Logs on 2021-06-16 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:53:09 | <spider_> | is there an inbuilt split function? eg split "," "hi, how are you? that's, awesome" |
| 00:53:15 | <spider_> | would return 3 elements |
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| 00:54:42 | <ski> | > splitOn "," "hi, how are you? that's, awesome" |
| 00:54:44 | <lambdabot> | ["hi"," how are you? that's"," awesome"] |
| 00:55:23 | <ski> | @hackage split |
| 00:55:24 | <lambdabot> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/split |
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| 00:57:12 | <spider_> | thank you! |
| 00:58:45 | <spider_> | I can't seem to import it |
| 00:59:12 | <spider_> | oh I have to install it |
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| 01:17:02 | <pavonia> | Is there a similar function that allows you to split based on different sublists? |
| 01:17:39 | <pavonia> | e.g. split' ["__", ","] "foo__bar,baz" == ["foo", "bar", "baz"] |
| 01:18:15 | <Axman6> | > splitOn "__" "foo__bar,baz" >>= splitOn "," |
| 01:18:16 | <lambdabot> | ["foo","bar","baz"] |
| 01:19:20 | <Axman6> | not that I know of, but making that into a function wouldn't be hard |
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| 01:20:22 | <pavonia> | Hhm |
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| 01:20:38 | <Axman6> | % let splitAll [] str = [str]; splitAll (x:xs) str = splitOn x str >>= splitAll xs in splitAll ["__", ","] "foo__bar,baz" |
| 01:20:38 | <yahb> | Axman6: ["foo","bar","baz"] |
| 01:21:29 | <pavonia> | % let splitAll [] str = [str]; splitAll (x:xs) str = splitOn x str >>= splitAll xs in splitAll ["foo","bar","baz"] "foo__bar,baz" |
| 01:21:29 | <yahb> | pavonia: ["","__",",",""] |
| 01:21:43 | <pavonia> | Nice |
| 01:22:20 | <pavonia> | % split "" "foobar" |
| 01:22:21 | <yahb> | pavonia: ; <interactive>:7:7: error:; * Couldn't match type: [Char]; with: Splitter Char; Expected: Splitter Char; Actual: String; * In the first argument of `split', namely `""'; In the expression: split "" "foobar"; In an equation for `it': it = split "" "foobar" |
| 01:22:35 | <pavonia> | % splitOn "" "foobar" |
| 01:22:35 | <yahb> | pavonia: ["","f","o","o","b","a","r"] |
| 01:23:04 | <pavonia> | Why doesn't it match at the final position too? |
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| 02:12:44 | <dmwit> | pavonia: From the docs: "Note that splitting on the empty list is a special case." |
| 02:13:01 | <dmwit> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/split-0.2.3.4/docs/Data-List-Split.html#v:onSublist |
| 02:13:08 | <dmwit> | (splitOn uses onSublist) |
| 02:13:26 | <dmwit> | :t foldM |
| 02:13:27 | <lambdabot> | (Foldable t, Monad m) => (b -> a -> m b) -> b -> t a -> m b |
| 02:14:11 | <dmwit> | % foldM (flip splitOn) "foo__bar,baz" ["foo", "bar", "baz"] |
| 02:14:12 | <yahb> | dmwit: ["","__",",",""] |
| 02:14:33 | <dmwit> | Don't write your own recursion! ;-) |
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| 05:06:43 | <mikko> | am i missing something or is it true there is only readOct and readHex and no readBin? |
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| 05:13:44 | <sshine> | mikko, it appears that there's only readDec, readOct and readHex in base, yes. |
| 05:14:11 | <mikko> | huh, that's a bit weird |
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| 05:16:24 | <sshine> | I wouldn't say weird. if you think about how many languages have special syntax for different number bases, you mostly see languages that let you specify decimal, 0octal and 0xhex, and rarely 0bbinary. wouldn't you agree? |
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| 05:17:03 | <mikko> | i've mostly dealt with languages with the 0bbinary |
| 05:17:09 | <sshine> | ah, okay. |
| 05:17:16 | <sshine> | I've most often missed it. |
| 05:17:51 | <sshine> | they seem to be defined here: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.15.0.0/docs/src/Numeric.html#readOct -- that is, using ReadP parsers from Text.Read.Lex: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.15.0.0/docs/src/Text-Read-Lex.html#readOctP |
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| 05:18:29 | <sshine> | those combinators actually seem to have been built with flexibility for more number bases. |
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| 05:20:26 | <mikko> | actually i'm having a hard time finding a language that doesn't have 0b11.. C, ruby, python, js, julia all have it |
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| 05:21:03 | <mikko> | but i guess it's simple enough to define readBin with readInt |
| 05:21:06 | <sshine> | interesting! I wonder if my memory is wrong. |
| 05:21:10 | <sshine> | yeah :) |
| 05:21:28 | <sshine> | :t Text.Read.Lex.readIntP 2 (`elem` "01") (\c -> ord c - ord '0') |
| 05:21:29 | <lambdabot> | Num a => Text.ParserCombinators.ReadP.ReadP a |
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| 05:23:44 | <sshine> | :t Text.ParserCombinators.ReadP.readP_to_S (Text.Read.Lex.readIntP 2 (`elem` "01") (\c -> ord c - ord '0')) |
| 05:23:45 | <lambdabot> | Num a => ReadS a |
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| 05:24:08 | <sshine> | which is just an alias for 'String -> [(a, String)]': https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.15.0.0/docs/GHC-Read.html#t:ReadS |
| 05:24:27 | <mikko> | i went with readBin s = head [num | (num, "") <- readInt 2 (`elem` "01") digitToInt s] |
| 05:25:18 | <sshine> | maybe readBin should be added. |
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| 05:50:26 | <dsal> | I wrote some code using scotty and have some unit tests using `testWithApplication` to bind to a port and then use wreq to make requests against http://localhost:[port]/. It's absurdly slow. Most of the time seems to be spent doing something related to base64 decoding down inside a PEM parser. Any idea what's going on here? |
| 05:51:02 | <dsal> | Sucks because nothing in the profile is even code I want called, much less am trying to call. |
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| 05:51:33 | <dsal> | Example top of profile: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/TvFpBoRp/sucks.prof |
| 05:52:55 | <dminuoso> | Damn I recall that same problem when I was on macOS |
| 05:54:30 | <dminuoso> | dsal: Just out of curiosity, what cost center generation do you use? |
| 05:55:05 | <dsal> | Heh, I don't know what I'm doing here, just ran `stack test --profile` to see which of my dumb functions needed to be speed up. |
| 05:58:14 | <dminuoso> | dsal: Can you try running getSystemCertificateStore in isolation? My memory is sketchy, but I think it's just a slow process. |
| 05:58:36 | <dminuoso> | (Maybe the result is not cached properly due to the way your tests are set up) |
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| 06:00:52 | <dsal> | That returned quickly enough. I'm doing property tests making http requests into a server I brought up with `testWithApplication` -- I've got it down to 5 tests, but it might have up to 100 (*2) HTTP requests to make against the server. I'm running those concurrently, but that seems to be where all the time is. I can't tell if it's the client or the server from here. |
| 06:01:56 | <dminuoso> | Perhaps you could grab `certificates`, modify `getSystemCertificateStore` to maybe log a line every time its called, vendor it, and observe? |
| 06:02:11 | <dminuoso> | There's likely better options, so this is just a pragmatic idea |
