Logs on 2021-06-20 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 01:00:28 | <DigitalKiwi> | https://mostlyabsurd.com/files/eflister.hs is that local enough |
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| 01:25:31 | <DigitalKiwi> | using an overlay you could use whatever version for one nix pulls in |
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| 01:26:34 | <qrpnxz> | i was thinking about how applicative would work for uncurried functions if you didn't have liftA*, and it occurred to me you'd use something like f <$> sequenceA (ma, mb, ...), but you'd like an NTraversable for that thought hmm |
| 01:28:59 | <qrpnxz> | i don't even know how to generically uncurry a function |
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| 01:34:33 | <ski> | @type uncurry (liftA2 (,)) |
| 01:34:34 | <lambdabot> | Applicative f => (f a, f b) -> f (a, b) |
| 01:34:57 | <boxscape> | qrpnxz do you mean like one function that can uncurry functions with any number of arguments? |
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| 01:35:39 | <qrpnxz> | yes |
| 01:35:50 | <boxscape> | I believe it requires a clever type class and overlapping instances |
| 01:37:12 | <boxscape> | (functions with a variable number of arguments generally are not well supported in Haskell) |
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| 01:37:32 | <ski> | @type uncurry . liftA2 . curry |
| 01:37:33 | <lambdabot> | Applicative f => ((a, b) -> c) -> (f a, f b) -> f c |
| 01:37:38 | <ski> | @type (. uncurry (liftA2 (,))) . fmap |
| 01:37:39 | <lambdabot> | Applicative f => ((a, b1) -> b2) -> (f a, f b1) -> f b2 |
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| 01:38:29 | <ski> | (all functions in Haskell take a single argument as input) |
| 01:38:46 | <qrpnxz> | (yes) |
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| 01:40:21 | <boxscape> | yeah I suppose I meant that more in terms of an abstract interface |
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| 01:41:34 | ski | . o O ( defaulty & non-ground representations ) |
| 01:43:32 | <qrpnxz> | reason i'm thinking about this is because i got no idea how you'd do applicatives in mainstream language. |
| 01:43:42 | <qrpnxz> | but maybe that's just utter lost cause lol |
| 01:45:50 | <ski> | if you can manipulate argument lists, you should probably be able to do it |
| 01:46:44 | <ski> | with a proper macro system, one could possibly use that |
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| 01:48:22 | <qrpnxz> | with a proper macro system you can do anything lol |
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| 01:56:56 | <boxscape> | Just run your favorite language through CPP before you compile it |
| 01:56:58 | <boxscape> | that's how Haskell did it |
| 01:57:40 | <qrpnxz> | xD |
| 01:58:16 | <geekosaur> | thought you wanted a proper macro system :þ |
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| 01:59:48 | <boxscape> | CPP is the only macro system of which I know that it's purely functional, I'll take it |
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| 02:01:50 | <qrpnxz> | I don't so how, say, scheme macros would not be purely functional |
| 02:01:53 | <qrpnxz> | *see |
| 02:02:02 | <qrpnxz> | or almost any macro system |
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| 02:02:38 | <boxscape> | you're probably right, but I've last used scheme 8 years ago, and haven't used any other macro system outside of CPP, so I stand by what I said about my state of knowledge :P |
| 02:03:06 | <Guest43> | Are programs that are defined by a bunch of functions that return ‘State ProgramState Value’ often able to be rewritten using continuation passing style where you return functions that are ‘Value -> ProgramState’? |
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| 02:06:38 | <ski> | boxscape : `syntax-rules' ? |
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| 02:07:04 | <boxscape> | ski I'm not sure what that's referring to |
| 02:07:22 | <ski> | it's the R⁵RS macro system |
| 02:07:36 | <boxscape> | ah. I'm not familiar with that |
| 02:07:56 | <boxscape> | wait |
| 02:08:08 | <boxscape> | I'm not familiar with the name R⁵RS |
| 02:08:18 | <ski> | it's not that composable, though, due to being call-by-name |
| 02:08:59 | <ski> | (you basically have to write non-trivial macros in CPS .. come to think of it, this also reminds me of writing server scripts in CPS) |
| 02:09:00 | <boxscape> | so iow `syntax-rules' is Scheme's macro system? |
| 02:09:39 | <ski> | Revised Revised Revised Revised Revised Report on the algorithmic language Scheme |
| 02:09:59 | <boxscape> | a very principled approach to nomenclature |
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| 02:10:11 | <ski> | it's one Scheme macro system. the one that's standardized in R⁵RS |
| 02:10:15 | <boxscape> | I see |
| 02:10:16 | <ski> | there's various others, too |
