Logs on 2021-07-30 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:07:02 | <Axman6> | I've been working on translating a python project which makes heavy use of the new types stuff into Haskell, and once you understand what the translation is, it's been fairly mechanical. I should get back to that |
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| 01:05:18 | <lechner> | Hi, is it possible to use Aeson's omitNothingFields in this example without a parameterized type? Thanks! https://hackage.haskell.org/package/aeson-1.5.6.0/docs/Data-Aeson.html#v:omitNothingFields |
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| 01:07:11 | <Axman6> | lechner: I'm not sure what you mean |
| 01:08:47 | <lechner> | i think i have an import problem: ‘toJSON’ is not a (visible) method of class ‘ToJSON’ |
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| 01:09:56 | <Axman6> | did you import Data.Aeson (ToJSON(..))? |
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| 01:32:06 | <lechner> | Axman6: thanks! I forgot the brackets |
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| 01:32:43 | <lechner> | also, is it possible to generate pretty, canonical JSON? |
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| 01:39:08 | <c_wraith> | um. what does "canonical" mean in this context? |
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| 01:39:23 | <lechner> | sorted by field name |
| 01:39:34 | <c_wraith> | I've never seen a spec say that's canonical |
| 01:40:09 | <lechner> | c_wraith: https://metacpan.org/pod/JSON#canonical |
| 01:40:41 | <c_wraith> | CPAN isn't a JSON spec |
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| 01:41:31 | <lechner> | is there another way? we commit some JSON to Git. maybe there is an external program |
| 01:42:14 | <euouae> | it's the same data, why does it matter? |
| 01:42:22 | <euouae> | If you want it sorted, then you can sort it |
| 01:42:35 | <lechner> | how? |
| 01:43:12 | <euouae> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/aeson-1.5.6.0/docs/Data-Aeson.html#g:3 |
| 01:43:24 | <euouae> | Apply a tree transformation |
| 01:44:08 | <lechner> | actually, there is https://hackage.haskell.org/package/canonical-json |
| 01:45:28 | <lechner> | although Decoding/encoding Unicode code-points beyond U+00ff is currently broken |
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| 01:46:13 | <euouae> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/canonical-json-0.6.0.0/docs/src/Text.JSON.Canonical.Parse.html#renderCanonicalJSON |
| 01:46:22 | <euouae> | You can see they're just using a tree transformation that sorts it |
| 01:47:37 | <euouae> | Looks like the canonical-json package should be avoided |
| 01:47:52 | <lechner> | yeah |
| 01:48:13 | <euouae> | just sort the tree yourself and rely on aeson for printing |
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| 01:52:32 | <euouae> | What does forall s. mean? In a signature |
| 01:52:56 | <euouae> | For example, https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.15.0.0/docs/Control-Monad-ST-Safe.html#v:runST |
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| 01:53:47 | <EvanR> | in that case it's how you use rankN types, in this case rank 2. The argument type is itself a polymorphic function type |
| 01:54:04 | <c_wraith> | It's a polymorphic value, not a function. :P |
| 01:54:14 | <EvanR> | shoot i was going by memory xD |
| 01:54:14 | <lechner> | euouae: how about pretty? |
| 01:54:46 | <euouae> | I'm not following |
| 01:54:52 | <EvanR> | yeah I'm lost now. |
| 01:55:00 | <euouae> | lechner: What about pretty? |
| 01:55:02 | <c_wraith> | euouae: it literally means "for all s". It's the consequences of that which get interesting. |
| 01:55:16 | <lechner> | euouae: sorry, pretty JSON |
| 01:55:21 | <euouae> | c_wraith: but 'a' means for any. So... ? |
| 01:55:33 | <euouae> | lechner: I don't know what that means, explain please? |
| 01:55:36 | <c_wraith> | euouae: the interesting thing there is that it's inside the parenthesis |
| 01:56:06 | <euouae> | c_wraith: so it's (for all s. ST s) a ? |
| 01:56:07 | <EvanR> | the letter itself doesn't matter, it's just a name |
| 01:56:09 | <c_wraith> | euouae: more explicitly, the type of runST is forall a. (forall s. ST s a) -> a |
| 01:56:55 | <c_wraith> | euouae: since it's in the parenthesis, the scope of the polymorphism is constrained. The argument to the function must be polymorphic over all s, no matter what choice is made for a |
| 01:56:55 | <lechner> | euouae: formatted for human consumption, for example https://metacpan.org/pod/JSON#pretty |
| 01:57:31 | <euouae> | c_wraith: Ok, thus it is 'private'. Kinda like being unable to have a general arrow a->b |
| 01:58:17 | <c_wraith> | euouae: in a sense. It means the choice of s is unknown to the caller, so they must provide a value that will work with any s |
| 02:00:21 | <c_wraith> | > let foo :: (forall n. Num n => n -> n) -> (Int, Double) ; foo f = (f 1, f 3.2) in foo (+1) -- a slightly more obvious use case |
| 02:00:23 | <lambdabot> | (2,4.2) |
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| 02:01:15 | <c_wraith> | euouae: That's a simple example of requiring the function being passed in to work with any instance of Num, so that it can be used at two different types in the body |
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| 02:01:46 | <euouae> | nice |
| 02:01:50 | <euouae> | wait, is that valid Haskell? |
| 02:02:01 | <c_wraith> | it is if you add the RankNTypes extension |
| 02:02:48 | <euouae> | why is it called rank N types? |
| 02:03:14 | <c_wraith> | The rank of a type is (in rough terms) how nested the foralls in it are |
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| 02:03:31 | <c_wraith> | Without that extension, all foralls are implicit and at the top level - rank 1 |
| 02:03:45 | <c_wraith> | That extension allows you to nest them arbitrarily deep |
| 02:04:10 | <euouae> | using the forall word? |
| 02:04:18 | <c_wraith> | yeah |
| 02:04:38 | <euouae> | seems like there's different kinds of 'type N' types |
| 02:04:42 | <euouae> | sorry, rank N |
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| 02:05:47 | <c_wraith> | hmm. you can divide them up a bunch of different ways, but I don't think that's what you mean. Are you making a comparison to higher-kinded types? |
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| 02:06:46 | <euouae> | forall a -> (forall b -> (forall c -> d)) and a -> (forall b -> (forall c -> forall d)) ? |
| 02:06:52 | <euouae> | Are not these both rank 2? |
| 02:07:07 | <euouae> | Ugh, are these not both rank 2? I'm way too tired |
| 02:08:50 | <c_wraith> | you mean forall a. a -> (forall b. b -> (forall c. c -> d)), and such with the other? |
| 02:09:01 | <euouae> | yeah |
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| 02:09:48 | <euouae> | ok well take a rank 2 type X and form a -> b -> X and a -> X -> b. Seems like both are still rank 2 |