| 06:03:05 | <dsal> | The annoying part is that I'm not doing anything that should involve a certificate in the first place. |
| 06:03:39 | <dminuoso> | Can you put out the profiling data in call tree shape? |
| 06:03:44 | <dminuoso> | It should be obvious what calls it |
| 06:04:17 | <dsal> | https://github.com/haskell/wreq/issues/128 <-- oh hey. I think someone's seen this before. |
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| 06:06:13 | <dminuoso> | As far as I can remember, the behavior seemed reasonable to me at the time. |
| 06:06:27 | <dminuoso> | If you could provide a more detailed profiling graph that might be helpful |
| 06:07:28 | <dminuoso> | (with the call free and perhaps with profiling-detail: all-functions) |
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| 06:08:57 | <dsal> | Here's the whole file. It's a bit big, but if you have a wide enough screen, you can make it out. :) https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/r6Xu7kOR/shortening-test.prof |
| 06:09:24 | <dminuoso> | hah it crashes my emacsclient! |
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| 06:10:11 | <dsal> | I'm just using less -S |
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| 06:10:25 | <dminuoso> | dsal: Ah I think I found it. |
| 06:10:38 | <dminuoso> | Is it possible you create a new manager for each test? |
| 06:10:58 | <dsal> | It's quite possible. I'm just using wreq in the most basic dumb way. |
| 06:11:10 | <dminuoso> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/http-client-0.7.8/docs/Network-HTTP-Client.html#v:newManager |
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| 06:12:14 | <dminuoso> | newManager Network.HTTP.Client.Manager Network/HTTP/Client/Manager.hs:(107,1)-(134,18) 74862 253 0.0 0.0 45.1 44.3 |
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| 06:12:41 | <dminuoso> | So yeah. This is an expensive operation because it creates a full certificate store each time it seems. |
| 06:12:59 | <dsal> | I'll see if the wreq session thing helps. |
| 06:13:58 | <dsal> | Yeah, that's... significantly faster. |
| 06:14:26 | <dsal> | OK. So I guess creating a new manager everytime implicitly by using wreq the dumb way is a bad idae. |
| 06:15:12 | <dsal> | Cool, this is usably fast now. Thanks. :) |
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| 10:14:44 | <kuribas> | Is there some abstraction that has ordering, but not equality? For example timeseries: [(t, v)], where you can compare the time, but a value at the same time is not necessarily equal. |
| 10:15:08 | <kuribas> | it would allow for merging of timeseries. |
| 10:15:44 | <tomsmeding> | kuribas: a == b = compare a b == EQ |
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| 10:25:20 | <dminuoso> | kuribas: Do you mean a preorder? |
| 10:25:57 | <kuribas> | dminuoso: I suppose? |
| 10:26:36 | <kuribas> | for example, this doesn't allow for merging values: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/data-ordlist-0.4.7.0/docs/Data-List-Ordered.html |
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| 10:27:55 | <arahael> | Aeson converts arbitrary structures into json, using generics. It's amazing, but how do I generate a schema for it? I've found https://hackage.haskell.org/package/jsonschema-gen-0.4.1.0/docs/Data-JSON-Schema-Generator.html but it's really old, and has a few other concerning issues. Any other recommendations? |
| 10:28:21 | <arahael> | Compiles and apparently works well, though... (Haven't tested it though) |
| 10:28:31 | <dminuoso> | arahael: what kind of schema specification are you looking for? |
| 10:28:33 | <dminuoso> | OpenAPI3? |
| 10:28:41 | <dminuoso> | JSON Schema? |
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| 10:29:21 | <arahael> | Yeah, json schema, but happy to support anything that lets me spit out a parser for the aeson's json in some other language (such as in this particular case: Swift) |
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| 10:29:44 | <dminuoso> | Try openapi3, in parts its an extended form of json schema |
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| 10:30:17 | <dminuoso> | You might get away with it |
| 10:31:15 | <arahael> | That looks better, actually. |
| 10:31:16 | <dminuoso> | kuribas: I guess you could use an `IntMap [T]` with `inserting t = insertWith (<>) [t]` as an approximation |
| 10:31:22 | <arahael> | dminuoso: Thanks :D |
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| 10:32:25 | <kuribas> | dminuoso: no, because they are ranges, not events. |
| 10:33:14 | <dminuoso> | kuribas: What would that preorder look like? |
| 10:33:29 | <dminuoso> | Would it be some <= relation on the starting timestamp of the range? |
| 10:33:39 | <kuribas> | yeah |
| 10:34:00 | <dminuoso> | When do things "overlap" with that? |
| 10:34:15 | <dminuoso> | i.e. what does "same time" even mean? |
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| 10:34:30 | <dminuoso> | (if we only compare say the lower bound of the range) |
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| 10:40:29 | <arahael> | Just tested it - jsonschema-gen doesn't appear to work as expected, somehow pleased, OpenAPI looks far more appropriate. |
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| 11:44:18 | <hello20> | I have an error installing ghcup on my mac |
| 11:44:30 | <hello20> | the error is: Digest error: expected "43d2ef356fb8cbd8e27acf70f94c079157258916bb1220751547584513584aaa", but got "9863f00928f72cf0a16bd3f3578ac55704c721bc77148273d909fd895d05c783" |
| 11:44:51 | <hello20> | No further assistance seems to be available |
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| 11:45:55 | <hello20> | repeating the installation command results in the same or similar outcome |
| 11:46:33 | <hello20> | can anyone suggest what to try next? |
| 11:46:42 | <nitrix> | hello20, Can you check .ghcup/logs for more information? |
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| 11:47:43 | <hello20> | yes, did that and the log simply contains the same error message |
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| 11:48:17 | <hello20> | btw, thanks for answering nitrix |
| 11:48:23 | <nitrix> | Looks like a corrupted download. Someone reported the same problem in 2020 and from the channel logs, seems like the last message was maerwald saying to re-ask ghcup to download with ~/.ghcup/bin/ghcup --downloader wget install ghc 9.0.1 |
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| 11:48:54 | <nitrix> | See https://ircbrowse.tomsmeding.com/day/haskell/2020/10/15 and search "DigestError". |
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| 11:51:12 | <hello20> | Yes, I have an older version of ghc installed, 8.* |
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| 11:55:46 | <hello20> | OK, I think I have to first upgrade ghc then install ghcup. Will try that. Thanks for the suggestions |
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| 11:58:16 | <nitrix> | I found other posts online that seems to hint about issues with old GHC on newer mac versions, they ended up upgrading GHC to fix the problem. |
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| 11:58:59 | <nitrix> | Can't hurt to try. |
| 11:59:29 | <merijn> | I mean, that'd have to be a pretty old GHC though? |
| 11:59:38 | <merijn> | Or truly bleeding edge mac, I guess |
| 11:59:58 | <nitrix> | Yeah, was Catalina when Catalina had just come out. |
| 12:00:34 | <nitrix> | Kinda strange that it manifest itself in the form of a bad digest. |
