Logs on 2021-08-23 (liberachat/#haskell)

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00:39:20	<thornAvery>	whats the best way to get a version number for a --version flag+
00:41:03	<Axma47030>	In the past I have used https://hackage.haskell.org/package/configuration-tools which provides a few really nice things by default - version of the app and all its libraries and their licences
00:41:19	<Axma47030>	licenses*
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00:58:33	<thornAvery>	Axman6: thanks ill have a look at it
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02:14:40	<glguy>	thornAvery, This is what I do to get my version information: https://github.com/glguy/irc-core/blob/v2/src/Client/Options.hs#L135-L176
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04:25:54	<sm>	glguy, is that using https://hackage.haskell.org/package/githash ?
04:26:20	<glguy>	glirc --full-version \| grep git
04:26:20	<glguy>	gitrev-1.3.1
04:26:33	<sm>	ah
04:26:59	<sm>	I think githash is just newer version of that
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04:27:52	<glguy>	oh, maybe I need to update
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04:31:25	<sm>	Axma47030: does that package let you print the version of all deps the program was built with ?
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04:50:59	<aegon>	when using things like --dump-simpl or profiling with haskell stack, where should i be looking for the core files?
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05:09:44	<fresheyeball>	ok, so I have a quandry
05:09:51	<fresheyeball>	and it's going deeper than I would like
05:09:59	<fresheyeball>	but, what is the right way to code a login form?
05:10:11	<fresheyeball>	the server should set cookies I believe
05:10:21	<fresheyeball>	but that means a redirect on each form submission
05:10:26	<fresheyeball>	which is bad ux
05:10:38	<fresheyeball>	So far the best I can think of is to have 2 login endpoints
05:10:53	<fresheyeball>	one the checks creds and can give an error via AJAX
05:11:08	<fresheyeball>	and the other that actually sets cookies, via redirect after the first endpoint approves
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05:52:11	<edwardk>	dumb q: as someone just now tuning into how icfp is running this year, uh, where are the chat rooms and the like that there have been in years past? did they do away with them entirely?
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06:35:23	<Axman6>	sm: I thhink so, but I don't remember - pretty sure it prints versions along with the license
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07:57:41	<kuribas>	I removed more type families from my mysql library. Now only one type family left.
07:58:03	<kuribas>	Not much fancy haskell left now. Unless you count light usage of DataKinds as phantom types...
07:58:24	<kuribas>	And generics...
07:59:28	<Hecate>	kuribas: hurray for improved compilation times :D
07:59:44	<kuribas>	Hecate: oh, and template haskell :)
07:59:48	<kuribas>	but it's optional.
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08:03:48	<Hecate>	kuribas: you should make a companion library with -th if you really have that many optional features implemented in TH :)
08:03:57	<Hecate>	helps with portability as well
08:04:04	<kuribas>	why?
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08:04:15	<kuribas>	you don't need to use it...
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08:07:32	<kuribas>	If you are using the typed layer, the TH is very recommended...
08:07:54	<kuribas>	I could however split the package into hasqlator-mysql and hasqlator-typed-mysql...
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08:34:27	<merijn>	!!!
08:34:37	<merijn>	Breaking news that dramatically improves my life further!
08:34:45	<merijn>	SQLite now supports strong typing!
08:34:48	<merijn>	\o/
08:35:25	<dminuoso>	merijn: Source?
08:36:43	<merijn>	dminuoso: https://www.sqlite.org/draft/stricttables.html
08:37:19	<dminuoso>	Neat. :)
08:37:30	<merijn>	Now I can shill SQLite even harder
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08:46:05	<Rembane_>	Sweet!
08:46:17	<Rembane_>	SQLite be like: flex!
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08:50:36	<wz1000>	merijn: which version will this show up in?
08:52:09	<tdammers>	"As far as we know, SQLite is the only SQL database engine that supports this advanced capability."
08:52:12	<tdammers>	talk about flexing
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08:59:18	<merijn>	wz1000: Planned for 3.37
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09:18:39	<merijn>	On an entirely different topic, given a (simple, if that helps) numerical function of N inputs. Which algorithms/techniques do I want to find the inputs with maximum output?
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09:21:26	<kuribas>	merijn: multivariate optimization algorithm?
09:22:50	<kuribas>	oh neat, I can use recordWildCards with other assignments :)
09:23:11	<kuribas>	this works: Foo { foo = foo + 1, bar = bar <> "bar", ..}
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09:23:30	<merijn>	kuribas: Yes, but machine learning feels overkill the equations I'm dealing with
09:23:43	<kuribas>	merijn: I wasn't talking about machine learning :)
09:24:06	<merijn>	kuribas: Most results for multivariate optimisation return a billion ML things :p
09:24:17	<Rembane_>	merijn: Is N big enough that a maximum [arg_1, ... arg_N] isn't feasible?
09:24:24	<kuribas>	https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hmatrix-0.15.2.0/docs/Numeric-GSL-Minimization.html
09:24:32	<kuribas>	merijn: because it's the same problem?
09:25:11	<merijn>	Rembane_: number of values isn't super big, but the values are continuous
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09:26:29	<merijn>	kuribas: Incidentally, that doesn't appear to be in recent hmatrix releases anymore
09:27:11	<merijn>	But I guess I want hmatrix-gsl
09:27:50	<Rembane_>	merijn: Oh, okay.
09:28:20	<dminuoso>	tdammers: My software also has this advanced capability of putting out smileys if you ask it nicely enough.
09:28:25	<dminuoso>	It's the only known software that does this.
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09:30:36	<merijn>	dminuoso: I've seen lots of software do that :p
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09:30:56	<merijn>	Hell, entire Discord bots seem to function by smiley reactions to messages, so... :p
09:31:01	<dminuoso>	But one does it as well as mine does.
09:31:05	<dminuoso>	none, even.
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09:33:24	<int-e>	@botsnack
09:33:24	<lambdabot>	:)
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09:34:22	<int-e>	merijn: see, it's just continuing a trend started on #haskell ;-)
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10:25:43	<tdammers>	frankly, I would love a bot that actively eradicates all smileys and other emoji nonsense from the face of the earth
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10:59:34	<timCF>	Hello! Does anybody know how to remove imports/definitions/aliases from ghci session?
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11:01:51	<timCF>	Just to clear current scope from defined things
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11:03:20	<merijn>	Not even sure that's possible, tbh
11:03:32	<dminuoso>	You can remove imports
11:03:44	<merijn>	Sure, but not definitions inside ghci, I think?
11:03:49	<merijn>	Or does :reload reset thos?
11:03:59	<dminuoso>	https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/ghci.html#controlling-what-is-in-scope-with-the-module-command
11:04:15	<dminuoso>	timCF: ^-
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11:07:55	<timCF>	merijn: dminuoso: thanks!