| 02:09:51 | <c_wraith> | Those are higher-rank, but not meaningfully so. They can be rewritten to not nest the foralls, with no loss of generality |
| 02:10:13 | <c_wraith> | It's on the argument side that it gets more interesting |
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| 02:11:20 | <euouae> | lechner: There's https://hackage.haskell.org/package/aeson-pretty-0.8.8/docs/Data-Aeson-Encode-Pretty.html |
| 02:11:38 | <euouae> | There's also https://hackage.haskell.org/package/aeson-pretty |
| 02:12:43 | <c_wraith> | I honestly have trouble thinking of a practical rank-3 type. I know some people have managed them, but I've always been able to do what I want with rank-2 |
| 02:13:08 | <c_wraith> | Probably means I don't want things that are hard enough in that direction :) |
| 02:13:10 | <euouae> | Hey I'm having trouble with the State stuff as it is :) |
| 02:13:51 | <c_wraith> | anyway, the way runST uses it is a little bit indirect. But the reason for it is to prevent leaking STRef values between uses of runST |
| 02:14:06 | <euouae> | why is that important? |
| 02:14:15 | <c_wraith> | When that leaking is prevented, it's possible to prove that the results of runST are deterministic |
| 02:14:35 | <euouae> | ah okay, nice |
| 02:14:45 | <euouae> | That is a good trick |
| 02:14:51 | <c_wraith> | Therefore no matter how much mutability you use inside, runST doesn't impose an IO restriction or anything |
| 02:15:02 | <euouae> | I would never come up with it |
| 02:15:32 | <c_wraith> | But once you know about it, you can find your own uses - you create things in certain contexts and want to prevent them from leaking to other contexts? the ST trick does the job! |
| 02:16:03 | <euouae> | So for example a type with private info that you don't want leaked |
| 02:16:22 | <euouae> | such as when you're logging your apps actions and you don't want to log user credentials |
| 02:16:59 | <euouae> | is that anywhere close to what it is? I'm trying to get a feel fo rit |
| 02:17:11 | <c_wraith> | You can do stuff like that, though you need to watch out for it making types more complex than pay for themselves |
| 02:17:53 | <euouae> | Ok in this context it would be some form of type correctness for security, it might be a worthwhile tradeoff |
| 02:18:44 | <lechner> | euouae: thanks! |
| 02:19:14 | <euouae> | You're welcome :) |
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| 02:24:37 | <euouae> | c_wraith: Thank you :) |
| 02:24:51 | <c_wraith> | you're welcome |
| 02:25:10 | <euouae> | I feel like my place in the Haskell world would be to write some FFI for C |
| 02:25:14 | <euouae> | or C++ |
| 02:25:38 | <euouae> | It would be fun to translate and redesign some APIs |
| 02:26:25 | <euouae> | but maybe another day... too many things left hanging :) |
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| 02:31:13 | <ext0l> | i'm a nixos user trying to set up a new haskell project. what's the current best practice? haskell.nix, cabal2nix, or? i'd like something with relatively little extra verbosity. |
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| 02:34:06 | <ext0l> | or just ignore all that and use the new-foo commands, i guess? |
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| 02:38:00 | <dsal> | "the current best practice" is fighting words. :) |
| 02:38:11 | <dsal> | I still use stack for most development + haskell.nix |
| 02:40:08 | <ext0l> | haha |
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| 02:40:36 | <drakonis> | itc: nix users |
| 02:41:04 | <ext0l> | haskell.nix seems nice; is it in common use? it seems to come up less than the other options i saw |
| 02:43:33 | <dsal> | I don't know how to judge common. I have several projects using it, so it's common among my projects. |
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| 02:43:59 | <ext0l> | fair enough |
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| 02:44:20 | <dsal> | It gets updated once per day with all the latest things, so it's at least maintainedish. |
| 02:45:19 | <dsal> | I mostly do stack for the least effort for spinning up a project. 'stack new x' gives me my defaults with my test suite ready to go so I can just `stack test --file-watch` and get moving. |
| 02:45:53 | <ext0l> | yeah, that does seem really nice |
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| 02:47:20 | <dsal> | Many folks make good arguments for why modern cabal itself is better, but I've still not successfully moved a project to plain cabal. |
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| 02:50:57 | <lechner> | being a beginner, i came here for the past half year and started with stack. a month ago someone said to use just cabal, and i never looked back. i am on debian bullseye |
| 02:55:29 | <ext0l> | i'm going to try stack --nix, and if that doesn't work well for me i'll go from there |
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| 02:58:10 | <dsal> | I just have `nix:\n enable: true` in ~/.stack/config.yaml |
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| 03:01:05 | <ext0l> | yeah that |
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| 03:03:56 | <dsal> | The one annoying thing is every stack.yaml needs `nix:\n packages: [ zlib ]` |
| 03:04:07 | <ext0l> | oh really? weird |
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| 03:04:31 | <dsal> | It's hard to build anything that doesn't eventually use zlib, and it's not in the build shell. |
| 03:04:50 | <ext0l> | aaah |
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| 03:11:15 | <lechner> | Hi, what's this, please? file descriptor 1024 out of range for select (0--1024). Recompile with -threaded to work around this. haskell |
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| 03:13:23 | <c_wraith> | you opened a lot of files |
| 03:13:41 | <c_wraith> | honestly, that error message seems to say everything relevant |
| 03:13:51 | <c_wraith> | what part of it is unfamiliar? |
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| 03:17:42 | <lechner> | it's a socket-based worker that does not open or write any files https://dpaste.org/Rte0 |
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| 03:17:52 | <c_wraith> | sockets still use file descriptors |
| 03:19:35 | <c_wraith> | select is a system call that waits for activity on any* number of file descriptors, then tells you which one had activity. *except there's a max it can wait for, and it seems to be 1024 on your system |
| 03:20:10 | <c_wraith> | if you compile with the -threaded option, ghc will link against a different runtime that doesn't use the select system call |
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| 03:21:37 | <lechner> | i think the ZeroMQ sockets, which I am trying to close and reopen following a recommendation from upstream, are not getting closed even thoug i used their code example. i'll have to investigate. thanks! |
