Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2021-09-03 (liberachat/#haskell)

00:01:24 × ec quits (~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
00:03:52 × MQ-17J quits (~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
00:06:22 → ec joins (~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec)
00:07:03 <sm> tsk hseg we are waiting
00:07:30 <hseg> hey, one corner of the universe at a time!
00:08:30 → MQ-17J joins (~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com)
00:25:08 × ec quits (~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Quit: ec)
00:25:20 × hseg quits (~gesh@IGLD-84-228-238-9.inter.net.il) (Quit: WeeChat 3.2)
00:35:33 × eggplantade quits (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:e4b5:4e5:fb1:9aed) (Remote host closed the connection)
00:37:46 → machinedgod joins (~machinedg@135.23.192.217)
00:39:27 × bitmapper quits (uid464869@id-464869.lymington.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
00:40:03 → hololeap_ joins (~hololeap@user/hololeap)
00:43:49 × lbseale quits (~lbseale@user/ep1ctetus) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:43:58 × retroid_ quits (~retro@5ec19a54.skybroadband.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
00:44:02 × opac quits (~opac@ip-28-56.sn2.clouditalia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
00:49:49 → eggplantade joins (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:e4b5:4e5:fb1:9aed)
00:57:17 × MQ-17J quits (~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
00:57:34 → MQ-17J joins (~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com)
01:13:48 → dextaa5 joins (~DV@user/dextaa)
01:14:37 × dextaa quits (~DV@user/dextaa) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
01:14:37 dextaa5 is now known as dextaa
01:15:24 × pretty_dumm_guy quits (trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655) (Quit: WeeChat 3.2)
01:15:32 → neurocyte2 joins (~neurocyte@94.46.75.10)
01:15:32 × neurocyte2 quits (~neurocyte@94.46.75.10) (Changing host)
01:15:32 → neurocyte2 joins (~neurocyte@user/neurocyte)
01:17:31 × neurocyte quits (~neurocyte@user/neurocyte) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
01:17:31 neurocyte2 is now known as neurocyte
01:18:40 × xsperry quits (~as@user/xsperry) (Remote host closed the connection)
01:22:33 hololeap_ is now known as hololeap
01:22:59 × koz quits (~koz@121.99.240.58) (Remote host closed the connection)
01:24:40 × Maxdamantus quits (~Maxdamant@user/maxdamantus) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
01:25:52 → merijn joins (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
01:26:22 × dsrt^ quits (~dsrt@wsip-98-188-244-188.mc.at.cox.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
01:27:30 → mjs2600 joins (~mjs2600@c-24-91-3-49.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
01:32:26 → koz joins (~koz@2404:4408:430d:7700:a966:62f6:949e:94f7)
01:32:40 × xff0x quits (~xff0x@2001:1a81:5329:9c00:9b27:ac34:a98:1a7c) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
01:33:02 × waleee quits (~waleee@h-98-128-228-119.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
01:34:29 → xff0x joins (~xff0x@2001:1a81:5362:1000:f7a:10f6:c105:a65a)
01:37:02 → retroid_ joins (~retro@176.255.22.194)
01:49:22 → Maxdamantus joins (~Maxdamant@user/maxdamantus)
01:49:57 → hannessteffenhag joins (~hannesste@ip4d14ffee.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
01:54:22 × hannessteffenhag quits (~hannesste@ip4d14ffee.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
01:54:27 × alx741 quits (~alx741@186.178.109.154) (Quit: alx741)
01:54:55 × myShoggoth quits (~myShoggot@97-120-70-214.ptld.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
01:58:32 → lavaman joins (~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
01:59:40 → stites[m] joins (~sammtopoi@2001:470:69fc:105::e887)
01:59:52 × merijn quits (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
02:00:00 × sander quits (~sander@user/sander) (Quit: So long! :))
02:00:19 × pbrisbin quits (~patrick@pool-108-16-214-93.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
02:01:25 → sander joins (~sander@user/sander)
02:02:40 × lavaman quits (~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
02:03:10 × Everything quits (~Everythin@128-124-169-247.mobile.vf-ua.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
02:05:10 × koz quits (~koz@2404:4408:430d:7700:a966:62f6:949e:94f7) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
02:07:03 → koz joins (~koz@2404:4408:430f:a900:ca69:658c:ba89:aa9f)
02:07:34 × justsomeguy quits (~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
02:08:27 → finn_elija joins (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
02:08:27 FinnElija is now known as Guest4486
02:08:27 × Guest4486 quits (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (calcium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services)))
02:08:27 finn_elija is now known as FinnElija
02:18:15 → myShoggoth joins (~myShoggot@97-120-70-214.ptld.qwest.net)
02:18:34 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
02:21:30 × td_ quits (~td@muedsl-82-207-238-003.citykom.de) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
02:22:28 × voldial quits (~user@195.179.201.175) (Changing host)
02:22:28 → voldial joins (~user@user/voldial)
02:23:33 → td_ joins (~td@muedsl-82-207-238-018.citykom.de)
02:24:37 × renzhi quits (~xp@2607:fa49:6500:3d00::d986) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
02:34:42 → wroathe joins (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
02:34:42 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Changing host)
02:34:42 → wroathe joins (~wroathe@user/wroathe)
02:35:10 ← delYsid parts (~user@84-115-55-45.cable.dynamic.surfer.at) (ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.1.50))
02:39:17 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
02:40:00 → Topik[m] joins (~topikmatr@2001:470:69fc:105::a082)
02:49:22 × Maxdamantus quits (~Maxdamant@user/maxdamantus) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
02:51:17 → Maxdamantus joins (~Maxdamant@user/maxdamantus)
02:53:02 × Morrow_ quits (~Morrow@bzq-110-168-31-106.red.bezeqint.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
02:53:23 → Morrow_ joins (~Morrow@bzq-110-168-31-106.red.bezeqint.net)
02:53:46 → wroathe joins (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
02:53:46 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Changing host)
02:53:46 → wroathe joins (~wroathe@user/wroathe)
02:58:10 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
02:59:11 × [itchyjunk] quits (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Remote host closed the connection)
03:01:28 × Neuromancer quits (~Neuromanc@user/neuromancer) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
03:01:56 × neurocyte quits (~neurocyte@user/neurocyte) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
03:02:08 → neurocyte joins (~neurocyte@94.46.75.10)
03:02:08 × neurocyte quits (~neurocyte@94.46.75.10) (Changing host)
03:02:08 → neurocyte joins (~neurocyte@user/neurocyte)
03:02:18 → aerona joins (~aerona@2600:6c54:4600:f300:5098:ea7e:8fa8:e9c)
03:10:04 × otto_s quits (~user@p5de2f28d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
03:12:02 → otto_s joins (~user@p5de2f91c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
03:20:50 × zebrag quits (~chris@user/zebrag) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
03:22:50 → sleblanc joins (~sleblanc@user/sleblanc)
03:26:33 → lavaman joins (~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
03:30:02 → wroathe joins (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
03:30:02 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Changing host)
03:30:02 → wroathe joins (~wroathe@user/wroathe)
03:31:42 × lavaman quits (~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Remote host closed the connection)
03:36:39 × Jonno_FTW quits (~come@api.carswap.me) (Changing host)
03:36:39 → Jonno_FTW joins (~come@user/jonno-ftw/x-0835346)
03:52:57 × zaquest quits (~notzaques@5.128.210.178) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
03:56:29 → merijn joins (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
04:01:48 → zaquest joins (~notzaques@5.128.210.178)
04:02:14 → lavaman joins (~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
04:06:36 × lavaman quits (~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
04:07:28 × sleblanc quits (~sleblanc@user/sleblanc) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
04:11:52 × machinedgod quits (~machinedg@135.23.192.217) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
04:12:43 × kawpuh quits (~kawpuh@71-150-122-133.lightspeed.brhmal.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: Client closed)
04:27:02 → asdofindia-m joins (~akshaymat@2001:470:69fc:105::831)
04:30:40 × merijn quits (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
04:37:06 → lavaman joins (~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
04:41:10 × lavaman quits (~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
04:56:03 × jess quits (~jess@libera/staff/jess) ()
05:01:55 × MQ-17J quits (~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
05:02:59 → MQ-17J joins (~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com)
05:32:40 → hannessteffenhag joins (~hannesste@ip4d14ffee.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
05:33:48 → michalz joins (~michalz@185.246.204.125)
