Logs on 2021-08-17 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:12:54 | <Axman6> | hmm, years ago I contributed to a library thst used FFTs to resize images, can't remember what it's called though |
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| 02:09:54 | <fernand> | Hi everyone. I'm not able to download Haskell 8.2.2 for MacOS. The Link is returning 404 not found https://www.haskell.org/platform/download/8.2.2/Haskell%20Platform%208.2.2%20Full%2064bit-signed.pkg Is there a mirror somewhere else? |
| 02:11:25 | <Axman6> | why do you want such an ancient GHC version? |
| 02:12:17 | <fernand> | Axman6 for studying purposes |
| 02:12:19 | <Axman6> | the haskell platform is no longer the recommended way to get set up, as https://www.haskell.org/platform/ suggests |
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| 02:14:53 | <fernand> | I see. Thanks |
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| 02:15:18 | <Axman6> | fernand: do you specifically need an old GHC? There is a very good chance it will not run on newer macOS versions, Apple have a habbit of breaking things in the build tools that cause old compiters to stop working |
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| 02:17:33 | <Axman6> | just for reference, GHC 8.2.2 was released 2017-11-21 |
| 02:19:06 | <sm> | a quick test with stack (`stack setup ghc-8.2.2; stack --resolver ghc-8.2.2 exec -- ghc --version`) looks alright |
| 02:19:58 | <Axman6> | on the latest macOS? Ususally the problems arise when trying to actually compile things |
| 02:21:20 | <monochrom> | To be more sure, you need to try to compile a file that uses CPP. |
| 02:21:22 | <fernand> | I am following an old book and they use this version for their code examples. Just wanted to avoid debugging time while learning. |
| 02:21:46 | <Axman6> | Which book? Any introductory book should hopefully be ok with newer GHCs |
| 02:21:50 | <sm> | on latest mac software and hardware, `stack --resolver lts-11.22 build` in `shelltestrunner` works (about 30 deps) |
| 02:21:55 | <monochrom> | That's reasoning. But it cuts both ways. |
| 02:21:57 | <sm> | this may be more than enough for fernand |
| 02:21:58 | <monochrom> | err |
| 02:22:03 | <monochrom> | That's reasonable. But it cuts both ways. |
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| 02:23:05 | <monochrom> | debugging old compiler that doesn't work on new system vs debugging old textbook that doesn't work on new compiler >:) |
| 02:23:40 | <fernand> | Thanks for all the suggestions. I guess I'll try the newer ghc and see how it goes. |
| 02:23:47 | <monochrom> | I would say flip a coin. Later, if something goes wrong, blame the coin. |
| 02:23:58 | <sm> | and `stack --resolver lts-11.22 exec -- bash` gets you a nice ghc 8.2.2 in $PATH |
| 02:24:35 | <Axman6> | fernand: if you install ghcup, you'll be able to install and switch between a few different GHCs very easily using `ghcup tui` |
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| 02:26:33 | <monochrom> | To a large extent, we in this channel has enough collective memory about code migration to new compilers and standard libraries, so that if you encounter code that doesn't compile and you suspect it's an incompatibility, just give us a URL to a paste, we can quickly identify the fix. |
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| 02:28:11 | <fernand> | Thank you Axman6, sm and monochrom ! |
| 02:28:29 | <Axman6> | Stick around and ask lots of questions |
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| 03:21:52 | <Cajun> | is hoogle down? 3: (https://hoogle.haskell.org/) is giving me a 502 bad gateway |
| 03:23:21 | <sm> | yup |
| 03:24:03 | <sm> | there's another one at https://www.stackage.org |
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| 03:43:54 | <dsal> | @hoogle MonadIO m => m a -> IO a |
| 03:43:55 | <lambdabot> | Generic.Data.Internal.Utils coerce' :: Coercible (f x) (g x) => f x -> g x |
| 03:43:55 | <lambdabot> | Basement.Monad unsafePrimToIO :: PrimMonad prim => prim a -> IO a |
| 03:43:55 | <lambdabot> | Control.Effect.Lift sendM :: (Has (Lift n) sig m, Functor n) => n a -> m a |
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| 04:00:12 | <Axman6> | dsal: that type doesn't really make sense, at least not without a type class specifically for doing that; how should foo (bar :: StateT Int IO a) run? |
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| 04:22:50 | <dsal> | Yeah, that was weird. I was confused by the results. heh. But @hoogle works |
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| 08:19:39 | <Drew[m]1> | Is there a package for providing type level information about what platform a package has been compiled on? |
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| 08:22:40 | <[exa]> | Drew[m]1: why type-level? |
| 08:24:06 | <maerwald> | shouldn't that be trivial with CPP and type level literals? |
| 08:24:09 | <[exa]> | (anyway, some compiler data are usually available through preprocessor macros) |
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| 08:30:51 | <Drew[m]1> | <[exa]> "Drew: why type-level?" <- I was thinking about it's possible to avoid CPP by having cabal conditionally import some version of a module depending on platform, and it occurred to me that at the bare minimum all you'd really need to expose is the platform information at the type level and the platform generic code could use that to decide which other parts of the program to use via type classes |
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| 08:32:38 | <Drew[m]1> | I suppose I might be comfortable using CPP to aquire such information in one package so that a client package wouldn't have, but avoiding CPP while varying behavior between platforms is the goal |
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| 08:33:10 | <Drew[m]1> | Whether it's reasonable to do this is something I couldn't possibly comment on |
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| 08:34:37 | <Drew[m]1> | It needs to be type-level so that like CPP everything is decided at compile-time |
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| 08:43:30 | <maerwald> | I don't think you can do that without CPP or TH |
| 08:48:10 | <[exa]> | Drew[m]1: in my project I'm specifically doing single modules that have CPP enabled and just expose whatever is needed from CPP into "normal" typed stuff |
| 08:48:31 | <Drew[m]1> | Well I figure without CPP, to expose the OS and Arch information you'd need a file for every archetecture and a file for every OS.maerwald |
| 08:48:45 | <[exa]> | (usually version information for printing) |
| 08:48:58 | <maerwald> | what creates those files? |
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| 08:51:12 | <Drew[m]1> | Actually if OS information includes versions you'd be doomed. |
| 08:51:12 | <Drew[m]1> | It would only work without CPP if you only offer very coarse platform info: coarse enough to make it feasable to make one file for every option |
