Logs on 2021-06-27 (liberachat/#haskell)

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00:50:04	<qrpnxz>	importing category is really annoying because of (.) in the prelude, why isn't category in the prelude
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00:50:33	<qrpnxz>	well ig you can just use <<< nvm
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01:19:11	<qrpnxz>	dang, id also clashes
01:19:13	<qrpnxz>	terrible
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01:23:45	<yushyin>	qrpnxz: you can hide some imports from prelude e.g. import Prelude hiding (id, (.))
01:24:30	<qrpnxz>	idk how to do that in ghci. Regardless i think cat in prelude would be better no?
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01:26:28	<janus>	% set -XNoImplicitPrelude
01:26:28	<yahb>	janus: ; <interactive>:109:6: error:; * Data constructor not in scope: XNoImplicitPrelude :: ASetter s t a b -> b -> s -> t; * Perhaps you meant `ImplicitPrelude' (imported from Language.Haskell.TH)
01:26:59	<janus>	% :set -XNoImplicitPrelude
01:26:59	<yahb>	janus:
01:27:31	<janus>	qrpnxz: yahb is ghci, so if it works here...
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01:29:16	<qrpnxz>	unfortunately i also have the problem that i keep having to import the universe every time i want to play around, so if i do that I'll have to import even more stuff probably, but maybe it'll be around the same
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01:30:18	<qrpnxz>	and it still clashes with Data.Function, so i have to especially import that as well
01:31:57	<qrpnxz>	I can't even do the hiding syntax with :m + 😩️
01:32:07	<yushyin>	you can create a cabal project with a single source file, where you import/hide all you want and start a repl with that source file
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01:32:13	<qrpnxz>	was just about to say lol
01:32:17	<qrpnxz>	gonna have to do that
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01:32:52	<nshepperd>	i have a big pile of imports in ~/.ghci
01:32:55	<geekosaur>	you can also use import syntax in ghci
01:33:13	<geekosaur>	:m predates that
01:34:44	<qrpnxz>	is .ghci just a file that gets loaded every time
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01:34:53	<geekosaur>	yes
01:35:21	<geekosaur>	https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/ghci.html#the-ghci-and-haskeline-files
01:35:21	<qrpnxz>	cool i'll put it there then thx
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01:57:55	<qrpnxz>	#haskellmoment https://termbin.com/obf5
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02:06:27	<qrpnxz>	looks like ghci can even pull some data structures, but not data.vector
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02:27:05	<jophish>	<qrpnxz "#haskellmoment https://termbin.c"> hahahaha
02:27:19	<qrpnxz>	😁️
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02:39:34	<shachaf>	Matrix replies in IRC are the worst. I really wish they'd disable it or people stopped doing it.
02:41:09	<qrpnxz>	can you give an example
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02:42:06	<shachaf>	The above.
02:42:59	<qrpnxz>	ah, seemed fine to me but alright
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02:43:34	<geekosaur>	I've seen worse (how editing messages shows up, for example. May be element.io instead of matrix in general)
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02:57:37	<hrnz>	I recommend using https://paste.xinu.at/eiUvJX/ with weechat
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02:59:06	<jophish>	<shachaf "Matrix replies in IRC are the wo"> I guess there's no idiomatic way of replying to specific messages in plain IRC
02:59:12	<jophish>	(doing it once more so I can see what it's like)
02:59:26	<jophish>	oh, that's not too bad...
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03:01:33	<shachaf>	It looks like you're attributing what you're saying to me.
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03:02:58	<sm>	it could be refined a bit
03:03:16	<sm>	but at least they keep it to one line now
03:06:00	<jophish>	well, it's got a closing `>`
03:06:03	<sm>	maybe it looks different in shachaf's irc client
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03:08:59	<nshepperd>	it's IRC convention for quotes to be rendered as "<bob> what bob said" (because that's how many clients render chat logs)
03:09:16	<nshepperd>	using triangle brackets as a form of address is completely backward
03:09:47	<nshepperd>	given that
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03:33:41	<qrpnxz>	TIL that haskell doesn't optimized by default RIP
03:33:55	<qrpnxz>	i've been missing out man
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03:36:19	<qrpnxz>	ah fuck, it's a beast
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05:46:11	<eco>	Are there ways to make ghc use less memory when compiling? Even just compiling lens on a 2GB VPS results in a linux kernel hang.
