Logs on 2021-07-20 (liberachat/#haskell)
| 00:03:38 | <geekosaur> | oh brother |
| 00:03:49 | <amesgen[m]> | yin: you might be interested in `anythingToString`: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/recover-rtti-0.4.0.0/docs/Debug-RecoverRTTI.html |
| 00:04:03 | <davean> | geekosaur: ok, ok I won't break out my dirty tricks |
| 00:04:23 | <geekosaur> | I'm not surprised there's some kind of hack but I'm not sure handing out hacks is the best idea here |
| 00:04:38 | <davean> | Oh, its an actively bad idea |
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| 00:12:48 | <zzz> | bow im curious |
| 00:12:56 | <zzz> | s/bow/now |
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| 00:13:07 | <yin[m]> | inpromise I'll ignore it |
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| 00:13:26 | <geekosaur> | there are some evil ways to manufacture dictionaries on the fly |
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| 01:10:29 | <oso> | what's this arcane error i'm getting while trying to build and how can i fix it? i've tried a few things like explicitly denoting types but can't get around it https://paste.tomsmeding.com/SIas3Dgn |
| 01:11:13 | <dsal> | You could use type applications. |
| 01:11:15 | <dsal> | Or ignore it. |
| 01:12:03 | <geekosaur> | and stop using -Werrorl or at least turn it off for defaulting |
| 01:12:28 | <geekosaur> | where it's kinda obnoxious because defaulting basically exists for this use case |
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| 01:12:51 | <dsal> | Most of the time where I've had defaulting warnings, I've not cared. |
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| 01:13:41 | <oso> | looking into defaulting, thanks |
| 01:14:18 | <geekosaur> | the problem is that there are cases where you pretty much can't specify the type |
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| 01:15:50 | <geekosaur> | although here you could, you just have to annotate almost everything with a type |
| 01:16:10 | <oso> | i only had to annotate the 100 as a double, actually, that got rid of the warning |
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| 01:18:08 | <oso> | thanks for pointing me in the right direction |
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| 01:59:15 | <h98> | I love how GHC gets confused by numbers in instance resolution....is "1" a Word32 or a Ptr a -> Ptr b -> IO Word32? Who knows what he meant! |
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| 03:51:19 | <Boarders> | does GHC have standalone kind signatures now? |
| 03:52:14 | <Boarders> | I can't seem to find it in the user guide so I must be looking in the wrong places |
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| 04:05:38 | <justsomeguy> | In the book I'm reading, it says "Functional programming languages are all based on lambda calculus." Isn't this wrong? -- Lisp (non-scheme, older versions only), I think, was based on McCarthy's recursive function notation. I've also encountered some quotes about ALGOL 68 being described partly in lambda calculus, which leads me to ask -- what does it mean for a language to be based on lambda |
| 04:05:40 | <justsomeguy> | calculus in the first place? |
| 04:06:54 | <Boarders> | lisp was definitely based on the lambda calculus even if mccarthy made improvements to it as a programming language |
| 04:07:50 | <justsomeguy> | There's a quote in this article by McCarthy saying otherwise ... https://danielsz.github.io/blog/2019-08-05T21_14.html |
| 04:08:30 | <justsomeguy> | Or, err, a quote by McCarthy in this article by Danielsz. |
| 04:08:47 | <justsomeguy> | (Words are hard, sometimes.) |
| 04:09:16 | <Boarders> | everyone else involved in lisp seemed to think it was "based on" the lambda calculus so I wouldn't take what McCarthy's quote means too seriously |
| 04:09:33 | <Boarders> | especially for instance the writers of scheme |
| 04:10:05 | <Boarders> | who wrote a whole series of papers explaining how to encode various programming language construct in lambda calculus |
| 04:10:27 | <justsomeguy> | Hmm... ok. |
| 04:11:17 | <Boarders> | this is a relevant paper: https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/6091 |
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| 04:12:05 | <justsomeguy> | I'm still not sure the calculus matters. If a PL was developed that is based on SKI combinator calculus, and had functional features (referential transparency, first-class functions) would you consider that a functional language? |
| 04:12:18 | justsomeguy | is checking out the paper now |
| 04:13:36 | <justsomeguy> | But I think I'm probably taking that quote from the book too literally. |
| 04:14:06 | <lechner> | which book? |
| 04:14:21 | <justsomeguy> | Haskell programming from first princpiles (haskellbook.com) |
| 04:15:21 | <justsomeguy> | I'm, uhh, currently over-analysing the first chapter as part of a strange procrastination ritual. |
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| 04:16:49 | <lechner> | sometimes it's worthwhile to get your bearings right |
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| 04:17:42 | <justsomeguy> | Well, at least I'm still learning new things from it. |
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| 04:31:36 | <dsal> | It's a great book. Depends on what you need to get out of it, though. I didn't care much about that particular bit of theory. |
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| 04:45:07 | <justsomeguy> | I've been developing a love hate relationship with it. I like the order that it teaches things in, and also how it leaves a lot of breadcrumbs to explore further. On the other hand, I often wish it to be more explcit about what the learning objectives for each chapter are, and have better code examples of where a newly introduced abstraction will be useful. It's also just too long, and not |