| 02:10:26 | <boxscape> | I don't know which one I learned when I took the FP course in Uni |
| 02:11:11 | <ski> | `syntax-case',explicit renaming,syntactic closures,`defmacro' (low-level, unhygienic) |
| 02:11:26 | ski | probably forgets some |
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| 02:13:06 | <boxscape> | defmacro sounds most familiar to me, I think |
| 02:13:22 | <ski> | it comes from the other Lisps |
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| 02:13:28 | <boxscape> | I see |
| 02:13:47 | <ski> | the other Scheme macro systems support hygiene, though |
| 02:14:04 | <ski> | (which is basically lexical/static scoping, for macros) |
| 02:14:20 | <boxscape> | right, okay |
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| 02:18:11 | <ski> | (there's two parts of hygiene. (a) an identifier introduced by a macro shouldn't shadow a variable of the same name, in some user-supplied expression that's spliced into the macro expansion. (b) an identifier that's referred to by the macto body (the part that the macro expands to) should refer to what that identifier means, in the macro-definition scope, not what it might refer to at the macro invokation |
| 02:18:17 | <ski> | site) |
| 02:18:45 | <ski> | ((a) can generally be fixed by using `gensym' (although it's easy to forget to use it, so it's errorprone). (b) can't) |
| 02:18:49 | <boxscape> | got it |
| 02:19:01 | <boxscape> | ok |
| 02:19:20 | <qrpnxz> | RnRS is the Revised^n Report on the algorithmic language Scheme aka just Scheme, idk why ski is being so unclear |
| 02:19:32 | <qrpnxz> | syntax-rules is the name of a form you use to define macros |
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| 02:20:00 | <boxscape> | okay |
| 02:20:59 | <ski> | well, boxscape asked about R⁵RS, not RⁿRS .. |
| 02:21:35 | <qrpnxz> | just replace n |
| 02:21:49 | <ski> | `define-syntax' defines the macro. `syntax-rules' (or some other alternative form) is used to specify the macro |
| 02:22:02 | <qrpnxz> | yes |
| 02:22:15 | <boxscape> | what is the difference between definition and specification |
| 02:22:22 | <ski> | (there's also `let-syntax' and `letrec-syntax' for locally scoped macros) |
| 02:22:28 | <qrpnxz> | the same as declaration and implementation |
| 02:22:31 | <boxscape> | ah |
| 02:22:41 | <ski> | you'd still use the same `syntax-rules' form, for either of those three |
| 02:23:08 | <qrpnxz> | syntax-rules is like the lambda of macros |
| 02:23:11 | <ski> | `syntax-rules' allows you to pattern-match on the form of the macro invokation, and to specify a corresponding template |
| 02:23:34 | <Guest43> | Is a program defined by functions that return ‘State ProgramState Value’ often able to be rewritten using continuation passing style where the continuations are ‘Value -> ProgramState’ |
| 02:23:40 | <ski> | hm. not quite a macro lambda |
| 02:23:57 | <ski> | (iirc Oleg did some macrology on macro lambdas ..) |
| 02:24:02 | <ski> | @where oleg |
| 02:24:02 | <lambdabot> | http://okmij.org/ftp/ |
| 02:24:46 | <ski> | Guest43 : i guess you could use CPS, but i'm not sure why |
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| 02:26:39 | <Guest43> | Ski: maybe if I had to account for the possibility of error it would be easier to do this then instead start using the EitherT State transformer? Is this a sensical reason? |
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| 02:30:13 | <Guest43> | I happen to have a program just like this where I am using an ‘EitherT Error (State ProgramState) Value’. In reading about denotational semantics continuation passing style was introduced as a way to more elegantly deal with the possibility of error. I am wondering if it is worth pursuing for my program. |
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| 02:31:51 | <Guest43> | s/EitherT/ExceptT |
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| 02:36:12 | <Cajun> | so it appears something i did earlier when trying to install accelerate has screwed a package up. when i try to load `Data.Array.Accelerate` in some random GHCi, it will error out with ambiguous packages. when i `cabal repl [packageWithAccelerate]` then import it (the program doesnt explicitly import it, but the build depends on it), it doesnt |
| 02:36:13 | <Cajun> | complain at all. https://paste.tomsmeding.com/tecJYoCE |
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| 02:45:30 | <Guest43> | Hmm maybe my continuations would actually instead have to be ‘Value -> Either Error ProgramState’? I am starting to think this won’t make things any easier then using a monad transformer. |
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| 02:46:05 | <Guest43> | Cps is reminding me a lot of monads… |
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| 03:07:36 | <dsal> | Guest43: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/mtl-2.2.2/docs/Control-Monad-Cont.html |