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05:47:40	<c_wraith>	usually the major memory use is linking
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06:09:17	<dsal>	eco: You're going to have a hard time without RAM. For that type of scenario, I tend to use cachix on nixos.
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07:32:04	<qrpnxz>	I'm trying to do a parallel fold, but i'm getting some spooky unfusing where somehow where one computation finished before another even though they are both supposed to be happening in the same pass, and the result of both should happen at the same time. I suppose somehow the ghc could figure out that they are parallel, separate the computation, then actually like put them in separate coroutines and then s
07:32:05	<qrpnxz>	omehow one finished first. But that sounds way too fancy. I got no other explanation though 😄️
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07:33:21	<sm[m]>	eco: -j1 to build one thing at a time. --ghc-options='+RTS -M1G -RTS' to encourage ghc to use that much heap
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07:35:43	<a6a45081-2b83>	what is the technical name for operators such as (5+) or (*2)?
07:37:25	<c_wraith>	"sections" is probably what you're looking for
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07:40:31	<a6a45081-2b83>	c_wraith: thanks!
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07:47:11	<tomsmeding>	eco: no, add swap :p
07:47:13	<delYsid>	How does haskell treat pattern matches of constant types passed to a function. I.e., say I have data Foo = Foo \| Bar and a function f Foo = 1; f Bar = 2 Is calling "f Foo" somewhere equivalent to a function fFoo = 1, or does the matching happen at runtime?
07:47:34	<tomsmeding>	there are some things you can try but in my experience, 2GB is just not enough
07:47:46	<tomsmeding>	(for the heaviest packages like lens/aeson/vector)
07:48:09	<c_wraith>	delYsid: when compiled with optimizations, that should be inlined/simplified at compile time
07:48:23	<c_wraith>	delYsid: but to make sure, examine the core ghc generates
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09:37:34	<qrpnxz>	ok i managed to do the parallel fold really nicely with arrows cool!
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10:04:33	<zzz>	what does safe mean in 'instance [safe] Monad (State s)' ?
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10:15:19	<int-e>	Apparently it means that the instance was defined in a Safe module, which affects resolving overlapping instances in Safe mode: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/blob/master/compiler/GHC/Core/InstEnv.hs#L917-926
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10:34:04	<juri_>	so, i've come to the conclusion that stan is very good for forcing you to handle error conditions with error.
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10:39:53	<zzz>	int-e: thans
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10:41:24	<zzz>	so should i be using Control.Monad.State instead of State?
10:42:53	<zzz>	really confusing to have a safe tag for "code that is untrusted by the ghc user"
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11:09:21	<int-e>	zzz: Well, the safety is ensured by the compiler. It's a matter of perspective. (One of my favorite definitions from security is "a trusted system is a system that can break security")
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11:14:11	<qrpnxz>	what does it mean that there's a tilde before a tuple in parameter lists? e.g. swap ~(x, y) = (y, x)
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11:18:56	<Rembane>	qrpnxz: It's a lazy pattern match, with all it entails. :)
11:19:18	<qrpnxz>	hmm, ok. i guess that term is easier to google
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11:19:40	<Rembane>	qrpnxz: There's a Haskell wiki page about it: https://wiki.haskell.org/Lazy_pattern_match
11:20:46	<qrpnxz>	mm, nice
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15:28:15	<heath>	slack
15:28:19	<heath>	womp :)
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16:03:41	<sekun>	Anyone know if this is any good? https://academy.mondaymorninghaskell.com/p/practical-haskell
16:03:52	<sekun>	There are no reviews for that. Hard to really gauge if the $297 is worth it
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16:07:39	<[exa]>	sekun: I've heard mixed opinions on that here
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16:08:40	<[exa]>	imo you can get more practical haskell just by idling here :D
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16:09:29	<[exa]>	OTOH if you need to jump to industry and start spewing servant apps with elm frontends ASAP, $300 ain't that much, right?
16:10:57	<[exa]>	(kinda wondering about the added value above the standard tutorials of the libraries referenced there)
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16:11:39	<sekun>	hmmm yeah i think that's a good point
16:12:12	<sekun>	i do try to idle here hahah sometimes i forget to open hexchat
16:12:33	<[exa]>	sekun: anything specific you need to learn btw?
