Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2021-06-26 (liberachat/#haskell)

00:00:04 × Morrow quits (~MorrowM_@147.161.9.9) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
00:00:29 <shachaf> But fmap (++"f") doesn't have the type [a] -> [a]
00:00:57 <qrpnxz> but it does
00:01:10 <qrpnxz> a = String, f = []
00:01:38 <shachaf> No, in Haskell "f :: [a] -> [a]" means "f :: forall a. [a] -> [a]".
00:01:47 <qrpnxz> dang it
00:02:00 <shachaf> That's what gives you the free theorem
00:02:03 <qrpnxz> isn't the only thing you can do that is [a] -> [a] id then?
00:02:13 <shachaf> No.
00:02:14 <hpc> or tail
00:02:27 <qrpnxz> hm
00:02:30 <hpc> there's lots of things you can do with the list, just not really its elements
00:02:37 <qrpnxz> ye ye
00:02:41 <MorrowM> @type reverse
00:02:42 <lambdabot> [a] -> [a]
00:03:04 <MorrowM> take, drop, etc
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00:03:36 <shachaf> You can do a lot of things, but they're all structural, not knowing anything about the elements.
00:03:36 <qrpnxz> so you can thing of it like an operation on the elements of the list commutes with an operation on the structure of the list?
00:03:40 <qrpnxz> *think
00:03:59 <qrpnxz> interesting
00:04:02 <shachaf> Sure, something like that.
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00:04:59 <shachaf> f is a natural transformation, if that means anything.
00:05:14 <qrpnxz> alright
00:05:30 <sm[m]> https://github.com/haskell/time/issues/172
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00:08:50 <sm[m]> ack, I thought time was still managed by the original author.
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00:51:03 <qrpnxz> shouldn't `f (a -> b)` = `f a -> f b` if `f` is a functor?
00:52:14 <shachaf> No.
00:52:37 <qrpnxz> tru
00:53:40 <qrpnxz> ok ok i think i get it now
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00:58:29 <mason0> sm[m], oh, there's actually getTimeZone :: UTCTime -> IO TimeZone in Data.Time.LocalTime, so tz package may not even be needed
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00:59:56 <mason0> I did a couple of tests, and it correctly adjusts daylight saving according to passed date for my timezone
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01:03:50 <fYnch> hey all, i'm trying to update an older project (roughly 7 years old) that uses type families and I'm getting a type error here https://paste.tomsmeding.com/qkCiOvgl
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01:04:58 <fYnch> the error is listed there but it claims an associated type references no type or kind variables of the class. I'm not sure how to parse that, digging through type families doc at the moment but lost
01:05:47 <shachaf> fYnch: Well, What's b supposed to be?
01:06:02 <shachaf> Did that code compile in the past?
01:06:56 <shachaf> Hmm, I guess I see what it's trying to do.
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01:07:46 <fYnch> it did, I'm the origonal author but I haven't looked at it in 7 years so i dont even remember why UnDBConnection was needed :|
01:09:32 <shachaf> Is it used anywhere else?
01:09:43 <shachaf> I haven't used any of these extensions in years.
01:09:55 <shachaf> Maybe you can make UnDBConnection a standalone type family or something? I don't know how you're using it.
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01:14:08 <fYnch> hey all, i'm trying to update an older project (roughly 7 years old) that uses type families and I'm getting a type error here https://paste.tomsmeding.com/qkCiOvglhttps://github.com/fuag15/yaskl/blob/master/src/Yaskl/PostgreSQL/Database.hs
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01:16:42 <shachaf> Well, that code doesn't seem to be using it.
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01:21:04 <fYnch> yeah, I don't get why i need this UnDBConnection (DBConnection a)
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01:21:12 <fYnch> going to try removing it and just us DBConnection a
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01:24:00 <fYnch> huh, without it it cant match my DBConnection type with the type i supply
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01:28:31 <fYnch> i wrote this origonally in 2014, I think i need to update it to use TypeFamilyDependencies
01:28:57 <geekosaur> I'm a bit surprised that ever worked given the dangling "b"
01:32:33 <fYnch> welp, time to pay the piper for me. This was when i was first learning haskell and I never really understood how it was interacting with the compiler, it looks like theres now a cleaner way to tell it
01:32:47 <fYnch> it looks like something like this and reworking the rest of the source to play with it will get the same result
01:34:49 <fYnch> nope, reading through the ghc docs i'm lost again. I think type famly dependencies is what i'm after but it looks like the syntax has changed a bit, rtfm'ing
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01:40:19 <shachaf> I don't know what the code is trying to accomplish.
