Logs on 2021-07-22 (liberachat/#haskell)
| 00:00:29 | <arkanoid> | dsal: thanks for the video! I've been zapping through some different videos about haskell and haskell history, just to get a comfortable context around this new side project of mine. Would you suggest some particular good videos about haskell or functional programming in general, just like the one you just shared |
| 00:00:48 | <sm> | arkanoid, two other things you might like are doctest and ghcid -T |
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| 00:01:53 | <sm> | I wouldn't be surprised if there's a vscode haskell feature/extension to run tests continuously, too |
| 00:02:11 | <sm> | if not, there ought to be |
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| 00:04:28 | <arkanoid> | doctest! Interesting! I've been doing those for a while in my imperative past, but I've developed some kind of skepticism for huge source code files made 80% of comments (just general speaking, I have almost zero experience with haskell and functional programming in general) |
| 00:05:09 | <arkanoid> | my stack environment doesn not have ghcid executable |
| 00:05:27 | <geekosaur> | ghcid is a separate package |
| 00:06:23 | <geekosaur> | it's a little thing that runs ghci on your package every time something changes, to catch newly introduced bugs |
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| 00:07:31 | <arkanoid> | this is sweet! I'm going to try this right now |
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| 00:12:39 | <arkanoid> | well it seems doing the same thing I'm getting from vscode + extension, but having it separately in a terminal enables tmux with vim + ghcid! Thanks a lot |
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| 00:16:34 | <monochrom> | My http://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/forwardconstraint/ForwardConstraint.hs is 90% comments. |
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| 00:20:52 | <Boarders> | I am converting some code from MonadReader to MonadState |
| 00:21:00 | <Boarders> | is there a convenient way to update the local function |
| 00:21:09 | <Boarders> | at present I am writing three lines where I use modifying |
| 00:21:16 | <Boarders> | but wondered if there is something slicker |
| 00:21:25 | <Boarders> | (modifying from lens but that part doesn't matter) |
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| 00:28:00 | <sm> | you can always keep doctests in a separate file. downside is you probably won't write tests |
| 00:32:02 | <adamCS> | stateLocal f x = do {old <- get; modify f; result <- x; put old; return result; } |
| 00:32:24 | <adamCS> | Boarders: ^. But I think you already are doing something like that? |
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| 00:42:44 | <Boarders> | that is my conclusion too adamCS |
| 00:42:46 | <Boarders> | thanks |
| 00:43:12 | <arkanoid> | I feel like using pack and unpack functions too much while forcing my functions to handle text manipulation using the Text type instead of String |
| 00:44:06 | <arkanoid> | can I use (head:tail) pattern patch for Text too? |
| 00:44:15 | <arkanoid> | *match |
| 00:44:58 | <geekosaur> | no |
| 00:45:07 | <dsal> | arkanoid: yeah (though not with that syntax). But also, don't use string |
| 00:45:21 | <Boarders> | adamCS: do you know if this will be massively wasteful computationally? |
| 00:46:00 | <PotatoHatsue> | use Text.uncons with ViewPatterns |
| 00:46:05 | <sm> | i don't agree with blanket "don't use string", everything is a trade off |
| 00:46:22 | <dsal> | stripPrefix :: Text -> Text -> Maybe Text |
| 00:46:32 | <arkanoid> | dsal: but if I have to make first character uppercase, would you still use Text? |
| 00:46:41 | <dsal> | Well, if you're converting between string and text a lot, you could just not use text. :) |
| 00:47:51 | <dsal> | > T.toTitle (T.pack "there's a thing for title stuff") |
| 00:47:53 | <lambdabot> | "There's A Thing For Title Stuff" |
| 00:47:57 | <dsal> | Otherwise, you could just make the thing you need. |
| 00:48:07 | <h98> | anyone know if something like this is possible with quantifiers? https://paste.tomsmeding.com/ZBwdMcJB (question at the bottom) |
| 00:48:32 | <dsal> | (I use String a lot, but, you know... 🤠) |
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| 00:49:17 | <sm> | when string is good, use string. for newcomers, given current haskell ecosystem, string is great |
| 00:50:09 | <arkanoid> | what do you mean by "given curent haskell ecosystem"? |
| 00:50:19 | <arkanoid> | is it polluted? |
| 00:50:22 | <dsal> | String is the default and lots of stuff uses it. |
| 00:50:39 | <dsal> | Also, Text isn't the only alternative to String and sometimes Text is wrong. |
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| 00:51:07 | <arkanoid> | What doesn it mean "Subject to fusion"? |
| 00:51:15 | <sm> | string works out of the box and is easy to understand. text doesn't and isn't |
| 00:51:29 | <dsal> | arkanoid: fusion is optimization magic |
| 00:51:58 | <dsal> | e.g., `map f . filter g` can be fused into a single pass |
| 00:52:09 | <arkanoid> | sm: I am feeling exactly that, like not being in the place where a newbie should be |
| 00:52:11 | <sm> | once you're using a lot of libs with text based apis it's different |
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| 01:01:54 | <arkanoid> | what's the correct function to join/concat [String] into String without separator? |
