default (Int)
14:23:27 <janus> right, i am a hax0r
14:23:31 <boxscape> :)
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14:25:11 <safinaskar> janus: thanks
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14:35:55 <boxscape> % class A a where {test :: a -> ()}; instance A Int where {test = const ()}
14:35:55 <yahb> boxscape:
14:35:56 <boxscape> % test 45
14:35:56 <yahb> boxscape: ; <interactive>:6:1: error:; * Ambiguous type variable `a0' arising from a use of `test'; prevents the constraint `(A a0)' from being solved.; Probable fix: use a type annotation to specify what `a0' should be.; These potential instance exist:; instance [safe] A Int -- Defined at <interactive>:5:45; * In the expression: test 45; In an equation for `it': it = test 45
14:35:58 <boxscape> % class A a where {test :: a -> ()}; instance A Int where {test = const ()}; instance A Double where {test = const ()}
14:35:58 <yahb> boxscape:
14:36:00 <boxscape> % test 45
14:36:00 <yahb> boxscape: ()
14:36:10 <boxscape> it does seem strange to me that adding an instance makes things *less* ambiguous
14:36:13 <boxscape> but I guess I can accept it
14:36:49 <geekosaur> defaulting's a bit odd
14:37:13 <geekosaur> the list of classes that can be defaulted through without ExtendedDefaultRules is also a bit arbitrary
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14:39:06 <boxscape> yeah, Num or any subclass of Num that's "defined in the Prelude or a standard library"
14:39:32 <janus> standard library is more than just base?
14:39:42 <boxscape> who knows, they don't say
14:39:50 <boxscape> in the report, on that page
14:41:00 <janus> ah, then it probably refers to the Haskell 2010 libraries : https://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/haskell2010/haskellpa2.html
14:41:07 <boxscape> ah, right
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15:17:13 <systemfault> It may be obvious... but was wondering: Can monoids always be combined in parallel?
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15:18:29 <[exa]> systemfault: semigroups should guarantee that (a<>b)<>(c<>d) == a<>(b<>(c<>d)) right?
15:18:40 <systemfault> Yeah, I believe so
15:18:50 <[exa]> because lawful ones should be associative
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15:20:59 <sshine> systemfault, associativity should ensure that, yes
15:21:26 <sshine> systemfault, so lawful Monoids :)
15:21:35 <systemfault> Great :) Thank you
15:22:12 <sshine> but does (==) guarantee structural equivalence?
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15:23:01 <sshine> e.g. I can think of certain caching data structures that may result in different non-normalized representations of the same value, but still yield equivalent... that's the only corner case I can think of.
15:23:26 <systemfault> I'm glad that it's not an issue in my current case
15:25:16 <ski> "but does (==) guarantee structural equivalence?" -- do you mean that internal representation is structurally the same ?
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15:26:14 <boxscape> note that the law in the Semigroup documentation doesn't mention (==), it says the law is "x <> (y <> z) = (x <> y) <> z"
15:26:22 <boxscape> I guess it's a bit ambiguous what exactly = means here
15:26:47 <monochrom> Data.Set.Set (==) does not use structural equivalence.
15:26:49 <ski> observational equivalence, i suppose ?
15:26:58 <[exa]> "preferably nothing very specific"
15:27:10 <boxscape> ski i.e. equivalent wrt all functions exposed in the API for that type?
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15:27:43 <monochrom> "=" is mathematical equality.
15:27:59 <boxscape> monochrom that's still ambiguous :P
15:28:21 <monochrom> I think it is actually beneficial to leave it open.
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15:29:27 <boxscape> Idris has VerifiedSemigroup which uses structural equality IIUC
15:29:42 <boxscape> but also has a non-verified Semigroup interface
15:29:47 <monochrom> With Data.Set.Set you can refine it to "same elements" or API-observational equality or anything that makes mathematical sense for the intended use cases of Data.Set and it's OK.
15:29:53 <boxscape> er, I think, anyway
15:30:59 <ski> i suppose Idris doesn't have quotient types (?)
15:30:59 <monochrom> With IO's "return x >>= f = f x" you either need a formal semantics of IO to define "=" or you accept that it is left informal and just say "behaviourial equality".