| 04:45:09 | <justsomeguy> | structured well enough to keep track of things (section names aren't descriptive enough, no figure numbers). |
| 04:45:36 | <justsomeguy> | But part of that is also just me learning how to read a big book. |
| 04:46:48 | justsomeguy | hasn't attempted to read a large non-fiction book where he can't "keep it all in his head" at once before this. |
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| 05:09:27 | <dsal> | Well, the lambda calculus thing is the first chapter, so like, I'm not sure how you got such a judgment. :) |
| 05:09:39 | <dsal> | But it mostly just walks you through building a lot of the fundamentals. |
| 05:10:47 | <dsal> | I had working haskell code I was working on when I read it, though. A lot of what it did was help me understand my code and the ideas behind it better. And dissolved some of the magic. |
| 05:11:30 | <justsomeguy> | As for how I came up with that opionion; I've read up to chapter 22, but am revisiting ch 1. |
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| 05:15:08 | <justsomeguy> | Overall, I like the book a lot. Maybe I shouldn't have said so much; I got a bit frustrated with it. |
| 05:16:20 | <sm> | justsomeguy: sounds quite reasonable |
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| 05:31:56 | <dsal> | Ah. It sounded like you were just on chapter one. heh. |
| 05:32:24 | <dsal> | It's not a *perfect* book, but I liked the pace. I can totally understand why some people wouldn't like it. I enjoyed forgetting I ever knew how to program and just hopping in. |
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| 06:26:50 | <sm> | justsomeguy, maybe read some others for balance |
| 06:27:21 | <sm> | check this out: https://www.extrema.is/articles/haskell-books |
| 06:27:35 | <sm> | though if you've read 22 chapters of HPFFP maybe they have nothing to teach you :) |
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| 08:53:39 | <smtnet3> | sm, this is a great resource, currently going through hpffp and am looking for some more level up books from there |
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| 09:01:47 | <delYsid> | dyre is pretty cool, took me forever to discover it. |
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| 09:26:50 | <arahael> | Hmm, very much a newbie question: How do I run 'hprotoc' that is, I think, part of 'protocol-buffers'? How do I "install" it as part of my project? |
| 09:27:04 | <arahael> | I'm referring to this project, which is in hackage: https://github.com/k-bx/protocol-buffers |
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| 09:29:17 | <dminuoso> | arahael: Are you a cabal user? Stack user? |
| 09:30:23 | <arahael> | cabal. |
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| 09:30:49 | <dminuoso> | In which context do you want to run this? |
| 09:30:54 | <dminuoso> | From inside your haskell program? |
| 09:31:09 | <maerwald> | nova: haskell on gentoo's PM: clear no |
| 09:31:14 | <arahael> | Ah, no, I think I'd ideally want it pre-generated when compiling it. |
| 09:31:40 | <arahael> | Either as template-haskell, or well, plain old boring code generation. |
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| 09:33:00 | <dminuoso> | arahael: Use a custom Setup.hs |
| 09:33:34 | <arahael> | dminuoso: I've never done that. |
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| 09:34:41 | <dminuoso> | arahael: See https://github.com/google/proto-lens/blob/master/proto-lens-setup/src/Data/ProtoLens/Setup.hs |
| 09:35:16 | <dminuoso> | Also https://github.com/google/proto-lens/blob/master/proto-lens-setup/package.yaml |
| 09:35:40 | <arahael> | dminuoso: I'm really just looking for the hprotoc at this stage. Just did a `find .* -iname 'hprotoc'`, after ensuring that 'protocol-buffers' is in my project dependencies and having done a `cabal build` first... But... There are no results. |
| 09:35:50 | <dminuoso> | arahael: Yes. Look at the links I just provided. |
| 09:36:10 | <dminuoso> | Perhaps just the second one. |
| 09:37:11 | <arahael> | dminuoso: Looks like I need to use a different package? Specifically proto-lens-protoc ? |
| 09:37:35 | <dminuoso> | No. |
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| 09:40:44 | <arahael> | dminuoso: I'm not seeing anything in there that specifically installs protoc, though... But inferring from the docstrings in the Setup.hs file you've got there... It seems to throw an exception if it's not on the path? |
| 09:41:13 | <arahael> | This is line 9 of the Setup.hs file you've linked: -- These functions assume that the @proto-lens-protoc@ executable is on the |
| 09:41:51 | <arahael> | So I'm thinking hprotoc is an external dependency? |
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| 09:45:38 | <dminuoso> | arahael: You want to generate proto buffer definitions on the fly, fight? |
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| 09:46:28 | <dminuoso> | See https://hackage.haskell.org/package/proto-lens-setup (which is just the hackage version of the above link) |
| 09:47:05 | <arahael> | dminuoso: Lets restart, I've just discovered the readme.md file in that repository. And yes, I wanted to generate the haskell code for .proto files, however, I was looking specifically at protocol-buffers - the hackage package called "protocol-buffers". I think the one you've linked in is better and I should probably use that _instead_. |
| 09:47:42 | <dminuoso> | arahael: If you want to do this yourself, then my first link is relevant. :) |
| 09:47:47 | <dminuoso> | https://github.com/google/proto-lens/blob/master/proto-lens-setup/src/Data/ProtoLens/Setup.hs |