| 03:22:34 | <dsal> | lechner: One thing that's unrelated this problem that you may want to consider is that you pretty much don't ever want to call `error` |
| 03:23:37 | <dsal> | Oh. I don't think you are, you just name something error. That was confusing. :) |
| 03:23:47 | <lechner> | yeah |
| 03:23:57 | <lechner> | i was looking for the word |
| 03:24:07 | <lechner> | it's not a variable, is it? |
| 03:24:50 | <dsal> | :t error |
| 03:24:50 | <lechner> | it used to be 'e' but i write out most words |
| 03:24:51 | <lambdabot> | [Char] -> a |
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| 03:25:10 | <lechner> | no i meant my use |
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| 03:25:23 | <lechner> | an 'immutable'? |
| 03:25:30 | <dsal> | Sure. You're just shadowing it. |
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| 03:25:46 | <lechner> | because it's in Prelude? |
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| 03:26:27 | <dsal> | Yeah. |
| 03:27:22 | <lechner> | i'll try to avoid that. thanks for the hint. do not know so much yet |
| 03:27:26 | <dsal> | This code is a lot taller than I'm used to. Some of the wrapping is a bit weird as well. e.g., this is kind of confusing. https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/pkcD1BAp/Screen%20Shot%202021-07-29%20at%2020.27.03.png |
| 03:27:54 | <dsal> | I don't see people putting long names on variables that much. `e` is fine. Not naming it is even better. |
| 03:28:17 | <lechner> | how? |
| 03:29:30 | <lechner> | the formatting is from brittany, which did something about the long lines |
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| 03:30:25 | <dsal> | Something like this: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/HvYTa6jj/thing.hs |
| 03:30:42 | <lechner> | i think the underscores are weird. they come from the JSON |
| 03:30:52 | <dsal> | I've never seen anything formatted with that. It likes really tall code for some reason. |
| 03:31:22 | <dsal> | I missed some parens there, but something like that |
| 03:31:23 | <dsal> | :t either |
| 03:31:24 | <lambdabot> | (a -> c) -> (b -> c) -> Either a b -> c |
| 03:31:32 | <lechner> | i didn't think it was as bad as ormulo |
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| 03:32:15 | <dsal> | (also, you don't need `do` there -- I just left out the `ExitSuccess -> ` bit part. |
| 03:32:18 | <dsal> | ) |
| 03:32:42 | <lechner> | yeah. well my code stinks a little. i have to brush someone's teeth. brb |
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| 03:33:43 | <dsal> | It looks like you're establishing a connection in each iteration of the loop and then just like, keeping it open. |
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| 03:35:49 | <dsal> | :t bracket -- lechner |
| 03:35:50 | <lambdabot> | IO a -> (a -> IO b) -> (a -> IO c) -> IO c |
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| 03:40:04 | <dsal> | Actually, this API is super weird. You'd need to make your own `withConnection` thing possibly with `bracket` but their API is weird. |
| 03:40:22 | <dsal> | Normally you'd do something like `bracket (open something) close $ \conn -> do stuff with conn` |
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| 03:51:00 | <dsal> | I don't know zeromq all, but I'm going to guess each one of these `connect` calls is eating a file descriptor and you never free it. It's a good thing you ran out of file descriptors as it made it easier to catch this bug earlier. |
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| 03:51:51 | <lechner> | the ZeroMQ stuff is from here: https://zguide.zeromq.org/docs/chapter1/ |
| 03:52:06 | <lechner> | hw client in haskell |
| 03:52:41 | <lechner> | although in all fairness i moved the 'connect' inside the loop |
| 03:53:34 | <dsal> | It claims to have a finalizer on the socket but like, that's not the right way to do that kind of thing. |
| 03:54:33 | <lechner> | in chapter 4 they recommend cosing and reopening. i am eventually trying to get to the Laz Pirate pattern (which they say does that) but i did not understand it in haskell https://zguide.zeromq.org/docs/chapter4/ |
| 03:55:25 | <lechner> | there are several zmq libraries but i think the FFI bindings are pretty much preferred everywhere now |
| 03:56:08 | <dsal> | That code seems to be reopening on failure and just completely ignoring the previously opened connection hoping the finalizer will eventually figure it out. |
| 03:56:40 | <lechner> | yeah that's why i thought it was okay |
| 03:57:59 | <dsal> | You should generally close things you open. I don't know as much about how finalizers work in haskell, but bracketing is generally the right thing to do. |
| 03:58:26 | <lechner> | it's actually a great socket system, beating out AMQP in many places (like CERN), but the inventor died |
| 03:59:16 | <lechner> | i know even less about finalizers |
| 03:59:34 | <dsal> | I've never tried it. Most of the things I do that are anything like this are using MQTT. |
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| 04:09:49 | <dsal> | This doc is pretty nice, though. |
| 04:11:15 | <lechner> | try it. sometimes you just need a better socket. |
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| 04:13:14 | <monochrom> | Finalizers are run at GC time only. |
| 04:13:46 | <monochrom> | Unfortunately the threaded RTS is so nice to, when it detects idleness, run GC. |
| 04:14:17 | <monochrom> | This has encouraged very reckless habits of ignoring to close anything and then complaining that the unthreaded RTS leaks. |
| 04:14:29 | <monochrom> | s/ignoring/neglecting/ |
| 04:15:34 | <lechner> | i think i saw some of those bug reports |
| 04:15:44 | <monochrom> | Humans take the path of least resistance. Programmers take it to the next level, path of least understanding. |
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| 04:17:27 | <lechner> | dsal: ZeroMQ won this evaluation at CERN ten years ago http://ais-grid-2011.jinr.ru/docs/MW-in-Controls-DUBNA-Oct2011.pptx |
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| 04:18:05 | <dsal> | monochrom: I assume it's bad practice to try to lean on the GC to clean up file descriptors. |
| 04:19:25 | <dsal> | lechner: I remember hearing about it a while back, but just never had a chance to use it. I don't have a pptx viewer handy. |
| 04:19:46 | <lechner> | dsal: http://zeromq.wdfiles.com/local--files/intro%3Aread-the-manual/Middleware%20Trends%20and%20Market%20Leaders%202011.pdf |
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| 04:23:04 | <dsal> | Looks neat. Work is all protobuf all the time. Home is mostly mqtt. I'm not sure where zmq fits in to anything. What are you using it for? |
| 04:23:41 | <lechner> | protobuf will go over it. that's a different layer isn't it? |
| 04:24:57 | <lechner> | i use it to produce the data for lintian.debian.org. some other parts of debian use rabbitmq but they will come around |