| 01:02:12 | <arkanoid> | kinda flat? |
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| 01:02:18 | <geekosaur> | concat? |
| 01:02:24 | <sm> | really what we need is a default TextString that scales smoothly from drop dead easy and simple to industrial strength |
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| 01:02:37 | <geekosaur> | :t concat |
| 01:02:38 | <lambdabot> | Foldable t => t [a] -> [a] |
| 01:02:58 | <infinisil> | :t join |
| 01:02:59 | <lambdabot> | Monad m => m (m a) -> m a |
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| 01:06:10 | <arkanoid> | thanks |
| 01:06:48 | <geekosaur> | there's also mconcat which is a little more general |
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| 01:06:52 | <geekosaur> | :t mconcat |
| 01:06:53 | <lambdabot> | Monoid a => [a] -> a |
| 01:08:22 | <infinisil> | :t fold |
| 01:08:23 | <lambdabot> | (Foldable t, Monoid m) => t m -> m |
| 01:08:28 | <infinisil> | Or even more general ^ |
| 01:10:09 | <arkanoid> | I've yet to face Monoids/Monads/Applications, but they are the main reason I'm teaching myself haskell (I want to be a better imperative programmer by learning how to push effects on the edge) |
| 01:10:49 | <arkanoid> | to match the first, the second and the tail is (a,(b,tail)) ? |
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| 01:11:43 | <dsal> | arkanoid: fold |
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| 01:12:20 | <dsal> | I'm slow today. |
| 01:12:22 | <dibblego> | (a:b:tail) |
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| 01:13:08 | <jeetelongname> | ?? |
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| 01:14:12 | <geekosaur> | I think they were first asking in the context of Text, not String? |
| 01:15:08 | <arkanoid> | now I've reverted to String |
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| 01:25:51 | <Boarders> | this question might be sort of nonsense but is there any version of having Reader where if you throw an error you also get access to the local environment at that point? |
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| 01:26:07 | <Boarders> | I don't really want state because I don't want to do stateful things other than that |
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| 01:28:48 | <dsal> | State has a lot of downsides. |
| 01:29:13 | <dsal> | I'm not sure what you mean by throwing an error, though. You can do `ReaderT ExceptT` I assume. |
| 01:30:17 | <arkanoid> | is there a builtin function that filters a list in order until a condition is met on an element? I've built mine, but I'm interested in knowing |
| 01:31:01 | <dibblego> | @type find |
| 01:31:02 | <lambdabot> | Foldable t => (a -> Bool) -> t a -> Maybe a |
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| 01:31:22 | <dibblego> | > find even [1,3,5,7,8,3,5] |
| 01:31:24 | <lambdabot> | Just 8 |
| 01:31:28 | <dibblego> | > find even [1,3,5,7] |
| 01:31:30 | <lambdabot> | Nothing |
| 01:34:13 | <arkanoid> | and to return [1,3,5,7] instead of Just 8? (elements up to found one) |
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| 01:35:00 | <geekosaur> | > takeWhile odd [1,3,5,7,8,3,5] |
| 01:35:02 | <lambdabot> | [1,3,5,7] |
| 01:37:38 | <dsal> | > takeWhile (not . even) [1,3,5,7,8,3,5] -- if you want to think about it that way |
| 01:37:40 | <lambdabot> | [1,3,5,7] |
| 01:41:05 | <arkanoid> | yeah! very nice |
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| 01:43:48 | <arkanoid> | and to return 8,5,3? Like "discard until condition" |
| 01:45:32 | <arkanoid> | or "filter with stop condition" |
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| 01:50:44 | <monochrom> | dropWhile |
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| 01:57:51 | <sm> | see also break, span, partition |
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| 02:00:44 | <arkanoid> | thanks (also for your patience) |
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| 02:23:06 | <dsal> | Or just read Data.List docs. :) And maybe Foldable. |
| 02:25:23 | <sm> | and the split library. (List part deux) |
| 02:25:41 | <sm> | it's never "just" with Haskell :) |
| 02:26:31 | <dsal> | Ha. Yeah. "Oh, you think you've read all the docs? ..." |
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| 02:29:39 | <arkanoid> | well, I've finally succeeded in passing the test for my first haskell program. Also first use of Maybe monad! No bind yet and surely I've been missing all possible chances to write better code, but this made my day https://exercism.io/tracks/haskell/exercises/acronym/solutions/fd01b2dda63344518e86b263aaeac983 |
| 02:29:51 | <jeetelongname> | hoogle is a wonderful reasourse if you have not checked it out |
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| 02:30:10 | <arkanoid> | yeah I've been using it quite a lot on the last couple hours |
| 02:30:30 | <sm> | congrats! |
| 02:31:22 | <arkanoid> | any suggestion is welcome! |
| 02:31:38 | <sm> | maybe too late now, but I enjoyed project euler in the beginning - it was more about numbers, which were easier |
| 02:32:25 | <jeetelongname> | another reasourse I have been using is https://www.cis.upenn.edu/~cis194/spring13/lectures.html its a uni course that takes you through the basics to monads. all with reasources and assignments |