| 09:48:26 | <arahael> | dminuoso: The problem with seeing a few hundred lines of haskell is that I'm assuming I have to read, understand, and write that hundred or so lines! |
| 09:52:01 | <Gurkenglas> | what would be the modern way to build Dasher https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr3s4613DX8 in Haskell? Somethign something FRP? |
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| 09:53:02 | <dminuoso> | arahael: So I'm not experienced enough to give you an accurate description. I'm very likely to mix up terms and say wrong thing about cabal-install, Cabal-the-library, Setup.hs and the build process. |
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| 09:53:17 | <dminuoso> | But I can point you towards https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.4/cabal-package.html#more-complex-packages |
| 09:53:22 | <arahael> | dminuoso: I'm really just trying to get hprotoc (or whatever it's called). |
| 09:53:31 | <Taneb> | Gurkenglas: I'm not convinced there is an Accepted answer for custom GUIs like that in Haskell but FRP seems a reasonable approach |
| 09:54:06 | <Gurkenglas> | what library would you recommend? |
| 09:54:49 | <Taneb> | I don't have any recommendations for this I'm afraid |
| 09:55:56 | <arahael> | dminuoso: Ok, it's definitely an external dependency: "First, install the "protoc" binary somewhere in your PATH. You can get it by following these instructions." |
| 09:56:19 | <dminuoso> | arahael: Well. If you want this to happen during build, you have to do this inside Setup.hs |
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| 09:56:51 | <dminuoso> | And the easiest way is to depend on it via setup-depends |
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| 09:57:11 | <dminuoso> | That way you have the library at your disposal, and you can just call into it via Haskell directly |
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| 09:57:29 | <dminuoso> | Pretty much like proto-lens-setup |
| 09:58:01 | <dminuoso> | Id really say carefully take a look at: https://github.com/google/proto-lens/blob/master/proto-lens-setup/src/Data/ProtoLens/Setup.hs |
| 09:59:26 | <arahael> | dminuoso: Why does it need the `findExecutableOrDie` function there? |
| 10:00:59 | <dminuoso> | arahael: Ahh! |
| 10:01:10 | <dminuoso> | proto-lens-protoc is an executable package, not a library package |
| 10:01:16 | <dminuoso> | So I guess there's that./ |
| 10:01:38 | <arahael> | dminuoso: Not only that, but I suspect it's a "plugin" for the protoc application. |
| 10:01:55 | <dminuoso> | No, the dependency comes in via: |
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| 10:02:16 | <dminuoso> | https://github.com/google/proto-lens/blob/master/proto-lens-setup/package.yaml#L64 |
| 10:02:37 | <dminuoso> | Which is an executable: https://github.com/google/proto-lens/blob/master/proto-lens-protoc/package.yaml#L28-L29 |
| 10:03:53 | <arahael> | dminuoso: That executable is not called "protoc", though. |
| 10:04:47 | <arahael> | dminuoso: The readme.md of that project says, to run it manually, run: protoc --plugin=protoc-gen-haskell=`which proto-lens-protoc`--haskell_out=. foo.proto |
| 10:06:26 | <Gurkenglas> | Does FRP have any advantages over, say, gloss? |
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| 10:10:30 | <arahael> | I'm also getting a warning: Unknown field: "build-tool-depends" |
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| 10:35:51 | <arahael> | Ok, I'm stumped on that - I think when I use this alternative package - which looks better maintained than the one I was originally trying to use... There must be something wrong with my cabal setup. Maybe my version is too old, but the cconfusing thing is... 'build-tool-depends' was introduced in Cabal 2.0, but `cabal --version` reports 3.0.0 |
| 10:36:10 | <arahael> | 3.0.0.0, rather, and compiled using 3.0.0.0 of the Cabal library. |
| 10:36:12 | <arahael> | So it can't be too old. |
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| 10:44:35 | <uniproj> | Hi everyone, has anybody here studied haskell at university? |
| 10:45:07 | <arjun> | if only lol |
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| 10:45:35 | <Taneb> | I did |
| 10:45:39 | <Taneb> | But I already knew it |
| 10:45:39 | <arjun> | my uni thought C, C++ and Java would be a good use of our time |
| 10:45:57 | <arahael> | Hmm, I think one of my problems is my cabal file was also specified with `cabal-version: >=1.10`, I've now changed this to `cabal-version: 2.4`, the highest version I can find that I think my cabal supports. But it's still an unknown field: "build-tool-depends". |
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| 10:48:33 | <uniproj> | I need to come up with an idea for my final year project and I'd like to use Haskell if possible but I'm not sure where to start |
| 10:48:49 | <arahael> | Oh, that's curious: If I move it from the 'custom-setup' section to the executable section, build-tool-depends suddenly stops resulting in an error. (I don't know if it is ignored, though) |
| 10:49:18 | <fendor> | We learned Haskell in our third semester |
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| 10:49:25 | <arjun> | where should i start? :- getting a PHD in category theory ofc (sarcasm) |
| 10:49:40 | <arahael> | uniproj: I think picking haskell for a final year project is a bit risky. Perhaps do a few sample projects in it first? |
| 10:50:03 | <arahael> | uniproj: I mean, if you've never used haskell before. |
| 10:50:35 | <arjun> | i remember i dropped a final year project making robots with node.js. too risky |
| 10:50:51 | <uniproj> | We were taught fp in 1st and 2nd year, 2nd year with Haskell |
| 10:50:55 | <arjun> | made a SaaS in ruby on rails instead. passed EZ |