05:34:38 → takuan joins (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
05:36:10 → mei joins (~mei@user/mei)
05:38:17 × hannessteffenhag quits (~hannesste@ip4d14ffee.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
05:44:49 × myShoggoth quits (~myShoggot@97-120-70-214.ptld.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
05:45:35 × Vajb quits (~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3ab-85.dhcp.inet.fi) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
05:46:57 → Vajb joins (~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3ab-85.dhcp.inet.fi)
05:49:49 → Neuromancer joins (~Neuromanc@user/neuromancer)
05:58:18 → slavaqq joins (~slavaqq@sdmail.sdserver.cz)
06:00:46 × jespada quits (~jespada@90.254.245.194) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
06:05:37 → jespada joins (~jespada@90.254.245.194)
06:06:52 lep is now known as lep-
06:15:35 ← jakalx parts (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
06:21:12 → vysn joins (~vysn@user/vysn)
06:24:01 → agoraphobic joins (~agoraphob@ip11-173.bon.riksnet.se)
06:25:52 → lortabac joins (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:5028:d3a0:f64f:ec15)
06:27:08 → merijn joins (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
06:36:04 × aegon quits (~mike@174.127.249.180) (Quit: leaving)
06:40:31 → jakalx joins (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
06:40:35 → Akronymus joins (~Akronymus@85.31.8.180)
06:40:56 → dhouthoo joins (~dhouthoo@178-117-36-167.access.telenet.be)
06:48:37 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
06:49:44 → kenran joins (~kenran@b2b-37-24-119-190.unitymedia.biz)
06:51:40 → hannessteffenhag joins (~hannesste@ip4d14ffee.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
06:53:05 × aerona quits (~aerona@2600:6c54:4600:f300:5098:ea7e:8fa8:e9c) (Quit: Leaving)
06:59:52 × slowButPresent quits (~slowButPr@user/slowbutpresent) (Quit: leaving)
07:01:16 × merijn quits (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
07:05:32 → wroathe joins (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
07:05:32 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Changing host)
07:05:32 → wroathe joins (~wroathe@user/wroathe)
07:10:19 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
07:10:25 → max22- joins (~maxime@2a01cb0883359800f71e865f3b8a9569.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr)
07:12:05 × me_ quits (~me@178.70.139.179) (Quit: Leaving)
07:13:43 → Gurkenglas joins (~Gurkengla@dslb-088-075-022-191.088.075.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
07:15:24 → cfricke joins (~cfricke@user/cfricke)
07:18:03 → me_ joins (~me@178.70.139.179)
07:18:35 × MQ-17J quits (~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
07:18:53 → MQ-17J joins (~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com)
07:19:34 → vpan joins (~vilius@212.117.1.172)
07:22:00 → kuribas joins (~user@ptr-25vy0i9db35irr18tb3.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
07:23:14 × MQ-17J quits (~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
07:23:14 → dsp joins (~dsp@cpc152107-haye27-2-0-cust227.17-4.cable.virginm.net)
07:23:31 → MQ-17J joins (~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com)
07:25:24 × dsp quits (~dsp@cpc152107-haye27-2-0-cust227.17-4.cable.virginm.net) (Client Quit)
07:26:07 → dsp joins (~dsp@cpc152107-haye27-2-0-cust227.17-4.cable.virginm.net)
07:26:22 → acidjnk_new joins (~acidjnk@p200300d0c720308244f5798d54dcee82.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
07:30:23 × eggplantade quits (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:e4b5:4e5:fb1:9aed) (Remote host closed the connection)
07:31:34 → lavaman joins (~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
07:33:43 × MQ-17J quits (~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
07:35:55 × lavaman quits (~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
07:35:57 → MQ-17J joins (~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com)
07:43:41 → waleee joins (~waleee@2001:9b0:216:8200:d457:9189:7843:1dbd)
07:45:10 × johnw quits (~johnw@2600:1700:cf00:db0:ddb1:e5fb:471:495e) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
07:46:50 × tzh quits (~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz)
07:53:40 → gehmehgeh joins (~user@user/gehmehgeh)
07:55:07 × MQ-17J quits (~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
07:55:25 → MQ-17J joins (~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com)
07:56:19 → jneira joins (~jneira@212.8.115.226)
07:57:43 → Guest10 joins (~Guest10@93-172-153-232.bb.netvision.net.il)
07:57:58 → aman joins (~aman@user/aman)
07:59:40 × MQ-17J quits (~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
07:59:48 × jneira quits (~jneira@212.8.115.226) (Client Quit)
08:00:01 → jneira joins (~jneira@212.8.115.226)
08:00:36 → merijn joins (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
08:02:14 JavierNeira[m] is now known as jneira[m]
08:02:24 → Boomerang joins (~Boomerang@xd520f68c.cust.hiper.dk)
08:03:49 → MQ-17J joins (~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com)
08:04:12 → hendursa1 joins (~weechat@user/hendursaga)
08:04:16 → johnw joins (~johnw@2600:1700:cf00:db0:5468:db28:5c48:90a6)
08:05:22 × jneira quits (~jneira@212.8.115.226) (Quit: Client closed)
08:06:57 × hendursaga quits (~weechat@user/hendursaga) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
08:07:28 × aplainzetakind quits (~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) (Quit: Free ZNC ~ Powered by LunarBNC: https://LunarBNC.net)
08:07:37 → aplainzetakind joins (~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net)
08:07:39 × Sgeo quits (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
08:10:46 × Feuermagier quits (~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier) (Remote host closed the connection)
08:10:59 → Feuermagier joins (~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier)
08:13:53 → nschoe joins (~quassel@178.251.84.79)
08:14:36 × waleee quits (~waleee@2001:9b0:216:8200:d457:9189:7843:1dbd) (Quit: WeeChat 3.2)
08:17:29 × bontaq quits (~user@ool-45779fe5.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
08:19:38 × bakinonion[m] quits (~bakinonio@2001:470:69fc:105::ddb3) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
08:19:38 × masaeedu[m] quits (~masaeedum@2001:470:69fc:105::e256) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
08:19:38 × maralorn quits (~maralorn@2001:470:69fc:105::251) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
08:19:42 × reza[m] quits (~rezaphone@2001:470:69fc:105::3eda) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
08:19:42 × bb010g quits (~bb010g@2001:470:69fc:105::9a5) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
08:19:42 × Drew[m] quits (~drewefenw@2001:470:69fc:105::c8c4) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
08:19:42 × vaibhavsagar[m] quits (~vaibhavsa@2001:470:69fc:105::ffe) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
08:19:42 × boxscape quits (~boxscape@user/boxscape) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
08:19:54 × rosariopulella[m quits (~rosariopu@2001:470:69fc:105::a57) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
08:19:54 × aveltras[m] quits (~aveltrasm@2001:470:69fc:105::3ef9) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
08:19:54 × adziahel[m] quits (~adziahelm@2001:470:69fc:105::b4d) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
08:19:54 × wallymathieu[m] quits (~wallymath@2001:470:69fc:105::16ae) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
08:19:54 × infinisil quits (~infinisil@2001:470:69fc:105::ff8) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
08:19:54 × Magnus[m] quits (~magthetch@2001:470:69fc:105::d1a7) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
08:19:54 × OndejSkup[m] quits (~mimivxmat@2001:470:69fc:105::c300) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
08:19:54 × jakefromstatefar quits (~jakefroms@2001:470:69fc:105::15ef) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
08:19:59 × jkachmar quits (~jkachmar@2001:470:69fc:105::c72d) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
08:19:59 × denbrahe[m] quits (~denbrahem@2001:470:69fc:105::19c0) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
08:19:59 × psydroid quits (~psydroid@user/psydroid) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
08:20:04 × oak- quits (~oakuniver@2001:470:69fc:105::fcd) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
08:20:04 × jesser[m] quits (~jessermat@2001:470:69fc:105::d5ae) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
08:20:37 × shriekingnoise quits (~shrieking@186.137.144.80) (Quit: Quit)
08:21:13 → bakinonion[m] joins (~bakinonio@2001:470:69fc:105::ddb3)
08:21:23 → maralorn joins (~maralorn@2001:470:69fc:105::251)
08:21:28 → masaeedu[m] joins (~masaeedum@2001:470:69fc:105::e256)
08:22:10 × Erutuon quits (~Erutuon@user/erutuon) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
08:22:37 × kar1 quits (~kar1@2001:470:69fc:105::c308) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
08:22:37 × jaror[m] quits (~jaror@2001:470:69fc:105::265) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
08:22:40 × commuswift[m] quits (~commuswif@2001:470:69fc:105::e862) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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11:11:24 <kuribas> Wouldn't it be possible to define monadTransformers based on lift?