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11:27:10	<timCF>	I do have some "noob" problems with `microlens`. I'm using this library as consequence of usage of `proto-lens` which is the best protobuf library for Haskell I guess. Problem with `microlens` in my team is that for not very experienced Haskell programmers they are very confusing. For example there are 2 different access operators `^.` and `^?` and intuitevly second should be used for `Maybe` values. But
11:27:16	<timCF>	it's not working as expected without `_Just` prism. For example `x ^? Msg.maybe'ok` will produce `Just Nothing` which will always return True with isJust (case where we just checking that response is ok or not). To make it work as expected, we should use `x ^? Msg.maybe'ok . _Just` or `x ^. Msg.maybe'ok`. And type system is not helping that much in case of this kind of errors. I thought maybe I can solve
11:27:22	<timCF>	the issue if `^?` is not imported, then developers are forced to use `^.` but seems like it's not working with nested fields, for example `x ^. Msg.maybe'ok . _Just . Msg.maybe'user` will fail to compile with some strange error about Monoid instances. I don'
11:27:36	<timCF>	I don't like solution like "triple check what you are actually writing" and prefer type system to help
11:27:54	<dminuoso>	timCF: Switch to `optics` then.
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11:27:58	<timCF>	Are there any suggestions how to fix this kind of issue?
11:28:04	<dminuoso>	The underlying problem is roughly this:
11:28:58	<dminuoso>	% :t view
11:28:59	<yahb>	dminuoso: MonadReader s m => Getting a s a -> m a
11:29:01	<dminuoso>	% :i Getting
11:29:02	<yahb>	dminuoso: type Getting :: * -> * -> * -> *; type Getting r s a = (a -> Const r a) -> s -> Const r s; -- Defined in `Control.Lens.Getter'
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11:29:34	<dminuoso>	% :t _Just . _1
11:29:34	<yahb>	dminuoso: (Applicative f, Field1 a1 b1 a2 b2) => (a2 -> f b2) -> Maybe a1 -> f (Maybe b1)
11:30:14	<dminuoso>	timCF: Notice how we have this `Applicative` constraint?
11:30:30	<dminuoso>	Essentially what this all ends up doing is:
11:30:47	<dminuoso>	In `lens` we can `view` through a Fold, and it will just `mappend` all targets together
11:30:52	<dminuoso>	If no target exist, you get `mempty` back
11:30:57	<dminuoso>	e.g.:
11:31:12	<dminuoso>	% view folded [Product 1, Product 2, Product 3, Product 4]
11:31:13	<yahb>	dminuoso: Product {getProduct = 24}
11:31:34	<dminuoso>	This may not be what you intended, and its one of those things why I dont like `lens` either.
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11:32:23	<dibblego>	timCF: a lens composed with a prism gives you a traversal
11:33:08	<timCF>	dminuoso: I see. Does `optics` "solves" it somehow? Not sure is it bug or feature)
11:33:14	<dminuoso>	Yes.
11:33:29	<dminuoso>	Let me quickly give you the output
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11:34:25	<dminuoso>	timCF: https://gist.github.com/dminuoso/58f816500a5cd9fa4affff440e301af6
11:34:49	<dminuoso>	So if you wanted the behavior of `lens`, you'd have to explicitly use `foldOf`
11:35:03	<dminuoso>	Otherwise you get very well written customed type errors
11:36:08	<dminuoso>	Or perhaps, as a comparable example:
11:36:23	<dminuoso>	% view (_Just . _1) (Just ("foo", bar))
11:36:25	<yahb>	dminuoso: ; <interactive>:13:33: error:; * Variable not in scope: bar; * Perhaps you meant `Sym.var' (imported from Data.Number.Symbolic)
11:36:28	<dminuoso>	% view (_Just . _1) (Just ("foo", 1))
11:36:29	<yahb>	dminuoso: "foo"
11:37:00	<dminuoso>	https://gist.github.com/dminuoso/4195934615b775b3ef7514f97b63dcc7
11:37:07	<dminuoso>	The output you'd get in optics
11:37:40	<dminuoso>	(The output here means, that the composition of `_Just % _1` is an AffineTraversal, but `view` demands a Getter
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11:38:57	<timCF>	dminuoso: Thanks! I'll try this! I hope `optics` will be compatible with `proto-lens`
11:39:25	<dminuoso>	timCF: Mmm not directly.
11:40:02	<dminuoso>	I mean you can trivially convert between lens-style and optics-style optics, but its additional work
11:40:18	<Jack>	Anyone ever taken a look at C++'s "functional" library?
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11:44:17	<[exa]>	Jack: yes
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11:49:55	<Jack>	It's kind of adorable, isn't it
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11:51:57	<[exa]>	depends on the kind of adorable you're after
11:52:07	<[exa]>	std::bind is often a lifesaver
11:52:47	<Rembane_>	[exa]: Is std::bind like $ in Haskell?
11:53:09	<[exa]>	literally like ' ', yea
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11:53:52	<[exa]>	afaik it implements a pretty good static representation of the closure
11:54:32	<Rembane_>	Do you get that sweet lisp scoping when you use std::bind?
11:54:58	<[exa]>	lisp scope is structural or lexical?
11:55:03	<[exa]>	(I can never remember)
11:55:14	<Rembane_>	Me neither, so I guess we're stuck now. :)
11:55:25	<[exa]>	anyway the scope is perfectly c++ish
11:55:41	<Rembane_>	If everything works as expected it's fine imo
11:56:08	<[exa]>	yeah it really works, if you want to do a partial application std::bind is the way
11:57:03	<[exa]>	or a std::thunk <-- fiction
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11:59:09	<Rembane_>	It's a good thunk.
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12:03:51	<timCF>	dminuoso: I also thought maybe I can avoid `^?` using monadic nature of maybe, so `x ^? maybe'foo . _Just . maybe'bar . _Just` can be rewritten as `x ^. maybe'foo >>= (^. maybe'bar)` but I'm afraid it's even more confusing. But maybe not :)
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12:38:49	<jacks2>	hi. given parsec's someParser :: Parser a, is it possible to get current line number in someParser?
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12:52:16	<[exa]>	Jack: not sure about parsec but megaparsec has `getSourcePos`
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12:53:54	<[exa]>	ha, parsec has equivalent `getPosition`
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13:11:10	<ggVGc>	isn't it about time Haskell gets one officially standard parsing library
13:12:14	<tdammers>	"official" by whose authority?
13:12:57	<merijn>	We already have an official standard parsing library in base :p
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13:13:11	<merijn>	Actually, two, I think
13:13:15	<merijn>	And they suck :p
13:13:25	<tdammers>	readP?