| 12:00:35 | <merijn> | I'm on Catalina and still use mostly 8.6 and 8.10 as defaults without any real issues |
| 12:01:54 | <nitrix> | Would've been nice if you had had issues, then we'd have someone know what to do, hehe :P |
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| 12:05:17 | <nitrix> | Found another case (https://ircbrowse.tomsmeding.com/day/haskell/2020/09/27), says corrupted download (bindist was suspected but ended up fine). They did ~/.ghcup/bin/ghcup --downloader=wget install ghc, which didn't work because they didn't have wget, but that seems like a recurring theme for the solution. |
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| 12:13:34 | <maerwald> | hello20: so you're on darwin and trying to install hls? |
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| 12:19:43 | <maerwald> | hello20: it appears upstream (hls developers) changed the .tar.gz archive in-place |
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| 12:19:55 | <maerwald> | so it's expected that this throws an error |
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| 12:20:01 | <maerwald> | jneira ^ |
| 12:20:17 | <merijn> | maerwald: That's what you get for trusting upstream ;) |
| 12:20:56 | <maerwald> | maybe they added a missing GHC there, I'm not sure |
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| 12:22:58 | <maerwald> | hello20: ghcup --no-verify install hls 1.2.0 |
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| 12:26:27 | <maerwald> | merijn: https://github.com/haskell/haskell-language-server/issues/1438 |
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| 12:27:02 | <maerwald> | maybe this needs another nudge |
| 12:27:08 | <nitrix> | Oh-oh. They'll go on Santa's naughty list. |
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| 12:27:44 | <merijn> | maerwald: tbh, the state of gpg UX is an embarassment to tech as a field >.> |
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| 12:30:10 | <nitrix> | I'm unclear if they're installing ghcup, installing ghc using ghcup, or installing hls using ghcup. ^ hello20 |
| 12:30:30 | <maerwald> | the last one, bc that's the hash of hls 1.2.0 on darwin |
| 12:30:48 | <maerwald> | which just changed |
| 12:31:45 | <dminuoso> | merijn: I dont know what you mean. gpg is the definition of a superb user experience. |
| 12:31:57 | <dminuoso> | I never have to consult a man page to use it. I just google for stackoverflow answers and copy paste those. |
| 12:32:04 | <maerwald> | lol |
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| 12:32:21 | <maerwald> | `tldr gpg` |
| 12:32:49 | <maerwald> | your direct interface to SO |
| 12:33:18 | <dminuoso> | See, what we really need is a browser plugin that automatically executes a selected region in a shell. |
| 12:33:25 | <dminuoso> | To simplify this workflow |
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| 12:35:41 | <nitrix> | maerwald, Thank you by the way. I have no idea how this stuff works and was scrambling around trying to piece out information x] |
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| 13:32:52 | <bmo> | What is a good approach of parsing (very large) XML files? I started off with using xml-conduit as it seems a good suit but maybe I am wrong |
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| 13:33:06 | <bmo> | I currently have a minor problem with that: paste.tomsmeding.com/WyuOXLLK |
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| 13:34:54 | <bmo> | So basically I cannot assume an order on the xml-tags. With that example an entry consists of `persons` (multiple fields that contain a `Text`) and `title` which is `Text` too. The naive way of just parsing `persons` first and then the `title` breaks as soon as the XML is not following the same order (duh) |
| 13:35:32 | <bmo> | Is there an elegant way of parsing such XML without breaking down my `Entry`'s fields, parsing them first and then re-order+validate? |
| 13:38:00 | <bmo> | In that small example my current approach works for `bs0` but for `bs1` it breaks as `title` precedes the `person`s (the might actually be interleaved in reality, so `<person>...<title>...<person>...` etc.)) |
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| 13:41:52 | <shapr> | Anyone want to suggest improvements to https://github.com/shapr/takedouble/blob/main/src/Takedouble.hs#L71 and the saneFile function below? |
| 13:42:06 | <shapr> | I feel like there's a better and/or simpler approach to that. |
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| 13:43:56 | <dminuoso> | bmo: AttrParser is an Alternative, so you can use this https://hackage.haskell.org/package/parser-combinators-1.3.0/docs/Control-Monad-Permutations.html |
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| 13:45:45 | <dminuoso> | Im a bit surprised, does AttrParser not do this for you already? |
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| 13:47:07 | <dminuoso> | Judging from the implementation, the order shouldn't matter. |
| 13:47:28 | <bmo> | dminuoso, actually the attributes are valid up to permutation true. I haven't noticed. |
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| 13:48:05 | <dminuoso> | So when you said "breaks", is that what you think it happens? |
| 13:48:08 | <dminuoso> | Have you actually tried it? |
| 13:48:29 | <bmo> | But my problem is with actual tags. So I have `<e> <p>x</p> <t>y</t> </e>` but sometimes `<e> <t>y</t> <p>x</p> </e>` |
| 13:49:08 | <bmo> | dminuoso, I just tested permuting the attributes and that works. But the permuted tags don't which, in hindsight, is expected |
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| 13:49:13 | <dminuoso> | Ahh |
| 13:49:15 | <shapr> | Hm, I think I'll convert the "get all files in all subdirectories" function into something that could run in a bunch of threads, just to see if that's faster. |
| 13:49:29 | <dminuoso> | bmo: Yeah I dont think permutation on tags can reasonably work in conduit-xml |
| 13:49:34 | <shapr> | I've read NVMe drives work best with a deep queue of requests |
| 13:49:42 | <maerwald> | shapr: threading over filesystem operations? :> |
| 13:49:52 | <dminuoso> | bmo: For starters, what does "permutation" even mean? A naive take on XML is that it's a tree. |
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| 13:50:46 | <shapr> | maerwald: yeah, I think it could speed up reading a bunch of files to check for duplicates |
| 13:51:10 | <shapr> | maerwald: I'm also slowly working my way towards this kind of thing: https://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/202x/2021/03/27/Topfew-and-Amdahl |
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| 13:51:20 | <bmo> | Well within an `<e>` (I'm just using abbreviations of that example I gave) "fields" are sometimes permuted, ie. not in a particular order |
| 13:51:28 | <shapr> | that is, a count min sketch on top of Apache logs |
| 13:51:40 | <bmo> | Luckily the leaves in such an `<e>` are always small, so the wouldn't nest further. |
| 13:51:59 | <shapr> | maerwald: at least for that post, reading multiple pieces of a large file in different threads was faster |
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| 13:52:48 | <dminuoso> | bmo: You can <|> NameMatchers together |
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| 13:54:21 | <dminuoso> | bmo: It seems you'd have to do something along these lines: |