11:12:00 <kuribas> For example, a statemonad would just do the state functions, then lift up the parent stacks?
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11:13:19 <kuribas> wouldn't that solve the quadratic instances problem?
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11:27:55 <lortabac> kuribas: you can avoid the quadratic instances by using overlappable instances
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11:28:11 <lortabac> I have seen various packages using this technique
11:29:06 <lortabac> kuribas: see for example the MonadMetrics instances here: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/monad-metrics-0.2.2.0/docs/Control-Monad-Metrics.html
11:29:57 <kuribas> ah it uses lift, that is what I mean...
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12:18:43 <jumper149> Hi, I was wondering, if it's possible to set `default-extensions` for all targets in a cabal file (I have split up library, executable and test).
12:19:12 <jumper149> Same goes for other options like `default-language`
12:19:29 <tomsmeding> jumper149: check out https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.4/cabal-package.html#common-stanzas
12:24:25 <jumper149> tomsmeding: Perfect, ty :)
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12:37:05 <jumper149> Is there something like: `Enum a => Proxy (x :: a) -> a`
12:38:03 <jumper149> It should function similar to natVal.
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13:01:59 <ski> jumper149 : which value in `a' do you expect as result ? the least one ? the greatest one ? some other ?
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13:03:45 <ski> for `natVal :: KnownNat n => Proxy n -> Integer', the constraint `KnownNat n' carries information about a particular natural. the `Enum a' constraint does not carry such information, it just tells you how to enumerate ranges, given bounds (and possibly step), and how to convert to and from `Int'
13:04:10 <ski> @src Enum
13:04:10 <lambdabot> class Enum a where
13:04:10 <lambdabot> succ, pred :: a -> a
13:04:10 <lambdabot> toEnum :: Int -> a
13:04:10 <lambdabot> fromEnum :: a -> Int
13:04:12 <lambdabot> enumFrom :: a -> [a]
13:04:14 <lambdabot> enumFromThen, enumFromTo :: a -> a -> [a]
13:04:16 <lambdabot> enumFromThenTo :: a -> a -> a -> [a]
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13:04:49 <ski> if you want least or greatest, try `Bounded a'. otherwise, i dunno what you're looking for
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13:05:53 <ski> (well, not exactly step but the next value in the enumeration sequence ..)
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13:09:53 <jumper149> ski: Well, ignore the `Enum`. I just want something that works for basic Enumeration types like `data X = A | B | C`
13:10:31 <jumper149> I can certainly write a type class like `KnownX` where I set it manually.
13:10:45 <jumper149> But it would be nice if there was some automiatic mechanism for this.
13:11:04 <ski> perhaps you could try converting the `Integer' result from `natVal', using `toEnum' (with a "to `Int'" conversion inbetween)
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13:12:22 <ski> perhaps you could declare a `KnownEnum' class for this
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13:14:35 <jumper149> ski: Exactly. I was hoping this exists already x)
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13:14:57 <int-e> type family FromEnum (x :: a) :: Nat
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13:16:04 <ski> and `ToEnum' ?
13:16:07 <int-e> hmm, and type KnownEnum x = KnownNat (FromEnum x)
13:16:56 <int-e> Anyway, the point here is that you'd need Enum-like machinery on the type level, and none of that currently exists.
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13:18:14 <int-e> ski: Maybe, but it's not needed for KnownEnum x => Prxoy (x :: a) -> a
13:18:45 <lortabac> there is probably something in singletons-base
13:18:49 <int-e> Or rather, (KnownEnum x, Enum a) => Prxoy (x :: a) -> a
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13:19:27 <int-e> Oh I should've added "in base"
13:19:39 <jumper149> Do type level Fins exist yet?
13:19:53 <ski> i was thinking of operations `enumVal :: (Enum a,KnownEnum a e) => proxy e -> a' and `someEnumVal :: Enum a => a -> Maybe (SomeEnum a)', where `SomeEnum a' encodes `exists e. KnownEnum a e *> ()', iow `data SomeEnum a = forall e. KnownEnum a e => MkSomeEnum'
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13:21:32 <lortabac> jumper149: I got stuck on this same problem in one of my projects
13:21:42 <lortabac> I haven't found any satisfactory solutions yet
13:21:58 <ski> er, need some additional constraint on `a', for `someEnumVal', i think
13:22:11 ski ponders
13:23:25 <ski> (oh, btw, if you prefer, you could replace `()' by `Proxy e', iow instead of `MkSomeEnum', we say `MkSomeEnum (Proxy e)')
13:25:42 <ski> hm, i guess we probably don't need an additional constraint on `a'. being able to embed `a' in `Integer' should suffice
13:25:42 <lortabac> basically I want to allow users of my library to do dependent pattern-matching on a finite subset of the natural numbers
13:26:35 <ski> (iow, you shouldn't need to declare the `Enum' types that you want to use with `enumVal' and `someEnumVal' as instances of some type class. it should suffice that they're already instances of `Enum')
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13:32:11 <lortabac> maybe one can avoid a dependency on singletons with some TemplateHaskell
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13:34:44 <lortabac> some TH magic that generates the moral equivalent of FromEnum
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13:48:07 <hololeap> so, I'm making a Semigroup instance for my sum type with three constructors... 3^2 = 9 different declarations needed. is there any way to ease this and/or automate it?