| 08:52:08 | <[exa]> | anyway, what would you use it for? deciding on implementation/validity of some code based on platform? |
| 08:53:03 | <Drew[m]1> | Yes, deciding on implementation based on platform |
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| 08:53:49 | <[exa]> | perhaps having the platform-dependent bits in the separate files would be a kindof isomorphic solution then? |
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| 08:57:20 | <[exa]> | OTOH I don't see if/how it could be practical (technically, if you're switching platforms, then usually some functionality is missing on some platforms as in "code does not compile at all", and you just want to #ifdef the stuff out instead of hoping that type-level conditions magically do the right thing) |
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| 08:58:16 | <fvr> | you maybe able to use a plugin to feed the info into a type level function , the result of which can choose a different instance |
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| 09:01:49 | <Drew[m]1> | [exa]: Yeah you're right... whether by CPP or cabal file conditionals that sort of thing still needs to be hidden when compiling on certain platforms |
| 09:03:25 | <[exa]> | like, not necessarily the case with haskell and I perfectly see your point that it _should_ be possible, but in these cases I prefer to keep stuff as simple as possible |
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| 09:04:24 | <[exa]> | esp. given the situation that on 99% platforms you get the configuration input from autoconf as defines, and the redmondish one is better treated as a special case anyway |
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| 09:45:58 | <kuribas> | which logic language would you recommend? I'd like one which has a good IDE (or emacs), and (optional) automated proofs. Export to haskell or other FP languages would be nice. |
| 09:46:39 | <kuribas> | I looked at idris, but proving in idris feels like a secondary feature. |
| 09:47:11 | <opqdonut> | logic language usually refers to logic programming a la prolog. are you looking for a proof system instead? |
| 09:47:28 | <opqdonut> | aka proof assistant |
| 09:47:39 | <opqdonut> | coq is fairly popular and has a nice emacs mode |
| 09:48:05 | <opqdonut> | isabelle is another notable one, but I don't have experience with it |
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| 09:50:19 | <oak-> | Haskell also has the Liquid Haskell |
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| 10:08:18 | <kuribas> | opqdonut: right, proof language :) |
| 10:08:39 | <kuribas> | oak-: what I don't like about liquid haskell is that it doesn't encode bounds. |
| 10:08:49 | <kuribas> | For example, it treats Int as an integer, which it isn't! |
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| 10:09:10 | <kuribas> | opqdonut: and agda or lean? |
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| 10:12:01 | <opqdonut> | kuribas: agda is definitely more programming-oriented with not that much proof automation |
| 10:12:08 | <opqdonut> | lean I've heard of but haven't tried |
| 10:13:25 | <kuribas> | opqdonut: I saw they made a proof of some complicated theorem (which took months). That's quite impressive. |
| 10:13:40 | <kuribas> | Maybe it's more for proving math, rather than proving programs correct. |
| 10:13:42 | <kuribas> | ? |
| 10:14:22 | <opqdonut> | yeah I think isabelle and lean are more in the math camp, coq is kinda in the middle |
| 10:14:41 | <opqdonut> | you can write some code in coq, prove it correct, and then have coq output haskell code |
| 10:14:57 | <opqdonut> | haven't done that myself, just worked through some type theory stuff in coq |
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| 10:15:28 | <opqdonut> | you'll probably find more advice from somebody more experienced than me, but that's my two cents :) |
| 10:17:16 | <kuribas> | oh, and there's f star, which exports to ocaml and f#, but not haskell. |
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| 10:26:43 | <kuribas> | opqdonut: agda has this: https://agda.readthedocs.io/en/v2.5.3/tools/auto.html |
| 10:26:52 | <kuribas> | opqdonut: maybe it's not ver sofisticated? |
| 10:27:42 | <opqdonut> | yeah that's mostly for single holes in a proof |
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| 10:31:29 | <kuribas> | "Another mechanism for proof automation is proof search action in emacs mode. It enumerates possible proof terms (limited to 5 seconds), and if one of the terms fits the specification, it will be put in the meta variable where the action is invoked. " |
| 10:31:46 | <kuribas> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agda_(programming_language)#Proof_automation |
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| 11:30:53 | <chisui> | Hey, what is a good current sound library for haskell. There are some listed on the wiki, but the articles where last updated in 2010. |
| 11:31:41 | <jophish> | previously I've used the sdl audio bindings |
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| 11:36:10 | <chisui> | jophish: Thanks, do you remember which package exactly you used? There are several on hackage |
| 11:36:21 | <hpc> | i once used synthesizer-alsa to build up sounds from nothing - it was fun to use but i didn't get very far into it |
| 11:36:36 | <jophish> | probably https://hackage.haskell.org/package/sdl2-mixer |
| 11:37:26 | <jophish> | oh, sorry https://hackage.haskell.org/package/sdl2 |
| 11:37:30 | <jophish> | that has SDL.Audio |
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| 11:39:53 | <jophish> | sorry, actually it was the former I think, whatever exports |
| 11:39:53 | <jophish> | import qualified SDL.Mixer as Mix |
| 11:40:01 | <jophish> | for some reason I didn't commit a .cabal file |
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| 11:53:54 | <tomsmeding> | chisui: playing (possibly generated) sound over a speaker, or reading/writing sound files? |
| 11:54:30 | <chisui> | tomsmeding: playing generated sound over a speaker. |
| 11:54:47 | <tomsmeding> | then what jophish said :) |
| 11:54:54 | <tomsmeding> | (otherwise probably https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hsndfile ) |
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| 12:10:38 | <chisui> | thanks |
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| 13:18:08 | <__monty__> | kuribas: Don't expect too much from automated proofs. Afaik Coq is the most advanced constructive logic-based proof assistant in this regard. Proof automation is a lot more useful in the SMT sense. |
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| 13:29:24 | <kuribas> | __monty__: can't these use SMT solvers? |
| 13:29:35 | <kuribas> | I remember there was one for Coq |
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| 13:31:38 | <__monty__> | No, SMT solvers are way more limited in what they can do. |