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01:44:19 <fYnch> i'm still wrestling with it I think i spoke up too soon. I'm going to wrestle more till sunday evening and come back with a better understanding of how it was working. I believe this was origonally compiling against ghc 7.x
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02:25:10 <jophish> the Dependencies section on Hackage doesn't seem to include custom setup dependencies
02:25:18 <jophish> (or tests or benchmarks which I agree with)
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02:41:11 <fYnch> yeah, that was wierd, i don't know what i was smoking or eating or drinking when making that choice, but theres no reason for that wierd constraint on the class with TypeFamilyDependencies
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02:41:34 <fYnch> shachaf: ^
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02:42:01 <fYnch> shachaf: thanks for looking at it earlier, I may never know how it ended up being that way
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02:48:25 <sm[m]> mason0: ok, that's good to know. It would be strange if time did not do the right thing!
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03:14:25 <Boarders> Are there any papers that explain how the haskell runtime system works in some high level way?
03:15:31 <Boarders> the one I found is "Runtime support for multicore haskell" but interested in other resources
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03:22:29 <hololeap> Boarders: there's various resources for different aspects of it. is there anything in particular you're interested in?
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03:28:14 <Boarders> I'm kind of interested in how to write a RTS for a toy language myself so mostly just looking to pick up some wisdom
03:28:28 <Boarders> @hololeap
03:28:29 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
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03:30:18 <ezzieyguywuf> do y'all know of any tools like ghcid that exist for c++ development?
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03:51:29 <monochrom> I don't actually know, but my impression is that in C and C++, if people get seriously enough they use full-blown CI. (The whole point of inventing CI, I would think?)
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03:56:43 <hololeap> Boarders: idk, it's pretty complex. there's the garbage collector, thunks, parallelism, to name a few moving parts. take a look at `ghc +RTS --help` to get an idea what options are there for the runtime
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04:20:40 <janus> ezzieyguywuf: i have heard https://github.com/inotify-tools/inotify-tools recommended, you can use it to launch make
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04:23:17 <ezzieyguywuf> janus: thanks for the tip
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05:19:56 <sm[m]> ezzieyguywuf: entr (search for entrproject); visual studio / JetBrains ide probably
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06:05:14 <Cajun> so im trying to profile a program and i compile with `-prof` and use `-hc`, but when i convert it to postscript it is entirely empty. im running it through cabal with --enable-library-profiling because it fails to compile otherwise (the compiler says to put that flag). how can i get it to correctly show the heap?
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07:42:26 <Guest9> " something is intact=still same", how to represent this statement in diagram/sketch form?
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08:14:48 <tomsmeding> Is there a sensible precedence value for the '->' type construction operator?
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08:15:16 <tomsmeding> in the same list as where '+' has precedence value 6
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08:19:14 <ephemient> -∞?
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08:20:49 <tomsmeding> well, 'it + 1' should have a sensible value that is distinct from it
08:21:01 <tomsmeding> given that I would like to use it in a showsPrec-like setting :p
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08:22:09 <tomsmeding> like, it doesn't matter much because the same expression cannot currently contain arithmetic operators, but for consistency's sake I generally like to give stuff Haskell precedence levels if possible
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08:44:58 <juri_> Cajun: is your program terminating normally? I have found that when i control-C a program, sometimes the profile output has a partial frame at the end that i must cut off, for the tools to work.
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08:46:21 <Cajun> its terminating normally, the terminal doesnt specify an abnormal exit code afaik
08:46:40 <Cajun> i am on WSL if that matters for the profiling, but i dont image it does
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09:10:36 <Schrostfutz> Hi, I find myself relatively often trying to combine multiple predicates into one, and noticing that it's not so simple. Both joining the predicates into one function only works via lifting the && operator into function application (?), or applying a list of functions ([(a -> b)] -> a -> [b]) to a value and then combining the result, both of which are not readily available in the standard library which I find weird, since the
09:10:36 <Schrostfutz> use-case seems quite common to me, especially in a functional language. Or is that assumption wrong?
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09:18:04 <ChaiTRex> :t flip (all . flip id)
09:18:05 <lambdabot> Foldable t => t (b -> Bool) -> b -> Bool
09:18:43 <ChaiTRex> Schrostfutz: ^
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09:19:13 <Schrostfutz> What
09:19:17 <shachaf> Yikes, don't write that.
09:19:23 <Schrostfutz> *What's the reason for the `flip id`?