13:13:34	<merijn>	and readS
13:13:40	<tdammers>	ah yes
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13:22:35	<[exa]>	ggVGc: y tho
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13:27:09	<merijn>	If I've learned anything from my time in python, it's that "officially blessed and in the standard library" has a 100% fatality rate on libraries :p
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13:31:23	<ggVGc>	I just wish that wasn't the case
13:31:45	<ggVGc>	imagine if we could collectively stop writing and rewriting 20 versions of the same things all the time
13:35:08	<[exa]>	producing quality packages requires training on other ones
13:35:49	<maerwald>	yeah, I will support streamly based parsers in base
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13:36:29	<merijn>	ggVGc: That seems an orthogonal issue
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13:36:43	<merijn>	ggVGc: If there is a good and adequate parser library, what's stopping you from using it
13:37:11	<merijn>	Like, how would an "officially blessed and in base" version of megaparsec be better than, just megaparsec?
13:37:42	<[exa]>	also I guess we can kinda agree that almost all SI-prefixed variants of parsec have their own place
13:37:46	<maerwald>	well... haskell is really bad at composition
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13:37:53	<maerwald>	more stuff in base can improve that
13:37:54	<ggVGc>	I believe the possible positive outcomes are always more focused efforts, and better documentation
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13:38:02	<merijn>	maerwald: So is pretty much every mainstream language :p
13:38:06	<maerwald>	merijn: no
13:38:20	<maerwald>	the weaker the types, the easier the composition, sometimes
13:38:32	<maerwald>	since haskells API is all very type heavy, you can't easily exchange implementations
13:38:53	<maerwald>	that's often less of an issue in, say, Go
13:39:10	<maerwald>	because the few types they use are everywhere
13:39:13	<[exa]>	can we count in the debugging time? :D
13:39:26	<merijn>	maerwald: Depends how you define "easier", sure you can combine more things, but I assumed we only cared about bugfree combinations :p
13:40:05	<maerwald>	merijn: you don't have bugfree anywhere
13:40:19	<merijn>	maerwald: I also disagree that's an inherent flaw in Haskell, it's just a flaw in Haskell programmers to make their API's types inconvenient
13:40:45	<maerwald>	sure, it's an ecosystem effect, but the language is more convenient for it
13:40:48	<maerwald>	so it's both sides
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13:42:02	<maerwald>	people thought backpack might solve this, but lol
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13:42:22	<merijn>	I blame pytorch hijacking ezyang
13:42:24	<maerwald>	you still have to agree on an API, like... what's parsing, what's streaming etc
13:44:06	<maerwald>	and looking at conduit and streamly, the APIs are already incompatible
13:44:07	<maerwald>	inherently
13:44:25	<maerwald>	so backpack is not the solution
13:45:22	<maerwald>	if we had an actual functioning CLC that is working on base actively, I don't think it would be an issue to broaden the scope
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13:45:50	<[exa]>	...write a grant?
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13:46:23	<maerwald>	money solves it?
13:46:27	<[exa]>	honestly I think e.g. MS research would not think twice about this precise ecosystem improvement
13:46:32	<[exa]>	well, you need people to do that
13:46:37	<maerwald>	HF has money
13:46:47	<merijn>	I mean, base's problem is that it can't move fast without breaking everything
13:46:58	<merijn>	Not to mention, significant parts are in the report
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13:47:58	<[exa]>	maerwald: still it somehow chooses to work on other stuff
13:48:02	<maerwald>	yes
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13:48:27	<[exa]>	maerwald: anyway the issue might just be more problematic, driven by actual programming deficiency than just people being lazy
13:48:35	<maerwald>	they're more concerned with broadening Haskell adoption in industry I think... at least that's what I gather from their mission statement discussion
13:49:11	<[exa]>	writing super-compatible stuff that still has types and not just "FromResult a => IO a" takes insane amounts of abstraction
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13:49:27	<maerwald>	broadening adoption is more about building a brand/an image, providing consulting services, etc etc
13:49:31	<maerwald>	less about improving ecosystem
13:49:36	<[exa]>	monkeypatching stuff together (python/ruby way yay) certainly works but that's one thing we wanted to prevent right?
13:50:07	<[exa]>	adoption broads itself with killer apps
13:51:22	<[exa]>	anyway I'd certainly vote for having the internals of the packages exposed a bit more, having some way of recombining them in a little different way/with different glue types in case it's needed
13:51:51	<[exa]>	the problem is that there's no such now, except for 1] having 100x more type variables 2] backpack, kinda
13:52:07	<[exa]>	*no such standardized way to do that
13:52:36	<[exa]>	not standardized -- not even available
13:55:28	<[exa]>	hm now that's a research topic, assurance of some api compatibility without standardization
13:55:33	<[exa]>	...let's write a grant?
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14:01:55	<jacks2>	[exa], nice, thanks!
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15:06:21	<jose03>	ghcup has nice terminal user interface. Does anybody know which haskell library they used for the UI? Or is it a C program?
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15:08:29	<[exa]>	jose03: apparently Options.Applicative and Brick
15:08:36	<[exa]>	see code https://gitlab.haskell.org/haskell/ghcup-hs/-/blob/master/app/ghcup/Main.hs
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15:19:22	<maerwald>	jose03: brick
15:20:27	<maerwald>	https://gitlab.haskell.org/haskell/ghcup-hs/-/blob/master/app/ghcup/BrickMain.hs
15:20:47	<maerwald>	barely 500 LOC
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15:20:59	<maerwald>	only downside is it doesn't support windows
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15:23:48	<merijn>	optparse-applicative for commandline arguments/flags
15:23:55	<merijn>	brick for anything TUI like
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15:26:56	<jose03>	[exa]: maerwald: merijn: thank you
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16:40:26	<siers>	I'm trying to understand the difference between {,G}ADTs. They both inductively create more elements in the set from old elements, but with GADTs you can restrict which elements you may use to to construct the next one, if you wish?
16:41:59	<Lycurgus>	what does {,G} signify over what G does?
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16:42:35	<siers>	ah, that is a stupid shellism
16:42:43	<siers>	echo {,G}ADTs
16:42:45	<siers>	ADTs GADTs
16:42:49	<Lycurgus>	i c
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16:53:56	<Drew[m]>	siers: This may be an oversimplification but my understanding is that GADTs let you define datatypes with type parameters, where what fills the parameter is decided by which constructor you constructed the datatype with.
16:53:58	<Drew[m]>	If the constructor you use fixes a type parameter in a type then the reverse is also true: fixing the type parameter also fixes what data constructor you can construct a value in that type with.
16:54:44	<Lycurgus>	like extra virgin olive oil, in this case extra abstact
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16:58:26	<monochrom>	The GHC User's Guide has an example in its GADT section.