| 13:54:56 | <bmo> | dminuoso, so I'd have to (with xml-conduit that is) parse the tags into something isomorphic to `data ELeave = P Text | T Text` and then re-order+validate once I parsed all of `<e>`'s leaves? |
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| 13:58:33 | <dminuoso> | bmo: Something along the lines of: data Ki = Ent | Per | Tit; isEntry :: A -> Maybe Ki; isPerson :: A -> Maybe Ki; tag (isEntry <|> isPerson) (\case of Ent -> ...; Per -> ...; Tit -> ...) |
| 13:58:50 | <dminuoso> | This will become very awkward to write I think |
| 13:59:10 | <dminuoso> | Since you then have to keep track what kind of element you have consumed |
| 13:59:12 | <bmo> | Yeah :( I kinda wanted to avoid this somehow |
| 14:00:06 | <bmo> | Especially since that is a small example and the real thing is quite a bit bigger |
| 14:01:21 | <dminuoso> | bmo: have you considered tagsoup perhaps? |
| 14:02:12 | <bmo> | No, so far I only considered xml-conduit and had a quick look at how I can use DtdToHaskell with HaXml but conduit seemed simpler. |
| 14:02:40 | <bmo> | I was not aware of tagsoup, I'll have a look at it. Thanks a lot for your assistance! |
| 14:02:52 | <dminuoso> | with tagsoup you can convert it straight into a plain tree, that might be much easier to work with for you |
| 14:03:23 | <dminuoso> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/tagsoup-0.14.8/docs/Text-HTML-TagSoup-Tree.html#v:parseTreeOptions |
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| 14:06:14 | <dminuoso> | Or even a plain tagsoup list https://hackage.haskell.org/package/tagsoup-0.14.8/docs/Text-HTML-TagSoup.html#v:parseTagsOptions |
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| 14:09:47 | <bmo> | I am a bit concerned about the size of the files (~1G) but it might be negligible. I'll try to work with that and will see |
| 14:10:26 | <merijn> | bmo: xml-conduit is great for scraping schema-less XML, but it's not really well suited to XML with an actual schema |
| 14:10:55 | <merijn> | That said, HaXml always looked confusing as hell to me, and I wouldn't dare assume it handles huge inputs gracefully |
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| 14:14:13 | <maerwald> | it uses arrows, no? |
| 14:14:24 | <bmo> | Yes ^^ |
| 14:14:35 | <maerwald> | no one knows what they are for |
| 14:14:36 | <maerwald> | :> |
| 14:15:19 | <dminuoso> | merijn: well if the relative order of tags at some parent is unknown, xml-conduit seems very uncomfortable to use. |
| 14:15:38 | <dminuoso> | Did I miss some combinator to do permutation-style tag parsing? |
| 14:15:42 | <merijn> | How so? |
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| 14:16:27 | <dminuoso> | Say you have <foo><bar></bar><quux></quux></foo>, and you want it to parse whether bar or quux have been swapped around or not. |
| 14:17:27 | <dminuoso> | As far as I can tell, `tag` commits to a particular chosen tag |
| 14:17:38 | <bmo> | I'd end up writing `do ts <- many $ tag (t_0 <|> ... <|> t_n) (\case T0 -> ..; ...; T_n -> ...); reorder ts` it seems |
| 14:18:14 | <dminuoso> | bmo: follow that line of thought |
| 14:18:19 | <dminuoso> | you have to repeat that same code one for each branch |
| 14:19:27 | <dminuoso> | Say you have T1, T2, T3, then you parse like that for T1,T2,T3. In the the T1 branch you will have to repeat that for T2 and T3. For the T2 branch you have to repeat that for T1 and T3. For the T3 branch you repeat it for T2 and T3. |
| 14:19:29 | <bmo> | yup. though the leaves `t_0` .. `t_n` are "flat" so at least it won't nest, however there are many occurences of this sort of entry |
| 14:19:36 | <dminuoso> | This explodes quickly |
| 14:20:18 | <dminuoso> | bmo: ah but with `many` you will admit more nonsense like multiple title tags. |
| 14:22:48 | <bmo> | True |
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| 14:29:23 | <zebrag> | [testing] |
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| 14:31:43 | <raehik> | Is there a way to view the implementation of a function in ghci? Like :i but showing the function contents as well as the type signature |
| 14:31:52 | <raehik> | (it would save me a lot of silly hoogles) |
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| 14:33:47 | <allbery_b> | nope |
| 14:34:12 | <lortabac> | raehik: there is the @src command in lambdabot |
| 14:34:30 | <lortabac> | @src head |
| 14:34:30 | <lambdabot> | head (x:_) = x |
| 14:34:30 | <lambdabot> | head [] = error "Prelude.head: empty list" |
| 14:34:31 | <raehik> | @src (++) |
| 14:34:32 | <lambdabot> | [] ++ ys = ys |
| 14:34:32 | <lambdabot> | (x:xs) ++ ys = x : (xs ++ ys) |
| 14:34:32 | <lambdabot> | -- OR |
| 14:34:32 | <lambdabot> | xs ++ ys = foldr (:) ys xs |
| 14:34:57 | <raehik> | That's handy. Shame I can't get that locally too |
| 14:35:00 | <allbery_b> | but @src tells lies |
| 14:35:03 | <lortabac> | you can send private messages to lambdabot |
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| 14:35:12 | <raehik> | lortabac: oh, thank you! |
| 14:35:16 | <lortabac> | yes, @src is not the real source code |
| 14:35:18 | <allbery_b> | you can with goa, also, although getting it to build can be tricky |
| 14:36:14 | <lortabac> | but (I guess) if you run that code instead of the GHC one you should get the same behavior |
| 14:36:27 | <lortabac> | performance aside |
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| 14:36:56 | <lortabac> | allbery_b: what is goa? |
| 14:37:10 | <allbery_b> | @hackage goa |
| 14:37:10 | <lambdabot> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/goa |
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| 14:37:14 | <allbery_b> | it hooks lambdabot into ghci |
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| 14:37:36 | <lortabac> | thanks |
| 14:37:48 | <lortabac> | Maintainer: none :s |
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| 14:52:18 | <janus> | i am using ripgrep a lot to search for definitions of functions, because HLS breaks down on my codebase. so i keep searching "definitionName ::" to find a definition |
| 14:52:37 | <janus> | but then, if it is a record, and the types have been aligned, it won't match because of whitespace |
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| 14:52:57 | <merijn> | janus: Also wouldn't work on half my code, tbh |
| 14:53:01 | <janus> | instead of writing my own macros, does someone have a set of ripgrep alieses for this, or something similar? |
| 14:53:07 | <merijn> | since I usually newline before :: for long types |
| 14:53:46 | <janus> | right, so really want i want is a AST search language with a convenient ascii syntax |
| 14:54:01 | <janus> | i shouldn't even need to bother with textual regex... this code already compiled |
| 14:54:29 | <merijn> | Doubt someone has that, tbh |
| 14:54:58 | <janus> | do the .hi files contain the binding names? then maybe that could help making a lite version of it |
| 14:55:16 | <merijn> | janus: That's basically what hls does, so you'd be reimplementing HLS, basically |
| 14:55:35 | <merijn> | Probably less effort to talk to the HLS people and see why it breaks on your codebase |
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| 14:56:20 | <janus> | well it leaks memory, i think they are already aware |
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| 15:00:53 | <shapr> | janus: hasktags or other tags creator? |
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| 15:01:13 | <janus> | shapr: oh i never tried that, can you recommend one? |
| 15:01:31 | <shapr> | I use hasktags, but I'm just trying haskdogs for the first time. |