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09:19:49 <ChaiTRex> You could also write: \ fs x -> and . map (\ f -> f x) $ fs
09:20:17 <shachaf> That doesn't even seem to be addressng the question.
09:21:44 <Schrostfutz> The closest I have found so far is `fmap ($ val) predicates`, but that seems unintuitive to me (maybe because I'm a beginner, but I was hoping I was overlooking the nice, canonical solution to this.
09:22:39 <shachaf> map ($ x) list is reasonable standard.
09:23:16 <shachaf> Some people would probably suggest "sequence :: [a -> b] -> a -> [b]"
09:23:22 <shachaf> But that's probably not that helpful.
09:27:00 <Schrostfutz> shachaf: What sequence is that, the one I could find has the type `t (m a) -> m (t a)`
09:27:16 <shachaf> That one.
09:27:37 <shachaf> And that sort of confusion is why I wouldn't suggest it.
09:30:58 <Schrostfutz> shachaf: Alright, thanks! Do you have a pointer for a solution for the solution that feels more functional to me, combinding a list of predicates into a single one?: foldl1 (&&) predicates
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09:34:39 <ChaiTRex> Schrostfutz: Going with your solution, you can try: all ($ val) predicates
09:34:42 <ChaiTRex> @src all
09:34:42 <lambdabot> all p = and . map p
09:34:51 <ChaiTRex> @src and
09:34:51 <lambdabot> and = foldr (&&) True
09:35:53 <dibblego> sequence predicates
09:36:16 <dibblego> oh sorry, that discussion has already been had
09:37:14 <Schrostfutz> ChaiTRex: Thanks!
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09:38:01 <gensyst> I'm looking for a queue structure with min/max query support: https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/design-a-queue-data-structure-to-get-minimum-or-maximum-in-o1-time/
09:38:12 <gensyst> Are you aware of any existing one for Haskell?
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09:41:51 <juri_> I can potentially call error in any one of 200 places in my program. *sigh*
09:43:48 <juri_> I've got my stan warnings down to 180, from over 500, so i guess that's progress.
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11:25:17 <parzema> How would you decrypt encrypted data (in hex format) in Salsa20 cipher? If you have the key and nonce and the encrypted data?
11:25:24 <parzema> In Haskell
11:26:39 <hpc> same way i would in any other language - see if there's a package or command-line utility i can take advantage of
11:26:51 <hpc> and if neither of those work, implement the algorithm
11:27:29 <hpc> @hoogle Salsa20
11:27:29 <lambdabot> Crypto.Nettle.Ciphers data SALSA20
11:27:29 <lambdabot> Crypto.Nettle.Ciphers data ESTREAM_SALSA20
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11:27:36 <parzema> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Z-Botan-0.4.0.0/docs/Z-Crypto-Cipher.html
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11:29:10 <hpc> looks like you found it then
11:29:34 <parzema> hpc it doesnt show any examples
11:29:55 <sshine> typical
11:30:09 <parzema> encrypting or decrypting examples
11:31:01 <sshine> parzema, so there's decryptBlocks, and a hint that setBlockCipherKey must be called.
11:31:55 <hpc> so what you're really asking is how to use that particular package?
11:31:57 <hpc> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Z-Botan-0.4.0.0/docs/Z-Crypto-Cipher.html#v:runStreamCipher
11:32:11 <hpc> there's an example with the BIO function below that, maybe adapt that?
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11:33:22 <hpc> yeah, it looks like you're support to create an abstract cipher thing, set some stuff up with it, and then call runStreamCipher on your data
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11:36:49 <sshine> parzema, I suppose decryption depends on how it was encrypted (block or stream).
11:37:21 <sshine> parzema, are you both in charge of encrypting and decrypting? or are you looking to decrypt something that was already encrypted by others in a particular way?
11:37:29 <parzema> just decrypting
11:37:39 <parzema> the latter
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11:41:56 <sshine> parzema, so since Salsa20 is a StreamCipherType, I suppose the streamCipherBIO example is a good starting point.
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11:42:58 <sshine> parzema, it looks like you need to specify the input for setStreamCipherKey and setStreamCipherIV.
11:43:06 <oak-> If I would start implementing crypto stuff with Haskell, I would first have a look in the cryptonite-library, which seems to be quite state-of-the-art
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11:46:15 <jumper149> Hi, I was wondering if there is a way to tell, if the dependencies in my cabal file are not up-to-date with Hackage anymore.