| 13:31:48 | <__monty__> | Which is why they're amenable to automatic proving : ) |
| 13:32:25 | <__monty__> | Model checking is much easier than proof search in an enormous search space. |
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| 13:33:46 | <merijn> | "enormous" is an understatement for "infinite" ;) |
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| 13:36:03 | <__monty__> | I wasn't sure whether constructive maybe implied countable infinity or even less. So I went with the relatively safe "enormous." |
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| 13:36:12 | <kuribas> | __monty__: https://smtcoq.github.io/ |
| 13:37:24 | <__monty__> | That's pretty cool. The second bullet I figured, but the first one is novel. |
| 13:38:11 | <__monty__> | Still SMT is a lot less general a method. So really, it depends on what you're interested in. |
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| 13:40:55 | <kuribas> | well, a lot of what is tedious in proving programs correct can be solved with SMT. |
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| 13:44:07 | <__monty__> | Sure, model checking is super useful and practical. |
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| 13:59:07 | <merijn> | __monty__: Countable infinity is still infinite |
| 13:59:35 | <merijn> | And even in a constructive setting you have at least countable infinity |
| 13:59:50 | <__monty__> | merijn: Do note the "even less" though. All this proof assistant stuff is from way back when for me. |
| 14:00:15 | <merijn> | __monty__: I'd think even in a constructive setting you'll quickly hit countable infinity |
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| 14:01:02 | <__monty__> | That's what I suspect. But you'll never catch me speaking confidently about math stuffs. |
| 14:01:30 | <sshine_> | does megaparsec not have 'brackets', 'braces' and 'parens'? |
| 14:02:37 | <merijn> | sshine_: You want parsers |
| 14:02:39 | <__monty__> | @hoogle Control.Applicative.Combinators.between |
| 14:02:39 | <lambdabot> | Control.Applicative.Combinators between :: Applicative m => m open -> m close -> m a -> m a |
| 14:02:41 | <merijn> | (the package) |
| 14:02:51 | <merijn> | or the other one |
| 14:02:53 | <__monty__> | I think the package is parser-combinators? |
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| 14:02:57 | <merijn> | ah, yeah |
| 14:03:23 | <merijn> | Should be re-exported from megaparsec, but they didn't explicitly re-export, so the docs don't show up |
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| 14:05:00 | <__monty__> | I was hoping hoogle would list the package tbh. That's the only reason I qualified. |
| 14:05:14 | <tomsmeding> | hoogle never lists package names except in the web interface |
| 14:05:17 | <tomsmeding> | this annoys me every single time |
| 14:05:30 | <sshine_> | ah, that's why. and yes, I did look in parser-combinators by hitting 's' in hackage. |
| 14:05:31 | <tomsmeding> | what use is searching for a name in a global list of packages if the search result doesn't show the package name |
| 14:06:03 | <tomsmeding> | luckily there is 'hoogle server' :p |
| 14:06:22 | <__monty__> | Yeah, it's suboptimal. The other unfortunate part is it only searches stackage : / |
| 14:06:23 | <sshine_> | the only reference I find is in megaparsec in this comment: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/megaparsec-9.1.0/docs/Text-Megaparsec-Char-Lexer.html#v:symbol |
| 14:07:14 | <__monty__> | Tbf that reference does show you exactly what you want though? |
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| 14:08:32 | <sshine_> | __monty__, I'd like to know where to import them from. I don't see that anywhere? |
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| 14:09:04 | <sshine_> | I think maybe they're not defined because megaparsec tries to be agnostic about parsing whitespace. |
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| 14:10:15 | <__monty__> | You mean the specific ones or "between"? Because yeah, only the latter is defined. |
| 14:10:23 | <sshine_> | yes, the specific ones. |
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| 15:55:52 | <chisui> | Hey, I'm trying to write a simple modular synthesizer using sdl2 and conduit. I would like to write the outputs as conduit consumers. Unfortunately sdl plays samples via a callback that provides a buffer to write into: `IOVector actualSampleType -> IO ()`. How can I create a consumer that provides such a function? This is my first time working with |
| 15:55:52 | <chisui> | conduit. |
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| 16:02:08 | <chisui> | Essentially what I need is a pull consumer. |
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| 16:11:21 | <carbolymer> | any ideas how can I print colors using Turtle? |
| 16:13:58 | <maerwald> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/pretty-terminal |
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| 16:19:02 | <jay-invariant> | chisui: One solution would be to use stm-conduit to pass the results to a channel push-style, and then have another thread running the callback that reads from the channel. |
| 16:19:38 | <carbolymer> | maerwald: I mean... I have an opposite problem, my commands output colors and I want to print them. >>= echo seems to do the trick, anyway, thanks |
| 16:20:55 | <jay-invariant> | chisui: You could also use another library that supports pull-style consumers natively. I'm fond of dunai, and I think pipes can also do it if configured right |
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| 16:22:31 | <chisui> | jay-invariant: Yeah, pipes is more what I need here. I'll take a look at dunai. Thanks |
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| 16:29:07 | <timCF> | Hello! Was anybody able to cross-compile Haskell programs for armv6 platform? Maybe you can recommend me some resources where I can learn how it can be done? |
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| 16:33:30 | <chisui> | jay-invariant: Um, can you give me any pointers on how to use dunai with pull? |
| 16:35:10 | shapr | hops randomly |
| 16:35:21 | <shapr> | Hello peoples! How's the code? |
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| 16:40:06 | <jay-invariant> | chisui: In dunai, each component is consuming one input per "tick", and producing one output. The basic type is an `MSF m a b`, which is a function that takes a stream of `a`s into a stream of `b`s, with monadic effects in `m`. At the end of the day you want to use combinators to get to a `MSF IO () ()` which you can run in a loop with `reactimate`. |
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| 16:48:21 | <jay-invariant> | chisui: I imagine the tricky part is setting up the sink on the end. One approach might be to run individual steps directly in the callback with `unMSF`. |