| 02:32:49 | <arkanoid> | sm: I've consumed project euler back in the days of my advanced programming classes. We used python metaprogramming and aspectj (java) |
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| 02:33:40 | <glguy> | If you're looking for exercises to learn on I thought the previous advent of code was pretty good https://adventofcode.com/2019 and it has a nice feature that year where half the problems built on the same "virtual machine" so you got a chance to reuse some code across problems |
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| 02:34:15 | <sm> | that is waay harder for a haskell beginner... |
| 02:35:07 | <glguy> | euler won't give you very much haskell learning opportunity and the advent of code problems aren't generally that hard |
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| 02:35:19 | <sm> | ha says you :) |
| 02:35:32 | <jeetelongname> | hackerrank would probably be a better fit. tho the templates are way to overcomplicated and its just easier to replace them |
| 02:35:39 | <glguy> | half the problems that year are stand-alone and the other half has some common code to share which I think it way better for learning than starting over every time |
| 02:35:59 | <arkanoid> | I like the exercism way to teach |
| 02:36:13 | <arkanoid> | it gives some context with test code and tools |
| 02:37:02 | <sm> | each at the proper tiem |
| 02:37:06 | <sm> | time |
| 02:37:17 | <jeetelongname> | I have a bone to pick with AOC. I swear it made my blood pressure rise a good couple of units just to try and solve the problem in one day |
| 02:37:34 | <arkanoid> | when I think adventofcode I feel like want use my main language |
| 02:37:44 | <sm> | clash of code teaches only certain small skills, but is fun |
| 02:38:59 | <jeetelongname> | AOC was meant to be my way of picking up a new language (ruby in this case (this was before I was enlightened go easy on me)) but I just got bogged down in the problems and didn't learn all to much |
| 02:39:00 | <sm> | exercism, project euler, advent of code, hackerrank, clash of code.. any notable others ? |
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| 02:39:41 | <arkanoid> | I just want to learn how to write more pure code in other imperative languages, and >>= there too |
| 02:40:12 | <keltono> | arkanoid: nice solution! one thing I would note is that you didn't need to define consumeWhile |
| 02:40:18 | <keltono> | @hoogle dropWhile |
| 02:40:18 | <lambdabot> | Prelude dropWhile :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> [a] |
| 02:40:18 | <lambdabot> | Data.List dropWhile :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> [a] |
| 02:40:18 | <lambdabot> | Data.List.NonEmpty dropWhile :: (a -> Bool) -> NonEmpty a -> [a] |
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| 02:40:30 | <sm> | didn't johann tibbell or someone make a learn-haskell-by-making-a-game thing ? |
| 02:41:54 | ← | jeetelongname parts (~jeet@host-89-241-98-229.as13285.net) (oh wow I need to sleep. Night!) |
| 02:43:20 | <sm> | can't find it |
| 02:43:21 | <arkanoid> | keltono: thanks! Actually I forgot to replace at the end (I reinvented the wheel before finding out dropWhile) |
| 02:45:04 | <arkanoid> | need some sleep now. It has been a pleasure to learn so many things in a short time. I swear I've skimmed Data.List, Data.String and Data.Char days ago, but once you get into the editor it's another story |
| 02:45:14 | <sm> | no Joachim Breitner. https://haskell-via-sokoban.nomeata.de |
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| 03:03:40 | <dsal> | arkanoid: AoC is usually super fun. Last year seemed strangely easy, but you get to make the problems harder if you want. e.g., I often made parser problems where there weren't any. |
| 03:03:44 | <dsal> | :t concatMap |
| 03:03:45 | <lambdabot> | Foldable t => (a -> [b]) -> t a -> [b] |
| 03:03:49 | <dsal> | :t foldMap |
| 03:03:50 | <lambdabot> | (Foldable t, Monoid m) => (a -> m) -> t a -> m |
| 03:04:47 | <dsal> | `wordAcronym [a] = [a | isUpper a]` is an interesting way to write that. |
| 03:06:28 | <dsal> | @src takeWhile |
| 03:06:29 | <lambdabot> | takeWhile _ [] = [] |
| 03:06:29 | <lambdabot> | takeWhile p (x:xs) | p x = x : takeWhile p xs |
| 03:06:29 | <lambdabot> | | otherwise = [] |
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| 09:12:05 | <raehik> | Why is ScopedTypeVariables not default when using TypeApplications? I never recognise the error message when you try to use a type variable not in scope |
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| 09:12:39 | <raehik> | few hours wasted due to a lang pragma that I somehow thought was default. gah |
| 09:13:22 | <Taneb> | I think TypeApplication is often very useful even without ScopedTypeVariables |
| 09:14:55 | <raehik> | I think I'm mostly just mad, the syntax ("types in the function!") made me think I could use type vars. even used explicit forall thinking that would help |
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| 09:39:48 | <jchia[m]> | Any reason to not always ScopedTypeVariables, though? It's one of my standard extensions to use. |
| 09:40:27 | <jchia[m]> | I just have it in a list of extensions I always enable whether or not the code actually uses it. |
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| 10:07:06 | <kuribas> | Why does GHC.Records have getField, but no setField? |