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11:46:58 <oak-> It seems to support Salsa20 through https://hackage.haskell.org/package/cryptonite-0.29/docs/Crypto-Cipher-Salsa.html and the block cipher example could probably be easiliy modified to use Salsa20 instead of AES256 https://hackage.haskell.org/package/cryptonite-0.29/docs/Crypto-Tutorial.html#g:3
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11:53:47 <maerwald> jumper149: check out `cabal-bounds`
11:54:58 <parzema> oak- https://pastebin.com/8urm6mE6
11:55:02 <Profpatsch> jumper149: henlo
11:55:08 <parzema> Seems alot easier/shiorter to do it in python
11:55:34 <parzema> sshine
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11:56:20 <parzema> thought it might have been shorter in haskell
11:58:56 <jumper149> Profpatsch: hehe hello :)
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12:01:14 <sshine> parzema, ease and brevity depend on prior experience.
12:02:50 <oak-> Well it isn't much more complicated in Haskell, first you call the initialize-function in Crypto.Cipher.Salsa with 20 rounds, key and nonce, and you get the cipher context, and then you call the combine function with your data and the cipher context
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12:23:43 <Guest16> Sup
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12:30:13 <mib_l4fizy> Hi..I need help regarding this: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/cWHnB2OJ
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12:33:53 <chisui> Please include the place where you called `print` in your example
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12:39:11 <reedlepee> HI...could anyone help me with this: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/cWHnB2OJ
12:40:30 <chisui> reedlepee The error is not in the code you shared. Please share the code that calls `print`
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12:42:17 <reedlepee> I'm sorry. I did not know I had to add a print function. This was my entire code...I thought Haskell was similar to Gofer and just slightly modified the lines
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12:43:58 <chisui> In what environment is your code compiled?
12:44:24 <chisui> Are you compiling from the command line?
12:45:46 <reedlepee> @chisui no...I created a file, pasted these lines and loaded it in ghci
12:45:46 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
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12:46:18 <sshine> reedlepee, ah, collatz :) https://github.com/exercism/haskell/blob/main/exercises/practice/collatz-conjecture/examples/success-standard/src/CollatzConjecture.hs
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12:47:17 <reedlepee> Thanks! I realize I've a lot to learn and just can't modify code for other languages and expect it to work
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12:47:59 <chisui> ARGH, forgot to read the error message completely.
12:50:57 <reedlepee> chisui nvm...i found out what was wrong...I had to replace the "/" function with div..for rounding off as integers...now it's working :)
12:51:02 <sshine> reedlepee, instead of 'mod n 2 == 1', then 'odd n'
12:51:33 <sshine> reedlepee, you can also use `quot` instead of `div` since you don't care about negative rounding :)
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12:52:07 <reedlepee> sshine oh yeah you're right hehe..thanks!
12:53:03 <reedlepee> haskell is indeed very similar to gofer..now i think all FP might be similar to each other...thanks again guys..see ya!
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12:53:49 <sshine> reedlepee, the 'n : ...' part belongs to the recursion pattern, but the '3*n + 1' vs. 'n `quot` 2' belongs to generating the next number. try and make a helper function: 'next n = if even n then n `quot` 2 else 3*n+1' and use 'next' in 'pink' :)
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13:57:25 <dmj`> shouldn't reportError show a compilation failure message, not just "compilation failed"
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14:10:20 <TheCommieDuck> so thinking out loud; if I have something like data Foo = Foo A B C D (for some product types A-D) and data Bar = Bar A C E and then data FooStore = FooStore { _a :: IntMap A, _b :: IntMap B... _z :: IntMap Z}. I can manually make something that would function as FooStore -> IntMap {Foo or Bar}, but I was wondering if there was an automagic way or if this pattern had a name..could generic-lens
14:10:23 <TheCommieDuck> solve it?
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14:20:00 <Schrostfutz> Hi, I have a problem with the following code, which should check for a given number whether it is at least 3 digits long and any of a number of predicates is true: http://sprunge.us/IetAxp?haskell. The code works, until I add the (>= 100) qualification to the last predicate. (I do it this way only for error checking, previously I tried (>= 100) `and` (<predicates>)) Now it seems to run into an endless loop, why is that?
14:21:59 <dmj`> oh nvm, its reporting now
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14:26:24 <Schrostfutz> Ah, nvm, spotted it: my function definition yielded infinite recursion
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15:25:29 <romes87> hey everyone, does anyone have experience with LogicT (backtracking) ?
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16:57:56 <dminuoso> TheCommieDuck: If this was recurring, you could write generic code to do this for you.
16:58:05 <dminuoso> Or perhaps better yet TH code
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17:13:18 <TheCommieDuck> I've gotten FooStore done in TH
17:13:32 <TheCommieDuck> but it still feels like someone's probably done it properly before me
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17:17:05 <dminuoso> Mmm, this usage seems exotic to me.