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| 03:57:25 | <Axman6> | I'm trying to think of the best way to implement code similar to what's being done in this python code for computing the discrete logarithm of g^m mod p, and wondering what sort of structure would let me efficiently access previously computed results: https://github.com/microsoft/electionguard-python/blob/f0a25b0ac99fac5c8d4e3545055dbdd05968d021/src/electionguard/dlog.py#L16 |
| 03:57:54 | <Axman6> | so I was wondering if a Data.Map.Lazy would work, but I have a feeling it won't be lazy enough |
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| 04:00:11 | <Axman6> | making a lazy list isn't too difficult but then I get linear time time lookup |
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| 04:03:43 | <c_wraith> | Data.Map.Lazy is fine if you can afford to insert all the keys at once |
| 04:04:03 | <Axman6> | I would prefer not to, but it might be feasible |
| 04:05:49 | <c_wraith> | you could also use one of the memoization packages that supports infinite tries |
| 04:08:52 | <Axman6> | yeah |
| 04:09:13 | <Axman6> | I'll probably do that |
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| 04:31:44 | <qrpnxz> | Just learned how to use the ST monad! Epic! |
| 04:31:57 | <qrpnxz> | i didn't know you could get this imperative in haskell |
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| 04:34:36 | <qrpnxz> | accumulating numbers epic-style: |
| 04:34:38 | <qrpnxz> | runST $ newSTRef 0 >>= \n -> traverse (modifySTRef n . (+)) [1..144] >> readSTRef n |
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| 04:48:55 | <Axman6> | urgh, ius ther some good documentation for using MemoTrie somewhere? the package gives nothing useful |
| 04:49:33 | <Axman6> | I remember there being some truck for recursive functions but it's not clear where to find it |
| 04:50:12 | <Axman6> | trick* |
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| 04:56:54 | <glguy> | Axman6: you'll do something like: let f = memo \x -> ... stuff ... f z .... |
| 04:57:44 | mnrmnaugh | is now known as ox- |
| 04:58:51 | <Axman6> | so I currently have this: dlog' :: ElementModP -> Int |
| 04:58:52 | <Axman6> | dlog' (ElementMod e0) = go 1 0 where go !x !n = if e0 == x then n else go ((x*g) `mod` p) (n+1) |
| 04:59:40 | <Axman6> | I tried this: dlog''' (ElementMod e) = memoFix (\go (a,n) -> if a == e then n else go ((a*g) `mod` p, n+1)) (1,0) |
| 04:59:59 | <Axman6> | but even calling the same thingexpression twice with that takes the same amount of time each time |
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| 05:01:29 | <Axman6> | wondering if I should try multiplying by g^-1 and counting backwards, so to speak |
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| 05:05:49 | <glguy> | Axman6: what expression did you call twice? |
| 05:06:07 | <Axman6> | dlog' (ElementMod (expFast g 4000000 p)) |
| 05:06:11 | <glguy> | I mean you don't "call expressions" but what did you do |
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| 05:06:31 | <glguy> | dlog' isn't being memorized |
| 05:06:34 | <glguy> | memoized |
| 05:06:46 | <glguy> | it just happens to be using memoization internally in its implementation |
| 05:06:55 | <Axman6> | indeed |
| 05:07:09 | <qrpnxz> | accumulating number epic-style IO edition: |
| 05:07:11 | <qrpnxz> | newIORef 0 >>= \n -> foldMap (liftA2 (>>) (modifyIORef n . (+)) (putStrLn . show)) [1..144] >> readIORef n |
| 05:07:25 | <qrpnxz> | yay! |
| 05:08:04 | <qrpnxz> | i went full galaxy brain with that liftA2 (>>) |
| 05:08:16 | <qrpnxz> | i'm thinking applicative! |
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| 05:12:02 | <Axman6> | I think I have something that's working... by using a slightly different algorithm |
| 05:12:25 | <Axman6> | (and lots of RAM) |
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| 05:13:26 | <Axman6> | hmm, ok, this is super slow... |
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| 05:14:47 | <Axman6> | I'm trying dlogDown = memo $ \e -> if e == 1 then 0 else 1 + dlogDown ((e*g') `mod` p) (where g' = g^-1 so counting down instead of up, which avoids needing to pass around n... but probably makes a massive thunk) |
| 05:15:38 | <Axman6> | ok, 35GB is too much... |
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| 05:22:55 | <Axman6> | ok! I ended up sort of memoising it myself, but now have: if I have computed n, the lookup for n+1 is very fast |
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| 05:24:17 | <Axman6> | glguy: https://gist.github.com/axman6/96475e7068f724f87db36a2a4e6c8758 |
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| 06:08:37 | <Rembane> | tomsmeding: A year ago the Pałka paper was the state of the art. I haven't really followed the field since then. What parts do you think are most ad hoc? |
| 06:10:03 | <Guest9> | anyone uses spreadsheet? |
| 06:10:09 | <Guest9> | or database? |