| 16:48:21 | <chisui> | jay-invariant: My current plan would be to append an action that pushes a value into an `IORef [Int16]` and call `Data.MonadicStreamFunction.ReactHandle.react` as many times as the buffer is long and then copy the values from the IORef to the buffer. That seems a little clunky though. |
| 16:48:21 | <chisui> | maybe manually stepping through unMSF would be easier. |
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| 16:49:55 | <jay-invariant> | chisui: I think the best might be to write something like `ReactHandle`, but which produces the right output type, rather than (). |
| 16:50:37 | <jay-invariant> | The code in ReactHandle is pretty short, it looks like it just steps using unMSF |
| 16:50:48 | <jay-invariant> | and saves the continuation in an IORef |
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| 16:51:35 | <chisui> | jay-invariant: Since it's real time audio I should probably just have one thread filling a buffer and another one reading from it. That could be achieved with just `reactimate`. |
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| 16:52:18 | <jay-invariant> | ^^ That too. Although to be fair you could do that with conduit as well |
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| 16:54:37 | <chisui> | I'm intrigued by the interface dunai provides |
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| 17:27:36 | <dsal> | timCF: I used to build my own GHC for armv7. It was always a fun challenge. |
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| 17:29:43 | <chisui> | jay-invariant: Thank's for showing me dunai. Once the system is running, it's super clean: `reactimate (time . sinwave . play)` |
| 17:30:53 | <chisui> | * `reactimate (time . sinwave 440 . play)` |
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| 17:49:16 | <abhixec> | trying to install termonad and getting Could not find module ‘GI.GModule.Structs.Module’ anyone know how I can resolve this? |
| 17:52:06 | <abhixec> | oops wrong channel sorry! |
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| 18:08:50 | <jay-invariant> | timCF: I think you may need to build your own GHC. The first step is generally to install the cross toolchain (gcc, ld, libraries, etc.) for your target platform, and then you follow https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/building/cross-compiling . I've done it for ARM before and I ran into an issue with LD; it was fixed by forcing GHC to use gold (an alternate linker, included in gnu binutils) |
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| 18:10:19 | <jay-invariant> | This blog: https://medium.com/@zw3rk/a-haskell-cross-compiler-for-raspberry-pi-ddd9d41ced94 and several of the posts linked there may be useful |
| 18:12:08 | <jay-invariant> | Also note that template haskell causes some major pain when cross-compiling. People have set up some solutions, but if you don't need it I would avoid TH all together |
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| 18:25:01 | <chisui> | Is there a `while :: IO Bool -> IO b -> IO ()` equivalent in base? |
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| 18:26:30 | <glguy> | no |
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| 18:29:12 | <monochrom> | There is one in some packages on hackage such as monad-loop (I forgot the exact name) and other. |
| 18:29:27 | <monochrom> | But you can tell how much I actually care. |
| 18:29:37 | <dsal> | @hoogle IO Bool -> IO b -> IO b |
| 18:29:38 | <lambdabot> | GHC.Base thenIO :: IO a -> IO b -> IO b |
| 18:29:38 | <lambdabot> | HsShellScript (-|=) :: IO a -> IO b -> IO b |
| 18:29:38 | <lambdabot> | HsShellScript (=|=) :: IO a -> IO b -> IO b |
| 18:29:51 | <dsal> | That's weird. |
| 18:30:21 | <jay-invariant> | It can't have that signature. What if the first action returned `False`, then you'd be getting a `b` out of nowhere |
| 18:30:39 | <monochrom> | Even in C, C++, and Java, I don't really find myself writing pure for-loops and pure while-loops all that much. There is always a "break" or "continue" or "return" in the middle. |
| 18:31:17 | <monochrom> | Therefore in Haskell a while-loop feature is of even lesser relevance. If it's already pretty irrelevant in C. |
| 18:32:14 | <dsal> | I've used whileM_ once as far as I can tell. |
| 18:32:18 | <dsal> | @hoogle whileM_ |
| 18:32:18 | <lambdabot> | Control.Monad.Loops whileM_ :: Monad m => m Bool -> m a -> m () |
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| 18:32:28 | <monochrom> | Whenever in C you see me "using" a while-loop but has some breaks and continues in the middle, you know that I would use handwritten recursion in the Haskell equivalent. |
| 18:32:48 | <chisui> | I have to manually implement a spinlock. It also would be just 4 lines long. |
| 18:34:23 | <dsal> | My one use case is: `runWaitForUploads = whileM_ inProgress (sleep 15)` |
| 18:34:40 | <monochrom> | heh |
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| 18:37:53 | <jay-invariant> | chisui: I'm curious, what do you need a spinlock for? I'm no expert, but the advice I've heard is "never use spinlocks in userspace" |
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| 18:38:14 | <chisui> | jay-invariant: so that the buffer doesn't overflow. |
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| 18:39:24 | <chisui> | Currently the `sinwave 440` produces output faster than sdl outputs, so I have to throttle the generating thread somehow. |
| 18:39:31 | <jay-invariant> | chisui: Why not use some higher-level queue that already handles the locking? |
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| 18:41:02 | <dsal> | blocking buffered queues are good at that sort of thing. |
| 18:41:54 | <chisui> | Do you have any packages I could take a look at? |
| 18:42:46 | <monochrom> | You can start with MVar. Comes with GHC. Control.Concurent.MVar or something. And it is not the only choice, there are others. |
| 18:43:44 | <monochrom> | MVar equals bounded queue of capacity 1. |
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| 18:44:08 | <jay-invariant> | I know `stm` has a `TChan` and `TQueue`, but those are both unbounded. You could make it bounded using a semaphore, or look for another package. |
| 18:44:16 | <monochrom> | If you like a larger capacity, there are choices. |
| 18:44:41 | <monochrom> | You're in luck. stm also has a TBQueue. |
| 18:45:19 | <jay-invariant> | ah, I missed that |
| 18:45:20 | <chisui> | I need an efficient implementation of 200k Int32 |
| 18:45:34 | <chisui> | s/of/for/ |
| 18:46:12 | <dsal> | Oh interesting. TBQueue has two counters. I guess that makes sense. I would've just used an unbounded queue and one counter. |
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| 18:47:34 | <monochrom> | I think it's 2 counters because it's 2 lists. The usual pure functional "queue is 2 lists, front and back" trick. |
| 18:48:12 | <aegon> | i'm having a rough time deciphering this error message. I think i need to use some form of lift, but maybe i'm instancing MonadHttp in an incorrect place? |