| 10:51:54 | <arjun> | uniproj: that's an interesting take. how does it usually turn out for students? |
| 10:52:12 | × | burnsidesLlama quits (~burnsides@dhcp168-011.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 10:52:39 | <arjun> | like how do they manage when they invariable are faced with some python , c++, java etc? |
| 10:52:48 | <arjun> | invariably* |
| 10:53:10 | <uniproj> | fp was just one module each year, java was the main language |
| 10:53:27 | <arjun> | i see |
| 10:53:29 | <uniproj> | one thing I was surprised about with uni was how little programming we did in 1st/2nd year |
| 10:53:47 | <arjun> | 1st year is a high school recap |
| 10:54:02 | <arjun> | and to give you a little time to get adjusted to "college and stuff" |
| 10:54:25 | <uniproj> | yeah for sure |
| 10:54:50 | <uniproj> | thing is now that I've got a chance to do a lot of programming, I'd like to do it in Haskell if I can |
| 10:56:20 | <arjun> | since it IS tought to you in college, it should be alright given professors and mentors / supervisors should already by familiar with FP and haskell |
| 10:56:51 | <arjun> | at many places where FP is not tought, that's a hard sell |
| 10:57:43 | <arjun> | since you asked (where to start) it would first be selecting a project to make |
| 10:58:12 | <arjun> | and then chosing your mentor / supervisor / person you'd do the project under |
| 10:58:53 | <arjun> | you could see if you can also team up with other students into doing a group project (mine allowed groups of upto 4 people) |
| 10:59:01 | <uniproj> | I did have a supervisor who suggested a type checker for a type theory but a) that was too hard and b) he's left now |
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| 10:59:56 | <arjun> | then you should have a new supervisor assigned i reckon? |
| 11:01:16 | <uniproj> | the project lead has basically said to choose a project and he'll assign a supervisor |
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| 11:02:01 | <arjun> | that really is for you to choose : P |
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| 11:06:48 | <arahael> | I'm wondering if there's an error in the example foo-bar-proto.cabal file in https://github.com/google/proto-lens, because that "build-tool-depends" is absolutely an error. |
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| 11:07:31 | <dminuoso> | arahael: Im really not sure what your point was there, by the way. |
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| 11:12:18 | <arahael> | dminuoso: I'm just not sure how to bootstrap my project to using all this, and I was initially confused by the direct links to specific files in proto-lens. (Which IS a completely different package). |
| 11:13:08 | <arahael> | dminuoso: Also, you've been contradicting the documentation of proto-lens, which says I do infact need to install protoc. |
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| 11:13:39 | <arahael> | dminuoso: On top of that, it seems my cabal project was using an ancient cabal-version, despite using newer tools and newer libraries. |
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| 11:14:14 | <arahael> | dminuoso: To give you an idea of where I am in the project: I don't have .proto files yet, nor do I have protoc installed. |
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| 11:17:22 | <arahael> | dminuoso: My interpretation of all this so far is that you're probably right and I might not actually need protoc at all; but I've not quite yet gotten past the 'build-tool-depends' issue either. The project is not using yaml, it's just pure cabal. |
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| 11:24:05 | <arahael> | I've just created a new cabal project using `cabal init --cabal-version=2.4 --license=NONE -p myfirstapp` |
| 11:24:16 | <arahael> | And have made edits to teh cabal file as described in the readme.md file: |
| 11:24:22 | <arahael> | https://gist.github.com/arafangion/4649c7ddaae805ff9f906107dc89d641 |
| 11:24:47 | <arahael> | When running `cabal build`, it shows: Warning: myfirstapp.cabal:23:3: Unknown field: "build-tool-depends" |
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| 11:29:15 | <arahael> | (Does that make sense yet? I'm not really doing a good job of explaining these things... :( ) |
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| 11:32:28 | <yin[m]> | are arguments in lambdas irrefutable? |
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| 12:00:53 | <mniip> | yin[m], yes |
| 12:01:08 | <mniip> | unless LambdaCase |
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| 12:07:04 | <yin[m]> | hum... |
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| 12:07:35 | yin[m] | < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/428d266281b63163dc12428e334abb3fe82a9d3f/message.txt > |
| 12:07:56 | <yin[m]> | does this this apply? |
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| 12:10:37 | <dminuoso> | arahael: So best to talk about this when you need it then. |
| 12:10:59 | <boxscape> | % (\(Just x) -> 4) Nothing |
| 12:10:59 | <yahb> | boxscape: *** Exception: <interactive>:23:2-15: Non-exhaustive patterns in lambda |
| 12:11:08 | <boxscape> | yin: I would say that qualifies as not irrefutable |
| 12:11:19 | <dminuoso> | arahael: So a custom Setup.hs lets you hook into the build process, customize it, do things at various times. One thing you can do, for example, is simply call executables in a hook. |
| 12:11:26 | <dminuoso> | This would then trigger each time you run `cabal build` |
| 12:11:55 | <dminuoso> | The library I showed you provides exactly such a hook (it exposes it as a library, btw, such that other users can just import it, and use that) |