16:59:00	<monochrom>	Generally 99% of the time the GHC User's Guide should be your first go-to source for this kind of consultations.
16:59:23	<monochrom>	Has examples. Pinpointing. Cuts to the mustard.
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17:07:13	<Lycurgus>	*abstract
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17:35:15	<maerwald[m]>	GHC user guide is often better than haskell wiki
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17:47:01	<siers>	monochrom, I am trying to describe it with my own words differently after reading the user guide already.
17:47:14	<fresheyeball>	is there a way to use CPP to special case code for test suites?
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17:48:07	<fresheyeball>	basically I want Arbitrary instances to be local to the type, not orphans, but not to have a dependency on QuickCheck in the exe
17:50:13	<monochrom>	I think no.
17:50:41	<tomsmeding>	fresheyeball: see also: https://www.michaelpj.com/blog/2020/10/29/your-orphans-are-fine.html
17:51:00	<tomsmeding>	for some nuance regarding orphans
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17:51:18	<sm>	sure ? you can define a cpp var in the test component ?
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17:52:06	<sm>	should you ? maybe not ?
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17:53:09	<fresheyeball>	tomsmeding: I have more problems than just orphans to be fair
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17:56:12	<aegon>	I see how the ffi works with basic characters, is there a way to use it to marshell haskell types into structs or structs into haskell types or keep a reference to an opaque type exposed by a c lib / what does that look like?
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17:58:16	<fresheyeball>	I figured out a solution
17:58:31	<fresheyeball>	cpp-options: -DTEST
17:58:36	<fresheyeball>	in the suite is all that is needed
17:58:41	<fresheyeball>	but I wish it was built in
18:00:20	<aegon>	https://stackoverflow.com/questions/30026843/haskell-data-instance-for-opaque-data-type found this for opaque types but having trouble finding things on passing / parsing structs across the ffi
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18:05:16	<pavonia>	aegon: Have you read the wiki page on the FFI? https://wiki.haskell.org/Foreign_Function_Interface#Marshalling_data
18:05:52	<aegon>	pavonia: nope, and that looks like it has everything i'm pondering spelled out
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18:15:27	<maerwald>	do we have some fuzzy function/class to determine if a list is null-ish? like ["", ""]
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18:15:57	<maerwald>	I'm not striving for clear semantics, since the input isn't
18:16:16	<monochrom>	I think no one has thought of it before.
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18:17:28	<monochrom>	My understanding is that this is a job more suitable for humans, in particular some of my weaker students who conflate 0, the empty set, the empty list, and the non-empty list that contains the non-empty set that contains the empty list.
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18:19:07	<monochrom>	s/weaker/very weak/
18:19:36	<maerwald>	I can imagine this working with a class that just gets called recursively. As with `Default`, of course it's subject to heavy abuse
18:20:27	<monochrom>	If you ever codify something into code, then unless there is non-determinism, you will end up with one clear semantics.
18:20:51	<monochrom>	This is why for fuzzy things I would refer to weak humans.
18:21:51	<maerwald>	you mean plug in your students neural network into my binary?
18:22:09	<aegon>	maerwald: imo that type of problem points to bad data parsing / sanitizing, I'm trying to think of a place where this would be benificial to do in the middle of a computation as apposed to during injestion. If it's happening in the middle of a computation couldn't you use Maybe to signify possible failure or some other thing to be more explicit about the meaning of "nullish"
18:22:33	<maerwald>	aegon: yes, I don't control the data
18:22:35	<monochrom>	For example I wouldn't be against a simple recursive algorithm "is_nullish xs = every element of xs is_nullish". At the same time, I have zero confidence that this agrees with your user's expectation.
18:23:16	<aegon>	maerwald: can you sanity check it at the IO layer where your consuming it? in that case you could write the sanity check into the parser
18:23:38	<maerwald>	aegon: why would I sanity check? I want to accept as much junk as possible
18:23:54	<aegon>	why do you want junk?
18:23:58	<maerwald>	this is about supporting as many curl versions as possible and their funky output
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18:24:49	<maerwald>	so I'm doing half-assed parsing, not proper parsing
18:26:38	<maerwald>	the real fix would have been to use `--suppress-connect-headers`, but of course, not all versions have it
18:29:21	<[exa]>	maerwald: what about `not . any isAlphaNum . show` ? (might save time)
18:30:04	<[exa]>	(counter-example: `map (flip replicate "" . ord) "oh hello there"`)
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18:30:54	<maerwald>	yeah, for my use case T.stripEnd is enough with a later filter on `not . null`
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18:33:12	<maerwald>	until a new curl version does something new :p
18:33:25	<[exa]>	\o/
18:33:41	<maerwald>	wget seems much more stable
18:33:44	<maerwald>	although a lot slower too
18:34:05	<[exa]>	wget's got some internal machinery to make stuff faster, you can pipe URLs to it
18:34:39	<maerwald>	wget performs REALLY bad with etags
18:34:46	<[exa]>	whats etags
18:35:07	<maerwald>	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_ETag
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18:36:07	<maerwald>	compare: wget -q -S --header 'If-None-Match: "612388b3-1bc72"' https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/data/ghcup-0.0.6.yaml
18:36:17	<maerwald>	curl -H 'If-None-Match: "612388b3-1bc72"' https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/data/ghcup-0.0.6.yaml
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18:36:27	<maerwald>	curl is twice as fast
18:36:32	<maerwald>	at least here
18:37:56	<[exa]>	hm interesting, right ~600ms curl vs ~800 for wget here
18:38:08	<maerwald>	curl is 480ms here
18:38:24	<[exa]>	+- a lot, σ~=100ms I'd say
18:38:32	<maerwald>	but noticable
18:38:43	<[exa]>	what does Dr. Strace say?