| 18:48:17 | <aegon> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com/lG8UF1es |
| 18:48:36 | <jay-invariant> | One way to get a constant-factor speedup would be to feed the queue fixed-sized chunks of many Int32's. You could make a sink like `MSF IO Int32 ()` that internally fills a vector, then pushes it to the queue when it's reached a certain size |
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| 18:51:59 | <chisui> | Well I have a large `IOVector` I write audio samples to. In another thread I generate these samples. Currently this causes an error since the buffer fills up too quickly. My current solution is that I set a limit and in the `arrM` function I spin wait until the buffer is empty enough to fill it again. |
| 18:54:02 | <monochrom> | If that case you can easily replace the spin-lock by a real-lock. MVar as a size-1 queue is equiv to a lock, too. |
| 18:54:34 | <monochrom> | You can define "acquire" to be one of putMVar or takeMVar, "release" to be the other. |
| 18:54:35 | <jay-invariant> | aegon: I think you need to `lift $ R.deleteAnchor c auuid`, since `ScottyT` does not forward the underlying monad's `MonadHTTP` |
| 18:55:13 | <aegon> | jay-invariant: i found a lift from ActionT e m a's instance of MonadTrans that i think would do the job but I can't find out where to import it from |
| 18:55:17 | <monochrom> | Or s/acqure/green light/, s/release/red light/. Or whatever convention you feel like. |
| 18:55:55 | <jay-invariant> | aegon: I think just `Control.Monad.Trans` |
| 18:56:04 | <jay-invariant> | in mtl |
| 18:56:42 | <aegon> | jay-invariant: aand, works. thanks :) |
| 18:58:28 | <jay-invariant> | aegon: I would create the IOVector and fill it in the sending thread, then send it via TBQueue (or MVar, if you only want to buffer one chunk) to the callback thread. Then the callback thread just passes the vector along |
| 18:58:42 | <aegon> | chisui: ^ |
| 18:58:55 | <jay-invariant> | oh yeah whoops chisui |
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| 18:59:34 | <monochrom> | MVar is very cheap. |
| 19:00:08 | <monochrom> | STM is where yes you can begin worrying about overhead. One single MVar? No. |
| 19:00:22 | <chisui> | Unfortunately I don't know how big the read chunk will be before it is requested |
| 19:00:53 | <chisui> | I would have 50000 write actions on the MVar right? |
| 19:01:34 | <jay-invariant> | chisui: no, I'm suggesting you make a large vector, and write the MVar once, when the vector is full |
| 19:01:51 | <jay-invariant> | that way you never have to worry about a vector being accessed by two threads at once |
| 19:01:56 | <monochrom> | The MVar contains (). |
| 19:02:44 | <monochrom> | You use it as a green light red light. Not for storing data. |
| 19:02:58 | <chisui> | Ahhh, I have never seen the `MVar ()` as mutex pattern before. |
| 19:03:00 | <monochrom> | "message" does not always mean data either. |
| 19:03:25 | <monochrom> | (ever heard of "control messages"?) |
| 19:03:26 | <jay-invariant> | oh, well that's not how I would do it. I'm more of a fan of go's "share memory by communicating, don't communicate by sharing memory" |
| 19:03:46 | <chisui> | monochrom: no I haven't heard of control messages |
| 19:04:45 | <monochrom> | I guess I have more lower-level background than average. But network protocols are full of control messages. |
| 19:04:54 | <monochrom> | especially for flow control |
| 19:05:57 | ← | jakalx parts (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Error from remote client) |
| 19:06:19 | <monochrom> | And my supervisor's enlightening comment that "synchonization" is a special case of messaging. Think about it. |
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| 19:07:22 | <jay-invariant> | Something like a `TBQueue (Vector Int)`, where each Vector has some large fixed size, should be reasonably efficient without much risk of concurrency bugs |
| 19:07:24 | <monochrom> | If you and I are synchronizing, perhaps I'm waiting for you and you tell me "now it's time" when the time comes. Well that's a message right there. |
| 19:07:34 | <chisui> | well, what if the callback requests 40k samples and the next time 50k samples? How to I know when to provide compute more values? |
| 19:08:40 | <jay-invariant> | The size of the chunks you send might not be exactly the size the callback asks for, in which case the callback thread will have to handle re-arranging the vectors |
| 19:08:44 | <aegon> | chisui: I'm probably derailing things here, but what about using a chunked consumer type patternwhere if you want to process 50 at a time, consume till 50, then had those 50 off to the audio proc |
| 19:08:54 | <aegon> | is there any reason you can't chunk audio processing in the middle? |
| 19:09:49 | <chisui> | aegon: the audio library I'm using determines the chunk size on demand |
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| 19:11:24 | <jay-invariant> | The reason I'm suggesting `TBQueue (Vector Int)` over just `TBQueue Int` is just for efficiency, but conceptually it's the same idea: the callback will read some number of Ints from the queue and copy them into the buffer until its full |
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| 19:13:08 | <jay-invariant> | I think some amount of copying and re-arranging is unavoidable, since you want to start processing before the callback has handed you the destination buffer |
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| 19:17:25 | <jay-invariant> | It might be more readable to split it into a pure `chunk :: MSF m Int (Maybe (Vector Int))` that builds up immutable chunks using the ST monad or something under the hood, and then pass that to a sink that enqueues it |
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| 19:46:28 | <aegon> | ws ge |
| 19:46:33 | <aegon> | whoops |
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| 20:45:22 | <sshine_> | merijn, https://github.com/sshine/hs-verifpal/runs/3354820416?check_suite_focus=true <- I wrote a while back that I'd get back once I saw cabal fail in my CI setup. here's an example. |
| 20:47:47 | <sshine_> | oops, I think I know what's wrong. |
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| 20:48:32 | <sshine_> | this wasn't a cabal thing, but an actual backwards compatibility thing. |
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| 20:51:10 | <aegon> | is there a "gentle" way of learning more about template haskell and generics or is it more diving into the deep, like is there some dumb problem you can solve with reasonably simple th / generics to get a feel for it? |
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| 20:54:05 | <sshine_> | aegon, https://markkarpov.com/tutorial/th.html is one resource |
| 20:55:18 | <aegon> | sshine_: thanks! |
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| 20:57:33 | <sshine_> | aegon, wrt. Generic, there's an article on how 'deriving' works in GHC that may serve as inspiration as to what kind of use you want to make of e.g. Generic: https://kowainik.github.io/posts/deriving |