| 12:12:00 | <arahael> | dminuoso: Yeah, I was just very confused to how the executables actually get downloaded and used. |
| 12:12:10 | <dminuoso> | arahael: A setup has a defined api, which is `main :: IO ()` and this main is expected to do certain things. |
| 12:12:24 | <dminuoso> | cabal brings some default things, like defaultMain |
| 12:12:33 | <arahael> | Which is what I usually use. |
| 12:13:08 | <dminuoso> | Right. https://github.com/google/proto-lens/blob/master/proto-lens-setup/src/Data/ProtoLens/Setup.hs#L149 |
| 12:13:13 | <boxscape> | % (\~(Just 4) -> 4) Nothing -- yin compare with this |
| 12:13:13 | <yahb> | boxscape: ; <interactive>:25:13: error: parse error on input `->' |
| 12:13:16 | <dminuoso> | defaultMainWithHooks is also from Cabal |
| 12:13:24 | <boxscape> | erm |
| 12:13:48 | <dminuoso> | This is a bit more custom, since you say "dont change the build, but I want to do provide some hooks" |
| 12:14:00 | <boxscape> | % (\(~(Just 4)) -> 4) Nothing |
| 12:14:00 | <yahb> | boxscape: 4 |
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| 12:14:06 | <dminuoso> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Cabal-3.4.0.0/docs/Distribution-Simple.html#v:defaultMainWithHooks |
| 12:14:11 | <arahael> | dminuoso: Yeah, that bit makes sense actually. |
| 12:14:13 | <dminuoso> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Cabal-3.4.0.0/docs/Distribution-Simple.html#t:UserHooks |
| 12:14:20 | <dminuoso> | So here, you can provide hooks at various phases during theb uild |
| 12:14:32 | <dminuoso> | And inside that hook, you just call something |
| 12:15:33 | <dminuoso> | setup-depends then lets you specify things that must be available during setup such as libraries or executable packages |
| 12:15:54 | <arahael> | dminuoso: Yeah - and I was thinking that maybe it's the build-tool-depends that actually makes the executable package available. |
| 12:16:01 | <arahael> | dminuoso: Which sadly doesn't appear to wokr for me. |
| 12:16:09 | <arahael> | *work |
| 12:16:20 | <dminuoso> | arahael: I dont understand the details, but build-tool doesn't quite work here :( |
| 12:16:38 | <arahael> | dminuoso: From what I read in the documentation, build-tool has actually been removed in cabal 3.0 |
| 12:16:50 | <arahael> | dminuoso: Replaced by build-tool-depends, I think. |
| 12:17:19 | <dminuoso> | Right |
| 12:17:28 | <arahael> | https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.4/cabal-package.html?highlight=custom-setup#pkg-field-build-tools |
| 12:17:31 | <dminuoso> | `Cabal tries to make sure that all specified programs are atomically built and prepended on the $PATH shell variable before building the component in question, but can only do so for Nix-style builds. Specifically:` |
| 12:17:33 | <dminuoso> | Mmm |
| 12:17:37 | <dminuoso> | arahael: Are you sure it doesnt work? |
| 12:17:42 | <dminuoso> | It sounds like it could, perhaps |
| 12:18:02 | <dminuoso> | Ah, perhaps its not available during setup phase |
| 12:18:11 | <dminuoso> | But you have setup-depends, which should suffice |
| 12:18:31 | <arahael> | dminuoso: I get a pretty clear warning that 'build-tool-depends' is an unknown field. |
| 12:19:22 | <dminuoso> | What cabal version have you set in your cabal file? |
| 12:19:32 | <arahael> | dminuoso: I've provided the gist, one moment: |
| 12:19:41 | <arahael> | https://gist.github.com/arafangion/4649c7ddaae805ff9f906107dc89d641 |
| 12:19:50 | <arahael> | So that would be cabal version 2.4 |
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| 12:28:10 | <arahael> | dminuoso: I'm afraid I need to prepare for bed - thanks for your help - and also for pointing me to proto-lens. |
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| 15:50:50 | <sergio812> | Hello there, |
| 15:50:57 | <sergio812> | I'm trying to link a proprietary C++-based library using FFI, and I run into some difficulties (I've never used Haskell's FFI before). |
| 15:51:05 | <sergio812> | I have a "C-only" small example with 3 small files (".c", ".h" and ".hs") that works fine. |
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| 15:51:17 | <sergio812> | But my "C++ via C" small example with 5 small files (".c", ".h", ".cpp", ".hpp" and ".hs") doesn't work (link error). |
| 15:51:23 | <sergio812> | Even though small (41 lines for the 5 files), I'm not sure sending this on IRC is appropriate... |
| 15:51:29 | <sergio812> | How/where can I do ask for help? |
| 15:51:45 | <geekosaur> | reddit might work better |
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| 15:53:01 | <sergio812> | Thanks |
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| 16:09:02 | <zzz> | how can i ask for the type of a function applied to a specific type, like when we write `a ~ Bool` or whatever? |
| 16:09:26 | <zzz> | i think i've seen it |
| 16:09:30 | <zzz> | but am not sure |
| 16:10:46 | <Taneb> | You could give it a type signature, like ((==) :: Bool -> Bool -> Bool), or you could use the TypeApplications extension, like ((==) @Bool) |
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| 16:14:52 | <zzz> | how about asking ghc for the class instance of a type? |
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| 16:16:57 | <zzz> | i got it. bad memory today |
| 16:17:05 | <zzz> | thanks anyway |
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| 16:51:21 | <dminuoso> | zzz: f (undefined :: T) :: _ |
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| 16:55:50 | <metaweta> | A directed multigraph is a pair of sets E,V with maps s,t:E->V. I can implement that with a MultiParamTypeClass. The box product of two such graphs has vertices V1 x V2, horizontal edges V1 x E2 and vertical edges E1 x V2. How would you write the box product as a type constructor? |