18:39:23	<maerwald>	he's too chatty :p
18:41:29	<[exa]>	well let's see actually, I'm interested
18:41:50	<[exa]>	chances are that wget is doing something for free for some vaguely userfriendly reason
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18:44:28	<maerwald>	wouldn't be surprised if it makes a full download and then decides to show 304
18:44:51	<maerwald>	but that's quick to test
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18:46:45	<maerwald>	doesn't seem so... I'm also having vastly different timings to downloads.haskell.org compared to www.haskell.org
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18:48:03	<[exa]>	so, wget loads faster by like 20ms here
18:49:40	<maerwald>	comparsion: wget -q -S --header 'If-None-Match: "61140ad8-3cbea20"' https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghcup/0.1.16.2/aarch64-apple-darwin-ghcup-0.1.16.2
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18:49:45	<maerwald>	this finishes in 200ms here
18:49:59	<maerwald>	seems like a configuration issue
18:50:12	<maerwald>	both should be cached
18:54:29	<[exa]>	strace says the difference is really just in waiting for the replies from the server, guess there's something ugly in the headers
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18:59:44	<maerwald>	[exa]: odd
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19:00:38	<[exa]>	maerwald: curl uses http/2
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19:04:12	<[exa]>	hm got it, for me it's gnutls vs openssl
19:04:21	<[exa]>	gnutls's got a bit more aggressive crypto in place by default
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19:05:11	<[exa]>	timing of `gnutls-cli` vs `openssl s_client` is consistent with what you see there
19:05:41	<[exa]>	roughly the 800 vs 600 ms
19:06:11	<maerwald>	hm, I should try curl linked against polarssl
19:06:44	<[exa]>	there's also gnutls curl somewhere
19:06:47	<[exa]>	at least debian has some
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19:19:41	<carter>	i've been having fun figuruing out what monad transformer helpers are best for writing a snazzy interpreter / compiler lately
19:23:34	<[exa]>	"snazzy"? :D
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19:25:28	<[exa]>	(I learned a new word)
19:27:53	<maerwald>	carter: MonadChronicle?
19:28:08	<carter>	maerwald: ooo, that sounds fun
19:28:10	<[exa]>	maerwald: I can't dig what's openssl using for KEX but not expecting problems there; changing gnutls ciphersuites didn't help much. I guess it's dark magicks
19:28:20	<carter>	maerwald: what would that do
19:28:23	<carter>	[exa]: glad i could help
19:28:27	<carter>	not a native speaker?
19:28:27	<maerwald>	carter: express warnings and failure
19:28:44	<maerwald>	it's like These
19:28:55	<maerwald>	would probably be fun if you make it an open sum type, heh
19:29:10	<carter>	oh that looks fun
19:29:27	<carter>	thats probably the right thing for type checking a sect of SCC's
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19:30:16	<maerwald>	I think I'm a believer of cabal-docspec now
19:30:53	<carter>	oh
19:31:53	<maerwald>	no need to have a doctest target
19:31:55	<carter>	is that in cabal 3.6 yet?
19:31:58	<maerwald>	no
19:32:05	<maerwald>	one of phadejs hidden projects
19:32:14	<carter>	https://github.com/phadej/cabal-extras/tree/master/cabal-docspec this one?
19:32:21	<maerwald>	ya
19:32:42	<maerwald>	I can run it without a doctest target, without a Main, just over my codebase
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19:33:14	<maerwald>	it just needs the project to be built before, probably needs plan.json etc
19:33:42	<maerwald>	but can change comments without recompiling and it will still pick them up
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19:35:25	<carter>	oh thats nice
19:35:35	<carter>	how do you script it in?
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19:36:12	<carter>	hrmm
19:36:15	<maerwald>	carter: https://github.com/hasufell/shortbytestring/blob/219b6f0f48bb29ec20015a36db5ad97eab072e64/.github/workflows/haskell.yml#L53
19:36:18	<carter>	would be nice if it was cabal-ized
19:36:41	<carter>	oh nice
19:37:16	<maerwald>	carter: I whined about it here https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/2327
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19:59:29	<maerwald>	,
19:59:36	<tomsmeding>	!
20:03:08	<maerwald>	`traverseFold f = foldl (\mb a -> (<>) <$> mb <*> f a) (pure mempty)` -- I don't remember why I wrote this function
20:03:11	<maerwald>	and it's confusing
20:03:31	<maerwald>	try `traverseFold (:[]) ["1","2","3","4","5"]` vs `traverseFold (:[","]) ["1","2","3","4","5"]` lol
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20:11:21	<maerwald>	don't use list monad :p
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20:18:53	<fresheyeball>	can I set cpp-options in hie.yaml?
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20:21:27	<maerwald>	fresheyeball: why?
20:21:39	<fresheyeball>	well I set it in the cabal file
20:21:43	<fresheyeball>	and everything compiles fine
20:21:56	<fresheyeball>	but hls is acting like those options are not set for the target
20:22:10	<maerwald>	cabal.project?
20:22:21	<fresheyeball>	I don't have one of those
20:22:28	<maerwald>	create one
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20:23:32	<fresheyeball>	ok done
20:23:39	<fresheyeball>	I enumerate my three exes
20:23:42	<fresheyeball>	and set tests: True
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20:24:17	<fresheyeball>	now hls just crashes
20:24:27	<tommd>	I've been wanting to get into haskell.nix for a while now (for build time improvements on large projects) but quickly run into issues such as `error: attribute 'cabal-to-nix' missing, at ...`. How should I learn up on Nix?
20:24:48	<tommd>	That is, nix + Haskell to be quite clear. Less learning nix and more applying to improve my Haskell experience.
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20:25:27	<fresheyeball>	maerwald: actually what would it even be in my case? I just have 1 cabal file
20:25:45	<maerwald>	fresheyeball: package foo\n\tghc-options: -optPFOO
20:25:48	<maerwald>	or sth?
20:25:53	<maerwald>	you also need `packages: ./`
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20:26:45	<fresheyeball>	ok so now cabal is not building it
20:26:53	<fresheyeball>	now cabal is not seeing that I set this in the cabal file
20:26:57	<fresheyeball>	it was before cabal.project
20:27:00	<fresheyeball>	I am confused
20:27:04	<maerwald>	too vague, links
20:29:14	<geekosaur>	-optP-DFOO perhaps? although I thinkk ghc itself accepts -DFOO
20:29:59	<maerwald>	yeah
20:30:16	<maerwald>	https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/phases.html#ghc-flag--D%E2%9F%A8symbol%E2%9F%A9[=%E2%9F%A8value%E2%9F%A9]
20:31:32	<fresheyeball>	ok so sorta a red hering
20:31:44	<fresheyeball>	the cabal.project file actually has no effect on hls
20:31:57	<fresheyeball>	I figured out what was wrong with cabal, I just didn't import something
20:32:16	<fresheyeball>	but still hls is not picking up that I have cpp-options set in the cabal file
20:32:43	<fresheyeball>	http://ix.io/3wLR
20:32:46	<fresheyeball>	here is the cabal file
20:33:39	<fresheyeball>	here is the hie.yml http://ix.io/3wLT
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20:34:03	<fresheyeball>	cabal.project http://ix.io/3wLS
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20:44:36	<maerwald>	try to set it in cabal.project
20:46:33	<fresheyeball>	maerwald: how?
20:46:40	<fresheyeball>	https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/latest/cabal-projectindex.html#cap-cabal.project%20fields
20:46:45	<fresheyeball>	I don't see it as an option
20:47:04	<maerwald>	fresheyeball: we described it earlier
20:47:28	<maerwald>	https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.4/cabal-project.html?highlight=ghc-options#package-configuration-options
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20:49:23	<hseg>	hi. have a type (of multisets) that can be given a Num instance, except that (*) requirs some constraints on tyvars. which forces me to constrain the entire instance. which locks me out of using linear operations on the type at types failing the constraint. advice?