| 20:58:25 | <aegon> | aslo thanks! these both look great |
| 20:58:57 | <sshine_> | aegon, here's a newer intro to TH (featured in Haskell Weekly #271): https://serokell.io/blog/introduction-to-template-haskell |
| 21:00:57 | <sshine_> | I really like this tutorial :) |
| 21:02:24 | <gehmehgeh> | int-e: by the way, the "sequence" we talked about earlier produces gigantic space leaks. I'm struggling to udnerstand way. |
| 21:02:49 | <gehmehgeh> | int-e: Example: bla = chunksOf 5 [1..1000] |
| 21:02:58 | <jay-invariant> | aegon: between the two of them, I would advocate for using generic where possible. It's more limited in scope, and people who need to cross-compile will thank you! |
| 21:03:09 | <gehmehgeh> | int-e: take 1 $ filter (\x -> head x== 93939393939393) $ sequence bla |
| 21:03:40 | <gehmehgeh> | tomsmeding: ^ |
| 21:05:35 | <gehmehgeh> | ah, let me refactor this example |
| 21:05:35 | <tomsmeding> | gehmehgeh: you're using 'sequence' as cartesian product here? |
| 21:05:43 | <gehmehgeh> | int-e: take 1 $ filter (\x -> False) $ sequence bla |
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| 21:06:01 | <tomsmeding> | so bla :: [[a]] |
| 21:06:07 | <gehmehgeh> | yeah |
| 21:06:35 | <gehmehgeh> | just try it out, it take up several GB of RAM in seconds |
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| 21:07:10 | <tomsmeding> | gehmehgeh: is this ghci or a file |
| 21:07:17 | <gehmehgeh> | tomsmeding: both |
| 21:07:33 | <tomsmeding> | are you compiling the file with optimisations :p |
| 21:07:42 | <gehmehgeh> | tomsmeding: yeah |
| 21:07:43 | <gehmehgeh> | -O2 |
| 21:07:55 | <gehmehgeh> | well, OK, in the file I don't have the type [[a]] |
| 21:08:01 | <gehmehgeh> | but it's close enough |
| 21:08:36 | <tomsmeding> | fascinating |
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| 21:10:15 | <gehmehgeh> | tomsmeding: hmm, I haven't tried the version I just posted here with -O2 and ghc, but something complicated. Maybe it will actually work as intended if it's just something like [[Int]] |
| 21:10:49 | <tomsmeding> | doesn't work for me and I'm trying to figure out why |
| 21:10:56 | <tomsmeding> | as in, your trivial example explodes |
| 21:11:31 | <gehmehgeh> | that's actually good news for me, because this means the rest of my code is probalby OK |
| 21:11:35 | <gehmehgeh> | *probably |
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| 21:11:52 | <gehmehgeh> | tomsmeding: you can also try "mapM id", but I guess that's just "sequence"? |
| 21:12:16 | <gehmehgeh> | hm, seems like |
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| 21:13:17 | <aegon> | sshine_: jay-invariant: thanks! i'll be parsing them over the next couple of days |
| 21:13:48 | <gehmehgeh> | tomsmeding: have to go to bed now, I'll be back tomorrow |
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| 21:14:14 | <gehmehgeh> | tomsmeding: if you somehow find out what the problem is, let me know :) Thanks! :) |
| 21:14:20 | <tomsmeding> | of course :p |
| 21:14:38 | <tomsmeding> | but low expectatiosn |
| 21:14:43 | <gehmehgeh> | sure! |
| 21:15:09 | <gehmehgeh> | it's actually int-e's trick, taken from the "blow your mind" Haskell wiki page |
| 21:15:30 | <gehmehgeh> | good nicht |
| 21:15:32 | <gehmehgeh> | night |
| 21:15:40 | <tomsmeding> | g'night :) |
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| 21:15:59 | <monochrom> | It blows the computer's mind. |
| 21:16:25 | <monochrom> | Galaxy size memory footprint. >:) |
| 21:17:30 | <monochrom> | But IIRC the code of sequence, when applied to [], specifies so much laziness it spends memory memoizing what you intuitively expect to be re-computed rather than memoized. |
| 21:19:07 | <monochrom> | https://stackoverflow.com/questions/3190098/space-leak-in-list-program |
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| 21:25:47 | <Drew[m]1> | What's the current cool hip effects library everyone is into these days |
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| 21:26:28 | <tomsmeding> | monochrom: yeah, that seems to be exactly it |
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| 21:26:39 | <monochrom> | You know what, I think s/cool hip everyone is into/much talked about by vocal minority/ would make more sense. |
| 21:26:52 | <tomsmeding> | sequence is defined somewhat different nowadays, but I'm fairly sure it ends up doing the same thing with regards to sharing the tails |
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| 21:27:12 | <monochrom> | My impression is that the silent majority are still using merely monad transformer stacks. |
| 21:27:19 | <tomsmeding> | (the thing being that the ys argument of cons_f is used multiple times in https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.14.0.0/docs/src/Data.Traversable.html#line-230 ) |
| 21:27:42 | <gehmehgeh> | monochrom: cool! thank you! |
| 21:27:57 | <Drew[m]1> | monochrom: Yeah, and so am I, but today I decided I don't know enough about them to hold an informed opinion, hence the inquiry |
| 21:29:03 | <gehmehgeh> | hmm, but isn't the official "sequence" definition (on lists) wrong then? |
| 21:29:09 | <gehmehgeh> | or bad (tm)? |
| 21:29:43 | <monochrom> | I might agree with "bad". I wouldn't agree with "wrong". |
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| 21:31:46 | <gehmehgeh> | hm, anyway, got to go. Thanks for the help |
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| 21:38:01 | <fernand> | Hi everyone. I'm trying to import housing data from Numeric.Datasets but the default source url is down (https://github.com/DataHaskell/dh-core/blob/master/datasets/src/Numeric/Datasets.hs#L326). Is there a way to switch the source url? |
| 21:38:56 | <dsal> | fernand: That looks like it is a URL. Can't you just use a different one? |
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| 21:44:18 | <fernand> | dsal that's what I would like to do, but I'm not sure how. |
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| 21:45:12 | <dsal> | Is your problem that something is using that URL and you want to use something different? I'm a bit confused because you could construct your own URL pretty easily, but it sounds like your problem may be something else. |
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| 22:17:36 | <lechner> | Hi, in source files, are SQL queries best entered as mklti-line strings? |
| 22:17:45 | <lechner> | multi |
| 22:18:20 | <monochrom> | Depends on whether it looks nicer? |
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| 22:20:47 | <lechner> | it's too long for a single line. is there an alternative? |
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| 22:21:10 | <monochrom> | Then make it multi-line. |
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| 22:22:13 | <lechner> | ouay, thanus! |
| 22:22:25 | <lechner> | okay thanks! |
| 22:22:41 | <lechner> | changed some keks |
| 22:22:41 | <sm> | I often do s = unlines [ |