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15:32:47 <boxscape> ski I believe that's right
15:32:52 <ski> something like `observeRepresentation :: Set a -> IO (SetRepresentation a)' would still be okay, imho (although presumably of little use, in this specific case)
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15:37:26 <ski> .. i wonder how much sense it would make to have a monad `Indet', used to model multiple possible representations
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15:39:21 <ski> so you would have `newtype Set a = MkSet (Indet (SetRepresentation a))', possibly, with `promiseEquivalentSolutions :: (Indet a -> b) -> (a -> b)'
15:40:59 <ski> a value of type `Indet a' represents a non-empty set of `a's, where the implementation actually with just pick one element to compute. there'd also be `chooseIndet :: Indet a -> IO a'
15:41:25 <ski> s/with just/will just/
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15:43:01 <ski> (i wonder if there'd be any "interesting" interactions with nonstrictness)
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15:46:49 <junkicide> is there some value x in haskell such that x:l == l for any list l?
15:47:12 <geekosaur> no
15:47:30 <ski> a list could always be empty
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15:48:05 <janus> sounds like a homework question ;)
15:48:07 <ski> (and `x:l' is never empty)
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15:49:09 <monochrom> I don't know whether you mean "(there is x such that ...) for any l" or "there is x such that (... for any l)".
15:49:40 <junkicide> lol janus it's not a homework question, i thought something like that could be useful for a program i'm trying to write
15:50:01 <boxscape> ski: or is it :P https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/19917
15:50:17 <boxscape> ski to be fair that's an optimization that makes it appear empty, it's not actually
15:50:50 <monochrom> An error message that says "OK" :)
15:51:11 <monochrom> A fire situation that says "this is fine" :)
15:51:16 <boxscape> hah
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15:51:45 <[exa]> one loud way to report success. :D
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16:03:02 <janus> junkicide: but if you know that List defines its own Eq instance and that (:) is the list constructor, then it can't be true... i just thought knowing that is very basic
16:03:18 <janus> maybe i am missing some subtlety of your question
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16:38:17 <arjun> am i missing something with documentation of hackage packages ? : P
16:38:36 <arjun> by missing i mean, i really can't find any documentation : P
16:39:20 <c_wraith> what package?
16:39:29 <geekosaur> anything dependent on a C library only has documentation if it's been uploaded, for one
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16:41:01 <arjun> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/filepath ?
16:41:52 <c_wraith> Docs look pretty good to me
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16:42:16 <c_wraith> The primary entry point to the documentation is the "Modules" section
16:42:27 <geekosaur> looks documented to me, with the caveat that the top level module just reexports the platform version and therefore just has an indirection
16:43:13 <c_wraith> and even that re-export behavior is documented on the top-level page
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16:45:25 <arjun> c_wraith: do i click the index button there?
16:45:50 <arjun> i am mostly looking for what types it has, what functions it has and how do i use those functions?
16:45:53 <c_wraith> that will give you the index. that's great for finding stuff, but not the primary docs
16:45:58 <c_wraith> click on a module name
16:46:33 <arjun> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/filepath-1.4.2.1/docs/System-FilePath.html
16:46:49 <arjun> looks like a re-export. so i clicked again
16:47:01 <arjun> got me here:- https://hackage.haskell.org/package/filepath-1.4.2.1/docs/System-FilePath-Posix.html
16:47:04 <c_wraith> the second sentence on that page is "Both System.FilePath.Posix and System.FilePath.Windows provide the same interface. See either for examples and a list of the available functions"
16:47:25 <c_wraith> Like, as far as documentation goes, I'd say that's really important information
16:47:25 <arjun> c_wraith: yea, i caught that
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16:53:19 <Hanicef> is it common to use `do` a lot when writing IO-heavy code?
16:53:27 <c_wraith> yes
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16:53:46 <Hanicef> ok, that's reassuring to hear
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16:54:54 <maerwald> I >>= only >>= use >>= monad >>= bind
16:55:03 <maerwald> because >>= it's >>= more >>= readable
16:55:06 <yushyin> the alternative would be to use a lot of >>= and hardly anyone wants to do that, right?