20:49:57	<hseg>	(in particular, need (*) :: Monoid a => MSet a -> MSet a -> MSet a, but would like (+) :: MSet a -> MSet a -> MSet a)
20:50:20	<glguy>	You can use a different class/operator for the unconstrained + operation
20:50:46	<fresheyeball>	yay!
20:50:48	<fresheyeball>	that worked
20:51:17	<hseg>	yeah, but that's ugly and duplicates names
20:51:29	<fresheyeball>	http://ix.io/3wLY
20:51:31	<fresheyeball>	this did the trick
20:51:36	<fresheyeball>	now hls is working for test suites
20:51:43	<fresheyeball>	maerwald:++
20:52:19	<glguy>	hseg: perhaps, but you can't have different constraints for the different methods of Num, so you'll need a solution that isn't Num for that
20:52:29	<hseg>	shame
20:52:56	<hseg>	current solution is to just fmap (fromJust . getFirst) . ... . fmap (First . Just)
20:53:41	<hseg>	which is annoying, and since my underlying implementation uses Data.Map, cannot be turned into coercions
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20:56:16	<hseg>	not to mention that this doesn't generalize well -- if I need to tag all the parameters to a function, lift a retagging, etc I need a new combinator
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20:56:38	<hseg>	unlike coerce, which I can fit to the usecase with judicious tyapps
20:58:47	<dminuoso>	hseg: By the way, did you make any progress with your tyfam errors last night?
20:59:56	<hseg>	y, reported, mpickering suggested it might be due to ANN interacting with binding groups https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/20265
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21:03:29	<hseg>	hm. could live with the retagging if I could write sth like retag @(MSet :.: MSet) @MSet :: (forall f. Monoid (f l) => MSet (MSet (f k)) -> MSet (f l)) -> MSet (MSet k) -> MSet l
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21:05:27	<hseg>	... iow, want retag @f1 @f2 @f3 ... :: (forall f. Monoid (f r) => f1 (f x1) -> f2 (f x2) -> ... -> fn (f r)) -> f1 x1 -> f2 x2 -> ... fn r
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21:06:08	<hseg>	... which might be doable with a combination of the van laarhoven trick, the printf trick, and a fundep
21:06:17	<dminuoso>	Interesting
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21:09:54	<hseg>	... actually printf=van laarhoven here
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21:23:58	<Guest86>	is this the correct place to get support for haskell vscode extension?
21:25:04	<batch12>	How do I put a constraint on a type-level list?
21:25:04	<batch12>	I have: class Thing a
21:25:04	<batch12>	and a GADT: data Carrier (is :: [i])
21:25:04	<batch12>	I know I can say: data Carrier (is :: [Nat])
21:25:07	<batch12>	But I want to say that any i that is allowed to be in that type-level list, must have a Thing instance.
21:25:11	<batch12>	Something like: data Carrier (is :: [forall i => Thing i])
21:25:14	<batch12>	Any idea about how to do this?
21:26:19	<dminuoso>	batch12: newtype it
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21:26:36	<dminuoso>	Or use a GADT
21:27:06	<dminuoso>	% data IsShow where Show a => a -> IsShow
21:27:06	<yahb>	dminuoso: ; <interactive>:15:24: error: parse error on input `a'
21:27:13	<dminuoso>	% data IsShow where MkShow :: Show a => a -> IsShow
21:27:14	<yahb>	dminuoso:
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21:28:53	<batch12>	So I can do that, and that's what I would do at the value level. But why do I need to do that here? It's already a list of types holding any type of kind * (so a heterogeneous list)
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21:29:44	<batch12>	It feels like an existential type is solving an entirely different problem
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21:32:39	<dminuoso>	mmm
21:33:02	<dminuoso>	% type T = '[Show i => i]
21:33:02	<yahb>	dminuoso: ; <interactive>:17:17: error: Not in scope: type variable `i'; <interactive>:17:22: error: Not in scope: type variable `i'
21:33:06	<dminuoso>	% type T = '[forall i. Show i => i]
21:33:07	<yahb>	dminuoso: ; <interactive>:18:1: error:; * Illegal polymorphic type: forall i. Show i => i; GHC doesn't yet support impredicative polymorphism; * In the type synonym declaration for `T'
21:33:16	<dminuoso>	batch12: ^- here. impredicativity is the issue
21:33:41	<dminuoso>	being in a type list doesnt help, as under the hood its all TypeInType
21:33:54	<hseg>	btw, ghci has stopped listing loaded modules recently. anyone know what's up with that?
21:34:43	<dminuoso>	hseg: http://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/9.0.1-notes.html#ghci
21:34:56	<sm>	a long awaited ux fix
21:35:29	<tomsmeding>	hseg: :set prompt "%s> "
21:35:45	<dminuoso>	batch12: With quick look (9.2?), you should be able to use that in the future.
21:35:52	<dminuoso>	batch12: and mind you, an existential is just an encoding of the same fact.
21:35:54	<hseg>	ok, fair, has annoyed me in the past
21:36:11	<hseg>	but is there a way to list all loaded modules, then?
21:37:17	<dminuoso>	% :show imports -- hseg
21:37:18	<yahb>	dminuoso: syntax: :show [args \| prog \| editor \| stop \| imports \| modules \| bindings \| linker \| breaks \| context \| packages \| paths \| language \| targets]
21:37:20	<dminuoso>	% :show imports
21:37:21	<yahb>	dminuoso: import Control.Applicative; import Control.Arrow; import Control.Concurrent; import Control.Concurrent.Chan; import Control.Concurrent.MVar; import Control.Concurrent.STM; import Control.Concurrent.STM.TChan; import Control.Concurrent.STM.TVar; import Control.Comonad.Store; import Control.Exception; import Control.Exception.Lens; import Control.Monad; import Control.Monad.Cont; import Control.Monad.Except; impo
21:37:32	<hseg>	awesome, thanks
21:37:44	<dminuoso>	hseg: Try using the GHC manual more! It's superb :)
21:37:57	<dminuoso>	One of the few manuals that are really well maintained
21:38:03	<batch12>	@dminuoso Thanks. Yeah, the variant with the constraint there leads to impredicative types. But this problem doesn't have anything to do with impredicativity. Given that you can write '[Nat] there, which is a kind of constraint already, I don't see why having a type class constraint would be any different?
21:38:03	<lambdabot>	Unknown command, try @list
21:38:12	<hseg>	usually do! didn't find this one though
21:38:28	<dminuoso>	batch12: The problem has nothing to do with the constraint, it has to do with the quantification.