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16:13:45	<sekun>	it's pretty much elm + servant, or elm + scotty if none exist. just wanna try out making somewhat useful to experiment
16:14:35	<sekun>	i noticed materials about building (and finishing) a simple app (db, front-end, back-end) don't exist
16:15:02	<sekun>	at least, not easily accessible without shelling out money for books and whatnot
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16:17:20	<[exa]>	well, everyone kinda assumes that hs programmers have already tried that in other languages and don't need guidance on what should do what
16:17:33	<sekun>	ah that makes a lot of sense
16:17:42	<[exa]>	which is bad for tutorials right. :D
16:18:21	<[exa]>	so technically it boils down to design of the "glue parts", ie. API and SQL queries
16:18:26	<[exa]>	(and well, schema)
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16:19:04	<[exa]>	once you get these, just following scotty + selda + elm tutorial should be pretty easy
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16:22:46	<sekun>	i was wondering why they named it selda, if it had any reference to legend of zelda. turns out yeah
16:22:55	<sekun>	cool looks like a thin sql wrapper
16:23:10	<sekun>	i'll check it out
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16:23:28	<sekun>	i'll probably abstain from purchasing that for now and see if i can fumble my way to something functional
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16:24:38	<sekun>	i usually see you online every time i hop on here hahah
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16:45:53	<c_wraith>	oh yeah. I wanted to try out rel8. But... I don't actually have a database. Makes it awkward.
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16:47:18	<sm[m]>	@sekun:libera.chat: have you read the yesod book ?
16:47:18	<lambdabot>	Unknown command, try @list
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16:49:32	<sm[m]>	also IHP probably has a nice tutorial; also there have been random posts describing full real world web apps which are a bit hard to find of course
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16:59:38	<dminuoso>	c_wraith: Nobody is going to convince me that their "fancy pants SQL abstraction is better than SQL"
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17:01:00	<c_wraith>	I don't "better than SQL". I want convenient for common cases and easy enough to switch to SQL outside of them.
17:01:41	<dminuoso>	The overhead of learning "a completely custom and strange abstraction" usually beats using SQL that you already know.
17:01:55	<c_wraith>	the big thing I want library support for, especially in Haskell, is marshalling query parameters and unmarshalling results.
17:02:00	<dminuoso>	I find that with these database layers you end up studying these DSLs to know how to make them spit out the SQL query you already have in your mind
17:02:16	<dminuoso>	Well, all the -simple libraries give you that.
17:02:25	<c_wraith>	very painfully
17:02:43	<c_wraith>	I want something join-aware
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17:02:59	<dminuoso>	The main selling point of rel8 and friends is that it propagates the schema types throughout the type system, right through queries.
17:03:08	<Rembane>	dminuoso: Does it work?
17:03:24	<dminuoso>	Im sure it does, there's a few haskell libraries that do
17:03:40	<dminuoso>	But the price is that you have to use an exotic eDSL
17:03:51	<dminuoso>	Maybe this is the place where TH would be ideal
17:04:06	<Rembane>	That's potentially painful. I'll have to take a look at rel8 some day.
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17:05:00	<boxscape>	could one make/does there exist a library where you write a native SQL query in a quasiquote and it typechecks that?
17:05:08	<boxscape>	or is there something I'm not thinking of preventing that from existing?
17:05:11	<c_wraith>	thats the thing about rel8. it's not an exotic DSL. it's a normal Haskell DSL
17:05:25	<dminuoso>	boxscape: That's sort of what I was proposing. You'd need at least TH power for that.
17:05:25	<boxscape>	(I haven't really used quasiquotes)
17:05:30	<boxscape>	ah, okay
17:05:55	<c_wraith>	quasiquotes are essentially String -> Q Exp
17:05:58	<dminuoso>	boxscape: QQ gives you simple `String -> AST` functions.
17:06:03	<dminuoso>	That GHC knows to splice
17:06:06	<dminuoso>	They cant do anything else
17:06:18	<boxscape>	right, okay
17:06:19	<c_wraith>	or Q [Decl], in that context.
17:06:47	<c_wraith>	well, they can run arbitrary IO code at compile time.
17:06:52	<dminuoso>	QQ can?
17:07:01	<c_wraith>	the Q monad can
17:07:50	<dminuoso>	Though, I guess, perhaps parametrized QQs could be used..
17:07:55	<c_wraith>	so they can validate your query against the database, if they're set up that way.