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| 10:08:43 | <maerwald> | https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/158 |
| 10:09:16 | <maerwald> | https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/16232 |
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| 10:16:34 | <arkanoid> | I'm probably solving the problem wrong, but is there a way to swap the arguments of a 2 arguments function (actually elem)? |
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| 10:18:09 | <raehik> | jchia[m]: yeah it's going in my standard list from now. I played with it before and hesitated, but I keep having to re-state constraints for helper functions etc, and now this heh |
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| 10:20:54 | <arkanoid> | oh, just found that "`elem` x" makes a partial on the second argument |
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| 10:39:44 | <ph88^> | how can i fix these linker errors ? https://bpa.st/FNPQ |
| 10:40:58 | <ph88^> | btw on first line at the end "4 files" etc, that can be ignored |
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| 10:43:34 | <ph88^> | "it was easy, and I was surprised" https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stack/issues/3420#issuecomment-481980763 |
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| 11:48:11 | <arkanoid> | now sure when I should use let and when I should use where |
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| 13:06:33 | <delYsid> | > flip elem [1,2,3] 2 |
| 13:06:35 | <lambdabot> | True |
| 13:06:43 | <delYsid> | arkanoid: ^ |
| 13:06:51 | <delYsid> | :t flip |
| 13:06:52 | <lambdabot> | (a -> b -> c) -> b -> a -> c |
| 13:07:01 | <arkanoid> | thanks! |
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| 13:07:54 | <delYsid> | and |
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| 13:08:05 | <delYsid> | > (`elem` [1,2,3]) 2 |
| 13:08:07 | <lambdabot> | True |
| 13:08:17 | <delYsid> | which you already discovered |
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| 13:38:11 | <arkanoid> | how to split a list every X elements? for example "foobarbaz" 3 would be ["foo", "bar", "baz"] |
| 13:39:52 | <dminuoso_> | Roll your own |
| 13:39:58 | <Clint> | arkanoid: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/split-0.2.3.4/docs/Data-List-Split.html |
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| 13:40:35 | <arkanoid> | chunksOf! |
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| 14:15:07 | <adamCS> | Boarders: sorry! Had to go. I don't know if there's cost to that vs. local. Performance of the various effect systems is extremely tricky and difficult to test in isolation. Though I think you can profile your own case if you think it's an issue. I' |
| 14:15:41 | <adamCS> | Boarders: I'm inclined to think it's unlikely to matter in most cases but I don't know how you are using it. |
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| 14:20:11 | <adamCS> | Boarders: As to your other question, you could catch everything and then rethrow a custom exception type which holds a copy of the environment. But catching everything is not usually what you want. Do you know what exception is being thrown that leads you to want to know about the local environment at that point? |
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| 14:28:26 | <Boarders> | adamCS: it is for a compiler architecture, you want to throw a compiler error but also for the purpose of error reporting to also get the local environment when that error was thrown |
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| 14:28:33 | <Boarders> | (e.g. so you can see variables in scope and other stuff) |
| 14:29:30 | <Boarders> | and I don't mean IO errors really here, just the Exception monad |
| 14:30:30 | <adamCS> | Boarders: Right. So then you could maybe do "ExceptT Reader"? |
| 14:30:53 | <adamCS> | Oh. Maybe not. |
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| 14:32:33 | <Boarders> | no, reader will not allow you to surface the env |
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| 14:32:50 | <Boarders> | my point was that you need state for that |
| 14:32:53 | <Boarders> | but it seems overkill |
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| 14:38:27 | <adamCS> | Boarders: Why doesn't it work to have a custom exception type which holds a copy of the env? Then you catch what you need to, get the env at that point, and rethrow your type with the copy of the env. |
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| 14:41:40 | <Boarders> | that is one option |
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| 15:01:14 | Nux | is now known as Nuxular |
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| 15:03:17 | <Nuxular> | I'm looking for a second opinion on this: https://github.com/reanimate/reanimate/discussions/210 |
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| 15:16:13 | <maerwald> | Nuxular: it's total nonsense (the unsafePerformIO) |
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| 15:16:35 | <maerwald> | there are several file operations involved, which can fail depending on platform, filesystem state etc |
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| 15:20:04 | <maerwald> | I replied |
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| 15:21:03 | <Nuxular> | yeah thanks |
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| 15:42:25 | <viluon> | so my HLS is looking for GHC 8.11... Anyone had this issue? |