| 06:10:38 | <Axman6> | I think most of us have probably used spreadsheets and databases at some point. maybe ask your question and we can help you? |
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| 06:13:12 | <Guest9> | i want to store data for 2 projects(A & B), data is not so big that it cant be visually impossible to see. around 20 columns -100 rows for each project. Out of 20 let us says 10+ columns are same across A & B. 5+ columns are slightly different (or can be derived from vice versa) & rest columns(~5) are completely different. |
| 06:13:46 | <Guest9> | in this case, while entering data, i feel Master sheet containing both A & B project data is quite useful. |
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| 06:14:09 | <Axman6> | could a cnv be enough? |
| 06:14:10 | <Guest9> | (instead of separating worksheet for A & B projects initially) |
| 06:14:13 | <Axman6> | csv* |
| 06:14:42 | <Guest9> | but when data is ready and i want to send to others, i need to separate them into each file/spreadsheet |
| 06:14:46 | <Guest9> | so what is best way out? |
| 06:14:52 | <Guest9> | the story doesnt end here. |
| 06:15:15 | <Guest9> | when others suggest me some changes, sometimes it is better to work on master sheet |
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| 06:15:53 | <Guest9> | while sometimes (based on type of feedback/comments from others), it is better to work on master sheet so that i can have both project A & B in front of my eyes in a single page. |
| 06:16:40 | <Guest9> | s/when others..../when others suggest me some changes, sometimes it is better to work on INDIVIDUAL sheet (INSTEAD OF MASTER) |
| 06:17:17 | <Guest9> | am i making some sense? |
| 06:17:35 | <Guest9> | Axman6 yes, csv is fine too. |
| 06:18:02 | <Guest9> | but i dont know any csv editor, either i have seen google docs or office excel or at most libereoffice calc |
| 06:18:32 | <Axman6> | is therer anything wrong with those? excel/libreoffice should be find for making edits to csvs |
| 06:18:48 | <Guest9> | ok |
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| 06:39:29 | <Guest9> | is it possible to customize serial number=line numbers in any code editor/IDE? |
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| 07:06:10 | <sm[m]> | Guest9: in most spreadsheets you can toggle filtering rows by the value in a particular column. That's a quick way to view just some rows, or the whole sheet |
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| 07:06:58 | <sm[m]> | but this room is mainly for discussing the Haskell programming language, did you know ? |
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| 07:21:32 | <qrpnxz> | lol, (<=<) = ((.) . (=<<)) |
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| 08:05:20 | <Guest9> | sm[m] yes. I am just looking for general idea. since there are 2 projects, there are filtering rows & columns both needed. |
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| 09:03:51 | <qrpnxz> | can you do a case where multiple patterns do the same action? |
| 09:04:33 | <ChaiTRex> | qrpnxz: Yes. |
| 09:04:39 | <qrpnxz> | how |
| 09:04:51 | <ChaiTRex> | > case 5 where 5 -> True; _ -> True |
| 09:04:52 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:8: error: parse error on input ‘where’ |
| 09:04:58 | <ChaiTRex> | > case 5 where { 5 -> True; _ -> True } |
| 09:05:00 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:8: error: parse error on input ‘where’ |
| 09:05:06 | <ChaiTRex> | > case 5 of { 5 -> True; _ -> True } |
| 09:05:08 | <lambdabot> | True |
| 09:05:29 | <ChaiTRex> | Multiple patters there produce True. |
| 09:05:49 | <qrpnxz> | obv i don't want to repeat myself is the point of the question |
| 09:06:20 | <boxscape> | qrpnxz there have been some efforts in the past to allow branches that match multiple patterns, but they haven't gone anywhere so far |
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| 09:06:54 | <qrpnxz> | of all things, didn't expect the good ol' switch statement to be the thing haskell didn't have |
| 09:06:56 | <qrpnxz> | amazin |
| 09:07:32 | <boxscape> | in practice I tend to something like `case x of A -> foo; B -> something; C -> foo; D -> foo where foo = ...` |
| 09:07:42 | <boxscape> | s/to/to do |
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| 09:08:25 | <qrpnxz> | yeah i was planning pretty much doing that thx |
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| 09:09:02 | <boxscape> | qrpnxz this is the proposal btw which got a lot of support but was given up on by the author https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/43 |
| 09:12:27 | <qrpnxz> | hmm, seems like they had trouble adding it, maybe one day |
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| 09:13:19 | <boxscape> | yeah |
| 09:13:48 | <dminuoso> | Im just a bit sad that we have to retrofit this into existing syntax. :( |