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| 04:26:26 | <lechner> | do use protbuf with haskell? |
| 04:26:30 | <lechner> | you |
| 04:27:01 | <Axman6> | Facebook have released a tool for doing protobuf stuff with Haskell I believe, they uise it internally in Sigma |
| 04:27:15 | <Axman6> | hmm, maybe it wasn't protobuff.. |
| 04:27:30 | <Axman6> | it was thrift |
| 04:29:24 | <lechner> | marlow works there? |
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| 04:30:41 | <Axman6> | yeah |
| 04:31:20 | <Axman6> | Facebook are probably the world's biggest user of GHC.s concurrency stuff, and he implemented most of it |
| 04:31:59 | <lechner> | i only saw a talk by a lady about some spam filtering some time ago |
| 04:34:19 | <Axman6> | If by "some spam filtering" you mean, all spam filtering at over 2m requests per second, then yes, that's Sigma |
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| 04:36:32 | <ext0l> | what's the easiest way to play back some music files and allow seeking, play/pause, etc? a la a music player |
| 04:36:38 | <ext0l> | other than using mpd |
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| 04:37:08 | <Axman6> | probably using some native gui widget, but then you need a gui |
| 04:37:22 | <lechner> | Axman6: i may have seen an early talk... |
| 04:37:29 | <ext0l> | i mean, to actually do the "shove audio to output" bits |
| 04:37:56 | <sm> | Axman6: wow. Could we have one of those for #haskell ? |
| 04:38:11 | <Axman6> | writeFile "/dev/audio" musicWav |
| 04:38:23 | <Axman6> | one of what? |
| 04:38:32 | <lechner> | spam filters |
| 04:38:35 | <Axman6> | (probably musicPCM) |
| 04:38:48 | <Axman6> | we could... but we don't actually get much spam here. |
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| 04:47:45 | <ext0l> | hm, doesn't look look like there's a lot of decoder support. so i'd wind up having to just make ffi bindings myself |
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| 04:49:17 | <sm> | still. No harm being overpowered |
| 04:50:58 | <sm> | spammers beware! We will ban your ass 2m times/s! |
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| 04:51:39 | <lechner> | dsal: this 'either' does not work here, even with some extra brackets https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/HvYTa6jj/thing.hs |
| 04:52:25 | <lechner> | shouldn't the branches be partially applied functions? |
| 04:53:02 | <dsal> | Yeah, a function that receives left and then one that receives right. |
| 04:53:17 | <dsal> | That was a rough sketch. I didn't try actually building anything. |
| 04:54:05 | <lechner> | i like the idea. should i try 'reverse' to change tha argument order? |
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| 04:55:07 | <dsal> | You mean flip? |
| 04:55:37 | <sm> | lechner: you can't use $ in a partially applied function, liftIO . printf .... would be better |
| 04:55:38 | <dsal> | You can always start with a lambda then decide whether something could be simplified if you don't e it. |
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| 04:56:10 | <sm> | also, I don't think you can partially apply printf at all, it's speical |
| 04:57:31 | <sm> | (I have often wanted to, but the types defeat me) |
| 05:00:59 | <lechner> | dsal: yes the lambda! i am getting it, slowly |
| 05:01:22 | <dsal> | I'm trying to remember how to TH. heh. |
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| 05:02:10 | <lechner> | sm: thanks! folks here are helping me get off of printf. it's hard to say bye to an old friend |
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| 05:06:47 | <dsal> | I've never used printf in haskell. |
| 05:09:31 | <Axman6> | printf is only acceptable if it's a type safe version of it. If you're not writing printf @"format %s string %d" you're doing it wrong |
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| 05:15:15 | <ext0l> | i haven't written haskell in ages. are lenses the recommended approach to avoid record field name collisions? |
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| 05:15:53 | <Axman6> | We have an extension which allows overlapping field names, but lenses are also pretty useful |
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| 05:16:51 | <ext0l> | aha |
| 05:17:06 | <ext0l> | yeah i remember lenses also being useful for updates and the like |
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| 05:18:41 | <Axman6> | I'm not sure that the overloaded field name problem is a completely solved issue, but things are improving. I'm not sure what the state of the art is at the moment |
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| 05:25:56 | <ext0l> | nod nod |
| 05:26:09 | <ext0l> | i'm glad this language/the community is still around |
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| 05:27:21 | <c_wraith> | records are *almost* solved now. GHC 9.2 will have the last piece. I'm a bit surprised it hasn't been released yet |
| 05:27:33 | <Axman6> | what's coming in 9.2? |
| 05:27:40 | <c_wraith> | -XNoFieldSelectors |
| 05:27:55 | <Axman6> | Haven't heard of that one |
| 05:28:12 | <c_wraith> | It means records don't create top-level accessor functions |
| 05:28:20 | <ext0l> | https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/blob/master/proposals/0282-record-dot-syntax.rst |
| 05:28:21 | <c_wraith> | so there's no global namespace pollution |
| 05:28:23 | <ext0l> | also this |
| 05:28:36 | <Axman6> | ah nice, so you can set fieldzs by name, but you don't get the accessor functions? |
| 05:28:42 | <c_wraith> | yes |
| 05:28:51 | <Axman6> | Yeah we use record dot syntax all the time in DAML, it's pretty nice |
| 05:28:54 | <c_wraith> | record dot syntax is solving the problem of "making things comfortable for OO programmers", not the problem of "making records good" |
| 05:30:46 | <c_wraith> | https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/mhzf9l/announce_ghc_921alpha1_now_available/gt3lexp/ the current state of the art in pleasant records |
| 05:30:52 | <justsomeguy> | Here is a link I found to a pretty exhaustive list of different approaches... https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/records |
| 05:31:54 | justsomeguy | is only a noob, so he doesn't know which of these makes sense, and just generally tries to avoid records (and also tuples, because they are weird). |
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| 05:43:24 | <dsal> | How do you write useful code without records or tuples? |
| 05:43:51 | <siraben> | Map String a /s |
| 05:44:13 | <siraben> | hm not polymorphic enough |
| 05:45:17 | <dsal> | Can I generate lenses with NoFieldSelectors? That sounds kind of nice. |
| 05:45:28 | <Axman6> | everything is just tuples and Either anyway |
| 05:45:52 | <siraben> | polynomial functors |
| 05:45:54 | <Axman6> | dsal: I would be surprised if you couldn't, since they work of the Generic representation |