| 15:01:40 | <janus> | i like dogs |
| 15:01:45 | <shapr> | it takes much longer, so I don't know about it yet :-) |
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| 15:37:09 | <Philonous_> | Can't GHC generate tags for you? |
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| 16:15:43 | <slack1256> | I recall there was a `rightToMaybe` defined on base somewhere. Did I imagine it? |
| 16:17:03 | <janus> | slack1256: there is one in `either` |
| 16:18:23 | <slack1256> | Yeah, I can use `either (const Nothing) Just`. But I recall it was already defined somewhere. |
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| 16:38:19 | <safinaskar> | have unlifted types bottoms? |
| 16:38:31 | <lyxia> | no |
| 16:39:19 | <lyxia> | safinaskar: thanks again for your answer on cafe BTW |
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| 16:39:53 | <safinaskar> | lyxia: ok :)) |
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| 16:40:57 | <safinaskar> | but "undefined :: Int#" compiles! |
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| 16:50:57 | <lyxia> | they key is that you don't get a value of type Int# (unlike undefined :: Int) |
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| 16:52:26 | <safinaskar> | % 0 |
| 16:52:26 | <yahb> | safinaskar: 0 |
| 16:53:21 | <safinaskar> | i am not registered on libera.char . and i can write yahb on-channel, but cannot write it directly. this is very good |
| 16:53:33 | <safinaskar> | this forces me to flood yahb on channel |
| 16:53:52 | <lyxia> | % let x = undefined :: Int# in () |
| 16:53:53 | <yahb> | lyxia: *** Exception: Prelude.undefined; CallStack (from HasCallStack):; error, called at libraries/base/GHC/Err.hs:75:14 in base:GHC.Err; undefined, called at <interactive>:13:9 in interactive:Ghci11 |
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| 16:53:59 | <lyxia> | % let x = undefined :: Int in () |
| 16:53:59 | <yahb> | lyxia: () |
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| 16:55:59 | <safinaskar> | lyxia: okey |
| 16:56:29 | <dminuoso> | slack1256: Not in base. I find myself writing `hush :: Either a b -> Maybe b` and `note :: a -> Maybe b -> Either a b` in many of the applications here. |
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| 16:57:42 | <c_wraith> | you prefer to not use the errors package? |
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| 17:04:00 | <dminuoso> | c_wraith: For 2 functions? No. |
| 17:04:22 | <dminuoso> | Their implementation is far too trivial to incur an extra dependency, and potentially introduce transformers/exceptions into my transitive dependencies. |
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| 17:09:10 | <justsomeguy> | What motivated Alonzo Chruch to create the lambda calculus? |
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| 17:11:18 | <justsomeguy> | ...ah, I should have just kept on reading, the wikipedia page on the church-turing thesis has some background... |
| 17:11:23 | <dolio> | He was trying to create a formal system for logic. |
| 17:12:02 | <dminuoso> | As far as I can make it out, he created it to have a formal system to talk about computations and algorithms in order to disprove the Entscheidungsproblem (see Church's theorem) |
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| 17:12:39 | <dolio> | The computation part actually came after the logic part. |
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| 17:15:12 | <dolio> | At least, publication-wise. |
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| 17:22:44 | <justsomeguy> | I'm vaguely aware that there was a sort of open problem in mathematics that Hilbert proposed, called Hilberts program, which was to find an algorithm to prove whether any arbitrary mathematical statement can eventually be proved true (or decided). |
| 17:23:19 | <justsomeguy> | I guess I'm just spinning my wheels here, but it's interesting stuff ^_^. |
| 17:23:53 | <dminuoso> | If wikipedia is to be believed, this was later. |
| 17:24:11 | <sm[m]> | how do you tell stack and cabal to build one package at a time, again ? To save ram |
| 17:24:11 | <dminuoso> | At least that summary suggests that this dates back to Gottfriend Leibniz. |
| 17:24:30 | <tomsmeding> | sm[m]: -j1 |
| 17:25:11 | <tomsmeding> | @tell merijn You told me ereyesterday that Profunctor, Applicative, Category and Bifunctor pretty much obsolete Arrow; where do I find (&&&)? :p |
| 17:25:12 | <lambdabot> | Consider it noted. |
| 17:25:31 | <justsomeguy> | There's a talk on the ACM website called "lambda calculus then & now", which outlines a timeline, but it's a bit confusing. |
| 17:25:40 | <sm[m]> | thanks tomsmeding ! |
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| 17:27:21 | <maerwald> | ncpu is a crazy default imo |
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| 17:27:34 | <maerwald> | I opened tickets for both stack and cabal about it, but nothing happened :> |
| 17:27:59 | <tomsmeding> | maerwald: it's not a crazy default if you have lots of ram |
| 17:28:02 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: that's just profunctors |
| 17:28:16 | <maerwald> | ncpu is a metric from gcc, which doesn't translate to GHC *at all* |
| 17:28:40 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: Should be captured by Strong |
| 17:28:52 | <dolio> | The actual history kind of makes people talking about how 'miraculous' the connection between logic and computation is kind of silly, since several of the big computational systems grew out of attempts to formalize logic. |
| 17:30:21 | <tomsmeding> | maerwald: what would your suggested default be? |
| 17:30:23 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: it's basically just first' + second' + dimap for massaging. |
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| 17:30:44 | <tomsmeding> | dminuoso: right, and it's also \f g x -> (f x, g x) |
| 17:30:55 | <sm[m]> | I have someone building things on a 2G machine, so I'm recalling the low mem tips |
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| 17:30:59 | <sm[m]> | @where lowmem |
| 17:30:59 | <lambdabot> | I know nothing about lowmem. |
| 17:30:59 | <maerwald> | tomsmeding: 1 |
| 17:31:21 | <tomsmeding> | maerwald: is that a sane default on my 32GB ram machine? |
| 17:31:31 | <maerwald> | yes |
| 17:31:36 | <tomsmeding> | dminuoso: but I see, thanks :) |
| 17:31:56 | <tomsmeding> | maerwald: it sure goes faster if I let it use more cores, so why 1 |
| 17:31:59 | <monochrom> | The history of GHC, Cabal, and cabal-install are full of provably wrong analogies from gcc, make, and autoconf+automake+etc. |
| 17:32:13 | <sm[m]> | @where+ lowmem stack build ONEPKG -j1 --ghc-options='+RTS -M1G -RTS' |
| 17:32:13 | <lambdabot> | I will remember. |
| 17:32:13 | <monochrom> | For example -O1 and -O2 |
| 17:32:31 | <sm[m]> | just a start, feel free to add the cabal command |
| 17:32:41 | <monochrom> | (As it turns out, ghc's -O1 and 2 have different intentions from gcc's) |
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| 17:33:12 | <maerwald> | tomsmeding: defaults are not about "let's see how fast we can go before OOM" |
| 17:33:20 | <maerwald> | defaults should be safe |
| 17:33:21 | <monochrom> | For example, the broken analogies I point out in http://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/cabal-cabal.xhtml#install |
| 17:33:22 | <maerwald> | on any machine |
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| 17:33:36 | <tomsmeding> | maerwald: no default whatsoever is safe on my 1GB VPS |