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17:18:51 <dminuoso> TheCommieDuck: How did you implement it? Turn each IntMap into a list of pairs, and then scan all intmaps in parallel?
17:19:02 <dminuoso> (or rather, scan all lists)
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17:20:48 <TheCommieDuck> the TH generated has each intMap field as typenameStore, and when defining a new Foo I can make a lens with functors and intmap.union
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17:25:48 <motte_> hi, i'm having trouble writing a function that takes a string and a type and checks whether the string can be parsed to that type. this is what i've got so far: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/cBYkcZkH
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17:27:13 <int-e> there's no types at runtime, so you can't pattern match on types. you can use Data.Typeable to have an explicit runtime type representation, but usually there's a better way...
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17:27:34 <dminuoso> motte_: heh, I think what you are looking for already is readMaybe
17:27:38 <dminuoso> % :t readMaybe
17:27:39 <yahb> dminuoso: ; <interactive>:1:1: error: Variable not in scope: readMaybe
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17:27:49 <dminuoso> % import Text.Read (readMaybe)
17:27:50 <yahb> dminuoso:
17:27:51 <dminuoso> % :t readMaybe
17:27:51 <yahb> dminuoso: forall {a}. Read a => String -> Maybe a
17:28:43 <motte_> well, i have the possible types in a sum type (data Type in the example)
17:28:57 <dminuoso> motte_: We can think of both the type variable `a` and the dictionary `Read a` as being term-level arguments to the function. In GHC Haskell this is really the case, except GHC will automatically fill in those arguments using inference.
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17:29:22 <dminuoso> So:
17:29:27 <dminuoso> % :t isJust . readMaybe
17:29:27 <yahb> dminuoso: ; <interactive>:1:10: error:; * Ambiguous type variable `a0' arising from a use of `readMaybe'; prevents the constraint `(Read a0)' from being solved.; Probable fix: use a type annotation to specify what `a0' should be.; These potential instances exist:; instance forall a. Read a => Read (ZipList a) -- Defined in `Control.Applicative'; instance forall a. Read a => Re
17:29:28 <int-e> ah, sorry, I missed the Type type
17:29:35 <int-e> or rather, its significance
17:29:50 <dmj`> motte_: it can work if you use Proxy as a witness to the type at runtime
17:30:01 <dminuoso> % :t canParse :: Read a => (Proxy a) -> String -> Bool; canParse _ = isJust . readMaybe
17:30:01 <yahb> dminuoso: ; <interactive>:1:50: error: parse error on input `;'
17:30:04 <dminuoso> dmj`: Ah you beat me
17:30:15 <dminuoso> % canParse :: Read a => (Proxy a) -> String -> Bool; canParse _ = isJust . readMaybe
17:30:15 <yahb> dminuoso: ; <interactive>:104:74: error:; * Could not deduce (Read a0) arising from a use of `readMaybe'; from the context: Read a; bound by the type signature for:; canParse :: forall a. Read a => Proxy a -> String -> Bool; at <interactive>:104:1-49; The type variable `a0' is ambiguous; These potential instances exist:; instance forall a. Read a => Re
17:30:19 <int-e> motte_: but there's nothing connecting the data constructor named Int to the type named Int, you have to make the connection yourself
17:30:25 <dmj`> dminuoso: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
17:30:38 <dminuoso> % canParse :: forall a. Read a => (Proxy a) -> String -> Bool; canParse _ = isJust . readMaybe @a
17:30:39 <yahb> dminuoso:
17:30:41 <dminuoso> motte_: ^-
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17:35:13 <motte_> hmm, which extensions does this need?
17:35:27 <motte_> RankNTypes, TypeApplications, what else?
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17:36:46 <geekosaur> ScopedTypeVariables?
17:38:21 <motte_> ah, yes, got it
17:39:08 <dmj`> motte_: no rank n types needed
17:39:15 <dmj`> motte_: just STV and TA
17:39:22 <dminuoso> motte_: You can avoid the usage of TypeApplications with a type ascriptions instead. You just need ScopedTypevariables
17:40:35 <dminuoso> % canParse :: forall proxy a. Read a => proxy a -> String -> Bool; canParse _ = isJust . (readMaybe :: String -> Maybe a) -- motte_
17:40:35 <yahb> dminuoso:
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17:44:55 <motte_> so using this function would like: canParse (Proxy :: Proxy Int) "5"
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17:49:25 <motte_> what if the Int is a member of a sum type and also comes from a variable?