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| 15:43:01 | <viluon> | https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/tPLlznpu/stack-output |
| 15:43:34 | <viluon> | ^ output of `stack exec ghc -- --numeric-version`, HLS invokes that but with `--silent` |
| 15:43:51 | <viluon> | (this is in VS code, if that makes a difference) |
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| 15:44:39 | <c_wraith> | X.odd versions of GHC are development versions. somehow you've told stack that you want to use a development version of GHC. |
| 15:45:15 | <c_wraith> | That's also a really old development version |
| 15:45:25 | <c_wraith> | That branch was later renamed 9.0 for release |
| 15:46:27 | bsima1 | is now known as bsima |
| 15:46:34 | <viluon> | c_wraith: thanks! The project I'm trying to work with is here https://github.com/grin-compiler/ghc-whole-program-compiler-project/tree/master/external-stg-interpreter |
| 15:47:42 | <viluon> | judging by the resolver, shouldn't it be asking for 8.8.4 instead? I don't see what could change the desired GHC version like this |
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| 15:48:20 | <viluon> | it seems that the issue is with my local config though, the project builds in my terminal but not in the VS Code terminal |
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| 15:49:14 | <c_wraith> | Hmm. Maybe VS Code isn't running it from the right current directory somehow? |
| 15:49:16 | <viluon> | oh, I think I know what's wrong. I opened the root project's folder, and HLS is trying to work from there |
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| 15:49:26 | <viluon> | yep, current dir issue as you suspected |
| 15:49:28 | <viluon> | thank you c_wraith ! |
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| 15:57:33 | <maerwald> | Nuxular: I'd not use any library from that maintainer tbh |
| 15:57:41 | <maerwald> | that's a pretty awful position |
| 15:57:56 | <maerwald> | you can't trust any of the API if that's how they understand haskell |
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| 15:58:45 | <maerwald> | if you must though, look at `evaluate` and `force`, which allows you to force the exceptions |
| 15:59:43 | <maerwald> | I'm literally creeped out |
| 15:59:53 | <maerwald> | I hope this isn't common on hackage |
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| 16:06:03 | <dsal> | I just read that bug. That's really weird. |
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| 16:08:45 | <EvanR> | yep... the operation is literally doing I/O so really needs IO xD |
| 16:08:59 | <maerwald> | but it returns the same filepath IF there is no error |
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| 16:10:01 | <maerwald> | whether that filepath points to anything is another story |
| 16:10:17 | <EvanR> | getting the filepath out can't be the main point here xD |
| 16:10:28 | <maerwald> | lol |
| 16:11:02 | <EvanR> | someone submit a pull request that updates the developer |
| 16:11:30 | <maerwald> | why not have: svgAsPng :: SVG -> L.ByteString |
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| 16:11:35 | <maerwald> | and then let the user deal with files |
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| 16:12:17 | <maerwald> | clearly, I want to do my own file handling code in light of these revelations |
| 16:14:11 | <maerwald> | this made me angry, I'll go for a walk, lol |
| 16:14:27 | <Nuxular> | maerwald: Ha sorry about that |
| 16:14:41 | <EvanR> | is the whole API like this or |
| 16:14:50 | <Nuxular> | I found out about this package from a 3blue1brown video: https://youtu.be/ojjzXyQCzso?t=1157 |
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| 16:15:18 | <maerwald> | I mean, the rest of the codebase doesn't look like it's written by a newbie, so that makes me double confused |
| 16:15:39 | <Nuxular> | I'm thinking I might use diagrams instead for what I'm trying to do |
| 16:15:51 | <maerwald> | and whether this is something I have to audit my libraries for |
| 16:16:59 | <maerwald> | I'd go so far to say that may be a reason to flag a package on hackage for removal :p |
| 16:19:12 | <EvanR> | hold on a sec while I set up a torches and pitchforks sales page |
| 16:19:34 | <maerwald> | Nuxular: I spent the entire day working out file system operation issues on windows, carefully checking exception types, testing on different conditions, carefully handling corner cases etc etc. And now this. |
| 16:19:45 | <maerwald> | :D |
| 16:19:48 | <Nuxular> | :D |
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| 16:22:15 | <EvanR> | it does raise some philosophical issues, like, what are the semantics of IO. I find it odd we are dwelling on how likely it is it returns the same value for a given input |
| 16:22:49 | <EvanR> | or, what's purity |
| 16:23:06 | <glguy> | maerwald: putStrLn :: String -> () |
| 16:23:15 | <glguy> | I mean, it always returns (), why bother with the IO? |
| 16:24:37 | <dminuoso> | maerwald: Did you want to go out for a walk? |
| 16:24:40 | <dminuoso> | :-) |
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| 16:39:40 | <Nuxular> | EvanR: I wasn't so concerned with philosophical implications as much as knowing what the compiler is going to decide to do if it thinks that value is pure. |