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13:51:30 <hololeap> the type closely resembles These: data MinMax = MyMin Min | MyMax Max | MyMinMax Min Max
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13:53:05 <hololeap> and then you have the various declarations: MyMin n1 <> MyMin n2 = MyMin (n1 <> n2) ; MyMin n <> MyMax x = MyMinMax n x ; MyMin n1 <> MyMinMax n2 x = MyMinMax (n1 <> n2) x
13:53:58 <hololeap> so, everything sort of "gravitates" towards MyMinMax... I'm not sure if this makes it a "monotonic type" or whatever it's called
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13:54:44 <hololeap> *"gravitates" towards the _constructor_ MyMinMax
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13:57:56 <jippiedoe> jumper149: It sounds a lot like something Singletons could do, but I don't have experience with the actual library to tell you how :)
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13:59:12 <jumper149> hololeap: If it's a common pattern `DerivingVia` can be useful.
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14:02:33 <hololeap> jumper149: yeah, although I'm not sure what pattern this would be. it definitely looks like it would be a common pattern
14:02:44 <hololeap> sadly there is no semigroup instance for These
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14:05:12 <jumper149> Does this work? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/these
14:05:19 <jumper149> Didn't check the instance though
14:05:46 <jumper149> oh... I just see
14:05:54 <jumper149> You already know about it x)
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14:15:49 <kuribas> hololeap: toMinMax MyMin n = MyMinMax n mempty, etc...
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14:16:45 <hololeap> kuribas: there is no Monoid instance for Min or Max :p
14:16:52 <kuribas> oh...
14:16:56 <hololeap> yeah
14:17:07 <kuribas> hololeap: 9 isn't so bad though...
14:17:19 <hololeap> fair enough... xp
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14:18:01 <ski> > case someNatVal 3 of Nothing -> 42; Just (SomeNat p) -> natVal p
14:18:02 <lambdabot> 3
14:18:06 <ski> > case someNatVal (-1) of Nothing -> 42; Just (SomeNat p) -> natVal p
14:18:08 <lambdabot> 42
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14:18:21 <ski> @let newtype EnumType a = ET Nat
14:18:22 <lambdabot> Defined.
14:18:34 <ski> @let class Enum a => KnownEnum a e where enumVal :: proxy e -> a
14:18:36 <lambdabot> Defined.
14:18:50 <ski> @let instance (Enum a,KnownNat n) => KnownEnum a (ET n :: EnumType a) where enumVal (pn :: proxy (ET n)) = toEnum (fromIntegral (natVal (Proxy :: Proxy n) + fromIntegral (minBound :: Int)))
14:18:51 <lambdabot> Defined.
14:18:59 <ski> @let data SomeEnum a = forall e. KnownEnum a e => WrapEnum (Proxy e)
14:19:01 <lambdabot> Defined.
14:19:11 <ski> @let someEnumVal :: forall a. Enum a => a -> SomeEnum a; someEnumVal x = case someNatVal (fromIntegral (fromEnum x) - fromIntegral (minBound :: Int)) of Just (SomeNat (Proxy :: Proxy n)) -> WrapEnum (Proxy :: Proxy (ET n :: EnumType a))
14:19:12 <lambdabot> Defined.
14:19:21 <ski> @let data X = A | B | C deriving (Show,Enum)
14:19:23 <lambdabot> Defined.
14:19:29 <ski> > case someEnumVal B of WrapEnum pe -> enumVal pe :: X
14:19:30 <lambdabot> B
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14:19:41 <kuribas> hololeap: convert to (Maybe a, Maybe b)?
14:19:51 <ski> jumper149,lortabac,int-e ^
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14:20:41 <int-e> ski: uh, can you put that into a pastebin
14:20:52 <ski> (don't export `EnumType',`ET'. if you want to, also don't export `enumVal', *as* a member of `KnownNat'. (it should still be exported as a function))
14:20:53 <hololeap> kuribas: I thought of this, but it doesn't preclude (Nothing, Nothing), which isn't a possibility, so I would have to have have: (Nothing, Nothing) -> error "Can't happen"
14:21:15 <kuribas> hololeap: well, if it can't happen, it can't happen :)
14:22:03 <hololeap> It ends up being more than 9 lines of code anyway with that approach, so whatever... I'll just stick to enumerating them by hand
14:22:19 <kuribas> hololeap: it's less error prone...
14:22:43 <kuribas> but yeah, not that big of a deal..
14:23:20 <hololeap> hm, no I think that with the "Pattern match(es) are non-exhaustive" warning and the type system doing its thing, there isn't actually any room for error here, but IDK
14:24:49 <kuribas> well: MinMax n1 m <> Min n2 = MinMax n1 m
14:25:39 <hololeap> oh, that is true
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14:27:19 <int-e> :t someNatVal
14:27:20 <lambdabot> Integer -> Maybe SomeNat
14:27:39 <hololeap> http://sprunge.us/MgQpvG (just for reference)
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14:28:15 <int-e> damn, where is that from...
14:28:56 <hololeap> ?
14:28:58 <int-e> GHC.TypeLits, not GHC.TypeNats. Meh.
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14:29:33 <lortabac> it's in both
14:29:53 <int-e> :t GHC.TypeNats.someNatVal
14:29:54 <lambdabot> GHC.Natural.Natural -> SomeNat
14:30:02 <int-e> lortabac: not really
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14:31:28 <lortabac> it's confusing, the one in GHC.TypeLits accepts Integers
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14:31:41 <lortabac> they should have used a different name
14:31:46 <int-e> lortabac: yes, hence my annoyance
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14:35:53 <int-e> ski: that's kind of cheating though, isn't it?
14:37:47 <int-e> ski: see the `test'` attempt in https://paste.tomsmeding.com/3WleQYYc ...I thought something like that was what jumper149 wanted.
14:38:40 <int-e> And that's what made me reach for additional type families.
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14:46:31 <ski> int-e : <https://paste.tomsmeding.com/VOHU1gWT>
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14:49:15 <int-e> ski: thanks... though I was too impatient
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14:51:13 <ski> int-e, ah, yes, that would require some way of lifting the type `a' (where `Enum a') into a kind, so that `a's values would correspond to types of that kind, and then you would want to pass those types to `Proxy', passing that to some other version of `enumVal'
14:52:32 <int-e> it would need some serious support to make convenient... probably a bit of Template Haskell to fill in the type family values.
14:52:38 <int-e> (hah, family values...)
14:52:42 <ski> it wasn't clear to me whether jumper149 wanted something like this, or only the more basic, "abstract", functionality, being able to use `someEnumVal', and then back through `enumVal'. (rather, i only considered the latter functionality)
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14:53:16 <int-e> ski: I agree that it's unclear. Maybe reflection support (which is what you have) is enough.
14:53:35 <int-e> (pet peeve: reify/reflect are named the wrong way)
14:54:29 <ski> (hm, i suppose that's true. hadn't noticed that before)
14:54:56 <int-e> (also completely tangential and not really important. But to my mind, values are more concrete than types. So types should be the reflections of values, not vice versa, but the literature thinks otherwise.)
14:56:09 <ski> (can you give an example of how/where the literature thinks otherwise ? (not particularly looking for a specific source, but rather in which sense the literature thinks values are reflections of types, in this context))
14:56:16 <hololeap> oh, there actually _is_ a semigroup instance for These that mirrors what I was trying to do... nice. I was looking at These1 for some reason
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14:57:30 <int-e> ski: Hrm, I ought to be able to find papers on this if pressed, but maybe this is sufficient evidence? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/reflection-2.1.6/docs/Data-Reflection.html#v:reflect
14:59:11 <jumper149> Like int-e was guessing correctly I wanted something I can easily use with Proxy. I'm not too sure, why it doesnt work though.