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| 05:47:35 | <dsal> | That's pretty cool. Now I just need the feature to automatically export all my lenses |
| 05:47:40 | <sm> | lechner, I use it all the time, for the readability. Just can't partially apply it |
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| 05:54:20 | <ext0l> | hmm. if i'm using gstreamer bindings, am i guaranteed that the gc will run often enough that i can rely on finalizers actually running? |
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| 05:58:38 | <Axman6> | "gc ... guarantee" no |
| 05:59:16 | <ext0l> | haha |
| 06:02:25 | <davean> | sm: To aprtially apply printf you need to give a type signature a lot of the time. |
| 06:02:42 | <davean> | At least of the partially applied result |
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| 06:49:33 | <sm> | davean, for sure - I couldn't find the right one in the past, but sounds like you did - good to know |
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| 06:51:01 | <sergio812> | Hi,While using |
| 06:51:06 | <sergio812> | Hi, |
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| 06:52:14 | <sergio812> | While using QuickCheck, I happen to need some generator (like https://stackoverflow.com/questions/39291494/only-generate-positive-integers-with-quickcheck), but then shrinking is not applied anymore. What is the workaround? |
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| 06:53:36 | <sergio812> | i.e. with a property "prop_gt_3" that checks that all elements in a list are greater than 3, "quickCheck prop_gt_3" gives the minimal counterexample "[0]" |
| 06:54:21 | <sergio812> | whereas "quickCheck $ forAll genListOfPos $ prop_gt_3" can give me a (relatively) big couterexample, like "[2,2]" |
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| 06:55:34 | <sergio812> | For the record, generator definitions are "genListOfPos = listOf genPos" and "genPos = (arbitrary :: Gen Int) `suchThat` (> 0)" (see the stackoverflow page for type signatures) |
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| 07:00:39 | <sergio812> | [BTW, on the stackoverflow, "genPos" is a spurious "abs `fmap`" at the start of its definition.] |
| 07:02:43 | <tomsmeding> | sergio812: if you specifically need positive integers, have you tried using Positive? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/QuickCheck-2.14/docs/Test-QuickCheck.html#t:Positive |
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| 07:03:01 | <tomsmeding> | (or NonNegative) |
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| 07:04:15 | <tomsmeding> | sergio812: the 'fmap abs' is I think taken from the quickcheck implementation of Arbitrary for Positive, which has the crucial difference of being generic over any type that is Ord, Num and Arbitrary |
| 07:04:44 | <tomsmeding> | then 'abs' is not necessarily guaranteed to produce something that is '> 0', so they do an extra check just to be sure (which makes no difference for Int) |
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| 07:07:09 | <sergio812> | tomsmeding: I know "Positive", but I deliberately shied away from it,since generators like "genPos" may produce much funkier data not covered by QuickCheck. |
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| 07:07:41 | <tomsmeding> | you mean that you actually want a condition more complicated than just '> 0' ? |
| 07:07:54 | <sergio812> | in the generator, yes |
| 07:08:16 | <tomsmeding> | consider looking at the implementation of Arbitrary for Positive, perhaps: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/QuickCheck-2.14/docs/src/Test.QuickCheck.Modifiers.html#line-266 |
| 07:08:35 | <tomsmeding> | they specially implement 'shrink' using shrink on the original value pre-filtering, then mapping abs afterwards |
| 07:08:50 | <tomsmeding> | s/mapping abs/filtering on >0/ |
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| 07:09:37 | <tomsmeding> | shrink has a default implementation of \_ -> [], so if you want to get shrinking for your custom data type, you'll have to implement 'shrink' somehow |
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| 07:09:58 | <sergio812> | Ah, many thanks! |
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| 07:11:23 | <tomsmeding> | sergio812: I believe 'hedgehog' (a quickcheck alternative) has a different approach (based on explicit generator objects instead of typeclass instances) that automatically determine shrinking paths from the combinators that you use |
| 07:12:16 | <sergio812> | tomsmeding: BTW, I didn't quite get your explanation of 'fmap abs' being useful for other types than mere Int. Do you have an example of type which would need 'abs'? |
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| 07:15:01 | <tomsmeding> | sergio812: no type would _need_ abs, but it might provide a performance improvement |
| 07:15:21 | <tomsmeding> | just filtering on '> 0' will reject half of the samples, on average, while first applying 'abs' will accept roughly all samples |
| 07:15:39 | <tomsmeding> | and just applying 'abs' is not enough, since you might generate 0 :0 |
| 07:15:41 | <tomsmeding> | * :) |
| 07:16:06 | <tomsmeding> | my remark earlier was wrong |
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| 07:16:50 | <tomsmeding> | (this applies for Int as well) |
| 07:17:56 | <sergio812> | Got it, thanks! |
| 07:19:35 | <sergio812> | I got the execution order wrong... |
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| 07:22:30 | <tomsmeding> | sergio812: yeah those inline function applications are confusing without parentheses |
| 07:22:41 | <tomsmeding> | quickcheck's own definition is more readable :p https://hackage.haskell.org/package/QuickCheck-2.14.2/docs/src/Test.QuickCheck.Modifiers.html#line-266 |
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| 07:34:01 | <sergio812> | tomsmeding: YMMV, I would have preferred yet an extra pair of parentheses, i.e. "fmap Positive ((fmap abs arbitrary) `suchThat` (> 0))" instead of "fmap Positive (fmap abs arbitrary `suchThat` (> 0))", that is if I understood correctly |
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| 07:35:44 | <tomsmeding> | sergio812: I guess. I know that record syntax (r { key = value }) goes before normal function application (f a b) which goes before all infix operators (a + b, or x `div` y), so I don't find quickcheck's version confusing |
| 07:36:21 | <tomsmeding> | if you have (a `f` b `g` c), however, then someone may have explicitly messed with the precedences of f and g using infix* statements, which may shift the meaning :p |
| 07:36:37 | <tomsmeding> | from the default left-associative binding |
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| 09:46:10 | <dexterfoo> | Data.Vector has 'Foldable' instance. But Data.Vector.Unboxed does not. why? |
| 09:47:07 | <dminuoso> | % :t fold |
| 09:47:07 | <yahb> | dminuoso: (Foldable t, Monoid m) => t m -> m |