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| 16:40:34 | <Nuxular> | I'm not familiar with force and evaluate so I'll look into those thanks |
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| 16:41:09 | <Nuxular> | (though I still think I'm going to just use a different package) |
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| 16:44:25 | <EvanR> | that's a shame this package seems cool |
| 16:45:08 | <nshepperd> | this presents an obvious performance optimisation: just return the file path without doing all that expensive I/O. the denotational semantics are the same but now it's way faster |
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| 16:50:06 | <c_wraith> | Also, the assertion is false |
| 16:50:17 | <c_wraith> | That function depends on the current directory |
| 16:50:23 | <c_wraith> | you can change that at runtmie |
| 16:50:31 | <c_wraith> | or runtime, if you like spelling accurately |
| 16:51:07 | <c_wraith> | Oh, I guess it's less clear than that |
| 16:52:24 | <c_wraith> | Ok, it depends on the XDG environment variables. those aren't likely to change at run time, but can change between runs of the program |
| 16:52:25 | <shapr> | run TMI, the new post mortem group? |
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| 16:55:02 | <c_wraith> | can you alter the current process's environment variables at runtime? |
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| 16:56:41 | <yo> | Hi guys, I'm new to Haskell, I tried writing recursive nth Fibonacci number function, but it seems to run too slow, even slower than slowest languages out there. |
| 16:56:53 | <davean> | maerwald: That is the most egregious issue I've ever seen in Haskell |
| 16:56:55 | <c_wraith> | hey... https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.15.0.0/docs/System-Environment.html#v:setEnv |
| 16:57:08 | <c_wraith> | congratulations, the function doesn't even always return the same thing! |
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| 16:57:33 | <c_wraith> | so the defense is just factually incorrect |
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| 16:58:16 | <yo> | https://pastebin.com/4FfCZTDA that's how I wrote it |
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| 16:58:38 | <Nuxular> | EvanR: It seems cool to me too and I appreciate the effort they've put into creating it despite it's misguided notion of purity. |
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| 16:58:57 | <Nuxular> | Nobody would bat an eyelid if it were written most other languages out there |
| 16:59:17 | <c_wraith> | yo: well, it is an exponential-time algorithm. if you're running it in ghci... well, ghci isn't known for trying to be fast. |
| 16:59:35 | <c_wraith> | yo: but even if you compiled it, it's *still* exponential time |
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| 17:00:12 | <yo> | fib 41 is taking three seconds in Julia, and over 5 mins in ghci |
| 17:00:25 | <yo> | maybe I should compile it and check |
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| 17:01:50 | <c_wraith> | I don't think any current hardware will run that algorithm in 3 seconds on 41 as the input. |
| 17:02:14 | <c_wraith> | hmm. Maybe that's right on the edge of possible |
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| 17:05:11 | <davean> | ooh thats a very lazy definition |
| 17:05:57 | <davean> | Yah, you either want to be more eager, or optimize that |
| 17:06:09 | <davean> | I'm a little shocked that didn't blow out stack |
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| 17:08:38 | <davean> | yo: That definition can't possibly run in a sane time on any computer currently existing. |
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| 17:10:54 | <davean> | yo: your julia definition must be semanticly different. |
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| 17:12:28 | <c_wraith> | Eh, I think it's possible for a modern CPU to advance a counter F(41) times in 3 seconds. |
| 17:12:39 | <c_wraith> | If you remove all the function call overhead somehow |
| 17:13:08 | <c_wraith> | Because any other algorithm should be *way* faster than 3 seconds. |
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| 17:16:10 | <c_wraith> | davean: why would it blow out the stack? the maximum depth is 41 |
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| 17:16:56 | <davean> | c_wraith: walking the adds - and infact it does for me |
| 17:17:10 | <c_wraith> | the adds should mirror the recursive structure |
| 17:17:17 | <int-e> | laziness is a wonderful thing |
| 17:17:21 | <davean> | test.hs: stack overflow |
| 17:17:30 | <davean> | So that preduction is correct for me |
| 17:17:34 | <[exa]> | yorick: mind sharing the julia version? (/me curious) |
| 17:17:47 | <[exa]> | (ah yo left, sorry for hilite) |
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| 17:20:18 | <davean> | c_wraith: so note the error with the precident in the recursive calls to fib |
| 17:20:22 | <int-e> | uh ... fib n-1 |
| 17:20:33 | <c_wraith> | *oh*. that's the problem. |
| 17:20:40 | <davean> | I was trying to call it out subtily so they'd notice |
| 17:20:59 | <davean> | I didn't just want to give the answer away, but apparently they left |
| 17:21:08 | <int-e> | c_wraith: Right. I couldn't poke any hole in your argument so I decided to look at the actual code :P |
| 17:21:10 | <c_wraith> | I was trying to figure out what int-e was talking about, as laziness is irrelevant to the stack use depth there |