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| 09:14:51 | <boxscape> | that's fair, but I actually think the proposed syntax isn't too bad |
| 09:15:01 | <boxscape> | I suppose ideally you'd be able to use | instead of ; |
| 09:15:05 | <boxscape> | which isn't possible anymore |
| 09:15:25 | <dminuoso> | Can you align ; with the opening ( in all cases? |
| 09:15:35 | <boxscape> | hmm that's a good question, I don't know |
| 09:15:37 | <dminuoso> | If not, I will refuse to use this. :-) |
| 09:15:45 | <dminuoso> | Can't break my indention/alignment habits |
| 09:16:05 | <dminuoso> | Was pretty annoyed when I couldn't do this with do-pattern matching |
| 09:17:19 | <boxscape> | just use explicit layout and you can indent however you want :P |
| 09:18:01 | <qrpnxz> | > (flip.when) :: Bool -> b -> (b -> ()) -> () |
| 09:18:01 | <qrpnxz> | wtf? |
| 09:18:03 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 09:18:03 | <lambdabot> | • No instance for (Typeable b0) |
| 09:18:03 | <lambdabot> | arising from a use of ‘show_M72879048522121107737’ |
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| 09:18:41 | <dminuoso> | qrpnxz: lambdabot tries to show that function. |
| 09:18:51 | <qrpnxz> | ok |
| 09:19:13 | <boxscape> | :t (flip.when) |
| 09:19:14 | <lambdabot> | Bool -> b -> (b -> ()) -> () |
| 09:19:16 | <dminuoso> | qrpnxz: and lambdabot presumably has some (Show a, Typeable b) => Show (b -> a)` instance |
| 09:19:29 | <dminuoso> | Or some such? |
| 09:20:06 | <qrpnxz> | :t when |
| 09:20:08 | <lambdabot> | Applicative f => Bool -> f () -> f () |
| 09:20:17 | <qrpnxz> | this makes no sense |
| 09:20:25 | <boxscape> | > \'a' -> 'b' |
| 09:20:27 | <lambdabot> | <Char -> Char> |
| 09:20:30 | <dminuoso> | qrpnxz: anyway. The problem is you're trying to evaluate it, so that means lamdabot tries to "wrap it with show" |
| 09:20:32 | <boxscape> | I didn't even know lambdabot does that |
| 09:20:42 | <qrpnxz> | i mean the type of flip.when makes no sense |
| 09:20:46 | <dminuoso> | % :t flip.when |
| 09:20:47 | <yahb> | dminuoso: Bool -> b -> (b -> ()) -> () |
| 09:20:48 | <qrpnxz> | not really paying attention to lambdabot |
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| 09:21:01 | <dminuoso> | % :t when |
| 09:21:01 | <yahb> | dminuoso: Applicative f => Bool -> f () -> f () |
| 09:21:12 | <dminuoso> | % :t flip |
| 09:21:13 | <yahb> | dminuoso: (a -> b -> c) -> b -> a -> c |
| 09:21:30 | <dminuoso> | qrpnxz: There is an Applicative instance for ((->) a) |
| 09:21:55 | <qrpnxz> | rip |
| 09:22:02 | <qrpnxz> | what a freak even |
| 09:22:06 | <qrpnxz> | gonna have to do it by hand |
| 09:22:07 | <qrpnxz> | :( |
| 09:22:10 | <qrpnxz> | *event |
| 09:23:30 | <dminuoso> | qrpnxz: Consider: when returns something `f ()`, if we set `f ~ ((a) ->), when :: (a -> ()) -> a -> () |
| 09:23:46 | <dminuoso> | Oh, missing a Bool |
| 09:23:53 | <dminuoso> | when :: Bool -> (a -> ()) -> a -> () |
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| 09:26:45 | <dminuoso> | boxscape: Admit, this just looks wrong: https://gist.github.com/dminuoso/a211db82b4ec14e12941bfcbaf1815b6 |
| 09:26:57 | <boxscape> | yes |
| 09:27:12 | <dminuoso> | In my code I just make the pattern match irrefutable just to satisfy my need to align everything nicely |
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| 09:27:40 | <boxscape> | hm nice trick |
| 09:29:18 | <dminuoso> | To be honest, the real reason for all of this is because Im too lazy to create intermediate data types. In the original code just have `pure Foo{..}` at the end |
| 09:30:07 | <dminuoso> | The code to the right of the bind uses a nested section parser that needs to be wrapped, so I cant just have `foo <- ...; bar <- ...; baz <- ...;` |
| 09:31:10 | <dminuoso> | Plus, if you want to do this inside ApplicativeDo, you must have the irrefutable pattern match anyway. And I use this trick in optparse-applicative in the very same project as well.. |
| 09:32:17 | <boxscape> | The _real_ reason for all this is that we still use ASCII strings to notate programs when we could be using interfaces actually based on ASTs :P |
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| 09:33:36 | <dminuoso> | Reminds me of the Haskell Weekly episode with Sandy Maguire, talking about Wingman |
| 09:33:51 | <dminuoso> | They talked about exactly this situation, part of what inspired Wingman |
| 09:34:58 | <boxscape> | there was someone a few years ago who made an interface like that which worked with a subset of haskell, but I don't remember what it was called |
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| 09:37:56 | <dminuoso> | The argument made in the podcast, was that one of the main things making writing Haskell on a tablet in the parket problematic, is how we denote so much of a program as just strings |
| 09:38:26 | <dminuoso> | (And apparently wingman was born out of the idea "couldn't we make it possible to write haskell programs on a tablet") |