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16:55:15 <yushyin> ok maerwald wants to :D
16:55:35 <maerwald> yushyin: I have key macros for >>= and =<< :p
16:55:39 <maerwald> so I don't mind
16:56:03 <Hanicef> yushyin: yeah, that's what i was worried about; it's useful at times, but when there are +8 functions chained together and not always taking the result as the last argument, it becomes kinda messy and not very readable
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17:00:08 <motte> hi, how can i join two aeson arrays together? the arrays are non-homogeneous, thus i can't just join them together before calling toJSON
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17:18:00 <boxscape> motte what are the types before you convert it to JSON?
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17:21:46 <motte> [Tree a], and [b], where a and b are my own defined data types
17:22:50 <motte> paste: http://ix.io/3oRf
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17:23:27 <motte> essentially i'd like to do "children" .= children ++ targets
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17:24:06 <boxscape> motte I'm not sure if this is the best way, but you could make a type `data HasJSON = forall a . HasJSON (ToJSON a => a)`, write `map HasJSON xs ++ HasJSON ys`, then you just need to make a ToJSON instance for this type that uses the ToJSON instance of a
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17:25:19 <motte> thanks, i'll try it out
17:25:50 <ski> boxscape : did you mean `data HasJSON = forall a. ToJSON a => HasJSON a' ?
17:26:15 <boxscape> ski erm, yes, I suppose I did
17:26:19 <boxscape> ^ motte
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17:30:06 <ski> i guess if one wanted `FromJSON HasJSON' too, that'd be harder
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17:31:10 <motte> yeah i thought of it a little bit and i think i need FromJSON too, so maybe i'll just try to make the types homogeneous
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17:34:20 <ski> could the JSON representation of a tree look the same as the one for a target ?
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17:38:47 <ski> i guess maybe you could make a `data TreeOrTarget = FromTree (Tree GroupWithTargets) | From Target', and make `ToJSON' and `FromJSON' instances for that, then in `FromJSON (Tree GroupWithTargets)' you could grab a `[TreeOrTarget]', and then split that into `([Tree GroupWithTargets],[Target])'
17:41:24 <arjun> can i make an absolute path from a relative FilePath like sourcePath = "../source/contents/"
17:41:42 <arjun> how can i *
17:42:09 <monochrom> If you also know the current working directory, you can compute it, or just do concatenation.
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17:42:24 <arjun> System.Directory (makeAblsoulte) introduces a ".." in the path
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17:42:58 <monochrom> probably because the author just does concatenation. I mean why bother.
17:43:04 <arjun> monochrom: it's outside my currentDir. but sure, i can get my cd
17:44:16 <arjun> like i have to go a level up and 2 levels down
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17:48:57 <arjun> monochrom: nvm, found it.
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17:54:32 <safinaskar> consider this code: do { c <- lookup a b; lookup d c }. is this possible to write it similar to this: lookup d <<lookup a b>>. Here << >> are hypotetical brackets, which will simplify writing monadic code. Maybe such brackets already exists? Maybe arrow bananas are exactly such brackets?!
17:55:08 <ski> lookup d =<< lookup a b
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17:55:52 <safinaskar> ski: yes, but what to do in more complicated cases? i will provide example
17:56:14 <safinaskar> let's assume safeDiv is safe division with type Int -> Int -> Maybe Int
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17:56:42 <ski> i have a (vaporware) syntax (with type system rules, and translation rules), including such brackets
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17:56:55 <safinaskar> now consider this: do { x <- (a + b) `safeDiv` (c + d); x * y + z `safeDiv` 2; }
17:57:22 <boxscape> vaporwave syntax?
17:57:40 <boxscape> oh wait
17:57:44 <boxscape> I misread, lol
17:57:51 ski glances around nervously
17:58:07 <boxscape> funnily I was thinking "there is a word that sounds similar that would fit here, but I can't think of it"
17:58:17 <monochrom> haha
17:58:46 <safinaskar> are arrow bananas (| ... |) ( https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/8.10.2/docs/html/users_guide/glasgow_exts.html#arrow-notation ) what i need?!
17:58:53 <c_wraith> now I want syntax with lots of neon pink and blue
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18:00:15 <justsomeguy> I want syntax highlighting that makes parenthesis taller when they enclose another pair of parenthesis.