| 17:21:39 | <davean> | Yah I said a few things, that looked closer |
| 17:21:43 | <davean> | *then |
| 17:21:57 | <davean> | And changed my covnersation |
| 17:22:00 | <c_wraith> | so yeah, *that* algorithm can't finish in finite time on any processor :) |
| 17:22:14 | <int-e> | it works for two values of n ;) |
| 17:22:29 | <c_wraith> | but we were assuming 41! |
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| 17:23:35 | <davean> | Once you fix it, making it stricted DOES speed it up, as does optimization, I spotted the structure before I parsed it fully. It runs under 1 second when minorly fixed |
| 17:24:43 | <int-e> | let f 0 = id; f 1 = (+1); f n = f (n-1) . f (n-2) in f 40 0 --> *** Exception: stack overflow |
| 17:24:46 | <int-e> | ;-) |
| 17:25:01 | <int-e> | (if you try hard enough...) |
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| 17:30:27 | <arkanoid> | is "where" block to be considered as a container for private functions? |
| 17:32:02 | <glguy> | private definitions in general, not necessarily functions |
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| 17:36:34 | <dsal> | where and let are interchangeable a lot of the time, but where is a bit nicer when they're roughly equivalent. Sometimes you have to use let. |
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| 17:51:03 | <sm> | I wish to use small where blocks in the middle of a function all the time - eg at end of a line - but this is never allowed, right ? |
| 17:51:48 | <sm> | or where is it allowed ? Have been confused about this a long time |
| 17:52:02 | <__monty__> | sm: Only at the end of a definition IIRC. |
| 17:52:12 | <Clint> | gotta use let instead |
| 17:52:17 | <sm> | thanks, that's what I thought |
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| 17:56:11 | <dsal> | Sometimes I put where clauses in my where clauses just so I can yo dawg. |
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| 18:04:50 | <sm> | I do that a lot, makes it easier to extract sub functions |
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| 18:57:04 | <maerwald> | sm: where clauses are a little bit like nested if-then-else in imperative languages. The scope becomes too wide |
| 18:57:11 | <dminuoso> | sm: You could always insert a stub `case () of ... where` :-P |
| 18:57:13 | <maerwald> | but I also like them |
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| 18:57:54 | <maerwald> | I'd like where-clauses with functions that don't have access to the top-level parameters... |
| 18:58:42 | <maerwald> | like: this is a set of "private" functions that I need here |
| 18:58:53 | <maerwald> | and I can be sure that no scope leaks in |
| 18:58:58 | <maerwald> | no-scoped |
| 18:59:00 | <maerwald> | lol |
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| 19:02:01 | <zzz> | are tyoe declarations curried? |
| 19:02:20 | <zzz> | let me rephrase that |
| 19:02:32 | <zzz> | are type synonym declarations curried? |
| 19:03:00 | <crazazy> | zzz: they are |
| 19:03:30 | <ph88^> | anyone know how i can fix these linker errors ? https://bpa.st/FNPQ |
| 19:03:33 | <zzz> | so type Grid = M.Map (Int,Int) === type Grid a = M.Map (Int,Int) a |
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| 19:04:44 | <Morrow_> | I thought type synonyms had to be fully saturated? |
| 19:05:32 | <h98> | think Grid just has kind * -> ... in both cases |
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| 19:06:39 | <Morrow_> | Yes but in the second case I can't write class C Grid where ... while in the first case I can. |
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| 19:06:47 | <tomsmeding> | Morrow_: when _applying_ a type synonym, you hvae to pass all parameters |
| 19:06:57 | <tomsmeding> | all parameters of the type synonym, that is |
| 19:07:02 | <nshepperd> | they're not exactly equivalent. the eta expanded one can not be used in f Grid |
| 19:07:21 | <tomsmeding> | doesn't mean that the type synonym itself can't be "curried", i.e. not be of kind * |
| 19:08:31 | <tomsmeding> | so yeah zzz: if you use the 'type Grid a' version, you'll always have to give that argument to Grid; with the first version, you can just use 'Grid' by itself |
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| 19:47:08 | <arkanoid> | general question: why is haskell platfom so large on disk? |
| 19:47:32 | <arkanoid> | stack shows me ~2GB for each installed version |
| 19:47:43 | <arkanoid> | that's not a problem, just a curiosity |
| 19:48:23 | <maerwald> | yes, a single GHC installation is around 2gb |
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| 19:52:58 | <arkanoid> | but why that big? docs are ~ 300MB |
| 19:53:56 | <arkanoid> | the libs are incredibly large compared to any other programming environment |
| 19:55:30 | <h98> | https://stackoverflow.com/questions/48756089/why-is-a-fresh-install-of-haskell-stack-and-ghc-so-large-big |
| 19:57:01 | <h98> | from what I understood from several of these posts, the answer was "static linking + duplication" |
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| 19:58:38 | <dsal> | Making tiny files isn't a priority. |
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| 20:13:30 | <Hecate> | hai |
| 20:13:35 | <Hecate> | I haz trouble with megaparsec :< |