| 17:33:42 | <maerwald> | tomsmeding: you can easily tell cabal to use ncpu |
| 17:33:46 | <tomsmeding> | or for that matter on a 2GB system if you're building vector or aeson |
| 17:33:49 | <tomsmeding> | but I see your point :p |
| 17:33:53 | <tomsmeding> | -j is an easy flag to pass |
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| 17:33:59 | <dolio> | I.E. earliest lambda calculus was sort of like the more modern 'logical framework'. Then it seems like Church and Turing realized that 'lambda definable functions' were a useful class to consider. Then it seems like Turing tried to make a version of lambda calculus that was about rewriting symbol strings on a tape, rather than substitution (which is a lot more complicated). And that leads to Turing machines. |
| 17:36:26 | <dminuoso> | % :t let split = dimap id (\a -> (a, a)) id in \l r -> split >>> first' l >>> second' r -- tomsmeding |
| 17:36:26 | <yahb> | dminuoso: (a -> b1) -> (a -> b2) -> a -> (b1, b2) |
| 17:36:30 | <Ariakenom> | in my head I had that turing machines and lambda calculus were independent and at the same time |
| 17:37:10 | <tomsmeding> | dminuoso: that's nice gymnastics :p |
| 17:37:28 | <tomsmeding> | but honestly what I was looking for was the nice combinator, which apparently is indeed still only in Arrow |
| 17:37:29 | <monochrom> | In the ncpus case, cabal-install should be drawing inspiration from make, not gcc, for the default value. make doesn't default to spamming multiple gcc instances. |
| 17:37:31 | <dolio> | Ariakenom: Right. But I think that's not actually the case. At least that wasn't the impression I got when I looked into it. |
| 17:37:51 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: what is the nice combinator? |
| 17:37:59 | <tomsmeding> | (&&&) |
| 17:38:16 | <tomsmeding> | but this is of course more general, which you're restricting artificially to (,) using the (\a -> (a,a)) |
| 17:38:24 | <dolio> | Before Turing machines, Turing wrote a paper that was basically how you'd build a Turing machine that does lambda calculus reduction, to spell out how substitution and stuff would actually be implemented. |
| 17:38:49 | <tomsmeding> | monochrom: gcc does not parallelise, so there is no inspiration to draw from there |
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| 17:39:27 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: hold on, let me fix that |
| 17:39:31 | <tomsmeding> | on the other hand, rust's cargo does also default to building dependencies in parallel, and in fact the rustc compiler itself parallelises builds sometimes, if possible |
| 17:39:35 | <dolio> | E.G. with tape symbols (, ), λ and some other conventions I forget. |
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| 17:39:55 | <tomsmeding> | and I believe there are people that are sometimes trying to parallelise ghc itself |
| 17:40:17 | <monochrom> | Well, I guess the real historical inspiration was: the text package was taking forever to build, so let's default cabal to spam multiple ghc instances to build other packages at the same time. |
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| 17:40:35 | <maerwald> | sm[m]: would be cool if lambdabot could translate between cabal and stack commands |
| 17:41:31 | <monochrom> | Haha I can see an endian war on that. |
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| 17:42:05 | <monochrom> | The cabal->stack command, should it be called @uncabal or should it be called @stack ? >:) |
| 17:42:13 | <Ariakenom> | dolio: we need to reach the truth! do you have any sources? afaict lc and tm are both invented around 1936. so there isnt much time to work with in pre internet measurements |
| 17:42:48 | <maerwald> | I'm pretty sure I can re-implement most of stack with a cabal shell wrapper :p |
| 17:42:48 | <dolio> | Ariakenom: Wikipedia has the relevant papers cited in some articles. |
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| 17:43:15 | <maerwald> | that might be a funny project, actually |
| 17:43:18 | <dolio> | I forget which. Maybe the page on Turing has his paper about the more mechanical lambda calculus. |
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| 17:43:51 | <tomsmeding> | maerwald: for some definition of "funny" :p |
| 17:44:09 | <maerwald> | tomsmeding: `ghcup install stack` is already funny |
| 17:44:25 | <dolio> | Anyhow, Turing was Church's student, so they weren't completely inependent regardless. |
| 17:44:30 | <dminuoso> | % :t (***) -- tomsmeding |
| 17:44:31 | <yahb> | dminuoso: (Category cat, Strong cat) => cat a b1 -> cat c b2 -> cat (a, c) (b1, b2) |
| 17:44:34 | <dminuoso> | This is half of it |
| 17:44:38 | <maerwald> | just need to go the last mile |
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| 17:46:13 | <tomsmeding> | % :t ((join (,) .) .) . (***) |
| 17:46:13 | <yahb> | tomsmeding: (a -> b1) -> (c -> b2) -> (a, c) -> ((b1, b2), (b1, b2)) |
| 17:46:16 | <tomsmeding> | oh |
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| 17:47:34 | <dminuoso> | % :t let split = dimap id (\a -> (a, a)) Control.Category.id in \l r -> split >>> first' l >>> second' r -- tomsmeding |
| 17:47:34 | <yahb> | dminuoso: (Category cat, Strong cat) => cat a b1 -> cat a b2 -> cat a (b1, b2) |
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| 17:47:42 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: I just accidentally used the wrong `id`. That was all |
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| 17:49:19 | <tomsmeding> | @pl \f g x -> (f *** g) (x, x) |
| 17:49:20 | <lambdabot> | flip flip (join (,)) . ((.) .) . (***) |
| 17:49:23 | <dminuoso> | % :t dimap id (\a -> (a, a)) Control.Category.id |
| 17:49:23 | <yahb> | dminuoso: (Profunctor p, Category p) => p b (b, b) |
| 17:49:24 | <tomsmeding> | oh |
| 17:49:33 | <Ariakenom> | dolio: yes but after 36 right? |
| 17:49:49 | <tomsmeding> | dminuoso: ah yes that one is more general |
| 17:50:16 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: so the basic idea is to split, and then use first' and second' to go over each side. :) |
| 17:50:17 | <Ariakenom> | or rather .. after lc publication |
| 17:50:35 | <tomsmeding> | dminuoso: yes that makes sense |
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| 17:52:28 | <dolio> | Ariakenom: Not sure. I guess he could have been fiddling with lambda calculus before becoming a formal student of Church's. |
| 17:52:45 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: Also, equivalently ArrowChoice corresponds to Category + Choice |
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| 17:53:53 | <dminuoso> | % join = dimap (either id id) Control.Category.id Control.Category.id |
| 17:53:54 | <yahb> | dminuoso: |
| 17:53:55 | <dminuoso> | % :t join |
| 17:53:55 | <yahb> | dminuoso: (Profunctor p, Category p) => p (Either c c) c |
| 17:54:27 | <dminuoso> | % :t \l -> left' l >>> right' r -- this is (+++) |
| 17:54:28 | <yahb> | dminuoso: ; <interactive>:1:26: error: Variable not in scope: r :: cat c b1 |
| 17:54:32 | <dminuoso> | % :t \l r -> left' l >>> right' r -- this is (+++) |
| 17:54:33 | <yahb> | dminuoso: (Category cat, Choice cat) => cat a b1 -> cat c b2 -> cat (Either a c) (Either b1 b2) |
| 17:54:46 | <dminuoso> | And ||| is constructed just like (&&&) above |
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| 17:55:35 | <Ariakenom> | dolio: they both proved the undecidability of their systems independently in 1936 with their own systems. but tm might be based on lc |