21:38:37	<dminuoso>	Consider:
21:38:43	<dminuoso>	[forall a. a]
21:38:43	<batch12>	dminuoso: but the quantification always exists even with [Nat]
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21:38:53	<dminuoso>	No, Nat is not quantified.
21:39:18	<batch12>	data Carrier (is :: [Nat]); is allowing for a type list that contains any type of kind Nat
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21:39:37	<dminuoso>	batch12: The key thing here is that given `type T = [forall a. a]`, with impredicativity you are allowed to instantiate `a` at T.
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21:40:13	<dminuoso>	batch12: but with `data All where All :: a -> All`, [All] no longer has that self referential property
21:40:41	<batch12>	That's at the type level, but this is a kind annotation instead
21:40:55	<dminuoso>	With TypeInType there's no difference
21:41:03	<dminuoso>	We no longer have kinds
21:41:34	<dminuoso>	23:39:18 batch12 \| data Carrier (is :: [Nat]); is allowing for a type list that contains any type of kind Nat
21:41:41	<dminuoso>	Yes, there is still no quantification on Nat.
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21:42:56	<dminuoso>	batch12: TypeInType is on the brink of deprecation I think, because under the hood its been TypeInType for a few years even!
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21:43:16	<batch12>	Right, it's deprecated for PolyKinds already
21:43:39	<batch12>	But I don't see why quantification is needed here at all. There should be some other approach that avoids this issue
21:43:45	<dminuoso>	you want a constraint
21:43:57	<dminuoso>	Which type variable do you want a constraint on?
21:44:13	<dminuoso>	Or do you want a nullary constraint like
21:44:17	<elf_fortrez>	Turkey?
21:45:04	<batch12>	dminuoso: The answer is probably to write a type family that takes the list and provides a Constraint which enforces that they're all members of this type class
21:45:15	<dminuoso>	batch12: Ohh hold on I think I misunderstood what you're trying to do.
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21:45:56	<dminuoso>	batch12: Wouldn't that be a lifted GADT?
21:46:07	<dminuoso>	Not sure whether that is even a thing
21:46:26	<dminuoso>	% :set -XDataKinds
21:46:26	<yahb>	dminuoso:
21:46:29	<dminuoso>	% :set -XGADTs
21:46:29	<yahb>	dminuoso:
21:46:45	<elf_fortrez>	kind is child in germa
21:46:56	<elf_fortrez>	German
21:46:57	<dminuoso>	% data F where MkF :: Num a => a -> F
21:46:57	<yahb>	dminuoso:
21:47:07	<elf_fortrez>	Therefore Kinder
21:47:11	<dminuoso>	% :k F
21:47:11	<yahb>	dminuoso: *
21:47:17	<dminuoso>	% :k MkF
21:47:17	<yahb>	dminuoso: ; <interactive>:1:1: error:; * Data constructor `MkF' cannot be used here (it has an unpromotable context `Num a'); * In the type `MkF'
21:49:22	<monochrom>	I feel left out that all #haskell questions are now type-level programming questions.
21:49:45	<dminuoso>	% data G = forall a. Num a => MkG
21:49:45	<yahb>	dminuoso: ; <interactive>:14:10: error:; * Could not deduce (Num a0); from the context: Num a; bound by the type of the constructor `MkG':; forall a. Num a => G; at <interactive>:14:10-31; The type variable `a0' is ambiguous; * In the ambiguity check for `MkG'; To defer the ambiguity check to use sites, enable AllowAmbiguousTypes; In the definition of
21:49:50	<monochrom>	(To clarify, I haven't studied or practiced that.)
21:49:56	<dminuoso>	Uh what?
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21:50:03	<dminuoso>	% :q
21:50:03	<yahb>	dminuoso:
21:50:05	<dminuoso>	% data G = forall a. Num a => MkG
21:50:06	<yahb>	dminuoso: ; <interactive>:1:10: error:; * Could not deduce (Num a0); from the context: Num a; bound by the type of the constructor `MkG':; forall a. Num a => G; at <interactive>:1:10-31; The type variable `a0' is ambiguous; * In the ambiguity check for `MkG'; To defer the ambiguity check to use sites, enable AllowAmbiguousTypes; In the definition of d
21:50:34	<dminuoso>	Oh
21:50:36	<dminuoso>	% data G = forall a. Num a => MkG a
21:50:37	<yahb>	dminuoso:
21:50:40	<dminuoso>	% :k MkG
21:50:40	<yahb>	dminuoso: ; <interactive>:1:1: error:; * Data constructor `MkG' cannot be used here (it has an unpromotable context `Num a'); * In the type `MkG'
21:50:54	<dminuoso>	% class Foo (i :: k)
21:50:54	<yahb>	dminuoso:
21:50:58	<dminuoso>	% data G = forall a. Foo a => MkG a
21:50:59	<yahb>	dminuoso:
21:51:01	<dminuoso>	% :k MkG
21:51:02	<yahb>	dminuoso: ; <interactive>:1:1: error:; * Data constructor `MkG' cannot be used here (it has an unpromotable context `Foo a'); * In the type `MkG'
21:51:06	<monochrom>	Or I should be happy that the reason there are no more value-level programming questions is because everyone is already an expert in Haskell value-level programming. :)
21:51:20	<dminuoso>	batch12: No idea. But you'd need this.
21:51:37	<dminuoso>	batch12: Or, you can just wait for quick look in GHC 9.2, flip on impredicativity and enjoy the rest.
21:51:52	<hseg>	monochrom: what kind of questions are you missing?
21:52:06	<monochrom>	Value-level programming questions.
21:52:32	<monochrom>	"How do I traverse a list at the value level only?"
21:52:56	<dminuoso>	https://aphyr.com/posts/342-typing-the-technical-interview
21:53:04	<dminuoso>	monochrom: You knew this was coming, didn't you?
21:53:05	<hseg>	oh that's a classic
21:54:52	<monochrom>	I enjoyed that one as a joke. Didn't think of it as prophecy though. Well, I guess I didn't have foresight.
21:55:48	<monochrom>	But yeah some of that could be improved by type families today.
21:56:41	<monochrom>	On second thought, I didn't study type-level programming, I don't actually know whether type families would help that one.
21:58:23	<monochrom>	And then you can also criticize me for turning down term-level questions when they actually come up, such as yesterday, with "I can't believe that your prof's course material didn't show examples".
22:00:18	<dminuoso>	Or "I can't believe that your prof's course material didn't start off with type families"
22:00:26	<dminuoso>	That's where your job is headed.
22:00:46	<dminuoso>	Soon we will abolish code generation in GHC.