14:59:26 <ski> hm, ok. i was thinking perhaps there was some kind of rationale or analogy that you knew off-hand, that could explain why the present use of `reify' vs. `reflect' was chosen
14:59:55 <ski> (i already quickly looked up those operations, to confirm your observation)
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15:01:16 <ski> hm, perhaps one reason might be that, a use of that `reflect' typically occurs (dynamically) inside a use of `reify', which i guess is also the pattern with say monadic reflection (how about other cases of reification/reflection ?)
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15:01:51 <ski> jumper149 : see my paste above, and see if that suffices for what you want to do ?
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15:02:14 <ski> (also see my example with lambdabot, using your `data X = A | B | C', further up)
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15:02:49 <ski> ("something I can easily use with Proxy" is unclear to me)
15:03:01 <c_wraith> So... Do pi types totally subsume reify/reflect?
15:03:32 <EvanR> is this similar to the difference between type classes and just records of functions
15:03:55 <EvanR> accomplish the same goal but with different flavor and feel
15:04:09 <int-e> ski: I know of no source that dives into etymology.
15:04:21 ski nods
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15:05:16 <int-e> ski: My own speculation is that it's derived from Java's use of reflection... but in Java, you actually get a weird *description* of types (as values)... whereas we tend to produce values. So... the roles get flipped.
15:05:21 <c_wraith> Or even.. not "totally", but "at all"?
15:05:48 <int-e> (I expect this predates Java, but I don't know where it came from. Does SmallTalk have reflection?)
15:07:01 <ski> hm, iirc, in SmallTalk, classes are objects. to instantiate a new object of a class, you send it the `new' message, or somesuch
15:07:18 <ski> (although classes are not identical with types ..)
15:07:23 <c_wraith> Like, I have this silly monoid, https://paste.tomsmeding.com/AYZgs8hO , and I'm wondering if anyone knows if pi types in dependent haskell might replace the use of reflection in it
15:11:54 <dolio> I think I agree that they're backwards. The value is the 'real' thing, and the type is its reflection. But it's already named backwards in the paper cited as original.
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15:12:21 <dolio> It must be because it's an academic paper, so they think types are more real than values.
15:12:56 <ski> "they're backwards" -- who/where ? `Data.Reflection' ? Java reflection ?
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15:13:25 <dolio> They're backwards in Data.Reflection, because in that case you are reflecting values in the type system.
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15:13:49 <dolio> They're named correctly in Java because there you're reflecting types as values you can access.
15:14:52 <ski> in monadic reflection, you're reifying implicit side-effects (of a particular kind, introduced originally via explicitly defining a monad) into a monadic action, explicitly expressing the effects. and reflection does the opposite, reflects the description of the effects in the action, into actual side-effects
15:15:01 <dolio> Even though the same words might be used for the same direction (type->value vs. value->type) in both cases.
15:15:31 <ski> (i got that in mind, since i recently revisited Filinski's papers on monadic reflection)
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15:16:23 <ski> anyway, i agree with your "I think I agree that ..."
15:19:08 <ski> c_wraith : fun example. i wonder if it could be extended to handle parsing ..
15:20:16 <EvanR> at compile time, the types are real and values not xD
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15:21:07 <EvanR> in an advanced type system, you never get around to actually running the completed program
15:21:10 <ski> EvanR : hmm .. i'm not sure, but i think the "only one instance of a type for a type class" thing isn't really an issue, in the comparision between the type class based reflection, and pi types
15:21:31 <EvanR> it's not?
15:21:56 <EvanR> because you can make many instances dynamically?
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15:22:48 <ski> you don't have multiple distinct instances of `KnownNat n' being threaded around. if it's the same `n', then the instances encode the same `Integer'. if you want a different (non-negative) `Integer', then you get `KnownNat n1' for `n1' distinct from `n'
15:23:09 <jumper149> http://ix.io/3xQ9
15:23:35 <jumper149> ski: I can' get around defining those instances manually with your module I guess.
15:24:48 <jumper149> can't
15:25:17 <EvanR> interesting
15:25:42 <ski> jumper149 : so you do want to be able to say KnownNat X 'A and not just be able to pass `A' to `someEnumVal' (converting `A' to a constraint that is propagated around implicitly), and later pass a proxy enabling a handle on that constraint back to `enumVal', recovering `A' ?
15:26:44 <EvanR> similar to a category whose arrows from A to B represent a relation holding between A and B. Regardless of the number of arrows, the same relation holds
15:26:47 <ski> jumper149 : with my module, you'd simply not declare those instances at all. you'd only need `Enum X', and then you're set to go
15:27:32 <EvanR> can *that* sort of thing be expressed with pi types...
15:27:34 <ski> (but that only enables you to do what i just sketched above. it does not enable you to say something like KnownNat X 'A .. which is what int-e was going for)
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15:29:23 <ski> EvanR : hm, can you elaborate on where the multiplicity of arrows (/instances ?) vs. singularity of them matters here ?
15:30:00 <jumper149> ski: I think that is correct. I do kinda have trouble to wrap my head around, what your module _can_ do.
15:30:26 <ski> > case someEnumVal B of WrapEnum pe -> enumVal pe :: X
15:30:28 <lambdabot> B
15:30:33 <EvanR> can you set up a pi type which represents something like, if you can implement this pi type at all, that is the interesting bit
15:31:12 <EvanR> a possble type vs impossible type
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15:31:55 <EvanR> i know sigma can do this
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15:32:54 <ski> you can pass a value of your type `X' to `someEnumVal'. you'll get back a constraint `KnownEnum X x' (packaged inside `WrapEnum'), for an unknown type variable `x' (which represents the value of type `X' you passed to `someEnumVal'). now you can let this `KnownEnum X x' constraint be propagated implicitly to other operations you call, until you want to "grab the `X' value associated with `x' out of thin air"
15:33:00 <ski> again, by passing a proxy for `x' to `enumVal'
15:33:03 <ski> jumper149 ^
15:33:37 <int-e> jumper149, ski: What I had in mind was this https://paste.tomsmeding.com/fx6ODlf4 (it doesn't cover the reflection use case)
15:34:34 <int-e> ...not sure why I defined enumVal after X...
15:37:08 <int-e> But yes, it does suffer from having to define a type instance for every constructor of interest. Oh and there's nothing that ensures consistency of FromEnum and fromEnum.
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15:38:30 <ski> EvanR : how can sigma do this (whatever "this" is. answering might help me understand what your desired "this" is about) ?
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15:39:03 <EvanR> sigma x . x < 0 sort of type
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15:39:14 <EvanR> no examples
15:39:19 <ski> for `x' a natural ?
15:39:22 <EvanR> yeah
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15:39:37 <ski> so an uninhabitated type
15:39:53 <jumper149> ski: Ok, I get it now. As long as I'm behind the case `WrapEnum pe ->` I can get `pe` from type level to value level.
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15:40:42 <ski> `pi x :: t. u[x]' is only uninhabited, in case `t' isn't (there is some `v' in it), while `u[v]' is uninhabited
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15:41:05 <ski> (i'm still unsure if this is what you're asking about)
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15:41:28 <EvanR> doh ... right. It's been a while
15:41:46 <jumper149> int-e: Your example is closer to what I had in mind too.
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15:42:04 <ski> jumper149 : yes. also, if you call some other operations from "behind the case", then that operation can also get back the value in `X' from `KnownEnum X x', as long as that operation has such a constraint
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15:43:39 <ski> (iow, you don't have to put the `enumVal' call syntactically inside the `case' branch. it can be inside the definition of some operation called (perhaps indirectly, in multiple steps) from that branch)
15:44:17 <jumper149> ski: Ok thank you! That really cleared it up for me.