| 17:56:03 | <Ariakenom> | *undecidability using their systems. the result is universal |
| 17:56:30 | <dminuoso> | % :t \l r -> left' l >>> right' r >>> join -- tomsmeding |
| 17:56:30 | <yahb> | dminuoso: (Category cat, Choice cat) => cat a c1 -> cat c2 c1 -> cat (Either a c2) c1 |
| 17:56:49 | <Ariakenom> | History of Lambda-calculus and Combinatory Logic http://www.users.waitrose.com/~hindley/SomePapers_PDFs/2006CarHin,HistlamRp.pdf |
| 17:57:20 | <tomsmeding> | dminuoso: neat building blocks |
| 17:57:38 | <tomsmeding> | it definitely looks like a nicer, more principled way of doing things |
| 17:58:06 | <tomsmeding> | it's a bit like working with combinators (as opposed to a language with variables) |
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| 17:58:52 | <dolio> | Ariakenom: Maybe he came up with Turing machines first and then tried to show how you could mechanize lambda calculus with them. The papers I was able to find were published in the opposite order of that, though. But I'm not a historian, and it's hard to find papers that old. |
| 18:00:20 | <Zemyla> | @let newtype Sorted a = Sorted { runSorted :: (a -> a -> Ordering) -> [a] } |
| 18:00:21 | <lambdabot> | Defined. |
| 18:00:41 | <Ariakenom> | some forms of LC seems to have existed for a decade or so before so your story makes sense |
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| 18:01:04 | <dminuoso> | What I find quite interesting, is how Turing, Gödel, Post, Church and Curry came up with equivalent computational in a very short time period. |
| 18:01:06 | <dolio> | Yeah, LC goes back at least to 32, I think. But it wasn't really for computation at that point. |
| 18:01:22 | <dminuoso> | (Or rather with models, that later turned out to be computational models that were equivalent in power= |
| 18:01:23 | → | micro joins (~micro@user/micro) |
| 18:02:22 | <Zemyla> | @let mergeWith cmp = let { go [] bs = bs, go as [] = as, go as@(a:as') bs@(b:bs') = if cmp a b == GT then b:go as bs' else a:go as' bs } in go |
| 18:02:23 | <lambdabot> | Parse failed: Parse error: , |
| 18:02:35 | <tomsmeding> | Zemyla: ; not , |
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| 18:02:55 | <dolio> | I think that is probably not that miraculous, either. They were probably communicating, even if by proxies. |
| 18:03:06 | <Ariakenom> | "The λ-calculus was invented in about 1928 by Alonzo Church, and was firstpublished in[Church, 1932]." |
| 18:04:10 | <dolio> | So there were probably informal ideas that they all were aware of, but came up with their own particulars. |
| 18:04:38 | <Zemyla> | @let mergeWith cmp = let { go [] bs = bs; go as [] = as; go as@(a:as') bs@(b:bs') = if cmp a b == GT then b:go as bs' else a:go as' bs } in go |
| 18:04:39 | <lambdabot> | Defined. |
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| 18:06:09 | <Zemyla> | @let instance Functor Sorted where { fmap f (Sorted m) = Sorted (\cmp -> f <$> m (\a b -> cmp (f a) (f b)); a <$ Sorted m = Sorted (\_ -> a <$ m (\_ _ -> EQ)) } |
| 18:06:09 | <lambdabot> | Parse failed: Parse error: ; |
| 18:06:21 | <Zemyla> | @let instance Functor Sorted where { fmap f (Sorted m) = Sorted (\cmp -> f <$> m (\a b -> cmp (f a) (f b))); a <$ Sorted m = Sorted (\_ -> a <$ m (\_ _ -> EQ)) } |
| 18:06:22 | <lambdabot> | .L.hs:171:17: error: |
| 18:06:22 | <lambdabot> | Ambiguous occurrence ‘Sorted’ |
| 18:06:22 | <lambdabot> | It could refer to |
| 18:06:30 | <Zemyla> | @undef |
| 18:06:31 | <lambdabot> | Undefined. |
| 18:06:36 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: But yeah, these are quite simple. Arrow I never really understood, perhaps that's just because I never used any arrow libraries - I hear this used to be a thing for some frp libraries. |
| 18:07:02 | <Zemyla> | @let newtype Sorting a = Sorting { runSorting :: (a -> a -> Ordering) -> [a] } |
| 18:07:03 | <lambdabot> | Defined. |
| 18:07:06 | <dminuoso> | Other than hxt Im not even aware of any library that exposes its users to arrows. |
| 18:07:12 | <Zemyla> | @let mergeWith cmp = let { go [] bs = bs; go as [] = as; go as@(a:as') bs@(b:bs') = if cmp a b == GT then b:go as bs' else a:go as' bs } in go |
| 18:07:14 | <lambdabot> | Defined. |
| 18:07:47 | <Zemyla> | @let instance Functor Sorting where { fmap f (Sorting m) = Sorting (\cmp -> f <$> m (\a b -> cmp (f a) (f b))); a <$ Sorting m = Sorting (\_ -> a <$ m (\_ _ -> EQ)) } |
| 18:07:48 | <lambdabot> | Defined. |
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| 18:10:57 | <Ariakenom> | dolio: did you have links to the LC machine paper and TM paper? |
| 18:11:22 | <dolio> | No, I looked briefly, but I'm not sure which wikipedia article they were cited on. |
| 18:11:34 | <dolio> | It's entirely possible the citations were changed, too. |
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| 18:15:04 | <dolio> | I seem to recall it was after Church's paper on an undecidable problem in number theory, though, so it'd put it around 36 at the earliest. |
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| 18:22:01 | <Zemyla> | @let fromSorting (Sorting m) = m compare |
| 18:22:03 | <lambdabot> | Defined. |
| 18:22:27 | <Zemyla> | @let toSorting a = Sorting (const a) |
| 18:22:28 | <lambdabot> | Defined. |
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| 18:23:32 | <Ariakenom> | dolio: the TM paper was released 36 tho. I thought you said the order was the opposite |
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| 18:24:20 | <Zemyla> | > fromSorting $ mconcat $ fmap toSorting [5, 1, 4, 2, 3] |
| 18:24:22 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 18:24:22 | <lambdabot> | • No instance for (Num [()]) arising from a use of ‘e_151423’ |
| 18:24:22 | <lambdabot> | • In the expression: e_151423 |
| 18:24:30 | <Zemyla> | :t toSorting |
| 18:24:32 | <lambdabot> | [a] -> Sorting a |
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| 18:24:40 | <dolio> | Ariakenom: Maybe the TM paper I found was not the earliest TM paper. |
| 18:24:51 | <Zemyla> | @let toSorting' a = Sorting (const [a]) |
| 18:24:52 | <dolio> | Or was a republish or something. |
| 18:24:52 | <lambdabot> | Defined. |
| 18:25:02 | <Zemyla> | > fromSorting $ mconcat $ fmap toSorting' [5, 1, 4, 2, 3] |
| 18:25:04 | <lambdabot> | [1,2,3,4,5] |
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| 18:32:13 | <Zemyla> | Is there a reason why tail is partial? Couldn't tail [] = []? |
| 18:32:41 | <Clint> | Zemyla: what would its type be then? |
| 18:32:59 | <Clint> | nevermind, i misread |
| 18:33:17 | <Zemyla> | @let tail' [] = []; tail' (_:as) = as |
| 18:33:19 | <lambdabot> | Defined. |
| 18:33:21 | <Zemyla> | :t tail' |
| 18:33:22 | <lambdabot> | [a] -> [a] |
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| 18:36:43 | <dolio> | Ariakenom: The TM part wasn't my main point anyway. That the history of lambda calculus makes Curry-Howard very unsurprising was the main point. |
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| 18:40:29 | <crazazy> | so i was wondering: is this considered bad practice? https://ttm.sh/FU4.png |
| 18:41:06 | <tomsmeding> | Zemyla: I guess the same reason that the 'rm' command-line tool throws an error when you try to remove a non-existent file except silently exiting |
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| 18:41:59 | <tomsmeding> | and you can always use 'drop 1' instead |
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| 19:34:08 | <sm[m]> | -j1 used to be the default and everyone wanted to know how to make it go faster |