18:00:57 <justsomeguy> Sorry, that was random.
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18:01:40 <monochrom> No, that's a natural desire.
18:02:01 <monochrom> Random would be "I want parenthesis height to be random" :D
18:02:10 <justsomeguy> :D
18:02:54 <mrmonday> the kerning should be just a little bit different at each level
18:03:09 <monochrom> Well, I wouldn't hold my breath for it. You can't even talk programmers out of fixed-width fonts, so nevermind variable heights.
18:03:29 <safinaskar> ski: please, show that your software
18:05:39 <ski> ⌜ ⟨ ⌞ (a + b) `safeDiv` (c + d) ⌟ * y + z `safeDiv` 2 ⟩ ⌝
18:05:59 <ski> alternatively
18:06:20 <ski> ⌜ ⟨ ⟨ (a + b) `safeDiv` (c + d) ⟩ * y + z `safeDiv` 2 ⟩ ⌝
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18:07:26 <ski> (innermost unquotes can be replaced by "splices")
18:07:56 <safinaskar> ski: does actual tool exist, which accept such syntax?
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18:10:19 <ski> no (see "vaporware")
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18:14:58 <safinaskar> ski: ok :(
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18:33:54 <ski> (and i'm pretty sure those banana brackets are entirely unrelated to what you wanted)
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18:49:32 <Guest33> Hi guys, I'm stuck with a problem and I need some help if anyone can give me some direction.
18:50:22 <Guest33> How would I remove the 1 in [1,2] from the following [(Node {getNodeID = 0, getNodeVal = 'A'},[1,2]),(Node {getNodeID = 2, getNodeVal = 'C'},[1,2])]
18:50:50 <Guest33> and return the modified list
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18:51:31 <boxscape> i.e, remove it in both elements and get [(Node {getNodeID = 0, getNodeVal = 'A'},[1]),(Node {getNodeID = 2, getNodeVal = 'C'},[1])]?
18:51:39 <boxscape> err
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18:51:48 <boxscape> [(Node {getNodeID = 0, getNodeVal = 'A'},[2]),(Node {getNodeID = 2, getNodeVal = 'C'},[2])]?
18:51:51 <boxscape> is that the goal?
18:51:55 <Guest33> no get [2] ya
18:52:05 <boxscape> are you familiar with fmap?
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18:52:37 <Guest33> I was playing around with it but it keeps giving me [[2]] instead of the modified list (sorry i'm very new to this)
18:53:25 <boxscape> do you remember what you were writing that gave [[2]]?
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18:55:00 <Guest33> my bad that was for another function where I was inserting an edge.
18:55:10 <Guest33> fmap (\x -> snd(x) ++ [3]) (filter (\n -> getNodeID (fst (n)) == 0 ) exGraph)
18:55:18 <Guest33> gives [[1,2,3]]
18:55:36 <Guest33> but I want [(Node {getNodeID = 0, getNodeVal = 'A'},[1,2,3]),(Node {getNodeID = 2, getNodeVal = 'C'},[1])]
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18:56:32 <Guest33> I guess if I can figure out any one of them I can get both :D
18:56:42 <boxscape> hm so you want to append 3 to the list in the first element of the outer list and remove the 2 from the second one?
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18:57:29 <Guest33> just append 3 to the list in the first element is fine for now
18:57:43 <boxscape> will the outer list always have two elements?
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18:59:11 <Guest33> no it can change vary but (filter (\n -> getNodeID (fst (n)) == 0 ) exGraph) .. the == 0 make sure I choose the element with nodeID = 0in the outer list
18:59:42 <boxscape> ah, hm
19:00:57 <_73> I am trying to figure out how to express a typeclass for memory. I have different Memory types that are essentially data structures holding key value pairs that I read and write. I am trying to figure out how to abstract out this pattern. I am thinking that multi-param-typeclasses would be useful. The reason I thought to use multi-param-typeclasses is that they could allow me to restrict the type of the arguments to the typeclass
19:00:57 <_73> functions so they allign with the types of the keys and values. I would like help trying to figure what it is that I need here: http://dpaste.com/CKN26MCE3
19:01:08 <boxscape> you can map over the list and inside the map function make sure you only change the element that is 0, i.e. `map (\(Node id val, xs)-> Node id (if id /= 0 then val else <a modified version of xs>))`, Guest33
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19:01:36 <boxscape> er, that should be `if id /= 0 then xs else <a modified version of xs>`
19:01:36 <Guest33> Let me try. Thank you in advance!!