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17:53:16 <dsal> What is the use case for `canParse`? Normally you'd just parse and if you can't, you'd know because it didn't work. If you can, you'd have the value you get from parsing.
17:53:28 <dmj`> motte_: you'll probably need an instance of Read
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17:58:01 <euandreh> I see Real World Haskell has a chapter on parsec. Are there other books that cover it?
17:58:11 <euandreh> (other than online articles, blog posts, etc.)
18:00:35 <dsal> The biggest bit of the learning curve I found for *parsec is that it's not actually that complicated and barely does anything at all... but it seems like it should be complicated and do a lot, so I also got frustrated when I couldn't find great material that explained it all.
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18:00:55 <dsal> Then I just started reading and writing parsers.
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18:02:11 <dsal> euandreh: is there a particular thing that you're stuck on?
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18:08:15 <euandreh> dsal: not really, I'm just interested in parsers in general, and I wanted to better learn Haskell through that.
18:09:05 <euandreh> I've picked Parsec and AttoParsec, and dive into the implementation. I could just do that, but I really like learning via books :)
18:09:21 <dsal> euandreh: Oh, then one thing that might be *super* helpful is writing your own parser from scratch. You'll learn functors and applicatives and some monads and stuff while also having lots of magic melt away.
18:10:41 <euandreh> I did write my own parser combinator library, but not yet in Haskell. I wanted to dive into the implementations to improve the error messages of my own implementation
18:11:05 <dsal> Ah. megaparsec is basically that stuff you'd write anyway, but with good error messages. :)
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18:11:46 <dsal> "the implementation" is mostly just functors, applicatives, alternatives, and some simple monads (/monadfail).
18:12:00 <euandreh> Yes, MegaParsec also. I've looked at it too a bit, it seems nice
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18:19:09 <dmj`> euandreh: http://dev.stephendiehl.com/fun/002_parsers.html
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18:27:09 <euandreh> ty
18:27:19 <dmj`> yw
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18:34:55 <carmysilna> Slightly tangential, but I'm writing a parser/pretty-printer combinator library that lets you write a single syntactic description and get both a parser and a pretty-printer for free. The current impls are very bare and un-featureful so if anyone would want to help me improve them, they'd be more than welcome! https://github.com/brightly-salty/inversify
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18:42:01 <flipchan> if anyone is looking for work: https://haskell.careers
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18:55:46 <TheCommieDuck> is there a cut-and-dry whether to prefer generics or TH? thinking of e.g. lens, where if you're not using the typed generic lenses then it's basically identical
19:00:12 <dmj`> TheCommieDuck: Not really, Generics can have a higher runtime cost potentially, depending on how it was implemented (aeson generics instances were slower than aeson th instances). Template Haskell usually becomes problematic if you have a lot of it, or you're cross compiling. They're also not entirely equivalent, TH you can define new datatypes, w/ Generics you can only derive objects from pre-existing data types.
19:00:55 <TheCommieDuck> oh sure, I get that TH definitely has more scope; I was thinking solely in the cases that you're comparing very similar functionality
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19:02:25 <dmj`> I'd use Generics until performance is a problem, and if it never is, then great.
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19:17:41 <ChaiTRex> What's the latest GHC that cabal-install 3.4 supports?
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19:24:10 <kw> Is there a good way to use polymorphic lens classes (i.e. `class HasFoo s t a b | s -> a, t -> b where ...` ) without running into ambiguous type errors? Do I need more restrictive fundeps, like `HasFoo s t a b | s -> a, t -> b, a t -> s, b s -> t` ?
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19:31:39 <dminuoso> kw: Can you give some specific code that provokes an ambiguous type error with these classy lenses?
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19:36:08 <motte_> why doesn't this compile: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/qyMZQak4 ? nonsensical example but i really don't get it - it compiles when i move fn out of the where block
19:36:38 <dminuoso> motte_: The binding is tied to the single last definition
19:36:50 <dminuoso> Each declaration of `test` is separate
19:37:33 <dminuoso> If you want to share a binding over a group like that, you could do something like `test = go where fn = id; go x False = ...; go x True = ...;
19:37:40 <geekosaur> where scopes over guards, not equations
19:37:49 <motte_> oh
19:38:11 <motte_> pretty odd that i havent ran into this before
19:40:29 <EvanR> yeah where is not just a respelling of lett
19:40:34 <EvanR> let
19:41:34 <dminuoso> geekosaur: Mmm, "guards"?