| 19:34:09 | <sm[m]> | really, it should detect when it's exceeding your ram and do the right thing |
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| 19:35:25 | <vaibhavsagar[m]> | I wonder how much GHC builds can take advantage of something like https://github.com/nelhage/llama |
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| 19:35:57 | <sm[m]> | maerwald: a translation guide/bot is a great idea. Maybe even a workalike ui, things are confusing already so why not. :) |
| 19:36:16 | <davean> | vaibhavsagar[m]: zero? |
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| 19:37:05 | <davean> | or put another way, you'd have to have an amazingly outdated computer for it to not harm compilation significantly |
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| 19:47:43 | <exarkun> | using https://hackage.haskell.org/package/statvfs-0.2/docs/System-Posix-StatVFS.html but it seems dead and it needs to patches to build nowadays. anyone know of a maintained statvfs binding? |
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| 20:56:48 | <siers> | tomsmeding, users guide indeed seems like a good resource :) |
| 20:56:58 | <siers> | tomsmeding, thanks for recommending |
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| 21:12:18 | <Franciman> | Hi all, would you program in a programming language only allowing to license the software with AGPL |
| 21:12:20 | <Franciman> | ? |
| 21:12:58 | <Franciman> | maerwald: I read your answer to the 'ghcup satisfy' issue, I would be interested, but right now I have 0 time |
| 21:13:24 | <glguy> | Franciman: of course not |
| 21:13:28 | <Franciman> | as soon as I get free, I'd like to help, though, so I'll stay updated in the meanwhile |
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| 21:14:01 | <Franciman> | glguy: lol |
| 21:14:12 | <Franciman> | fortunately you answered in this way |
| 21:14:19 | Franciman | is happy |
| 21:14:21 | <Franciman> | thanks |
| 21:15:32 | <Franciman> | I hope to start a trend, and make the world a bit more balanced |
| 21:15:34 | <Franciman> | bb |
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| 21:25:53 | <[exa]> | Franciman: just curious, what programming language imposes AGPL? |
| 21:26:31 | <allbery_b> | they left already |
| 21:26:39 | <allbery_b> | oh, came back too |
| 21:26:54 | <Franciman> | hi allbery_b |
| 21:26:56 | <Franciman> | here I am |
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| 21:27:08 | <Franciman> | [exa]: none |
| 21:27:10 | <Franciman> | it would be stupid |
| 21:27:15 | <allbery_b> | and when did I lose my nick? sigh |
| 21:27:20 | allbery_b | is now known as geekosaur |
| 21:27:44 | <Franciman> | but it is amusing, in a way |
| 21:28:07 | <Franciman> | programming languages come even before smartphones |
| 21:28:13 | <Franciman> | internet is governed by FAANG |
| 21:28:15 | <keltono> | Franciman: Wait why? It's not like programs made in an AGPL'd programming language would be subject to the AGPL |
| 21:28:23 | <keltono> | presumably only the interpreter/compiler would be |
| 21:28:31 | <Franciman> | but smartphones are governed by apple others |
| 21:28:35 | <Franciman> | so apple can stop the other faang |
| 21:28:37 | <Franciman> | but |
| 21:28:39 | <Franciman> | again |
| 21:28:42 | <Franciman> | programming languages are a step above |
| 21:28:48 | <Franciman> | without them you can't program our world |
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| 21:43:49 | <monochrom> | This could be an interesting slippery slope question. You can start with a computer-aided design system whose feature set and possible creations are such that people are OK "yeah those creations are AGPL'ed". |
| 21:44:39 | <monochrom> | Now, if you posit that no such thing is possible, sure, I can see that. But I can also imagine that such a thing may be possible and acceptable. |
| 21:45:12 | <Franciman> | it would be extremely hard, monochrom |
| 21:45:15 | <Franciman> | imagine fpcomplete |
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| 21:45:24 | <Franciman> | or google |
| 21:45:25 | <monochrom> | In the latter case, there is a continuous transformation from that feature set to the feature set of what we think of as "programming language". So now where do you draw the line? >:) |
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| 21:45:49 | <Franciman> | they would copy the ideas of your production system |
| 21:45:51 | <chisui> | Hello, I'm using parseExp from haskell-src-meta in a QuasiQuoter. How do I get the resulting expression to resolve names in ne context of the calling Module instead of the one that defines the QuasiQuoter? |
| 21:45:55 | <monochrom> | (btw \∩/ homotopy!) |
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| 21:48:31 | <monochrom> | Another scenerio is a certain GPL fan made a kickass Markov chain and now wants to impose "all outputs are AGPL'ed" or something before allowing you to use the Markov chain program. |
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| 23:45:57 | <ecameron[m]> | Hey, not sure if this is the currently most active haskell channel but I'm having some issues with writing a simple parser using Text.ParserCombinators.ReadP. I'm just experimenting to see if I've got the concepts down. I belive there is something wrong with my `add` and `mul` parsers but I don't know what, https://paste.tomsmeding.com/hfFJmTiY |
| 23:46:54 | <monochrom> | Did you run into an error message? Did you run into unexpected behaviour? |
| 23:48:04 | <Axman6> | you have char '(' twice |
| 23:48:09 | <ecameron[m]> | It just returns `Nothing` on the input, even just running `runParser expr "add 1 2"` returns nothing |
| 23:48:12 | <Axman6> | probably want char ')' |
| 23:48:28 | <monochrom> | Uh why is mul doing string "add" and Add, add doing string "mult" and Mult? :) |
| 23:48:29 | <Axman6> | (that isn't your problem, but it is a problem :) |
| 23:49:15 | <Axman6> | what in the parser is handling the spaces after the string "add" or "mult"? |
| 23:49:47 | <ecameron[m]> | Ah, maybe I need a `skipSpaces` after that too |
| 23:50:22 | <Axman6> | IS there a IsString instance for ReadP? writing "(" *> expr <* ")" might make picking up these small errors a bit easier |
| 23:50:33 | <Axman6> | but for now, get this style working |
| 23:51:03 | <Axman6> | much1, on nom nom |
| 23:53:07 | <Axman6> | @hoogle ReadP |
| 23:53:08 | <lambdabot> | module Text.ParserCombinators.ReadP |
| 23:53:08 | <lambdabot> | Text.ParserCombinators.ReadP data ReadP a |
| 23:53:08 | <lambdabot> | BasePrelude data ReadP a |
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| 23:54:25 | <ecameron[m]> | adding `skipSpaces` doesn't change the output (`runParser expr "add 1 2"` still returns `Nothing`) but I do feel like it's getting closer to what the issue is |
| 23:55:47 | <Axman6> | try building it up from parts - waht does runParser (string "add") "add 1 2" return? then runParser (do {string "add"; skipSpaces}) "add 1 2" etc. |
| 23:55:53 | <Axman6> | in ghci |
| 23:57:04 | <Axman6> | looks like there's several places where spaces aren't being handled |
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| 23:59:50 | <Axman6> | maybe come up with a rule for where spaces should be handled; every bit of syntax which is specific to a parser should handle its own spaces, so always parse the spaces after you use `string` but if you call another parser it is responsible for any spaces that follow it |
All times are in UTC on 2021-06-16.