| 09:47:12 | <dminuoso> | % :t foldr |
| 09:47:12 | <yahb> | dminuoso: Foldable t => (a -> b -> b) -> b -> t a -> b |
| 09:47:19 | <dminuoso> | dexterfoo: This is too liberabl on a. |
| 09:48:03 | <dminuoso> | It's the same reason why we cant have Functor on Set |
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| 09:48:43 | <tomsmeding> | how exactly would foldr on vector be different (semantically) from \f x v -> foldr f x (toList v) |
| 09:49:17 | <tomsmeding> | Unboxed.Vector can't be Functor for the reason you mention, but it could be Foldable, right? |
| 09:49:18 | <dminuoso> | You can have MonoFoldable for it though. |
| 09:50:09 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: No. |
| 09:50:15 | <dminuoso> | foldr has to work for *all* a. |
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| 09:50:26 | <tomsmeding> | given that you have a 't a', yes |
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| 09:50:49 | <tomsmeding> | oh right, the point is that an unboxed vector doesn't carry its Unbox dict with it? |
| 09:51:03 | <dminuoso> | Not even that, it's that foldr is too general |
| 09:51:47 | <tomsmeding> | well if I would define: data V a where V :: Unbox a => Unboxed.Vector a -> V a |
| 09:51:50 | <dminuoso> | An `instance Foldable UnboxedVector` would need to impose an additional constraint on `a`, namely that its Unbox, such that you can actually make use of it. |
| 09:51:57 | <dminuoso> | Oh well |
| 09:51:59 | <dminuoso> | Yes you are right |
| 09:52:11 | <tomsmeding> | I see |
| 09:52:16 | <dminuoso> | If the dictionary was embedded and accessible, it seems possible |
| 09:53:06 | <tomsmeding> | not saying that an unboxed vector should carry its Unbox dict with it -- not at all, just trying to understand :) |
| 09:53:14 | <tomsmeding> | dexterfoo: ^ |
| 09:53:24 | <dminuoso> | Sure. |
| 09:54:16 | <dminuoso> | Though I think its hard to say what seems possible and what that would even mean, without an exact specification. |
| 09:54:32 | <dminuoso> | So Ill stick to: Not possible |
| 09:54:42 | <dminuoso> | MonoFoldable however can possibly get half the way |
| 09:55:07 | <dminuoso> | Depending on your needs that is |
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| 09:57:41 | <tomsmeding> | This compiles: |
| 09:57:42 | <tomsmeding> | import qualified Data.Vector.Unboxed as U |
| 09:57:42 | <tomsmeding> | data FatUVector a where FatUVector :: U.Unbox a => U.Vector a -> FatUVector a |
| 09:57:42 | <tomsmeding> | instance Foldable FatUVector where foldr f x (FatUVector v) = U.foldr f x v |
| 09:58:05 | <nshepperd> | you can totally have Foldable on a wrapper that carries the Unbox dict |
| 09:59:03 | <nshepperd> | still can't have functor though ofc |
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| 12:25:41 | <Kammao> | Hello! I want to deploy my webapp on heroku (I used the Yesod webframework) but i can' |
| 12:25:59 | <Kammao> | but it shuts down if i want to push it because it takes too long |
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| 12:26:24 | <Lycurgus> | does herouku support haskell? |
| 12:27:06 | <Kammao> | I found multiple guides online (quite old tbh)..officially in the documenation I have not seen them mentioning Haskell tho |
| 12:27:37 | <Lycurgus> | seems like a culture clash to me. They do support python though. |
| 12:27:48 | <Lycurgus> | or rather django |
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| 12:28:13 | <Kammao> | I was using github pages for my previous website..but now I have a database and I thought heroku would be a good free option since I don't really have traffic there |
| 12:28:31 | <Kammao> | Any other alternatives ideas? Would be much appreciated |
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| 12:28:49 | <Lycurgus> | maybe someone else will say there's a haskell herouku like thing, i don't know of any |
| 12:29:47 | <Lycurgus> | other than noone wants to there's no reason in principle for there not to be |
| 12:30:00 | <Kammao> | Cheers! I'm quite new to programming in general so using docker or messing with nix is a bit over my head. Those being some ways to deploy it - mentioned in the official yesod docs |
| 12:31:03 | <Lycurgus> | easy, quick and dirty, etc, are discordant with the hs culture |
| 12:31:26 | <Kammao> | Fair enough, fair enough |
| 12:32:58 | <lechner> | justsomeguy: thanks for sending that https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/records |
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| 12:37:13 | <Kammao> | Also, I found this : Just split dependencies in half and make a push with only part of the dependencies enabled. Then make a push with all of them enabled. The latter build will use cached dependencies from the former build.` Would that mean commenting out some of the dependencies in the stack.yaml file or cabal file and then pushing to heroku? |
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| 13:54:52 | <Taneb> | Does anyone actually use Data.List.NonEmpty.xor |
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| 14:00:03 | <deejaytee> | wow, that's weirdly specific... |
| 14:00:10 | <Taneb> | Yeah... |
| 14:00:44 | <Taneb> | Something that got added back in 2012 when it was part of one of edwardk's own libraries that he could do with what he wished, and it's just stuck |
| 14:01:18 | <Taneb> | It can also be defined for lists! It has False as an identity |
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| 14:34:22 | <tomsmeding> | interesting also that it's in the category "Converting to and from a list" |
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| 14:35:30 | <[exa]> | I wish hackage had "usage examples" from looking at reverse dependencies :] |
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| 14:52:44 | <timCF> | Hello! I'm trying to do some compile-time magic with TH (generate parsers) and I need to identify somehow from `Proxy a` information about fields of `a` contructors. Ideally I want to know is every particular field `Maybe a` or something else. Any ideas how to get this data on compile-time only from `a` constructor name? |
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| 15:36:20 | <Boarders> | timCF: sounds like something you'd want to use Generic (or similar) for |
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| 16:53:33 | <dminuoso> | Generic-based parsers sounds like a terrible idea. |
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| 16:53:50 | <dminuoso> | Especially if you care about performance. |
| 16:54:14 | <dminuoso> | timCF: You can use reify |
| 16:54:24 | <dminuoso> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/template-haskell-2.17.0.0/docs/Language-Haskell-TH.html#v:reify |
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| 16:56:52 | <dminuoso> | timCF: Ah in particular, reifyDatatype |
| 16:57:02 | <dminuoso> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/th-abstraction-0.4.2.0/docs/Language-Haskell-TH-Datatype.html#t:DatatypeInfo |