15:45:18 <ski> so, it seems that the only thing my version doesn't give you, out of what's been discussed, is to be able to say things like KnownEnum X 'A or enumVal (Proxy :: Proxy 'A)
15:47:26 <ski> iow, you can't explicitly write your `X' values in the types. but you still can convert a value of type `X' into a corresponding type variable `x' (using `someEnumVal'), together with constraint `KnownEnum X x', and then later, possibly elsewhere (as long as the constraint is propagated there) get back the original value of type `X' (by using `enumVal' on a `Proxy x')
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16:48:27 <aegon> i'm confused by the interweb reports. seems most places claim that when transporting ascii over the network you don't have to worry about big vs little endian because its a 1 byte encoding but wouldn't it still matter for each bit or are the bits allways in the same arrangement
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16:51:57 <aegon> nvm did more looking
16:52:52 <int-e> You don't have to worry. People working on the physical level (network adapters) do the worrying for you...
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16:54:53 <maerwald> just keep those bytes coming
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17:38:06 <aegon> oh, cool to now that is a thing just at the network adapter level. I keep running into this same pattern in my code that is awkword to deal with and i'm wondering how to clean it up https://paste.tomsmeding.com/L2F0BKBk
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17:41:53 <maerwald> aegon: MaybeT
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17:47:35 <aegon> maerwald: so add something like MonadFail to the outer monad, but the failure only makes sense in these little blocks, application wide failure on the outer monad would be a bug. should i be doing a runMaybeT for each of these blocks?
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17:48:11 <maerwald> no, you use `MaybeT m a` and then have one runMaybeT before the do
17:48:27 <awpr> I've got some newly-uploaded packages on Hackage failing CI on GHC versions they don't intend to support (missing extensions, etc.) -- what's the recommended way to exclude them? tweaking the base dependency to indirectly require a new enough compiler? some Cabal config that constrains the GHC version?
17:48:53 <aegon> i see, oo, is maybeT a MonadFail instance? that would be pretty slick
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17:49:08 <aegon> oh it is
17:49:10 <aegon> :D
17:49:15 <maerwald> aegon: it might not do what you think it does
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17:50:04 <aegon> maerwald: i think it allows me to write my failure code in terms of monadFail then decide between either / maybe / whatever at the call site. I might be wrong on that though, I havent used anything around MonadFail yet
17:50:20 <maerwald> `fail _ = MaybeT (return Nothing)`
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17:51:12 <aegon> yeah but if then if i wanted the string value i could use EitherT right?
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17:52:51 <maerwald> MonadFail for ExceptT runs the fail for the inner monad I think
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17:53:10 <maerwald> so if you have `ExceptT e IO a` fail will raise an IO exception
17:54:06 <aegon> darn, that isn't what i expected :X
17:54:39 <maerwald> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/hr1X1HN0
17:54:46 <maerwald> yeah, so MonadFail isn't a great API
17:54:56 <maerwald> it's useful for "dunno what to do"
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17:56:46 <monochrom> You should not trust your guess of what "fail" in "Monadfail" means.
17:57:58 <monochrom> The correct meaning is that if you have a refutable pattern in do-notation, "x:xs <- getLine", then the MonadFail method is used for pattern mismatch.
17:58:04 <maerwald> transformers often have non-intuitive API
17:59:32 <monochrom> Very quickly you realize that different instances should handle it differently, hell oppositely.
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18:01:24 <maerwald> MonadThrow also propagates to the inner monad very often
18:01:29 <monochrom> The other thing you realize is that "fail" does not mean some kind of user-defined notion of "failure".
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18:03:35 <aegon> wierd, that makes sense though. I need to get a better feel for exception handling, from my experience with it so far my feelings are that I never want code to throw exceptions, only thing i've worked with that excepts (outside of IO errors) is httpclient
18:04:04 <aegon> but maybe ErrorT is what i want if I wnat to use either in a transformer stack that will short circuit on Left's
18:04:13 <monochrom> Writers who limit themselves to "simple English" most-popular 5000-word vocab meet readers who are in a delusion that such bland words mean anything at all.
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18:07:37 <maerwald> I don't think it's easy to get a *feel* for exception handling
18:07:46 <maerwald> but you can develop a strong paranoia
18:08:03 <sclv> awpr: yeah you want to set base constraints to exclude ghcs you don't want. https://wiki.haskell.org/Base_package
18:08:07 <maerwald> that guides you through your memories of past horrors
18:09:28 <awpr> sclv: that seems a bit less than satisfying since base isn't properly what provides the functionality it depends on, but indeed it ought to work. if there's not a "more correct" way, I'll go with that.
18:09:50 <awpr> sclv: thanks for confirming that's a common way to approach it
18:09:50 <sclv> its the standard way
18:09:57 <maerwald> aegon: https://www.fpcomplete.com/haskell/tutorial/exceptions/
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18:10:43 <awpr> re exceptions, reading Michael Snoyman's writings on exceptions over the past few years is a great way to cultivate the appropriate level of abject horror
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18:12:02 <awpr> IIRC a recent-ish article concluded that it's actually impossible to be async-exception-safe in certain important contexts, or something similarly concerning
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18:14:42 <sclv> i disagree with all that
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18:14:50 <sclv> async exceptions are fine when used for the purpose designed
18:15:13 <sclv> i don't know why everybody gets mad at the
18:15:14 <sclv> them
18:17:14 <maerwald> Snoymans arguments against `ExceptT e IO` are confusing at best. And MonadThrow isn't that great either
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18:22:11 <maerwald> I'm still a `Excepts` user... not a firm believer, but in lack of better alternatives
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18:22:32 <aegon> maerwald: bookmarked'd for the weekend
18:23:05 <awpr> my recollection of the details is pretty fuzzy, and I can't seem to find the article. it might have been a much more limited scope, like some particular issue in safe-exceptions or unliftio that can't be solved properly. I do agree async-exception safety seems to be okay in my own experience if you stick to bracket/finally/etc. or think _really_ hard about the masking situation
18:23:20 <alzgh> hello, I sent a question in #haskell-beginners a few hours ago. If anyone can help, really appreciate it. Thanks.
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18:25:11 <maerwald> awpr: yeah, there was a debate about safe-exceptions and not everyone agrees
18:25:36 <maerwald> it boils down to "what happens if your handler has a bug" afair
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18:33:23 <alzgh> 'm trying to set the prompt in stack ghci. I added 'set prompt "λ> "' (also with a colon at the beginning) to both ~/.ghci and ~/ghc/.ghci and none worked for me. I also started stack ghci from both folders and it didn't have any effect. Looking online I alsofound references to yaml file and was not sure if they are
18:33:25 <alzgh> for packaging only or have effects on the REPL too.
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18:39:46 <alzgh> sorry, I have to leave. Would've waited for an answer but can only connect through a vpn and need to disconnect it rn.
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18:51:48 <maerwald> I want an infix operator to combine `ToString a => a -> a -> a`, I'm too uncreative to come up with one, most <x> are already taken
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18:58:12 <maerwald> `(<#>) :: (ToString s1, ToString s2) => s1 -> s2 -> String` looks ok
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19:14:01 <tomsmeding> s/ToString/IsString/?