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| 09:41:30 | <boxscape> | The main issue I see is that you probably still have to write down names of things, which would be much slower on a tablet, at least for me |
| 09:42:24 | <boxscape> | I've been idly wondering if you could get some benefit from a VR-based interface, but the same thing about names applies, unless you manage to make naming based on voice recognition work or something |
| 09:45:59 | <dminuoso> | For a lot of code we usually refer to existing names. |
| 09:46:17 | <dminuoso> | And the AST structure is fixed, which is why a string to represent programs is not ideal |
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| 09:46:34 | <dminuoso> | Like, if you write a case-of, you can only ever write whatever production rules the grammar has for you |
| 09:46:47 | <dminuoso> | So you could just offer these production rules with some nice interface |
| 09:46:53 | <boxscape> | yeah |
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| 09:57:17 | <mastarija> | Is there an actual paper about "Curry-Howard correspondence"? All I'm finding are wikis and presentations talking about the correspondence, but no original paper. |
| 09:57:25 | <mastarija> | Is it even a paper? |
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| 10:00:04 | <boxscape> | mastarija I believe this is it, but I haven't read it https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~crary/819-f09/Howard80.pdf |
| 10:00:13 | <boxscape> | mastarija there's some history here https://wadler.blogspot.com/2014/08/howard-on-curry-howard.html |
| 10:00:16 | <tomsmeding> | Rembane: the parts that feel odd to me (but I don't have a better alternative!) are the weights of the rules for priotitised sampling and the selection of types for unconstrained type variables (namely selecting environment types and functions of them, or something) |
| 10:00:33 | <boxscape> | mastarija and I found the reference to that in http://www.cs.bc.edu/~muller/teaching/lc/WadlerPropositionsAsTypes.pdf |
| 10:01:59 | <tomsmeding> | Cajun: if you're still using `cabal install --lib`, I think that is what's giving you issues. The normal usage of cabal (and what it's debugged for :p) is where you have a project with dependencies, and you work in a project |
| 10:02:16 | <tomsmeding> | You never globally install anything, except perhaps executables |
| 10:02:44 | <tomsmeding> | Kind of like a python virtualenv, or a Cargo.toml file for rust, or a package.json for nodejs |
| 10:03:50 | <tomsmeding> | If you want to be able to use a repl on an ad-hoc basis, try to use `cabal repl -b accelerate` or similar -- which essentially sets up a temporary project with the given dependenc(y)(ies) |
| 10:04:28 | <tomsmeding> | Cabal should be smart enough to not recompile libraries if you depend on them in a similar enough configuration |
| 10:06:41 | <tomsmeding> | Cajun: cabal's documentation says that `install --lib` modifies a file in `~/.ghc/$ARCH-$OS-$GHCVER/environments/default`; you might want to remove that file in case there is some odd configuration there now |
| 10:06:53 | <tomsmeding> | (docs: https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.4/cabal-commands.html#cabal-v2-install ) |
| 10:07:52 | <qrpnxz> | iterators: just works. https://termbin.com/yotb |
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| 10:10:06 | <qrpnxz> | > The _real_ reason for all this is that we still use ASCII strings to notate programs when we could be using interfaces actually based on ASTs |
| 10:10:06 | <qrpnxz> | boxscape: been kind of waiting for this to happen, haskell is probably a good candidate for such an interface given that composition is its whole shtick |
| 10:10:12 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 10:10:12 | <lambdabot> | Data constructor not in scope: |
| 10:10:12 | <lambdabot> | The |
| 10:10:52 | <boxscape> | qrpnxz yeah I also think expression-based languages might be a better fit than statement-based ones |
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| 12:41:01 | <Axman6> | qrpnxz: you should look at unison |
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| 12:41:26 | <qrpnxz> | what is it |
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| 12:44:27 | <koishi_> | is it possible to quantify over all type classes in an instance? |
| 12:44:53 | <koishi_> | e.g. instance forall cls. cls (C cls) |
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| 12:47:05 | <koishi_> | I presume it's impossible due to the first order logic used in haskell 'class language', but google doesn't tell me anything about second-order class instances |
| 12:48:04 | <koishi_> | so there doesn't exist any language that support this second-order thing, right? |
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| 13:43:36 | <sclv> | ah drat they left or i would have pointed em to constraint kinds |