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17:08:21	<dminuoso>	Maybe this is actually something worth exploring
17:08:22	<c_wraith>	that has a lot of problems that basically match the benefits, unfortunately
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17:09:28	<c_wraith>	(do you want compiling to need a running database? how do you handle migrations? etc)
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17:28:24	<dminuoso>	c_wraith: It might not need a running database.
17:28:35	<dminuoso>	Generally it would be enough to just have schema specifications
17:28:45	<dminuoso>	And some startup glue code that ensures the codified schema and the database match
17:32:34	<Gurkenglas>	Is there a variant of Monad m where (>>=) is m s t a -> (a -> m t o b) -> m s o b? Does it have its own do notation?
17:34:05	<shachaf>	Yes, this is called "indexed monad".
17:34:40	<shachaf>	GHC lets you overload do notation already, so I think it works with indexed monads if you define it.
17:34:55	<zzz>	what's the elegant way of doing something like multiple inserts on a Map?
17:36:32	<Gurkenglas>	oh yes right i saw this once! neat. (i was reading a book on category theory and it said an adjunction induces a monad and i went "huh, State s is induced that way and (s,) adjoint (s->) but can i find a way to call that adjunction natural in s and can i transport this to the state monad?")
17:37:23	<Gurkenglas>	and yeah https://kseo.github.io/posts/2017-01-12-indexed-monads.html gives it do notation
17:38:43	<zzz>	jkj
17:39:36	<Gurkenglas>	zzz, more context. what is the meaning of the map entries
17:41:39	<zzz>	i just want to avoid doing: m' = Map.insert ... m ; m'' = Map.insert ... m' ; etc...
17:42:53	<shachaf>	You can have a list of insertions.
17:43:32	<neo>	foldl' on a list should be what you are looking for.
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17:50:34	<infinisil>	zzz: fromList + union
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17:51:00	<Gurkenglas>	zzz, if you have precisely two uses of Map.insert in your code and they're consecutive, you can do Map.insert k v . Map.insert k' v'
17:52:12	<Gurkenglas>	if you touch this map all the time and you're actually doing imperative programming, consider the state monad
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17:53:14	<Gurkenglas>	if additionally you have multiple things you're touching all the time and nested data structures, consider additionally using lens
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17:55:21	<zzz>	thank you all
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17:58:34	<dminuoso>	Profpatsch: By the way, in hindsight the talk was probably a waste of time. When someone like Rich Hickey holds a talk on Clojure/Conj arguing why Clojure is great and everybody else is wrong, he doesn't even need convincing arguments, his audience already is convinced regardless of what you say.
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18:15:00	<qrpnxz>	`app = arr $ uncurry id` LOL
18:15:26	<dminuoso>	% :t arr (uncurry id)
18:15:26	<yahb>	dminuoso: forall {a :: * -> * -> *} {b} {c}. Arrow a => a (b -> c, b) c
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18:28:48	<maerwald>	dminuoso: clojure is a
18:28:57	<maerwald>	troll language
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18:29:52	<maerwald>	"Oh, you passed a different type, lemme do something entirely different, like make your fronted page blank"
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18:31:53	<dminuoso>	I dont really want to bash languages.
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18:32:05	<maerwald>	I'm not a friend of type classes, because they can already introduce similar confusion, but generally, a typeclass has a common theme
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18:32:30	<maerwald>	Once your function can process arbitrary types, everything goes
18:33:28	<maerwald>	It's inherent in the language: you can't fix clojure
18:35:28	<maerwald>	I'm not bashing, I'm providing arguments ;)
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18:38:17	<dminuoso>	fatal: reference is not a tree: 783db292d12d28786612b8eeec7bb920246b72ce
18:38:28	<dminuoso>	Mmm, cabal has some really rough ux edges at times..
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18:38:49	<dminuoso>	Of course I know exactly what the problem is, what I did and what I need to do to fix it..
18:39:01	<dminuoso>	But if that's the entirety of the error message... sigh
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18:39:22	<Clint>	i almost never use a tree as a reference
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18:42:40	<hpc>	what's a tree in the context of cabal?