19:14:06 <maerwald> no
19:15:05 <tomsmeding> oh some show-but-different class? then your a -> a -> a is not going to work :p
19:15:38 <maerwald> see above
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19:16:41 <nfd> your second signature looks fine
19:17:34 <nfd> your example one probably made at least a third of us go "...that clearly wasn't what you menat"
19:17:52 <maerwald> pseudo code
19:18:05 <maerwald> guys, we're moving fast here :D
19:18:36 <tomsmeding> feels like a very specific operator that isn't very reusable, though, to me
19:18:39 <int-e> let's reinvent Text.Pretty for the 101st time
19:18:48 <tomsmeding> unless ToString String is id
19:19:10 <maerwald> this isn't about pretty
19:19:14 <maerwald> it is id
19:19:30 <int-e> actually my first thought here was that you'd probably want (<#>) :: ... -> Endo String
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19:19:34 <tomsmeding> right, then it works well
19:19:50 <maerwald> I'm also not asking about the function itself or the class, just operator "name"
19:19:57 <tomsmeding> <++>
19:20:05 <tomsmeding> ++++++
19:20:17 <maerwald> quite javascript-esque, that might work
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19:20:24 <tomsmeding> "kind of ++"
19:20:30 <int-e> tomsmeding: https://wiki.haskell.org/Obfuscation
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19:21:04 <tomsmeding> :p
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19:21:09 <int-e> (sure, it uses ???, but +++ would do the trick too)
19:21:46 <maerwald> also, this conflicts really badly with OverloadedStrings :p
19:24:22 <tomsmeding> > let (?) = (+) ; (???) = (*) ; (??) = 6 in (??)???(??)?(??)
19:24:24 <lambdabot> 42
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19:25:20 <tomsmeding> too heavy use of () in that haskell wiki code
19:25:26 <tomsmeding> too few infix operators
19:27:23 <maerwald> so I also need `(<.#>) :: ToString s => String -> s -> String` and `(<#.>)` to get around the ambiguity errors
19:27:26 <monochrom> sclv: I don't get mad at async exceptions! I think Haskell, or GHC, or whatever Simon Marlow did, has made async exceptions good.
19:27:52 <maerwald> and all this just so I can avoid T.pack
19:28:31 <tomsmeding> perhaps haskell needs to steal c++'s thing where you can define string literal suffixes
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19:28:47 <tomsmeding> where "abc" :: char* but "abc"s :: std::string
19:28:54 <monochrom> Async exceptions in C would be too much trouble for the effort, sure. But Haskell doesn't have C's problems.
19:29:05 <tomsmeding> banish OverloadedStrings
19:30:44 <nfd> haskell still has a few of C's problems, like "it runs on an actual computer"
19:30:49 <nfd> ;-;
19:31:31 <monochrom> tomsmeding: No no no, C++ should steal Haskell's string literal prefix. pack"abc" >:)
19:31:41 <monochrom> > length"abc"
19:31:42 <lambdabot> 3
19:32:36 <maerwald> I always confine OverloadedStrings to specific modules, but it's still a mess
19:33:51 <maerwald> tomsmeding: "abc" for IsStrinng, "abc"s for String, "abc"t for Text etc?
19:34:03 <tomsmeding> yes
19:34:34 <tomsmeding> (""tom) :: String -> TomString ; (""tom) a = TomString a -- then use "abc"tom
19:34:43 <maerwald> that won't be fun to make parse, but yeah
19:34:49 <tomsmeding> okay that definition syntax might be crappy
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19:35:32 <tomsmeding> not sure it'll be that bad to parse; the lexer will just have to pick it up
19:35:44 <tomsmeding> larger problem is that now spacing matters even _more_
19:36:09 <maerwald> It would be an extension, so it's fine
19:36:10 <monochrom> This is why my prefix idea is better. It already works today. Here and now.
19:36:12 <tomsmeding> c.f. negative literals
19:36:37 <monochrom> And it is not so hard to alias t = T.pack
19:36:52 <maerwald> uh
19:36:54 <tomsmeding> only issue being that now 't' is defined
19:36:59 <maerwald> that's gonna give a lot of scoping warnings
19:37:11 <monochrom> But to be honest I would prefer text = T.pack
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19:37:40 <monochrom> Because to be honest in C++ I would prefer "abc"string not "abc"s.
19:37:58 <monochrom> or at least "abc"str
19:38:18 <maerwald> so the real answer is quasi quotes again
19:38:21 <maerwald> but they're more typing
19:38:32 <monochrom> Right? This "abc"s feature brough to you by people who say that single-letter names are bad.
19:38:49 <tomsmeding> and if you allow more typing, you might as well `pack "kaas"` as monochrom suggests :p
19:38:54 <maerwald> so we just need shorter syntax for quasi quotes
19:39:29 <maerwald> [s|abc|] and [t|abc|] are annoying
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19:40:18 <monochrom> Just define a control-meta-shift-[ macro to enter [|] for you.
19:40:53 <maerwald> I'm already suffering from joint inflammation, if I do emacs stuff now it's gonna get worse :D
19:41:10 <monochrom> In fact I set a ctrl-x " macro to enter “” for me.
19:41:21 <maerwald> wait, there's a snippet plugin that works with auto completer
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19:41:34 <maerwald> e.g. you type `s` and it would suggest the macro
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19:42:00 <monochrom> Ah yeah snippets work too. I used to set up xml snippets in gedit.
19:42:36 <maerwald> https://github.com/Shougo/deoppet.nvim
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19:43:41 <monochrom> I have another great idea.
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19:43:58 <monochrom> Dedicate a module to all string literals.
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19:44:24 <tomsmeding> I'm writing haskell, not assembly
19:44:32 <monochrom> It can have OverloadedStrings safely because it has nothing but string literals that need implicit T.pack (for example).
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19:44:53 <monochrom> The other benefit is that it is easy to internationalize.
19:45:20 <maerwald> str1, str2, str3, ...
19:45:25 <monochrom> Write an alternative for the Chinese language, use backpack and mixin etc to select Chinese or English. >:)
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19:46:35 <tomsmeding> so need to recompile to select a different language?
19:46:43 <maerwald> I think I'm just gonna kill OverloadedStrings
19:48:34 <monochrom> xmonad users are already fine with recompiling to, say, just change one keybinding. So yeah. >:)
19:48:57 tomsmeding thought xmonad could load a new xmonad.hs at runtime
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19:49:32 <monochrom> Too bad Hugs doesn't do backpack mixins. I would really love to say, "if you use Hugs, you don't need to recompile".
19:50:22 <geekosaur> tomsmeding, we recompile and re-exec the config
19:51:00 <monochrom> Oh hey geekosaur, not sure if I should raise this... printf %d for double??!!!
19:51:14 <geekosaur> whoops
19:51:23 <monochrom> hahaha OK no further question!
19:51:24 <geekosaur> I was not fully awake I guess
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19:52:02 <monochrom> Sorry I was teaching a unix-and-C course this summer, very sensitive to these little things that normally shouldn't matter.
19:52:05 <geekosaur> I had a scratching itch that I was wrong but didn't double check. I usually pay for that
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19:52:26 <geekosaur> been too long since I dealt with printfd
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19:52:47 <geekosaur> (printf should die. in both c and haskell)
19:53:30 <monochrom> But what should replace printf in C? C++'s iostream thingies?
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19:54:52 <monochrom> I'm actually OK with "fprint_int(stdout, i); fprint_str(stdout, " "); fprint_double(stdout, sin(0.0));" if that's what you have in mind.
19:55:47 <dsal> `fprint_double2f_double4f_double2f_double0f_double_int`
19:57:34 <monochrom> My pet peeve with C printf (and Pascall writeln) is that it is inextensible. I cannot declare "%b now means the struct type I have defined".