| 16:57:18 | <dminuoso> | This could be more helpful than collecting the information yourself |
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| 17:44:18 | <sm> | Kammao: there have been a couple of haskell on heroku how-tos, searching should find them |
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| 18:51:55 | <aegon> | i have so many modules loaded in stackghci that the prompt is a good 1/3 of my terminal space. Is there a way to tell ghci to be more terse about modules active in the current context? |
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| 18:53:14 | <monochrom> | I usually write one last file "play.hs" that imports the million modules. Then it's just ":load play.hs" for me. |
| 18:53:29 | <monochrom> | And so the prompt is just "*Main>" |
| 18:53:47 | <monochrom> | Actually s/usually/used to/ |
| 18:54:06 | <monochrom> | Because these days in reality I use emacs haskell-mode so the prompt is always λ> |
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| 18:55:21 | <aegon> | kk, i'll try that approach. I've tried to get used to emacs but i always just want vim and the rest of the stuff is handled piecewise by unix apps in a tmux session |
| 18:55:28 | <aegon> | i wish emacs had a good text editor :P |
| 18:55:48 | <sm> | in GHC 9.0, the GHCI prompt has been fixed |
| 18:56:07 | <monochrom> | The "play.hs" trick is still very useful. I'm sure you also have a few recurring test cases you don't want to re-enter over and over again. |
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| 18:56:28 | <sm> | otherwise you can put `:set prompt "ghci> "` in ~/.ghci or ./ghci |
| 18:56:36 | <sm> | ./.ghci |
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| 18:56:49 | <DigitalKiwi> | :set prompt "П> " |
| 18:57:02 | <DigitalKiwi> | is in my ~/.ghc/ghci.conf |
| 18:57:04 | <monochrom> | C:\> |
| 18:57:25 | <monochrom> | You know what, for really really real retro: |
| 18:57:27 | <monochrom> | A:\> |
| 18:57:47 | <monochrom> | We old geezers did not always have money for hard disks! |
| 18:58:04 | <monochrom> | It was like $1000 for merely 20MB. |
| 18:58:24 | <DigitalKiwi> | https://gist.github.com/emilypi/cafa2a0dac8c879b2a2916dab71a3f3f :) |
| 18:58:55 | <aegon> | DigitalKiwi: oooh, i din't know you could default enable extensions for it as well |
| 18:59:37 | <pavonia> | DigitalKiwi: What does the Pi stand for? |
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| 19:00:29 | <DigitalKiwi> | pillmore |
| 19:00:33 | <DigitalKiwi> | maybe? |
| 19:00:36 | <aegon> | monochrom: I had to look up what the A drive is :P thats pretty neat |
| 19:00:48 | <monochrom> | Dependent typing has a Π quantifier which is an improved ∀ |
| 19:00:54 | <DigitalKiwi> | but also maybe twice of tau |
| 19:01:38 | <deejaytee> | monochrom: nice choice :D |
| 19:01:45 | <monochrom> | :) |
| 19:01:52 | <DigitalKiwi> | or is it half of tau? fff |
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| 19:03:14 | <monochrom> | Clearly, π is half of τ, τ is half of Π, Π is half of T |
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| 19:04:04 | <DigitalKiwi> | yes, clearly... |
| 19:04:43 | monochrom | prefers Emily Rho. Err I mean Emily Riehl |
| 19:04:46 | <DigitalKiwi> | look i'm here for haskell not this maths stuffs ;p |
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| 19:06:59 | <int-e> | monochrom: B:\> <--to show off your *second* floppy disk drive |
| 19:07:27 | <deejaytee> | int-e: ooooh, ahhhh, special |
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| 19:18:14 | <Guest4> | Hi all, I'm writing a plugin for haskell language server, and I need some help at the knowledge of GHC API. Does it provide a method to collect all type errors in code? |
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| 19:23:41 | weechat-headless | is now known as tolt |
| 19:24:08 | <deejaytee> | it's probably doable, but I don't think there's a function which will do it in one go |
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| 19:27:49 | <dolio> | In some ways, Π is not improving ∀, depending on how you think parametricity should work. |
| 19:28:47 | <monochrom> | Ah I had the logic ∀ in mind, not the type ∀. |
| 19:29:46 | <dolio> | Oh, yeah. For that case ∀ is just Π for a particular universe, basically. |
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| 19:43:16 | <Guest14> | Could f-strings (similar to those in Python) be implemented using TemplateHaskell? |
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| 19:44:29 | <geekosaur> | probably via a quasiquoter |
| 19:44:47 | <geekosaur> | there already exist some string quasiquoters you could start from |
| 19:45:36 | <Hecate> | geekosaur: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/PyF |
| 19:45:43 | <Hecate> | special mention to guibou- |
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| 20:08:17 | <falsifian> | Anyone using ghcjs with nixpkgs? Running ghcjs --make Main on a simple program that imports Data.JSString is giving "Could not find module Data.JSString". |
| 20:10:31 | <falsifian> | I'm not sure if there's some package that's supposed to provide that. |
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| 20:40:16 | <falsifian> | Hm. I got it working by building with cabal and depending on ghcjs-base. But now it doesn't like the "foreign import ..." syntax... |
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| 20:44:40 | <falsifian> | Okay, figured that out. I need the ForeignFunctionInterface language option; JavaScriptFFI isn't enough. |
| 20:46:48 | <geekosaur> | huh. I'd report that as a bug, since JavascriptFFI makes no sense without ForeignFunctionInterface it should probably turn it on (we already have a number of cases where required extensions get turned on automatically by the extensions that require them) |
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| 20:47:28 | <falsifian> | Heh. It looks like ForeignFunctionInterface on its own is sufficient. Not sure what's going on. |
| 20:48:44 | <falsifian> | Main.hs: https://clbin.com/sRPL1; jt.cabal: https://clbin.com/DXV6R |
| 20:49:24 | <falsifian> | Hm, looks like it's already reported at https://github.com/ghcjs/ghcjs/issues/541 |
| 20:50:46 | <falsifian> | For all I know, ForeignFunctionInterface is the one I'm supposed to use anyway. I can't really find official-looking documentation that includes the necessary language option. |
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| 20:52:21 | <delYsid> | In GHC 8 TH, I could just fail in the Q monad. Apparently, with GHC 9 TH, `Code Q a` has no MonadFail instance anymore. How am I supposed to fail the compile now? |
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| 20:55:42 | <falsifian> | geekosaur: Filed https://github.com/ghcjs/ghcjs/issues/808 |
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| 21:03:35 | <hpc> | delYsid: Q itself still has its MonadFail instance |