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19:02:09 <_73> I am starting to realize that my memory types, (like MyMemory) are really just type aliases. Does this suggest I could abstract my types further somehow?
19:04:02 <boxscape> Guest33 actually I still got it wrong: map (\(Node id val, xs)-> (Node id val, (if id /= 0 then val else <a modified version of xs>)))
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19:04:26 <boxscape> nope, now I forgot to apply the first correction, the `val` in the if should be `id` :)
19:04:38 <boxscape> err, no, it should be xs
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19:07:51 <boxscape> _73 looks like you need instance Memory MyMemory Integer String where
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19:09:45 <Guest33> boxscape so I did map (\(Node id val, xs) -> if id /= 0 then xs else xs ++ [3]) exGraph and it gives me [[1,2,3],[],[1,2]] where exGraph = [(Node {getNodeID = 0, getNodeVal = 'A'},[1,2]),(Node {getNodeID = 1, getNodeVal = 'B'},[]),(Node {getNodeID = 2, getNodeVal = 'C'},[1,2])]
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19:10:10 <Guest33> I wanted [(Node {getNodeID = 0, getNodeVal = 'A'},[1,2,3]),(Node {getNodeID = 1, getNodeVal = 'B'},[]),(Node {getNodeID = 2, getNodeVal = 'C'},[1,2])]
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19:10:53 <Guest33> basically it's working but not giving me the first modified list but the inner list
19:11:01 <boxscape> Guest33 so, in the body of the lambda expression you only have the if statement, you're not returning the actual node. You can write `\(Node id val, xs) -> (Node id val, if id /= 0 then xs else xs ++ [3])`, or, perhaps slightly better, \(node@(Node id val), xs) -> (node, if id /= 0 then xs else xs ++ [3])
19:11:26 <_73> boxscape: Illegel instance declaration for 'Memory MyMemory Integer String' ... my question is more about if what I am doing makes sense, rather than how to get this to actually work with MultiParamTypeClasses. I feel like what I am doing is slightly missing the point somehow.
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19:14:02 <Guest33> OMG you are actully a god boxcape
19:14:04 <Guest33> thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
19:14:11 <boxscape> you're welcome :)
19:15:03 <_73> boxscape: I was able to get it to work by adding FlexibleInstances
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19:15:43 <boxscape> _73 it seems reasonable to me. A couple questions are 1. If you need the MyMemory type at all or if you can just directly make an instance for (Map.Map Integer String) or even (Map.Map k v) for any types k and v, and 2. perhaps your class would benefit from a functional dependency `class Memory mem k v | mem -> k, mem -> v where` to tell ghc that
19:15:43 <boxscape> mem uniquely determines k and v, which can help with type inference
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19:18:58 <_73> ok I will go with this until something goes wrong. I have spent some time reading about functional dependencies, and I do recall that problems can arise with erroneous programs passing the typechecker with just MultiParamTypeClasses. I was never able to mentally figure out what is meant by `uniquely determines` though.
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19:20:40 <boxscape> if you have a `class C a b | a -> b`, you can't have two instances `instance C String A` and `instance C String B` if A and B are different. That is all that is meant by "a uniquely determines b`. So if ghc sees that the first parameter is String, it immediately knows what the second parameter must be, since there can only be one such instance
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19:23:19 <_73> boxscape: So with your suggestion I couldn't have both `MyMemory Integer String` and `MyMemory Float Double`?