| 22:22:41 | <sm> | ... |
| 22:22:41 | <sm> | ] |
| 22:22:59 | <lechner> | sm: i liue that! |
| 22:23:04 | <lechner> | like |
| 22:23:06 | <sm> | there are nice libs like `here` but they bring complications |
| 22:23:51 | <lechner> | as a previous Perl addict, i'll explore |
| 22:24:19 | <sm> | quasiquoter, so maybe less well supported by some |
| 22:24:19 | <sm> | platforms/some tools, eg |
| 22:24:45 | <monochrom> | unlines inserts newlines. not sure you want newlines in the middle of a SQL query. |
| 22:24:59 | <sm> | and just another dependency, so another source of problems |
| 22:25:34 | <lechner> | hm |
| 22:25:49 | <sm> | oh I think those are fine for postgres at least ? if not then yes, unwords |
| 22:27:23 | <monochrom> | unwords is more intuitive, yeah, you do expect to insert a space into ["select", "foo", "where"], which even multi-line string doesn't do for you and you'll be puzzled. |
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| 22:29:10 | <monochrom> | ah I guess SQL uses ; to mark the end, so it is happy with newlines left right and centre. |
| 22:29:27 | <hpc> | left right and inner |
| 22:30:22 | <sm> | it's nice to see a a big query nicely formatted on multiple lines in logs, when debugging etc |
| 22:30:26 | <hpc> | i vote multiline strings |
| 22:30:40 | <hpc> | it's a bit ugly, but having to faff about with list syntax is worse imo |
| 22:31:11 | <sm> | hpc: what kind are those again ? something with / line endings ? |
| 22:31:35 | <monochrom> | \ |
| 22:31:48 | <monochrom> | "hello I am \ |
| 22:31:53 | <monochrom> | \monochrom" |
| 22:32:58 | <sm> | yeah those seem really ugly and tool-unfriendly but I will give it another try |
| 22:33:20 | <monochrom> | In fact, it doesn't have to have a newline in the middle. It's generally \whitespaces\ |
| 22:33:32 | <monochrom> | > "hello I am \ \monochrom" |
| 22:33:34 | <lambdabot> | "hello I am monochrom" |
| 22:34:36 | <hpc> | in my experience the only tool that matters is ghc :P |
| 22:35:00 | <sm> | hm, not for me |
| 22:35:09 | <monochrom> | I would blame it on the tools if they're unfriendly to a piece of very-standardized-for-over-20-years Haskell syntax that merely needs a simple regex to recognize. |
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| 22:35:42 | <monochrom> | We are not even talking about recognizing layouts. |
| 22:35:58 | <sm> | ha, surely a simple regex will solve everything |
| 22:36:25 | <hpc> | it'll certainly solve most regular problems :P |
| 22:36:28 | <monochrom> | But emacs haskell-mode works pretty much correctly with this one. |
| 22:37:10 | <glguy> | My vim recognizes haskell's multiline strings. I forget if that's default or not though |
| 22:37:12 | <monochrom> | It does still have a bug but it can be mitigated by deleting and re-inserting some double quotes. |
| 22:38:15 | <sm> | these paper cuts add up |
| 22:38:37 | <hpc> | my vim gets confused sometimes by multiline strings, but that's just syntax highlighting |
| 22:38:37 | <sm> | i'd be interested to know what percentage of haskell projects use that syntax |
| 22:38:46 | <hpc> | my ide is a vertical split terminal with ghci on one side |
| 22:38:52 | <glguy> | I redid the haskell.vim syntax highlighting locally |
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| 22:41:01 | <sm> | hpc: not even ghcid ? brutal :) |
| 22:41:33 | <monochrom> | I haven't needed ghcid since -fdefer-type-errors was introduced. |
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| 22:42:22 | <hpc> | i like minimalism |
| 22:42:30 | <glguy> | Just having ghcid's reload-on-save behavior changes the way I write Haskell |
| 22:42:56 | <hpc> | (also i have learned minimalism over time - sometimes i use vi instead of vim because i don't know what's installed) |
| 22:43:20 | <monochrom> | I use vim.tiny. vi lacks cursor keys. |
| 22:43:54 | <hpc> | it's probably vim.tiny, just whatever the distro's /bin/vi is |
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| 22:44:13 | <monochrom> | Either that, or it lacks supporting cursor keys when in insert mode. |
| 22:44:42 | <hpc> | it's both - i remember using real vi aaaaaages ago |
| 22:45:14 | <sm> | cursor keys are always broken one way or another |
| 22:45:25 | <sm> | it's a law |
| 22:45:53 | <hpc> | sometimes i enjoy when they don't work |
| 22:46:00 | <hpc> | once i put the konami code in my ssh password |
| 22:46:12 | <sm> | in terminals, at least |
| 22:46:28 | <monochrom> | hahaha |
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| 22:52:42 | <pompez> | Hi, new and learning Haskell. I am wondering -- why does the this short snippet (https://paste.tomsmeding.com/6iIA5HM8) evaluate as I'd expect it to? I'd expect 2 input prompts and then evaluating as a 2 elements long IO [String]. But the program just doesn't stop with the prompts. Could it be something about IO that prevents it from being lazily evaluated? |
| 22:53:11 | <pompez> | *doesn't |
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| 22:54:11 | <hpc> | you're mixing evaluation and execution |
| 22:54:39 | <hpc> | execution is strict (unless you use a few specific definitions that use lazy IO) |
| 22:55:10 | <sclv> | sequence just runs the io actions one after the other |
| 22:55:38 | <hpc> | and since you use repeat, it's going to keep asking forever |
| 22:56:04 | <hpc> | now what you can do is write something like do {lineActions <- repeat getLine; sequence (take 2 lineActions)} |
| 22:56:19 | <hpc> | er |
| 22:56:22 | <pompez> | I tried that and it worked as expected |
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| 22:56:40 | <hpc> | that first line is let ...=... but you know what i mean |
| 22:56:54 | <pompez> | I do |
| 22:56:59 | <monochrom> | You're expecting the equivalent of: if you have "main = getLine >> getLine >> return ()", it will never need any input from you. |
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| 22:57:39 | <monochrom> | I can respect that expectation if you don't know better a priori, but one single empirical test readily debunks that mental model. |
| 22:58:51 | <monochrom> | Let's get more whimsical and philosophical. If you have "main = putStrLn "hello"" and run it but you don't look, does the printing happen? |
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| 22:59:23 | <pompez> | monochrom: That example (with a test) really helps |
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| 22:59:26 | <sclv> | i'd need to look to find out :-) |
| 22:59:37 | <sclv> | like maybe the computer caught fire |
| 22:59:44 | <pompez> | Hah |
| 23:00:09 | <hpc> | @quote warm |
| 23:00:10 | <lambdabot> | edwardk says: i think the comonads are warm fuzzy, and the monads are warm sticky. its easy to get out of a comonad, its soft and you like wearing it. monads on the other hand stick to you and are |
| 23:00:10 | <lambdabot> | icky |
| 23:00:18 | <pompez> | Well, but would it be impossible to do inputs in a lazy manner? |