19:58:16 <dsal> I was writing some purescript a couple days ago using a generated API for Google stuff which included a function named `sendEmailWithStringStringStringObjectBlobsourcearrayStringStringStringObjectStringBooleanString` -- I immediately imposed an 80 column limit on my project.
19:58:17 <monochrom> whereas the fprint_footype convention is trivially extensible. And C++ iostream is also designed to be extensible and syntactically nice.
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19:58:37 <dsal> Go sort of has extensibility with %v and then %#v or %+v (I get those two confused)
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19:59:21 <monochrom> Ugh I have talked about Haskell too much. I now type Pascal as Pascall.
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19:59:55 <dsal> Do you also pronounce it Paskell?
20:00:05 <tomsmeding> dsal: probably came from a language with keyword arguments
20:00:07 <monochrom> At the beginning I did!
20:00:18 <dsal> tomsmeding: It didn't. :( It's a JS API.
20:00:21 <monochrom> Err no, I misunderstood.
20:00:27 <dsal> Pronunciation is deprecated, anyway.
20:00:43 <monochrom> At the beginning I pronounced Haskell as Hascal.
20:01:16 <dsal> I'm pretty sure I pronounced Pascal Paskell, so we've got good coverage.
20:01:31 <monochrom> :)
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20:24:22 <maerwald> [t||] is already taken?
20:24:46 <geekosaur> type quasiquoter iirc
20:25:06 <maerwald> I can't find what imports it
20:26:16 <maerwald> `t` is a great search term
20:26:50 <tomsmeding> not in scope in my plain ghci shell
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20:29:09 <geekosaur> hm, maybe not. I thought there were 4 predefined quasiquoters but the docs only mention [q||]
20:29:31 <maerwald> well, I get "Actual type: Language.Haskell.TH.Lib.Internal.TypeQ"
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20:32:12 <tomsmeding> maerwald: it's a predefined TH quote https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/exts/template_haskell.html#extension-TemplateHaskellQuotes
20:32:29 <tomsmeding> % :set -XQuasiQuotes -XTemplateHaskell
20:32:30 <yahb> tomsmeding:
20:32:34 <tomsmeding> % [t|Int|]
20:32:35 <yahb> tomsmeding: ConT GHC.Types.Int
20:32:40 <tomsmeding> you need both extensions to get this
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20:38:19 <maerwald> can't win
20:38:54 <tomsmeding> law of preservation of misery
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21:04:44 <hololeap> I remember there was a data type that was recommended to me that was like Either, but values on the Left would accumulate like Writer. anyone have an idea what it was?
21:05:30 <tomsmeding> Valuation? or the thing written by kuribas a while back
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21:06:31 <monochrom> Validation? These?
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21:06:47 <geekosaur> Chronicle maybe
21:06:50 <geekosaur> ?
21:06:52 tomsmeding meant Validation -- shows that I haven't actually used it
21:07:02 <monochrom> Ah yeah Chronicle too.
21:07:15 <hololeap> Validation looks correct
21:07:21 <hololeap> right, it can't be a Monad
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21:10:00 <hololeap> Chronicle also looks very interesting
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21:26:14 <slack1256> Does anyone know if there is a FP/haskell group that will meet this week on chicago?
21:26:31 <slack1256> There is a "meetup" that looks dead.
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21:38:00 <[exa]> slack1256: any info about the meetup?
21:38:12 <[exa]> you might actually un-dead it by posting it here. :D
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22:13:49 <slack1256> Hahah I don't think so. But that would be convenient.
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22:21:18 <bontaq> hmm I'm running into an error trying to setup side-by-side hspec tests, has anyone seen
22:21:34 <bontaq> /src/Spec.hs:2:8: error:
22:21:34 <bontaq> File name does not match module name:
22:21:34 <bontaq> Saw: ‘Main’
22:21:34 <bontaq> Expected: ‘Spec’
22:21:37 <bontaq> before?
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22:22:47 <maerwald[m]> Yeah
22:23:37 <bontaq> ez fix?
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22:38:26 <dsal> bontaq: Try not having a `module Main where` in the Spec.hs file.
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22:39:04 <geekosaur> they may not have one, absence of a modue declaration implies "module Main where"
22:39:24 <c_wraith> I was going to warn about that.
22:39:43 <dsal> Hmm... I often have Spec.hs with no module definitions.
22:40:17 <dsal> The error says line 2, which suggests it may be explicit.
22:40:21 <c_wraith> you'll only get that error if something is trying to import Spec and ghc finds Spec.hs and assume it's going to have the right module
22:40:43 <dsal> I see. So, more info needed.
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23:01:18 <monochrom> More actual code and actual files are always needed.
23:01:44 <monochrom> verbatim unabridged complete
23:02:46 <hpc> https://img.libquotes.com/pic-quotes/v2/arthur-conan-doyle-quote-lbp9a7g.jpg
23:03:15 <phaazon> sometimes I feel like I would love to have PureScript’s section / lambda shortcut notation in Haskell :)
23:04:00 <monochrom> What does it look like?
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23:08:11 <bontaq> lol dsal
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23:09:11 <bontaq> I think it's my unfamilitary with hpack messing stuff up tbh, I never ran into this before
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23:12:58 <phaazon> monochrom: I have an example, wait
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23:13:22 <phaazon> monochrom: https://twitter.com/phaazon_/status/1431605994463842304
23:13:30 <phaazon> so basicalyl, they use _ as a placeholder for \a
23:13:42 <phaazon> but if you use more _ in an expression, it increments the arity of the function
23:13:49 <phaazon> so _ + _ is basically \a b -> a + b
23:14:05 <phaazon> it unlocks so cool things, like the applicative expression in my tweet
23:14:14 <phaazon> or case _ of, removing the need of Lambdacase
23:14:18 <phaazon> LambdaCase*
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23:15:12 <phaazon> so here basically { location: _, history: _, emptyForeign: _ } is the same as \l h e -> location: l, history: h, emptyForeign: e
23:15:37 <phaazon> it’s pretty fun to map over functors of records, too
23:15:40 <phaazon> map _.theFild
23:15:42 <phaazon> <3
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23:24:10 <hpc> in agda you define operators that way, or even combinations of operators
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23:25:17 <hpc> Σ[_:_]_ for instance
23:25:41 <hpc> and to use it, Σ[ l : Nat ] Vec l Boolean
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23:25:58 <hpc> (plus or minus the actual names for things)
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23:48:00 <iqubic> Is there some clever reason that Data.Tree from containers doesn't have a function "foldTreeM :: Monad m => (a -> [b] -> m b) -> b -> m b"?
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23:49:16 <iqubic> It doesn't seem all that hard to write.
23:51:34 <nfd> iqubic: i was expecting to see a "Tree" somewhere in that signature
23:51:43 <iqubic> Yeah. My bad.
23:52:00 <hololeap_> is there anything for embedding haskell into a text file? I want to have a text template with various placeholders that will be replaced by Text or String values
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23:52:29 <iqubic> "foldTreeM :: Monad m => (a -> [b] -> m b) -> Tree a -> m b" is what I'd like to have.
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23:53:08 <iqubic> Why is that not present in the module?
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23:55:24 <hololeap> iqubic: are you sure that's the type signature you want?
23:55:30 <iqubic> I am sure.
23:55:38 <iqubic> Why do you think I don't actually want that?
23:56:03 <kaol> I'm thinking of that "result of applying f to each subForest" part. If your proposed function's return type is m b then how can you get a list of [b] by applying f to subForests?
23:56:37 <iqubic> kaol: use traverse.
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All times are in UTC on 2021-09-03.