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19:23:51 <boxscape> right
19:23:56 <_73> couldn't have Memory instances for both those types I should say
19:24:13 <boxscape> you can
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19:24:23 <boxscape> but it can't be that both use MyMemoty
19:24:26 <boxscape> s/t/s
19:24:29 <boxscape> err
19:24:30 <boxscape> s/t/r
19:25:13 <boxscape> oh, sorry, that's what you meant anyway
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19:26:21 <_73> I understand. I am going to revisit functional dependencies now. thanks
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19:35:01 <boxscape> are the old tunes logs saved anywhere else? the site seems to be "down" (asking for username and password, http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/haskell/?C=M;O=D )
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20:24:53 <hololeap> > So with your suggestion I couldn't have both `MyMemory Integer String` and `MyMemory Float Double`? -- No, having both of those would be fine, but you couldn't have, for instance, `MyMemory Integer String` and `MyMemory Integer Float`, since Integer uniquely determines what b will be. it says that if `a` is `Integer` then we know what `b` is since there can only be one instance for `a ~ Integer`
20:24:54 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:56: error: parse error on input ‘Integer’
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20:27:52 <boxscape> hololeap my original suggestion was having both mem -> k and mem -> v, so in `instance Memory MyMemory Integer String`, MyMemory would determine both Integer and String
20:28:51 <hololeap> ok, my bad
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20:49:26 <Henson> has the freenode #haskell channel moved to here?
20:49:36 <boxscape> Henson, yes
20:50:05 <boxscape> oh, neat, the official rust playground default code starts with a reference to Haskell and an implementation of the Monad trait https://play.rust-lang.org/
20:50:42 <boxscape> (it also fails to compile for me)
20:51:30 <boxscape> (because apparently you need to select nightly instead of stable at the top)
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20:53:23 <monochrom> :)
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20:56:09 <maerwald> no one runs stable
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21:13:25 <ski> _73 : note that "a uniquely determines b" *doesn't* mean that, for any given `a', there *has* to be a corresponding `b', with `C a b'. what it does say is that there can't be *more* than one `b' corresponding to each `a'. so, for each `a', there is at *most* one `b' such that `C a b'
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21:16:59 <ski> _73 : what this practically means, is two things : (a) the implementation ensures that you can't have instances `C T U0' and `C T U1' at the same time, for differing types `U0' and `U1'; and (b) whenever you have two constraints `C a b0' and `C a b1' (e.g. because of using methods of `C' in a way that ensures that the same type `a' is used), then the implementation knows that `b0' must be equal to `b1'
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21:17:05 <ski> (since there can be at most one `b' corresponding to an `a'), so it unifies `b0' and `b1' (call that `b'), and replaces the two constraints with just a single `C a b' one
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21:18:04 <ski> _73 : it's this (b) part which can help type inference (e.g. simplifying inferred types, and especially avoiding ambiguity which often otherwise could arise)
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21:20:04 <ski> _73 : logically speaking, we could say that the FD in `class C a b c | a -> b' expresses `forall a. unique b. exists c. C a b c' (for each type `a', there can be at most one type `b', (nevermind which type `c' is), satisfying `C a b c'
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21:21:13 <ski> _73 : another (equivalent) way of expressing this is `forall a b0 b1 c0 c1. (C a b0 c0,C a b1 c1) => b0 = b1' (if we have two instances with the same `a' parameter, then the `b' parameter must also be the same (no restriction on the `c' one))
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21:21:33 <mrmonday> boxscape: I think that's just left over from a previous playground link you clicked... it defaults to hello world if you open it in a private/incognito window
21:21:44 <boxscape> oh, hm
21:21:59 <boxscape> let me see how I got there
21:22:12 <boxscape> (I don't think I've ever been on rust-lang.org before)
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21:22:47 <boxscape> it's what I got after clicking on the first link for "try rust online" in google
21:22:47 <mrmonday> I always find interesting code there that I'd forgotten about
21:23:07 <mrmonday> most of the rust playground links I click are people doing weird things with the type system
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21:23:30 <boxscape> mrmonday hmm I guess I must have clicked on a link to it at some point with that code without remembering
21:23:53 <mrmonday> yeah, it sticks around forever
21:25:38 <boxscape> mrmonday yup, found it, a link to there with this gist hash as URL param was in my history https://gist.github.com/rust-play/61caef82814783feadc33a3b865fe8b3
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21:27:20 <mrmonday> there's gonna be some really exciting and really horrifying code when that feature stabilises, I'm sure :)
21:27:42 <boxscape> hah, yeah
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21:28:17 <boxscape> (though I wouldn't know, I've never seen rust snippets longer than 3 lines, save for that gist)
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21:29:13 <mrmonday> I've seen a full implementation of the standard suite of haskell classes using stable Rust before, that was... interesting
21:31:05 <mrmonday> it was like when you see code based on a paper and it's completely illegible until you've read/understood the paper... crossed with someone really pushing a languages type system to its limits in ways it's really not designed to be used
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21:33:34 <boxscape> I once started (but didn't get very far) implementing GHC's base in haskell... here is what `data () = ()` looks like: https://github.com/JakobBruenker/jase/blob/master/jase-lib/main/com/github/jakobbruenker/jase/prim/ghc/Tuple.java#L48-L61
21:33:39 <boxscape> in Java
21:33:41 <boxscape> not in Haskell
21:33:45 <boxscape> that would be somewhat redundant
21:33:58 <ski> mrmonday : including higher-order ones, like `Functor' ?