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| 14:09:23 | <MemorableNewt> | I want to create an AST with multiple constructors, including some recursive, e.g. `data T = A | B T | C T T`, but I want to exclude certain patterns, e.g. in `C x y` I want to forbid `x == A` and `y == A`. Are there any general techniques for doing this concisely? |
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| 14:13:24 | <MemorableNewt> | If I only want to exclude the left argument of a `C` from being `A`, for example, then I could do it by attaching an extra kind parameter, e.g. `data T b where A :: T False; B :: T True -> T b; C :: T False -> T True -> T b`. But I don't see any way of generalising this. |
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| 14:15:23 | <MemorableNewt> | (correction: `A :: T False` should be `A :: T True` above) |
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| 14:43:35 | <infinisil> | MemorableNewt: I don't think it's generalizable without introducing an extra data type |
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| 14:45:17 | <safinaskar> | hi |
| 14:45:18 | <infinisil> | I'd do something like `data TKind = AKind | NonAKind`, then `data T (k :: TKind) where A :: T AKind; B :: T k -> T NonAKind; C :: T NonAKind -> T NonAKind -> T NonAKind` |
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| 14:49:10 | <MemorableNewt> | infinisil: That forbids `C A (B _)`, which I want to allow. |
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| 14:51:19 | <brence> | Is it possible to sort even elements in a list using combinators from `lens`? Something like `over (partsOf each . filtered even) sort [1,6,1,4,1,10,1,8,1,2] == [1,2,1,4,1,6,1,8,1,10]` |
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| 15:46:23 | <c_wraith> | brence: you left #haskell-lens awfully quickly after asking that last night |
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| 15:47:03 | <c_wraith> | brence: but yes, you're only off by a little bit - partsOf needs to take the whole traversal. |
| 15:47:35 | <c_wraith> | > over (partsOf (each . filtered even)) sort [1,10,1,8,1,6,1,4,1,2] |
| 15:47:37 | <lambdabot> | [1,2,1,4,1,6,1,8,1,10] |
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| 15:49:29 | <brence> | Apologies, it was very late at my place so I left and then got disconnected. |
| 15:49:45 | <c_wraith> | ah, no worries. anyway. yep, you were close |
| 15:51:16 | <brence> | c_wraith it makes sense now, thanks. I tried lots of stuff but can't believe how I missed this :) |
| 15:51:28 | <c_wraith> | I know the feeling :) |
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| 17:51:02 | <dminuoso> | Im beginning to wonder, are there other emacs users with haskell-mode that use terminal frames? |
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| 19:27:26 | <sm[m]> | dminuoso: why yes.. I use emacs in terminal mode, and have occasionally tried frames. I always found them unreliable in that setting - forgot the details, they would sometimes switch unexpectedly or something |
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| 19:31:46 | <Cajun> | tomsmeding: thanks! yeah that fixed it; now i know not to use `cabal install --lib` to avoid the issue |
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| 19:34:38 | <qrpnxz> | does ghc or some other tool have something that will create a function based on the type signature? ik that sounds kind of crazy, but it seems like it could be a thing and actually give you useful results |
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| 19:35:20 | <tomsmeding> | Cajun: Cool! Thanks, now I also now (albeit second-hand) that install --lib is fraught :p |
| 19:36:08 | <tomsmeding> | @djinn (((a -> t) -> t) -> t) -> a -> t |
| 19:36:09 | <lambdabot> | f a b = a (\ c -> c b) |
| 19:36:17 | <tomsmeding> | qrpnxz: this for example :p |
| 19:36:32 | <tomsmeding> | but it only works for fully parametric functions, sortof |
| 19:36:36 | <qrpnxz> | :o |
| 19:36:55 | <tomsmeding> | like, it isn't going to suggest Data.List.sort |
| 19:37:05 | <geekosaur> | there's also exference |
| 19:37:15 | <qrpnxz> | wow thanks |
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| 19:37:32 | <geekosaur> | which can handle things like recursive types, at the price of sometimes timing out |
| 19:40:14 | <boxscape> | qrpnxz Sandy Maguire just today gave a talk about that! What he's been working on looks really neat and is publicly available https://youtu.be/S0HvfXq3454 |
| 19:40:30 | <qrpnxz> | :o thanks! |
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| 19:50:44 | <dminuoso> | sm[m]: Do you also use haskell-mode? |
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| 19:57:19 | <dminuoso> | sm[m]: Two questions I have for you. What is your gc-cons-threshold set at? |
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| 20:01:38 | <boxscape_> | > let x = 4 in (+) 5x |
| 20:01:40 | <lambdabot> | 9 |