18:42:55	<davean>	hpc: he's clearly refering to a git repo in a cabal.project
18:43:33	<davean>	I'm not clear on what error message you'd prefer dminuoso
18:44:06	<hpc>	ah, i am not used to those commit hashes being called trees
18:44:37	<dminuoso>	Error while fetching vendored package `foo` via git: fatal: reference is not a tree: 783db292d12d28786612b8eeec7bb920246b72ce
18:44:38	<davean>	Its NOT a commit hash
18:44:42	<dminuoso>	davean: Something like that?
18:44:44	<davean>	hpc: thats a difference
18:44:50	<dminuoso>	The point is, there's absolutely no context what went wrong where.
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18:45:02	<dminuoso>	Some random git error means nothing to a cabal user
18:45:04	<davean>	hpc: git has commits, trees, and treeishs
18:45:08	<davean>	(also files, etc)
18:45:12	<safinaskar>	why this doesn't compile? https://godbolt.org/z/hqK4jWz5E
18:46:06	<dminuoso>	safinaskar: This is due to a restriction in the haskell report
18:46:44	<davean>	hpc: you usually put a commit, sure, but what it needs is the tree
18:47:00	<dminuoso>	It's not mentioned very explicitly, but the Haskell report says that lambda (and thus also <- bound) variables must be monomorphic.
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18:47:22	<dminuoso>	It doesn't exactly state why, Im guessing there's type inference reasons?
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18:50:21	<dminuoso>	Does this require ImpredicativeTypes?
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18:50:52	<dminuoso>	[[forall a. a]] does seem like an impredicative type
18:51:30	<boxscape>	this works https://paste.tomsmeding.com/HH5iNOKf
18:51:53	<boxscape>	(ignore the -XPartialTypeSignatures)
18:52:45	<boxscape>	interestingly giving the type to the argument instead of to the entire lambda expression does not
18:53:02	<safinaskar>	my code fails even if i enable ImpredicativeTypes (tested with 9.2.0.20210422 [latest available in ghcup])
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18:54:01	<boxscape>	your code wouldn't work even if ImpredicativeTypes could fix this because of https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/20020
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19:02:06	<safinaskar>	so? what to do? i want to have polymorphic binding in do. i. e. something like this: do { f :: (forall a. a -> Int) <- .....; ..... f 2 .....; ..... f "o" ..... }
19:02:12	<safinaskar>	is this possible?
19:02:59	<qrpnxz>	safinaskar, i think you can do it with let but not with <-
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19:06:30	<boxscape>	(Oh, right, my example worked because I forgot the parentheses around (forall a . [[a]])...)
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19:12:08	<safinaskar>	ok, thanks
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19:13:28	<boxscape>	safinaskar: something like this works https://paste.tomsmeding.com/DpnTBwVd
19:13:58	<dminuoso>	boxscape: you should even be able to pattern match on the do-bind, no?
19:14:18	<dminuoso>	Or does this run into the same bug you reported?
19:14:27	<dminuoso>	I know we talked about this a few days ago, but I cant recall the details
19:14:35	<boxscape>	dminuoso: no, you're right
19:14:46	<boxscape>	it works
19:15:05	<dminuoso>	Then you dont even need impredicative types anymore
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19:16:30	<qrpnxz>	what is an impredicative type
19:17:02	<boxscape>	qrpnxz: if you have a type constructor like Maybe and you have a type with forall as an argument to it, e.g. `Maybe (forall a . a -> a)`
19:17:02	<Profpatsch>	dminuoso: true
19:17:03	<dminuoso>	qrpnxz: Take [forall a. a] for instance
19:17:15	<Profpatsch>	dminuoso: though I think not all points are invalid
19:17:27	<dminuoso>	qrpnxz: In impredicative types, this type is allowed and it is quantified over all types, including itself.
19:17:33	<Profpatsch>	I mean Hickey is probably on a local maximum
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19:17:39	<Profpatsch>	one that is pretty good
19:17:40	<qrpnxz>	ah
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19:17:56	<safinaskar>	boxscape: thanks. i tried to make Id type with kind (* -> * ): https://godbolt.org/z/YhcjvP41x . and now code doesn't compile
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19:18:16	<safinaskar>	boxscape: so, this means i need to create special newtype for this particular binding?!
19:18:25	<safinaskar>	boxscape: this is very ugly
19:18:45	<dminuoso>	Profpatsch: Im not saying his points are invalid, just that the way he losely reasons mostly to accomodate an audience that claps and cheers at everything he says. :)
19:18:56	<dminuoso>	is not a way that I care for
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19:20:06	<dminuoso>	Rich convincing Clojure fans at Clojure Conj that the clojure way is the true way.. well. He summarized a series of SPJ talks in one and a half sentences, and just dismissed it as "he's totally wrong, we all know dynamic is better than static. QED."