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21:34:26 <dibblego> ya can't in Java
21:34:28 <boxscape> wait
21:34:32 <boxscape> that repo is secret isn't it
21:35:00 <boxscape> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/1PbbTe9e is the code that link points to
21:35:15 <boxscape> dibblego yeah there's lots of things you can't do in Java, but a surprising number of things you can do
21:35:17 <c_wraith> I was under the impression rust can fake Functor in a way, but it totally falls over when you get to Traversable (A higher-kinded class over an independently higher-kinded-polymorphic function)
21:35:48 <dibblego> boxscape: yes we did this 15 years ago https://functionaljava.org/
21:36:14 <boxscape> dibblego ah, nice, I've been on that website a few times
21:36:37 <mrmonday> ski: yeah, there are some really interesting tricks you can use in stable rust to "implement" Functor
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21:36:51 <dibblego> also Java 7 lambdas http://javac.info
21:36:54 <mrmonday> implement feels like the wrong word to use there :P
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21:37:52 <dibblego> the fake is called "Lightweight Higher-Kinded Polymorphism" and "lightweight" is a generous adjective
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21:47:00 ski . o O ( "Java Precisely" by Peter Sestoft (of Moscow ML fame) in 2002 (1st ed.),2005 (2nd ed.),2016 (3rd ed.) at <https://www.itu.dk/people/sestoft/javaprecisely/> mentions various functional stuff (in 3rd ed.) )
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21:54:41 <_73> are there any hexadecimal libraries that come with some Hex type that derives Integral and has functions for creating Hex's out of strings?
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21:56:57 <_73> err derives Num as well
21:57:38 <c_wraith> uhh. that seems weird to me. Hex isn't a different behavior for a number. It's just a different output format
21:57:46 <unyu> If your Hex type derives Num, this means that you want to do arithmetic using it, right?
21:57:59 <unyu> Why would you use anything other than ordinary numeric types for that?
21:58:36 <enikar> % read @Int "0x3b"
21:58:36 <yahb> enikar: 59
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21:59:14 <geekosaur> there's also Numeric.readHex
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22:00:39 <_73> Ok I got it now thanks
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22:03:51 <monochrom> "Here's a bonus note with Java performance tips": "perform loop invariant code motion yourself", "perform common subexpression elimination yourself", "perform induction variable optimization yourself", "while you can't perform register allocation yourself, you can nudge it by copying data to local variables yourself", "perform TC->loop optimization yourself"
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22:09:10 <boxscape> fun
22:09:52 <Cajun> and java still doesnt have TCO/TCE lol
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22:20:50 <unyu> What is the current blessed way to use databases in Haskell? I mean, while avoiding the extremes of “stringly typed queries” and “need to use a lot of Template Haskell magic to generate types for every single table and view”.
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22:28:50 <[exa]> unyu: we used selda, it was cool
22:29:35 <unyu> Thanks, checking it out.
22:29:50 <[exa]> it works with overloaded labels and generics, pretty good imho
22:30:47 <jiribenes> yeah, selda is pretty cool (not too basic, not too advanced IMO)
22:30:57 <[exa]> honestly the labels are mildly scary for the first time
22:31:15 <[exa]> but you can chew through it
22:31:33 <[exa]> (I didn't even look up what the # really does yet, it just worked)
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22:33:12 <unyu> Thanks. :-)
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All times are in UTC on 2021-06-05.