| 23:00:28 | sclv | has debugged far too many things to trust anything happens |
| 23:00:33 | <monochrom> | That's the realm of getContents. |
| 23:00:59 | <hpc> | @quote 286.ghc |
| 23:00:59 | <lambdabot> | cjeris says: vincenz: no, on a 286 GHC feels warm, like a little fire you can warm your hands at. wait, that smells funny. wait, that was my CPU. |
| 23:01:18 | <monochrom> | I generally discourage it unless you have proved that you can perfectly predict lazy evaluation. |
| 23:01:19 | <sclv> | you can look at the source of sequence, and write a similar version that calls `unsafePerformIO` every time it actually executes an IO action, and that would correspond to what you're looking for |
| 23:01:25 | <sclv> | but I do _not_ recommend this in practice :-) |
| 23:01:49 | <hpc> | more directly, there's unsafeInterleaveIO |
| 23:02:06 | <sclv> | oh right, i meant to say interleave rather than what i did |
| 23:02:41 | <hpc> | and just to emphasize, the word "unsafe" there is not just for fun |
| 23:02:51 | <pompez> | Well, I am not intending to do something just because. But why is it not used in practice? |
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| 23:03:08 | <sclv> | unsafeInterleaveIO basically takes an `IO a` and "delays" it so that when you get the `a` out of it, it doesn't actually perform the IO action until the `a` is evaluated. So hrm... you could map unsafeInterleave over your list, then sequence it..? |
| 23:03:22 | × | notzmv quits (~zmv@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 23:03:29 | <hpc> | pompez: evaluation order isn't guaranteed, so tying execution to evaluation makes execution order not guaranteed |
| 23:03:34 | <sclv> | its not used in practice because predicting evaluation order is tricky, and can lead to surprising effects, even for seasoned programmers |
| 23:04:01 | <sclv> | and at times things may be repeatedly executed you expected to only be executed once, or things you thought would be executed never are |
| 23:04:07 | <monochrom> | We want I/O to jump-start lazy evaluation (lest there is really nothing to evaluate). This is simplest if I/O is not lazy. |
| 23:04:31 | <sclv> | so the sequencing the IO monad provides gives nice guardrails that help reasoning |
| 23:04:34 | <pompez> | Makes sense |
| 23:04:35 | <monochrom> | Besides, we don't really want to answer the kind of whimsical philosophical question I posed. |
| 23:05:05 | <monochrom> | "if no one is looking, should getLine and putStrLn do anything?" |
| 23:05:24 | <monochrom> | You don't want to go down that rabbit hole. They do their jobs here and now. KISS. |
| 23:05:27 | <sclv> | (note: I have used and do use these primitives carefully, and in situations that warrant it, but only after thinking really hard, consulting, and deciding it actually makes sense. and even then i've made mistakes and been surprised) |
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| 23:07:27 | <pompez> | Could you maybe recommend a good resource that talks about evaluationand execution as it pertains to Haskell? |
| 23:08:57 | <sclv> | https://www.seas.upenn.edu/~cis194/fall16/lectures/06-io-and-monads.html ? |
| 23:09:07 | <sclv> | I suggest playing around yourself just a little longer as you have been |
| 23:09:15 | <sclv> | and you'll probably get a good intuition fast |
| 23:10:53 | <pompez> | Will do |
| 23:10:57 | <pompez> | And thanks a lot |
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| 23:20:35 | <Cale> | pompez: Evaluation is the process of turning expressions into values, typically for the purposes of deciding which pattern matches, or occasionally in order to turn an expression of a function type into a lambda so that it can be applied. |
| 23:20:59 | <Cale> | pompez: In Haskell, that process doesn't cause anything user-visible to happen apart from memory being allocated and the CPU getting hot. |
| 23:22:15 | <Cale> | Instead, IO action values describe effects. Evaluating the expression for an IO action doesn't cause the effect to occur, it just possibly does some work to figure out which thing to do is being described. |
| 23:23:03 | <Cale> | Execution is the process of carrying out the effects described by IO action values. In a compiled program, the IO action called 'main' gets executed, and you can also execute IO actions by giving them to ghci. |
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| 23:24:11 | <Cale> | (It will magically notice when an expression denotes an IO action and execute it for you as well as print the result of the execution. Otherwise, it just tries to use 'show' on things to turn them into a String to print.) |
| 23:25:15 | <hpc> | one useful thing to note here is that there's no in-language notion of "just execute this" - just sequencing which is "after this executes, execute this" |
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| 23:25:48 | <hpc> | and no in-language notion of "just evaluate this" either - just "in order to evaluate this, you need to evaluate that" |
| 23:25:55 | <Cale> | Yeah, do-blocks let you combine a bunch of IO actions to produce another IO action, and those are syntax sugar for a chain of uses of (>>=) which basically does the same. |
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| 23:27:10 | <hpc> | and when you're figuring out how something gets evaluated, think in terms of chains of those if-thens |
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| 23:29:03 | <hpc> | (also when someone says "expr is strict in x", they're saying "in order to evaluate expr, you need to evaluate x") |
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| 23:32:27 | <lbseale> | I am using haddock to generate some docs, and it's working, but it's ignoring my input for the title. Instead of the title it just says "ml" in the top-left. Anyone know what to do? |
| 23:32:33 | <pompez> | Cale: Are list comprehensions with <- also just synax sugar for the same thing? |
| 23:33:35 | <Cale> | pompez: Basically. You could also desugar them in terms of concatMap, but that is equivalent to the (>>=) for lists. |
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| 23:34:19 | <hpc> | [f x | x <- something; boolean expression] translates to do {x <- something; guard (boolean expression); pure (f x)} |
| 23:34:26 | <monochrom> | Instead of answering that question, I would evade it and answer "the generated asm code is the same", and "does it really matter how to compiler gets there?" |
| 23:34:26 | <hpc> | :t guard |
| 23:34:27 | <lambdabot> | Alternative f => Bool -> f () |
| 23:35:00 | <hpc> | there's a language extension that makes list comprehensions work for more than just lists, but it's a bit of a gimmick |
| 23:35:06 | <monochrom> | or at least, s/the generated asm code/after optimizations, the generated asm code/ |
| 23:35:17 | <hpc> | i like do notation better, personally |
| 23:35:58 | <monochrom> | s/how to compiler/how the compiler/ |
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All times are in UTC on 2021-08-17.