| 20:01:48 | <boxscape_> | I don't think I ever noticed you don't need a space between 5 and x there |
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| 20:02:28 | <monochrom> | Interesting! |
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| 20:03:53 | <monochrom> | > map id"abc" |
| 20:03:54 | <lambdabot> | "abc" |
| 20:03:56 | <sm[m]> | dminuoso: yes but not heavily.. it's active when I load a haskell file in emacs. (I also use VS code for haskell editing). My gc-cons-threshold is 800000 which I assume is default. |
| 20:04:02 | <monochrom> | I only thought of that one. |
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| 20:04:30 | <dminuoso> | sm[m]: Ah, then you wouldn't notice the problem I guess. |
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| 20:09:31 | <pavonia> | > let x = 4 in (+) 0x |
| 20:09:33 | <lambdabot> | 4 |
| 20:09:45 | <pavonia> | Okay, this is surprising |
| 20:10:02 | <geekosaur> | doesn't seem surprising to me |
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| 20:10:18 | <pavonia> | Why not? |
| 20:10:18 | <geekosaur> | x is not a macro, it lexes as an identifier |
| 20:10:43 | <pavonia> | What do you mean by macro? |
| 20:11:01 | <pavonia> | > let xF = 4 in (+) 0xF |
| 20:11:02 | <lambdabot> | <Integer -> Integer> |
| 20:11:06 | <geekosaur> | or are you thinking of hex syntax? I think that requires following digits |
| 20:11:19 | <pavonia> | Yeah |
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| 20:11:31 | <dminuoso> | I guess the lexer in GHC would disambiguate already. |
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| 20:21:46 | <boxscape_> | > let xdeadbeef = 4 in (+) 0xdeadbeef |
| 20:21:47 | <boxscape_> | > let xdeadbeer = 4 in (+) 0xdeadbeer |
| 20:21:47 | <lambdabot> | <Integer -> Integer> |
| 20:21:48 | <lambdabot> | 233495534 + r |
| 20:21:59 | <boxscape_> | pretty intuitive, I'd say |
| 20:22:38 | <tomsmeding> | spaces are already meaningful in haskell |
| 20:22:51 | <tomsmeding> | okay remove "already" |
| 20:24:04 | <boxscape_> | tomsmeding but usually renaming a variable doesn't change the type of a program ;) |
| 20:24:12 | <tomsmeding> | this not needing spaces between a number and an identifier is common knowledge on https://codegolf.stackexchange.com ; it applies to a number of languages :p |
| 20:24:21 | <boxscape_> | ah, interesting |
| 20:24:27 | <geekosaur> | yeh |
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| 21:48:23 | <qrpnxz> | oh, is ((,) w) the writer monad? Having trouble finding what it is, all ik is that the "reader" monad is ((->) r) |
| 21:49:06 | <geekosaur> | yes |
| 21:50:24 | <qrpnxz> | there is a lot of references to reader and writer monads, but idk where they originated. No where in the `base` docs are these mentioned for example |
| 21:51:44 | <geekosaur> | mtl and transformers |
| 21:52:00 | <qrpnxz> | 🤨️ |
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| 21:57:44 | <qrpnxz> | i guess these packages are used a lot? |
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| 21:59:27 | <geekosaur> | yes |
| 22:00:05 | <geekosaur> | there are some who prefer not to use mtl but they still use transformers, with different packages over it (generally effect systems) |
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| 22:01:32 | <qrpnxz> | oh monad transformers, i heard these are some big deal monad composer thing or something idk xD |
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| 22:30:17 | <remexre> | is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monad_(functional_programming)#Free_monads just wrong? |
| 22:30:39 | <remexre> | I'm having trouble interpreting the syntax (what language is that...), but the use of F in Bind definitely seems ill-kinded |
| 22:31:09 | <remexre> | and the definition of (>>=) is ill-typed per that definition |
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| 22:34:01 | <dminuoso> | remexre: The definition of >>= is indeed wrong, and the rest - I cant quite make it out. |
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| 22:35:09 | <remexre> | TBH I'm just gonna rewrite it to be in Haskell then |
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| 22:38:47 | <dibblego> | remexre: https://gist.github.com/tonymorris/3f534e5ef92990c8c3618411aae07dea |
| 22:39:14 | <dminuoso> | Gah. my ide-bios seems to constantly pick up on my ~/venv directory. :( |
| 22:39:21 | <dminuoso> | It wants to watch all files |
| 22:39:38 | <dminuoso> | I have a multi cradle set up with none for that and some other directories.. |
| 22:39:53 | <remexre> | dibblego: yeah, they don't do applicatives in the other examples, and use different names, so I'm doing it a bit differently, but yeah |
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| 22:47:35 | <dminuoso> | Ahh heh. This is lsp-mode, not haskell-language-server |
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All times are in UTC on 2021-06-20.