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| 20:13:50 | <Hecate> | https://gist.github.com/Kleidukos/8acc9eb159f2e65f7c9250e73e1e8bb9 <- I want to parse this SQL file according to the type I define in the parser just below |
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| 20:14:35 | <Hecate> | and while I can properly use line-based parsers, I have trouble expressing "Just pick that chunk of text spanning multiple lines that end either with the next section or end of the file |
| 20:14:39 | <dminuoso> | arkanoid: At least the libraries in GHC itself come in all 4 flavors static, dynamic, profiled and GHCi. Since GHC itself is a library too, this quickly racks up space. |
| 20:15:23 | <dminuoso> | Though, I think GHC uses dynamic linking nowadays? |
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| 20:16:05 | <yushyin> | ldd =ghc |
| 20:16:07 | <yushyin> | not a dynamic executable |
| 20:16:27 | <yushyin> | ^^ |
| 20:16:31 | <yushyin> | :) |
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| 20:16:56 | <Hecate> | yushyin: tssss |
| 20:17:34 | <dminuoso> | Ah, so that means in addition to those 4 GHC library versions, we have a the static binary of it lying around too. |
| 20:17:38 | <dminuoso> | So much space.. |
| 20:21:13 | <Hecate> | if anyone knows a bit about parser combinators, this would be really helpful :P |
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| 20:22:19 | <dminuoso> | Hecate: Take a BNF grammar for your sql flavour, turn it into right recursive if need be, and then directly translate into megaparsec? |
| 20:23:18 | <yushyin> | dminuoso: oh, looks like i don't know my own ghc installation well enough. behind =ghc there is only a shell script, the real executable is actually dynamically linked |
| 20:23:32 | <dminuoso> | yushyin: Heh. :) |
| 20:23:37 | <dminuoso> | yushyin: Are you on nixos? |
| 20:24:09 | <yushyin> | no, it's from ghcup |
| 20:24:31 | <dminuoso> | Ah. Is that ghc shell script what ghcup modifies? |
| 20:24:36 | <maerwald> | no |
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| 20:25:56 | <dminuoso> | Hecate: Or, maybe I misread your question. Your mistake is not using `lexeme` at all. :) |
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| 20:28:38 | <yushyin> | dminuoso: https://paste.xinu.at/DtO7w7/ is the shell script :) in $PATH |
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| 20:28:52 | <maerwald> | yushyin: no |
| 20:29:00 | <maerwald> | in PATH is only a symlink |
| 20:29:08 | <maerwald> | that shell script is from GHC itself |
| 20:29:21 | <yushyin> | well yes, i resolved the symlink |
| 20:32:06 | <yushyin> | the point was that my attempt to run ldd on a shell script is rather useless :D |
| 20:32:22 | <maerwald> | it would work on windows |
| 20:32:27 | <maerwald> | try installing windows |
| 20:32:29 | <maerwald> | xD |
| 20:32:59 | <arkanoid> | thanks for the explanations. If it's all statically linked, I now understand how thinks stacks up to 2GB :D |
| 20:33:32 | <maerwald> | on windows those are not shell scripts but .exe files |
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| 20:33:57 | <maerwald> | and they are perfectly relocatable |
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| 20:34:27 | <maerwald> | everyone should use windows these days |
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| 20:37:34 | <zzz> | tomsmeding: i found this out because i wanted a Foldable instance and i needed a * -> *. I don't really know what I'm doing, just found out i nedded TypeSynonymInstances and FlexibleInstances |
| 20:38:11 | <zzz> | for overleading toList |
| 20:39:22 | <zzz> | i usually avoid extensions |
| 20:39:46 | <tomsmeding> | zzz: TypeSynonymInstances for, well, making an instance for a type synonym (which is exactly equivalent to making an instance for the type that the synonym rewrites to) |
| 20:40:14 | <tomsmeding> | FlexibleInstances for making an instance for 'Map k' where 'k' is not a type variable but a more specific type |
| 20:40:29 | <tomsmeding> | those extensions are very benign as far as I understand |
| 20:40:46 | <tomsmeding> | if you want to avoid using extensions here, use a newtype instead of a type synonym |
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| 20:43:03 | <zzz> | tomsmeding: maybe i should. i would need GeneralizedNewtypeDeriving |
| 20:43:13 | <zzz> | though |
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| 20:44:08 | <zzz> | i think |
| 20:44:18 | <tomsmeding> | that's true, using a newtype forces you to re-implement the API of the wrapped type, including instances (for which GeneralizedNewtypeDeriving is a shortcut) |
| 20:44:56 | <tomsmeding> | though you can also use DerivingVia instead of GeneralizedNewtypeDeriving |
| 20:45:34 | <zzz> | looking into it |
| 20:45:37 | <tomsmeding> | newtype Grid = Grid (M.Map (Int,Int)) deriving (Functor, Foldable) via (M.Map (Int,Int)) |
| 20:45:49 | <tomsmeding> | which is a bit more explicit, if you like that |
| 20:45:53 | <tomsmeding> | https://ghc.gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/doc/users_guide/exts/deriving_via.html?highlight=derivingvia |
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| 20:49:49 | <zzz> | thanks |
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| 20:53:39 | <dsal> | Hecate: lexeme runs a parser and then throws away any whitespace after it, so the next parser is ready to run with. |
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All times are in UTC on 2021-07-22.