19:41:57 <glguy> f | this = that | the = other where a = b
19:42:12 <dminuoso> Ahh. "Scopes over" meant something different than what I thought.
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19:48:24 <dmj`> I wish quasiquoters could take arguments, [| query schema | select 2 + 2; |]
19:48:42 <dminuoso> dmj`: let qq = query schema in [qq| ... |] ?
19:48:54 <qrpnxz> speaking of, what does `class TypeBoy a a' | a' -> a where` mean? what is that pipe doing there?
19:49:02 <dminuoso> qrpnxz: Its a functional dependency
19:49:08 <qrpnxz> wut
19:49:21 <dminuoso> https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/exts/functional_dependencies.html
19:49:54 <qrpnxz> ty sir
19:49:55 <dminuoso> Mmm, the manual is very lacking here
19:50:21 <dminuoso> Oh hah nevermind. Its all good
19:50:29 <dminuoso> My browser misrendered apparently]
19:50:53 <qrpnxz> lol
19:51:29 <qrpnxz> i didn't even know there was an honest to goodness manual for this language, i'm always having to like look at the base lib docks and hunt stuff in the wiki, or ask here
19:52:22 <dminuoso> This is a very readable official report of our language: https://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/haskell2010/
19:52:34 <qrpnxz> oh, this is only for extensions 😩️
19:52:46 <qrpnxz> didn't ghc already break compat with haskell 2010?
19:52:53 <dmj`> dminuoso: well I'll be, some assembly required to pass the stage restriction, but fits the bill
19:52:57 <dmj`> dminuoso: ty
19:52:57 <qrpnxz> eh better than nothing ig
19:53:38 <dminuoso> qrpnxz: Well, there's some minor edges where GHC is not fully Haskell2010 compliant, but they can be mostly glossed over.
19:53:39 <davean> qrpnxz: Not really in a meaningful way.
19:53:51 <qrpnxz> alright :)
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19:55:40 <qrpnxz> speaking of incompatibilities, do you think this will happen within the next decade? https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/proposal/monad-of-no-return
19:55:45 <qrpnxz> cause it'd be pretty cool
19:55:55 <davean> qrpnxz: It would be
19:56:59 <dminuoso> I think it would be mostly inconsequential.
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19:58:48 <dminuoso> Due to the recent discussion on the haskell mailing list, I think such proposals create a lot of friction unless -Wcompat was included by -Wall
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19:59:21 <dminuoso> Even if -Wall was included -Wall, Im not convinced most people actually have -Wall turned on.
19:59:32 <qrpnxz> i like that it would make it impossible for pure /= return and such
19:59:46 <maralorn> At some point I have largely stopped worrying about Haskell being to large (i.e. to many passing programs) and just cared about it becoming large enough for me. So that I can write the program I want to write.
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20:03:20 <dmj`> maralorn: haskell programs are too big to fail
20:03:25 <qrpnxz> lol
20:06:07 <spruit11> or too big to succeed
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20:08:03 <dminuoso> dmj`: Do you think we get government bailouts when GHC no longer compiles our programs?
20:08:49 <dminuoso> Considering the presence of Haskell in fintech, who knows...
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20:09:16 <chisui> Before that happens they would have to provide Java Apps with RAM.
20:09:31 <dmj`> dminuoso: If you're in a higher-kinded class then yes.
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20:15:15 <dmj`> dminuoso: I'm working on a project to type check SQL queries against a SQL schema generated using GHC.Generics
20:15:25 <dmj`> in a quasi quoter
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20:24:21 <qrpnxz> '
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20:28:17 <iridescent> anyone have a good explanation to algebraic effects?
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20:28:26 <iridescent> i don't really want to read the original paper
20:28:36 <iridescent> i tried and it was too dense :(
20:29:36 <davean> iridescent: what level do you want it at? That matters a lot
20:29:44 <iridescent> oh, i'm a complete beginner
20:29:58 <iridescent> people were talking about it at a PL discussion
20:30:01 <iridescent> and i got curious :)
20:30:30 <qrpnxz> foldable class has a lot of methods, but is not complete. There's like 50 versions of fold, yet no fold1, or fold', weird.
20:30:41 <davean> iridescent: ok, then "effects" = things happen, "algebraic" = you get laws about how they interact
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20:31:01 <iridescent> oh oops i meant like, do you have a good article that explains it :P
20:31:08 <davean> iridescent: "effects" libraries when you see them under that name often have an issue with knowing what happens when you use more than one
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20:42:43 <dsal> qrpnxz: what would `fold1` look like?