19:20:21	<boxscape>	safinaskar: hm I'm playing around with it but haven't found a better way yet that works
19:20:22	<dminuoso>	(I paraphrased a bit)
19:21:03	<Profpatsch>	yeah
19:21:23	<boxscape>	safinaskar: never mind I have found a way, hold on
19:23:08	<boxscape>	safinaskar: this _should_ work, but doesn't: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/tOKilQ57 That's because of the GHC issue I posted above. However, translating it into non-do notation _does_ work: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/BZFWmxK9
19:23:36	<boxscape>	safinaskar: the important thing being the type application @(forall a . a -> a), to let Id know that its argument is supposed to be polymorphic
19:24:12	<dminuoso>	Profpatsch: The original topic is an interesting subject, I pondered quite a bit about it. At the end there's different audiences. In my experience, with the systems I work with, being absolutely strict with input is worth more than any hypothetical "forward compatibility"
19:24:21	<dminuoso>	Especially when both the client and server are under your control
19:24:46	<boxscape>	safinaskar: here's a shorter version that still works: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/OxAE9zhh
19:24:47	<dminuoso>	Then be as strict as you can, since an unparsed field is likely an error on the sending side.
19:27:01	<Profpatsch>	dminuoso: I think he conflates “not caring about whether something is there” with “providing defaults when something is not there”
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19:27:45	<dminuoso>	Judging from the contents its rather "why do I care what other things you send me. I just care about the values i look at"
19:27:47	<dminuoso>	*context
19:28:01	<dminuoso>	The true pinnacle of dynamic programming where all you fling around is lists and maps
19:28:30	<Rembane>	And poo!
19:28:51	<dminuoso>	To some extend I can understand his love of maps, since they are so nicely compositional. You can just plug values out, merge them together in new fancy ways
19:29:10	<dminuoso>	The desire for this even in static type sytems can be found in row types research
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19:30:47	<boxscape>	that's the "structural vs nominal" divide rather than the "static vs dynamic" divide, isn't it?
19:30:53	<dminuoso>	Right
19:30:57	<dminuoso>	well yes and no
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19:31:03	<boxscape>	(not that you can't have both structural and nominal typing together)
19:31:15	<dminuoso>	dynamic type systems are inherently nominal
19:31:48	<Rembane>	Are there no structural dynamic typing systems?
19:31:55	<Rembane>	*type
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19:32:36	<safinaskar>	boxscape: ok, thanks
19:33:56	<boxscape>	I suppose checking whether the entire structure matches dynamically probably isn't worth the runtime cost compared to just checking whether the relevant structure matches, which gets you to duck typing
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19:34:52	<Rembane>	Both sounds structurally typed to me, it's checked at runtime rather than compile time though.
19:35:53	boxscape	shrugs
19:36:01	<boxscape>	wikpedia distinguishes between structural and duck
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19:36:24	<boxscape>	though I'm not sure why dynamic typing would be inherently nominal as dminuoso when duck typing exists...
19:36:29	<boxscape>	s//said
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19:48:21	<boxscape>	Does it go back to the "dynamic type systems aren't actually type systems" thing?
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19:54:19	<safinaskar>	arguing about type systems? here another argument: in typescript (as well as i know) you can get empty list from function returning list of ints and pass it to function accepting list of strings
19:55:23	<safinaskar>	i. e. you can do something like this haskell code: module X where { f :: [Int]; f = []; g :: [String] -> (); g _ = (); main = return $ g f; }
19:55:28	<safinaskar>	in haskell this is impossible
19:56:21	<monochrom>	I can do this in Haskell if you allow me to s/Int/int/ >:)
19:56:37	<mjrosenb>	lol.
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19:58:52	<dminuoso>	boxscape: The context is that Rich proposes using maps for many things. This comes from reasoning that "often you need some subset of values of some type", another time you need another subset of values..
19:59:06	<dminuoso>	Then you might want to compose some subset of this type and then some subset of that type
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20:00:42	<dminuoso>	boxscape: and sorry, I made an incorrect statement here in: "dynamic type systems are inherently nominal"
20:00:43	<boxscape>	I see
20:00:51	<dminuoso>	My kid was crying in the background, and I got distracted.