| 16:56:22 | <metaweta> | Or is there a better way? |
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| 17:01:29 | <monochrom> | Are we meant to do some kind of union, perhaps disjoint union, of V1xE2 and E1xV2 for the new set of edges? |
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| 17:04:41 | <monochrom> | I think I may define "data BoxProdV v1 v2 = MkBoxProdV v1 v2" and "data BoxProdE v1 e1 v2 e2 = ???". Then "instance (G v1 e1) (G v2 e2) => G (BoxProdV v1 v2) (BoxProdE v1 e1 v2 e2)" can make sense. |
| 17:05:06 | <monochrom> | err, instance (G v1 e1, G v2 e2) => G (BoxProdV v1 v2) (BoxProdE v1 e1 v2 e2) |
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| 17:06:18 | <metaweta> | > disjoint union, of V1xE2 and E1xV2 for the new set of edges |
| 17:06:19 | <metaweta> | yes |
| 17:06:20 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:15: error: parse error on input ‘,’ |
| 17:07:56 | <metaweta> | so I guess "data BoxProdE v1 e1 v2 e2 = Horz v1 e2 | Vert e1 v2" |
| 17:08:29 | <monochrom> | Yeah |
| 17:08:31 | <metaweta> | How do you capture the functions s and t as part of the graph? |
| 17:08:39 | <monochrom> | I don't know. |
| 17:09:04 | <monochrom> | Haven't learned box product, much less what it does to s and t. |
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| 17:12:22 | <metaweta> | s and t pick out the source and target of an edge. So given an edge e1:u1->v1 and an edge e2:u2->v2, the horizontal edges are (u1, e2):(u1,u2)->(u1,v2), (v1, e2):(v1,u2)->(v1,v2), (e1, u2): (u1,u2) -> (v1,u2) and (e1,v2):(u1,v2)->(v1,v2) |
| 17:12:37 | <metaweta> | sorry the last two are the vertical edges |
| 17:13:50 | <metaweta> | the box product of two edges is a box (as opposed to the categorical product which also has a diagonal (e1,e2):(u1,u2)->(v1,v2)) |
| 17:16:04 | <h98> | why not just define BoxProduct e1 v1 e2 v2 as a multiparam type class and implement an instance for the constraint that E1 V1 and E2 V2 form directed multigraphs? |
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| 17:17:55 | <metaweta> | Yeah, I was thinking "class G e v where s::e->v; t::e->v" |
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| 17:21:14 | <metaweta> | How would I write the constraint in the instance declaration? "instance G e1 v1, G e2 v2 => BoxProduct e1 v1 e2 v2 where ..." ? |
| 17:22:06 | <h98> | instance (G e1 v1, G e2 v2) => BoxProduct e1 v1 e2 v2 where |
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| 17:22:22 | <metaweta> | thx, will try |
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| 17:29:12 | <metaweta> | I've got "instance (G v1 e1, G v2 e2) => G (v1, v2) (BoxProduct v1 e1 v2 e2) where s Horz v e = (v, s e); t Horz v e = (v, t e); s Vert e v = (s e, v); t Vert e v = (t e, v)" |
| 17:30:11 | <metaweta> | I'd like to define the behavior of s,t on the new instance in terms of s,t on the given instances. What's the right way? |
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| 17:57:08 | <zzz> | dminuoso: thanks |
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| 18:13:59 | <lechner> | Hi, is Opaleye a good way to write typesafe and composable code to query a Postgres database? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/opaleye |
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| 18:45:42 | <maerwald> | ok, so I finally broke hlints parser with quasi quotes too |
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| 18:47:17 | <monochrom> | :) |
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| 18:48:50 | <maerwald> | #{bc}|] -- is the closing line of a quasi quote... |
| 18:48:56 | <maerwald> | it's probably thinking... hmm, CPP? |
| 18:49:40 | <monochrom> | yeah |
| 18:50:08 | <monochrom> | How recently was hlint updated anyway? |
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| 19:18:08 | <maerwald> | it seems to be using ghc-lib-parser |
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| 19:18:19 | <maerwald> | but that doesn't help |
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| 19:41:51 | <delYsid> | Your favourite haskell talk on yt? |
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| 19:50:25 | <jackhill> | delYsid: there's so much good stuff out there, but on the implementation side, I like "Into the Core - Squeezing Haskell into Nine Constructors by Simon Peyton Jones" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uR_VzYxvbxg |
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| 19:58:43 | <delYsid> | jackhill: Thanks, good reminder. |
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| 20:00:35 | <sm> | stack source code gives a warning if you build with trace calls like traceShowId in the code, but I don't see how. Any ideas ? |
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| 20:01:59 | <maerwald> | what's the warning |
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| 20:05:12 | <h98> | is there a way to uninstance something for a more specific type? Like say I have instance Foo a where... but want this to specifically not apply to Int |
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| 20:05:51 | <h98> | I know I can replace the instance with overlapping etc, but I want to really undefine it so I'd get a compile error if I tried to invoke it |
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| 20:08:40 | <sm> | maerwald: "Trace statement left in code" |
| 20:09:16 | <sm> | good idea.. I see it defined with WARNING pragmas in https://hackage.haskell.org/package/rio-0.1.0.0/docs/src/RIO.Prelude.Trace.html |
| 20:10:02 | <maerwald> | use Debug.Trace instead then |
| 20:10:20 | <sm> | https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/exts/pragmas.html?highlight=pragmas#warning-and-deprecated-pragmas, sweet |
| 20:10:32 | <sm> | I was wondering how to do the same in my code |