20:43:20 <qrpnxz> it would take a foldable of semigroups and give you a semigroup
20:43:31 <dsal> Oh. There's one in semigroupoids that does that.
20:44:12 <qrpnxz> yeah i was sure someone wrote it, i'm just saying idk the logic about what does get into Foldable and what doesn't, cause it already has like a bazillion combinations of properties lol
20:44:42 <dsal> Is it partial? The signature isn't super clear.
20:44:55 <qrpnxz> not sure what you are asking sorry
20:45:54 <dsal> > foldl1 (+) [] :: Int -- foldl1 is partial
20:45:55 <lambdabot> *Exception: Prelude.foldl1: empty list
20:46:08 <dsal> But the one in semigroups isn't defined for [], so that's probably fine.
20:46:29 <dsal> It has a special typeclass `Foldable1`
20:46:31 <qrpnxz> it would error on empty foldable since semigroup has no mempty
20:46:37 <qrpnxz> like foldl1 and foldr1
20:46:45 <dsal> Yes, those are partial functions. Partial functions are bad. :)
20:47:08 <qrpnxz> well how do you say "give me a nonempty foldable" :)
20:47:15 <qrpnxz> no way currenty
20:47:16 <dsal> @hoogle NonEmpty
20:47:16 <lambdabot> module Data.List.NonEmpty
20:47:16 <lambdabot> Data.List.NonEmpty data NonEmpty a
20:47:16 <lambdabot> GHC.Base data NonEmpty a
20:47:21 <qrpnxz> NonEmpty is for lists no?
20:47:41 <dsal> Oh, sure, but this is how they did it in semigroupoids: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/semigroupoids-5.3.5/docs/Data-Semigroup-Foldable.html#v:fold1
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20:48:46 <qrpnxz> so a law would be like toNonEmpty cannot be partial? but you can just say there's a law that says fold1 is also not partial
20:49:31 <dsal> Well, fold1 is only not partial if the thing you're feeding it can't be empty.
20:49:43 <dsal> So you just have to worry about the Foldable1 class lawfulness.
20:49:48 <qrpnxz> right the only guarantee of that is the programmer promisses
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20:52:05 <dsal> Sort of? I mean, you can make an empty non-empty if you considered `undefined :| []` a valid result, but you can throw `undefined` anywhere if you want to be chaotic.
20:52:35 <dsal> (and even then, it's technically not empty depending on what you're going to do with it)
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21:33:57 <qrpnxz> would (Monad m, Monad t, Traversable t) => Compose m t always be a monad?
21:35:06 <qrpnxz> given that join = fmap join . join . fmap sequenceA (which ik you can't make an instance with this, but would it follow the monad laws anyway is the question)
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21:59:45 <a6a45081-2b83> {f::[Int];f=do{return 2; return 3;}}
21:59:50 <a6a45081-2b83> f==[2,3] ??
22:01:34 <geekosaur> > let f :: [Int]; f = do { return 2; return 3; }
22:01:35 <lambdabot> <no location info>: error:
22:01:35 <lambdabot> not an expression: ‘let f :: [Int]; f = do { return 2; return 3; }’
22:01:41 <geekosaur> > let f :: [Int]; f = do { return 2; return 3; } in f
22:01:42 <lambdabot> [3]
22:01:50 <geekosaur> return is not a statement;
22:02:03 <geekosaur> @undo do { return 2; return 3 }
22:02:03 <lambdabot> return 2 >> return 3
22:02:12 <geekosaur> the 2 is discarded
22:02:13 <a6a45081-2b83> I was expecting it to inject the value in the monad
22:02:19 <a6a45081-2b83> more like >>=
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22:02:34 <a6a45081-2b83> yeah you are right
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22:04:06 <dsal> `return` is a confusing function and is best avoided.
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22:08:27 <hpc> it's best to just rename return to something even more confusing
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22:08:38 <hpc> foo = do {this; that; the other thing; exit();}
22:08:46 <a6a45081-2b83> rofl
22:09:12 <janus> > let exit() = pure
22:09:13 <lambdabot> <no location info>: error: not an expression: ‘let exit() = pure’
22:09:19 <hpc> @let exit = pure
22:09:20 <lambdabot> Defined.
22:09:25 <hpc> :t exit()
22:09:26 <lambdabot> Applicative f => f ()
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22:09:51 <hpc> :t exit(1)
22:09:52 <lambdabot> (Applicative f, Num a) => f a
22:09:54 <hpc> :D
22:10:16 <janus> maybe one could use aboriginal brackets like they do in go for generics and have it not be an unit..
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All times are in UTC on 2021-06-26.