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| 21:30:27 | <delYsid> | hpc: I was apparently looking for bindCode and joinCode... |
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| 21:40:03 | <janus> | @hoogle Data.Scientific.Scientific -> Data.Fixed.Fixed Data.Fixed.E3 |
| 21:40:04 | <lambdabot> | No results found |
| 21:40:37 | <janus> | how can it be that nobody has written this? hmmm |
| 21:44:22 | <janus> | surely it should be possible to write f x = MkFixed . toInteger . (*) (resolution x) $ x :: HasResolution res => Scientific -> Fixed res |
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| 21:53:47 | <janus> | aaah i would need to conjure up a value "Fixed res", and i guess i can't use mempty... |
| 21:54:08 | <janus> | are there canonical Mult/Add newtype wrappers for common numeric types? |
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| 21:54:51 | <monochrom> | Sum and Product. |
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| 21:55:33 | <monochrom> | I would think realToFrac can do Scientific -> Fixed foo |
| 21:56:32 | <janus> | ooh , i can! thank you! what a bummer that i can't hoogle it... |
| 21:56:56 | <monochrom> | This is why I read library docs from cover to cover instead of using hoogle. |
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| 22:00:20 | <safinaskar> | webchat.freenode.net doesn't work |
| 22:00:23 | <safinaskar> | do you know why? |
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| 22:02:25 | <meejah> | safinaskar: "freenode is dead", approximately? |
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| 22:02:50 | <geekosaur> | what pointed you at webchat.freenode.net? |
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| 22:03:06 | <yushyin> | https://web.libera.chat/ use this |
| 22:03:11 | <geekosaur> | it should prb\obably point to web.libera.chat these days |
| 22:03:36 | <safinaskar> | well, i found on augeas site that they are using freenode |
| 22:03:39 | <safinaskar> | so i am asking |
| 22:04:38 | <geekosaur> | indeed they appear not to have moved here |
| 22:05:31 | <yushyin> | maybe ask the freenode support what's wrong with it |
| 22:07:05 | <DigitalKiwi> | lol good luck |
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| 22:08:21 | <qrpnxz> | it's called freenode, not freesupport /s |
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| 22:16:34 | <pavonia> | freenode seems to enforce SASL connections now, might be related to this |
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| 22:18:52 | <safinaskar> | pavonia: yes, but even webchat.freenode.net doesn't work! |
| 22:19:12 | gabiruh_ | is now known as gabiruh |
| 22:19:18 | <safinaskar> | i. e. freenode's own official web client fails to properly connect to freenode servers! |
| 22:20:02 | <pavonia> | Are you trying to connect via your account? |
| 22:20:57 | <monochrom> | That reminds me. "doesn't work" has not been defined. This has degenerated to a telepathic speculation game. |
| 22:21:26 | <monochrom> | I mean, even if we ignore the fact that this is not a freenode tech support service. |
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| 22:23:32 | <DigitalKiwi> | this is particularly amusing considering what freenode did to this channel and especially edwardk lol |
| 22:25:27 | <pavonia> | What did they do to edwardk? |
| 22:29:51 | <DigitalKiwi> | https://twitter.com/kmett/status/1403428202173796353 |
| 22:30:58 | <monochrom> | Thanks. Yikes. |
| 22:33:27 | <sm> | safinaskar: freenode is dead, you should forget it |
| 22:33:59 | <geekosaur> | augeas appears to still be there |
| 22:34:13 | <geekosaur> | which is what safinaskar was looking for |
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| 22:35:11 | <geekosaur> | (of course it may be living up to its name…) |
| 22:36:10 | <geekosaur> | or down to, as the case may be |
| 22:36:33 | <sm> | I found only https://hackage.haskell.org/package/augeas from 2012 |
| 22:37:45 | <sm> | ah, this page: https://augeas.net/developers.html |
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| 22:40:04 | <sm> | and they don't seem to be on libera at all so maybe they really are a hold out, wow |
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| 22:40:56 | <sm> | no I think they're just not too active |
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| 22:41:38 | <sm> | send em a bug report safinaskar |
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| 22:43:23 | <int-e> | https://nitter.eu/kurtseifried/status/1398712468394811395#m is two months old, still relevant |
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| 22:45:41 | <pavonia> | int-e++ (for posting nitter instead of twitter links) |
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| 22:47:18 | <tpefreedom> | Are there any GUI libraries that are not based on OO? |
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| 22:48:19 | <pavonia> | FRP libraries aren't, I guess |
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| 22:48:26 | <geekosaur> | there's some FRP libraries |
| 22:48:38 | <tpefreedom> | FRP libraries? |
| 22:48:59 | <geekosaur> | some of which wrap originally OO or OO-like libs, but I think some are direct |
| 22:49:06 | <geekosaur> | functional reactive programming |
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| 22:50:49 | <delYsid> | wait, does "cabal build" of a lib implicitly install it somehow? |
| 22:51:12 | <monochrom> | No. |
| 22:51:35 | <monochrom> | Even "cabal install" doesn't install a lib unless you add "--lib". |
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| 22:52:24 | <monochrom> | At least not in the "made available for bare-hand ghci" sense. |
| 22:53:03 | <monochrom> | But "cabal build" is extremely local to your source tree or build tree. |
| 22:53:23 | <delYsid> | I distinctly remember o-clock failed to build with ghc 9 yesterday. So I PR'ed it, and there hasnt been an upload to hackage yet. But today, the package I work on which depends on o-clock builds fine with ghc 9... |
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| 22:53:57 | <monochrom> | Yes sometimes problems resolves themselves. |
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| 22:54:22 | <myShoggoth> | Haskell Foundation July Update: https://discourse.haskell.org/t/haskell-foundation-july-update/2812 |
| 22:54:28 | <monochrom> | Sometimes students email me questions when I'm asleep and email me again "I have figured it out" when I wake and check email. :) |
| 22:55:08 | <delYsid> | monochrom: yeah, but this is something different... |
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| 22:55:38 | <delYsid> | anyway, CI will tell. |
| 22:58:42 | <tpefreedom> | So far, with what little GUI stuff I've done, I've mostly just treated the widget toolkits like other imported libraries with their own built in operations. |
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