| 20:10:35 | <maerwald> | ah |
| 20:10:38 | spoonm | is now known as hayoung |
| 20:11:03 | <maerwald> | new stack release btw |
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| 20:15:05 | <sm> | oh nice, thanks! |
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| 20:16:36 | <lechner> | Hi, does it matter whether I use 'try' and 'SomeException(..)' from Control.Exception or Control.Monad.Catch, please? This code looks great but does not work. Thanks! https://dpaste.org/FdkL#L24,25 |
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| 20:19:13 | <maerwald> | lechner: evaluate might not be enough to trigger the exception |
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| 20:19:27 | <maerwald> | see the documentation on 'evaluate' |
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| 20:20:29 | <maerwald> | converting to strict ByteString is usually would you do in such a case |
| 20:21:47 | <lechner> | the key here being that the "head" of a lazy ByteString is just that? |
| 20:22:10 | <maerwald> | you'll probably only force the first chunk, yeah |
| 20:22:25 | <maerwald> | @hoogle deepseq |
| 20:22:26 | <lambdabot> | package deepseq |
| 20:22:26 | <lambdabot> | Control.DeepSeq deepseq :: NFData a => a -> b -> b |
| 20:22:26 | <lambdabot> | Protolude deepseq :: NFData a => a -> b -> b |
| 20:22:34 | <lechner> | chunk? |
| 20:22:45 | <maerwald> | yes |
| 20:23:48 | <maerwald> | data ByteString = Empty | Chunk {-# UNPACK #-} !S.ByteString ByteString |
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| 20:25:35 | <maerwald> | lazy bytestring is sloppy streaming |
| 20:25:47 | <lechner> | i am starting to get it |
| 20:25:59 | <maerwald> | if you can, avoid it |
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| 20:26:15 | <lechner> | getting it is good |
| 20:26:30 | <lechner> | sorry, bad pun |
| 20:26:43 | <maerwald> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/lzma-conduit-1.2.1/docs/Data-Conduit-Lzma.html |
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| 20:27:13 | <lechner> | but going strict will evalutate the whole thing, regardless of chunks, right? |
| 20:27:25 | <maerwald> | yeah |
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| 20:27:46 | <maerwald> | you can use deepseq |
| 20:27:53 | <maerwald> | see the documentation on 'evaluate' |
| 20:28:33 | <maerwald> | converting to strict will also cause memory copy |
| 20:28:37 | <lechner> | i actally have a strict bytestring from the socket |
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| 20:29:59 | <sm> | would anyone have thoughts on https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stack/issues/5591 ? The GHC_ENVIRONMENT file created by `stack test` is breaking doctest, only with GHC 9.0. I wonder if it could be the newer template-haskell 2.17, and how to test that |
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| 20:30:30 | <lechner> | maerwald: why does 'evaluate' only go to WHNF, please? |
| 20:30:50 | <sm> | aha I can think of a way |
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| 20:31:12 | <maerwald> | lechner: because this is haskell? |
| 20:31:20 | <maerwald> | well |
| 20:31:25 | <maerwald> | not necessarily |
| 20:31:47 | <maerwald> | lazy evaluation and all |
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| 20:32:08 | <maerwald> | you *could* define other evaluation functions, sure |
| 20:32:26 | <maerwald> | and in a pure language they shall all be equivalent-ish |
| 20:32:38 | <lechner> | i always thought 'lazy evaluation' was a contradiction in terms, but here it is |
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| 20:35:45 | <lechner> | does a half-lazy 'evaluate' make sense with ByteStrings, though? |
| 20:36:32 | <davean> | what is "half-lazy"? |
| 20:36:38 | <lechner> | WHNF |
| 20:36:42 | <maerwald> | huh? |
| 20:36:46 | <davean> | in what way is that half lazy? |
| 20:37:20 | <lechner> | well, it's apparently not doing a complete evaluation |
| 20:37:25 | <maerwald> | there's also HNF |
| 20:37:29 | <maerwald> | and NF |
| 20:37:31 | <davean> | Its going to *A* complete evaluation |
| 20:37:43 | <maerwald> | lechner: for the 3rd time: read the documentation on 'evaluate' |
| 20:37:50 | <davean> | just not all complete evaluations that are below that |
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| 20:38:08 | <lechner> | i am, but they recommend force instead of deepseq |
| 20:38:41 | <lechner> | shallow evaluation would have been a better term |
| 20:39:11 | <maerwald> | lazy evaluation is an operational term anyway |
| 20:39:42 | <maerwald> | not sure those terms are that precise to begin with |
| 20:40:12 | <lechner> | deepseq only does the first chunk, while evaluate $ force does the whole string? |
| 20:40:13 | <davean> | Theres several well defined steps of evaluation |
| 20:40:27 | <maerwald> | lechner: try it |
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| 20:40:45 | <maerwald> | deepseq and force are kinda the same thing |
| 20:40:59 | <maerwald> | read the documentation of 'force' |
| 20:41:23 | <maerwald> | @src force |
| 20:41:24 | <lambdabot> | Source not found. My mind is going. I can feel it. |
| 20:41:46 | <maerwald> | no shortcut, use your browser |
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| 20:42:04 | <lechner> | What's an easy way to figure out the hackage package name from the docs, please? |
| 20:42:22 | <maerwald> | @hoogle force |
| 20:42:23 | <lambdabot> | Data.Vector force :: Vector a -> Vector a |
| 20:42:23 | <lambdabot> | Data.Vector.Generic force :: Vector v a => v a -> v a |
| 20:42:23 | <lambdabot> | Data.Vector.Primitive force :: Prim a => Vector a -> Vector a |
| 20:42:24 | <lechner> | at the very top, i suppose |