22:01:29	<batch12>	dminuoso: This does the job:
22:01:29	<batch12>	type family IsShow (a :: [*]) :: Constraint where
22:01:29	<batch12>	IsShow '[] = ()
22:01:29	<batch12>	IsShow (h:t) = (Show h, IsShow t)
22:01:59	×	eggplantade quits (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:71e9:72b:1860:cb0f) (Remote host closed the connection)
22:02:28	<dminuoso>	% type family IsShow (a :: [*]) :: Constraint where IsShow '[] = (); IsShow (h:t) = (Show h, IsShow t)
22:02:28	<yahb>	dminuoso:
22:03:01	<dminuoso>	And how do you intend to use this?
22:04:58	<batch12>	I'm maintaining a stack of operations that are attached to some values
22:05:43	<batch12>	(the actual class is not show..)
22:05:57	<batch12>	Thanks for the help!
22:08:18	<fresheyeball>	ok I got another quandry
22:08:25	<fresheyeball>	postgresql simple
22:08:35	<fresheyeball>	Incompatible {errSQLType = "record", errSQLTableOid = Nothing, errSQLField = "row", errHaskellType = "Text", errMessage = "types incompatible"}
22:08:44	<fresheyeball>	The column has type text
22:08:49	<fresheyeball>	and the haskell type is Text
22:08:53	<fresheyeball>	I am at a loss
22:09:25	<dminuoso>	fresheyeball: can you show the code?
22:09:55	<hpc>	can the column be null?
22:09:58	<fresheyeball>	dminuoso: http://ix.io/3wMj
22:10:05	<fresheyeball>	no it cannot be null
22:10:27	<fresheyeball>	http://ix.io/3wMk
22:10:31	<fresheyeball>	this is the schema
22:12:06	<dminuoso>	fresheyeball: Is there valid utf8 in there?
22:12:16	→	benin036932 joins (~benin@183.82.178.142)
22:12:41	<dminuoso>	I expect not.
22:13:34	<fresheyeball>	dminuoso: I am not sure, it's being generated by an Arbitrary instance
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22:14:19	<fresheyeball>	ok I hard coded it to "user" and "pass" and the error persists
22:14:23	<fresheyeball>	those are both utf8
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22:17:21	<dminuoso>	errSQLField = "row"
22:17:37	<fresheyeball>	?
22:18:12	<dminuoso>	I find that curious
22:18:19	<dminuoso>	It should mention the column name
22:18:58	<fresheyeball>	It was the parens in the query
22:19:19	<dminuoso>	fresheyeball: Does this trigger on insert or select?
22:19:28	<fresheyeball>	select
22:19:53	<dminuoso>	00:18:58 fresheyeball \| It was the parens in the query
22:19:55	<dminuoso>	Yeah.
22:19:59	<dminuoso>	That explains it.
22:20:30	<dminuoso>	Also why there's no table oid, or SQLType "record"
22:20:47	<fresheyeball>	well onto the next error
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22:21:06	<fresheyeball>	apparently my createUser query doesn't make a user that is fount by my lookupHashByUsername function
22:22:26	<dminuoso>	fresheyeball: the order of columns is swapped around in the insert.
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22:22:35	<fresheyeball>	so
22:22:39	<dminuoso>	or not?
22:22:52	<fresheyeball>	I don't understand why it matters the order
22:22:55	<fresheyeball>	they are named
22:23:20	<dminuoso>	fresheyeball: what does the ToField instance for User look like?
22:23:31	<fresheyeball>	it's derived from a newtype of Text
22:24:13	<dminuoso>	Anyway. Enable debugging in your postgresql server
22:24:20	<dminuoso>	That way you can see what queries your database is actually getting
22:24:25	<dminuoso>	This can be a gods end with postgresql-simple
22:26:27	<fresheyeball>	well I looked in the db
22:26:33	<fresheyeball>	and there is in fact a user there
22:26:35	<fresheyeball>	oh shit
22:26:37	<fresheyeball>	I see
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22:27:23	<aegon>	fresheyeball: does the flow your trying to emulate in haskell work in raw sql?
22:27:31	<fresheyeball>	user_name needs UNIQUE
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22:28:31	<fresheyeball>	ok tests run now atleast
22:28:53	<dminuoso>	fresheyeball: Btw, you might want to use cryptonite rather if security is important to you. :)
22:29:06	<dminuoso>	Argh
22:29:09	<dminuoso>	I meant libsodium,
22:29:11	<fresheyeball>	what is wrong with Data.Password.Argon2
22:29:13	<fresheyeball>	?
22:29:15	<dminuoso>	Im really tired and need to go to bed.
22:29:19	<dminuoso>	No I meant libsodium
22:29:35	<dminuoso>	fresheyeball: libsodium is written by crypto experts with a keen focus on avoiding side channels
22:29:35	<fresheyeball>	well apparently Data.Password cannot handle all strings
22:29:38	<dminuoso>	all these haskell libraries are not.
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22:30:40	<dminuoso>	There's not even published papers on side channels in haskell semantics, the code that GHC produces, the way its optimized works, how this affects cache lines, CPU instructions, and everything
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22:32:24	<fresheyeball>	ok
22:32:28	<fresheyeball>	this is good enough for now
22:32:31	<fresheyeball>	I will look into it
22:32:49	<fresheyeball>	either way, it's actually the user check that is failing now
22:32:58	<fresheyeball>	"L\NUL'\"?Dk"
22:32:59	<fresheyeball>	expected: "L\NUL'\"?Dk"
22:33:01	<fresheyeball>	but got: "L"
22:33:22	<fresheyeball>	utf8 problem?
22:34:19	<dminuoso>	Postgresql does not permit NUL bytes in text
22:34:41	<dminuoso>	It's surprising this gets truncated silently
22:35:54	<fresheyeball>	ok well I seriously doubt that users are going manage to get a NUL byte into a webform
22:37:05	<dminuoso>	And this is how bugs and security issues are born
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22:37:43	<dminuoso>	I seriously doubt someone is named "; DROP ALL TABLES"
22:38:03	<hseg>	(except for bobby tables)
22:38:52	<dminuoso>	fresheyeball: Ignoring these types of bugs can have surprising results
22:39:00	<dminuoso>	Consider the case where a user might call themselves
22:39:04	<dminuoso>	a\BELdmin
22:39:31	<dminuoso>	And suddenly this becomes `admin` after roundtripping say through the database, or some rendering engine
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22:43:03	<fresheyeball>	dminuoso: ouch
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23:34:40	<Cajun>	yeah anything that has to do with user entry should be essentially babied from your code. sanitize it in every possible way
23:35:10	<Cajun>	as much as script injection/ACE is fun to mess with, its not fun when someone messes with it on your platform :P
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All times are in UTC on 2021-08-23.