20:00:53	<boxscape>	okay
20:00:58	<boxscape>	haha no worries
20:01:31	<boxscape>	(I hope they're okay)
20:02:06	<dminuoso>	Sure, its just teething
20:02:46	<boxscape>	okay, good
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20:10:17	<boxscape>	@tell safinaskar: Re: polymorphic bindings in do notation, you don't actually need the Id newtype we had, this works: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/4m8w6cuk
20:10:17	<lambdabot>	Consider it noted.
20:10:59	<boxscape>	wait, did I tell lambdabot to tell this to "safinaskar:" with a colon?
20:11:11	<dminuoso>	boxscape: mmm, I wonder, couldnt you just mix do-notation with lambda style?
20:11:21	<dminuoso>	might look odd, but it shouldnt be a problem
20:11:57	<boxscape>	I suppose so, yeah
20:11:58	<boxscape>	you mean to get around the bug?
20:13:11	<dminuoso>	https://gist.github.com/dminuoso/ab50177469e73aee70b7dbf1e52603d9
20:13:11	<boxscape>	@tell safinaskar Re: polymorphic bindings in do notation, you don't actually need the Id newtype we had, this works: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/4m8w6cuk
20:13:11	<lambdabot>	Consider it noted.
20:13:12	<dminuoso>	Yeah
20:13:16	<dminuoso>	boxscape: ^- this works
20:13:40	<dminuoso>	Oh my, this I have to keep in my bag of tricks.
20:13:42	<boxscape>	yeah, that's not too bad
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20:13:48	<boxscape>	actually surprised that's not an indentation error
20:13:56	<dminuoso>	why should it?
20:14:01	<dminuoso>	do-expressions are just expressions.
20:14:23	<dminuoso>	and regarding indention, I have no clue how indention rules even work in haskell
20:14:38	<boxscape>	I would have expected ghc to read s <- getLine as part of the previous do-notation but I guess not
20:14:43	<boxscape>	(well, it is part of it)
20:14:44	<dminuoso>	I only write haskell for a living, dont ask me what GHC even considers as valid input
20:14:50	<boxscape>	hehe
20:15:06	<geekosaur>	looks like NondecreasingIndentation at work to me
20:15:12	<boxscape>	ah
20:16:33	<dminuoso>	if null args then return [] else do
20:16:51	<dminuoso>	Interesting! Early-return, I had not seen this trick before.
20:17:05	<dminuoso>	I've had two or three cases where I wanted this
20:17:30	<dminuoso>	geekosaur: Thanks!
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21:50:15	<elvishjerricco>	When a haskell process is killed by SIGTERM, what is its exit status? (Assuming the haskell code makes no effort to handle exceptions/signals/etc.)
21:51:20	<geekosaur>	signals are reported separately from exit statuses
21:51:29	<geekosaur>	so it'll show signal 15
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21:53:48	<elvishjerricco>	geekosaur: Right, but I'm interested in the exit status. I was playing with some systemd stuff and decided to use a dummy haskell program (loop on threadDelay) to test some stuff. When I asked systemd to stop the service, it got reported as failed due to exit status
21:54:00	<elvishjerricco>	I was just wondering if that's because SIGTERM caused the program to exit non-zero
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21:54:15	<elvishjerricco>	or if some other part of my system jankery is messed up
21:54:20	<elvishjerricco>	systemd*
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22:05:56	<geekosaur>	as expected I get "terminated" from my shell for kill -15 on a Haskell program
22:06:13	<geekosaur>	possibly systemd expects a program to clean up and exit 0 on SIGTERM
22:07:08	<elvishjerricco>	Yea, I just tested and the exit code is 1
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22:27:39	<dminuoso>	How do I get the current day in the current locale? I want the equivalent of `date` in Haskell
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22:32:25	<Clint>	dminuoso: localDay . zonedTimeToLocalTime <$> getZonedTime ?
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22:33:03	<dminuoso>	Clint: Ah. I kept looking for some `getLocalTime :: IO LocalTime`
22:33:05	<dminuoso>	Thanks
22:33:25	<sm[m]>	it would be nice to add such shortcuts to the lib
22:34:27	sm[m]	calls it getCurrentDay :: IO Day
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