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| 20:42:45 | <maerwald> | @where hoogle |
| 20:42:45 | <lambdabot> | https://hoogle.haskell.org |
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| 20:46:21 | <lechner> | maerwald: you nailed it! force did it. thanks so much! |
| 20:47:00 | <maerwald> | here's my BTC address... |
| 20:52:34 | <maerwald> | lechner: also: awful API from lzma |
| 20:53:21 | <maerwald> | streamly might soon support things like that |
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| 21:05:29 | <lechner> | maerwald: Debian is tight on cash (and BTC) but I credited you and dsal on the website. I hope it compensates you, however inadequately, for your kind. Thanks so much to both of you! https://lintian.debian.org/ |
| 21:07:09 | <lechner> | that was supposed to read "kind help". Anyway, thanks! |
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| 21:19:26 | <h98> | is there a standard size function/class that will give me the length of a type of kind [*]? like "size @(Int ': Int ': String ': Float) = 4" |
| 21:19:49 | <h98> | (I can write one obviously, just wondering if it's in a library somewhere) |
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| 21:39:39 | <[exa]> | h98: you might have luck with Generics |
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| 21:43:05 | <[exa]> | (or maybe with just gfoldl) |
| 21:44:05 | <smtnet3> | man... i gotta learn me some generics |
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| 21:51:01 | <[exa]> | % gfoldl (\(Const n) _ -> Const (n+1)) (const $ Const 0) (Just 5) |
| 21:51:01 | <yahb> | [exa]: Const 1 |
| 21:51:12 | <[exa]> | % gfoldl (\(Const n) _ -> Const (n+1)) (const $ Const 0) (1:[]) |
| 21:51:12 | <yahb> | [exa]: Const 2 |
| 21:51:16 | <[exa]> | \o/ |
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| 21:51:37 | <[exa]> | h98: ^ might work |
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| 21:52:28 | <h98> | hah I gave up and just wrote it out: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/E9c62Vka |
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| 21:53:14 | <[exa]> | kinda wondering how this interacts with ': |
| 21:53:40 | <[exa]> | (nvm I'm off for today) |
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| 23:03:56 | <schuelermine> | Is it on-topic to talk about software written in Haskell, not necesarily in respect to its code, here? |
| 23:04:29 | <geekosaur> | yes |
| 23:05:15 | <schuelermine> | Cool |
| 23:05:44 | <geekosaur> | it may not be the best place to get help for something like pandoc or hledger though |
| 23:05:57 | <schuelermine> | no that’s not what I mean |
| 23:06:11 | <glguy> | you mean like *real software*? |
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| 23:08:46 | <schuelermine> | glguy: honestly I was originally thinking about https://github.com/samtay/tetris, a neat TUI tetris written in Haskell |
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| 23:09:05 | <schuelermine> | prolly a fair bit off of the main topic tho |
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| 23:18:29 | <h98> | are "minor page faults" something I should worry about or do I just ignore the number? from \time -v ... apparently ~1800 in my program |
| 23:19:15 | <sm> | schuelermine: oh that looks nice. There's also #haskell-game and corresponding matrix rooms |
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| 23:20:45 | <geekosaur> | minor page faults are just allocations as seen by time |
| 23:21:09 | <geekosaur> | ghc's 2-stage allocator confuses many tools |
| 23:21:35 | <h98> | cool thanks, i'll ignore it then |
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| 23:22:32 | <geekosaur> | well, it's not completely ignorable if your program is using more memory than you think it should, but the next step is done with ghc which knows what's actually going on |
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| 23:48:05 | <delYsid> | schuelermine: btw, I repurposed samtay's tetris to create a version playable on braille displays. "ssh betris@blind.guru" for a demo :-) |
| 23:48:37 | <schuelermine> | Cool, I don’ |
| 23:48:43 | <schuelermine> | t have a braille TTY, unfor |
| 23:48:45 | <schuelermine> | tunately |
| 23:49:35 | <delYsid> | It uses unicode braille, so with the right font, the principle should work even if you are just using a "normal" monitor :-) |
| 23:50:19 | <delYsid> | anyway, samtay/tetris is a pretty neat piece of code |
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| 23:53:45 | <schuelermine> | delYsid: can you share the fingerprint of your SSH instance? |
| 23:53:49 | <schuelermine> | I want to verify |
| 23:54:11 | <delYsid> | brick is the first tui library I happen to like. ncurses killed my productivity when I moved from directly writing to 0xB8000 to Linux many many years ago. brick is the first library that makes me want write TUIs again. |
| 23:56:17 | <schuelermine> | delYsid: huh |
| 23:56:22 | <schuelermine> | I can’t seem to input anything |
| 23:56:42 | <schuelermine> | do you have a GH repo? |
| 23:57:06 | <delYsid> | schuelermine: 256 SHA256:B1A9OjQV6pqqko2ANAyiJ1YrNqjmeHi8xUuAQxGe+yQ blind.guru (ED25519) |
| 23:57:33 | <delYsid> | schuelermine: https://github.com/mlang/betris |
| 23:58:11 | <delYsid> | The same is flipped 90-degrees, also the controls. So you "drop" with cursor left, and move the tetrimino with cursor up/down. Press return to rotate |
| 23:58:21 | <delYsid> | s/same/game/ |
| 23:58:54 | <delYsid> | Took me 20 years to realize that tetris is actually easily portable to braille |
| 23:59:31 | <monochrom> | Heh "directly write to 0xB8000". Real programmers. :) |
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All times are in UTC on 2021-07-20.